I would love to hear an update on this revolver when you have something to report. I don’t know anyone who has had to deal with RIA customer service department before. Keep up posted Buffalo! Love all your videos!
About 3 years ago I had to have my dealer return a M1911 XT .22 WMR pistol shortly after purchase due to numerous light primer strikes, failures to feed, and failures to eject. After about a month RIA sent me a new pistol which is almost 100% reliable. I was pleased with their customer service. I am a big fan of the .22 WMR, shooting primarily Punch and Federal Game Shok 50 grain bullets, and the CCI 40 grain offerings.
Sounds like RIA needs to offer you a quick rebuild or replacement. You are too good a shooter for that type and quantity of inaccurate stuff. Also, thanks for the honesty. They are tools and some are simply not going to work. It will be interesting to see how RIA handles this imperfect version.
I had the same problem with my R.I.A. model 206 38 revolver. I sent my back to R.I.A. with in 3 weeks I had my gun back fully repaired. Good luck Buffalo.
The Pistol also has a mechanical binding with its internal lockwork, (The hammer gets stuck Cocked to the rear), and the cylinder release latch doesn't catch allowing the cylinder to disengage and swing out and open. Now, granted, this pistol isn't a Smith&Wesson Mod-17, however, it is modeled after one, it also incorporates some parts resembling a Charter Arms revolver. overall, it is an attempt to go after a consumer group that seeks budget-priced firearms, and that's great, however, the product must function trouble-free right out of the box it came in to meet VALUE.
Please keep doing reviews like you are. It's important to show the real world conditions in which you're shooting. Sometimes stuff malfunctions. Have the same gun and haven't had this issue, but I noticed that it's taking a while to break in. Thanks for showing us your experience and let us know how RIA treats you. Good luck!
Brother, I'm so very sorry you're having to deal with that. What a shame on rock islands part. Man, I've never seen this yet on a 22 mag pistol. Surely you would think RIA would own up and correct the issues. I hope they do make it right. Appreciate the video! God bless you and the family
IMO (and without inspecting it myself) I believe that due to the fact that you are able to shoot some very nice groups but then have an Un stabilized bullet regardless of the chamber it fired from it must be a timing issue that is random in nature. We saw the cylinder lock, unlock, remain unlocked or locked even though it would appear that the cylinder was put into battery correctly. This tells me that when the cylinder fired shoots the bullet un stabilized that the cylinder was under or over rotated (not properly aligned with the barrel) If it were a barrel crown issue all the groups would be poor, and you would not have just 1 out of 5 un stabilized. If it were an oversized bore, all the groups would be poor, and you would not have just 1 out of 5 un stabilized. If 1 of the chambers was too tight or too loose then only that chamber would produce the un stabilized round. If all of the chambers were too tight or too lose it would result in all of the bullets being un stabilized or every group would be large. You wouldn't be able to produce the tight clusters we see in some of the groups. Something is very wrong inside that revolver
He takes the words right out of my mouth. (With 55 years of experience! Yes I was shooting S&W .22 lr. and .38 spl. with my dad). This sounds likely. Be sure to let us know.
The first thing I thought, if this man is having issues with a weapon, its DEFINITELY the weapon! All of us have seen you put many, many, many items through their paces. If there is one thing we all can agree on, if you say the gun has issues, no one here would ever think to argue with you! The next thing that crossed my mind.... Monday morning or a late on Friday gun in production!😆😄 I, like others are really curious how RIA is going to resolve this for you! Please keep us in the loop Amigo!
Donny Armstrong, do not respond to this comment from the 306-346 number. it’s not a giveaway and it’s not Buffalo. I just figured this out the hard way. 😡
Thought the same thing, but if that were so, how come he has a tighter group with the other fired rounds, but has one that keyholes? If it was the timing, wouldn't it affect more than one round?
Not a gunsmith, but maybe the chambers aren't evenly spaced in the cylinder. Or the pawl and notches advancing the cylinder are out of whack. I wouldn't want to shoot this until the problem is fixed. Imagine if it was a .44, .500 S&W, etc, a keyholing bullet would be the least of your concerns.
@@brianscott7366 I agree, I think that weapon has a serious problem and I wouldn't settle for anything less than a full replacement, or my money back. Oh gosh, a 44 or 500? I wouldn't want to imagine.
Wow! Do some of these manufacturers not test what they make before they go to market? And this model is on the high end of MSRP for a 22WMR revolver. I honestly don't know what I'm going to buy for a 22 magnum revolver. Some of the ones I wanted, you can't find and some of the ones I find that are available, are no bueno. That's a shame, because it's really good looking. Thanks for saving me some money with your honest review.
Send R.I.A. the revolver and a link to your video. It’s great that your gun shop owner is such a stand-up guy that he wants to make it right, but honestly, it’s not his fault. And it would make for a great follow-up video to show how they handle it, either by repair or replacement. They should also send you some ammo that they recommend using in it. It’s the least they can do. And perhaps a holster.....Thanks for sharing, we’re all watching to see how they take care of you.
Thank you for this review. While this one wasn't pleasant, your follow-up video of RIA's customer service AND the performance of the repaired/replacement weapon will be very important. Again, many thanks.
i did some testing and stuff with one of these last year and ended up having an issue where the cylinder would lock up. after a little looking, it was obviously a cylinder stop issue. i talked with the gunsmith over at RIA, who has always been helpful and he told me how the cylinder stop was designed. i took everything aparts (the clylinder stop contains a spring, plunger, etc), cleaned it all out, put it back together and never had an issue again. my guess is that there was some machining shavings or gunk or something that worked it's way in the wrong spot. i never experienced any other weird issues with the one i had over the oh i would say 2K rounds put through it for testing, various ammo. that said, things can have problems... i am usually one of those lucky people who seem to always find the ones that work great.
Even if it is the 22 lr version you have experience with, I'm guessing his cure wouldn't be too far off. Better than my suggestion of an out of spec outside Cylinder diameter or circumference
~ 10:37.... Your INTEGRITY is UNQUESTIONED as far as any Metric I KNOW.... You are ALWAYS HAPPY to show a Great Product and fair 4 in all Judgements.... You even Hi Lighted the Glock 22 lr Failures and tried to give them a Chance!!! That's why GUN Channel Groupies Love your style!!!
