Great video. In my view the reason this has exploded around Grand Design is because they have marketed themselves as a very customer focused. They have in the past been willing to take care of customers outside of warranty when defects arose that were not the customers fault. But with this issue that’s been turned on its head. Just look at PavingNewPaths videos on their experience. It’s not the failure that’s the issue it’s how Grand Design has responded. That customer service issue is what really has people upset and why Grand Design is taking so much heat for this. They claim this is happening to less than .5% of units. That’s a tiny fraction. If they had just taken care of people instead of hanging up the phone this could have been a positive instead of the huge negative it’s become. I’m a happy GD owner but given how the company has dealt with this issue I’m not sure I would buy from them again.
This is what a lot of folks have been saying, and was the thrust of my first video on the subject. It's often the response the issue, rather than the issue itself, that can do the most damage.
It speaks volumes that he has a Grand Design repair facebook page, not an all manufacturer's repair facebook page. I am currently in the market for a new fifth wheel and Grand Design was at the top of my list. Given Grand Design's reaction to this issue as well as this facebook page, I won't be looking at their fifth wheels any more. I know I won't be guaranteed of no problems with another brand but I will blame myself if I buy a GD and it breaks after all the warnings I am seeing.
Don’t look at Jayco my 2022 is falling apart every time I use it the number of screws nuts and bolts that didn’t get installed at the factory is ridiculous I actually had a Jayco customer service rep tell me it is on the dealers to make sure that all that was completed when it arrived to their lot
He has repair pages for several brands. I'm in the keystone group. I've now had 2 Montana High Country's with frame failures. In Keystone's case it's the cross members that break rather than the riser.
So, fundamentally, Grand Design RVs are not manufactured nor engineered, nor designed for the uses they are marketed and sold for. Their RV's, AS DESIGNED, will fail for their intended use cases. Yet, customers are not informed as to the implications of limited load capacity, "allowable" road conditions and wear rates.
I can say the people I have seen with these issues are not kids with that mentality. so they can't use that as the reason for their neglect to build it the right way and not going cheap to max out profits.
Just an opinion, but I think one of the reasons this has become such a big topic, is because the RV industry boomed in 2020-21 due to Covid. People couldn’t vacation as normal, so they bought rigs and discovered a new world out here. Back in the day, RVing was a weekend, week, or seasonal thing. RVs were smaller and typically not traveled very far. These days, people are living in them, buying them bigger, and traveling farther and more often. Grand Design is taking a lot of hits (again, in my opinion), because Covid hit at the same time that GD came out with impressive new rigs, that were priced well. I can’t tell you how many campgrounds I see, filled with mostly GD rigs. So when considering all this, and combining with the end-user errors (over loading, wrong truck, etc.), and GD responses (or lack thereof)…I can see a “perfect storm” of circumstances that has affected enough people, and made its way to the media level. Once it hits the mainstream, it becomes a beast, and creates fears that become far worse than the issue itself. I’m not saying it’s not devastating to the people that actually do get frame failure. But I think if the manufacturers would step up and take responsibility for their part (and really investigate it), and help the folks that do get the problem, then people wouldn’t head to the mainstream to vent, thereby, diminishing the credibility and reputations of the manufacturers. It doesn’t take that many people to ruin a company, they just need to reach the right platform and be loud-even if the problem only affects a small percentage. Sorry this was long, but it’s an opinion that perhaps some folks may not have thought about. Thanks for reading 😊
GD certainly has done zero to bely the belief that their RV's can be used 24/7/365 and dragged from one place to another week in and week out. The fact remains that these RV's are not designed or built for that kind of abuse. Too many are using RV's like a single wide trailer and have turned RV parks into trailer parks.
yes flex is something all frames do these are Failures from bad welds and poor design not all RVs have the issues most are Toy haulers or the longer heavier 5th wheel trailers@@vivian2077
yes due to poor welds and design of the frames around the pin box area. they are cheap on the thickness of the material and I even see the gussets only welded on one side both sides should have welds @@vivian2077
@@RVtravel Really, you selected a very qualified expert to interview. He was very articulate, and your questioning got right to the point. The editing was great. We, your viewers, didn't have to suffer a bunch of 'noise' to get to the 'need to know.' In addition, there were also good points to reinforce sound practices in loading and operating an RV. I watched this as if I were an executive with an RV manufacturer and a consumer with a unit that has an excessive frame deflection. I conceded points on both sides of he isle. That said, I do wish manufacturers would first build quality and, second, stand behind their product and have pride in "Built in the United States of America." Also, there was no sugar-coating about the cost to fix it while affirming the issue could be fixed. Long-winded to say, well done. Well done.
I have often wondered recently if all these issues aren’t the result of using aluminum studs instead of wood. The old units from the 80’s-90’s were VERY heavy with wood studs, and never had these problems, (nor did they inherently have broken springs, shackles ect). I remember new units advertised as all aluminum walls and how much lighter they were. Welds break, they are not forgiving like wood. wood bends.
I dont know why Dustin says these campers need to be watched so carefully. Other trailers I own a goose neck flatbed gets loaded much more heavily with equipment and taken down rough dirt roads on a regular basis without issue. Yet many 5th wheel campers cant go down american highways as they left the factory and require major upgrades, unless its a stationary unit?
Great Video and Interview
You are doing incredible work throughout this whole issue. Thanks for taking the lead on this!
@@Oldpocalypse Thank you. I'm trying..
Northwoods makes their own frames. Have you seen any issues with their fifth wheels?
We have a 2012 Arctic Fox and haven't seen any indications of this issue.
Great video.
In my view the reason this has exploded around Grand Design is because they have marketed themselves as a very customer focused. They have in the past been willing to take care of customers outside of warranty when defects arose that were not the customers fault.
