I have a Mixbox and a Haute42 T13. I vastly prefer the T13 due to the lightweight and portability factor over the mixbox, despite the mixbox being more expensive and premium, it just is just way too heavy and too cumbersome to use for long periods of time when seated on my lap.
Another thing to note for those interested in the Dualsense Edge is that for players like Nuckledu who uses the analog stick on their Dualsense Edge instead of the d-pad, they probably installed a hall-effect or TMR stick replacement module so that the sticks are much more resistant to drifting. The Dualsense Edge is highly customizable, which is probably the biggest reason for its borderline criminal high price, lol...
I swear pad players have some crazy superhuman thumbs. I tried using pad when I started playing fighting games and my thumbs were always in pain after less than an hour and I would have to stop playing. The ergonomics or Stick and Leverless are so much more comfortable for me, even if pad may be better in certain situations like you said.
@@Jay-mx5ky No it isn't. The stress on your thumb's IP joint is the problem with 99% of people. If you have calluses from using pad you are exerting way to much pressure.
I have a Haute42 R16 mainly for Tekken 8 and SF6 and i love it, i wanted something affordable as my first leverless controller and i highly recommend it.
+1 for the Haute T16. I switched from Hitbox to a stock T16 half a year ago and it's just so much better (and 200€ cheaper). The buttons feel nicer and I like that there is space for my wrists. I have DI on the left hand side next to the jump button and my boomer reactions improved massively.
My only issue with the T16 rn is like sf6 specific in that way that I can't seem to find a solution to bind every shortcut that's used in training mode to whichever button I want.. Aside from this it's a 10/10, with new switches I like it more than sanwa buttons. I bet my specific issue can be solved with some web config tinkering though.
Yeah, so far I haven't found a proper config that retains my mapped buttons while also allowing access to the training mode shortcuts. I just use the keyboard for them, but it's still annoying.
@@Corran123why didn't I think of doing that lmao. Thanks! That's a good temporary solution. Wish SF6 would let us bind the top right buttons to the shortcuts.
I had never 'seriously' played any fighting games until SF6, and when I started, I ground Marisa to plat 1 on an xbox one controller with that clicky Dpad. It was really good I found. Responsive, fun, 'normal' to me, a lifetime console/M+k video game player. However, at plat 1, my entire left arm started to hurt up to my shoulder. I wasn't no life-ing or anything, I work a normal 9-5, go out with friends/dates with fiancée, work out 2-4x per week, etc, all the normal shit one does, but the pain from the grind was starting affect all of that. I switched to a split layout leverless from mavercade and whether its the ergo or fact that I use my thumb way less for those quarter circles, the pain went away. Now I play way more SF6 and never feel any discomfort. Info in case it's useful: I'm 33 Started fighting games more 'seriously' at 32 I play maybe 1-3 hours of SF 6 most days I'm pretty averagely healthy (other than the sudden gamer arm flare from grinding ranked on xbox pad I finally got Ryu to plat 3, and continue to focus on improving
Have you looked into forearm/hand stretches and exercises? my hands/wrists started hurting as early as high school from dexterous hobbies. There's a lot of nerves, muscles, etc. in the hands and even if you're generally healthy, repeatedly straining the same few parts of your hands for even an hour or two without break will definitely build issues.
I know this is common advice, but stretches don't solve the problem; they just ease the symptoms. Using less force and a hand position that doesn't require continuous bending is really the fix. It's similar to playing an instrument. Good technique should be effortless and not require *any* straining, let alone repetitive straining. With good technique, you can play almost indefinitely. The standard Hitbox layout is pretty bad for hand health due to one major flaw: the direction buttons and attack buttons are way too close together. I see people angling their wrists far too much (ulnar deviation). Unless you're tiny, it's almost impossible not to (you can put the controller ridiculously far in front of you to help straighten, but that's not great for the shoulders and upper arms). Mavercade are one of the only leverless manufacturers who have pretty much got this right (and Mixbox style too). The hands being further apart means your fingers, wrist and forearm can all point exactly in the same direction, in a straight line. No bending, no straining.
imho your a badass player for getting that high with a xbox controller I have never found those good for fighting games. You were playing with a handicap my dude
I agree that having your fingers pre-positioned on reaction buttons is an advantage, but you can make a leverless controller with a layout that never requires you to move your fingers from one button to another. I'm using one right now that I made myself for this exact reason.
While true, it's kind of a moot point for most people because while building your own leverless is relatively easy, it is not exactly easy to create a custom chassis.
started on pad , tried out leverless which was WAY betetr than pad but i ended up with a Obsidian 2 in the end. SF 6 high Master rank . For some reason stick feels the MOST natural for me in SF
18:52 I would like to know what switches and buttons you would use to replace the ones that come from the factory, if can be with international shipping
I literally sat through this entire video because I think my PS5 controller is probably the best choice to keep, but still, my left thumb hurts after some time, while I never had that problem with keyboard. Also, this helps while getting a leverless controller.
