Max’s grandkids: Hey grandpa Max? What was video games like back in your time? Max: back in my day, our fingers bleed while we’re doing super combos *children’s eyes began to sparkle and shocked with awe*
I’ll say this: If you played any Street Fighter on ANY PlayStation controller (specifically the PS2 or PS3), you DEFINITELY got blisters on your thumbs. And if you were a fiend (like me and my homeboy was) you FOUGHT through the pain of that blister.
☠️☠️☠️ "back in my day we had to take 4 bus transfers both ways to go to the arcade. And you had to fight for the good side of the cabinet because the stick wasn't always good on the right side"
When I was a kid, it didn't feel that great. Now that I'm an adult, it feels *_great_* when I go back to play the Street Fighter Alphas and the Marvel vs Capcoms and thr Tekkens of the world.
Honestly Yes I right now, prefer SFV and Tekken with an arcade stick, even tho in Tekken im still figuring out how to dash consistently With DBFZ and now Strive, i really cant use the stick I'll try to use it more and play with it, but its mostly the dashes that stop me from doing great. I know that theres a dash button, wich im trying to get used to But especially in Strive, i really havent figured a layout i like
@@filipepires9860 don't know if this will help, but on strive I have my layout as: Top row: P S H BurstMacro Bottom row: K DashMacro D --- This makes it quite easy to dash for me at least.
@@Jhitch19 Right now i think i have P S D Burst Macro K H Dash Macro I think ill for sure try yours S and HS need to be togheter, so yours works in that way I think ill use in the bottom row K D DashMacro instead The thing is, since i bought the stick i havent used it that much since i was in a DBFZ phase, so my muscle memory is still shit haha Anyway, thx for the tip ^^
I'm middle age now, in my 40's, and I was and am a gamer. I remember the 90's calloused knuckles and pinched finger tips. You had to use knuckles to get more damage off of X-Moves in X-Men Children of the Atom, Marvel Super Heroes: Infinite Wars, Darkstalkers and X-Men vs Street Fighter. Roll your knuckles rapidly across the 3 buttons to do more hits with Ultra/X-moves, etc... and you FELT the friction burn. Also, yea, the buttons were concave and pinched between the button and the outer ring as your skin got caught in the gap between. Dude, I would have never remembered had Max not brought this up today. It blows my mind the things you forget. What a nice little peace of memory there.
@@TheAndrewJohnBennett I think the Genesis/Saturn layout is the best since it best replicates a stick. Just make sure you have the 4 shoulders anyway like the Hori Octa or Raion
@@cozycherry1790 from the reviews I’ve seen it would seem the Hori Octa is even better than the Razer Raion, specifically when it comes to how the d-pad works. I have the Raion and get a lot of missed inputs because of how you can technically push down all directions at once, so half circle movements are really hard to get right on it. It appears to be better on the Octa, but haven’t tried it to back it up.
I just bought my very first fight stick- The MayFlash F300. I’m putting in hours practicing on it as it’s VERY different compared to a controller, however, I’m now addicted to the FEEL of the fight stick. Thank you Max🙏🏾🙏🏾
This is some damn fine content. This is the kinda stuff, the history, the practicality, the meaning and depth of fighting games that are incredible to learn. I'm an old arcade rat from the 90s, and seeing/hearing this talk from someone who is real and genuine is amazing.
Listening to you talk about fighting games has got me into them over the last few years. Just hearing you talk about something your this passionate about makes me want to love these games. Thank you for making this content
"There's somethings that works better on a controler. There's somethings that work better on a stick." That reminds me of a player that plays Tekken. He mains two characters and he plays stick with one and pad with other just because it's strings works better with that kind of controler.
i got one for tekken and dropped it after a month or two but i still use it to play my beginner friends as a handicap which is pretty fun and arcade style games like cuphead etc are so much more fun with an arcade stick
Yeah, it should all really be based on a case-by-case basis, some characters just plainly work better on a stick, some you can get the inputs out pretty fast on a controller. Trying to play Yuzuriha from UNIST on a controller is just making it 10 times harder than yourself than with a stick. The same goes for characters who have a hold and release button mechanic in some fighting games, without an arcade stick, or I guess a weird ass grip on your controller, you are just making it so much harder for yourself than it has to be.
I prefer pretty much every thing on a stick…doa, tekken, steeet fighter or kof. The only exception is games that require a 5th button to block…..mk or injustice spring to mine.
@@BMKidProductions Craziest stuff I've seen was a guy getting beat up for picking Rugal, K9999 and Angel on KOF2k2 Although I've heard stories of someone getting stabbed because they used Yamazaki's HSDM, which could shut down the machine in the Magic Plus hack
Here in latin america I've seen so many fist fights lol The good thing is that if you abused a glitch or bug to win....oh boi, you were gonna get some action hah I remember kicking a kid that was abusing the infinite power charge combo Terry used to have in kof97 (that was patched on the next game) lmao Good times 😌
Honestly I remember in like 2015 I started getting into fighting games and I just really wanted to try fightstick, even though I knew it wouldn’t make me better or anything. Idk why it just really looked like it would be more fun to play on. I ended up getting one, absolutely loving how it felt and never went back since
Me too in 2015 but i go back and forth using keyboard. Maybe a mixbox one day as i like arcade buttons better. Older games though works best with sticks
I recently got into fighting games and just got a fight stick. I see a bunch of stuff on motion inputs not being necessary but like I just started playing third strike and I really like getting good a them and just learning them. I hope motion inputs and fight sticks stay for a long while
@@sageofnothing2061 I started playing 3rd strike too and although I kinda like playing on a keyboard/hitbox, I kinda feel more at home with an arcade stick, especially with motion inputs. dashing and motion inputs feel easier on an arcade stick to me but hitbox style feels more like direct control.
@@CUTIE_POXX So true. I've always played them but crossed from casual Capcom to SO MANY GAMES last year. KoF 02 UM is one of the most fun games I have ever played in my life, has roll back, and is $7.
As a casual gamer of the genre, getting back into fighting games after few months always puts me into reset mode when it comes to using an arcade stick. The muscle memory doesn't take hold as long as a controller does since I don't use a stick for other genres. And that's on top of relearning the games' mechanics and the characters' moves.
Dood I’ll be honest, watching this channel for so many years has made me go out and get a fight stick or 2. I agree that it doesn’t make you better by any means, but damn does it make the game more fun. Thank you Max for getting me super far down the fighting game rabbit hole!
What you're describing is a d-pad that uses microswitches as opposed to a rubber membrane. The "joystick" on the Neo Geo Pocket used an eight-way microswitch setup (since SNK knew their pocket fighting games would benefit from it), it feels really nice and I wish more companies would adopt such things. In fact I'm very surprised that some of the newer Xbox controllers have this on their D-pads, yet none of Razer's console controllers do despite Razer using their mouse switches for the other controller buttons.
My thumb has been hurting a bit trying to input max super specials in kof13, so I've come to realise that getting a fightstick will help me feel more comfortable.
Its all preference at the end of the day. The only time I see it having an advantage is in games like Sf4 where you can use techniques like plinking, pianoing, and double tapping. But I have seen players like Smug do plinking on a pad using the shoulder buttons on the left side. I do think Hitbox controllers has the advantage on stick and controller just on the fact that you have better control of your inputs.
Shiet, the fact Daigo was able to do charge moves easily with guile on a pad for the first time just basically shows he could learn to apply his knowledge from stick to pad if given time and even probably master doing that forward knee whiff into super on a damn pad! It's all preference!
@@raystrife234 Okay so why did he prefer using a hitbox in tournaments and not a pad? In a hitbox your inputs are way quicker and precise because every finger on your left hand is assigned to a direction which results in smooth and quick inputs, you can literally press back while you press forward for a sonic boom to get the quickest charge and you cant do that with a stick or pad. On a pad you still require motions from your thumb to get moves to come out but you can still have input errors. You can still suceed with a pad but hitbox has the advantage of pressing attacks as quick as a stick and has quicker directional inputs than both stick and pad.
@@56clockwork you really think I was arguing with your statement? Because I was doing the opposite. Daigo was invited in an SF5 live stream a while back with other sf5 pros and had an event where players will randomly either play a stick or a pad. He got pad while punk got stick and it was probably his first time playing sf5 on a pad because he looked like a newborn with it and yet he managed to hold himself against punk even for a while with pad. I'm not saying he's going to go pad all the way and I knew he went hitbox later on. What I'm saying is if Daigo could pick up pad right then and there and even did decently, when he practiced with a stick all his life in sf5, then that just means he could move to pad if he wanted to but he prefers stick. Smug could do much better because he prefers pad over stick and practiced on pad more than anyone in sf5. It's all preference dude just like you said
I used to hold the stick like a wine cup with the stick in between my middle and ring finger. I used to bleed all the damn time every time I did a super. That's why I used to prefer the bat since it forced me to hold it "properly". On the flip side d-pad on the SNES would eat away at your flesh anytime you did a qcf movement in SF2 Turbo. So it was no party on pads either at the time.
There was a project that got delisted from like kickstarter that pretty much drew blood from you whenever you took damage in a game, obviously for donation purposes. I'd like to see that in EVO one of these days.
