I love modern controls, not because I use them, I still use classic, I love them because it gives my friends easier access to the game. They aren't serious players, they are just looking for casual fun.
@@interceptingfist5682if you’ve never played a fighting game motion inputs are just cumbersome and they stop you from being able to play the game. So if someone is only going to play once in a while with friends, it’s not worth going through the struggle of learning how to do a dp
Nah sf 6 is my first fighting games im a casual gamer and my hand is not listening from what input i want why motion or quarter input is hard for me but modern control make it easier for me to fully enjoy this game i still learning classic im playing classic at bot but in rank im playing modern@@interceptingfist5682
esspecially for newer players. My friend is new and wants to stick to classic but got really frustrated when he sometimes got auto comboed for a bunch of damage. It's interesting, newer players on modern have a lot more structure compared to new classic players, giving them the edge among the chaos of rookie-bronze.
The best use I had for modern players was they force you to stay on the ground. I got less scrubby learning to beat modern players because you can't jump on them until you really build up their mental stack because basically if you, on classic, could push jab before the opponent lands a modern player can DP or ever anti-air super you. It makes you develop your ground game.
Honestly I was told that classic players have the advantage and the only time modern control has a good effect on a character it's Lilly I only beaten a classic player using Juri that's it all else I got my behind handed to me.😑
@@everlee6274 There's advantages and disadvantages either way. The advantages of classic are: 1) Your moves never sacrifice damage for easy execution 2) You have access to all of your moves. Most modern characters have a few things missing. The advantages to modern are: 1) Simple execution with the option of harder execution to deal full damage 2) Increased reaction speed due to not having to perform a motion. In practice modern is much stronger at lower levels because your reaction time can be quite a bit worse and still get things like AA DP, once you get to the level where players can do DP with classic you ALSO can't jump much because they can DP you for full damage. Virtually everyone at the highest level tried modern and dropped it because the loss in damage didn't compensate for the easy anti-airs. At that level you only get a few openings, they have to count for everything they're worth or you're losing. I did find in lower ranks that it seems many modern players are VERY on the ball with their anti-airs even if the rest of their game is lacking. So against high level players or modern controls you have to keep your feet on the ground, modern players helped me practice that.
@@WoWisdeadtome And a big disadvantage of Modern is that classic players can get a combo in or just destroy me by using dp before I can get up after being knocked down. You need panther reflexes to pull off all the inputs needed in record time in classic.
The thing most people dont know about modern. You only lose 20% damage IF you use easy input, if you do manual its 100% damage. Also there are hidden buttons, like modern guile his medium button is his MK, but if you hold the auto combo button press MK, it will be the MP, so he actually does have his both medium buttons, so he didnt lose half of buttons. And auto combo if you stop before super it does 100% damage also. Just test with guile hold auto button +heavy button he will do medium into hp into OD sonic boom for 2k damage, classic guile doing this combo does 2k damage also.
I think modern is fine apart from the supers tbh. I think the supers should all need one qcf or qcb motion. This way modern serves as an entryway into actually using motion inputs and classic controls
i think modern should stay as is for the supers because it's not very strong competitively. also modern shouldn't be an entry way into using classic controls because it is its own thing, and not just for newbies
I dont think it was ever meant to be an entry way to classic. Before the game was out every just said that because they didn't like the idea and hoped it would die off. I feel like they made it to be a legit alternate option. Ive gone between both and Like he said Youre missing half the buttons. Getting used to one makes you progressively worse at the other. I think youre just supposed to choose one.
No. The one button specials and supers are the only substantial thing going for it. Relying on those isn't getting you far. Plus, you still need to use motion inputs to even get the best of M controls.
Yeah better at pulling up one frame super, better anti air because they doesn't need to do the whole input I'm sure he was also better because they can't drop a single combo because they don't need to time it
The thing I noticed about modern players is that they don't understand neutral and are itching to use special attacks. Like a modern Lily, she ALWAYS goes for the command grab setup, DP everytime
@@TheChosen1inc i agree with that somewhat but I play with characters that have a lot of air moves like cammy and akuma and when someone can just press a button to dp at the last second where someone on classic controls would.probably have to block or get hit, it gets annoying, it's too easy to anti air, not all of us are competitive players, it's kinda lame for the rest of us.
@@TheChosen1inc modern players are exactly like the people they claim to hate, "if you cant deal with it then git gud or dont play", they didn't like it so now theyre taking it as a means to act exactly the same
3:39 here's why, when someone beats you when you see they are using a mode or controls that actively covers their weakness, this will make the player using C controls angry because they know for a fact that had then been on a full 50/50 field in terms of controls odds would have been slightly more in their favor. This in turns add a layor of doubt that the loss was well earned. This also means some people shift up their playstyle on Site of a M player because fighting a M player isn't the same for most C players because most people playing any fighting game AREN'T at a pro level and for those who want to get to a pro level by training using the lab and rank, Losing to a M player hardly if not NEVER feels good. A non-video game Example is this, Go bowling and play someone for money, You have to blow normally, the other person can pick which rail he wants up but has to switch what rail stays up (so left then right then left again as an example) yes he can still get a gutter ball, yes he can still lose but if the skill gap is basically not there and you lose. Things start to look ALOT Different, and yes in that bowling example, you could have walked away and said no, in ranked we get what we get.
I wrote a novel in the replies to the top comment, but the essence of my argument was that M hurts mid level play, and feels very limiting. It's very inorganic and forces you to play in a more rigid, less enjoyable way. It simply makes the game less fun even if you win.
For me, agreed with other comments, M players forces you to stay on the ground. But I discovered some trick to bait their DP by jump in early when they knock down or 50/50 cross cut. They tend to do DP too late and get blocked because I’m already on the ground. So, nature of M players are that they are confident in their DPs but some are not accurate in timing and range.
I think it comes from feeling like you used shortcuts to be able to do things people practiced for years to do. It’s sort of annoying to think about, but then it’s all the same moves and shit. The real problem is instant super, I think thats a lil wacky.
Modern controls has been a blessing for me, since I used to be a professional sumo wrestler my left wrist got seriously fucked up during a competition which makes using the joystick pretty uncomfortable over long periods of time. I still like to use classics time to time, but generally not having to use motion inputs constantly has been much appreciated. Granted i'm mostly using modern because it's physically painful to use classic over extended periods of time, so it might be a bit different then most who use it.
2 equally gifted players playing the same number of hours of SF on different control schemes - the modern player will be ahead for like at least a thousand hours. We know it's not the best at the highest level, but for 95%+ of the playerbase it is IMO
A thousand hours is a very large exaggeration, frankly. It doesn't take that long to get decent enough at execution to where you have a couple of bread and butter combos down, the auto combos aren't optimal, and it's also very character dependent.
What are you basing this on? Even in diamond you barely see Modern players. And by master they're mostly gone. And a thousand hours? Really? You calculated that yourself?
@@BlueLightningSky No hard evidence, just my opinion as someone new to the genre. it's much easier to use the modern controls, it would take a while to overcome that.
If you are losing to one button DPs stop jumping and play the ground game first, then you can try jumping. We've had one button anti air since the start and people still stand there and just block.
Normal anti airs is not as good as DP, there are times when I opted to use antiair normals instead of a dp in the heat of the moment and I get hit instead. When that happens, I get upset at myself, that's fair. When a classic player DP anti airs me I think "this dude has his AA on lock, good shit" but if modern controls consistentently AA me I think "of course". It's not fun.
@@zrifepsychexactly, it’s not that I got punished for jumping, it’s that a modern player punishing my jump takes zero skill, where as a classic player reacting and AA is more impressive because it required at least some level of reaction and execution
@@volktol4432 True. I absolutely hate it when I try to AA but end up doing a crouch heavy kick and end up eating a massive punish counter combo because I fucked up the down down input.
@@R_C32 stop using modern then? If people can’t do full input anti-airs then that says a lot about your execution. That’s a poor argument, the problem is in how easy it is. I can that because I literally started the game on modern, it’s too easy and cheap, pressing a single/2 button for some inputs is genuinely retarded as well as some attacks coming out frames quicker than even capable by classic (typically pertained to projectiles) modern is literally baby controls. And that isn’t even hateful
Just because something is perceived as easier. Doesn't mean that everybody's gonna switch over. Because you see that in everyday life. There are people that do things the same way for 50 years. Even though there is an easier and faster way to do it. They choose to do it that way because they are more used to doing it that way. They feel more comfortable again. Why would they all of a sudden? Learn a brand new way of doing things. If they're already comfortable with the means that gets them towards success. Now that doesn't mean that people that can come in and learn modern controls and Can't be more successful at it than other people. You just have to understand those people are just that damn good. But that doesn't mean that modern controls are superior as well. Remember, it's not the car. It's the driver. You can give anybody a gun, but not everybody can shoot something 50 to a 100 yd away. You see what I'm saying. Don't be surprised if in the near future. The Evo finals or the grand finals are littered with modern controllers. And I guarantee only then will they say. Maybe it might be unfair advantage. Now the fact that I just went online and got my ass whipped by a Jamie player using modern controllers. Might have something to do with my opinion at this current moment.But I still think it is a little cheap It's not anything
I am a new player in SF6. And because I am very busy at work, I only play for leisure, and I do not use a joystick but a computer keyboard to play, so the modern mode has become my only choice. After all, the keyboard is small. If i use the classic mode,my hand will be very painful, and my reaction is not that fast, so the modern mode is relatively friendly to me to beginging the game. To be honest, the way i climb to mr 1700 as modern zaingeif,I also hate most of the modern players I encounter. Many of them are relying on using DI or OD. , I am a player who likes footsies, so I have to fight back slowly and patiently.sometimes its annoying,but theres still a lot of modern players that are really good tho
Complaining about Modern a year into the game is insane. If one button DPs/supers, one direction charge inputs, and largely suboptimal autocombos were so overpowered, it would be over represented in all levels of play.
