DF83V Review - Is This The Best Budget Endgame Grinder?
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- Опубликовано: 28 июн 2024
- DF83V Review and deep dive to explore if this is better than the competition, or at least worth considering in 2024? z
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Timestamp:
0:00 - Intro
2:00 - Standart Magazine
3:02 - Design
11:52 - Workflow
13:50 - Sound Comparison
14:00 - Design Cont.
16:42 - Burr Talk 
Развлечения
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Hey! If you liked the video, please give it a thumbs up and Subscribe! Also.. it looks like it's time to start planning a new comparison video… Let me know what you’d like to see compared to this DF84V!
Option O Lagom 01, P64, Zerno Z1, Timore 64S, and people would probably be interested in the DF 64v2 as well :) I will definitely be looking forward to this video.
Sculptor 078
Ek-43
Zerno, since it’s close in price with the SSP options
DF83v2 would be an interesting comparison! Curious to know the value of the pre breaker and vertical configuration
I'd love to see this with the 83 SSP MP vs the Zerno with 64 MP.
MP burrs suck
Best way to ring in the new year!! Thank you for covering this grinder! It instantly shot to the top of my list for my new espresso grinder!
Thanks for watching!
this was exactly the video I was looking for when I saw it on their website last week. thank you!
Glad it was helpful!
I think the main power switch would have been better suited to be located on the back out of view and have just the on/off switch on the side.
Started off the new year with a bang, Kyle! Thanks for dropping some dope content.
Thanks for watching! Here’s to an amazing year of coffee and content!
Happy new year Kyle! In addition to the grinders already mentioned it might be interesting to add the Sculptor 78S as well; similar price (non-KS) and burr size
I’ve already started the testing!
Thanks for all the great videos and coffee content@@KyleRowsell - trying to pick between 78S and the DF83V
likewise! @@m4tth3wh
@@KyleRowsell I can't find that... did you manage to publish that, I'd love to see it! tx Mark.
Thanks for covering this grinder so thoroughly! I was in the market for a 83mm flat burr grinder as an upgrade to my Niche Zero for mostly espresso but I do have a v60 as well. I jumped on the preorder when it opened up and included the SSP Espresso burrs in it before the reviews starting coming in. I wonder if they will make a change to that power button before production since it seems to be the most heavily criticized.
Glad I could help!
Good review. We still need the final review for the Lagom 01!
Yes, where’s that?
Happy new year Kyle!!! Great review 😊
Thanks Aaron, happy new year
Great review! It would be nice to know how this behaves with the 83mm Sweet Cast SSP burrs
First video of yours I’ve seen. Great video, thanks for the quality review!
Definitely interested in if you see any practical value out of using different RPMs for espresso, especially with the DLC espresso burrs.
Thanks! Honestly I set and forget more often than not. I do enjoy it when swapping from filter to espresso, or when swapping a burr set to find its sweet spot. But - it’s not a game changing feature
@@KyleRowsell Try low vs high RPM, and maybe try dumping the coffee in at like a medium low RPM (whatever wouldn't make the safeguard kick in) vs high RPM but slow feeding. I think I wanna try that experiment to see what makes more of an impact, RPM or feed rate.
Any updates on a 078s comparison? Deciding whether I wanna put in my pre-order for this or go with a 078s, I'm an espresso drinker (usually light-medium roasts) with a Niche Zero.
It should be out within the next couple weeks
@@KyleRowsell would you say to hold off on pre-order for now? I'm just worried I'll lose the pre-order discount but I know they say you lose 3% if you cancel the pre-order.
Great Video Kyle, really clear summary and comparison as well Burr discussion is informative without being too technical.
Thanks!
for burrs....DO NOT take ANYTHING anyone says in slight differences in flavor. If you want to know, try them yourself, and allow your own bias to weigh in and make that subjective and immeasurable difference effect your pocket. All these reviews with such nuance differences in flavor for shots made are BS at best, and deceptive at worst. So many factors that sway the mind, its just not that measurable when the quality of both are so high.