As someone who only got seriously into fighting games in early 2021, I always wanted to try stick cos it looks cool. Bought one this past December for Christmas and it is definitely a big change as I've used pad all my life, but it feels so cool and satisfying doing a basic bnb or landing a combo ending in a super. It's just fun tbh
@@Oroboro888 I have a switch and I'm in South Africa so the options are a bit limited but I snagged a Mayflash F300 cos it works across pretty much all consoles, feels really sturdy and I'm loving it so far
Apparently the PS5 Dpad is not good so maybe veer away from that. I used the 8BitDo SN30 Pro Plus, there's newer versions out so check it out online. Think the newest is the 8BitDo Pro 2, Dpad felt great @@Scrappy208
I bought my first arcade stick at November last year. I always been a pad player. It's true that sticks don't give you an advantage. But I like that making circular moves and pressing multiple buttons at the same time are easier. Specially for SF. And the most important thing is your fingers don't get tired because you have to use your whole arm. I play A lot of shmups too and with a d-pad your fingers gets destroyed to be constantly dodging things. Also I found more fun to play with a stick.
im someone who got an arcade stick because i struggled with motion inputs, especially Z inputs. I personally say if you dont struggle with motion inputs on a controller you really dont need one, but if you do I suggested getting a cheap one and seeing how it changes
Z inputs is just forward quarter circle forward for controllers. The thing that's irritating is how close the inputs are, and how tiring playing with your thumbs only. Was a dpad player before switching to fight stick a year ago. You can easily do 65236 compared to a dpad where you actually have to life your finger to go back to neutral x.x
@@johnpetersantiago2630 That depends on the game. Some are stricter than others. 63236 can be a failed input depending on game. And with how much speed matters for an average DP, allowing the full reset to neutral was quite cumbersome for me, *especially* for air DPs. I specifically remember trying to find a way to do Baiken's "Youzansen" reliably and I just couldn't get it. And as you mentioned, characters with both a QCF and a Z-input on the same button were also a pain.
Nope, can not use a D-Pad or the Left Stick on a controller to save my life in a fighting game. Just recently got into the genre hardcore the last 3 months or so... I have to use a fight stick to pull of the moves more consistently.
I like them because I never got to experience arcades as a kid, and there was something I found very mystifying about sticks when watching people play online and at conventions. It's like being able to finally experience this big historical piece of gaming.
I'm born in 95 and I feel the same way! Arcades were around, but none of my friends really played games, so it was always the racing games or light-gun ones when we were in one. and I also just thinks it's more fun playing games the genres hardware
Idk backdashing on a pad feels just fine to me, I never use sticks though so idk if it's easier or not but just the fact that sticks require so much more motion makes it seem like it would be at least more strenuous if not not also more difficult
@@stinkybinth9672 Easy to perfom, but not very comfortable to do in the long run. The advantage of using a Korean stick is with a slight movement of the fingers, you perform the command and after releasing the sitck to return to neutral it gives you the possibility to cancel the backdash without the effort of registering another input. Core-A Gaming explains it better in one of their videos talking about KBD.
perfectly said, i've always been a pad user and i manage to do well that way is all the fighting games i play. i do have a stick but like max said it's starting from scratch learning wise. every uses what they are comfortable with these days.
@@noahleach7690 I think he's saying the opposite either way that's stupid I'm watching this wishing I grew up with arcades those creeky boned fucked don't know how good they got it
Wonder what its like to be new to the genre, ask about whether learning arcade stick is worth it, only to find out the best controller for FGs is the one that feels most like the keyboards they already use daily?
I started playing on the SNES with controllers originally. Loving Street Fighter I played in the arcade when I could and was somewhat competent with a Fight Stick. I have started to get back into it now after 20 plus years. Currently experimenting with some 6 button controllers (Hori Pads, etc), and a Fight Stick I picked up. Definitely don't have the same control using the joystick that I used to have and I am much more proficient with a D-Pad. But need to put in some more hours on the arcade stick. While I have continued to use a D-Pad over the years for other games, you are right in saying that learning the Fight Stick is like starting again. At least it is for me after so many years.
If you can, playing on an actual keyboard is a great option. It is principally the same as a hitbox but nowhere near the cost. I've been using it to play Strive and it is so much easier
@@KhariruOficial suit yourself, but at the end of the day, it’s just about what feels the most comfortable for the individual and what gets the most consistent results. If someone decided to play using a guitar hero controller because it felt better for them, who am I to argue with them?
@@pinkestlemonade1916 I personally prefer to assign up to the space bar instead of wasd so it works more like a hitbox this means if I want to me able to put my fingers on every button instead of a wierd claw grip which I find uncomfortable you can have your fingers more easily on every key. Also if you want to do certain inputs like a vertical charge it's not as much movement required so it's easier. It's down to personal choice so you do you.
Surprised the customization aspect wasn't brought up. Its a great hobby outside of actually playing the game. Being able to choose what stick, what buttons, what art, etc. is a really, REALLY fun part of sticks. That being said, of course that has nothing to do with actually playing the game (as far as the pad vs stick question), but it is another aspect.
Building your fightstick is nice. My fiancee and I have somewhat unordinary builds. She has a Sega 2P layout with 24mm buttons along with an octagon gate for her Sanwa. I use the IL Eurostick and I love it. I will admit I did choose the Eurostick for the dumb reason that I wanted something unique.
Yeah. Customizing your own arcade stick is a really fun project. I'm just about to finish my first one, actually. Even though the entire thing was hell (My initial stick was stolen off my front porch, I learned I ordered the wrong size buttons, not finding the right size buttons in the right color, and learning how to wire everything as I was putting the damn thing together), I still had a lot of fun. I'm also thinking of the design of my next stick already, but I'm probably not going to do that for a while, though.
@@Thunder8277 Porch pirates suck and sometimes pickup locations aren't an option for everyone so I understand. I have a UPS pickup in my town but a FedEx pickup is in a different city. I wish I was able to offer a solution but it seems you have it figured out.
@@nerdyneedsalife8315 That event was what made me buy a RING doorbell/ camera. Thankfully, the seller was cool and let me buy a new one at a discounted price.
For me I always remember Tekken's combination of using square + circle combos. With the controller you have to take your hands out. That for me was enough to change to an arcade stick
One thing I'll say about sticks is that they handle charge and mash inputs a lot better than a controller. Being able to piano for characters like Honda or Gen is fantastic, and being able to use the rest of your hand while charging for Zero's buster cancel combos or Shizumaru's tap is incredible.
I think there is a genuine advantage to the stick if you play a six-button fighting game. A controller will absolutely work, but there are just a ton of tiny advantages to using a stick. Subjectively, hitting big buttons is also just super fun.
I remember working in an arcade in the early 2000s and on some fighting game cabinets, the techs were fixing them every other week because they saw so much action. Great days.
I started getting ganglion cysts actually using a pad jumping back into FGs. An arcade stick helped me alot in that regard. Made my inputs cleaner. But thats purely preference
Oooh so that was the reason, I'm a fan of FGs and Tetris, during last summer I played a lot of those games and one of my wrists started hurting like hell, I stopped playing for like a month and that fixed it, I thought it was like a muscle strain but ganglion cysts makes more sense
@@estebanacostaolivera3232 yeah they are like bumps that surface between your wrists and your hand. Id recommend icing after a long time playing. It helps me relieve the strain left on the tendons
it was DMC3 swordmaster mashing for me. no doctor ever mentioned cysts- only "tendonitis" which is just a catch-all for "stop doing what you're doing" syndrome. R.I.C.E.
If you ask me, it 100% boils down to this: Do you want an arcade stick? Does it look appealing? Have you played with one in an arcade and really liked it? If the answer to any of these questions is yes, then buy an arcade stick.
For me, I just cannot get my thumb to move fast enough to consistently do a lot of inputs, so that’s part of my reasoning to start using a stick instead
There's a learning curve to any controller honestly. I used a fightstick when I first started playing fighting games cause I thought they looked cool. But I got a bunch of wrist injuries on my left arm because of work and had to switch to a hitbox layout. And it really did take a while for me to relearn how to play the games I enjoyed but eventually it got better. The controller doesn't matter as much as how much you enjoy the game and how much work you're willing to put in to get better at those games
thats my problem, some of the half circles or movements for some characters i find it hard to do on one side. on the right side i find some moves hard to do
Couple things: *Your thumbs are slower than your other 4 fingers. And you have a lot more access to all of the face buttons. The stick can make it much easier to make particular directional movements rather than miss/hit things by accident, thanks to more movement. I actually JUST got a stick for the first time, having very little experience with arcade sticks (even in arcades) and I'm feeling the advantages already. I don't dispute that champs use controllers, but I still maintain that the advantages of a stick can't be denied.
First your first point, do you, have four fingers on each button? For SF I guess that makes sense, but I play Tekken and it'd be 2 fingers, but they'd have to travel further, so it's just as fast as my thumb
I play with a D-pad...I was the sheltered kid that learned to play on console, not arcades, so, never had a stick growing up. Still on pad to this day and I'm cool with it.
@@Jhitch19 ive been playing xbox 360 and one games for like 10-12 years, and using just my thumb on the d-pad to swipe a QCF movement is very quick for me as for people who use the stick on a controller for fighting games, i dont know how they are fine with that.
@@crazako I agree that it was very fast for inputs, but using my controller (Xbox Series controller) the D-pad was almost sharp and my thumb started to hurt like hell. Maybe it's different for other Xbox controllers (have a 360 controller but don't think I ever really used the d-pad)
I got into fighting games with DBFZ after 20 years of PC gaming, and after fooling around with a few pads (none of which felt natural since I wasn't much of console gamer), I tried hitbox and instantly loved it. Very happy to have started out with it.
Anyone can be great on any piece of hardware. The psychological thrill of “I have a cool, special, fancy controller just for playing this type of game,” though, is something that needs to be stated. Theoretically, you could be better at playing guitar hero with a keyboard, but it’s *guitar hero*. The guitar is part of the fun.
