CAUTION: Bambulab have taken some troubling steps toward locking down their hardware. As it currently stands the A1 and A1 mini are unaffected, and still remain my #1 recommendation for the tabletop hobby. However, anti-consumer bullshit is still anti-consumer bullshit, so please take this development into consideration if you're thinking about buying one of these printers.
I just order a p1s. Best printer for the $ imo. I'm not worried about the political side of the hardware stuff. I just want to print. It'll all sort itself out. To each their own. Cheers.
Dude same thing happened with resin printers "it sucks" "they look bad" "look at the layers".... 12k resolution later no one is complaining anymore lol
In that same sentiment resin printers are getting WAY better and cheaper. For a hundred bucks or more you can get 3x the details. FDM has its place but if you enjoy details, resin is still king.
@@stephenshields4095 i can put my 3d printer on my balcony and make it print things with 0 commitment, prep time and little to no cleaning of the results and with almost as much of detail. That worth more than a 100 bucks for me. The only thing my FDM printer can't do is ideal epic scale miniatures. Resin is the king here.
@@tartatovsky He is not wrong. Resin is a king of details. If your goal is to paint miniatures just for the game. Most stuff will do. But if you are doing it for the art and as a collecting hobby. You want everything to be perfect. Because you will look at them up close a lot.
Do you design your minis to be fdm printed and advertise that? I find a number of them really aren't. The main issue is usually lacking a flat surface to touch the build plate, or deep, narrow "valleys" that need to be filled with supports but then you can't really get the supports out.
It's amazing how the 3D printing community somehow doesn't realize that many of us live in apartments and don't have facilities for resin storage and printing
That or have compromise immune systems, have respiratory issue's or live with someone that does. Finally maybe it's just you have children of well any age where resin in particular presents a very real danger. Adults can make informed decisions they can drink as much poison as they want, smoke, spray paint their miniatures without masks and clean their ovens with hazardous chemicals etc all day long of they want but it's objectively BAD and morally CORRUPT to say children should be doing the same or exposed in the same manner.
Best argument against resin. I was able to seal my FDM printer well enough to not have any fumes escape it, but i cant justify achieving the same for resin and i really dont want toxic resin in my living room. Not everyone lives with their parents and can use their garage.
@@marschma if you have an opening window and live in a place that you can buy a drier vent its not too bad, most modern resins are low/no VOC, and water washable (doesnt mean safe to put down the drain, people washing that stuff into the sink makes me feel sick, its water washable, not safe in the water supply).
@HerbaceousM8 still gotta think about pricing. An a1 mini is $200-250. What is a half decent resin set up going to cost me ? $500 for the machine, wash, cure station ? Then what about pricing of materials ? A roll of filament is $15-30.
I'm fortunate enough to work in the field of 3D printing. This isn't a plug or a flex-just some real-world interactions with curious newcomers to 3D printing. This is a somewhat lengthy tale to support the remarks you made on your last video. I start by discussing resin and FMD printers, the differences between them, PPE requirements, and safety considerations. Is there room for post-processing there? You have to warn them about the large fireball in the sky that is spewing UV rays when they answer, "Yeah, I'll do it outside." Do they live in an apartment? Do they have kids have fish, birds, or small pets? Are they aware of the extra costs? I also ask them if they are lazy. Most people don't put on gloves and go touch their faces and walk outside, or they don't wash out or cure the print correctly, then 2 weeks later it cracks or leaks out resin. I had a few people come in looking for LCD screens because they did not clean the bed and smash a new screen on second print. This kind of stuff happens a lot more than people who print every day think, still like this is easy to us because we already have the knowledge. With FDM, you get the printer and a spool of plastic. Tell people not to print with ABS or ASA as it gives off strine gas other than that PLA PETG TPU. Its happy days start printing. Want more detail? Get a 0.2 nozzle. resin printing, you need the printer. Resin, gloves, glasses, respirator, iso or resinaway, cure station. It adds up to a lot of $$$$$ just to get started. then in the future they will need fep and maybe a screen, so this needs to be taken into account. If they are still interested in resin, most would have bailed out by now. I take them into the shop and let them see how it's all done. After seeing the postprocessing and smelling the resin, most people think it's way too much work. Now we dont sell any printers, so I dont need to push products because we just sell printer consumables. I tell people if they want to know what resin printer to buy, come to your channel and watch your reviews and watch a few other reviews and don't believe all the marketing BS. Be educated and choose the best printer for your needs and budget. There is no doubt resin prints can be sexy and crisp, but it takes a lot more of my time in postprocessing and ongoing consumables. where FDM 0.2 nozzle and low layer height you can get 80-90% to resin is without the mess. Far out, sorry for the long comment, but you did ask for one
Come on man enough with the doom and gloom resin printer stuff. It's really old, fake and tired. Oh no you need to buy a printer and the material to make it work! Exactly like you do for an FDM printer as well. Oh no you need rubber gloves, a mask and some safety glasses all of which can be bought for a grand total of about $10 that's if you haven't got a bunch laying around from the past three years. Get water washable resin, a Chinese food container, $6 Metho and a bucket, no need for a full on station and expensive gear.
Not to mention burning your house down. Also people misuse a thing and it breaks, you know like literally everything ever sold anywhere to anyone. People buy cars and destroy them with the wrong fuel, still see plenty of cars being sold every day.
@@helgehansen4458 what if what isn't? I'm the one trying to open up 3d printing, this guy is trying to turn people away from it. I think people are smart enough to figure it out
I live in an apartment. I have children. I considered resin printing and after watching many videos I ordered a A1 mini. As much as I would love the extra fine details, 2 feet away on a table top and my shitty paint job is probably fine. Last session i used lego figures.
As someone who is in a similar situation, I can tell you that you will be happy with the results that you can get with an FDM printer. Far better than nothing at all! I think I'm switching to the mini soon for its seemingly superior plug and play features.
@@NostokAgain Is it as plug and play as these videos make it out to be? I'm just so burnt out on trying to get print settings dialed in for every little print I do.
yeah i used to live with animals and its a constant thing of trying to keep track of where they are and what they have access to so they dont get toxic chemicals on their paws or in their fur
If it was printed with the Bambu matte blue from the first video about fdm minis, which it looks like it might be, im not surprised at all. While parts like that are fragile as is Im currently using a spool of Bambu's matte blue right now and hate it. It seems more brittle than their other types ive used.
I appreciate how much emphasis you put on resin printing SAFELY So many people I know just raw-dog a resin printer in their kitchen or something and I'm just like... dude I spent more on the paper towels, gloves, respirators, etc. than the printer itself (cheapo on sale but still)
@@karldoesstuffYT But those costs are mitigated by skill, and are far less. You are comparing the costs of a multi thousand dollar fume hood setup to a 2 dollar bottle of rubbing alcohol you buy every 2 weeks and a 10 dollar box of gloves you do the same with. Disingenuous and malicious. Leave.
Best advice I got from a friend was while I was fussing about painting someting and he just said "It looks really detailed already, you're looking at them from like 3 feet away" Thanks for this video, I've been watching it while I paint my Necrons
you have the most chaotic painting style lmao. The speedpaint directly on the model gave me a conniption in the best way possible! Also, i forgot that these were FDM minis be the time you got the basecoats on. Should you submit an FDM printed mini to a painting competition? hell no. but at tabletop distance, the paint makes the layer lines disappear.
If I've learned anything from W40k memes its that they can reach up through the collar of their armor, and that probably makes eating a lot easier too.
@@clanpsi i dont have issues with that. I even started to play using bottle caps to represent my troops. If someone comes and says to me "i want to try this Unit, but I dont have the model, may i use this instead?", i would say yes. But if you invested on the models, at least you can take the effort to make them look better.
As an avid resin printer, FDM enthusiast and painter that sells my creations, I can say that to me, these looks good enough! I do not have a single problem with FDM minis in super high quality. (aside from maybe being a little too prone to breaking - as you demonstrated). Keep up the great work!
Look, if anyone enjoys this hobby differently than I do, they’re wrong; whether or not they know all my preferences ahead of time. It’s also necessary for me to be excessively and publicly critical of anyone doing it wrong, which as previously stated, is anything that deviates from my way.
And that is without getting into the whole 'what colour lenses should my tactical squad have?' I mean, come on people, stick to the pure GW canon - even if it changes with each edition :)
I laughed when you basically squirted the mini. I feel like you were going out of the way to show the complainers more things that will grind their gears. I just can't imagine you doing that normally.
@@ErgonomicChair yeah but the one with higher resolution it was ok, not perfect yeah, but god damn it was better than i've seen with a 3D printer like that
@@BI0PARC0 I mthink its perfectly fine to like this quality but event hat "best" nozzle was horrible. It slightly hit the lines on the shoulders as they were not smooth, but looks t the top? Every time the light semi catches it, it looks like you cut a tree open with all those rings. Alos a lot f crunch of the edges etc. Not kidding when I am saying that lead models from the 70s looked better than these... if you want them, that's fine? But people coping and trying to say they are better than Resin or GW plastic? These people are gonna mislead new people to the hobby into negative expectations and disappointment.
whilst the quailty of the FDM models isnt for me because I come at the hobby from the painting side so I love a crisp canvas to work on, I love you telling others to fuck off
If resin works for you, stick with it. But .06mm layer height is 60 microns which, last time I checked, is about the same as Resin printers. Fdm is great for people that can't do a resin setup.
