Subjectively I prefer the classic controls because I'm a fightstick-using purist. But honestly? The game was clearly designed with modern controls in mind because the idea/hope was for SF6 to bring the franchise back into the mainstream after the bad PR of 5. And fair play to Capcom, it worked! SF6 is REALLY popular among a pretty wise audience right now
I play classic control, but i cant enjoy when i see some bum doing super as "1 button" input instead 5 buttons. They must nerf modern somehow. Atlest they should remove ability to use classic inputs in modern control
Oh god, please yes. The “casualization” of Max’s channel has pushed me away for years now. Where as his deeper stuff is what caused me to push ‘subscribe’ in the first place.
@@arcadetheorygaming5287same on the deeper dives making me subscribe, and I’m fairly new to the channel. It was his retrospective type videos I stumbled on that made me really dig the content. But now I’ll just take Max talking about whatever tbh lol
@@arcadetheorygaming5287Those are the ones that will keep me here, but it's a fighting game channel, silly fun is part of what makes this channel cool.
Modern controls *and Cammy* helped me get into SF, now I'm learning classic and SF6 is easily one of my favorite fighting games, Capcom did well catering to beginners.
Boom, there it is. The intended purpose of Modern controls. It's the gateway that gets new players interested in learning the game at a deeper level. I don't use Modern myself, but I'll sing its praises to anyone who will listen. It's a huge reason Street Fighter 6 has sold so many copies, and that's a good thing.
One thing I feel that Modern controls contributes to strongly is reducing the 'mental stack'. The controls certainly won't make you good at the game on their own, but it does free up an enormous amount of mental energy and physical effort to be put to the actual situations and flow of a match instead. It's one less thing to think of, and that can be a big thing for some people, me included. Fantastic discussion!
I couldn't agree more! While I was playing SFV the majority of my thoughts were if I could actually execute the move I was going for correctly, which I couldn't, so I would fumble the move and get obliterated. Modern controls allow you to bypass this and focus on what you're going to do next, rather than stressing about your inputs, which makes the game infinitely more enjoyable for me
My wife only has one hand because her dominant hand was amputated. For her, accessibility in videogames is paramount for obvious reasons. One of the problems with fighting games in particular is that classic controls severely hinder her ability to even participate in playing the game. Modern controls open the possibility of her potentially participating. She has similar problems with right stick camera control in games that do not have accessibility options with auto camera follow and lock on. Accessibility in videogames only benefits the industry as a whole because it means more people can participate.
This is fine, but they should be removed for ranked play. You can’t really make the case that it’s wrong for a game to require certain skills, or “abilities” if you will, because that is the very basis of competition as a concept, which is the very core of versus games. I’m glad your wife gets to enjoy the game, but if it compromises the quality of high-level play that’s a problem.
@@PetterNeI'm gonna keep it real I don't think you're at a level that matters, in master I've maybe seen 3 modern players so not it doesnt compromise competitive play you just need to get good
If modern controls makes new Street Fighter fans I am all for it. I want Street Fighter 6 to be as successful as possible so it can fund other Capcom projects.
Monster hunter already exists, and SF5 sold very well despite having such a rocky launch and reputation. It doesn't need to pander that hard to newcomers.
I'd even add that Modern controls can help alleviate the decision making during a match because you don't have to think too much about motions anymore, leaving more brain power into learning the fundamentals of your character and reaction properly to your opponent.
That's the exact point of modern controls. I play on classic, was struggling to learn chun but then I realized i wasn't playing the game, I was trying to do the cool combos I labed. A complete novice will never realize by himself, and would drop the game
It depends on how you play. Sure when I pick up classic controls, it took a decent amount of time to be able to use them without thinking but that’s like, not even an issue. If you play consistently, you’ll be able to pull off combos and the characters specials without thinking too hard as is. And with the classic controls being as easy as they are, its less of a hassle to memorize than ever before while still having access to the characters full kit. If you are comparing the controls to snk, then yea modern controls are best for us casuals.
This is true. I got whuped by a modern zangief the other day, and while the ability to do easy sbd etc did probably help him, the reality was that I just had bad fundamental play against a grappler. I was playing Ryu so he's got several options to deal with grapplers and I just wasnt using them. Did I lose because he was on modern controls? Probably. Is that really the problem here? No. Just need to learn to deal with Gief better.
Fun Story: I was in battle hub a few days ago and I went against a guy using Classic Controls. They were great but I barely squeaked out a win against them. They immediately left the cabinet, hopped in chat and told me I was reported for using Modern. They left before I could respond with a
how can they report you for using something built into the game? do they just lie and say you said something racist instead? either way that is funny and a little sad. actually have a similar story about just barely beating someone in MKX and they immediately called me a bad word for homosexuals, so i reported them. some people just got really fragile egos, hence why i mainly stick to single player in fighting games.
I don't play Fighting games often, but they're always something I want to get into. I've been playing SF6 on Modern Controls because I tend to get a little overwhelmed with classic controls at time, But it doesn't stop me from learning more on feeling comfortable with classic controls. I like to believe that the game can be played either way, Modern or Classic. I always see so many people attacking each other over the way people play when it comes to those 2 choices. SF6 is the most I've played of a fighting game in years, I'm glad that Modern was introduced.
If You want to be a competitive player You need Classic controls. Classic controls make you to understand the real science behind This Game. Classic controls offer better ways to connect successfully better attacks. Modern controls are for people who like This Game but don't have enough patience to learn command moves or manual combos. I play Street Fighter since Street Fighter 2 When I was 12 years old. Now I'm 36 years old
I tried modern and classic and I found that while playing classic I focused so much on trying to nail execution that I would get caught out by simple things. Like I was always looking for the situation that would allow me to use the combo that I knew I could execute, so I missed everything else. I tried modern controls, and my brain did a weird thing. I started analyzing the flow of the match and taking in all the information and deciding what to do with it. Instead of looking for the thing I wanted to see, I started looking at everything and seeing what I could do with it. The 'Aha!' moment was such a simple thing to, I have a combo that I like where I start by dashing in. Some guy DESTROYED me cause I kept trying to do the thing I knew I could execute, and he would just jab check me every time. After I started using modern controls I SAW what he was doing, and I adapted to that by tapping forward to fake a dash, get him to whiff a jab, then go in for the punish. Instead of just trying to force what I wanted to happen, I saw what WAS and changed according to THAT. It was almost magical.
@@LucasSantos-yh1mi Your statement makes no sense. Unfair would imply I am doing something that other people can't also do if they choose. The only limitations my opponent have are ones they apply to themselves. Technically, you handicap yourself by using modern controls since you do less damage and lose half your move-set. If you are getting beat by someone whose damaged is nerfed and half their options are missing, then I'm afraid it isn't the control scheme to blame for your L.
@@MagiRaz That's not how it works in lower ranks. Dropping combos, getting worried about technical stuff IS PART of the game. When you skip that part and just go ranked playing someone trying to learn you do make the game frustrating to this player. You never drop a combo. Always confirm into CA. Cross DP, dp anti air, CA in one button and the list goes on and on. You do less damage and lose some buttons but that's minor in lower ranks. As you said, you can think about other things as you won't have any button commitment to think of. I'm currently on diamond and there's a few modern players and I normally, not always, beat them. But in lower ranks is completely unfair
I really agree with the sentiment of "I use stick because I like the motion of it." Personally I would not play fighting games nearly as much without it. I feel like I'm finessing a mech and it just feels so good when I'm in the zone and the inputs are just right. Like you can *feel* how good your inputs are, and to me, that's the dopamine hose.
Aaaaan then your TE2+ up an' breaks right before a big touunament. o.o An' you find out that Mad Catz is outta business now. An' so you have to use a pad. An'.....
I'm the opposite. I hated motion, but the fact that they let you use lever less is what makes me stick around. I remember I tried SFV and they made it a nightmare to try and remap keyboard, so I tried controller, and I ended up hating the game. SF6 has treated me so much better-
Yeah I've tried a hitbox and I know it's objectively the better control scheme but something about stick feels more fun to use. And honestly, if I'm playing a game that's what I want most right?
There's a review of an early fps, that bitches hard about the insane control scheme of right stick moving camera, left stick moving you around. Says it all, IMHO.
I think this is quite the strawman argument Max... I am shit at Street Fighter, I will say this easily. I am low rank. I don't think being able to pull of hadokens makes you good. But for example I cannot pull of supers consistently as a combo ender within a match. Or hell even raw supers. In training mode I have no issue. Ultimately part of this game is learning how to pull of these things like hit-confirms, consistent anti-airs, buffering SPDs, supers, all of this under pressure. This may be the easy part of SF for high level players, I get that. But this is a bit of an elitist view when 90% of the playerbase still struggles with these things. Ultimately in a game where reaction time matters (on the granular level of literal frame by frame) , having an instant input of DP is a huge bonus. I don't know how anyone can deny that. Max already said himself that he cannot antiair consistently in this game because there is so many things to anticipate including the DI for example. Ultimately you are dividing the player base and changing the level playing field. You make them play by different rules. That is no go in any competitive game, since it will leave a bitter taste in the mouth of any beginning player. It seems to me that most experienced SF players are okay with this because there is this "oh please give us more players" mentality that dominates every conversation around this topic. A level playing field is integral. I mean it's also not level for modern players. They do less damage. That's imo bad fricking design. People will get bitter. When you think of all the new players modern brings, you gotta think of all the new players who are turned off by the game who wanna play classic but are jus frustrated as well. That's also part of the equation and toxic to the game's health.
This is the best comment. It's clear Max made a strawman on purpose. At a low level, modern having access to autocombo punish and instant anti air is a huge deal against people trying to learn to play on classic.
Basic move execution is part of the game, but it isn't the interesting part of the game. Modern shifts the focus from getting the inputs right towards fighting game fundamentals. I've always played mainly classic, since I'm used to it from the SF2 days, but Max is right. You're trying to make the game all about the boring parts.
As someone in Bronze league at the moment I do think it gives beginner players an advantage against other beginner players. Once your skill level is up it doesn't matter as much. But it does make it tougher opting for classic if you're a beginner.
This is actually one of the things I see as a positive. One of the core ideas of accessibility is that your friend who has no idea what they're doing can actually stand a chance against you who has like 500-1000 hours. It's still balanced with pros and cons at the high level where fairness is a big deal, but brings everyone on the lower end of the skill spectrum (where it doesn't matter so much) closer together so that they can all have a good time fighting each other.
@@maxgrantz601i actually agree with you, im new to sf but started a lil on sfv probably 10 hours total or so but on sf6 my cousin who is also new plays modern, i play classic on arcade stick and i beat him 8-2 but the matches were fun and competitive
As a beginner who isn't and won't use modern controls I don't care if someone has an advantage over me using them. Winning individual fights matter less than improving.
Its funny that people make a big deal on how other people like to play their game. I'm at my 40s and at the point where I just want to enjoy my games. So yeah I use modern controls, have fun and not give a sh** what other ppl think.
I don't remember the settings but there are settings in training for these very things actually! There's one that has a bar over your head that shows you when you can buffer a link (it feels like it's ~6 frame window) And another one that highlights your character in red/blue to show when you can special and/or super cancel your moves. You'll have to sit and grind in there and practice it, but it helps a lot with learning what can cancel, when you can link moves, and all of it! I think it's in basic settings? I'd have to check
Isn't that just the basic training room? If it's specifically the timing then you can turn it down to half speed to identify which part of the animation lets you cancel. If it's recognizing combo paths then you can try the combo trials to learn potential routes and diverge from there to lab with in the training room. Having the frame meter on in the practice room is non-negotiable. It tells you your frame data on hit, on block, recovery, startup, etc.
I'm honestly glad modern is such a well thought out and viable control scheme because it simply means so many more people can finally enjoy fighting games when they simply couldn't before and be able to learn its intricacies compared to it simply being a paired down gimmick
I think anyone serious about getting good will start with classic, execution and combos isnt that big of a barrier compared with all the other things you have to learn.
Honestly. ANYONE can learn a fighting game. We players from the 90s like Max did the same. We were casuals, we sucked. Difference is we practiced until we got better. I feel today kids give up almost instantly if sth is a bit more complex than a FPS game or BR
@@kye4216 I mean, I do agree that with enough practice anyone can learn classic, but I know that some people just simply aren't able to remember motion inputs and stuff like that because of how specialised and unusual they can be but still wanna play Street Fighter well, and this control style does this.
@@lightup6751 I mean I don't disagree with you, I feel like anyone's first impressions of a game can make or break if they stick with it and my generation is less likely to want to learn them, but it's because of how unorthodox and unfocused the general loop of fighters are for my generation compared to said shooters. But this makes that barrier so much more instantly understandable for new players to actually get into traditional fighters, not to mention the barrier of most people having to spend nearly full price on most fighters to try a game they may or may not be able to easily start having fun with, so I think this only helps for more people, especially in my generation, to get into traditional fighters
@@kye4216I think it's two different kinds of challenge. Like you can understand theory all day with the best of them, but maybe you just don't have fast hands. We aren't asking Chess players to be good at Baseball. And I feel like for many that's what input difficulty feels like. I'm okay at the genre overall, but I'd be lying to say I haven't sometimes quit a game because the execution barrier felt entirely arbitrary
It is annoying when you're in bronze + silver trying to do combos and shit that are actually really hard to do if you're new at the game. And then play against a luke that is putting in 1/4 of the execution effort and he gets all his (obviously sub-optimal) combos for free. It's like you aren't on the same playing field. It just feels shitty as the classic player, but at the same time I understand why modern controls exist.
It reminds me of what it was like on EA Fight Night controls, where there was an option to throw punches with just a button instead of using the joystick to do the hit motion. Those that weren't great at the game would constantly complain that people were using the buttons to do combos faster than they could perform on the stick. As you get better at the game the joystick actually gives you more freedom and options that the buttons, and some motions were impossible on button controls.
Huge difference being, buttons did the same damage, and if you were still learning the game, you were forced to use them if you wanted to stand a chance. A much, much less immersive much less and fun control system. And the sticks weren't about complicated inputs that you had to remember at all, quite the opposite, even. Want to to a hook? Draw a hook with the joystick. Want to do a straight/jab? Draw a line with the joystick. Not quite the same thing as Modern/Classic in SF6, which just fixes what has always been just bad game design.
As someone who has never been good at the more complicated commands i always saw most fighting games as out of reach for me, But playing SF6 with modern controls has made me able to actually enjoy myself.
Same, I like watching FG videos while I multitask and have a decent grasp of the game but I simply don't have the free time to spend hours labbing to get the muscle memory/reaction time needed for more complex inputs. Modern controls let me play at a reasonably competitive level where my knowledge of the game helps compensate for my lack of practice at piloting a character
If anything, it all comes down to practice and honing skills and senses. Ryu's been teaching that for the past 36 years. Best thing to do is take each loss in stride and figure what you could have done and make adjustments accordingly. Same goes for any game you can think of
I once played sf6 with my uncle who was an old school fighter back when sf4 was around on the xbox, I handed him a controller to play with modern controls then he asked if he can switch back cuz it feels weird. So I switched it back to classic, let him remember his buttons again and he proceeds to wipe the floor with me with Ryu like he did when I was a kid. It was fucking awesome and terrifying
There's a certain flow state to Classic. It does take a lot of grinding and muscle memory to achieve at first-but like riding a bike, it just feels so right when it becomes second-nature. Modern feels extremely weird to me because I've played SF on-and-off for decades already. To me, the inputs are part of the experience and flow of combat. In other words, if I was that uncle, I'd do the same thing!
i've never had a problem doing the special moves. it's the timing of linking the basic chains into "combos" that I've always had trouble with; and that's what Modern controls are helping me with.
If You want to be a competitive player You need Classic controls. Classic controls make you to understand the real science behind This Game. Classic controls offer better ways to connect successfully better attacks. Modern controls are for people who like This Game but don't have enough patience to learn command moves or manual combos. I play Street Fighter since Street Fighter 2 When I was 12 years old. Now I'm 36 years old 😏
I can understand why lower levels would feel that way though. Some classic control players are not exactly pro level. I for example still struggle with the spacing, with inputs, with the combos, and timings but I still prefer playing classic, It’s just my preference and am trying to get good at it. Modern controls however bypasses special inputs and combos with easier execution so the player can focus on other things to get good at. Not saying it’s a bad thing, in fact it’s really good, but to a casual classic player it can feel like a handicap fighting modern.