Also this. I had a friend come over and we played fighting games one night, like, a decade ago now, and trying to be good at Street Fighter on a Playstation controller tore a hole in my left thumb. Wished I had an arcade stick back then, and now I have one and I love it.
As an older gamer (early 40s), who's been playing fighting games since the original street fighter (not sf2), my left thumb is in bad shape. The dpad kills me to the point I've had to stop playing fighting games entirely (f). Buying a fighting stick is my only hope. So that's a solid reason to get one. I need my killer instinct.
My fiancee and I are in our 20s and we agree with your notion. The D-pad, especially for PS4, is a killer on the left thumb. Her thumb was slightly bruised and purple after an hour of playing. That is why we play with arcade sticks now for fighting games.
Not gonna lie, but that's probably one of my favorite videos of his. Just so weird, but after watching it, makes so much sense. So yes please, Fighting Game Food Real Talk Round 2.
@@BobbyJenko its definitely been a ton of fun, but I'm still struggling with dashes and drive rush especially. I just know that input is easier for me on pad still lol
@@pregnanttomato9576 for sure. There is going to be an update to make drive rush cancels a macro. So no more double forward inputs, just connect a move then press parry for an auto drive rush!
Also its nice for shmup, metal slug, puzzle bubble and a big nostalgia bomb. Arcades are wonderlands to us kids back then. Arcade stick is our most accessible connection from that.
a stick helped me a lot when it comes to tekken, not much when it comes to other games like king of fighters but it feels nicer on my hand and doesn't feel sore after playing for a long time compared to controller
i recently bought an arcade stick about 3 months ago and im in love with it. do you need it? no. but if possible i HIGHLY recommend talking to a friend that has one or going to an arcade with these and trying them out because they are so much more fun to play with, at least in my opinion, and by trying it out you can see if youd like to get one or not.
I've always been a pad player. I did spend sometime in arcades, but not enough to matter. I've been on the fence and I think this video really pulled me towards giving a Stick a try. I've always been about appreciating the nostalgia of games and embracing what makes a game amazing regardless of its age (thinks like old school developer methods or mechanics that were lost to time). So even though I have literally zero problem with a pad nor do I care what one plays... I kinda feel like learning stick allows me to shotgun myself to the way games were appreciated back in their day. Even if I still enjoy pad and mostly played on pad.. I might try a stick. Now it's a matter of finding a solid one.
Use what makes YOU happy. Fuck what anyone else says. At the end of the day, as long as you arent cheating, ANY hardware will take time and dedication. So it's best to use what you like the most.
After learning about Initial-T's steering wheel as well as using the gear shifter to win a GGXrd tournament against Dogura, I am convinced that sticks don't give an advantage.
@@anhquanphan3089 There is a Guilty Gear player called Intial-T, he calls himself that because he uses a steering wheel to play the game. He used his steering wheel to win a tournament against some of Japan's most well known GG pros.
Good points. I switched to fight stick and I am enjoying it! I am experiencing way less problems with tendonitis now. I already draw a lot so gripping a controller and doing those fine motor movements were wearing my forearms out. Fight stick is more comfortable and fun so far. It's also better in my opinion for tapping out combos, like gattling combos in anime fighters. You are right it has taken some getting used to but not as much as I expected. Still progressing but I enjoy it a ton.
It’s weird. Street Fighter 2 was my jam in the arcade when I was a teenager. Played MK2 a lot on Genesis, it was the reason I got a 6 button genesis controller. Now that I’m getting back into fighting games I ordered an arcade stick and it feels natural to me, even if I don’t know the mechanics of modern fighters.
I’m just tryna get into fighting games I just don’t know what fighting games to choose that are begginer friendly I tried street fighter can guess how that went
@@D4YT0N4 street fighter 4 has 1 frame inputs and you need to have solid fundamentals, neutral and footsies. its harder than many other fighting games like MK11, GGS, DBFZ, IJ, SamSho. you need to have a lot of match up knowledge and react more than predict as in other games. I wouldnt recommend anyone playing SF4 and even the arguably easier SFV to learn fighting games.
As a person of exceptional size, the inputs on a controller tend to make my thumbs accidentally hit an analogue stick when I'm using a Dpad. As such, I spent a little money on a budget entry stick once I got somewhat serious about strive, and I don't regret it at all.
Pads are great. Especially if you know how to mod the dpad to reduce thumb movement but keep accuracy. Actually for fighting games, the duelshock and duelsense pads are great. There are no other controllers with good enough input latency for fighting games
Kinda funny you bring us callouses with old arcade sticks cause I started playing on stick when I started getting blisters on my left thumb playing +R on pad. I rubbed my thumb across the dpad so much and so fast it got so bad. So I looked into sticks. Then I got into the idea of being able to accessorize it and was hooked.
Exactly, same here. I got so annoyed of the thumb issues that I got a stick, and I haven't looked back now. I hate playing fighting games without one lol.
you can power through it and grow callouses as well on dpad, sucks at first but then its not an issue. I am jealous of sticks customization options though
I've played arcade and console games since I can remember (and I am very old) and me or my friends never suffered any hand injuries with a stick, but I had more than one blister/callus from playing with a gamepad, so I would say console players' hands tend to suffer more than an arcade stick user's. I did get some shit on my collarbone while playing arcade MK1, but that's another story, I just had very bad posture and habits lol.
I would like to add as I currently now own and am learning an arcade stick, it is helping me build better habits for fighting games, for example doing manual supers in versus games, usually I’d map supers to the right shoulders so all I need to do is the input and press a button, now, hitting the supers and other multi button commands the way they were intended? Feels amazing ^^
Playing on pad made me overly rely on macros (triple punches/kicks in one button for EXs, RCs in Guilty Gear, wierd Neo Geo button combos, etc.). Going on keyboard has helped in removing that reliance for me, and I can't wait to get a stick and reliably pull off a half-circle again.
@@AceTrainerX3 yeah even now when I do play on pad to learn a new character or team Before I practice what I learn on stick, I’m not using those manual macros for supers or special moves, just the face buttons and my dedicated assist buttons bound to r1 and R2 or R and ZR on switch ^^
I’m new to fighting games and never really had much experience with arcade sticks but I decided to get one and I have definitely already passed my skill level with a controller in a week and I’ve been having a blast playing with it.
Take it from someone who switched from pad to stick less than three months ago: It's worth it. It just... Feels better, imo. Having a clicky stick, and responsive buttons.
Man I love my clicking sticky and responsive Sanwa buttons on my Daija, I'm never going back to dpad + no more pain my left arm's thumb from the analog.
It was the reverse for me. The arcades didnt encourage me to try stick, the stick encouraged me to go to arcades. Got into a lot of classic games just too have more things too do with stick. Then I started busting it out for a lot of modern non fighting games just too see if it works and a lot of times it does. I think there's a alot more to sticks then it just being tied to arcades nostalgia. Something about the tactility of switches and the actuation of the lever gives an assurance of input you cant find anywhere else.
Here's my story: Due to my crazy academic life, I managed to get into fighting games seriously right after I graduated from college, which was a couple of months ago. - I tried using my gamepad but the d-pad broke (right button doesn't register sometimes) and the analog stick is damn hectic for executing motion inputs. - Then I tried using a keyboard but the layout is so cluttered that caused unintentionally missing inputs. Since I'm on a laptop, I also thought it would be a bad idea to use the keyboard for fighting games because it would damage the system in the long term. - My keyboard failure automatically rules out the "hitbox" option so as a last resort, I'll try an arcade stick when I'll come back to fighting games. Why did I explain all of those? Because my reason to prefer arcade sticks is solely "running out of options". I'm not too experienced in FGs in general, so it won't be any different than starting from zero, developing muscle memory shouldn't be a problem.
As someone relatively new to a stick, I can say the feedback and arm action needed make it a lot more fun to me over a controller. However it is all just preference, and I think both are completely fine.
I personally find motion inputs more intuitive on arcade sticks, which is why i prefer stick to pad. I always felt like on pad i misinput things like half circles since my thumbs are kinda big. I dont have that problem as often on stick
I play guilty gear on a controller, and my favorite thing Arc Sys did with their game is giving binds to multi-button inputs like Roman cancels and perfect defense, it makes the controller a life saver
My muscle memory makes it impossible to just switch to a fight stick after decades of using a d-pad and I grew up in arcades but I definitely played more console games due to arcades dropping off in popularity. Doesn't mean they're not fun, love playing Metal Slug on a stick
@@mydemon for casual games or different genres it's fine but a fighting game hell no, I don't have time for that shit anymore to dedicate months to get used to it
@@mydemon six months? It takes usually two months to adapt to it. Yeah it's awkward at first, but if you map the buttons yourself then as long as you understand the game you're playing it'll come quicker. Unless you're a slow learner of course. Which is totally valid btw, everyone learns at a different pace.
Thank you, I'm just getting into Guilty Gear Strive, and haven't really played fighters before, so I was looking at fight sticks. I think I'll stick to a controller because I definitely have muscle memory there.
You are the same as me. Guilty Gear Strive is the first fighting game I have started playing in 15 years. And I feel I'll stick to the controller too :) Here's to happy learning to the two of us ✌️
@@KitsGravity One thing he didn't mention here is hand fatigue. For me, using just my thumb to press the directions and buttons gets very tiring and crampy in a long session on a pad. When you have it spread across all your fingers, and your whole arm and wrist, it may take a larger movement, but I find it's less stressful overall compared to the beating my thumbs get. Thing is, maybe that's just me!
What really helped me learn how to use Stick was Tetris: The Grandmaster (technically it was TAP2, but i digress). After a few weeks of regular practice, I was relatively confortable with using stick quickly in every other game.