@@davidcheek8892most basic resin printers go down to around 0.02mm, plus there is their PPI is pretty high nowadays, also there is antialiasing and other nice things. Don’t get me wrong, I love my fdm printers but I still rather do minis with resin, especially if I want to paint them. Also according to his previous video, resin printers are around 4 times faster than his 0.2mm nozzle high quality setting, for lower layer height, not counting you can print multiple models without increasing the time. Just my 2 cents, he prints and paints better than me, but this vid didn’t change my opinion.
@@davidcheek8892 I have an Anycubic Photon Mono 2k and print at 0.025mm, but I mostly paint for competitions. However, this printer is absolutely awesome for people that want A LOT of minis because overall it's going to be way faster with less mess!
You could always scale up. You can get some super fine detail still it just cant be on a tiny model. Plus could be nice as age catches up to paint larger models 😜
For me I just like painting. I enjoy spending 20ish hours on a single mini (including building and gap filling) then taking photos of it. I used to play TT Warhammer but now I just like painting it. For me the super fine details is what I like the most so resin is currently the only print option. That said i'd be more than happy if an FDM could get to resin quality cause it's awful to work with.
I have two small kids, and although I have big enough house I haven’t and would not want to get a resin printer. I just dont want to expose my kids to potential danger of it. This is godsend and I hope quality will keep improving. Im more than happy to trade a bit of quality to health. This is worth my time and I can teach my kids to use as well. Thanks for the review.
I love your painting process. Mainly how messy it is. Sounds like something bad but actually showed me how much time and energy I spend trying to make things look good from the get go instead of trusting the process and waiting for the end to enjoy the final result.
I really WANT FDM quality to improve as much as it has, I have developed liver disease and simply cannot work with resin anymore, so FDM is the only way I can continue to print at home! Nice work!
FDM is more than good enough, if youre in doubt just sand and add details with a rotary tool, or print the details seperatly and glue it on. also FDM printers can be upgraded if you got an old ender one, like i do. that doubles the resolution of it.
I would recommend you still check air quality and have some air filtration going on in your printing room. Because melting plastic still releases VOCs and stuff. Even the healthy ones like pure PLA. It's nothing as obviously problematic as ABS or resins, but it's an understudied problem that is dismissed too easily for people who might be at risk.
Fume hoods are simple boxes with hinged panels clear or otherwise and appropriate forced exhaust of your choice so if you want protection I suggest building one to your preferences or perhaps modifying a used sand blast cabinet which would reduce fab time. I do not print anything inside my home but some have no other options. If you would like a light, durable cart that won't do rude things to your woodwork there are many polypropylene carts online. The Harbor Freight carts are good enough to for mechanic (I am one) abuse. Their base is a handy place to store anything which fits. I use various clear plastic bins to store small parts. The top could either hold or be used as the bottom of a fume hood and you can easily drill it to attach whatever you like.
Thank you, thank you, thank you! I'm a designer who specializes in fdm printable minis and as such paints a lot of them. Everything you say is SPOT-ON.
@StormyWaters2021 I'm pretty small time, so I upload stls mostly on Cults3D and occasionally myminifactory as Skellify. As for Trench Crusade though, Brite has a couple supportless sets that can be combined to get knights, pilgrims, and cultists with guns. His style is pretty oldhammer/classic D&D minis though, so I get they may not be everyone's cup of tea. I haven't messed around with any knucklebones stuff yet, but something about his sculpting makes me feel like they would turn out pretty decent with some supports in FDM - few overhangs, chunkier proportions. Same goes for Vae Victis who dont have models for Trench Crusade yet, but I saw on their Patreon/Tribes that they had been messing around with some potential designs!
thank you so much for making this video. Just bought a FDM printer as my first 3D printer and I'm also into model painting. When my friend told me FDMs were shit for miniatures I got kinda bummed but this vid completely restored my excitement. im totally hyped to be able to print and paint minis without burning a hole in my pocket.
You hit a great point in that FDM is a low barrier of entry for people to get started. I got started in 3D printing minis with an Ender3 years ago. I still have some of those minis. They are certainly serviceable for tabletop games. And certainly a lot less mess than resin printing.
Applying speed paint directly from the dropper bottle directly on to the mini??!! No two thin coats?! Speed paints! Gasp! Pearl clutching! Horror! Bad man paint wrong bad. /s Keep up the awesome work, I love the videos, screw the haters. The models and and paint jobs look great! As far as super glue, for anyone following along and reading RUclips comments my biggest tip is to use baking soda as an accelerant. I'd rather do that rather than soldering, but that's just me.
@@grosslittlegoblin1358 It's not your average FDM printed mini. Many people will never be able to paint to a ridiculous standard, but I don't think many people would have trouble playing against an army of those with that paint job, it was rapid and came out looking well. Done has a quality of it's own.
This is what I’ve always been doing. When I design models, I design them with FDM printing in mind. I’ve printed many tanks, and painted them, and honestly, they look really good. I would recommend using FDM to print large vehicles.
That was the first time I've seen someone paint a model so rough and loose and I love it. They look really great and are play ready without weeks (on my time schedule) of being meticulous with each model, but nothing is stopping you if you want to be either. It probably helps that you don't have to idolize every model because it's just a day print away and less cost if you need another one. With an initial investment of 2 battle patrols, I'm setting a budget for the mini, ty.
I feel like social media, especially RUclips, has eroded the concept of “good enough” in many people’s minds. Yes, resin printers can generally print fine detail on miniatures better than FDM, but the degree of difference is small enough to not matter to the vast majority of people.
Eh the problem is your good enough and my good enough can differ vastly. The real issue is those that want to force you to think like they do. Willing to bet for the vast majority of them blue is their favorite color. I believe we should be able to express our opinions freely without worry of our throats being cut if you step outta line.
my bar is no lines even on resin. its fine if people dont mind the lines, but for me thats a big eye sore. lines can be dealt with by sanding and fill primers but then you are redoing details and at some point i'd rather just hand craft everything.
Except that most people who do care about the difference are the people trying to print minis and paint them, not the general public. You want them smooth and detailed.
@@cbjewelz When I said "the vast majority of people," I meant "the vast majority of people interested in printing minis." Obviously the general public of people not participating in the activity aren't going to care about the quality of the outcome. My point is that FDM printed minis can be "smooth and detailed" enough for most people
I hate lead, I hate pewter... but everytime the light so much as THINKS of hitting that model I can see insanely horrible layer lines. And he's not even dry brushing? He's... basecoating with a drybrush. If you actually drybrushed this model you would see those circles and lines all over it.
@@ErgonomicChair THIS. FDM isnt for me, I have to look at the layer lines for hours painting the mini. Even with resin printing, all I do is fight the layer lines/ aliasing. I do sand them, I do use putty to get rid of the little steps. After painting weathering, they are just good enough for me with resin. FDM would need another 5 years, I guess.
@@echtvergoldet Yeah even resin I need to polish things up too. If a person likes their FDM minis and loves painting them, that's really cool. But I think that we should give the caveat "these will have very obvious layer lines" so no one gets their hopes up and then crashed.
im really glad to see it get more accessible. There will always be people who think that since other people have it different/easier/harder it diminishes their own effor and that is just untrue. Im happy to see any type of painted mini on the table!!!
I really appreciated this video. My wife and I have been thinking about getting a 3d printer I could see myself printing a lot of terrain for a rpg and maybe a few models, but not enough models to justify buying a resin printer, not to mention the fact that I have 3 kids and a dog and my son (under 2yrs old) loves to come to where we would print and touch everything. Knowing that we can print mini's on a FDM printer (we were looking at the p1s or x1 since they are enclosed) is a big help. Also the rant was hilarious I'm sure I'll watch more of your videos to get better at painting.
Nice paint job there man. I started with resin printing, and i got to be honest, I thought your FDM prints were bound to look poo, but they looked really decent! FDM printing requires much less faffing about - i love it
You can get great results printing minis on an FDM. You just have to use print settings and models appropriate for the job. Use a properly set up FDM with a 0.20 nozzle and 0.05 mm layer height and the layer lines all but disappear. And it only gets better with paint. Edit: and I wrote this comment before watching very far into the video…lol…he shows just how good they can look
Thanks for sharing the last two videos, as someone who has wanted to potentially get into 3d printing, I am glad learning there are some new tools to use. And awesome paint job
I'm not a tabletop wargaming person, but I've come to absolutely love seeing art being made; people painting minis is people making art, which is why I come to videos like this. Bravo for choosing to FDM print minis and prove that they're good enough to be painted.
The quality has come leaps and bounds in the last 5 years for FDM, Were you can now reasonably have good looking infantry with very little faff. On a side note relating to safety it is best to be aware that if you are using a FDM machine, Try to only use PLA plastics if you are going to have them in a living space as ABS plastics when melted can be a harmful when breathed in and other more "exotic" filament's such as carbon reinforced can leave microscopic fibres suspended in the air or imbedded in your skin if worked on.
