Paused the video to thank you for saying these can be end-game grinders for most of us. There’s a lot of pressure to upgrade to the most expensive tool in the espresso world, so that was refreshing to hear.
At some point, it becomes more about wanting to have the shiniest toy than about what the device can actually deliver. You see the same thing with other hobbies: audiophiles spending thousands on their set ups, gamers breaking the bank to get the latest rig every generation, or petrol heads buying a sports car based on how fast it is around a circuit when they have no intention of ever racing with it. There's nothing wrong with wanting to own a cool high-tech thing because it's cool and high-tech; pretending that you'll use it to its full capacity and genuinely appreciate the improvement in its output on a day-to-day basis is (for most people) a little lie they tell themselves.
@Catheidan that and the Timemore were both harsh with that high-pitched sound. At work, I deal with engines that are around 116-118 dB, but the frequency they run at will put you to sleep.
The support from Baratza is very slow. I have on this grinder for several years and anytime I have a problem it takes weeks for them to get back to you .
I’ve had one of these grinders for 2 years and the coffee industry is so focused on “the next upgrade” or “the end game product” I felt like I just HAD to upgrade. I was looking at the pricey flat burr grinders like they were going make my espresso so much better. After talking to someone who has the same grinder as me and is perfectly satisfied with it and now watching this video I feel a bit like the ungrateful child who always wants more. I’m gonna keep my grinder and be happy about it. Thanks for the video Hoffdaddy.
Hoffdaddy LOL that sent me. But that aside, being satisfied with what you have is hard when the industry is always buzzing about flashy new things. So I think it's commendable that you were able to take a step back and really ask yourself if you needed that upgrade!
It’s marketing. They arent insanely better than one another. People are compulsive buyers especially ones that are OCD about their coffee. What really is going to make your coffee stand out is good fresh roasted coffee.
The fact that James has been publishing so much scientific analysis about coffee *for free* on RUclips for all of us to learn how to make better coffee is a gift. I'm not only referring to this video, but many others he has published in the past. (And his books are a treat too!). Thank you, James! ❤☕
Ex-barista here, I had the Sette for years now and I'm fairly satisfied with it for something that is decent for both espresso and filter. I think any coffee equipment will be as good as the skill you put into it at the end of the day, but of course when you have really nice equipment it makes your life easier. When I miss high end gear from my coffee shop life, it's usually because of workflow, not so much how the shots taste. This is a great video, and I think buying one of these grinders and then investing in skill acquisition could get anyone going a long way before they need to upgrade.
Personally, I don't - but I get mindful of it if it's very early in the morning. If your kitchen is not next to bedrooms, or you don't have thin walls with neighbours, I think it's fine. I am used to louder grinders and this doesn't bother me. It's hard to say how much it'd bother you, but it's definitely audible and there are quieter options on the market. Hope this helps 😊
Mine is 4 years old now and had zero issues so far, though I could just be lucky (I also do regular maintenance). I grind between 30-50g a day, which isn't that much I guess.
3 years with my Niche Zero and it’s never missed a beat. Gives me everything I need for espresso, great work flow, and I LOVE the noise it makes. Recently got an 1zpresso hand grinder for filter and travel. Every new grinder that comes out always gets my interest and promises to be the one for me, but reviews like this help it feel like there’ll always be something missing. Happy to call my current set up end-game for me. Thanks James!
Because Niche is a conical bur and doesn't require high rpm it doesn't need to be started prior grinding and the work flow is not matched by the other grinders and if you like dark roasts for espresso and latte or caps then you need look no more, also the quiet low pitched grinding I love this grinder
I've had Lagom Mini for over a year. We make 2-3 espressos a day with it and 1-2 pour overs. Our lattes are better than local coffee shop, no complaints. Pour overs are great. As is any other filter coffee we've made. The BIGGEST pro for this is that my wife really likes the size and design AND she she has no issues using it.
I have an issue with it's name. Lagom is a Swedish word for "just the right amount" and then they go and slap "mini" onto it which just doesn't work, you can't have a miniature variation of something that is supposed to be lagom.
Just got the DF64 gen2. Excellent build quality. Nowhere near as loud as I was anticipating from RUclips reviews. I was wishing for this video ~3 weeks ago when I placed my order. Your detailed analysis is appreciated!
@@penleypepsi9510 It's held up, has the range, and obviously better than the built-in grinder on my Breville Barista Express. That said, I've been doing aeropress more than filter with it
I make both filter and espresso with my Sette 270 every day. The ability to switch back and forth easily is important to me and the Sette has consistently yielded excellent results.
I have the Sette too. Using it mostly for espresso the last 3 years with no issues at all. I’m just getting into V60 pour over. Can I ask what grind range you find good for filter - V60 and auto drip machine?
I've had a sette for 9 months and love it for espresso. I read once online it was bad for filter so I just hand grind. What's your filter/espresso setting? I'm at 17C for espresso.
I have Sette 270 Wi with the built-in scale. I think the weighting makes it great and very easy to use with pretty consistent doses ^^ I actually bought Wilfa Uniform for filter coffee because of the hopper that makes it too much a chore to change from espresso to filter and back :D
It will be hard to compare machines, I have a sette 270 as well and the exact settings you use for espresso grind will depend on the burrs and how many shims you have put under the burr@@rocketsfancheif. I use ~6D currently for my espresso but I have one of the shims installed.
I've had my Niche for over a year now. I paid ~800€ for it with taxes and haven't really regretted buying it even for a second. Makes excellent filter coffee and superb espresso. It's my first real espresso grinder and will probably be my last too. It's built like it's going to last a lifetime and it is highly serviceable.
I’ve had mine for roughly the same amount of time and feel similarly. Mine has been on espresso duty exclusively until recently, and I’ve been happy with the filter results, too. To be honest, I wonder how much more I could get from a higher end grinder - right now I think the limiting factor may actually be my palate. For now, I’ll continue working to develop that, along with my technique.
Same here, I bought mine used and have had it for a couple months now and it's amazing. Sound doesn't bother me at all, my milk steamer louder anyway 😂
I actually use the Sette 30 for espresso/filter, I've been VERY happy with it. For espresso I've got my Flair, so I can adjust a lot of factors (to make up for the loss of grinder setting control). For filter I use immersion-style devices like the Aeropress and French press.
Have used the Eureka Mignon Oro Single Dose grinder for between 3 and 6 espressos every day for just over a year. It is built like a tank, sounds quality and volume is good and it’s so quick that the noise lasts for less time. Don’t use it for filter (have a Kinu M47 for V60/Aeropress) but love it for espresso.
Also noteworthy is how despite having a lot of knowledge, experience and opinions in the filed he still remains a curious and open-minded person who always strives for more and respects the opinions of others.
I have been using my Sette for a year now. It works for both espresso & pour overs and is clean operating with very low retention. There is nothing in its price range comparable. In line ups like this the Sette gets short shrift because less to discuss. The worst thing to point out is the sound, but the speed makes it last only10 seconds at a time. This is a solid performer at an exceptional price. Thank you for the plethora of content this month, it is like getting extra presents.
sorry to correct you, but retention is typically >= .7 grams, which for e.g. a classic standard equals 10%. i'm still using it myself (always dumping the first gramm), but it just baffles me how some people can complain over tiny things like particle distribution while others dismiss facts in the (huge) ten percent range.
I've been using a Mignon Zero at home for a few months now, and honestly very happy with it. I did buy it exclusively for espresso, and I'm not the kind of person that wants to think about upgrading the parts on my machine. I've enjoyed that it's a quiet, clean, and consistent machine. If you don't want to spend any time thinking about your espresso grinder, it's a great (if boring) choice.
I've had my DF64 Gen 2 for about 3 months and paid about $382 (I'm guessing some promo). I'm very happy with it. I make filter coffee everyday and espresso maybe 4 days/week. Very easy to dial in and to clean the burrs. I was between that and the Niche Zero, but for the price it was a no-brainer for me. I was just waiting for James' approval of that grinder lol.
@@marck.5116 I have a Gen 2. It is loudish but the sound itself grates more than the level of sound. It's smooth and quiet when running without beans. Putting the beans causes the grating. 6-8 seconds worth typically. I will/would live with it, as in terms of overall value for money, it's great.
I personally love my DF64 (v4 I believe). I actually 'sidegraded' from a Eureka Mignon Specialita and it was the best coffee decision I ever made. While it is on the louder side of things while grinding, it doesn't matter much to me. Cleaning it (burrs) doesn't really require taking it apart (which is tooless anyways) and dialing works very well. It does get messier with larger particles (at filter level) but nothing a quick wipe won't manage. For the price paid, it's a no brainer (ordered directly from df64coffee or similar, ships from Singapour I believe ?)
Used the Baratza Sette 270 for ages and very happy with it. One lesser mentioned feature is that the Aeropress fits nicely under it. So if you are a big Aeropress user as I am you can grind directly into it. Similar to others the lack of retention and such are also attractive. I like the design where the beans drop straight through, not having to be shunted around into the chute. Yeah, it could be quieter but doesn't especially bother me (and I'm a bit noise sensitive.) I'm going to try starting the motor before dropping the beans through to see if it makes any difference. Always learning something news from James' videos.
I very much agree, I didn't know that it actually could fit an aeropress under it. The sound I feel my be louder but it's a better quality sound. Others has a high pitched Ringing, where the sette had a deeper vibration sound. Making it (in my opinion) a much better option
I've had the Sette 270 for years and I find its flexibility to be an underrated asset. When I want to be a coffee nerd, it has the continuously adjustable dial and low retention, but when it's Monday morning and I just want coffee now, the big hopper and very fast grind speed make my life noticeably better. If you're like me and have a partner who drinks mostly filter and is not as picky about freshness, the big bucket and fast speed are very convenient for pre-grinding 20 doses of filter for the partner, so that I only have to dial in my espresso grind once every two weeks instead of every day.
It seems to me, if I were a grinder manufacturer, that I would use James as a testing consultant on the prototype before scaling to manufacture. He certainly appears better at critiquing features per a "real world" consumer perspective than the engineers producing product models. Reminds me of Dyson which never actually uses the innovative product the way it is supposed to work.