Oh man, I remember in vanilla SF4 when I got my stick, I sucked so hard for about a week. Then I started to get used to it, and my playing got so much better. End of the day, it is all about what you are most comfortable using. On the toic of us making out hands bleed, I vividly remember that, back when the words "Test your might" meant, your hands will bleed for this.
I've been trying to learn fighting games for the first time with cammy on sfv. Was struggling with some motion inputs, especially dive kicks. Got an arcade stick, never looking back. I'm not connected to legacy at all, but it definitely feels so natural to play fighting games this way.
Cammy player here, yeah quarter circles are much better with stick in my opinion. Same as you, did not grow up with arcades, just did not playing with pad.
So that's why it sounds like Lord Knight is trying to destroy his stick whenever he presses a button. It's a habit carried over from having to deal with old arcade machines. The more ya know
I can definitely vouch for the muscle memory factor. Back in the SNES era, OG Killer Instinct was one of the titles I spent the most time on. I wasn't exactly super-good (I have a physical disability that inhibits my fine motor control), but I could consistently execute most moves and do some passable combos on any given character. But ONLY on a pad; when I tried using a stick at an actual arcade cabinet nothing worked right. Street Fighter 2 and its variants gave me the same problem. Mortal Kombat less so as its controls were hella janky no matter what you were playing on. I've listened to people for years claim that sticks were better, and it's incredibly frustrating to try and get the point through a stick fanatic's head that sticks don't work for everyone. To the point that I basically gave up on fighting games until a PS3 landed in my hands through some odd "buy this, get that free" deal.
The thumb on my left hand was hurting so bad in about an hour of playing SFV on a Xbox Controller, so I got a Nacon Daija Arcade Stick and I had to learn everything from the start, but for me it was worth it, my wrists and arms still get a bit tired from the stick, but it's not even nearly as bad as how my thumb was hurting from the stupid Xbox analog. You can pretty much get a decent arcade stick for just a little over the price of a console controller, but in the end its a personal preference.
Yeah almost exactly the same with me, but my issue was with the d-pad. My thumb gets super tired and raw skin from sliding it around on the d-pad. With the stick I can at least play until I'm bored, not because my thumb hurts too much.
Okay, so I'm a casual fan, but I grew up in arcades. Most of my fighting game experience came from my high school days stopping by the old pinball joint on the way home, and checking out SFIV, TvC, and a bunch of anime fighters. Nowadays, when I play fighting games on pad, I tend to take a weird grip that kinda simulates a stick. It looks and feels pretty silly, but the legacy stays with me, even without buying a stick.
i bought a stick for guilty gear strive to learn how to play fighting games, i can input the commands much easier on stick. It feels more accurate to me, sometimes trying to do certain combos don't come off well on pad because i can't feel the directional inputs that well which causes me to miss the inputs. It was hard to get used to but i'm loving stick so far. The clicking feels satisfying also
I think it depends on the person, I prefer the arcade stick because I can rest my right hand on 4 buttons at once. it's not that I can't use the controllers face buttons but hitting 4 at once can be challenging and controller layouts can be confusing. I can't play blazblue on a controller. I mean, I can, but it'll be limited to button mashing since I get confused about the buttons. and since some combinations are hard to reach, you can map A+B to L or A+C to R, but that gives me more buttons and only makes it more confusing. whilst on an arcade stick I have access to 4 of them and I can go "oh, this does that, this does that, what does this combination do?" and since my hand can stay in a fixed position rather than skipping over the face buttons, I remember moves easier since in my mind they're assigned to a finger, not a position on a controller.
Been playing PC games almost exclusively most of my life and just started playing fighting games for the first time with Strive. After trying controller at first and finding no success I've actually been having a way better time on keyboard (at least once I moved the right hand keys over to the number pad instead of having my hands squished together on the letters). Really goes to what you said about being comfortable with the button layouts being the most important thing.
had a a cross up just sitting around collecting dust and started using it after playing with hitbox for a while, I'm really enjoying the stick especially for ewgf
The fight stick has been a huge help for doing precision inputs for my case. Controller joy sticks and D pad give me mis-inputs frequently. The stick feels much easier to control it's exact directions.
Max’s grandkids: Hey grandpa Max? What was video games like back in your time?
Max: back in my day, our fingers bleed while we’re doing super combos
*children’s eyes began to sparkle and shocked with awe*
I’ll say this:
If you played any Street Fighter on ANY PlayStation controller (specifically the PS2 or PS3), you DEFINITELY got blisters on your thumbs. And if you were a fiend (like me and my homeboy was) you FOUGHT through the pain of that blister.
@@chancemitchell4147 I feel that, just remembering it making my fingers hurt already lol
☠️☠️☠️ "back in my day we had to take 4 bus transfers both ways to go to the arcade. And you had to fight for the good side of the cabinet because the stick wasn't always good on the right side"
Max's grandkids: You used your fingers? * chuckle *
@@abadenoughdude300 You used your hands? It's like a baby's toy.
Shinra employee educates the public on fight sticks.
Shinra hosts a tourney several months later..
Lol
"The Planet is dying, and those assholes in Shinra are up there making a damn fighting game tournament."
The only thing missing is the shinra theme in the background xD
Thats a good one 🤣
I will never get tired of listening to people talking about things they are passionate about.
I'm sure my math teacher was passionate about his work, but his lectures always put me to sleep.
Do you NEED it? No.
Does it feel AMAZING in some games? Yes.
When I was a kid, it didn't feel that great. Now that I'm an adult, it feels *_great_* when I go back to play the Street Fighter Alphas and the Marvel vs Capcoms and thr Tekkens of the world.
Honestly
Yes
I right now, prefer SFV and Tekken with an arcade stick, even tho in Tekken im still figuring out how to dash consistently
With DBFZ and now Strive, i really cant use the stick
I'll try to use it more and play with it, but its mostly the dashes that stop me from doing great. I know that theres a dash button, wich im trying to get used to
But especially in Strive, i really havent figured a layout i like
@@filipepires9860 don't know if this will help, but on strive I have my layout as:
Top row:
P S H BurstMacro
Bottom row:
K DashMacro D ---
This makes it quite easy to dash for me at least.
@@Jhitch19 Right now i think i have
P S D Burst Macro
K H Dash Macro
I think ill for sure try yours
S and HS need to be togheter, so yours works in that way
I think ill use in the bottom row K D DashMacro instead
The thing is, since i bought the stick i havent used it that much since i was in a DBFZ phase, so my muscle memory is still shit haha
Anyway, thx for the tip ^^
@@filipepires9860 this is my first time playing a game with a fightstick, pad was ruining my thumb so I switched and am glad I did. Np!
Max talking about the arcade days like a war vet having flashbacks is my shit.
Ooooohh those were the days. Haven't you been there back in the old days? Sorry, I'm assuming you're a very young person.
He saw someone get stabbed in those days.
back when winning and losing had more weight. if you lose, you lost money kid. if you keep winning too much, well someone might taze you.
Hahaa
@@AchedSphinx taze you, lol
I'm middle age now, in my 40's, and I was and am a gamer. I remember the 90's calloused knuckles and pinched finger tips. You had to use knuckles to get more damage off of X-Moves in X-Men Children of the Atom, Marvel Super Heroes: Infinite Wars, Darkstalkers and X-Men vs Street Fighter. Roll your knuckles rapidly across the 3 buttons to do more hits with Ultra/X-moves, etc... and you FELT the friction burn. Also, yea, the buttons were concave and pinched between the button and the outer ring as your skin got caught in the gap between.
Dude, I would have never remembered had Max not brought this up today. It blows my mind the things you forget. What a nice little peace of memory there.
“Arcade sticks provide no tactical advantage.”
- Revolver Dood, 2021.
The best part is that he kinda looks like Ocelot
You're pretty good
*spins controller*
@@chocoextract6526 how about spins controller on right hand and spins arcade sticks on the other hand
@@redhawx4216 idk how would ocelot spins an arcade stick :/
Answer: Do what feels comfortable, but dont be afraid to try.
I would guess over 90% of fighting game players use a controller. Always use what’s most comfortable, but which controller is the best?
@@TheAndrewJohnBennett I think the Genesis/Saturn layout is the best since it best replicates a stick. Just make sure you have the 4 shoulders anyway like the Hori Octa or Raion
@@TheAndrewJohnBennett That's a comically large overestimation.
@@cozycherry1790 from the reviews I’ve seen it would seem the Hori Octa is even better than the Razer Raion, specifically when it comes to how the d-pad works. I have the Raion and get a lot of missed inputs because of how you can technically push down all directions at once, so half circle movements are really hard to get right on it. It appears to be better on the Octa, but haven’t tried it to back it up.
@@TabletopJunk I think its more 60-40 but I couldn't tell you side is Stick or Pad.
I just bought my very first fight stick- The MayFlash F300. I’m putting in hours practicing on it as it’s VERY different compared to a controller, however, I’m now addicted to the FEEL of the fight stick. Thank you Max🙏🏾🙏🏾
Ayyyy also bought my first in the past few weeks, got the same stick as you. It's mad fun
Got a fight stick recently it’s very satisfying to use
“Do I touch it like a sexual object?”…. Yes,…. Just yes! Lmao!
Gently grasp it, squeezing firmly but slowly
Try to keep your movements fluid and not to do anything sudden
Exactly, I use an arcade stick like how Brolylegs uses a controller with the stick in my mouth while I fundle the buttons.
Arcade sticks teach you how to handle sexual objects
@@Sorrelhas you mean cats are sexual object?
Nope...Cringe.
