@@PavingNewPaths The face is that the Global Zionist ____ are planning a stationary populace . They are ending OIL and GAS and DIESEL . So they are in effect ending RVs so they dont plan to warranty their products . The Global NWO is not a joke , they are also planning a massive population reduction in case you havent been paying attention.
I am not a Grand Design owner (thankfully!). It is hard to watch your videos without feeling an incredible sense of sympathy for your predicament. There is nothing more exciting than heading out on the road full of adventure. Because of the failures and design flaws from Grand Design that dream has been stifled for you guys. Praying for a satisfactory resolution so you can get back on the road with a reliable RV. Kudos to you both for diplomatically sharing this experience. Hopefully, no one else has to go down this same path! Subscribed
Or they could do the right thing and take care of the owners who purchased their products! We have been reading all about this and it seems as they don't ever result in the owner being the one happy with the outcome!
How many? Millions of RVs on the road! I personally have seen around a dozen or so with frame issues. How many have you seen? An RV isn’t designed to be moved every 3-4 days and travel 10k miles a year! Yes, I live and travel in one of them FT!
@@KylesRV If we were the only one with this problem then I would agree the pinbox could be a factor! But what about all the other frames that break the same way with the lippert and morryde pin boxes!
I have the frame flex problem with a different manufacturer and had it fixed. 1) The fact that the problem exists with other pin boxes is not going to work for you. GenY is not approved, you fitted a non approved accessory. When I went through getting warranty I had to provide photos of the 5th wheel and pin box. Mine were stock. 2) I hope you resolve the issue with GD, but I would hate to think you get preferential treatment, all should be treated the same. 3) Lippert make the frame, GD make the aluminum structure to which the walls are attached. Frame flex is usually referred to as a weld failure in the aluminum wall, that propagates into cracks in the outer wall by, lower slide corners. If you examine the quality of aluminum welds it’s not surprising there are failures. In most cases the fix is to redo welds and some innovative fixes in the squares between aluminum structure. Lippert get unfairly blamed, GD should do a better job. Lippert would share some blame if their steel frame wasn’t to specification and movement there was placing undue stress on the wall. 4) Lippert make the frame to specifications determined by GD.
It's definitely a problem for all manufacturers, not just GD! 1. There is only a one-year warranty on the frame (per GD and Lippert), so it's been out of warranty for some time. And if our rig was an isolated event, we would agree that the pin box could be the issue. But, many rigs with stock pin boxes are experiencing this problem, as well. 2. We absolutely agree that everyone with a Lippert frame should get the same treatment. RUclips or social media presence or not should not determine their willingness to help. You'll see in our follow-up video that no preferential treatment has been given! 3. We agree, this isn't a Lippert problem, this is a manufacturer problem! 4. Lippert will continue to get unfairly blamed until they step up and say no to building insufficient frames for the manufacturers.
Keystone Montana have a three year warranty on structure. They have been authorizing warranty repairs on units older. I have the one year and keep monitoring for the problem.
You've shown the main reason why I say the prices for these units/rvs are not justified!!!!! And you have not neglected your RV, constantly improving and upgrading!
I am ok with just about every issue we have had up until this! We do use ours more than most and our problems are a result of how much we move! But when the foundation has a problem I can't be ok with just throwing more money at it!
Omg Kevin has video proof of how good he takes care of there rig, there truck all of it one of the benefits of being OCD I have it too lol but he has treated this rig better than anything I have ever seen and even prenvative things to the point I thought well maybe that is a little overboard lol!! JK love you guys and thank GOD you have all these videos showing how well you take care of your home even that one park where you had to trim the branches or you did can't remember because you didn't want it to get the roof scratched.. I could go on and on but yea GD would be barking up the wrong tree if they don't fix this for you without you spending a dime this is a total design flaw and once it's fixed well... We will talk about that later❤😮
I believe I've read they will want you to jump through hoops like getting it CAT scale weighed and attempt to prove you put too much weight for the frame at some point. Hopefully they don't, but if so, we should all join together and make a big stink. I'm in!
The good thing about having a RUclips channel as we have already documented our RV being weighed! It has actually been across the scales 6 times on this channel and every time it was under the GVWR of the trailer!
Sorry guys! If I only knew then what I'm learning now, I feel your pain. We have a 2021 Keystone #3781RL Montana 41' we bought it USED in October 2021, so we figured it was built in the fall of 2020 in the middle of the pandemic! So my point is the quality of the build and finish was terrible to begin with, we figured the person before us owned it for almost a year before we bought it from a Keystone dealer. Anyways, when we bought it, we had it towed about 150 miles (before we got our 22 F350) from Portland OR to the central coast Pacific City Thousand Trails (annual site) where we haven't pulled it since. But when it was moved to the coast, while setting it up we noticed mouldings detached, cracks in interior walls, wallpaper stretched at corners, the floor started to squeak in the bedroom and makes me think that the frame is twisted even though the 5th wheel is perfectly level (#3781RL front bed-rear living) we have moved the 5th wheel a couple times with in the park but didn't notice if when hooked up the floor still squeaked. We were planning on retiring in Dec 2024 and pulling the 5th wheel to Texas where we plan on living in retirement. Now we are rethinking that part and selling before the move to TX. We feel the only positive is we bought it used and saved $40k. BTW KEYSTONE won't give us the time of day, because we aren't the original owners. In the future I would pay for a 3rd inspection, if we had we would have never bought this 5th wheel. We haven't had any major issues with the appliances. I will not buy a Keystone or 5th wheels from there parent company in the future! Best of luck.
That's exactly our point! It doesn't need to be towed down the highway at 60+ mph. It weighs 20K! Can you imagine the devastation should it completely fail? Our lives and the lives of others is not worth that risk!
I think GD in company perspective really only is geared towards interior design-features. If the chassis and frame structure was of real quality, the company would be GE (Grand engineering) but it isn't
It would appear that the Grand Design isn’t very grand. I would expect engineering design defects. It is not capable of withstanding the vibration generated by normal road travel. Engineers have available excellent structural analysis software in the design process that would have prevented these problems. It would be interesting to know the manufacturers design and testing / validation process. But they certainly know how to make them pretty.
I was afraid this was what you were going to find. I hope GD takes care of it for you. Looking forward to see it get resolved and you guys getting back on the road.
We had been looking more since there are so many channels that have had this issue! We thought we were good, but that last move we noticed things changed! We hope GD helps but what we have learned is they don't help anyone with out lots of money involved!
Which puts y’all in a bad spot. I will pray for you to have miraculous repair so you can sell it in good faith. You are probably looking at a long repair time. As many followers that you have it would be nice if one manufacturers would partner with you and give a killer deal like JD got. Wink…wink.
@@PavingNewPaths Kevin, maybe, just maybe since you guys have a big following GD and/or Lippert may do something and help you guys out buy if not and you guys end up getting a new rig, you may want to talk to the guys over at Brinkley. Brinkley seems to be turning the RV Industry on it's head and manufacturing a better-quality product and when something does go awry, they are taking care of their customers.
What? R U kidding me? GD step up and take care of its customers? You must be living in the state of Denial. This is how the GD owners got so rich; by not taking care of its customers. Why would Grand Design stop lying to its customers now? Especially when the deceit and duplicity have put so much cash in their pockets. That dough is safely stashed away in a Cayman's secret bank account. It's in the vault right next to the Biden's hundreds of millions of dollars. I'm sorry, but good luck finding it.
Anyone who would by a north American rv would have rocks in their head. We have owned 8 of them over this past 40 years and without exception, all were low quality builds. Frame issues, water leaks, appliance issues, electrical problems with cheap inverters, and the list goes on. It is unbelievable the total lack of care in assembly and design of these things. The manufacturers use "light weight" as an excuse to use sub standard materials, even down to using cheap plastic faucets and shower assemblies. I still don't understand why they can not make a roof that don't leak. I have seen many UHaul box trucks that are 30 years old with their roofs like the day it was made. Why can't this be used in the RV world? I know as a customer, I would gladly pay a premium for a product that I know I can trust while on the road.
Thank you! We had to wait a few days to get ourselves composed to film this! We knew there was a problem, but once you measure it now you know there is a problem!
I am so sorry you guys are having these Issues. This is one of the Many Reasons I do no like Grand Design 5th wheels. Now the "Frame Flex" is not Just a Grand Design 5th Wheel Issue. But I have Noticed in the last 2 years Grand Design Quality on the actual Build is a DISASTER. This is why I personally do not sell them. I have had 27 of the Solitude, Reflection, and Momentums in for Frame Flex, Black Tank Replacement, Plumbing Problems. Every Since Winnebago Bought them it has been 1 disaster after another. To get the ball rolling. Call Don Clark. He is the President of Grand Design still. Call him and email him 2-3 times a day. It is the only Way Grand Design will do anything to help. THEY WILL BLAME IT ON LIPPERT.
Thank you for your feedback on your experience selling these units! We are considering all options at this point but have zero confidence that GD could make this right or fix it properly.
That is a worst fear coming to Reality!!! Just read about another GD owner with broken frame. I have a 2021 GD Solitude and I am always monitoring the inside and outside after each trip. GD needs to step up and make this right for y'all and other owners who will experience this issue!! Will be watching for part 2
You're right! We are living our worst nightmare dealing with this! It's something RV owners shouldn't even have to be concerned with! If they were built on sufficient frames, this wouldn't even be an issue! We've seen some Solitudes with frame issues in our research,so keep a close eye on it! We certainly hope you never have to experience this!
The flex on the pinbox, when you took the weight off the truck, was crazy. For me, that was the scariest part of this video. The pinbox and the surrounding frame should be the stongest part of the RV. I hope you guys can work with Grand Design to get it fixed. Love your videos. ❤
Don't waste your time with GD. Find a welding/fabrication shop and have them repair and reinforce the structure. I have been following several of you folks with this issue with Momentum rigs and its obvious that GD did a piss poor design. Another possible fix is contact Lippert directly about them repairing it. They are the ones that probably know what really needs to be done to fix and prevent further problems. Remember they only build what they are contracted to build and have no control what is done when a rig is actually built. I would also contact the federal govt listed in the owners manual as this is a safety issue.
Better to send it down the road to the scrap yard. Everyone who fixes one spot. Then another one shows up further down the frame. Seen to many of and people need to stop buying GD overpriced crap because they think there better quality🤦🏻♂️😂🤣 they just have a greedy company owner is all. Buy American made you get garbage for higher prices 💯
We have reached out to Lippert as well for assistance on this issue! We want to make sure we choose the right path! We have also talked to several that have gone through this already and after hearing the $ it takes to fix it we are not sure we will continue to throw money at this RV!
"they only build what they are contracted to build and have no control what is done when a rig is actually built" That is a huge cop out. This should not absolve them from any responsibility. Most suppliers are responsible enough to find out how their products are being used. If Lippert is actually that stupid, then they deserve criticism. It's just laziness by Lippert and the RV manufacturers and nobody is holding them accountable.
This all comes down to who did the engineering on the design. If lippert engineered the frame based on the design requested by GD,then they could be the liable party, but if it was engineered by GD there is a good chance lippert was not aware of the complete design and where all of the stress points would be based on floor plan and weight distribution. Just watching this video I see there is allot of added stress on the weld joints on the riser portion of the frame due to the concentration of weight on the door side raised portion of the frame. That washer dryer combo alone is a few hundred pounds of load, not including the shock load it puts when bouncing down the road
OMG! … wow… here I’ve been watching all these videos and planning a move to FT living in an RV… trying to determine whether I want a class A or 5th wheel… settling on a 5th wheel (Brinkley) and then seeing this… where literally everything is falling apart. I sincerely feel for you both. Now I’m questioning everything. At minimum I will cross Grand Design off my list.
Good Luck on repairs and Positive Outcome!! I’d agree, the Brinkley has shown high quality and strength. One clip noted it was only one that states bed can be used when slide is in. They’ve taken a long look at designs and created a strong unit and their frame build specs are focused at preventing problems. They can all have problems, but the GD has many reporting frame problems, and many expressing poor factory support. Unlike DVR, etc… haven’t read or heard of frame issues.
Good luck with your decision! We've heard Brinkley has a more robust frame, but haven't verified that ourselves! Just know that most RV's sit on frames made by Lippert so it is important to know what frame your RV is sitting on. This is something we never considered when making our purchase, as we assumed the engineering behind the frames was sound!
@@PavingNewPaths I would have just assumed that also. Call me silly…. I guess. Thx for sharing this video. And keep us posted to how it gets resolved or… 😳
I live by the RV capital of the world, and my family has worked in the industry, I have made parts for the industry, the older fifth wheel trailers never had the problems like they do now, the problems start with the hitch, the older units sat on the hitch straight down, so all the weight forces were on a straight line, now they have to put on hitch extensions, now were the hitch mounts to the frame has a ton of twisting torque on it putting pressure on the whole front of the frame and by the frame mount, the only reason they changed is the trucks, it's so the trailer can be pulled with an 8 foot truck bed, also the walls help to support the frame and when you have a slide out on the sides it weakens the frame in a sense, I don't own an RV myself but knowing how they are put together and the peoples habits that build them I would build my own before buying one from a factory, my dad was also in the industry for probably 30 years and he also said that he would never buy a factory built RV, he knew too much about them.
It says a lot when someone who has been in the RV industry for any given amount of time won't buy a unit from the manufacturer! We wish they were still being built like they were 30 years ago!
“My Bucket List Day” and "1StrangeAdventure" RUclipsr channels have the SAME ISSUES…. You might want to check the rear part interior of your rv too, " 1StrangeAdventure" had issues in that area also. So Sorry to hear about your RV issues. Hopefully GD steps up and takes care of the issues!
