If you're a fan of the 90's style JDM cars then the BRZ is definitely the one to go for. The interior design is pretty timeless in my opinion. If you often drive around with 4 people and in winter a lot and stuff like that, then I think the Si edges it out in practicality.
Thanks for these videos on the BRZ/GR86, especially comparing to other options. Currently debating buying one and the only thing holding me back is my location (midwest) and road noise at high speeds.
It's gonna be awesome when you get a type r! You've been wanting one for years. The FL5 was worth the wait. I can't wait for the press drives to happen soon.
You are a hero for putting child seats and a stroller into your Subaru BRZ. Child will have fond memories of sitting in the rear seats of your 2+2 sports coupe. 👍 The 4-door Honda Civic Si starts to come into its own once the kids outgrow their child seats and need to be dropped off for soccor/basketball/hockey practice with their gear.
Great review, thanks! so your final verdict is, that if you dont need the practicality and better daily friendlyness of the Si and just wanna go for having the most fun with the car, one should go with the BRZ. However, if you also take the Civic Type R into account, which one between the new BRZ and the Type R is the more fun car to drive if you again exclude the practicality?
Would this make you feel like you are driving something close to an s2000? Ever since I sold it I have been searching for a car that drives close to it, especially the drive train combo and sheer excitement that car provided.
I've driven both, SI all the way. Better shifting, mpg, space, maintenance costs, wireless android Auto, magic steering (keeps you centered in lane over 45mph). 86 is a little more performance but i think an mx5 is a better buy, they are basically the same size. Just my opinion
Honestly though - if it's your only car, and you don't really use rear seats, and you want something sporty (i.e. in this market), almost all arrows point @ GR86/BRZ
Hey TheTopher, have you noticed any pops and crackle on the stock exhaust? I'm getting some very quiet, muffled popping when downshifting from 3rd to 2nd, around 2-3k rpm. Can't find much info on the internet except some speculation about a heat shield above the muffler rattling. But after paying more attention I think it's just stock exhaust crackling a little bit at very specific rpm levels. Any thoughts?
Oh yeah, If you drag the clutch a little on downshifts it’ll pop almost every time. Pretty cool, and from what I’ve heard sounds gnarly with an aftermarket exhaust!
The Civic Si makes a lot of sense if you already have an impractical sports car (i.e. an Elise, S2k, Caterham, mx-5). Otherwise, I think most "enthusiasts" would be left wanting more excitement. That being said, it does handle really well for being FWD...but it'll always have that asterisk.
Great video and timing as I was also x-shopping both cars. Ultimately went with the Si because I felt it made a better overall daily (sublime shifter, excellent mileage, Bose audio system kicks ass) and offers more practicality. It also has much better tuning flexibility but the GR/BRZ definitely have sexier exteriors and RWD....if I went with my heart instead of my brain, I would be easily driving a GR.
yeah and they handle much better, I'd say the premium that the elantra N brings is miles above, that car literally competes with the civic type r that's how fast it is.l. you're getting a real beast and not a plaything, 300 horsepower(what it dyno's at)
Really wish they would move the engine start button to the steering wheel on sports cars. Everything is tied into the CANBUS anyways so it wouldn’t be that much more difficult to integrate it. The compromise would be minimally added cost to steering wheel replacement if the airbag blows up or difficulty in replacing the steering Mfg wheel for aftermarket replacement…which shouldn’t be needed if they get it right.
I prefer a natural aspirated engine, with rear wheel drive that you can turn off the traction control. But to mpg, the si is superior.I only wish that the 86/BRZ had an sun roof or convertible option.
Curious, why do you prefer the smaller setup? I know your track setup is on 16 inch wheels like what's the benefit other than more sidewall and potential downsides to downsizing? Also do you prefer the 17 inch wheels that come with the base over the 18 inch?
The 17s look better than the 18s. Tires are cheaper and sidewall is a good thing. It's a win win win. On the GR86, I think the 18s look better- the 17 inch Toyota wheels are ugly.
@@ak2112 why would anyone get 18s then? I get in theory they handle better but I agree that they look better, just thinking about pros and cons and if i want the base model or top trim when I get an 86
@@rukki8497 18s look better on the 86, and less tire sidewall will equate to a more direct and sporty feeling. The downside is 17s will ride more comfortably and typically weigh less but I'm not sure how true this is for the factory wheels. In saying that the differences will be very slight and the biggest difference will be tire compounds. Topher has 17"s, Michelin Primacys and the softer Subaru suspension so all his eggs are in the comfort basket. Kind of jealous tbh. That's the route I'd take with the Subaru. If the 86s ride is too firm your best bet would be some adjustable coilovers instead of trying to mess with wheels though. Lots of complaints about how firm the 86 suspension gets in the cold.
I hope they fixed the rust issues on the BRZ/GR86. The previous gen rusted in every edge from trunk to hood due to bad metals and paint adhesion, I remember my dealer had to repaint almost half of the car back in 2018.
@@ReggieSanchez23 The problem with ceramic coating is that it does not fully reach the inner edges of the trunk, the hood, and the window areas. Even good shops won't reach those. The only solution to that rust nonsense was to let the dealer take out the entire part and repaint the factory paint as it did not adhere properly and let road salt into those edges. Factory paint quality just isn't the same anymore, exact same issue with my 2020 Camry.
The fuel economy on the Si is incredible. What are you seeing in your BRZ (in real life - not what is on the sticker). Thanks. I typically get about 31 on my '17 - mixed driving, not terribly aggressive, but if I hit some twisties and play, it doesn't seem to impact mileage greatly. In longer interstate with 70 mph limits, I think I still pull 31-32. Not bad, but not the 2.4L.
I went a different route and ordered a WRX today. You can order it any way you want and Subaru isn't allowing dealers to mark it up. AWD drive is nice since I'm also in Michigan. Of course the downside is mpg and maybe the looks but I don't actually mind the cladding in magnetite gray. See you at the DTE trails!
@@TheTopher I ordered a 22. Sales manager assured me there are no significance changes for the 23 but will still have a "slight" MSRP bump. They aren't available to purchase yet either and I need a car somewhat soon so I can avoid putting more money into my current one. Should be 10-12 weeks. Was able to negotiate the short throw shifter option at no cost.