W video. I use a Haute G16 with some mods, Punkworkshop switches/keycaps and a 3D printed base to make it a little bit bigger so it fits on my lap. I think controllers can be a crazy rabbit hole to get into because many of them feel vastly different from one another, however there isn't a huge increase in skill from using one over another. But it's fun to see how different ones compare
That crossup is a cheatbox. You can map left and right on the top three buttons and you can get easy electrics by doing F*d and hit 2 and the corresponding direction button with the same hand. Voila, flawless electric. Also makes Korean backdashing trivial
Note that the haute controller has many different versions, with the s16 being a smaller controller with the same amount of buttons as the t16. They have a lot of sizes, with some being smaller than the t16 but bigger than the raidenbox
Also been using stick for a similar amount of time, I switched to leverless about 6 months ago. Took about 2 weeks to feel completely comfortable. Just got to perservere, it initially felt completely alien as I never play on pad or keyboard either, but can definitely say my game has improved moving to leverless, responses are quicker and more concise. Believe 720's can be tricky though, but I don't play Gief.
Here I've been playing in the arcades with sticks since 1995. No matter what, pad is better. And leverless is the best, no doubts. It took me a month to get acustomed to the new inputs, but it was 100% worth it.
@@MrRyuken555 stick is 100% better for grappler inputs lol, theres a few things it can be better for my main reason i use it is Mishima wavedash consistency, with leverless you get more EWGF consistency with stick you get more wavedash consistency, its trade offs
@@rydakule im kinda the same? just too broke to buy a leverless and too stubborn to start learning it with my keyboard lol, i did used to play keyboard quite a bit and the input consistency is unmatched but my movements and combos always felt off, like i had to think about what to press before i pressed it
I recently picked up a Razer Wolverine V3 Pro on Black Friday after my PS4 controller finally gave up the ghost. There are probably better options if you're only looking for FG performance, but it looks and feels so premium that it's just a joy to use. I wasn't sure at first if I would like the clicky D-pad, but it actually might be my favorite feature. It feels like a Sanwa stick for your thumb. Circular inputs feel amazing, the tactility gives me so much feedback.
Sticks destroyed my hands, wrists and elbows for years without giving me anything in exchange. Pad fixed that instantly, except for my thumb constantly in pain... but at least the inputs worked when I wanted. Then I bought my leverless and everything has been much, much better. I highly reccomend the Haute42 ones: they are cheap, sturdy and precise, you can choose the really small S model or the T model that gives more space for your palms. You can change most of the parts if you want, but honestly, you have to be extremelly sensitive to really notice a difference with other brands that are over a hundred dollars more expensive. Honestly, one of my best investments ever.
you uploaded this video at the perfect time as i have just started my search for my first fighting game controller. my left thumb/wrist is fatigued w the ps5 controller
i got a haute42 M16 and its in my opinion the best one. it has good weight, not to small, not to big. plenty of extra buttons, good button size and hot swappable. main downs, needs converter for ps5 & a bit loud
My fingers get tired fast on leverless so I cant play long despite cleaner execution. On stick the movement feels great and my inputs are sloppier in comparison and theres more risk of wrist injury but at least I dont get as tired. I dont use pad for fighting games, I want to keep my thumbs in good shape
Fightbox makes an excellent quality leverless in multiple layouts with Sanwa and brooks components and extremely affordable, I have 2 both in WASD movement layout. Been playing PC games for 25 years. Not learning that stupid thumb up button
How do you feel about six face button controllers like the old Mad Catz fightpads or the Hori Fighting Commander 4? I've been using the Hori FC4 as my main controller for SF6 since launch.
Second this! I made the switch to the Fighting Commander Octa (which has a stick with directional edges, think GameCube controllers) and it feels like the perfect middle ground between Gamepad and Arcade Stick. Six button fighters like SF6, KI and Skullgirls are amazing with the additional two face buttons. My go-to controller since (until I can afford a Victrix ProCon for similar reasons).
Pad destroyed my thumb with chun li. I had to quit fighting games until i bought my friend's hitbox off of him just because my thumb would hurt so intensely. Hitbox has been perfect since, including all the SoCD shortcuts and everything; however it is much more bulky and loud.
I've got the Haute42 T16 and to me the buttons don't feel mushy, but I won't rule out that maybe different switches would improve the feel. Maybe I'll try out some others down the line, but right out of the box it felt great.
I set the number pad on my keyboard to the attack moves. That way my arms aren't contorted to towards each other. I should upgrade to mechanical though I think. The more I play, the more input lag I notice sometimes with keys wearing out.
Love my metal haute, custom mechanical leverless controller by Foehammer, and Xbox controller. They feel different, really different --- but they dont change the game. For sure pick whatever feels best for you.
Highly agree with a lot of points in this video, used all 3 and I would rank them 1) Leverless. 2)Stick. 3)Pad. I'll say they all have their advantages and disadvantages. But I think Leverless is the next biggest new thing in the FGC. Specially with Qanba and Hori releasing some new leverless controllers in the near future. Def don't see either controller going away though, bc Pad is easily the most accessible. And sticks are a classic and feel more natural for fighting games imo; I specially noticed this when playing Player 2 Mishima on Tekken with a leverless. Made me currently go in a rabbit hole on picking Leverless and Stick for me to stay with 100% of the time
@hteety my bad ur right, I mean the types of leverless we are getting. Reverting away from using arcade buttons to keyboard switches, full size and low profile switches. Vitrix has a new one that use switches, Hori, and Qanba are going the same route. And so is Hitbox with their teased new leverless releasing
I've focused almost solely on arcade stick for competing since around 2010 and picked up leverless a couple years ago to dabble in, but still prefer stick. I'd like to give pad a try again, but it always feels like the option where my execution is the weakest. I like the Dualsense Edge benefits you showed though like the adjustable triggers and those back buttons. I have a Victrix pad but the adjustable trigger lock on those can undo itself if your finger grazes over that switch. And the pad just feels kind of cheap. I might give the Edge a try sometime.
