Asmongold Is WRONG About the Future of World of Warcraft
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- Опубликовано: 21 мар 2024
- Overall, I think WOW is in a pretty good state lately. Game has been pretty fun to play and is in more of a seasonal model than it was before. The game has evolved a bit, but that doesn't make it bad
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10 man raids, slight ability pruning, massive defensive pruning. I cannot stand that the only way we can be challenged in content is getting 1 shot.
10 man raids? it always had 10 man raids unless you're talking about it being applied to mythic raids.
what puzzles me when i listen to Asmon is that what he wishes for is for retail wow to be more like classic, but he doesn't even play classic
Not to mention that we literally did this experiment. Classic Era is still live right now. No one plays it. He could go 40 man raid with no addons and one button rotations to his heart's content.
Classic is the sweatiest version of WoW as well. If you're not going 110% in Classic, you'll be ignored and left behind by the people who play it.
Bruh people played vanilla for 3 years. IT doesnt prove anything that people dont want to play the exact same expansion again after just finishing it. The fact that so many people prefered a 20 year old version of the game over retail is very telling@@_d0ser
Neither does the majority of all those people that played and quit wow over the years so clearly making retail into classic isnt whats gonna bring back 12million players either.
sod/classic is suffering with the same social issues with group content.
people demanding parses for 10 man raids 😅asmons's takes might be extreme but the community has also gotten very spicy over the years as well
the real issue are the 10 to 15 man guilds that aotc in two weeks but cant even TRY mythic purely based on numbers
it's just another reason why cata and mop were goated for raid content. 10 man heroic (modern mythic) was the most fun I've had in the game since 2h windfury was a thing
I did mythic raiding in legion and it burned me out so hard that i'll never do it again. You're always stuck in 1 of 2 shitty positions. Either you have too many online and you have to tell someone you're friends wiht that they're missing raid night, or you dont have enough and you have to pug someone meaning you have no chance of progression. Fixed sized raids are the worst.
@@trollnerd Yeah agree but we still have fixed size now. We'd need flex for everything 10-30. Because the reality is Cata did kill a lot of the raiding at the time.
The effect if very clear not sure why Blizz doesn't see it. Your average small heroic guild clears heroic and then stops. And then unsubs until the next patch. If they had the numbers to go into Mythic, they'd go for a few bosses until next patch and not unsub. But here we are. For a decade.
whenever someone rolls out the addons scapegoat and makes the sweeping declaration "No addons whatsoever" I like to point out, some addons aren't for playing the game for me, but rather almost an accessibility purpose: I love playing brewmaster. I also get chronic migraines. The stagger bar and the stagger icon on the default UI IS FUCKING TINY. I use a weakaura to make the stagger icon much larger, so I can read green light, yellow light, red light, easily and without straining my eyes. How is that addon playing the game for me? I also use TMW to track buffs and CDs, that's just showing me information more easily.
The type of WAs you describe are informational which are pretty tame. The problem right now lies in the computational WAs that "play the game" for you. Everyone agrees thta those have gone too far because of the RWF.
They Just need to crack down on those.
@@Fr33mx I 100% agree with that. But I have gotten into arguments (WoW forums, of course) with people who draw the line at NO addons. None. I have presented my own case, and their argument was 'tough cookies, no addons'.
@@Kiwicrack tell them the game's interface lacks on purpose because the addon support was intended from the get go. A lot of good changes to the interface like map quest objective areas, one bag layout etc were originally just popular addons that some People consider essential.
This game was never meant to be played as is. The base interface is very outdated. The fact that your hp, your abilities and your buffs aes in the completely different directions in the corners of your screen tell that older monitors that were 4x3 didnt have that issue ut since today's monitors are way bigger base positions of those part makes no sense. Thats why e eye one clumps everything near the center of their screen.
Is that not indicative of Blizzard's stock UI being dogshit for tracking relevant information?
LIke why do we need to use addons to fix shitty baseline game design? Why is that acceptable, rather than pressuring Blizzard to actually make the game playable at a baseline level?
I play Unholy, I periodically have my relevant must-track debuffs knocked off of default UI nameplates, and am forced to use addons to solve the issue. Treating this type of neglectful design from blizzard as a given and then crutching on addons, instead of treating it as it is, neglectful design that would have been hotfixed by any decent dev team, seems like such a buckbroken WoW monogamer take. You shouldn't need to check one debuff in the corner of your screen to track mitigation in the first place, lets not simp out for the addons that do blizzard's dirty laundry, instead of holding them accountable for fixing their dogshit UI and UX design.
but saying no addons period is not what you are saying and most people, including Asmon the clown himself, says no addons period. Stop shifting an argument bro. Learn to debate and read.@@Fr33mx
"Try to contrive the game into a career" says the guy who made a career off streaming WoW in the first place lol Asmon is just a WoW boomer at this point, everything he says is loaded with cynicism and hard to take seriously
would you not atleast acknowledge that back then it was FAR easier than it is now. Surely you can see where his career started is far different than now. You will see his reasoning on that note.
@miqotesoulia8620 what is far easier now? Streaming? Or wow?
Dragonflight was probably the best game has been since legion.
Asmon describing the game he wants, he can grab 39 yesmen from his stream at any time but committing regular players to a 40 man roster boss would kill the game faster than anything blizzard ever did
worst dungeons ever, worst PVP ever, average raids.... oh, but casuals love flying dragons LMAO
@@fuscazo5399sounds like a you problem
You either didn't play Legion or you are smoking something that i want too.
As someone who adores Legion and all of it,i will probably put Dragonflight even after exp like Bfa and Shadowlands.You have nothing to do daily in the game,you just log in to do your 4 dungeons,do a hc or mythic whatever you raid and alt f4 till next reset,like where is the fun in that ?
One of the things they should bring is that will make you log in daily being that AP grind or whatever,i rly don't care if some sweaty nerd will farm like mad and be 5% stronger than me,at least i can have something to do when i have any free time.