Multiple channels posting same info, not sure why you can’t seem to find it. I highly recommend you find the channel that took it to a independent RV repair place that specializes in frame repair. They have done hundreds of repairs and have come up with improvements to the frame to upgrade the poor design. I highly recommend you do not use your manufacturer’s recommendations as numerous other videos show repairs failed shortly after. So if you have no warranty coverage or even if you do. Please do your research and find a independent repair facility that has previous repairs, well reviewed and has experience. Biggest think is improving the repair as clearly the frame design is inadequate for the load. And repairing the original design will continue to fail like many others have posted. I wish you luck
😢I have nothing constructive to add. Just sorry this is happening to you guys and so many. We only use our Reflection about 8 weeks a year but I suspect we aren’t immune. We’re just so glad you and your littles got home safe 🙏🏼
Yes, the only positive is that we (or someone else on the road) weren't seriously injured or killed from the frame failure on our way home! We appreciate your sympathies! We thought this problem was only happening on triple axel toyhaulers, but we've since seen it on smaller units! We hope our experience is never yours!
This is the second video I watched this week of the same issues. The last video involved scrapping the trailer. Thank you for showing the bad with the good. Sorry for what is going on. I think the last trailer was also Grand Design if I remember correctly but it seems all the manufacturers are putting out garbage at a high price. They should be held accountable.
We have a follow up video about our situation and GD coming out next Sunday! We also believe they should be held accountable and at the very least people should stop buying their products!
With the fact that you’ve documented how much care you give to that RV, I’d say that you guys are the best candidates to force the manufacturer to fix this issue or give you a comparable RV to replace this defective one. I doubt that any other RV users that have this same issue have the documentation of maintenance & repairs that you guys have. Plus not to mention how many followers you have on your social media who would be watching for the outcome of any claim that you make.
Hmmm….will wait to see what Grand Design says. I don’t know much about the “frame flex” issue. I do know, looking at your page and a few other videos that y’all seem to have nothing but problems, challenges and semi-disasters. It sure looks like you’ve got a problem with your “house.” I’ve always said that before buying a truck and 5th wheel/trailer, folks should consider if how many airline tix/car trips that money could buy - - and then decide if you want to put up with RV maintenance. Good luck!
@@brucewallace3860We have had our share of probelms with this rig but it appears worse because those videos are the ones that get the views! We have over 250 videos that have zero probelms, but youtube promotes the ones that get views, they just so happen to be the problem videos!
I just want to know how this turned out…. I know I’m late to 5he party but people should know there is a Grand Design “service Center” in Elkhart Indiana right across the street from the Alliance Factory. If I found this kind of stuff going on in my rig, I’d be heading directly to that service center and camping in their parking lot.
Hearing more and more about the Momentum and Solitudes with this problem. Grand Design needs to own up to this fiasco and have a complete recall or owners should organize and get a class action law suit going.
Dang! I can only imagine how stressful and dissapointing this is! I'm looking forward to the Part II video to see what GD says and how serious this really is. The way it looks in the video, I'd be reluctant to tow it very far. Good luck, I'm sure you'll keep us posted.
It won't be towed at all until we find an acceptable resolution! Driving it 900 miles to GD isn't an option in the condition it is in, when it literally puts lives at risk! Something tells us there will be a part 2, 3 , 4 and 5 follow-up to this video! We are going to keep everyone in the loop with how this gets handled!
Ive dealt with Grand Design on a warranty claim, it wont be a pleasant experience. GD has the best combination of floor plan and decor on the market, IMO, and I will never purchase another of their or Winnebago's products.
This is my worst fear on our 2021 399TH. Our pin box right form day one sits on an angle up as your does while connected. Like yourselves we are second owners. I have had a couple of issues where I've reached out to GD and they were not only helpful but extended a customer appreciation warranty and sent us parts at no charge. But this frame flex thing is a much bigger issue. I have watched the channel my bucket list and what he has went through nobody should have to. Hopefully yours is not as big as his was, it would be life altering to say the least. Good luck and await the next video in the series.
We pray you never experience this nightmare! And we've been following along with his frame failure issues, which have been astonishing, to say the least! Keep a very close eye on everything, as our rig went from minor issues to major issues in a matter of two moves.
Kevin I don't even want to say this word but I would think about consulting an attorney about this or at least a private investigator to see if this is a major problem with GD because of if is this is not just your home, your investment, your families safety at stake but GOD FORBID your traveling and something crazy pops off.. my prayers are with you and Felicia and the family❤
I was wondering when this issue would show up for you all. I’ve watched a few other videos of people with a Grand Design 5th wheel, and there issue with them. As I see it now, I think that using them full time (moving more than once a month) they aren’t made for that!! Weekenders, once or twice a year users, that it!! Hope and pray that Grand Design will do something for you all. They have to know by now they have a problem with these units. Stay safe!!
The fulltime use they advertise and sell these units as is why we have a GD! So using them for what they are made to be used for shouldn't have and asterisk about how much you can actually us it! We do agree if we never moved it we would have hardly any issues with the trailer! But we bought it to travel and see the USA!
Yes! Please film it from etart to finish. Thank you. Frame flex appears to be occurring on smaller RV's as well. Some manufacturers are blaming the RV owner when it's clearly frame flex or frame failure.
Wow. As I have the 2022 version of your rig i immediately went and looked around in the bedroom. As far as I can tell everything still looks attached without gaps. I will need to check the hitch next time I hook up. Biggest difference in my rig is they moved the washer hookup to the middle right over the hitch. But yup I am now worried as I’ve heard too many stories. This is a time when I am glad I purchased the extended warranty. I live in mine full time as well but don’t travel nearly as much as you do. I am sure those roads in the northeast don’t do either of us any favors.
Same here. 2022 THS. We live in ours FT. I hate seeing this happen to anyone especially Kevin and his family. Truth of the matter is, these units are not designed to be moved every 3-4 days and travel 10k or like some channels up to 30k miles a year.
I just bought a 2022 Forest River Cherokee Wolfpack 315pack12. Second owner on it and I did notice something funky about the molding on the front. They did address at the dealer and I did spend extra money for purchase an extensive warranty 7 year in fact. It was not cheap but I will be watching this. I had no idea wow. I hope you get the answers you need and I love your channel. Be safe in your travels.
I have the same WP toy hauler but it’s a 2021 . I had the trim on door side moving up front since it’s was brand new so I removed it and installed back and sealed it and it’s not moving now . I did do the frame flex measurements and pin box measurements and they were the same hitch up or unhitched.
We sincerely hope you don't have to deal with this nightmare. Just be 100% sure what your extended warranty covers, as Lippert confirmed that the industry standard on frame warranties is one year from the date you take ownership.
Our trim coming out on the door side happened often and happened months before we started noticing the other issues. Keep an eye on it, for sure! We hope our experience is not yours!
When you replace your rig, look at Outdoors RV manufacturing. Their frames are custom and each design has its own specific frame. Four season, high quality, tough, RVs. Yes, you do pay for it, but I'm sure your GD wasn't inexpensive and it certainly wasn't a bargain, considering all this damage.
@@astrodb4487 I was impressed with the operation. I was an aerospace engineer for 40 years and although we’re talking apples to oranges, just the fact that they use cad design for their chassis, is impressive but it’s still the RV mfg that’s respectable for the species of the chassis and the bottom line is the “technicians” that assemble the coach for the consumer. I have an Outdoor RV 5er and I’m looking every year for water intrusion. That concerns me the most🇺🇸
Dang! Just got my momentum 2020 398m out of the shop. Was in for 6 month with broken frame. Welds we’re broken and flex was severe when weight on pin. Grand Design and Lippert paid for repair. I hope it is really fixed. Huge repair.
It's just completely unacceptable that all these frames are breaking. And even more unacceptable that it took six months for repairs that may or may not hold! In a situation that is completely their fault, at least they didn't make you pay for their mistakes. Unfortunately, most others in your position can't say the same. We have an update coming this Sunday, so stay tuned!
We are so glad to hear you are not experiencing these problems! Definitely keep an eye on it, as a whole host of issues popped up within our last two moves, quite rapidly!
Where it all went wrong was when manufacturers discovered most TTs used to get used only a couple times a year, if at all, so they started building them weaker and cheaper than ever before because they thought noone would notice...but introduce the recent uptick in travelling rvers putting thousand of miles on their rigs and the flaws are becoming so much more glaringly obvious...and now its an epidemic.
Yes, you are right! They shouldn't be advertising them as fulltime rated, if they aren't, in fact, fulltime rated! And they should have beefier frames to handle the load on top of them.
I was at the Greenville RV show yesterday and I was looking at Brinkley. And that is what I am going with. I talked to thee Grand Design rep, I asked him about the frame issues and he assured me that the issue has been resolved. I don’t believe him. Brinkley is a much better built RV. Not that they are perfect as all RV’s will have issues especially if you are full time.But the frame is a critical failure and a huge safety issue. I hope you get it resolved, from what I am seeing GD has not had a good success rate on repairing the issue. Sorry y’all have to deal with this on top of everything else.
We'd love to know who you spoke with at the GD show! Seems that employee has admitted fault in their frame design, whereas other employees pass the buck and say things like "you're overweight"!
Just happen to have his card! Nic Minder. There are as you probably have seen some RUclipsrs that have been documenting their journey with them and they are under warranty. I was really considering a GD , but this is a deal killer for me. I don’t mind paying a little more for quality and good customer service.
What amazes me the most is how much maintenance and care you do to your whole rig. Imagine if you were laxadasical on your care what might be. I feel so sad for your bride I can actually feel her sadness. Never expected that from Grand Design. I hope you do a video all through to the end. Praying for you guys
Thats the part that bothers us the most! We spend so much time and money taking care of the rig to avoid all these issues, only to still have major problems!
While the weight is on the truck, I'd tie a string from you two points that you are measuring, then lift the trailer off of the truck and see how much droop or sag is in each string. Great visual
Lippert builds all the frames, and this has been going on for years. This same thing happened to me. The rectangular tubing they use has a wall thickness of around .125. The front structure of the overhang is, to put it mildly, “under built.” This is why the front overhang framing cracks or breaks. You better lighten the front of your rig. Remove heavy items that like washer and dryer etc., before you have a catastrophic break of the overhang framework. I don’t believe this would happen if they would just buildout this frame area in the front, out to the pin box mount, using .250 wall thickness rectangular 2x4 steel tube. Just my .02
So sorry this is happening to you. My friends 351 did the same thing and it was broken/cracked welds in the frame of the front pylon area. The whole front had to be dismantled to get to the frame, weld repairs made and then reassemble the front. Good luck!
@PavingNewPaths It really needs to be addressed by Grand Design. We have an Imagine 2970 and hope to upgrade to 5er so we can roam the US. I I really appreciate your channel.
After the last video, i was right about the frame issues. Im sorry you're having to go through this, and i hope GD or Lippert steps up to the plate and makes this right. Two years ago, we ordered a GD travel trailer TH and ended up backing out when we saw a few others online having issues with GD. We ended up going with an Outdoor RV coach based out of Oregon for our TH needed, and so far, it's been really good. Good luck getting everything resolved.
Thank you for your sentiments and kind words! We are so glad you are happy with theRV you ended up choosing and haven't had any issues! Living this nightmare hasn't been setting we ever imagined we would be doing when we started our fulltime RV life!
I have the same EXACT issue on my 350G. It started out like you, molding pulling loose. Then, the last time we parked it (IN October) we saw a lot more damage. Did the same. Recorded hitching and un-hitching the rig. We opened a claim with GD. I have those videos private but will make them public now.
We'd love to know what GD said to you after opening a claim! You should absolutely make them public! GD seems to think these are isolated events, when I suspect there are a lot more RV's than they could ever imagine with the issue! Not everyone has a voice to speak out onto a public platform, so we want to be that voice, and make sure they hear us loud and clear!
Sorry this is happening to the both of you. I have some friends that the back of their Montana. Was separating from the side wall. From the factory it had 7 screws holding it on. Not all the same size or length. Like you their rig is out of warranty. Placed adhesive where we could get it to go in. Then used a ratchet strap to pull it back together. Installed new larger and longer screws every 6 inches. Then replaced the sealant to make sure it was water tight. They have not had it on the road yet. To find out if it will hold. We wish the very best for upcoming repairs. Be safe and hope to meet around a campfire.
We are sorry, too! This isn't the kind of video we had hoped to make to get views! We hope everyone watches it though! Too many people are only concerned with an RV's bells and whistles, when we should be paying attention to the foundation the frame sits on! Substandard frame designs have now been exposed and need to stop being made!
I had a crack in the wall of my Rockwood under my bedroom slide. Rockwood was really good about fixing it. The frame wasn't cracked, but it was separating. They said the lag bolts had come loose under the bedroom onto the frame. I don't understand why they would use lag bolts with the flex of the trailer. Bolts with a nut only makes sense, it won't back out. Ther said my trailer was overweight. The real problem is our highways suck, the frame should be made well enough to take that abuse from rough roads.. The trailer weight when full is also under rated. They replaced my entire wall for free and it was out of warranty by one year.
GD Won't do a damn thing. They didn't do much for the one guy who was under warranty and he's still in a lurch with his rig. The manufacturers and stealerships don't give a rip after they make the sale.