Frankly I bet they probably don't wanna budget for him. I bet he makes more off the content he makes on fresh reviews than manufacturers want to pay him.
This can only mean that we may be getting a revamp for: best espresso grinder under £1500, best espresso machine under £500 and best espresso machine under £1500 👀
@@DaddyMakesCoffee also the home coffee market is much more sophisticated compared to when those videos originally came out. I wouldn’t be surprised if we saw product comparison videos for grinders and espresso machines around the £3500 mark
My Mignon is 5 years old, heavily used, original burrs, never missed a beat, easy and super-accurate geared adjustment for grind variation, bean to bean variation etc I only make espresso. It works for me definitely.
I have the sette 270 Wi model, and what I love is that I don't have to worry about using a scale, especially because my machine has volumetric dosing. I agree that the build and sound is terrible, also the lid on mine will not stay on. Oh, and the sette has near zero retention which was also a big feature to me.
I appreciate James’s comments about the Eureka grinder. I chose a Mignon for my espresso grinder, and fully concur with the UI issues; the stepless grind adjustment is not useful for multiple brew methods but awesome for dialing in one specific method. I find that Eureka grinders seem to be lost in the online conversation about the newest and hottest grinders, when they are solid, well built, refined performers who do their job without too much fuss.
I would actually like another adjustment wheel on my mignon - switching between two different beans can be a bit frustrating since the small wheel sits quite high above the indicator mark... switching back and forth between two espresso settings is always down to some readjusting. I also found the alignment of the two burrs to be a bit of a weak spot. It can be quite a bit of work to get the two burrs perfectly leveled. love the grinder but I probably would go for another option now.
@@manuelsigrist3789which one would you go for? I would like to switch between decaf and normal beans easily. Can't get the niche unfortunately though...
There’s a ton of chatter about the mignon specialitta on Reddit etc. tons of people modding it into basically a oro. The oro is just too expensive for what it is.
I have been rocking the Eureka Mignon Specialitta for 4 years and it still produces great results. I bought a 3d printed single dose modification, but hardly ever use it. For travel purposes my old Commandante C40 still does a great job. I feel no need to ever upgrade with this setup.
DF 64 Gen 2 for me. It now comes with an extra metal attachment to the top of the cup which doubles as a great collar and makes the grinding and prep a lot less messier. Very happy with this grinder.
My wife asked me to get a less noisy grinder. I started to look into that but soon I fell into the black hole of grinders. After weeks of researching I was about to pull the trigger on a big helios when my coffee gear dealer help me snap out of it. I walked out with a Eureka Mignon and never looked back.
I have had the Eureka for years, and it can grind, but it CANNOT grind, and then try a different coffee dialed in or even go back to your old setting. IT SUCKS, and wastes coffee. If you stick to theSAME coffee it is great, but I like trying different beans, and its a NIGHTMARE. There is ZERO indication as the wheel needs to spin multiple times to adjust. If you plan on doing any filter then back to espresso...FORGET IT! SO I am getting rid of mine.
I've used the Eureka Mignon Specialita for years & want for nothing. It's easy to dial in, quiet, built very well, fast, easy to clean, very low retention, cheap, & makes great coffee. I don't change burrs & only drink espresso, so it's never been a problem.
Came here to say the same. Very happy with it as and espresso-only, non single-dose grinder (I'm living "that life" according to JH). It's fast, quiet, robust and looks/feels really nice. I do think it's got the same issue with SSP burrs not being available though... Lance did a video with some other burr options I think.
Thanks for another great comparison video! I have owned a Baratza Sette for a few years now, and I am very happy with it. Yes, it is very noisy and it does feel a bit more plasticky than some other grinders BUT it is plenty strong and has yet to show a sign of weakening. For those who want to buy the Baratza Sette, something worth mentioning: you can buy the Sette 30 - which lacks micro adjustment vs the 270 - and then upgrade the burr for about 70€ and save 30€ in the process. The sette 30 has only one time setting (vs 3 for the Sette 270) but I don't think that is a great feature anyhow, the front of the machine is neater and les cumbersome with less buttons anyhow.
I have the DF64 V5. I am using it with the round declumper thing, a stainless steel cup and angled holder. Works like a charm. No mess and not a lot of static. I think the DF64 is still the best bang for your buck grinder.
I have a Sette 270Wi, which doses by weight, and I love it. It's noisy as hell, but it also turns out that I'm an incredibly deep sleeper and even that thing in the kitchen didn't really bother me. I love that I can set the weight and forget about weighing my beans. I don't really see the problem with the buttons and the display, I think it has a charming, retro look to it that it does pull off quite well. I did once manage to get it stuck after I took out the burr and it refused to go back in, so I had to spend about $100 for repair....but I do love it as an owner.
I have a Sette for 5 years or so now and am still very happy with it. Yes, it is like starting a jet engine, but that never bothered me that much. What I really like is the easy if cleaning and that is has almost zero retentions, because of the open burr. It also ahs been very easy to 3D print a single dose hopper :)
Is it similar to the Encore ESP? It’s the one I’m planning to get so I hope the taste review of the Sette is similar. I think they have the same or at least very similar burrs.
@@Abdullah-cj2mh From the pictures it seems based on the Sette 30, the "little Sister" of the sette 270 (which has two rings to adjust grind size) I would expect the Encore ESP to taste very similar to the Sette 30, but I hevn't tried the 30, just the 270, where you have much fienr control over the grindsize, due to the non-setpped fine adjustment ring.
I backed early and picked up the Timemore 078 for under £500. One minor UX issue is that it's not super easy to see exactly what grind setting you're on at the fine end, especially of your coffee corner isn't well lit. I've used a chalk pen to more clearly mark the lines and it makes a huge difference. Definitely an end-game grinder for me until life circumstances dramatically change.
Yep. Also, if you press with the correct pressure, you can get the bellows to not make a mess even without the ring. But the ring makes everything better. Also for what it's worth, it looks REALLY good in white, as opposed to the cheaper looking black that seems to be the standard.
I’ve been using the niche zero for almost 2 years now based off the recommendation in the original video however many years ago and have loved it. Overtime you learn to master some of the little quirks that now almost never hinder my workflow. The most important I found was labeling the ring for my favorite coffees and brew methods. V2 would be cool to have those programmable and then obviously the motor run while the hopper is open.
Same, I just got mine a week ago and my light roast pour overs have never been brighter and tastier. It also check off all the marks in aesthetics for me so I'm glad James approves as well haha
ive read/seen videos suggesting that the espresso range is very tight and that a small turn of the dial can change the output time by quite a bit (like, 1 tick = 10 seconds). Has this been your finding?
I have had a Gen 1 DF64 for well over a year now. I am now using 4 sprits of water after weighing my beans and am very satisfied with the limited to no retention and little static I get with this machine using this method. The new DF64 seems much improved but I don’t think I can justify upgrading. The espresso I am getting is great. I have a Bezzera Aria which paired up well with this grinder for my purposes. Thanks for your channel. I always enjoy the content.
I'm glad you touched on sound quality and quantity. Really reinforced my decision to get the Niche. I don't want to end up hating any part of my workflow and a shrill and loud grinder would definitely detract from it
I bought the sette 270, 3 months ago. I’m so glad to see it up here. It’s loud, but I use it to make 3-4 espressos daily, I haven’t found the sound to be such an issue for me. I have nothing to compare it with though. Was hand grinding for espresso before, this has been a god send. I’m also happy to hear you say that, there is no apparent reason to upgrade from this grinder. As always, love your videos.
I adore my lagom mini. I make espresso for drinking as a long black with splash of oat milk, or oat milk latte, and it works perfectly for that. The form factor is the real winner though. Between that and the wee bambino plus I can have a coffee station that doesn't get in the way in the kitchen. Admittedly I mostly watched this video for soothing background coffee chat.
Literally my exact same set up, and wholeheartedly agree. The quality of shots I can get w/ this combo rivals & exceeds the majority of my local coffee shops. For under $1000 total, really hard to beat.
I used a Sette 270 for over a year. When my wife switched to decaf, I wanted a second grinder and bought a Sette 270wi. WOW! It is so fast to use! I just dump beans into the hopper, and it doses exactly 17 grams every time, directly into my portafilter. I pop a collar on, WDT, tamp, and brew. It also makes dialing in new beans much easier. When done for the morning, I close the hopper, remove it, and dump the extra beans back into the bag. The convenience and quality is well worth it.
Finally! A grinder review for the grinders I actually look at :P putting them all head to head! I backed Timemore and got the early bird special, but before that I was looking at the X54, the Niche, and the mignon. :P This will be fun to see them all stacked against eachother :) Ill update after finishing the video
In times of pc yt comparison reviews, its refreshing to see when James picks a winner for himself and isn't afraid to explain why. His vote may not be always aligned with his audience, as df64 gen 1 came to be one of the most popular grinders out there, but timemore did a great job in making a very competitive and capable grinder.
I have absolutely zero complaints with my Sette 270wi, it's worked flawlessly since I got it a few years ago and I'm so glad I splashed for the weight based dosing. It's loud, sure, but being a straight through grinder I've found it pretty clean to use
I have the same grinder and it has been great. I did have one issue with the motor. They replaced it without question and the replacement motor was much quieter than the original. Grinding into the catch bin is way easier and less messy than direct into the portafilter, and the scale seems as accurate as my coffee scale.
I just bought the Df64 with the sap high uniformity burrs after trying to stick with a virtuoso+ for espresso. Quality of grind from it is impeccable, machine is easy to use. No regrets after going between this and the niche for the last few months as to which to buy. Much appreciated your gen1 review of the df64, it allowed me time for me to make a much better purchase decision!
I've been using the Mignon for almost two years now, and I absolutely adore the quality of the coffee it produces. I chose it specifically for espresso, knowing it excels in that area. However, for our V60 brewing, my husband and I prefer a manual grinder, which adds to our enjoyment of the process. The grinder's quality is truly remarkable, and it complements our coffee corner perfectly. Seeing it featured in the video brought me even more joy.