Thanks Buff for another good ol' down home review. Been seriously considering this gun, but believe I'll holt off for a spell and see if they improve things.
Wolff Zambelli-please do not respond to this comment from the 346-306 number above, it’s not Buffalo and it’s not a real giveaway. I found out the hard way.😡
I've had trouble with a couple of revolvers and the shops where I bought them sent them back with no cost to me. It took a while for each gun, but they came back fixed. I hope your shop and your manufacturer take care of this for you. Everyone can mess something up but the response to a problem show the difference in service.
When I experienced binding of the cylinder as you demonstrated, I found 2 causes. The revolvers were S&W. The 1st was a partially unscrewed ejector rod. The 2nd was caused by unburnt powder particles underneath the ejector star. I first had serious doubts concerning the quality of R.I.A revolvers when viewing a video by Justin Opinion. In the video it could be seen that the revolver was constructed with a 2 piece sleeve & shroud method. The shroud had a cheap, poorly fitted appearance with a gap visible around the muzzle. The lock work & severe accuracy problem is much more serious. Good luck on getting the problem straightened out.
I thought that since it was only one out of every 5 or so shots, it might be a deformed or misaligned cylinder bore. However you were already checking that and painting those each time you had a keyhole. Now I think it is one or more interior components that are loose, broken or defective that affect the timing and are causing occasional misaligned cylinder bores and also locking up your trigger. Very strange, indeed.
IMO; 1 chamber is mis-aligned just enough to cause the actual bullet to enter the leade of the rifling, thus causing a "yaw" entrance. The exit will vary slightly each time, thus each "key-hole" will not be exactly same area on target, but will consistently be off group. Short: replace cylinder/ problem likely solved. IMO. Scrap this idea!!! That gun is CURSED!! Maybe try exorcism!?!
@@buffalosoutdoors it's the ejector rod that is loose. That's why it locks up and is out of time. Needs to be screwed down with locktite. You may also have a bad spring in the cylinder stop.
I like the shelter you put up. Surprised you didn't do that long time ago. I don't see any boiled peanuts on the table next to your soda. lol I really enjoy watching your videos. Keep up the great work.
Looks like RIA needs to replace your revolver. Like you said, it’s a sample of one so you have to give RIA a chance to make it right. Great demonstration of the issue Buffalo. Thanks again for another honest review.
Possible metal shavings in the action could cause both a timing problem and the lockup. I'd remove the grip and then flush the action with Breakfree CLP in a spray can. This might get the the shavings out if there are any. Also try working the action with the grip removed. Sometimes grips can cause problems, Good luck.
I’ve had the same thing occur with a Heritage Rough Rider 22 after just over 500 rounds. By 600 rounds it started to keyhole about 90% of shots. It’s a bummer for sure when this happens, but cheaper guns can have these issues i’ve found.
I'm glad that I read this comment before I commented. I bought the Heritage Rough Rider 4 3/4" barrel a few months ago, and the first couple of times that I fired the magnum rounds, I was getting mostly keyholes. The .22LR was fine, and accurate, but I haven't shot any more magnum rounds since. I thought it might have to do with the twist rate. My 6 1/2" Heritage is fine with the magnum rounds. All of the screws were very loose, so I have used thread locking on all of them.
@@seanomeirs8362 mine is a 4-3/4” barrel as well and came with both LR and Mag cylinders. It fired both LR’s and Mags with pin point accuracy out of the box. Timing is good, but something is up with the barrel.
I bought a second Heritage with both cylinders. The 22lr was way off to one side, as were many other video channels reviews, but the 22Mags would not even hit the target at 10 feet. Two shooter and the same result. I sent it back, Taurus destroyed the gun and sent a replacement after several months. The new one is still in the box as I don't care about shooting it any longer. I have another an it was fine. I am done with these cheap guns.
Give RIA's warranty department a chance to make it good. As complicated as the mechanics are in a revolver one part out of tolerance could be the problem.
yup, i have done a lot of work with them over the years, their lead gunsmith is great and they have always seemed to take care of business from my experiences anyway... gotta remember too, they do not make these, someone else does and they import them. so they might no be aware of little issues here and there and need to know that so they can let the manufacturer know to tweak the process a bit.
Good luck my friend. Sounds like a warranty issue. Also it appears to have some great accuracy potential! Hope this can be resolved. God bless all here.
Comiketiger- please don’t respond to the above comment from the 346-306 number, it is not Buffalo and it’s not a real giveaway. I found out the hard way.😡
That is a bummer. I just got a Heritage that is giving trouble. Found a big piece of metal loose in behind the hand this afternoon leftover from machining I think. I guess if we buy enough of them we will get a lemon now and then. Great video as always Buffalo.
Buffalo, you always try to find the best in the firearms you review. You always give a very fair review and obviously there are issues here that can't be totally overlooked. Thanks brother. 👍
It seems like one of the chambers in the cylinder may be slightly off from the other four because it’s very consistent only one round is tumbling so I think one of your chambers is probably messed up
My pops has a S&W 38spl revolver from when he entered the police academy about 1962 and it has never failed and he probably cleaned it 10 times over the years ... guess they don't make them like that anymore ...
Hope to see you shootin a new magnum n record your first shots for us. I was just lookin into RIA 22 magnums. Im just now gettin my gransons n great gransons into shootin. Enjoy your vids
Hi Buffalo, wow that is a strange problem. Wonder if the lock up and timing are out of wack. One thing is for sure it's the gun with all the ammo you used! I thank you for your honesty with the review. Keep us informed on what happens and if you find out what the problem was.
Back in the early 70’s the S&W mod 19 had issues with the cylinder seizing up when it was fired several times. Turned out that when the cylinder got warm from shooting it rubbed the forcing cone. The tolerance was so close. Fixed problem by filing the cone down to ease the tolerance. Maybe that’s the problem….maybe not.
hopefully you passed this video on to the manufacturer or at least made them aware of the problems. I watch your videos and you are an experienced gun guy and a VERY good shot.