This is some damn fine content. This is the kinda stuff, the history, the practicality, the meaning and depth of fighting games that are incredible to learn. I'm an old arcade rat from the 90s, and seeing/hearing this talk from someone who is real and genuine is amazing.
Listening to you talk about fighting games has got me into them over the last few years. Just hearing you talk about something your this passionate about makes me want to love these games. Thank you for making this content
"There's somethings that works better on a controler. There's somethings that work better on a stick."
That reminds me of a player that plays Tekken. He mains two characters and he plays stick with one and pad with other just because it's strings works better with that kind of controler.
Core a gaming
i got one for tekken and dropped it after a month or two but i still use it to play my beginner friends as a handicap which is pretty fun
and arcade style games like cuphead etc are so much more fun with an arcade stick
Yeah, it should all really be based on a case-by-case basis, some characters just plainly work better on a stick, some you can get the inputs out pretty fast on a controller.
Trying to play Yuzuriha from UNIST on a controller is just making it 10 times harder than yourself than with a stick. The same goes for characters who have a hold and release button mechanic in some fighting games, without an arcade stick, or I guess a weird ass grip on your controller, you are just making it so much harder for yourself than it has to be.
Which character is which?
I prefer pretty much every thing on a stick…doa, tekken, steeet fighter or kof. The only exception is games that require a 5th button to block…..mk or injustice spring to mine.
Would love hear your crazy stories from arcade. Like people bleeding, grudges and crazy shit in general.
I think if you dig deep enough Max has an Arcade Stories playlist
They weren't that crazy. Depends on where you went.
It was real in New York City. I seen a guy get his ass beat because he rage quitted on SFA3 and pulled the plug out from the machine.
@@BMKidProductions Craziest stuff I've seen was a guy getting beat up for picking Rugal, K9999 and Angel on KOF2k2
Although I've heard stories of someone getting stabbed because they used Yamazaki's HSDM, which could shut down the machine in the Magic Plus hack
Here in latin america I've seen so many fist fights lol
The good thing is that if you abused a glitch or bug to win....oh boi, you were gonna get some action hah
I remember kicking a kid that was abusing the infinite power charge combo Terry used to have in kof97 (that was patched on the next game) lmao
Good times 😌
Honestly I remember in like 2015 I started getting into fighting games and I just really wanted to try fightstick, even though I knew it wouldn’t make me better or anything. Idk why it just really looked like it would be more fun to play on. I ended up getting one, absolutely loving how it felt and never went back since
This is exactly what happened to me
exactly me aswell
Me too in 2015 but i go back and forth using keyboard.
Maybe a mixbox one day as i like arcade buttons better.
Older games though works best with sticks
I recently got into fighting games and just got a fight stick. I see a bunch of stuff on motion inputs not being necessary but like I just started playing third strike and I really like getting good a them and just learning them. I hope motion inputs and fight sticks stay for a long while
@@sageofnothing2061 I started playing 3rd strike too and although I kinda like playing on a keyboard/hitbox, I kinda feel more at home with an arcade stick, especially with motion inputs. dashing and motion inputs feel easier on an arcade stick to me but hitbox style feels more like direct control.
I don’t even play fighting games, just love hearing max talk
Ya Shud. Decently accessible games that never end.
Give yourself a treat. Pick an accessible fighting game. Any door you'll open will eventually lead to every other one. It's a huge rabbit hole.
I mostly watch it for the intro
@@CUTIE_POXX So true. I've always played them but crossed from casual Capcom to SO MANY GAMES last year. KoF 02 UM is one of the most fun games I have ever played in my life, has roll back, and is $7.
I play them infrequently and I love hearing him talk
I don’t need an arcade stick but I wanna build one with my dad
Fuck yeah
@@GuitarSlayer136 Dude that sounds amazing🤩
That's the cutest comment I've read today
I want to build a relationship
I love this
As a casual gamer of the genre, getting back into fighting games after few months always puts me into reset mode when it comes to using an arcade stick. The muscle memory doesn't take hold as long as a controller does since I don't use a stick for other genres. And that's on top of relearning the games' mechanics and the characters' moves.
Clearly the answer is the Wu-Tang Clan PS1 controller.
I fancy the RE4 chainsaw controller myself
Don't fuck w/ that.
I’ve got one, I might try to play GGST on it.
@@alexknight81
Dammit! You stole my reply. I guess I'll just use the Power Glove.
Damn dude that's crazy, I was playing that on my Xbox 360 Kinect last night.
Dood I’ll be honest, watching this channel for so many years has made me go out and get a fight stick or 2. I agree that it doesn’t make you better by any means, but damn does it make the game more fun. Thank you Max for getting me super far down the fighting game rabbit hole!
And u don't get carpal tunnel
Buying an arcade stick was a decision that I made way too late in the game and was one of the most fun learning experiences ever.
I just want a controller with the d pad that clicks, not rotates
Try a series x controller in a store. The dpad is clicky and amazing now for fighting games.
What you're describing is a d-pad that uses microswitches as opposed to a rubber membrane. The "joystick" on the Neo Geo Pocket used an eight-way microswitch setup (since SNK knew their pocket fighting games would benefit from it), it feels really nice and I wish more companies would adopt such things. In fact I'm very surprised that some of the newer Xbox controllers have this on their D-pads, yet none of Razer's console controllers do despite Razer using their mouse switches for the other controller buttons.
Seriously
Battle Beaver Customs has that option with their controllers.
@@Boxish unironically I preferred using the switches dpad when I played gg accent core versus ps4 controller d pad on strive
"Controller or Arcade sticks"
*me using smoke signals on a fighting game*
So how do the smoke signals enter the game?
That guy who beat Dark Souls 3 using DK Bongos:" *PATHETIC* "
@@umpteenthreason9627 those definitely would have less input lag
I use the pokeball plus to play smash ultimate
I use the Taiko no Tatsujin drums to do electrics.
My thumb has been hurting a bit trying to input max super specials in kof13, so I've come to realise that getting a fightstick will help me feel more comfortable.
Its all preference at the end of the day. The only time I see it having an advantage is in games like Sf4 where you can use techniques like plinking, pianoing, and double tapping. But I have seen players like Smug do plinking on a pad using the shoulder buttons on the left side. I do think Hitbox controllers has the advantage on stick and controller just on the fact that you have better control of your inputs.
You can definitely plink on pad, Brian_F has a video about it on his channel
Shiet, the fact Daigo was able to do charge moves easily with guile on a pad for the first time just basically shows he could learn to apply his knowledge from stick to pad if given time and even probably master doing that forward knee whiff into super on a damn pad! It's all preference!
@@Sorrelhas Do you have a link to the video?
@@raystrife234 Okay so why did he prefer using a hitbox in tournaments and not a pad? In a hitbox your inputs are way quicker and precise because every finger on your left hand is assigned to a direction which results in smooth and quick inputs, you can literally press back while you press forward for a sonic boom to get the quickest charge and you cant do that with a stick or pad. On a pad you still require motions from your thumb to get moves to come out but you can still have input errors. You can still suceed with a pad but hitbox has the advantage of pressing attacks as quick as a stick and has quicker directional inputs than both stick and pad.
@@56clockwork you really think I was arguing with your statement? Because I was doing the opposite. Daigo was invited in an SF5 live stream a while back with other sf5 pros and had an event where players will randomly either play a stick or a pad. He got pad while punk got stick and it was probably his first time playing sf5 on a pad because he looked like a newborn with it and yet he managed to hold himself against punk even for a while with pad. I'm not saying he's going to go pad all the way and I knew he went hitbox later on. What I'm saying is if Daigo could pick up pad right then and there and even did decently, when he practiced with a stick all his life in sf5, then that just means he could move to pad if he wanted to but he prefers stick. Smug could do much better because he prefers pad over stick and practiced on pad more than anyone in sf5. It's all preference dude just like you said
People back then:"I sacrifice my blood for this move! Super activated gyaaaaaaaa!!!!!!"
I used to hold the stick like a wine cup with the stick in between my middle and ring finger. I used to bleed all the damn time every time I did a super. That's why I used to prefer the bat since it forced me to hold it "properly". On the flip side d-pad on the SNES would eat away at your flesh anytime you did a qcf movement in SF2 Turbo. So it was no party on pads either at the time.
@@apoclypse Man you must've had a lot of scars and injuries at the time grumps (joke)
There was a project that got delisted from like kickstarter that pretty much drew blood from you whenever you took damage in a game, obviously for donation purposes. I'd like to see that in EVO one of these days.
@@NinthSettler That is some scary shit dog
Like feeding your blood to your Kamui in Kill la Kill in order to power up.
As someone who only got seriously into fighting games in early 2021, I always wanted to try stick cos it looks cool. Bought one this past December for Christmas and it is definitely a big change as I've used pad all my life, but it feels so cool and satisfying doing a basic bnb or landing a combo ending in a super. It's just fun tbh
what arcade sitck did you get? I'm been wanting to buy one but I don't know what to get.
@@Oroboro888 I have a switch and I'm in South Africa so the options are a bit limited but I snagged a Mayflash F300 cos it works across pretty much all consoles, feels really sturdy and I'm loving it so far
Whats your first game?
what dpad controller do you use? i've been thinking if i should use playstation 5 controller or xbox controller
Apparently the PS5 Dpad is not good so maybe veer away from that. I used the 8BitDo SN30 Pro Plus, there's newer versions out so check it out online. Think the newest is the 8BitDo Pro 2, Dpad felt great @@Scrappy208
I bought my first arcade stick at November last year. I always been a pad player. It's true that sticks don't give you an advantage. But I like that making circular moves and pressing multiple buttons at the same time are easier. Specially for SF. And the most important thing is your fingers don't get tired because you have to use your whole arm. I play A lot of shmups too and with a d-pad your fingers gets destroyed to be constantly dodging things. Also I found more fun to play with a stick.
im someone who got an arcade stick because i struggled with motion inputs, especially Z inputs.