You really think Capcom is gonna backtrack their new tech after advertising it to hell? Even if it is a problem which it is they aren't gonna do anything about anytime soon because they fought so hard to keep it In
@highlion8998 it's not that they don't want them to play, it's that they want them to spend 3 million years in the lab to get gud. No one wants to commit that type of time to one videogame
@@MastaDivinity well when it comes to fighting games after you reach a certain threshold on ranked like platinum I personally think modern controls just shouldn't be there. Cuz if the issue is that people don't have time to learn something and use an entry way for the game, after a certain point people are putting more energy into learning the game on modern than just learning the game. Quarter circle and z inputs are THAT hard y'all
@superraijinsage746 I'd say just let people play the game how they want to play. There isn't any real reason to strip options out the game. It's not like modern controls have any competitive advantage, so I really don't get what the issue is.
@Backtothehat relax if you face a modern in whatever rank you ca beat him because they are in your same rank, look at your experience not the experience of others, you play the game to have fun.
@@rogercoello6801 i am agree with this, people nowadays are too afraid of some 'changes' Game are supposed to be fun, not the other way around, you win you go on, you lose get better
My thoughts on modern: Modern is pretty fair because you get less damage out of it and some options are limited. You also still need some execution to do moves that are locked behind inputs like Jamie’s swagger step. It allows you to focus more on footsies and less on execution with the disadvantage of less damage.
Dude I rematch almost all my matches wether I am having fun or I just want to see a Bison or JP player get decimated in my hands and sooner or later those players leave on me after the match. 👿👿👿
M players on every level have one significant advantage, the speed it takes to do the moves. In a projectile war the M player will always have the edge
The disadvantages outweigh the advantages tho. Leas damage, sub optimal auto combos, and the loss of many most times good unique moves. M can for aure be played at any level of skill but theres a reason most pros and even most people in like gold and up play classic.
@@interceptingfist5682bro there is no advantage to doing a button super when there’s very little time difference. there’s more competitive players using classic for a reason, damage and button variety is absolutely gutted using modern controls which is why you still see a majority of newer players that want to play competitive still using classic.
@@jico5147 bypassing the fraction of a second to pull off a super/ca with one button and no motions as a whiff punish is asinine. equally so is having the ability to cancel a jab punish into super at the sight of opportunity. execution is a major part of fighting games and should not be dulled down to such extreme ease to obtain consistent, high results. the pros are not the majority of the game and they dont need it, obviously. the average player has to compete with this nonsense and it gatekeeps progression. instant reaction super, extremely consistent crosscut dps, low chance of dropping auto combos... its cancerous.
Nah Jimmy you wrong. 1- If one button reactions weren't OP then Capcom wouldn't balance it by nerfing damage and removing options. 2- judging something's strength by how it is used by the absolute best is like judging the economy's health by how well the 1%ers or the stock market are doing
1. That's exactly my point: players pretend like there are no downsides to modern controls but it was DESIGNED to be balanced with pro's and con's. 2. If players are not willing to struggle with Classic controls then they should just play with Modern controls instead. Choosing classic controls as a beginner should always come with an understanding that you won't be able to do certain things with ease but you get to use the full character tools. This is a chosen disadvantage in the early game in order to reach different heights later on in the game.
@@mdz_jimmy appreciate the response. There are downsides but the upsides outweigh the downsides for people of average skill. I am sure you have come across lots and lots of modern players who are actually medium skilled but are in master rank only because of the simplified button scheme and one button invincible supers. So yes, in that sense, they are getting carried by modern controls. IMO, the damage nerf needs to be larger OR one button invul supers need to be removed.
@@LucianRudeboy Your initial response asked how my #2 addresses your #2 but now you added some more info. I will try to respond to both: I disagree with your #2 concern and your comparison to the economy because you make it sound like players are forced to use either classic controls. As I said in my initial response players can choose and if you are not willing to deal with the downsides of classic then you should be playing modern controls. Capcom shouldn't make Modern even worse just so that beginners on Classic can feel like they are on equal footing: they aren't and that's ok! Modern was balanced around competitive play and I think that's exactly what Capcom should be doing. Anyone starting to play on Modern shouldn't be force to switch later on, the 2 controls schemes are supposed to co-exist and they can't do that if Modern is objectively worse for competitive play. We can discuss this further on my live stream if you want to, I think it's a complicated topic and I understand why people could be frustrated by Modern controls but imo the mindset is quite bad.
1:40 "Is it easier to win with controls, yes or no" Yes. Full stop. "Were do you see this? You see it in tournaments" No. 99% of the player base is not playing on tournaments. And 90% of the player base is not pro level masters. Stop using the "tournaments" and "pro" yardstick to measure this in. On lower levels, where NORMAL people play, you are dealing with someone that has an input accuracy higher than pros at 100% consistency, instant input speed faster than pros,, there is not even buffering for moves to try and increase your reaction time by seeing their input, and their reaction times due to thee reasons are also decreased thus faster than they would be. They also have a MUCH smaller mental stack. They have access to less moves, but become much more flowcharty and this is an easier gameplan. You are taking away from them half the skill needed to play the game. They don't need to worry about dropping inputs, they don't need to worry about input speed, and they don't need to worry about inputs period for their reaction time. They also need to worry about less moves. Their practice goes into their gameplan and their gameplan alone. Whilst other players are practicing a whole bunch of other stuff, Modern control players are getting a shortcut. At which point I really don't give a sht if on pro level they hit a wall because they reach a point where the other player has a pro level reaction time, input consitency and speed, AND all the tools of the character. On high level their advantage is smaller and smaller. On lower levels their advantage is clear. I don't see why I need to be fighting someone on lower levels that can input a lvl 3 super art so fast it can connect between a combo if I drop it by simply spamming a single button. Not even pros can do that kind of sht. Auto combos are the icing on the cake. If they find a means to punish you they have a free "mash these buttons" combo and job done. Meanwhile every classic control player before they even build muscle memory needs to think "oh fk, I got a punish, I need to capitalise on it" and until they manage to do this fk it up over and over. On which dimention are these advantages NOT important? On which plane of existence? Honesty, I give two shts on pro level how much modern controls suck. You are telling me I need to reach pro level to never have to come across a modern player that I feel is cheesing. No thanks. How about I stay on my skill level that I am enjoying, and play against people of equal skill. EQUAL skill. Me having to deal with double the work to do the same thing as you is NOT equal skill. Modern Controls are a great and amazing addition to the game. No exageration. I love them. It is such an intuitive way to get newcomers to play the game in a way that doesn't totally break the game. Allows for input commands as well to slowly learn the ropes, and honestly its amazing. They should NOT get rid of Modern Controlls. However, they do not belong in ranked. Full stop. Ranked is a level playing field. The more ways you introduce to play ranked the less level that playing field is. You are trying to asymmetrically create advantages and disadvantages. Modern controls belong in Battle Hub, Custom Lobbies and Casual Matches. Not ranked. And pointing out that you just wrecked a Modern Ken saying "is he hard?" means fk all. You do the same to classic players too. lol. I wreck most Modern Players as well. And? Its not until you come across someone that is taking proper advantage of the insta-spam and realise how unbalanced this is for ranked. How about you go up against a Ken with your level of skill on Modern. I would say the match could go both ways, and EVEN on your level were modern control advantages are mitigated. When you reach higher levels Modern Controls become less and less dominating, because first of all they become more and more predictable. Till you get to that point though they are a cancer you need to push through. And again, I have won 90% of my matches vs modern on lower levels. Before some cavetroll jumps around with "git gud"... I win mate, that is good enough. Its still cheesy idiotic gameplay. The fact I need to even change up my playstyle completely and act as if I am playing a different game is bad on its own. There no longer is a "lets see if we can throw this persons cool off so they can drop moves" for example. That interaction is completely gone. I play as if I am playing AI at that point. "Ok, don't jump EVER because they have single button anti air that is almost as bad as CPU reading you"... So much for trying to test their skill if they can pull a fast last second anti air. A completely different game. Again, leave MC in Casual Matches and everything else, its a great addition. Don't allow it in Ranked though. The decision to do this alone is absurd.
