300 Blackout - 135gr Sierra Varminter
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- Опубликовано: 25 авг 2017
- Today we test the 135gr Sierra Varminter with IMR 4227 and Winchester 296.
UPDATED 09/27/2018 - All links have been removed to comply with RUclips content policies.
www.patreon.com/reloading
Without a doubt, the best hand loading channel on RUclips.
Still trying figure out how he got 20,050 fps from that 10.5" bbl. ;-) (28:50) That would definitely rearrange one's face.
This my dude right here man..his face ain't all in the camera and he stays on the topic of discussion.. unlike some RUclips gun owners .. take notes
I find myself everyday like a kid on Saturday morning waiting for my favorite cartoons to come on. You do excellent work Johnny! Let us know if there is anything we can do. Keep it up.
I usually don't write comments but that was extremely informative process. I never realized that bullets can grow or shrink. Pat yourself on the back for really good content.
Loving these videos Johnny. Good investigative work I like it. Thanks again
I use these for my deer hunting! Took about 16 deer with these! Got a couple hogs with them too!
What barrel length and what distances?
That’s why I stay with Hornady 125 gr SST projectiles with 18 grains of 4227 - getting 1900-1920 out of my 11.5 in pistol. 2000+ out of the 16”.
I do appreciate your “ pushing the pressure boundaries “ so that I don’t have succumb to those urges because I get to watch you do it. I do get phenomenal accuracy from that load combo.
Thanks for the data!
I have experienced the same accuracy problem and blown primers, well under highest load data 4227, destroyed brass and all kinds of irregular performance. I just returned from measuring after chambering and my overall length shortened buy a huge amount. Pushed back into the case 20 thou and a few pushed back beyond shoulder.... scary. Tried all the crimp I can get out of my lee crimp die and problem seems to be solved, getting repeatable results now. Keep up the honesty and excellent testing love you in depth look at this stuff!!!!!
I'm glad to see your video including using a case gauge tool for ammo, hopefully this step will be shown more in the videos where you focus on a specific reloading subject or focus on reloading quality control steps.
Unfortunately much of the reloading video content seems to gloss over that this important step isn't necessary.
Then people suddenly run into ammunition issues out in the field and sweep the problem under the rug or complain about how they can't get their ammunition to feed right and they don't know why.
I have never had neck tension issues for any 300 blackout round using the RCBS 300 Blackout Small Base AR set when using it to just set the seating depth (without using seating die's taper crimp) using a proper crimp on the Lee Factory Crimp die.
I regularly check using calipers on bullet OAL change when I load a new or unknown bullet to check the proper OAL/OGive for my gun's chamber using a dummy test round when the specifications for the bullet are not published. (bulk mixed bullets, etc.)
I am just starting to load for my 300 blackout. I have a lot of good data from you. I'm using winchester 296 for now.
Please don't blow your face off. I'll be to find another channel to watch. Lol. Great videos. Keep them coming.
The last rounds of Winchester 296 at 19.0 you can actually see the primer ejecting out after the 2nd round you shot. At first I asked myself what the hell was that, but at the end of the video when you showed the brass having aome primers missing I went back and watched the last set of rounds and sure enough it was a primer coming out as the bolt locked back. I really enjoy your content and plan to mention you when I finally get to start doing my own reloading videos so please be safe! I don't want to be mentioning you in my videos referring to to you in past tense if you know I mean. Keep up the aweaome work man.
Regardless of feeding issues bullet setback and bullet jump are neck tension issues. I'm sure your aware but thought is worth re-mentioning for subscribers. Changes in OAL definitely affect accuracy and some of those groups proved how much they do. Thanks for the work you do! Some others may not be aware that different neck tension in ones loads (even without OAL changes) affect accuracy too. Thanks for the work, keep sharing i'll keep following!
When using IMR4227, I always have feeding issues with both 125grain sierra pro hunter and the 130 varmiter. Therefore, I use nosler BT and hornady SSTS in 125 grain and have zero problems. Just FYI....with 19 grains of MP-300 and a 125 grain SST, I'm able to get over 2300 ft/s out of a 16" barrel. No real pressure signs either. It's my go to deer hunting load. Nice video.
You're a smart guy, Johnny. If that had happened to me, I'm not sure I would have found the setback anywhere nearly as fast as you.
