tbh this whole thing feels very straight-woman red pill... guys have always been saying "girls only like douchebags, they don't want nice men who care for them so we need to stop being nice" and we clown them for that. so why is it true/good advice for women to not show genuine enthusiasm? to tone down their emotions to not scare off a man? idk though, im a lesbian
No it's 100% true. Watching the clips made me feel like I'm watching a bunch of female Andrew Tates. Stand up for yourself, be strong, have a bit of bite, sure. But I'd still like them to be a nice person, be generous & reciprocate my efforts instead of expecting me to constantly chase them. It's really just that simple. I feel like people will have a bad experience with a certain person or being a certain kind of person themselves and just sprint full tilt the opposite way. Just. Be. Normal...
I think the person here doesn't understands that the dream girl is a good lady, not a bitch, just a good lady who doesn't do what she does for idiots nor jackasses there just 'cause the girl is pretty much slutty easy, but rather because she doesn't does the thing for idiots around, just for you.
It's not that you're "too nice", it's that your niceness lacks intentionality. If you're always a door mat or always combative, it's gonna be a turn off. As a human we wield swords and shields, maturity is knowing when to use each properly.
THISS people are so one dimensional sometimes its like, yes i like a nice girl but at the same time knowing someone can misbehave (in a legal way hahahahah) its very fun and it keeps you in your toes
As a guy I feel like the guys being talked about aren’t necessarily the guys that are good for you 😂. But balance is definitely needed, and the book sounds like it makes good points, however I’m sure people will take it to the extremes 😂
Yea, I was thinking that’s probably not the best dude. I do think you shouldn’t be a doormat(that goes for anybody), should be able to focus on your life too and all, but also not seeming extremely hard to get. Like you said definitely need balance
Yea, as a guy, the guys who these girls wanted don't sound like the best tbh. Sounds like a blessing they didn't choose you. We as men are rewarded for our unchecked hyper-libidos and it's normalized that men are just 'like that'. Yes, there are dudes who love the chase and all that but, if you have to focus on the chase to get them, they probably arent people of substance tbh. A man who wants to invest his time and energy into you, will tell you. There are emotionally intelligent men who can say, "Im interested in you and Id like to pursue something". (Not as corny as that but u get meee). Could be a reach, but thats just my opinion. You may get his attention, but once you're settled into the 'relationship', when do you start being yourselves? You'll always be trying to 'hold him'. If someone likes you, you dont need to hold them . Also, that 'dream girl' with the popcorn sounds like a nightmare. Yes, I think its very attractive for a woman do her own thing and prioritize herself (as people should), but there should be a balance. It shouldnt be either you're throwing yourself at them or giving them sub-bare minimum. I'd like to close off by saying, "Courtship is fun". But lets not lose sight of the real reason why we're courting - companionship and life-long partnership. Call me crazy, but I dont think it's insane to: 1. Have a partner who prioritizes themselves but makes room for you as your relationship deepens while not having to choose between you and their own morals or integrity. 2. For you to show genuine interest and not worry about the 'formula' of keeping interest while understanding that you could do everything "right" on paper and still not 'get' the person because literally, 'to each their own' and you may not be for them and vise versa. They want casual, I don't. I should not try to make them think otherwise. 3. To enter into a relationship knowing who they are and what they desire within the relationship while knowing the same for yourself so there is more cohesion and less game playing.
@@coreyshaw18this is so true! My boyfriend and I are really stable because we don’t play mind games. We tend to both be emotionally mature on what we want. He’s not a huffy-puffy masculine guy and I’m not a dainty unreachable girl. We just try to be good people who want partnership that’s why security comes so natural
@@coreyshaw18This comment needs to be pinned. I hope women don’t take this book or this advice too seriously. Yeah, if you’re dating a dude that’s avoidant or a fuckboy, he’s gonna like the chase. But even then, they don’t realize when you make a man chase, resentment will grow and he will probably just fuck you or leave you. Why do you have to play mind games and map out a strategy to keep a man? This is a fraudulent relationship. If you’re a man of intentionality and purpose, this type of behavior will turn you off. Me, personally, I’m walking away from girls like this. I’m going to tell you one time that I like you and I would like to date you. If you show me you’re not interested or play games, goodbye.
3:58 , nah this is literally intro level manosphere talking points (about getting dates and into relationships) but from the other side. This is surreal
5:50 its less you being too available and more so we're in a generation where alot of people get spooked by you showing too much interest too quickly. For various reasons (as a generation) we're afraid of commitment. And i think part of it is the expectations that come with that commitment. But showing reciprocation and availability is appreciated by some of us. Just depends on the guy.
7:50 is just good advice in general 9:15 do women not also pursue things they desire???? Im confused. 12:35 i guarantee like 80% the average looking guys don't even think theyre an option. Personality and confidence plays a role yes, but theyre forgetting guys are their own people with their own flaws and insecurities lol. 15:00 ..... is this women adapting to the hot cold hot strategy used in pick up communities? 🤦♂️ could be so many different reasons for one word answers. 1. He dont care 2. He doesnt like talking over text or is reallly bad at it. Etc. 23:50 people can't read minds. If you don't ask for what you want how will we know? Giving hints can work sometimes but wont work most of the time.
Theres some good advice mixed in with alot of nonsense and suggestions which are right but for the wrong reasons. If you cant stand up for yourself, voice your opinions or say "no" its gonna lead to your life feeling unfulfilled cuz youre meeting someone elses needs but they arent meeting yours. And sometimes its your fault for not communicating your needs. If you did communicate them (and i mean communicating unambiguously them not hinting or being passive aggressive) and they still arent responded to, then you have your answer. This person either doesnt care about your needs or is unable to fulfill them. (Pay attention to their consistent actions not their words) On the other hand, the dream girl/bad boy rhetoric is also fucking shit up for alot of us. Cuz now we got alot of people who think that their partner will lose interest if they show that they care or put in too much effort. If you like cooking and want to make a whole ass meal for your partner, do that. Different guys will respond to it differently. But will be guys that appreciate the effort you put in. If the yatcht interests you, go to the yatcht party. Don't become a charictature of yourself to impress someone else because you wont be able to maintain it. Youll be unhappy and you'll traumatize the other person when the mask comes off. Thank you for coming to my tedtalk
Men aren't born chasers, we're told to be this way. I get nothing out of the chase. As an introvert, going after women exhausts me. Women don't always give obvious signs of attraction, so men are quick to give up and move on. We don't want to appear creepy or desperate either. I value honesty and being upfront above all. Women are allowed to pursue or chase as well. Why can't we meet in the middle? There is some truth to "the nice girl." If she has no backbone, nothing going for herself, too one note, then she's boring. But having a genuinely nice girl who's not playing games with you and is interesting is amazing.
Kinda agree as a female. My ex really liked me, he was immature though, but he really chased me to the point of obsession and told me it was because i was nice and interesting at the same time and he will never find sb like me. Those words made me want him back for quite some time, but he really did not know how relationships worked, even though he was much older than me. It took me a while to not be with him because i felt like he was a child who wanted to learn and do better, but had not learnt to do that and i had to teach him. But i might have had to continue teaching him until the end of my life at my own expense. I chose to not have such a future even if i have to be alone for a long time.
Ok so….you might be autistic and it’s all good I am autistic myself and I do not wanna chase men. BUT…I believe…In the beginning…most men do like some chase. But if we are talking a few years down the road…no you don’t ignore your partner just for shits and giggles…no one would like this. But I’ll also admit…in an argument …where breaking up is an option…not gonna lie…every now and then standing your ground to a man and sometimes to a woman..is needed and sometimes absolutely works. But this isn’t like things you do every day or even every year. I’m just saying there is a middle ground here…and absolutely…men do like a chase now and then. Your back bone comment…I mean this I guess.
Men are born to chase. There use to be a lot more social rules and guidelines to how it was done and what was acceptable. The hate men, be like men movement killed that.
I tried approaching men, they usually start acting helpless, like they’ve never dated before. It’s like they want you to do everything, it’s too exhausting
@@Enriquez2222 That's how it usually feels for men too. It is exhausting to initiate everything and know what the other wants. But if both parties put in effort and gave feedback (cues that aren't vague) it would go smoother. It also depends on how interested someone is in the pursuer.
Probably late stage capitalism and the decrease in social ability meaning that more and more people stop hanging out with each other and get their information, views about the world and views on other groups of people from internet forums and gurus
@@lastnamefirstname2390 Yes, it's women, because men are just these sweet, innocent, open minded Angels who are just looking to pour their love into women and choose women largely based on meaningful qualities such as values, personality, companionship etc. Men would never hurt women (provoked or unprovoked), nor would men be superficial in their choices by only choosing women who they consider to be the hottest Instagram looking "Baddie" they can possibly find... Men are innocent and women are evil... 😑😑
Lol yeah. The mama vs hoe part is so unnecessarily extreme. Of course people are gonna simplify it as complete opposites. This book is NOT pulling people together
That's a lot of these women relationship channels. That's why I like listening to them. It's intriguing that they don't realize they're parroting incel ideology. Didn't know until recently that these channels existed
yeah tbh i agree with you. I don’t like the idea that i should be okay with a man not talking to me for 24 hours. I feel like if we liked each other we should equally talk to each other. If you liked me you wouldn’t ghost me and vice versa. I’m not, not going to talk to someone i don’t like. If i’m feeling someone i’m 100% going to talk to them. That’s just how i am.
As a guy watching this im going to try to give my honest opinion since i would also like to hear a similar viewpoint from a girl perspective. I dont mean to be mean if i come across that way im sorry just trying to give my genuine opinion. English is not my first language,a i will try my best. 1- We should not speak in absolutes since every truth is relative to whichever person is talking at the moment, a lot of variables go into what a gender expects of the other, culture, age, life experience etc etc What we can do is take broad statements that apply to the majority of a group of people, which could only be 100% verifiable with studies which is not possible for every minute detail when we talk about stuff like dating and the ammount of variable to take into account. We can give each other our empirical evidence and discuss. 2- If i am truly interested in a girl im not going to stop liking her if she is too available 3- I personally like nice girls, the ones that seem to have a lot of empathy, motherly vibes, doesnt like to hate, bubbly, positive, comes across as feminine to me which is attractive, i dont like the brash, loud, abnoxious, hateful, basically similar to what you would picture the stereotypical male sports fan. (everyone is human not to say that just because sometimes you get upset it makes you less atractive, the overall day to day vibe) 4- i have noticed that when a girl seems busy and difficult to plan with i might start peeking my interest early on when i dont know much about her but it is temporary since this getting to know someone phase is not permanent and it tends to fizzle out, not to mention it is dangerous because if you come across as too busy it can be interpreted as you simply not being THAT interest and i will back off. I and a lot of men have learnt that mixed signals = no . A woman will make you know if she is interested, if its not a hell ye then its a hell no. The last thing you want to do as a man is make a woman uncomfortable. 5- I would like to give my 2 cents on something, if a guy is only chasing you after you change your natural way of being, it will never workout unless you are willing to play an act until the day you die. Not a comfy way to live life. 6- dating apps is a terrible way of taking notes about the other gender since it is so imbalanced in the proportions of men to women that people adapt in surprising ways, women are the vast minority which gives them, in general, exponential more ammount of matches than men which makes them extra picky because you only have so much time to answer all the matches, it gets too overwhelming and you start to reject men by the most minimal and useless details. This makes ghosting very prevalent, which forces men to try to speak to multiple women at once even if you dont want to if you even want a chance to get a date, this obviously only worsens the problem. I could go on forever but this would get too big. We can discuss this more in depth 7- yes men will pursue a woman we want, because we are SOCIALLY wired to be that way, although it has to be noted pursuing and chasing are different things which in the context of dating and everyones personal limits of the definitions are very different from person to person, someones chasing might be someone elses stalking. Good men will pursue you until you show no interest, there will come a time which he could keep going and looking creepy if you are not interested or if you are interested you will like it, men with good intentions will stop before that point, again, if its not a hell ye then its a hell no. I dont believe in chasing dont expect good men to chase. pursueing yes, chasing no. 8- 10:05 i feel like we are speaking in black and whites, no man and no woman wants a pushover, but if you are ONLY and ALWAYS thinking about yourself you will come across as the opposite which is not any better. People want someone who cares about them and that is confident. Life is more complex than the binary way of thinking and the internet seems to amplify this problem imo. 9- it feels like this is the female version of the redpill for some reason, more so giving made up answers to a problem with the sole porpuse of making people feel good and saying its not their fault its the other genders fault. 10- 10:40 up until now "nice girl" has been framed as someone that is a pushover and clingy etc etc something unhealthy that no one obviously shoulld be. which is not what it is, someone nice is someone nice. it seems to me someone is trying to frame something that is seen as a good general caractheristic as "guys this is actually bad im going to stop being this" . And "the dream girl" that without framing is seen as the goal for what to be if you are a girl, but it is being overwritten as someone who "doesnt care" that is egotistical and only prioritzes herself. doesnt seem healthy. redpill vibes of the : "btw guys, women actually only want guys that treat them bad and cheat" 11- i didnt read the book this is my reaction to the examples of the video obviously, if i get more time and energy i might add more of my ideas, only watched until minute 13:30.
I genuinely appreciated your response, and you made some incredible points. Also, the fact that English isn’t your first language, and you were able to professionally articulate this response, is very admirable.
you literally Dunked it bro, I laughed at the popcorn example because, if I were giving it my all when planning dates and that's all a girl did in return, Massive Turn off. best believe I'm not asking her out again😂 Plus, saying that men like the chase is basically advocating for men to give it their all while the girl is busy being a dream girl. isn't that basically being a "nice guy"? Now we've come full circle. This is not a gender attraction thing, everyone likes nice people and they are different from door mats in the sense that the later is fine with little or no reciprocation! Point 4 and 7 are award winners and it applies to both genders. it all goes both ways. advice like the ones in that book make things too complicated.
@@brifflings someone get this nigga a medal. He making so much sense to all the men. Women please take notes and this advice will take you so much further than a book teaching you to be a narcissist.
As a man, I can say confidently that the "Dream girl" is not what men are interested in. Women who are: Kind, feminine, nurturing and yet are mature adults is what mature men are interested in.
I think actually really insecure people usually like those stuck up bad people, it is like magnets. So if you are well balanced you should attract a well balanced person as well.
Find you a sweet girl that's got your back. Don't use her, show her the reason why you're best choice and that her actions to make you happy aren't in vain. You shouldn't think singular in a relationship, but how you can do things that work well for both of you. Nice girls are rare. And they're usually flipped to inconsiderate bitches...I mean dream girls, after dealing with a guy that took them from granted. Don't be that guy. If a nice girl goes out her way, reciprocate the energy, then do the same for her.
As a bisexual women I can say that dating women isn’t that different to dating guys in a lot of ways it’s about communication and whether you guys actually get eachother
@xeternalflowerx1978 I think it balls down to whether or not you like each other. Cause I can understand and get exactly where you're coming from and still not care about anything you're talking about. Why you ask? Cause I know you're not going anywhere. It's all about the reciprocation of effort. Unfortunately in most couples there always one that likes the other more. takes time and energy to do effectively.