@@fuscazo5399 you sound like a person that lived in wow for the past 20 years, has no friends, is probably ungly, most likely virgin and has all of his live achievements in this game. touch some grass, man... its a video game.
@@bobi9765i mean i love legion did all mythic raids and mage tower for every spec and i still think it was hard carried by it’s later patches and fixes to make ap grind only give fractional percent of power and legendary acquisition determined you raid spot in EN/NH. But dflight is bad because you dont need have enough chores to endlessly grind every day? Nah id rather just log in and do m+ ✌️
Every twitch streamer is stuck in an echo chamber of their own bull shit.
i agree nothing is more triggering than high end players or streamer talking about what the game need as if they know about the average gamer
Including the one that made this video. Right?
completely false. Generalizations is how children make sense of the world. Are you a child?
@@aroix2667what? Asmongold isn’t even close to the high end player. He’s by definition: a casual and the average player that plays this game.
@@Nyeusilegit he has hasnt mythic raided since 2017.
10 man Mytic... i keep dreaming it will happen
same
This!
This would add so much content to the game for me and my guild, we have had 10-12 regulars for the past 4 years, aotc is too easy most of the time but I just want to do mythic stuff with my friends
Got a small discord for m+ content, we could probably extend into 10man raiding easily, could not be bothered by 20
15 is an ideal middle ground imo, just big enough to have lots of class diversity but also cover basically everything you need. Either way 20 has to go, it's killing so many guilds every tier needing a roster of like 25+ people for months at a time
My s/o, who doesn't even play WoW, listened to that 45 sec Asmon clip and went: "That sounds like 'old man yells at cloud.'"
Why people always think that
A new player can't catch up or they dont like the current game? I started in legion only and only play the game for M+. I know many people started in Df too
I started in BFA, & I never felt like it was too hard or too complicated. Because there’s SO MUCH easy content to do before you even know what “mythic raiding” even means. These guys who’ve played for decades are just out of touch. They don’t have any idea what it’s like to actually be a new player to the game.
facts@@Gaius_Sinstone
Asmongold is nuts if he thinks 40 man raiding is going to save Wow.
Mythic *struggles* to assemble 20 players with the legacy lockout and current nature of difficulty tuning. You'd have to have a bench roster to cover for any life emergenies or other circumstances; how much fun is it to sit there and only be brought in when something goes wrong?
people just realizing asmon just gets carried
The issue with asmon not playing the game is that when you do not interact with something for along time you become out of touch with what people actually want. And that is exactly what Asmong has done. He says mythic raiding is too hard but he has not mythic raided since idk what legion? Sure the last 2 bosses are hard but the first 7 are a joke
i wanna know who the muted accounts are tettles spill it
My issue is Asmon’s suggestions are not only out of touch with the reality for the WoW community, but also out of touch with his prior statements. He has said the game is too easy, and he has said it is too complicated. He just says these things to get views and provide content to his channel.
I agree about lessening addon influence and condensing skills for all classes if those skills essentially do the same thing IE I don't need a slam and a raging blow as a fury warrior. Far as raids well I think it should be normal and heroic with hard modes only.
Great video, my one disagreement is raid difficulty. I think 3 is enough, LFR/normal can be combined and be the queu content. heroic can be for guilds or good pugs later on, and mythic for the top 100-200 guilds or whatever
There is some button bloat for a few specs, but they seem to be working around and addressing that throughout Dragonflight. Raid sizes and difficulty are fine. Only thing I agree with is the addon issue.
I think when Asmon was talking about collapsing difficulties he was referring to how raid size and difficulty used to be tied together. Now they've mostly decoupled size and difficulty, but I wouldn't mind seeing that style of difficulty scaling come back.
Imagine if they left LFR and Normal as Flex with enemy health/damage scaling with player count between 10 and 40, but then they had Heroic 10 for people looking to take on a bit more challenge with additional boss mechanics etc. Then Heroic 20 can be essentially a half step up from 10, where maybe the fights are tuned a bit higher but the main challenge is managing 20 players instead of 10. Mythic 10 could be another half step up in difficulty where they can add Mythic only boss mechanics but still balance it for 10 players and have it be slightly easier than the current Mythic raids. Last but not least would be Mythic 20, which could be left basically the same as it is now.
I think this would be the best way to accommodate as many skill levels and group sizes as possible without anyone feeling like they aren't challenged enough, and can't be challenged more without doubling the size of their raid team. In this hypothetical system, you could reasonably go from mastering Heroic 10 to progressing Mythic 10, and just skip over Heroic 20 altogether if it doesn't suit your group size.
It might be tricky to pull off, but I feel like they already did something pretty similar back in Wrath and it seemed to work fine imo.
I am not sure what WoW needs, but you couldn't pay me to farm CE again with how it is now. Relying of 19 other people to be online ontime, have no irl issues come up and perform at a clearable level was too much for me. I only raided 1 tier with a US 300ish guild, and when we finally cleared (sire denathrius) it was super good feeling. But looking back that was not worth the effort. Imagining 39 other people is actual insanity to me and if the raids were easier I wouldn't bother to begin with. It for sure needs something tho.
I agree with the cutting down on button bloat take but maybe not to that extent
Being able to make my UI mine is a huge thing
New players don’t need addons to play, that comes with experience. You can do a 20 without addons and still time it tbh.
Some addons are useful, like plater for the aggro, something that helps me a lot tanking packs of 10 mobs 😅
I shouldn't need to download luxthos for every class to be able to play. Far too many procs & buffs & intermediate cooldown abilities to track, and now every class is going to get another layer of this bs w/ the hero talents. Either level up the UI to track this stuff, or simplify the classes.
The upgrade system has reduced the gear delta between mythic raiders and everyone else, but there's still so much item level bloat that it makes anything in the open world obsolete by the end of the first tier (unless they keep moving the goalposts every patch).