One thing that you do that I probably wouldn't, is swap gun parts so much. I don't think I could keep track of all the different receiver parts like you can!
Your videos are very interesting to me.
I would warn everyone that watches your great videos for load data: Resist the temptation to replicate Johnny's loads. Your AR platform may have a shorter throat, chamber dimentions, made from different alloys, etc.. There are many companies making/selling AR parts. START LOW, and work up.
Cool man this is a great video, so many questions to be answered! I hope you have found the issue. A 300 blk bolt gun would be super cool! For absolute quiet. Good stuff JRB!
I know this is 3 years late haha but I have just been messing with 110g varminters. The projectile is actually too short and they start to tilt up in the mag when shot. So when the bolt goes forward it jams the bullet above the chamber. I’ve tried every type of mag and it is all the same.
Thanks for your effort and great videos!
Man, I miss Johnny so badly! I'm gonna rewatch everything!
I'll be forever grateful to him.
did he pass away or something?
No, he was just a little burned out and needed to take some time off. He's back now, but not quite as prolific.
I've discovered that the larger the opening at the end of the bullet, the more likely they are to grab the sharp edge of the feed ramp. I generally take a jeweler's file and break the sharp edge off the beginning of the feed ramp and the hollow points don't grab near as much or often.
For my subsonic stuff I settled on a pistol length gas system, and ended up building a mid-length gas system upper for my supersonic 300AAC work. These are both 16 inch barrels. This gave me the most accuracy without violent extractions on the supers. My system was over gassed and I didn't want to put an adjustable gas block and fuss back and forth over supers vs subs. I also want to plug Faxon barrels in 300 AAC. I would recommend them highly. Keep up the good work Johnny. Can you try a Faxon barrel sometime?
Had the same problems with the wedge bullets catching the feed ramps. Just opened them up a little with a dremel and using a M3 pmag, fixed the problem. Still FTF with Gen 2 pmags.
296 seems to work well for subsonic loads. But i had good results with both 7.62x 39 an 300 whisper using IMR 4227 in super sonic loads
The ammo checker is a great tool. I use them before I finish any round to be put in the ammo can. It’s really frustrating when your out at the range and your firearm doesn’t go into battery because the rnd isn’t properly finished.
I crimp all my rnds, especially in the AR platform. That action is so violent that it’s not worth not crimping the final step.
I don't reload. But I like watching your scientific analysis of results. Thank you.
I've solved my double/slam fire issues by replacing the light hammer spring I installed with the stock spring. This increased the pull from 2.5# to 3#. I still have a light spring on the trigger.
You can see the primer flying out at 25:00.
No manicure on you.
i was right. my first initial thoughts were you werent crimping them correctly when you were loading them. soon as i noticed them moving when you were having loading issues gave me all the info i needed.
Very interesting information, thank you for your time posting this information.
JRB, if you will swirl charge your cases you'll get a more settled charge and increase capacity. A side benefit is often SD goes down and accuracy goes up...learned this from Mic McPherson and it truly works. Rather than pouring the powder charge into the funnel and down the slide, pour it in perpendicular and close to the top...i.e. At a right angle to the funnel slope. It will swirl into the case and settle much better adding capacity and burn much more consistent.
You can get funnels with long feed tubes that help swirl charging. I have one, it says "Bonanza Blue Ribbon" by Forster, with a 6" tube.
As always, great data thanks. Also, I would pay for a "don't blow your face off" bench mat. Maybe Johnny's Reloading Bench at the top and Don't Blow Your Face Off on the bottom with the channel thumbnail in the center
They are coming soon! I've got the supplier all worked out and I just need to sit down and finish the design. I just haven't had the time to do that properly here in August. Mats, shirts, gigantic foam fingers...the whole deal is coming soon.
RedlegFA I'd like to buy one as well.
And T-shirts too! Great idea!
Johnny's Reloading Bench any update on these mats?
Johnny's Reloading Bench is this still in the works?
Johnny, I found just recently reloading the 300 blk Gem tech, I had primmer blow outs too!. And also seems like softer brass. I'm staying with LC and FC only!. Haven't had a problem since...Oh the lee 300 blk factory crimp die is the cats meow!!!. And I only use the RCBS PN# 22407 die set. As I said before, I have never bought, not one stinking box of factory 300 blk ammo yet!..