So this is the book making all these women narcissistic. Men are not toys you can play with. Telling your man you just chose him but don’t love him is crazy af and I would dump my girl on the spot. Bro just put in effort and make sure it’s reciprocated if not leave. Men do like good girls. Who wants a toxic narcissist in a relationship that sounds so exhausting. All guys are asking for is you to have hobbies, a job and a good heart. Set boundaries if you have them and he should respect them. If your man is “moving mad” against you for some reason obviously call him out because that’s communication. You’re not a bitch for communicating your feelings, your human damn it!!! Men and women need to start teaming up and becoming one unit again. Playing games like this is not worth it. This goes for anyone “if there attracted to you, you can’t do nothing wrong, if they are not attracted, you can’t do anything right.” One word replies go both ways. I just know that means she’s not fucking with me and I unmatch. If I see effort I put effort. Don’t let the world change your kindness. Let all the toxic weirdos traumatize each other.
I'm a guy and I find most of the statements you mentioned from the book kinda stupid (only going off what you said, i haven't read it myself). Yes independence and confidence are attractive and clingyness/an obvious need for validation from others isn't, but I don't get how that's related to gender. The whole "men like to chase" narrative and "they like women who are selfish/hard to get" etc is a game you can play, but it's a terrible foundation for a proper relationship. Being independent is great, but why fake a lack of interest. I personally struggle to "flirt" or show interest in a charming but obvious way, so when I feel like someone likes or even approaches me I feel charmed and more than happy to give it a go. Putting yourself first is important for everyone and a foundation for good self esteem. That does not mean that you won't do someone a favour ever, but just not at the cost of your own well-being. Have standards - not the "6 figures 6 feet" kinda nonsense, but you can expect more than the bare minimum and someone that shows no effort at all. If I ask you to pick a restaurant, "I'll go wherever you go" is a useless answer because I could have picked it myself if I wanted to, and most people have some kind of preference anyway at least when it comes to food right? 13:30 this was interesting because that's usually my/the guy's experience on dating apps (getting one line answers etc) but that's because guy's have way less matches/options on the apps because there are so many of them, so they have to try extra hard with the matches they get. Girls have a lot more likes/matches on average, and assuming that applies to you as well, I would just think "why even bother trying to talk to this brick wall of a guy" an move on..? I don't know the context but as soon as someone deliberately puts in little to no effort into a conversation, it's always better to just leave it as you deserve better! But again this holds for everyone independent of gender or orientation. Also I hate this thought of "I like a women who puts me in my place if I'm being a jerk" - how about not being a jerk in the first place, it's not that difficult. Ok that's enough now just some ramblings
They seem to think that doing to good men what trashy men do to them is a successful strategy and the birth rates are definitely going to suffer for it.
Personally, I don’t believe playing games work. If a guy likes you he’ll make things happen. Obviously don’t bend over backwards for anyone, that’s basic self respect. But you don’t need to purposefully act uninterested to get him to like you. I think when it comes to dating we blame a lot on ourselves but at the end of the day we can’t control other people’s actions. Sometimes things don’t work out because you just weren’t meant for each other.
As a married dude, this video and all the "advice" in it is terrible. The book is literally just confusing having healthy boundaries and self-respect for being rude and inconsiderate. Men don't like door mats because we want to date a person with wants, needs, hopes, dreams, opinions, and ambitions, not some vain reflection of what you think we want. Yes have boundaries, have wants and hopes, and other things going on in your life, but if you're constantly shoving your man aside for X,Y, and Z he isn't going to keep chasing you, he's going to move on. Unless he has zero self respect and now you've just inverted the problem. Men do not "need" the chase, we aren't fucking dogs and women aren't treats on a piece of string to be dangled around. Men want to know that we matter, that we have a place in your life in the same way I assume women want to know the same. Constantly treating your partner like shit and never reciprocating any effort isn't something to aspire to just because you're a woman. It isn't going to lead to any sort of healthy relationship anyway. There is a middle ground between being a non person door mat and being a rude, inconsiderate bitch. Relationships are about give and take. If one person is always giving and never taking the relationship will fail, if one person is always taking and never giving the relationship will also fail. Man or woman. *People respect people who respect themselves* have some self respect and treat your partner with the same otherwise all your gonna get is a string of failed toxic relationships that go nowhere.
Yes! The whole chase narrative is dumb, way better to think about it as a dance: you are both in it. When both sides see the reciprocity and actually do something about it.
As a guy I find this hilarious because it’s the exact messaging and rhetoric that cringe red pill dating gurus have for us. The truth is clinginess and desperation isn’t attractive but neither is having such arbitrarily high standards and playing games. It leads to this stupid stand off where both guy and girl are convinced that the other one has to bend to their will, text them first, etc. The same way women will see and be turned off by guys who are very clearly trying too hard to be the opposite of a nice guy, by negging, being a dick, etc. I would be turned off by a girl that’s clearly trying to get me to chase them, give the runaround, get me to jump through hoops to win their affection. It’s cringe both ways. And both ways there are enough people that have low enough self respect for it to work on them. Men who let themselves get lead around on chases become the clingy “simps” that the redpill wants to move away from, women who let guys walk all over them become the “pick me’s” that this book/movement is trying to move away from.
You can stand up for yourself and disagree with someone with out being a pain to be around. It's really more so the context of what you're doing. For example, if you can't hang out tonight and we had a date planned, the BEST THING TO DO is say "I can't do tonight, can we plan something else another day" and then ACTUALLY FOLLOW UP on this. You don't need to be this girlboss "everything is about me" attitude, just find ways to show your interested with out being a doormat.
Nahh I wouldn't say a lack of teaching, more of an excess of main stream bs being crammed in their heads about how dudes think, and most of it is wrong lol
I think there is a misunderstanding here. It's not about being "nice" that is the problem here, it's about being "needy" and having no personality 6:37. If you are saying yes to everything and have no own will of course other people won't find that attractive. We men want to date someone who knows what they want, we want someone with a spine, we want someone that chose us intentionally, who knows what they want. But don't fall into the other extreme of playing "hard to get", that can ruin everything very fast. If he is investing, invest back and don't make it ultra hard for him. Also don't be always "passive investing" (saying yes to his dates but doing nothing more), you can also come up with ideas, suggest dates or meetups, it doesnt have to be always him. The investment can feel very onesided very quickly and that's a turnoff. Be a kind, normal human being with standards, nothing more, nothing less.
@@ChristinaAaliyah This is bad advice the whole book will just get you banged and left. Mothers are wives! We need her to act as a mother! Especially if you want children. If I don't see the traits of a mother why would I make you one?
As a guy who is in a long term relationship, the man this book describes is maybe 5% of guys. I would recommend women put very little stock what that book says if they want to be happy. I have a few points here so read the ones you find interesting and TLDR at bottom. I know many many legitimately good dudes that would absolutely die to have a "nice girl", they are often either never given a chance, or are too scared to try to get one and obviously never get approached either. Thats probably 50% of the dudes i know. 15% are not good guys and dont have anyone, 30% have someone, and that last 5% that this book describes are the ones that all of the nice girls let through the door. I personally know this man is not given a chance by you alone, and these men do not end up happy or in good relationships a majority of the time, so stop tryin to find a way to get them to pick you. Firstly, these things that the book tells you to do makes bad relationships more interesting and makes good relationships harder. When my partner would do any of these things listed in the book, it did not make me want her more, it made the relationship worse. We would get through them, but it would be better if we avoided them. The exception to this is that you should have respect for yourself, but dont be self centered as the book explains. The "you do it for me" mentality is toxic, and the best mentality is "we both do as much as we can for each other", so dont be afraid to show love through action or work because it will show them they love you, but you can do that while having respect for yourself. EXAMPLE. When my gf and i would find times to call, i would always have to work around her schedule and not vice versa, and would have to sideline things to get calls in. I still did it because i dont mind sacrificing, but communicated that it was a 1 way sacrifice and it slowly improved. Secondly, if you feel like you are the tread on nice girl in this scenerio, I personally assure you that there are many many good guys out there waiting to find you who would love to match the effort you put in without a second though. My recommendation is twofold. One, is to be less picky, but hear me out. When you are picky, the one you do pick is also the one that most other women pick. If after 10 nos you hit a maybe, that same man is the maybe for a lot of other girls, and that man is often but not always spoiled by being able to choose between a good few girls giving him anything. Open your range to more of the nos. I know its easier said than done, but they are much much less likely to tread on you. Think about it like this: these men are in your situation, but without even being given the shot. Recommendation Two is to be open towards approaching men. I know it is hard, but lots of guys are too scared of rejection to try, and weather its warranted or not, between the threat of S misconduct allegations, having the person they approach recount the event in a bad light online, or god forbid the person approached have a friend record and post it in a negative light, are top reasons as to why guys might not want to take the risk. These might be rare cases, but we have all seen them online, and guys are not above being too scared on the extremes to decide against it. And if a guy does approach you, it is with all these fears in mind, so be aware of that. Separately, it does not help that girls are statistically more likely to reject than guys, so even extremes excluded, they are likely to get put down, it just depends on how hardly. My Gf has told me that she thinks its easy for guys to approach and thats just not true. Getting turned down is crushing for most guys, and im not saying its easy for ladies to do it, but at consider trying, and at the very least, give guys a few minutes to get to know them before you turn them away, and let guys down kindly if you have to let them down. "well hey, it was nice talking to you, but do you mind if I go back to talking with my friends?" like that. And if you want a way to get some talk started (please try, guys are very willing to talk if they are approached unless you are falling over yourself drunk) "hey, i saw you a few minutes ago and I just wanted to know how you are doing/how you like this place/ what you are drinking, ect..." TLDR, If you felt like this book describes your issue, dont listen to the books advice. The guys it describes are mostly not going to end up in good relationships so dont make it with you, and the advice is destructive of the good relationships you could have. And those good relationships you could have are normally with guys who dont pass the eye test, so consider changing your criteria, and making the first move.
Im a man that usually agrees with most of your opinions, but this entire video is a huge miss. All the advice in here is the complete opposite of what we are looking for in a woman,and this going to keep a lot of yall perpetually single and ghosted.
Exactly. And the author of the book isn’t even a man. How can a woman know what men want in a woman? Like why does she speak for us when shes not even one of us?
All I hear about is what men want in a woman, only a small percentage of you speak about how you’ll actually add to a woman’s life. I’m fine with being perpetually single, literally just sounds like yall want me to be your battery at this point
I, as a guy, am generally looking for someone who can add to my life. My belief is a woman should reciprocate the energy that a man is giving. However, any guy that doesn't want a "Nice Girl" is more than likely not a man that you would actively want, they might be fun in the moment, but over all probably is not the best choice for you. At 6:35 when you talk about a "dream girl" wouldn't make any effort to impress, I feel that it is more so guys wouldn't want a girl that doesn't have anything else going on. If their entire personality would revolve around the person that they are dating in a codependent way, that can definitely turn some guys off because it can feel draining at times. I dated a girl at the time that was codependent and I felt like she was an emotional vampire at times. It was constant comparison of myself against other guys and she relied on me to make her happy when she never made the effort to fix anything.
I’m glad the men are catching on. I’m a self proclaimed recovering nice guy (not proud of that) standing at 5’7. I train and work out, I’m a doctor as well, but lived a miserable social life. I came from the self acceptance video (I think titled why no one hangs with ugly people) and though I understand this channel is primarily geared to women, this advice really is the opposite side to the same toxic coin. If I don’t see you putting in the effort you require me to, trying to be the “dream girl”, I’m leaving. Don’t let this video or book fool you.
I have a feeling that this is one of those moments where how things should be isn't how they are. Like, we should all just appreciate each other and be kind and look for that in relationships but the reality is that people like mean people, or people that don't show them affection. Think about the ex you couldn't get over vs the one it was easy to get over. Most likely the one you couldn't get over was the mean/unaffectionate one. Tho I don't know I haven't been dating for that long.
@@kashimbanguni7404 in a perfect world I’d agree. Unfortunately there’s a large outlook for self interest so appreciation only comes from “what can you do for me” rather than “I like you for who your are”.
@@gamorapotter9946 I see you edited your comment mentioning something about me thinking my career was all I needed, and therefore I already know this reply isn’t in good faith. I 1. Didn’t say that’s all I needed, and 2. You completely derailed my comment to justify manipulating men? That’s wild. But I’m not surprised.
@@gamorapotter9946 “the girl you probably ignored” So you create a straw man and go down this hypoghettical, pull up some pseudo intellectual argument to reverse this on me and men because *checks notes* we don’t like being manipulated either? We aren’t progressing anywhere long as your kind is doing this. You can call out the system all you want, but abusing it with justification ain’t it
Thinking being a “nice girl” is undesirable is kinda wild to me 😂😂😂 But I get where it's coming from. If the guy is only interested in short-term, the “nice girl” is guaranteed to lose. Personally, id not count that as a loss…
To be honest this is exhausting. I don't understand how in one breath people can say don't make men the center of your world. But then turn around and tell you to create your own world in order to get a man. Somehow I always end up getting the vibe that we're making men the center of our world without letting men know that they're the center of our world. I understand that people are complex but I feel like we're so complex in the wrong ways.
I hear some people saying they dont want obnoxious, brash, loud women or a girl who has an attitude,i don't think that whats the video is about. i just think a girl has to know her worth in a relationship, yeah she'll show him a green card if she's genuinely interested but she shouldn't exchange the roles.
Honestly as a guy it feels like if I am also always available and always ready to move things around, I am also not gonna be very attractive to women, It just sounds like human behavior that would show up even amongst friends. I think it’s pretty obvious when someone is self assured and responds early vs someone that is trying too hard, and that goes for all genders
It really seems like we’re talking past each other on this relationship thing. As a man, it’s like both sides are wrong, both the men talking about what women want and women talking about what men want. I think there are tons of misconceptions about the other sex on both sides, and an over inflation of the more rare and outlandish situations bc that’s what’s getting the most views on social media. If white people want to know about black people, maybe they should actually talk to black people instead of their other white friends who don’t talk to black people about black people. Same thing with men and women. Taking this approach will only end in a group think echo chamber of people sharing flawed views, thinking they’re right just bc their group validates them even though it’s incoherent with reality. It’s probably best to just be as open and honest with whoever’s right in front of you specifically about desires and expectations than to play this exhausting guessing game from both sides with these terrible situationships. Imo, that’s probably the biggest turn off for gen z. We’re more time efficient and don’t want to invest where we see no beneficial outcome or in something that’s coming off as too risky and confusing
I feel like making sweeping generalizations about what men or women want is bad. This video is about people pleasers. People don’t want to date people pleasers. Like I feel like this book and your video are essentially sexist
This is why dating is horrible nowadays. Guys are told not to chase it’s weird and women are told not to chase it cuz it’s unattractive. Be yourself and it’ll work out
This sounds like the same type of things guys say. "dont text her back to fast, let her want your attention." The silent treatment portion at 13:50 is something i always run into woth women. Trying desperately to have some form of a conversation with one word answers. Cooking together is awesome but if theyre only making popcorn and their show of care is if id want it in Tupperware? Id end that attempt. Texting back immediately isnt needed but if im waiting a day or more every time immakes feel like im wasting my time and i move on. It feels like on dating apps or even bar meetings, its really just bottom of the barrel
there’s no “nice girl” or “dream girl”. people regardless of gender are attracted to self-respecting people who are secure in themselves and do not sacrifice themselves for validation.