The only thing I found matters outside of obviously ergonomics which is on the number one spot, is how well built a controller is. I have a very cheap (like 35$ with shipping) stick that sort of locks up on some diagonals so yeah... That said playing on keyboard hurts my wrists while on a stick I can make use of more muscle groups reducing the strain. Obviously on keyboard you're pretty much only using your fingers, which is why I also avoid leverless unfortunately. Also, the selection of controllers good for fighting games here in Europe is pretty poor... at least if you don't live in the UK or Germany. At least we are slowly getting some good ones like Mayflash and Victrix. I hope to get a Mayflash eventually. Edit: Forgot to mention that I used a PS4 pad for a while but they really do break easily. I bought a brand new one a year ago and it's already broken. The down arrow on the D-Pad gets stuck and I need to kind of mush it around for it to work. Probably an issue with the membrane but I don't really know if that's something I can fix myself.
I personally use the Qanba Obsidian for 2D fighters (with an 8-gate I modded inside) and the Hori Fighting Commander Octa for 3D fighters. ...I just need to put more hours into the Octa lmao
Hear me out The best controller is one you can get custom art for. I like my Micro XL with custom art, but you can't deny the surface area of older sticks or leverless like an mpress. Player expression doesn't just reside in the game
I have a Keychron alice-style mechanical keyboard that i use for playing. Its snappy. I don't have super-low actuation switches. I imagine this is what it feels like to play on a leverless. NuPhy just released a gaming keyboard for i think $175 that has magnetic switches for super-low actuation and responsiveness.
i play on leverless but I'm really interested in learning stick because that's what arcades have. it's pretty funny when i hang out with my friends, we can spot some obscure rundown arcade cab, and i can't even flex on them bc i assume stick is gonna feel super weird to me, though admittedly i never tried
If you get a stick try to get an octagonal gate. Sticks usually have a square gate which is awful in my opinion. Gates are the shape which the stick goes through. For example joysticks have a circle gate (not really a gate but I'm sure you get what I mean)
PS4 pad was perfect. I just detransitioned from stick to the Gamesir G7, the new HE edition with tactile dpad and mechanical buttons, and it's probably the best thing since the Ps3-4 pads. The first Xbox style gamepad with a dpad that actually registers diagonals. I was instantly able to do instant air dive kicks and Chunny air legs, which gave me problems with the horrible default Xbox pad. Would recommend it to anyone on pc, and maybe the 8bitdo M30. Cheaper but without mechanical buttons. Amazon Germany has 0 Ps5 pads. No idea what's going on at Sony
I'm old so I used with an arcade stick back when you didn't have buffers and needed frame perfect inputs so I'm use to it but I will say pad is the best just because analog+d-pad is broken.
18:02 No hate, but like this is clearly the W or up arrow key on a keyboard, it's meant to simulate WASD to use in menu-ing because in menus you're not jumping when trying to go up, it's unintuitive to use your thumb to go up as opposed to the up arrow. Additionally, the Haute pad lights up as you press a button. By default this button is mapped to the same button as your left thumb. There's no way you can miss this. I'm doubting you even used the controller at that point. All you have to do to give a good leverless analysis is say "Start off on keyboard, configure your buttons to whatever you want because you have so many options, then find a controller that has a button mapping just like what you use"
You need an upgrade on a d-pad and a cheap option? My advice is the hori fighting commander octa. D-pad is far more consistent and you can adjust directional sensitivities (did wonders for me) useable on most platforms, line 60$. Micro-switch buttons. Drawbacks are that it is not a PS vita d-pad, feels a little cheap but doesn't impact performance, L/R buttons feel bad. Strictly fg pad.
As much as I like PS4 pads, another con that needs to mentioned is that the Mini-USB port is really bad at staying connected to the console compared to USB-C. I don't know how many times it decided to conk out mid-match
I will say, it seems like my ps4 controllers drop the diagonal down input. I had to switch to hori fighting commander and that seemed to work better. I was dropping lots of quartercircle back moves.
The Haute controllers really get better with different switches I'd say. I kinda got used to them so much that I feel like they're just as good as sanwa. Edit: you really are a boomer lol
I got a lot of shit for using leverless but it's so much easier on my hands, and you don't have to spend $200. The Haute42 pads are super cheap and high quality. The only ones I wouldn't recommend are the MayFlash ones, specifically the Flat500 immediately began showing issues with its buttons, I might just be unlucky though.
What about fightpads? Personally, I've been using Hori Fighting Commander OCTA for a while now and I plan on buying a spare in case the current one breaks - I absolutely love it.