James, there is a significantly cheaper , but still great option from Eureka. The Eureka zero whcih I am using at home. It still has a belo and has only 55mm burrs. On thne other side it is a modified Eureka Specialita , with a silenzio case and I think it it one of the very solid espresso dedicated grinders. It also gets rid of the annoying curvature of the oro. Maybe it worths trying this one out. I am very happy with this one during 2023, Fast, easy, reliable.
I bought the Niche years ago after watching your review, and I still love it! It has quirks for sure (the grind size indicators are completely wrong) but it looks really nice on the counter, it is very quiet (for a grinder) and the consistency of the coffee that comes out of it is excellent. A belated thank you for that review/recommendation, James 🙏
@@OTNCBC When I am doing pour over I often set the grind size indicator in the region where the hinge of the "lid" is. And for espresso I set it on the letter "e" of the word "fine". Of course it all the depends on the individual coffees... hope that helps.
I've been using modified bunn bulk grinder and Sette 270 for ages and it works fine for me. I usually have some kind of ear bud or headphone on me so the noise doesn't really bother me at all. Good thing about Sette 270 is hands down their customer service 100%. My gearbox/motor started to malfunction and they actually sent me a new parts for free of charge, along with great tutorial on how to change them.
To reduce retention with the Lagom Mini and minimize that waiting game, I've found that removing the top, and lightly tapping with your palm accomplishes the bellow function. I think most hands have a large enough palm given the grinder's size to create the air seal to push air through when tapping. Hope this helps!
they make aftermarket 3D printed bellows specifically for the lagom mini, and if you don't hate bellows like James does, they're a lifechanging attachment.
I just pick it up and blow on it, and make sure I don’t stick my tongue out so it doesn’t get caught in the burs, very little grinds actually come out though, I’m not sure why I still do this.
Two weeks ago, I published my Eureka Oro Mignon Single Dose unboxing video on my channel. It has only been used for espresso yet and it works as I expected. The metal slot under the dose container is magnetic. If you do not want to use the dosing container, you can grind coffee directly into the basket by placing the portafilter on the metal slot. After pumping the bellows, retention is close to zero. This was a great comparison video, thanks James! 🙌
I habe been using a Timemore grinder for over a year now, although it's not the espresso version 064S, but the 064. I grind for Mokka Pot, Filter and French Press. The coffee is delicious, the footprint is small, it works reliably, it cost me und $250 through Kickstarter, I find it very easy to work with any the best thing? NO RETENTION. I've never had a grinder that I had to clean so little. I consistently get out what I put in, no problems with static, and that twisty knocky thing just sparks joy. 😊 I love that grinder very much.
Super happy James is happy with the Timemore too. You never know. It is the optimal size for a home grinder, and is the perfect companion for a color matched Fellows kettle. It’s quiet and quick enough. The knocker works and the clack is assuring. A squirt of RDT ensures zero retention and static. Yeah the hopper can be better but using a brush to herd the beans into the chute works. It’s great for V60 and espresso. If I want more clarity I’ll just whip out the 1zpresso hand grinder. It’s a keeper and endgame until it quits.
I have had my sette 270 for two years now and I still love it. The only downside is the sound of a starting yet engine every time when you want a coffee. But i can live with it.
The Varia VS3 would have been a great addition to this lineup. A separate video on the DF64V would be fantastic! It’s a killer grinder… Stellar video as usual though.🤙🏻
Agreed. It's really disappointing that it wasn't included when all the reviews for the new generation are so favorable and the pricing is so competitive.
I agree the Varia deserved to be there but it might have been UK availability. The DF64V on other hand is too expensive. If the 064 is available, the prone to stall DF64V is made almost irrelevant. I concede that pricing can vary wildly. The 64v is 3/4 of the 064 in where I was situated, which made it worth it.
Valuable Friday video for us peasants. I have the Sette, only complaint is that it's WAY too loud. I also had no clue Baratza was bought out by Breville. This doesn't make me happy.
I like my 270wi... added a pice of acoustic fome behind it and it sits close to my espresso machine so for me it is not quite but better... Hope Bevel leaves it alone
Breville purchased Baratza in 2020. Since then, they have used Baratza conical burrs in the new Impress lineup of machines and they still ha e fantastic customer service. I have a second hand Baratza Forte that had a lot wrong with it (touchscreen had dead zones, burr carrier was messed up, etc.). But, for $112 they repaired/replaced everything except the burrs themselves. So far, Breville has been doing some smart things in regards to Baratza.
For me, having the messy DF64 Gen 1. I still love it, I usually grind 2 pour overs and 2 espresso every day and I can't complain how happy I'm with it. Even with the belows and no Ionazer I love how fast it grinds and how consistent my coffee is.
Really enjoyed the deep dive into the grinders. As an owner of an old Eureka Mignon, I agree with the frustrations regarding grind adjustment, but that aside, a solid grinder which I purchased second hand for very little money. if I could buy another for the same price, I certainly would & just use each one for different roasts.
I’ve had a Niche for a few years now, still going strong! I have also noticed though that it does produce a decent amount of fines, especially when grinding for filter coffee. I’ve also had the same experience with the coarseness setting for filter coffee sort of being “off the charts” or past the grind setting markings.
I also have had a Niche for a while and all these years I've been grinding filter on the fine end of its range...well, my most common filter is Aeropress which isn't as sensitive but still...
I found the fines issue tough with affordable grinders. I hd several Wilfas which were worse. With the Niche I used to slowly load the dose bit by bit which made a difference but these days I just adapt my pourover technique to fines, zero agitation works well.
used the Sette daily for many years. great consistent drip & espresso grindsYes, its definitely LOUD first thing in the morning. I've replaced the gear drive twice at no cost so customer service from Baratza is top-shelf.
Coffee making has been such a joy since I got my 064S , especially for *ONLY* £270 at early bird price, upgrading from a hand grinder. The wait was definitely worth it 😁
Using one of your previous reviews I bought a Baratza Sette 270. My expresso is now of a much elevated quality. I now get a great crema funnel on extraction every time using my trusty ancient Rancilio Silvia using the 20 seconds after the heating light goes off method. Very happy with my choice. I make expresso at lunchtime ( retired ) so the noise is not an issue for me. When ginding direct into the portafilter it does tend to throw the grind out at speed and make a little mess, but fixed that problem with the addition of an aluminium dosing ring funnel.
Another that would have been great for this comparison would have been the Varia VS3 (2nd Gen). Owned it for a couple months now, and loving the results. A huge step up from my Barista Pro built in grinder
@@amitmargalit4551 VS3 seems way faster than Lagom Mini and got 38mm burrs i think vs. 48mm for the Lagom so worth a comparison I guess Burr size is almost my only concern about VS3 I’m afraid of espresso light roast with it And I’m not really fan of the lagom mini for reason James pointed out (grinding time, dialing, and I’m not really fan of global design)
I love that you are a nitpicker. Nitpicking is great in that on the outset, we place less credence to the points made under this categorical heading and, not least of all, because it allows me to nitpick a bit here. My "A, Number One" nitpick is that, after all we go through (those of us who can't help ourselves) to appreciate coffee in its finest form, we grind our coffee over yesterday's (and "yesterday-weeks") rancid coffee fines/dust that is "electrostatically" hanging out on our coffee burrs. "We" do that because the burr accessibility is not on the "must have" list in the design conference room. But it should be. I once had a "throw away" coffee grinder that was so simple to open the grind chamber that I brushed/vacuumed away those fines nearly every time I used it. Ease of accessibility and standardization of burr sets was mentioned in this review and is number one on the purchase of any grinder to sit on my kitchen counter. I/we appreciate any comments you have. . . Thanks in advance.
I had a Sette 270Wi for a couple of years, but I mostly make pourovers, and found that it produced too many fines, to the point that the filter would get clogged and the brew would take forever. Plus it was a pain to keep clean - coffee dust got into every nook and cranny and it was annoying to take apart. On the plus side, Baratza customer service was a pleasure to deal with. I had to send the grinder back to them for repair and they updated the electronics to turn it from a 270W to 270Wi for free. (I should note that Baratza does not recommend using the 270Wi as a single dose grinder - something about having a full hopper helping with it dialing in the weight calculation.) I sold the Sette after getting a Niche, which I liked quite well. It makes great expresso, but it also produces a lot of fines (it's really easy to clean, though). I still wanted something for my daily pourovers, so I got a Lagom P64 with unimodal burrs, which is outside the price range of James' review. It produces very few fines compared to the Sette and the Niche (it depends on the coffee), but it's not as easy to get into and clean as the Niche, unfortunately. However, I love the coffee I make with it even though it's overkill for pourover.
The best upgrade for any DF64 owners (I have the original) is to 3D print a holder for the grind cup that angles the cup and move it closer to the nozzle. I only get static and mess when grinding coarse, for daily espresso it works flawlessly and cost very little!
I've changed the declumper to a thinner foil type one and now it doesn't need the bellows and is much less messy. , that would be my no1 recommendation
I picked up an old Gaggia MD75 in a second hand market for 25 Euros. Spent a day tinkering, cleaning and it works perfectly. It's at least 40 years old but it is solid cast iron and weighs a ton. My coffee has never been better.
I have a Sette 270 and one nice thing is that it does have an optional burr for pour-over that is a noticeable improvement over the stock espresso burr for that purpose. I have also noticed a much improved experience with the pour-over burr or refilling my Nespresso pods. The Nespresso (used at the office) no longer clogs or is too coarse and thin and it runs my home roasted (Ambex 2kg roaster) coffee at a good speed with excellent results.
James, one huge pro for me as a Sette owner is the ability to repair the device, as Baratza sells almost every component for it on their website. If you are trying to reduce ewaste this is a huge pro. I had mine die on me due to a bad board a year ago and I couldn’t figure out the issue, sent it in and they fixed it up and mailed it back to me in roughly 2 weeks time for significantly less than a new grinder. I also am not a fan of the noise, but I can deal with it for that kind of repairability.