Max is that dude (no pun intended). Your ability to eloquently deliver your thoughts in a digestible way, while remaining unbiased and objective is the reason why I am a fan and tune into your channel. And not just for the streaming stuff, it’s just to hear what you have to say, cuz the fighting game community very much values your input. Appreciate you sir!
Modern controls have its positives but the positives that classic offers far outmatch it. Also, i purchased a fight stick beacuse my hands simply cannot handle using a D-Pad on controller. So mad respect to controller users. Y'all are beasts
I think it's more of an issue at low ranks because of auto combos rather than special move inputs, since they act as sorta pseudo-auto-hitconfirms into 30~40% combos ending in super where you can mash the initial poke/button, and ends in damage way above what almost all bronze and iron players playing classic can do.
However you usually burn a lot of meter if the opponent is blocking, I still think it *feels* busted and classic players don't have even close to that level of damage on random jabs at bronze.
This was my problem at first, for sure. I lost almost every placement match, so I have actually played from Rookie rank up to Silver 5 (so far), and I definitely had the hardest time at first because I committed to playing classic. All the modern players could do combos, I could not. At that stage, I simply would have to win neutral more often, and against players who I couldn't predict at the time. Where I'm at now it's not really an issue, but I do feel if I get even better I might get a little salty about one button supers.
Modern has helped my friends who were never interested in FGs to play the game and made my transition from DBFZ to SF6 a whole lot smoother. Plus it makes old heads mad when I beat them so W’s all around.
@dinkleberg2871most of my experiences with ppl being a dick to me for using modern come from fans of older FGs. I know this cause they won’t shut up about it
@@aegismalkav8057 and I respect and appreciate the OGs that support modern and new players! I was just speaking to my experiences not trying to say all of them are bad sports
If You want to be a competitive player You need Classic controls. Classic controls make you to understand the real science behind This Game. Classic controls offer better ways to connect successfully better attacks. Modern controls are for people who like This Game but don't have enough patience to learn command moves or manual combos. I play Street Fighter since Street Fighter 2 When I was 12 years old. Now I'm 36 years old 😏
I started SF6 with classic controls on my keyboard and after weeks of playing it, it actually started to drastically affect the health of my hands and fingers in seriously unpleasant ways which wasn't very gucci given SF6 is a really fucking fun game and i had to outright take WEEKS of it until the knuckles and my joints started feeling better. I tried my controllers with classic controls and it just wasn't doing it. I didnt exactly get the precisious i was looking for and heavy attacks on triggers just didnt do it for me. Rashid comes out and i decided that i would finally give modern controls a shot and despite being the "simpler" controls, it took me quite a bit of use-to because i had to re-learn my mains to some degree and get used to the new layout but through it all i realized something: Modern control characters does significantly less damage compared to their classic counterparts. So even the argument that you only need half of the work for special moves and such falls flat because you still need to play carefully, work in combos and time them properly to do a fraction of the damage a classic character does. And some cases, some moves are enhanced or only available behind certain motion inputs EVEN in classic controls and the game rewards you for pulling those. Honestly i had a lot of fun with modern controls so far because it still requires some degree of work but it allows you to focus on strategy and timing without destroying your fingers pulling off the moves and such. I've really been enjoying it.
I'm just angry at Modern Controls, because apparently that's the reason I can't give my World Tour avatar BOTH Ken's Shoryuken AND Dragonlash Kick, even though DP+P and DP+K are clearly TWO different commands. 🤷♂ Classic controls will ALWAYS be "better" because it leverages to/from other fighting games. But it's nice to know that the big FG franchises are taking a page from Smash Bros, because there was a time when Smash was discredited as a "fighting game" (while Nintendo was clearly ahead of the trends in simplifying FG controls). 😉
Great analysis from Max. I play with Classic controls not because I want to be cool or something but because that's how I play the game from previous installments. I'm already using it for a long time so it's very hard for me to go on modern controls. I tried using modern controls but I'm not fit for that kind of controls. On the other hand I'm not really good at fighting games but love playing it ever since I was a kid. To be honest when I'm seeing someone using modern controls challenging me on cabinets or ranked match I always feel nervous. As far as I remember I'm always defeated by Zangief and Marisa players using modern controls. I guess I suck on playing fighting games 😂 a skill issue on my end haha
I had the same issue. I'm gonna try modern controls, because I love learning new ways to play, however it is very difficult when I'm used to the classic controls and mess up my inputs
@@1meen1 it's great to know there are other people just like me. I am totally learning the modern controls now to increase my knowledge of the game. I think it's cool to learn something for fun. But seriously I don't hate players using Modern Controls. I found them more interesting to adapt on something that I'm having a hard time.
If You want to be a competitive player You need Classic controls. Classic controls make you to understand the real science behind This Game. Classic controls offer better ways to connect successfully better attacks. Modern controls are for people who like This Game but don't have enough patience to learn command moves or manual combos. I play Street Fighter since Street Fighter 2 When I was 12 years old. Now I'm 36 years old 😏
@@edgarcedeno9291I see modern for casual and classic for competitive. But that doesn’t mean they’re exclusive to either way’s of playing. There are probably people who play modern controls at a high level and those who play classic at a low level. I don’t see the hate behind modern when it could relieve stresses for experienced players and bring in new players.
Modern or classic controls. There are pros and cons with either option, but ultimately, it depends on the player's preference. I like your take on the modern controls versus classic controls argument, Max. There are too many people with an elitist mindset.
It’s not an elitist mind set to be honest. There is some viable critic that is relevant. I’m fine with modern controls. If it helps grow the FGC. But it is undeniable that kids nowadays are lazy to learn. Inputs are not rocket science. There is no gatekeeping. If SF6 would be only modern controls the game would be incredibly limited and would never get the praise it does. It would be an entirely casual game. So modern controls are fine by me. But people playing actual controls definitely have the right to speak out against it. It’s like removing dribbling from basketball as a choice. Execution is part of a fighting games the same way as aiming is in a FPS game. I am happy for new players joining the FGC and welcome them. But they shouldn’t be so self entitled and arrogant to think that the controls are outdated just because they are not willing to practice them.
@@lightup6751 so basically bc you practiced something and learned to do it you think everyone else has to do the same? you played classic and learned it. and so bc you did that you think you "definitely have the right to speak out against" modern controls. that sounds more arrogant and self entitled than the ppl who think a 90s 6 button control scheme with motion inputs is outdated for console gaming. it sounds like you AND these "self entitled" complainers are both arrogant. who cares what controls ppl use just play the game
@@lightup6751 I would like to disagree with this "lazy to learn" argument. It seems a little bit off. I am not an SF fan, I like the characters but never been good at it and I think I'll never will, I know that SF is not my priority in life and not even my favorite game, TEKKEN and DBFZ is where I came from. But this SF6 modern control scheme pulled me in (not to mention the character creation too, I wish they implement normalization for versus so we can use it without avatar effect and massive stats bonus) because it gives me way to enjoy the game that I don't initially enjoy, this is not about lazy. I am having fun with the game now, I might never be that good in SF but I am having fun, this is what matters most when we play video games imo, I'm a casual gamer at heart and there is no need for me to put myself in a challenging situation in a game I don't initially enjoy. I am also glad that Max pointed out that usually the complaints come from low ranks in the early stage of this video, I have been thinking about that for quite a while now, because if people play really competitively and they're damn good at what they do in classic control scheme, they don't really complain about the 'easier but crippled' modern control. They would cringe at the thought of losing some of the strongest tool they might have in classic control scheme only to get speed advantage over special moves executions. Addressing your concern about self-entitled and arrogant players who said classic control is outdated and so on, that is a whole different issue. This feels like you're just angered by their uninformed comments and this is where the "elitist" image came upon you when you told them "You're lazy and not willing to practice", because in my view as a modern control user (can't say the same for everyone else though, this is just my personal view): I don't really care, why should I be dilligent over something that I have never cared about? This is why we see people who bash modern control users, as elitist. Especially when they spit out the 'lazy' comment. If you run into any arrogant modern user, just prove it in the game and beat the shit out of them, their comments won't matter at all when in the end: Classic wins over Modern control. They can't just wipe out Classic scheme with their thoughts, can they? If otherwise people with classic are eventually getting their ass beaten by Modern scheme even in the higher rank or pro stage by a really big ratio, then we'll talk about this again.
The "Elitist" argument is such BS, I'm an "Elitist" because I'm not a fan of Modern on lower ranks? Because I think Modern is maybe a bit too strong on lower ranks? I know I'm not great at the game, I play classic, and by Max's words that makes me an Elitist Snub? Fuck that. There are legitimate arguments to be made, especially for some characters.
I don’t agree that doing inputs is what makes you “good qt street fighter” obviously, but it’s a little disingenuous to say input it have nothing to do with skill. Execution under pressure is a decent sized chunk of what can make someone a strong street fighter player, knowing how much drive you have, they have, how much bar you have, they have, how much health you have, they have, and doing slightly complex inputs during all this is the magic of it. I still feel really really proud if I get an optimal combo in a high stress situation, I did not have the same feeling when I dipped into modern, 1 button DP felt downright unfair since I was only in low to mid ranks, and 1 button super can be insane on some characters, and is still good on the rest. I guess I half agree half disagree, the inputs aren’t what makes you good at street fighter, and anyone who says so is delusional, but dis issue them as easy and not even important is just as delusional in my opinion, it’s a part of the pie, regardless of how big the slice. Also I am a little confused that you shame the “basement warrior” you said, and claimed that do not inpits is not a big deal and is not something to be proud of, which is fine, but in the next sentance you then say modern is made for the people who can’t do inputs and their fingers bleed, but if Tis so easy that it’s nothing to be proud of why not just have the new players learn them, they’ll pick it up in minutes if it’s as simple as stated. For the record I am from be with modern, I just kind of find the dismissal of opinions by pa ntand no them as egoists is real lame, some people don’t want to see their old favorite series changed and watered down, some are in the middle, and some are idiots, and many more in between, silly to paint people with a single stroke cause you disagree.
For me specifically, this is the first fighting game Im putting tons of time into at 27 years old. At first I tried modern just to see how my main (juri) played, But now I'm full into modern with her. I already knew how to do motion inputs after putting a month or 2 into SF5 before the release of 6, I just have a really hard time stringing combos together because I've never been good at it or needed to do it. This helps me do the one thing I massively suck at while I can do the motion inputs for specials and supers to do max damage when needed. I actually get to enjoy a fighting game now, and could give a shit less if people think modern is for bad players only.
...and it won't nerf your damage! Modern is the perfect way for new players to dip their toes into classic Street Fighter execution, without getting thrown in the deep end and discouraged.
iv been saying this to my friends and they still shit on me for it. like wtf do you want me to do? bind the other 2 buttons to shoulder and trigger?? so god damn weird
@@Phoenix6942-7 yup. I always leave Juri QCF heavy kick in my back pocket as the ultimate mix. People assume you don't know motion inputs if you use modern, and are never prepared for the moves they think you can't throw out.
I honestly believe he thinks that Modern is kinda dumb. Because he came from a generation that played fighting games but didn’t give up on day one because it takes time to master a game. A lot of kids today complain about fighting games and drop it because they are overwhelmed or lazy to learn. But he also knows that his channel by now is mostly casuals and new players. So he plays both sides which is smart. He wants to grow the FGC after all. Im all for modern if it grows the FGC as well. But yeah, it’s a bit sad that modern is needed to bring in players. Controls were never an issue since SF2
@@lightup6751 they were tho. I can't stand quarter circle inputs but I did em cause I liked the game. I'm sure a lot of people dropped street fighter because of the motion inputs.
@@lightup6751 kinda funny how you say you're not an elitist but yet you're under multiple comments going off about how people are "lazy" for not wanting to put in time on a video game 💀that's 1 to 1 what it means to be an elitist
@@yl3716 No, it’s not. I suggest you brush up on your knowledge on the term. An elitist is defined by supporting a system or view that a system should be led by an elite. I never said or thought that fighting games should be led by better, long time players. I am saying that people who complain about a game being too hard and demanding it to be easier, while calling players who don’t want a functioning game to be made easier “elitist”, are absolute buffoons. It’s fine to suck at a game. We all sucked. We all learned. We all practiced and got better. Behind every pro was a casual beginner. But people sucking at a game because they don’t wanna invest time to improve and on top of that arrogantly calling players who mastered it gatekeepers are frankly a bit pathetic. This is like a bunch of out of shape, fat kids complaining about basketball being too difficult. Then supporting the hoop lowered, dribbling and the 3 point line removed. Then calling athletes who played this game long time elitists and gatekeepers for criticizing this mentality. I am all for modern controls, believe it or not. If it brings in more players, awesome. But the ignorance and self entitlement of some new players is what is irritating me. Wanting everything spoon fed and handed to them. People saying that classic controls are outdated while not realizing that if SF6 ran on entirely and exclusively on modern, the game would be boring to watch. Just like basketball with low hoops, no three pointers and no dribbling. Anyone can play modern or classic. But complaining about difficulty of a game because you don’t wanna practice is silly. Don’t you see what I mean? Is what I’m saying really not making any sense at all to you?
I am new to the game and I did use modern, but I did recently switch to classic because I do feel like modern controls is kind of a handicap that the longer I stay with it, the harder it will be to unlearn it when I need to learn classic.
thats one of the main issues with it. it gives you a advantage on lower levels till you reach a cap and then you have to relearn everything which might be harder then when you would have started with classic in the first place.
@@ap_poNo, it would Not be harder to relearn. Because they already started to learn spacing, footsies, what stuff looks like on block and what stuff on hit looks like. Resource management and such. There are a lot of things to consider, and switching from modern to classic within a game that you are already learning is the same as spending a day remembering what to do when you switch from a SF6 to a DBFZ or a Tekken or a MK. It's not that bad.
Honestly, switching between the two isn't that bad as you can use modern to learn motions while still having access to instant reversals when you need them. Remember, just because you're using modern doesn't mean you can't learn the motions. Everything after that is just labbing combo routes.
@@ArkticDark i talk about the input method. you have to relearn that and some of the decision making which you where allowed to do via modern is just not transfering to classic till you really mastered it. there are overall aspects of the game which of course transfer over and have nothing to do with the input method.
Im a fighting games enthusiast. Modern got me 30-0. Classic got me 9-0. Modern is cheat code and a beggars game. I want a filter to remove those scrubs from my SF6.
Modern controls are a big reason the game is as popular as it is, so if you care about this game's longevity you'll be happy they're there, otherwise you're either kind of an idiot or not nearly as good as you think you are.
@@lightup6751 why? I think because Max not focus that using modern is being cheap or not, but more to bring more fans. If someone complains being lose to modern, it is not because modern is cheap, but because that person is low level and not enough labbing
@@rezarhd86 i agree that modern controls is important to bring new people on. I play SF since SF2 in the 90s. a modern player won’t beat me. but there absolutely should be an option to choose to play against same control scheme or all control schemes like cross play. and no, that isn’t true. on the highest level yes, modern won’t ever hold a candle to classic. but on low to mid level of play modern definitely has an advantage. especially all beginners that use classic will get bodied by beginner on modern. the learning curve between classic and modern isn’t the same and there is reliable evidence to reinforce that claim. if there is two new players that never touched a fighting game the one on modern will demolish the one in classic. new players should have the choice to learn against people with their same controls.
I think there's a sweet spot that devs haven't figured out yet. Something that simplifies the inputs (and also reduces time to do said input) while retaining the entirety of the moveset each character has to offer. There's a couple methods I've in mind like: 1. Change motion buttons to where it's 1-2 motions + a button. Like instead of fireball being down > diagonal > forward (3 motions), make it just forward with said button. Dp meanwhile being the diagonal and so on. For command normals, you can just work around them via other motions or multi buttons. 2. Have your buttons be normal the way they are but add 2 special buttons which, when pressed along with a normal will give you a special. Like let's say it's L1 (special button) + triangle for slow fireball. We add forward motion into the input, like L1 + forward + Triangle, we get Dp.
I would be so, _so_ down for something like this. Designing inputs and/or commands that, while respecting the feel of character specific actions to come out and _reward_ the player for proper execution, they are *not required* for someone to not only play the game, but to be good at it too.