Could you guys please comment on the RTV sealant found in the oil pickup tube strainers affecting 2022 GR86s? This is a potentially major issue and I hope Toyota/Subaru take steps to correct this problem. The issue is that the colour of the RTV retrieved is not just from the oil pan but potentially also from the timing chain covers. For a car that is made to be driven in autocross/track, engine oil starvation from a silly but major issue like this is a huge problem to the car's reputation.
I’m not too concerned about it at this point. This is a classic case of something getting blown out of proportion imo. The oil pickup is 5-sided and would take A LOT of sealant to become clogged enough to oil starve the engine. We’re still in the early stages of collecting data on failures, the extent of the issue, etc. The good thing is that it is now on Toyota and Subaru’s radar and Toyota has confirmed that they’ll honor warranties on track driven cars. I assume Subaru will follow suit. If you’re really concerned, keep your engine stock/and or keep stock parts in case something happens. I haven’t heard of as many cases of excessive sealant in the BRZ for some reason, my BRZ doesn’t have any sealant on the dip stick whereas a GR86 press car we just had did have a small amount (6k miles). We’ll see how it plays out but for now I wouldn’t let it ruin your ownership experience or deter from buying. I’m keeping my BRZ and driving the heck out of it!
Traded my 2020 Veloster N Full PP 6MT back to Hyundai... And I am about to receive this car next week in 6AT. Any thoughts about which one is better in your opinion? I LOVED the Veloster N... Especially the manual 2020's valvetronic exhaust. Perfect tone and poppy. But I wanted something RWD, low, sporty, and 2 door. Also modding is crazy on the BRZ. What do you think?
Unless you have a 2nd daily car I don’t think you should go for one of these, I had a Honda Civic si 2013 coupe, and trust me, daily driving coupes as much fun and cool as they can be they are very uncomfortable to live with and I still had a lot of trunk space in my civic but in a brz there’s no trunk space, so unless you got another daily 4 door I don’t think it’s the best choice, I love my 4 door civic si 2015
Have had my Si for a little over 6 months now and I’ve got to say it’s much better than I’ve anticipated. I’ve tuned out Rev-Hang thanks to the simplicity of Ktuner, put some better tires on it, and it’s a blast. Settles really nice at highway speeds but darts into corners when I need it. On the list for a TypeR due to how much I like the Si. (I traded a V60 T6 for the Si)
@@sabalza123 only if you have a catastrophic engine failure that was caused by the tune. Tuning doesn’t automatically void warranty. However if the dealership can prove that the tune caused such problem, yes that would mean your warranty is voided. KTuner is very conservative and safe for this platform, it’s only when people start doing custom tunes where the problems arise.
Dear Mr .TheTopher, hit up Serra Honda up by grand rapids, not too far from you - they really dont do markups and might be able to get you that no markup type R allocation :) No, i do not work there lol just good experiences even recently while in this wild market.
Brz Toyota 86 before an Si ..i prefer the Gti over the Si for lower price (in canada) Just for the Rwd nothing compare to go fast in a corner and floor it to do a little drift. Dont get me wrong i own 5 civic Si one s2000 and now a mx-5 2007 on the track. Brz and 86 best bang for the buck on the market of analog car !! 😉😊😊😊😊
That is a great question? Have owned 3 Si's. I would take the BRZ! At least till the last payment. Just want the Si to come to the party with a little more HP. Still a great car.
@@roboticvenom1935 is that right? Tell that to the Japanese market and consumers there. Read up on Japanese news about the GR86. I'm not blowing anything out of proportion. I bet if you dropped the pan on every new GR86, there will be sealant in the pickup. Unacceptable.
@@TheTopher I've been mustering up the courage to do so, but I can't get over the fact that they drill holes into the body. haha. I'm on a GR86 and I was thinking about just doing the entire underside. Is it possible in a next video related to your BRZ ( say like... Winter driving ) or long-term review, could you show the whereabouts of the treatment and how they plugged up the holes? Curious to know. I'm only 3 months into ownership of my car.
Thanks for the video, very helpful! One thing you didn’t mention was the interior. IMO the Civic’s interior is much better finished. Feels more premium, more expensive than it actually is. All the little things, like the beautiful shift knob and center console, HVAC controls, etc. I’m pretty conflicted. Don’t need the back seats and love the twins’ coupe shape, but like the drivetrain and interior a lot better on the Civic.
nah elantra N shits on it for 33k, it's literally a whole other TIER of performance, it matches the civic type R almost in speed. Much better purchase, and sounds amazing unlike the si
Would you get the Hyundai Elantra n-line DCT premium spec ( in Australia we get the Korean spec with leather interior, double screens , heated and cooled seats etc and we call it the i30 n-line sedan) or a Honda civic SI/BRZ?
@@roboticvenom1935 the Elantra N misses heaps of features in USA compared to Australia. Also the n-line is way more comfortable than the N with better daily suspension and gets all the premium features , completely different cars..
@@roboticvenom1935 much better than the i30n in Australia? Lol no you're wrong. Australia gets the highest trim n sedan in the world. Even better than Korea
@@roboticvenom1935 in Australia we get the two digital screens. In America the 2023 n-line gets the digital screens as well. The n-line is faster the the SI with a DCT .. handling is debatable. The BRZ interior is garbage but definitely a better driver's car. If you drive auto the n-line DCT is easily better than both. The Honda SI here is like 48k here and a n-line is like 40k. Honda is almost irrelevant in Australia. Nobody buys them anymore All are average though , that's why I upgraded to the i30 n sedan. Wipes the floor with anything near it's price range except perhaps a golf r but that's 20k more
Civic Si is a no brainer for me. I've never been at a spot in my life where a 2 seater would fit my lifestyle. Ever since highschool i've been hauling friends and family around on a weekly basis so I've never even considered a coupe. Maybe when I'm older and have extra money for a 2nd fun car
@@TheTopher Managed to find an automatic on the lot to sit in, but it was marked up to $42k :( . Nice seating position, steering wheel was a good size, but festooned with buttons. Styling is okay, but I would fancy a spoiler delete myself.