I've been using my sculptor 64s for a little over a week and the hopper can definitely be annoying. Pouring the dose in a prolonged way is pretty good at cobatting that. I'm fully enamored with everything else about it 😊
What I really like about my lagom mini grinder is that, although it is a bit too heavy to travel with, but its power adapter is 100-220v! This means wherever you go around the world, and you have a universal plug adapter, you plug it in and there's delicious coffee! As an expat moving from north America to Asia to Europe, my lagom mini has been there the whole journey, and I look forward to take it with me to my next continent :)
First off, I think I can speak for most viewers in saying that the new technology you’ve brought to reviews such as the particle size analyzer and more objective sounds testing are fantastic and exactly what we are looking for! Second, I owned the DF64 Gen 2 for a very brief period and it had a myriad of problems. I’m making a video of my own to summarize them, because I think most reviewers have tried the original DF64 and are a bit blinded by the improvements they made on the new machine. I’ve never tried the original, and therefore the gen 2 was not an improvement in any way for me, it was just a decent grinder in some ways that still had several problems. In the weird Canadian market, I was able to get an Ode gen 2 for my workhorse filter grinder and a Varia VS3 gen 2 for an espresso grinder that makes 1-2 espresso a day for the cost of a DF64 gen 2. I’m now very happy with both my filter and espresso, I feel no need to upgrade my burrs in the near future, and my mornings are a lot more peaceful (dang that DF64 gen 2 was loud!)
@@hugotendam5349 nothing wrong with having the right tool for the job if you can afford it both monetarily and physically haha. Though I personally agree it is a bit odd 😜
The df64 gen 2 improvementa are embarassing. Silly dial indicator, dosong cup that rattles in the forks, bellows that always makes a huge counter mess, that horizontal flat burr design will always retain alot more coffee in its chamber vs vertical mounts. Yea the plasma generator helps very slighty but damn i still get huge buildup in the chute regardless of declumper design or no declumper at all
@@im_Spade_ true true. I have many BBQ's too so I am a bit of a Hypocrite in this case. I am trying to find out what motivates people to buy grinders. Isn't there one that does it all?
@@hugotendam5349 haha yes I also thought it was silly to own two grinders each for a specific purpose when there are more and more solid all-purpose grinders on the market. What sold me was the cost. I could make an argument that it’s annoying to switch back and forth since I make both everyday, but that really isn’t enough to justify two grinders. What sold me was that I could get way better filter coffee and espresso that was on par and not have the annoyance of one grinder, all for the original cost I was willing to pay for one grinder. And, it certainly is one of my main hobbies haha.
Hi James, thank you so much for you work, I think this video was eagerly awaited by the community ! I actually have the Timemore 064S and would add 2 additionnal drawbacks : 1) I read several feedbacks from other users who highly recommend seasoning the burrs with several kg of coffee (around 7kg) to be able to use it to its full potential. I don't know how relevant this is but this is something to keep in mind 2) this machine is a real pain to open and dismantle to clean the burrs... It takes me 10min to do it everytime because you have to unscrew several tiny allen screws... I don't want to clean it anymore. I tried to align the burrs before using it as well but the process was too annoying so I gave up But still, this is a very capable machine and I am happy with the workflow and the taste result. It is small so it will be a great companion to a Delonghi Dedica EC machine. You can do very good expresso coffee with this setup for less than 700€ (coffee machine + electrical grinder). Overall a good choice ! I hesitated between the Timemore Sculptor and DF64 but this one is too noisy to my opinion and I am not a fan of bellows either.
7:00 James, Hot start isn't necessary because the pop shield only allows propably 1-2 beans to pass thru it when stationary, so it wont matter. Without the shield it would indeed matter but thats not the case here :)
I just did a little test out of interest. Timed it used normally and then I pushed a matchstick in the safety button so I could use it with the lid open and hot started it. It was exactly the same amount of time to grind 18gr either way. So you are probably right.
Was about to buy one of the other grinders, waited thought about it, heard about Timemore´s new grinders, did some amateur coffee maths and ended up backing Timemore´s 78s. I´m super happy I got it, a real gem. Glad you like the 64s. I uprgaded from a Porlex hand grinder, although I tried several known grinders from friends, I wasn´t completely happy with them. The 78s seemed like the ultimate move🤷♂
Would be very interested in hearing your thoughts about the Fellow Opus. At $195 (and often on sale), it promises great value, looks great, and could be a bridge between entry and mid-level for many people. As always, thanks for the great videos!
Hi James, great vid! 2 years with my Eureka and I love it. Worth mentioning that you can get it in white, black, or chrome (which I have) which looks fantastic next to my stainless ECM machine and the grinder feels solid and premium. I don't have issues with changing to filter as I've created a process for going to and fro but the numbers and markings on the grind dial are beginning to fade so I am now cautious with changing it. The sound is also very pleasant and great to see it comparably nicer than the others in this video. I wasn't aware of the incompatibility of the burrs which is a shame but I hadn't considered an upgrade. Another small annoyance I have is the button being on the right side quite far back, and as my espresso machine sits to the right of my grinder it means I have to squeeze my hand in to turn it on/off, I would much prefer the switch to be on the top. Also worth noting you can take the bellows off and just sit the lid on the hopper if you don't wish to use them!
I've been running a Sette 270 (Wi version, with the scale) and it's been absolutely great. I do grind directly into the portafilter, though, and i've never noticed any clumping. Definitely a very noisy one, though, but made up for that by grinding so quick. I'd rather have 7 seconds of loud than 30 of medium sound :D
I really hate the sound of the Sette 270 in my kitchen 😢😢 would rather wait in peace for a quiet grinder. I'm rarely in a rush to make coffee. And when I am, for example, when serving guests, the noise really gets in the way all the same.
I do agree with most things. The big big advantages for the Sette are no clumping and almost no retention. But the looks and the sound are honestly just really really bad. Pricing was the biggest factor when I bought it three years back. Would buy the Niche now and probably will at some time if there is no new competitor.
@@AppleGameification Very fair! I'm not in a rush either, but the convenience of going from an empty cup to a full cup in a minute flat makes up for it, for me.
I’ve had a La Marzocco Mazzer, which was too bulky and loud, Encore, Breville smart grinder, and finally ended my journey at a Eureka Mignon. LOVE this thing
had the sette for three years now. love it to bits. Very little retention has it pay for itself in coffee not wasted in a little more than a year pulling 2-3 shots a day on weekdays and 4-6 shots on weekends. we got the version that doses on weight, super convenient. Very easy to set presets and on the fly bump it up or down a couple of the tenths of a gram on the fly depending on where our machine is on its temperature cycle. It’s a little noisy granted, but dosing straight into a portafilter is no worry what so ever. The portafilter has never fallen out. It grinds very fluffy and light, no need to faff about chasing clumps with paperclips or spray the beans with water. We keep the beans in the hopper. Super convenient with regards to our somewhat rushed mornings. Only real downside that really can’t be mitigated without disrupting the convenient workflow is that it is messy (static) We keep it on a tray sitting in its own mess during the busy weekdays :)
Spraying really helps the static. I had so much static with some crappy beans that they were all over the place but some better beans somehow created less static 😂
The Df64V in my view is a more direct competitor for the Niche, considering it's price point. Sill a bit cheaper at around 600€ it's a great grinder, though obviously as in most iterations of the DF series, the quirks are definitly there. The motor tends to stall easily on low rpm and the rpm display is always on (which is quite fixable though). However the magnetic chute and the overall build quality are just pretty phenomenal. Definitly deserves a closer look.
Yes, I simply plugged a single port power adapter with a switch between the wall and the DF64V so I can turn it off completely after use. @@charleshennings8144
As always, thank you, James for the level of detail, etc. My only suggestion is to please include “maintenance” of cleaning the grinders. Is it an easy single or double step process for each of these, or do you have many steps (screws, lids, etc.). I think this is important to add to the analysis regarding ease of access. Otherwise, we are blessed with your commitment to bring to the coffee community such an in-depth video, cheers to you!
I love the sound of our Niche waking me up from bed. I immediately start imagining the pleasure of the tasty morning espresso coming in a minute or two… I feel like I will never need another grinder. ❤
Would love to see someone do Kolmogorov-Smirnov tests on those grind size distributions. That might help give a sense for how meaningful the differences are, espeically given the variance we see on the coarser end of the spectrum. I bet you can get a much smoother probability distribution if you aggregate across a bunch of measurements, too.
Something like that would certainly be useful or any kind of idea of error magnitude. I love James and his videos but the experimental research scientist in me is sceptical whenever a few % differences between lines within the noise spread of the data are referred to as significant or large.
Same. I spend a lot of time with this kind of data at work and my first thought was whether we can realistically reject the Null here. I'm guessing that kind of math is a bit beyond the scope of a coffee channel. But if James were to start a coffee science sister channel, I'd be the first subscriber. @@tommangan7
I have a 10yr Eureka, and you are spot on with your grievance about the grind setting dial. I love the flat burr, and the step less feature, but find it frustrating that the general difference in setting between pour over and espresso is more than two full turns of the dial and therefore, is mainly a single purpose (espresso) grinder for me. It also has a timed doser, which is better with a hopper full of beans versus single dose. My go-to V60 Grindr is the Kinu hand grinder
I've been happy with the Niche Zero for espresso. When I initially got it I used it for filter too, though I eventually purchased an Ode as my primary filter coffee grinder and very recently purchased my "end game" grinder, the Lagom P64, for filter and espresso. I'm going to keep the Niche however, I enjoy the sweet, textured and heavy bodied shots it produces especially when grinding dark roasts.
@@Justme28795 The filter coffee with the Niche had a lot of body, but lacked clarity and sweetness. I opted for the ode with SSP MP burrs since that produces some of the cleanest tasting cups of coffee. I think if you are into medium and dark roasts the niche is fine for filter but if you are seeking a filter grinder for light roasts, I would look elsewhere.
I’ve had a Niche Zero for two years and I was surprised to see the comment on going coarser. I pull a 2:1 recipe for espresso in ~30 seconds with a grinder setting of the 3rd-4th circle within the espresso label
I'm surprised he didn't compare the 270Wi. It fits the budget, and is the best grinder I've used for workflow. I had the Niche Zero for 6 months and sold it. The workflow from single dosing to the 270Wi is immeasurably better. Grind consistency is better too, surprisingly. The only downfall is the noise.