While Modern does go a long way to help beginners, I think the discussion about them typically glosses over those who are "casually competitive" and prefer Modern so they can focus on their fundamentals and decision making rather than all the buttons. I've played fighting games for over a decade, and I'm pretty decent: won some locals, placed okay bigger tournaments, and get a moderately high rank online. I can do all the specials perfectly fine in most situations, and most of the specials I do use are manually input. But Modern helps me to smooth out some of the rough edges (hit confirms, reaction anti-airs, supers, etc.), and more importantly, it feels SO MUCH BETTER playing a "4-button" fighter on pad than a 6-button fighter. And lastly, as someone who is eagerly awaiting Project L, I think building skill and muscle memory around 4 buttons with direction input specials/supers will make transitioning to that game much easier.
I feel the same way. I do not struggle with motion inputs, it's the 6 button layout that doesn't click with me especially when I'm on pad. I got to celestial on GGST and I still play on modern because its just more comfortable.
This! People leave out the argument that a lot of newer fighters come from 4 button fighters with gamepads in mind because fightsticks aren’t practical for many people. It’s more accommodating if anything, and I hate people being upset by having others be simply accommodated. It’s LITERAL gatekeeping.
same here, i play other fighting games, im only "noob" on SF i have no problem with motion inputs but im more use to 4 buttons layout, even 5 some times so i go modern, but 6 dedicated normals buttons plus Parry and DI command feels sooo intentionally over-complicated and unnecesary to me, i dont want to be disrespectful with legacy players but classic squeme looks out of date and unnecessary imo and lets be honest, if capcom wanted they could compress the classic squeme to 4 buttons using the already unused existing directions but clearly they cannot touch the classic squeme cuz that would unleash ww3, they already unleashed a civil war with modern
In Silver when i run into a Modern Control User i just think "welp, he got a better execution than me so i cant fuck it up." Im happy that is helping a lot of people to get in the game.
I played the demo a few times and tried out both control types and I could feel the difference between them. Although I'm not "new" to the fighting genre, I don't have the know-how to pull combo strings into specials or any lingo you may think of, and as one might guess I have no arcade stick. MODERN feels a lot more welcoming to controller and the casual player for sure, and I'd even say that starting from there I kinda feel the urge to try and master CLASSIC even on a controller! The idea of those flashy combos being "possible" goes a long way into changing a casual player perspective of the game and encouraging them to try and learn the more difficult and optimal routes to dish out damage. All in all, SF6 felt like THE GAME for me that like the genre but never felt too hyped to jump into such a game because it felt more difficult than it was fun. Now I can fun AND challenge myself. Couldn't ask for more.
Something else to consider for Modern controls: it's literally an accessibility issue. There are people who literally cannot physically do motion inputs for more than maybe a couple matches, or are neurodivergent and can't remember the motion input for every special move their character has. Modern controls may not necessarily solve all those issues, but it certainly makes it a _hell_ of a lot easier for a _lot_ of people.
the issue is not modern but that they allow it in ranked. just allow modern and dynamic for casual play. opens up the gate for online play for much more people and you hear no bitching from people who are more competitive and want to play ranked with classic.
@@ap_powhy should those who use modern controls be barred from an aspect of the game they purchased? If those who wish to play competitively are complaining about Modern controls then they either need to get better in dealing with those players or switch to modern controls themselves. The people who complain about modern controls are those that either suck playing against them or are fgc snobs with their heads up their ass about something they weren't gonna use anyway. The upper echelons of players use classic, which means they fought a sea of modern controls users and won.
@@nojusticenetwork9309 maybe because of the same reason people who purchased the game and want to use dynamic are not allowed to do so? where are you trying to get them into ranked mode so that they can play the game they purchased? there are plenty of reasons why it shouldnt be a thing but lets discuss about that after you fought for dynamic player to have the same right ;)
I find modern controls to help me with actual combo structuring. I can do most inputs manually, and do so for the added damage, but having that more condensed control scheme helps me embrace and learn more characters.
I think the bit about equating special moves to bring good is important. Combos are important, but it's the easiest part to learn. The hard part is getting the touches, or whiff punish or whatever so you actually have the opportunity to land the combo. Special moves being easier to combo into does not matter due to the damage reduction, which pairs with normal combo scaling. This means that even though long strings of specials are easy, the end result is that you probably end up doing as much as a shorter combo on classic. At the same time, it means at high level, you will never be able to match the damage on a punish as someone on classic. That means there's really one major difference. Access to supers, which is much easier on modern, vs more damage in combo and punish situations on classic. Of course there are smaller nuances, but I think that this is the biggest discrepancy between the two.
As someone who wants to get slightly better at SF finally since this is the most accessible so far, I struggle with inputs and frame 1 links really badly. Coming from Tekken 7 to this just crushes me because I feel my hands on my pad just killing my hands for how fast inputs have to be and constantly dropping hit in trials makes the learning process very frustrating. I feel like I'm doing the move correctly, but the game says so other wise. Couldn't doing some it hurts my hands and makes me want to switch to Modern, but I don't like the trade-off of using the characters kit fully. So I'm torn between the choice of the controls to best suit my hands and help learn my how to actually make combos land.
Have exactly the same problem (except i didnt played tekken). After a while of think about the options in controls and controllers I choosed to buy a leverless fight stick. It did not arrived yet. So I play with pad and classic control and ignore the pain at my thumbs as good as I can lol
choose your hands. you only get one pair of em, don't mess them up just for a fighting game. if you want to stick with classic though just try slowing it way down and/or working your way into flashier combos by starting with the simple stuff. i do not think any combo in this game requires speed that would hurt your hands, you are probably going too fast.
@@PvtPotato92 it's not carpal tunnel or anything like that, it's the quickness of inputs required for some of the combos that just wears on my thumbs sometimes. Plus it feels like you have to do combos unbearable fast in the trials to even get it come out. And even when I know for an ABSOLUTE FACT I'M PRESSING THE INPUT CORRECTLY, it does not come out. It's frustrating af.
we've had something similar since MVC1 where it had easy controls and that helped me get into fighting games and have fun as a 6 year old. Over time i learned how to do different special attack motions like fireballs and charge motions. I still struggle with dp motions sometimes like i actually have to think about doing it, but that's just cos I've been a Chun-li main for years and haven't had to use them as much
My problem with modern is not the special move inputs but the auto combo feature… when you get hit by a modern player you just know they’re getting a full combo (damage scaled but still) without human error. DNF did it right, you still have to do the combos but can simplify the inputs if you want to
just don't get hit by unsafe combos then? I'm fairly sure -all- the auto combos are NOT safe. Not only that, some characters will literally burn thru drive gauge regardless of how much they have and those combos do not work when burned out lol (like, Luke's combos literally stop working when he's in burnout)
@@Paronak nigga I know how to play the game I’m talking in general about the mechanic, It’s weak. I said what I said, DNF did it right point blank period
M Controls have allowed me to learn Street Fighter while still having fun and doing cool things. As I put more time into the game I slowly become better/more comfortable with the classic inputs I can put in while still on M Controls. I hope this never leaves cause it's gonna build a future player base
You are out of touch on low tier because doing special moves isnt even the issue. Its those who struggle in classic versus modern one button mashing. 1. You admitted to never using modern. 2. You stated higher tier dont have many if any modern. Its because they smashing lower tier victims. I guess you are skilled but please never teach people. You forgot what it was like. Like I said you learn classic you can go anywhere and be cool competent.
Jiyuna made a list of which characters really benefit from modern controls, I think it's pretty accurate. If anybody wonders how they'll get good at fighting games, all you need to do is follow three not so simple steps: 1. Devote a couple hours to learning a game's frame data, at least for your main, and how much you can do before a reset. Knowing when your turn is up is the most important part of neutral. 2. Find your own combos. Trials help with basic stuff, but optimal combos may be too hard for you, and that's alright. A true bread and butter combo is one that you're very confident to not drop. 3. Play the game. Only other players can give you the experience to fight against them. You'll learn to respect moves, measure hitboxes and distance yourself from dangerous situations. There's still some decision making to be had, but you'll get used to it.
If a game broke down all these things for each character, I'd be more receptive. But once you start getting into frame data & having to look up all that stuff online, I check out.
There are people in top 500 using modern. It's completely viable on most characters. Some you lose so much that it's really hard to play well (like dhalsim). Some lose almost nothing of value (lily). And you can still do motion inputs to get full damage so I really don't even see it as a downgrade if you know what you're doing. Heck even pro players were experimenting with it. Tokido was playing modern Luke for a while.
This is yhe only problem i see with this new control scheme is its going to require a whole lot of balancing to teally make it fair as of right now modern is like you said only viable on so many char and sone it works better than even classic so its kind of a can of worms that they have opened with this new model controls
I main JP and its physically impossible for me to do his special moves in classic so I play modern so I can actually do combos and play the game. I don't care what anyone thinks because I want to play JP since hes a cool character and I actually want to have fun.
Is there ANY fighting game that actually tries to elevate the player by teaching them how to actually do the motion inputs instead of just simplifying the controls? Why don't fighting games teach that?
While there aren’t enough modern commands to cover all of certain characters’ moves, you can still input classic commands when using modern controls. You can even tilt your control stick while pressing buttons to use alternate normals. A huge thing to note: putting in classic commands, while using modern controls, will allow you to get the move off without suffering a damage penalty.
Great take on the situation. I personally use modern controls because I'm not really experienced with fighting games and have always played them against CPU, but with the modern controls I tried going online for the first time and I'm having an absolute blast. Even though I still get my teeth kicked in regularly in silver, the way the game feels to play is just so much fun
I do complain about modern controls, but only cause of this 3:56 . Luke's fireball at max range takes 23 frames (about 1/3 of a second). That's how many frames a modern player would have for them to react, while a classic player also needs enough additional frames to input it (for me its like 20 frames). I feel like this can remove certain possible pressure strings and specials from neutral. I rarely see modern players, but its frustrating to play against most of those matches.
When I played as Ken on modern. Both me and my brother very quickly realized just how much easier is to shoryuken on reaction, to the point where I wouldn't be surprised if there's situations where reacting with a special is only possible thanks to modern controls.
I play with modern control and I still practice doing the motion inputs for special moves sometimes because it deals more damage. I use the special button mostly in neutral if I need a quick reaction to an opponent jumping in or throwing a fireball for exemple. I like the 3 buttons configuration for normals, even though I lose some moves for my character, because 6 buttons is a bit overwhelming for me.
The complaint from lower ranks is it makes it a lot harder to practice and good at classic controls because you not playing against a bunch of other people who are bad a classic controls anymore. So while you are trying to learn combos and special moves you getting stomped by people who can do them for free. It the same thing in FPS games when you play against champions that don't need to aim. There is no good place for people learn how to aim because everyone is getting stomped by the heroes that don't need to aim in the lowest ranks.
maybe those people could also play modern, they can do both motions and specials and auto and manual combos, then switch back to classic when they get consistent with their inputs... or maybe not, maybe they find out that modern is perfectly fine for them
If they can't do special inputs yet, that's a growing pain, plain and simple. Nothing is stopping them from using modern controls, but as they are willingly doing the thing that is harder for long term gain, they should expect hardships. These people who are too casual to not realize but simultaneously not casual enough to just go and pick modern controls is a very small market
I definitely understand the frustration of thinking "my opponent doesn't have to work for their higher damage combos and they can't drop them like me" but what's beautiful about low level gameplay in any competitive game is its so open. There are so many things that can be upgraded in each players gameplay that sure they might have higher damage combos but you can develop your gamesense and general strategy to beat them. Then as you level up you can implement better combos. If you're smart about how you approach things, jab jab special can take you a pretty long ways if you start in rookie
exactly this. i'm a beginner classic player with no interest in modern because I think it's boring to use, but the fact that other beginner players use it makes it far more difficult for me to advance while learning the game
The silly thing is, I'm a pretty casual player but eventually I was able to do special moves somewhat consistently. But I still get fed up trying to practice combos, and as nice as it is to have a Smash-style direction + button input method, that doesn't help with actually capitalizing on a clean hit. In the end it's still a very fun genre, but I'm just the type of person that prefers to improve through research and experimentation than rote practice, and as well as I might understand a game, I can't compete if my hands can't manipulate the controller quickly and accurately enough. Modern controls just closes that gap a little more, and I appreciate it. However, I ADMIT that I'm bad at fighting games, and at least I'm not a baby about it xD
Only thing that annoys me when playing against modern are the anti airs, they are way too easy to execute while I'm struggling with the consistence of hitting them in classic.
I tried to do modern controls once, it threw me off actually so much, I was so used to the 6 buttons for this game and was not used to doing things with smash inputs, I’ve played 4 button fighters before but they still have inputs which honestly just feels more natural to me, I am glad that people are getting into the game through it and more power to them, it’s just not for me, the only time I see it as unfair a bit is with charge characters since they can do their moves without charging but even then it’s only a minor gripe that only I might have 😅
Charge characters still have to charge in Modern. if you try pressing down + special on guile at the same time, a Somersault kick will never come out. you have to hold down for a second before it actually happens. Subsequent kicks, however, can be done immediately afterwards as long as you keep holding down since as far as the game is concerned, your charge and release directions are the same.
I don't think so. I've been through that, I had my FGC moment 10 years ago, played with my buddy for 1 year nearly every fighting game and watched EVO together. We had a good time but played other games till now. I came back a few month ago, playing SF6, MK1 at the moment and waiting for Tekken 8. Had a MadCatz SF4 Fightstick back then and had miss inputs with that too, felt better as the pad still doing specials wasn't easy. #1 One of the biggest things and fun things in fighting games are combos, with Modern you can do them easily. Which means combos win you games, if my opponent misses his DP. I wanna do max damage and if I can't do Light, Light, Medium into whatever special into maybe ult or whatever, because I drop the combo and even get punished. I feel awful. I think I trained more in SF4 as I really played, to do those damn FADC into ult combos. With Modern I can do it easily. Modern isn't good because you can punish crossovers with DP, we talk about Iron+ ranks here, most players don't even know what this is or position themself right. Doing special moves doesn't automatic makes you win but still, with that out of my head, I can concentrate on the game, look for weaknesses, learn and can punish them. #2 Another Controller/Fightstick/Leverless or whatever can 100% make you better. Thanks to MK1 controls I can play well on pad and do good combos, SF6 (Classic) on the other hand is a nightmare with pad. I jump when I don't wanna jump, specials won't come out. I bought a Leverless around a month ago which was hard to get for PS5/PC in Germany and cost me 380€ but I wanted to test it and send it back if it's not for me or lost interest in FGs. I immediately felt the difference, no more wrong inputs and after around 2 weeks I felt very comfortable with it. I got better in MK1 from Warrior to Master and I was stuck in Silver (SF6) with (M) pad and switch to (C) with Leverless, because of SF4 it wasn't that hard to remember the inputs and it felt natural with Leverless. I'm Gold now can't do crazy combos but they do way more dmg, the -20% dmg from (M) really hurts you. Not saying you need a Leverless to be good but test of is best for you, and for me it was 100% a Leverless. I mean Justin Wrong's first tip to get better is learn your executions and don't drop your BnB combos. Modern is an amazing way to join SF6 and switch later or stay on Modern if you want.
They just need to remove the indicator that shows you what controls your opponent is using. If the game stops calling attention to it, maybe there'll be fewer scrubquotes about it.
I'm kind of a weird case because I've been playing since World Warrior and I prefer modern controls. My issue has never been executing special moves, but rather getting good with combos. With modern, I have three basic combos that I can pull off depending on my meters, freeing my mind up to focus on poking, resource management, and overall tactics. The lack of having to pretzel my old fingers around, while still being able to do cool sh*t and have fun, is a huge win for me. 😁
Even Darksyde Phil (who I've heard is an EVO finalist) consistently drops combos and special move inputs. I feel like Modern controls might be good for him too.
he once cried about a dee jay using modern controls beating him when using modern controls on dee jay is almost a detriment since you still have to charge your moves lol
I'm still SHOCKED that man makes enough of a living to have better housing than most and blows a ton on gacha, yet STILL fails to have a decent streaming setup.