10man mythic raiding would be awesome, I remember 10man doing HM and that was 6 of my friends and 4 recruits. easier to fill. I think ability bloat is too much. Like brm monk has to press a lot of buttons to do less dmg than a vdh who drops sigils and spam spirit bomb. Its night and day. I think maybe having 6-8 rotational buttons would be perfect with like 2-3 offesnsive CDs and also 2-3 defensive CDs and like 1-2 mobility. Class buffs should just be a passive. And addons like you said are too far in to remove it completely. A lot of people customize UIs that way and to their liking/preference but the WA requirements for raids is a lot to manage. Like i would enjoy FFXIV more if there was a M+ option as i get bored of raiding in both MMOs. My fave raiding is probably Lost ark but i hate the gearing in LA so its a lot of good and bads. Again these are my preference.
The only thing I kinda agree is the addon thing... I play with Details only and I don't like antyhing that make the game easier. I'm currently doing +26 on ele sham.
Hoping to see a video about rare's team +33 clutch ad and +33 brh!
Pruning I don’t think has ever gone over well. BFA, was memed as “battle for abilities” wod was worse.
I do think simplifying some of the high difficulty content would be good, like reducing the amount of mob abilities in dungeons, making kicks easier to do (maybe by making interrupt cds more standardized), but i dont know that simplifying classes is a great idea. Have some simple classes, some medium complex, some high complex and thats fine. The 40 man raiding take is pretty dumb tho. I would say i think normal difficulty raids dont really serve a purpose and the difficulty gap between heroic and mythic is too high
Eh if you can kill the last boss on heroic you can probably kill the first few bosses on mythic. The real problem imo is just accessibility to mythic. If you are a casual 12 man heroic guild you don't have an easy way in to mythic.
Like the other dude said. Mythic raiding difficulty is 9 times out of 10 the roster and not the raid itself. The last boss I did that was actually due to Blizzard design was Mythic Stone Legion Generals. That was purely because it was a horribly designed boss. I quit playing after M SoD. Halondrus was just overtuned which is an easy fix.
you can already do lower difficulties, why do they need to dumb it down just because you feel bad?
I'm not sure about 40 man raid but flexible raid with more drops more people is better in my opinion. Allow up to 40 man raids..m however remove all difficulty modes for raids and have the singilular raid mode with difficulty modifiers like ulduar.
I would like them to add an "optional hardmode" to heroic bosses, give them one of the mythic mechanics - perhaps tuned down a little - and give us additional loot for doing it. So for example, mythic would be like Ulduar with the hard modes permanently active. Heroic like Ulduar but with hardmodes optional. Right now, we're clearing heroic in 2-4 weeks. Letting us add a mechanic to change up the fight would make the content last longer.
Making the raids 40 man only would kill the game off for anybody but the most casual. The trade chat PuG groups would probably be OK, but we saw what happened when you forced guilds to recruit people into their cliques when we transitioned from 10 man heroic to 20 man mythic for the hardest content tier. Many people hated it. The guild I was in at the end of MoP had for the most part been playing together since WotLK, basically 10 man heroic content. We managed to kill two highmaul bosses on mythic (one of them only with 18 players in the raid) before it fell apart because of the recruiting drive needed to double the roster.
Does he have any idea how much work it is to manage a 40 player roster? We're all in our 20s/30s/40s. We have jobs. Many have families and other obligations outside of WoW. We can't and don't want to spend 20 hours a week recruiting and doing HR work. Lots of the players probably already have to do people management in their jobs, like fuck are they going to want to do it in their free time as well. We don't have thousands of people watching on our twitch channels and can fill a raid in seconds like he could (hell, it's difficult enough getting a couple of guildies to watch a gameplay stream in Discord voice chat).
@11:32 i can give you a perfect example of new players, in BFA both my kids got wow i bought it for them they leveled up to max level and then said *what do i do now dad* so i replied dailys to get gear and level your neck up so they spent 3-4 days doing dailys and normal dungeons and asked what to do now i said more dailys keep grinding out gear then do heroics grind out more gear then eventually do raids start with lfr and work your way up you will also need to install all these add-ons to help you, i still remember both there replys they looked at each other looked at me and said where is the fun in that its boring (that was after 4 days of farming) i said its what we have to do they then said *screw that im going to play fortnight, minecraft and destiny 2 etc (they listed several games) i can just log in and have fun wow ain't fun anymore* both my kids quit only a few days after reaching max level and have not played wow since. (the only reason i didnt boost them or get my friends too is i wanted them to feel the real wow.)
It’s mainly the parsing that’s my issue. So many wipes in classic bc of people tunneling to get a good parse. Please remove parsing
it's crazy how "the biggest wow streamer" makes suggestions about as coherent as your average rando
that dude lives in own filth
Probably because simple things would fix this game. A mass majority of the "skill gap" in this game is just an addon on telling you when to press your buttons. Removing addons would fix like a majority of the games problems.
I’m a player since the beginning and I’m old yes but I love how it’s grown and love still solo playing and end game playing.. I’m disabled and spend maybe more than the normal person but I love the changes.. apart from renewing specs so much that you have to relearn your main all the time… that annoys me.
I still play retail wow (mythic raid). I just like the general pace of the game vs the slog in classic. I do agree that some of the endgame systems (arenas, mythic raiding, and m+) do feel like e-sports and subtract from the MMORPG experience. Meaningful content is instance based and not world setting anymore. To grab at any of the old magic MMOs had, they have to find a creative way to reintroduce the sense of community in a video game... in 2024...
Really the number of abilities (bloat) isn't a big deal. It is that most classes/specs no longer have unique buttons that stand out. Also that buttons don't mean anything until you apply a bunch of spell/passive modifiers to them. The learning curve on finding and pressing a bind is one barrier. When a class/spec's theme is super fulfilling, most of the buttons should epitomize that fantasy.