"This is a really bad idea." Keeps shooting. :-)
If you wet tumble, the deburred inside and outside tends to get rounded off, making the chamfers smoother.
Was having the same types of jams with various loads. Haven't had a problem since i got some 300 Black Pmags.
Looks like the 4227 should be used for 110gr Hornady Z max on how much case space you have left after charging. Love you channel, been watching for the passed week now. I'm getting back into 300BLKOUT, dusted of my XL650 with the trimmer and tool head to convert my brass. Haven't touched it in 5 years, but you've given me that desire to pump out brass and reload for my blackout.
Definitely your issue is with your BA barrel. I have the same problem with ALL hollow points. But it runs all fmj or ballistic tips. I ended up pitching my barrel and getting a better one. No more problems.
I had read lots about lead-out (stretching) problems. happens with both my guns, that's why I always crimp. It gets more problematic the heaver the bullets. It's seems to me, very predictable, and can be compensated for. Maybe a die issue for me, (doubt it) but I only have the lee set. Kinda looks as though those funky hollow point must be hitting right where the feed ramps meet at the receiver and extension. maybe ones a bit off. never had any problems with pmags. would have thought if it was a gas issue it would have shown itself already.
The 300 whisper was very successful in the TCContender for special applications starting in the Yugoslavia war. With tuning of gas pressure it could be applied to the AR 15 but it was developed for subsonic ammo. I have yet to see a reliable fighting semiautomatic gun shooting supersonic loads. I have over 20 years exposure to this caliber . I like the load , but would use it in a manual loaded gun only. If someone wants to go big in caliber with an AR15 ,go to 6.5 Grendel with a good bolt. I want try out a Uintah bolt action upper on my AR next and use this as a stealth/ fighting combo. I like to see a ballistics gel test to see how this bullet would perform on white tail deer.
Looks like it may be a bullet design issue that's picky with feeding, although I'm sure you will be able to get it to feed finding a magazine it likes (300 Pmag probably) and or playing with the OAL. I don't think Sierra would release a bullet that won't feed, I'm sure you will work that out.
Will be interesting to find out your results from the neck tension of each brand sizing die. I have only used one RCBS AR series sizing die and that's in .223 and I have found if anything that die produces tight neck tension. I haven't found a need to crimp anything with that die. See if maybe you can measure the expanded ball on that die compared to the expander ball on your other 300 blackout dies?
Good shooting JRB.
Try the 296 loads without the magnum primer, it will help lower the pressures in those loads by a good margin, and the magnum primer isn't needed to set off 296 if you use a non-CCI primer.
I have had good luck with hexmags with 300. Also because of our goofy hunting laws here in IL I am able to use 300 blackout for hunting with a pistol. But I have to use a bobsled. Pistols have to be single shot, or revolver. I'm finding I like the bobsled when I'm single loading. It just gives you a nice shelf to lay the cartridge on before feeding, and the bolt locks back after firing.
I use the "Trim It 2", it is awesome. After resizing the case it trims, champers, and deburrs, al in one step (once it's set for the cartridge your doing). It combines 3 steps of my 7 total steps it takes for my reloading procedure.
I use the Lee Power Quick Trim: die and cutter total of around $33, which is about 1/4 the cost of the Trim It 2. It trims, chamfers and deburrs also..
Bring back the 16-inch AR stoner Barrel back into testing that was a good shooter
I have always crimped my 300BO and never had a problem. LFC works every time, needs about a 1/4 turn from touching.
Try polishing the feed ramps. I had some feed issues and polishing helps.
NOOOOO!!, now every fan boy gonna buy up my favorite defense round!
I'm loading for a CVA Scout 18" single shot. I get best velocity with H110 and best accuracy with IMR 4227. I'm using Fiochhi brass and cut down TA mil brass, Rem 7 1/2 primers. Tried Speer 130 gr Varmint, Sierra 125 Game King, and 125 gr Match King. The SMK's shot the best by far, not a surprise.
Also have shot the 200 gr Sierra Game King BT with H110 at 9.0 grs. 3 inch group. I don't have a can but they were much more quiet.
great video johnny
check the way the feed ramps on the upper and barrel meet. i've had them not match up well and cause issues like this. I've had to machine match them to stop feeding issues. In my 300blackout everyone said you can't run plated rounds and they fed beautiful in my rifle and were extremely accurate....