For me, the better option is what's going to finally allow me to enjoy a fighting game especially one as fun as Street Fighter 6 and that's what Modern Controls does for me. I'm not good at inputs and combos so no matter how much I practiced I could never pull them off properly in a match with previous titles so I'd end up just doing arcade modes, training and fight low level AI. The introduction to these controls made me step into ranked matches for the first time in a fighting game and feel confident and enjoy myself. Also in regards to stick vs controller, Max is absolutely right about people shaming or trash talking someone using a controller. I was a part of a fighting game club back in college in 2011 and man the looks and trash talking from people when two of my friends would whip out their controllers when asked to do a 1v1 and the best part is my friends won majority of their matches as well.
He HATH FINALLY SPOKEN. So everyone, STOP bitching about it and go enjoy this amazing fighting game the way YOU want to and don’t let anyone else tell you otherwise😂😂 Sincerely: Someone who’s very tired of hearing of the whole Modern vs Classic Slander either way😂😂
Modern controls are fine they just shouldn't be allowed in real competition. These competitions are supposed to be for skilled players who should know how to do the moves. Also, modern controls should only match up with modern. If skilled players are preferring modern controls then something is so good about modern controls that outweigh the "advantages" of classic. The game should be designed in such a way that the disadvantage of modern controls are so much that a skilled player with classic will beat a person with modern. If this isn't the case perhaps they could nerf the damage to 30% instead of 20%. If people don't like that than learn to play the game. You should feel REWARDED for classic controls, not like you are gimping your self by using them.
Modern Controls in SF6 is what finally managed to let me get into a fighting game and actually feel like I'm managing to play the game. Everytime I've tried to get into a cool fighting game in the past I would just get overwhelmed by trying to consistently pull of specials or do even basic combos that my brain had no time to process the actual fight and react to other people. Would just spend my entire time getting bodied while unable to do literally anything and then I'd get so frustrated I'd quit. Modern Controls simplifying a lot of mechanical stuff finally lets me actually play the game and focus on the actual fundamentals of learning how to react to opponents. I still get my ass kicked by people better at the game than me but now I at least feel like I'm learning and making progress instead of banging my head against the wall.
I'd definitely say this is missing the point a bit. I've been climbing out of Gold and it's been alright, but when I was down in silver and dropping my combos a lot, I'd come across these Modern controls and their auto-combos would let them get so much damage out. Even if they only land the strong ones off DIs or blocked DPs or the like, when I did the same back dropping the combos just meant they had better damage output. Even then, they actually were doing more advanced combos than me, I can't do Ken's dragonlash into super that the auto combo has, I'm just bad that going from one to the other. Special moves and supers are good and all, but reliable damage for guaranteed openings is a big thing at lower ranks. I don't blame their control method for that, but it does feel kinda shitty when you'd have won a game if you didn't drop your combos or if they had a similar combo damage output as you. It's just a matter of doing it enough til you don't really drop them, but Modern obviously lacks that aspect so I can see why people might feel a bit wronged by it.
no hate but you are the player Max is talking about in the lower ranks. you are bothered your opponent isnt making the same mistakes and bad plays as you by dropping combos and you feel they are cheating you bc their damage is easier to do but if you were just better you would have won. so why focus on the ppl using auto combos and not your own play? from what you described you were losing in silver bc you were dropping your own damage and were making mistakes to get hit by your opponent's damage. that is just a normal lost in a fighting game brother. you chose to grind out the classic learning curve that was your decision. you cant be feeling "shitty" other ppl didnt make the same decision
@@sGzBugz I mean I never said he's wrong, I said it's not about just the speical moves. That said I also said I didn't blame the control method. I feel shitty losing to dropping the combo against classic people too, but it's very easy to note the auto combo in there as the specific area that gave them the extra damage, and I'm sure that's one of the big things these people must take issue with. Winning the neutral and just getting less out of your punishes will never feel good, it's fine to feel shity about that, just not reasonable to blame an option you're open to use yourself. Usually other low Silvers in Classic wouldn't have much for a punish counter, so seeing a modern control you just needed to be a lot more careful (mostly around DI) than classic controls at that level, while mid-gold it's actually usually the opposite. It's just a funny reality of it Max didn't touch on.
As someone that tried a few fighting games in the past it was always the special moves the made me stop since I couldn’t do them. Guilty Gear Strive was the first fighting game that I played for more than a few hours since it was more beginner friendly but even there, there were some special moves that my brain just couldn’t do (Gio Air Special for example). And Street Fighter 6 now is the first fighting game where I’m having fun since I can actually use all the moves available to me with modern controls. I gave me a reason to not be afraid of trying to learn some characters simply because I could finally do a dragon punch.
That’s so odd to me. When SF2 and SF3 came out in the 90s and 2000s we all sucked at inputs but we just practiced. It’s like a sport, you can work on it
Modern Controls definitely deserve to stay, just not in its current state. The benefit it serves to beginners is very welcome, but its impact at higher ranks is definitely causing problems. If it's sold as a way to let newbies get good at the game, then why make it just as useful to pros if not more (since they would clearly know the game better) by letting them have just as much access to Modern Controls as newbies. If the goal should be to rake in more new players, then Modern controls should be nerfed or restricted at higher ranks and tournament play. Not needing the training wheels anymore should be a part of being good at the game. If one really was good at the game, then stripping away Modern Controls from them shouldn't make a difference. I don't think balancing through damage and move set reduction will be all that effective either. Assuming the game balance is still the same across all ranks, buffing MC to help beginners play better will lead to higher ranking players taking advantage of this, and nerfing MC to deter unfair advantage at higher ranks may lead to it not being as useful for beginners.
I appreciate Max admitting he had to grow up from judging folks. Growth is always good. Other thoughts, if you not paying my bills, dont worry about whatever goddamn control/controller setup I use lol. Folks are full of it out there. I'm not good at it all but Max and others breakdown actually inspired me to buy this. I haven't cared or played a fighting game since MVC3.
@@BubbyBoy charge characters are kind of strange on modern you end up still having to charge and with guile unless I'm mistaken you cant do his standing flash kick so its really not worth it
@@BubbyBoy Not with a -20 damage modifier they aren't! xD If you feel threatened by Modern controls on any character you're a pussy, and that's a *you* issue. Buff *yourself.*
I feel like there are some people out there that would make Top 20 evo with modern controls but because a lifetime of physicaly unable to do inputs or remeber combos gave up on fighting games. Hopefully other fighting games will start implementing things like this cause i truly beleive its the one thing that is holding back fighting games.
The only people who are going to make it to Evo with Modern and the pros who swapped over from Classic because it lets them do inputs inhumanly fast. There's no hidden prodigy who only now can break into Evo finals now that Modern is a thing. If you were bad at fighting games before Modern you're still going to be bad.
The only thing that makes a player good to THAT point is practice. If they didnt want to practice before they aren’t gonna practice now. It just helps people that dont care enough to lab for hours. It’ll help against silver and bronze players(like everyone good already said) but beyond that it just comes down to dedication and hours/years of practice. Again if the didnt feel like dedicating before they wont now.
Subjectively I prefer the classic controls because I'm a fightstick-using purist. But honestly? The game was clearly designed with modern controls in mind because the idea/hope was for SF6 to bring the franchise back into the mainstream after the bad PR of 5. And fair play to Capcom, it worked! SF6 is REALLY popular among a pretty wise audience right now
Modern control is important, as it's another ammo in the bag. I lost because... Lag Your character is low tier, mine is low tier And now you use modern control And many more; LTG and DSP are very excellent pros on this. LTG with the opponent level 3 into dashboard tech is still on point from the clips I've seen.
I just wish there was an option that you could block modern users. I appreciate it's a good idea to get more new players in, I just don't have time for it personally.
I played through world tour in modern but I have felt a bit anxious about doing online with them so I have been practicing classic. With that, I feel my basic moves feel better but I do struggle with the left to right motion. I really have enjoyed sf6 even learning classic
I don't have a problem with modern controls I just think they are stupid. I think ppl should learn how to execute combos and motions so they can get a better appreciation for the game and what it takes to be execute cool combos. When you give ppl shit too easy, they don't appreciate it. When we were younger, we would be in the lab wll day working on this same combo and when we finally got it, it felt amazing. And then you keep practicing it until you become consistent with it. Its an amazing feeling and I feel like you're robbing ppl of that experience. This isn't moreso a modern control issue as its just a society issue with a microwave generation of ppl...
Thanks for this video, i use modern controls with a xbox controller. I was about to give up on the game because everyone hates me using modern, but im not cheating. I play Dhalsim and i was told i sholud play classic and i should use a fight stick or i was cheating with dhalsim. 🤷🏿♂️. I dont like classic, because yoga flame never comes out when i need and i always get combo punishment for trying. Im staying on modern, at least i can win sometimes.
I am grateful for modern because they’re the reason I ever even tried the game. I have now moved over to learning classic cause I felt in the long run, modern would be a handicap that would be very hard to unlearn. However, I wouldn’t have gotten the game if not for them. So I thank Capcom for that! 🎉
Why don't they just add AI assisted controls if modern controls don't matter online? Modern control players should be in their own pool online. Giving macro to players then lowering their damage is not balancing.
I'm surprised you didn't mention the use of modern controls in a "hybrid" way, where you input your special moves manually (because yes, QC p is still a hadoken in modern controls) and then using some of the advantages of modern like one-button supers and faster anti-air or stuff like that. I believe tokido was using his luke that way at some point, and oh boy, was it interesting.
why point that out when statistic show clearly that only very few players in high league using modern control. If modern control is as good or better then people will use it more. Even Tokido uses classic in recent tournament. Obviously Modern control is weaker to Classic.
I don’t mind modern controls, I just feel they don’t belong in ranked. Ranked is supposed to be where you face people of similar skill, and in my experience… people using classic like me, the matches are close…but then I get a modern player, and its almost never close, they just steamroll on by. I don’t claim to be gods gift to fighting games, I’m just an above average fighting game player, and once again this is just my experience. That being said…sure it’s frustrating, but it’s not gonna stop me from playing this incredible game.
🗣️ Let's make more fighting games with Dragonball fighterz controls! Yes I suck with z inputs and having to remember long ass button combos with different characters. I'd much rather play a game where every character has the same inputs and rewards players for learning how to string moves together and how to play neutral. Ive always appreciated fighting games but the fact that most of them had too much complexity is why I never put time and effort into playing them and held off from buying many others.
I like modern controls! I don’t use them but because of them I’m able to play with my friends! Seeing them get inspired to get better is fun too. One of my friends even managed to take some games off of me using modern, and it was great to see
I know I'm not great whatsoever at SF6 and am basically getting back into SF since Super SF2...but the bs about modern controls that has frustrated me while I was stuck in lower ranks was the auto-combos that they get from mashing one button...and will go into super if they have enough meter. The special moves I had down and that's whatever for modern controls. It was extremely irritating though seeing players who I know weren't really good at all beat me with auto-combos in the beginning. I've had to grind and work to get to platinum with Ken and Dhalsim. I see far fewer M-control users now and the ones I occasionally do play against seem to not simply mash auto-combos constantly. It's still a little frustrating sometimes with the easy supers they can throw out in a pinch...but I do see myself winning against M-control users more often now. I had to learn the basics and fundamentals...and I still am tbh. At least now I feel like matches are rewarding and I can learn even from losing. In lower ranks, I felt so frustrated because I didn't feel like I was learning anything or gaining anything from playing M-control users at those ranks. I honestly think the auto-combos into super for mashing just one button over and over because you got a lucky hit or whatever is cheap. The game is doing 80% of the work at that point and the player only about 20% it seems to me. Am I wrong?
You are literally the kind of guy Max was talking about Especially when you mentioned your frustration with what you perceived as "people who weren't good at all"
i'm a casual til the day i die, but i've never had issues with the commands for specials; it's the combos that casuals don't have time for. cryptic combo systems is one the reasons i've always preferred SF to MK and modern controls are the reason i'm actually starting to wrap my head around characters like Zangief and Guile for the first time in decades. but even with the assist feature we only get like 2-3 combos and they all terminate in an EX special that can burn you out if you spam them. if other players on modern is the difference between whether you're good or not, then from the perspective of a casual and sometimes spectator, you're just not. if you're a competitive player i would expect you to expect more from yourself. and if it still feels too unfair to you, you could always try modern controls.
Devil's Advocate: If you are in lower ranks and actually trying to learn, it can be hard on morale when EVERYTHING is optimal when using MC. The chunks of damage on such a consistent basis. Really, that's not "fair".
Reminds me of Stephanie Sterling's review that provides the insight of the neurodivergent players; those that are ACTUALLY incapable or remembering directional input/combo chains. Modern control allows them to FINALLY play and enjoy a game that has been locked out for their actual abilities. And as Max said, it's not about the "moves," it's about zoning, reactions, and taking advantage of openings.
![Cody Johnson - I'm Gonna Love You (with Carrie Underwood) [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/yy9PuYMU29g/mqdefault.jpg)
Whatever controls you use i hope you enjoy SF6 guys!
Subjectively I prefer the classic controls because I'm a fightstick-using purist. But honestly? The game was clearly designed with modern controls in mind because the idea/hope was for SF6 to bring the franchise back into the mainstream after the bad PR of 5. And fair play to Capcom, it worked! SF6 is REALLY popular among a pretty wise audience right now
I play classic control, but i cant enjoy when i see some bum doing super as "1 button" input instead 5 buttons. They must nerf modern somehow. Atlest they should remove ability to use classic inputs in modern control
You too mate
@@ПавелКалинин-х8мlooking forward to seeing you in top 8 at EVO master.
I don’t get good and use classic!
I love these deep dives and critical reviews/reflections; bring back the Real Talk videos, PLEASE Max!
he never used em...isnt something i would consider a deep dive. he literally talks about something he has no clue about...
Oh god, please yes. The “casualization” of Max’s channel has pushed me away for years now.
Where as his deeper stuff is what caused me to push ‘subscribe’ in the first place.
@@arcadetheorygaming5287same on the deeper dives making me subscribe, and I’m fairly new to the channel. It was his retrospective type videos I stumbled on that made me really dig the content. But now I’ll just take Max talking about whatever tbh lol
@@arcadetheorygaming5287Those are the ones that will keep me here, but it's a fighting game channel, silly fun is part of what makes this channel cool.
Facts, bring Max's opinions out!
Modern controls *and Cammy* helped me get into SF, now I'm learning classic and SF6 is easily one of my favorite fighting games, Capcom did well catering to beginners.
Exact same thing happened with me
I'm so glad to see people getting into SF like this, really shows how much the development team wanted new ppl to get into it so much.
Welcome to the thick thighs club. Glad to have you here
@@killer660 I am also glad that you are glad because there is nothing worse than asshole gatekeepers that drive people away from games
Boom, there it is. The intended purpose of Modern controls. It's the gateway that gets new players interested in learning the game at a deeper level. I don't use Modern myself, but I'll sing its praises to anyone who will listen. It's a huge reason Street Fighter 6 has sold so many copies, and that's a good thing.
One thing I feel that Modern controls contributes to strongly is reducing the 'mental stack'. The controls certainly won't make you good at the game on their own, but it does free up an enormous amount of mental energy and physical effort to be put to the actual situations and flow of a match instead. It's one less thing to think of, and that can be a big thing for some people, me included. Fantastic discussion!
I couldn't agree more! While I was playing SFV the majority of my thoughts were if I could actually execute the move I was going for correctly, which I couldn't, so I would fumble the move and get obliterated. Modern controls allow you to bypass this and focus on what you're going to do next, rather than stressing about your inputs, which makes the game infinitely more enjoyable for me
That's what he's saying though. If you are good at the game then these don't cause a mental stack.
I might be able to play the game while sick now lol
@@BlaisemIf the tournaments are anything to go by. Even the best players of the world will eventually drop combos.
Cope
My wife only has one hand because her dominant hand was amputated. For her, accessibility in videogames is paramount for obvious reasons. One of the problems with fighting games in particular is that classic controls severely hinder her ability to even participate in playing the game. Modern controls open the possibility of her potentially participating. She has similar problems with right stick camera control in games that do not have accessibility options with auto camera follow and lock on. Accessibility in videogames only benefits the industry as a whole because it means more people can participate.
