I've been enjoying the GR86 as my daily driver and only car in Michigan for about 8 months now. I think it's underrated how absolutely * wild * it is that a mainstream manufacturer is making a new 2+2, naturally aspirated, manual trans, RWD sportscar on a bespoke platform in 2023 and selling it for $30k. It's a truly staggering display of commitment to enthusiasts, and an absolute goldilocks of a car that you can use year-round with the right tires, even as an only car if you don't have kids. There are *zero* other new cars that do this, and I don't think we will ever see any more of their kind.
to be completely fair, this is still a very similar car to the gt86/brz/frs from 10 years ago. It's a very outdated platform/drivetrain and I don't think the manufacturers are doing us such a big favor by giving a decade old car an amazing update.
@@olivertrees who cares as long as it's still excellent? Frankly the only thing the gen 1 cars needed was a slight bump in power while keeping it naturally aspirated, the chassis and overall package remains stellar to this day. It's probably the best handling car this side of a Cayman.
@@olivertrees Considering how "modern cars" are overweight, computers on wheels focused on practicality rather than fun, I would make the argument that GR86/Brz is doing us a huge favor...They made a classic sports car purchasable to the public...Imagine the hype if Honda did the same thing and gave the S2000 a revival with a modern engine but still keeping the old car philosophy. People will be fighting tooth an nail to get their hands on one.
BRZ - Super fun to drive but small. GR Corolla - lots of character with insane grip. Maybe too much grip. Smallish. Civic Type R - fast, great handling, rotates, and very practical. No hand brake and no heated steering wheels or seats for such a great daily. Great review. I would choose your combo as welll
Another amazing review. My BRZ arrives in a few weeks, so thank you for COMPLETELY putting my mind at ease about the purchase. Bought mine from Ertle Subaru in Stroudsburg, PA. Extremely professional group of people who aren't adding any greed markup on the car at all.
There’s a good community with the car. It’s a great learning tool, and everyday driver. Seat time at a track is your best option when it comes to spending money on your new BRZ. Enjoy!
The BRZ is a great a rwd car, however I sold my second gen for a Type R due to the engine and power delivery feeling better to me in the Type R and having the hatch and 4 doors really makes a difference when you go out with friends. But also personally I enjoy the Type R chassis more and the bucket seats are so nice. If RWD and driving orientation is a must for you then the BRZ is the best bang for the buck. But outside the canyons/mountains the BRZ felt really boring to me. The Civic to me is just better as a daily and for street use because of the turbo.
I felt the same , very worried since I couldn’t test drive or even sit in 1 till delivery day. You won’t be disappointed unless concerned about #’s. It is a dream lightweight sports car that gives all the right ‘feels’
@Ry if you're looking for an automatic where you can just slam down the throttle and pressed against your seat, then they are ridiculously underpowered. But I think for someone who enjoys driving, not just the speed, those 2 cannot be beat for the price. A good manual that still gives you that mechanical feeling of driving is just too enjoyable.
I know you know this, but for any curious viewers - Raising the car with spacers: (a) Does not change the suspension geometry and design and hence does not affect the dynamic reactions qualitatively (b) Does actually change the C.G of the car, so it loses some of the steady state and dynamic limits (though it can be somewhat compensated with driving styles that utilize the increased weight transfer)
Your comment about the BRZ/GR86 being brand new cars from 20 years ago is absolutely spot on! I used to say that these are cars that the respective companies forgot to stop making from 20 years ago!
Love the BRZ/86! The GR Corolla's lack of adjustability at the limit is disappointing given the hype around the AWD system, but I imagine with a stiffer rear sway it will "come around". CTR is surprisingly good for FWD, it appears to rotate with lift throttle at the track. Can't really go wrong with any of these choices, but I'm a lightweight rwd coupe guy at heart so BRZ/86 for me.
@@kibawhitefang7176 Oversteer, when the rear of the car loses traction before the front during cornering. Can happen when entering a corner (usually induced by lifting off the throttle or under braking), mid-corner, or on corner exit under power (RWD or in some cases, AWD).
I think people underestimate how much power is required to over drive 4 tires. The GR Corolla has mechanical front and rear diffs, and this means the car will typically break traction of all 4 tires at once. You won't really spin up one tire here or there. This makes the vehicle very power stable. A good comparison is the STI and Evo and how much power they need on high grip surfaces to ever get to a point where the awd mechanics really start mattering. A simile would be STI's DCCD. On asphalt with any tires that remotely sticky, you will not see hardly any difference in the car's handling regardless of DCCD setting. It makes a very big difference on dirt, but it has almost no appreciable difference with high grip. The front/rear split does have effect, but the effect requires the car to be pushed into its grip limit. It's hard to get to this point until you're in an environment specifically for this. I know looking at some early Japanese videos covering the GR Yaris and Corolla, the awd is tailored in a way that's not quite suited for racing. It's too...conservative. Aftermarket tuners in Japan have been working on programming changes though that work around these limits, and I think that's a straight forward transition to ones being sold in the US. Once those tunes are known and openly sold, you can work around the stock limits and get something better tailored to racing use.
One of the things I love about your reviews, is that you always say the truth about each car/SUV/sports car you drive, the good and the bad things of them. You're right, The BRZ and the Type R each one is a different world and you're happy with them.
Very good review of 3 cars. Each car has its own characteristics, advantages, and disadvantages. I am not surprised that a resident of Michigan (Detroit, Motor City) has done such an insightful review. Thank you.
What a Combo of vehicles. Topher is a G man. Brz and Civic TYPE R. Love you man I'm still finding my way to a used Veloster N! Soon just gotta keep hustling!
Great VID!!!! Picked up a circuit and it sOOO much reminds me of my old Evo 8 which I thought I'd never experience again in this day an age. I LOVE IT. When they say it's fun, it IS an understatement. Hard to believe it is sold here. Drove an FL5 Type R and yes it is a much more polished and accomplished car but when you watch videos of Gazoo Racing's Rally2, not Rally1, but Rally2 car which just debuted at Monte Carlo, you realize, the GR's motor and drivetrain is a homologated rally car and all the better for it. Once on a wide open road, the Type R will be more fun. Similar to how my Evo was an insane car, it wasn't the greatest on track. The S2000's and true sports cars were better. The GR is a rally car which is what I was looking for.
I love your videos. Having owned an FRS and driven a last gen Type R, I really respected the Type R but because its limits were so high, I thought it was more boring to drive in most situations
I owned a 2014 FRS and found it very boring to daily. You’d have to really push it to have fun. The type r is just a perfect daily that’s fun without having to rev it out.
@@revaholic I agree there’s fun in that. I guess what I’m trying to say is my FRS was boring to drive slow and my current FL5 is fun driving slow. Since it has low end torque.
Just add oil cooler Chris to the brz and still cheaper than type r or even gr Corolla for long term track use. I mean all three u still need to change pads, oils and etc for track. Rwd and NA is always the best combo.