Hey Diaphone, will you be trying that new Victrix Stick coming out in a few weeks ? I want a tourney legal stick without a converter but most only have 12 buttons😅
I play on keyboard exclusively. I have ps4 and ps5 controllers but like I cant get the dpad input down consistent for the life of me. Movement also just feels really awkward for me maybe since Ive just played computers more growing up than with controllers. Keyboard works perfectly fine unless maybe you wanna play in tournaments which isnt me
mechanical keyboard is underrated its literally just a hitbox since most people have good keyboards for playing other games (anti ghosting) idk if its tournament legal though
Xbox series D pad > Any DS4 and DS5 dpad. Mainly played grapplers back then when I only played on pad and out of all the Series X dpad was my ALL TIME FAVORITE back then. Hit celestial rank with potemkin using the series X dpad , I went away from playing on Pad but my time on using em, Series X takes it and it lasts me longer than any DS4 controller ever, still rocking the same Series X pad from 2020 (Have not tried the more premium xbox and dualsense controller to have an opinion on that lol)
Might be a hot take, but I hate the ps4-5 dpad, I prefer 1000% the Xbox dpad. I also just like the clickiness of the xbox dpad so it I might be biased lmao.
i agree with you and in my opinion i think the reason a lot of the people say ps pad is good is because to them why bother buying xbox pad when they already have a "good" controller and save $60.
@@theelusivememe1772 especially with DP inputs, i can consistently hit corners and DPs with the xbox controller, but its a 50/50 with the ps4-5 controller haha.
The dpad on the standard Dualsense is much stiffer compared to the one found in Edge. In general the buttons are of a higher quality in Edge. Do you need a Dual Sense Edge over the standard Dualsense? No, not at all. Is it nicer? Yeah it is a bit nicer all around
My own experience with PS controllers PS4 is by far the best controller I ever used beside Xbox 360 controller bought it back in 2015 still works till now no delay input , no joystick drifting and works AOK though the PS5 controller bought it 6 months ok and already have a severe joystick drifting which sucks as hell since there expensive but would love to know if there's new controllers that don't have this problem ( drifting ).
I saw a stickless controller on ebay for 30$ with free shipping, I never had a stickless before hence I am a keyboard player so I dont know if its worth it
Idk what yall be doin to ur ps4 pads but mine last fkn ages ive been using the same pad for like 2 years or so and ive had another one for even longer that still works perfectly fine I personally love the ps4 pad and if there ever comes a day i have to swap off it ima definitely be bringing the d pad with me its to perfect
I have a Mixbox and a Haute42 T13.
I vastly prefer the T13 due to the lightweight and portability factor over the mixbox, despite the mixbox being more expensive and premium, it just is just way too heavy and too cumbersome to use for long periods of time when seated on my lap.
Another thing to note for those interested in the Dualsense Edge is that for players like Nuckledu who uses the analog stick on their Dualsense Edge instead of the d-pad, they probably installed a hall-effect or TMR stick replacement module so that the sticks are much more resistant to drifting. The Dualsense Edge is highly customizable, which is probably the biggest reason for its borderline criminal high price, lol...
I swear pad players have some crazy superhuman thumbs. I tried using pad when I started playing fighting games and my thumbs were always in pain after less than an hour and I would have to stop playing. The ergonomics or Stick and Leverless are so much more comfortable for me, even if pad may be better in certain situations like you said.
Yeah same started with D-Pad and after getting pain in the thumb i instantly switched to Stick and then Hitbox.
Calluses, my friend. It's the same as when you first learn guitar on steel strings.
yeah same i started on PAD ended up with an Stick. and i love my stick ( pause )
@@Jay-mx5ky No it isn't. The stress on your thumb's IP joint is the problem with 99% of people. If you have calluses from using pad you are exerting way to much pressure.
I genuinely preferred using an analog stick over d-pad whenever I used a standard controller. Swapped to stick whenever I play now
That Aris quote is goated.
I have a Haute42 R16 mainly for Tekken 8 and SF6 and i love it, i wanted something affordable as my first leverless controller and i highly recommend it.
Picked this up as my first leverless as well and have been loving it, definitely recommend for the price
I got the G16 and I'm having a blast playing with it on SF6 it is so much easier than stick or pad.
Your final sentiment about playing what’s comfortable for you is golden.
+1 for the Haute T16. I switched from Hitbox to a stock T16 half a year ago and it's just so much better (and 200€ cheaper). The buttons feel nicer and I like that there is space for my wrists. I have DI on the left hand side next to the jump button and my boomer reactions improved massively.
My only issue with the T16 rn is like sf6 specific in that way that I can't seem to find a solution to bind every shortcut that's used in training mode to whichever button I want.. Aside from this it's a 10/10, with new switches I like it more than sanwa buttons.
I bet my specific issue can be solved with some web config tinkering though.
Yeah, so far I haven't found a proper config that retains my mapped buttons while also allowing access to the training mode shortcuts. I just use the keyboard for them, but it's still annoying.
@@Corran123why didn't I think of doing that lmao. Thanks! That's a good temporary solution. Wish SF6 would let us bind the top right buttons to the shortcuts.
I had never 'seriously' played any fighting games until SF6, and when I started, I ground Marisa to plat 1 on an xbox one controller with that clicky Dpad. It was really good I found. Responsive, fun, 'normal' to me, a lifetime console/M+k video game player. However, at plat 1, my entire left arm started to hurt up to my shoulder. I wasn't no life-ing or anything, I work a normal 9-5, go out with friends/dates with fiancée, work out 2-4x per week, etc, all the normal shit one does, but the pain from the grind was starting affect all of that. I switched to a split layout leverless from mavercade and whether its the ergo or fact that I use my thumb way less for those quarter circles, the pain went away. Now I play way more SF6 and never feel any discomfort.