I personally say if you dont struggle with motion inputs on a controller you really dont need one, but if you do I suggested getting a cheap one and seeing how it changes
Saaame.
If all motion inputs were charge/quarter circle/pretzel inputs, I'd happily use controller, but Z-inputs on a controller are hell.
Z inputs is just forward quarter circle forward for controllers.
The thing that's irritating is how close the inputs are, and how tiring playing with your thumbs only.
Was a dpad player before switching to fight stick a year ago.
You can easily do 65236 compared to a dpad where you actually have to life your finger to go back to neutral x.x
@@johnpetersantiago2630 That depends on the game. Some are stricter than others. 63236 can be a failed input depending on game. And with how much speed matters for an average DP, allowing the full reset to neutral was quite cumbersome for me, *especially* for air DPs. I specifically remember trying to find a way to do Baiken's "Youzansen" reliably and I just couldn't get it.
And as you mentioned, characters with both a QCF and a Z-input on the same button were also a pain.
This is the main reason I got a stick, and now I can never go back
Nope, can not use a D-Pad or the Left Stick on a controller to save my life in a fighting game. Just recently got into the genre hardcore the last 3 months or so... I have to use a fight stick to pull of the moves more consistently.
I like them because I never got to experience arcades as a kid, and there was something I found very mystifying about sticks when watching people play online and at conventions. It's like being able to finally experience this big historical piece of gaming.
Jeez. You make me feel old.
I'm born in 95 and I feel the same way! Arcades were around, but none of my friends really played games, so it was always the racing games or light-gun ones when we were in one. and I also just thinks it's more fun playing games the genres hardware
"It's like playing baseball your whole life and suddenly you have to go play soccer. Well Shit!" The 'well shit' killed me
I think Tekken's "korean backdash" might be an exception to this. It looks easier to execute this on a arcade stick than on a dpad.
Even more with a korean stick
Idk backdashing on a pad feels just fine to me, I never use sticks though so idk if it's easier or not but just the fact that sticks require so much more motion makes it seem like it would be at least more strenuous if not not also more difficult
Theres a thumb rolling method that makes it really easy
not really, much easier on hitbox/keyboard for sure
@@stinkybinth9672 Easy to perfom, but not very comfortable to do in the long run. The advantage of using a Korean stick is with a slight movement of the fingers, you perform the command and after releasing the sitck to return to neutral it gives you the possibility to cancel the backdash without the effort of registering another input. Core-A Gaming explains it better in one of their videos talking about KBD.
perfectly said, i've always been a pad user and i manage to do well that way is all the fighting games i play. i do have a stick but like max said it's starting from scratch learning wise. every uses what they are comfortable with these days.
6:00 - 7:24 This is why Max is the face of the fighting game community. Truly a legend.
You're part of the problem
@@JCOdrjones How so?
@@JCOdrjones What exactly is the "problem" that ur talking about? 😐
@@SilentAndy not being old is apparently a problem
@@noahleach7690 I think he's saying the opposite either way that's stupid I'm watching this wishing I grew up with arcades those creeky boned fucked don't know how good they got it
It's funny that he has to remake this video every couple years
It's perennial content really.
The answer will always be the same but there will always be new ears to hear it.
Wonder what its like to be new to the genre, ask about whether learning arcade stick is worth it, only to find out the best controller for FGs is the one that feels most like the keyboards they already use daily?
@@Raiden3651 About as weird as it is for those that came form the era to hear it as well. Least for me.
I started playing on the SNES with controllers originally. Loving Street Fighter I played in the arcade when I could and was somewhat competent with a Fight Stick. I have started to get back into it now after 20 plus years. Currently experimenting with some 6 button controllers (Hori Pads, etc), and a Fight Stick I picked up. Definitely don't have the same control using the joystick that I used to have and I am much more proficient with a D-Pad. But need to put in some more hours on the arcade stick. While I have continued to use a D-Pad over the years for other games, you are right in saying that learning the Fight Stick is like starting again. At least it is for me after so many years.
If you can, playing on an actual keyboard is a great option. It is principally the same as a hitbox but nowhere near the cost. I've been using it to play Strive and it is so much easier
agreed, Keyboards feel really good for fighting games.
I’m new to fighting games, but WASD feels better for movement than a D-pad or joystick for me.
🤢
@@KhariruOficial suit yourself, but at the end of the day, it’s just about what feels the most comfortable for the individual and what gets the most consistent results. If someone decided to play using a guitar hero controller because it felt better for them, who am I to argue with them?
@@pinkestlemonade1916 I personally prefer to assign up to the space bar instead of wasd so it works more like a hitbox this means if I want to me able to put my fingers on every button instead of a wierd claw grip which I find uncomfortable you can have your fingers more easily on every key. Also if you want to do certain inputs like a vertical charge it's not as much movement required so it's easier. It's down to personal choice so you do you.
Surprised the customization aspect wasn't brought up. Its a great hobby outside of actually playing the game. Being able to choose what stick, what buttons, what art, etc. is a really, REALLY fun part of sticks.
That being said, of course that has nothing to do with actually playing the game (as far as the pad vs stick question), but it is another aspect.
Building your fightstick is nice. My fiancee and I have somewhat unordinary builds. She has a Sega 2P layout with 24mm buttons along with an octagon gate for her Sanwa. I use the IL Eurostick and I love it. I will admit I did choose the Eurostick for the dumb reason that I wanted something unique.
Yeah. Customizing your own arcade stick is a really fun project. I'm just about to finish my first one, actually. Even though the entire thing was hell (My initial stick was stolen off my front porch, I learned I ordered the wrong size buttons, not finding the right size buttons in the right color, and learning how to wire everything as I was putting the damn thing together), I still had a lot of fun.
I'm also thinking of the design of my next stick already, but I'm probably not going to do that for a while, though.
@@Thunder8277 Porch pirates suck and sometimes pickup locations aren't an option for everyone so I understand. I have a UPS pickup in my town but a FedEx pickup is in a different city. I wish I was able to offer a solution but it seems you have it figured out.
@@nerdyneedsalife8315 That event was what made me buy a RING doorbell/ camera. Thankfully, the seller was cool and let me buy a new one at a discounted price.
and then there is the xbox elite pad
For me I always remember Tekken's combination of using square + circle combos. With the controller you have to take your hands out. That for me was enough to change to an arcade stick
You can hotkey those to the shoulder buttons.
@@ShineSpark88 yeah but at that point it feels like cheating in a way even though it really isn't
@@WASTHATABULLET Nah. With that sort of mentality, you're simply denying yourself a useful tool out of misguided and vain pride.
Preach. I am so sick of elitism.
@@LOOMING_WRAITH_OF_BAD_OMEN Ah yes, the lesson I had to bash forcefully into my brain awhile back, god i made my life miserable with that mentality.
Been loving Max stepping up as a figurehead and a point of reference to fighting game noobies
It's been like that for years and I do agree
One thing I'll say about sticks is that they handle charge and mash inputs a lot better than a controller. Being able to piano for characters like Honda or Gen is fantastic, and being able to use the rest of your hand while charging for Zero's buster cancel combos or Shizumaru's tap is incredible.
I think there is a genuine advantage to the stick if you play a six-button fighting game. A controller will absolutely work, but there are just a ton of tiny advantages to using a stick. Subjectively, hitting big buttons is also just super fun.
I remember working in an arcade in the early 2000s and on some fighting game cabinets, the techs were fixing them every other week because they saw so much action. Great days.
I started getting ganglion cysts actually using a pad jumping back into FGs.
An arcade stick helped me alot in that regard. Made my inputs cleaner. But thats purely preference
Oooh so that was the reason, I'm a fan of FGs and Tetris, during last summer I played a lot of those games and one of my wrists started hurting like hell, I stopped playing for like a month and that fixed it, I thought it was like a muscle strain but ganglion cysts makes more sense
@@estebanacostaolivera3232 yeah they are like bumps that surface between your wrists and your hand. Id recommend icing after a long time playing. It helps me relieve the strain left on the tendons
it was DMC3 swordmaster mashing for me. no doctor ever mentioned cysts- only "tendonitis" which is just a catch-all for "stop doing what you're doing" syndrome. R.I.C.E.
If you ask me, it 100% boils down to this: Do you want an arcade stick? Does it look appealing? Have you played with one in an arcade and really liked it? If the answer to any of these questions is yes, then buy an arcade stick.
For me, I just cannot get my thumb to move fast enough to consistently do a lot of inputs, so that’s part of my reasoning to start using a stick instead
There's a learning curve to any controller honestly. I used a fightstick when I first started playing fighting games cause I thought they looked cool. But I got a bunch of wrist injuries on my left arm because of work and had to switch to a hitbox layout. And it really did take a while for me to relearn how to play the games I enjoyed but eventually it got better. The controller doesn't matter as much as how much you enjoy the game and how much work you're willing to put in to get better at those games
This guys job is beach volleyball cameraman 😏
Still many people get injuries in fingers because of controller, just don't stress yourself
I feel like getting an arcade stick could help with Dpad misinputs, it's so fucking difficult to do half circle supers in Guilty Gear on dpad
thats my problem, some of the half circles or movements for some characters i find it hard to do on one side. on the right side i find some moves hard to do
I'm using keyboard right now. It hurts my wrists, but by crap it's vastly more consistent.