I miss 40 man raids, but we go with the times. When they did away with 40 man raids, many large guilds split off into far smaller guilds, and that provided some benefit in terms of finding a group of people you get along with better. However, now there are many guilds that miss out on Mythic raids because of the inability to field 20 guild members to raid at that level. I think they should merge the small servers into larger servers and perhaps this will help fix that situation, otherwise mythic raiding is going to need to drop to 15 or 10 people for the smaller servers to have the chance at experiencing mythic raids.
i whould love to see addons gone or atleast only have very few, and then i think they should remove the mythic raid lockout system and make it like HC, and have mythic available cross releam always.
I feel like "detached" is a good way to describe asmongold as a whole. A lot of his takes reflect that.
Classes don't need to be reworked, just a few buttons removed. Mainly the classes that have a lot of cds (brewmaster, unholy dk, classes like those).
40man raiding is just a no. There is no world in where it works in retail. Resizing mythic is something I would be interested in, and I know many people want it. Regardless, I do not want flex mythic, because tuning flex raids for every possible size is impossible. Some bosses would be easier as 10man, and some as 30 man. It would be more toxic for guilds imo. I would like to see 10 or 15 man mythic, as long as it doesn't comp lock you like crazy. Like just the main raid buffs (warrior, mage, priest, monk, dh, evoker) fills up 6/10 slots. I think 10 man mythic is a good idea just stuff needs to change first. If nothing with mythic raiding was changed and they implemented 10 man I feel like it would go bad very fast. If they reduce the impact of raid buffs, or slightly nerf the difficulty of the last bosses so raid buffs arn't as important, then I can see 10 man working.
For addons, imagine 2 worlds. A world where there are no addons and everything that we use from addons is built into default ui, or a world like rn with a ton of addons. I would always choose the first world. But they have to build these required features into default ui!
1. Better personal buff tracking (weakauras)
2. Better target debuff tracking bleeds like rogue rupture (weakauras)
3. In game boss timers (bigwigs)
4. Better nameplates (plater)
5. More customizable personal health/power bars (elv ui/weakauras)
6. A better way in game to track world rares (rare scanner)
7. An easy way to tell if your targeted by a spell in dungeons (weakauras)
8. A better way for guilds to handle loot (rc loot council)
9. Better raid frames (VuhDo)
10. Damage meters (details)
11. Some sort of guild raid notes / setting up personal raid timers for cooldowns (Method Raid Tools)
12. Better ways for raid leads to track party offensive/defensive cooldowns (Method Raid Tools)
13. Planning out M+ routes (Mythic Dungeon Tools)
14. Coordinates (TomTom)
These are only features that I personally use, there are hundreds more that other people use. If they implement these in a good way to default UI, then we could have a world with no addons. But lets be reasonable, that's not happening.
Why should they include it into the game and waste dev time and money when randos on the internet do it for free ?
If we get pvp with 10 spells per class, im gonna quit forever
The stuff Asmongold says is so detached from reality that I'd have to imagine he says these things just to generate controversy and clicks. Unfortunately his drone followers don't know any better and will take anything he says as gospel and then go out and harass people who disagree. Asmongold just needs to walk away. He's said himself the game isn't for him anymore. He needs to actually accept this and move on. It's not healthy to follow and hate watch something that you no longer enjoy.
I disagree i dont think he is doing it for clicks he will get views and clicks doing whatever it makes more sense to believe that its his true thought about the game and stating on what he belives to be the best rather oh he is just doing to generate hate and views
Or he's right and they agree. Either way, no one cares
Yeah, I think these are just his true thoughts.
@@Tettles I guess you have more faith in people than I do lol. My main point is I feel he's being disingenuous.
So many people played wow since they were kids, and now that they're adult they quit or took breaks. That doesnt mean the game has gotten objectively worse. Asmon is just 1 of thousands that has to find reasons to justfity themselves not playing the game. Wow CANT be good in asmons and anyone in his chats eyes ever. If you think its good, its copium
I think raiding definitely needs a shake-up, the current model is not great IMO. 4 difficulties... is at least 1 too many IMO, normal/heroic especially should probably be consolidated. The "barriers" for mythic are loosening a bit for next expansion, but that's 3 expansions too late IMO. Your average player got fed up with server transfers, realm pop problems, and so on and many (most?) lower end mythic raiders have exited, which I think is a metric that can be measured/verified from mythic raiding participation. The very tight mythic raid comps in DF didn't really help either, but this is a poor balancing issue bleeding into mythic raiding.
I Mythic raided this last patch 10.2 and I played 10 hours or less a week. It did not require a lot of time and I had a blast. I found a guild raided and did M+ on the side. Raid tier was great in my opinion. Classic is great but it's a different game from retail, I don't want then to be the same. Retail is more complex yes but I think they hit a nice spot in dragonflight between casual and "try hard".
I didnt play between bfa and cataclysm and when i came back to the game, i was not overwhelmed by addons, i loved looking up and learning about new addons to get and spent countless hours customizing my ui to make it look like the streamers i watched and get the perfect look for me. It was like an art project i had tons of fun with it. When you start wow you dont immediatly jump into mythic raiding, you start by leveling up maybe all by yourself, doing simple quests and some random battlegrounds, world pvp, world quests etc, cus you dont know all there is to do and i think people forget that. People imagine the new player logging into their account and going into a raid or +28 key but its not like that, they are slowly eased into it.
If you start playing WoW because you want to play with a friend who has been playing for years, you want to get to a point where you can play with them asap.
yes but that goes both ways. No actual way you are trying to debate that because you want to play with a friend you need to push yourself to the point of quitting the game. Like come on bro. You can't possible be this unaware. Stop it. If your "friend" makes you do this they aren't your friend homie. @@davidgreenberg8456
@@davidgreenberg8456 I wonder if those people downplaying it would like to install and set up Arch Linux from command line (preferably witout any DE) instead of buying an OEM Windows pc next time.