I think what people are really misunderstanding is that making it easier to combo and having instant supers is only just part of the main problem. I think all the hate for M controls mostly comes from the fact that someone who hasn't played Street Fighter in their life can easily match up to C control players who have been practicing for months to years on end. It's basically the same situation BF4 had with the Phantom Bow. Players did the looonnggggg easter egg to unlock it and out of no where Dice decided to just give it away to be unlocked instantly by picking the bow up in a certain game mode. It's like one big giant slap to the face, me personally I don't care if people choose M controls or not.....my thing is that it should've been optional to only match up with other C control users in ranked if that's what you want, only natural or hard earned skilled players having the honor to hand you your L.
"I think all the hate for M controls mostly comes from the fact that someone who hasn't played Street Fighter in their life can easily match up to C control players who have been practicing for months to years on end." This is just untrue, if you're losing to day 1 modern player as a classic player with years of experience, your fundamentals are severely lacking. At the highest level of play, the ONLY advantage modern gets is instant super (most pros anti-air reliably on classic anyway). But clearly that advantage is not worth losing half your good buttons. Also there are A LOT of skilled players that use modern, look at haitani on modern chun (which i think he switched off recentlycause he realized modern is NOT better than classic)
Jimmy is absolutly right, modern is not good at all at high levels, but for the lower ranks, up to master it's totally fine. I've been playing modern ken for a bit cause my execution is TRASH never been able to do constant FADC combos back in 4 for exemple and I've trained a lot! But since I've been able to bring ken up to master, it was easier than I thought, cause up to diamond 3/4 it's rabbit land, players only want to either drive rush or jump on you, my response for both options was always to OD DP, then start offense. I have had some players rage quit on me on the way, or not rematch, both modern and classic. I've a ton of trouble with above 1600 MR masters though, but for lower than that I would say modern is good enough, classic is better if you have the execution :p
The hitbox of that Dhalsim super is a little weird and it starts high on the screen so you can dodge for a bit if you crouch, and also he is not invincible compared to Ryu's lvl 3 which is full inv. In this moment when Dhal used the super, he crouched to dodge the first couple of hits, DI during the initial recovery and then used lvl 3 to dodge the rest of the hits.
@@bitdgamer3891good players / experienced players lab these things out, so they know 95% of the time. If a character is new and they haven‘t had the opportunity to try stuff out, they could go by instinct and do such a thing. But in this case, Ryu and Sim have been out for quize a while, he probably discovered it a while ago
People here seem to forget that there are modern players with actual real life issues with their hands, and modern controls helps them play the game and have fun, just like we who do not have issues with our hands (yet and god forbid we ever do).
Tourney players aren't playing their first Street Fighter. They already play classic at such a high level that to switch to a new control scheme with easier reactions at the expense of all their muscle memory isn't particularly viable. Moderns are using training wheels to accomplish techniques and reactions that classic players can't pull out as easily because we refuse to relearn the whole game. Any modern who tries to tell you it's not an advantage is either lying or an idiot, because they either are benefiting from it (an advantage) or they aren't and they use it anyway (like an idiot). Either way they get my absolute distain all the disrespect.
Its almost like you dont want people to enjoy the game together. I say that because not everybodys good at fighting games let alone SF6. Ill use myself as an example. I(who bought the game and got decent enough to string a combo together) was playing with a friend of mine who used to enjoy SF but fell off and hasnt played since 2T, and at first he was getting frustrated because things werent "working" and felt he didnt know enough to keep up. Rather than suggest the always enforced, "get gud" mentality, i suggested there was modern with simplifies it down and makes it a little easier to enjoy. You know what? He enjoyed it. My wife and niece played together on modern(mind you they both have NEVER played a fighting game) and they were having fun. I say all that to say this: sometimes its just about enjoying the game. Not everybody wants to go pro and take the time to learn combos, frame rate, whiffing, etc... sometimes they just wanna pick up a game and enjoy it. Thats what modern is for.
Modern is only really annoying for low ladder players since modern players don't have to worry about their inputs messing up. That being said, relying on your opponent to mess up inputs it's a great way to learn the game anyway since people will naturally stop making those mistakes. Edit after seeing the ending: Why are Modern players so salty? They always one and done without fail.
Because of the majority of the players barring ones who might have physical limitations are using the mode to crap out some easier wins, Modern controls feeds their need for instant gratification with nowhere near the same amount of time and work as an Classic player.
The fact that folks are still debating whether or not modern players have an advantage should be enough to conclude that there’s still no clear answer lol. If you feel strongly one way or the other, you’re biased because of your personal experience. End of debate. We’re all playing the same game and we all have the same options to choose to play modern or classic controls. I think that adding a new control scheme was smart because it’s allowing more folks to enjoy playing the game. The more the merrier!
As a modern controls user with cerebral palsy, I can definitely say that they help because certain characters Soopers are a nightmare to input cough cough Guile cough cough, also it's a lot easier on my muscles, I don't feel like I want to take a nap after every fight
only modern player with any tournament success is haitani on chun. even though tokido played luke on modern at the start he said it was trash and switched back to classic luke. modern getting rid of so many options and lowering your damage output in exchange for faster inputs makes it not worth it to use unless theres a difficult input to do on classic for reactions like supers.
So you think that because you have to move the stick (no Diddy) in a million directions just to do one move makes you good? Modern players are people who don’t like to over complicate things, or they are new to this type of game. I play modern myself but I’m slowly easing over to classic . Because I play with regular controls on tekken( not the SS).
So this means low level players have a choice to either get better at the game or play Modern controls as they aren't good enough for Classic. The statistics indicate Classic starts to become dominant around Platinum which also happens to be the most populated rank. You simply can't argue that players losing in Silver have a hard time because of Modern controls... there's 1 million ways to beat players in Silver rank so if you can't even overcome that then are you really in a position to complain about Modern controls? Either use Modern yourself (it was designed for you!!!) or get better and accept a few more losses along the way until you get there.
@@mdz_jimmy I'm not even talking about myself. I'm master rank 1600 mr. Don't really see modern that much in master, but There is a different meta at different levels of play, and if modern dominates any of those it's badly designed imo.
@@nicorobin7762 there's no meta at low levels though lol. The play is too all over the place to say one is established anywhere under decent mr ratings
I want to give my perspective as a modern control player. This is my first ever street fighter, and as a full mortal kombat player I personally find the inputs of street fighter incredibly tricky. Im VERY slowly learning the inputs of this game but in the meantime i’ll stay in Modern. Is modern easier for me? Yes, it is from my experience easier. I know i didn’t explain much, but what im trying to say is that modern is probably picked up mostly by newcomers to street fighter, i hope.
Modern is good when you're beginning because you can easily throw supers into your game. I think the switch happens when you start wanting to pull off more complex combos that really do need the buttons to offer more variety.
I think that the modern controls are good since if you are a good player you can say anything, and it also helps new people who arrive. I think we simply have to update ourselves and that's it.
Stop complaining about Modern guys… come on! everybody here saw how a Modern player rage quits his match vs Jimmy… this is a proof that if you lose a match is because the other player is better than you… that’s it..! just continue playing, practice and improve your game.. me included.
THANK YOU !! Seriously, the hate about M controls is just ridiculous and dumb. Playing on Modern doesn't mean that you can't improve. Quite the contrary, in fact
Its crazy how people are trashing and swearing off of Modern controls, but can't hold a candle to Haitani who's got master rank on both Modern and Classical controls on all the characters: and I discovered that during Evo last year. The top tier competitors have a grasp of the controls to know what to expect. Meanwhile, you all are literally neutering your match-up knowledge because you think modern controls are a plague. Its just another control scheme. It loses buttons and has a 20% debuff on easy specials and supers. It has its own mini game built in that's fun to figure out and play. Stop being sticks in the mud and enjoy the game. Sheesh! Btw, I can play both Modern and Classic and loving it! 😂
Modern controls are like an inverse skill multiplier. The worse you are, the better they assist you. That's why people get frustrated. Using modern might take a rookie to silver, but it won't take a diamond to master.
Dude im a modern player just cause i have a controller to play with and its not easy M controls dont have damage in them like classic so we have to hit twice as hard
SF6 is my first street fighter. I play Tekken with a stick but 6 attack buttons is too much for my pinky so I use a controller with modern on SF6, I've made it to Plat with Jamie.
I’m defending classic players with my life, I’m 14, street fighter is my favorite game of all time, and this is my first time ever being somewhat good at it, I tried classic controls one time, almost burnt the skin off my fingers trying to do akuma flying gohadoken
I use modern controls for a simple fact, I have a real job...not everyone is a "content creator", "youtuber" or "influencer" or spent hundreds of hours to play games.
and a funny fact, I made many "classic" players rage quit. But in the end, have 2 things in mind, have fun with little time and respect the others. I see a lot of people disrespecting other in the game.
Modern players can dp and super easier of course they have an advantage over guys in ranked. Top players are cracked enough to react and input like it’s modern.
tbh assist controls in any fighting game are generally bad and the people who complain about them are usually scrubs who werent winning their games anyways.