I really think the Gr corolla is better to replace the brz, just since the Gr corolla has what the brz offers but even funner, it cant really compete with the type r as its fully focused for intense sport. But I personally would get a gr corolla over the brz.
BRZ/86 is definitely the best bang for your buck but I like the type R. Plenty of space and even though it cost a LOT, it holds value/appreciates and this is coming from a toyota fan boy
Vroom! Vroom! Vroom! I'm starting to get excited for my BRZ Limited manual June arrival. May I get a list of mod suggestions from you for daily driving and street fun? I'm also interested in the body raise for more clearance. I'm really enjoying your videos. Thank you!
You're going to want an exhaust, perferably for 2nd gen such as the AWE Touring or the STi one, so you can unplug the sound generator behind the glovebox and still hear something, stock is too damn quiet (thanks California!). Not too loud if you want to keep your sanity as the cabin isnt the best insulated for my Invidia N2 and the stereo system is underwhelming. I plan to put a bass hub in the wheelwell at some point. PPF if you care about the paint a lot, it chips very easily, especially on the highway. Mines was swirl-city by the f^&king dealer (Tell them "DONT TOUCH IT!"). It is expensive to PPF though. A wireless carplay dongle (newer gen ones connect faster) and a dashcam are nice for peace of mind. Add some overlays (mines from stickerfab were cheap) to the rear blinkers so you dont get the hyperflash (google this!). When it happens (sun hits the LEDs) the lights dont go on which is dangerous. An STi or slightly heavier shift knob will help put into gear easier, the shifter can be very notchy. I also got an MTEC clutch spring to replace the stock, it is very assisted and feels annoying. Was the cause of a lot of stalls learning to drive, the MTEC makes it progressive, simple but awkward install did myself as a newbie. I ripped off the carbon filter from the airbox which tested adds like 5hp, might need it for emissions later though and its glued on. Also I suggest buying the GR tail, it looks amazing on this car, they should all have it. Mines is black on my sapphire. Contrats on the purchase! These are my "necessary" mods. P.S. I also added the STi trim pieces (third-party tho, original are overpriced), the accessory lights on the front bumper (mines have ambers also), wrapped my steering wheel (failed at a good install on an LED-rev light wheel, just go with a standard wheel (the clockspring doesnt have enough wires) ended up with parasitic battery drain. Wheels, Tires, Suspension, TBD when more financially stable. Join the "2022+ Subaru BRZ / Toyota GR 86 Owners and Enthusiast" facebook page for a lot of mods and impressions, they post very often. Have Fun!
@@Rob165x, thank you for the detailed info. A lot of what you said went "whoosh" over my head, but I will join that group you mentioned. I did have the dealer put a clear coat on the car. They did a great job. I know exactly what you mean about the clutch spring. Hadn't thought of that as an option. Let's see what I've added so far. - footwell Illumination - short throw shifter - clear coat - all weather floor mats Remaining - mud flaps - dual exhaust - spare tire and rim - camber bolts - eventually, a lift kit - eventually, all weather tires
My father got the GR Corolla. I drove it and I have to say it is a great, quick daily, but coming from my '18 WRX, it was nowhere near as raw or dramatic so it wasn't my favorite. A little too smooth and numb. Objectively a great car though. This is also the same reason I'm like you in preferring the AP1 over AP2. Plan on picking up one of those when the Rex is paid off. Keep up the great content!
25:13, What you say is spot on. I personally believe a lot of it has to do with the throttle tuning. I've driven every single modern Honda available with a stick shift in the last five to six years or so (Except the FL5). Every single one I drove had throttle tuning that seemed more appropriate for an automatic, except for the FK8 Type R. I suspect that Honda might have gotten lazy with setting up their manuals properly and just slapped in whatever throttle parameters the automatics had into the manual cars. That might be why the K20C1 is the only engine to not have this issue. It's the only engine that isn't available with an Auto, so it has its own mapping. It's also sad to hear that Honda botched the dampers on the FL5. They were perfect on the FK8! No need to fix something that ain't broke. If this car lives long enough to see an update/refresh, I'm sure it'll be addressed. Maybe as soon as the next model year. They've done stuff quick like that in the past. I've been watching your videos for 10 years or more now, from when I subscribed to The Winding Road Magazine. I think the first video I came across of yours was an ATS POV drive. The dedication, hard work, and constant refinement I see in your content is beyond impressive, especially when paired with your ever present sincerity and integrity. Thanks for doing what you do, and keep it up!
I only have two gripes with my 86 since picking it up a few months ago. 1.) Gearbox is occasionally and inexplicably crunchy sometimes. Particularly in 5th but happens in all gears. It'll be nice and smooth and happy for 10 minutes then all of a sudden you get that mild grinding feeling in hand. Nothing audible but feel ick. Happens regardless of engine speed/swiftness of shift. 2.) An incessant "thumping" on light constant throttle between 1800-2500rpm 1st-4th. Get into it a every so slightly more? Goes away. I've chocked it up to a quirk with the fueling.
Tbh I have had zero of these issues and I’m sitting at 12k miles on my BRZ and I feel like the gearbox has improved significantly since I first drove it at 0miles. So maybe you got a bad trans or maybe it’s down to technique.
@@xman20427 Its improved quite a bit over time. I'm a bit over 10k now and I don't get the grittiness very often - hardly ever. mainly when short shifting.
@@dewet2wet I noticed it’s does like a 2-3k shift at all unless the driving conditions slow. But generally on like “daily” I’ll go between 3-4k rpm it’s smoother. But the gear box loves the higher rpm shifts and always buttery smooth. I also just changed my gear and rear diff oil at 11k miles (manual recs 30k service) but after the oil swap it made a big difference! But definitely like the first couple thousand miles the gearbox was definitely rigid during break in.
@@xman20427 You're absolutely right. I tend to cruise around 3k nowadays. I think that helped alleviate a lot of the gripes I had. Cruising around at 2.5-3k, shifting around 4k, the car and gearbox is much much happier. Butter smooth. Sometimes, in traffic, I do have to short shift, and that's when I feel that bumpiness going into gear.
@@Toymonkeyjr I mean I have a Golf R at msrp. There are tons of Elantra Ns at MSRP near me. There are a bajillion WRXs below msrp! Same with Camaro LT1s :)
Type R is more in a serious performance side and not so much about "fun" though. I love my 21 boost blue FK8 and I'd rather get the automatic BRZ for my daily. Not a fan of the GR Corollas engine and styling, its a great car for sure.
Bought GR86, then GR Corolla a few months later. Lived with them all year. GRC is a riot but 86 is more fun overall. Recently traded the GRC for an FL5 for practicality reasons. 86 still more fun.