As a man who speaks to a lot of men about dating this is literally the opposite of what were looking for from women. But people can act the way they want to but they'll have to live with those choices. You definitely shouldnt be a door mat though thats not okay either.
imo the "thrill of the chase" is totally irrelevant and just a specific observation of a more general phenomenon that when people have options they will select the best option and going after a more desirable option requires more effort or "chasing" as it were. Ambivalent behavior by a person after a date is usually because they have better options not because the other person didn't behave a very specific way to make them attracted.
This whole video is a guide on women becoming the men they hate to love. The problem is that those men don’t like any of the stuff the women on TikTok are telling young girls to do. How many of those women giving advice have a super successful, super attractive, super etc. man that loves and adores them?
I can only speak for myself, but showing enthusiasm for and connection with *me specifically* because of something we have in common is hot, people-pleasing and mirroring as general personality traits don't mean much either way, but aloofness and an attitude of "I'm the prize" are a huge turn-off. Same goes for being hit on: it's hot if it's based on them seeing something special in you that's not often appreciated, not really if it's "I'm horny and you're here", but worst of all is if they just see physical intimacy as bait to get something else. The answer isn't to always be more closed off or "hard to get", but to sincerely express your preferences. Plenty of men don't want to "chase" or "win the prize", but just like most women, they want to feel like they have a special connection to the person they are dating, that they're not just the one who happened to be around at the time. There are people out there who want "blank slate" partners who can be moulded into anything, or who want to start with a "wild" partner and "tame" them to their wishes, but these are generally people you should avoid, it's much better to be with someone who expects you to come with your own likes and dislikes that will form part of the relationship.
This make zero sense, I'm a 25 y/o guy, who has never held hands, never kissed, and never had a girlfriend, and not through a lack of trying, I have gone on 5 different dates, and tried my hardest each time, I took notes when they talked to me, I made plans months in advance, I wore make-up and nice cloths, etc. And they all rejected me after the first date, one of them looked like she was going to throw up when I asked her to hold hands. I wish I had a woman who chased me. I see guys who have 3 or 4 women fighting over him at the same time, I don't know how they do it.
I know someone who just got out of a relationship with her jerk of a boyfriend, but she was a total doormat to him despite considering herself confident. They always did what he wanted to do and would never consider her feelings. She would always go out of her way to meet him, and she spent ages caring for him when he got seriously injured. He SUCKED. I'm not saying anyone should be with a guy like that, but know your worth. He's not going to start treating you well if he never had to in the first place. A relationship isn't supposed to feel like you're constantly putting yourself in stress and discomfort to make someone else happy. ❤
It makes it look like there are only two options: either be a door mat or get a door mat. If the other part (forget genders here) is putting some effort and you are so busy that your dinner plan is popcorn... If they stay, they are a door mat! Don't get me wrong, it can work short term but that's not gonna last. Relationships are a give and take, it will never be perfectly balanced, but both parts need to be available and help each other.
I've never been all that pretty or smart but for some unknown reason i have been very satisfied with myself for as long as i can remember. From that i've noticed how easily i, a completely average woman, can attract guys. Mostly online because, again, they're attracted to my personality more than anything. And i've noticed the attraction tends to only increase when i word not being interested in a relationship. (They're more often than not super respectful about it, but i can tell from small hints and such their feelings only increase.) My "motto for love" has always been to become the person i would want to be in a relationahip with (platonic or romantic) and just let the dudes who are into that come to me.
As a man, if the girl I like is playing hard to get, I assume she's not interested. If she is nice, I'm interested in pursuing. Dream girls just have that "stay single" energy. Very ironic how you talk about self worth, but dont realize that puttting low effort in your dates ends up with partners who have no self worth.
Before I watch any further past the intro, I would like to clarify to the nice girls/good girls that many men do in fact like nice & wholesome girls. Perhaps, you haven't met your match yet cause those types of guys are more reserved & patient when it comes to dating. Might edit this by adding a perspective with what's been said I agree with the points made. Personally, I cannot physically get myself to be with a woman who is a push over. I need her to have boundaries, because I think it's healthy for her & our potential relationship. However, I don't think girls need to be entirely relinquish the nice girl characteristics that can be balanced out. I don't think it's attractive when women think they're a prize & behave like a man should chase them. I think balance is what's most attractive. Seeing that a woman has self-respect, self-assurance & confidence, but also humility and nurturing characteristics is so refreshing. That's the type of woman I personally fall the hardest for. She makes me anticipate stability, but also I know that she will hold me accountable with the hopes of making the relationship work
You’re definitely right, this video is for the women that DATE men. The most important fact of this however is that the men considered date-worthy are not 1:1 with single women. 80% of men don’t need a chase. However if your’re going on a date with a man, 9/10 he’s capable of dating other women and that level of options for a man opens the door for the whole “men chasing after what they can’t have” concept which exists for anyone with a plethora of potential partners including women. Essentially, Women are great at filtering for men; but they all filter for a relative archetype of man of which they have to filter themselves.
First of all, I'm a new subscriber. Your content is pointed and thought provoking. So, the idea of "the chase" often uses the metaphor of hunting, where a man is hunting and the pursuit is the thrill. I would agree with this with men who are chasing people as a means of fulfilment, as opposed to acknowledging that fulfillment is the means by which one can develop healthy relationships. For example, there are men who, when put into the forest with an axe, will chop the forest down until there are no more trees. The fallen trees hold no value other than to gratify a sense of accomplishment, but the act of chopping down trees is more appealing than utilizing the fallen timber to build a house or develop land. This is born from that maximizer mind set you mentioned in another video. Chop bigger and bigger trees, thoughtless consumption of the environment as means to keep insecurity at bay. In other words, the typical chaser is never satisfied when the hunt ends. Trying to maintain the attention of a chaser will be a constant expenditure of energy for both parties. Once the chased out distances the chaser, or the chaser finally catches up, the chase ends and the game ends. There is no satisfactory end state for this dynamic. As a man who has broken up with good women, "nice" women, it was 100% brought about by my own insecurities. Now, I'm no chaser, but my insecurity was a matter of being uncertain of the future. Thoughts about how I might provide for this woman, how would I be able to raise children, am I the type of person that can maintain a healthy relationship in the long term? Will I devolve into some jaded middle aged bastard? Am I capable of doing right by them? Those possibilities and ideas were a threat to my own peace of mind. Insecurity is the driving force for relationships to fall apart or to become a festering, malignant, codependent mess. Now, on to the idea of being nice. Being nice and kind and gentle, in sincerity, is admirable and respectable. It's a great state of being to be achieved and embraced. The problem is insecure people encourage insecurity in others. Hurt people hurt people. Unfortunately, this effect has been blown out of proportion in the social scene. The accommodating and generous nature of good people has lead to a dialog where folks feel like they need to change their nature to attract an idea of a person, an ideal. This is where the nature of being nice can lead one to betray their own identity. There should be an acknowledgement of whether of not an individual is a match for you romantically. Instead, there's a cloying impulse to change one's own nature in pursuit of the idea of a person. One never acknowledges the one being pursued, only the idea of that person. That's the big think. If one changes their nature to pursue the idea of a person, the foundation of that relationship is based upon a fantasy, a convenient deception of the self. One must first acknowledge and understand the individual in front of them and deem that person worth pursuit and admiration, along with an understanding of shared values. It is only then that compromise and adaptation in the relationship can take place from a grounded and healthy perspective.
Sounds like what it really boils down to is having and maintaining a sense of self. ✨ Keep up your beauty and self care, have a social life or at least close friends to share life with, have hobbies and passions that bring you happiness, keep challenging your mind by learning new things, have a career or business to grow with. Most of all, don’t be afraid to speak up for yourself. It’s okay to have boundaries and different opinions. You don’t have to morph into the Barbie doll you think men want Inspiring pursuit and keeping a man’s interest has a less to do with the man and more to do with just taking care of yourself. Of course show interest in connecting to him too. Many women think being cold and aloof is the solution and it’s not. It’s a nuanced subject though. Some of those quotes they were reading from men.. it sounds like they purposely mess up to get a woman angry at them. Can you imagine living with a man like that? It sounds like he wants a mom to scold him. I don’t want to have to scold a man into behaving properly. Of course speak up when necessary but that’s different than the guys who are purposely taking advantage and pushing boundaries to see your reaction.
I have a feeling that this is one of those moments where how things should be isn't how they are. Like, we should all just appreciate each other and be kind and look for that in relationships but the reality is that people like mean people, or people that don't show them affection. Think about the ex you couldn't get over vs the one it was easy to get over. Most likely the one you couldn't get over was the mean/unaffectionate one. Tho I don't know I haven't been dating for that long.
I tried being the nice girl for so long, and in the most ironic turn of events, I was the one who got bored. I did this because people always tell me that I am too much, too smart and every other "too much" in the world. Once I released the need to hide myself, I stopped playing the nice girl game and have had better romantic interactions as a result.
This is me adding my two cents as a high schooler. English isn't my first language so imma try my best 😢. I'm a pretty open person when it comes to affection. If I like you, there's a chance you know bc I will put in the effort y'know? Be the "Nice girl" but I only act like that bc that's how I want my future s/o to be with me. When I like someone, friend or crush I like to know everything about them and stuff like that, there's just something nice about spending the entire day with someone who makes you happy and seeing that you make them happy. As a result, though, a lot of people tend to see me as overbearing, and I get it, even though I think I go overboard sometimes but I love being the "nice girl" (depending on the guy ofc). Hear me out... but it's actually something I pride myself on. Nobody around me so far is willing to be "the nice girl" for anyone, basically almost everyone I know is self serving and talk to you when they don't have a choice so to be that someone who makes other people feel wanted is- I think, one of my best qualities. But then again, everything depends on context and what not. yh that's it, if it's not cohesive or didn't add anything to the conversation sorry for wasting your time 🥲. (Side note: Balance and context are important people)
Just wanted to give my perspective as a dude currently in the dating game - M26, Straight I read a comment from here which I resonate heavily with which stated that “chasing” in this context might be misconstrued as “pursuing”. When I was growing up in my late teenage years, I felt more desperate for a date causing me to feel negative emotions about “chasing” the right girl. I more-so thought that the perfect girl would fall into my lap and dismissed the effort that had to be put in to establish a good relationship. ie) I was pretty insecure. Now that I’m starting to get in my late 20’s, I’ve developed a better sense of self and with that came an epiphany that “pursuing” someone you love is indeed invigorating! In this context it shouldn’t be desperate or creepy if you approach someone with the utmost respect for their wellbeing and are generally confident and have the tools (eg. Mantras, etc.) to anchor yourself through the waves of self-doubt. Moreover, the “pursuit” can be a fun process provided the interactions you have are respectful and you’re getting positive signs they like you back. Thanks for coming to my TedTalk 🤣
Honestly, as a guy I feel like this describes my past relationship, except the roles were reversed. I would try everything to make things easier for her, to the point that she would get upset with me for not having desires of my own. I was so desperate to keep her by my side since just expending time together and seeing her smile put me at ease. This has caused a bit of burn out in the end, so I would actually want to be shown interest and be the one getting chased. Again, as a guy. To me chasing only makes sense when I'm actually into someone, but dating apps are weird because most women just don't write anything about themselves. They just post pictures of them in their bikinis. You need to tell the person that you like them before you can actually talk to them, that feels weirdly backwards unless you're just there for the looks or validation.
I’d easily confuse a woman wanting to give me the chase as them not being interested. After a couple of hesitations to want to hang out or being dry over text so I’d dig deeper into the conversation, I’d bail simply due to 1. Not wanting to seem desperate 2. Not wanting to potentially make a girl uncomfortable for continue to try to pursue if she’s not interested 3. Not wasting my time pursuing a girl who’s not interested I think the best way for both men and woman is to be honest and upfront with your feelings and not play the hard to get game because that’ll ensure that both parties on on the same wavelength and give both the most honest and genuine experience
Oh hell. Kids, please don’t buy into this garbage. My wife and I have been friends since grade school (circa 1995), we’ve been together since 2007 and married since 2012. One of the things that drew me to her and keep me 100% loyal is that’s she’s nice to me. It’s ok to go after a guy that you like. My wife asked me out and even proposed to me. In return, I bust my ass for her and our now two children. The only thing that I’m “chasing” is a better life for my wife and kids. If I were somehow saddled with a woman as described in this book, I would definitely leave (or not engaged with in the first place). Unfortunately, both women and men are advised to be toxic to each other in the name of “attraction.” It’s truly perplexing that anyone, male or female, would find being dismissed or mistreated as being something desirable.
In a way , being nice is like you trying to suppress your true self and trying to adapt and adjust to what the other person wants , that will become a problem in the long run. People who get completely infatuated and obsessed with someone is the kinda person who will put in so much effort to get attention and affection in return , but that will definitely not last , thats where the " relationship was good when it was boyfriend-girlfriend but now that they are married they take them for granted and don't put in anymore effort like they used to " type of situations arise. Trying to fake a personality or pretend to be something that's not the real you won't last long so in the long run you'll have to stop pretending and be your authentic self so if that was a key element of your relationship then you build your relationship on bad fundamentals to begin with. Confidence is definitely attractive. So is a good character , personality and genuine kindness. Without all these things the relationship is destined to be short lived and end up in a failure.
Taking advice from women on what men want and like is a very wrong or incomplete way to approach things . Best thing is to ask male friends who don't have a romantic interest in you and whom you can trust and rely on to tell you what they think , coz majority of the cases that's the best advice which will get good results !
Have heard women say their interest in a man increases if he doesn't show any signs of interest in them , that's definitely not the case with men. If they like you they will try to go above and beyond to convince you that they like you , but as you mature and evolve you realise trying to bribe someone into a relationship by going way beyond your normal will only last so long and then resentment sets in , then with wisdom and experience men stop chasing women and then go for equal effort and participation as the better choice. An attractive woman gets the attention of a man very quickly , but if there's nothing else other than good looks that interest goes down pretty quickly . If someone is not very attractive , then it just means it'll take time to get to know the person and then slowly an organic and authentic relationship might bloom from there , that's why most guys try to be friends with a girl they like to get to know more about them before telling them they are interested in a romantic relationship , but often women friendzone such people. So the best advice for a woman will be to first develop a friendship and get to know more about the other person and then put your interest across , in most cases men are more welcoming of that than vice versa.
Most guys are honestly looking for a girl that seems interested in them, but also gives them the space to lead. Good Communication is a huge turn on. Honestly saying what you can tolerate and what you can’t will set up healthy boundaries. But an emphasis on showing some type of interest in the guy will get you a long way. If you feel like you have to act differently to be with the guy, then he isn’t for you. STOP TRYING TO MAKE GUYS THAT CLEARLY ONLY WANT TO FU INTO BOYFRIENDS!!!! If he literally puts in zero effort to spend time with you and get to know you other than sex stop being attracted to him it’ll be a waste of time.
Its the same way for men and women. We want someone who has their own life and chooses us because they want us in spite of everything else, not because they are desperate to fill a void in themselves.
I think that in any relationship, remember to take time for yourself. So that you're not anxiously attached . As in take time to detach and think about yourself and remember all the ways in which you like yourself
If you will pretend to be something you are not, you will just attract wrong people, plus you will just end up making feel yourself worse by suppressing yourself for what you truly are. Dont become the person tou would like to be around. Just develop stronger boundaries, values, self respect. Do not play games and do not let someone else to play with you. Its not good advice for both men and women to artificiality change yourself, to put a mask. If someone doesn't like me for what I'm internally, that's fine - those people are not for me. No one is obligated to like us. We need also to learn how to truly choose better people, to see through them, do not ignore so-called red flags. I do not like the chaise or games, regardless if I see someone doing that or I think that she isn't interested that much in me it's not worth the effort to continue. I will move on. And I will not compromise myself in an extreme way, just to attract someone who's most likely not for me and at the end I will end up feeling worse and perhaps by wasting my time on someone like that and not being my genuine myself I may miss or scare away someone worthy.