It is statistically odd the number of times you had exactly 1 flyer in a 5 shot group. Makes me think it's somehow related to cylinder rotation. Like there's some play when you close the cylinder which means it will index badly within 180° of rotation. Because if it was just a 20 percent failure rate, you wouldn't have such consistency. I suspect what's really happening is it almost always fails once in the first half turn of the cylinder.
It sounds like there are multiple problems including a bent ejection rod, a timing issue, and a bad trigger return spring or like the other follow suggested, "the gun is haunted." I'm sorry you had to deal with it but I do appreciate the warning!
I had the same problem with my muzzleloader. It turned out to be too much lead in the rifling would cause some of the lead bullets to fail to engage the rifling and keyhole. Others would be right on target. So my guess is the barrel on your revolver could have shallow rifling which fails to stabilize some of the bullets.
I have a new RIA 38 special. I wanted a nightstand gun, and at $249 this was an easy choice. After 100 rounds I’ve noticed no problems, but this video has caused me concern. I intend to swap mine in for a Ruger 32 magnum. Same capacity from a reliable company.
Hope you can fix it or get it fixed! Looks like it would be a nice revolver if it would work! Maybe the spring inside the handle is loose or something minor that needs tightened/adjusted! I know they make a 22WMR 1911 that isn't a good one to get, maybe RIA just don't do 22 magnum well! Good luck! Thanks for sharing!
I'm sure it's your linkage that pushes your cylinder into locking position for next round, a flaw in timing , where cylinder and push rod is not catching, and misses and extends to far and binds cylinder.
That was really strange that all shots but one were on target, it looked like it was like more than 4 inches away too. I was totally gonna suggest to mark the cylinder that shot wild. Kudos to you for that.
Is it possible that there is a bunch of "grit" in the storage grease in the fire controls. Maybe you could clean it out with some aerosol CLP or degreaser and then re-oil? I hope you get it sorted out to your satisfaction. I saw something sort of similar with a firing ping failing to strike the primer, because the guy thought he could just run his new rifle ( less than 1 hour as the owner) without cleaning out any of the shipping grease. After about 20 rounds he started getting light primer strikes and after less than 40 rounds the firing pin and BCG were essentially glued together. I broke down his BCG and cleaned it up for him but noticed the grease was "gritty". The grit was brown in color, which threw me off my original thought of unburned powder. I think it may have been a fine sand or coarse dust like from cardboard. I was happy to see he had no metal shavings yet. I use lint free white polyester cloth for my cleanings so I can see stuff like this and better understand what caused my issue or if i have metal shavings anywhere.
Yeah Rock Island will definitely help you Buffalo, there pretty good with there warranty service, I lost a part for my 1911 and the sent me two replacements no charge.
Great video. I would find the chamber that is producing the key holes, it must be the chamber, because the barrel stays the same, the only thing that changes is the chambers when the cylinder turns. I would guess that the chamber that is the problem is a bit on the large side as to be letting the bullet strike the side of the forcing cone cutting a piece of the bullet off as to make it wabble, just my guess.I made my comment before I watched the whole video, with all of the problems going on with this gun it must be the gun it's self, a lemon ?
I can't tell by looking at the video, but does that revolver even have a forcing cone. Years ago I bought a Rossi model 518 22 lr double action revolver that was spitting lead real bad. Turns out it had left the factory without the forcing cone being cut. I went to Brownell's website and bought the tool to cut a forcing cone. The Rossi is a good, non lead spitting revolver now.
If your gun shop will trade it for another one, I believe I'd go for that and see if the next one has the same problems. You can get a lemon with any gun. I recently had it happen with a Bersa Thunder Plus. (15+1), It fell apart and stopped working on the second magazine ever in it and I couldn't even get that magazine out of the gun. Sure, it was a problem with the goofy magazine safety. (Why they ever put one of those on any gun is beyond me). Took it back to my dealer, Fort Scott Gun and Pawn and they did me right and traded it for the Regular Bersa Thunder (8+1) they had in stock, and it works wonderfully. It shoots and functions perfectly. Very accurate and a joy to shoot. We are talking .380acp here by the way.
I think the problem is in the internal lockwork. It could be a burr, a small part that is out of spec, a bent or damaged part, or a combination of these. The lockwork issue could be causing the random cylinder timing issue. Opening the cylinder to load/unload will cause a random chamber to be first in line each time. This is why all chambers will be marked as “bad” eventually. You were right about that. The key holing is caused from a bullet entering the forcing cone crooked. Another cause could be a slightly bent cylinder pin, or an out of spec hole through the cylinder axis. This could explain why the cylinder sometimes won't lock up tight. I hope you get a satisfactory resolution for these issues.
I have a 6 inch model in stainless. The keyhole target says it doesn't like the ammo. I have great results with Winchester dyna points with 8 shot groups of one and a quarter inch at 31 yards, which is about match box size. CCI Maxi mag hollow points shoots one or two on the target and some others keyholes more than a foot away form the target at 15 yards. The revolver simply wont stabilize the bullet. I tried to sand them to a smaller overall length but that too did not help, so I guess its the bearing surface of the bullet that doesn't lend itself to be stabilized by the twist. The lockup of the trigger and so forth could just be the trigger return spring that gets jammed one way or another. Open it, clean it and check the workings when open. These are great revolvers with excellent machining, but like any other rimfire you have to find the ammo that works.........
I think you have a cylinder that wasn't drilled straight. The round in the faulty cylinder when fired hits the forcing cone and loses stability when it leaves the barrel. I had a similar issue with a ruger but in .357, had to send it back.
I had the same keyhole problem with a Ruger Wrangler. I sent it back to Ruger and they replaced the revolver. I don't know what the problem was but they said it wasn't repairable.
I had the same problem with a .22 revolver made by Heritage (Taurus). Sent it back to them and they said the frame was out of wack, they then destroyed it and sent me a new one.
It is binding up so the regular timing issue might be cured by something as simple as a dip in a gunshop's ultrasonic solvent tank for a thorough cleaning, and a re-lube. It's new, there may be an errant chip or other debris somewhere in the action.