I have a GR86 as well and I just love it so much. I’m itching to change to FL5 - which has an overall better build quality and stance. Not a fan of fwd but I think I can leave with it. Do you think i should pull the trigger?
@logenkunnasegaran3053 Is the 86 your only car? Do you need the practicality of the Civic? If yes to both it could be worth it. You didn’t mention power or speed as reasons you’re itching.. those (and those good looks) are the only things I really miss about the FL5. But they weren’t enough to make me love it near as much as my GR86. I felt like it was a bit of a waste for me and sold the FL5 after a year. I think I’m content now with GR86 as my only “fun” car.
A shame that you can’t just go to your dealership and order a GR86 normally like any other model. In Germany there is only a „waiting list“ and you need to be lucky that your dealer will be able to place your order in the second order wave. Alternatively, you can buy one of the cars that are standing at some dealers with a ridiculous markup. These cars start here at 40k euros which makes this car pointless imo 🙄 Everything is just hyped up and rare and expensive nowadays.
am i crazy for thinking about the corolla over the CTR just for the handbrake? whats with car manufacturers and replacing the handbrake with that little notch you flick like a bean? my mk 7 R also lacks a handbrake :T
The GRC has so much grip. You're tripling the posted speedlimit on winding roads. It is insane how much it grips up. I do still love my old 08 mazda 3 hatchback. Because you can comfortably approach the limits of the car at non suicidal speeds. But man is that thing slow. I can leave my GRC in 6th and comfortably and confidentially make highway passes that I'd be dropping my 5 speed mazda into 3rd to make. It's not perfect. It is a freaking toyota corolla after all. But with AWD, a traditional handbrake, 6 speed manual, and 300hp it is so much fun to drive and own. The heated seats and steering wheel are nice. But I wish the seats got warmer and wish the steering wheel would turn the heat down after it hits a certain temp like the seats do. It can get uncomfortably hot. And the seats never get close to that. Also feels very safe to commute in with the power, brakes, blindspot monitoring and radar. It is such a stiff car. Jacking one corner feels like it starts to lift 3 wheels off the ground.
Can you actually get that for $40k or less if you don’t get the packages?? Somehow I doubt it, just like the Civic Type R… I’ve seen those going for $60k… nuts for a front wheel drive Honda.
Hey Chris, if you could only own one would you pick the BRZ or Type R? I ask because I currently own a FK8 and we are getting a Tesla M3 and I'm considering switching the FK8 Type R to a BRZ/GR86 for a more traditional sports car(RWD) + the savings it comes with selling it. Wonder if you would make that switch?
Have a GR Circuit. Unfortunately/Fortunately it ships with summer tires. So to be a 4 season car you need to get yourself another set of rubbers. I went ahead and got wheels and tires for the fall/winter. The falloff of the summer tires in the cold is spooky. But 245 DWS 06 feel phenomenal hot or cold. Haven't tracked the car yet. But definitely plan on it.
RWD or die. The other 2 are great but they're something else. They're not pure sports cars like the twins. Only one you can drive with the throttle which rules out the economy car based sedans. And FWD/4WD understeer just sucks.
Sounds like you haven't driven any well set-up FWD's 🙂 Not all have crazy understeer. The Type R in particular is well known to turn in nicely. And you do steer a FWD with the throttle, it's just kind of.... Opposite 😅 Off throttle - weight to fronts, turns in. On throttle, weight to back, pushes out. It has a really nice rhythm once you get used to it.
Dont understand people which are hating GR86/BRZ for power. 240hp and 250nm in 1270kg car. It is really slow? Where? On track? Maybe, but not in country roads and canyons. All its not about the speed and power. I can have a big fan with old 90hp Civic. Is it slow? 160 on country roads is slow? I dont think so, yes you must rev it and work with it, but that is about pure driving is... S2000 is too slow? Really?
Can’t wait to compare, I’ll be getting a GR Corolla in a couple weeks, and I currently own and FRS, so can’t wait to switch back and forth between the 2.
Thanks for pointing out how predictable and satisfying NA engines are when driven near the limit. I've also like to drive a gear high, maintaining momentum, and the non-linear response with turbo engines detracted from that. I do like the BRZ/GR86 (modern 240Zs, IMO), but wish that I could have their chassis beneath a more traditional 2-box hatchback body.
The only thing I don't like about the GR Corolla are the tack-on look rear quarter panels. If it was flush and part of the body like the GR Yaris, I think it'd look a lot better. As for the GR86/BRZ, I really wish toyota took the their own 2.5 I4 engine from the Camry and modified it to make 240hp/190Tq or something. It would probably sound better, be more reliable, and get better MPG.
It's shocking that the toyota corolla gr circuit is $56,865 and the type r is $51,955 here in canada before taxes. After watching team o'neil drvie the 2023 GR Corolla and showing how it will maintain a drift in the snow and not cut power from the rear was very surprising especially after seeing that it wouldn't hold a drift in the wet or dry conditions. I'm wait to see if subaru release a Sport-Tech RS model of the brz.
Just curious, with regards to the corolla, is there a pedal dance mode that can be turned on/off? I've seen videos of the 86 having that mode, and I'm hoping the corolla/Yaris have the same feature.
In the GR Corolla, press the AWD mode selector to engage track mode and move the drive mode selector to sport, then hold the traction control off button and it puts it in expert mode with all electronic nannies turned off. I’m not sure if it has a mild amount of stability control going on in the background still, but that should turn off all assists.
It would be nice if you compare the wrx 2022 with other car.. so few channel compare the new wrx, people argument alot about the look and it's okay, we all have our taste. However, the car really have great reviews, sharper in the corner than the last gen, on the dino test the wrx 2022 showed more torque than the last gen etc. Anyway, would be nice to see comparison with the new wrx.
Which one will be a great first manual car? I’m planing to learn MT this summer. I’ll probably sell me automatic gr86 that I drive for ten months after getting drivers license. I’m thinking about gr corolla or fl5 because it has more safety features and auto rev match (which the manual GR 86 doesn’t)
Honda has amazing shifter best of this group. The BRZ was so easy it took no adjustment even after being in an automatic for 4 years. From other reviews it goes Honda, 86 then Toyota GR
Great comparison, and also a great video, enjoyed watching this one. Out of curiosity, out of the 3, which would be the best for long and short road trips? Also which one would be the worst for road trips?
They’re all pretty good tbh. GR Corolla and Type R have adaptive cruise and lane centering which helps take some fatigue off, but the BRZ is pretty comfortable on long road trips too. I wouldn’t hesitate to take any of these on a longer trip.
@@TheTopher Good to know. In the future, any of these 3 could be a good replacement for my GTI. Thanks for the response, keep up the good work with the car reviews.