Very detailed and interesting review as always thanks for that video ❤
Any review or comparison with the WPM ZP-1 grinder please ? I’m looking for that 😊
Great review Kyle! I was looking forward to your thoughts on this grinder.
Thanks for watching!
What a start to 2024!! Happy new year Kyle and I'm extremely excited for next video😉🫡
Thank you, friend!
I would be curious to know how big the wire port for the power button is. It might not be too hard to replace the accordion with an esthetically pleasing switch.
Great review, Kyle! I can't wait to see the new DF face off against some of your other higher end grinders!
Thanks for the review Kyle. Do you still have the Timemore Sculptor 78? How would that compare to the SSP MPs 83? Different price category obviously but would love to hear your thoughts.
I think everyone was so confused at first why it's tilted backwards :D
I think there's benefit even with auger fed / pre-breaker coffee grinders to slow feed the coffee into the burrs (if you want more clarity and less fines).
I experimented with the Zerno Z1 and it's a huge difference with dumping coffee in and starting vs slower feeding as it runs. Try it yourself, what I'm wondering is whether or not the feed rate has more or less of an effect than variable RPM does. I suspect it might, because with some burrs I barely notice a difference with RPM changes.
DF83V Motor is nice and quiet but it does seem like actual grinding gets loud, like the original DF83, but it's FAST so not too bad. One grinder I thought was weird because I think the MOTOR was actually louder than the grinding was the Weber Key. It could have been such a nice quiet grinder especially at lower RPM if they just would have made the motor or gear box shutup!
Speaking of having a polished grinder, I thought the Eureka Oro Single Dose grinder would be like a perfect DF64 but (especially the first version) it seemed more untested than some of the earlier DF64s, like on BOTH my original and updated 1.1v of the Oro SD neither actually worked with their included bellows. There was only a tiny bit of retention but for some reason it still blocked the flow and their weak bellows/ poorly sealed grind chamber didn't allow the bellows to push air and retention out through the grind path. I recommend that grinder but just pretend it never came with a bellows :D You can get it to work, but requires a good beating, and that's not very good workflow.
The Option-O P64 I think is THE grinder to get if you want a polished no nonsense grinder. Zerno Z1 is getting there too.
I don't think DF/Turin people are making their own burrs, from what I hear you need very particular and expensive tools to be able to make burrs, so there's only a few companies that actually make them, and they usually end up rebranded by other companies. I think Joe from Espresso outlet / Turin brand may have helped with the design and ultimately approved the burrs once it was found to meet their standards. It's nice to have some good more affordable burr options because once you go above 64mm those SSP burrs get pretty pricey!
People leave out the Acaia Orbit in these discussions and I think it competes incredibly well with the P64 and for a few hundred less.
@@wsrobert32 Sure. It has some unique and neat features like it can be a Grind by weight grinder and you can do burr alignment through screws on the back of the burr carrier instead of messing with shims. That would be awesome if it works.
Rpm profiling is a whole new rabbit hole too.
I think there were a few not so impressive first impressions and I hadn't heard much else about it. Not sure how many are out in the wild yet. They really need to get more out there and get some reviews because I don't think many people actually know about it.
Great great great video! I will buy one with the HU espresso burss. Can you tell me how much coffe should I use for seasining the burrs? Should I do 5kg ? or less to have consistent shots?
Hey man ! Great video! Could I do nice expressos with the multipurpose red ssp burrset? I want to do filter coffee also, but just wanted to know if I could do very nice expresso shots also with the multipurpose :) Thanks!
how do you find it compare with the 078s (my main use is espresso). Good video
I just got the gen 2 DF64 and I’ve been very pleased with it so far.
Thanks for watching
Thanks for reviewing. How does it compare to the Zeno (one of the hyped end-game grinders that has some similarities to this one)? Does the Zero "worth" the huge price difference?