One thing to note árcade stick are more durable than the typical console joystick. So if your joystick is broken thats gonna create a misinput.
do them on analogue stick then
@@Xeaku analogies stick is worse.
Couple things:
*Your thumbs are slower than your other 4 fingers. And you have a lot more access to all of the face buttons.
The stick can make it much easier to make particular directional movements rather than miss/hit things by accident, thanks to more movement.
I actually JUST got a stick for the first time, having very little experience with arcade sticks (even in arcades) and I'm feeling the advantages already. I don't dispute that champs use controllers, but I still maintain that the advantages of a stick can't be denied.
First your first point, do you, have four fingers on each button? For SF I guess that makes sense, but I play Tekken and it'd be 2 fingers, but they'd have to travel further, so it's just as fast as my thumb
I play with a D-pad...I was the sheltered kid that learned to play on console, not arcades, so, never had a stick growing up. Still on pad to this day and I'm cool with it.
Same bruh but I have arcade stick experience and realize I need directional buttons and can’t use sticks 😂
Does your thumb not hurt? I played pad for a bit and that shit was painful
@@Jhitch19 sure, after a while, but you get used to it.
@@Jhitch19 ive been playing xbox 360 and one games for like 10-12 years, and using just my thumb on the d-pad to swipe a QCF movement is very quick for me
as for people who use the stick on a controller for fighting games, i dont know how they are fine with that.
@@crazako I agree that it was very fast for inputs, but using my controller (Xbox Series controller) the D-pad was almost sharp and my thumb started to hurt like hell. Maybe it's different for other Xbox controllers (have a 360 controller but don't think I ever really used the d-pad)
I got into fighting games with DBFZ after 20 years of PC gaming, and after fooling around with a few pads (none of which felt natural since I wasn't much of console gamer), I tried hitbox and instantly loved it. Very happy to have started out with it.
Anyone can be great on any piece of hardware.
The psychological thrill of “I have a cool, special, fancy controller just for playing this type of game,” though, is something that needs to be stated. Theoretically, you could be better at playing guitar hero with a keyboard, but it’s *guitar hero*. The guitar is part of the fun.
My left wrist gets real fatigue when using controller for tekken. Just got myself an arcade stick, no more pain though it will take a while to adjust
You missed one other thing, when I take my qanba dragon out, people get intimidated.
Max molesting his arcade stick had me dead
I used to get crazy calluses and blisters as a kid playing on gamepads, never had any issues with sticks.
Also this. I had a friend come over and we played fighting games one night, like, a decade ago now, and trying to be good at Street Fighter on a Playstation controller tore a hole in my left thumb. Wished I had an arcade stick back then, and now I have one and I love it.
As an older gamer (early 40s), who's been playing fighting games since the original street fighter (not sf2), my left thumb is in bad shape. The dpad kills me to the point I've had to stop playing fighting games entirely (f). Buying a fighting stick is my only hope. So that's a solid reason to get one. I need my killer instinct.
My fiancee and I are in our 20s and we agree with your notion. The D-pad, especially for PS4, is a killer on the left thumb. Her thumb was slightly bruised and purple after an hour of playing. That is why we play with arcade sticks now for fighting games.
Does anyone else want another episode of Fighting games are food or is it just me?
yes
Please
Not gonna lie, but that's probably one of my favorite videos of his. Just so weird, but after watching it, makes so much sense.
So yes please, Fighting Game Food Real Talk Round 2.
yes
I just bought my first stick. I bought it because the idea of challenging myself to learn it sounds incredibly fun.
Same. Seems like the most fun way to play.
@@BobbyJenko its definitely been a ton of fun, but I'm still struggling with dashes and drive rush especially. I just know that input is easier for me on pad still lol
@@pregnanttomato9576 for sure. There is going to be an update to make drive rush cancels a macro. So no more double forward inputs, just connect a move then press parry for an auto drive rush!
3:58 90 year old max trying to teach his grandkids how to play 3rd strike.
Also its nice for shmup, metal slug, puzzle bubble and a big nostalgia bomb. Arcades are wonderlands to us kids back then. Arcade stick is our most accessible connection from that.
a stick helped me a lot when it comes to tekken, not much when it comes to other games like king of fighters but it feels nicer on my hand and doesn't feel sore after playing for a long time compared to controller
i recently bought an arcade stick about 3 months ago and im in love with it. do you need it? no. but if possible i HIGHLY recommend talking to a friend that has one or going to an arcade with these and trying them out because they are so much more fun to play with, at least in my opinion, and by trying it out you can see if youd like to get one or not.
I love when max talks about his time in arcades
I've always been a pad player. I did spend sometime in arcades, but not enough to matter. I've been on the fence and I think this video really pulled me towards giving a Stick a try. I've always been about appreciating the nostalgia of games and embracing what makes a game amazing regardless of its age (thinks like old school developer methods or mechanics that were lost to time). So even though I have literally zero problem with a pad nor do I care what one plays... I kinda feel like learning stick allows me to shotgun myself to the way games were appreciated back in their day. Even if I still enjoy pad and mostly played on pad.. I might try a stick. Now it's a matter of finding a solid one.
Use what makes YOU happy. Fuck what anyone else says. At the end of the day, as long as you arent cheating, ANY hardware will take time and dedication. So it's best to use what you like the most.
What about in shooters?
Mouse vs controller feels like cheating to me, especially if it's on console.
@@BIGBOY-cu4de almost everyone agrees that keyboard and mouse is great for most shooters, but most people don't get a shit if you play on controller.
After learning about Initial-T's steering wheel as well as using the gear shifter to win a GGXrd tournament against Dogura, I am convinced that sticks don't give an advantage.
80% fundamentals 10% strategy 10% reads.
WHAT
@@bennyp915 Yea dood, Core-A Gaming has a video on Initial T, I think he used the gear shifter for dust.
Wait...I've heard of things like initial D arcade stage but never heard of initial t can you explain it to me?
@@anhquanphan3089 There is a Guilty Gear player called Intial-T, he calls himself that because he uses a steering wheel to play the game. He used his steering wheel to win a tournament against some of Japan's most well known GG pros.
Good points. I switched to fight stick and I am enjoying it! I am experiencing way less problems with tendonitis now. I already draw a lot so gripping a controller and doing those fine motor movements were wearing my forearms out. Fight stick is more comfortable and fun so far. It's also better in my opinion for tapping out combos, like gattling combos in anime fighters. You are right it has taken some getting used to but not as much as I expected. Still progressing but I enjoy it a ton.
I Ordered a Qanba Dragon yesterday just to feel like a kid again.
GREAT stick
@@tonymack YUP been using it for some time now, super good
i heard great things about it
It’s weird. Street Fighter 2 was my jam in the arcade when I was a teenager. Played MK2 a lot on Genesis, it was the reason I got a 6 button genesis controller. Now that I’m getting back into fighting games I ordered an arcade stick and it feels natural to me, even if I don’t know the mechanics of modern fighters.
I’m just tryna get into fighting games I just don’t know what fighting games to choose that are begginer friendly I tried street fighter can guess how that went
@@nero3948 street fighter 4 is pretty easy to get into and easy to learn
@@D4YT0N4 I tried it I thought it was hard
@@D4YT0N4 street fighter 4 has 1 frame inputs and you need to have solid fundamentals, neutral and footsies.
its harder than many other fighting games like MK11, GGS, DBFZ, IJ, SamSho.
you need to have a lot of match up knowledge and react more than predict as in other games.
I wouldnt recommend anyone playing SF4 and even the arguably easier SFV to learn fighting games.
@@lightup6751 I'm a noob when it comes to fighting games, but I learned a lot from sf4 and I totally love it
As a person of exceptional size, the inputs on a controller tend to make my thumbs accidentally hit an analogue stick when I'm using a Dpad.
As such, I spent a little money on a budget entry stick once I got somewhat serious about strive, and I don't regret it at all.
SonicFox plays with a pad. You DON’T need a stick.
Punk does too
Pads are great. Especially if you know how to mod the dpad to reduce thumb movement but keep accuracy.
Actually for fighting games, the duelshock and duelsense pads are great. There are no other controllers with good enough input latency for fighting games
@@olivur_1459 Smug, Knuckledu, Dekillsage, Luffy... And many more...
@@inkwyvern5171 watchu mean “mod the dpad”
Well he also wears a fursuit which gives him a tactical advantage of not wanting to sit next to him.
Kinda funny you bring us callouses with old arcade sticks cause I started playing on stick when I started getting blisters on my left thumb playing +R on pad. I rubbed my thumb across the dpad so much and so fast it got so bad. So I looked into sticks. Then I got into the idea of being able to accessorize it and was hooked.
Same here but with Xrd. I could 632146 extremely consistently as a new player, but the blister made me wonder if it was worth it.
Exactly, same here. I got so annoyed of the thumb issues that I got a stick, and I haven't looked back now. I hate playing fighting games without one lol.
you can power through it and grow callouses as well on dpad, sucks at first but then its not an issue. I am jealous of sticks customization options though
I've played arcade and console games since I can remember (and I am very old) and me or my friends never suffered any hand injuries with a stick, but I had more than one blister/callus from playing with a gamepad, so I would say console players' hands tend to suffer more than an arcade stick user's.
I did get some shit on my collarbone while playing arcade MK1, but that's another story, I just had very bad posture and habits lol.
I would like to add as I currently now own and am learning an arcade stick, it is helping me build better habits for fighting games, for example doing manual supers in versus games, usually I’d map supers to the right shoulders so all I need to do is the input and press a button, now, hitting the supers and other multi button commands the way they were intended? Feels amazing ^^
Playing on pad made me overly rely on macros (triple punches/kicks in one button for EXs, RCs in Guilty Gear, wierd Neo Geo button combos, etc.). Going on keyboard has helped in removing that reliance for me, and I can't wait to get a stick and reliably pull off a half-circle again.
