Fate/Zero Season 2 Episodes 7 & 8 Reactions | 'Maggots'
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- Опубликовано: 24 июл 2024
- Aussie Ravenclaw celebrates/shudders at duos in Episodes 7 and 8 of Fate/Zero.
0:00 - serene opening uh oh, allegorical foreshadowing; 5:07 - 'Kiritsugu' severing/binding; 7:54 - dad, comparing Norikata/Natalia, Natalia's retirement; 20:43 - dumpster fire of Shirley's arc, old mage lines, MORE foreshadowing; 27:47 - Shirley's idea, Natalia's joke, Kiri's impressionability; 35:09 - Church/Mages Association; 37:49 - the final mission, fatal bantering, comparing Norikata/Natalia's murders; 50:17 - lyrics!
54:09 - Episode 7 Reaction
└ 1:16:59 - Episode 7 mini rant
1:24:57 - Episode 8 Reaction
└ 1:47:19 - Episode 8 lean in, Kirei... lean in
Comment shoutouts: @LikeArson@danylonazarov (11:38)
*NOTE*
This is a time-synched reaction, so watch along with your own copy of the show! English captions (for the stuff I say) coming soon.
*WHO ARE I*
I'm double-cursed with an excessively laid back accent and tendency for brain overload. Oh, and I recently discovered a little thing called 'anime'. Cue amazement, and a bad case of playing catch up.
*'WATCHED ANIME' COUNT AS OF UPLOAD*
14
*CURRENTLY CATCHING UP ON*
Aria the Natural
Hibike! Euphonium
Fate/Zero
Haibane Renmei
Find me over on Twitter @ravenclawreacts for random in-between video thoughts.
Join our Discord (we're a pretty sweet bunch): / discord
List of 'to watch' anime: anilist.co/user/ravenclawreac... 
Кино
![Fate/Zero Season 2 Episodes 5 & 6 Reactions | 'Hey Kid' [RE-UPLOAD]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/4cfxCCvTLno/mqdefault.jpg)
Sure, Kiritsugu's mental fortitude is impressive and all, but I bet he's never spent several weeks holding back the urge to watch the next episode of Fate/Zero.
Wow, didn't expect a new one this quickly!
I feel like these two were much more straightforward than the previous episodes in terms of lore and such -- it's just raw emotional damage this time.
Well, Iri pretty much said everything I've been blabbering about under the last video regarding Einzbern homunculi, except it took her two sentences :D One thing to point out would be the theme and phrasing of "a borrowed ideal". Much like Saber and Kerry's dispute on "heroes of justice", this something worth keeping in mind for the future.
Also it's interesting how Irisviel states she never understood Kerry's ideal, but right after this she reveals her own dream of a peaceful life for Illya -- which feels like a scaled-down version of what Kiritsugu wants for all humanity. You could say what she doesn't really "get" is the grand nature of his aim or the ability to think on such a scale. But she definitely does understand the appeal of what he's aiming for. Perhaps she just doesn't see this herself because of how self-deprecating she is due to her homunculus origin and the mindset of "I've already got more than I could ever hope for".
Elsewhere we have the Kariya scene. I've got to say -- to me this might be the most gut-wrenching scene in all of Zero. Between the cascade of misunderstandings, awkwardness, suffering and madness there's just so many awful things to process so quickly.
As for the difference between (supposedly) killing Tokiomi in front of Aoi or not -- the thing is probably that ultimately Aoi must've realised Tokiomi might not survive this war. But to have him murdered right in front of her, by a friend, in staged circumstances (she must've thought it's Kariya who summoned her to the church specifically so she could witness it) -- yeah, that must carry different weight.
From Kariya's perspective -- when you're asking "what the hell he thought was the endgame here", there are probably two points to consider. One -- Kariya himself has his motives mixed up. In his own mind he's dressing up his hate for Tokiomi and the naive idea of "I'll do something nice for the woman I love, she'll come running to me and all will be great" (completely failing to consider she might care for the disgusting mage he hates so much, yeah) under the guise of a noble goal to save Sakura. Two -- all calculations of potential endgames are ultimately out of the window, as he must know he's a dead man walking thanks to Matou magecraft literally devouring him. There will be no happily ever after for him -- so only here and now matters.