Would it be possible, maybe in a few years, to make 6th gear taller in the BRZ/GR86 for highway driving? I feel like it's a bit short and droney at highway speeds (80mph)
I absolutely love my '22 Si, but if I didn't need the four doors and big trunk, I would probably have gone for the 86. Ain't no drive like rear-wheel drive.
@@MeltingRubberZ28 nah the GTi is a pretty different car and the elantra N wasn't a thing when i got my mk7.5, only the veloster N and it's shitty dct. GTI still cleans up the streets, a modded elantra N w/ some mix of e85 will take mine though, but sure yeah i don't have a ton of bias for any one car brand so I can assess any vehicle pretty well because of that
im 6 feet tall 175 and its comfortable with the seat lowered all the way lol, it’s definitely comfier than a miata but not as comfy as an si.. its a coupe vs a sedan tho so that’s to be expected
I had a 2013 FR-S and a 2019 Civic Si. Both are great cars. The Si will feel faster most of the time, and perhaps reminded me of a 2000 Integra Type R with modern features and more comfort. Edit: This won’t be the case with the GR86/BRZ of course because of the increased power output on the 2.4L. The FR-S was more enjoyable as a pure sports car with its super quick steering and tail happy nature. My choice? Neither lol In the end I went with another car you spoke highly of in your group chat video and picked up a ‘22 Camaro SS 1LE. The car has been fantastic so far, although depending on your budget and family size I can’t recommend it over a Civic or GR86 as a do everything daily car because of the gas mileage, rear seat room, and how much more it will cost to purchase. Surprisingly, the insurance is much cheaper than my Civic was and our current CR-V is.
@@roboticvenom1935 They sell well and are wildly popular for a reason, bruh. It’s my wife’s car mostly. Great family car. Comfortable, easy to drive, low cost, and plenty of cargo space for larger purchases. Had a 2014 V6 Camry for a few years too and it was actually my favorite car ever for a while. When you get a little older, you find yourself understanding why people enjoy cars from segments other than sports cars and “driver’s” cars. That said, along with my Camaro I also have a 1991 MR2 Turbo in the garage with a built motor, full race manifold, Xona Rotor turbo, trunk mount intercooler, Tein Flex coil overs, and other mods. I love performance cars, but I just appreciate cars in general.
Yes, the GR86 is a much superior car, every single review has put it ahead, better handling and better power, as well as interior. It's no surprise given it;s a new car, the current miata is a 6 year old vehicle.
@@roboticvenom1935 it loses all those points because I can't put the top down. There's always a faster car, but very few that make me as happy as my miatas.
I owned a 22 brz for two months and sold it due to personal reasons. But I have watched every single one of your si videos and I am 100% sold on it. Type R would be ideal, but I'm not spending $50k for one
The GR86/BRZ do have blind spot detection...you just have to be in the upper trim to get it. The Si isn't a sport car when compared to the gr86 or brz, so I think it's apples and oranges. The GR86 or BRZ look better and perform better...but the Si is a sedan that is a little more practical if you need the storage or backseat space.
@@TheTopher just making sure. I’m already concerned about rtv making it’s way into the oil strainer. If you had said you were burning oil already I think I’d stop considering the gr/brz platform all together.
I’m left with a dilemma. I have a GR86 but am strongly considering the new Type-R or the GR Corolla as a daily driver (the GR86 will stay of course lol). Also depends if I could get any of them for MSRP lol.
For me the beauty of Type R or GR Corolla is that they fill the role of a daily as well as are fun on weekends, etc. If I was planning on getting one of them for a daily, I would most likely not keep GR86. Instead I'd be going with something more extreme for a second car. Like a two seater/convertible.
the new type r is near 50k. If you want good value you consider the elantra N, the only question is, have you forgotten about that car lmfao? it literally is as fast as the 2020 civic type r
@@roboticvenom1935 I haven’t forgotten I just don’t care for it. I love the Veloster N, and that’s actually an option for me as well. Old Type-R was 37k or 44k for the LE edition. IF and ONLY if you can find them without markup. Are you sure new Type-R would be that high? Wouldn’t make sense. They haven’t released pricing yet so I’m skeptical.
Did you have already a chance to test drive the new Type R? Curious to know which one is the more fun car to drive in general (GR86 vs Type R). I dont need the practicality of a Sedan, hence I would get a GR86 over a Civic Si. But comparing the GR86 to the Type R might be another story
I’m really between the GR86 and FL5 Type R. The GR86 is such value for the money and a great RWD experience, but people love to say the CTR is like a FWD GT3. Henry Catchpole said the CTR has a better shifter than the GT3… crazy. My GR86 should be ready within a month or two, and I made sure to get an early spot on an MSRP only list for the R. Might end up turning the GR86 down.
@@kohtsa i think if you're talking about what you get out the box then yes I'd think it would be no competition the type r will be the more capable car all day. However if Toyota made q type r equivalent with the gr86 then a sports car will always be the better starting point. What do you think?
@@RCXDerp Honda is on top of their game when it comes to affordable manual shifters. Haven't heard anything good about Ford manual transmissions aside from the t56 being stout. I really wish other manufacturers took shifter feel more seriously
I like the looks of the GR86 a lot better than the smiley look of the BRZ, but the Subaru dealership in my area is a lot more honest, has better service and isn’t gouging with markups like the Toyota dealerships. Leaning Miata RF for my next car, but will definitely checkout the BRZ.
@@roboticvenom1935 whatever. This Miata is a 6 year old design. It took them 10 years to make a car that doesn’t look as good as a Miata and barely outperforms it with 40+ more HP. Miata looks a lot better, especially the RF.
@@roboticvenom1935 Literally every reviewer says the Miata has a better interior than the Toyaburu twins. Less roomy and practical, to be sure, but much more upscale, with far superior materials quality.
After driving both as well, I think the BRZ has more potential for fun... Rwd, propper e-brake. Meanwhile the Si is faster, easier to add notably more power with a simple tune, more refined drive - quieter, smoother, great handling and more space.
@@roboticvenom1935 -- You're comparing a track ready, FWD, 4-door, compact sedan with a nearly unlivable daily suspension, to non-track focused, RWD, subcompacts. Not even close to the same class of cars.