Info in case it's useful:
I'm 33
Started fighting games more 'seriously' at 32
I play maybe 1-3 hours of SF 6 most days
I'm pretty averagely healthy (other than the sudden gamer arm flare from grinding ranked on xbox pad
I finally got Ryu to plat 3, and continue to focus on improving
Have you looked into forearm/hand stretches and exercises? my hands/wrists started hurting as early as high school from dexterous hobbies. There's a lot of nerves, muscles, etc. in the hands and even if you're generally healthy, repeatedly straining the same few parts of your hands for even an hour or two without break will definitely build issues.
I know this is common advice, but stretches don't solve the problem; they just ease the symptoms. Using less force and a hand position that doesn't require continuous bending is really the fix. It's similar to playing an instrument. Good technique should be effortless and not require *any* straining, let alone repetitive straining. With good technique, you can play almost indefinitely.
The standard Hitbox layout is pretty bad for hand health due to one major flaw: the direction buttons and attack buttons are way too close together.
I see people angling their wrists far too much (ulnar deviation). Unless you're tiny, it's almost impossible not to (you can put the controller ridiculously far in front of you to help straighten, but that's not great for the shoulders and upper arms). Mavercade are one of the only leverless manufacturers who have pretty much got this right (and Mixbox style too). The hands being further apart means your fingers, wrist and forearm can all point exactly in the same direction, in a straight line. No bending, no straining.
imho your a badass player for getting that high with a xbox controller I have never found those good for fighting games. You were playing with a handicap my dude
I was in a good mood until i was reminded that Sonny went out of there way to make ps4 controller not work on ps5
#1 reason i switched to PC
(the #2 reason was having to pay to play online)
I agree that having your fingers pre-positioned on reaction buttons is an advantage, but you can make a leverless controller with a layout that never requires you to move your fingers from one button to another. I'm using one right now that I made myself for this exact reason.
While true, it's kind of a moot point for most people because while building your own leverless is relatively easy, it is not exactly easy to create a custom chassis.
I'm not a pro, but I hit Master in SF6 with an 8bitdo Pro 2, which was by far the best, cheapest option and has worked reliably for a year now
The Aris edits are a hilarious idea 😂
started on pad , tried out leverless which was WAY betetr than pad but i ended up with a Obsidian 2 in the end. SF 6 high Master rank .
For some reason stick feels the MOST natural for me in SF
18:52 I would like to know what switches and buttons you would use to replace the ones that come from the factory, if can be with international shipping
Getting a Haute is definitely worth it if you're interested in trying out leverless, dirt cheap and fantastic quality for the price.
also has customizable template and input screen it's the best.
I literally sat through this entire video because I think my PS5 controller is probably the best choice to keep, but still, my left thumb hurts after some time, while I never had that problem with keyboard. Also, this helps while getting a leverless controller.
W video. I use a Haute G16 with some mods, Punkworkshop switches/keycaps and a 3D printed base to make it a little bit bigger so it fits on my lap. I think controllers can be a crazy rabbit hole to get into because many of them feel vastly different from one another, however there isn't a huge increase in skill from using one over another. But it's fun to see how different ones compare
I always use a pad for anime games and team fighters, and a leverless for everything else
diaphone channeling marques brownlee. thanks for the vid :)
I got me leverless controller 3 weeks ago. It felt weird at first, but the socd inputs and flow are amazing now
That crossup is a cheatbox. You can map left and right on the top three buttons and you can get easy electrics by doing F*d and hit 2 and the corresponding direction button with the same hand. Voila, flawless electric. Also makes Korean backdashing trivial
I just bought the Haute42 U16 and its lovely!
The fgc Kind of sleeping on Hall effect mechanical switches for customizable actuation points, I use a Wooting for fps games and its game changing
Note that the haute controller has many different versions, with the s16 being a smaller controller with the same amount of buttons as the t16. They have a lot of sizes, with some being smaller than the t16 but bigger than the raidenbox
Been playing on my Haute42 and made my own stick from Jony Fraze. Making my own personal stick was pricey, but worth it to have a 1 of a kind.
I’ve tried leverless but at this point I have 30 years of muscle memory using a stick having grown up in arcades
Also been using stick for a similar amount of time, I switched to leverless about 6 months ago. Took about 2 weeks to feel completely comfortable. Just got to perservere, it initially felt completely alien as I never play on pad or keyboard either, but can definitely say my game has improved moving to leverless, responses are quicker and more concise. Believe 720's can be tricky though, but I don't play Gief.
Here I've been playing in the arcades with sticks since 1995. No matter what, pad is better. And leverless is the best, no doubts. It took me a month to get acustomed to the new inputs, but it was 100% worth it.
@@MrRyuken555 stick is 100% better for grappler inputs lol, theres a few things it can be better for my main reason i use it is Mishima wavedash consistency, with leverless you get more EWGF consistency with stick you get more wavedash consistency, its trade offs
Same. Whatever advantages leverless has, I’m too gumby to use them to my advantage. I’m a stick user through and through.