This is fine, but they should be removed for ranked play. You can’t really make the case that it’s wrong for a game to require certain skills, or “abilities” if you will, because that is the very basis of competition as a concept, which is the very core of versus games. I’m glad your wife gets to enjoy the game, but if it compromises the quality of high-level play that’s a problem.
@@PetterNeI'm gonna keep it real I don't think you're at a level that matters, in master I've maybe seen 3 modern players so not it doesnt compromise competitive play you just need to get good
literally!! I'm disabled and without modern I couldnt even play
@@PetterNeLmao just say u bad
@@PetterNeif you think an amputee can beat you with modern controls, you shouldn't even be playing Street Fighter, pal.
If modern controls makes new Street Fighter fans I am all for it. I want Street Fighter 6 to be as successful as possible so it can fund other Capcom projects.
Best fighting game in years.
Monster hunter already exists, and SF5 sold very well despite having such a rocky launch and reputation. It doesn't need to pander that hard to newcomers.
*cough* I bought it to fund Mahvel *cough* hahahaha
Pretty sure Resident Evil & Monster Hunter are successful enough to fund plenty of Capcom's other projects.
@@zrifepsychhow did it pander so hard? Because of modern controls 😂? And it already has 2 mil so yeah very successful
I'd even add that Modern controls can help alleviate the decision making during a match because you don't have to think too much about motions anymore, leaving more brain power into learning the fundamentals of your character and reaction properly to your opponent.
I like this thought
That's the exact point of modern controls. I play on classic, was struggling to learn chun but then I realized i wasn't playing the game, I was trying to do the cool combos I labed. A complete novice will never realize by himself, and would drop the game
It depends on how you play. Sure when I pick up classic controls, it took a decent amount of time to be able to use them without thinking but that’s like, not even an issue. If you play consistently, you’ll be able to pull off combos and the characters specials without thinking too hard as is. And with the classic controls being as easy as they are, its less of a hassle to memorize than ever before while still having access to the characters full kit. If you are comparing the controls to snk, then yea modern controls are best for us casuals.
I’ve been saying this.
Modern controls still dont change fighting game psychology or fundamentals
This is true. I got whuped by a modern zangief the other day, and while the ability to do easy sbd etc did probably help him, the reality was that I just had bad fundamental play against a grappler. I was playing Ryu so he's got several options to deal with grapplers and I just wasnt using them.
Did I lose because he was on modern controls? Probably. Is that really the problem here? No. Just need to learn to deal with Gief better.
Fun Story: I was in battle hub a few days ago and I went against a guy using Classic Controls. They were great but I barely squeaked out a win against them. They immediately left the cabinet, hopped in chat and told me I was reported for using Modern. They left before I could respond with a
lol reported
They are angry people who unfortunately are in large numbers in the FGC.
Some people just can’t seem to afford the free surgery to remove their head from their ass.
how can they report you for using something built into the game? do they just lie and say you said something racist instead?
either way that is funny and a little sad.
actually have a similar story about just barely beating someone in MKX and they immediately called me a bad word for homosexuals, so i reported them. some people just got really fragile egos, hence why i mainly stick to single player in fighting games.
Not really a fun story, but they’re just as toxic as the people they think are ruining the game
I don't play Fighting games often, but they're always something I want to get into. I've been playing SF6 on Modern Controls because I tend to get a little overwhelmed with classic controls at time, But it doesn't stop me from learning more on feeling comfortable with classic controls. I like to believe that the game can be played either way, Modern or Classic. I always see so many people attacking each other over the way people play when it comes to those 2 choices. SF6 is the most I've played of a fighting game in years, I'm glad that Modern was introduced.
If You want to be a competitive player You need Classic controls. Classic controls make you to understand the real science behind This Game. Classic controls offer better ways to connect successfully better attacks. Modern controls are for people who like This Game but don't have enough patience to learn command moves or manual combos. I play Street Fighter since Street Fighter 2 When I was 12 years old. Now I'm 36 years old
I tried modern and classic and I found that while playing classic I focused so much on trying to nail execution that I would get caught out by simple things. Like I was always looking for the situation that would allow me to use the combo that I knew I could execute, so I missed everything else. I tried modern controls, and my brain did a weird thing. I started analyzing the flow of the match and taking in all the information and deciding what to do with it. Instead of looking for the thing I wanted to see, I started looking at everything and seeing what I could do with it. The 'Aha!' moment was such a simple thing to, I have a combo that I like where I start by dashing in. Some guy DESTROYED me cause I kept trying to do the thing I knew I could execute, and he would just jab check me every time. After I started using modern controls I SAW what he was doing, and I adapted to that by tapping forward to fake a dash, get him to whiff a jab, then go in for the punish. Instead of just trying to force what I wanted to happen, I saw what WAS and changed according to THAT. It was almost magical.
This is what I love about monster hunter as well.
That Aha! moment when you realize what the enemy is doing, and how to counter it. It's poetry.
That's exactly why modern controls are unfair in lower ranks
@@LucasSantos-yh1mi Your statement makes no sense. Unfair would imply I am doing something that other people can't also do if they choose. The only limitations my opponent have are ones they apply to themselves. Technically, you handicap yourself by using modern controls since you do less damage and lose half your move-set. If you are getting beat by someone whose damaged is nerfed and half their options are missing, then I'm afraid it isn't the control scheme to blame for your L.
@@MagiRaz That's not how it works in lower ranks. Dropping combos, getting worried about technical stuff IS PART of the game. When you skip that part and just go ranked playing someone trying to learn you do make the game frustrating to this player. You never drop a combo. Always confirm into CA. Cross DP, dp anti air, CA in one button and the list goes on and on. You do less damage and lose some buttons but that's minor in lower ranks. As you said, you can think about other things as you won't have any button commitment to think of. I'm currently on diamond and there's a few modern players and I normally, not always, beat them. But in lower ranks is completely unfair
@LucasSantos-yh1mi but it USED to be part of the game. SF6 has changed that
I really agree with the sentiment of "I use stick because I like the motion of it." Personally I would not play fighting games nearly as much without it. I feel like I'm finessing a mech and it just feels so good when I'm in the zone and the inputs are just right. Like you can *feel* how good your inputs are, and to me, that's the dopamine hose.
Aaaaan then your TE2+ up an' breaks right before a big touunament. o.o An' you find out that Mad Catz is outta business now. An' so you have to use a pad. An'.....
@@mikejonesnoreallylooks like someone's off their meds
I'm the opposite. I hated motion, but the fact that they let you use lever less is what makes me stick around. I remember I tried SFV and they made it a nightmare to try and remap keyboard, so I tried controller, and I ended up hating the game. SF6 has treated me so much better-
Yeah I've tried a hitbox and I know it's objectively the better control scheme but something about stick feels more fun to use. And honestly, if I'm playing a game that's what I want most right?
I play stick because it's simply the most fun. I dont care about it's limitations. (it has some advantages too)
I remember when arrow keys were once classic keyboard controls, now we got WASD, feels surreal how controls keep changing
Wdym I've always used arrow keys
ArrowMasterRace
I used to use arrow keys and ASDZXC 6 button format
Effectively left handed controls
There's a review of an early fps, that bitches hard about the insane control scheme of right stick moving camera, left stick moving you around.
Says it all, IMHO.
@@severussinthat's what I do in sf6 lmao, arrow keys, ZXCASD buttons, W parry, ctrl throw, shift drive impact. I'm left handed so I prefer it
I think this is quite the strawman argument Max... I am shit at Street Fighter, I will say this easily. I am low rank. I don't think being able to pull of hadokens makes you good. But for example I cannot pull of supers consistently as a combo ender within a match. Or hell even raw supers. In training mode I have no issue. Ultimately part of this game is learning how to pull of these things like hit-confirms, consistent anti-airs, buffering SPDs, supers, all of this under pressure. This may be the easy part of SF for high level players, I get that. But this is a bit of an elitist view when 90% of the playerbase still struggles with these things. Ultimately in a game where reaction time matters (on the granular level of literal frame by frame) , having an instant input of DP is a huge bonus. I don't know how anyone can deny that. Max already said himself that he cannot antiair consistently in this game because there is so many things to anticipate including the DI for example.
Ultimately you are dividing the player base and changing the level playing field. You make them play by different rules. That is no go in any competitive game, since it will leave a bitter taste in the mouth of any beginning player. It seems to me that most experienced SF players are okay with this because there is this "oh please give us more players" mentality that dominates every conversation around this topic. A level playing field is integral. I mean it's also not level for modern players. They do less damage. That's imo bad fricking design. People will get bitter. When you think of all the new players modern brings, you gotta think of all the new players who are turned off by the game who wanna play classic but are jus frustrated as well. That's also part of the equation and toxic to the game's health.
This is the best comment. It's clear Max made a strawman on purpose.
At a low level, modern having access to autocombo punish and instant anti air is a huge deal against people trying to learn to play on classic.
Basic move execution is part of the game, but it isn't the interesting part of the game. Modern shifts the focus from getting the inputs right towards fighting game fundamentals. I've always played mainly classic, since I'm used to it from the SF2 days, but Max is right. You're trying to make the game all about the boring parts.
As someone in Bronze league at the moment I do think it gives beginner players an advantage against other beginner players. Once your skill level is up it doesn't matter as much. But it does make it tougher opting for classic if you're a beginner.
This is actually one of the things I see as a positive. One of the core ideas of accessibility is that your friend who has no idea what they're doing can actually stand a chance against you who has like 500-1000 hours. It's still balanced with pros and cons at the high level where fairness is a big deal, but brings everyone on the lower end of the skill spectrum (where it doesn't matter so much) closer together so that they can all have a good time fighting each other.
@@maxgrantz601i actually agree with you, im new to sf but started a lil on sfv probably 10 hours total or so but on sf6 my cousin who is also new plays modern, i play classic on arcade stick and i beat him 8-2 but the matches were fun and competitive
I agree but there are some straight combo killers in bronze classic. Idk if it's smurfs or what but combos aren't the issue in bronze.
As a beginner who isn't and won't use modern controls I don't care if someone has an advantage over me using them. Winning individual fights matter less than improving.
Its funny that people make a big deal on how other people like to play their game. I'm at my 40s and at the point where I just want to enjoy my games. So yeah I use modern controls, have fun and not give a sh** what other ppl think.
I wish there was training for timing for canceling. It is the one thing that I'm not good at.
What I do is that I start doing the input before the move I want to cancel out of comes out then press the button as soon as it hits
I don't remember the settings but there are settings in training for these very things actually!
There's one that has a bar over your head that shows you when you can buffer a link (it feels like it's ~6 frame window) And another one that highlights your character in red/blue to show when you can special and/or super cancel your moves. You'll have to sit and grind in there and practice it, but it helps a lot with learning what can cancel, when you can link moves, and all of it!
I think it's in basic settings? I'd have to check
Isn't that just the basic training room? If it's specifically the timing then you can turn it down to half speed to identify which part of the animation lets you cancel. If it's recognizing combo paths then you can try the combo trials to learn potential routes and diverge from there to lab with in the training room. Having the frame meter on in the practice room is non-negotiable. It tells you your frame data on hit, on block, recovery, startup, etc.
I believe you can slow down the game in training to work on special cancels.
Imo, I think you get to that naturally once you start learning the game more
I'm honestly glad modern is such a well thought out and viable control scheme because it simply means so many more people can finally enjoy fighting games when they simply couldn't before and be able to learn its intricacies compared to it simply being a paired down gimmick
I think anyone serious about getting good will start with classic, execution and combos isnt that big of a barrier compared with all the other things you have to learn.
Honestly.
ANYONE can learn a fighting game.
We players from the 90s like Max did the same. We were casuals, we sucked. Difference is we practiced until we got better.
I feel today kids give up almost instantly if sth is a bit more complex than a FPS game or BR
@@kye4216 I mean, I do agree that with enough practice anyone can learn classic, but I know that some people just simply aren't able to remember motion inputs and stuff like that because of how specialised and unusual they can be but still wanna play Street Fighter well, and this control style does this.
@@lightup6751 I mean I don't disagree with you, I feel like anyone's first impressions of a game can make or break if they stick with it and my generation is less likely to want to learn them, but it's because of how unorthodox and unfocused the general loop of fighters are for my generation compared to said shooters. But this makes that barrier so much more instantly understandable for new players to actually get into traditional fighters, not to mention the barrier of most people having to spend nearly full price on most fighters to try a game they may or may not be able to easily start having fun with, so I think this only helps for more people, especially in my generation, to get into traditional fighters
@@kye4216I think it's two different kinds of challenge.
Like you can understand theory all day with the best of them, but maybe you just don't have fast hands.
We aren't asking Chess players to be good at Baseball. And I feel like for many that's what input difficulty feels like.
I'm okay at the genre overall, but I'd be lying to say I haven't sometimes quit a game because the execution barrier felt entirely arbitrary
It is annoying when you're in bronze + silver trying to do combos and shit that are actually really hard to do if you're new at the game. And then play against a luke that is putting in 1/4 of the execution effort and he gets all his (obviously sub-optimal) combos for free. It's like you aren't on the same playing field.
It just feels shitty as the classic player, but at the same time I understand why modern controls exist.
It reminds me of what it was like on EA Fight Night controls, where there was an option to throw punches with just a button instead of using the joystick to do the hit motion. Those that weren't great at the game would constantly complain that people were using the buttons to do combos faster than they could perform on the stick. As you get better at the game the joystick actually gives you more freedom and options that the buttons, and some motions were impossible on button controls.
Huge difference being, buttons did the same damage, and if you were still learning the game, you were forced to use them if you wanted to stand a chance.
A much, much less immersive much less and fun control system.
And the sticks weren't about complicated inputs that you had to remember at all, quite the opposite, even.
Want to to a hook? Draw a hook with the joystick.
Want to do a straight/jab? Draw a line with the joystick.
Not quite the same thing as Modern/Classic in SF6, which just fixes what has always been just bad game design.
As someone who has never been good at the more complicated commands i always saw most fighting games as out of reach for me, But playing SF6 with modern controls has made me able to actually enjoy myself.
Hopefully you will get out of your baby stage, and upgrade to classic.
@@ShawnMenchaca If he doesn't enjoy concentrating on pressing buttons rather than enjoying the game that's his choice
I concur man
Same, I like watching FG videos while I multitask and have a decent grasp of the game but I simply don't have the free time to spend hours labbing to get the muscle memory/reaction time needed for more complex inputs. Modern controls let me play at a reasonably competitive level where my knowledge of the game helps compensate for my lack of practice at piloting a character
try tekken! thats a fightning game where you dont need kinda precise controls like sf and still pull up a juggle combos
If anything, it all comes down to practice and honing skills and senses. Ryu's been teaching that for the past 36 years. Best thing to do is take each loss in stride and figure what you could have done and make adjustments accordingly. Same goes for any game you can think of
I once played sf6 with my uncle who was an old school fighter back when sf4 was around on the xbox, I handed him a controller to play with modern controls then he asked if he can switch back cuz it feels weird. So I switched it back to classic, let him remember his buttons again and he proceeds to wipe the floor with me with Ryu like he did when I was a kid. It was fucking awesome and terrifying
There's a certain flow state to Classic. It does take a lot of grinding and muscle memory to achieve at first-but like riding a bike, it just feels so right when it becomes second-nature. Modern feels extremely weird to me because I've played SF on-and-off for decades already. To me, the inputs are part of the experience and flow of combat.
In other words, if I was that uncle, I'd do the same thing!
i've never had a problem doing the special moves. it's the timing of linking the basic chains into "combos" that I've always had trouble with; and that's what Modern controls are helping me with.
If You want to be a competitive player You need Classic controls. Classic controls make you to understand the real science behind This Game. Classic controls offer better ways to connect successfully better attacks. Modern controls are for people who like This Game but don't have enough patience to learn command moves or manual combos. I play Street Fighter since Street Fighter 2 When I was 12 years old. Now I'm 36 years old 😏
I can understand why lower levels would feel that way though. Some classic control players are not exactly pro level. I for example still struggle with the spacing, with inputs, with the combos, and timings but I still prefer playing classic, It’s just my preference and am trying to get good at it. Modern controls however bypasses special inputs and combos with easier execution so the player can focus on other things to get good at. Not saying it’s a bad thing, in fact it’s really good, but to a casual classic player it can feel like a handicap fighting modern.