As a guy, I just feel this book will generate more issues not less. First off the "nice girl" here isn't a nice girl, she is a doormat and a people pleaser who is nice for the sake of approval, her kindness isn't a sign of strength, but a mental survival tactic. If you want to play this game of pretend to get guys who aren't interested in you as a partner but as a prize then you will have to accept having to pretend for the rest of the relationship as well, and him potentially leaving you once a harder to get prize appears. From my personal experience when a girl rejects meetings and doesn't suggest alternatives after let's say 2 attempts I will just lose interest and move on because I have better things to do, the same should be for women so if you decide to play this game of pretend instead of just being yourself you might end up on a path not suitable for you. The behaviour done by men in this video is also frequently done by women, although the message of finding hobbies and getting confidence is a very good message because those traits are attractive regardless of it being a romantic or platonic context, but these traits shouldn't be pursued for the sake of dating as that is a very weak foundation, kinda the same type of foundation the guys who work out to get girls have (spoiler they quickly become a laughing stock). To all the truly nice confident girls out there, keep being you so you find someone who loves you for you. Godspeed.
but men are told if we chase girls, we are seen as desperate and beta, and we need to pursue instead. and now neither men nor women want to date. and everyone is lonely and depresed, which makes them even more lonely because depression is unattractive and no, the book isnt accurate, my dream girl is a nice girl that goes out of her way to show me how important i am to her. im naturally a very giving person, but i need to recieve a lot, so you can imagine how it is for me becuase not only i need to find a woman that gives a lot, but i must also control myself not to give too much, or she will confuse me for a beta doormat, while in reality i just love to give a lot and i have a big heart. you are giving EXTREMELY TOXIC love advice woman...
27 so maybe im old but ive always been really attracted to women that genuinely seem interested in hanging out with me. The chase really turns me off bc i dont want to play games
To clarify, all games are games. If you really want to pursue someone but youre afraid youll come across as a nice guy or nice girl so you change how you would act, youre playing a game. When im interested in someone i show it, and the best feeling is when they show it back. You have to make yourself vulnerable to make genuine connections
But do i want a guy who's turned off when I show him my explicitly and enthusiastic consent to date him ? I will have no power dynamic in my relationships. If I like you, I'll make sure you know and put effort into dating you. I don't care if I look "desperate" (I don't btw), if you don't like it then we're not a good match anyway. And if you don't reciprocate the same effort and enthusiasm, then your number's getting deleted. I won't play games as an adult.
I think the real question should be, are you nice because that is how genuinely are or are you nice because you are trying to people please so that a guy will be your bf? I think once both genders realize that we shouldnt settle for these petty mindgames and that we should be comfortable in our own skin, then a lot of these issues could be resolved with minimal heartbreak on both sides.
Most important advice I can give is to date someone who will love you even if you behave in a way you perceive as desperate or embarrassing. There are so many cringey people out there who are in relationships precisely because they are cringeworthy! 😂 They find someone who likes them since people already know what the "worst" of that person looks like and don't really mind. I think that books like the one discussed are wrong about having to come across as having a "greater selfworth" or having to appear "higher in status" in order to win over someone you love. I believe when you are naturally able to just be yourself around another person is when you have truly found authentic love. Life is too short to cater yourself to people, so instead cater yourself to getting the most positivity out of your time. Good relationships will naturally follow!
I’m conflicted about this. On one hand, I get it. You definitely don’t want to let a guy lead you on for stuff only he wants, like sex, money, food, etc. As a woman who struggles with being massive people pleaser, it makes you *very* easy to be taken advantage of. But on the other hand, women have their own desires too. Women form their own attractions towards the men that they like, and I don’t think they should be discouraged from trying to pursue them. I don’t have all the time in the world to wait for a guy I like to start chasing me if he doesn’t even notice that I like him. Think there needs to be a balance between your “niceness” and “bitchiness”. Don’t be a pushover, but don’t be heartless either. Set up boundaries for yourself, and know when you shouldn’t make the first move and when you are doing too much.
As a man who regularly finds women not putting in too much effort. Any woman who actually tries mutually to make a relationship work would be a huge attractive quality. I’d be the first person to sign up to date a “nice girl”.
As a guy my initial reaction was that I disagreed mostly due to the title but after hearing out the details she’s right. Most of us don’t want a maid or a babysitter most of us want a partner and someone whom we feel equal too.
This is the recipe for one-sided relationship and in the long run your partner risks to be fed up with it. I am talking from personal experience. Quite contrarily the healthiest and happiest relationships I had were because the other don't hesitate to even do first steps and so it didn't looked thirsty, but conveyed the message she was ready to reciprocate and the effort to commit to each other would be 2-sided. The real and honest behavior to have if you fear being disrespected because you are nice would be to make the guy aware that you don't want to be on a chasing dynamic and seek availability upfront. Simple, clear and honest communication. I don't get with your conversation why you simply didn't ask or told the guy in a good way, and emphasize you don't want to be in a chasing dynamic ? The real problem is communication.
I'm glad I am no longer in the dating pool cause all these rules and labels seem so excessive, and it by itself can ruin authenticity and connection. Of course have self confidence and a life and integrity and self respect. All of these things are valid. But also don't live by these sets of rules and be authentic. There is no replacement for actual connection and no games will make a guy genuinely like you if he doesn't. I think there is so much pressure these days to be a "high value woman", but what high value woman let's other people define what that is? You can be a high value woman and decide to cook a meal for a guy because you want to surprise him and expect the same for him, because that's what is fun about a relationship. Caring enough about the other person to want to surprise and do nice things for each other. The only thing you need to do is find a guy who this comes naturally to and is willing to do the same. I have seen how much guys can learn to give once they're shown what it is to be given. If he isn't willing to do the same, maybe he just doesn't like you that much.
it’s very “nice guys finish last” to me and it basically is. i may not be a straight man or even a cis man but i know that i don’t like perusing anything with anyone unless there is clear mutual interest paired with effort and i know many guys feel the same.
I think it's not about a dream girl vs. Nice girl, but about self-respect and not letting sb walk over you in a relationship. You can be nice and have boundaries, the relationship should not be centered around one person but be a joint effort, cooperation not operation. Edit: nice girl just seems like all the women that enslave themselves to men bcs they think sacrificing respect for themselves aka themselves as people will give them the approval of a made up king that only she sees.
I think women have to find a balance somewhere in between the following two extremes: (1) When a women is just immediately clinging to a guy, that guy might be wondering, why she is so desperate? - surely a women this beautiful has to have options - why does she want me of all guys, even though I couldn't have done anything yet to prove myself? (2) But when there was hardly or any sign that the women was interested at all, then most guys will simply assume that she is not interested and will likely not even try. But keep in mind, that even though you think, you gave him an obvious sign, he might not have noticed at all. If a women is just being friendly and nice, guys will usually assume that she is not really interested, but just wants to be polite/courteous/nice/friendly. I know it seems almost impossible for women to be neither too easy/clingy/nice nor too distand/cold/cool/self-confident und actually has no time for a relationship, because she is too busy.
for me the girl making an effort is very important. maybe being a "not nice" girl can work for men younger than 25. but for most men that are of advanced age, a girl taking her time to reply you is an indication that she doesn't like you so other than simp men, you would turn most mature men off with that behavior. i have a rule personally that if i am the only one initiating calls and texts i simply stop and let the relationship die. i used to be willing to put all the effort but learned that if someone values you, they will put effort too. lmao what u talked about at 15.18 secs. what guy thinks about having a hold on a woman days into a conversation? you said earlier that guys are chasers. how can someone that is a chaser already expect that days into contact he has a hold on the woman? if a guy is responding with one word answers he either is introverted and not capable of carrying our proper conversations or he is burnt out by dating apps and not willing or capable of trying anymore or he isn't interested in you. he def isn't trying to check his hold on you. that book seems like its talking shit from your current explanations. for me when a man finds you attractive he will go above and beyond for you. its about his attraction to you. all the other behaviors especially what is preached in the book are unnecessary are more likely to be net negatives than positives. Its simple. if an attractive woman is toxic, she will still get mates bcos of her attractiveness. same for a nice girl. the physical appeal is what matters. toxic means he will try to fuck but he wont try to date or marry
I understand the concept of “the thrill of the chase” and the hardwired desire for achievement that most men have. That basically explains the “playing hard-to-get” phenomenon and how many men AND women seem to be naturally drawn to that. But, I think once someone reaches a certain level of self-awareness and maturity, they should be less susceptible to that. For me, when a woman is “playing hard-to-get” it’s an absolute turn off. Why? Because I’m the type of man that appreciates authenticity and genuine connection. No games. So, if a girl chases or doesn’t chase, it doesn’t matter. What matters is are they their authentic selves and do we have a genuine connection? That’s what truly matters. I don’t speak for all guys. But, if a girl wants genuine connection, then they need to find a guy that wants the same thing - they need to find someone who appreciates authenticity and dislikes games.
A nice girl can be nice, if it’s authentic. An alpha-female can also find success being that way, if it’s authentic. But fake nice and faking hard-to-get are both going to repel anyone IMO - for men AND women.
If you have to read that whole book and do all of those things to get a relationship with a man chances are you’re probably not "that girl". This book is basically the red pill but for women. It’s like man thinking that they will get women by adopting an abundance mindset. They don’t realize that they are not "that guy" Reading that book as a woman is the path of least resistance. "I have to make him pursue me" mentality instead of ADDING VALUE in a man’s life which is a thing that almost none of them do.
Hey 👋 so certified guys here. I'd like to say I highly disagree with most if not all of this. If anything some of these things will cause guys to think your a bit difficult or not worth the hastle. My advise would be to be yourself (nice) and true to your personality. Stay health and over all look good (not a model, just good) and last but not least don't cheat or flirt with other dudes. That book is just another cash grab of bad dating advise. Just as dumb as the type of nonsense guys are coming up with over on our side of the dating field trying to figure out ladies.
Idk of any man who would be turned off when a girl shows a lot of interest in them, this sounds like redpill advice for women lol. A lot of the kinds of men this book describes are the pimp/player types to me.
I'd have to disagree with the "chase" most guys I know want someone who they get along with first. They want someone who is "wife material" but that relationship comes from friendship first and foremost. It's not necessarily being agreeable, just more so being yourself. My first relationship came from a girl who was playing hard to get and wanted me to try to get her which really put me off. This wasn't a woman that I'd bring home to my parents, she was a girl who I hardly knew but wanted to push my buttons to see how badly I wanted to be with her. The people I have actually fallen in genuine love with were the ones that we took it slow, became friends first and became well known by my family.
13:14 honestly i think this is the most valid point and jist of it. He need to feel like you chose him and you where not desperate to have him but if he wants you he will accept you whether you make effort or he does. My opinion 🤷🏽♂️
I’m a man and I agree with half of this book. But for me I think this book can be related to both parties men and women but I think this book is trying to emphasise building your boundaries or getting your partner to respect you etc. As a man that has struggled with love before, I related to 60% of what was said (I feel like this is the female version of nice guys come last lol 😂) But personally, I wouldn’t want to date someone that is hard to get, or someone that waits to message me after 24 hrs lol. I want to be a priority in someone’s life and I want them to also be my priority, bc how am I going to marry and build a deep relationship/ connection if they keep running away or waiting to text me after 24 hrs. I would rather go date someone that is easier and someone that likes me and is willing to put in the same effort that I’m willing to put in into the relationship Also one more thing: If you are in a relationship or dating someone, you have to try to impress them. Why would I want to marry and have kids with someone that isn’t trying or putting in effort to be a better person or partner. I’m sure you wouldn’t advice your daughter to date a man that isn’t trying to impress them buy doing romantic things such as taking her on nice dates, buying her gifts etc And the mama v hoe theme is fuckin crazy asf. But to each it’s own.. I’m so glad I’m in a beautiful healthy relationship where me and my gf don’t play these stupid gymnastic games. We express ourselves and we do what we need to do to make our relationship health and happy, she been there through my tough difficult times and I have done the same for her. She has cooked for me lots of times and I have taken cooking classes now I cook for her 70% of the times bc now I’m in love with cooking. But to each it’s own, I pray that everyone does find the love that they deserve 🙏
tbh this whole thing feels very straight-woman red pill... guys have always been saying "girls only like douchebags, they don't want nice men who care for them so we need to stop being nice" and we clown them for that. so why is it true/good advice for women to not show genuine enthusiasm? to tone down their emotions to not scare off a man? idk though, im a lesbian
I always end up falling in love with lesbians cause when we speak we can convey genuine emotions and intention without the facade. lol life is funny
No it's 100% true. Watching the clips made me feel like I'm watching a bunch of female Andrew Tates. Stand up for yourself, be strong, have a bit of bite, sure. But I'd still like them to be a nice person, be generous & reciprocate my efforts instead of expecting me to constantly chase them. It's really just that simple.
I feel like people will have a bad experience with a certain person or being a certain kind of person themselves and just sprint full tilt the opposite way.
Just. Be. Normal...
I think the person here doesn't understands that the dream girl is a good lady, not a bitch, just a good lady who doesn't do what she does for idiots nor jackasses there just 'cause the girl is pretty much slutty easy, but rather because she doesn't does the thing for idiots around, just for you.
As a women I don’t like douchbags they are boring 😂 just same old acting hard to get bullshit like where’s the passion
Bruh some woman thought ‘What if I wrote ‘The Game’ but swapped the words ‘man’ and ‘woman’ and somehow it actually worked 🤣
It's not that you're "too nice", it's that your niceness lacks intentionality. If you're always a door mat or always combative, it's gonna be a turn off. As a human we wield swords and shields, maturity is knowing when to use each properly.
I completely agree! It’s one extreme to another, I think there has to be a balance.
THISS people are so one dimensional sometimes its like, yes i like a nice girl but at the same time knowing someone can misbehave (in a legal way hahahahah) its very fun and it keeps you in your toes
lol it so crazy hearing men give the same answer to women. Not judging, it’s true. Just funny
This. Attractive qualities aren’t a unilateral set of traits.
Damn that last part is really well said, can apply to so many areas of life
As a guy I feel like the guys being talked about aren’t necessarily the guys that are good for you 😂. But balance is definitely needed, and the book sounds like it makes good points, however I’m sure people will take it to the extremes 😂
Yea, I was thinking that’s probably not the best dude. I do think you shouldn’t be a doormat(that goes for anybody), should be able to focus on your life too and all, but also not seeming extremely hard to get. Like you said definitely need balance
Yea, as a guy, the guys who these girls wanted don't sound like the best tbh. Sounds like a blessing they didn't choose you. We as men are rewarded for our unchecked hyper-libidos and it's normalized that men are just 'like that'.
Yes, there are dudes who love the chase and all that but, if you have to focus on the chase to get them, they probably arent people of substance tbh. A man who wants to invest his time and energy into you, will tell you. There are emotionally intelligent men who can say, "Im interested in you and Id like to pursue something". (Not as corny as that but u get meee).