Thanks to the creepy scene with Berserker we can also assume the Servant's hateful nature is rubbing off on his Master. Perhaps he's being consumed and overpowered by Zerk's flames of hate -- this is why the emotion of "must kill Tokiomi" prevails and makes him run head-first into Kirei's trap, and perhaps this is why, left unfulfilled when it turns out Tokiomi has already been killed by someone else, he takes it all out on Aoi instead. Consumed by Matou worms physically and Berserker's anger mentally, Kariya was practically gone before he even took the horrible final step. Truly horrible development. He was the one normal, kinda okay guy in a pack of douchebags and egomaniacs, so of course he meets probably the most soul-crushing end imaginable. Eh, Fate.
haha spoke too soon with the 'didn't expect this so quickly!' But gearing up for the next few episodes sooon.
On rewatch I was also trying to figure out the apparent contradiction between Iri saying she doesn't really 'understand' Kiri's ideal for the world, but then in the next breath articulating a vision of a better world for her daughter. I think you're right about her potentially downplaying her ability to grasp what's at stake due to her 'non-humanness'... when she actually probably gets it more than most.
With Kariya too, I found myself see-sawing between - 'he probably started out as a nice guy and due to a whole host of horrible circumstances plus soul-eating worms, was turned into a raging egomaniac with twisted motives' and 'okay maybe he wasn't ever as good a person as he/we imagined him to be' and it was only in this moment when he was pushed past breaking point that the ugly truth came rushing out. With how Fate is, I'm sure the 'answer' lies somewhere in between.
@@ravenclawreacts Yeah, Iri's reasoning here seems to be "how could I ever get it, the empty doll that I am". It's also one of those things where Zero leans into its predecessor a lot -- can't wait for you to eventually find out how her self-deprecating words on 'merely borrowing ideals' correspond with FSN.
Agreed re Kariya -- the answer surely isn't black-or-white. I'd guess he's supposed to represent the trivial truth of "everybody has an ugly side to them deep inside". In his case -- he's genuinely a good guy, he really wants to save Sakura, but deep beneath all of that he's got that resentful, angry emotion of "Tokiomi took Aoi from me, can't he just die already".
Genuinely wanting Aoi and her children to be happy while simultaneously being dead jealous of Tokiomi isn't mutually exclusive (until we get to the "let's kill Tokiomi, that should solve all" part, but that is where the Matou/Zerker darkness drives him -- it's not an option he'd entertain outside of HGW, you'd think). I'd say the most hypocritial part of him would be disguising his hate for Tokiomi as general disdain for mages and their inhumane practices, when in reality it's entirely a personal grudge.
Sheesh, what a pair of episodes! Someone may instantly correct me, but these two episodes may be the darkest the mainline Fates gets! Great reactions as always, and I really enjoyed the breakdown of the two previous episodes.
I think some bits of the hf trilogy made me quiver just as much - but yeah this part is pure misery! Greek tragedy for real.
Agreeed on your thoughts on my comment. I like how in-depth you are about characters, even relatively minor/second plane.
Though, if we compare Norikata with Tokiomi, i think Norikata have more "care for chilld/succesor" while Tokiomi is much more "care for tool/successor", even if they are both genuine. I mean, Rin at 6 or 7 already fairly confidently used her magic circuits, fairly mentally straining/traumatizing for kid and physically painful process, while Norikata really limited his kids early interactions with magic. Unfortunately, we have really little info on Kiritsugu's mom, who was killed by magic association enforcers (Norikata and his family were considered sealing designated for time magic research, that's why they live in hiding on random island). If we saw his interactions with his wife and how he view her, we would be able to fully understand his character much more
Emm not really..........their difference is purely circumstential.If Notikata had two children and had to scratch his head to whom he will be giving his magic crest and then someone would propose to him that he can make his second child a mage i believe he would gladly give a child away.I believe the reason why Rin was learning magecraft much earlier than Kiritsugu is because Rin herself was more enthusiastic in learning it while Kiritsugu was more interseted in being a normal boy and Shirley.Of course you can say that's due to her upbringing since Tohsaka family is much older than Emiya one so they treat it much more seriously,but that's just shows that Norikata was giving much less of his time for Kiritsugu while Tokiomi was capable of both maintaining his apperance as a family man and being a proper mage.