The problem is setting up the UI further than tweaking the settings is bs and everyone is annoyed by it and thinks it's the devs' job to make it playable out of the box.
Addons make the game for me. Which might not be a good thing for the game since Its much harder to share my experience. I though about it a bit since I've customize almost everything. But I don't think the default setup would be enough to keep me around, it's just missing so much.
Asmon as far as I have watched him (since BFA) is just as toxic of a player and parsing, he even admits to the same “toxic parse” behaviors back in Wrath… His issue is staying relevant in a game with less effort… no “serious” WOW player is going to waste a raid lockout for Asmon when they are trying to progress with their own Guild and his ego is in the way of that.
What I don't get is they have classic for a reason. If you like the way wow was then maybe just play classic?
I recently quit the game after playing straight since legion (yes I made it through shadowlands but not dragonflight) I don't think I'd play the game again unless they make it more viable to be competitive in mythic+ without having to grind gear. I once had a conversation with a friend where he said it was a good thing since you could get a character up to snuff in like a week. and I find It insane people can see a week as ok.. I just want to play the game and not feel like I need to do a dungeon 30 times to get a trinket or spend nine hours every week mythic raiding just so I can get the best trinket off of the last boss. This shit is just not ok no matter how minor an advantage it is Mythic+ Gear should be the best in mythic+ and it shouldn't take days of diligent farming to get to the point where I can feel competitive and until that changes I'll just play games that respect my time.
well comprised video with some great arguments man, your final comment about Asmongold not coming back to the game even if they changes he is suggesting is very true. His streaming career has changed into less gameplay and more discussions which is fine but that being said, he absolutely won't play more than he does now and his arguments don't reflect what the majority of the community wants.
I will never understand how he can say in the same train of thought “the game takes too much and is too difficult to attract new players” then advocates for the most anti new player shit like needing to clear every raid up to the current raid for gear, and says mythic should be easier since he can’t clear it
I don't agree with Asmon but he probably wants new stuff made similar to how classic was made. SoD or Era does not cut it in that regard.
What's wrong with new players being able to play all the content. When a new player jumps into the game e.g. right now one of the worst things he learns is that everything except current tier is irrelevant. Just don't forget it's that try hardy right now precisely because it is the only content you can do. With classic model every type of content is relevant til you decide to progress further not when some new patch drops. Everything being seasonal triggering FOMO just doesn't work for many casual players.
Literal asmon's point is, make the game better , make the UI better, design mechanics that doesn't rely heavily on addons, so that ppl don't actually need addons to be off the same ground as ppl with addons. (I'm gonna make a statement here, without addons, echo will never win RWF against liquid with addons allowed, feel free to argue this) People advocating for addons are literally defending for blizzard's laziness to design shitty UIs.
@@muller317 people don’t need addons unless they are doing end mythic, which these people aren’t doing. Echo would still beat liquid without addons because they’re better players. You skipped over 90% of his points and generalized them in ideas that they don’t even lead to
@@user-nz4un6se7y because you can’t play all the content. If your gear is three tiers behind, YOU are three tiers behind and you need to somehow find people willing to go do content three tiers ago to catch you up. There is no fomo because you can gain all the cosmetic awards that the casuals like after a tier isn’t current anyways. It’s “try hardy” right now because by the end of a patch all that is left is to push difficult content while in classic it just dies. There’s a reason not a soul still plays classic. Retail atleast let’s a new player get in with new seasons rather than having to wait for a new expansion
I think addons and macros are a problem. I think combat addons have got to go. Being able to tech around a mechanic with a macro or addons is not fun. It’s not fun to struggle with a mechanic and find out others aren’t because they have the right addon ir weak aura.
You also should not have to look up syntax to write macros.
Putting cooldowns or trinkets in macros is another symptom of button bloat. I think 10 is too few. I like 12-14 abilities.
No one I know would play wow without add-ons. I understand it would probably be different, but one thing that would not exist is damage meters, no other game have that from what I know and it's what makes dps fun for many.
I agree with you regarding size. I really can't stand large raids and loved 10 man's back in the day (easier to build group comradery). Regarding raid difficulties personally, I think just having heroic and mythic be best but I don't have strong feelings either way in this regard. In regards to addons, I agree with Asmongold, Blizzard needs to get rid of them. It feels like an arms race between the devs and the addon creators. Getting rid of addons would probably force the devs to simplify raid mechanics to some degree and telegraph attacks and mechanics more clearly. If there are current addons that people really like (Details for example) incorporate the addon into the base game.
i gotta say though. even though it might work to have WoW Free2Play, i hope it doesn't happen due to the sheer amount of problems that would come along with it.
Botting,Griefing, and dozens of major issues would come along with that.
agree with your take personally and I play off and on depending on how good the patch is these days.
I think the difference between wanting a raiding group comprised entirely or mostly of personal friends versus engaging with the realm and being in a guild with strangers is the entire difference here and fundamentally alters the MMO experience. The fact you think the latter isn't what players want is because those players likely left for classic or a different MMO.
Also because they're projecting the retail experience. Right now everything is giga gate keepy you can't find or form group for anything competitive.
@@user-nz4un6se7yI personally think the game breeds gatekeeping by design. Many players don't want to wait for hours but often find themselves in that position because they feel they have to scout for "experienced" players to avoid risking their Mythic Plus keys or their rating in PvP. For instance, in Mythic Plus, there's so much RNG involved in the key generation and weekly affixes rotations that it absolutely discourages me from taking part in it anymore. Some might get a +25 of some specific dungeon they wanted during an easy affixes week, and when it happens, they just don't want to risk missing out on an opportunity to get a good timed run because they took chances in inviting someone who appeared less experienced to them. Now, if the key was not RNG, they might be a little more open to taking chances inviting someone who appears less experienced.