@@Vizeroy9 The fuck you on about, no lol. People that sell 3d prints make bank, they obviously ask maybe half or a quarter of what GW wants but its still a lot and you need a LOT of models for a full 40k army nowadays.
@@SilimSavertin I know... but I also know what it costs to get a model from a good artist. Depending on the artist, you either pay $15 for a squad... or $6 - $10 for a single model. Vehicles are $12+ (walkers can be a bit cheaper, or quite a bit more expensive). I'm rather often on myminifactory. To sell prints, many artists have monthly fees - e.g. a license from dakkadakka store is $70 a month. Many others don't offer licenses and either print themselves, or are personal use only. I myself have several licenses for fantasy / horror models. When I would sell a model without making any profit, I'd have to ask for about $8 for a hero scale model with base. I can go a bit lower, if the order fills a complete build plate. But that's a bit rare. Printing itself isn't that expensive. The consumables just add up. IPA is still the most cost effective way to clean. Gloves, towels... a certain percentage to cover print fails (about 10%)... a fraction of respirator filter cost, a fraction of printer wear and tear, energy (especially outside the US), fraction of packaging material (postage prices usually just include the stamp cost for small businesses)... a fraction of insurance costs... oh yeah... and a virtual salary, dependent on time spent with cleaning and curing. There are certainly some things I forgot...
Bro had to make a point XD I agree with you 100%. My Saturn 2 is a pain in the nuts... The weather here in germany sucks ass this year and the room temparature is most of the time below 20°C. The fumes suck, the failing prints suck, the IPA sucks, keeping my room clean sucks, breaking minis sucks and getting into the flow was way harder than I expected. Even when I really did a lot of research before I bought that thing. Handling Resin is no fun at all. In the near time I´m getting a BambuLab A1 and hope that all these frustrations will be gone. If having less detail is the price for that I´m fine with that. My health is more worth than every damn detail on a little mini.
I had similar issues regarding the temp for resin (Luxembourg), I bought a little heater to put inside the chamber... I have had no issues since, it was worth every penny (70EUR). Going to a Bambu you will find it good, but it is still not perfect. I absolutely hated FDM printing with my last one (Anycubic Vyper) coming from resin, but the Bambu has taken away the part where I am fighting with the machine at least. It has made it a much more pleasant experience, but the lessons learned there have been useful with the Bambu also. Your next fight will be with filament humidity, drafts, etc. Don't expect it to be all plain sailing, but it is good.
@NostokAgain I appreciate your warning. Thx a lot. I will buy a heater and I will change my FEP as well. I know with a new machine there will be new problems but surely less pain
@@CrestOfArtorias Wahrscheinlich muss ich die FEP-Folie wechseln. Anfangs gab es kaum Probleme. Hier in NRW komme ich trotzdem fast nie über 20°C Raumtemperatur
I love how you squeeze the paint all over the mini, the pallet and everywhere just to make people mad. Genius. I had so much laugh at fist-squeezing the bottles. Comedy gold.
I saw someone do death korps on an FDM about a year ago and they looked really good. Now if you picked them up and looked really close you could tell they were printed on an FDM, but from arms length/table length they looked excellent and see the little details on these minis I don't doubt the A1 would do great on "human" scale.
That's a much higher quality than what I've been told to expect from FDM printers, GG. I own a resin printer already, and I've been considering getting an FDM one for a while, mostly for terrain etc, but I can see how printing half an army in FDM (particularly the bigger and hence more expensive models) might be a very good idea... I'll have to think about it a bit more, but I'm even more inclined to now.
That’s what simply changing the nozzle size can do for you. A lot of people just keep the default 0.4mm nozzle on the printer and never bother to change it. Going down to a 0.2 will get you much better quality but take a lot longer, going up to a 0.6 will result in slightly lower quality but faster print times.
Fdm makes fumes, yes, but It's not quite like that, the amount of fumes generated by the resin is greater, and depends on the material, ABS we have cyanide, PLA, only carbon dioxide, in a ridiculously small amount.Now Resin already smells bad, it is liquid and sticky, the parts take much longer to get rid of the smell, the quality is impeccable but it is 100% more toxic than FDM
@@BarokaiRein yes but there's a few things to take into consideration: 1 - FDM generally will produce less fumes than SLA. 2 - The fumes are very dependent on what material you use. e.g. ABS will definitely generate more fumes than PLA. 3 - FMD printers tend to be easier to ventilate. 4 - Once again it depends on the material but most FMD filament are completely fine to touch with vare hands without any post processing. I think it's fair to say that compared to SLA, FDM can be basically considered non toxic
Unless you're printing on a commercial scale there's really nothing to worry about. Don't drink the resin, don't bathe in it and you'll be fine. Some of yall are some serious nervous Nelson's.
They look great. I'd rather see these on the table than an official but unpainted army, and I'd definitely rather see an army of these than see someone priced out of the hobby.
I've printed minis that were completely indistinguishable from a injection molded on at more than foot away, on an Ender 3. The only things that really matter on the STL, the nozzle, and the filament. You really want to be using either a 0.2mm or a 0.15mm. You need good quality PLA/PLA+ to get it to flow reliably through such a small nozzle. You also need to actually TUNE YOUR PRINTER. So few people realize this is a thing, but especially tuning your E-steps. It will have a huge impact when printing fine details. Lastly, the STL. You simply can't expect to print details smaller than your nozzle. Choose STLs will a level of detail that makes sense for your printer and nozzle combo. Flowing cloaks and tabards are a huge advantage as they add nice smooth, wavy, cloth over a lot of hard to print details. If you need a thousand greebles on such a small mini, you probably just need to learn how to paint better. If you're looking for minis to take to a painting contest where they'll be judged from 2 inches away, FDM is not the play, but otherwise it can work just fine for minis with the right filament, nozzle, and tuning. FDM is also great from printing large terrain pieces. Print in ABS for terrain if possible. It's more annoying to print with, but it's more durable, and you can cut, sand, and modify it easier. NOTE: I have multiple FDM and resin printers (including DLP printers), and I do macro photography for fun. I'm well aware of the quality differences between different printer types, and can confidently say that good, table top quality minis can be achieved on an FDM printer.
Thank you for being brave and speaking your mind against all the haters. And thank you for doing so with the most positive and encouraging attitude. Just being a dude who loves what he does. Great paint jobs on the minis!
Your last 2 videos are exactly what I've been looking for as someone just looking to get into printing/painting miniatures, please keep up the good work! PS. I'd be interested to see the kind of results you could get by post processing these, not sure whether that's just sanding some of the more obvious layer lines but I think it'd make a great video as someone who is willing to put in a bit of time in exchange for not having to mess with toxic resin!
Have been resin 3d-printing an army myself, and thougt for a time that fdm wasnt detailed enough for minis. Great to see how good your minis came out! Fdm seems really great too
Amazing paintwork on the FDM minis!! Wow. Great job. Always enjoy getting notified of new video posts. They are all gold!! Sense of humor is brilliant as well. :D Keep em coming. I'm a Patreon sub btw
Started with an FDM printer for these exact reasons. I've gotten so much joy out of my Ender3 over the years, and I can't recommend picking up an FDM as your first printer. Only recently did I move into a house with a garage, thus enabling me to explore resin printing. While resin does indeed blow the fidelity of FDM out of the water, I was consistently surprised by how good a result I could get on the simpler, cheaper machine, especially with the rare supportless STL, FDM minis can actually look come out quite nicely.
In the past, I tried FDM for character prints. I was able to dial them in and get good results ... but ONLY on the parts where tree supports didn't destroy the detail. However, with the new FDM printers, I really like the idea of doing the monsters with FDM (since they get used and abused) and using my resin printers for the detailed prints and hero figurines.
Reminds me of how I always preferred to do "weathered" and "battle damaged" scale models because you can always write off mistakes, dings, nicks, and paint chips as part of the damage.
So now we have an AMS, we're looking forward to trying out dissolvable supports @@torq21, it may take even longer to print, but we're hoping that it can help restore some of that detail. Plus, our test model has quite thin legs, so the biggest risk is breaking one when removing the support.
SLA has layerlines , but they are much more slight, especially considering time, SLA can print like 12+ of those marines while FDM prints just one in worse quality
Those were larger models than standard minis so if you have a standard human scale or smaller the results will show more. But play with what you want, you could just print out images on paper and glue them to cardboard if everyone is down with that
Love this! Close up macro shots and marketing influencers have pushed detail and perfectionism to the limits, screw gatekeeping! Print or build, paint and play!
I'm not a fan of the sculpts, but the result is undeniable I think. Gatekeeping will always be a thing in this hobby, and that's a shame, but keep doing what you're doing!
I'm currently painting up a Cacodemon I FDM printed. I primed it first with a slightly thicker layer than normal, but other than that, I've had no real issues with it, the paint goes on well, and while, yes, it you look closely there is still layering visible in a couple of places that paint covers most of it and, for the savings involved, it's worth that very slight drop in quality.
@@doggollamaman "extractor fans" - never had one in 6 years "respirators" - have 1 for 6 years "curing stations" - curing station aka bucket and UV nail lamp for 10$ (works for 3 years straight) "washing" - got 5l of IPA for 30$ it's enough for 1-2 years printing a lot so...where are your insane spendings?