Hey @TheTopher, With the 4:3 rear diff in the BRZ, do you think that, along with headers + tune and exhaust could make the car a bit punchier in the acceleration department? Or at least ~as fast as some of the cars that are usually a step up in performance in practical street driving? I like _so_ much about the GR86/BRZ, and would rather put money into making it a little quicker in the acceleration department than buy a car that's just naturally faster from the factory / dealer lot because I like so much about it. I don't know what's realistic though; I'm sure it _can_ be made faster while keeping it NA, but I'm not sure what's all possible.
Bought my 23 BRZ in large part thanks to your ownership reviews. Couple questions: 1) What wedge are you using there in the backseat for the car seat? 2) Which crash bolts should I get for the front and how much negative camber would you recommend? Thanks!
There’s probably a reason the Type R suspension is so stiff. It’s tuned for Sazuka correct? Honda spent millions developing the suspension for the FL5, I wouldn’t recommend changing the suspension unless you’re genuinely tuning it for a specific track.
I think what Honda is doing with the K20C is amazing! Peak torque at 1500-2500 rpm (model dependent) is really good for a gas 4 cyl. I wish manufacturers would stop chasing high hp and realize that torque is what really makes a driving experience fun. The cars I’ve had the most fun in have more low rpm torque. Not having to put the pedal down just to get out of the way goes a long way for driver satisfaction and fuel economy! Turbos make torque, so let them 😂
It would take too much work for them to do it and it wouldn't sell. The Type R, as good as it is, trades on it's name to some degree. And the Mazda wouldn't have that.
Are the new Z’s under 50k? I’m sure they have an insane mark up for them since I know there is a lot of people waiting to get there’s. I thought basic one starts in the lower $40s k but I could be wrong and I’m sure you want more than just the basic package too.
I am looking to buy a BRZ for the low price tag but I've been deep down sad that I would be missing out on too much for not getting a GR Corolla. But boy even as I was watching the vid the BRZ feels much more fun with its low limits and that loud engine sound. I am surprised that the Corolla is not as fun as it is advertised. That red definitely looks great though.
I decided to hold off on the new M2 to see if they would have a Competition trim soon. I got tired of waiting for more info to come in and bought a Miata to hold me over. I've been having so much fun with this car that I actually forgot about the M2. Plus, I really don't like the way the new M2s look, but I'm sure they're amazing to drive on the track.
I have the Elantra n I got last year but ordered the m2 since it was goijg to take 18 months to get here. And for some reason I actually really like design of the m2. It reminds me of the old boxy BMWs. Like the e36 M3
GR86 and “falls on its face on the track” is not at all what I think driving mine on the track…. “Is today the day low oil pressure around turn 17 causes a warranty claim that may not get covered?” Is one however
I've been enjoying the GR86 as my daily driver and only car in Michigan for about 8 months now. I think it's underrated how absolutely * wild * it is that a mainstream manufacturer is making a new 2+2, naturally aspirated, manual trans, RWD sportscar on a bespoke platform in 2023 and selling it for $30k. It's a truly staggering display of commitment to enthusiasts, and an absolute goldilocks of a car that you can use year-round with the right tires, even as an only car if you don't have kids. There are *zero* other new cars that do this, and I don't think we will ever see any more of their kind.
to be completely fair, this is still a very similar car to the gt86/brz/frs from 10 years ago. It's a very outdated platform/drivetrain and I don't think the manufacturers are doing us such a big favor by giving a decade old car an amazing update.
@@olivertrees who cares as long as it's still excellent? Frankly the only thing the gen 1 cars needed was a slight bump in power while keeping it naturally aspirated, the chassis and overall package remains stellar to this day. It's probably the best handling car this side of a Cayman.
Now that Akio Toyoda is out, this may be the last gen of this car in gas form
@@olivertrees Considering how "modern cars" are overweight, computers on wheels focused on practicality rather than fun, I would make the argument that GR86/Brz is doing us a huge favor...They made a classic sports car purchasable to the public...Imagine the hype if Honda did the same thing and gave the S2000 a revival with a modern engine but still keeping the old car philosophy. People will be fighting tooth an nail to get their hands on one.
@@skifree0 completely agree. everything is too heavy
BRZ - Super fun to drive but small.
GR Corolla - lots of character with insane grip. Maybe too much grip. Smallish.
Civic Type R - fast, great handling, rotates, and very practical. No hand brake and no heated steering wheels or seats for such a great daily.
Great review. I would choose your combo as welll
i want the small hot hatch :DD
Ctr isn't that fast. A Mustang or Supra is fast.
@@davothegreat9990 true but they are in a wrong league to compare
@Shahir_ 88 sure. Ctr is fast in its own right, but I guess it's not for everyone.
@@davothegreat9990drag yeah, but on track n touge, ctr definitely has advantages
Another amazing review. My BRZ arrives in a few weeks, so thank you for COMPLETELY putting my mind at ease about the purchase. Bought mine from Ertle Subaru in Stroudsburg, PA. Extremely professional group of people who aren't adding any greed markup on the car at all.
There’s a good community with the car. It’s a great learning tool, and everyday driver. Seat time at a track is your best option when it comes to spending money on your new BRZ. Enjoy!
The BRZ is a great a rwd car, however I sold my second gen for a Type R due to the engine and power delivery feeling better to me in the Type R and having the hatch and 4 doors really makes a difference when you go out with friends. But also personally I enjoy the Type R chassis more and the bucket seats are so nice. If RWD and driving orientation is a must for you then the BRZ is the best bang for the buck. But outside the canyons/mountains the BRZ felt really boring to me. The Civic to me is just better as a daily and for street use because of the turbo.
I felt the same , very worried since I couldn’t test drive or even sit in 1 till delivery day.
You won’t be disappointed unless concerned about #’s. It is a dream lightweight sports car that gives all the right ‘feels’
Had the old one for 8 years… considering the new one very hard! Loved the last one so much.
BRZ/GR86 is a true driver’s car for me
2 slow
@@XAMPOL speed isn’t everything
@@Stevie4171 It's not, but it's still too underpowered imo.
Tried the new gen BRZ but it just wasnt for me. The STI is the perfect drivers car for me
@Ry if you're looking for an automatic where you can just slam down the throttle and pressed against your seat, then they are ridiculously underpowered. But I think for someone who enjoys driving, not just the speed, those 2 cannot be beat for the price. A good manual that still gives you that mechanical feeling of driving is just too enjoyable.
Love that you appreciate how fun a car is instead of starting a review with a 0-60 and recording lap times
Always a down to earth perspective
I know you know this, but for any curious viewers - Raising the car with spacers: (a) Does not change the suspension geometry and design and hence does not affect the dynamic reactions qualitatively (b) Does actually change the C.G of the car, so it loses some of the steady state and dynamic limits (though it can be somewhat compensated with driving styles that utilize the increased weight transfer)
love the BRZ comparison reviews, it says a lot it's even in the conversation with these cars!
Your comment about the BRZ/GR86 being brand new cars from 20 years ago is absolutely spot on! I used to say that these are cars that the respective companies forgot to stop making from 20 years ago!