Used the same bullets a while back in my 300 b/o 10.5" and it would not cycle either. I tried and tried but always jammed. Gave up and loaded them for my AR10 and they were very accurate. so they did not go to waste.
Do you have and 300 B/O magazines instead of using 223/556 mags?
I reloaded 300 blkout with Hornady 110gr Varmint Rounds and found I had to seat them at 1.940 or they hit the feed ramp and cause tip deformation, fill up a mag, shoot one then pull the bullet and look at the tip of the chambered round. See if you get the crushed mark on the side of the tip of the Bullet.
Not much neck tension with 300 blkout a factory crimp die will solve that issue. I ran into this same issue. Thanks for the videos very informative really enjoy the shot strings sequence.
I have one of those ammo checkers and run fifteen percent of all my ammo through it. The ones that stick like that one did get shot first and have worked one hundred percent of the time. My press is so dialed in along with my process im actually debating removing the ammo check step considering only one of roughly 500 checks snags like that.
Have you considered the sharp bullet profile might have been the issue with some of the feeding problems. As always very informative and looking forward to the next video.
PS I would like a video on your powder throwing and weighing procedures.
Thanks,
Holy cow, at 25:01 you can literally see the primer flying out of the gun, no where near its case.
Hey johnny, would you recommend lil gun for these and if so what grain or have you made a video on this before. Thank you for any advice
that intro killed me 😂😂 keep up the good work!
4227 is my best BO powder. I load the 235 Seira and haven't had any issues. I put enough crimp on so that the bullet won't push in on my bench edge. Anything that doesn't have a canelure I crimp.
Try holding pressure up on the bottom of the magazine. I have had some issues with the mags being a little low and diving into feed ramp, yet pushing up or shooting from the prone resting the gun on magazine base plate seems to help and or eliminate a question about mag differences.
Please wear a mask or something dude, those over pressured rounds scared the shit out of me.
Great job. A lot of data in half an hour. This surely helped a lot a reloading guys.
also I had issues with the 245gr Missouri cast bullets in my blackout with normal mags having feed issues, got a 300BLK pmag and problem solved
Have you had any luck with d&h metal mags with a 300 Blackout round?
I really like that Lyman ammo checker for any semi-auto rounds I am making, because it is so crucial you get all rounds to chamber properly in that case. For bolt guns, why bother, heh.
I saw one of the primers drop out of that last string of 19 grains. 3rd shot of the last string. if the bullet is being set back as it travels the feed-ramp and then extends once slamming into the chamber, that bullet is now loose in the neck. I'd say it is sitting in the lands, which is going to create high pressures.
I once went to the Hodgdon site just to grab some 44 mag pressure data as I was explaining H110 is a great powder for full power 44 mag loads but its not flexible. Take a look at the pressure spike a few tenths of a grain gets you on the top end.
H-110 delivers but its not to be pushed
As far as setback I think the rib in the Magpul mag is causing lateral deflection, Its likely the collision is not with the feed ramp.
Magpul offers 300 BLK mags which may solve your problem
I am just getting into reloading after a 40 year absence. Starting with my suppressed 14 inch supersonic 300 Blackout. I might as well use your hard work help eliminate potential accuracy issues in a hunting load so I thought I would start with the 135 grain Sierra Varminter with IMR 4227 and Win 296, since you had some luck with it. Any other suggestions? Hopefully I dont end up down the rabbit hole.
I'd be interested in you shooting two groups of each load. One with chrono and one without.
Ishot this bullet a couple of weeks ago. CFE BLK performed flawlessly as far as function goes. Lil'gun, well that's another story. 25 consecutive FTF, FTE, piss poor performance overall plus the Lil'gun loads performed like they were subsonic. Was using a light crimp from Lee Factory Crimp die as the Hornady die set didn't provide enough neck tension to prevent what you saw with the feed ramps driving the bullet deeper into the case. The experience made me order some 115 gr controlled chaos and some H110.
Love the 300blk vids once I have money from bring broke for the next 4-6 months I'll support more of this content. Also what's your thoughts of reloading 300 on a 3 stage press
Watching your 300 BO videos really makes me want to build a new upper. Maybe I'll build it for a future hog gun.