Modern Zangief I have to say is a lot of fun. I run Modern Zangief when I'm just BSing and want to have fun, I run Classic Akuma when i'm actually trying to compete and get better.
Modern does a great job of getting you into the game and is better for players up to masters. But it has no advantage at that point so it is working as intended
This is how i break it down to people. Lets say you could double your running speed but at the sacrifice of losing both of your arms Do you have an advantage over someone with regular speed and two arms? yeah sure you have an advantage at running but do you have an overall advantage at life? most people would say no and if you lost a fight against someone who is really fast but has no arms would anyone feel like it was unfair? the advantages you get from playing modern do not out weigh the COST you have to pay when you pick modern.
I understand the hate for modern controls (very surprised that it hasn't died down a year into the game tho), but people are talking about it like they're some cheats that only certain players have access to. Like... bro. If they're supposedly so superior and give you such an advantage then why don't YOU just use it too? We used to put people on ScrubQuotes for whining about modern, I don't get why that sentiment has flipped now
I mean regardless if ppl want to play modern they can it’s in the game for a reason, is neither a disadvantage or and advantage , some ppl can’t adapt to classic gameplay so capcom placed it for a reason. Play the game and if you lose to a modern player is cause he defiantly know his stuff as a modern player.
They have avantages and inconvenients: they lose out on some buttons but they have on the other hand super reliable anti airs and very dangerous on reaction reversals. There's a reason some pros play on modern
It just occurred to me that Jimmy never charges for Denjin Hadouken. He'll charge for Denjin Hashogeki if the opponent is dazed. But that's it. I guess because he plays Ryu as a rushdown player. Hmmm.
Until the patch comes using dejin for the fireball is rarely a good reason to save it lol. If u cant Chuck one and recharge might as well keep it fpr the hasho damage
0:49 yeah I wish my friends who played with me in this game could subscribe to this mindset. Their new so its understandable but they would get stomped by a modern player and go "moderns so broken". Their are trade offs to modern and depending on the player could be worse. If you get smoked by someone using modern its probably because their just better period.
Jimmy cant build an arguement regarding modern controls that is more complex than "if you think its better pick it" - "high level players dont use it so its worse". Ofc these things are true but theres a whole discussion about game design and what makes the game fun that hes either ignoring or blind to.
Modern is fair it’s just you need to approach them differently. I’m a 1600MR master AKI, seems like In that rank you need to bait reversals. And be careful at full screen because they can react with supers and such a few frames faster. Now at pro level… I believe it’s a disadvantage to use modern.
Modern is cancer takes no skill to press one button and then on top of it they have no chance for input error doing moves or specials which is bullshit.
complaining about M controls is just a skill issue imo. You didn't lose because they have a 1 button DP. You lost because they were better than you, The only real character IMO that wins from M controls is Gief
You absolutely will, I lose to almost every player that realizes I don't have as many mixup tools or many tools in general for most characters. Once they stop pressing buttons and actually start blocking it gets pretty difficult to land a clean hit. Mirror matches are a pain in neutral since they can out range you (but we get one button specials so I guess it evens out but I rarely use them).
I don't rematch modern. I'm not a pro and I'm playing at a disadvantage fighting someone with instant supers and 100% accuracy on all anti airs and cross cuts. I don't care what people think.
This guy KAM does this regualary, i played this fuck 2 times now and he ragequit BOTH thoose times when we fought eachother. He cant probally help him self tho since hes both Modern and a Ken player : )
Depends on the character, plus you can still do motion inputs for full damage so there is quite literally an advantage when in comes to supers and specials. Its not that simple.
@@penence347 it is, stop complaining about me mechanics that keeps playing that dont want carpal tunnel. Modern controls is the best thing in sf6 and they should also add the neutral moves that are missing
@@highlion8998 at what point was i complaining? Even if i was stop being a baby and acting like motion inputs are the most demanding and crippiling difficult thing in the world, if a guy can play and win some tournament matches with a driving wheel you have nothing to bitch about. Secondly, motion inputs are not arbitrary they exist for a reason. There has always been a tradition of input as a balancing tool i.e sonic booms being better then fireball due to the charge input. Modern controls break that tradition so it warrents debate.
This is just annoying to explain… 1. Modern players are missing not only 20% of their damage for faster input but also some IMPORTANT NORMALS. So when you say that Luke is able to play one button 1lvl super don’t forget he is fucking missing good air-to-air option JMP, long MK poke, and best JHP. 2. Players gain their super bars with the same speed and if your opponent lands one button super on you it’s with reduced damage. You have the same bar and can respond after that. Everyone is talking like only modern players have their supers and classic players don’t. If you died because your opponent performed one button super, but your bar is still full - the problem is not in your opponent’s controls, but with your resource management. If not, you always have a chance to respond. 3. If you’re scared of one button DP JUST STOP JUMPING. Why does no one complain about Honda’s real one button anti-air that leads to punish counter and full combo?
![Classic VS Modern! This Ryu Taught Me A Lesson! [Stream Highlights 116]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QNtm_D2hBLE/mqdefault.jpg)
![Classic VS Modern! This Ryu Taught Me A Lesson! [Stream Highlights 116]](/img/tr.png)
![The Most Disrespectful Strategy! [SH 109]](/img/1.gif)
I love modern controls, not because I use them, I still use classic, I love them because it gives my friends easier access to the game. They aren't serious players, they are just looking for casual fun.
I'll never understand this logic. You can have casual fun on classic.
@@interceptingfist5682 What I mean is that they can actually do fireballs and dragon punches. They can finally do supers all just for fun.
@@interceptingfist5682if you’ve never played a fighting game motion inputs are just cumbersome and they stop you from being able to play the game. So if someone is only going to play once in a while with friends, it’s not worth going through the struggle of learning how to do a dp
Nah sf 6 is my first fighting games im a casual gamer and my hand is not listening from what input i want why motion or quarter input is hard for me but modern control make it easier for me to fully enjoy this game i still learning classic im playing classic at bot but in rank im playing modern@@interceptingfist5682
Yeah that’s fine, but this is ranked.
That Ken player rage quitting was comedic gold timing.
Ken:😖😧
With that face also😂😂😂
Yeah. What a pathetic loser.
My sentiment is modern is worse for pros generally, and is better for average sf players because of easier execution. Though instant supers are broken
esspecially for newer players. My friend is new and wants to stick to classic but got really frustrated when he sometimes got auto comboed for a bunch of damage. It's interesting, newer players on modern have a lot more structure compared to new classic players, giving them the edge among the chaos of rookie-bronze.
What execution?😂
The supers is a mix one because all players can wake up super
Easier execution where you literally lose stuff playing on modern controls
I whole-heartedly agree with this.
The best use I had for modern players was they force you to stay on the ground.
I got less scrubby learning to beat modern players because you can't jump on them until you really build up their mental stack because basically if you, on classic, could push jab before the opponent lands a modern player can DP or ever anti-air super you. It makes you develop your ground game.
Facts
big facts
Honestly I was told that classic players have the advantage and the only time modern control has a good effect on a character it's Lilly I only beaten a classic player using Juri that's it all else I got my behind handed to me.😑
@@everlee6274 There's advantages and disadvantages either way.
The advantages of classic are:
1) Your moves never sacrifice damage for easy execution
2) You have access to all of your moves. Most modern characters have a few things missing.
The advantages to modern are:
1) Simple execution with the option of harder execution to deal full damage
2) Increased reaction speed due to not having to perform a motion.
In practice modern is much stronger at lower levels because your reaction time can be quite a bit worse and still get things like AA DP, once you get to the level where players can do DP with classic you ALSO can't jump much because they can DP you for full damage. Virtually everyone at the highest level tried modern and dropped it because the loss in damage didn't compensate for the easy anti-airs. At that level you only get a few openings, they have to count for everything they're worth or you're losing. I did find in lower ranks that it seems many modern players are VERY on the ball with their anti-airs even if the rest of their game is lacking. So against high level players or modern controls you have to keep your feet on the ground, modern players helped me practice that.
@@WoWisdeadtome And a big disadvantage of Modern is that classic players can get a combo in or just destroy me by using dp before I can get up after being knocked down. You need panther reflexes to pull off all the inputs needed in record time in classic.
The thing most people dont know about modern. You only lose 20% damage IF you use easy input, if you do manual its 100% damage. Also there are hidden buttons, like modern guile his medium button is his MK, but if you hold the auto combo button press MK, it will be the MP, so he actually does have his both medium buttons, so he didnt lose half of buttons. And auto combo if you stop before super it does 100% damage also. Just test with guile hold auto button +heavy button he will do medium into hp into OD sonic boom for 2k damage, classic guile doing this combo does 2k damage also.