The same goes for PvP, but it's worse. You can lose all your rating from 2.4k down to 1k and can get stuck at a much lower rating bracket for weeks or even months. Giving people who have significantly less rating than you a chance might cost you more rating when you lose while costing them nothing at all. But when you win, you might only get 0-5 points if the rating difference is big enough, while they will get like 20-70 points. This might sound fine because eventually the gap between your rating and their rating will get smaller and eventually you can both start climbing at a relatively similar rate, but that stranger usually decides to leave because they need to go or just want to leave. And then you end up with a heavily depreciated rating, having spent possibly a few hours losing rating and winning enough games to have unintentionally boosted someone for free. You did not get anything from it unless you weren't playing for rating and you were only or mainly playing for the love of PvP.
Addons don't need to go away, Blizz just needs to make a decent ui. Its the same UI for 20 years. We have raid frames now and personal resource, that's it. Give me a decent base UI with a way to track ability cooldowns and I'm good.
The base UI is fine. You don't need an add-on for that anymore. Change the settings.
@@johnlinksyou don’t need to do anything. You just don’t play as well as you can without buff/cd tracking. Base ui does not do this in a significant way.
i agree
no it isn't. You don't play the game with a take like that. Your internet overlord is a clown. @@johnlinks
I do use addons but honestly I disagree with some of this. The new base UI is great and can basically do what your'e asking. I track my cooldowns using standard bars. 1 bar, 4x3 middle-ish of the screen like a WA would be. I drop the spell of what I want to track on there and lock the bars so they can't be clicked. Cooldowns center of the screen, 12 slots. USually enough for me but if I need more theres more blank bars to play with. It isn't perfect but its perfectly serviceable and I'm able to raid and I was running +21's without issues tracking anything. Learned this trick from FFXIV where theres no addons and I think with come creativity the current setup can work for a lot of people.
Cooldown and buff tracking is still an issue though. For Frost mage I need to track my icicles and stacks of brainfreeze and there's still no good method for doing that. Weakauras it is for those. But the new ui is so so much better than the old one IMO IMO
@Tettles You said it without saying it, players who quit, the most important opinion they can provide is WHY they quit. That would be factual, it is literally their opinion and could provide valuable insight into what made them leave in the first place. I would also bet that many players who left did so for reasons outside the actual game.
Google either preach, belluar or asmon why they quit, there you go. You probably will get 10 videos about the topic. Reason this video went viral is because his takes doesnt cater to the retailers of today
@@espenpaulsen428 Except they have widely different opinions on why they "quit" when you get to the bottom of it, or at least preach does, and it's not like he quit anyway.
I regard preach opinion higher than asmon or bellular when it comes to design and gameplay to be honest.
I read asmon's tweet and kinda agreed with I do like more the dungeon crawling rpg experience than zergy high sweat m+ gameplay but Asmon's 3 ideas there are literally the worst wow ideas I've ever heard.
He wants to turn your rotation into basically MOBA gameplay.
He wants to remove all the challenge and tactics and nuances of raiding and turn it into a 40 man zerg fest.
He wants to remove addons that allow people to track and customize their UI.
First wow is too easy then its too hard for him theres just no pleasing him. Blizz and the wow community need to cut him and his degenerate fanbase out of the community for good.
Addons have gotten out of hand. They basically play the game for you, that's what is meant by that
@@johnlinks Really? What is this addon called again?
they don't play the game for you at all. They help you improve if you want to; something Asmon and his clown fanbase refuse to do; Self improvement. @@johnlinks
@@Valvad0ss Maybe get CE for every expansion before dragonflight and perhaps have the slightest audacity to ask ppl to self improve, just look at the mirror. Joke
I think no addons would effect rp servers, because they are a big part of rping.
Addons have always been something I love in WoW, just like buy scripts in Counter-strike. So much quality of life. I still can't use stock UI with edit mode, ElvUI is so much better for me.
I honestly agree with asmon on the 10 button thing. I have 40 keybinds and i dont even use arena 1 2 3 for my cc. There are way too many buttons
No arena spec needs 40 binds.
@@ToadMagic As an UHDK, abomlimb, festering, deathstrk, outbrk, lockrock, raisded,trinket, dome, uhblight, kick, defile, icebound fort, ams, grip, uf, aotd, clawing shadows, deaths advance, wraith walk, DT, ERW, stun, coil, apoc, blinding sleet, strangulate, lichborne, Pet kick, pet stun, pet attack, dismiss pet, focus stun/int/pet int/chains, and target arena 1/ 2 /3.
Asmon is way off with these ideas. He's usually better than this. These proposals are very random and extremely subjective. As to "Make wow fun again". I don't think Wow has ever been so simple as he'd like it to be. So I don't know what he means by "again". He's very confused.
If they were to simplify the classes I would probably stop. The interplay between abilities and properly timing CD's, ect is what makes WoW great.
as one of the sweaty nerds who pushes high keys I don't have a problem with setting up my addons perfectly so it makes my game better
but I'm sure in every party I join and every random pug, there are people who's addons are not set perfectly and this is a gigantic problem.
without proper addons you don't understand half the game, casts go off on you and you explode without knowing.
the base UI sucks and it has to improve by a lot
the things that make us have to use addons gotta go too, plater should not be mandatory if the mob casts are obvious on the base UI
these things are holding new and average players down
Reducing Mythic to 16 players would be a good step before 10; 2 tanks, 3-4 healers, 10-11 DPS.
The most important thing that Blizzard has ever done for WOW is separate the game into different versions. I have no idea why we would make the changes Asmon is suggesting to retail when that experience would better exist as a new seasonal classic sever. The different versions of WOW allow Blizzard to experiment without endangering their flagship experiences. Also, I have a million MMORPGs that I can play that offer easier PVE content with limited access to addons, why remove what makes WOW unique?
Wow, a million MMORPGs?!