Civic Si is a more practical, every day driver type of car that's still fun to drive but also gets impressive gas mileage BRZ/86 is more for fun driving and drifting
From a mechanic point of view. Civic SI FTW. If you planning to keep the car for short term (5yr) BRZ or GR86. Checkout Dillon Kao video, that dude track the crap out of his Civic SI
Honda needs to bring back another RWD car, as well make a Civic Type R with AWD for once.. Times running out for them to make it :C If people are looking for a second car for fun, the civic si isn't an option. The BRZ vs the Miata is the only options now a days since we can't get the GR corolla yet.
@@roboticvenom1935 yes a hyundai and kia the most commonly stolen vehicles in the St Louis region.. and across america these vehicles are stolen and used for crimes, NO THANK YOU. I'd rather have a volkswagen GTI.
I’ve driven both, honestly just depends if you’re a Honda person or a slide around corners person.
Sums it up!
If you need four doors, Civic. Don't, GR86/BRZ
still, I'm a honda person and if I didn't need 4 doors I'd take the GR86/BRZ anyday over the Si
I was both when I had my s2000, would go with the si now with the kid n all
Just out of curiosity how did you drive a GR86? No dealer in 200 mile radius from me ever has a BRZ/GR86 sitting around to just let people test drive.
Always love when you post brz/86 vids, imo there's not enough vids out there on the car, especially POV and good quality.
I'm happy you're finally getting a Type R. You deserve it.
This is the best comparison of these 2 cars that I’ve seen. Thank you so much
If you're a fan of the 90's style JDM cars then the BRZ is definitely the one to go for. The interior design is pretty timeless in my opinion. If you often drive around with 4 people and in winter a lot and stuff like that, then I think the Si edges it out in practicality.
Thanks for these videos on the BRZ/GR86, especially comparing to other options. Currently debating buying one and the only thing holding me back is my location (midwest) and road noise at high speeds.
I'm also in the Midwest, if you did end up buying a BRZ/GR86 how has it been?
It's gonna be awesome when you get a type r! You've been wanting one for years. The FL5 was worth the wait. I can't wait for the press drives to happen soon.
You are a hero for putting child seats and a stroller into your Subaru BRZ. Child will have fond memories of sitting in the rear seats of your 2+2 sports coupe. 👍 The 4-door Honda Civic Si starts to come into its own once the kids outgrow their child seats and need to be dropped off for soccor/basketball/hockey practice with their gear.
It all comes down to how important to you are the rear seats.
great video as always! Would you do another integra video but on your roads? I would love to see how that holds up, its not up to you of course
We’ve got one coming in a few weeks!
@@TheTopher thank you king
Great review, thanks! so your final verdict is, that if you dont need the practicality and better daily friendlyness of the Si and just wanna go for having the most fun with the car, one should go with the BRZ. However, if you also take the Civic Type R into account, which one between the new BRZ and the Type R is the more fun car to drive if you again exclude the practicality?
Hi Topher! You said that the BRZ is slightly quicker. Does the 4.30 Diff widen the difference?
Would this make you feel like you are driving something close to an s2000? Ever since I sold it I have been searching for a car that drives close to it, especially the drive train combo and sheer excitement that car provided.
I've driven both, SI all the way. Better shifting, mpg, space, maintenance costs, wireless android Auto, magic steering (keeps you centered in lane over 45mph). 86 is a little more performance but i think an mx5 is a better buy, they are basically the same size. Just my opinion
This… is a video I’ve been waiting to find
honestly depends on what you need at the moment, summer car or family daily and you both can have fun with it too
Honestly though - if it's your only car, and you don't really use rear seats, and you want something sporty (i.e. in this market), almost all arrows point @ GR86/BRZ
Do you have an SPL meter to see what the readings are like on the highway?
Im a 4 door guy but I will always make an exception for a brz and/or mustang!
Hell, and here in Spain we still waiting for the release of the GR86... what envy you give to us xD
Great video. I do appreciate how you don’t dunk on one car to elevate the other. I have 10th Si because young kids but dream of GR86 one day
Used to have a BRZ at 23, now years later the Civic SI is a practical daily driver, both cars a great for different reasons
elantra N>
@@roboticvenom1935 but if you buy an Elantra N, you end up with a Hyundai
Is the brz a comfortable car ?
I dont know if you or anyone knows, but how would this car compare with an e90 325i?
Is that a speedmaster I'm seeing?
Which one has the stronger paint?
Hey TheTopher, have you noticed any pops and crackle on the stock exhaust? I'm getting some very quiet, muffled popping when downshifting from 3rd to 2nd, around 2-3k rpm. Can't find much info on the internet except some speculation about a heat shield above the muffler rattling. But after paying more attention I think it's just stock exhaust crackling a little bit at very specific rpm levels. Any thoughts?
Oh yeah, If you drag the clutch a little on downshifts it’ll pop almost every time. Pretty cool, and from what I’ve heard sounds gnarly with an aftermarket exhaust!
The Civic Si makes a lot of sense if you already have an impractical sports car (i.e. an Elise, S2k, Caterham, mx-5). Otherwise, I think most "enthusiasts" would be left wanting more excitement. That being said, it does handle really well for being FWD...but it'll always have that asterisk.
Yep. I have an SI and an S2000
Out of the 2, no doubt the BRZ or GR86.
brz video? yes please. From TheTopher? Even better.
Great video and timing as I was also x-shopping both cars. Ultimately went with the Si because I felt it made a better overall daily (sublime shifter, excellent mileage, Bose audio system kicks ass) and offers more practicality. It also has much better tuning flexibility but the GR/BRZ definitely have sexier exteriors and RWD....if I went with my heart instead of my brain, I would be easily driving a GR.
yeah and they handle much better, I'd say the premium that the elantra N brings is miles above, that car literally competes with the civic type r that's how fast it is.l. you're getting a real beast and not a plaything, 300 horsepower(what it dyno's at)
@@roboticvenom1935 it is a vanity issue, but the N just looks ridiculous to me
Really wish they would move the engine start button to the steering wheel on sports cars. Everything is tied into the CANBUS anyways so it wouldn’t be that much more difficult to integrate it. The compromise would be minimally added cost to steering wheel replacement if the airbag blows up or difficulty in replacing the steering Mfg wheel for aftermarket replacement…which shouldn’t be needed if they get it right.
great video as always, can I ask what you're using for your spare? wheel/tire size?