I think modern is fine apart from the supers tbh. I think the supers should all need one qcf or qcb motion. This way modern serves as an entryway into actually using motion inputs and classic controls
i think modern should stay as is for the supers because it's not very strong competitively.
also modern shouldn't be an entry way into using classic controls because it is its own thing, and not just for newbies
U play M innit
I dont think it was ever meant to be an entry way to classic. Before the game was out every just said that because they didn't like the idea and hoped it would die off. I feel like they made it to be a legit alternate option. Ive gone between both and Like he said Youre missing half the buttons. Getting used to one makes you progressively worse at the other. I think youre just supposed to choose one.
@@slidelikeMbison Yeah maybe it wasn't meant to be an entryway but I kinda hope evolves into that
No. The one button specials and supers are the only substantial thing going for it. Relying on those isn't getting you far. Plus, you still need to use motion inputs to even get the best of M controls.
He's in the middle of the rant and there's still ppl coping in the chat. Modern isn't cheating, if u lost the guy was better than you.
Yeah better at pulling up one frame super, better anti air because they doesn't need to do the whole input
I'm sure he was also better because they can't drop a single combo because they don't need to time it
People complaining about modern should just play modern
@@Mascarade01 Modern doesn't change the timing of combos. Everything in this game has a generous 5 frame buffer.
Nah bro. Modern is corny. If you’re even using modern you’re basically admitting a classic player has more skill than you lmao.
@@quick2mack74🤓
The thing I noticed about modern players is that they don't understand neutral and are itching to use special attacks. Like a modern Lily, she ALWAYS goes for the command grab setup, DP everytime
One button supers and DP is definitely an advantage. You can't tell me otherwise 😤
With that being said, obviously it has some disadvantages.
I said the same thing ,no doubt about it
Get ur execution better bud. Skill issue
@@TheChosen1inc FT10 Me. What's your CFN?
@@TheChosen1inc i agree with that somewhat but I play with characters that have a lot of air moves like cammy and akuma and when someone can just press a button to dp at the last second where someone on classic controls would.probably have to block or get hit, it gets annoying, it's too easy to anti air, not all of us are competitive players, it's kinda lame for the rest of us.
@@TheChosen1inc modern players are exactly like the people they claim to hate, "if you cant deal with it then git gud or dont play", they didn't like it so now theyre taking it as a means to act exactly the same
You are 100% right Jimmy, but it is very frustrating to play against them tho xD those one button invicible supers are not fun to eat lol
3:39
here's why, when someone beats you when you see they are using a mode or controls that actively covers their weakness, this will make the player using C controls angry because they know for a fact that had then been on a full 50/50 field in terms of controls odds would have been slightly more in their favor. This in turns add a layor of doubt that the loss was well earned.
This also means some people shift up their playstyle on Site of a M player because fighting a M player isn't the same for most C players because most people playing any fighting game AREN'T at a pro level and for those who want to get to a pro level by training using the lab and rank, Losing to a M player hardly if not NEVER feels good.
A non-video game Example is this, Go bowling and play someone for money, You have to blow normally, the other person can pick which rail he wants up but has to switch what rail stays up (so left then right then left again as an example) yes he can still get a gutter ball, yes he can still lose but if the skill gap is basically not there and you lose.
Things start to look ALOT Different, and yes in that bowling example, you could have walked away and said no, in ranked we get what we get.
I wrote a novel in the replies to the top comment, but the essence of my argument was that M hurts mid level play, and feels very limiting. It's very inorganic and forces you to play in a more rigid, less enjoyable way. It simply makes the game less fun even if you win.
For me, agreed with other comments, M players forces you to stay on the ground. But I discovered some trick to bait their DP by jump in early when they knock down or 50/50 cross cut. They tend to do DP too late and get blocked because I’m already on the ground.
So, nature of M players are that they are confident in their DPs but some are not accurate in timing and range.
My only issue is how fast an instant their special are compared to the 1-2 seconds i would need to input mine. Boils down to the reaction part for me.
I think it comes from feeling like you used shortcuts to be able to do things people practiced for years to do. It’s sort of annoying to think about, but then it’s all the same moves and shit.
The real problem is instant super, I think thats a lil wacky.
1-2 SECONDS???
A few frames more Not seconds😂
you need 2 seconds to input a special?
5:00 the entire 5 minutes is him defending this modern player then he does this 🤣 just wow
the Ken player rage quitting at the perfect time is pure gold
Well he just set a bad example for modern users.
Modern controls has been a blessing for me, since I used to be a professional sumo wrestler my left wrist got seriously fucked up during a competition which makes using the joystick pretty uncomfortable over long periods of time. I still like to use classics time to time, but generally not having to use motion inputs constantly has been much appreciated.
Granted i'm mostly using modern because it's physically painful to use classic over extended periods of time, so it might be a bit different then most who use it.
2 equally gifted players playing the same number of hours of SF on different control schemes - the modern player will be ahead for like at least a thousand hours. We know it's not the best at the highest level, but for 95%+ of the playerbase it is IMO
Yeah I agree
A thousand hours is a very large exaggeration, frankly. It doesn't take that long to get decent enough at execution to where you have a couple of bread and butter combos down, the auto combos aren't optimal, and it's also very character dependent.
What are you basing this on? Even in diamond you barely see Modern players. And by master they're mostly gone. And a thousand hours? Really? You calculated that yourself?
@@BlueLightningSky No hard evidence, just my opinion as someone new to the genre. it's much easier to use the modern controls, it would take a while to overcome that.
@@JamboNessy Look up the last time a modern player won a tournament
If you are losing to one button DPs stop jumping and play the ground game first, then you can try jumping. We've had one button anti air since the start and people still stand there and just block.
Normal anti airs is not as good as DP, there are times when I opted to use antiair normals instead of a dp in the heat of the moment and I get hit instead. When that happens, I get upset at myself, that's fair. When a classic player DP anti airs me I think "this dude has his AA on lock, good shit" but if modern controls consistentently AA me I think "of course". It's not fun.
@@zrifepsychexactly, it’s not that I got punished for jumping, it’s that a modern player punishing my jump takes zero skill, where as a classic player reacting and AA is more impressive because it required at least some level of reaction and execution
@@volktol4432 True. I absolutely hate it when I try to AA but end up doing a crouch heavy kick and end up eating a massive punish counter combo because I fucked up the down down input.
@@volktol4432 stop jumping then? If you can’t beat a modern player with half their buttons missing in neutral, says how good your footsies is tbh.
@@R_C32 stop using modern then? If people can’t do full input anti-airs then that says a lot about your execution. That’s a poor argument, the problem is in how easy it is. I can that because I literally started the game on modern, it’s too easy and cheap, pressing a single/2 button for some inputs is genuinely retarded as well as some attacks coming out frames quicker than even capable by classic (typically pertained to projectiles) modern is literally baby controls. And that isn’t even hateful
Just because something is perceived as easier. Doesn't mean that everybody's gonna switch over. Because you see that in everyday life. There are people that do things the same way for 50 years. Even though there is an easier and faster way to do it. They choose to do it that way because they are more used to doing it that way. They feel more comfortable again. Why would they all of a sudden? Learn a brand new way of doing things. If they're already comfortable with the means that gets them towards success. Now that doesn't mean that people that can come in and learn modern controls and Can't be more successful at it than other people. You just have to understand those people are just that damn good. But that doesn't mean that modern controls are superior as well.
Remember, it's not the car. It's the driver. You can give anybody a gun, but not everybody can shoot something 50 to a 100 yd away. You see what I'm saying. Don't be surprised if in the near future. The Evo finals or the grand finals are littered with modern controllers. And I guarantee only then will they say. Maybe it might be unfair advantage. Now the fact that I just went online and got my ass whipped by a Jamie player using modern controllers. Might have something to do with my opinion at this current moment.But I still think it is a little cheap It's not anything
I am a new player in SF6. And because I am very busy at work, I only play for leisure, and I do not use a joystick but a computer keyboard to play, so the modern mode has become my only choice. After all, the keyboard is small.
If i use the classic mode,my hand will be very painful, and my reaction is not that fast, so the modern mode is relatively friendly to me to beginging the game.
To be honest, the way i climb to mr 1700 as modern zaingeif,I also hate most of the modern players I encounter. Many of them are relying on using DI or OD. , I am a player who likes footsies, so I have to fight back slowly and patiently.sometimes its annoying,but theres still a lot of modern players that are really good tho
Complaining about Modern a year into the game is insane. If one button DPs/supers, one direction charge inputs, and largely suboptimal autocombos were so overpowered, it would be over represented in all levels of play.
but these oldheads dont like new players playing the game.
You really think Capcom is gonna backtrack their new tech after advertising it to hell? Even if it is a problem which it is they aren't gonna do anything about anytime soon because they fought so hard to keep it In
@highlion8998 it's not that they don't want them to play, it's that they want them to spend 3 million years in the lab to get gud. No one wants to commit that type of time to one videogame
@@MastaDivinity well when it comes to fighting games after you reach a certain threshold on ranked like platinum I personally think modern controls just shouldn't be there. Cuz if the issue is that people don't have time to learn something and use an entry way for the game, after a certain point people are putting more energy into learning the game on modern than just learning the game. Quarter circle and z inputs are THAT hard y'all
@superraijinsage746 I'd say just let people play the game how they want to play. There isn't any real reason to strip options out the game. It's not like modern controls have any competitive advantage, so I really don't get what the issue is.
as a Modern control player, not everyone is that stupid
I mean, for high level, I guess modern doesn't really matter, but for lower levels, damn that shit's annoying. It's like I'm playing the lottery 💀
Especially the hadoken spam
If modern wasn't invented on sf 6 I wouldnt bought the game
Scrub. Get a fightstick and get good. Matter of fact, stay out of ranked. Go play in battle hub.