I would contact RIA (Pahrump, NV). In my experience with warranty they were outstanding. One of my 1911's had ejection & cycling issues. They emailed me a FedEx 2nd Day label, and 2nd Day back...they had it back in my hands repaired in literally 10 days (including shipping time). It's been flawless since. The revolvers I'm not so sure of, but my experience with their services exceeded my expectations. Maybe it's an opportunity for both you & them? I'd sure be interested in the 22 mag version...one that doesn't keyhole that is. Let us know how it goes, and thanks for the video.
Buffalo, Thanks for the "Buyer Beware" on this pistol, I believe that it takes a special person to come back to a product that once was given the "It's a good deal" review and let people know that it wasn't such a great product. all too many times people have touted the "Best deal ever" and after a while, with normal or limited use the thing turns into a ruble faster than you can un-ruble it. falling apart, jamming, and undue fouling are all signs of a pistol made in a country where its own citizens can't own them because their Government believes "It's for the Greater good". in the end, people suffer, and not just people of that country, people who buy their products no matter what it is all over the globe. -Dave
I had a 22lr double action revolver once upon a time that was intermittently having some of the same issues and finally found that it was unburned or partially burned powder flakes getting between the cylinder face and the extractor star and not allowing the extractor star to fully seat. This was enough to cause the double action trigger pull to seemingly double or triple in pull weight and tie up or almost tie up the cylinder when I tried to unlatch and swing out the cylinder. Started carrying cotton swabs to the range to wipe the cylinder face and under side of the star whenever the problem occurred and this always fixed the problem for that particular revolver. Probably not the cause of YOUR problem but just my 2 cents.
The barrel unscrewed itself on my and started rattling around. I bought it used and polished the seer, so it's mine. That an we can't register any new handguns any more in Canada, so it's mine.
My RIA M206 the cylinder shroud stuck out too far and would catch on the rim of the next round coming around. And I about always get 1 light primer strike per cylinder. So the "6-shot" is a 5-shot. Its all depends on who did them at the factory.
Makes me think there’s a timing issue, or one chamber is out of center. I think running full cylinder groups would give a much better picture, and it would explain why almost all have a flyer with some groups are solid
If I had to guess without looking, (accuracy wise)I would say you have a timing problem . The fact that it has some obvious lock work issues kinda confirms that. Hand may be binding on the ratchet, bolt may not be locking; etc. Only has to be off a tiny bit. Unlike a 6 shot…8,9,10 shot 22 revolvers have a lot going on in a very short arc. Probably needs a good deburring. Just my 2 cents. Love your videos btw👍
I have fired approximately 600 rounds through my AL9 without any issues. I really enjoy range time with this model. Hopefully it continues to perform without any problems.
Your sample must have been made on a Wednesday. Stinks you're having all these issues. Hopefully Rock Island will make it right. I'm glad you have a couple different options.
I have this gun. And so far, I haven't experienced any of these issues. I have two 22 mag revolvers, and both do not cycle, browning ammo, apparently the rims on the ammo. Is thicker than other brands, and tends to bind between the cylinder and the frame! the other gun is a ruger! I hope it works out for ya!
Odd. That seems to be something I would expect from my NAA Minis, which don't have the greatest grown and prefer some grain weights of ammo over others. It seems to me that there is an out of spec chamber throat that is messing up one round.
That's what I was thinking too but after I started marking each chamber that gave me a keyhole on the target it turned out to be random. I had high hopes for it since the 22lr version does so well.
I'm always here for a Buffalo revolver review, but OUCH! A bore problem (oversize/undersize) would tend to affect more than one shot in five. Twist rate would affect one bullet weight more than others. The mechanical issues are bad enough in themselves. Too much to sort out, Buffalo. Send it back. 👍 PS I appreciate the honesty of your reports!
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
I would love to hear an update on this revolver when you have something to report. I don’t know anyone who has had to deal with RIA customer service department before. Keep up posted Buffalo! Love all your videos!
Me too!
me too
About 3 years ago I had to have my dealer return a M1911 XT .22 WMR pistol shortly after purchase due to numerous light primer strikes, failures to feed, and failures to eject. After about a month RIA sent me a new pistol which is almost 100% reliable. I was pleased with their customer service. I am a big fan of the .22 WMR, shooting primarily Punch and Federal Game Shok 50 grain bullets, and the CCI 40 grain offerings.
Me too.
Me too
Sounds like RIA needs to offer you a quick rebuild or replacement. You are too good a shooter for that type and quantity of inaccurate stuff. Also, thanks for the honesty. They are tools and some are simply not going to work. It will be interesting to see how RIA handles this imperfect version.
I had the same problem with my R.I.A. model 206 38 revolver. I sent my back to R.I.A. with in 3 weeks I had my gun back fully repaired. Good luck Buffalo.
I wonder if maybe one chamber in the cylinder is bad. Edit: I see you addressed that later in the video.
you said it b4 I could. that's not just a Keyhole that's in 2-3 pieces
The Pistol also has a mechanical binding with its internal lockwork, (The hammer gets stuck Cocked to the rear), and the cylinder release latch doesn't catch allowing the cylinder to disengage and swing out and open. Now, granted, this pistol isn't a Smith&Wesson Mod-17, however, it is modeled after one, it also incorporates some parts resembling a Charter Arms revolver. overall, it is an attempt to go after a consumer group that seeks budget-priced firearms, and that's great, however, the product must function trouble-free right out of the box it came in to meet VALUE.
I was thinking my the same thing. Probably coming from the same chamber in Cylinder. Need to mark that chamber when it comes up.
I had a Smith & Wesson Model 64 do the same thing with the locking up and everything oiled it and it took care of it
I think it is haunted. That's the only thing that makes sense.
HAHA! You might be on to something!
... because rifling makes everything better
Bent/flawed ejector rod...lopsided rotation
Are you saying this could be a ghost gun? Is that what these leftists are scared of that I keep hearing about? Haunted guns?
Exactly!
Please keep doing reviews like you are. It's important to show the real world conditions in which you're shooting. Sometimes stuff malfunctions. Have the same gun and haven't had this issue, but I noticed that it's taking a while to break in. Thanks for showing us your experience and let us know how RIA treats you. Good luck!