Great video, how do you align the burrs with this one? The DF83 I could just tighten it up and then turn the bolt in the middle, how do you do the marker test (turn the burrs once you have it marked up) with this one?
You would run the grinder and tighten the adjustment until you hear very light touching
I'm a P64 owner, and I love their grinders overall, but I can see that more and more potential P64 buyers will move to DF grinders or other brands. This is the first time I've had a good impression from a DF grinder, and by the time they release the DF83V v2 or something (assuming they've fixed its minor flaws), it will be challenging for Option-O to remain competitive since the P64 is very overpriced. It's becoming harder and harder for buyers to justify the price tag.
I think it will be interesting to watch the sector over the next few years as things become increasingly competitive.
df64 gen 2 is very well built too, extremely robust and has great features especially at literally 1/4 of the price
Agree 100% - It is time for the "premium" brands to get a bit more real about their over pricing
@user-ev3ex7ey6g someone has to do it first at a high price, it's simply how the market functions. Now that the unknowns are knowns, Lagom will be able to release a more competitively priced option like the rest of the market, or they will use their time to further innovate and create another highly priced option that people will buy.
I own a P64 as well. I think the lack of an auger is a major downside to it. The consistency seems so dependent on the feed rate. I’m really considering an auger fed grinder to help with consistency.
I loved the las perlitas lot 2 from september! Really fruity reminded me of a strawberry kiwi smoothie even!
Think the SSP cast can offer a good filter and espresso all around option?
Hey Kyle. Which is better for high clarity filter coffee. Df83v with stock brew burrs or df64v with upgraded ssp multipurpose burrs? Later down the line, I want to get into espresso, but I will get a separate burr for that later on. Which is why I'm not interested in the timemore 078.
I loved the review!
I'm very curious how the espresso burrs compare with the Timemore 078s burrs.
Already working on the comparison!
@@KyleRowsell thank you sir! Really loving your production lately 👌 it's been top notch
Can you also compare the 78 to DLC brew burrs? Appreciate your thoughts!
Great video Kyle! I think this is the next grinder for my coffee bar
Hey, is the 83mm ssp mp burrs better for filter/ pour over compared to the timemore 78 turbo burrs?
Great review, I will wait for V2. DF product always has something to be improved fromV1.
How it is compared with the 1 Zerno ? And EK 43?
Did you get the SSP cast brew burrs? They have the option with it on their website
Hi Kyle and thanks for the video.
There are some flavored coffee beans like vanilla coffee beans.
How do they do that ?
Could you please make a short video about it ?
Would love to see those brew burrs compared to the sculptor 078 turbo for filter!
How this compare against the timemore 078S? Does it worth the extra bucks?
Can you make a video comparing this to the Timemore sculpto 78s? I'm caught between these two but can't fins much comparison content...
so are the “Turin” grinders reliable?
Is there any reason for not hot starting the grinder to avoid turning it off?
I have a DF83v with the SSP HU burrs I use exclusively for espresso. Came perfectly aligned and love it. Have the opportunity to order a Zerno in a few days - worth the upgrade?
Hey Kyle. Great video - loving the channel generally. Do you think the 83v is significantly better performing than the 64gen2 with DLC burrs and/or SSP (various)? Thanks!
I join the question
078 turbo burr vs df83v brew burrs, whats the difference in the cup?
would like to see comparison or review on the Gevi GrindMaster. Although it's not the same size.
Thanks for watching
ty ty ty for the decibel testing!
Np!
Hi Kyle how was the SSP MP burrs for espresso?
Hi Kyle how was the SSP MP burrs for espresso? 😊
Why did they go away from the wave spring?
Great review, but what happened to the promised comparison to the timemore 078s? I'd love to know!!!
My only gripe with the DFs so far is the damn noise. While I have no way of hearing them irl, through all the videos I’ve heard they seem to have the same screeching noise of the Sette if not even louder. It is a real deal killer for me. I am excited to see if they have done anything about it.
If you watched the full video I do compare the noise to competitors!