I mean just get a spare with the same bolt pattern. You are just using it to get to a tire repair place or to your spare full size wheel.
He said in a previous video he bought a spare meant for the previous gen BRZ
I prefer a natural aspirated engine, with rear wheel drive that you can turn off the traction control. But to mpg, the si is superior.I only wish that the 86/BRZ had an sun roof or convertible option.
Practicality and Honda vs Sporty Coupe and RWD. Can go for either
Curious, why do you prefer the smaller setup? I know your track setup is on 16 inch wheels like what's the benefit other than more sidewall and potential downsides to downsizing? Also do you prefer the 17 inch wheels that come with the base over the 18 inch?
The 17s look better than the 18s. Tires are cheaper and sidewall is a good thing. It's a win win win. On the GR86, I think the 18s look better- the 17 inch Toyota wheels are ugly.
@@ak2112 why would anyone get 18s then? I get in theory they handle better but I agree that they look better, just thinking about pros and cons and if i want the base model or top trim when I get an 86
@@rukki8497 18s look better on the 86, and less tire sidewall will equate to a more direct and sporty feeling. The downside is 17s will ride more comfortably and typically weigh less but I'm not sure how true this is for the factory wheels. In saying that the differences will be very slight and the biggest difference will be tire compounds. Topher has 17"s, Michelin Primacys and the softer Subaru suspension so all his eggs are in the comfort basket. Kind of jealous tbh. That's the route I'd take with the Subaru. If the 86s ride is too firm your best bet would be some adjustable coilovers instead of trying to mess with wheels though. Lots of complaints about how firm the 86 suspension gets in the cold.
I hope they fixed the rust issues on the BRZ/GR86. The previous gen rusted in every edge from trunk to hood due to bad metals and paint adhesion, I remember my dealer had to repaint almost half of the car back in 2018.
A ceramic coating and maybe some ppf should help prevent that ?
@@ReggieSanchez23 With a quality installation, yeah.
@@ReggieSanchez23 The problem with ceramic coating is that it does not fully reach the inner edges of the trunk, the hood, and the window areas. Even good shops won't reach those. The only solution to that rust nonsense was to let the dealer take out the entire part and repaint the factory paint as it did not adhere properly and let road salt into those edges. Factory paint quality just isn't the same anymore, exact same issue with my 2020 Camry.
Great review, now do it again but this time the Volkswagen GLI. I’d love to know your thoughts!!
and with a Hyundai Sonata and Kia K5 please.
Wondering, how its come brz's NA engine requires premium fuel, civic's turbo can run on 87 ?
The fuel economy on the Si is incredible. What are you seeing in your BRZ (in real life - not what is on the sticker). Thanks. I typically get about 31 on my '17 - mixed driving, not terribly aggressive, but if I hit some twisties and play, it doesn't seem to impact mileage greatly. In longer interstate with 70 mph limits, I think I still pull 31-32. Not bad, but not the 2.4L.
About 29-33 on the hwy, 27-28 combined. It’s maybe 1mpg down from the 2.0l, so not bad!
@@TheTopher Thanks! Nice job on the video btw. Keep up the great work.
Hey man.I am also live in Michigan.I want to get one too.But just doesn't have the color I want.
I went a different route and ordered a WRX today. You can order it any way you want and Subaru isn't allowing dealers to mark it up. AWD drive is nice since I'm also in Michigan. Of course the downside is mpg and maybe the looks but I don't actually mind the cladding in magnetite gray. See you at the DTE trails!
A solid choice! Did you order a 2023? Any idea on delivery time?
@@TheTopher I ordered a 22. Sales manager assured me there are no significance changes for the 23 but will still have a "slight" MSRP bump. They aren't available to purchase yet either and I need a car somewhat soon so I can avoid putting more money into my current one. Should be 10-12 weeks. Was able to negotiate the short throw shifter option at no cost.
@@jerrybuffington6473how has it held up? Any regrets going for it over the Honda?
To me it just depends on if you want a legit sports car, or a fun practical car.
Could you guys please comment on the RTV sealant found in the oil pickup tube strainers affecting 2022 GR86s? This is a potentially major issue and I hope Toyota/Subaru take steps to correct this problem. The issue is that the colour of the RTV retrieved is not just from the oil pan but potentially also from the timing chain covers. For a car that is made to be driven in autocross/track, engine oil starvation from a silly but major issue like this is a huge problem to the car's reputation.
I’m not too concerned about it at this point. This is a classic case of something getting blown out of proportion imo. The oil pickup is 5-sided and would take A LOT of sealant to become clogged enough to oil starve the engine. We’re still in the early stages of collecting data on failures, the extent of the issue, etc.
The good thing is that it is now on Toyota and Subaru’s radar and Toyota has confirmed that they’ll honor warranties on track driven cars. I assume Subaru will follow suit. If you’re really concerned, keep your engine stock/and or keep stock parts in case something happens.
I haven’t heard of as many cases of excessive sealant in the BRZ for some reason, my BRZ doesn’t have any sealant on the dip stick whereas a GR86 press car we just had did have a small amount (6k miles).
We’ll see how it plays out but for now I wouldn’t let it ruin your ownership experience or deter from buying. I’m keeping my BRZ and driving the heck out of it!
Traded my 2020 Veloster N Full PP 6MT back to Hyundai...
And I am about to receive this car next week in 6AT.
Any thoughts about which one is better in your opinion?
I LOVED the Veloster N... Especially the manual 2020's valvetronic exhaust. Perfect tone and poppy.
But I wanted something RWD, low, sporty, and 2 door. Also modding is crazy on the BRZ.
What do you think?
Unless you have a 2nd daily car I don’t think you should go for one of these, I had a Honda Civic si 2013 coupe, and trust me, daily driving coupes as much fun and cool as they can be they are very uncomfortable to live with and I still had a lot of trunk space in my civic but in a brz there’s no trunk space, so unless you got another daily 4 door I don’t think it’s the best choice, I love my 4 door civic si 2015
there's mods for the elantra N too.. tunes, intakes, exhausts, elantra N is an evolution over veloster
why people choose FF over FR?