@Backtothehat relax if you face a modern in whatever rank you ca beat him because they are in your same rank, look at your experience not the experience of others, you play the game to have fun.
@@rogercoello6801 i am agree with this, people nowadays are too afraid of some 'changes'
Game are supposed to be fun, not the other way around, you win you go on, you lose get better
Isn’t modern just MvC button style set up?
Pretty much yes, most fighting games uses a LMH layout.
My thoughts on modern:
Modern is pretty fair because you get less damage out of it and some options are limited. You also still need some execution to do moves that are locked behind inputs like Jamie’s swagger step.
It allows you to focus more on footsies and less on execution with the disadvantage of less damage.
The M stand for Make believe
I always thought it stands for "Make crybabies cry"
Modern players rage quit and if they don’t rage quit they never rematch. Modern players are people that like to take shortcuts
As a modern player in diamond I find that a lot of people one and done me or rage quit
@@joejardine4489I can see why
@@The_Pantologist57 same tbh
Dude I rematch almost all my matches wether I am having fun or I just want to see a Bison or JP player get decimated in my hands and sooner or later those players leave on me after the match. 👿👿👿
M players on every level have one significant advantage, the speed it takes to do the moves. In a projectile war the M player will always have the edge
The disadvantages outweigh the advantages tho. Leas damage, sub optimal auto combos, and the loss of many most times good unique moves. M can for aure be played at any level of skill but theres a reason most pros and even most people in like gold and up play classic.
complaining about modern in probably the biggest example of skill issue
Spoken like a true modern player
@@interceptingfist5682bro there is no advantage to doing a button super when there’s very little time difference. there’s more competitive players using classic for a reason, damage and button variety is absolutely gutted using modern controls which is why you still see a majority of newer players that want to play competitive still using classic.
@@jico5147 bro there is no advantage to doing a button super when there’s very little time difference, pass the blunt
@@g_naq i can’t speak for you but most players are good enough to do a super without much drag time, again i can’t speak for you.
@@jico5147 bypassing the fraction of a second to pull off a super/ca with one button and no motions as a whiff punish is asinine. equally so is having the ability to cancel a jab punish into super at the sight of opportunity. execution is a major part of fighting games and should not be dulled down to such extreme ease to obtain consistent, high results. the pros are not the majority of the game and they dont need it, obviously. the average player has to compete with this nonsense and it gatekeeps progression. instant reaction super, extremely consistent crosscut dps, low chance of dropping auto combos... its cancerous.
Nah Jimmy you wrong.
1- If one button reactions weren't OP then Capcom wouldn't balance it by nerfing damage and removing options.
2- judging something's strength by how it is used by the absolute best is like judging the economy's health by how well the 1%ers or the stock market are doing
1. That's exactly my point: players pretend like there are no downsides to modern controls but it was DESIGNED to be balanced with pro's and con's.
2. If players are not willing to struggle with Classic controls then they should just play with Modern controls instead. Choosing classic controls as a beginner should always come with an understanding that you won't be able to do certain things with ease but you get to use the full character tools. This is a chosen disadvantage in the early game in order to reach different heights later on in the game.
@@mdz_jimmy appreciate the response. There are downsides but the upsides outweigh the downsides for people of average skill. I am sure you have come across lots and lots of modern players who are actually medium skilled but are in master rank only because of the simplified button scheme and one button invincible supers. So yes, in that sense, they are getting carried by modern controls. IMO, the damage nerf needs to be larger OR one button invul supers need to be removed.
@@LucianRudeboy Your initial response asked how my #2 addresses your #2 but now you added some more info. I will try to respond to both: I disagree with your #2 concern and your comparison to the economy because you make it sound like players are forced to use either classic controls.
As I said in my initial response players can choose and if you are not willing to deal with the downsides of classic then you should be playing modern controls. Capcom shouldn't make Modern even worse just so that beginners on Classic can feel like they are on equal footing: they aren't and that's ok! Modern was balanced around competitive play and I think that's exactly what Capcom should be doing. Anyone starting to play on Modern shouldn't be force to switch later on, the 2 controls schemes are supposed to co-exist and they can't do that if Modern is objectively worse for competitive play.
We can discuss this further on my live stream if you want to, I think it's a complicated topic and I understand why people could be frustrated by Modern controls but imo the mindset is quite bad.
Nothing triggers you geeks more than that orange M 😂
1:40 "Is it easier to win with controls, yes or no"
Yes. Full stop.
"Were do you see this? You see it in tournaments"
No. 99% of the player base is not playing on tournaments. And 90% of the player base is not pro level masters. Stop using the "tournaments" and "pro" yardstick to measure this in.
On lower levels, where NORMAL people play, you are dealing with someone that has an input accuracy higher than pros at 100% consistency, instant input speed faster than pros,, there is not even buffering for moves to try and increase your reaction time by seeing their input, and their reaction times due to thee reasons are also decreased thus faster than they would be.
They also have a MUCH smaller mental stack. They have access to less moves, but become much more flowcharty and this is an easier gameplan.
You are taking away from them half the skill needed to play the game. They don't need to worry about dropping inputs, they don't need to worry about input speed, and they don't need to worry about inputs period for their reaction time. They also need to worry about less moves. Their practice goes into their gameplan and their gameplan alone.
Whilst other players are practicing a whole bunch of other stuff, Modern control players are getting a shortcut.
At which point I really don't give a sht if on pro level they hit a wall because they reach a point where the other player has a pro level reaction time, input consitency and speed, AND all the tools of the character. On high level their advantage is smaller and smaller. On lower levels their advantage is clear.
I don't see why I need to be fighting someone on lower levels that can input a lvl 3 super art so fast it can connect between a combo if I drop it by simply spamming a single button. Not even pros can do that kind of sht.
Auto combos are the icing on the cake. If they find a means to punish you they have a free "mash these buttons" combo and job done. Meanwhile every classic control player before they even build muscle memory needs to think "oh fk, I got a punish, I need to capitalise on it" and until they manage to do this fk it up over and over.
On which dimention are these advantages NOT important? On which plane of existence?
Honesty, I give two shts on pro level how much modern controls suck. You are telling me I need to reach pro level to never have to come across a modern player that I feel is cheesing. No thanks. How about I stay on my skill level that I am enjoying, and play against people of equal skill. EQUAL skill. Me having to deal with double the work to do the same thing as you is NOT equal skill.
Modern Controls are a great and amazing addition to the game. No exageration. I love them. It is such an intuitive way to get newcomers to play the game in a way that doesn't totally break the game. Allows for input commands as well to slowly learn the ropes, and honestly its amazing. They should NOT get rid of Modern Controlls. However, they do not belong in ranked. Full stop.
Ranked is a level playing field. The more ways you introduce to play ranked the less level that playing field is. You are trying to asymmetrically create advantages and disadvantages.
Modern controls belong in Battle Hub, Custom Lobbies and Casual Matches. Not ranked.
And pointing out that you just wrecked a Modern Ken saying "is he hard?" means fk all. You do the same to classic players too. lol. I wreck most Modern Players as well. And? Its not until you come across someone that is taking proper advantage of the insta-spam and realise how unbalanced this is for ranked. How about you go up against a Ken with your level of skill on Modern. I would say the match could go both ways, and EVEN on your level were modern control advantages are mitigated.
When you reach higher levels Modern Controls become less and less dominating, because first of all they become more and more predictable. Till you get to that point though they are a cancer you need to push through.
And again, I have won 90% of my matches vs modern on lower levels. Before some cavetroll jumps around with "git gud"... I win mate, that is good enough. Its still cheesy idiotic gameplay. The fact I need to even change up my playstyle completely and act as if I am playing a different game is bad on its own. There no longer is a "lets see if we can throw this persons cool off so they can drop moves" for example. That interaction is completely gone. I play as if I am playing AI at that point. "Ok, don't jump EVER because they have single button anti air that is almost as bad as CPU reading you"... So much for trying to test their skill if they can pull a fast last second anti air. A completely different game.
Again, leave MC in Casual Matches and everything else, its a great addition. Don't allow it in Ranked though. The decision to do this alone is absurd.
Nice essay. Maybe you'll get to diamond someday buddy. Don't give up!
That ragequit was so funny lmao
I think what people are really misunderstanding is that making it easier to combo and having instant supers is only just part of the main problem.
I think all the hate for M controls mostly comes from the fact that someone who hasn't played Street Fighter in their life can easily match up to C control players who have been practicing for months to years on end.