![BRASIL vs. URUGUAY [1-1] | RESUMEN | ELIMINATORIAS SUDAMERICANAS | FECHA 12](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/-hWBAuxF1eY/mqdefault.jpg)
Paused the video to thank you for saying these can be end-game grinders for most of us. There’s a lot of pressure to upgrade to the most expensive tool in the espresso world, so that was refreshing to hear.
Same. The wanton consumerism in the coffee world is crazy.
At some point, it becomes more about wanting to have the shiniest toy than about what the device can actually deliver. You see the same thing with other hobbies: audiophiles spending thousands on their set ups, gamers breaking the bank to get the latest rig every generation, or petrol heads buying a sports car based on how fast it is around a circuit when they have no intention of ever racing with it. There's nothing wrong with wanting to own a cool high-tech thing because it's cool and high-tech; pretending that you'll use it to its full capacity and genuinely appreciate the improvement in its output on a day-to-day basis is (for most people) a little lie they tell themselves.
A tip of the hat and well said. I thought exactly the same thing.
Agree 100%
Agreed. The law of diminishing returns is very real in espresso gear
James, thank you for including the sound in this video. It’s so incredibly important and not enough reviewers are adding it to their reviews.
16:23 i laughed out loud and found myself saying "OH MY GOD!" at the Baratza Sette grinder. what a friggin' beast, haha!
incredibly important to you maybe. I seem to be in a minority of people who can get over a few seconds of loud noise before a delicious coffee.
@@h3xag0nal you say that now, but imagine that Lagom Mini RC car noise being on the first things you hear every morning. that's gonna grate on anyone.
@Catheidan that and the Timemore were both harsh with that high-pitched sound.
At work, I deal with engines that are around 116-118 dB, but the frequency they run at will put you to sleep.
The support from Baratza is very slow. I have on this grinder for several years and anytime I have a problem it takes weeks for them to get back to you .
James is going to be unstoppable now with a particle size analyzer in studio
😂😂😂😂
His Power is UNRIVALED. What next?!
@@spospartan-104 electron microscope
I think it would be interesting to correlate coffee taste with particle analysis!
Just you wait until James gets his hands on a particle accelerator next for his coffee testing 😂
I’ve had one of these grinders for 2 years and the coffee industry is so focused on “the next upgrade” or “the end game product” I felt like I just HAD to upgrade. I was looking at the pricey flat burr grinders like they were going make my espresso so much better. After talking to someone who has the same grinder as me and is perfectly satisfied with it and now watching this video I feel a bit like the ungrateful child who always wants more. I’m gonna keep my grinder and be happy about it. Thanks for the video Hoffdaddy.
Hoffdaddy LOL that sent me. But that aside, being satisfied with what you have is hard when the industry is always buzzing about flashy new things. So I think it's commendable that you were able to take a step back and really ask yourself if you needed that upgrade!
I find it hilarious you're subscribed to "Shawn" Ryan. Oddly, I checked and hoped you would have been 🫡
its just a freaking grinder after all. at a certain point, its all in your head.
@@SkyForceOne2Grinder's at least as important as the espresso machine - a fact you must already know if you're watching this video.
It’s marketing. They arent insanely better than one another. People are compulsive buyers especially ones that are OCD about their coffee. What really is going to make your coffee stand out is good fresh roasted coffee.
The fact that James has been publishing so much scientific analysis about coffee *for free* on RUclips for all of us to learn how to make better coffee is a gift. I'm not only referring to this video, but many others he has published in the past. (And his books are a treat too!). Thank you, James! ❤☕
We do all pay for it.
Glazing so bad
Ex-barista here, I had the Sette for years now and I'm fairly satisfied with it for something that is decent for both espresso and filter. I think any coffee equipment will be as good as the skill you put into it at the end of the day, but of course when you have really nice equipment it makes your life easier. When I miss high end gear from my coffee shop life, it's usually because of workflow, not so much how the shots taste.
This is a great video, and I think buying one of these grinders and then investing in skill acquisition could get anyone going a long way before they need to upgrade.
Do you have issues with how loud it is?
Personally, I don't - but I get mindful of it if it's very early in the morning. If your kitchen is not next to bedrooms, or you don't have thin walls with neighbours, I think it's fine. I am used to louder grinders and this doesn't bother me. It's hard to say how much it'd bother you, but it's definitely audible and there are quieter options on the market. Hope this helps 😊
I would like to add that the sette's internals are completely made of plastic and it breaks quite often. I would avoid it.
Mine is 4 years old now and had zero issues so far, though I could just be lucky (I also do regular maintenance). I grind between 30-50g a day, which isn't that much I guess.
What's your home set-up now?
James's gear comparison videos are rare but they are quite a joy to watch!
And I hope a filter one will come out soon!
How to spot another gear head :)
Doesn't matter the hobby we all love the gear !! :D
@@GriuGriu64 nor the knockers, wondering what he likes then
3 years with my Niche Zero and it’s never missed a beat. Gives me everything I need for espresso, great work flow, and I LOVE the noise it makes.
Recently got an 1zpresso hand grinder for filter and travel.
Every new grinder that comes out always gets my interest and promises to be the one for me, but reviews like this help it feel like there’ll always be something missing. Happy to call my current set up end-game for me. Thanks James!
I agree! It's never missed a beat. I love it too. I also have a 1zpresso for filter, but I bit the bullet and bought a 078 for filter. 😅
Love my niche and need no other
It's definitely the best sounding grinder in this video
Because Niche is a conical bur and doesn't require high rpm it doesn't need to be started prior grinding and the work flow is not matched by the other grinders and if you like dark roasts for espresso and latte or caps then you need look no more, also the quiet low pitched grinding I love this grinder
im exactly the same! v happy with my 1zpresso ZP6 for filter :) and my little niche chilling at home and doing my espressos well
I've had Lagom Mini for over a year. We make 2-3 espressos a day with it and 1-2 pour overs. Our lattes are better than local coffee shop, no complaints. Pour overs are great. As is any other filter coffee we've made. The BIGGEST pro for this is that my wife really likes the size and design AND she she has no issues using it.
Wife's approval is the most important pro!!
How are you doing yr milk for yr lattes?
@@grady60 you can install an optional steam wand to the grinder. That way you can steam milk for your lattes if your espresso machine can’t.
I have an issue with it's name. Lagom is a Swedish word for "just the right amount" and then they go and slap "mini" onto it which just doesn't work, you can't have a miniature variation of something that is supposed to be lagom.
Does yours have numbers? The lack of numbers or clear indication is really odd.
Just got the DF64 gen2. Excellent build quality. Nowhere near as loud as I was anticipating from RUclips reviews. I was wishing for this video ~3 weeks ago when I placed my order. Your detailed analysis is appreciated!
Is it good for both filter and espresso?
@@penleypepsi9510 It's held up, has the range, and obviously better than the built-in grinder on my Breville Barista Express. That said, I've been doing aeropress more than filter with it
@@penleypepsi9510yes
I really want the DF64 gen 2, but it seems like it screams like a banshee!
Is there a way to quiet it down?
I make both filter and espresso with my Sette 270 every day. The ability to switch back and forth easily is important to me and the Sette has consistently yielded excellent results.
Yeah. It might be loud, it might be plasticky, but it makes phenomenal coffee :)
I have the Sette too. Using it mostly for espresso the last 3 years with no issues at all. I’m just getting into V60 pour over. Can I ask what grind range you find good for filter - V60 and auto drip machine?
I've had a sette for 9 months and love it for espresso. I read once online it was bad for filter so I just hand grind. What's your filter/espresso setting? I'm at 17C for espresso.
I have Sette 270 Wi with the built-in scale. I think the weighting makes it great and very easy to use with pretty consistent doses ^^ I actually bought Wilfa Uniform for filter coffee because of the hopper that makes it too much a chore to change from espresso to filter and back :D
It will be hard to compare machines, I have a sette 270 as well and the exact settings you use for espresso grind will depend on the burrs and how many shims you have put under the burr@@rocketsfancheif. I use ~6D currently for my espresso but I have one of the shims installed.
I've had my Niche for over a year now.
I paid ~800€ for it with taxes and haven't really regretted buying it even for a second.
Makes excellent filter coffee and superb espresso.
It's my first real espresso grinder and will probably be my last too.
It's built like it's going to last a lifetime and it is highly serviceable.
I’ve had mine for roughly the same amount of time and feel similarly. Mine has been on espresso duty exclusively until recently, and I’ve been happy with the filter results, too.
To be honest, I wonder how much more I could get from a higher end grinder - right now I think the limiting factor may actually be my palate. For now, I’ll continue working to develop that, along with my technique.
I’ve had my Sette 270 for a year now and I’ve loved it. Glad to see it get such high praise here. No buyers remorse for me!
Same here, I bought mine used and have had it for a couple months now and it's amazing. Sound doesn't bother me at all, my milk steamer louder anyway 😂
I love mine too, it's the endgame for me honestly. I knew before clicking on the video that James would hate the noise. It is definitely loud 😆
Have you tried this with filter coffee? I watched a review where someone said it doesn't male a good filter coffee, is this true?
I actually use the Sette 30 for espresso/filter, I've been VERY happy with it. For espresso I've got my Flair, so I can adjust a lot of factors (to make up for the loss of grinder setting control). For filter I use immersion-style devices like the Aeropress and French press.
Have used the Eureka Mignon Oro Single Dose grinder for between 3 and 6 espressos every day for just over a year. It is built like a tank, sounds quality and volume is good and it’s so quick that the noise lasts for less time. Don’t use it for filter (have a Kinu M47 for V60/Aeropress) but love it for espresso.
How are you dealing with the bellowing? Does it blow fines everywhere?
@@sinosoul I have the older Specialita and bought custom-made bellows for it. It's just nice to know you don't have stale coffee from yesterday it.