@@KyleRowsell Oh yeah, the video delivered. Still unsure about the grinder, it seemed comparable to the other two and no one seems to mind any of them. Maybe it’s the microphones or speakers and i’ll just have to bite the bullet one of these days and see for myself
As cool as the all the matte black ones look, I can’t buy a plastic one without the thought of just buying a metal one down the road. How’s the niche compare with noise levels?
It would be interesting if you can also review weber eg1 as some sort of high end grinder review series.
I’m hoping to buy one in 2024
@@KyleRowsell would like to know your opinion.
Good Timing with this video posting after Lance Hendricks video about grinders and his idea of the advantages of augers and prebreakers.
Neat! I haven’t watched it but will check it out. Augers are superior in my experience
c'mon, Jon! You know me well enough to know my last name has no "N" in it! haha!
Started a month ago on a sage express. Now waiting to be able to order the black df83v with standard espresso burrs 😅. I think the sage will not stay in my house for very long. Already got my eye 👁️ on the ecm synchronika 😊
Does anybody know from personal
Experience if this df83v is better than a ceado 37s?????
Great review, Ive been waiting for this one. Can you please elaborate bit more about the SSP MP? You compared them against the brew burrs but what about a modern espresso? how good they are?
Please give my large comparison video a watch with the Niche Duo and the DF83. I covered my thoughts on these burrs in detail! Thanks!
@@KyleRowsell Thanks, I think that was the third time I've watched that comparison, you mentioned that you want to see an 83mm Zerno, which I can imagine that the DF83V could be similar to as it has a kind of a pre-breaker. in addition, the SSP MP is referred mostly to as a brew burr in that comparison, I really like to hear about the espresso capabilities of the MP for those who looking for more clarity rather than body/sweetness
Great way to kick 2024 off Kyle 🎉
Happy New Year!
I cant decide between this and the Niche Duo. The niche I could probably get for this price point, because i can order it from London without VAT. Is there a possibility to order the DF83-V the same way, because otherwise it going to cost way to much to import it to norway.
DUO is only better if you want to swap burrs daily. If not, DF83V all the way.
I only make traditional espresso, but I've been loving the Niche Duo. Somehow, they figured out how to get very low retention and static without the use of puffers or ionizers. Personally, I like the appearance of the DF83v more than the Duo, but the Duo has a cuteness to it. If you're not put off by the aesthetics, I'd highly recommend it.
Also, anyone who's worked in manufacturing knows how hard it is to support multiple product lines. I have much more faith that Niche will be supporting the Duo in a couple of years. If the DF83v breaks down in a couple years they may already be on v5 with different electronics.
What about the ssp mp for espresso?
Of course, they’re great. But for modern - quick flowing espresso. Not traditional.
Do they sell this in white ?
For $800 and such a nice design otherwise you’d think they could figure the gearing to get enough torque. Sure, a lower RPM but that seems a reasonable trade off.
Can you please compare that to the timemore 078S😊
I will!
I think we need to take a deeper look at grinder industry.
How can you put a grinder out, an 83mm burr grinder at that, that constantly fail safes when you try to do what its intended for? Then charge a premium for it?? Then a month later bring out v2 which fixes the ugly as sin switches and readout. Then a few month later v3, which swaps a plastic part for an ali one. Then a few month later..... You get my point.
All the RnD is surely in the burr itself? So what on earth warrants this price tag apart from greed?
I hear what you’re saying. But also, you may be leaning to hard into what I stated. It’s not an issue unless you’re brewing the densest of coffees and have to cold start, otherwise the majority will never face this issue. But again, I hear you.
@@KyleRowsell Thankyou for the reply.
I appreciate that it may only be the lightest of roasts but looking at the way the whole industry is leaning, id say more people are buying and being able to access lighter roasts. So therefore a modern machine in the modern coffee industry should be able to cold start a light roast. For the price you pay I expect it to work correctly.
I just think we as consumers consistently get screwed over!