Could be a reach, but thats just my opinion. You may get his attention, but once you're settled into the 'relationship', when do you start being yourselves? You'll always be trying to 'hold him'. If someone likes you, you dont need to hold them
.
Also, that 'dream girl' with the popcorn sounds like a nightmare. Yes, I think its very attractive for a woman do her own thing and prioritize herself (as people should), but there should be a balance. It shouldnt be either you're throwing yourself at them or giving them sub-bare minimum.
I'd like to close off by saying, "Courtship is fun". But lets not lose sight of the real reason why we're courting - companionship and life-long partnership. Call me crazy, but I dont think it's insane to:
1. Have a partner who prioritizes themselves but makes room for you as your relationship deepens while not having to choose between you and their own morals or integrity.
2. For you to show genuine interest and not worry about the 'formula' of keeping interest while understanding that you could do everything "right" on paper and still not 'get' the person because literally, 'to each their own' and you may not be for them and vise versa. They want casual, I don't. I should not try to make them think otherwise.
3. To enter into a relationship knowing who they are and what they desire within the relationship while knowing the same for yourself so there is more cohesion and less game playing.
@@coreyshaw18this is so true! My boyfriend and I are really stable because we don’t play mind games. We tend to both be emotionally mature on what we want. He’s not a huffy-puffy masculine guy and I’m not a dainty unreachable girl. We just try to be good people who want partnership that’s why security comes so natural
But these are the guys they want, the other 80% are invisible
@@coreyshaw18This comment needs to be pinned. I hope women don’t take this book or this advice too seriously. Yeah, if you’re dating a dude that’s avoidant or a fuckboy, he’s gonna like the chase. But even then, they don’t realize when you make a man chase, resentment will grow and he will probably just fuck you or leave you.
Why do you have to play mind games and map out a strategy to keep a man? This is a fraudulent relationship.
If you’re a man of intentionality and purpose, this type of behavior will turn you off. Me, personally, I’m walking away from girls like this. I’m going to tell you one time that I like you and I would like to date you. If you show me you’re not interested or play games, goodbye.
Bruh..... is this the female version of "nice guys finish last. Girls only like bad boys" ???
3:58 , nah this is literally intro level manosphere talking points (about getting dates and into relationships) but from the other side.
This is surreal
5:50 its less you being too available and more so we're in a generation where alot of people get spooked by you showing too much interest too quickly. For various reasons (as a generation) we're afraid of commitment. And i think part of it is the expectations that come with that commitment.
But showing reciprocation and availability is appreciated by some of us. Just depends on the guy.
7:50 is just good advice in general
9:15 do women not also pursue things they desire???? Im confused.
12:35 i guarantee like 80% the average looking guys don't even think theyre an option. Personality and confidence plays a role yes, but theyre forgetting guys are their own people with their own flaws and insecurities lol.
15:00 ..... is this women adapting to the hot cold hot strategy used in pick up communities? 🤦♂️ could be so many different reasons for one word answers. 1. He dont care 2. He doesnt like talking over text or is reallly bad at it. Etc.
23:50 people can't read minds. If you don't ask for what you want how will we know? Giving hints can work sometimes but wont work most of the time.
It really sounds like the manosphere but for girls lmao
Theres some good advice mixed in with alot of nonsense and suggestions which are right but for the wrong reasons.
If you cant stand up for yourself, voice your opinions or say "no" its gonna lead to your life feeling unfulfilled cuz youre meeting someone elses needs but they arent meeting yours. And sometimes its your fault for not communicating your needs. If you did communicate them (and i mean communicating unambiguously them not hinting or being passive aggressive) and they still arent responded to, then you have your answer.
This person either doesnt care about your needs or is unable to fulfill them. (Pay attention to their consistent actions not their words)
On the other hand, the dream girl/bad boy rhetoric is also fucking shit up for alot of us. Cuz now we got alot of people who think that their partner will lose interest if they show that they care or put in too much effort.
If you like cooking and want to make a whole ass meal for your partner, do that. Different guys will respond to it differently. But will be guys that appreciate the effort you put in.
If the yatcht interests you, go to the yatcht party.
Don't become a charictature of yourself to impress someone else because you wont be able to maintain it. Youll be unhappy and you'll traumatize the other person when the mask comes off.
Thank you for coming to my tedtalk
Men aren't born chasers, we're told to be this way. I get nothing out of the chase. As an introvert, going after women exhausts me. Women don't always give obvious signs of attraction, so men are quick to give up and move on. We don't want to appear creepy or desperate either. I value honesty and being upfront above all. Women are allowed to pursue or chase as well. Why can't we meet in the middle?
There is some truth to "the nice girl." If she has no backbone, nothing going for herself, too one note, then she's boring. But having a genuinely nice girl who's not playing games with you and is interesting is amazing.
Kinda agree as a female. My ex really liked me, he was immature though, but he really chased me to the point of obsession and told me it was because i was nice and interesting at the same time and he will never find sb like me. Those words made me want him back for quite some time, but he really did not know how relationships worked, even though he was much older than me. It took me a while to not be with him because i felt like he was a child who wanted to learn and do better, but had not learnt to do that and i had to teach him. But i might have had to continue teaching him until the end of my life at my own expense. I chose to not have such a future even if i have to be alone for a long time.
Ok so….you might be autistic and it’s all good I am autistic myself and I do not wanna chase men. BUT…I believe…In the beginning…most men do like some chase. But if we are talking a few years down the road…no you don’t ignore your partner just for shits and giggles…no one would like this. But I’ll also admit…in an argument …where breaking up is an option…not gonna lie…every now and then standing your ground to a man and sometimes to a woman..is needed and sometimes absolutely works. But this isn’t like things you do every day or even every year. I’m just saying there is a middle ground here…and absolutely…men do like a chase now and then. Your back bone comment…I mean this I guess.
Men are born to chase. There use to be a lot more social rules and guidelines to how it was done and what was acceptable. The hate men, be like men movement killed that.
I tried approaching men, they usually start acting helpless, like they’ve never dated before. It’s like they want you to do everything, it’s too exhausting
@@Enriquez2222 That's how it usually feels for men too. It is exhausting to initiate everything and know what the other wants. But if both parties put in effort and gave feedback (cues that aren't vague) it would go smoother. It also depends on how interested someone is in the pursuer.
what drastic thing happened in society that made dating become this gamified, mental gymnastics thing?
social media?
Women happened
Probably late stage capitalism and the decrease in social ability meaning that more and more people stop hanging out with each other and get their information, views about the world and views on other groups of people from internet forums and gurus
@@lastnamefirstname2390 Yes, it's women, because men are just these sweet, innocent, open minded Angels who are just looking to pour their love into women and choose women largely based on meaningful qualities such as values, personality, companionship etc.
Men would never hurt women (provoked or unprovoked), nor would men be superficial in their choices by only choosing women who they consider to be the hottest Instagram looking "Baddie" they can possibly find...
Men are innocent and women are evil... 😑😑
@@lastnamefirstname2390or maybe women don’t want to turn into your mothers….
This book is basically Andrew Tate Red pill for women
Lol yeah. The mama vs hoe part is so unnecessarily extreme. Of course people are gonna simplify it as complete opposites. This book is NOT pulling people together
😂 no cap 😭
And just as effective too! Don't play hard to get when you are hard to love to start with!!!!
That's a lot of these women relationship channels. That's why I like listening to them. It's intriguing that they don't realize they're parroting incel ideology. Didn't know until recently that these channels existed
yeah tbh i agree with you. I don’t like the idea that i should be okay with a man not talking to me for 24 hours. I feel like if we liked each other we should equally talk to each other. If you liked me you wouldn’t ghost me and vice versa. I’m not, not going to talk to someone i don’t like. If i’m feeling someone i’m 100% going to talk to them. That’s just how i am.
As a guy watching this im going to try to give my honest opinion since i would also like to hear a similar viewpoint from a girl perspective. I dont mean to be mean if i come across that way im sorry just trying to give my genuine opinion. English is not my first language,a i will try my best.
1- We should not speak in absolutes since every truth is relative to whichever person is talking at the moment, a lot of variables go into what a gender expects of the other, culture, age, life experience etc etc What we can do is take broad statements that apply to the majority of a group of people, which could only be 100% verifiable with studies which is not possible for every minute detail when we talk about stuff like dating and the ammount of variable to take into account. We can give each other our empirical evidence and discuss.
2- If i am truly interested in a girl im not going to stop liking her if she is too available
3- I personally like nice girls, the ones that seem to have a lot of empathy, motherly vibes, doesnt like to hate, bubbly, positive, comes across as feminine to me which is attractive, i dont like the brash, loud, abnoxious, hateful, basically similar to what you would picture the stereotypical male sports fan. (everyone is human not to say that just because sometimes you get upset it makes you less atractive, the overall day to day vibe)
4- i have noticed that when a girl seems busy and difficult to plan with i might start peeking my interest early on when i dont know much about her but it is temporary since this getting to know someone phase is not permanent and it tends to fizzle out, not to mention it is dangerous because if you come across as too busy it can be interpreted as you simply not being THAT interest and i will back off. I and a lot of men have learnt that mixed signals = no . A woman will make you know if she is interested, if its not a hell ye then its a hell no. The last thing you want to do as a man is make a woman uncomfortable.
5- I would like to give my 2 cents on something, if a guy is only chasing you after you change your natural way of being, it will never workout unless you are willing to play an act until the day you die. Not a comfy way to live life.
6- dating apps is a terrible way of taking notes about the other gender since it is so imbalanced in the proportions of men to women that people adapt in surprising ways, women are the vast minority which gives them, in general, exponential more ammount of matches than men which makes them extra picky because you only have so much time to answer all the matches, it gets too overwhelming and you start to reject men by the most minimal and useless details. This makes ghosting very prevalent, which forces men to try to speak to multiple women at once even if you dont want to if you even want a chance to get a date, this obviously only worsens the problem. I could go on forever but this would get too big. We can discuss this more in depth
7- yes men will pursue a woman we want, because we are SOCIALLY wired to be that way, although it has to be noted pursuing and chasing are different things which in the context of dating and everyones personal limits of the definitions are very different from person to person, someones chasing might be someone elses stalking. Good men will pursue you until you show no interest, there will come a time which he could keep going and looking creepy if you are not interested or if you are interested you will like it, men with good intentions will stop before that point, again, if its not a hell ye then its a hell no. I dont believe in chasing dont expect good men to chase. pursueing yes, chasing no.
8- 10:05 i feel like we are speaking in black and whites, no man and no woman wants a pushover, but if you are ONLY and ALWAYS thinking about yourself you will come across as the opposite which is not any better. People want someone who cares about them and that is confident. Life is more complex than the binary way of thinking and the internet seems to amplify this problem imo.
9- it feels like this is the female version of the redpill for some reason, more so giving made up answers to a problem with the sole porpuse of making people feel good and saying its not their fault its the other genders fault.
10- 10:40 up until now "nice girl" has been framed as someone that is a pushover and clingy etc etc something unhealthy that no one obviously shoulld be. which is not what it is, someone nice is someone nice. it seems to me someone is trying to frame something that is seen as a good general caractheristic as "guys this is actually bad im going to stop being this" . And "the dream girl" that without framing is seen as the goal for what to be if you are a girl, but it is being overwritten as someone who "doesnt care" that is egotistical and only prioritzes herself. doesnt seem healthy. redpill vibes of the : "btw guys, women actually only want guys that treat them bad and cheat"
11- i didnt read the book this is my reaction to the examples of the video obviously, if i get more time and energy i might add more of my ideas, only watched until minute 13:30.
I genuinely appreciated your response, and you made some incredible points. Also, the fact that English isn’t your first language, and you were able to professionally articulate this response, is very admirable.
you literally Dunked it bro, I laughed at the popcorn example because, if I were giving it my all when planning dates and that's all a girl did in return, Massive Turn off. best believe I'm not asking her out again😂
Plus, saying that men like the chase is basically advocating for men to give it their all while the girl is busy being a dream girl. isn't that basically being a "nice guy"? Now we've come full circle. This is not a gender attraction thing, everyone likes nice people and they are different from door mats in the sense that the later is fine with little or no reciprocation!
Point 4 and 7 are award winners and it applies to both genders. it all goes both ways. advice like the ones in that book make things too complicated.
@@brifflings someone get this nigga a medal. He making so much sense to all the men. Women please take notes and this advice will take you so much further than a book teaching you to be a narcissist.
exact same I was thinking as a guy watching this video.
Thanks for sharing! I agree that there is some misconceptions going on here from both sides about the other sex
As a man, I can say confidently that the "Dream girl" is not what men are interested in. Women who are: Kind, feminine, nurturing and yet are mature adults is what mature men are interested in.
Thank you for clearing this up. 💛
Exactly what I am trying to say
"Men dont like good girls"
Well I'm bad at alot of things and I still get no play so somebody is lying 🤷🏾♀️
😂😂😂😂😂
I think actually really insecure people usually like those stuck up bad people, it is like magnets. So if you are well balanced you should attract a well balanced person as well.
I loved the "We all are confident independent women in this chanel" I'm a 22 yo guy trying his best to understand women, being taught by women.
Find you a sweet girl that's got your back. Don't use her, show her the reason why you're best choice and that her actions to make you happy aren't in vain. You shouldn't think singular in a relationship, but how you can do things that work well for both of you.
Nice girls are rare. And they're usually flipped to inconsiderate bitches...I mean dream girls, after dealing with a guy that took them from granted. Don't be that guy. If a nice girl goes out her way, reciprocate the energy, then do the same for her.
Lmao good luck. Go watch a man's channel if you want to learn about these things called women.
Don’t listen to women on how to get women. Most of them don’t even know what they want so how can they tell anyone what they want
As a bisexual women I can say that dating women isn’t that different to dating guys in a lot of ways it’s about communication and whether you guys actually get eachother
@xeternalflowerx1978 I think it balls down to whether or not you like each other. Cause I can understand and get exactly where you're coming from and still not care about anything you're talking about. Why you ask? Cause I know you're not going anywhere. It's all about the reciprocation of effort. Unfortunately in most couples there always one that likes the other more. takes time and energy to do effectively.
So this is the book making all these women narcissistic. Men are not toys you can play with. Telling your man you just chose him but don’t love him is crazy af and I would dump my girl on the spot. Bro just put in effort and make sure it’s reciprocated if not leave. Men do like good girls. Who wants a toxic narcissist in a relationship that sounds so exhausting. All guys are asking for is you to have hobbies, a job and a good heart. Set boundaries if you have them and he should respect them. If your man is “moving mad” against you for some reason obviously call him out because that’s communication. You’re not a bitch for communicating your feelings, your human damn it!!! Men and women need to start teaming up and becoming one unit again. Playing games like this is not worth it. This goes for anyone “if there attracted to you, you can’t do nothing wrong, if they are not attracted, you can’t do anything right.” One word replies go both ways. I just know that means she’s not fucking with me and I unmatch. If I see effort I put effort. Don’t let the world change your kindness. Let all the toxic weirdos traumatize each other.
well said
@@JugglernautNr9 Ayyy, I agree with this comment too. This goes both ways and will make the world a better place to live in.