@@rydakule im kinda the same? just too broke to buy a leverless and too stubborn to start learning it with my keyboard lol, i did used to play keyboard quite a bit and the input consistency is unmatched but my movements and combos always felt off, like i had to think about what to press before i pressed it
I recently picked up a Razer Wolverine V3 Pro on Black Friday after my PS4 controller finally gave up the ghost. There are probably better options if you're only looking for FG performance, but it looks and feels so premium that it's just a joy to use. I wasn't sure at first if I would like the clicky D-pad, but it actually might be my favorite feature. It feels like a Sanwa stick for your thumb. Circular inputs feel amazing, the tactility gives me so much feedback.
For me, the most ergonomic controller is Pad, the most precise leverless and the most funnier to use is stick. Just choose your main goal.
Sticks destroyed my hands, wrists and elbows for years without giving me anything in exchange. Pad fixed that instantly, except for my thumb constantly in pain... but at least the inputs worked when I wanted.
Then I bought my leverless and everything has been much, much better.
I highly reccomend the Haute42 ones: they are cheap, sturdy and precise, you can choose the really small S model or the T model that gives more space for your palms. You can change most of the parts if you want, but honestly, you have to be extremelly sensitive to really notice a difference with other brands that are over a hundred dollars more expensive. Honestly, one of my best investments ever.
you uploaded this video at the perfect time as i have just started my search for my first fighting game controller. my left thumb/wrist is fatigued w the ps5 controller
i got a haute42 M16 and its in my opinion the best one. it has good weight, not to small, not to big. plenty of extra buttons, good button size and hot swappable. main downs, needs converter for ps5 & a bit loud
My fingers get tired fast on leverless so I cant play long despite cleaner execution. On stick the movement feels great and my inputs are sloppier in comparison and theres more risk of wrist injury but at least I dont get as tired. I dont use pad for fighting games, I want to keep my thumbs in good shape
Fightbox makes an excellent quality leverless in multiple layouts with Sanwa and brooks components and extremely affordable, I have 2 both in WASD movement layout. Been playing PC games for 25 years. Not learning that stupid thumb up button
My New Main is the Varmilo FK2. First ever Hall Effect Hitbox. Came from the Hitbox Crossup and Hautepad G16.
How do you feel about six face button controllers like the old Mad Catz fightpads or the Hori Fighting Commander 4? I've been using the Hori FC4 as my main controller for SF6 since launch.
Second this! I made the switch to the Fighting Commander Octa (which has a stick with directional edges, think GameCube controllers) and it feels like the perfect middle ground between Gamepad and Arcade Stick. Six button fighters like SF6, KI and Skullgirls are amazing with the additional two face buttons. My go-to controller since (until I can afford a Victrix ProCon for similar reasons).
Pad destroyed my thumb with chun li. I had to quit fighting games until i bought my friend's hitbox off of him just because my thumb would hurt so intensely. Hitbox has been perfect since, including all the SoCD shortcuts and everything; however it is much more bulky and loud.
Wierd my thumbs got destroyed because of the jump button on leverless , i had to use stick to stop the pain.
@@shaqthegr8884 I use the dpad on ps5 controller, using the stick is just way too imprecise. If you meant the arcade stick then mb.
13:00 the police are looking for you for your ilegal controller 😂
I've got the Haute42 T16 and to me the buttons don't feel mushy, but I won't rule out that maybe different switches would improve the feel. Maybe I'll try out some others down the line, but right out of the box it felt great.
I set the number pad on my keyboard to the attack moves. That way my arms aren't contorted to towards each other. I should upgrade to mechanical though I think. The more I play, the more input lag I notice sometimes with keys wearing out.
Love my metal haute, custom mechanical leverless controller by Foehammer, and Xbox controller. They feel different, really different --- but they dont change the game. For sure pick whatever feels best for you.
Highly agree with a lot of points in this video, used all 3 and I would rank them 1) Leverless. 2)Stick. 3)Pad. I'll say they all have their advantages and disadvantages. But I think Leverless is the next biggest new thing in the FGC. Specially with Qanba and Hori releasing some new leverless controllers in the near future. Def don't see either controller going away though, bc Pad is easily the most accessible. And sticks are a classic and feel more natural for fighting games imo; I specially noticed this when playing Player 2 Mishima on Tekken with a leverless. Made me currently go in a rabbit hole on picking Leverless and Stick for me to stay with 100% of the time
Saying it's the new big thing is so strange, since Hitbox has been around for so long. They have been big for a long time now lmao.
@hteety my bad ur right, I mean the types of leverless we are getting. Reverting away from using arcade buttons to keyboard switches, full size and low profile switches. Vitrix has a new one that use switches, Hori, and Qanba are going the same route. And so is Hitbox with their teased new leverless releasing
I've focused almost solely on arcade stick for competing since around 2010 and picked up leverless a couple years ago to dabble in, but still prefer stick. I'd like to give pad a try again, but it always feels like the option where my execution is the weakest. I like the Dualsense Edge benefits you showed though like the adjustable triggers and those back buttons. I have a Victrix pad but the adjustable trigger lock on those can undo itself if your finger grazes over that switch. And the pad just feels kind of cheap. I might give the Edge a try sometime.
The Aris transitions are killing me lmao
I play most of my games on stick but have been playing granblue more on leverless recently because it feels nice.
I actually really like the Xbox series Dpad myself.