Max is that dude (no pun intended). Your ability to eloquently deliver your thoughts in a digestible way, while remaining unbiased and objective is the reason why I am a fan and tune into your channel. And not just for the streaming stuff, it’s just to hear what you have to say, cuz the fighting game community very much values your input. Appreciate you sir!
Modern controls have its positives but the positives that classic offers far outmatch it.
Also, i purchased a fight stick beacuse my hands simply cannot handle using a D-Pad on controller. So mad respect to controller users. Y'all are beasts
I use the control stick for the controller
I just can't do the z move consistently
@@thanhpt0105 its not a Z dawg its called a Dragon Punch. 623
@@nlm7033I think everyone understands what he means… z motion is another common term for it
@@thanhpt0105you can double tap crouch forward and it should execute just fine. Forward, down, forward also works.
I think it's more of an issue at low ranks because of auto combos rather than special move inputs, since they act as sorta pseudo-auto-hitconfirms into 30~40% combos ending in super where you can mash the initial poke/button, and ends in damage way above what almost all bronze and iron players playing classic can do.
However you usually burn a lot of meter if the opponent is blocking, I still think it *feels* busted and classic players don't have even close to that level of damage on random jabs at bronze.
Exactly. I’m surprised he missed this point
@@JaymesaMissed or intentionally ignored? 👀
@@justlloyd7881Oh please
This was my problem at first, for sure. I lost almost every placement match, so I have actually played from Rookie rank up to Silver 5 (so far), and I definitely had the hardest time at first because I committed to playing classic. All the modern players could do combos, I could not. At that stage, I simply would have to win neutral more often, and against players who I couldn't predict at the time. Where I'm at now it's not really an issue, but I do feel if I get even better I might get a little salty about one button supers.
Modern has helped my friends who were never interested in FGs to play the game and made my transition from DBFZ to SF6 a whole lot smoother. Plus it makes old heads mad when I beat them so W’s all around.
Same! I have never played SF. Many other fighting game has modern controls including Mortal Kombat. And it’s beloved.
@dinkleberg2871most of my experiences with ppl being a dick to me for using modern come from fans of older FGs. I know this cause they won’t shut up about it
@@johkerx9107Ive been playing fighting games since the 90's and i love modern controls so not all the OG players think the same.
@@aegismalkav8057 and I respect and appreciate the OGs that support modern and new players! I was just speaking to my experiences not trying to say all of them are bad sports
If You want to be a competitive player You need Classic controls. Classic controls make you to understand the real science behind This Game. Classic controls offer better ways to connect successfully better attacks. Modern controls are for people who like This Game but don't have enough patience to learn command moves or manual combos. I play Street Fighter since Street Fighter 2 When I was 12 years old. Now I'm 36 years old 😏
I started SF6 with classic controls on my keyboard and after weeks of playing it, it actually started to drastically affect the health of my hands and fingers in seriously unpleasant ways which wasn't very gucci given SF6 is a really fucking fun game and i had to outright take WEEKS of it until the knuckles and my joints started feeling better. I tried my controllers with classic controls and it just wasn't doing it. I didnt exactly get the precisious i was looking for and heavy attacks on triggers just didnt do it for me. Rashid comes out and i decided that i would finally give modern controls a shot and despite being the "simpler" controls, it took me quite a bit of use-to because i had to re-learn my mains to some degree and get used to the new layout but through it all i realized something:
Modern control characters does significantly less damage compared to their classic counterparts. So even the argument that you only need half of the work for special moves and such falls flat because you still need to play carefully, work in combos and time them properly to do a fraction of the damage a classic character does. And some cases, some moves are enhanced or only available behind certain motion inputs EVEN in classic controls and the game rewards you for pulling those. Honestly i had a lot of fun with modern controls so far because it still requires some degree of work but it allows you to focus on strategy and timing without destroying your fingers pulling off the moves and such. I've really been enjoying it.
I'm just angry at Modern Controls, because apparently that's the reason I can't give my World Tour avatar BOTH Ken's Shoryuken AND Dragonlash Kick, even though DP+P and DP+K are clearly TWO different commands. 🤷♂
Classic controls will ALWAYS be "better" because it leverages to/from other fighting games. But it's nice to know that the big FG franchises are taking a page from Smash Bros, because there was a time when Smash was discredited as a "fighting game" (while Nintendo was clearly ahead of the trends in simplifying FG controls). 😉
Great analysis from Max.
I play with Classic controls not because I want to be cool or something but because that's how I play the game from previous installments.
I'm already using it for a long time so it's very hard for me to go on modern controls.
I tried using modern controls but I'm not fit for that kind of controls.
On the other hand I'm not really good at fighting games but love playing it ever since I was a kid.
To be honest when I'm seeing someone using modern controls challenging me on cabinets or ranked match I always feel nervous. As far as I remember I'm always defeated by Zangief and Marisa players using modern controls. I guess I suck on playing fighting games 😂 a skill issue on my end haha
I had the same issue. I'm gonna try modern controls, because I love learning new ways to play, however it is very difficult when I'm used to the classic controls and mess up my inputs
@@1meen1 it's great to know there are other people just like me. I am totally learning the modern controls now to increase my knowledge of the game. I think it's cool to learn something for fun.
But seriously I don't hate players using Modern Controls. I found them more interesting to adapt on something that I'm having a hard time.
If You want to be a competitive player You need Classic controls. Classic controls make you to understand the real science behind This Game. Classic controls offer better ways to connect successfully better attacks. Modern controls are for people who like This Game but don't have enough patience to learn command moves or manual combos. I play Street Fighter since Street Fighter 2 When I was 12 years old. Now I'm 36 years old 😏
@@edgarcedeno9291I see modern for casual and classic for competitive. But that doesn’t mean they’re exclusive to either way’s of playing. There are probably people who play modern controls at a high level and those who play classic at a low level. I don’t see the hate behind modern when it could relieve stresses for experienced players and bring in new players.
Been waiting max’s opinion on this!
Modern or classic controls. There are pros and cons with either option, but ultimately, it depends on the player's preference. I like your take on the modern controls versus classic controls argument, Max. There are too many people with an elitist mindset.
It’s not an elitist mind set to be honest.
There is some viable critic that is relevant.
I’m fine with modern controls. If it helps grow the FGC.
But it is undeniable that kids nowadays are lazy to learn.
Inputs are not rocket science.
There is no gatekeeping.
If SF6 would be only modern controls the game would be incredibly limited and would never get the praise it does. It would be an entirely casual game.
So modern controls are fine by me. But people playing actual controls definitely have the right to speak out against it.
It’s like removing dribbling from basketball as a choice.
Execution is part of a fighting games the same way as aiming is in a FPS game.
I am happy for new players joining the FGC and welcome them.
But they shouldn’t be so self entitled and arrogant to think that the controls are outdated just because they are not willing to practice them.
@@lightup6751 so basically bc you practiced something and learned to do it you think everyone else has to do the same? you played classic and learned it. and so bc you did that you think you "definitely have the right to speak out against" modern controls. that sounds more arrogant and self entitled than the ppl who think a 90s 6 button control scheme with motion inputs is outdated for console gaming. it sounds like you AND these "self entitled" complainers are both arrogant. who cares what controls ppl use just play the game
@@lightup6751 I would like to disagree with this "lazy to learn" argument. It seems a little bit off. I am not an SF fan, I like the characters but never been good at it and I think I'll never will, I know that SF is not my priority in life and not even my favorite game, TEKKEN and DBFZ is where I came from. But this SF6 modern control scheme pulled me in (not to mention the character creation too, I wish they implement normalization for versus so we can use it without avatar effect and massive stats bonus) because it gives me way to enjoy the game that I don't initially enjoy, this is not about lazy.
I am having fun with the game now, I might never be that good in SF but I am having fun, this is what matters most when we play video games imo, I'm a casual gamer at heart and there is no need for me to put myself in a challenging situation in a game I don't initially enjoy. I am also glad that Max pointed out that usually the complaints come from low ranks in the early stage of this video, I have been thinking about that for quite a while now, because if people play really competitively and they're damn good at what they do in classic control scheme, they don't really complain about the 'easier but crippled' modern control. They would cringe at the thought of losing some of the strongest tool they might have in classic control scheme only to get speed advantage over special moves executions.
Addressing your concern about self-entitled and arrogant players who said classic control is outdated and so on, that is a whole different issue. This feels like you're just angered by their uninformed comments and this is where the "elitist" image came upon you when you told them "You're lazy and not willing to practice", because in my view as a modern control user (can't say the same for everyone else though, this is just my personal view): I don't really care, why should I be dilligent over something that I have never cared about? This is why we see people who bash modern control users, as elitist. Especially when they spit out the 'lazy' comment.
If you run into any arrogant modern user, just prove it in the game and beat the shit out of them, their comments won't matter at all when in the end: Classic wins over Modern control. They can't just wipe out Classic scheme with their thoughts, can they?
If otherwise people with classic are eventually getting their ass beaten by Modern scheme even in the higher rank or pro stage by a really big ratio, then we'll talk about this again.
The "Elitist" argument is such BS, I'm an "Elitist" because I'm not a fan of Modern on lower ranks? Because I think Modern is maybe a bit too strong on lower ranks? I know I'm not great at the game, I play classic, and by Max's words that makes me an Elitist Snub? Fuck that. There are legitimate arguments to be made, especially for some characters.
I don’t agree that doing inputs is what makes you “good qt street fighter” obviously, but it’s a little disingenuous to say input it have nothing to do with skill. Execution under pressure is a decent sized chunk of what can make someone a strong street fighter player, knowing how much drive you have, they have, how much bar you have, they have, how much health you have, they have, and doing slightly complex inputs during all this is the magic of it.
I still feel really really proud if I get an optimal combo in a high stress situation, I did not have the same feeling when I dipped into modern, 1 button DP felt downright unfair since I was only in low to mid ranks, and 1 button super can be insane on some characters, and is still good on the rest.
I guess I half agree half disagree, the inputs aren’t what makes you good at street fighter, and anyone who says so is delusional, but dis issue them as easy and not even important is just as delusional in my opinion, it’s a part of the pie, regardless of how big the slice.
Also I am a little confused that you shame the “basement warrior” you said, and claimed that do not inpits is not a big deal and is not something to be proud of, which is fine, but in the next sentance you then say modern is made for the people who can’t do inputs and their fingers bleed, but if Tis so easy that it’s nothing to be proud of why not just have the new players learn them, they’ll pick it up in minutes if it’s as simple as stated.
For the record I am from be with modern, I just kind of find the dismissal of opinions by pa ntand no them as egoists is real lame, some people don’t want to see their old favorite series changed and watered down, some are in the middle, and some are idiots, and many more in between, silly to paint people with a single stroke cause you disagree.
For me specifically, this is the first fighting game Im putting tons of time into at 27 years old. At first I tried modern just to see how my main (juri) played, But now I'm full into modern with her. I already knew how to do motion inputs after putting a month or 2 into SF5 before the release of 6, I just have a really hard time stringing combos together because I've never been good at it or needed to do it. This helps me do the one thing I massively suck at while I can do the motion inputs for specials and supers to do max damage when needed. I actually get to enjoy a fighting game now, and could give a shit less if people think modern is for bad players only.
Just a tip. “main” is used for your favorite character among many that you tried.
It's not only for bad players but make no mistakes that is partly what it's for lol 😂
Both are ok, just love the game.
Small reminder that you can do motion inputs on Modern.
...and it won't nerf your damage! Modern is the perfect way for new players to dip their toes into classic Street Fighter execution, without getting thrown in the deep end and discouraged.
iv been saying this to my friends and they still shit on me for it. like wtf do you want me to do? bind the other 2 buttons to shoulder and trigger?? so god damn weird
Funny enough, you literally can't get the most out of modern without using motion inputs.
@@Phoenix6942-7 yup.
I always leave Juri QCF heavy kick in my back pocket as the ultimate mix. People assume you don't know motion inputs if you use modern, and are never prepared for the moves they think you can't throw out.
@actuallynotsteve lol. That reminds me of a time one guy lost his shit when he saw me use ex tatsu on Modern Ken.
Max being based as per usual
I honestly believe he thinks that Modern is kinda dumb. Because he came from a generation that played fighting games but didn’t give up on day one because it takes time to master a game. A lot of kids today complain about fighting games and drop it because they are overwhelmed or lazy to learn. But he also knows that his channel by now is mostly casuals and new players. So he plays both sides which is smart. He wants to grow the FGC after all.
Im all for modern if it grows the FGC as well. But yeah, it’s a bit sad that modern is needed to bring in players. Controls were never an issue since SF2
@@lightup6751 they were tho. I can't stand quarter circle inputs but I did em cause I liked the game. I'm sure a lot of people dropped street fighter because of the motion inputs.
@@lightup6751 kinda funny how you say you're not an elitist but yet you're under multiple comments going off about how people are "lazy" for not wanting to put in time on a video game 💀that's 1 to 1 what it means to be an elitist
@@yl3716
No, it’s not. I suggest you brush up on your knowledge on the term. An elitist is defined by supporting a system or view that a system should be led by an elite.
I never said or thought that fighting games should be led by better, long time players.
I am saying that people who complain about a game being too hard and demanding it to be easier, while calling players who don’t want a functioning game to be made easier “elitist”, are absolute buffoons.
It’s fine to suck at a game. We all sucked. We all learned. We all practiced and got better. Behind every pro was a casual beginner. But people sucking at a game because they don’t wanna invest time to improve and on top of that arrogantly calling players who mastered it gatekeepers are frankly a bit pathetic.
This is like a bunch of out of shape, fat kids complaining about basketball being too difficult. Then supporting the hoop lowered, dribbling and the 3 point line removed. Then calling athletes who played this game long time elitists and gatekeepers for criticizing this mentality.
I am all for modern controls, believe it or not. If it brings in more players, awesome. But the ignorance and self entitlement of some new players is what is irritating me. Wanting everything spoon fed and handed to them.
People saying that classic controls are outdated while not realizing that if SF6 ran on entirely and exclusively on modern, the game would be boring to watch. Just like basketball with low hoops, no three pointers and no dribbling.
Anyone can play modern or classic. But complaining about difficulty of a game because you don’t wanna practice is silly.
Don’t you see what I mean? Is what I’m saying really not making any sense at all to you?
I am new to the game and I did use modern, but I did recently switch to classic because I do feel like modern controls is kind of a handicap that the longer I stay with it, the harder it will be to unlearn it when I need to learn classic.
thats one of the main issues with it. it gives you a advantage on lower levels till you reach a cap and then you have to relearn everything which might be harder then when you would have started with classic in the first place.
@@ap_poNo, it would Not be harder to relearn. Because they already started to learn spacing, footsies, what stuff looks like on block and what stuff on hit looks like. Resource management and such. There are a lot of things to consider, and switching from modern to classic within a game that you are already learning is the same as spending a day remembering what to do when you switch from a SF6 to a DBFZ or a Tekken or a MK. It's not that bad.
it is a literal handicap because you lose some moves.
if it wasn't everyone would use modern.
Honestly, switching between the two isn't that bad as you can use modern to learn motions while still having access to instant reversals when you need them. Remember, just because you're using modern doesn't mean you can't learn the motions. Everything after that is just labbing combo routes.
@@ArkticDark i talk about the input method. you have to relearn that and some of the decision making which you where allowed to do via modern is just not transfering to classic till you really mastered it. there are overall aspects of the game which of course transfer over and have nothing to do with the input method.
Im a fighting games enthusiast.
Modern got me 30-0.
Classic got me 9-0.
Modern is cheat code and a beggars game.
I want a filter to remove those scrubs from my SF6.
Modern controls are a big reason the game is as popular as it is, so if you care about this game's longevity you'll be happy they're there, otherwise you're either kind of an idiot or not nearly as good as you think you are.
This is why we love Max as a voice in the FGC.
Why do you mean?
@user-ky8nd2rz4f what did he say that made him love being the voice of fgc? modern controls not being cheap?