@@user-tp6gz7dp3v you can't become mage by yourself - especially first steps you will be guided along, and it seems Tokiomi decided to teach both of his kids early (maybe to determine who to choose, maybe no). Kiritsugu was relatively enthusiastic about magic, but Norikata not only didn't start his training early, but also strictly limited it when he wad older and himself was interested
@@danylonazarov i didn't say she was training all by herself i'm saying that she convinced her father to start train her much earlier than she was supposed to (also in Stay night and Hollow Ataraxia it is confirmed that Sakura knows absolutely NOTHING about Tohsaka's magecraft so no Tokiomi didn't taught her anything).Also i don't remember Norikata was saying "only if you are interested" considering that he was planning to turn him into a dead appostle in the future anyway.
@@user-tp6gz7dp3v Sakura doesn't know tohsaka magecraft, but i mean, she has some basic mage skills, at least activating magic circuits, or no? I am a bit blank on that one
Also, Rin "convincing" to teach her magecraft when she was like 4 or 5 (because by 6 she seems to successfully do basic magic energy manipulation) sounds funny. If Tokiomi didn't decide it is time to study, he wouldn't let her
Also, I don't think Norikata would turn Kiritsugu into apostle specifically, if he was sure it'll work - he'd do it on himself first after few successful human tests, to have infinite time to reach the root, or he would have left his vampire research unfinished for Kiritsugu to continue
Ye noble phantasms generally are very costly, but reality marble types are especially so.
The scabbard that was used to summon Artoria and was inside Iri all this time is probably equal to Excalibur is strength. Her fighting this without it all this time was a massive nerf. It heals and supposedly guarantees victory.
Iri seems to be an artificial human that, without any effort, is probably the most human, while Kiritsugu is a human that, through trauma and effort, is the most detached machine.
Personally, I have a distaste for Kariya because he seems to be using the excuse of wanting to be the savior of Sakura and Rin when it was just born of an envy and luat for Tokiyomi's wife. Masking his base desires in a spotty veil of justice. I believe that scene might have been more of a violent sa scene.
If a servant is impacted by a truck unless they are the most trash tier servant like Shakespeare or something they'd survive just fine.
As always, thanks for the extra lore!
I agree this episode laid bare Kariya's saviour complex and the grotesqueness of his response when Aoi didn't return his 'love'.
The first time I watched Fate, Kariya was my preferred winner, with Waver being second. Knowing Fate/Zero is a prequel, I assumed Kiritsugu's wish could not come to fruition, nor could Kirei's, even if I had nothing in mind as to what he could wish for. Waver's seemed the most likely, since his is so inconsequential, but Kariya's could be both rather inconsequential in the grand scheme of things, and also beneficial to someone who really needed it. Right from the start of the show, I was rallying behind Kariya - He had the noblest goal, he saved Rin, he stuck it up to Tokiyomi! And then this happened.
The thing about this event isn't that Kariya killed a powerless victim, the thing about it is that it re-contextualized his entire character to me. Snapping at your object of affection for not recognizing your love is something that's been brought to attention quite a lot in recent culture, with all the "nice guy" memes, and if we stop looking at Kariya as someone who's rightfully angry at a parent who put their child through misery, and instead start looking at him as a "nice guy", things start looking bad for him.
From the very first conflict, Kariya was ecstatic in having made Tokiyomi waste a command seal. Then, during Caster's subjugation, he just ignored the evil duo and went after Tokiyomi instead. He had such a profound hatred and obsession with the man, which sure, makes sense as rightful anger, but what if it wasn't? What if it was just him venting his envy at Aoi's husband? I'm sure even he didn't think of it as that, but it sure feels like it.
To me it's even more telling that his good deed of saving Rin ended up in him presenting himself as a savior to Aoi, also that he shows no decency towards how he treats Iri in this episode. If it’s not for Aoi, he doesn't care. I'm aware this could be because he sees Iri not as a human, but as a vessel, but considering he previously abandoned the path of a mage, that stands out in a way it wouldn't for the likes of Tokiyomi.
What I think really puts the nails in the coffin to me that Kariya was not just broken, but actually not a great person already, is the cinematography that was used while he was killing Aoi. It really evoked the imagery of... well, quite unsavory things. And if you look at him through "nice guy" lenses, it fits so well that it made me upset I was rooting for him in the first place.