James is a legit reviewer , so clear and friendly
He's one of the most clear and friendly people I've ever seen lol
Also noteworthy is how despite having a lot of knowledge, experience and opinions in the filed he still remains a curious and open-minded person who always strives for more and respects the opinions of others.
I have been using my Sette for a year now. It works for both espresso & pour overs and is clean operating with very low retention. There is nothing in its price range comparable. In line ups like this the Sette gets short shrift because less to discuss. The worst thing to point out is the sound, but the speed makes it last only10 seconds at a time. This is a solid performer at an exceptional price. Thank you for the plethora of content this month, it is like getting extra presents.
sorry to correct you, but retention is typically >= .7 grams, which for e.g. a classic standard equals 10%.
i'm still using it myself (always dumping the first gramm), but it just baffles me how some people can complain over tiny things like particle distribution while others dismiss facts in the (huge) ten percent range.
@@ThePoisonousFish "classic stander" is 7g in?
A 40 min Hoffmiester video on my Friday afternoon, I must have been good this year, Christmas came early, let me get a fresh brew and relax 🔥☕️
Hoffmeister
Yes! I love the longer format
I've been using a Mignon Zero at home for a few months now, and honestly very happy with it. I did buy it exclusively for espresso, and I'm not the kind of person that wants to think about upgrading the parts on my machine. I've enjoyed that it's a quiet, clean, and consistent machine. If you don't want to spend any time thinking about your espresso grinder, it's a great (if boring) choice.
Did you choose the zero cause it was cheaper than the specialitta? Or cause you didn’t want the digital screen?
I've had my DF64 Gen 2 for about 3 months and paid about $382 (I'm guessing some promo).
I'm very happy with it. I make filter coffee everyday and espresso maybe 4 days/week. Very easy to dial in and to clean the burrs. I was between that and the Niche Zero, but for the price it was a no-brainer for me.
I was just waiting for James' approval of that grinder lol.
I'm about to buy it. The only thing holding me back is the sound...is it that loud?
@@marck.5116 It’s nowhere near to being quiet. Unfortunately I don’t own another grinder to compare them. But it’s not a noisy-deal breaker to me.
@@marck.5116 I have a Gen 2. It is loudish but the sound itself grates more than the level of sound. It's smooth and quiet when running without beans. Putting the beans causes the grating. 6-8 seconds worth typically. I will/would live with it, as in terms of overall value for money, it's great.
I personally love my DF64 (v4 I believe). I actually 'sidegraded' from a Eureka Mignon Specialita and it was the best coffee decision I ever made. While it is on the louder side of things while grinding, it doesn't matter much to me. Cleaning it (burrs) doesn't really require taking it apart (which is tooless anyways) and dialing works very well. It does get messier with larger particles (at filter level) but nothing a quick wipe won't manage. For the price paid, it's a no brainer (ordered directly from df64coffee or similar, ships from Singapour I believe ?)
Used the Baratza Sette 270 for ages and very happy with it. One lesser mentioned feature is that the Aeropress fits nicely under it. So if you are a big Aeropress user as I am you can grind directly into it.
Similar to others the lack of retention and such are also attractive. I like the design where the beans drop straight through, not having to be shunted around into the chute. Yeah, it could be quieter but doesn't especially bother me (and I'm a bit noise sensitive.)
I'm going to try starting the motor before dropping the beans through to see if it makes any difference. Always learning something news from James' videos.
I very much agree, I didn't know that it actually could fit an aeropress under it. The sound I feel my be louder but it's a better quality sound. Others has a high pitched Ringing, where the sette had a deeper vibration sound. Making it (in my opinion) a much better option
I've had the Sette 270 for years and I find its flexibility to be an underrated asset. When I want to be a coffee nerd, it has the continuously adjustable dial and low retention, but when it's Monday morning and I just want coffee now, the big hopper and very fast grind speed make my life noticeably better. If you're like me and have a partner who drinks mostly filter and is not as picky about freshness, the big bucket and fast speed are very convenient for pre-grinding 20 doses of filter for the partner, so that I only have to dial in my espresso grind once every two weeks instead of every day.
It seems to me, if I were a grinder manufacturer, that I would use James as a testing consultant on the prototype before scaling to manufacture. He certainly appears better at critiquing features per a "real world" consumer perspective than the engineers producing product models. Reminds me of Dyson which never actually uses the innovative product the way it is supposed to work.
This must cost some
Frankly I bet they probably don't wanna budget for him. I bet he makes more off the content he makes on fresh reviews than manufacturers want to pay him.
There is a large difference between buying a reviewer and consultant.
Pretty sure he was a consultant on the Simonelli Mythos
I love James's rants - he sounds like the voice inside my head whenever I use any form of technology, please never stop being James James ❤
This can only mean that we may be getting a revamp for: best espresso grinder under £1500, best espresso machine under £500 and best espresso machine under £1500 👀
One can hope!
Dude actually is out of creative subject. Last station of coffee content train. 😂
@@DaddyMakesCoffeenew grinders come out every year. It makes sense to revisit lists like these
@@DaddyMakesCoffee also the home coffee market is much more sophisticated compared to when those videos originally came out.
I wouldn’t be surprised if we saw product comparison videos for grinders and espresso machines around the £3500 mark
Come on! Tones of same product reviews. Every year new product? Or revised one. Soon we will find out.
My Mignon is 5 years old, heavily used, original burrs, never missed a beat, easy and super-accurate geared adjustment for grind variation, bean to bean variation etc
I only make espresso.
It works for me definitely.
I have the sette 270 Wi model, and what I love is that I don't have to worry about using a scale, especially because my machine has volumetric dosing. I agree that the build and sound is terrible, also the lid on mine will not stay on. Oh, and the sette has near zero retention which was also a big feature to me.
I appreciate James’s comments about the Eureka grinder. I chose a Mignon for my espresso grinder, and fully concur with the UI issues; the stepless grind adjustment is not useful for multiple brew methods but awesome for dialing in one specific method.
I find that Eureka grinders seem to be lost in the online conversation about the newest and hottest grinders, when they are solid, well built, refined performers who do their job without too much fuss.
I would actually like another adjustment wheel on my mignon - switching between two different beans can be a bit frustrating since the small wheel sits quite high above the indicator mark... switching back and forth between two espresso settings is always down to some readjusting.
I also found the alignment of the two burrs to be a bit of a weak spot. It can be quite a bit of work to get the two burrs perfectly leveled.
love the grinder but I probably would go for another option now.
@@manuelsigrist3789which one would you go for? I would like to switch between decaf and normal beans easily. Can't get the niche unfortunately though...
There’s a ton of chatter about the mignon specialitta on Reddit etc. tons of people modding it into basically a oro. The oro is just too expensive for what it is.
I have been rocking the Eureka Mignon Specialitta for 4 years and it still produces great results. I bought a 3d printed single dose modification, but hardly ever use it. For travel purposes my old Commandante C40 still does a great job. I feel no need to ever upgrade with this setup.
DF 64 Gen 2 for me. It now comes with an extra metal attachment to the top of the cup which doubles as a great collar and makes the grinding and prep a lot less messier. Very happy with this grinder.
Wish this was pointed out in the video. The attachment can also be used on a 58mm portafilter.
My wife asked me to get a less noisy grinder. I started to look into that but soon I fell into the black hole of grinders. After weeks of researching I was about to pull the trigger on a big helios when my coffee gear dealer help me snap out of it. I walked out with a Eureka Mignon and never looked back.
I have had the Eureka for years, and it can grind, but it CANNOT grind, and then try a different coffee dialed in or even go back to your old setting. IT SUCKS, and wastes coffee. If you stick to theSAME coffee it is great, but I like trying different beans, and its a NIGHTMARE. There is ZERO indication as the wheel needs to spin multiple times to adjust. If you plan on doing any filter then back to espresso...FORGET IT! SO I am getting rid of mine.
I've used the Eureka Mignon Specialita for years & want for nothing. It's easy to dial in, quiet, built very well, fast, easy to clean, very low retention, cheap, & makes great coffee. I don't change burrs & only drink espresso, so it's never been a problem.
U can put ssp burs in it custom made
Also very happy with my Specialità
@@GabrielParadelo its fine i got the newer model i never opened it tho
Came here to say the same. Very happy with it as and espresso-only, non single-dose grinder (I'm living "that life" according to JH). It's fast, quiet, robust and looks/feels really nice. I do think it's got the same issue with SSP burrs not being available though... Lance did a video with some other burr options I think.
@@bogdanadzic9305where can you get these burrs for the specialita?
Thanks for another great comparison video!
I have owned a Baratza Sette for a few years now, and I am very happy with it. Yes, it is very noisy and it does feel a bit more plasticky than some other grinders BUT it is plenty strong and has yet to show a sign of weakening.
For those who want to buy the Baratza Sette, something worth mentioning: you can buy the Sette 30 - which lacks micro adjustment vs the 270 - and then upgrade the burr for about 70€ and save 30€ in the process. The sette 30 has only one time setting (vs 3 for the Sette 270) but I don't think that is a great feature anyhow, the front of the machine is neater and les cumbersome with less buttons anyhow.
Is is quieter?
That is, is the Sette 30 more quiet than the 270?
@@monicas3690 No, it is the same body & motor, so just as loud :)
James, thank you for highlighting/confirming the frustrations that the Eureka line has in switching between filter and espresso.
I hate my Eureka!!
I have the DF64 V5. I am using it with the round declumper thing, a stainless steel cup and angled holder. Works like a charm. No mess and not a lot of static. I think the DF64 is still the best bang for your buck grinder.
I have a Sette 270Wi, which doses by weight, and I love it. It's noisy as hell, but it also turns out that I'm an incredibly deep sleeper and even that thing in the kitchen didn't really bother me. I love that I can set the weight and forget about weighing my beans. I don't really see the problem with the buttons and the display, I think it has a charming, retro look to it that it does pull off quite well. I did once manage to get it stuck after I took out the burr and it refused to go back in, so I had to spend about $100 for repair....but I do love it as an owner.
I have a Sette for 5 years or so now and am still very happy with it.
Yes, it is like starting a jet engine, but that never bothered me that much.
What I really like is the easy if cleaning and that is has almost zero retentions, because of the open burr.