Removing addons is for sure the way to go to even out the difficulty: Bad players play without addons and they perceive the game as harder, which it is without addons. Good players play with addons making the hardest difficulty managable. The delta between good and bad players would still exist, but when even the best players need custom weakauras, automaticly assigning people in milliseconds to manage a mechanic, we have gone too far with addons.
You could lower the difficulty for mythic, simply by removing addons.
Very nuanced and thoughtful takes, Tettles. Thank you for this!
if his suggestions were to happen, id stop playing
You have some valid points Tettles but also missing some too. As in life, some features of the game are pros as much as they are cons. Yes, we love the complexity in the game, trying to min./max. or trying some different talents etc. But the level of min./max.'ing went to so absurd levels, now you have to use too many skills in such order to max. your dps or your dps sucks. Even if you have just enough dps to do what you are doing, the people around you will still shit on you because you are lower than them in the dps meter or for just doing 10k dps lower than what you can do (because they have an alt. char. and they know how to do it "right"). Not to mention that you need to track 2-3 different buffs so that a perticular skill can do more dps. And to keep track of these stuff you need to deal with addons which are not that user friendly at all. As you see, it is a chain reaction, so talking about topics separately will not give you the best perspective.
About raids, I am a casual player and finishing a Heroic raid is good enough for me. I don't really mind having a red painted item instead of purple with pulsing lights (I got items from vault anyway). And I know that new mechanics with mythic will be overwhelming for me after a point. But I do also know that I can easily do 4-5 bosses (even 6) in mythic with 488 ilvl and still cannot find a spot in mythic raids because of instance save system (and shitty guilds). So, something has to be done with mythic raiding, maybe not as Asmond suggests but something has to change.
I dont understand where this sentiment came from that everyone has button bloat most specs and classes are easy to play very few actually have full bars of buttons like WW monk and even then its not much of an issue. If you want less buttons go play lol or dota
It's funny that Asmon complained about this because if you go back to his videos when he was playing Dragonflight at the start of the xpack, he was memeing about how fury warriors are a 2 button class. I feel like he might have severe memory issues.
idk Venruki made videos about that too
True. I don't think many specs have button bloat either. If they were to remove abilities from Ret for example. You wouldn't have options anymore. And honestly, having played WW both in PvE and PvP, it didn't feel like had too many buttons either, in fact, I love how I have answer for almost all situations when I play my WW.
I don't know; maybe Chi Burst and Chi Wave could be removed because they are not very impactful. And let people choose between improved Vivify or Soothing Mist, instead of having both. But other than those things. I don't know what else they could remove without heavily impacting the WW gameplay negatively. And yes, they might end up turning the game into a MOBA or like LostArk if turn every specs into ten buttons specs which is not appealing to me and I don't know if it's gonna be appealing to the WoW players in general.
This being said, Shamans could use a rework.
@@trollnerd Watching his videos on RUclips every now and then, what I noticed, and I could wrong about this, is that there's no continuity in some of the things he says; a lot of the time, he will ignore what he said in the past without acknowledging the changes in his stances on things in the present. And when that one rare viewer in his chat dares to bring up his past statements, he will claim that he never said such things or that the viewer totally misunderstood him. And then will call the viewer dumb, dismiss pretty much everything they say while his other viewers in the chat say "True" and laugh at the other viewer.
i dont agree with asmongold at all BUT few months ago i was playing league and in the first 20s off the match i types /moveui so i feel like i can't really play with UI add-ons 😊
I won’t comment on what I disagree with on Asmon’s takes, but I’m interested in removing addons *if* we can get a native replacement for the things that addons are used for.
Lol good luck. It took them 15 years to add a basic UI customization feature that was an addon since wrath
I only mythic raid and don't do much of other content, and I think the game is in a decent spot after the changes they made for DF, mainly the ones that affected gearing alts. Perhaps tone down the raid difficulty a bit, and for the love of god get rid of weakaura bosses like mythic echo of neltharion. Also RNG legendaries are a terrible idea.
40 man raiding, there is no way, he has to trolling
Asmon says this stuff for engagement. He knows these takes are way out there but he has nothing to lose as Blizzard will never implement them. It's an exaggerated opinion for content and outrage.
Removing addons is a terrible idea. Although they tweaked the UI it’s still not enough for me. ElvUi just has so much more customization I’ll never not use it. Plater? Yep, standard nameplates are too small for me and don’t give enough information. WA’s are incredibly useful too. When there’s a patch and I log without my UI setup, I don’t enjoy it. I’m not a raider so I don’t know how the current set up is. However, getting 40 players together anytime you want to raid is not going to happen. I know that much.
I do agree and disagree with some of Asmons take. I think the button bloat is pretty high right now. A button pruning would be helpful again. The raiding difficulty is pretty nuts right now. There is a massive difference in running say normal/heroic vs mythic raids. Also M+ dungeons there are just so much mechanics from the mobs/bosses. And finally on his add-on take I do agree alot of combat addons need to just be gone. Its becoming an arms race vs Blizzard with weakauras and DBM to the point where they have to have "hidden auras".
What class and spec are you playing?
ret pally!@@ChristianNathanielLaCroix
oh yes back to classic how curious wonder how many people still play classic
For me it was the oposite in regards to addons
It wasn't that I was overwhelmed with them - often you can read up / watch a guide and copy paste what they do
But it was just straight up borring
Why would I play a game where 3rd party tools are basically playing the game for me - when all I have to do is clicking on whatever is glowing at the moment
Actually braindead if you think addons play the game for you
I like both you and Asmongold but this I can tell his is already a spicy take. His first few sentences got me wondering why he's ignoring half of what players actually want.
10man raiding > 40man aggros, he just wants 40 for streaming.
If you remove all my ProtWarr spells, and replace it with a mere 10, it'd already feel generic, bland and boring to play.
M+ just needs fresh, fun affixes or only seasonals instead of what we had this expac
The list goes on...