@@lightup6751 why? I think because Max not focus that using modern is being cheap or not, but more to bring more fans. If someone complains being lose to modern, it is not because modern is cheap, but because that person is low level and not enough labbing
@@rezarhd86 i agree that modern controls is important to bring new people on. I play SF since SF2 in the 90s. a modern player won’t beat me. but there absolutely should be an option to choose to play against same control scheme or all control schemes like cross play.
and no, that isn’t true. on the highest level yes, modern won’t ever hold a candle to classic.
but on low to mid level of play modern definitely has an advantage.
especially all beginners that use classic will get bodied by beginner on modern.
the learning curve between classic and modern isn’t the same and there is reliable evidence to reinforce that claim.
if there is two new players that never touched a fighting game the one on modern will demolish the one in classic. new players should have the choice to learn against people with their same controls.
I think there's a sweet spot that devs haven't figured out yet. Something that simplifies the inputs (and also reduces time to do said input) while retaining the entirety of the moveset each character has to offer.
There's a couple methods I've in mind like:
1. Change motion buttons to where it's 1-2 motions + a button. Like instead of fireball being down > diagonal > forward (3 motions), make it just forward with said button. Dp meanwhile being the diagonal and so on. For command normals, you can just work around them via other motions or multi buttons.
2. Have your buttons be normal the way they are but add 2 special buttons which, when pressed along with a normal will give you a special. Like let's say it's L1 (special button) + triangle for slow fireball. We add forward motion into the input, like
L1 + forward + Triangle, we get Dp.
I would be so, _so_ down for something like this. Designing inputs and/or commands that, while respecting the feel of character specific actions to come out and _reward_ the player for proper execution, they are *not required* for someone to not only play the game, but to be good at it too.
While Modern does go a long way to help beginners, I think the discussion about them typically glosses over those who are "casually competitive" and prefer Modern so they can focus on their fundamentals and decision making rather than all the buttons.
I've played fighting games for over a decade, and I'm pretty decent: won some locals, placed okay bigger tournaments, and get a moderately high rank online. I can do all the specials perfectly fine in most situations, and most of the specials I do use are manually input. But Modern helps me to smooth out some of the rough edges (hit confirms, reaction anti-airs, supers, etc.), and more importantly, it feels SO MUCH BETTER playing a "4-button" fighter on pad than a 6-button fighter.
And lastly, as someone who is eagerly awaiting Project L, I think building skill and muscle memory around 4 buttons with direction input specials/supers will make transitioning to that game much easier.
I feel the same way. I do not struggle with motion inputs, it's the 6 button layout that doesn't click with me especially when I'm on pad. I got to celestial on GGST and I still play on modern because its just more comfortable.
This! People leave out the argument that a lot of newer fighters come from 4 button fighters with gamepads in mind because fightsticks aren’t practical for many people. It’s more accommodating if anything, and I hate people being upset by having others be simply accommodated. It’s LITERAL gatekeeping.
same here, i play other fighting games, im only "noob" on SF i have no problem with motion inputs but im more use to 4 buttons layout, even 5 some times so i go modern, but 6 dedicated normals buttons plus Parry and DI command feels sooo intentionally over-complicated and unnecesary to me, i dont want to be disrespectful with legacy players but classic squeme looks out of date and unnecessary imo and lets be honest, if capcom wanted they could compress the classic squeme to 4 buttons using the already unused existing directions but clearly they cannot touch the classic squeme cuz that would unleash ww3, they already unleashed a civil war with modern
In Silver when i run into a Modern Control User i just think "welp, he got a better execution than me so i cant fuck it up." Im happy that is helping a lot of people to get in the game.
I just love how this is breaking the barrier between what move to make and HOW to perform that move.
I played the demo a few times and tried out both control types and I could feel the difference between them. Although I'm not "new" to the fighting genre, I don't have the know-how to pull combo strings into specials or any lingo you may think of, and as one might guess I have no arcade stick.
MODERN feels a lot more welcoming to controller and the casual player for sure, and I'd even say that starting from there I kinda feel the urge to try and master CLASSIC even on a controller! The idea of those flashy combos being "possible" goes a long way into changing a casual player perspective of the game and encouraging them to try and learn the more difficult and optimal routes to dish out damage.
All in all, SF6 felt like THE GAME for me that like the genre but never felt too hyped to jump into such a game because it felt more difficult than it was fun. Now I can fun AND challenge myself. Couldn't ask for more.
Something else to consider for Modern controls: it's literally an accessibility issue. There are people who literally cannot physically do motion inputs for more than maybe a couple matches, or are neurodivergent and can't remember the motion input for every special move their character has. Modern controls may not necessarily solve all those issues, but it certainly makes it a _hell_ of a lot easier for a _lot_ of people.
the issue is not modern but that they allow it in ranked. just allow modern and dynamic for casual play. opens up the gate for online play for much more people and you hear no bitching from people who are more competitive and want to play ranked with classic.
@@ap_po What rank are you?
@@ap_pothis comes across as: “People with disability shouldn’t play ranked.”
@@ap_powhy should those who use modern controls be barred from an aspect of the game they purchased? If those who wish to play competitively are complaining about Modern controls then they either need to get better in dealing with those players or switch to modern controls themselves. The people who complain about modern controls are those that either suck playing against them or are fgc snobs with their heads up their ass about something they weren't gonna use anyway. The upper echelons of players use classic, which means they fought a sea of modern controls users and won.
@@nojusticenetwork9309 maybe because of the same reason people who purchased the game and want to use dynamic are not allowed to do so? where are you trying to get them into ranked mode so that they can play the game they purchased? there are plenty of reasons why it shouldnt be a thing but lets discuss about that after you fought for dynamic player to have the same right ;)
I find modern controls to help me with actual combo structuring. I can do most inputs manually, and do so for the added damage, but having that more condensed control scheme helps me embrace and learn more characters.
modern controls actually lets me do shit instead of jabbing the air for half a min
I think the bit about equating special moves to bring good is important. Combos are important, but it's the easiest part to learn. The hard part is getting the touches, or whiff punish or whatever so you actually have the opportunity to land the combo.
Special moves being easier to combo into does not matter due to the damage reduction, which pairs with normal combo scaling. This means that even though long strings of specials are easy, the end result is that you probably end up doing as much as a shorter combo on classic. At the same time, it means at high level, you will never be able to match the damage on a punish as someone on classic.
That means there's really one major difference. Access to supers, which is much easier on modern, vs more damage in combo and punish situations on classic. Of course there are smaller nuances, but I think that this is the biggest discrepancy between the two.
As someone who wants to get slightly better at SF finally since this is the most accessible so far, I struggle with inputs and frame 1 links really badly. Coming from Tekken 7 to this just crushes me because I feel my hands on my pad just killing my hands for how fast inputs have to be and constantly dropping hit in trials makes the learning process very frustrating. I feel like I'm doing the move correctly, but the game says so other wise. Couldn't doing some it hurts my hands and makes me want to switch to Modern, but I don't like the trade-off of using the characters kit fully. So I'm torn between the choice of the controls to best suit my hands and help learn my how to actually make combos land.
Have exactly the same problem (except i didnt played tekken). After a while of think about the options in controls and controllers I choosed to buy a leverless fight stick. It did not arrived yet. So I play with pad and classic control and ignore the pain at my thumbs as good as I can lol
choose your hands. you only get one pair of em, don't mess them up just for a fighting game. if you want to stick with classic though just try slowing it way down and/or working your way into flashier combos by starting with the simple stuff. i do not think any combo in this game requires speed that would hurt your hands, you are probably going too fast.
@@PvtPotato92 it's not carpal tunnel or anything like that, it's the quickness of inputs required for some of the combos that just wears on my thumbs sometimes. Plus it feels like you have to do combos unbearable fast in the trials to even get it come out. And even when I know for an ABSOLUTE FACT I'M PRESSING THE INPUT CORRECTLY, it does not come out. It's frustrating af.
we've had something similar since MVC1 where it had easy controls and that helped me get into fighting games and have fun as a 6 year old. Over time i learned how to do different special attack motions like fireballs and charge motions. I still struggle with dp motions sometimes like i actually have to think about doing it, but that's just cos I've been a Chun-li main for years and haven't had to use them as much
My problem with modern is not the special move inputs but the auto combo feature… when you get hit by a modern player you just know they’re getting a full combo (damage scaled but still) without human error. DNF did it right, you still have to do the combos but can simplify the inputs if you want to
just don't get hit by unsafe combos then? I'm fairly sure -all- the auto combos are NOT safe. Not only that, some characters will literally burn thru drive gauge regardless of how much they have and those combos do not work when burned out lol (like, Luke's combos literally stop working when he's in burnout)
Just fucking parry if you are so afraid of combos. Or even Drive Impact them
@@Paronak nigga I know how to play the game I’m talking in general about the mechanic, It’s weak. I said what I said, DNF did it right point blank period
@@AirDavy01 some are safe and can be used to frame trap just depends on the character some have really bad auto combos
I would like to point out that the modern auto combos do not get the 20% damage nerf
M Controls have allowed me to learn Street Fighter while still having fun and doing cool things. As I put more time into the game I slowly become better/more comfortable with the classic inputs I can put in while still on M Controls. I hope this never leaves cause it's gonna build a future player base
You are out of touch on low tier because doing special moves isnt even the issue.
Its those who struggle in classic versus modern one button mashing.
1. You admitted to never using modern.
2. You stated higher tier dont have many if any modern.
Its because they smashing lower tier victims.
I guess you are skilled but please never teach people. You forgot what it was like.
Like I said you learn classic you can go anywhere and be cool competent.
Before the whine I will simplify it.
It's not the controls. It's the low tier users with a god complex griefing others.
Jiyuna made a list of which characters really benefit from modern controls, I think it's pretty accurate.
If anybody wonders how they'll get good at fighting games, all you need to do is follow three not so simple steps:
1. Devote a couple hours to learning a game's frame data, at least for your main, and how much you can do before a reset. Knowing when your turn is up is the most important part of neutral.
2. Find your own combos. Trials help with basic stuff, but optimal combos may be too hard for you, and that's alright. A true bread and butter combo is one that you're very confident to not drop.
3. Play the game. Only other players can give you the experience to fight against them. You'll learn to respect moves, measure hitboxes and distance yourself from dangerous situations. There's still some decision making to be had, but you'll get used to it.
If a game broke down all these things for each character, I'd be more receptive. But once you start getting into frame data & having to look up all that stuff online, I check out.
@@corey2232 I THINK DBFZ covers everything in its tutorial, it was the first fighting game I actually learned to play in depth.
There are people in top 500 using modern. It's completely viable on most characters. Some you lose so much that it's really hard to play well (like dhalsim). Some lose almost nothing of value (lily). And you can still do motion inputs to get full damage so I really don't even see it as a downgrade if you know what you're doing.
Heck even pro players were experimenting with it. Tokido was playing modern Luke for a while.
This is yhe only problem i see with this new control scheme is its going to require a whole lot of balancing to teally make it fair as of right now modern is like you said only viable on so many char and sone it works better than even classic so its kind of a can of worms that they have opened with this new model controls
I main JP and its physically impossible for me to do his special moves in classic so I play modern so I can actually do combos and play the game. I don't care what anyone thinks because I want to play JP since hes a cool character and I actually want to have fun.
5:19 of course the controller is falling apart, it's a Razer.
Is there ANY fighting game that actually tries to elevate the player by teaching them how to actually do the motion inputs instead of just simplifying the controls? Why don't fighting games teach that?
While there aren’t enough modern commands to cover all of certain characters’ moves, you can still input classic commands when using modern controls. You can even tilt your control stick while pressing buttons to use alternate normals. A huge thing to note: putting in classic commands, while using modern controls, will allow you to get the move off without suffering a damage penalty.
I'm guessing you can't bypass the damage penalty to normals, else Modern really would be broken compared to Classic.
@@CarbonRollerCacoI don’t think normals don’t have a damage penalty
Great take on the situation. I personally use modern controls because I'm not really experienced with fighting games and have always played them against CPU, but with the modern controls I tried going online for the first time and I'm having an absolute blast. Even though I still get my teeth kicked in regularly in silver, the way the game feels to play is just so much fun
I do complain about modern controls, but only cause of this 3:56 . Luke's fireball at max range takes 23 frames (about 1/3 of a second). That's how many frames a modern player would have for them to react, while a classic player also needs enough additional frames to input it (for me its like 20 frames). I feel like this can remove certain possible pressure strings and specials from neutral. I rarely see modern players, but its frustrating to play against most of those matches.
When I played as Ken on modern. Both me and my brother very quickly realized just how much easier is to shoryuken on reaction, to the point where I wouldn't be surprised if there's situations where reacting with a special is only possible thanks to modern controls.
I play with modern control and I still practice doing the motion inputs for special moves sometimes because it deals more damage. I use the special button mostly in neutral if I need a quick reaction to an opponent jumping in or throwing a fireball for exemple. I like the 3 buttons configuration for normals, even though I lose some moves for my character, because 6 buttons is a bit overwhelming for me.
The complaint from lower ranks is it makes it a lot harder to practice and good at classic controls because you not playing against a bunch of other people who are bad a classic controls anymore. So while you are trying to learn combos and special moves you getting stomped by people who can do them for free.
It the same thing in FPS games when you play against champions that don't need to aim. There is no good place for people learn how to aim because everyone is getting stomped by the heroes that don't need to aim in the lowest ranks.
maybe those people could also play modern, they can do both motions and specials and auto and manual combos, then switch back to classic when they get consistent with their inputs... or maybe not, maybe they find out that modern is perfectly fine for them
If they can't do special inputs yet, that's a growing pain, plain and simple. Nothing is stopping them from using modern controls, but as they are willingly doing the thing that is harder for long term gain, they should expect hardships.
These people who are too casual to not realize but simultaneously not casual enough to just go and pick modern controls is a very small market
@@Amaling Which creates a fed back loop until everyone in Bronze and Silver feel they MUST use M controls.
I definitely understand the frustration of thinking "my opponent doesn't have to work for their higher damage combos and they can't drop them like me" but what's beautiful about low level gameplay in any competitive game is its so open. There are so many things that can be upgraded in each players gameplay that sure they might have higher damage combos but you can develop your gamesense and general strategy to beat them. Then as you level up you can implement better combos. If you're smart about how you approach things, jab jab special can take you a pretty long ways if you start in rookie
exactly this. i'm a beginner classic player with no interest in modern because I think it's boring to use, but the fact that other beginner players use it makes it far more difficult for me to advance while learning the game
The silly thing is, I'm a pretty casual player but eventually I was able to do special moves somewhat consistently.
But I still get fed up trying to practice combos, and as nice as it is to have a Smash-style direction + button input method, that doesn't help with actually capitalizing on a clean hit. In the end it's still a very fun genre, but I'm just the type of person that prefers to improve through research and experimentation than rote practice, and as well as I might understand a game, I can't compete if my hands can't manipulate the controller quickly and accurately enough. Modern controls just closes that gap a little more, and I appreciate it.
However, I ADMIT that I'm bad at fighting games, and at least I'm not a baby about it xD
Only thing that annoys me when playing against modern are the anti airs, they are way too easy to execute while I'm struggling with the consistence of hitting them in classic.
Until you go against a modern gief
Then use modern yourself… problem solved, n keep practicing classic in training till ur comfortable
@@makiah_speople have honor
I tried to do modern controls once, it threw me off actually so much, I was so used to the 6 buttons for this game and was not used to doing things with smash inputs, I’ve played 4 button fighters before but they still have inputs which honestly just feels more natural to me, I am glad that people are getting into the game through it and more power to them, it’s just not for me, the only time I see it as unfair a bit is with charge characters since they can do their moves without charging but even then it’s only a minor gripe that only I might have 😅
Charge characters still have to charge in Modern. if you try pressing down + special on guile at the same time, a Somersault kick will never come out. you have to hold down for a second before it actually happens. Subsequent kicks, however, can be done immediately afterwards as long as you keep holding down since as far as the game is concerned, your charge and release directions are the same.
oh really? I didn’t realize that, that is neat to know though, thank you for the explanation
I don't think so.
I've been through that, I had my FGC moment 10 years ago, played with my buddy for 1 year nearly every fighting game and watched EVO together. We had a good time but played other games till now. I came back a few month ago, playing SF6, MK1 at the moment and waiting for Tekken 8. Had a MadCatz SF4 Fightstick back then and had miss inputs with that too, felt better as the pad still doing specials wasn't easy.
#1
One of the biggest things and fun things in fighting games are combos, with Modern you can do them easily.