Glad I saw this cl, cuz atp it's getting confusing with all these rules they keep setting
I'm a guy and I find most of the statements you mentioned from the book kinda stupid (only going off what you said, i haven't read it myself). Yes independence and confidence are attractive and clingyness/an obvious need for validation from others isn't, but I don't get how that's related to gender. The whole "men like to chase" narrative and "they like women who are selfish/hard to get" etc is a game you can play, but it's a terrible foundation for a proper relationship. Being independent is great, but why fake a lack of interest. I personally struggle to "flirt" or show interest in a charming but obvious way, so when I feel like someone likes or even approaches me I feel charmed and more than happy to give it a go. Putting yourself first is important for everyone and a foundation for good self esteem. That does not mean that you won't do someone a favour ever, but just not at the cost of your own well-being. Have standards - not the "6 figures 6 feet" kinda nonsense, but you can expect more than the bare minimum and someone that shows no effort at all. If I ask you to pick a restaurant, "I'll go wherever you go" is a useless answer because I could have picked it myself if I wanted to, and most people have some kind of preference anyway at least when it comes to food right?
13:30 this was interesting because that's usually my/the guy's experience on dating apps (getting one line answers etc) but that's because guy's have way less matches/options on the apps because there are so many of them, so they have to try extra hard with the matches they get. Girls have a lot more likes/matches on average, and assuming that applies to you as well, I would just think "why even bother trying to talk to this brick wall of a guy" an move on..? I don't know the context but as soon as someone deliberately puts in little to no effort into a conversation, it's always better to just leave it as you deserve better! But again this holds for everyone independent of gender or orientation.
Also I hate this thought of "I like a women who puts me in my place if I'm being a jerk" - how about not being a jerk in the first place, it's not that difficult.
Ok that's enough now just some ramblings
They seem to think that doing to good men what trashy men do to them is a successful strategy and the birth rates are definitely going to suffer for it.
Personally, I don’t believe playing games work. If a guy likes you he’ll make things happen. Obviously don’t bend over backwards for anyone, that’s basic self respect. But you don’t need to purposefully act uninterested to get him to like you.
I think when it comes to dating we blame a lot on ourselves but at the end of the day we can’t control other people’s actions. Sometimes things don’t work out because you just weren’t meant for each other.
Playing silly childish games is dumb like just accept rejection of a guy don’t want to have sex with you accept that
As a married dude, this video and all the "advice" in it is terrible. The book is literally just confusing having healthy boundaries and self-respect for being rude and inconsiderate. Men don't like door mats because we want to date a person with wants, needs, hopes, dreams, opinions, and ambitions, not some vain reflection of what you think we want. Yes have boundaries, have wants and hopes, and other things going on in your life, but if you're constantly shoving your man aside for X,Y, and Z he isn't going to keep chasing you, he's going to move on. Unless he has zero self respect and now you've just inverted the problem. Men do not "need" the chase, we aren't fucking dogs and women aren't treats on a piece of string to be dangled around. Men want to know that we matter, that we have a place in your life in the same way I assume women want to know the same. Constantly treating your partner like shit and never reciprocating any effort isn't something to aspire to just because you're a woman. It isn't going to lead to any sort of healthy relationship anyway.
There is a middle ground between being a non person door mat and being a rude, inconsiderate bitch.
Relationships are about give and take. If one person is always giving and never taking the relationship will fail, if one person is always taking and never giving the relationship will also fail. Man or woman.
*People respect people who respect themselves* have some self respect and treat your partner with the same otherwise all your gonna get is a string of failed toxic relationships that go nowhere.
Nah I gotta disagree with this
The prize is the success of the relationship. Not each other.
i love this
100% - It’s not about FINDING the best partner. It’s about BUILDING the best relationship.
So the PRIZE of a relationship isn't TWO people gettin along well????
The PRIZE is your in a good relationship.... huh????
There's nothing hotter than reciprocity. The most attractive thing a woman can do is be attracted to me the way I'm attracted to her
And if women are direct about it without playing any mind games that makes the reciprocity next level
Yes! The whole chase narrative is dumb, way better to think about it as a dance: you are both in it. When both sides see the reciprocity and actually do something about it.
I don't think any men relate to this? I don't want to banter with anyone, especially bot my wife. Having atittude just shows insecurity
Legit, if a girl makes my life harder/worse instead of easier/better.... I'm gonna stop talking to her really quick!
I love healthy banter but I grew up around people sharing their different views and challenging each other for fun. Mentally stimulating.
@@j_bubblez279Yeah, I don't think this book is talking about banter, it sounds like starting straight up arguments/bullying
As a guy I find this hilarious because it’s the exact messaging and rhetoric that cringe red pill dating gurus have for us.
The truth is clinginess and desperation isn’t attractive but neither is having such arbitrarily high standards and playing games. It leads to this stupid stand off where both guy and girl are convinced that the other one has to bend to their will, text them first, etc.
The same way women will see and be turned off by guys who are very clearly trying too hard to be the opposite of a nice guy, by negging, being a dick, etc. I would be turned off by a girl that’s clearly trying to get me to chase them, give the runaround, get me to jump through hoops to win their affection. It’s cringe both ways.
And both ways there are enough people that have low enough self respect for it to work on them. Men who let themselves get lead around on chases become the clingy “simps” that the redpill wants to move away from, women who let guys walk all over them become the “pick me’s” that this book/movement is trying to move away from.
You can stand up for yourself and disagree with someone with out being a pain to be around. It's really more so the context of what you're doing. For example, if you can't hang out tonight and we had a date planned, the BEST THING TO DO is say "I can't do tonight, can we plan something else another day" and then ACTUALLY FOLLOW UP on this. You don't need to be this girlboss "everything is about me" attitude, just find ways to show your interested with out being a doormat.
Exactly. Idk why women struggle with this so much. Their parents never taught them boundaries or critical thinking.
Nahh I wouldn't say a lack of teaching, more of an excess of main stream bs being crammed in their heads about how dudes think, and most of it is wrong lol
"I can tell that this woman will let me do anything."
This doesn't lead to boredom. This is just a toxic man who has no discipline. "
I think there is a misunderstanding here. It's not about being "nice" that is the problem here, it's about being "needy" and having no personality 6:37. If you are saying yes to everything and have no own will of course other people won't find that attractive. We men want to date someone who knows what they want, we want someone with a spine, we want someone that chose us intentionally, who knows what they want. But don't fall into the other extreme of playing "hard to get", that can ruin everything very fast. If he is investing, invest back and don't make it ultra hard for him. Also don't be always "passive investing" (saying yes to his dates but doing nothing more), you can also come up with ideas, suggest dates or meetups, it doesnt have to be always him. The investment can feel very onesided very quickly and that's a turnoff. Be a kind, normal human being with standards, nothing more, nothing less.
This^
Me watching this and not relating 💀
it was a wake up call for me too
Word
@@ChristinaAaliyah This is bad advice the whole book will just get you banged and left. Mothers are wives! We need her to act as a mother! Especially if you want children. If I don't see the traits of a mother why would I make you one?
As a guy who is in a long term relationship, the man this book describes is maybe 5% of guys. I would recommend women put very little stock what that book says if they want to be happy. I have a few points here so read the ones you find interesting and TLDR at bottom. I know many many legitimately good dudes that would absolutely die to have a "nice girl", they are often either never given a chance, or are too scared to try to get one and obviously never get approached either. Thats probably 50% of the dudes i know. 15% are not good guys and dont have anyone, 30% have someone, and that last 5% that this book describes are the ones that all of the nice girls let through the door. I personally know this man is not given a chance by you alone, and these men do not end up happy or in good relationships a majority of the time, so stop tryin to find a way to get them to pick you.
Firstly, these things that the book tells you to do makes bad relationships more interesting and makes good relationships harder. When my partner would do any of these things listed in the book, it did not make me want her more, it made the relationship worse. We would get through them, but it would be better if we avoided them. The exception to this is that you should have respect for yourself, but dont be self centered as the book explains. The "you do it for me" mentality is toxic, and the best mentality is "we both do as much as we can for each other", so dont be afraid to show love through action or work because it will show them they love you, but you can do that while having respect for yourself. EXAMPLE. When my gf and i would find times to call, i would always have to work around her schedule and not vice versa, and would have to sideline things to get calls in. I still did it because i dont mind sacrificing, but communicated that it was a 1 way sacrifice and it slowly improved.
Secondly, if you feel like you are the tread on nice girl in this scenerio, I personally assure you that there are many many good guys out there waiting to find you who would love to match the effort you put in without a second though. My recommendation is twofold. One, is to be less picky, but hear me out. When you are picky, the one you do pick is also the one that most other women pick. If after 10 nos you hit a maybe, that same man is the maybe for a lot of other girls, and that man is often but not always spoiled by being able to choose between a good few girls giving him anything. Open your range to more of the nos. I know its easier said than done, but they are much much less likely to tread on you. Think about it like this: these men are in your situation, but without even being given the shot.
Recommendation Two is to be open towards approaching men. I know it is hard, but lots of guys are too scared of rejection to try, and weather its warranted or not, between the threat of S misconduct allegations, having the person they approach recount the event in a bad light online, or god forbid the person approached have a friend record and post it in a negative light, are top reasons as to why guys might not want to take the risk. These might be rare cases, but we have all seen them online, and guys are not above being too scared on the extremes to decide against it. And if a guy does approach you, it is with all these fears in mind, so be aware of that. Separately, it does not help that girls are statistically more likely to reject than guys, so even extremes excluded, they are likely to get put down, it just depends on how hardly. My Gf has told me that she thinks its easy for guys to approach and thats just not true. Getting turned down is crushing for most guys, and im not saying its easy for ladies to do it, but at consider trying, and at the very least, give guys a few minutes to get to know them before you turn them away, and let guys down kindly if you have to let them down. "well hey, it was nice talking to you, but do you mind if I go back to talking with my friends?" like that. And if you want a way to get some talk started (please try, guys are very willing to talk if they are approached unless you are falling over yourself drunk) "hey, i saw you a few minutes ago and I just wanted to know how you are doing/how you like this place/ what you are drinking, ect..."
TLDR, If you felt like this book describes your issue, dont listen to the books advice. The guys it describes are mostly not going to end up in good relationships so dont make it with you, and the advice is destructive of the good relationships you could have. And those good relationships you could have are normally with guys who dont pass the eye test, so consider changing your criteria, and making the first move.
Amen. Most accurate response for this thread.
Im a man that usually agrees with most of your opinions, but this entire video is a huge miss.
All the advice in here is the complete opposite of what we are looking for in a woman,and this going to keep a lot of yall perpetually single and ghosted.
Exactly. And the author of the book isn’t even a man. How can a woman know what men want in a woman? Like why does she speak for us when shes not even one of us?
Gotta remember the type of men a lot of women usually go for when they’re young.
All I hear about is what men want in a woman, only a small percentage of you speak about how you’ll actually add to a woman’s life. I’m fine with being perpetually single, literally just sounds like yall want me to be your battery at this point
Be single then@@Enriquez2222
This has strong "Don't play hard to get when you are already hard to love" energy to me.
This is the "Why women love assholes?" But flipped.
I, as a guy, am generally looking for someone who can add to my life. My belief is a woman should reciprocate the energy that a man is giving.
However, any guy that doesn't want a "Nice Girl" is more than likely not a man that you would actively want, they might be fun in the moment, but over all probably is not the best choice for you.
At 6:35 when you talk about a "dream girl" wouldn't make any effort to impress, I feel that it is more so guys wouldn't want a girl that doesn't have anything else going on. If their entire personality would revolve around the person that they are dating in a codependent way, that can definitely turn some guys off because it can feel draining at times. I dated a girl at the time that was codependent and I felt like she was an emotional vampire at times. It was constant comparison of myself against other guys and she relied on me to make her happy when she never made the effort to fix anything.
I’m glad the men are catching on. I’m a self proclaimed recovering nice guy (not proud of that) standing at 5’7. I train and work out, I’m a doctor as well, but lived a miserable social life.
I came from the self acceptance video (I think titled why no one hangs with ugly people) and though I understand this channel is primarily geared to women, this advice really is the opposite side to the same toxic coin. If I don’t see you putting in the effort you require me to, trying to be the “dream girl”, I’m leaving. Don’t let this video or book fool you.
I have a feeling that this is one of those moments where how things should be isn't how they are. Like, we should all just appreciate each other and be kind and look for that in relationships but the reality is that people like mean people, or people that don't show them affection. Think about the ex you couldn't get over vs the one it was easy to get over. Most likely the one you couldn't get over was the mean/unaffectionate one. Tho I don't know I haven't been dating for that long.
@@kashimbanguni7404 in a perfect world I’d agree. Unfortunately there’s a large outlook for self interest so appreciation only comes from “what can you do for me” rather than “I like you for who your are”.
@@gamorapotter9946 I see you edited your comment mentioning something about me thinking my career was all I needed, and therefore I already know this reply isn’t in good faith. I 1. Didn’t say that’s all I needed, and 2. You completely derailed my comment to justify manipulating men? That’s wild. But I’m not surprised.
@@gamorapotter9946 “the girl you probably ignored”
So you create a straw man and go down this hypoghettical, pull up some pseudo intellectual argument to reverse this on me and men because *checks notes* we don’t like being manipulated either? We aren’t progressing anywhere long as your kind is doing this. You can call out the system all you want, but abusing it with justification ain’t it
Thinking being a “nice girl” is undesirable is kinda wild to me 😂😂😂 But I get where it's coming from. If the guy is only interested in short-term, the “nice girl” is guaranteed to lose. Personally, id not count that as a loss…
Exactly if the person isn’t showing effort why are you bothered. Especially as a woman who has more options than what a man does
if a man doesn’t appreciate you doing extra effort he’s simply just not one… girls please don’t waste your time on little unappreciative boys.
If a woman trys to get me to chase. She's lost me permanently.
This is literally the alpha-male manosphere stuff but on the female side
To be honest this is exhausting. I don't understand how in one breath people can say don't make men the center of your world. But then turn around and tell you to create your own world in order to get a man. Somehow I always end up getting the vibe that we're making men the center of our world without letting men know that they're the center of our world. I understand that people are complex but I feel like we're so complex in the wrong ways.
👏👏👏👏✨
I hear some people saying they dont want obnoxious, brash, loud women or a girl who has an attitude,i don't think that whats the video is about. i just think a girl has to know her worth in a relationship, yeah she'll show him a green card if she's genuinely interested but she shouldn't exchange the roles.
Honestly as a guy it feels like if I am also always available and always ready to move things around, I am also not gonna be very attractive to women, It just sounds like human behavior that would show up even amongst friends. I think it’s pretty obvious when someone is self assured and responds early vs someone that is trying too hard, and that goes for all genders
Instead of tactics and manipulation for me work when I’m 100 honest, people feels the lie honesty is magnetic because is key for authenticity
0:51 Deperate and eager are not synonyms for "Nice".
totally
Self proclaimed nice girls are
The thing is that guys are also told not to give too much so in the end we're just left with 2 dry ass ppl not giving the effort
It really seems like we’re talking past each other on this relationship thing. As a man, it’s like both sides are wrong, both the men talking about what women want and women talking about what men want. I think there are tons of misconceptions about the other sex on both sides, and an over inflation of the more rare and outlandish situations bc that’s what’s getting the most views on social media.
If white people want to know about black people, maybe they should actually talk to black people instead of their other white friends who don’t talk to black people about black people. Same thing with men and women. Taking this approach will only end in a group think echo chamber of people sharing flawed views, thinking they’re right just bc their group validates them even though it’s incoherent with reality.