But with this issue that’s been turned on its head. Just look at PavingNewPaths videos on their experience. It’s not the failure that’s the issue it’s how Grand Design has responded.
That customer service issue is what really has people upset and why Grand Design is taking so much heat for this. They claim this is happening to less than .5% of units. That’s a tiny fraction. If they had just taken care of people instead of hanging up the phone this could have been a positive instead of the huge negative it’s become.
I’m a happy GD owner but given how the company has dealt with this issue I’m not sure I would buy from them again.
This is what a lot of folks have been saying, and was the thrust of my first video on the subject. It's often the response the issue, rather than the issue itself, that can do the most damage.
It speaks volumes that he has a Grand Design repair facebook page, not an all manufacturer's repair facebook page. I am currently in the market for a new fifth wheel and Grand Design was at the top of my list. Given Grand Design's reaction to this issue as well as this facebook page, I won't be looking at their fifth wheels any more. I know I won't be guaranteed of no problems with another brand but I will blame myself if I buy a GD and it breaks after all the warnings I am seeing.
You are not alone in this opinion.
Don’t look at Jayco my 2022 is falling apart every time I use it the number of screws nuts and bolts that didn’t get installed at the factory is ridiculous I actually had a Jayco customer service rep tell me it is on the dealers to make sure that all that was completed when it arrived to their lot
He has repair pages for several brands. I'm in the keystone group. I've now had 2 Montana High Country's with frame failures. In Keystone's case it's the cross members that break rather than the riser.
So, fundamentally, Grand Design RVs are not manufactured nor engineered, nor designed for the uses they are marketed and sold for. Their RV's, AS DESIGNED, will fail for their intended use cases. Yet, customers are not informed as to the implications of limited load capacity, "allowable" road conditions and wear rates.
I can say the people I have seen with these issues are not kids with that mentality. so they can't use that as the reason for their neglect to build it the right way and not going cheap to max out profits.
Hope your channel grows. This is by far the most informative conversation on this issue.
So nice of you to say. Thanks!
Just an opinion, but I think one of the reasons this has become such a big topic, is because the RV industry boomed in 2020-21 due to Covid. People couldn’t vacation as normal, so they bought rigs and discovered a new world out here. Back in the day, RVing was a weekend, week, or seasonal thing. RVs were smaller and typically not traveled very far. These days, people are living in them, buying them bigger, and traveling farther and more often. Grand Design is taking a lot of hits (again, in my opinion), because Covid hit at the same time that GD came out with impressive new rigs, that were priced well. I can’t tell you how many campgrounds I see, filled with mostly GD rigs.
So when considering all this, and combining with the end-user errors (over loading, wrong truck, etc.), and GD responses (or lack thereof)…I can see a “perfect storm” of circumstances that has affected enough people, and made its way to the media level. Once it hits the mainstream, it becomes a beast, and creates fears that become far worse than the issue itself. I’m not saying it’s not devastating to the people that actually do get frame failure. But I think if the manufacturers would step up and take responsibility for their part (and really investigate it), and help the folks that do get the problem, then people wouldn’t head to the mainstream to vent, thereby, diminishing the credibility and reputations of the manufacturers. It doesn’t take that many people to ruin a company, they just need to reach the right platform and be loud-even if the problem only affects a small percentage.
Sorry this was long, but it’s an opinion that perhaps some folks may not have thought about. Thanks for reading 😊
Thanks for that thoughtful response! I agree with pretty much everything you've said.
GD certainly has done zero to bely the belief that their RV's can be used 24/7/365 and dragged from one place to another week in and week out. The fact remains that these RV's are not designed or built for that kind of abuse. Too many are using RV's like a single wide trailer and have turned RV parks into trailer parks.
then he should get better Engineers and WELDERS the quality of welds is horrendous.
yeah blame the customer for springs how often are they changing springs on their own give me a break.
Frame Fail not Flex.
Frame fail? Looking at Northwoods and ORV.
yes flex is something all frames do these are Failures from bad welds and poor design not all RVs have the issues most are Toy haulers or the longer heavier 5th wheel trailers@@vivian2077
yes due to poor welds and design of the frames around the pin box area. they are cheap on the thickness of the material and I even see the gussets only welded on one side both sides should have welds @@vivian2077
Great Video. Best I've seen on the subject.
Glad you liked it!
Super good stuff here. Thank you good sirs!
I appreciate that very much!
@@RVtravel Really, you selected a very qualified expert to interview. He was very articulate, and your questioning got right to the point. The editing was great. We, your viewers, didn't have to suffer a bunch of 'noise' to get to the 'need to know.' In addition, there were also good points to reinforce sound practices in loading and operating an RV. I watched this as if I were an executive with an RV manufacturer and a consumer with a unit that has an excessive frame deflection. I conceded points on both sides of he isle. That said, I do wish manufacturers would first build quality and, second, stand behind their product and have pride in "Built in the United States of America." Also, there was no sugar-coating about the cost to fix it while affirming the issue could be fixed. Long-winded to say, well done. Well done.
This sounds like GD infocommercial. BS.
I have often wondered recently if all these issues aren’t the result of using aluminum studs instead of wood. The old units from the 80’s-90’s were VERY heavy with wood studs, and never had these problems, (nor did they inherently have broken springs, shackles ect). I remember new units advertised as all aluminum walls and how much lighter they were. Welds break, they are not forgiving like wood. wood bends.
I dont know why Dustin says these campers need to be watched so carefully. Other trailers I own a goose neck flatbed gets loaded much more heavily with equipment and taken down rough dirt roads on a regular basis without issue. Yet many 5th wheel campers cant go down american highways as they left the factory and require major upgrades, unless its a stationary unit?