You just convinced me that I can start this hobby easily and quickly. After watching this, I will print up a fire team using FDM, paint them up, and let that be my practice for my first time painting. I will decide whether or not to stick with FDM or switch to Resin after that. Thank you!
Okay, so it might be exaggerated in this video, but go and check out artists opus, you really should not be having a dry drybrush, it is why it ends up looking chalky.
I don't want my minis to be FDM printed. I don't care what anyone else does. I've played games against people using pictures on carboard stuck to bases. Who cares.
I absolutely LOVE printing miniatures of FDM. That said, one thing people should be aware of is that, even with incredibly small layer lines, painting on FDM *will* wear out your brushes a bit faster than on plastic or resin. Which makes sense, because even if the layers are imperceptible to the naked eye, they’re still there and brushing along that surface is like brushing along a very fine grater. So for everyone interested in this hobby, be prepared to buy new brushes about 20% sooner than you would with resin or plastic.
I'm a resin printing nutter and I'm really happy and impressed by how great FDM has become. Given material types, the better FDM gets, not that it isn't killer already, gives the promise of really durable models
As somebody who has been printing for over a decade now, with the right tool, you can make fantastic GW models. I tested it with some of my friends and acquaintances and showed them a batch of 5 minis and asked them if they could spot which one was the 3D printed one. A friend of mine made the "non-sellable nor distributable" stl and I printed 4 of them. In the first test I painted each of them in the same scheme alongside 1 official one. Only 1 person was able to visually tell the difference. Everyone else just guessed 1 model apiece not realizing 4 of them were fake and only 1 real. 2 people in specific actually guessed the official one was the fake one. Once they had it in their hands, there were a few more who were able to tell the difference, but even weight can be difficult to discern because I gave each one of the minis the same GW base, but also rocks, basing, and a magnet tacked on underneath, so all of them weighed differently. I then repeated the same test but 4 official and 1 fake. I was transparent this time, and 2 people were able to guess which one it was, but essentially, I fooled 15 people and I took that as a win. The only one able to spot the difference is a battle hardened store employee, a veteran 40k player of nearly 30 years... At least I got him on the first test (he only guessed 2 were fake) This test was done with an Ender 3 V3 SE, and a Mars 2 Pro, far from the "best" printers you can find today even within their own price range (as newer printers have released within their own brands) With the right settings, with the right model, 3D printing has come along enough to where you can print official looking models (unethically) for dirt cheap. The haters can hate, they're just blind to the reality. \o/
Please please continue FDM content!! Ignore the haters would love more about any special settings or speeds you use. I am getting a smaller nozzle soon so hopefully i can have a bit better results as well.
So glad I have found this channel. I live in an apartment and do not have the room for a resin printer or the necessary parts that go with it. an FDM printer would be perfect for me and is plenty fine quality for what I want! Keep up the great work.
It's not that I don't want to see minis printed in FDM, it's just that as someone who's in the hobby mainly to paint models, the results are just not clean enough for me. So until FDM printers match resin printers when printing models below 30um, they're just not for me. I want to see that eventually happen, but I'm fine with waiting for like 10 years until it does happen. Also, the negativity is partially due to your clickbaity thumbnails. ''Who needs resin'' is going to get several answers along the lines of ''I do, because that's not good enough quality for me.'' said in several different degrees of tact.
Dude, I play Mordheim with a guy that uses paper proxies! Sure the game pictures aren’t “immersive” but I get to play a fun game with friends. Incant believe FDM printers are looking this good!
They are very good 3D prints for FDM and there's no reason you can't enjoy them, but resin is better quality. There's a reason you aren't doing an extreme zoom-in.
They do really look way better than I expected. I had no issue with the FDM prints as seen in the last vid, but seeing you handle the colours I got scared for the outcome. You did well mate! Thanks for the content.
This is great. I have a FDM printer only and I make miniatures. Creating great looking minis with limited lines is a hobby by itself. These look amazing.
From the spider crawling around your paint station to slathering the mini in red speed paint before painting it on, you're the most Australian person known to man. Also as a speed paint lover, it's great to see these FDM prints colored with it because I always assumed layer lines would ruin it.
I FDM printed some figures and painted two out of the four I printed and then decided to come to RUclips and see what other people were doing and immediately got down on myself because another creator said “garbage in garbage out” in reference to painting on an FDM for figurines and I then started looking super close at all my layer lines and got ashamed. Thanks for the reminder that the fun I had printing the first two is more important than the layer lines.
CAUTION: Bambulab have taken some troubling steps toward locking down their hardware. As it currently stands the A1 and A1 mini are unaffected, and still remain my #1 recommendation for the tabletop hobby. However, anti-consumer bullshit is still anti-consumer bullshit, so please take this development into consideration if you're thinking about buying one of these printers.
Welp, I guess that does simplify what 3D printer I should buy and which one to never touch.
I just order a p1s. Best printer for the $ imo. I'm not worried about the political side of the hardware stuff. I just want to print. It'll all sort itself out. To each their own. Cheers.
You'd think people would be excited that FDM printers are improving so much. But people are weird.
Dude same thing happened with resin printers "it sucks" "they look bad" "look at the layers".... 12k resolution later no one is complaining anymore lol
In that same sentiment resin printers are getting WAY better and cheaper. For a hundred bucks or more you can get 3x the details. FDM has its place but if you enjoy details, resin is still king.
@@stephenshields4095 oh shut up
@@stephenshields4095 i can put my 3d printer on my balcony and make it print things with 0 commitment, prep time and little to no cleaning of the results and with almost as much of detail.
That worth more than a 100 bucks for me. The only thing my FDM printer can't do is ideal epic scale miniatures. Resin is the king here.
@@tartatovsky He is not wrong. Resin is a king of details. If your goal is to paint miniatures just for the game. Most stuff will do. But if you are doing it for the art and as a collecting hobby. You want everything to be perfect. Because you will look at them up close a lot.
As someone who makes and sells STLs, the more printers that can print minis the better. haha
What name is your .stls under. I'll look you up and see whatcha got.
Facts
Send a link to your STLs.
That's the spirit
Do you design your minis to be fdm printed and advertise that? I find a number of them really aren't. The main issue is usually lacking a flat surface to touch the build plate, or deep, narrow "valleys" that need to be filled with supports but then you can't really get the supports out.
It's amazing how the 3D printing community somehow doesn't realize that many of us live in apartments and don't have facilities for resin storage and printing
Just buy the printed models from someone with a printer... that saves even more space in your flat
That or have compromise immune systems, have respiratory issue's or live with someone that does.
Finally maybe it's just you have children of well any age where resin in particular presents a very real danger.
Adults can make informed decisions they can drink as much poison as they want, smoke, spray paint their miniatures without masks and clean their ovens with hazardous chemicals etc all day long of they want but it's objectively BAD and morally CORRUPT to say children should be doing the same or exposed in the same manner.
Best argument against resin.
I was able to seal my FDM printer well enough to not have any fumes escape it, but i cant justify achieving the same for resin and i really dont want toxic resin in my living room.
Not everyone lives with their parents and can use their garage.
@@marschma if you have an opening window and live in a place that you can buy a drier vent its not too bad, most modern resins are low/no VOC, and water washable (doesnt mean safe to put down the drain, people washing that stuff into the sink makes me feel sick, its water washable, not safe in the water supply).
@HerbaceousM8 still gotta think about pricing. An a1 mini is $200-250. What is a half decent resin set up going to cost me ? $500 for the machine, wash, cure station ? Then what about pricing of materials ? A roll of filament is $15-30.
I'm fortunate enough to work in the field of 3D printing. This isn't a plug or a flex-just some real-world interactions with curious newcomers to 3D printing. This is a somewhat lengthy tale to support the remarks you made on your last video. I start by discussing resin and FMD printers, the differences between them, PPE requirements, and safety considerations. Is there room for post-processing there? You have to warn them about the large fireball in the sky that is spewing UV rays when they answer, "Yeah, I'll do it outside."
Do they live in an apartment? Do they have kids have fish, birds, or small pets? Are they aware of the extra costs? I also ask them if they are lazy. Most people don't put on gloves and go touch their faces and walk outside, or they don't wash out or cure the print correctly, then 2 weeks later it cracks or leaks out resin. I had a few people come in looking for LCD screens because they did not clean the bed and smash a new screen on second print. This kind of stuff happens a lot more than people who print every day think, still like this is easy to us because we already have the knowledge. With FDM, you get the printer and a spool of plastic. Tell people not to print with ABS or ASA as it gives off strine gas other than that PLA PETG TPU. Its happy days start printing. Want more detail? Get a 0.2 nozzle.
resin printing, you need the printer. Resin, gloves, glasses, respirator, iso or resinaway, cure station. It adds up to a lot of $$$$$ just to get started. then in the future they will need fep and maybe a screen, so this needs to be taken into account. If they are still interested in resin, most would have bailed out by now. I take them into the shop and let them see how it's all done. After seeing the postprocessing and smelling the resin, most people think it's way too much work. Now we dont sell any printers, so I dont need to push products because we just sell printer consumables. I tell people if they want to know what resin printer to buy, come to your channel and watch your reviews and watch a few other reviews and don't believe all the marketing BS. Be educated and choose the best printer for your needs and budget. There is no doubt resin prints can be sexy and crisp, but it takes a lot more of my time in postprocessing and ongoing consumables. where FDM 0.2 nozzle and low layer height you can get 80-90% to resin is without the mess. Far out, sorry for the long comment, but you did ask for one
Come on man enough with the doom and gloom resin printer stuff. It's really old, fake and tired. Oh no you need to buy a printer and the material to make it work! Exactly like you do for an FDM printer as well. Oh no you need rubber gloves, a mask and some safety glasses all of which can be bought for a grand total of about $10 that's if you haven't got a bunch laying around from the past three years. Get water washable resin, a Chinese food container, $6 Metho and a bucket, no need for a full on station and expensive gear.