I’m 63, two dogs. Tonight paid the dwn on order. Circuit edition. I’ll probably be 65 by the time she arrives but I have infinite patience 😃
Love the BRZ/86! The GR Corolla's lack of adjustability at the limit is disappointing given the hype around the AWD system, but I imagine with a stiffer rear sway it will "come around". CTR is surprisingly good for FWD, it appears to rotate with lift throttle at the track. Can't really go wrong with any of these choices, but I'm a lightweight rwd coupe guy at heart so BRZ/86 for me.
What you guys mean by rotate?? Just wondering.
@@kibawhitefang7176 Oversteer, when the rear of the car loses traction before the front during cornering. Can happen when entering a corner (usually induced by lifting off the throttle or under braking), mid-corner, or on corner exit under power (RWD or in some cases, AWD).
A+ comparison topic
Gr corolla all day! I’m absolutely loving mine!!!
I want to see more review of attainable cars... Subaru seems the only company supplying their products in a market.
Thanks!
I think people underestimate how much power is required to over drive 4 tires. The GR Corolla has mechanical front and rear diffs, and this means the car will typically break traction of all 4 tires at once. You won't really spin up one tire here or there. This makes the vehicle very power stable. A good comparison is the STI and Evo and how much power they need on high grip surfaces to ever get to a point where the awd mechanics really start mattering. A simile would be STI's DCCD. On asphalt with any tires that remotely sticky, you will not see hardly any difference in the car's handling regardless of DCCD setting. It makes a very big difference on dirt, but it has almost no appreciable difference with high grip. The front/rear split does have effect, but the effect requires the car to be pushed into its grip limit. It's hard to get to this point until you're in an environment specifically for this.
I know looking at some early Japanese videos covering the GR Yaris and Corolla, the awd is tailored in a way that's not quite suited for racing. It's too...conservative. Aftermarket tuners in Japan have been working on programming changes though that work around these limits, and I think that's a straight forward transition to ones being sold in the US. Once those tunes are known and openly sold, you can work around the stock limits and get something better tailored to racing use.
One of the things I love about your reviews, is that you always say the truth about each car/SUV/sports car you drive, the good and the bad things of them. You're right, The BRZ and the Type R each one is a different world and you're happy with them.
"I just don't want to stop driving this thing" that's how I still feel about my FG2 and why the FL5 is the one out of these 3 for me.
Very good review of 3 cars. Each car has its own characteristics, advantages, and disadvantages. I am not surprised that a resident of Michigan (Detroit, Motor City) has done such an insightful review. Thank you.
In my opinion the BRZ will always be my favorite
Just wish it had the gr Corolla engine
@@Mkha620not even, just skip the lag
Toyota reliability and better potential
What a Combo of vehicles. Topher is a G man. Brz and Civic TYPE R. Love you man
I'm still finding my way to a used Veloster N! Soon just gotta keep hustling!
13:05 I can hear Mark and Jack in the background..
😂
Great VID!!!! Picked up a circuit and it sOOO much reminds me of my old Evo 8 which I thought I'd never experience again in this day an age. I LOVE IT. When they say it's fun, it IS an understatement. Hard to believe it is sold here. Drove an FL5 Type R and yes it is a much more polished and accomplished car but when you watch videos of Gazoo Racing's Rally2, not Rally1, but Rally2 car which just debuted at Monte Carlo, you realize, the GR's motor and drivetrain is a homologated rally car and all the better for it. Once on a wide open road, the Type R will be more fun. Similar to how my Evo was an insane car, it wasn't the greatest on track. The S2000's and true sports cars were better. The GR is a rally car which is what I was looking for.
I never understood the lack of heated seats in the type R. So many car manufacturers have nice seats with heat.
Cuz they are racing Recaro bucket seats.
Dont STIs have Recaro with heated seats?
But but.. track car for the boys over at silly geese
I went BRZ for the money but any of these three are great. For autocross the BRZ is excellent and that is my focus.
I've had my 23 BRZ since November and it's been perfect! Already have put 7k on it 😅
Did you have to check the oil pan for excessive RTV?
This is the first video where I could really see how eager the type R is to rotate in a corner. Simply amazing.
I love your videos. Having owned an FRS and driven a last gen Type R, I really respected the Type R but because its limits were so high, I thought it was more boring to drive in most situations
I owned a 2014 FRS and found it very boring to daily. You’d have to really push it to have fun. The type r is just a perfect daily that’s fun without having to rev it out.
@@BlueFL5 Different definitions of fun I guess! I really enjoy cars that have to be pushed to the limit
@@revaholic I agree there’s fun in that. I guess what I’m trying to say is my FRS was boring to drive slow and my current FL5 is fun driving slow. Since it has low end torque.
@@BlueFL5 That is true. The FRS's engine was definitely its weak point
@@BlueFL5 yeah same! I felt this too which led me to sell my GR86. Fun in the canyons but anywhere else it wasn't what I was looking for.
Just add oil cooler Chris to the brz and still cheaper than type r or even gr Corolla for long term track use. I mean all three u still need to change pads, oils and etc for track. Rwd and NA is always the best combo.
Unfortunately, it'll be tough to get a Type R since of the seat recall.
I really think the Gr corolla is better to replace the brz, just since the Gr corolla has what the brz offers but even funner, it cant really compete with the type r as its fully focused for intense sport. But I personally would get a gr corolla over the brz.
BRZ/86 is definitely the best bang for your buck but I like the type R. Plenty of space and even though it cost a LOT, it holds value/appreciates and this is coming from a toyota fan boy
LOL TOPHER at 27:23 the word fifty had you spraying spit all over your wheel man
The civic R is cool, but I can’t get over the front wheel drive aspect of it
Bro, did you even watch the vid? It's the best driver's car of the group and one of the best driver's cars ever made for any amount of money. 🤦
Yeah, that kills it when you throw mods at them. And tire costs WILL BE insane, trust me...been there done that!
Vroom! Vroom! Vroom! I'm starting to get excited for my BRZ Limited manual June arrival. May I get a list of mod suggestions from you for daily driving and street fun? I'm also interested in the body raise for more clearance. I'm really enjoying your videos. Thank you!
its in the description. no boltons just axleback
You're going to want an exhaust, perferably for 2nd gen such as the AWE Touring or the STi one, so you can unplug the sound generator behind the glovebox and still hear something, stock is too damn quiet (thanks California!). Not too loud if you want to keep your sanity as the cabin isnt the best insulated for my Invidia N2 and the stereo system is underwhelming. I plan to put a bass hub in the wheelwell at some point.
PPF if you care about the paint a lot, it chips very easily, especially on the highway. Mines was swirl-city by the f^&king dealer (Tell them "DONT TOUCH IT!"). It is expensive to PPF though.