Wow that is crazy how much the pin box moved when you put the weight on your truck.my friends fifth wheel frame was cracked where the pin box was attached to the frame.he had it fixed at a metal fabrication shop and they fixed it and he never had any more problems with it.good luck on your trailer
Keystone Fuzion (my model) has a MASSIVE issue right now with a frame crack causing wall cracks under the bedroom drivers side slide, requiring HUGE repairs...glad you caught this now... great video, thanks for sharing..
@@PavingNewPaths Yup, and I've had a gut full of the BS "oh it's to be expected, you take your house through a earthquake every time you move it".... at some point Lippert also has to say "Look Keystone, GD etc, your engineers have put too much weight on the frame your asking ujs to provide you, WE'RE not prepared to be defendends in a class action " and refuse to sell them the frames. The non stop passing the buck between dealer, manufacturer, vendor (like Lippert, Suburban, Dometic etc) has to stop it wastes months of time when doing warranty work and in situations like this. Glad GD is helping you, we'll see how far that hope goes.. fingers crossed. You did the right thing not being the first buyer, I'm always second as well, let others take the depreciation hit and get all the initial bugs worked out. Your Ford and this trailer are a GORGEOUS package, the colors is great. I'm looking for a 450 in the same colors to match my Fuzion so love all your videos, thanks again..
Thank you! We love our set up and we really hope this works out as we are not ready to stop traveling! But at some point you have to say I am done throwing money at this thing!
I’ve probably watched 5000 rv videos over the last 7 years and this is part of owning an rv. It doesn’t matter what brand you have I promise every brand has issues. I own a solitude and have for 5 years but I tell everybody I know that all rvs have potential of being one problem after the other
You should measure to the FRONT of the box of the hitch box, not the rear. As the truck goes up the 5th wheel hitch starts to tilt and that makes the measurement look better because the rear is going down
The procedure we followed was from Lippert and this is how they determine if it has frame flex! There is some movement that is allowable, because being to stiff would cause other problems!
@@PavingNewPaths I understand they gave you that process, but sure to the hitch flex is hiding the flex. Hopefully it is unwillingly on their part, but real flex should be measured to a point without opposing flex. I believe that if you measured to the front of the pin box the flex would be over 1.5 inches. Weather they like to measure it like that or not, the real flex would be the average of both measurements. Even if its only for information purposes, could you measure it?
@james-rd4dq You can't get a straight line measurment with the tailgate in place! Also using a sting doesn't give you any actual measurement of what is happening! We are following the procedure given to us by lippert the frame manufacturer!
We are so thankful that we made it home in one piece, as well! And we will have follow-up videos regarding our interactions with GD and what the outcome is!
My thought is Lippert will have you jumping through hoops. Especially with the gen-y on there. If they can find a way to blame it, they will. Takes the pressure off of their weak frame builds.
Don't worry, they all say the frame is out of warranty after one year of taking ownership! So they don't even have to address the pin-box! Our rebuttal to the pin-box is, why are frames failing with stock/approved pin-boxes? If we were an isolated case, they might have a leg to stand on!
@@PavingNewPaths absolutely!!! I had this little fight with our manufacturer as well. I think it’s trash. Seems there are a lot of GD having these issues
Hey guys, welcome to the club. I have a 376TH and the Frame Flex is getting corrected right now, North Texas area. 1/2” is considered pretty bad. I am also a second owner, I purchased it about 6 months after original purchased date. The answers came back 1-4-24 from GDRV, they will not assist and Lippert will not assist. Multiple welds broken and gusset plates are too thin and too small. Welds do not look as though they is enough penetration with heat. Also, front internal frame structure has broken welds, the Lag bolts are loose and broken. I don’t get GDRV not assisting second owners, we still own their product and it make us think twice before purchasing anymore of their products or promoting the products. About 10k repair. Good luck,
We are so sorry to hear you experienced this nightmare, too! Do you mind shooting us the info on the shop fixing your rig, either on Facebook Messenger or our email hello@pavingnewpaths.com We don't feel great about letting GD fix the issue since it wasn't done correctly the first time, plus it's over 900 miles to get it there! We wouldn't even drive it one-mile in the condition it's in now.
Why do so many RUclipsrs buy Grand Design when it’s widely know about major problems like broken frames?! Look into Northwood Manufacturing (Arctic Fox, Desert Fox, Outdoors RV, Nash etc.)with their off-road chassis and all weather design.
We have an Arctic Fox and we don't regret that decision at all. We live in PA and they aren't easily found on the East coast. We bought our in Spokane after taking a factory tour in Oregon. In March it turns 10 and it's been 100% problem free.
I think when the majority of people decided to purchase a GD, there wasn't a widespread problem with their units at the time. We've had the unit three years, and the previous owner had it about six months. When we looked into the RV lifestyle, we looked for units that were fulltime rated, as this would be our fulltime home. Never dis we think we would have to question the integrity of the frame the unit sits on. We live amd learn and hope our video sheds some light onto a problem within the RV industry, as it isn't just one specific brand or model that is having frame failures.
I hate for the day to come, but the documented cases of frame flex, it's just a matter of time until someone has the whole front frame break loose and rip the front off the trailer, and the rest of the rig goes for a ride on its own. I guess they will find out if the break-away function works. If when the front end rips off it doesn't rip out hydraulics. God bless ya'll and everyone else going through this. I pray when the inevitable happens, no one dies. Ya'll stay safe until you get this problem resolved.
This is precisely why we are so passionate to share our story and get the word out about these inadequate frames. It's only a matter of time before someone is seriously injured or killed when a frame breaks going down the highway at 60+ mph. You'd think the manufacturers would be proactive in their approach to fixing this known issue so a loss of life or serious injury doesn't have to occur, but it seems they are taking a reactive approach. I pray every night that this get resolved before such an event occurs.
We have a 2021 397TH. We have similar interior signs of flex such as above the door side closet(including wallpaper creasing), the creaking floor, the top step wallpaper creasing and noise when setting weight onto tow vehicle. We are F/T too so curious how your interaction with GD will go. I found spider cracks on the front cap I believe to be associated. Contacted GD about that in Feb 2023 and have never heard back.
Message us if you'd like the contact names of the people we have dealt with. Although you shouldn't expect much help! Especially if you have taken ownership over a year ago. Frames are only in warranty for one year from the date of pickup. Our problems started small just like yours, but it didn't take long to fully escalate into what we showed today.
I would appreciate any POC and contact info you can provide. I've also read elsewhere that 0.5" flex was within limits as per Lippert. Hopefully that is accurate, but walls not being connected etc. is a prelude to more issues I'm sure.
@@AZFunSeeker You will find the things they sold you based on coverage are. ot true when you need them! we were told one year by GD and lippert! Even if it was 3 year we would still be out!
I watched a videos long while back of a grand design at a grand design meet where they hitched up and seen the flex. Come to find out the frame welds had broke. Grand design actually sent out a welder to temp fix so it could be moved to get permanent fix. Good luck enjoy your travels and videos
You would think they would offer that to everyone! But asking someone to take a compromised rig to a dealer for inspection, you've asked too much. We will not take responsibility should we have a catastrophic event while following your instructions to drive it with an obvious frame failure. That is just crazy!
Seems too many content creators have contacted them as of late! We will have a follow-up video coming soon! Bottom line is, content creator or not, they should absolutely be fixing every single insufficient frame they sold to unaware customers! It's a huge safety concern, and they shouldn't wait until there is blood on their hands to make the products they sold sufficient.
@@PavingNewPaths !00% they should be fixing this across the board. Not sure if you have see what Geoff over on "My Bucket List Day" is going thru with his busted frame but it seems like a nightmare....
We have a 2017 Jayco Pinnacle 36kpts. Jayco's are known for the crack on the bedroom slide. After our dealer Pharr rv failing to fix it twice. Jayco sent us to Vogt Rv in Fort Worth Tx to fix the frame and fiberglass issue. We have been happy with the work Vogt did and have not had issues. Jayco sent factory reps to train Vogt how to do the repairs. Hope Grand Design helps. We did not have issues until we added our generator and we do not have a washer and dryer. I question if the weight of the generator was our cause. Was never given and answer. Also we are not full timers.
Thanks for sharing your experience! We are glad to see your issues got resolved! It's unsettling not knowing what caused the issue in the first place because you have no reference on how to prevent it in the future!
@@PavingNewPaths Affinity is certainly the place to have this addressed. They have a long wait time to get in, but there's always a possibility of someone cancelling and a spot freeing up. Best of luck, just went through this with a Montana.
Not saying you don’t have a cracked frame but yes a gooseneck style frame hitch will “flex” and a half inch isn’t crazy but the concerning thing is one side if deflecting more then the other. But it’s almost impossible to inspect/repair with all the covers on. Which is a big pain to take off and reinstall.
Yes, there is an allowable flex given by the manufacturer in regard to the frame. That is why they had us perform the flex test, because anything over an approved amount, is too much. It will be interesting to see just how broken it is when the filon is removed for inspection!
Also look at DRV Mobile Suites. They pride themselves on having one of the strong frames in the industry. DRV supports the ability to raise the complete rig off the ground with the jacks and the hitch is rated for 5k lb towing capacity.
To many of these issues surfacing. I've heard that even Grand Design's fix isn't that great. If you have to pay for it, I would remove the filon and take it to a certified welder. Add crossmembers and gussets. Grind out and redo broken welds. I wouldn't feel good about hauling it back to GD from Texas as is, especially if the extra inside movement / damage won't be covered.
We wouldn't move it one-mile in its current condition, much less the 900+ miles to Indiana. And why would we trust the company that engineered a subpar frame to "fix" it correctly the second time around? If we have to pay for it, we won't be taking it to Grand Design!
If the bottom of the trailer is loose the lower measuring point is moving toward your truck when you put trailer weight on the nose of the trailer. So it is moving more than 1/2”. Can you see movement of your roof?
We know this is a rough way to measure the correct way is from the I beam to the pinbox corner mount! But the fact that it did move 1/2 inch this way means it is a big deal!
Sorry to hear you are having problems! Many others have had broken frames in fifth wheels too. Some get welded and gussets added, some are totaled. This is an insurance claim. Best wishes, Kevin. Not coming back.
Yes, many others are having this exact issue. And that's just who we know about from social media. We suspect there are droves more who don't have a social media presence to voice their experience. Insurance should deny these claims and hold the manufacturers responsible for their inadequate frames. Unsure what you mean about not coming back, but thanks for the well wishes!
I feel your pain. Sadly I had a new 2019 Grand Design Reflection back in 2018. It was worthless. You have a broken frame. It’s from inferior structural design. For all practical purposes, your rig is totaled. This is a known issue. Your best option is to get an attorney and litigate this in court. Good luck.
We are sorry to hear that you, too, had problems with your RV. It's quite sickening just how many people have reached out to us with similar problems, yet GD acts as if this is the first they've heard of their frames being under engineered. We have a follow up video coming soon, but as expected, GD's response to our call for help, was pitiful, at best.
I am so sorry you are going through third. 1 Strange Adventure just went through this with GD. We are having different issues with our rig. It is a Dutchmen Voltage toyhauler that has a midbunk as well. Our living room slide floor seperated from the wall. Needed to be rebuilt. Now it looks like our kitchen and other 2 slides are having issues as well. We are waiting on approval to get these redone as well.
Thank you for your sentiments. We've seen the problems from 1 Strange Adventure and many others in the RUclips world. Sorry to hear you are having issues. If you've watched our channel before, you may remember our living room slide has had issues three times now. We suspect it is from the frame failure, but at the time, chalked it up to being used so much. We have a great repair shop in Memphis if you need a recommendation!
I just watched this and am heartbroken for you and all the other people who have Grand-designs. I have seen this on allot of other channels and I’m quite surprised they are still in business!! I have not heard of one case where the poor owner one. People put their live savings into this RV. And as you said, more importantly, it’s your home!! You have no 1st home to retreat too. I have no idea what it cost to repair!! 😢😢😢😢😢😢
This seems to be happening amongst brands that use Lippert frames. There are so many nightmare stories like this in the Keystone community as well. Look up Affinity RV in Goahen Indiana, they deal with these regularly.
The problem we have with all of this is we shouldn't have to take it somewhere to have it repaired! When the welds and frame break Grand Design should stand behind their product and fix it! Not leave the owners to figure it out for themselves!
I completely agree with you and I hope they cover it. I’ve been following this issue as I have a second hand Montana. I’ve heard good things about Affinity RV and they work with manufacturers regularly on this problem with fast turn around times. Best of luck.
-25 years old strong i-beams under a good cross but remember RVs were not meant to they're supposed to be recreational but we think we could drive them all the country and abuse them with the roads that they are carried down and they do have to go through a lot of abuse if you pair with a frame looks like to what a fifth wheel truck frame looks like you'll see quite a just cuz you spend a lot of money on a camper does that mean you're getting a better believe me I have found this out I have flipped a few as far as I found that the slide outs work best with hydraulics I've also found that hydraulic lifts the level the campers cause a lot of problems because they twist they're not on the center of the frame they're on the side think about a gooseneck trailer and you build a house on it that's basically what except that gooseneck trailer has a better frame to it than what your believe it when you go to look at you said
Sorry to hear about this design flaw…I live vicariously through your family travels and have come to realize that although I yearn for that open road and RV lifestyle, my skill set and bank account are not up to these challenges I know that you and Alicia will make the best decision for your family and finances and will continue to pray for health, happiness and joy for your family😊🙏❤️
We appreciate your thoughtfulness as we navigate these tough times and decisions! We never expected this lifestyle to cost what it does but are glad we could shed some light into the true costs for those interested in RV life.