It also ahs been very easy to 3D print a single dose hopper :)
And the speed of the Sette is insanely fast.
Is it similar to the Encore ESP? It’s the one I’m planning to get so I hope the taste review of the Sette is similar. I think they have the same or at least very similar burrs.
@@Abdullah-cj2mh From the pictures it seems based on the Sette 30, the "little Sister" of the sette 270 (which has two rings to adjust grind size)
I would expect the Encore ESP to taste very similar to the Sette 30, but I hevn't tried the 30, just the 270, where you have much fienr control over the grindsize, due to the non-setpped fine adjustment ring.
I backed early and picked up the Timemore 078 for under £500. One minor UX issue is that it's not super easy to see exactly what grind setting you're on at the fine end, especially of your coffee corner isn't well lit. I've used a chalk pen to more clearly mark the lines and it makes a huge difference. Definitely an end-game grinder for me until life circumstances dramatically change.
df64 gen 2 comes with cup extender/dosing ring which makes the cup closer to the exit chute so it does not make any mess when you use the bellows
Good to know. I'm pretty interested in that one as my first electric grinder. I've been using a hand grinder by 1ZPRESSO for over a year now
1zpresso k ultra tasted 99.9 % of the time better than my previois df64 and df83!!!
I always use the extender ring and pump with the bellows on the DF64 before all the coffee has been ground, so hardly any coffee is spilt.
Yep. Also, if you press with the correct pressure, you can get the bellows to not make a mess even without the ring. But the ring makes everything better.
Also for what it's worth, it looks REALLY good in white, as opposed to the cheaper looking black that seems to be the standard.
I’ve been using the niche zero for almost 2 years now based off the recommendation in the original video however many years ago and have loved it. Overtime you learn to master some of the little quirks that now almost never hinder my workflow. The most important I found was labeling the ring for my favorite coffees and brew methods. V2 would be cool to have those programmable and then obviously the motor run while the hopper is open.
I got the Timemore 078s during kickstarter for what is now the list price of the 064s, and I couldn't be happier. Great grinder.
Nice! Still waiting on mine to ship. Really looking forward to it.
Same, I just got mine a week ago and my light roast pour overs have never been brighter and tastier. It also check off all the marks in aesthetics for me so I'm glad James approves as well haha
Love mine too. Unbelievable grinder.
Waiting on my 078 🥹😭
ive read/seen videos suggesting that the espresso range is very tight and that a small turn of the dial can change the output time by quite a bit (like, 1 tick = 10 seconds). Has this been your finding?
I have had a Gen 1 DF64 for well over a year now. I am now using 4 sprits of water after weighing my beans and am very satisfied with the limited to no retention and little static I get with this machine using this method. The new DF64 seems much improved but I don’t think I can justify upgrading. The espresso I am getting is great. I have a Bezzera Aria which paired up well with this grinder for my purposes. Thanks for your channel. I always enjoy the content.
I'm glad you touched on sound quality and quantity. Really reinforced my decision to get the Niche. I don't want to end up hating any part of my workflow and a shrill and loud grinder would definitely detract from it
I bought the sette 270, 3 months ago. I’m so glad to see it up here. It’s loud, but I use it to make 3-4 espressos daily, I haven’t found the sound to be such an issue for me. I have nothing to compare it with though. Was hand grinding for espresso before, this has been a god send. I’m also happy to hear you say that, there is no apparent reason to upgrade from this grinder. As always, love your videos.
I adore my lagom mini. I make espresso for drinking as a long black with splash of oat milk, or oat milk latte, and it works perfectly for that. The form factor is the real winner though. Between that and the wee bambino plus I can have a coffee station that doesn't get in the way in the kitchen. Admittedly I mostly watched this video for soothing background coffee chat.
Literally my exact same set up, and wholeheartedly agree. The quality of shots I can get w/ this combo rivals & exceeds the majority of my local coffee shops. For under $1000 total, really hard to beat.
It looks so cool !
I used a Sette 270 for over a year. When my wife switched to decaf, I wanted a second grinder and bought a Sette 270wi. WOW! It is so fast to use! I just dump beans into the hopper, and it doses exactly 17 grams every time, directly into my portafilter. I pop a collar on, WDT, tamp, and brew. It also makes dialing in new beans much easier. When done for the morning, I close the hopper, remove it, and dump the extra beans back into the bag. The convenience and quality is well worth it.
Finally! A grinder review for the grinders I actually look at :P putting them all head to head!
I backed Timemore and got the early bird special, but before that I was looking at the X54, the Niche, and the mignon. :P
This will be fun to see them all stacked against eachother :) Ill update after finishing the video
In times of pc yt comparison reviews, its refreshing to see when James picks a winner for himself and isn't afraid to explain why. His vote may not be always aligned with his audience, as df64 gen 1 came to be one of the most popular grinders out there, but timemore did a great job in making a very competitive and capable grinder.
I have absolutely zero complaints with my Sette 270wi, it's worked flawlessly since I got it a few years ago and I'm so glad I splashed for the weight based dosing. It's loud, sure, but being a straight through grinder I've found it pretty clean to use
I have the same grinder and it has been great. I did have one issue with the motor. They replaced it without question and the replacement motor was much quieter than the original. Grinding into the catch bin is way easier and less messy than direct into the portafilter, and the scale seems as accurate as my coffee scale.
I love the data analysis and the particle size analysis you do here. The technical parts are the best parts of life.
I just bought the Df64 with the sap high uniformity burrs after trying to stick with a virtuoso+ for espresso. Quality of grind from it is impeccable, machine is easy to use. No regrets after going between this and the niche for the last few months as to which to buy. Much appreciated your gen1 review of the df64, it allowed me time for me to make a much better purchase decision!
I've been using the Mignon for almost two years now, and I absolutely adore the quality of the coffee it produces. I chose it specifically for espresso, knowing it excels in that area. However, for our V60 brewing, my husband and I prefer a manual grinder, which adds to our enjoyment of the process.
The grinder's quality is truly remarkable, and it complements our coffee corner perfectly. Seeing it featured in the video brought me even more joy.
James, there is a significantly cheaper , but still great option from Eureka. The Eureka zero whcih I am using at home. It still has a belo and has only 55mm burrs. On thne other side it is a modified Eureka Specialita , with a silenzio case and I think it it one of the very solid espresso dedicated grinders. It also gets rid of the annoying curvature of the oro. Maybe it worths trying this one out. I am very happy with this one during 2023, Fast, easy, reliable.
Me: watches 40 minute grinder video
Also me: scoops coffee out of my vitamix with a soup spoon
😂 I’ve done as well.. you are not alone. 😅
UNCLEAN
Broh! 😮
😅😅😅😅 real
I bought the Niche years ago after watching your review, and I still love it! It has quirks for sure (the grind size indicators are completely wrong) but it looks really nice on the counter, it is very quiet (for a grinder) and the consistency of the coffee that comes out of it is excellent. A belated thank you for that review/recommendation, James 🙏
Which grind settings work for you for different methods? All the best.
@@OTNCBC When I am doing pour over I often set the grind size indicator in the region where the hinge of the "lid" is.
And for espresso I set it on the letter "e" of the word "fine". Of course it all the depends on the individual coffees... hope that helps.
I've been using modified bunn bulk grinder and Sette 270 for ages and it works fine for me. I usually have some kind of ear bud or headphone on me so the noise doesn't really bother me at all. Good thing about Sette 270 is hands down their customer service 100%. My gearbox/motor started to malfunction and they actually sent me a new parts for free of charge, along with great tutorial on how to change them.
To reduce retention with the Lagom Mini and minimize that waiting game, I've found that removing the top, and lightly tapping with your palm accomplishes the bellow function. I think most hands have a large enough palm given the grinder's size to create the air seal to push air through when tapping. Hope this helps!
they make aftermarket 3D printed bellows specifically for the lagom mini, and if you don't hate bellows like James does, they're a lifechanging attachment.
I just pick it up and blow on it, and make sure I don’t stick my tongue out so it doesn’t get caught in the burs, very little grinds actually come out though, I’m not sure why I still do this.
exactly
super easy and works perfectly
just keep it running and thump it :)
Two weeks ago, I published my Eureka Oro Mignon Single Dose unboxing video on my channel. It has only been used for espresso yet and it works as I expected. The metal slot under the dose container is magnetic. If you do not want to use the dosing container, you can grind coffee directly into the basket by placing the portafilter on the metal slot. After pumping the bellows, retention is close to zero. This was a great comparison video, thanks James! 🙌
Thanks for the shout out James!
An excellent run down as always. Having only experienced 5/7 of these grinders myself it was an interesting watch
I habe been using a Timemore grinder for over a year now, although it's not the espresso version 064S, but the 064. I grind for Mokka Pot, Filter and French Press. The coffee is delicious, the footprint is small, it works reliably, it cost me und $250 through Kickstarter, I find it very easy to work with any the best thing? NO RETENTION. I've never had a grinder that I had to clean so little. I consistently get out what I put in, no problems with static, and that twisty knocky thing just sparks joy. 😊 I love that grinder very much.
James doing a product roundup in a price bracket; like a warm childhood blanket. ❤
Super happy James is happy with the Timemore too. You never know.
It is the optimal size for a home grinder, and is the perfect companion for a color matched Fellows kettle. It’s quiet and quick enough. The knocker works and the clack is assuring. A squirt of RDT ensures zero retention and static. Yeah the hopper can be better but using a brush to herd the beans into the chute works.
It’s great for V60 and espresso. If I want more clarity I’ll just whip out the 1zpresso hand grinder. It’s a keeper and endgame until it quits.
I have had my sette 270 for two years now and I still love it. The only downside is the sound of a starting yet engine every time when you want a coffee. But i can live with it.
I just bought a Lagom Mini to gift my girlfriend this christmas! And after watching your review, I think I made the right choice.
The Varia VS3 would have been a great addition to this lineup. A separate video on the DF64V would be fantastic! It’s a killer grinder…
Stellar video as usual though.🤙🏻
Agree, I also think retention should be talked about for an espresso grinder line-up like this since it heavily changes the dialing in process.