I loaded up some 100gr sierra varmenteers last week. Win 296 failed to eject and feed every round. When I was wondering if it was the gas system, the bullet profile, or the mag. The groups were also not that great. Then I switched to the rounds I loaded with CFE Black. Same OAL. They all functioned propey and were much tighter groups. Im still considering getting a 300blk pmag because the MTF I have are hanging up if I load more than 5 rounds.
JRB ... How well are the feed ramps blending between the upper receiver and barrel extension? Is there a ledge or something that the tip of that bullet is catching on that a typical tipped or even hp tip wouldn't catch on?
the hand wave in the beginning made me cackle like an idiot for no reason
I keep looking for the sweet spot in a subsonic between 150 and 200 Grain through a 16" and an 8" barrel. Do you have any suggestions?
Would you consider redoing this video but with the 300 pmag? I suspect your accuracy and feed issues are significantly influenced by the clipazine.
I had to seat the bullet long in my blackout, I had the same problem of it hitting the feeding ramp.
So i did some checking on Oal movement. My 223 didnt move, my 308 gas gun slightly moved forward but my 300 blackout 125 tnt moved a lot without crimp and with taper crimp. I too have the rcbs sb die, Forrester bench rest seater and rcbs tc
How much did your 300BLK TNT loads move with the crimp?
The same feed issue with the Rainier wedge bullets.
Magazine related. I've had the same thing with pmags and certain 300bo loads...
I ordered some Speer 130gr Hollow Points. They're affordable for plinking, but also being a hollow point, I can't help but wonder if they'll make a decent home defense round. My only concern would be lack of a proper wound cavity and over penetration. Any thoughts on this?
Hey Johnny, have you ever considered trying an AAC 9 inch or 12.5 inch barrel? I have both and find them to be super accurate... the 9 inch even more than the 12.5... just sayin, seems your quest for accuracy may eventually lead you down the AAC road. Hec, they are the ones who made the 300 what it is today, why not try one of their barrels? My best results are with 125gr Speer TNT and the 130 HP's as well using H110... just my experience, i haven't tried other barrels as i was so impressed with the 9 inch AAC barrel that i bought the 12.5 as well, greater velocity but just shy of being as tight as the 9, still get great groups with it though.
Hey Johny, can you turn off autofocus in your camera when you shoot? It constantly hunts for focus when you move your hand around.
7.62x40WT (.300 Blackout predecessor with 5mm more case length) I've found plain old Hornady 110-grain V-Maxes to work pretty damned well on "varmints". At least if you consider center-punching a prairie dog at 150+ yards in some decent wind with my first round "in the field" after "building" my Wilson Combat barreled 18" AR "pretty damned well". I'm pretty sure I used H110 Hodgdon but I'd have to go back and look. I do know they were shooting a nice consistent 2450-2500 fps across my Shooting Crony Gamma Master with zero pressure signs. Winchester SR primers in my "homemade" Lake City cases.
I bought a jig somewhere online, set it up in used minitiature cut-off saw I bought on eBay and did a lot of "testing and tuning" until I got it dialed in so that post-cutting, deburring, sizing/forming, deburring (deburring at every step along with plenty of Imperial Die Wax took me from 10% case loss to 0% case loss) got me to a point where my finished cases are about .005" long and take about two turns on the trimmer to bring to "spec" for that cartridge.
At the other end of the scale I use 150-grain
Johnny, did you ever use a Q or alternative high twist barrel?
The Honeybadger and a few competitors use 1/5" twist. Supposedly it helps a lot, but it may reduce velocity slightly and the faster loads might be getting overstabilized, which likely doesn't matter at short range, but past 200 yards that might lead to the appearance of yawing nose up past the apogee.
But supposedly, with expanding bullets, high twist aids in expansion slightly. Instead of petals curling back, they pinwheel out in a radial pattern (like a ratchet). At lower velocities it might allow them to perform in some manner instead of ice picking.