It's basically the same situation BF4 had with the Phantom Bow. Players did the looonnggggg easter egg to unlock it and out of no where Dice decided to just give it away to be unlocked instantly by picking the bow up in a certain game mode.
It's like one big giant slap to the face, me personally I don't care if people choose M controls or not.....my thing is that it should've been optional to only match up with other C control users in ranked if that's what you want, only natural or hard earned skilled players having the honor to hand you your L.
"I think all the hate for M controls mostly comes from the fact that someone who hasn't played Street Fighter in their life can easily match up to C control players who have been practicing for months to years on end."
This is just untrue, if you're losing to day 1 modern player as a classic player with years of experience, your fundamentals are severely lacking. At the highest level of play, the ONLY advantage modern gets is instant super (most pros anti-air reliably on classic anyway). But clearly that advantage is not worth losing half your good buttons. Also there are A LOT of skilled players that use modern, look at haitani on modern chun (which i think he switched off recentlycause he realized modern is NOT better than classic)
@@HEROIKE315 Agree to disagree
Jimmy is absolutly right, modern is not good at all at high levels, but for the lower ranks, up to master it's totally fine. I've been playing modern ken for a bit cause my execution is TRASH never been able to do constant FADC combos back in 4 for exemple and I've trained a lot! But since I've been able to bring ken up to master, it was easier than I thought, cause up to diamond 3/4 it's rabbit land, players only want to either drive rush or jump on you, my response for both options was always to OD DP, then start offense. I have had some players rage quit on me on the way, or not rematch, both modern and classic. I've a ton of trouble with above 1600 MR masters though, but for lower than that I would say modern is good enough, classic is better if you have the execution :p
Capcom only needs to make an additional filter where we can choose to match with modern player or not in ranked or quick match. Problem solved.
honestly that looks like an honest disconnect
What happened around 8.56, how did you dodge the super art in a crouch ? And how did the rave dash prioritize over the super art ?
The hitbox of that Dhalsim super is a little weird and it starts high on the screen so you can dodge for a bit if you crouch, and also he is not invincible compared to Ryu's lvl 3 which is full inv.
In this moment when Dhal used the super, he crouched to dodge the first couple of hits, DI during the initial recovery and then used lvl 3 to dodge the rest of the hits.
@@Lapis_James do you think he knew all that or got lucky ?
@@bitdgamer3891good players / experienced players lab these things out, so they know 95% of the time. If a character is new and they haven‘t had the opportunity to try stuff out, they could go by instinct and do such a thing.
But in this case, Ryu and Sim have been out for quize a while, he probably discovered it a while ago
People here seem to forget that there are modern players with actual real life issues with their hands, and modern controls helps them play the game and have fun, just like we who do not have issues with our hands (yet and god forbid we ever do).
Brolylegs.
Tourney players aren't playing their first Street Fighter. They already play classic at such a high level that to switch to a new control scheme with easier reactions at the expense of all their muscle memory isn't particularly viable. Moderns are using training wheels to accomplish techniques and reactions that classic players can't pull out as easily because we refuse to relearn the whole game. Any modern who tries to tell you it's not an advantage is either lying or an idiot, because they either are benefiting from it (an advantage) or they aren't and they use it anyway (like an idiot). Either way they get my absolute distain all the disrespect.
1 button dp is an advantage
You have a one button anti-air too. Crouching heavy punch for most characters, no?
Its almost like you dont want people to enjoy the game together. I say that because not everybodys good at fighting games let alone SF6. Ill use myself as an example. I(who bought the game and got decent enough to string a combo together) was playing with a friend of mine who used to enjoy SF but fell off and hasnt played since 2T, and at first he was getting frustrated because things werent "working" and felt he didnt know enough to keep up. Rather than suggest the always enforced, "get gud" mentality, i suggested there was modern with simplifies it down and makes it a little easier to enjoy. You know what? He enjoyed it. My wife and niece played together on modern(mind you they both have NEVER played a fighting game) and they were having fun. I say all that to say this: sometimes its just about enjoying the game. Not everybody wants to go pro and take the time to learn combos, frame rate, whiffing, etc... sometimes they just wanna pick up a game and enjoy it. Thats what modern is for.
Modern is only really annoying for low ladder players since modern players don't have to worry about their inputs messing up. That being said, relying on your opponent to mess up inputs it's a great way to learn the game anyway since people will naturally stop making those mistakes.
Edit after seeing the ending: Why are Modern players so salty? They always one and done without fail.
Because of the majority of the players barring ones who might have physical limitations are using the mode to crap out some easier wins, Modern controls feeds their need for instant gratification with nowhere near the same amount of time and work as an Classic player.
The fact that folks are still debating whether or not modern players have an advantage should be enough to conclude that there’s still no clear answer lol. If you feel strongly one way or the other, you’re biased because of your personal experience. End of debate. We’re all playing the same game and we all have the same options to choose to play modern or classic controls.
I think that adding a new control scheme was smart because it’s allowing more folks to enjoy playing the game. The more the merrier!
I genuinely hate the word "modern" these days.
As a modern controls user with cerebral palsy, I can definitely say that they help because certain characters Soopers are a nightmare to input cough cough Guile cough cough, also it's a lot easier on my muscles, I don't feel like I want to take a nap after every fight
Wait weren't Modern Marissas and Modern Chun-Lis successful in tournaments? (Might be out of the loop I haven't played for a while)
Yes
tokido got very far with modern luke
only modern player with any tournament success is haitani on chun. even though tokido played luke on modern at the start he said it was trash and switched back to classic luke. modern getting rid of so many options and lowering your damage output in exchange for faster inputs makes it not worth it to use unless theres a difficult input to do on classic for reactions like supers.
So you think that because you have to move the stick (no Diddy) in a million directions just to do one move makes you good? Modern players are people who don’t like to over complicate things, or they are new to this type of game. I play modern myself but I’m slowly easing over to classic . Because I play with regular controls on tekken( not the SS).
modern controls are easier and advantaged at almost every level of play besides the very top level. Top level play isn't the only thing that matters.
Wrong. I almost never lose to modern players at plat and diamond.
So this means low level players have a choice to either get better at the game or play Modern controls as they aren't good enough for Classic. The statistics indicate Classic starts to become dominant around Platinum which also happens to be the most populated rank. You simply can't argue that players losing in Silver have a hard time because of Modern controls... there's 1 million ways to beat players in Silver rank so if you can't even overcome that then are you really in a position to complain about Modern controls? Either use Modern yourself (it was designed for you!!!) or get better and accept a few more losses along the way until you get there.
@@mdz_jimmy I'm not even talking about myself. I'm master rank 1600 mr. Don't really see modern that much in master, but There is a different meta at different levels of play, and if modern dominates any of those it's badly designed imo.
@@nicorobin7762 there's no meta at low levels though lol. The play is too all over the place to say one is established anywhere under decent mr ratings
@@AaronW0885 that’s not true. there’s definitely stuff that works better at lower levels than at higher ones.
I want to give my perspective as a modern control player. This is my first ever street fighter, and as a full mortal kombat player I personally find the inputs of street fighter incredibly tricky. Im VERY slowly learning the inputs of this game but in the meantime i’ll stay in Modern. Is modern easier for me? Yes, it is from my experience easier.
I know i didn’t explain much, but what im trying to say is that modern is probably picked up mostly by newcomers to street fighter, i hope.
Jimmy I'm one more star of being a Master Rank in this game any tips of getting better and yes I only use Classic Controls.
Modern is good when you're beginning because you can easily throw supers into your game. I think the switch happens when you start wanting to pull off more complex combos that really do need the buttons to offer more variety.
I think that the modern controls are good since if you are a good player you can say anything, and it also helps new people who arrive. I think we simply have to update ourselves and that's it.
1 button spezial anti air , Modern players is for scrubs
Most characters has a one button anti air not in modern 😂
@@MrShinTensei modern play 1 button shoryuken , what a joke
@@SenseiHadouken I mean it's badass because not only do I get one button but I can also do the motion for full damage.
@@MrShinTensei every spezial move with 1 button are you a scrub? Cant you press the motions?
@@MrShinTensei anti fireball super on Rection ist easy. Luke leven 1 , chun li level 2 .....
Stop complaining about Modern guys… come on! everybody here saw how a Modern player rage quits his match vs Jimmy… this is a proof that if you lose a match is because the other player is better than you… that’s it..! just continue playing, practice and improve your game.. me included.
Speak the truth
THANK YOU !! Seriously, the hate about M controls is just ridiculous and dumb. Playing on Modern doesn't mean that you can't improve. Quite the contrary, in fact
Its crazy how people are trashing and swearing off of Modern controls, but can't hold a candle to Haitani who's got master rank on both Modern and Classical controls on all the characters: and I discovered that during Evo last year. The top tier competitors have a grasp of the controls to know what to expect. Meanwhile, you all are literally neutering your match-up knowledge because you think modern controls are a plague.
Its just another control scheme. It loses buttons and has a 20% debuff on easy specials and supers. It has its own mini game built in that's fun to figure out and play. Stop being sticks in the mud and enjoy the game. Sheesh!