Brother, I'm so very sorry you're having to deal with that. What a shame on rock islands part. Man, I've never seen this yet on a 22 mag pistol. Surely you would think RIA would own up and correct the issues. I hope they do make it right. Appreciate the video! God bless you and the family
IMO (and without inspecting it myself) I believe that due to the fact that you are able to shoot some very nice groups but then have an Un stabilized bullet regardless of the chamber it fired from it must be a timing issue that is random in nature. We saw the cylinder lock, unlock, remain unlocked or locked even though it would appear that the cylinder was put into battery correctly. This tells me that when the cylinder fired shoots the bullet un stabilized that the cylinder was under or over rotated (not properly aligned with the barrel) If it were a barrel crown issue all the groups would be poor, and you would not have just 1 out of 5 un stabilized. If it were an oversized bore, all the groups would be poor, and you would not have just 1 out of 5 un stabilized. If 1 of the chambers was too tight or too loose then only that chamber would produce the un stabilized round. If all of the chambers were too tight or too lose it would result in all of the bullets being un stabilized or every group would be large. You wouldn't be able to produce the tight clusters we see in some of the groups. Something is very wrong inside that revolver
He takes the words right out of my mouth. (With 55 years of experience! Yes I was shooting S&W .22 lr. and .38 spl. with my dad). This sounds likely. Be sure to let us know.
The first thing I thought, if this man is having issues with a weapon, its DEFINITELY the weapon!
All of us have seen you put many, many, many items through their paces. If there is one thing we all can agree on, if you say the gun has issues, no one here would ever think to argue with you!
The next thing that crossed my mind.... Monday morning or a late on Friday gun in production!😆😄
I, like others are really curious how RIA is going to resolve this for you! Please keep us in the loop Amigo!
Donny Armstrong, do not respond to this comment from the 306-346 number. it’s not a giveaway and it’s not Buffalo. I just figured this out the hard way. 😡
I think it's a timing and spacing issue with the cylinder. the cylinder is not always lining up with the barrel because of that.
Yep. Out of time probably
Thought the same thing, but if that were so, how come he has a tighter group with the other fired rounds, but has one that keyholes? If it was the timing, wouldn't it affect more than one round?
Not a gunsmith, but maybe the chambers aren't evenly spaced in the cylinder. Or the pawl and notches advancing the cylinder are out of whack. I wouldn't want to shoot this until the problem is fixed. Imagine if it was a .44, .500 S&W, etc, a keyholing bullet would be the least of your concerns.
@@brianscott7366 I agree, I think that weapon has a serious problem and I wouldn't settle for anything less than a full replacement, or my money back. Oh gosh, a 44 or 500? I wouldn't want to imagine.
Hello Buffalo, looking forward to watching this video, thank you for sharing it with us
Awesome Buffalo, thanks for sharing sir!🤘🏽
I've had experience with RIA 1911 and they were real good and quick in responding. The importer I believe is Amscor in Nevada.
Wow! Do some of these manufacturers not test what they make before they go to market? And this model is on the high end of MSRP for a 22WMR revolver. I honestly don't know what I'm going to buy for a 22 magnum revolver. Some of the ones I wanted, you can't find and some of the ones I find that are available, are no bueno. That's a shame, because it's really good looking. Thanks for saving me some money with your honest review.
Send R.I.A. the revolver and a link to your video. It’s great that your gun shop owner is such a stand-up guy that he wants to make it right, but honestly, it’s not his fault. And it would make for a great follow-up video to show how they handle it, either by repair or replacement. They should also send you some ammo that they recommend using in it. It’s the least they can do. And perhaps a holster.....Thanks for sharing, we’re all watching to see how they take care of you.
Thank you for this review. While this one wasn't pleasant, your follow-up video of RIA's customer service AND the performance of the repaired/replacement weapon will be very important. Again, many thanks.
i did some testing and stuff with one of these last year and ended up having an issue where the cylinder would lock up. after a little looking, it was obviously a cylinder stop issue. i talked with the gunsmith over at RIA, who has always been helpful and he told me how the cylinder stop was designed. i took everything aparts (the clylinder stop contains a spring, plunger, etc), cleaned it all out, put it back together and never had an issue again. my guess is that there was some machining shavings or gunk or something that worked it's way in the wrong spot. i never experienced any other weird issues with the one i had over the oh i would say 2K rounds put through it for testing, various ammo. that said, things can have problems... i am usually one of those lucky people who seem to always find the ones that work great.
oh, duh moment but just remembered the one i played with was the 22LR... hmm.
Even if it is the 22 lr version you have experience with, I'm guessing his cure wouldn't be too far off. Better than my suggestion of an out of spec outside Cylinder diameter or circumference
~ 10:37.... Your INTEGRITY is UNQUESTIONED as far as any Metric I KNOW....
You are ALWAYS HAPPY to show a Great Product and fair 4 in all Judgements....
You even Hi Lighted the Glock 22 lr Failures and tried to give them a Chance!!!
That's why GUN Channel Groupies Love your style!!!
Did I MAKE it on time and do it Right!!!!
I'll still be a fan but PLEASE let me be in the Drawing!!!!
You answered all my questions in the video. I see Clover Tac chimed in with a suggestion. Tough call.
Thanks Buff for another good ol' down home review. Been seriously considering this gun, but believe I'll holt off for a spell and see if they improve things.
Wolff Zambelli-please do not respond to this comment from the 346-306 number above, it’s not Buffalo and it’s not a real giveaway. I found out the hard way.😡
I've had trouble with a couple of revolvers and the shops where I bought them sent them back with no cost to me. It took a while for each gun, but they came back fixed. I hope your shop and your manufacturer take care of this for you. Everyone can mess something up but the response to a problem show the difference in service.
Thats a strange one. Hope you get it figured out. If you do please do a follow up video. Thanks for the honest review.
Well... That's one off my list...
Been wanting an Inexpensive 22 mag Revolver,,,,
BIG HOPES for the Diamond Back Sidekick...