My lelit Fred pl03mmi has a 38mm conical burr, never skipped a beat and I've put some silly experimental coffees through it all for espresso always on a cold start. However, I am looking to upgrade to an endgame espresso grinder, I just don't think the market or competition to establish a reasonable price point is there yet.
@@carpNcoffee again I agree, but many who will be buying this light of a roast won’t be buying the stock espresso burrs… the only burr set that showed this problem for me!
@@carpNcoffee same. a decade old super jolly, 64mm flat burrs, has NEVER not gone through the lightest of roasts. This df83 thing has a 600w+ motor, agree the fail safe trigger is a design flaw, especially at this price.
Great review. I'm assuming they will make a 98mm version, so I plan on waiting for that one.
No news on that, but would be very interesting. Likely pricy
What about multipurpose 83mm for espresso?
They can, but it’ll be a very low body and high flowing shot.
@@KyleRowsell Thank you Kyle, your suggestion is very important to help me make a decision, cause I like acidic coffee, but I also like texture and complexity
Do you think this grinder and its 83mm burrs would have an advantage over the Zerno Z1’s 64mm and superior build quality?
I guess we will have to compare to find out.
Yes please. Do you know if Zerno plans a larger burr model?@@KyleRowsell
@@TheBigBowy I believe they do. 80mm.
That power switch is such a bizarre choice. I've never seen one like it and it's just awful. It looks like some seriously janky crap, not to mention a huge PITA to clean those folds.
Yeah... But honestly it's still the best looking DF grinder by a landslide. It's nice.
@@KyleRowsell I agree, I like the look of the whole thing other than that switch.
Hey Kyle! Im trying to decide between a DF 83v, Zerno Z1, Option -0 P64 and Option -O Lagom 01. Any advice? I know many of those grinders are coming in at different price points but I have a hard time understanding how the cup quality would differ for these grinders or what I should expect. Any help would be greatly appreciated!
That’s a wide budget! The 01 is 3 times the price. How would you be using it? Context is important, and I’ll be following up this video with a deeper comparison
99% of people wouldn’t be able to tell the difference between these grinders. It’s all clever marketing.
@KyleRowsell I would be wanting to make both espresso and pour over coffee. I like the idea of being able to try out lots of different types of coffee probably between the light to medium range. At the moment I really like the idea of sweet fruit forward coffees that minimize bitterness. I would love to be able to consistently make Blueberry bombs and other sweet fruity coffee drinks :) If this matters, I also have a Meticulous and Meticulous Milk machine that I have ordered. I can afford to pay for the Lagom 01 if it will make better cups of coffee but am not sure if the quality keeps going up or not.
@@nomadicsouls3290 preach it brother. Sold off my df83 , put my timempre sculptor 64s up fpr sale. Having happy results with my 1zpresso k.ultra handgrimder and a used baratza sette for easier espresso life. No need for anyone to fall for marketing tactics to have a sci-fi shiny object on the kitchen counter
How to join the giveaway?
Patreon! Will post a contest in the near future
Are these grinders actuall better than the very good hand grinders? Are the motorized grinders better for any particular reason other than convenience?
Kyle, did you earlier tighten your grind setting with beans loaded… and the grinder OFF? A slap on the wrist!!!
I noticed this too, maybe NBD due to auger?
would need a 300g hopper for this
Can you review EK Omnia ?
Yes
@@KyleRowsell Can't wait !
Timemore 078 looks to be the better grinder for the workflow. The price jump between 64mm and 83mm ssp burrs is pretty big so its good to see good options from the factory.
The only turin grinder I’d actually consider getting
Would love to hear what it is about this one interests you!
@@KyleRowsellthe burr size, more premium materials, well thought details previous grinders lacked. Seems more polished as a product
Sounds like it's worth a wait for a version 2 honestly. Great review.
This dude just vanished. Lol jk man, where are you? Miss your content.
What rpm was the sound test in?
1200
Cool! Would be interesting to see how loud it is at the minimum?