It’s probably best to just be as open and honest with whoever’s right in front of you specifically about desires and expectations than to play this exhausting guessing game from both sides with these terrible situationships. Imo, that’s probably the biggest turn off for gen z. We’re more time efficient and don’t want to invest where we see no beneficial outcome or in something that’s coming off as too risky and confusing
I feel like making sweeping generalizations about what men or women want is bad. This video is about people pleasers. People don’t want to date people pleasers.
Like I feel like this book and your video are essentially sexist
This is why dating is horrible nowadays. Guys are told not to chase it’s weird and women are told not to chase it cuz it’s unattractive. Be yourself and it’ll work out
This sounds like the same type of things guys say. "dont text her back to fast, let her want your attention." The silent treatment portion at 13:50 is something i always run into woth women. Trying desperately to have some form of a conversation with one word answers. Cooking together is awesome but if theyre only making popcorn and their show of care is if id want it in Tupperware? Id end that attempt. Texting back immediately isnt needed but if im waiting a day or more every time immakes feel like im wasting my time and i move on. It feels like on dating apps or even bar meetings, its really just bottom of the barrel
there’s no “nice girl” or “dream girl”. people regardless of gender are attracted to self-respecting people who are secure in themselves and do not sacrifice themselves for validation.
As a man who speaks to a lot of men about dating this is literally the opposite of what were looking for from women. But people can act the way they want to but they'll have to live with those choices. You definitely shouldnt be a door mat though thats not okay either.
Thank you for clearing this up 💛
imo the "thrill of the chase" is totally irrelevant and just a specific observation of a more general phenomenon that when people have options they will select the best option and going after a more desirable option requires more effort or "chasing" as it were. Ambivalent behavior by a person after a date is usually because they have better options not because the other person didn't behave a very specific way to make them attracted.
This whole video is a guide on women becoming the men they hate to love. The problem is that those men don’t like any of the stuff the women on TikTok are telling young girls to do. How many of those women giving advice have a super successful, super attractive, super etc. man that loves and adores them?
I can only speak for myself, but showing enthusiasm for and connection with *me specifically* because of something we have in common is hot, people-pleasing and mirroring as general personality traits don't mean much either way, but aloofness and an attitude of "I'm the prize" are a huge turn-off. Same goes for being hit on: it's hot if it's based on them seeing something special in you that's not often appreciated, not really if it's "I'm horny and you're here", but worst of all is if they just see physical intimacy as bait to get something else. The answer isn't to always be more closed off or "hard to get", but to sincerely express your preferences. Plenty of men don't want to "chase" or "win the prize", but just like most women, they want to feel like they have a special connection to the person they are dating, that they're not just the one who happened to be around at the time. There are people out there who want "blank slate" partners who can be moulded into anything, or who want to start with a "wild" partner and "tame" them to their wishes, but these are generally people you should avoid, it's much better to be with someone who expects you to come with your own likes and dislikes that will form part of the relationship.
This make zero sense, I'm a 25 y/o guy, who has never held hands, never kissed, and never had a girlfriend, and not through a lack of trying, I have gone on 5 different dates, and tried my hardest each time, I took notes when they talked to me, I made plans months in advance, I wore make-up and nice cloths, etc. And they all rejected me after the first date, one of them looked like she was going to throw up when I asked her to hold hands.
I wish I had a woman who chased me.
I see guys who have 3 or 4 women fighting over him at the same time, I don't know how they do it.
They don't wear make-up for a start.
I know someone who just got out of a relationship with her jerk of a boyfriend, but she was a total doormat to him despite considering herself confident. They always did what he wanted to do and would never consider her feelings. She would always go out of her way to meet him, and she spent ages caring for him when he got seriously injured. He SUCKED. I'm not saying anyone should be with a guy like that, but know your worth. He's not going to start treating you well if he never had to in the first place. A relationship isn't supposed to feel like you're constantly putting yourself in stress and discomfort to make someone else happy. ❤
It makes it look like there are only two options: either be a door mat or get a door mat. If the other part (forget genders here) is putting some effort and you are so busy that your dinner plan is popcorn... If they stay, they are a door mat!
Don't get me wrong, it can work short term but that's not gonna last. Relationships are a give and take, it will never be perfectly balanced, but both parts need to be available and help each other.
I've never been all that pretty or smart but for some unknown reason i have been very satisfied with myself for as long as i can remember. From that i've noticed how easily i, a completely average woman, can attract guys. Mostly online because, again, they're attracted to my personality more than anything. And i've noticed the attraction tends to only increase when i word not being interested in a relationship. (They're more often than not super respectful about it, but i can tell from small hints and such their feelings only increase.) My "motto for love" has always been to become the person i would want to be in a relationahip with (platonic or romantic) and just let the dudes who are into that come to me.
As a man, if the girl I like is playing hard to get, I assume she's not interested. If she is nice, I'm interested in pursuing. Dream girls just have that "stay single" energy. Very ironic how you talk about self worth, but dont realize that puttting low effort in your dates ends up with partners who have no self worth.
Before I watch any further past the intro, I would like to clarify to the nice girls/good girls that many men do in fact like nice & wholesome girls. Perhaps, you haven't met your match yet cause those types of guys are more reserved & patient when it comes to dating.
Might edit this by adding a perspective with what's been said
I agree with the points made. Personally, I cannot physically get myself to be with a woman who is a push over. I need her to have boundaries, because I think it's healthy for her & our potential relationship. However, I don't think girls need to be entirely relinquish the nice girl characteristics that can be balanced out. I don't think it's attractive when women think they're a prize & behave like a man should chase them. I think balance is what's most attractive. Seeing that a woman has self-respect, self-assurance & confidence, but also humility and nurturing characteristics is so refreshing. That's the type of woman I personally fall the hardest for. She makes me anticipate stability, but also I know that she will hold me accountable with the hopes of making the relationship work
You’re definitely right, this video is for the women that DATE men. The most important fact of this however is that the men considered date-worthy are not 1:1 with single women.
80% of men don’t need a chase. However if your’re going on a date with a man, 9/10 he’s capable of dating other women and that level of options for a man opens the door for the whole “men chasing after what they can’t have” concept which exists for anyone with a plethora of potential partners including women.
Essentially, Women are great at filtering for men; but they all filter for a relative archetype of man of which they have to filter themselves.
First of all, I'm a new subscriber. Your content is pointed and thought provoking. So, the idea of "the chase" often uses the metaphor of hunting, where a man is hunting and the pursuit is the thrill. I would agree with this with men who are chasing people as a means of fulfilment, as opposed to acknowledging that fulfillment is the means by which one can develop healthy relationships.
For example, there are men who, when put into the forest with an axe, will chop the forest down until there are no more trees. The fallen trees hold no value other than to gratify a sense of accomplishment, but the act of chopping down trees is more appealing than utilizing the fallen timber to build a house or develop land. This is born from that maximizer mind set you mentioned in another video. Chop bigger and bigger trees, thoughtless consumption of the environment as means to keep insecurity at bay. In other words, the typical chaser is never satisfied when the hunt ends. Trying to maintain the attention of a chaser will be a constant expenditure of energy for both parties. Once the chased out distances the chaser, or the chaser finally catches up, the chase ends and the game ends. There is no satisfactory end state for this dynamic.
As a man who has broken up with good women, "nice" women, it was 100% brought about by my own insecurities. Now, I'm no chaser, but my insecurity was a matter of being uncertain of the future. Thoughts about how I might provide for this woman, how would I be able to raise children, am I the type of person that can maintain a healthy relationship in the long term? Will I devolve into some jaded middle aged bastard? Am I capable of doing right by them? Those possibilities and ideas were a threat to my own peace of mind. Insecurity is the driving force for relationships to fall apart or to become a festering, malignant, codependent mess.
Now, on to the idea of being nice. Being nice and kind and gentle, in sincerity, is admirable and respectable. It's a great state of being to be achieved and embraced. The problem is insecure people encourage insecurity in others. Hurt people hurt people. Unfortunately, this effect has been blown out of proportion in the social scene. The accommodating and generous nature of good people has lead to a dialog where folks feel like they need to change their nature to attract an idea of a person, an ideal. This is where the nature of being nice can lead one to betray their own identity. There should be an acknowledgement of whether of not an individual is a match for you romantically. Instead, there's a cloying impulse to change one's own nature in pursuit of the idea of a person. One never acknowledges the one being pursued, only the idea of that person.
That's the big think. If one changes their nature to pursue the idea of a person, the foundation of that relationship is based upon a fantasy, a convenient deception of the self. One must first acknowledge and understand the individual in front of them and deem that person worth pursuit and admiration, along with an understanding of shared values. It is only then that compromise and adaptation in the relationship can take place from a grounded and healthy perspective.
It goes both ways. Don't put the person you're pursuing in front of you. Value yourself first
We‘re not genres we are people.
Sounds like what it really boils down to is having and maintaining a sense of self.
✨ Keep up your beauty and self care, have a social life or at least close friends to share life with, have hobbies and passions that bring you happiness, keep challenging your mind by learning new things, have a career or business to grow with.
Most of all, don’t be afraid to speak up for yourself. It’s okay to have boundaries and different opinions. You don’t have to morph into the Barbie doll you think men want
Inspiring pursuit and keeping a man’s interest has a less to do with the man and more to do with just taking care of yourself.
Of course show interest in connecting to him too. Many women think being cold and aloof is the solution and it’s not.
It’s a nuanced subject though. Some of those quotes they were reading from men.. it sounds like they purposely mess up to get a woman angry at them. Can you imagine living with a man like that? It sounds like he wants a mom to scold him. I don’t want to have to scold a man into behaving properly. Of course speak up when necessary but that’s different than the guys who are purposely taking advantage and pushing boundaries to see your reaction.
I have a feeling that this is one of those moments where how things should be isn't how they are. Like, we should all just appreciate each other and be kind and look for that in relationships but the reality is that people like mean people, or people that don't show them affection. Think about the ex you couldn't get over vs the one it was easy to get over. Most likely the one you couldn't get over was the mean/unaffectionate one. Tho I don't know I haven't been dating for that long.
I tried being the nice girl for so long, and in the most ironic turn of events, I was the one who got bored. I did this because people always tell me that I am too much, too smart and every other "too much" in the world. Once I released the need to hide myself, I stopped playing the nice girl game and have had better romantic interactions as a result.
This is me adding my two cents as a high schooler.
English isn't my first language so imma try my best 😢.
I'm a pretty open person when it comes to affection. If I like you, there's a chance you know bc I will put in the effort y'know? Be the "Nice girl" but I only act like that bc that's how I want my future s/o to be with me.
When I like someone, friend or crush I like to know everything about them and stuff like that, there's just something nice
about spending the entire day with someone who makes you happy and seeing that you make them happy.
As a result, though, a lot of people tend to see me as overbearing, and I get it, even though I think I go overboard sometimes but I love being the "nice girl" (depending on the guy ofc).
Hear me out... but it's actually something I pride myself on. Nobody around me so far is willing to be "the nice girl" for anyone, basically almost everyone I know is self serving and talk to you when they don't have a choice so to be that someone who makes other people feel wanted is- I think, one of my best qualities. But then again, everything depends on context and what not.
yh that's it, if it's not cohesive or didn't add anything to the conversation sorry for wasting your time 🥲.
(Side note: Balance and context are important people)
Just wanted to give my perspective as a dude currently in the dating game - M26, Straight
I read a comment from here which I resonate heavily with which stated that “chasing” in this context might be misconstrued as “pursuing”. When I was growing up in my late teenage years, I felt more desperate for a date causing me to feel negative emotions about “chasing” the right girl. I more-so thought that the perfect girl would fall into my lap and dismissed the effort that had to be put in to establish a good relationship. ie) I was pretty insecure.
Now that I’m starting to get in my late 20’s, I’ve developed a better sense of self and with that came an epiphany that “pursuing” someone you love is indeed invigorating! In this context it shouldn’t be desperate or creepy if you approach someone with the utmost respect for their wellbeing and are generally confident and have the tools (eg. Mantras, etc.) to anchor yourself through the waves of self-doubt. Moreover, the “pursuit” can be a fun process provided the interactions you have are respectful and you’re getting positive signs they like you back. Thanks for coming to my TedTalk 🤣
Honestly, as a guy I feel like this describes my past relationship, except the roles were reversed. I would try everything to make things easier for her, to the point that she would get upset with me for not having desires of my own. I was so desperate to keep her by my side since just expending time together and seeing her smile put me at ease.
This has caused a bit of burn out in the end, so I would actually want to be shown interest and be the one getting chased. Again, as a guy.
To me chasing only makes sense when I'm actually into someone, but dating apps are weird because most women just don't write anything about themselves. They just post pictures of them in their bikinis. You need to tell the person that you like them before you can actually talk to them, that feels weirdly backwards unless you're just there for the looks or validation.
I’d easily confuse a woman wanting to give me the chase as them not being interested. After a couple of hesitations to want to hang out or being dry over text so I’d dig deeper into the conversation, I’d bail simply due to
1. Not wanting to seem desperate
2. Not wanting to potentially make a girl uncomfortable for continue to try to pursue if she’s not interested
3. Not wasting my time pursuing a girl who’s not interested
I think the best way for both men and woman is to be honest and upfront with your feelings and not play the hard to get game because that’ll ensure that both parties on on the same wavelength and give both the most honest and genuine experience
Oh hell. Kids, please don’t buy into this garbage. My wife and I have been friends since grade school (circa 1995), we’ve been together since 2007 and married since 2012. One of the things that drew me to her and keep me 100% loyal is that’s she’s nice to me. It’s ok to go after a guy that you like.
My wife asked me out and even proposed to me. In return, I bust my ass for her and our now two children. The only thing that I’m “chasing” is a better life for my wife and kids. If I were somehow saddled with a woman as described in this book, I would definitely leave (or not engaged with in the first place).
Unfortunately, both women and men are advised to be toxic to each other in the name of “attraction.” It’s truly perplexing that anyone, male or female, would find being dismissed or mistreated as being something desirable.
In a way , being nice is like you trying to suppress your true self and trying to adapt and adjust to what the other person wants , that will become a problem in the long run. People who get completely infatuated and obsessed with someone is the kinda person who will put in so much effort to get attention and affection in return , but that will definitely not last , thats where the " relationship was good when it was boyfriend-girlfriend but now that they are married they take them for granted and don't put in anymore effort like they used to " type of situations arise. Trying to fake a personality or pretend to be something that's not the real you won't last long so in the long run you'll have to stop pretending and be your authentic self so if that was a key element of your relationship then you build your relationship on bad fundamentals to begin with. Confidence is definitely attractive. So is a good character , personality and genuine kindness. Without all these things the relationship is destined to be short lived and end up in a failure.
Taking advice from women on what men want and like is a very wrong or incomplete way to approach things . Best thing is to ask male friends who don't have a romantic interest in you and whom you can trust and rely on to tell you what they think , coz majority of the cases that's the best advice which will get good results !