When I experienced binding of the cylinder as you demonstrated, I found 2 causes. The revolvers were S&W. The 1st was a partially unscrewed ejector rod. The 2nd was caused by unburnt powder particles underneath the ejector star. I first had serious doubts concerning the quality of R.I.A revolvers when viewing a video by Justin Opinion. In the video it could be seen that the revolver was constructed with a 2 piece sleeve & shroud method. The shroud had a cheap, poorly fitted appearance with a gap visible around the muzzle. The lock work & severe accuracy problem is much more serious. Good luck on getting the problem straightened out.
I thought that since it was only one out of every 5 or so shots, it might be a deformed or misaligned cylinder bore. However you were already checking that and painting those each time you had a keyhole. Now I think it is one or more interior components that are loose, broken or defective that affect the timing and are causing occasional misaligned cylinder bores and also locking up your trigger. Very strange, indeed.
You might be right it makes more sense being out of time somewhat. I'll let RIA sort it out (hopefully).
IMO; 1 chamber is mis-aligned just enough to cause the actual bullet to enter the leade of the rifling, thus causing a "yaw" entrance. The exit will vary slightly each time, thus each "key-hole" will not be exactly same area on target, but will consistently be off group. Short: replace cylinder/ problem likely solved. IMO. Scrap this idea!!! That gun is CURSED!! Maybe try exorcism!?!
I agree.
@@buffalosoutdoors it's the ejector rod that is loose. That's why it locks up and is out of time. Needs to be screwed down with locktite. You may also have a bad spring in the cylinder stop.
@@buffalosoutdoors any feedback from the RIA customer service department?
I like the shelter you put up. Surprised you didn't do that long time ago. I don't see any boiled peanuts on the table next to your soda. lol I really enjoy watching your videos. Keep up the great work.
The ejector rod worked it's way out. Had that happen to me 25 years ago with a Smith and Wesson .357 model 66.
Looks like RIA needs to replace your revolver. Like you said, it’s a sample of one so you have to give RIA a chance to make it right. Great demonstration of the issue Buffalo. Thanks again for another honest review.
Possible metal shavings in the action could cause both a timing problem and the lockup. I'd remove the grip and then flush the action with Breakfree CLP in a spray can. This might get the the shavings out if there are any. Also try working the action with the grip removed. Sometimes grips can cause problems, Good luck.
I’d love to see a follow up video to see how you decided to handle it 👍
I would mark the cylinder with the sharpie on the one that keyholed and see if it’s the same chamber that key holds every time
I’ve had the same thing occur with a Heritage Rough Rider 22 after just over 500 rounds. By 600 rounds it started to keyhole about 90% of shots. It’s a bummer for sure when this happens, but cheaper guns can have these issues i’ve found.
I'm glad that I read this comment before I commented. I bought the Heritage Rough Rider 4 3/4" barrel a few months ago, and the first couple of times that I fired the magnum rounds, I was getting mostly keyholes. The .22LR was fine, and accurate, but I haven't shot any more magnum rounds since. I thought it might have to do with the twist rate. My 6 1/2" Heritage is fine with the magnum rounds. All of the screws were very loose, so I have used thread locking on all of them.
@@seanomeirs8362 mine is a 4-3/4” barrel as well and came with both LR and Mag cylinders. It fired both LR’s and Mags with pin point accuracy out of the box. Timing is good, but something is up with the barrel.
I bought a second Heritage with both cylinders. The 22lr was way off to one side, as were many other video channels reviews, but the 22Mags would not even hit the target at 10 feet. Two shooter and the same result. I sent it back, Taurus destroyed the gun and sent a replacement after several months. The new one is still in the box as I don't care about shooting it any longer. I have another an it was fine. I am done with these cheap guns.
Any update on this?
Give RIA's warranty department a chance to make it good. As complicated as the mechanics are in a revolver one part out of tolerance could be the problem.
yup, i have done a lot of work with them over the years, their lead gunsmith is great and they have always seemed to take care of business from my experiences anyway... gotta remember too, they do not make these, someone else does and they import them. so they might no be aware of little issues here and there and need to know that so they can let the manufacturer know to tweak the process a bit.
Good luck my friend. Sounds like a warranty issue. Also it appears to have some great accuracy potential! Hope this can be resolved.
God bless all here.
Comiketiger- please don’t respond to the above comment from the 346-306 number, it is not Buffalo and it’s not a real giveaway. I found out the hard way.😡
That is a bummer. I just got a Heritage that is giving trouble. Found a big piece of metal loose in behind the hand this afternoon leftover from machining I think. I guess if we buy enough of them we will get a lemon now and then. Great video as always Buffalo.
Buffalo, you always try to find the best in the firearms you review. You always give a very fair review and obviously there are issues here that can't be totally overlooked. Thanks brother. 👍
Thank you. Bummer
It seems like one of the chambers in the cylinder may be slightly off from the other four because it’s very consistent only one round is tumbling so I think one of your chambers is probably messed up
Thank you for warning us about this problem child. Really appreciate your opinions.
My pops has a S&W 38spl revolver from when he entered the police academy about 1962 and it has never failed and he probably cleaned it 10 times over the years ... guess they don't make them like that anymore ...
Hope to see you shootin a new magnum n record your first shots for us. I was just lookin into RIA 22 magnums. Im just now gettin my gransons n great gransons into shootin. Enjoy your vids
Hi Buffalo, wow that is a strange problem. Wonder if the lock up and timing are out of wack. One thing is for sure it's the gun with all the ammo you used! I thank you for your honesty with the review. Keep us informed on what happens and if you find out what the problem was.
Back in the early 70’s the S&W mod 19 had issues with the cylinder seizing up when it was fired several times. Turned out that when the cylinder got warm from shooting it rubbed the forcing cone. The tolerance was so close. Fixed problem by filing the cone down to ease the tolerance. Maybe that’s the problem….maybe not.
hopefully you passed this video on to the manufacturer or at least made them aware of the problems. I watch your videos and you are an experienced gun guy and a VERY good shot.
Yes he is. I didn't know how to shoot real accurately in double action until I watched his videos. I've been doing it wrong for at least 50 years.
It is statistically odd the number of times you had exactly 1 flyer in a 5 shot group. Makes me think it's somehow related to cylinder rotation. Like there's some play when you close the cylinder which means it will index badly within 180° of rotation.