Not to mention burning your house down. Also people misuse a thing and it breaks, you know like literally everything ever sold anywhere to anyone. People buy cars and destroy them with the wrong fuel, still see plenty of cars being sold every day.
@@AnotherHistorianWargamer Why, if it isn't Mr. Sunk Cost Fallacy? Oh, sorry. I meant to say Captain Gatekeep.
@@helgehansen4458 what if what isn't? I'm the one trying to open up 3d printing, this guy is trying to turn people away from it. I think people are smart enough to figure it out
@@AA-fi5nj I was talking about the video not the OP
I live in an apartment. I have children. I considered resin printing and after watching many videos I ordered a A1 mini. As much as I would love the extra fine details, 2 feet away on a table top and my shitty paint job is probably fine.
Last session i used lego figures.
Yeah, for resin you absolutely need a special place, far away from any kids.
As someone who is in a similar situation, I can tell you that you will be happy with the results that you can get with an FDM printer. Far better than nothing at all! I think I'm switching to the mini soon for its seemingly superior plug and play features.
@@torq21 If you can go bamboo do so, I switched from a Anycubic Vyper and it just wee wees all over it.
@@NostokAgain Is it as plug and play as these videos make it out to be? I'm just so burnt out on trying to get print settings dialed in for every little print I do.
yeah i used to live with animals and its a constant thing of trying to keep track of where they are and what they have access to so they dont get toxic chemicals on their paws or in their fur
when the sword broke mid-brushstroke i was like “yup, been there”
Right?!😂 I love having brandished weapons and dynamically posed minis but they’re so fragile 😅
I switched from plain PLA to PLA+ or PLA Pro and they are much stronger!
yes me too - and with official GWminis even.
If it was printed with the Bambu matte blue from the first video about fdm minis, which it looks like it might be, im not surprised at all. While parts like that are fragile as is Im currently using a spool of Bambu's matte blue right now and hate it. It seems more brittle than their other types ive used.
my Kaldor Draigo model's sword broke, and we never found the blade. so we just kit bashed a Strike Squad sword onto it.
I appreciate how much emphasis you put on resin printing SAFELY
So many people I know just raw-dog a resin printer in their kitchen or something and I'm just like... dude I spent more on the paper towels, gloves, respirators, etc. than the printer itself (cheapo on sale but still)
Yeah I've literally gone through thousands of gloves the past couple years.
No offense but, $10 120mm fan and a window is generally enough for a fumehood.
@@dragonproductions236and what about the rubbing alcohol? what about the gloves? what about the resin that spills? a fumehood is not all you need
@@karldoesstuffYT But those costs are mitigated by skill, and are far less. You are comparing the costs of a multi thousand dollar fume hood setup to a 2 dollar bottle of rubbing alcohol you buy every 2 weeks and a 10 dollar box of gloves you do the same with. Disingenuous and malicious. Leave.
@@dragonproductions236 If you don't care about everyone in your house getting cancer, sure.
Best advice I got from a friend was while I was fussing about painting someting and he just said "It looks really detailed already, you're looking at them from like 3 feet away"
Thanks for this video, I've been watching it while I paint my Necrons
Resin printer guy here. Zero hate, that's some damn cool minis you printed there, keep rocking 👍
you have the most chaotic painting style lmao. The speedpaint directly on the model gave me a conniption in the best way possible! Also, i forgot that these were FDM minis be the time you got the basecoats on.
Should you submit an FDM printed mini to a painting competition? hell no. but at tabletop distance, the paint makes the layer lines disappear.
It's nice the one guy has a bib so he can eat a big plate of ribs without taking his armor off 👍
If I've learned anything from W40k memes its that they can reach up through the collar of their armor, and that probably makes eating a lot easier too.
Also fwiw if you FDM print an army and paint it - it will always look better than unpainted GW plastic that 70% of people play with.😮
So strongly agree. But this Is an issue with all games
Or shoeboxes. Yes, this is totally a Land Raider, don't worry about it.
@@clanpsi i dont have issues with that. I even started to play using bottle caps to represent my troops. If someone comes and says to me "i want to try this Unit, but I dont have the model, may i use this instead?", i would say yes.
But if you invested on the models, at least you can take the effort to make them look better.
Truuuuuuuu
boom gottem
As an avid resin printer, FDM enthusiast and painter that sells my creations, I can say that to me, these looks good enough! I do not have a single problem with FDM minis in super high quality. (aside from maybe being a little too prone to breaking - as you demonstrated). Keep up the great work!
3:46 the freaking spider under the thinning plate, Jesus Christ I respect Australians for living with it
Caught me by surprise when I saw it!
It's not a spider, it's some wool or other thin material. You can see more of it above
Really high detail Tyranid mini.
Look, if anyone enjoys this hobby differently than I do, they’re wrong; whether or not they know all my preferences ahead of time. It’s also necessary for me to be excessively and publicly critical of anyone doing it wrong, which as previously stated, is anything that deviates from my way.
And that is without getting into the whole 'what colour lenses should my tactical squad have?' I mean, come on people, stick to the pure GW canon - even if it changes with each edition :)
I laughed when you basically squirted the mini. I feel like you were going out of the way to show the complainers more things that will grind their gears. I just can't imagine you doing that normally.
between that and smearing speed paint all over a wet palette, he was obviously doing a bit of trolling, lol.
The reason he's doing it is trying to desperately fillt he layer lines... they look terrible.
@@ErgonomicChair yeah but the one with higher resolution it was ok, not perfect yeah, but god damn it was better than i've seen with a 3D printer like that
@@BI0PARC0 I mthink its perfectly fine to like this quality but event hat "best" nozzle was horrible. It slightly hit the lines on the shoulders as they were not smooth, but looks t the top? Every time the light semi catches it, it looks like you cut a tree open with all those rings. Alos a lot f crunch of the edges etc.
Not kidding when I am saying that lead models from the 70s looked better than these... if you want them, that's fine? But people coping and trying to say they are better than Resin or GW plastic? These people are gonna mislead new people to the hobby into negative expectations and disappointment.
@@ErgonomicChair no one says they are better. they are easier and cheaper.
whilst the quailty of the FDM models isnt for me because I come at the hobby from the painting side so I love a crisp canvas to work on, I love you telling others to fuck off
If resin works for you, stick with it. But .06mm layer height is 60 microns which, last time I checked, is about the same as Resin printers.
Fdm is great for people that can't do a resin setup.
@@davidcheek8892most basic resin printers go down to around 0.02mm, plus there is their PPI is pretty high nowadays, also there is antialiasing and other nice things. Don’t get me wrong, I love my fdm printers but I still rather do minis with resin, especially if I want to paint them.
Also according to his previous video, resin printers are around 4 times faster than his 0.2mm nozzle high quality setting, for lower layer height, not counting you can print multiple models without increasing the time. Just my 2 cents, he prints and paints better than me, but this vid didn’t change my opinion.
@@davidcheek8892 I have an Anycubic Photon Mono 2k and print at 0.025mm, but I mostly paint for competitions. However, this printer is absolutely awesome for people that want A LOT of minis because overall it's going to be way faster with less mess!
You could always scale up. You can get some super fine detail still it just cant be on a tiny model. Plus could be nice as age catches up to paint larger models 😜
For me I just like painting. I enjoy spending 20ish hours on a single mini (including building and gap filling) then taking photos of it. I used to play TT Warhammer but now I just like painting it.
For me the super fine details is what I like the most so resin is currently the only print option.
That said i'd be more than happy if an FDM could get to resin quality cause it's awful to work with.
I have two small kids, and although I have big enough house I haven’t and would not want to get a resin printer. I just dont want to expose my kids to potential danger of it. This is godsend and I hope quality will keep improving. Im more than happy to trade a bit of quality to health. This is worth my time and I can teach my kids to use as well. Thanks for the review.
I love your painting process. Mainly how messy it is. Sounds like something bad but actually showed me how much time and energy I spend trying to make things look good from the get go instead of trusting the process and waiting for the end to enjoy the final result.
Could not agree more with everything you said.
I really WANT FDM quality to improve as much as it has, I have developed liver disease and simply cannot work with resin anymore, so FDM is the only way I can continue to print at home! Nice work!
FDM is more than good enough, if youre in doubt just sand and add details with a rotary tool, or print the details seperatly and glue it on. also FDM printers can be upgraded if you got an old ender one, like i do. that doubles the resolution of it.