A wireless carplay dongle (newer gen ones connect faster) and a dashcam are nice for peace of mind.
Add some overlays (mines from stickerfab were cheap) to the rear blinkers so you dont get the hyperflash (google this!). When it happens (sun hits the LEDs) the lights dont go on which is dangerous. An STi or slightly heavier shift knob will help put into gear easier, the shifter can be very notchy. I also got an MTEC clutch spring to replace the stock, it is very assisted and feels annoying. Was the cause of a lot of stalls learning to drive, the MTEC makes it progressive, simple but awkward install did myself as a newbie.
I ripped off the carbon filter from the airbox which tested adds like 5hp, might need it for emissions later though and its glued on.
Also I suggest buying the GR tail, it looks amazing on this car, they should all have it. Mines is black on my sapphire. Contrats on the purchase! These are my "necessary" mods.
P.S. I also added the STi trim pieces (third-party tho, original are overpriced), the accessory lights on the front bumper (mines have ambers also), wrapped my steering wheel (failed at a good install on an LED-rev light wheel, just go with a standard wheel (the clockspring doesnt have enough wires) ended up with parasitic battery drain. Wheels, Tires, Suspension, TBD when more financially stable.
Join the "2022+ Subaru BRZ / Toyota GR 86 Owners and Enthusiast" facebook page for a lot of mods and impressions, they post very often. Have Fun!
@@Rob165x, thank you for the detailed info. A lot of what you said went "whoosh" over my head, but I will join that group you mentioned. I did have the dealer put a clear coat on the car. They did a great job.
I know exactly what you mean about the clutch spring. Hadn't thought of that as an option.
Let's see what I've added so far.
- footwell Illumination
- short throw shifter
- clear coat
- all weather floor mats
Remaining
- mud flaps
- dual exhaust
- spare tire and rim
- camber bolts
- eventually, a lift kit
- eventually, all weather tires
My father got the GR Corolla. I drove it and I have to say it is a great, quick daily, but coming from my '18 WRX, it was nowhere near as raw or dramatic so it wasn't my favorite. A little too smooth and numb. Objectively a great car though. This is also the same reason I'm like you in preferring the AP1 over AP2. Plan on picking up one of those when the Rex is paid off. Keep up the great content!
25:13, What you say is spot on. I personally believe a lot of it has to do with the throttle tuning. I've driven every single modern Honda available with a stick shift in the last five to six years or so (Except the FL5). Every single one I drove had throttle tuning that seemed more appropriate for an automatic, except for the FK8 Type R. I suspect that Honda might have gotten lazy with setting up their manuals properly and just slapped in whatever throttle parameters the automatics had into the manual cars. That might be why the K20C1 is the only engine to not have this issue. It's the only engine that isn't available with an Auto, so it has its own mapping.
It's also sad to hear that Honda botched the dampers on the FL5. They were perfect on the FK8! No need to fix something that ain't broke. If this car lives long enough to see an update/refresh, I'm sure it'll be addressed. Maybe as soon as the next model year. They've done stuff quick like that in the past.
I've been watching your videos for 10 years or more now, from when I subscribed to The Winding Road Magazine. I think the first video I came across of yours was an ATS POV drive. The dedication, hard work, and constant refinement I see in your content is beyond impressive, especially when paired with your ever present sincerity and integrity.
Thanks for doing what you do, and keep it up!
You should try driving a 9th gen accord coupe v6-6. It is so much fun ripping through gears.
@@twwtlxmk I've owned two
I only have two gripes with my 86 since picking it up a few months ago.
1.) Gearbox is occasionally and inexplicably crunchy sometimes. Particularly in 5th but happens in all gears. It'll be nice and smooth and happy for 10 minutes then all of a sudden you get that mild grinding feeling in hand. Nothing audible but feel ick. Happens regardless of engine speed/swiftness of shift.
2.) An incessant "thumping" on light constant throttle between 1800-2500rpm 1st-4th. Get into it a every so slightly more? Goes away. I've chocked it up to a quirk with the fueling.
Sounds like you need more practice driving stick shift, the damage may have already been done and is too late to remedy.
Tbh I have had zero of these issues and I’m sitting at 12k miles on my BRZ and I feel like the gearbox has improved significantly since I first drove it at 0miles.
So maybe you got a bad trans or maybe it’s down to technique.
@@xman20427 Its improved quite a bit over time.
I'm a bit over 10k now and I don't get the grittiness very often - hardly ever. mainly when short shifting.
@@dewet2wet I noticed it’s does like a 2-3k shift at all unless the driving conditions slow. But generally on like “daily” I’ll go between 3-4k rpm it’s smoother. But the gear box loves the higher rpm shifts and always buttery smooth.
I also just changed my gear and rear diff oil at 11k miles (manual recs 30k service) but after the oil swap it made a big difference!
But definitely like the first couple thousand miles the gearbox was definitely rigid during break in.
@@xman20427 You're absolutely right. I tend to cruise around 3k nowadays. I think that helped alleviate a lot of the gripes I had.
Cruising around at 2.5-3k, shifting around 4k, the car and gearbox is much much happier. Butter smooth.
Sometimes, in traffic, I do have to short shift, and that's when I feel that bumpiness going into gear.
would be nice if you could find a gr corolla at msrp...
Would be nice if you could find a curcuit edition period. It would be nice to find any car at msrp now
@@Toymonkeyjr I mean I have a Golf R at msrp. There are tons of Elantra Ns at MSRP near me. There are a bajillion WRXs below msrp! Same with Camaro LT1s :)
@@pieswimmer1 nobody wants a golf or a hyundai
@@fantasyfan9320 Yeah? And what do you drive? Or are you just going to cry about not having access to a 50 thousand dollar 3 cylinder corolla?
@@fantasyfan9320 Elantra n? Golf r? Plenty of demand for cars like those.
Type R is more in a serious performance side and not so much about "fun" though. I love my 21 boost blue FK8 and I'd rather get the automatic BRZ for my daily. Not a fan of the GR Corollas engine and styling, its a great car for sure.
Bought GR86, then GR Corolla a few months later. Lived with them all year. GRC is a riot but 86 is more fun overall. Recently traded the GRC for an FL5 for practicality reasons. 86 still more fun.
I have a GR86 as well and I just love it so much. I’m itching to change to FL5 - which has an overall better build quality and stance. Not a fan of fwd but I think I can leave with it. Do you think i should pull the trigger?
@logenkunnasegaran3053 Is the 86 your only car? Do you need the practicality of the Civic? If yes to both it could be worth it. You didn’t mention power or speed as reasons you’re itching.. those (and those good looks) are the only things I really miss about the FL5. But they weren’t enough to make me love it near as much as my GR86. I felt like it was a bit of a waste for me and sold the FL5 after a year. I think I’m content now with GR86 as my only “fun” car.
Dude, the way you just drop the GRC's cargo cover on the cement.... isn't it someone else's car?