Well, that really sucks. Thank god nothing major while traveling with family. Hopefully you will have better luck since you have a you tube channel. Good luck
@@musimowingmoreinc9031 I tried to help GD see the positive in letting us film this and them helping us! Since we are not brand ambassadors or a paid influencer for them! It basically closed all doors for us
I know on our new reflection we bought last year they were not helpful with on demand water heater. They sold us a 4 season camper but water heater was suppose to be winterized at 39 degrees. How do you use water if winterized at 39 degrees. Was told i could boil water on stove by cs rep. I said NO F'IN WAY. Then they proceeded to tell me about a controller for the water heater. It has since been retrofitted via dealer paying for it. If not, i would have filed a lawsuit for mis representation of good sold and made them replace.
I am sorry to see what happened to you ! I hope the Grand Design or Lippert stands behind it Please keep us posted I have a Grand Design 5th wheel as wheel and I would hope they stand behind the problem and take care of it for you !
Thank you for your sentiments! We will certainly be doing follow-up videos with our interactions with GD, Lippert and if necessary, our insurance company. Stay tuned!
We have been following his story and we can confirm a lot of the things he said about GD are true, at least that is the way they have been treating us!
You're taking this way better than I would. I'm waiting for "the other RUclips couple" to find out their toy hauler is flexible too. Good luck with that, I hope you can find a solution.
It took us a few days to decompress from our last two travel days before we could make this video. We were trying to stay as positive as possible when filming, as we aren't experts in this, but at times, it was difficult since it's quite obvious there are major issues.
I have a 2022 Grand Design Transcend that the floor is moving, dinette moves when driving, cracked wood, and when walking on the floor it creaks real bad. Need to have it looked at once winter is done.
Absolutely have it looked at before you move it again! Your problems sound very familiar to ours. We thought this was a toyhauler/triple axel issue, but the more we researched, we've found Solitudes having the issue and other smaller units. We sincerely hope yours is not frame failure, as it is a nightmare you don't want to experience!
Hi I watch a lot of your videos. I know of another rvr and he's having the deal with Grand design. His RUclips channel is my bucket list bay. I hope you have better luck with Grand design and what he did. Love your channel.
Thank you for your kind words regarding our channel! We appreciate you following along with our journey! We've been researching other owners with frame failures and have been following along with this channel!
I am really sorry to see this happen. I wonder if once you get this repaired or invest in a new unit, investing in a Morryde independent suspension would help. It seems it would take a lot of the shock out of it when traveling.
It is unfortunate that it happened! We have been in contact with several owners who have been through this and quite a few of them had the Morryde IS and the frame still broke!
I had this very thing a year ago on the road in Florida. It started with the same issues inside, trim and cabinet issues. Turned into busted frame and the trailer down to about 1-2” above the rail of my truck. I was way beyond warranty at the time, and I had no faith in Keystone to help. Once I found the crack I found a local mobile welder and he repaired for under 1k. I needed to remove the filon and all the trim which is a huge pain. I have pics to show what was done if you’re interested. Definitely have it repaired before you hit the road again.
That's sad and scary! It's ridiculous that manufacturers are getting away with this! We won't be pulling it one-mile without something being done first! There's too much liability in doing so, and we all know the manufacturer won't accept responsibility for that liability.
I understand but they will not treat this the same as a sticks and bricks home. Like others have said get it repaired and dump it because it will happen again since the original design was bad. Having been a rep in the industry I know what happens and what to look for. We have been considering our first 5th wheel ( after 6 travel trailers since 1985) and we are pretty sure it will be a Brinkley. FWIW... In the past Montana had these same issues and finally designed the frame to last. Its all about the profit on each unit and the push to keep making things lighter because people don't want to invest in good tow vehicle. If you lighten thing up too much you leave room for failure.@@PavingNewPaths
Normally body panels are removed to measure like you said. All welds are also checked at the time of measuring. If found to be bad (which yours should be) the front neck frame is plated and reinforced. We had ours done, thankfully under warranty
We assumed GD would offer to send someone out to remove the filon and do just as you expected. Shame on us for assuming anything! Instead, they'd rather us drive a 20K lbs. rig to an authorized dealership for inspection. No, thank you! We are glad you got yours fixed properly!
@PavingNewPaths yeah being out of warranty and fill time camper they tend to not care about customer. Ours only got fixed cause we chased them for 6 months and it was known problem with that model. It spent more time in shop then we had it for first year. 3 furnaces, 2 ac units, 2 water selection valves that flooded camper, leaking roof, slides extending while operating legs, batteries only lasting couple hours, solar chargr controller melted due to being too small, and the next breaking so bad it cracked side exterior wall of camper
@PavingNewPaths plus it's GD. The dealer I bought from damaged my camper in their yard and they tried to push it through as warranty but GD caught on. Then when thay camper was in for repairs the dealer "lost" it right out of their shop. They told me that was forth camper so far that year (was in August) that they had "lost" out of their shop. Neither dealer or GD would do anything to help me out. Only thing I ever got out of GD was a set of springs that I had to change myself because they put wring axles and springs under my camper. They never did come good for axles. And all this was under warranty as camper was "lost" before warranty expired
I'm guessing since your the 2nd owner it's probably 4 or 5 years old People on social media full time rv people newbies everyone that has bought a grand design rv 5th wheel trailer there thinking since at least COVID hit They are all complaining of the same issues It will Cost a lot of money to fix all of the problems on this rv I was hoping the these problems would pass by you guys Good luck
You are correct it was built in 2019 and the original owner picked it up in 2019! We got it in 2020 and if you have been following along you know we have gone thorough our share of issues, but for the most part they have been minor and a result of the way we travel! This however is not minor and we are not sure what our next step is yet!
Oh man, now I’m wanting to check our 2017 399th. Our son is living in it until this summer, so may have to run down to Georgia and hook it up to see what we see… thank you for the step by step. You guys are awesome
We've followed along with his issues since learning of ours. 17 broken welds is completely umacceptable; heck, one broken weld is actually completely unacceptable!
We have a 2022 397th Momentum. We had it about 6 months. Had to have the off door side basement door replaced because it bowed. Would not close. Off door side hydraulic leg would not hold its position. That got replaced. But the door side leg is at an angle. Was told that is normal. So the new one is straight. The other is still at an angle. The front door is hard to open, and now both basement doors are bowed. Plus, the bedroom floor squeaks.our longest trip was from Caldwell, ID to Creede, CO. Taken it to Libby, MT, and Eastern Washington. We haven't talked to GD yet. I watch 1 Strange Adventure on RUclips. They had a frame flex. They also installed Sumo Springs. GD said that was the cause. Switch It Up has flex and Sumo Springs. We were gonna get some Sumo Springs. Glad we haven't. 😢
So sorry to hear of your troubles. It seems they will say anything and blame anything to take the blame off of their design flaw. We do not have Sumo Springs, by the way.
Sumo springs are not really springs they are more like bump stops. There are videos out there that show how they crush the frame. If they can crush the frame they are putting stress on the entire frame. If you're smart don't get them.
Well scratch one MFG off my list of options. Wonder if the build on the side with the W/D isn't as robust as it needs to be to hold that extra condensed weight. Also might not consider a w/d in an rv. won't change much because later this morning dad and I have to go do laundry at the laundry mat.
We considered that as well but the bed and slide is on the opposite side and the generator is also on the opposite side! So there is way more weight on the side that isn't broken than the side that is!
@@PavingNewPaths maybe more weight, but that w/d is more concentrated on one small square. I am using my history with home w/d so perhaps i am overthinking how much a w/d in an rv weighs. Either way, it sucks and i am sad you have to go through this.
@@notfromaroundhere Lippert makes frames to the specs that the manufacturer provides. It's the manufacturers, who are overloading the frames, that cause this mess. They don't want to pay for a more robust frame.
Looks like we will need your luck! We are sorry this is happening, too! But, we feel the need to share this negative experience so others can be warned.
We ordered Wildcat Sterling from the factory. It was a awesome fifth wheel, it had a fireplace in the bedroom. It had windows all around the camper. I ordered the camper from the factory just the way I wanted it. We went to the factory in Elkhart IN and took a tour of them making a Wildcat Sterling. We got the camper home and after a few trips the frame started to separate from the camper. We took the camper back to the dealership with 3 pages of problems. The dealership kept the camper for a month. We got the camper back and found out the camper was worse off. We were going to Yellowstone and we couldn’t depend on that camper so we traded for a Cedar Creek. We got a email from the couple that bought the camper and wanted to know why we would trade in such a beautiful camper. They parked the camper in one spot and never moved it. The Cedar Creek has been great, not without problems, 10 we have had the camper and probably a hundred thousand miles or more
The momentum are having major frame issues more ride needs to step up and fix them. We were thinking about buying a brand new one, but we put everything on hold
I would strongly consider looking into how the RV is built and what frame it is built on before making a purchase! We have a totally different outlook on RV's and the traveling fulltime lifestyle now!
@@PavingNewPaths going to retire here in three years we were going to travel everywhere. I was looking forward to it still gonna do it. We were looking at the momentum 376 the small garage to put the bike in the back.
@@gregmonhollen4327 I am ok with most of the probelms we have had as they are a result if the way we travel! But when the frame has issues thats unacceptable!
Here is the condensed version of our frame issue. 2021 brand new keystone cougar 368mbi. Bought brand new and went on a long trip. At the end of the trip the off door outside wall split down the side. Camping world did all measurements and communicated with keystone. Keystone took camper from syracuse ny to Indiana at their expense. Ripped front cap and whole off door side completely off. Fixed frame and replaced whole sidewall. Also all corresponding damage inside. Difference between us and yours is ours was under warranty. Didn't cost us a cent. They shipped camper back to syracuse and so far it's fine. Keystone was very informative keeping us informed about progress etc. Repair took about 4 months. Good luck. Hope things work out for you.
Not all Grand Design have bent frames, but all bent frames are Grand Design.
Correct!
@@PavingNewPaths The face is that the Global Zionist ____ are planning a stationary populace . They are ending OIL and GAS and DIESEL . So they are in effect ending RVs so they dont plan to warranty their products . The Global NWO is not a joke , they are also planning a massive population reduction in case you havent been paying attention.
I am not a Grand Design owner (thankfully!). It is hard to watch your videos without feeling an incredible sense of sympathy for your predicament. There is nothing more exciting than heading out on the road full of adventure. Because of the failures and design flaws from Grand Design that dream has been stifled for you guys. Praying for a satisfactory resolution so you can get back on the road with a reliable RV. Kudos to you both for diplomatically sharing this experience. Hopefully, no one else has to go down this same path! Subscribed
There should be a class action lawsuit against these manufacturers. I’ve seen so many of these
We agree! Why they would wait until someone is seriously injured or killed before issuing a recall is beyond us!
Or they could do the right thing and take care of the owners who purchased their products! We have been reading all about this and it seems as they don't ever result in the owner being the one happy with the outcome!
How many? Millions of RVs on the road! I personally have seen around a dozen or so with frame issues. How many have you seen? An RV isn’t designed to be moved every 3-4 days and travel 10k miles a year! Yes, I live and travel in one of them FT!
@@KylesRV If we were the only one with this problem then I would agree the pinbox could be a factor! But what about all the other frames that break the same way with the lippert and morryde pin boxes!
@@KylesRVI work as a mobile tech. This is definitely not the case . It’s poor manufacturing quality and workmanship
I have the frame flex problem with a different manufacturer and had it fixed.
1) The fact that the problem exists with other pin boxes is not going to work for you. GenY is not approved, you fitted a non approved accessory. When I went through getting warranty I had to provide photos of the 5th wheel and pin box. Mine were stock.
2) I hope you resolve the issue with GD, but I would hate to think you get preferential treatment, all should be treated the same.
3) Lippert make the frame, GD make the aluminum structure to which the walls are attached. Frame flex is usually referred to as a weld failure in the aluminum wall, that propagates into cracks in the outer wall by, lower slide corners. If you examine the quality of aluminum welds it’s not surprising there are failures. In most cases the fix is to redo welds and some innovative fixes in the squares between aluminum structure. Lippert get unfairly blamed, GD should do a better job. Lippert would share some blame if their steel frame wasn’t to specification and movement there was placing undue stress on the wall.
4) Lippert make the frame to specifications determined by GD.
It's definitely a problem for all manufacturers, not just GD!
1. There is only a one-year warranty on the frame (per GD and Lippert), so it's been out of warranty for some time. And if our rig was an isolated event, we would agree that the pin box could be the issue. But, many rigs with stock pin boxes are experiencing this problem, as well.
2. We absolutely agree that everyone with a Lippert frame should get the same treatment. RUclips or social media presence or not should not determine their willingness to help. You'll see in our follow-up video that no preferential treatment has been given!
3. We agree, this isn't a Lippert problem, this is a manufacturer problem!
4. Lippert will continue to get unfairly blamed until they step up and say no to building insufficient frames for the manufacturers.
Keystone Montana have a three year warranty on structure. They have been authorizing warranty repairs on units older. I have the one year and keep monitoring for the problem.
You've shown the main reason why I say the prices for these units/rvs are not justified!!!!! And you have not neglected your RV, constantly improving and upgrading!
I am ok with just about every issue we have had up until this! We do use ours more than most and our problems are a result of how much we move! But when the foundation has a problem I can't be ok with just throwing more money at it!