I would recommend you still check air quality and have some air filtration going on in your printing room. Because melting plastic still releases VOCs and stuff. Even the healthy ones like pure PLA. It's nothing as obviously problematic as ABS or resins, but it's an understudied problem that is dismissed too easily for people who might be at risk.
Fume hoods are simple boxes with hinged panels clear or otherwise and appropriate forced exhaust of your choice so if you want protection I suggest building one to your preferences or perhaps modifying a used sand blast cabinet which would reduce fab time. I do not print anything inside my home but some have no other options. If you would like a light, durable cart that won't do rude things to your woodwork there are many polypropylene carts online. The Harbor Freight carts are good enough to for mechanic (I am one) abuse. Their base is a handy place to store anything which fits. I use various clear plastic bins to store small parts. The top could either hold or be used as the bottom of a fume hood and you can easily drill it to attach whatever you like.
Spraying speedpaint directly onto the minis was a baller move
I only use speedpaint in my airbrush. It cleans up easier than airbrush paint and gives a nice coverage if you don’t flood the model.
I screamed in horror.
As someone who took stick in the last comment thread for agreeing with your premise, THANK YOU for making this follow up! Those do look amazing :)
Thank you, thank you, thank you! I'm a designer who specializes in fdm printable minis and as such paints a lot of them. Everything you say is SPOT-ON.
Do you have a site or anything? I'm getting in to Trench Crusade and have an FDM printer, looking for models!
@StormyWaters2021 I'm pretty small time, so I upload stls mostly on Cults3D and occasionally myminifactory as Skellify.
As for Trench Crusade though, Brite has a couple supportless sets that can be combined to get knights, pilgrims, and cultists with guns. His style is pretty oldhammer/classic D&D minis though, so I get they may not be everyone's cup of tea.
I haven't messed around with any knucklebones stuff yet, but something about his sculpting makes me feel like they would turn out pretty decent with some supports in FDM - few overhangs, chunkier proportions.
Same goes for Vae Victis who dont have models for Trench Crusade yet, but I saw on their Patreon/Tribes that they had been messing around with some potential designs!
thank you so much for making this video. Just bought a FDM printer as my first 3D printer and I'm also into model painting. When my friend told me FDMs were shit for miniatures I got kinda bummed but this vid completely restored my excitement. im totally hyped to be able to print and paint minis without burning a hole in my pocket.
You hit a great point in that FDM is a low barrier of entry for people to get started. I got started in 3D printing minis with an Ender3 years ago. I still have some of those minis. They are certainly serviceable for tabletop games. And certainly a lot less mess than resin printing.
My ork army is 60% FDM, the other 40% is toybashed.
You should totally post some pictures to r/FDMminiatures
@@docpepperclassic good idea!
Everything is an Ork if you imagine it hard enough
Applying speed paint directly from the dropper bottle directly on to the mini??!! No two thin coats?! Speed paints! Gasp! Pearl clutching! Horror! Bad man paint wrong bad. /s
Keep up the awesome work, I love the videos, screw the haters. The models and and paint jobs look great!
As far as super glue, for anyone following along and reading RUclips comments my biggest tip is to use baking soda as an accelerant. I'd rather do that rather than soldering, but that's just me.
That actually did make my eyes go wide lol
Ok real talk, I winced a tiny bit when he just blasted his terminator with the speed paint out of the bottle. Result turned out good though.
@@Ryoku1Well it represents well the person who is fine with an FDM printed mini.
@@grosslittlegoblin1358 It's not your average FDM printed mini. Many people will never be able to paint to a ridiculous standard, but I don't think many people would have trouble playing against an army of those with that paint job, it was rapid and came out looking well. Done has a quality of it's own.
I definitely clutched my pearls, but by the end I kinda wanted to try it.
This is what I’ve always been doing. When I design models, I design them with FDM printing in mind. I’ve printed many tanks, and painted them, and honestly, they look really good. I would recommend using FDM to print large vehicles.
That was the first time I've seen someone paint a model so rough and loose and I love it. They look really great and are play ready without weeks (on my time schedule) of being meticulous with each model, but nothing is stopping you if you want to be either. It probably helps that you don't have to idolize every model because it's just a day print away and less cost if you need another one. With an initial investment of 2 battle patrols, I'm setting a budget for the mini, ty.
I feel like social media, especially RUclips, has eroded the concept of “good enough” in many people’s minds. Yes, resin printers can generally print fine detail on miniatures better than FDM, but the degree of difference is small enough to not matter to the vast majority of people.
Eh the problem is your good enough and my good enough can differ vastly.
The real issue is those that want to force you to think like they do. Willing to bet for the vast majority of them blue is their favorite color. I believe we should be able to express our opinions freely without worry of our throats being cut if you step outta line.
my bar is no lines even on resin. its fine if people dont mind the lines, but for me thats a big eye sore. lines can be dealt with by sanding and fill primers but then you are redoing details and at some point i'd rather just hand craft everything.
Except that most people who do care about the difference are the people trying to print minis and paint them, not the general public. You want them smooth and detailed.
@@HerbaceousM8I didnt really see much of any lines in the video…
@@cbjewelz When I said "the vast majority of people," I meant "the vast majority of people interested in printing minis." Obviously the general public of people not participating in the activity aren't going to care about the quality of the outcome. My point is that FDM printed minis can be "smooth and detailed" enough for most people
3:23 I'm sorry did you just pour paint DIRECTLY ON THE MINI?!
What a savage! 🙀
There's a teknik you don't see every day 😅 Maybe the new speed paint teknik that will dethrone slap chop 😂
@@wurgat Slop chop 😅
@@ArnoldQMudskipper splash chop? 😂
GAHDAMN
They still look better than a lot of the hunks of lead around when i was a kid…
I was thinking the samething, I started out with Battletech back in the 90's and those old metal models where bad..lol
Exactly!
Better than plastics pre paints which popped in the naughties and early teens
I hate lead, I hate pewter... but everytime the light so much as THINKS of hitting that model I can see insanely horrible layer lines. And he's not even dry brushing? He's... basecoating with a drybrush. If you actually drybrushed this model you would see those circles and lines all over it.
@@ErgonomicChair THIS. FDM isnt for me, I have to look at the layer lines for hours painting the mini. Even with resin printing, all I do is fight the layer lines/ aliasing. I do sand them, I do use putty to get rid of the little steps. After painting weathering, they are just good enough for me with resin. FDM would need another 5 years, I guess.
@@echtvergoldet Yeah even resin I need to polish things up too. If a person likes their FDM minis and loves painting them, that's really cool. But I think that we should give the caveat "these will have very obvious layer lines" so no one gets their hopes up and then crashed.
im really glad to see it get more accessible. There will always be people who think that since other people have it different/easier/harder it diminishes their own effor and that is just untrue. Im happy to see any type of painted mini on the table!!!
I really appreciated this video. My wife and I have been thinking about getting a 3d printer I could see myself printing a lot of terrain for a rpg and maybe a few models, but not enough models to justify buying a resin printer, not to mention the fact that I have 3 kids and a dog and my son (under 2yrs old) loves to come to where we would print and touch everything. Knowing that we can print mini's on a FDM printer (we were looking at the p1s or x1 since they are enclosed) is a big help. Also the rant was hilarious I'm sure I'll watch more of your videos to get better at painting.
Nice paint job there man. I started with resin printing, and i got to be honest, I thought your FDM prints were bound to look poo, but they looked really decent! FDM printing requires much less faffing about - i love it
Those minis look like first gen resin printing. Also I died when the sword xd
the layers look at least as good as the resin minis I bought from heroforge nearly a decade ago
You can get great results printing minis on an FDM. You just have to use print settings and models appropriate for the job. Use a properly set up FDM with a 0.20 nozzle and 0.05 mm layer height and the layer lines all but disappear. And it only gets better with paint.
Edit: and I wrote this comment before watching very far into the video…lol…he shows just how good they can look
Thanks for sharing the last two videos, as someone who has wanted to potentially get into 3d printing, I am glad learning there are some new tools to use. And awesome paint job
I'm not a tabletop wargaming person, but I've come to absolutely love seeing art being made; people painting minis is people making art, which is why I come to videos like this.
Bravo for choosing to FDM print minis and prove that they're good enough to be painted.
Dont listen to the haters! Those results WERE amazing!
The quality has come leaps and bounds in the last 5 years for FDM, Were you can now reasonably have good looking infantry with very little faff. On a side note relating to safety it is best to be aware that if you are using a FDM machine, Try to only use PLA plastics if you are going to have them in a living space as ABS plastics when melted can be a harmful when breathed in and other more "exotic" filament's such as carbon reinforced can leave microscopic fibres suspended in the air or imbedded in your skin if worked on.
You can even buy 3d printed cheaper than buying a printer for yourself.
For the price of a Bambulabs A1 you can buy a complete Army.
I would also say - all FDM printing is hazardous in an enclosed space - I have an air purifier pumping next to mine which is better than nothing
@@Vizeroy9 The fuck you on about, no lol. People that sell 3d prints make bank, they obviously ask maybe half or a quarter of what GW wants but its still a lot and you need a LOT of models for a full 40k army nowadays.