I bought both gr86 and civc si in the same week (7/12), Still waiting for either to arrive...hopefully in 2-3 weeks.
This guy with the answer: Both!! Love it. Enjoy!
Have had my Si for a little over 6 months now and I’ve got to say it’s much better than I’ve anticipated. I’ve tuned out Rev-Hang thanks to the simplicity of Ktuner, put some better tires on it, and it’s a blast. Settles really nice at highway speeds but darts into corners when I need it. On the list for a TypeR due to how much I like the Si. (I traded a V60 T6 for the Si)
Will tuning out the rev hang void your warranty?
@@sabalza123 only if you have a catastrophic engine failure that was caused by the tune. Tuning doesn’t automatically void warranty. However if the dealership can prove that the tune caused such problem, yes that would mean your warranty is voided. KTuner is very conservative and safe for this platform, it’s only when people start doing custom tunes where the problems arise.
At pollo loco we have a burrito called a BRC(bean rice and cheese)
Dear Mr .TheTopher, hit up Serra Honda up by grand rapids, not too far from you - they really dont do markups and might be able to get you that no markup type R allocation :) No, i do not work there lol just good experiences even recently while in this wild market.
The new Type R would be my choice now(coming from a current 2018 Civic Si owner)!
elantra N shits on it value wise, type r is like 50K.
@thetopher Are you going to fluid film for the upcoming winter or do you just get washes every week?
Yeah I’ll take it to krown rust control and get it sprayed, well worth it!
@@TheTopher thanks for letting me know! I' guessing your car is enameled too right
You live in east or west TN?
I was looking into both. I ended up ordering a 2023 Brz at msrp because the Si seemed impossible to order or find at msrp
I'm having the 86 being delivered to me next year Jan. Are you hearing about the RTV issue? I'm starting to really worry about it.
@@lawnmower6591 don't worry about it
My only question would be “will i miss my s2000 if i swap it for a gr86?” I think i will but but but …
I can’t choose to either buy a 2020 civic si or save up for a new 86/brz
Brz Toyota 86 before an Si ..i prefer the Gti over the Si for lower price (in canada) Just for the Rwd nothing compare to go fast in a corner and floor it to do a little drift. Dont get me wrong i own 5 civic Si one s2000 and now a mx-5 2007 on the track. Brz and 86 best bang for the buck on the market of analog car !! 😉😊😊😊😊
I wish they made a civic si hatch
Fr, the hatch looks way better
@@junebugg5475 Right! That’s the only reason why I wouldn’t buy an si, I don’t like the sedan look
Just get a type r
That is a great question? Have owned 3 Si's. I would take the BRZ! At least till the last payment. Just want the Si to come to the party with a little more HP. Still a great car.
Have you dropped your oil pan to check for the RTV silicone that’s plaguing the GR86?
it's not plaguing, that's blown out of proportion
@@roboticvenom1935 is that right? Tell that to the Japanese market and consumers there. Read up on Japanese news about the GR86. I'm not blowing anything out of proportion. I bet if you dropped the pan on every new GR86, there will be sealant in the pickup. Unacceptable.
Is your BRZ rust-proofed at all, Topher? Are you winters usually harsh enough to justify it?
Yeah I’ll be taking it to krown rust proofing here soon, definitely worth it!
@@TheTopher I've been mustering up the courage to do so, but I can't get over the fact that they drill holes into the body. haha. I'm on a GR86 and I was thinking about just doing the entire underside. Is it possible in a next video related to your BRZ ( say like... Winter driving ) or long-term review, could you show the whereabouts of the treatment and how they plugged up the holes? Curious to know. I'm only 3 months into ownership of my car.
Thanks for the video, very helpful!
One thing you didn’t mention was the interior. IMO the Civic’s interior is much better finished. Feels more premium, more expensive than it actually is. All the little things, like the beautiful shift knob and center console, HVAC controls, etc.
I’m pretty conflicted. Don’t need the back seats and love the twins’ coupe shape, but like the drivetrain and interior a lot better on the Civic.
Well said. I've owned 3 Si's. I want the Si to have more power! Still a great car.
elantra N ,>
@@roboticvenom1935 Good choice. Incredibly hard to get right now without paying a premium.
I bought a 22 BRZ but if I needed a back seat, SI is my favorite in that 30k fun car class.
nah elantra N shits on it for 33k, it's literally a whole other TIER of performance, it matches the civic type R almost in speed. Much better purchase, and sounds amazing unlike the si
@@roboticvenom1935 lol you commenting everywhere saying how amazing the Elantra n is. No one wants a Hyundai
Would you get the Hyundai Elantra n-line DCT premium spec ( in Australia we get the Korean spec with leather interior, double screens , heated and cooled seats etc and we call it the i30 n-line sedan) or a Honda civic SI/BRZ?
nah he'd get the elantra N which is much better then the current i30 n in Australia and as per usual priced way better. 33K USD for the elantra N.
@@roboticvenom1935 the Elantra N misses heaps of features in USA compared to Australia. Also the n-line is way more comfortable than the N with better daily suspension and gets all the premium features , completely different cars..
@@roboticvenom1935 much better than the i30n in Australia? Lol no you're wrong. Australia gets the highest trim n sedan in the world. Even better than Korea
@@mharro88 don't even get digital gauge cluster, handles worse and older. Price is worse
@@roboticvenom1935 in Australia we get the two digital screens. In America the 2023 n-line gets the digital screens as well. The n-line is faster the the SI with a DCT .. handling is debatable. The BRZ interior is garbage but definitely a better driver's car. If you drive auto the n-line DCT is easily better than both. The Honda SI here is like 48k here and a n-line is like 40k. Honda is almost irrelevant in Australia. Nobody buys them anymore
All are average though , that's why I upgraded to the i30 n sedan. Wipes the floor with anything near it's price range except perhaps a golf r but that's 20k more
Civic Si is a no brainer for me. I've never been at a spot in my life where a 2 seater would fit my lifestyle. Ever since highschool i've been hauling friends and family around on a weekly basis so I've never even considered a coupe. Maybe when I'm older and have extra money for a 2nd fun car
How does the Elantra N stack up against these two cars? Seems a bargain if u can get one at MSRP.