The only thing I found matters outside of obviously ergonomics which is on the number one spot, is how well built a controller is. I have a very cheap (like 35$ with shipping) stick that sort of locks up on some diagonals so yeah...
That said playing on keyboard hurts my wrists while on a stick I can make use of more muscle groups reducing the strain. Obviously on keyboard you're pretty much only using your fingers, which is why I also avoid leverless unfortunately.
Also, the selection of controllers good for fighting games here in Europe is pretty poor... at least if you don't live in the UK or Germany.
At least we are slowly getting some good ones like Mayflash and Victrix. I hope to get a Mayflash eventually.
Edit: Forgot to mention that I used a PS4 pad for a while but they really do break easily. I bought a brand new one a year ago and it's already broken. The down arrow on the D-Pad gets stuck and I need to kind of mush it around for it to work. Probably an issue with the membrane but I don't really know if that's something I can fix myself.
I personally use the Qanba Obsidian for 2D fighters (with an 8-gate I modded inside) and the Hori Fighting Commander Octa for 3D fighters.
...I just need to put more hours into the Octa lmao
I use Hori OCTA as well - best pad I ever owned. Software is really helpful as you can use different setups for 3D and 2D fighters.
The problem I have with octa is dpad isn't great. I've gone through like 4. After that I just bought myself a haute.
Hear me out
The best controller is one you can get custom art for. I like my Micro XL with custom art, but you can't deny the surface area of older sticks or leverless like an mpress. Player expression doesn't just reside in the game
leverless may be a more optimized way of control but I just enjoy using stick more.
For me leverless is the most comfortable as an 41yo.
I've never been able to play with pad, doing even a QC with pad is too hard on my thumbs 😢
I'd love to hear your thoughts on more ergonomic leverless controllers like the Tikitaka or the Duelpad Zen
I have a Keychron alice-style mechanical keyboard that i use for playing. Its snappy. I don't have super-low actuation switches. I imagine this is what it feels like to play on a leverless.
NuPhy just released a gaming keyboard for i think $175 that has magnetic switches for super-low actuation and responsiveness.
i play on leverless but I'm really interested in learning stick because that's what arcades have. it's pretty funny when i hang out with my friends, we can spot some obscure rundown arcade cab, and i can't even flex on them bc i assume stick is gonna feel super weird to me, though admittedly i never tried
If you get a stick try to get an octagonal gate. Sticks usually have a square gate which is awful in my opinion. Gates are the shape which the stick goes through. For example joysticks have a circle gate (not really a gate but I'm sure you get what I mean)
@@ilikestamps2978 I used to be in the same boat as you, but genuinely, Square gates are so much better once you learn to not "ride the gate"
PS4 pad was perfect. I just detransitioned from stick to the Gamesir G7, the new HE edition with tactile dpad and mechanical buttons, and it's probably the best thing since the Ps3-4 pads. The first Xbox style gamepad with a dpad that actually registers diagonals. I was instantly able to do instant air dive kicks and Chunny air legs, which gave me problems with the horrible default Xbox pad. Would recommend it to anyone on pc, and maybe the 8bitdo M30. Cheaper but without mechanical buttons. Amazon Germany has 0 Ps5 pads. No idea what's going on at Sony
11:31
on gamepad you have 2 fingers for 6 buttons though?
A good starting fight stick is the 8bitdo arcade stick. It may not work natively with PlayStation consoles but its 90 bucks for a fight stick.
The best thing I took away from this is that you could put a dualshock 4 d pad in a dualsense. Thanks!
I'm old so I used with an arcade stick back when you didn't have buffers and needed frame perfect inputs so I'm use to it but I will say pad is the best just because analog+d-pad is broken.
18:02 No hate, but like this is clearly the W or up arrow key on a keyboard, it's meant to simulate WASD to use in menu-ing because in menus you're not jumping when trying to go up, it's unintuitive to use your thumb to go up as opposed to the up arrow.
Additionally, the Haute pad lights up as you press a button. By default this button is mapped to the same button as your left thumb. There's no way you can miss this. I'm doubting you even used the controller at that point.
All you have to do to give a good leverless analysis is say "Start off on keyboard, configure your buttons to whatever you want because you have so many options, then find a controller that has a button mapping just like what you use"
Honestly if you want a good leverless that is gonna be with the money for the budget. Haute 42 M16 plus with khail ghost switches.
You need an upgrade on a d-pad and a cheap option? My advice is the hori fighting commander octa.
D-pad is far more consistent and you can adjust directional sensitivities (did wonders for me) useable on most platforms, line 60$.
Micro-switch buttons.
Drawbacks are that it is not a PS vita d-pad, feels a little cheap but doesn't impact performance, L/R buttons feel bad. Strictly fg pad.
thanks sajam
ya i modded a couple dual shocks with the mechanical switches and find qaurter circle easier with stock d pad.
Razer Kitsune is my standard hitbox. I only wish that it also had PS4 compatibility too
i think one of the biggest pros the dual sense has over the ds4 is that it has usb C
wear a thumb sleeve to slide on dpad, I think it's easier using that
I use my ancient customized arcade sticks, and a PS3 dualshock controller with the Brook wingman.
Dia, you really need to try the Xbox Series X/S controller. So much better than the PlayStation controllers.