@@AceTrainerX3 yeah even now when I do play on pad to learn a new character or team Before I practice what I learn on stick, I’m not using those manual macros for supers or special moves, just the face buttons and my dedicated assist buttons bound to r1 and R2 or R and ZR on switch ^^
Very glad you made this video. Getting more serious about fighting games, and having grown up with consoles, I was curious if I needed to learn stick.
I’m new to fighting games and never really had much experience with arcade sticks but I decided to get one and I have definitely already passed my skill level with a controller in a week and I’ve been having a blast playing with it.
Take it from someone who switched from pad to stick less than three months ago: It's worth it. It just... Feels better, imo. Having a clicky stick, and responsive buttons.
Man I love my clicking sticky and responsive Sanwa buttons on my Daija, I'm never going back to dpad + no more pain my left arm's thumb from the analog.
I switched from pad to stick for about 3 weeks now and I got to say it feels great I imagine it will feel better than pad in 3 months for me.
It was the reverse for me. The arcades didnt encourage me to try stick, the stick encouraged me to go to arcades. Got into a lot of classic games just too have more things too do with stick. Then I started busting it out for a lot of modern non fighting games just too see if it works and a lot of times it does.
I think there's a alot more to sticks then it just being tied to arcades nostalgia. Something about the tactility of switches and the actuation of the lever gives an assurance of input you cant find anywhere else.
Here's my story: Due to my crazy academic life, I managed to get into fighting games seriously right after I graduated from college, which was a couple of months ago.
- I tried using my gamepad but the d-pad broke (right button doesn't register sometimes) and the analog stick is damn hectic for executing motion inputs.
- Then I tried using a keyboard but the layout is so cluttered that caused unintentionally missing inputs. Since I'm on a laptop, I also thought it would be a bad idea to use the keyboard for fighting games because it would damage the system in the long term.
- My keyboard failure automatically rules out the "hitbox" option so as a last resort, I'll try an arcade stick when I'll come back to fighting games.
Why did I explain all of those? Because my reason to prefer arcade sticks is solely "running out of options". I'm not too experienced in FGs in general, so it won't be any different than starting from zero, developing muscle memory shouldn't be a problem.
"you've been using this thing for so many years....
*holds up controller*
*sweats in PC gamer using a keyboard.*
As someone relatively new to a stick, I can say the feedback and arm action needed make it a lot more fun to me over a controller. However it is all just preference, and I think both are completely fine.
I agree. There's a greater sense of connection to what you're doing on screen when your whole body is involved in making it happen.
I personally find motion inputs more intuitive on arcade sticks, which is why i prefer stick to pad. I always felt like on pad i misinput things like half circles since my thumbs are kinda big. I dont have that problem as often on stick
I play guilty gear on a controller, and my favorite thing Arc Sys did with their game is giving binds to multi-button inputs like Roman cancels and perfect defense, it makes the controller a life saver
I think there's something to be said about hand health too. Stick does use a lot of energy but i can play for much longer on one without being in pain
My muscle memory makes it impossible to just switch to a fight stick after decades of using a d-pad and I grew up in arcades but I definitely played more console games due to arcades dropping off in popularity. Doesn't mean they're not fun, love playing Metal Slug on a stick
Noone can just "switch" to a fight stick. You have to put your six months of work in.
@@mydemon for casual games or different genres it's fine but a fighting game hell no, I don't have time for that shit anymore to dedicate months to get used to it
Exact same thing with me. Started off in the arcades for years. Haven't touched a joystick (heh heh) in almost a decade now.
@@mydemon six months? It takes usually two months to adapt to it. Yeah it's awkward at first, but if you map the buttons yourself then as long as you understand the game you're playing it'll come quicker.
Unless you're a slow learner of course. Which is totally valid btw, everyone learns at a different pace.
Man, this is such a hilarious and spot on take regarding the transition from a controller to a stick. 😂
Thank you, I'm just getting into Guilty Gear Strive, and haven't really played fighters before, so I was looking at fight sticks. I think I'll stick to a controller because I definitely have muscle memory there.
You are the same as me. Guilty Gear Strive is the first fighting game I have started playing in 15 years. And I feel I'll stick to the controller too :)
Here's to happy learning to the two of us ✌️
@@KitsGravity One thing he didn't mention here is hand fatigue. For me, using just my thumb to press the directions and buttons gets very tiring and crampy in a long session on a pad. When you have it spread across all your fingers, and your whole arm and wrist, it may take a larger movement, but I find it's less stressful overall compared to the beating my thumbs get. Thing is, maybe that's just me!
What really helped me learn how to use Stick was Tetris: The Grandmaster (technically it was TAP2, but i digress). After a few weeks of regular practice, I was relatively confortable with using stick quickly in every other game.
Oh man, I remember in vanilla SF4 when I got my stick, I sucked so hard for about a week. Then I started to get used to it, and my playing got so much better. End of the day, it is all about what you are most comfortable using.
On the toic of us making out hands bleed, I vividly remember that, back when the words "Test your might" meant, your hands will bleed for this.
Using arcade strick vastly improved my execution and accuracy with inputs. That said I'm doing a magneto infinite on ps vita right now.
Magneto? Which game? Mvc? Don’t think it’s available
What is a ps vita?
@@runoxb handheld console
@@runoxb were you born after 2011?
@@shaiuken UMVC3 had a psvita port
I've been trying to learn fighting games for the first time with cammy on sfv. Was struggling with some motion inputs, especially dive kicks. Got an arcade stick, never looking back. I'm not connected to legacy at all, but it definitely feels so natural to play fighting games this way.
Cammy player here, yeah quarter circles are much better with stick in my opinion. Same as you, did not grow up with arcades, just did not playing with pad.
"Do I touch it like it's a sexual object?" is still one of my favorite Max quotes
So that's why it sounds like Lord Knight is trying to destroy his stick whenever he presses a button. It's a habit carried over from having to deal with old arcade machines. The more ya know
I can definitely vouch for the muscle memory factor. Back in the SNES era, OG Killer Instinct was one of the titles I spent the most time on. I wasn't exactly super-good (I have a physical disability that inhibits my fine motor control), but I could consistently execute most moves and do some passable combos on any given character. But ONLY on a pad; when I tried using a stick at an actual arcade cabinet nothing worked right. Street Fighter 2 and its variants gave me the same problem. Mortal Kombat less so as its controls were hella janky no matter what you were playing on.
I've listened to people for years claim that sticks were better, and it's incredibly frustrating to try and get the point through a stick fanatic's head that sticks don't work for everyone. To the point that I basically gave up on fighting games until a PS3 landed in my hands through some odd "buy this, get that free" deal.
The thumb on my left hand was hurting so bad in about an hour of playing SFV on a Xbox Controller, so I got a Nacon Daija Arcade Stick and I had to learn everything from the start, but for me it was worth it, my wrists and arms still get a bit tired from the stick, but it's not even nearly as bad as how my thumb was hurting from the stupid Xbox analog. You can pretty much get a decent arcade stick for just a little over the price of a console controller, but in the end its a personal preference.
Yeah almost exactly the same with me, but my issue was with the d-pad. My thumb gets super tired and raw skin from sliding it around on the d-pad. With the stick I can at least play until I'm bored, not because my thumb hurts too much.
Okay, so I'm a casual fan, but I grew up in arcades. Most of my fighting game experience came from my high school days stopping by the old pinball joint on the way home, and checking out SFIV, TvC, and a bunch of anime fighters. Nowadays, when I play fighting games on pad, I tend to take a weird grip that kinda simulates a stick. It looks and feels pretty silly, but the legacy stays with me, even without buying a stick.
i bought a stick for guilty gear strive to learn how to play fighting games, i can input the commands much easier on stick. It feels more accurate to me, sometimes trying to do certain combos don't come off well on pad because i can't feel the directional inputs that well which causes me to miss the inputs. It was hard to get used to but i'm loving stick so far. The clicking feels satisfying also
Yeah modern fight sticks are also alot comfortable compared to arcade versions
Disagree, whatever works for you though.
What stick do u have?
I think it depends on the person, I prefer the arcade stick because I can rest my right hand on 4 buttons at once. it's not that I can't use the controllers face buttons but hitting 4 at once can be challenging and controller layouts can be confusing. I can't play blazblue on a controller. I mean, I can, but it'll be limited to button mashing since I get confused about the buttons. and since some combinations are hard to reach, you can map A+B to L or A+C to R, but that gives me more buttons and only makes it more confusing. whilst on an arcade stick I have access to 4 of them and I can go "oh, this does that, this does that, what does this combination do?" and since my hand can stay in a fixed position rather than skipping over the face buttons, I remember moves easier since in my mind they're assigned to a finger, not a position on a controller.
Been playing PC games almost exclusively most of my life and just started playing fighting games for the first time with Strive. After trying controller at first and finding no success I've actually been having a way better time on keyboard (at least once I moved the right hand keys over to the number pad instead of having my hands squished together on the letters). Really goes to what you said about being comfortable with the button layouts being the most important thing.
I use them since if a part breaks, I dot. Have to replace the whole thing
had a a cross up just sitting around collecting dust and started using it after playing with hitbox for a while, I'm really enjoying the stick especially for ewgf
The fight stick has been a huge help for doing precision inputs for my case. Controller joy sticks and D pad give me mis-inputs frequently. The stick feels much easier to control it's exact directions.