The Elantra N definitely is a bargain, just filmed a manual today!
@@TheTopher Managed to find an automatic on the lot to sit in, but it was marked up to $42k :( . Nice seating position, steering wheel was a good size, but festooned with buttons. Styling is okay, but I would fancy a spoiler delete myself.
Pretty ugly in comparison though.
Would it be possible, maybe in a few years, to make 6th gear taller in the BRZ/GR86 for highway driving? I feel like it's a bit short and droney at highway speeds (80mph)
I don’t feel that at all.
I absolutely love my '22 Si, but if I didn't need the four doors and big trunk, I would probably have gone for the 86. Ain't no drive like rear-wheel drive.
Yeah, imagine how great a rear wheel drive si would be with like 40 more horsepower
elantra N is miles above it, it's worth the premium no doubt!
I needed four doors as well so I went with the 2022 gti!
@@roboticvenom1935 whoa dude be leaving the VW crew
@@MeltingRubberZ28 nah the GTi is a pretty different car and the elantra N wasn't a thing when i got my mk7.5, only the veloster N and it's shitty dct. GTI still cleans up the streets, a modded elantra N w/ some mix of e85 will take mine though, but sure yeah i don't have a ton of bias for any one car brand so I can assess any vehicle pretty well because of that
BRZ can be ordered for MSRP but there is a 6-7k markup for Si.
?
Guys I am 6 feet 225 pounds and was wondering is the Brz comfortable? Because for me it’s either the civic si or the brz
im 6 feet tall 175 and its comfortable with the seat lowered all the way lol, it’s definitely comfier than a miata but not as comfy as an si.. its a coupe vs a sedan tho so that’s to be expected
The golden question is how bad is that RTV since Subaru and Toyota chose to ignore the problem
Could you comment on the details about the spare tire?? Part number?
It's just the OEM BRZ/86 spare from 2013-2020. Pick a used one up from eBay
Part number for the hold down bolt? Is it the same too? Is there a way to screw the spare into the car?
I had a 2013 FR-S and a 2019 Civic Si. Both are great cars. The Si will feel faster most of the time, and perhaps reminded me of a 2000 Integra Type R with modern features and more comfort. Edit: This won’t be the case with the GR86/BRZ of course because of the increased power output on the 2.4L.
The FR-S was more enjoyable as a pure sports car with its super quick steering and tail happy nature. My choice? Neither lol In the end I went with another car you spoke highly of in your group chat video and picked up a ‘22 Camaro SS 1LE. The car has been fantastic so far, although depending on your budget and family size I can’t recommend it over a Civic or GR86 as a do everything daily car because of the gas mileage, rear seat room, and how much more it will cost to purchase. Surprisingly, the insurance is much cheaper than my Civic was and our current CR-V is.
you biught a CRV.. bruh moment
@@roboticvenom1935 They sell well and are wildly popular for a reason, bruh. It’s my wife’s car mostly. Great family car. Comfortable, easy to drive, low cost, and plenty of cargo space for larger purchases. Had a 2014 V6 Camry for a few years too and it was actually my favorite car ever for a while. When you get a little older, you find yourself understanding why people enjoy cars from segments other than sports cars and “driver’s” cars. That said, along with my Camaro I also have a 1991 MR2 Turbo in the garage with a built motor, full race manifold, Xona Rotor turbo, trunk mount intercooler, Tein Flex coil overs, and other mods. I love performance cars, but I just appreciate cars in general.
@@Alan_Chapman nice collection of cars man just like myself.
In my area, they're marking up the Si to hell.. Meanwhile you can get a GR86/BRZ full equip at or near MSRP. Honda why?
BRZ near MSRP for sure. An 86 near MSRP I call bs
Darn it, Chris...I bought a 2022 Miata Club (partly due to your amazing videos) - did I make a bad choice? ;)
Nope, the Miata is amazing. I was seriously thinking about buying one instead of the BRZ, but needed more of a one car solution.
@@TheTopher our other car is a 2016.5 CX-5 so we're good. I don't know if I've ever been happier driving a car at 'legal' speeds.
Yes, the GR86 is a much superior car, every single review has put it ahead, better handling and better power, as well as interior. It's no surprise given it;s a new car, the current miata is a 6 year old vehicle.
@@roboticvenom1935 it loses all those points because I can't put the top down. There's always a faster car, but very few that make me as happy as my miatas.
@@AndreThompson925 This man understands the miata. They just make you happy. Wonderful little cars.
I owned a 22 brz for two months and sold it due to personal reasons. But I have watched every single one of your si videos and I am 100% sold on it. Type R would be ideal, but I'm not spending $50k for one
elantra n
@@roboticvenom1935 I have no desire to own a Hyundai unfortunately
Thats insane that scubaru barely gets better mileage than my 6.4L manual trans.
Recently just got myself a 1990 Miata, so I’m biased towards Miata over anything 😂
As someone who doesn’t haul lumber every weekend, I bought a gr86
GR86: not for lumberjacks
i would love the brz/86/frs so much more if every 16 year old didn’t own one and think it’s the fastest car on the road
The GR86/BRZ do have blind spot detection...you just have to be in the upper trim to get it. The Si isn't a sport car when compared to the gr86 or brz, so I think it's apples and oranges. The GR86 or BRZ look better and perform better...but the Si is a sedan that is a little more practical if you need the storage or backseat space.
And you have to get the automatic to get the bsm.
@@yaajmane I have BSM on my Premium MT GR86.
Does the Limited trim on the BRZ not get it with a manual?
@@yaajmane bsd comes with the manual in the upper trim, at least for the 86. It's one security feature not exclusive to the auto.
@@kenk684 brz higher trim MT does have blind spot monitor, not sure why he believes only AT has it
I think BSM availability in combination with a specific transmission for the BRZ/86 varies by region
A little side vote: 2022 BRZ/GR86 or the 2020 Honda Civic Type R?