@@SilimSavertin I know... but I also know what it costs to get a model from a good artist.
Depending on the artist, you either pay $15 for a squad... or $6 - $10 for a single model. Vehicles are $12+ (walkers can be a bit cheaper, or quite a bit more expensive).
I'm rather often on myminifactory.
To sell prints, many artists have monthly fees - e.g. a license from dakkadakka store is $70 a month.
Many others don't offer licenses and either print themselves, or are personal use only.
I myself have several licenses for fantasy / horror models. When I would sell a model without making any profit, I'd have to ask for about $8 for a hero scale model with base.
I can go a bit lower, if the order fills a complete build plate. But that's a bit rare.
Printing itself isn't that expensive. The consumables just add up.
IPA is still the most cost effective way to clean. Gloves, towels... a certain percentage to cover print fails (about 10%)... a fraction of respirator filter cost, a fraction of printer wear and tear, energy (especially outside the US), fraction of packaging material (postage prices usually just include the stamp cost for small businesses)... a fraction of insurance costs... oh yeah... and a virtual salary, dependent on time spent with cleaning and curing.
There are certainly some things I forgot...
@@Vizeroy9 there are free files on cults so if you're not a moron you can go pick out free parts and kitbash your own stls for exactly $0
Bro had to make a point XD
I agree with you 100%. My Saturn 2 is a pain in the nuts... The weather here in germany sucks ass this year and the room temparature is most of the time below 20°C. The fumes suck, the failing prints suck, the IPA sucks, keeping my room clean sucks, breaking minis sucks and getting into the flow was way harder than I expected. Even when I really did a lot of research before I bought that thing. Handling Resin is no fun at all.
In the near time I´m getting a BambuLab A1 and hope that all these frustrations will be gone. If having less detail is the price for that I´m fine with that.
My health is more worth than every damn detail on a little mini.
I had similar issues regarding the temp for resin (Luxembourg), I bought a little heater to put inside the chamber... I have had no issues since, it was worth every penny (70EUR). Going to a Bambu you will find it good, but it is still not perfect. I absolutely hated FDM printing with my last one (Anycubic Vyper) coming from resin, but the Bambu has taken away the part where I am fighting with the machine at least. It has made it a much more pleasant experience, but the lessons learned there have been useful with the Bambu also. Your next fight will be with filament humidity, drafts, etc. Don't expect it to be all plain sailing, but it is good.
@NostokAgain I appreciate your warning. Thx a lot. I will buy a heater and I will change my FEP as well.
I know with a new machine there will be new problems but surely less pain
German here, I have no idea what your issue is. My Saturn 4 prints minis without any issues.
@@CrestOfArtorias Wahrscheinlich muss ich die FEP-Folie wechseln. Anfangs gab es kaum Probleme. Hier in NRW komme ich trotzdem fast nie über 20°C Raumtemperatur
@@Contractkillamax Selbst bei dem Wetter?
I love how you squeeze the paint all over the mini, the pallet and everywhere just to make people mad. Genius. I had so much laugh at fist-squeezing the bottles. Comedy gold.
Because of you, I will return to painting miniatures after 25 years. And I will start with with FDM. Your motivation is great.
i just like them because they’re neat. no joke though, the level of quality is getting really impressive with FDM.
Id love to see smaller scale prints like guard or tau so we can really push the A1 to its limit.
I saw someone do death korps on an FDM about a year ago and they looked really good. Now if you picked them up and looked really close you could tell they were printed on an FDM, but from arms length/table length they looked excellent and see the little details on these minis I don't doubt the A1 would do great on "human" scale.
There’s a few example on r/FDMminiatures. Printed on various different machines, though. So I don’t know how the Bambu would do, precisely.
Painting FDM miniatures is basically the way you hide the layer lines. Also, FDM is really good for vehicles.
FDM for vehicles is the hill I will die on. Even if it is a centerpiece model, if it's a vehicle, then it should be FDM.
Nah lol, painting them never hides the lines. But whatever, different strokes
@@dusting2706 Painting + sanding a small layer of paint = Relatively hidden lines.
@@TheUndeadslayer221Don't tell them about using superdiluted fine wood filler and a sandblaster
@@dusting2706 You're just wrong, chuddy
I'm glad to hear that I can get good enough results with a more general purpose printer. Thanks for the honesty!
But not everyone is interessted in big bulky Spess Mehrins. Print a guardsmen, Genestealer or Eldar modell, than we are talking!
That's a much higher quality than what I've been told to expect from FDM printers, GG.
I own a resin printer already, and I've been considering getting an FDM one for a while, mostly for terrain etc, but I can see how printing half an army in FDM (particularly the bigger and hence more expensive models) might be a very good idea...
I'll have to think about it a bit more, but I'm even more inclined to now.
That’s what simply changing the nozzle size can do for you. A lot of people just keep the default 0.4mm nozzle on the printer and never bother to change it. Going down to a 0.2 will get you much better quality but take a lot longer, going up to a 0.6 will result in slightly lower quality but faster print times.
boo hoo I dont want people to have non toxic easy to clean miniatures. WHAT ?
FDM printer fumes are toxic, though. No idea where this misconception comes from.
Fdm makes fumes, yes, but It's not quite like that, the amount of fumes generated by the resin is greater, and depends on the material, ABS we have cyanide, PLA, only carbon dioxide, in a ridiculously small amount.Now Resin already smells bad, it is liquid and sticky, the parts take much longer to get rid of the smell, the quality is impeccable but it is 100% more toxic than FDM
@@BarokaiRein yes but there's a few things to take into consideration:
1 - FDM generally will produce less fumes than SLA.
2 - The fumes are very dependent on what material you use. e.g. ABS will definitely generate more fumes than PLA.
3 - FMD printers tend to be easier to ventilate.
4 - Once again it depends on the material but most FMD filament are completely fine to touch with vare hands without any post processing.
I think it's fair to say that compared to SLA, FDM can be basically considered non toxic
Unless you're printing on a commercial scale there's really nothing to worry about. Don't drink the resin, don't bathe in it and you'll be fine. Some of yall are some serious nervous Nelson's.
It's defo still toxic in an enclosed space
They look great. I'd rather see these on the table than an official but unpainted army, and I'd definitely rather see an army of these than see someone priced out of the hobby.
I've printed minis that were completely indistinguishable from a injection molded on at more than foot away, on an Ender 3.
The only things that really matter on the STL, the nozzle, and the filament. You really want to be using either a 0.2mm or a 0.15mm. You need good quality PLA/PLA+ to get it to flow reliably through such a small nozzle. You also need to actually TUNE YOUR PRINTER. So few people realize this is a thing, but especially tuning your E-steps. It will have a huge impact when printing fine details. Lastly, the STL. You simply can't expect to print details smaller than your nozzle. Choose STLs will a level of detail that makes sense for your printer and nozzle combo. Flowing cloaks and tabards are a huge advantage as they add nice smooth, wavy, cloth over a lot of hard to print details. If you need a thousand greebles on such a small mini, you probably just need to learn how to paint better.
If you're looking for minis to take to a painting contest where they'll be judged from 2 inches away, FDM is not the play, but otherwise it can work just fine for minis with the right filament, nozzle, and tuning. FDM is also great from printing large terrain pieces. Print in ABS for terrain if possible. It's more annoying to print with, but it's more durable, and you can cut, sand, and modify it easier.
NOTE: I have multiple FDM and resin printers (including DLP printers), and I do macro photography for fun. I'm well aware of the quality differences between different printer types, and can confidently say that good, table top quality minis can be achieved on an FDM printer.
Thank you for being brave and speaking your mind against all the haters. And thank you for doing so with the most positive and encouraging attitude. Just being a dude who loves what he does. Great paint jobs on the minis!
Your last 2 videos are exactly what I've been looking for as someone just looking to get into printing/painting miniatures, please keep up the good work!
PS. I'd be interested to see the kind of results you could get by post processing these, not sure whether that's just sanding some of the more obvious layer lines but I think it'd make a great video as someone who is willing to put in a bit of time in exchange for not having to mess with toxic resin!
"Who cares about detail?" *squeezes paint dropper directly onto model*
I especially love the use of speed paints on a wet pallet!🤣That was funnier than when you squirted the red straight on it.
There is no right or wrong way to be entertained , which is a hobby . If not entertained then find something else to do. Damn good painting .
Have been resin 3d-printing an army myself, and thougt for a time that fdm wasnt detailed enough for minis. Great to see how good your minis came out! Fdm seems really great too
Amazing paintwork on the FDM minis!! Wow. Great job. Always enjoy getting notified of new video posts. They are all gold!! Sense of humor is brilliant as well. :D Keep em coming. I'm a Patreon sub btw
If you came to the shop with these for a game I would have zero idea that they were 3D printed let alone FDM.
I mean, anyone who has eyes would tell on the spot.
Started with an FDM printer for these exact reasons. I've gotten so much joy out of my Ender3 over the years, and I can't recommend picking up an FDM as your first printer. Only recently did I move into a house with a garage, thus enabling me to explore resin printing. While resin does indeed blow the fidelity of FDM out of the water, I was consistently surprised by how good a result I could get on the simpler, cheaper machine, especially with the rare supportless STL, FDM minis can actually look come out quite nicely.