Have heard women say their interest in a man increases if he doesn't show any signs of interest in them , that's definitely not the case with men. If they like you they will try to go above and beyond to convince you that they like you , but as you mature and evolve you realise trying to bribe someone into a relationship by going way beyond your normal will only last so long and then resentment sets in , then with wisdom and experience men stop chasing women and then go for equal effort and participation as the better choice. An attractive woman gets the attention of a man very quickly , but if there's nothing else other than good looks that interest goes down pretty quickly . If someone is not very attractive , then it just means it'll take time to get to know the person and then slowly an organic and authentic relationship might bloom from there , that's why most guys try to be friends with a girl they like to get to know more about them before telling them they are interested in a romantic relationship , but often women friendzone such people. So the best advice for a woman will be to first develop a friendship and get to know more about the other person and then put your interest across , in most cases men are more welcoming of that than vice versa.
Most guys are honestly looking for a girl that seems interested in them, but also gives them the space to lead. Good Communication is a huge turn on. Honestly saying what you can tolerate and what you can’t will set up healthy boundaries. But an emphasis on showing some type of interest in the guy will get you a long way. If you feel like you have to act differently to be with the guy, then he isn’t for you. STOP TRYING TO MAKE GUYS THAT CLEARLY ONLY WANT TO FU INTO BOYFRIENDS!!!! If he literally puts in zero effort to spend time with you and get to know you other than sex stop being attracted to him it’ll be a waste of time.
Men see the games.
This is why they ghost you after sex.
Be yourself
They do that no matter if you have sex or not women shouldn’t sleep with any men.
Its the same way for men and women. We want someone who has their own life and chooses us because they want us in spite of everything else, not because they are desperate to fill a void in themselves.
I think that in any relationship, remember to take time for yourself. So that you're not anxiously attached . As in take time to detach and think about yourself and remember all the ways in which you like yourself
If you will pretend to be something you are not, you will just attract wrong people, plus you will just end up making feel yourself worse by suppressing yourself for what you truly are. Dont become the person tou would like to be around. Just develop stronger boundaries, values, self respect. Do not play games and do not let someone else to play with you. Its not good advice for both men and women to artificiality change yourself, to put a mask. If someone doesn't like me for what I'm internally, that's fine - those people are not for me. No one is obligated to like us. We need also to learn how to truly choose better people, to see through them, do not ignore so-called red flags.
I do not like the chaise or games, regardless if I see someone doing that or I think that she isn't interested that much in me it's not worth the effort to continue. I will move on. And I will not compromise myself in an extreme way, just to attract someone who's most likely not for me and at the end I will end up feeling worse and perhaps by wasting my time on someone like that and not being my genuine myself I may miss or scare away someone worthy.
As a guy, I just feel this book will generate more issues not less. First off the "nice girl" here isn't a nice girl, she is a doormat and a people pleaser who is nice for the sake of approval, her kindness isn't a sign of strength, but a mental survival tactic. If you want to play this game of pretend to get guys who aren't interested in you as a partner but as a prize then you will have to accept having to pretend for the rest of the relationship as well, and him potentially leaving you once a harder to get prize appears. From my personal experience when a girl rejects meetings and doesn't suggest alternatives after let's say 2 attempts I will just lose interest and move on because I have better things to do, the same should be for women so if you decide to play this game of pretend instead of just being yourself you might end up on a path not suitable for you. The behaviour done by men in this video is also frequently done by women, although the message of finding hobbies and getting confidence is a very good message because those traits are attractive regardless of it being a romantic or platonic context, but these traits shouldn't be pursued for the sake of dating as that is a very weak foundation, kinda the same type of foundation the guys who work out to get girls have (spoiler they quickly become a laughing stock). To all the truly nice confident girls out there, keep being you so you find someone who loves you for you. Godspeed.
but men are told if we chase girls, we are seen as desperate and beta, and we need to pursue instead. and now neither men nor women want to date. and everyone is lonely and depresed, which makes them even more lonely because depression is unattractive
and no, the book isnt accurate, my dream girl is a nice girl that goes out of her way to show me how important i am to her. im naturally a very giving person, but i need to recieve a lot, so you can imagine how it is for me becuase not only i need to find a woman that gives a lot, but i must also control myself not to give too much, or she will confuse me for a beta doormat, while in reality i just love to give a lot and i have a big heart. you are giving EXTREMELY TOXIC love advice woman...
27 so maybe im old but ive always been really attracted to women that genuinely seem interested in hanging out with me. The chase really turns me off bc i dont want to play games
To clarify, all games are games. If you really want to pursue someone but youre afraid youll come across as a nice guy or nice girl so you change how you would act, youre playing a game. When im interested in someone i show it, and the best feeling is when they show it back. You have to make yourself vulnerable to make genuine connections
Me taking notes: say no to yatch (cries inside )
But do i want a guy who's turned off when I show him my explicitly and enthusiastic consent to date him ?
I will have no power dynamic in my relationships. If I like you, I'll make sure you know and put effort into dating you. I don't care if I look "desperate" (I don't btw), if you don't like it then we're not a good match anyway. And if you don't reciprocate the same effort and enthusiasm, then your number's getting deleted.
I won't play games as an adult.
I think the real question should be, are you nice because that is how genuinely are or are you nice because you are trying to people please so that a guy will be your bf?
I think once both genders realize that we shouldnt settle for these petty mindgames and that we should be comfortable in our own skin, then a lot of these issues could be resolved with minimal heartbreak on both sides.
Most important advice I can give is to date someone who will love you even if you behave in a way you perceive as desperate or embarrassing.
There are so many cringey people out there who are in relationships precisely because they are cringeworthy! 😂
They find someone who likes them since people already know what the "worst" of that person looks like and don't really mind.
I think that books like the one discussed are wrong about having to come across as having a "greater selfworth" or having to appear "higher in status" in order to win over someone you love.
I believe when you are naturally able to just be yourself around another person is when you have truly found authentic love.
Life is too short to cater yourself to people, so instead cater yourself to getting the most positivity out of your time. Good relationships will naturally follow!
I’m conflicted about this. On one hand, I get it. You definitely don’t want to let a guy lead you on for stuff only he wants, like sex, money, food, etc. As a woman who struggles with being massive people pleaser, it makes you *very* easy to be taken advantage of. But on the other hand, women have their own desires too. Women form their own attractions towards the men that they like, and I don’t think they should be discouraged from trying to pursue them. I don’t have all the time in the world to wait for a guy I like to start chasing me if he doesn’t even notice that I like him.
Think there needs to be a balance between your “niceness” and “bitchiness”. Don’t be a pushover, but don’t be heartless either. Set up boundaries for yourself, and know when you shouldn’t make the first move and when you are doing too much.
As a man who regularly finds women not putting in too much effort. Any woman who actually tries mutually to make a relationship work would be a huge attractive quality. I’d be the first person to sign up to date a “nice girl”.
As a guy my initial reaction was that I disagreed mostly due to the title but after hearing out the details she’s right. Most of us don’t want a maid or a babysitter most of us want a partner and someone whom we feel equal too.
This is the recipe for one-sided relationship and in the long run your partner risks to be fed up with it. I am talking from personal experience.
Quite contrarily the healthiest and happiest relationships I had were because the other don't hesitate to even do first steps and so it didn't looked thirsty, but conveyed the message she was ready to reciprocate and the effort to commit to each other would be 2-sided.
The real and honest behavior to have if you fear being disrespected because you are nice would be to make the guy aware that you don't want to be on a chasing dynamic and seek availability upfront. Simple, clear and honest communication.
I don't get with your conversation why you simply didn't ask or told the guy in a good way, and emphasize you don't want to be in a chasing dynamic ? The real problem is communication.
I'm glad I am no longer in the dating pool cause all these rules and labels seem so excessive, and it by itself can ruin authenticity and connection. Of course have self confidence and a life and integrity and self respect. All of these things are valid. But also don't live by these sets of rules and be authentic. There is no replacement for actual connection and no games will make a guy genuinely like you if he doesn't. I think there is so much pressure these days to be a "high value woman", but what high value woman let's other people define what that is? You can be a high value woman and decide to cook a meal for a guy because you want to surprise him and expect the same for him, because that's what is fun about a relationship. Caring enough about the other person to want to surprise and do nice things for each other. The only thing you need to do is find a guy who this comes naturally to and is willing to do the same. I have seen how much guys can learn to give once they're shown what it is to be given. If he isn't willing to do the same, maybe he just doesn't like you that much.
it’s very “nice guys finish last” to me and it basically is. i may not be a straight man or even a cis man but i know that i don’t like perusing anything with anyone unless there is clear mutual interest paired with effort and i know many guys feel the same.
Here is the real advice. Be yourself, and if you find someone who is into that, you’ve won.
this books is gonna resonate with the crowd of women who want to date dudes they shouldn’t be dating in the first place
I think it's not about a dream girl vs. Nice girl, but about self-respect and not letting sb walk over you in a relationship. You can be nice and have boundaries, the relationship should not be centered around one person but be a joint effort, cooperation not operation.
Edit: nice girl just seems like all the women that enslave themselves to men bcs they think sacrificing respect for themselves aka themselves as people will give them the approval of a made up king that only she sees.
I think women have to find a balance somewhere in between the following two extremes: (1) When a women is just immediately clinging to a guy, that guy might be wondering, why she is so desperate? - surely a women this beautiful has to have options - why does she want me of all guys, even though I couldn't have done anything yet to prove myself?
(2) But when there was hardly or any sign that the women was interested at all, then most guys will simply assume that she is not interested and will likely not even try. But keep in mind, that even though you think, you gave him an obvious sign, he might not have noticed at all. If a women is just being friendly and nice, guys will usually assume that she is not really interested, but just wants to be polite/courteous/nice/friendly.
I know it seems almost impossible for women to be neither too easy/clingy/nice nor too distand/cold/cool/self-confident und actually has no time for a relationship, because she is too busy.
for me the girl making an effort is very important. maybe being a "not nice" girl can work for men younger than 25. but for most men that are of advanced age, a girl taking her time to reply you is an indication that she doesn't like you so other than simp men, you would turn most mature men off with that behavior. i have a rule personally that if i am the only one initiating calls and texts i simply stop and let the relationship die. i used to be willing to put all the effort but learned that if someone values you, they will put effort too.
lmao what u talked about at 15.18 secs. what guy thinks about having a hold on a woman days into a conversation? you said earlier that guys are chasers. how can someone that is a chaser already expect that days into contact he has a hold on the woman? if a guy is responding with one word answers he either is introverted and not capable of carrying our proper conversations or he is burnt out by dating apps and not willing or capable of trying anymore or he isn't interested in you. he def isn't trying to check his hold on you. that book seems like its talking shit from your current explanations.
for me when a man finds you attractive he will go above and beyond for you. its about his attraction to you. all the other behaviors especially what is preached in the book are unnecessary are more likely to be net negatives than positives. Its simple. if an attractive woman is toxic, she will still get mates bcos of her attractiveness. same for a nice girl. the physical appeal is what matters. toxic means he will try to fuck but he wont try to date or marry
I understand the concept of “the thrill of the chase” and the hardwired desire for achievement that most men have.
That basically explains the “playing hard-to-get” phenomenon and how many men AND women seem to be naturally drawn to that.
But, I think once someone reaches a certain level of self-awareness and maturity, they should be less susceptible to that.
For me, when a woman is “playing hard-to-get” it’s an absolute turn off.
Why? Because I’m the type of man that appreciates authenticity and genuine connection. No games.
So, if a girl chases or doesn’t chase, it doesn’t matter.
What matters is are they their authentic selves and do we have a genuine connection?
That’s what truly matters.
I don’t speak for all guys.
But, if a girl wants genuine connection, then they need to find a guy that wants the same thing - they need to find someone who appreciates authenticity and dislikes games.
A nice girl can be nice, if it’s authentic.
An alpha-female can also find success being that way, if it’s authentic.
But fake nice and faking hard-to-get are both going to repel anyone IMO - for men AND women.
If you have to read that whole book and do all of those things to get a relationship with a man chances are you’re probably not "that girl". This book is basically the red pill but for women.
It’s like man thinking that they will get women by adopting an abundance mindset. They don’t realize that they are not "that guy"
Reading that book as a woman is the path of least resistance. "I have to make him pursue me" mentality instead of ADDING VALUE in a man’s life which is a thing that almost none of them do.
Hey 👋 so certified guys here. I'd like to say I highly disagree with most if not all of this. If anything some of these things will cause guys to think your a bit difficult or not worth the hastle. My advise would be to be yourself (nice) and true to your personality. Stay health and over all look good (not a model, just good) and last but not least don't cheat or flirt with other dudes. That book is just another cash grab of bad dating advise. Just as dumb as the type of nonsense guys are coming up with over on our side of the dating field trying to figure out ladies.
this is helpful to know, thanks for sharing
Idk of any man who would be turned off when a girl shows a lot of interest in them, this sounds like redpill advice for women lol. A lot of the kinds of men this book describes are the pimp/player types to me.
For me if a girl shows disinterest once. I stop. Even if afterwards they continue to flirt or something. It shows me they aren’t serious
I'd have to disagree with the "chase" most guys I know want someone who they get along with first. They want someone who is "wife material" but that relationship comes from friendship first and foremost. It's not necessarily being agreeable, just more so being yourself. My first relationship came from a girl who was playing hard to get and wanted me to try to get her which really put me off. This wasn't a woman that I'd bring home to my parents, she was a girl who I hardly knew but wanted to push my buttons to see how badly I wanted to be with her. The people I have actually fallen in genuine love with were the ones that we took it slow, became friends first and became well known by my family.
13:14 honestly i think this is the most valid point and jist of it. He need to feel like you chose him and you where not desperate to have him but if he wants you he will accept you whether you make effort or he does. My opinion 🤷🏽♂️
16:10 yes don't do this, but don't play games in terms of actively ignoring him
18:40 don't do this😂
19:30 yes don't be a yes women but don't be a B**tch. Literally be a normal reciprocal person 🤷🏽♂️
“Guys want an unpredictable woman that he cant have.” 😅naww Ive never had that urge but then again every guy isnt the same.
As a guy, I struggle to tell the difference between a woman wanting to be chased and not being interested. I just assume the later
I’m a man and I agree with half of this book. But for me I think this book can be related to both parties men and women but I think this book is trying to emphasise building your boundaries or getting your partner to respect you etc. As a man that has struggled with love before, I related to 60% of what was said (I feel like this is the female version of nice guys come last lol 😂)
But personally, I wouldn’t want to date someone that is hard to get, or someone that waits to message me after 24 hrs lol. I want to be a priority in someone’s life and I want them to also be my priority, bc how am I going to marry and build a deep relationship/ connection if they keep running away or waiting to text me after 24 hrs. I would rather go date someone that is easier and someone that likes me and is willing to put in the same effort that I’m willing to put in into the relationship
Also one more thing: If you are in a relationship or dating someone, you have to try to impress them. Why would I want to marry and have kids with someone that isn’t trying or putting in effort to be a better person or partner. I’m sure you wouldn’t advice your daughter to date a man that isn’t trying to impress them buy doing romantic things such as taking her on nice dates, buying her gifts etc
And the mama v hoe theme is fuckin crazy asf. But to each it’s own.. I’m so glad I’m in a beautiful healthy relationship where me and my gf don’t play these stupid gymnastic games. We express ourselves and we do what we need to do to make our relationship health and happy, she been there through my tough difficult times and I have done the same for her. She has cooked for me lots of times and I have taken cooking classes now I cook for her 70% of the times bc now I’m in love with cooking. But to each it’s own, I pray that everyone does find the love that they deserve 🙏