Because if it was just a 20 percent failure rate, you wouldn't have such consistency. I suspect what's really happening is it almost always fails once in the first half turn of the cylinder.
It sounds like there are multiple problems including a bent ejection rod, a timing issue, and a bad trigger return spring or like the other follow suggested, "the gun is haunted."
I'm sorry you had to deal with it but I do appreciate the warning!
I had the same problem with my muzzleloader. It turned out to be too much lead in the rifling would cause some of the lead bullets to fail to engage the rifling and keyhole. Others would be right on target. So my guess is the barrel on your revolver could have shallow rifling which fails to stabilize some of the bullets.
Good honest review as always.I think if that was mine,I'd send it in and when it was returned,,use it as a trade in.
I'd send that thing over to Target Suite. He had a similar problem with a Single Six. It was quite impressive to see him get to the bottom of it.
I have a new RIA 38 special. I wanted a nightstand gun, and at $249 this was an easy choice. After 100 rounds I’ve noticed no problems, but this video has caused me concern. I intend to swap mine in for a Ruger 32 magnum. Same capacity from a reliable company.
Best sold as an April Fool's joke....
Hope you can fix it or get it fixed! Looks like it would be a nice revolver if it would work! Maybe the spring inside the handle is loose or something minor that needs tightened/adjusted! I know they make a 22WMR 1911 that isn't a good one to get, maybe RIA just don't do 22 magnum well! Good luck! Thanks for sharing!
something is definitely sticking
I'm sure it's your linkage that pushes your cylinder into locking position for next round, a flaw in timing , where cylinder and push rod is not catching, and misses and extends to far and binds cylinder.
Cylinder timing is off, occasionally not lining up true to bore
I hope we get an update on this gun later. I need closure lol. I figured it was out of time but the locking up is weird for that. 🤔
That was really strange that all shots but one were on target, it looked like it was like more than 4 inches away too. I was totally gonna suggest to mark the cylinder that shot wild. Kudos to you for that.
Good show. Thanks for the info. You are the best.
Is it possible that there is a bunch of "grit" in the storage grease in the fire controls. Maybe you could clean it out with some aerosol CLP or degreaser and then re-oil? I hope you get it sorted out to your satisfaction.
I saw something sort of similar with a firing ping failing to strike the primer, because the guy thought he could just run his new rifle ( less than 1 hour as the owner) without cleaning out any of the shipping grease. After about 20 rounds he started getting light primer strikes and after less than 40 rounds the firing pin and BCG were essentially glued together. I broke down his BCG and cleaned it up for him but noticed the grease was "gritty". The grit was brown in color, which threw me off my original thought of unburned powder. I think it may have been a fine sand or coarse dust like from cardboard. I was happy to see he had no metal shavings yet.
I use lint free white polyester cloth for my cleanings so I can see stuff like this and better understand what caused my issue or if i have metal shavings anywhere.
Yeah Rock Island will definitely help you Buffalo, there pretty good with there warranty service, I lost a part for my 1911 and the sent me two replacements no charge.
Great video. I would find the chamber that is producing the key holes, it must be the chamber, because the barrel stays the same, the only thing that changes is the chambers when the cylinder turns. I would guess that the chamber that is the problem is a bit on the large side as to be letting the bullet strike the side of the forcing cone cutting a piece of the bullet off as to make it wabble, just my guess.I made my comment before I watched the whole video, with all of the problems going on with this gun it must be the gun it's self, a lemon ?
I can't tell by looking at the video, but does that revolver even have a forcing cone. Years ago I bought a Rossi model 518 22 lr double action revolver that was spitting lead real bad. Turns out it had left the factory without the forcing cone being cut. I went to Brownell's website and bought the tool to cut a forcing cone. The Rossi is a good, non lead spitting revolver now.
If your gun shop will trade it for another one, I believe I'd go for that and see if the next one has the same problems. You can get a lemon with any gun. I recently had it happen with a Bersa Thunder Plus. (15+1), It fell apart and stopped working on the second magazine ever in it and I couldn't even get that magazine out of the gun. Sure, it was a problem with the goofy magazine safety. (Why they ever put one of those on any gun is beyond me). Took it back to my dealer, Fort Scott Gun and Pawn and they did me right and traded it for the Regular Bersa Thunder (8+1) they had in stock, and it works wonderfully. It shoots and functions perfectly. Very accurate and a joy to shoot. We are talking .380acp here by the way.
Crazy gun it would be interesting to find out exactly what's wrong with it thanks for the video I hope no one else gets a hold of one of those things
I think the problem is in the internal lockwork. It could be a burr, a small part that is out of spec, a bent or damaged part, or a combination of these. The lockwork issue could be causing the random cylinder timing issue. Opening the cylinder to load/unload will cause a random chamber to be first in line each time. This is why all chambers will be marked as “bad” eventually. You were right about that. The key holing is caused from a bullet entering the forcing cone crooked. Another cause could be a slightly bent cylinder pin, or an out of spec hole through the cylinder axis. This could explain why the cylinder sometimes won't lock up tight. I hope you get a satisfactory resolution for these issues.
Even I shot you in your head you can't kill
I have a 6 inch model in stainless. The keyhole target says it doesn't like the ammo. I have great results with Winchester dyna points with 8 shot groups of one and a quarter inch at 31 yards, which is about match box size. CCI Maxi mag hollow points shoots one or two on the target and some others keyholes more than a foot away form the target at 15 yards. The revolver simply wont stabilize the bullet. I tried to sand them to a smaller overall length but that too did not help, so I guess its the bearing surface of the bullet that doesn't lend itself to be stabilized by the twist. The lockup of the trigger and so forth could just be the trigger return spring that gets jammed one way or another. Open it, clean it and check the workings when open. These are great revolvers with excellent machining, but like any other rimfire you have to find the ammo that works.........
I think you have a cylinder that wasn't drilled straight. The round in the faulty cylinder when fired hits the forcing cone and loses stability when it leaves the barrel. I had a similar issue with a ruger but in .357, had to send it back.