I agree. I have printed some minis and terrain with my FDM printer. It's all fun!! Thanks for supporting this idea!
3:22 you have a special place in heaven
This!!!! ❤
In the past, I tried FDM for character prints. I was able to dial them in and get good results ... but ONLY on the parts where tree supports didn't destroy the detail. However, with the new FDM printers, I really like the idea of doing the monsters with FDM (since they get used and abused) and using my resin printers for the detailed prints and hero figurines.
I used to test my FDM settings with skeletons and goblins. The print fails are great for "What the hell is that?!" moments.
I haven't printed a lot of models with supports but my experience has been similar, supports just seem destroy a model.
Reminds me of how I always preferred to do "weathered" and "battle damaged" scale models because you can always write off mistakes, dings, nicks, and paint chips as part of the damage.
So now we have an AMS, we're looking forward to trying out dissolvable supports @@torq21, it may take even longer to print, but we're hoping that it can help restore some of that detail. Plus, our test model has quite thin legs, so the biggest risk is breaking one when removing the support.
People complain about layer lines in FDM printing as though Resin printing doesn’t result in some very obvious layer lines as well.
Heresy! Blasphemer!! Thou art defiling the Book of Resin!!
... keep up the good work.
>I don't know how to adjust my layer height
SLA has layerlines , but they are much more slight, especially considering time, SLA can print like 12+ of those marines while FDM prints just one in worse quality
The last video is the reason I'm now saving up for an A1 now. Thanks!
watching you paint gives me anxiety. but also, shows me I can relax on my details.
Those were larger models than standard minis so if you have a standard human scale or smaller the results will show more. But play with what you want, you could just print out images on paper and glue them to cardboard if everyone is down with that
Love this! Close up macro shots and marketing influencers have pushed detail and perfectionism to the limits, screw gatekeeping! Print or build, paint and play!
I'm not a fan of the sculpts, but the result is undeniable I think. Gatekeeping will always be a thing in this hobby, and that's a shame, but keep doing what you're doing!
I'm currently painting up a Cacodemon I FDM printed. I primed it first with a slightly thicker layer than normal, but other than that, I've had no real issues with it, the paint goes on well, and while, yes, it you look closely there is still layering visible in a couple of places that paint covers most of it and, for the savings involved, it's worth that very slight drop in quality.
what you mean by "savings"? you can buy mars 2 pro for like under 80$ , and it's will be better in quality for everything under 20 cm size
@@moriyamakyon1067if ur resin printing u should really spend nearly that much on washing and curing stations, respirators, extractor fans etc
@@doggollamaman "extractor fans" - never had one in 6 years
"respirators" - have 1 for 6 years
"curing stations" - curing station aka bucket and UV nail lamp for 10$ (works for 3 years straight)
"washing" - got 5l of IPA for 30$ it's enough for 1-2 years printing a lot
so...where are your insane spendings?
You just convinced me that I can start this hobby easily and quickly. After watching this, I will print up a fire team using FDM, paint them up, and let that be my practice for my first time painting. I will decide whether or not to stick with FDM or switch to Resin after that.
Thank you!
That is the wettest "dry" brushing technique I've ever seen.
Okay, so it might be exaggerated in this video, but go and check out artists opus, you really should not be having a dry drybrush, it is why it ends up looking chalky.
@@NostokAgain I was referring to 3:20
@@lordeng1ish :)
Better then the driest dry brush technique! Powder... powder EVERYWHERE! :P
Its called "overbrushing" and is generally gone to quickly get highs and lows all over the model for speedpaint application.
I don't want my minis to be FDM printed. I don't care what anyone else does. I've played games against people using pictures on carboard stuck to bases. Who cares.
I absolutely LOVE printing miniatures of FDM. That said, one thing people should be aware of is that, even with incredibly small layer lines, painting on FDM *will* wear out your brushes a bit faster than on plastic or resin. Which makes sense, because even if the layers are imperceptible to the naked eye, they’re still there and brushing along that surface is like brushing along a very fine grater. So for everyone interested in this hobby, be prepared to buy new brushes about 20% sooner than you would with resin or plastic.
Good point!
I'm a resin printing nutter and I'm really happy and impressed by how great FDM has become. Given material types, the better FDM gets, not that it isn't killer already, gives the promise of really durable models
As somebody who has been printing for over a decade now, with the right tool, you can make fantastic GW models.
I tested it with some of my friends and acquaintances and showed them a batch of 5 minis and asked them if they could spot which one was the 3D printed one. A friend of mine made the "non-sellable nor distributable" stl and I printed 4 of them. In the first test I painted each of them in the same scheme alongside 1 official one.
Only 1 person was able to visually tell the difference. Everyone else just guessed 1 model apiece not realizing 4 of them were fake and only 1 real. 2 people in specific actually guessed the official one was the fake one. Once they had it in their hands, there were a few more who were able to tell the difference, but even weight can be difficult to discern because I gave each one of the minis the same GW base, but also rocks, basing, and a magnet tacked on underneath, so all of them weighed differently.
I then repeated the same test but 4 official and 1 fake. I was transparent this time, and 2 people were able to guess which one it was, but essentially, I fooled 15 people and I took that as a win. The only one able to spot the difference is a battle hardened store employee, a veteran 40k player of nearly 30 years... At least I got him on the first test (he only guessed 2 were fake)
This test was done with an Ender 3 V3 SE, and a Mars 2 Pro, far from the "best" printers you can find today even within their own price range (as newer printers have released within their own brands)
With the right settings, with the right model, 3D printing has come along enough to where you can print official looking models (unethically) for dirt cheap. The haters can hate, they're just blind to the reality. \o/
Hot take: I think minis should only be hand sculpted. Resin printers have way less detail than human fingers
Please please continue FDM content!! Ignore the haters would love more about any special settings or speeds you use. I am getting a smaller nozzle soon so hopefully i can have a bit better results as well.
The same people complaining about making minis on FDM are the same type of people who complain about using anything that isn't
GW.
that's the dumbest sentence i've read so far this week.
@@Mekhami I assume thats because you can't read...
@@Mekhami if you need me to clarify all you have to do is ask.
@@Mekhami Sad that the "people" here aren't even smart enough to comprehend the very obvious reason why.
@@mechadeka Why is people in quotations 🤔
i was always too scared of starting with minitures cause i only had a FDM printer, this video convinced me to start.
So glad I have found this channel. I live in an apartment and do not have the room for a resin printer or the necessary parts that go with it. an FDM printer would be perfect for me and is plenty fine quality for what I want! Keep up the great work.
It's not that I don't want to see minis printed in FDM, it's just that as someone who's in the hobby mainly to paint models, the results are just not clean enough for me. So until FDM printers match resin printers when printing models below 30um, they're just not for me. I want to see that eventually happen, but I'm fine with waiting for like 10 years until it does happen.
Also, the negativity is partially due to your clickbaity thumbnails. ''Who needs resin'' is going to get several answers along the lines of ''I do, because that's not good enough quality for me.'' said in several different degrees of tact.
Dude, I play Mordheim with a guy that uses paper proxies! Sure the game pictures aren’t “immersive” but I get to play a fun game with friends. Incant believe FDM printers are looking this good!
Lol I spent $400+ last week on some kits for Mordheim. Been grabbing up Warcry, Underworlds and random AoS kits.
FDM is like beyond meat. If it can get resin quality I would switch in a heartbeat
Your last vid had me convinced. I'm definitley getting an A1 mini at the earliest opportunity
Thanks for the encouragement! Just got an A1 Mini and giving mini painting/wargaming another shot after a 12 year hiatus. Very excited.
They are very good 3D prints for FDM and there's no reason you can't enjoy them, but resin is better quality. There's a reason you aren't doing an extreme zoom-in.
Go outside
People playing on the table aren't doing extreme zoom-ins either.
I am glad to see you and other YT's showing the detail a Bambu Labs A1 can print. I am saving money now to get one.
Omg! Squirting paint over the top of the miniature!!!! Freakin subbed...
They do really look way better than I expected. I had no issue with the FDM prints as seen in the last vid, but seeing you handle the colours I got scared for the outcome. You did well mate! Thanks for the content.
This is great. I have a FDM printer only and I make miniatures. Creating great looking minis with limited lines is a hobby by itself. These look amazing.
Incredible how far printing miniatures has come. We're living in the future.
From the spider crawling around your paint station to slathering the mini in red speed paint before painting it on, you're the most Australian person known to man. Also as a speed paint lover, it's great to see these FDM prints colored with it because I always assumed layer lines would ruin it.
These look surprisingly good! I'm impressed! That and cool paint job!
I FDM printed some figures and painted two out of the four I printed and then decided to come to RUclips and see what other people were doing and immediately got down on myself because another creator said “garbage in garbage out” in reference to painting on an FDM for figurines and I then started looking super close at all my layer lines and got ashamed. Thanks for the reminder that the fun I had printing the first two is more important than the layer lines.
You squirting the base coat over the minis is both ingenious and makes me have a small heart attack.
'the quality of the FDM miniatures is too low'
I've seen the average quality paintjob people bring to a store, ain't nobody gets to be snobby 😂