Btw, I can play both Modern and Classic and loving it! 😂
moderne play is a poison
Modern play is for people not wanting to focus on making the correct moves but doing the right tactic instead.
That ken was hilarious KJLASHHJKSADFSA
Modern controls are like an inverse skill multiplier. The worse you are, the better they assist you.
That's why people get frustrated. Using modern might take a rookie to silver, but it won't take a diamond to master.
Dude im a modern player just cause i have a controller to play with and its not easy M controls dont have damage in them like classic so we have to hit twice as hard
lol that’s new excuse please tell me more
@@nileshpawar2165 not an excuse try Ed in a broken controller boy
@@nileshpawar2165u got the game let's go a few rounds then boy
11:12 I didn’t know you could do that
SF6 is my first street fighter. I play Tekken with a stick but 6 attack buttons is too much for my pinky so I use a controller with modern on SF6, I've made it to Plat with Jamie.
it's the face ken makes the moment he gets hit in the gut and the player rage quits at the same time 🤣🤣😆😆🤣🤣🤣
5:02 Dude the switch up at this point
Sometime kindness is nothing but a slap on the face lmao
idk man why i should do 10 button press to do 1 move?
I totaly agree, modern controls are bulshit. No honor at all
Tell that to the near thousands of JP classic users. 🙄😒
I’m defending classic players with my life, I’m 14, street fighter is my favorite game of all time, and this is my first time ever being somewhat good at it, I tried classic controls one time, almost burnt the skin off my fingers trying to do akuma flying gohadoken
I’ve played that K.A.M before, they raged quit on me after I hit them with a Manon CA because they wouldn’t stop pressing buttons
I use modern controls for a simple fact, I have a real job...not everyone is a "content creator", "youtuber" or "influencer" or spent hundreds of hours to play games.
and a funny fact, I made many "classic" players rage quit. But in the end, have 2 things in mind, have fun with little time and respect the others. I see a lot of people disrespecting other in the game.
Modern players can dp and super easier of course they have an advantage over guys in ranked. Top players are cracked enough to react and input like it’s modern.
Does it matter which one? It's a fight, so strategy is the key, right?
I think modern controls would be better balanced if they had it do more damage than it does atm but add at least some startup to supers
tbh assist controls in any fighting game are generally bad and the people who complain about them are usually scrubs who werent winning their games anyways.
Modern Zangief I have to say is a lot of fun. I run Modern Zangief when I'm just BSing and want to have fun, I run Classic Akuma when i'm actually trying to compete and get better.
Modern does a great job of getting you into the game and is better for players up to masters. But it has no advantage at that point so it is working as intended
This is how i break it down to people. Lets say you could double your running speed but at the sacrifice of losing both of your arms Do you have an advantage over someone with regular speed and two arms? yeah sure you have an advantage at running but do you have an overall advantage at life? most people would say no and if you lost a fight against someone who is really fast but has no arms would anyone feel like it was unfair? the advantages you get from playing modern do not out weigh the COST you have to pay when you pick modern.
I understand the hate for modern controls (very surprised that it hasn't died down a year into the game tho), but people are talking about it like they're some cheats that only certain players have access to.
Like... bro. If they're supposedly so superior and give you such an advantage then why don't YOU just use it too? We used to put people on ScrubQuotes for whining about modern, I don't get why that sentiment has flipped now
I mean regardless if ppl want to play modern they can it’s in the game for a reason, is neither a disadvantage or and advantage , some ppl can’t adapt to classic gameplay so capcom placed it for a reason. Play the game and if you lose to a modern player is cause he defiantly know his stuff as a modern player.
Dhalsim players are bottom of humanity, worse then modern control ragequitters
I tell people all the time, modern players are at a big disadvantage. If you are complaining about modern, you're just bad. Plain and simple.
Do you say the same thing about Honda players?
If you are M controls you definitely aren't good
They have avantages and inconvenients: they lose out on some buttons but they have on the other hand super reliable anti airs and very dangerous on reaction reversals. There's a reason some pros play on modern
@@cheeks_of_the_boreal_valley not saying you can't play good on M, you probably just wont win 1st place. Until someone proves the FGC though right?
So the answer is Git Gud .... Cries when Beat em Up Games are about to die and have massive Player Drops.... Intelligence at its best People !
You telling me instant dps and Ca are not a clear advantage????
It just occurred to me that Jimmy never charges for Denjin Hadouken. He'll charge for Denjin Hashogeki if the opponent is dazed. But that's it. I guess because he plays Ryu as a rushdown player. Hmmm.
Until the patch comes using dejin for the fireball is rarely a good reason to save it lol. If u cant Chuck one and recharge might as well keep it fpr the hasho damage
Most of the time it's not worth giving up oki.
0:49 yeah I wish my friends who played with me in this game could subscribe to this mindset. Their new so its understandable but they would get stomped by a modern player and go "moderns so broken". Their are trade offs to modern and depending on the player could be worse. If you get smoked by someone using modern its probably because their just better period.
Jimmy cant build an arguement regarding modern controls that is more complex than "if you think its better pick it" - "high level players dont use it so its worse".
Ofc these things are true but theres a whole discussion about game design and what makes the game fun that hes either ignoring or blind to.
Play what you think is fun then. Your argument makes no sense.
@@stanislas_biliby5182
I dont know if you can notice, but i havent actually given my arguement in any way, nor do I intend to.
Modern is fair it’s just you need to approach them differently. I’m a 1600MR master AKI, seems like In that rank you need to bait reversals.
And be careful at full screen because they can react with supers and such a few frames faster. Now at pro level… I believe it’s a disadvantage to use modern.
I play both because I see genuine potential with modern, but classic is more fun ngl.
The only advantage modem players have are DPs. I have yet to play against one where I've landed a clean jump in.
And I guess frame 1 supers
Modern is cancer takes no skill to press one button and then on top of it they have no chance for input error doing moves or specials which is bullshit.
I agree. Anyone with invincible moves makes it ten times worse.
must’ve ignored the entire video
Then play on Modern and get to Master with one button if it takes no skill...
1.Skill
2.Issue
@@Chris-sm2uj yea cause it takes skill to press 1 button then 2 buttons for a super. shut up clown.
complaining about M controls is just a skill issue imo. You didn't lose because they have a 1 button DP. You lost because they were better than you,
The only real character IMO that wins from M controls is Gief
tbh if i get better i think i would steam roll every modern player i get on matches, but for the time being i just get boddied by morden controls xd
You absolutely will, I lose to almost every player that realizes I don't have as many mixup tools or many tools in general for most characters. Once they stop pressing buttons and actually start blocking it gets pretty difficult to land a clean hit. Mirror matches are a pain in neutral since they can out range you (but we get one button specials so I guess it evens out but I rarely use them).
I don't rematch modern. I'm not a pro and I'm playing at a disadvantage fighting someone with instant supers and 100% accuracy on all anti airs and cross cuts. I don't care what people think.
😂
skill issue?
@@Chris-sm2uj like I said. I dont care
That's not cool man. 😮💨
At 42, my hands aren't where they used to be with all the arthritis... some of us use modern for medical reasons
This guy KAM does this regualary, i played this fuck 2 times now and he ragequit BOTH thoose times when we fought eachother. He cant probally help him self tho since hes both Modern and a Ken player : )
As a modern player….we’re not all like that. 😅
Bro for real.
And in my defense I play modern online and it's like I'm being punished for it.
modern controls deal 20% less dmg on the special moves and they don't have all normals. Those are very huge disadvantages
Depends on the character, plus you can still do motion inputs for full damage so there is quite literally an advantage when in comes to supers and specials. Its not that simple.
@@penence347 it is, stop complaining about me mechanics that keeps playing that dont want carpal tunnel. Modern controls is the best thing in sf6 and they should also add the neutral moves that are missing
@@highlion8998 at what point was i complaining? Even if i was stop being a baby and acting like motion inputs are the most demanding and crippiling difficult thing in the world, if a guy can play and win some tournament matches with a driving wheel you have nothing to bitch about. Secondly, motion inputs are not arbitrary they exist for a reason. There has always been a tradition of input as a balancing tool i.e sonic booms being better then fireball due to the charge input. Modern controls break that tradition so it warrents debate.
If u cant beat em, join em
This is just annoying to explain… 1. Modern players are missing not only 20% of their damage for faster input but also some IMPORTANT NORMALS. So when you say that Luke is able to play one button 1lvl super don’t forget he is fucking missing good air-to-air option JMP, long MK poke, and best JHP.
2. Players gain their super bars with the same speed and if your opponent lands one button super on you it’s with reduced damage. You have the same bar and can respond after that. Everyone is talking like only modern players have their supers and classic players don’t. If you died because your opponent performed one button super, but your bar is still full - the problem is not in your opponent’s controls, but with your resource management. If not, you always have a chance to respond.
3. If you’re scared of one button DP JUST STOP JUMPING. Why does no one complain about Honda’s real one button anti-air that leads to punish counter and full combo?