Which means combos win you games, if my opponent misses his DP. I wanna do max damage and if I can't do Light, Light, Medium into whatever special into maybe ult or whatever, because I drop the combo and even get punished. I feel awful. I think I trained more in SF4 as I really played, to do those damn FADC into ult combos.
With Modern I can do it easily. Modern isn't good because you can punish crossovers with DP, we talk about Iron+ ranks here, most players don't even know what this is or position themself right. Doing special moves doesn't automatic makes you win but still, with that out of my head, I can concentrate on the game, look for weaknesses, learn and can punish them.
#2
Another Controller/Fightstick/Leverless or whatever can 100% make you better. Thanks to MK1 controls I can play well on pad and do good combos, SF6 (Classic) on the other hand is a nightmare with pad. I jump when I don't wanna jump, specials won't come out. I bought a Leverless around a month ago which was hard to get for PS5/PC in Germany and cost me 380€ but I wanted to test it and send it back if it's not for me or lost interest in FGs. I immediately felt the difference, no more wrong inputs and after around 2 weeks I felt very comfortable with it.
I got better in MK1 from Warrior to Master and I was stuck in Silver (SF6) with (M) pad and switch to (C) with Leverless, because of SF4 it wasn't that hard to remember the inputs and it felt natural with Leverless. I'm Gold now can't do crazy combos but they do way more dmg, the -20% dmg from (M) really hurts you.
Not saying you need a Leverless to be good but test of is best for you, and for me it was 100% a Leverless.
I mean Justin Wrong's first tip to get better is learn your executions and don't drop your BnB combos.
Modern is an amazing way to join SF6 and switch later or stay on Modern if you want.
They just need to remove the indicator that shows you what controls your opponent is using. If the game stops calling attention to it, maybe there'll be fewer scrubquotes about it.
I'm kind of a weird case because I've been playing since World Warrior and I prefer modern controls.
My issue has never been executing special moves, but rather getting good with combos. With modern, I have three basic combos that I can pull off depending on my meters, freeing my mind up to focus on poking, resource management, and overall tactics.
The lack of having to pretzel my old fingers around, while still being able to do cool sh*t and have fun, is a huge win for me. 😁
Even Darksyde Phil (who I've heard is an EVO finalist) consistently drops combos and special move inputs. I feel like Modern controls might be good for him too.
He did nothing wrong. He did everything correct lmao
DSP is the pinnacle of pathetic gamers. He literally still uses lag as an excuse when the majority of online bitrates have negated that.
he once cried about a dee jay using modern controls beating him when using modern controls on dee jay is almost a detriment since you still have to charge your moves lol
I'm still SHOCKED that man makes enough of a living to have better housing than most and blows a ton on gacha, yet STILL fails to have a decent streaming setup.
@@KetsubanSolo You mean you don't attend the chill, positive streams he does and have meaningful conversations with him?
For me, the better option is what's going to finally allow me to enjoy a fighting game especially one as fun as Street Fighter 6 and that's what Modern Controls does for me. I'm not good at inputs and combos so no matter how much I practiced I could never pull them off properly in a match with previous titles so I'd end up just doing arcade modes, training and fight low level AI. The introduction to these controls made me step into ranked matches for the first time in a fighting game and feel confident and enjoy myself.
Also in regards to stick vs controller, Max is absolutely right about people shaming or trash talking someone using a controller. I was a part of a fighting game club back in college in 2011 and man the looks and trash talking from people when two of my friends would whip out their controllers when asked to do a 1v1 and the best part is my friends won majority of their matches as well.
He HATH FINALLY SPOKEN.
So everyone, STOP bitching about it and go enjoy this amazing fighting game the way YOU want to and don’t let anyone else tell you otherwise😂😂
Sincerely: Someone who’s very tired of hearing of the whole Modern vs Classic Slander either way😂😂
Modern controls are fine they just shouldn't be allowed in real competition. These competitions are supposed to be for skilled players who should know how to do the moves. Also, modern controls should only match up with modern. If skilled players are preferring modern controls then something is so good about modern controls that outweigh the "advantages" of classic. The game should be designed in such a way that the disadvantage of modern controls are so much that a skilled player with classic will beat a person with modern. If this isn't the case perhaps they could nerf the damage to 30% instead of 20%. If people don't like that than learn to play the game. You should feel REWARDED for classic controls, not like you are gimping your self by using them.
Modern Controls in SF6 is what finally managed to let me get into a fighting game and actually feel like I'm managing to play the game. Everytime I've tried to get into a cool fighting game in the past I would just get overwhelmed by trying to consistently pull of specials or do even basic combos that my brain had no time to process the actual fight and react to other people. Would just spend my entire time getting bodied while unable to do literally anything and then I'd get so frustrated I'd quit.
Modern Controls simplifying a lot of mechanical stuff finally lets me actually play the game and focus on the actual fundamentals of learning how to react to opponents. I still get my ass kicked by people better at the game than me but now I at least feel like I'm learning and making progress instead of banging my head against the wall.
I'd definitely say this is missing the point a bit. I've been climbing out of Gold and it's been alright, but when I was down in silver and dropping my combos a lot, I'd come across these Modern controls and their auto-combos would let them get so much damage out. Even if they only land the strong ones off DIs or blocked DPs or the like, when I did the same back dropping the combos just meant they had better damage output. Even then, they actually were doing more advanced combos than me, I can't do Ken's dragonlash into super that the auto combo has, I'm just bad that going from one to the other. Special moves and supers are good and all, but reliable damage for guaranteed openings is a big thing at lower ranks.
I don't blame their control method for that, but it does feel kinda shitty when you'd have won a game if you didn't drop your combos or if they had a similar combo damage output as you. It's just a matter of doing it enough til you don't really drop them, but Modern obviously lacks that aspect so I can see why people might feel a bit wronged by it.
no hate but you are the player Max is talking about in the lower ranks. you are bothered your opponent isnt making the same mistakes and bad plays as you by dropping combos and you feel they are cheating you bc their damage is easier to do but if you were just better you would have won. so why focus on the ppl using auto combos and not your own play? from what you described you were losing in silver bc you were dropping your own damage and were making mistakes to get hit by your opponent's damage. that is just a normal lost in a fighting game brother. you chose to grind out the classic learning curve that was your decision. you cant be feeling "shitty" other ppl didnt make the same decision
@@sGzBugz I mean I never said he's wrong, I said it's not about just the speical moves.
That said I also said I didn't blame the control method. I feel shitty losing to dropping the combo against classic people too, but it's very easy to note the auto combo in there as the specific area that gave them the extra damage, and I'm sure that's one of the big things these people must take issue with.
Winning the neutral and just getting less out of your punishes will never feel good, it's fine to feel shity about that, just not reasonable to blame an option you're open to use yourself.
Usually other low Silvers in Classic wouldn't have much for a punish counter, so seeing a modern control you just needed to be a lot more careful (mostly around DI) than classic controls at that level, while mid-gold it's actually usually the opposite. It's just a funny reality of it Max didn't touch on.
That's a matter of being hung up winning and losing instead of learning.
As someone that tried a few fighting games in the past it was always the special moves the made me stop since I couldn’t do them. Guilty Gear Strive was the first fighting game that I played for more than a few hours since it was more beginner friendly but even there, there were some special moves that my brain just couldn’t do (Gio Air Special for example). And Street Fighter 6 now is the first fighting game where I’m having fun since I can actually use all the moves available to me with modern controls. I gave me a reason to not be afraid of trying to learn some characters simply because I could finally do a dragon punch.
you should try out tekken7
That’s so odd to me.
When SF2 and SF3 came out in the 90s and 2000s we all sucked at inputs but we just practiced.
It’s like a sport, you can work on it
Modern Controls definitely deserve to stay, just not in its current state. The benefit it serves to beginners is very welcome, but its impact at higher ranks is definitely causing problems.
If it's sold as a way to let newbies get good at the game, then why make it just as useful to pros if not more (since they would clearly know the game better) by letting them have just as much access to Modern Controls as newbies.
If the goal should be to rake in more new players, then Modern controls should be nerfed or restricted at higher ranks and tournament play. Not needing the training wheels anymore should be a part of being good at the game. If one really was good at the game, then stripping away Modern Controls from them shouldn't make a difference.
I don't think balancing through damage and move set reduction will be all that effective either. Assuming the game balance is still the same across all ranks, buffing MC to help beginners play better will lead to higher ranking players taking advantage of this, and nerfing MC to deter unfair advantage at higher ranks may lead to it not being as useful for beginners.
I appreciate Max admitting he had to grow up from judging folks. Growth is always good. Other thoughts, if you not paying my bills, dont worry about whatever goddamn control/controller setup I use lol. Folks are full of it out there. I'm not good at it all but Max and others breakdown actually inspired me to buy this. I haven't cared or played a fighting game since MVC3.
I think it's fascinating that some characters *do* benefit from simple/modern controls. Deadpool in Marvel and Guile come to mind
Guile does not benefit from Modern.
@@azuresaiyan9005 you're telling me instant sonic booms for zoning *aren't* useful for Guile?
@@BubbyBoy charge characters are kind of strange on modern you end up still having to charge and with guile unless I'm mistaken you cant do his standing flash kick so its really not worth it
@@blinx_x9925 it's still expedited, which is powerful for a character that relies on space control for his normals like Guile
@@BubbyBoy Not with a -20 damage modifier they aren't! xD If you feel threatened by Modern controls on any character you're a pussy, and that's a *you* issue. Buff *yourself.*
I feel like there are some people out there that would make Top 20 evo with modern controls but because a lifetime of physicaly unable to do inputs or remeber combos gave up on fighting games. Hopefully other fighting games will start implementing things like this cause i truly beleive its the one thing that is holding back fighting games.
The only people who are going to make it to Evo with Modern and the pros who swapped over from Classic because it lets them do inputs inhumanly fast. There's no hidden prodigy who only now can break into Evo finals now that Modern is a thing. If you were bad at fighting games before Modern you're still going to be bad.
The only thing that makes a player good to THAT point is practice. If they didnt want to practice before they aren’t gonna practice now. It just helps people that dont care enough to lab for hours. It’ll help against silver and bronze players(like everyone good already said) but beyond that it just comes down to dedication and hours/years of practice. Again if the didnt feel like dedicating before they wont now.
Subjectively I prefer the classic controls because I'm a fightstick-using purist. But honestly? The game was clearly designed with modern controls in mind because the idea/hope was for SF6 to bring the franchise back into the mainstream after the bad PR of 5. And fair play to Capcom, it worked! SF6 is REALLY popular among a pretty wise audience right now
Modern control is important, as it's another ammo in the bag.
I lost because...
Lag
Your character is low tier, mine is low tier
And now you use modern control
And many more; LTG and DSP are very excellent pros on this. LTG with the opponent level 3 into dashboard tech is still on point from the clips I've seen.
I just wish there was an option that you could block modern users. I appreciate it's a good idea to get more new players in, I just don't have time for it personally.
Classic all day, modern makes me feel like a scrub and im cheating.
I played through world tour in modern but I have felt a bit anxious about doing online with them so I have been practicing classic. With that, I feel my basic moves feel better but I do struggle with the left to right motion. I really have enjoyed sf6 even learning classic
I don't have a problem with modern controls I just think they are stupid. I think ppl should learn how to execute combos and motions so they can get a better appreciation for the game and what it takes to be execute cool combos. When you give ppl shit too easy, they don't appreciate it. When we were younger, we would be in the lab wll day working on this same combo and when we finally got it, it felt amazing. And then you keep practicing it until you become consistent with it. Its an amazing feeling and I feel like you're robbing ppl of that experience. This isn't moreso a modern control issue as its just a society issue with a microwave generation of ppl...
Thanks for this video, i use modern controls with a xbox controller. I was about to give up on the game because everyone hates me using modern, but im not cheating. I play Dhalsim and i was told i sholud play classic and i should use a fight stick or i was cheating with dhalsim. 🤷🏿♂️. I dont like classic, because yoga flame never comes out when i need and i always get combo punishment for trying. Im staying on modern, at least i can win sometimes.
I am grateful for modern because they’re the reason I ever even tried the game. I have now moved over to learning classic cause I felt in the long run, modern would be a handicap that would be very hard to unlearn. However, I wouldn’t have gotten the game if not for them. So I thank Capcom for that! 🎉
Why don't they just add AI assisted controls if modern controls don't matter online? Modern control players should be in their own pool online. Giving macro to players then lowering their damage is not balancing.
I'm surprised you didn't mention the use of modern controls in a "hybrid" way, where you input your special moves manually (because yes, QC p is still a hadoken in modern controls) and then using some of the advantages of modern like one-button supers and faster anti-air or stuff like that.
I believe tokido was using his luke that way at some point, and oh boy, was it interesting.
why point that out when statistic show clearly that only very few players in high league using modern control. If modern control is as good or better then people will use it more. Even Tokido uses classic in recent tournament. Obviously Modern control is weaker to Classic.
I don’t mind modern controls, I just feel they don’t belong in ranked. Ranked is supposed to be where you face people of similar skill, and in my experience… people using classic like me, the matches are close…but then I get a modern player, and its almost never close, they just steamroll on by. I don’t claim to be gods gift to fighting games, I’m just an above average fighting game player, and once again this is just my experience. That being said…sure it’s frustrating, but it’s not gonna stop me from playing this incredible game.
🗣️ Let's make more fighting games with Dragonball fighterz controls!
Yes I suck with z inputs and having to remember long ass button combos with different characters.
I'd much rather play a game where every character has the same inputs and rewards players for learning how to string moves together and how to play neutral.
Ive always appreciated fighting games but the fact that most of them had too much complexity is why I never put time and effort into playing them and held off from buying many others.
Such a well-timed video for me personally. Just bought SF6 and was faced with the option between modern or classic. Ima go modern thanks to you dood.
I like modern controls! I don’t use them but because of them I’m able to play with my friends! Seeing them get inspired to get better is fun too.
One of my friends even managed to take some games off of me using modern, and it was great to see
I know I'm not great whatsoever at SF6 and am basically getting back into SF since Super SF2...but the bs about modern controls that has frustrated me while I was stuck in lower ranks was the auto-combos that they get from mashing one button...and will go into super if they have enough meter. The special moves I had down and that's whatever for modern controls. It was extremely irritating though seeing players who I know weren't really good at all beat me with auto-combos in the beginning.
I've had to grind and work to get to platinum with Ken and Dhalsim. I see far fewer M-control users now and the ones I occasionally do play against seem to not simply mash auto-combos constantly. It's still a little frustrating sometimes with the easy supers they can throw out in a pinch...but I do see myself winning against M-control users more often now. I had to learn the basics and fundamentals...and I still am tbh. At least now I feel like matches are rewarding and I can learn even from losing. In lower ranks, I felt so frustrated because I didn't feel like I was learning anything or gaining anything from playing M-control users at those ranks. I honestly think the auto-combos into super for mashing just one button over and over because you got a lucky hit or whatever is cheap. The game is doing 80% of the work at that point and the player only about 20% it seems to me. Am I wrong?
You are literally the kind of guy Max was talking about
Especially when you mentioned your frustration with what you perceived as "people who weren't good at all"
You had to make a mistake in order for them to be able to punish you. It's important to get into a mindset of viewing that as a learning experience.
i'm a casual til the day i die, but i've never had issues with the commands for specials; it's the combos that casuals don't have time for. cryptic combo systems is one the reasons i've always preferred SF to MK and modern controls are the reason i'm actually starting to wrap my head around characters like Zangief and Guile for the first time in decades. but even with the assist feature we only get like 2-3 combos and they all terminate in an EX special that can burn you out if you spam them.
if other players on modern is the difference between whether you're good or not, then from the perspective of a casual and sometimes spectator, you're just not. if you're a competitive player i would expect you to expect more from yourself. and if it still feels too unfair to you, you could always try modern controls.
Devil's Advocate: If you are in lower ranks and actually trying to learn, it can be hard on morale when EVERYTHING is optimal when using MC. The chunks of damage on such a consistent basis. Really, that's not "fair".
Reminds me of Stephanie Sterling's review that provides the insight of the neurodivergent players; those that are ACTUALLY incapable or remembering directional input/combo chains. Modern control allows them to FINALLY play and enjoy a game that has been locked out for their actual abilities.
And as Max said, it's not about the "moves," it's about zoning, reactions, and taking advantage of openings.