Omg Kevin has video proof of how good he takes care of there rig, there truck all of it one of the benefits of being OCD I have it too lol but he has treated this rig better than anything I have ever seen and even prenvative things to the point I thought well maybe that is a little overboard lol!! JK love you guys and thank GOD you have all these videos showing how well you take care of your home even that one park where you had to trim the branches or you did can't remember because you didn't want it to get the roof scratched.. I could go on and on but yea GD would be barking up the wrong tree if they don't fix this for you without you spending a dime this is a total design flaw and once it's fixed well... We will talk about that later❤😮
X tie rods from side to side
I’ve had an Alpha Gold for 17 years with 300,000 miles and no problems. Grand design should step up and fix her products.
That's amazing! They sure don't build things the way they used to! And they definitely don't take care of customers like they used to!
I believe I've read they will want you to jump through hoops like getting it CAT scale weighed and attempt to prove you put too much weight for the frame at some point. Hopefully they don't, but if so, we should all join together and make a big stink. I'm in!
The good thing about having a RUclips channel as we have already documented our RV being weighed! It has actually been across the scales 6 times on this channel and every time it was under the GVWR of the trailer!
Sorry guys! If I only knew then what I'm learning now, I feel your pain. We have a 2021 Keystone #3781RL Montana 41' we bought it USED in October 2021, so we figured it was built in the fall of 2020 in the middle of the pandemic! So my point is the quality of the build and finish was terrible to begin with, we figured the person before us owned it for almost a year before we bought it from a Keystone dealer. Anyways, when we bought it, we had it towed about 150 miles (before we got our 22 F350) from Portland OR to the central coast Pacific City Thousand Trails (annual site) where we haven't pulled it since. But when it was moved to the coast, while setting it up we noticed mouldings detached, cracks in interior walls, wallpaper stretched at corners, the floor started to squeak in the bedroom and makes me think that the frame is twisted even though the 5th wheel is perfectly level (#3781RL front bed-rear living) we have moved the 5th wheel a couple times with in the park but didn't notice if when hooked up the floor still squeaked.
We were planning on retiring in Dec 2024 and pulling the 5th wheel to Texas where we plan on living in retirement. Now we are rethinking that part and selling before the move to TX. We feel the only positive is we bought it used and saved $40k. BTW KEYSTONE won't give us the time of day, because we aren't the original owners. In the future I would pay for a 3rd inspection, if we had we would have never bought this 5th wheel. We haven't had any major issues with the appliances. I will not buy a Keystone or 5th wheels from there parent company in the future! Best of luck.
That is awful!!! I would not want to tow that on the highway!! I would never by a GD after seeing all the problems people are having!
That's exactly our point! It doesn't need to be towed down the highway at 60+ mph. It weighs 20K! Can you imagine the devastation should it completely fail? Our lives and the lives of others is not worth that risk!
@PavingNewPaths right on Brother! Watching you latest video now.
I feel the stress so much for you guys when I watch this video. I really hope GD steps up and has a solution for you guys.
It's definitely a stressful situation we didn't sign up for! We hope they step up as well, but first impression says this is our issue and not theirs.
I think GD in company perspective really only is geared towards interior design-features. If the chassis and frame structure was of real quality, the company would be GE (Grand engineering) but it isn't
It would appear that the Grand Design isn’t very grand. I would expect engineering design defects. It is not capable of withstanding the vibration generated by normal road travel. Engineers have available excellent structural analysis software in the design process that would have prevented these problems. It would be interesting to know the manufacturers design and testing / validation process. But they certainly know how to make them pretty.
I was afraid this was what you were going to find. I hope GD takes care of it for you. Looking forward to see it get resolved and you guys getting back on the road.
We had been looking more since there are so many channels that have had this issue! We thought we were good, but that last move we noticed things changed! We hope GD helps but what we have learned is they don't help anyone with out lots of money involved!
Which puts y’all in a bad spot. I will pray for you to have miraculous repair so you can sell it in good faith. You are probably looking at a long repair time. As many followers that you have it would be nice if one manufacturers would partner with you and give a killer deal like JD got. Wink…wink.
@@PavingNewPaths Kevin, maybe, just maybe since you guys have a big following GD and/or Lippert may do something and help you guys out buy if not and you guys end up getting a new rig, you may want to talk to the guys over at Brinkley. Brinkley seems to be turning the RV Industry on it's head and manufacturing a better-quality product and when something does go awry, they are taking care of their customers.
What? R U kidding me? GD step up and take care of its customers? You must be living in the state of Denial. This is how the GD owners got so rich; by not taking care of its customers. Why would Grand Design stop lying to its customers now? Especially when the deceit and duplicity have put so much cash in their pockets. That dough is safely stashed away in a Cayman's secret bank account. It's in the vault right next to the Biden's hundreds of millions of dollars. I'm sorry, but good luck finding it.
Anyone who would by a north American rv would have rocks in their head. We have owned 8 of them over this past 40 years and without exception, all were low quality builds. Frame issues, water leaks, appliance issues, electrical problems with cheap inverters, and the list goes on.
It is unbelievable the total lack of care in assembly and design of these things. The manufacturers use "light weight" as an excuse to use sub standard materials, even down to using cheap plastic faucets and shower assemblies. I still don't understand why they can not make a roof that don't leak. I have seen many UHaul box trucks that are 30 years old with their roofs like the day it was made. Why can't this be used in the RV world? I know as a customer, I would gladly pay a premium for a product that I know I can trust while on the road.
Holy Cow!! Thats scary! I have to admire you guys! I wouldn't be able to make this video as I'd be a crying mess!!!
Thank you! We had to wait a few days to get ourselves composed to film this! We knew there was a problem, but once you measure it now you know there is a problem!
I am so sorry you guys are having these Issues. This is one of the Many Reasons I do no like Grand Design 5th wheels. Now the "Frame Flex" is not Just a Grand Design 5th Wheel Issue. But I have Noticed in the last 2 years Grand Design Quality on the actual Build is a DISASTER. This is why I personally do not sell them. I have had 27 of the Solitude, Reflection, and Momentums in for Frame Flex, Black Tank Replacement, Plumbing Problems.
Every Since Winnebago Bought them it has been 1 disaster after another. To get the ball rolling. Call Don Clark. He is the President of Grand Design still. Call him and email him 2-3 times a day. It is the only Way Grand Design will do anything to help. THEY WILL BLAME IT ON LIPPERT.
Thank you for your feedback on your experience selling these units! We are considering all options at this point but have zero confidence that GD could make this right or fix it properly.
That is a worst fear coming to Reality!!!
Just read about another GD owner with broken frame.
I have a 2021 GD Solitude and I am always monitoring the inside and outside after each trip. GD needs to step up and make this right for y'all and other owners who will experience this issue!!
Will be watching for part 2
You're right! We are living our worst nightmare dealing with this! It's something RV owners shouldn't even have to be concerned with! If they were built on sufficient frames, this wouldn't even be an issue! We've seen some Solitudes with frame issues in our research,so keep a close eye on it! We certainly hope you never have to experience this!
The flex on the pinbox, when you took the weight off the truck, was crazy. For me, that was the scariest part of this video. The pinbox and the surrounding frame should be the stongest part of the RV. I hope you guys can work with Grand Design to get it fixed. Love your videos. ❤
Yes! When you see it in real life it is pretty bad! When the trailer just keeps moving when it should have stopped!
Grand Design will just blame Lippert
@@jdfield6160 Lippert will just say they build to spec of what GD requested.
Don't waste your time with GD. Find a welding/fabrication shop and have them repair and reinforce the structure. I have been following several of you folks with this issue with Momentum rigs and its obvious that GD did a piss poor design. Another possible fix is contact Lippert directly about them repairing it. They are the ones that probably know what really needs to be done to fix and prevent further problems. Remember they only build what they are contracted to build and have no control what is done when a rig is actually built. I would also contact the federal govt listed in the owners manual as this is a safety issue.
Better to send it down the road to the scrap yard. Everyone who fixes one spot. Then another one shows up further down the frame. Seen to many of and people need to stop buying GD overpriced crap because they think there better quality🤦🏻♂️😂🤣 they just have a greedy company owner is all. Buy American made you get garbage for higher prices 💯
We have reached out to Lippert as well for assistance on this issue! We want to make sure we choose the right path! We have also talked to several that have gone through this already and after hearing the $ it takes to fix it we are not sure we will continue to throw money at this RV!
"they only build what they are contracted to build and have no control what is done when a rig is actually built" That is a huge cop out. This should not absolve them from any responsibility. Most suppliers are responsible enough to find out how their products are being used. If Lippert is actually that stupid, then they deserve criticism. It's just laziness by Lippert and the RV manufacturers and nobody is holding them accountable.
@@PavingNewPaths😊
This all comes down to who did the engineering on the design. If lippert engineered the frame based on the design requested by GD,then they could be the liable party, but if it was engineered by GD there is a good chance lippert was not aware of the complete design and where all of the stress points would be based on floor plan and weight distribution. Just watching this video I see there is allot of added stress on the weld joints on the riser portion of the frame due to the concentration of weight on the door side raised portion of the frame. That washer dryer combo alone is a few hundred pounds of load, not including the shock load it puts when bouncing down the road
OMG! … wow… here I’ve been watching all these videos and planning a move to FT living in an RV… trying to determine whether I want a class A or 5th wheel… settling on a 5th wheel (Brinkley) and then seeing this… where literally everything is falling apart. I sincerely feel for you both. Now I’m questioning everything. At minimum I will cross Grand Design off my list.
This isn't just a GD issue. The only way to guarantee not having an issue is don't buy any.
Good Luck on repairs and Positive Outcome!!
I’d agree, the Brinkley has shown high quality and strength. One clip noted it was only one that states bed can be used when slide is in. They’ve taken a long look at designs and created a strong unit and their frame build specs are focused at preventing problems.
They can all have problems, but the GD has many reporting frame problems, and many expressing poor factory support. Unlike DVR, etc… haven’t read or heard of frame issues.
Good luck with your decision! We've heard Brinkley has a more robust frame, but haven't verified that ourselves! Just know that most RV's sit on frames made by Lippert so it is important to know what frame your RV is sitting on. This is something we never considered when making our purchase, as we assumed the engineering behind the frames was sound!
@@PavingNewPaths I would have just assumed that also. Call me silly…. I guess. Thx for sharing this video. And keep us posted to how it gets resolved or… 😳
BTW… In Dallas here… where r u 2?
I live by the RV capital of the world, and my family has worked in the industry, I have made parts for the industry, the older fifth wheel trailers never had the problems like they do now, the problems start with the hitch, the older units sat on the hitch straight down, so all the weight forces were on a straight line, now they have to put on hitch extensions, now were the hitch mounts to the frame has a ton of twisting torque on it putting pressure on the whole front of the frame and by the frame mount, the only reason they changed is the trucks, it's so the trailer can be pulled with an 8 foot truck bed, also the walls help to support the frame and when you have a slide out on the sides it weakens the frame in a sense, I don't own an RV myself but knowing how they are put together and the peoples habits that build them I would build my own before buying one from a factory, my dad was also in the industry for probably 30 years and he also said that he would never buy a factory built RV, he knew too much about them.
It says a lot when someone who has been in the RV industry for any given amount of time won't buy a unit from the manufacturer! We wish they were still being built like they were 30 years ago!
The pictures of your wedding are adorable.
Thank you so much!
“My Bucket List Day” and "1StrangeAdventure" RUclipsr channels have the SAME ISSUES…. You might want to check the rear part interior of your rv too, " 1StrangeAdventure" had issues in that area also. So Sorry to hear about your RV issues. Hopefully GD steps up and takes care of the issues!
Since learning of our frame failure, we have been following along with several content creators' stories. It's disheartening, to say the least.
Multiple channels posting same info, not sure why you can’t seem to find it. I highly recommend you find the channel that took it to a independent RV repair place that specializes in frame repair. They have done hundreds of repairs and have come up with improvements to the frame to upgrade the poor design.
I highly recommend you do not use your manufacturer’s recommendations as numerous other videos show repairs failed shortly after. So if you have no warranty coverage or even if you do. Please do your research and find a independent repair facility that has previous repairs, well reviewed and has experience. Biggest think is improving the repair as clearly the frame design is inadequate for the load. And repairing the original design will continue to fail like many others have posted.
I wish you luck
Thanks! We've seen most of the videos out there and have a follow up video coming very soon!
😢I have nothing constructive to add. Just sorry this is happening to you guys and so many. We only use our Reflection about 8 weeks a year but I suspect we aren’t immune. We’re just so glad you and your littles got home safe 🙏🏼
Yes, the only positive is that we (or someone else on the road) weren't seriously injured or killed from the frame failure on our way home! We appreciate your sympathies! We thought this problem was only happening on triple axel toyhaulers, but we've since seen it on smaller units! We hope our experience is never yours!
This is the second video I watched this week of the same issues. The last video involved scrapping the trailer. Thank you for showing the bad with the good. Sorry for what is going on. I think the last trailer was also Grand Design if I remember correctly but it seems all the manufacturers are putting out garbage at a high price. They should be held accountable.
We have a follow up video about our situation and GD coming out next Sunday! We also believe they should be held accountable and at the very least people should stop buying their products!
With the fact that you’ve documented how much care you give to that RV, I’d say that you guys are the best candidates to force the manufacturer to fix this issue or give you a comparable RV to replace this defective one. I doubt that any other RV users that have this same issue have the documentation of maintenance & repairs that you guys have. Plus not to mention how many followers you have on your social media who would be watching for the outcome of any claim that you make.
Thank you! You operate from the same business model as us! Stay tuned for this Sunday's video for the latest update!