A shame that you can’t just go to your dealership and order a GR86 normally like any other model. In Germany there is only a „waiting list“ and you need to be lucky that your dealer will be able to place your order in the second order wave. Alternatively, you can buy one of the cars that are standing at some dealers with a ridiculous markup. These cars start here at 40k euros which makes this car pointless imo 🙄
Everything is just hyped up and rare and expensive nowadays.
Here where I live in the States, you can just order one normally. No mark up either. Just have to wait 6-12 months.
Every midwesterner should watch this comparison and follow you. Thank you sir.
am i crazy for thinking about the corolla over the CTR just for the handbrake? whats with car manufacturers and replacing the handbrake with that little notch you flick like a bean? my mk 7 R also lacks a handbrake :T
The GRC has so much grip. You're tripling the posted speedlimit on winding roads. It is insane how much it grips up. I do still love my old 08 mazda 3 hatchback. Because you can comfortably approach the limits of the car at non suicidal speeds. But man is that thing slow. I can leave my GRC in 6th and comfortably and confidentially make highway passes that I'd be dropping my 5 speed mazda into 3rd to make.
It's not perfect. It is a freaking toyota corolla after all. But with AWD, a traditional handbrake, 6 speed manual, and 300hp it is so much fun to drive and own.
The heated seats and steering wheel are nice. But I wish the seats got warmer and wish the steering wheel would turn the heat down after it hits a certain temp like the seats do. It can get uncomfortably hot. And the seats never get close to that.
Also feels very safe to commute in with the power, brakes, blindspot monitoring and radar.
It is such a stiff car. Jacking one corner feels like it starts to lift 3 wheels off the ground.
Can you actually get that for $40k or less if you don’t get the packages?? Somehow I doubt it, just like the Civic Type R… I’ve seen those going for $60k… nuts for a front wheel drive Honda.
Not nuts when you actually drive it. It's one of the best driver's cars ever made for any amount of money. 🥴
Hey Chris, if you could only own one would you pick the BRZ or Type R? I ask because I currently own a FK8 and we are getting a Tesla M3 and I'm considering switching the FK8 Type R to a BRZ/GR86 for a more traditional sports car(RWD) + the savings it comes with selling it. Wonder if you would make that switch?
If you don’t mind too much about the power Fk8 to gr86/Brz would be a solid choice. 86/Brz is much more fun than fk8 in imf.
I'm a Toyota fan boy but was still a little unsure about the GR one but after a bit of research such as this video, I'm sold; I have to have one.
What do you think of the Integra Type S ? Do you think that's a better option than the type R ?
The more i see these the less I like the styling and the more I start to like the VB WRX
I'm with you 100%. Just ordered a custom 2023 WRX Limited. Feel like a kid waiting for X-Mas!
I love the brz/gr86
for me the type r is the pick, realiable for many years to come, and can be thrown around the track like no other and still get home in one piece.
I can't justify spending that much on a civic of any kind unfortunately. It's definitely a sweet car though
@tear728 yeah a bit overpriced but hey you get what you pay for in my opinion
Have a GR Circuit. Unfortunately/Fortunately it ships with summer tires. So to be a 4 season car you need to get yourself another set of rubbers. I went ahead and got wheels and tires for the fall/winter. The falloff of the summer tires in the cold is spooky. But 245 DWS 06 feel phenomenal hot or cold. Haven't tracked the car yet. But definitely plan on it.
1:28 my 2011 wrx hatch can fit a full size road bike without taking any of the wheels off with just the rear seats lowered.
Great job on this review! Well done balanced and great passion
I trust that Toyota and Subaru will take care of you if there is a manufacturing problem. I don't trust Honda's after purchase support.
They get you with high markup pre-purchase as well. LOL
I wonder where the Focus RS fairs between the three.
There was a time line where the veloster N would be in this conversation. Hyndai realy left as fast as the came into the sports car sector
RWD or die. The other 2 are great but they're something else. They're not pure sports cars like the twins. Only one you can drive with the throttle which rules out the economy car based sedans. And FWD/4WD understeer just sucks.
Sounds like you haven't driven any well set-up FWD's 🙂 Not all have crazy understeer. The Type R in particular is well known to turn in nicely. And you do steer a FWD with the throttle, it's just kind of.... Opposite 😅 Off throttle - weight to fronts, turns in. On throttle, weight to back, pushes out. It has a really nice rhythm once you get used to it.
@pfunkle I have. Lift off throttle oversteer is great but nothing like proper rwd imo 🍻
Faaaaaaacts 🔥 🔥 🔥
Dont understand people which are hating GR86/BRZ for power. 240hp and 250nm in 1270kg car. It is really slow? Where? On track? Maybe, but not in country roads and canyons. All its not about the speed and power. I can have a big fan with old 90hp Civic. Is it slow? 160 on country roads is slow? I dont think so, yes you must rev it and work with it, but that is about pure driving is... S2000 is too slow? Really?
I remember the old Datsun 510
The old 1800 only made 130hp on a good day. Still really fun. I agree with your take
Can’t wait to compare, I’ll be getting a GR Corolla in a couple weeks, and I currently own and FRS, so can’t wait to switch back and forth between the 2.
Thanks for pointing out how predictable and satisfying NA engines are when driven near the limit. I've also like to drive a gear high, maintaining momentum, and the non-linear response with turbo engines detracted from that.
I do like the BRZ/GR86 (modern 240Zs, IMO), but wish that I could have their chassis beneath a more traditional 2-box hatchback body.
The only thing I don't like about the GR Corolla are the tack-on look rear quarter panels. If it was flush and part of the body like the GR Yaris, I think it'd look a lot better. As for the GR86/BRZ, I really wish toyota took the their own 2.5 I4 engine from the Camry and modified it to make 240hp/190Tq or something. It would probably sound better, be more reliable, and get better MPG.
The worst part about the GR86/BRZ is that it's a subaru
I agree 100%
Low hood and low COG would be out the window though.
It's shocking that the toyota corolla gr circuit is $56,865 and the type r is $51,955 here in canada before taxes. After watching team o'neil drvie the 2023 GR Corolla and showing how it will maintain a drift in the snow and not cut power from the rear was very surprising especially after seeing that it wouldn't hold a drift in the wet or dry conditions. I'm wait to see if subaru release a Sport-Tech RS model of the brz.
I went into my drive way and hopped in my gr carolla to go for a spin…. Then I woke up
Just curious, with regards to the corolla, is there a pedal dance mode that can be turned on/off?
I've seen videos of the 86 having that mode, and I'm hoping the corolla/Yaris have the same feature.
In the GR Corolla, press the AWD mode selector to engage track mode and move the drive mode selector to sport, then hold the traction control off button and it puts it in expert mode with all electronic nannies turned off. I’m not sure if it has a mild amount of stability control going on in the background still, but that should turn off all assists.