Looking forward to a follow- up video, thanks.
I had the same keyhole problem with a Ruger Wrangler. I sent it back to Ruger and they replaced the revolver. I don't know what the problem was but they said it wasn't repairable.
I had the same problem with a .22 revolver made by Heritage (Taurus). Sent it back to them and they said the frame was out of wack, they then destroyed it and sent me a new one.
It is binding up so the regular timing issue might be cured by something as simple as a dip in a gunshop's ultrasonic solvent tank for a thorough cleaning, and a re-lube. It's new, there may be an errant chip or other debris somewhere in the action.
My question is the round that key hole is coming out of the same hole from the cylinder
I would contact RIA (Pahrump, NV). In my experience with warranty they were outstanding. One of my 1911's had ejection & cycling issues. They emailed me a FedEx 2nd Day label, and 2nd Day back...they had it back in my hands repaired in literally 10 days (including shipping time). It's been flawless since. The revolvers I'm not so sure of, but my experience with their services exceeded my expectations. Maybe it's an opportunity for both you & them? I'd sure be interested in the 22 mag version...one that doesn't keyhole that is. Let us know how it goes, and thanks for the video.
Yes there warranty department is awesome, I've dealt with them and no complaints at all!!
Buffalo, Thanks for the "Buyer Beware" on this pistol, I believe that it takes a special person to come back to a product that once was given the "It's a good deal" review and let people know that it wasn't such a great product. all too many times people have touted the "Best deal ever" and after a while, with normal or limited use the thing turns into a ruble faster than you can un-ruble it. falling apart, jamming, and undue fouling are all signs of a pistol made in a country where its own citizens can't own them because their Government believes "It's for the Greater good". in the end, people suffer, and not just people of that country, people who buy their products no matter what it is all over the globe. -Dave
Thor’s Axe- Do not respond to this comment from the 346-306 number, it is not a giveaway and it’s not Buffalo. I just figured this out the hard way. 😡
I had a 22lr double action revolver once upon a time that was intermittently having some of the same issues and finally found that it was unburned or partially burned powder flakes getting between the cylinder face and the extractor star and not allowing the extractor star to fully seat.
This was enough to cause the double action trigger pull to seemingly double or triple in pull weight and tie up or almost tie up the cylinder when I tried to unlatch and swing out the cylinder.
Started carrying cotton swabs to the range to wipe the cylinder face and under side of the star whenever the problem occurred and this always fixed the problem for that particular revolver.
Probably not the cause of YOUR problem but just my 2 cents.
Was there any lead shavings flying out of the cylinder gap causing lockup....
The barrel unscrewed itself on my and started rattling around.
I bought it used and polished the seer, so it's mine. That an we can't register any new handguns any more in Canada, so it's mine.
Please give us a follow up on what you decide to do with this RIA AL22MB WMR revolver. Curious of what the actual problem is and the fix.
My RIA M206 the cylinder shroud stuck out too far and would catch on the rim of the next round coming around. And I about always get 1 light primer strike per cylinder. So the "6-shot" is a 5-shot. Its all depends on who did them at the factory.
Makes me think there’s a timing issue, or one chamber is out of center.
I think running full cylinder groups would give a much better picture, and it would explain why almost all have a flyer with some groups are solid
I think that there may be something screwy with .22 Mag revolvers in general. I have a Charter Arms Pathfinder snubby in .22 Mag and it keyhole too!
I looked on the ria web site and that firearm was not listed.
I would recommend contacting RIA customer service and sending a link to this video. Hopefully they’ll correct this issue.
If I had to guess without looking, (accuracy wise)I would say you have a timing problem . The fact that it has some obvious lock work issues kinda confirms that. Hand may be binding on the ratchet, bolt may not be locking; etc. Only has to be off a tiny bit. Unlike a 6 shot…8,9,10 shot 22 revolvers have a lot going on in a very short arc. Probably needs a good deburring. Just my 2 cents. Love your videos btw👍
I was looking at the Al9. Think I may go with the charter arms 9 after seeing this. Thanks.
I have fired approximately 600 rounds through my AL9 without any issues. I really enjoy range time with this model. Hopefully it continues to perform without any problems.
Your sample must have been made on a Wednesday. Stinks you're having all these issues. Hopefully Rock Island will make it right. I'm glad you have a couple different options.
I would also love an update when there is one. RIA would be crazy not to deal with this problem - fast .
I have this gun. And so far, I haven't experienced any of these issues. I have two 22 mag revolvers, and both do not cycle, browning ammo, apparently the rims on the ammo. Is thicker than other brands, and tends to bind between the cylinder and the frame! the other gun is a ruger! I hope it works out for ya!
Did you check to see if the ejector rod is loose?
Odd. That seems to be something I would expect from my NAA Minis, which don't have the greatest grown and prefer some grain weights of ammo over others. It seems to me that there is an out of spec chamber throat that is messing up one round.
That's what I was thinking too but after I started marking each chamber that gave me a keyhole on the target it turned out to be random. I had high hopes for it since the 22lr version does so well.
Your ejector rod is loose you can see the threads on the rod I have a Taurus 66 that will work loose and binds everything up.
I'm always here for a Buffalo revolver review, but OUCH! A bore problem (oversize/undersize) would tend to affect more than one shot in five. Twist rate would affect one bullet weight more than others. The mechanical issues are bad enough in themselves.
Too much to sort out, Buffalo. Send it back. 👍
PS I appreciate the honesty of your reports!
Gary K, DO NOT respond to this comment, it is not Buffalo and it’s not for real! There is no “Prize”
Yeah, they already withdrew it. Ridiculous scammers 😡
2 piece where the rod is? Shifting around causing keyholing and the lock up?🤔
I've got one and it's been flawless for 500 rounds thus far.
Dang Buffalo, I hope they can fix that thing.
It's locking up because the forcing cone accumulated lead on one side for shaving a bullet on a particular chamber (always the same).
you need to determine if it is a particular charge hole.
I'll be interested in seeing how RIA handles this problem.
Years ago I had a Smith and Wesson 22 revolver act similar to this. I also had a Taurus that was junk.
I see you mark the chambers as you went
A scammer come in here