Hmmm….will wait to see what Grand Design says. I don’t know much about the “frame flex” issue. I do know, looking at your page and a few other videos that y’all seem to have nothing but problems, challenges and semi-disasters. It sure looks like you’ve got a problem with your “house.” I’ve always said that before buying a truck and 5th wheel/trailer, folks should consider if how many airline tix/car trips that money could buy - - and then decide if you want to put up with RV maintenance. Good luck!
@@brucewallace3860We have had our share of probelms with this rig but it appears worse because those videos are the ones that get the views! We have over 250 videos that have zero probelms, but youtube promotes the ones that get views, they just so happen to be the problem videos!
I just want to know how this turned out…. I know I’m late to 5he party but people should know there is a Grand Design “service Center” in Elkhart Indiana right across the street from the Alliance Factory. If I found this kind of stuff going on in my rig, I’d be heading directly to that service center and camping in their parking lot.
Grand Design refused to help unless we paid $25,000 so our RV went to RV heaven!
Hearing more and more about the Momentum and Solitudes with this problem. Grand Design needs to own up to this fiasco and have a complete recall or owners should organize and get a class action law suit going.
We agree!
Dang! I can only imagine how stressful and dissapointing this is! I'm looking forward to the Part II video to see what GD says and how serious this really is. The way it looks in the video, I'd be reluctant to tow it very far. Good luck, I'm sure you'll keep us posted.
It won't be towed at all until we find an acceptable resolution! Driving it 900 miles to GD isn't an option in the condition it is in, when it literally puts lives at risk! Something tells us there will be a part 2, 3 , 4 and 5 follow-up to this video! We are going to keep everyone in the loop with how this gets handled!
Ive dealt with Grand Design on a warranty claim, it wont be a pleasant experience. GD has the best combination of floor plan and decor on the market, IMO, and I will never purchase another of their or Winnebago's products.
This is my worst fear on our 2021 399TH. Our pin box right form day one sits on an angle up as your does while connected. Like yourselves we are second owners. I have had a couple of issues where I've reached out to GD and they were not only helpful but extended a customer appreciation warranty and sent us parts at no charge. But this frame flex thing is a much bigger issue. I have watched the channel my bucket list and what he has went through nobody should have to. Hopefully yours is not as big as his was, it would be life altering to say the least. Good luck and await the next video in the series.
We pray you never experience this nightmare! And we've been following along with his frame failure issues, which have been astonishing, to say the least! Keep a very close eye on everything, as our rig went from minor issues to major issues in a matter of two moves.
That scares the s%^t out of me.@@PavingNewPaths
Kevin I don't even want to say this word but I would think about consulting an attorney about this or at least a private investigator to see if this is a major problem with GD because of if is this is not just your home, your investment, your families safety at stake but GOD FORBID your traveling and something crazy pops off.. my prayers are with you and Felicia and the family❤
Thank you for your prayers and suggestions! At this point, we are considering every option!
Honestly I wouldn't expect anything but that coming from you!! You take pride in all you do and so does Felicia so this is stress y'all don't need❤🙏
I was wondering when this issue would show up for you all. I’ve watched a few other videos of people with a Grand Design 5th wheel, and there issue with them. As I see it now, I think that using them full time (moving more than once a month) they aren’t made for that!! Weekenders, once or twice a year users, that it!! Hope and pray that Grand Design will do something for you all. They have to know by now they have a problem with these units. Stay safe!!
... and hopefully GD does something for them because it's the right thing to do, not because they have a RUclips channel.
The fulltime use they advertise and sell these units as is why we have a GD! So using them for what they are made to be used for shouldn't have and asterisk about how much you can actually us it! We do agree if we never moved it we would have hardly any issues with the trailer! But we bought it to travel and see the USA!
Yes! Please film it from etart to finish. Thank you. Frame flex appears to be occurring on smaller RV's as well. Some manufacturers are blaming the RV owner when it's clearly frame flex or frame failure.
It's sad that the blame is being placed on paying customers!
Wow. As I have the 2022 version of your rig i immediately went and looked around in the bedroom. As far as I can tell everything still looks attached without gaps. I will need to check the hitch next time I hook up. Biggest difference in my rig is they moved the washer hookup to the middle right over the hitch. But yup I am now worried as I’ve heard too many stories. This is a time when I am glad I purchased the extended warranty. I live in mine full time as well but don’t travel nearly as much as you do. I am sure those roads in the northeast don’t do either of us any favors.
Same here. 2022 THS. We live in ours FT. I hate seeing this happen to anyone especially Kevin and his family. Truth of the matter is, these units are not designed to be moved every 3-4 days and travel 10k or like some channels up to 30k miles a year.
Good luck to you! We hope you never experience this nightmare!
If they aren't designed to move, stop putting tires on them! We move on average every 7-10 days, but have had months where it sat still!
I just bought a 2022 Forest River Cherokee Wolfpack 315pack12. Second owner on it and I did notice something funky about the molding on the front. They did address at the dealer and I did spend extra money for purchase an extensive warranty 7 year in fact. It was not cheap but I will be watching this. I had no idea wow. I hope you get the answers you need and I love your channel. Be safe in your travels.
I have the same WP toy hauler but it’s a 2021 . I had the trim on door side moving up front since it’s was brand new so I removed it and installed back and sealed it and it’s not moving now . I did do the frame flex measurements and pin box measurements and they were the same hitch up or unhitched.
@@josephwalker7646 That’s good to know. I’ve only had mine since thanksgiving
We sincerely hope you don't have to deal with this nightmare. Just be 100% sure what your extended warranty covers, as Lippert confirmed that the industry standard on frame warranties is one year from the date you take ownership.
Our trim coming out on the door side happened often and happened months before we started noticing the other issues. Keep an eye on it, for sure! We hope our experience is not yours!
When you replace your rig, look at Outdoors RV manufacturing. Their frames are custom and each design has its own specific frame. Four season, high quality, tough, RVs. Yes, you do pay for it, but I'm sure your GD wasn't inexpensive and it certainly wasn't a bargain, considering all this damage.
Thank you for that recommendation!
I was going to recommend the same. Also there is Outdoors sister company Northwood\Nash. Same deall with the frames.
I’m sure you know this by now but check out Jared from BTBRV Lippert factory interview. You will be educated 🇺🇸
@@mikeg1593 I did see it. Part 1 anyway. CX person was nervous as hell. Softball questions. JD is sponsored by Lippert. I don't trust him.
@@astrodb4487
I was impressed with the operation. I was an aerospace engineer for 40 years and although we’re talking apples to oranges, just the fact that they use cad design for their chassis, is impressive but it’s still the RV mfg that’s respectable for the species of the chassis and the bottom line is the “technicians” that assemble the coach for the consumer.
I have an Outdoor RV 5er and I’m looking every year for water intrusion. That concerns me the most🇺🇸
Dang! Just got my momentum 2020 398m out of the shop. Was in for 6 month with broken frame. Welds we’re broken and flex was severe when weight on pin. Grand Design and Lippert paid for repair. I hope it is really fixed. Huge repair.
It's just completely unacceptable that all these frames are breaking. And even more unacceptable that it took six months for repairs that may or may not hold! In a situation that is completely their fault, at least they didn't make you pay for their mistakes. Unfortunately, most others in your position can't say the same. We have an update coming this Sunday, so stay tuned!
I am so sorry to hear this, I hope you get everything resolved and are back on the road in no time.
Thank you! We appreciate your kind words!
This made us go out and look over our fifth wheel no problems at this time. But we will keep an eye on it thanks.
We are so glad to hear you are not experiencing these problems! Definitely keep an eye on it, as a whole host of issues popped up within our last two moves, quite rapidly!
Sad times 😢, I wish my fellow Texans the best of luck!
Very sad indeed! We appreciate your kind words of encouragement!
Where it all went wrong was when manufacturers discovered most TTs used to get used only a couple times a year, if at all, so they started building them weaker and cheaper than ever before because they thought noone would notice...but introduce the recent uptick in travelling rvers putting thousand of miles on their rigs and the flaws are becoming so much more glaringly obvious...and now its an epidemic.
Yes, you are right! They shouldn't be advertising them as fulltime rated, if they aren't, in fact, fulltime rated! And they should have beefier frames to handle the load on top of them.
I was at the Greenville RV show yesterday and I was looking at Brinkley. And that is what I am going with. I talked to thee Grand Design rep, I asked him about the frame issues and he assured me that the issue has been resolved. I don’t believe him. Brinkley is a much better built RV. Not that they are perfect as all RV’s will have issues especially if you are full time.But the frame is a critical failure and a huge safety issue. I hope you get it resolved, from what I am seeing GD has not had a good success rate on repairing the issue. Sorry y’all have to deal with this on top of everything else.
We'd love to know who you spoke with at the GD show! Seems that employee has admitted fault in their frame design, whereas other employees pass the buck and say things like "you're overweight"!
Just happen to have his card! Nic Minder. There are as you probably have seen some RUclipsrs that have been documenting their journey with them and they are under warranty. I was really considering a GD , but this is a deal killer for me. I don’t mind paying a little more for quality and good customer service.
Thank you! I think you'll have better peace of mind going with Brinkley and their more robust frame!
Who manufacturers Brinkleys frames?
@@EBKRV412 Lippert, but Lippert builds them to the manufacturers specs.
What amazes me the most is how much maintenance and care you do to your whole rig. Imagine if you were laxadasical on your care what might be. I feel so sad for your bride I can actually feel her sadness. Never expected that from Grand Design. I hope you do a video all through to the end. Praying for you guys
Thats the part that bothers us the most! We spend so much time and money taking care of the rig to avoid all these issues, only to still have major problems!
While the weight is on the truck, I'd tie a string from you two points that you are measuring, then lift the trailer off of the truck and see how much droop or sag is in each string. Great visual
Oh thats a great idea! Thanks for the recommendation!
@@PavingNewPaths I do it to mine once a year
Lippert builds all the frames, and this has been going on for years. This same thing happened to me. The rectangular tubing they use has a wall thickness of around .125. The front structure of the overhang is, to put it mildly, “under built.” This is why the front overhang framing cracks or breaks. You better lighten the front of your rig. Remove heavy items that like washer and dryer etc., before you have a catastrophic break of the overhang framework. I don’t believe this would happen if they would just buildout this frame area in the front, out to the pin box mount, using .250 wall thickness rectangular 2x4 steel tube. Just my .02
You're so right! It's completely under built and under engineered! We won't be moving it one-mile in its current condition!
So sorry this is happening to you.
My friends 351 did the same thing and it was broken/cracked welds in the frame of the front pylon area. The whole front had to be dismantled to get to the frame, weld repairs made and then reassemble the front.
Good luck!
It's unfortunate that it's happening on so many units! Glad to hear your friends got fixed!
@PavingNewPaths It really needs to be addressed by Grand Design. We have an Imagine 2970 and hope to upgrade to 5er so we can roam the US. I I really appreciate your channel.
After the last video, i was right about the frame issues. Im sorry you're having to go through this, and i hope GD or Lippert steps up to the plate and makes this right. Two years ago, we ordered a GD travel trailer TH and ended up backing out when we saw a few others online having issues with GD. We ended up going with an Outdoor RV coach based out of Oregon for our TH needed, and so far, it's been really good.
Good luck getting everything resolved.
Thank you for your sentiments and kind words! We are so glad you are happy with theRV you ended up choosing and haven't had any issues! Living this nightmare hasn't been setting we ever imagined we would be doing when we started our fulltime RV life!
I have the same EXACT issue on my 350G. It started out like you, molding pulling loose. Then, the last time we parked it (IN October) we saw a lot more damage. Did the same. Recorded hitching and un-hitching the rig. We opened a claim with GD. I have those videos private but will make them public now.
We'd love to know what GD said to you after opening a claim! You should absolutely make them public! GD seems to think these are isolated events, when I suspect there are a lot more RV's than they could ever imagine with the issue! Not everyone has a voice to speak out onto a public platform, so we want to be that voice, and make sure they hear us loud and clear!
They are available-One is a video and the other a short. Short really shows the damage. Which happens to be also our door side! @@PavingNewPaths
Sorry this is happening to the both of you. I have some friends that the back of their Montana. Was separating from the side wall. From the factory it had 7 screws holding it on. Not all the same size or length. Like you their rig is out of warranty. Placed adhesive where we could get it to go in. Then used a ratchet strap to pull it back together. Installed new larger and longer screws every 6 inches. Then replaced the sealant to make sure it was water tight. They have not had it on the road yet. To find out if it will hold. We wish the very best for upcoming repairs. Be safe and hope to meet around a campfire.
It's quite pathetic what the RV industry is getting away with. I hope their solution holds up for them!
So sorry for your troubles. Good news... this video will get record views
We are sorry, too! This isn't the kind of video we had hoped to make to get views! We hope everyone watches it though! Too many people are only concerned with an RV's bells and whistles, when we should be paying attention to the foundation the frame sits on! Substandard frame designs have now been exposed and need to stop being made!
I had a crack in the wall of my Rockwood under my bedroom slide. Rockwood was really good about fixing it. The frame wasn't cracked, but it was separating. They said the lag bolts had come loose under the bedroom onto the frame. I don't understand why they would use lag bolts with the flex of the trailer. Bolts with a nut only makes sense, it won't back out. Ther said my trailer was overweight.
The real problem is our highways suck, the frame should be made well enough to take that abuse from rough roads.. The trailer weight when full is also under rated.
They replaced my entire wall for free and it was out of warranty by one year.
That's great that they did right by you! It's what every manufacturer should do!
Oh my guys, so sorry all this is happening to y’all. I sure hope GD does right by you and it’s all fixable🤗
We are sorry this happened, too! We will keep everyone updated on the outcome of our discussions with GD!