I got a sculptor 78s after you reviewed it and unfortunately i got a unit that has major alignment issues (every marker test produces different patterns after 5 days of tests). And i found out I am not the only one with this specific problem.
I am seriously thinking about getting rid of it and getting a df83v.
I'm stuck between this one and a Duo, thoughts?
Comparison coming soon!
Sweet! Thanks
It might be a good grinder but the design seriously needs a V2 ASAP. Those buttons are hideous and worst of all: they're EVERYWHERE. Not a fan of that bellows either... Otherwise I think that the rest looks very nice, especially the design for the catch cup resp below the catch cup.
Just a comment on the accordian on/off switch. The accordion is there to provide dust protection against the switch. Not saying it looks pretty but at least it is functional.
accordion/membrane covers are typically there to provide some type of waterproofing. Why'd there be water near a grinder?
@@sinosoul designing for worst case scenario. just because you're smart enough not to spill espresso onto your machine doesn't mean everyone else is. also dust (espresso grinds) and water proofing are two sides of the same coin.
Now I'm waiting for DF98V which is heavily inspired by ek43 but with variable speed 😂
Seems counterintuitive that a 680w motor would perform a safe shut off so easily. Perhaps this is something that the company can provide a fix for?
Likely.
Likely a torque safety limit so you don't damage the motor if you get a stone or something in the coffee (hopefully saves the burrs too). *Update: Ah yeah good, Kyle actually covered that in the video. I saw another review saying that that happened at like the lowest RPM (what was it 300?) but a few notches up at like 500 and it never happened.
Anyone know where Kyle has gone?
Still here! New videos soon.
niche zero or this one for espresso and sometimes cappuccino
I think I can speak, a little bit, to the stalling in this particular review. September Coffee has REALLY dense beans. Now, this is no criticism. I watched this video sipping on the Yukro washed Ethiopian from September. It maybe the best coffee I’ve ever had. Aside: I tried it late summer, loved it so much, I got 3 more bags and froze them - I’m down to about a bag and a half. I grind with a J-MAX hand grinder so I know, quite intimately how hard or easy it is to grind every coffee I’ve purchased over the last 18 months. The J-MAX has chewed up and spit out over 100 different coffees from three or four dozen different roasters. And September’s are the hardest. And it’s not close. I almost exclusively drink light, light/medium roasts. I think the coffee that is going give this grinder a headache (and only at very low Rpm) is likely to be pretty rare.
Exactly my point. Thanks for the comment
I still don't get it how your channel does not haver 1 million followers, this is clearly a bug on youtube. Look this production! :) Cheers mate, enjoy 2024!
Hopefully one day!
Why do you say at 6:49 with the auger "no popcorning is possible" and then exactly 5 seconds later the video shows a bean shooting back up straight at the camera?
No pop-corning in the feeding of the burrs. This is the feed of the auger. Different when it comes to how it effects distribution of grounds, also this would always have its hoper with anti-pop-corning disk installed to remove any pop-corning
I wish i waited for this. Got the df64v and it stalls like crazy. Got so frustrated trying to unjam the damn thing in the morning before my coffee
Sorry to hear that!
When I buy a grinder for >800€ I want to drop in my beans without the necessity for a certain pattern or workflow to avoid "stalling"
I think that new Gevi is a hit!
Keep ur good job
From the flight :)
Ahmad 🙏
If I was slowly pouring beans into the chamber, I'd constantly think... "JUST GIMME MY F'KIN GROUNDS!". I'll stick with the DF83, but I do quite like the idea of the DLC espresso burrs.
I'm just pissed they bring out the DF83 V2 and then a few months later this... got FOMO now having purchased the 83 v2
We miss you. Do some vdo please.
DF grinders have come a long way.
Variable speed, single dosing, low retention, plasma generator, big burrs/motors, and ease of cleaning.
High end grinder companies need to step up their game, otherwise it's a matter of time.
How can an $800 coffee grinder be considered a budget option?
It's funny... I for some reason love the accordion buttons.
Nice!