Best pad ive used is the flydigi Vader 3
As much as I like PS4 pads, another con that needs to mentioned is that the Mini-USB port is really bad at staying connected to the console compared to USB-C. I don't know how many times it decided to conk out mid-match
I will say, it seems like my ps4 controllers drop the diagonal down input. I had to switch to hori fighting commander and that seemed to work better. I was dropping lots of quartercircle back moves.
Is there a way to make the dualsense pad more durable?
Used to play pad, but the inconsistencies of the dpad killed me. Even from pads of the same make/model. I went to leverless
EndingWalker uses an Xbox controller...
The Haute controllers really get better with different switches I'd say. I kinda got used to them so much that I feel like they're just as good as sanwa.
Edit: you really are a boomer lol
Series S controller has the best dpad 1st party minus it kills your thumbs because the dpad is rigid.
I got a lot of shit for using leverless but it's so much easier on my hands, and you don't have to spend $200. The Haute42 pads are super cheap and high quality.
The only ones I wouldn't recommend are the MayFlash ones, specifically the Flat500 immediately began showing issues with its buttons, I might just be unlucky though.
What about fightpads?
Personally, I've been using Hori Fighting Commander OCTA for a while now and I plan on buying a spare in case the current one breaks - I absolutely love it.
You need to win a Fighting game tournament with a keyboard Diaphone.
Hey Diaphone, will you be trying that new Victrix Stick coming out in a few weeks ? I want a tourney legal stick without a converter but most only have 12 buttons😅
I play on keyboard exclusively. I have ps4 and ps5 controllers but like I cant get the dpad input down consistent for the life of me. Movement also just feels really awkward for me maybe since Ive just played computers more growing up than with controllers. Keyboard works perfectly fine unless maybe you wanna play in tournaments which isnt me
I made my leverless for 100 euros, 17 keys., sanwa switches except the ones that aren't used for gameplay.
mechanical keyboard is underrated its literally just a hitbox since most people have good keyboards for playing other games (anti ghosting)
idk if its tournament legal though
I wished that videos was made 2 years ago , i wouldn't go in leverless and destroyed my thumb with the jump button
Resident Xbox joystick user here, y'all are privileged
Not really? They make converters for xbox as well, you could use any controller you want.
same brother, I learned joystick on my xbox controller to play goldlewis in ggst
Xbox series D pad > Any DS4 and DS5 dpad. Mainly played grapplers back then when I only played on pad and out of all the Series X dpad was my ALL TIME FAVORITE back then. Hit celestial rank with potemkin using the series X dpad , I went away from playing on Pad but my time on using em, Series X takes it and it lasts me longer than any DS4 controller ever, still rocking the same Series X pad from 2020 (Have not tried the more premium xbox and dualsense controller to have an opinion on that lol)
I think for fighting games the Xbox controller are far better than the DS ones. The dpad alone is just more user friendly IMO
Xbox joystick is better than ps
Arcsys needs to gett their shit together and ban crossup abuse too.
at 1:00 it's obvious your Edge controller has a grip problem, but you don't mention it in the "review"
Might be a hot take, but I hate the ps4-5 dpad, I prefer 1000% the Xbox dpad. I also just like the clickiness of the xbox dpad so it I might be biased lmao.
Yea im with you, ps4 is too mushy, and ps5 pad is just the worst
i agree with you and in my opinion i think the reason a lot of the people say ps pad is good is because to them why bother buying xbox pad when they already have a "good" controller and save $60.
@@theelusivememe1772 especially with DP inputs, i can consistently hit corners and DPs with the xbox controller, but its a 50/50 with the ps4-5 controller haha.
@@kingangelo3838 i play tekken, and series x pad is the best for me at hitting electrics and wave dashing.
Yesss dude. Ps4/Ps5 dpad is so mushy and imprecise feeling
The dpad on the standard Dualsense is much stiffer compared to the one found in Edge. In general the buttons are of a higher quality in Edge. Do you need a Dual Sense Edge over the standard Dualsense? No, not at all. Is it nicer? Yeah it is a bit nicer all around
My own experience with PS controllers PS4 is by far the best controller I ever used beside Xbox 360 controller bought it back in 2015 still works till now no delay input , no joystick drifting and works AOK though the PS5 controller bought it 6 months ok and already have a severe joystick drifting which sucks as hell since there expensive but would love to know if there's new controllers that don't have this problem ( drifting ).
I actually got a controller from battle beaver where I put the same mechanical dpad on it, stoped using it cause I suck at doing inputs on it😭
you guys are missing out the best controller ever is the logitech cordless rumblepad 2
Take a shot every time Diaphone says the word fumble.
I use a custom crossup and I use the capcom SOCD. ( I play tekken)
360 controller is where is at.
YESSIRRRRRRRR WHERES MY XBOX DPAD
Most basic answer . Use what you want. In my case , my wrist started to hurt using a joystick so I transitioned to a lever less controller
I saw a stickless controller on ebay for 30$ with free shipping, I never had a stickless before hence I am a keyboard player so I dont know if its worth it
You’re really better off getting one of the options in the video… you will definitely get what you pay for with only $30
Where are my keyboard bro's?
Idk what yall be doin to ur ps4 pads but mine last fkn ages ive been using the same pad for like 2 years or so and ive had another one for even longer that still works perfectly fine I personally love the ps4 pad and if there ever comes a day i have to swap off it ima definitely be bringing the d pad with me its to perfect