GD Won't do a damn thing. They didn't do much for the one guy who was under warranty and he's still in a lurch with his rig. The manufacturers and stealerships don't give a rip after they make the sale.
Wow that is crazy how much the pin box moved when you put the weight on your truck.my friends fifth wheel frame was cracked where the pin box was attached to the frame.he had it fixed at a metal fabrication shop and they fixed it and he never had any more problems with it.good luck on your trailer
It looks worse in real life than the camera shows! We still need to get it inspected and find out just how much is broken or needs to be repaired!
Keystone Fuzion (my model) has a MASSIVE issue right now with a frame crack causing wall cracks under the bedroom drivers side slide, requiring HUGE repairs...glad you caught this now... great video, thanks for sharing..
I have learned so much about this issue now that we have it, and it's not just a GD issue it's an every trailer out there on a Lippert frame issue!
@@PavingNewPaths Yup, and I've had a gut full of the BS "oh it's to be expected, you take your house through a earthquake every time you move it".... at some point Lippert also has to say "Look Keystone, GD etc, your engineers have put too much weight on the frame your asking ujs to provide you, WE'RE not prepared to be defendends in a class action " and refuse to sell them the frames. The non stop passing the buck between dealer, manufacturer, vendor (like Lippert, Suburban, Dometic etc) has to stop it wastes months of time when doing warranty work and in situations like this. Glad GD is helping you, we'll see how far that hope goes.. fingers crossed. You did the right thing not being the first buyer, I'm always second as well, let others take the depreciation hit and get all the initial bugs worked out. Your Ford and this trailer are a GORGEOUS package, the colors is great. I'm looking for a 450 in the same colors to match my Fuzion so love all your videos, thanks again..
Thank you! We love our set up and we really hope this works out as we are not ready to stop traveling! But at some point you have to say I am done throwing money at this thing!
I’ve probably watched 5000 rv videos over the last 7 years and this is part of owning an rv. It doesn’t matter what brand you have I promise every brand has issues. I own a solitude and have for 5 years but I tell everybody I know that all rvs have potential of being one problem after the other
You are correct. It seems no one is safe from this based on the influx of emails we have received from owners across all manufacturers of RV's!
I’m praying for you that this will be an easy fix and that GD steps up to help guide you. I love your videos and your beautiful family!❤️🙏
We really appreciate your prayers. We will keep you updated every step of the way!
Oh no! Hope GD takes care of this problem and quickly. So sorry this is happening. But glad y’all are home when it did. Xoxo
We hope it works out for the best however it appears this is not going to be an easy or cheap fix!
You should measure to the FRONT of the box of the hitch box, not the rear. As the truck goes up the 5th wheel hitch starts to tilt and that makes the measurement look better because the rear is going down
The procedure we followed was from Lippert and this is how they determine if it has frame flex! There is some movement that is allowable, because being to stiff would cause other problems!
@@PavingNewPaths I understand they gave you that process, but sure to the hitch flex is hiding the flex. Hopefully it is unwillingly on their part, but real flex should be measured to a point without opposing flex. I believe that if you measured to the front of the pin box the flex would be over 1.5 inches. Weather they like to measure it like that or not, the real flex would be the average of both measurements. Even if its only for information purposes, could you measure it?
@james-rd4dq You can't get a straight line measurment with the tailgate in place! Also using a sting doesn't give you any actual measurement of what is happening! We are following the procedure given to us by lippert the frame manufacturer!
Wowza! So glad you made it back to Texas and aren’t stranded on the road somewhere. Hopefully GD comes through with a fix and stands by their product.
We are so thankful that we made it home in one piece, as well! And we will have follow-up videos regarding our interactions with GD and what the outcome is!
My thought is Lippert will have you jumping through hoops. Especially with the gen-y on there. If they can find a way to blame it, they will. Takes the pressure off of their weak frame builds.
Don't worry, they all say the frame is out of warranty after one year of taking ownership! So they don't even have to address the pin-box! Our rebuttal to the pin-box is, why are frames failing with stock/approved pin-boxes? If we were an isolated case, they might have a leg to stand on!
@@PavingNewPaths absolutely!!! I had this little fight with our manufacturer as well. I think it’s trash. Seems there are a lot of GD having these issues
Hey guys, welcome to the club. I have a 376TH and the Frame Flex is getting corrected right now, North Texas area. 1/2” is considered pretty bad. I am also a second owner, I purchased it about 6 months after original purchased date. The answers came back 1-4-24 from GDRV, they will not assist and Lippert will not assist. Multiple welds broken and gusset plates are too thin and too small. Welds do not look as though they is enough penetration with heat. Also, front internal frame structure has broken welds, the Lag bolts are loose and broken.
I don’t get GDRV not assisting second owners, we still own their product and it make us think twice before purchasing anymore of their products or promoting the products. About 10k repair.
Good luck,
We are so sorry to hear you experienced this nightmare, too! Do you mind shooting us the info on the shop fixing your rig, either on Facebook Messenger or our email hello@pavingnewpaths.com We don't feel great about letting GD fix the issue since it wasn't done correctly the first time, plus it's over 900 miles to get it there! We wouldn't even drive it one-mile in the condition it's in now.
@@PavingNewPaths I can also tell you where to see the cracks in the welds.
Why do so many RUclipsrs buy Grand Design when it’s widely know about major problems like broken frames?! Look into Northwood Manufacturing (Arctic Fox, Desert Fox, Outdoors RV, Nash etc.)with their off-road chassis and all weather design.
We have an Arctic Fox and we don't regret that decision at all. We live in PA and they aren't easily found on the East coast. We bought our in Spokane after taking a factory tour in Oregon. In March it turns 10 and it's been 100% problem free.
I think when the majority of people decided to purchase a GD, there wasn't a widespread problem with their units at the time. We've had the unit three years, and the previous owner had it about six months. When we looked into the RV lifestyle, we looked for units that were fulltime rated, as this would be our fulltime home. Never dis we think we would have to question the integrity of the frame the unit sits on. We live amd learn and hope our video sheds some light onto a problem within the RV industry, as it isn't just one specific brand or model that is having frame failures.
I hate for the day to come, but the documented cases of frame flex, it's just a matter of time until someone has the whole front frame break loose and rip the front off the trailer, and the rest of the rig goes for a ride on its own.
I guess they will find out if the break-away function works. If when the front end rips off it doesn't rip out hydraulics.
God bless ya'll and everyone else going through this. I pray when the inevitable happens, no one dies.
Ya'll stay safe until you get this problem resolved.
This is precisely why we are so passionate to share our story and get the word out about these inadequate frames. It's only a matter of time before someone is seriously injured or killed when a frame breaks going down the highway at 60+ mph. You'd think the manufacturers would be proactive in their approach to fixing this known issue so a loss of life or serious injury doesn't have to occur, but it seems they are taking a reactive approach. I pray every night that this get resolved before such an event occurs.
We have a 2021 397TH. We have similar interior signs of flex such as above the door side closet(including wallpaper creasing), the creaking floor, the top step wallpaper creasing and noise when setting weight onto tow vehicle.
We are F/T too so curious how your interaction with GD will go. I found spider cracks on the front cap I believe to be associated. Contacted GD about that in Feb 2023 and have never heard back.
Message us if you'd like the contact names of the people we have dealt with. Although you shouldn't expect much help! Especially if you have taken ownership over a year ago. Frames are only in warranty for one year from the date of pickup. Our problems started small just like yours, but it didn't take long to fully escalate into what we showed today.
I thought there is a 3 yr frame warranty on these not 1yr. Am I missing something? The sticker on the side of my main entry door reads 3 yrs.
I would appreciate any POC and contact info you can provide.
I've also read elsewhere that 0.5" flex was within limits as per Lippert. Hopefully that is accurate, but walls not being connected etc. is a prelude to more issues I'm sure.
@@AZFunSeeker You will find the things they sold you based on coverage are. ot true when you need them! we were told one year by GD and lippert! Even if it was 3 year we would still be out!
I watched a videos long while back of a grand design at a grand design meet where they hitched up and seen the flex. Come to find out the frame welds had broke. Grand design actually sent out a welder to temp fix so it could be moved to get permanent fix. Good luck enjoy your travels and videos
You would think they would offer that to everyone! But asking someone to take a compromised rig to a dealer for inspection, you've asked too much. We will not take responsibility should we have a catastrophic event while following your instructions to drive it with an obvious frame failure. That is just crazy!
Saw "less junk" go through this and this would explain your slide issue ? GD seems to back their issues for content creators , hope this holds true.
Yes content creators they seem to take care of because they don’t want their name to be shamed on RUclips
Seems too many content creators have contacted them as of late! We will have a follow-up video coming soon! Bottom line is, content creator or not, they should absolutely be fixing every single insufficient frame they sold to unaware customers! It's a huge safety concern, and they shouldn't wait until there is blood on their hands to make the products they sold sufficient.
@@PavingNewPaths !00% they should be fixing this across the board. Not sure if you have see what Geoff over on "My Bucket List Day" is going thru with his busted frame but it seems like a nightmare....
We have a 2017 Jayco Pinnacle 36kpts. Jayco's are known for the crack on the bedroom slide. After our dealer Pharr rv failing to fix it twice. Jayco sent us to Vogt Rv in Fort Worth Tx to fix the frame and fiberglass issue. We have been happy with the work Vogt did and have not had issues. Jayco sent factory reps to train Vogt how to do the repairs. Hope Grand Design helps. We did not have issues until we added our generator and we do not have a washer and dryer. I question if the weight of the generator was our cause. Was never given and answer. Also we are not full timers.
Thanks for sharing your experience! We are glad to see your issues got resolved! It's unsettling not knowing what caused the issue in the first place because you have no reference on how to prevent it in the future!
Call Affinity RV Group in Goshen Indiana. Speak with April. They are highly recommended and do an excellent job when it comes to this issue.
Thank you!
@@PavingNewPaths Affinity is certainly the place to have this addressed. They have a long wait time to get in, but there's always a possibility of someone cancelling and a spot freeing up. Best of luck, just went through this with a Montana.
Not saying you don’t have a cracked frame but yes a gooseneck style frame hitch will “flex” and a half inch isn’t crazy but the concerning thing is one side if deflecting more then the other. But it’s almost impossible to inspect/repair with all the covers on. Which is a big pain to take off and reinstall.
Yes, there is an allowable flex given by the manufacturer in regard to the frame. That is why they had us perform the flex test, because anything over an approved amount, is too much. It will be interesting to see just how broken it is when the filon is removed for inspection!
I am so sorry! We are currently considering a Brinkley because the frame is hopefully better
I hope the Brinkley frames hold up! They are supposed to be more robust!
Also look at DRV Mobile Suites. They pride themselves on having one of the strong frames in the industry. DRV supports the ability to raise the complete rig off the ground with the jacks and the hitch is rated for 5k lb towing capacity.
@@JeffBush1 You would be surprised to know we have learned of many DRV owners who have this same problem!
To many of these issues surfacing. I've heard that even Grand Design's fix isn't that great. If you have to pay for it, I would remove the filon and take it to a certified welder. Add crossmembers and gussets. Grind out and redo broken welds. I wouldn't feel good about hauling it back to GD from Texas as is, especially if the extra inside movement / damage won't be covered.
We wouldn't move it one-mile in its current condition, much less the 900+ miles to Indiana. And why would we trust the company that engineered a subpar frame to "fix" it correctly the second time around? If we have to pay for it, we won't be taking it to Grand Design!
If the bottom of the trailer is loose the lower measuring point is moving toward your truck when you put trailer weight on the nose of the trailer. So it is moving more than 1/2”. Can you see movement of your roof?
We know this is a rough way to measure the correct way is from the I beam to the pinbox corner mount! But the fact that it did move 1/2 inch this way means it is a big deal!
Sorry to hear you are having problems! Many others have had broken frames in fifth wheels too. Some get welded and gussets added, some are totaled. This is an insurance claim. Best wishes, Kevin. Not coming back.
Yes, many others are having this exact issue. And that's just who we know about from social media. We suspect there are droves more who don't have a social media presence to voice their experience. Insurance should deny these claims and hold the manufacturers responsible for their inadequate frames. Unsure what you mean about not coming back, but thanks for the well wishes!
We have a 2018 class A that we lovingly call our rolling hurricane. 😊
RV's are the gift that keep on giving!
I feel your pain. Sadly I had a new 2019 Grand Design Reflection back in 2018. It was worthless. You have a broken frame. It’s from inferior structural design. For all practical purposes, your rig is totaled. This is a known issue. Your best option is to get an attorney and litigate this in court. Good luck.
We are sorry to hear that you, too, had problems with your RV. It's quite sickening just how many people have reached out to us with similar problems, yet GD acts as if this is the first they've heard of their frames being under engineered. We have a follow up video coming soon, but as expected, GD's response to our call for help, was pitiful, at best.
I am so sorry you are going through third. 1 Strange Adventure just went through this with GD. We are having different issues with our rig. It is a Dutchmen Voltage toyhauler that has a midbunk as well. Our living room slide floor seperated from the wall. Needed to be rebuilt. Now it looks like our kitchen and other 2 slides are having issues as well. We are waiting on approval to get these redone as well.
Thank you for your sentiments. We've seen the problems from 1 Strange Adventure and many others in the RUclips world. Sorry to hear you are having issues. If you've watched our channel before, you may remember our living room slide has had issues three times now. We suspect it is from the frame failure, but at the time, chalked it up to being used so much. We have a great repair shop in Memphis if you need a recommendation!