Should be worth mentioning that the BRZ is much less expensive than the TypeR or GR Corolla.
Not anymore, a new one can run you $40k
@@iJarib ok? the markup on a ctr or gr Corolla is going to be even more
@@iJarib They are like 29-32k delivered.
It would be nice if you compare the wrx 2022 with other car.. so few channel compare the new wrx, people argument alot about the look and it's okay, we all have our taste. However, the car really have great reviews, sharper in the corner than the last gen, on the dino test the wrx 2022 showed more torque than the last gen etc. Anyway, would be nice to see comparison with the new wrx.
I think this is a great video and would love to see more comparisons like this. What if you put the Cadillac CT4-V BW into this mix?
Which one will be a great first manual car? I’m planing to learn MT this summer. I’ll probably sell me automatic gr86 that I drive for ten months after getting drivers license. I’m thinking about gr corolla or fl5 because it has more safety features and auto rev match (which the manual GR 86 doesn’t)
Which one will be good for a driver that begins to learn manual? (I have a gr86 AT for a year, and I think I’m ready to switch to a MT)🏎️🏎️🏎️
Honda has amazing shifter best of this group. The BRZ was so easy it took no adjustment even after being in an automatic for 4 years.
From other reviews it goes Honda, 86 then Toyota GR
Honda has the best gearboxes in history. But any one of those can be excellent car to learn manual on.
Great comparison, and also a great video, enjoyed watching this one. Out of curiosity, out of the 3, which would be the best for long and short road trips? Also which one would be the worst for road trips?
They’re all pretty good tbh. GR Corolla and Type R have adaptive cruise and lane centering which helps take some fatigue off, but the BRZ is pretty comfortable on long road trips too. I wouldn’t hesitate to take any of these on a longer trip.
@@TheTopher Good to know. In the future, any of these 3 could be a good replacement for my GTI. Thanks for the response, keep up the good work with the car reviews.
What if you put the GR corolla on 205 width all seasons tho? More fun on the street?
Hey @TheTopher,
With the 4:3 rear diff in the BRZ, do you think that, along with headers + tune and exhaust could make the car a bit punchier in the acceleration department? Or at least ~as fast as some of the cars that are usually a step up in performance in practical street driving?
I like _so_ much about the GR86/BRZ, and would rather put money into making it a little quicker in the acceleration department than buy a car that's just naturally faster from the factory / dealer lot because I like so much about it. I don't know what's realistic though; I'm sure it _can_ be made faster while keeping it NA, but I'm not sure what's all possible.
Bought my 23 BRZ in large part thanks to your ownership reviews.
Couple questions:
1) What wedge are you using there in the backseat for the car seat?
2) Which crash bolts should I get for the front and how much negative camber would you recommend?
Thanks!
Sweet! In the back seat that’s just a black towel. I think I got my crash bolts on tirerack. Would recommend 1-1.5° of front negative camber, 0 toe
@@TheTopher thanks!
what a great comparison. thank you for this
is it weird that I didn't pick up on turbo lag when test driving one of these?
Was I doing it wrong?
Yesssss! Been waiting for this
There’s probably a reason the Type R suspension is so stiff. It’s tuned for Sazuka correct? Honda spent millions developing the suspension for the FL5, I wouldn’t recommend changing the suspension unless you’re genuinely tuning it for a specific track.
@Topher when you are going out for an errand, which keys do you choose? BRZ or CTR?
on balanxe type R is a better car all rounder. I am getting one. Can you get one at MSRP price?
I think what Honda is doing with the K20C is amazing! Peak torque at 1500-2500 rpm (model dependent) is really good for a gas 4 cyl. I wish manufacturers would stop chasing high hp and realize that torque is what really makes a driving experience fun. The cars I’ve had the most fun in have more low rpm torque. Not having to put the pedal down just to get out of the way goes a long way for driver satisfaction and fuel economy! Turbos make torque, so let them 😂
Good power, 5 doors and not too much big. Maybe the Corolla the most equilibrate of these.
If you had to choose between the Type R and BRZ as your daily, which would you choose (and would that answer change if practicality was not a concern?
Can't beat the value of the BRZ/GR86!
Great review!
For me the car to go neck a neck with the type R(if they were serious) is the Mazda3. Mazda should have a car to compete with Civic type R.
It would take too much work for them to do it and it wouldn't sell. The Type R, as good as it is, trades on it's name to some degree. And the Mazda wouldn't have that.
Are the new Z’s under 50k? I’m sure they have an insane mark up for them since I know there is a lot of people waiting to get there’s. I thought basic one starts in the lower $40s k but I could be wrong and I’m sure you want more than just the basic package too.
27:25 Für was benötigen sie eine Sitzheizung ? Wenn sie diesen Type R nach Vorschrift bewegen , sitzen sie nach wenigen Minuten im eigenen Saft .😁
I am looking to buy a BRZ for the low price tag but I've been deep down sad that I would be missing out on too much for not getting a GR Corolla. But boy even as I was watching the vid the BRZ feels much more fun with its low limits and that loud engine sound. I am surprised that the Corolla is not as fun as it is advertised. That red definitely looks great though.
get the brz i love mine even after driving a gr corolla
@@Jeff-ql1tw thanks for the valuable comment Jeff. I'll get one if I can find one :)
But circuit isn't showing as an option on the Toyoda site.
I have both the GR86 and GR Corolla. I love the Corolla but I find the 86 to be more fun, for alot less dollar.
I'm curious how you'd compare the BRZ to the Mustang 2.3 Turbo, which is in the same price class. Also rwd, 6 speed manual, sports car etc.
BRZ handles better but the Mustang is quicker though (and much heavier).
Oversteer starts at around 60mph on a highway entrance/exit?
Would you take a WRX TR over the FL5 CTR?
When are you doing the M2 Review? ive ordered the car a couple months ago, just need Topher's stamp of approval now
I decided to hold off on the new M2 to see if they would have a Competition trim soon. I got tired of waiting for more info to come in and bought a Miata to hold me over. I've been having so much fun with this car that I actually forgot about the M2. Plus, I really don't like the way the new M2s look, but I'm sure they're amazing to drive on the track.
I have the Elantra n I got last year but ordered the m2 since it was goijg to take 18 months to get here. And for some reason I actually really like design of the m2. It reminds me of the old boxy BMWs. Like the e36 M3
i own a 6 mt integra, and i love it, goals for my future are having a type s, and a gr86 av to slide with, a house w my wifey
Im curious, are reviewers told to say “there isn’t a good place to put your phone” for the brz/86?
Literally every reviewer says that.
great video man!
I’m just glad there has been a lot of great cars produced the last 5 years
GR86 and “falls on its face on the track” is not at all what I think driving mine on the track…. “Is today the day low oil pressure around turn 17 causes a warranty claim that may not get covered?” Is one however