Both
Not really comparable 28k vs 50k
@@FATmenDRIVEtrucks Woah there, the Type R is 36k, but I get your point
@@sunrize. Good luck finding a Type R at MSRP, meanwhile BRZ are being sold at MSRP. Elantra N are marked up pretty high too.
@@sunrize. go ahead and price one you gotta be in the cult to get one MSRP
Why the quart of oil in the trunk?
I always keep some in reserve in case it burns on a road trip or track day but so far hasn’t burned a drop 👍
@@TheTopher just making sure. I’m already concerned about rtv making it’s way into the oil strainer. If you had said you were burning oil already I think I’d stop considering the gr/brz platform all together.
honda should have a cheap rwd lineup cars.
Nice
Why not used Type R?
Also a solid option!
Why not a used Cayman?
I’m left with a dilemma. I have a GR86 but am strongly considering the new Type-R or the GR Corolla as a daily driver (the GR86 will stay of course lol). Also depends if I could get any of them for MSRP lol.
For me the beauty of Type R or GR Corolla is that they fill the role of a daily as well as are fun on weekends, etc. If I was planning on getting one of them for a daily, I would most likely not keep GR86. Instead I'd be going with something more extreme for a second car. Like a two seater/convertible.
the new type r is near 50k. If you want good value you consider the elantra N, the only question is, have you forgotten about that car lmfao? it literally is as fast as the 2020 civic type r
@@roboticvenom1935 I haven’t forgotten I just don’t care for it. I love the Veloster N, and that’s actually an option for me as well. Old Type-R was 37k or 44k for the LE edition. IF and ONLY if you can find them without markup. Are you sure new Type-R would be that high? Wouldn’t make sense. They haven’t released pricing yet so I’m skeptical.
@@roboticvenom1935 you again😭riding the Elantra n for nooo reason it’s forgotten because no one wants it
Did you have already a chance to test drive the new Type R? Curious to know which one is the more fun car to drive in general (GR86 vs Type R). I dont need the practicality of a Sedan, hence I would get a GR86 over a Civic Si. But comparing the GR86 to the Type R might be another story
I’m really between the GR86 and FL5 Type R. The GR86 is such value for the money and a great RWD experience, but people love to say the CTR is like a FWD GT3. Henry Catchpole said the CTR has a better shifter than the GT3… crazy.
My GR86 should be ready within a month or two, and I made sure to get an early spot on an MSRP only list for the R. Might end up turning the GR86 down.
Type R long term value will be better, and it’s also a pure Honda product if you care about that type of thing.
GR86 and Honda Civic type r don’t even compare… type r is in another league
@@kohtsa i think if you're talking about what you get out the box then yes I'd think it would be no competition the type r will be the more capable car all day. However if Toyota made q type r equivalent with the gr86 then a sports car will always be the better starting point. What do you think?
My 10th gen Si doesn't even have the Type R shifter and it feels better than my GT350
@@RCXDerp Honda is on top of their game when it comes to affordable manual shifters. Haven't heard anything good about Ford manual transmissions aside from the t56 being stout. I really wish other manufacturers took shifter feel more seriously
Si is more practical, but the BRZ is more fun
I like the looks of the GR86 a lot better than the smiley look of the BRZ, but the Subaru dealership in my area is a lot more honest, has better service and isn’t gouging with markups like the Toyota dealerships. Leaning Miata RF for my next car, but will definitely checkout the BRZ.
Gr86 and BRZ shit on miata handling, interior, and power wise. all reviewers agree
@@roboticvenom1935 whatever. This Miata is a 6 year old design. It took them 10 years to make a car that doesn’t look as good as a Miata and barely outperforms it with 40+ more HP.
Miata looks a lot better, especially the RF.
@@roboticvenom1935 Literally every reviewer says the Miata has a better interior than the Toyaburu twins. Less roomy and practical, to be sure, but much more upscale, with far superior materials quality.
One man’s opinion makes no difference to me, drive both and you decide.
Honda all the way! Wait til that vtec kicks in!
it doesn't have vtec dummy, it's a low revving 6500 rpm engine that sounds bleh
@@roboticvenom1935 not the 10th gen but 11th gen does have VTEC, just not that high revving VTEC we all know.
After driving both as well, I think the BRZ has more potential for fun... Rwd, propper e-brake. Meanwhile the Si is faster, easier to add notably more power with a simple tune, more refined drive - quieter, smoother, great handling and more space.
Disclaimer I have an Si and cross shopped both as well. Both great cars imo. I just HATE the si electronic e brake.
Do your research. BRZ is faster than an Si as BRZ has lightweight body and more hp
BRZ/GR86 are notably quicker than the Si (over 1 second quicker to 60mph).
@@ToroMoto Faster? lol
@@patrickkennedy7758 I am thinking 2017-2020 models. Are the new ones that much different?
BRZ vs BMW 230i ???
BRZ. Elantra N smokes the 230i
@@roboticvenom1935 -- You're comparing a track ready, FWD, 4-door, compact sedan with a nearly unlivable daily suspension, to non-track focused, RWD, subcompacts. Not even close to the same class of cars.
Babe wake up TheTopher just uploaded another banger
Banger? Hardly.
@@juelz4516 Babe wake up Juelz 45 replied to me
Si, more practical
Civic Si is a more practical, every day driver type of car that's still fun to drive but also gets impressive gas mileage
BRZ/86 is more for fun driving and drifting
From a mechanic point of view. Civic SI FTW. If you planning to keep the car for short term (5yr) BRZ or GR86. Checkout Dillon Kao video, that dude track the crap out of his Civic SI
Honda needs to bring back another RWD car, as well make a Civic Type R with AWD for once.. Times running out for them to make it :C
If people are looking for a second car for fun, the civic si isn't an option. The BRZ vs the Miata is the only options now a days since we can't get the GR corolla yet.
huh? elantra N is what you're forgetting, monster
@@roboticvenom1935 yes a hyundai and kia the most commonly stolen vehicles in the St Louis region.. and across america these vehicles are stolen and used for crimes, NO THANK YOU.
I'd rather have a volkswagen GTI.
@@roboticvenom1935 nobody wants a Hyundai
I would never buy a car without a handbrake for fun, and that eliminates Honda and VW for me.
Then theres me, cross shopping CTR or GR86...
elantra N mate.