@PavingNewPaths thank you so much!! We have found a great repair shop here in SC. We are presently stuck here until we can get the repairs done
I just watched this and am heartbroken for you and all the other people who have Grand-designs. I have seen this on allot of other channels and I’m quite surprised they are still in business!! I have not heard of one case where the poor owner one.
People put their live savings into this RV. And as you said, more importantly, it’s your home!! You have no 1st home to retreat too.
I have no idea what it cost to repair!! 😢😢😢😢😢😢
This seems to be happening amongst brands that use Lippert frames. There are so many nightmare stories like this in the Keystone community as well. Look up Affinity RV in Goahen Indiana, they deal with these regularly.
The problem we have with all of this is we shouldn't have to take it somewhere to have it repaired! When the welds and frame break Grand Design should stand behind their product and fix it! Not leave the owners to figure it out for themselves!
I completely agree with you and I hope they cover it. I’ve been following this issue as I have a second hand Montana. I’ve heard good things about Affinity RV and they work with manufacturers regularly on this problem with fast turn around times. Best of luck.
-25 years old strong i-beams under a good cross but remember RVs were not meant to they're supposed to be recreational but we think we could drive them all the country and abuse them with the roads that they are carried down and they do have to go through a lot of abuse if you pair with a frame looks like to what a fifth wheel truck frame looks like you'll see quite a just cuz you spend a lot of money on a camper does that mean you're getting a better believe me I have found this out I have flipped a few as far as I found that the slide outs work best with hydraulics I've also found that hydraulic lifts the level the campers cause a lot of problems because they twist they're not on the center of the frame they're on the side think about a gooseneck trailer and you build a house on it that's basically what except that gooseneck trailer has a better frame to it than what your believe it when you go to look at you said
You make some great points! Thanks!
Sorry to hear about this design flaw…I live vicariously through your family travels and have come to realize that although I yearn for that open road and RV lifestyle, my skill set and bank account are not up to these challenges
I know that you and Alicia will make the best decision for your family and finances and will continue to pray for health, happiness and joy for your family😊🙏❤️
We appreciate your thoughtfulness as we navigate these tough times and decisions! We never expected this lifestyle to cost what it does but are glad we could shed some light into the true costs for those interested in RV life.
OMG! I'm so very sorry. I will definitely pray for all of you. 😢
Thank you so much for your sentiments and prayers. They are very much appreciated!
Well, that really sucks. Thank god nothing major while traveling with family. Hopefully you will have better luck since you have a you tube channel. Good luck
I have found out having a RUclips channel is hurting me on GD wanting to help!
I can see that to. Many more eyes that would potentially cause a lose in sales.i am with a lot of others, class action or individual lawsuits.
@@musimowingmoreinc9031 I tried to help GD see the positive in letting us film this and them helping us! Since we are not brand ambassadors or a paid influencer for them! It basically closed all doors for us
I know on our new reflection we bought last year they were not helpful with on demand water heater. They sold us a 4 season camper but water heater was suppose to be winterized at 39 degrees. How do you use water if winterized at 39 degrees. Was told i could boil water on stove by cs rep. I said NO F'IN WAY. Then they proceeded to tell me about a controller for the water heater. It has since been retrofitted via dealer paying for it. If not, i would have filed a lawsuit for mis representation of good sold and made them replace.
I am sorry to see what happened to you ! I hope the Grand Design or Lippert stands behind it Please keep us posted I have a Grand Design 5th wheel as wheel and I would hope they stand behind the problem and take care of it for you !
Thank you for your sentiments! We will certainly be doing follow-up videos with our interactions with GD, Lippert and if necessary, our insurance company. Stay tuned!
Yes I have seen the same problem on my bucket list day with Geoff ( U tube )
We have been following his story and we can confirm a lot of the things he said about GD are true, at least that is the way they have been treating us!
You're taking this way better than I would. I'm waiting for "the other RUclips couple" to find out their toy hauler is flexible too. Good luck with that, I hope you can find a solution.
It took us a few days to decompress from our last two travel days before we could make this video. We were trying to stay as positive as possible when filming, as we aren't experts in this, but at times, it was difficult since it's quite obvious there are major issues.
I have a 2022 Grand Design Transcend that the floor is moving, dinette moves when driving, cracked wood, and when walking on the floor it creaks real bad. Need to have it looked at once winter is done.
Absolutely have it looked at before you move it again! Your problems sound very familiar to ours. We thought this was a toyhauler/triple axel issue, but the more we researched, we've found Solitudes having the issue and other smaller units. We sincerely hope yours is not frame failure, as it is a nightmare you don't want to experience!
Hi I watch a lot of your videos. I know of another rvr and he's having the deal with Grand design. His RUclips channel is my bucket list bay. I hope you have better luck with Grand design and what he did. Love your channel.
Thank you for your kind words regarding our channel! We appreciate you following along with our journey! We've been researching other owners with frame failures and have been following along with this channel!
I am really sorry to see this happen. I wonder if once you get this repaired or invest in a new unit, investing in a Morryde independent suspension would help. It seems it would take a lot of the shock out of it when traveling.
It is unfortunate that it happened! We have been in contact with several owners who have been through this and quite a few of them had the Morryde IS and the frame still broke!
I had this very thing a year ago on the road in Florida. It started with the same issues inside, trim and cabinet issues. Turned into busted frame and the trailer down to about 1-2” above the rail of my truck. I was way beyond warranty at the time, and I had no faith in Keystone to help. Once I found the crack I found a local mobile welder and he repaired for under 1k. I needed to remove the filon and all the trim which is a huge pain. I have pics to show what was done if you’re interested. Definitely have it repaired before you hit the road again.
That's sad and scary! It's ridiculous that manufacturers are getting away with this! We won't be pulling it one-mile without something being done first! There's too much liability in doing so, and we all know the manufacturer won't accept responsibility for that liability.
At least GD is working with you. Have you checked with your insurance company on repair coverage once a solution has been determined?
Because this is our home and we don't have a house outside of this, insurance presents its own challenges at this point!
@@PavingNewPaths that’s kinda what I was thinking.
Insurance will not cover it
@@waltfriedrich7631 This is our home! If they decide to total it we are homeless! So we have to weigh all options before making this decision!
I understand but they will not treat this the same as a sticks and bricks home. Like others have said get it repaired and dump it because it will happen again since the original design was bad. Having been a rep in the industry I know what happens and what to look for. We have been considering our first 5th wheel ( after 6 travel trailers since 1985) and we are pretty sure it will be a Brinkley. FWIW... In the past Montana had these same issues and finally designed the frame to last. Its all about the profit on each unit and the push to keep making things lighter because people don't want to invest in good tow vehicle. If you lighten thing up too much you leave room for failure.@@PavingNewPaths
Normally body panels are removed to measure like you said. All welds are also checked at the time of measuring. If found to be bad (which yours should be) the front neck frame is plated and reinforced. We had ours done, thankfully under warranty
We assumed GD would offer to send someone out to remove the filon and do just as you expected. Shame on us for assuming anything! Instead, they'd rather us drive a 20K lbs. rig to an authorized dealership for inspection. No, thank you! We are glad you got yours fixed properly!
@PavingNewPaths yeah being out of warranty and fill time camper they tend to not care about customer. Ours only got fixed cause we chased them for 6 months and it was known problem with that model. It spent more time in shop then we had it for first year. 3 furnaces, 2 ac units, 2 water selection valves that flooded camper, leaking roof, slides extending while operating legs, batteries only lasting couple hours, solar chargr controller melted due to being too small, and the next breaking so bad it cracked side exterior wall of camper
@PavingNewPaths plus it's GD. The dealer I bought from damaged my camper in their yard and they tried to push it through as warranty but GD caught on. Then when thay camper was in for repairs the dealer "lost" it right out of their shop. They told me that was forth camper so far that year (was in August) that they had "lost" out of their shop. Neither dealer or GD would do anything to help me out. Only thing I ever got out of GD was a set of springs that I had to change myself because they put wring axles and springs under my camper. They never did come good for axles. And all this was under warranty as camper was "lost" before warranty expired
I'm guessing since your the 2nd owner it's probably 4 or 5 years old
People on social media full time rv people newbies everyone that has bought a grand design rv 5th wheel trailer there thinking since at least COVID hit
They are all complaining of the same issues
It will Cost a lot of money to fix all of the problems on this rv
I was hoping the these problems would pass by you guys
Good luck
You are correct it was built in 2019 and the original owner picked it up in 2019! We got it in 2020 and if you have been following along you know we have gone thorough our share of issues, but for the most part they have been minor and a result of the way we travel! This however is not minor and we are not sure what our next step is yet!
Oh man, now I’m wanting to check our 2017 399th. Our son is living in it until this summer, so may have to run down to Georgia and hook it up to see what we see… thank you for the step by step. You guys are awesome
You're welcome! We hope your 399 is ok! This isn't something anyone should have to go through!
"My Bucket List Day" had frame broken in 17 places and is a good one to watch to see many of the same issues on their Grand Design frame.
We've followed along with his issues since learning of ours. 17 broken welds is completely umacceptable; heck, one broken weld is actually completely unacceptable!
We have a 2022 397th Momentum. We had it about 6 months. Had to have the off door side basement door replaced because it bowed. Would not close. Off door side hydraulic leg would not hold its position. That got replaced. But the door side leg is at an angle. Was told that is normal. So the new one is straight. The other is still at an angle. The front door is hard to open, and now both basement doors are bowed. Plus, the bedroom floor squeaks.our longest trip was from Caldwell, ID to Creede, CO. Taken it to Libby, MT, and Eastern Washington. We haven't talked to GD yet. I watch 1 Strange Adventure on RUclips. They had a frame flex. They also installed Sumo Springs. GD said that was the cause. Switch It Up has flex and Sumo Springs. We were gonna get some Sumo Springs. Glad we haven't. 😢
So sorry to hear of your troubles. It seems they will say anything and blame anything to take the blame off of their design flaw. We do not have Sumo Springs, by the way.
Sumo springs are not really springs they are more like bump stops. There are videos out there that show how they crush the frame. If they can crush the frame they are putting stress on the entire frame. If you're smart don't get them.
@@waltfriedrich7631 We almost got them until we saw videos showing the damage they were causing to other RV'S!
Well scratch one MFG off my list of options. Wonder if the build on the side with the W/D isn't as robust as it needs to be to hold that extra condensed weight. Also might not consider a w/d in an rv. won't change much because later this morning dad and I have to go do laundry at the laundry mat.
Unfortunately, pretty much all of them use Lippert frames so it could happen to any of those brands.
We considered that as well but the bed and slide is on the opposite side and the generator is also on the opposite side! So there is way more weight on the side that isn't broken than the side that is!
@@PavingNewPaths maybe more weight, but that w/d is more concentrated on one small square. I am using my history with home w/d so perhaps i am overthinking how much a w/d in an rv weighs.
Either way, it sucks and i am sad you have to go through this.
@@notfromaroundhere Lippert makes frames to the specs that the manufacturer provides. It's the manufacturers, who are overloading the frames, that cause this mess. They don't want to pay for a more robust frame.
@@M.Campbell I understand that, but if you run a business that builds a widget that fails, you still have a piece of the responsibility.
Wow guys, so sorry this is happening to you. Hopefully Grand Design will help you out and get this fixed. Good luck
Looks like we will need your luck! We are sorry this is happening, too! But, we feel the need to share this negative experience so others can be warned.
Minus all these problems, those wedding pic are NICE! 🎊
You are so kind! Thank you!
We ordered Wildcat Sterling from the factory. It was a awesome fifth wheel, it had a fireplace in the bedroom. It had windows all around the camper. I ordered the camper from the factory just the way I wanted it. We went to the factory in Elkhart IN and took a tour of them making a Wildcat Sterling. We got the camper home and after a few trips the frame started to separate from the camper. We took the camper back to the dealership with 3 pages of problems. The dealership kept the camper for a month. We got the camper back and found out the camper was worse off. We were going to Yellowstone and we couldn’t depend on that camper so we traded for a Cedar Creek. We got a email from the couple that bought the camper and wanted to know why we would trade in such a beautiful camper. They parked the camper in one spot and never moved it. The Cedar Creek has been great, not without problems, 10 we have had the camper and probably a hundred thousand miles or more
The momentum are having major frame issues more ride needs to step up and fix them. We were thinking about buying a brand new one, but we put everything on hold
I would strongly consider looking into how the RV is built and what frame it is built on before making a purchase! We have a totally different outlook on RV's and the traveling fulltime lifestyle now!
@@PavingNewPaths going to retire here in three years we were going to travel everywhere. I was looking forward to it still gonna do it. We were looking at the momentum 376 the small garage to put the bike in the back.
@@gregmonhollen4327 I am ok with most of the probelms we have had as they are a result if the way we travel! But when the frame has issues thats unacceptable!
@@PavingNewPaths exactly I live in Michigan and our roads are not the smoothest you seen that lol
Here is the condensed version of our frame issue.
2021 brand new keystone cougar 368mbi. Bought brand new and went on a long trip. At the end of the trip the off door outside wall split down the side. Camping world did all measurements and communicated with keystone. Keystone took camper from syracuse ny to Indiana at their expense. Ripped front cap and whole off door side completely off. Fixed frame and replaced whole sidewall. Also all corresponding damage inside. Difference between us and yours is ours was under warranty. Didn't cost us a cent. They shipped camper back to syracuse and so far it's fine. Keystone was very informative keeping us informed about progress etc. Repair took about 4 months. Good luck. Hope things work out for you.
We are glad to hear there are stories out there where the customer was treated fairly!