The Holy Grail war gave him an excuse to exercise quite possibly his darkest fantasy and kill Tokiyomi, and you can bet he never gave a damn about how his success would make Aoi feel. At the end of the day, he killed Aoi for having the exact type of emotional response you’d expect her to have, because Kariya doesn’t really care about her, he just wanted to steal Tokiyomi’s place.
Now, am I oversimplifying things? Kind of. I overdramaticized the conclusion in the last paragraph, but I do think Kariya genuinely cared for both Sakura and Aoi, yet a combination of being given power, freedom to kill, and a reason to openly antagonize Tokiyomi, plus all the pain he went through ended up leading to this. As much as I’d like to say “Kariya was always a monster”, I don’t truly believe that, and I applaud the show for its moral complexity.
Considering to whom Kariya was going to give away a wish granting device after his victory i doubt it's that inconsequential........the only two participant's who's victory would be inconsequential on a grand scheme of thing's would be Waver and Keyneth since they wanted it purely to boost their reputation in the clock tower.
Some unrelated to F/Z lore - Maiya has a child that became one of the masters in spinoff Fate/Strange Fake. He is also a mercenary/mage with identity crisis but he is not a child of Kiritsugu.
Considering that episode 7 is when Maya was supposed to say that she has a child i won't be saying that it's that unrelated......
I think a big problem with Kariya, is that he always thought, that Aoi needs to be saved from the Tohsaka family. That she's essentially a hostage in her own family, that deep down she must be terrified of Tokiomi, that she must be pretending that she's alright with being a mage's wife, because she's afraid of her husband, but also because she loves her children. But she MUST be waiting for a savior, to get rid of Tokiomi and save her and her daughters....that's what Kariya had to believe in, in order to be the hero.
He couldn't fathom Aoi wanting this life, caring about Tokiomi, and not thinking about Kariya more deeply. Maybe he thought, that even if Aoi does care about Tokiomi, she must realize how foolish that was of her, after Kariya saved her from him. He wanted to be the rebellious hero, willing to die, to save the damsel from the clutches of the evil mage, so when it was revealed, that the damsel chose to be with the evil mage (although it might have been an arranged marriage, it wouldn't surprise me:P), that him giving up on his life was in vain (as far as Aoi is concerned)...it just completely broke him.
Well, I guess the almost comical amount of physical and mental torment he went through before, didn't help either. Even by the time he arrived at the church, I feel like he wasn't really "there" anymore. That meeting was just the last push. He's now mentally completely broken, and physically can barely hang on. I think the only reason he got up and walked away, is Sakura. Because as improbable as it seems, he still has a chance to save her. So now, the living corpse that is Kariya, limping away, screaming in anguish, is puppeteered in to motion by nothing else, but the thought of pulling Sakura out from the Hell, that she's been thrown in to.
Also, as a side note, I have to mention, how fucking icky I feel every time I watch the scene, where Zouken shoves the big, fat worm down Kariya's throat, and he just HAS to word it as "the first worm feeding on Sakura's purity". Considering how you can easily look at the bugs feeding on Sakura's body, in a certain "I don't want to say it in a youtube comment, because I'm afraid of angering our yt overlords" kind of way, it makes Zouken's usage of words really fucked, especially saying it to Kariya, after that worm is force-fed to him. I'm not saying, that the usage of words is worse than the situation itself, it just makes me think, how Zouken really puts an effort in to twisting the knife as much as possible, to make even the worst possible situation imaginable worse.
Agree 100% with your assessment of how twisted Kariya's assumption of what Aoi wants/needs is. Basically white knighting (ironically with a 'dark knight' as a Servant) and unable to handle the reality that it was her choice. 'Living corpse' is also 100% accurate.
Yeurcchh yeah re: Zouken... his character centralises on finding new lows.
I think I've read somewhere that what Kariya did was SA not killed Aoi. That's why they show fast clips while Kariya is having like some sort of mental breakdown while also at it doing it.
Anyone can correct me if I'm wrong.
i also remember seeing it somewhere, but later i decided to factcheck and wasnt able to fins it anywhere
I think somewhere on TVTropes it said that the framing of it was quite close to SA. On a rewatch, its hard to disagree.
Yeah rewatching the scene, I think they left plenty of room for interpreting it that way. Ugh