I may not agree with his 40 man raid, but the 10 spell would not make any class bland and boring. Just look at lost ark, they have only 8 usable spells at a time and like 18 in total you can choose from, i don't remember, but every class feels unique and u have, and lost ark has the best in any mmo ever imo.
you know what m+ makes more fun tho ? RELEASING MORE DUNGEONS.
it 100% would make every single class boring.@@Miliexy
@@ToadMagicCare to explain how it would make classes boring ? Most classes now have a bloated rotation that doesn't feel good to use, and the war within isn't fixing that. Less buttons and make them more impactful, and have passives that change gameplay rather than have too many actives in my opinion is better
Even if they did what he said, he would end up quitting and saying the game is too easy. He would be carried through every raid and given all his gear.
Asmons logic = Womens logic: "I want you to change.... You are no longer who you used to be. It's over."
0 seconds ago
The issue is Asmon is stuck on nostalgia. No fault of his, a lot of us OG players that remember vanilla, BC, ect. Were young and we all either built friendships or had friendships that sort of centered the game during an impressionable time of our life. Some of us grew with the times and some are stuck looking for that "high" of nostalgia. Given Asmongolds mental state in general makes his take understandable.
From gameplay perspective and healthy game design the Plunderstorm is amazing and the most replayable and fun aspect of WoW right now. I started playing properly in Shadowlands and WoW is a clusterfuck unless you played it for years. Most of the points made about changing the game were correct as all of those were huge fences to jump over before getting a grasp on the game
No addons, less abilities are probably the most important ones I think. In addition the responsiveness of Plunderstorm is way greater than the one of main game mode.
Unfortunately a lot of retail players are so invested and conditioned by that point it's hard for them to think out of the box. I imagine what their reaction would be that you have to install and set up Arch Linux from the command line (without any DE) in order to be able to use the pc. Clearly they would be loving this idea.
What people seem to not understand is that the reason you have truble getting 20players for your mythic raid is that there are so many barriers to entry. Having the right addons, having the correct WA package, having good sims, your ilvl is not perfect, your M+ score is too low.
Removing all those barriers would make the pool of available players for you to invite much bigger, and with easier raiding content, more telegraphed abilities, no red on red on red on red boss abilities you woulv not need to be picky about who to invite
This reads as mythic raiding is difficult because it's hard to get 20 players. And it's hard to get 20 players because it's difficult. Therefore mythic raiding is difficult because it's difficult.
Oh really? If it really is that problem, then why are standards so high even in classic wow where raids are easy af?
@@alexis1156 Amen. Because the people who play wow are the problem just as much as the devs are. They just don't want to take any responsibility for their own assholery.
@@simonmonis5749 lets say we go the other way, make mythic rading only require 10 people, sure its easier to fill the group, heck, lets make it soloable, that way you dont have to make any effort to invite or think about anyone other than yourself and everyone can progress at their own pace. At what point does the game stop being a MMO and become a solo rpg with online trading
@@alexis1156 I would be willing to bet that classic developed the same types of barriers the moment the content became harder, Ulduar and onward, its not qs hard as mythic raiding ofc, but its hard enough for many players to drop out, strarting the spiral of "i cant find players for my raid team, make raids smaller".
40 man raids and no add ons are directly opposed to each other. Unless they walked back the raid complexity to vanilla wow levels it would be impossible to do mechanics with double the people and no add ons. Imagine doing twice as many tindrel seeds, or 8 people shadow cages on fyrakk with no possible way to make it easier with add ons. Basically everyone wants mechanics to be possible to just yolo with no weird macro add ons, and having 40 people running around instead of 20 would make it completely impossible to communicate in order to be able to yolo mechanics.
This is EXACTLY what they want. Raids to be standing in one spot while pressing frostbolt.
As an old man, I really appreciated the mature review of Asmongold's points.
If I had no bag mods, I would lose my damn mind. There are plenty of mods that have nothing to do with competitive stuff. RP, altoholic stuff, crafting, none of that has anything to do with weak auras. And My ADHD makes it so if I was gonna raid, I NEED a boss addon.
they need to make plunder storm permanent and free then they would get a bunch of guys who buy the game to pvp.. then eventually they venture outside of pvp into raiding and pve content... its a no brainer really.
Interesting take from him, I raid mythic so I can get mounts lol. Im not looking for a career or an esport job
O.o well, to some degree, he is correct. blizz appears to cater and talk so much more closely with the sweaty player base like max, Towlie, the RTWF teams, and the big push event, the MDI etc. Seams like mainly mostly Esports get the attention? Only decent guilds you can seem to find now always require degenerate requirements filtered down from CE guilds, and I don't want to clear mythic. I just want to do the first several bosses. Maybe some specs need less buttons 🤔. 40 man raids suck, flex grouping for all difficulties and spend the time tuning the difficulties properly then nerfing mythic 30 times.
Dragonflight is the best time ive had on WoW since Wrath. I have never kept a sub this long the whole history of the game
He does not play classic.
For similar reasons mostly
you know there's a content draught when asmongold's take is being discussed as a form of content
He is right imo. Its like last epoch vs poe
Dear tettles. I'm sorry but your takes are wild to me ! You still only see these takes from a high level player. Come down to my level of an lfr raider. I 100% agree with asmon. Let me first say, my takes will be completely dismissed because "why listen to you, you only do lfr!" But to asmons point. EVERYONES OPINION MATTERS! not just 1% mythic guilds or 1% keystone masters. I only raid lfr because I can't commit to raiding schedules. So does my opinion not matter? I'd say yes it does! Making the game "easier" for everyone is the better move. Just because you want harder content means I can't get casual content. Who wins here? My vote equals yours. So who is correct when we both want something for the game?!
step one - do not listen to asmond
Why not?
so we can listen to asmon?
For me either 5 or 10 ppl raids, less one shoting mechanics, less trash and running between pulls.
asmongold only wants wow the way he wants it and noone else opition matters.. so asmongold's opinion doesnt matter one bit
who?