I have a question for you. I hope you read this because it's going to help me a lot. I popped my cherry on a AR-15 a few weeks ago. It's a frankengun. DSA lower and a Dpms 18" 1-9 twist upper. I have been doing a lot of reading on the set-up and now I'm wishing it would have had a 1-8 twist. Anyway. I want to go with a 300 AAC. I have been looking at the Hardened arms 16" 1-10 5 groove upper with a 15" crucible heat shield quad rail. It has a very interesting muzzle break. They have a big sale on then. $230 off at $299 W/O the BCG. I wish I could show you the upper so you could see. The cheaper 300 AAC uppers only have a 4 groove 1-10 barrel. Will the extra groove help me with cast bullets? I had a bunch of .30 Cal molds and I want to try casting for the 300. I already have about 1000 each 155 gb and 125 gn FMJ to get started with. I'm not shooting sub rounds. I never liked the .223 for others then prarrie dogs. The sad thing is that I feel the need for a high capacity rifle my wife can shoot. She is 4'10" And 95 lbs and I'm 6'2" and 578 now. We look like a second show at the circus. She can't handle my M1 Garand or my M1A. Our neighborhood has gone to crap in the last 3 years and Property values have dropped by an average of $20,000. We had drug dealer all around us. I'm building a rack that goes between the mattress and box spring that will hold my AR-15 so when the bed is made you can't see the rifle. I already mad a hidden compartment in a mirror that's next to the front door so I put my wife's Taurus 605 .357 in it and have a 45 in a false bottom drawer in the kitchen. I don't like leaving firearms loaded around the house but they have magnetic locks on them so if we have kids D's come over it will limit thier access to them. Sorry way off point here. I want a good self defense round for the .300 AAC that I can stuff 40 rounds in a magazine and can have a bit of false sense of security. We are looking for a farmette to move to so I can have a place to shoot. Maybe I will get a rooster so I can be like Elvis Ammo. Do you know what happened to him. He has been gone now for a bit. I hope he didn't run into any legal problems. That would not be so nice. Sorry again for the long post. I'm going to do a big no no and put my number on here if you want to get ahold of me. I found out that these texting machines have a tellephon app so you can actually use it as a phone.😀 My number is 815-520-0922 if you would like to talk and cut through the crap of texting. I hope to hear from you. Happy shooting.
This video, as with the crimp test video, you have good groups with a flyer.
That flyer is almost always coming from the first shot. Meaning the flyer occurs when the round is chambered by hand and not by the cycling of the action via firing.
Check out your other target groups, you will see that the first round loaded by hand is almost always The Flyer.
I think the over pressure was coming from the bullets being jammed back into the cases..... and not the charges. You had pressure signs on the starting loads.
How are you single loading?
From the mag? Or dropping the bolt on a chambered round?
I didn't have any feeding issues when shooting this same bullet I used cfe blk I love that powder for 300 blk out
Wow ! Good Show Johnny !
I have the same failure to feed issues when shooting Speer 130 Gr hollow points. I don't think AR feed ramps like the short hollow points.
What was the end result with this issue? I have loaded 300BLK with RCBS and Hornady dies without this type of problem. Including some cast bullets I poured.
Were those stretch marks I saw around the case heads of the hotter W296 loads?
300 blk out accuracy comes down to magnum primers and good consistent crimps.
Are you planning to revisit this? I wanted to try these out with some AR2207. Im thinking they will perform alot better than the 168gr Hornady ELD matches ive been using with 15.3gr AR2207
If it were my bench, I would also include an A/B test with the homemade brass vs the factory brass.
Does this barrel have 300 feed ramps Johnny?
As you were making up the rounds, I was thinking that I didn't quite agree with you. I like having a GOOD crimp on rounds that call for a crimp (as opposed to a 9mm tapered case for example) and this test showed exactly why. The down side of good crimps can be: what?? The down side of under crimping can be several things. Kind of a no brainer to me and is especially true for magazine fed firearms and the bigger the mag (and/or higher the recoil) the more the potential for issues. Another plus is the philosophy behind Lee's Factory Crimp dies being created with the case design the driving factor for the die design: i.e. crimp vs taper.
Old video, but I have been following the 300 blackout series. Did u ever find it necessary to use a small base die before you form the 300 blk ?or do ou just use the Lee set to form ?
@25:01 saw that primer fly out
Map Led yep, saw it as well
26:22...good catch!
Shoot the same bullet with the same loads unsuppressed. If you still have feeding issues then it is likely the cartridge itself. If you do not, the bolt carrier speed may be too high/fast from the additional gas the suppressor gives the gun.
Just getting started in hand loads. Any reason to NOT use cci #400 primers for .300 blk? I see load data with wsr and #450's. but a sm rifle magnum primer? Is it really needed?