Agreed, if only because I just bought one ;)
Agreed. It's really disappointing that it wasn't included when all the reviews for the new generation are so favorable and the pricing is so competitive.
I agree the Varia deserved to be there but it might have been UK availability. The DF64V on other hand is too expensive. If the 064 is available, the prone to stall DF64V is made almost irrelevant. I concede that pricing can vary wildly. The 64v is 3/4 of the 064 in where I was situated, which made it worth it.
james, we need a PART 2!! lol
with all the ones listed here and under this comment, we ought to have enough machines for one.
Simple, beautiful, quiet, no retention, consistent and with incredibly easy grind adjustments. The NIche Zero is the clear winner for me.
Valuable Friday video for us peasants. I have the Sette, only complaint is that it's WAY too loud. I also had no clue Baratza was bought out by Breville. This doesn't make me happy.
Likewise, i don't like that news. I guess we'll find out where they take the brand.
I like my 270wi... added a pice of acoustic fome behind it and it sits close to my espresso machine so for me it is not quite but better...
Hope Bevel leaves it alone
Breville purchased Baratza in 2020. Since then, they have used Baratza conical burrs in the new Impress lineup of machines and they still ha e fantastic customer service. I have a second hand Baratza Forte that had a lot wrong with it (touchscreen had dead zones, burr carrier was messed up, etc.). But, for $112 they repaired/replaced everything except the burrs themselves. So far, Breville has been doing some smart things in regards to Baratza.
@@Silatas86 Baratza burs are also in the Breville Barista Pro
For me, having the messy DF64 Gen 1. I still love it, I usually grind 2 pour overs and 2 espresso every day and I can't complain how happy I'm with it. Even with the belows and no Ionazer I love how fast it grinds and how consistent my coffee is.
Really enjoyed the deep dive into the grinders. As an owner of an old Eureka Mignon, I agree with the frustrations regarding grind adjustment, but that aside, a solid grinder which I purchased second hand for very little money. if I could buy another for the same price, I certainly would & just use each one for different roasts.
Love my Lagom Mini - crazy good grind and basically no retention, with superb build quality
I’ve had a Niche for a few years now, still going strong! I have also noticed though that it does produce a decent amount of fines, especially when grinding for filter coffee. I’ve also had the same experience with the coarseness setting for filter coffee sort of being “off the charts” or past the grind setting markings.
I also have had a Niche for a while and all these years I've been grinding filter on the fine end of its range...well, my most common filter is Aeropress which isn't as sensitive but still...
I love my Niche, but I've just accepted that it produces too many fines for my pour over filter.
Any recommended grind settings/times for aeropress? @@kevadu
Do you have any specific recommended grind settings that you've found works great?
I found the fines issue tough with affordable grinders. I hd several Wilfas which were worse. With the Niche I used to slowly load the dose bit by bit which made a difference but these days I just adapt my pourover technique to fines, zero agitation works well.
used the Sette daily for many years. great consistent drip & espresso grindsYes, its definitely LOUD first thing in the morning. I've replaced the gear drive twice at no cost so customer service from Baratza is top-shelf.
Coffee making has been such a joy since I got my 064S , especially for *ONLY* £270 at early bird price, upgrading from a hand grinder. The wait was definitely worth it 😁
Using one of your previous reviews I bought a Baratza Sette 270. My expresso is now of a much elevated quality. I now get a great crema funnel on extraction every time using my trusty ancient Rancilio Silvia using the 20 seconds after the heating light goes off method. Very happy with my choice. I make expresso at lunchtime ( retired ) so the noise is not an issue for me. When ginding direct into the portafilter it does tend to throw the grind out at speed and make a little mess, but fixed that problem with the addition of an aluminium dosing ring funnel.
Another that would have been great for this comparison would have been the Varia VS3 (2nd Gen). Owned it for a couple months now, and loving the results. A huge step up from my Barista Pro built in grinder
Totally agree VS3 is in top3 with niche and df64 for me
@@bobololish I was debating Lagom Mini or VS3, so would have been nice to see both being compared by James the Great
I agree, wish he would have added it
The VS3 is too similar to the lagom mini. I don’t think this would bring much to the table
@@amitmargalit4551 VS3 seems way faster than Lagom Mini and got 38mm burrs i think vs. 48mm for the Lagom so worth a comparison I guess
Burr size is almost my only concern about VS3 I’m afraid of espresso light roast with it
And I’m not really fan of the lagom mini for reason James pointed out (grinding time, dialing, and I’m not really fan of global design)
I love that you are a nitpicker. Nitpicking is great in that on the outset, we place less credence to the points made under this categorical heading and, not least of all, because it allows me to nitpick a bit here. My "A, Number One" nitpick is that, after all we go through (those of us who can't help ourselves) to appreciate coffee in its finest form, we grind our coffee over yesterday's (and "yesterday-weeks") rancid coffee fines/dust that is "electrostatically" hanging out on our coffee burrs. "We" do that because the burr accessibility is not on the "must have" list in the design conference room. But it should be. I once had a "throw away" coffee grinder that was so simple to open the grind chamber that I brushed/vacuumed away those fines nearly every time I used it. Ease of accessibility and standardization of burr sets was mentioned in this review and is number one on the purchase of any grinder to sit on my kitchen counter. I/we appreciate any comments you have. . . Thanks in advance.
I had a Sette 270Wi for a couple of years, but I mostly make pourovers, and found that it produced too many fines, to the point that the filter would get clogged and the brew would take forever. Plus it was a pain to keep clean - coffee dust got into every nook and cranny and it was annoying to take apart. On the plus side, Baratza customer service was a pleasure to deal with. I had to send the grinder back to them for repair and they updated the electronics to turn it from a 270W to 270Wi for free. (I should note that Baratza does not recommend using the 270Wi as a single dose grinder - something about having a full hopper helping with it dialing in the weight calculation.)
I sold the Sette after getting a Niche, which I liked quite well. It makes great expresso, but it also produces a lot of fines (it's really easy to clean, though). I still wanted something for my daily pourovers, so I got a Lagom P64 with unimodal burrs, which is outside the price range of James' review. It produces very few fines compared to the Sette and the Niche (it depends on the coffee), but it's not as easy to get into and clean as the Niche, unfortunately. However, I love the coffee I make with it even though it's overkill for pourover.
After spending a month researching, I found it difficult to pick the right option until now. Great info!
The best upgrade for any DF64 owners (I have the original) is to 3D print a holder for the grind cup that angles the cup and move it closer to the nozzle. I only get static and mess when grinding coarse, for daily espresso it works flawlessly and cost very little!
I've changed the declumper to a thinner foil type one and now it doesn't need the bellows and is much less messy. , that would be my no1 recommendation
I picked up an old Gaggia MD75 in a second hand market for 25 Euros. Spent a day tinkering, cleaning and it works perfectly. It's at least 40 years old but it is solid cast iron and weighs a ton. My coffee has never been better.
I have a Sette 270 and one nice thing is that it does have an optional burr for pour-over that is a noticeable improvement over the stock espresso burr for that purpose. I have also noticed a much improved experience with the pour-over burr or refilling my Nespresso pods. The Nespresso (used at the office) no longer clogs or is too coarse and thin and it runs my home roasted (Ambex 2kg roaster) coffee at a good speed with excellent results.
James, one huge pro for me as a Sette owner is the ability to repair the device, as Baratza sells almost every component for it on their website. If you are trying to reduce ewaste this is a huge pro. I had mine die on me due to a bad board a year ago and I couldn’t figure out the issue, sent it in and they fixed it up and mailed it back to me in roughly 2 weeks time for significantly less than a new grinder. I also am not a fan of the noise, but I can deal with it for that kind of repairability.
I've been using my sculptor 64s for a little over a week and the hopper can definitely be annoying. Pouring the dose in a prolonged way is pretty good at cobatting that. I'm fully enamored with everything else about it 😊
What I really like about my lagom mini grinder is that, although it is a bit too heavy to travel with, but its power adapter is 100-220v! This means wherever you go around the world, and you have a universal plug adapter, you plug it in and there's delicious coffee! As an expat moving from north America to Asia to Europe, my lagom mini has been there the whole journey, and I look forward to take it with me to my next continent :)
First off, I think I can speak for most viewers in saying that the new technology you’ve brought to reviews such as the particle size analyzer and more objective sounds testing are fantastic and exactly what we are looking for!
Second, I owned the DF64 Gen 2 for a very brief period and it had a myriad of problems. I’m making a video of my own to summarize them, because I think most reviewers have tried the original DF64 and are a bit blinded by the improvements they made on the new machine. I’ve never tried the original, and therefore the gen 2 was not an improvement in any way for me, it was just a decent grinder in some ways that still had several problems.
In the weird Canadian market, I was able to get an Ode gen 2 for my workhorse filter grinder and a Varia VS3 gen 2 for an espresso grinder that makes 1-2 espresso a day for the cost of a DF64 gen 2. I’m now very happy with both my filter and espresso, I feel no need to upgrade my burrs in the near future, and my mornings are a lot more peaceful (dang that DF64 gen 2 was loud!)
Lol seems a bit much to have two different grinders for filter vs. espresso. Or is this like your main hobby? Just can't imagine doing that for me
@@hugotendam5349 nothing wrong with having the right tool for the job if you can afford it both monetarily and physically haha. Though I personally agree it is a bit odd 😜
The df64 gen 2 improvementa are embarassing. Silly dial indicator, dosong cup that rattles in the forks, bellows that always makes a huge counter mess, that horizontal flat burr design will always retain alot more coffee in its chamber vs vertical mounts. Yea the plasma generator helps very slighty but damn i still get huge buildup in the chute regardless of declumper design or no declumper at all
@@im_Spade_ true true. I have many BBQ's too so I am a bit of a Hypocrite in this case. I am trying to find out what motivates people to buy grinders. Isn't there one that does it all?
@@hugotendam5349 haha yes I also thought it was silly to own two grinders each for a specific purpose when there are more and more solid all-purpose grinders on the market. What sold me was the cost. I could make an argument that it’s annoying to switch back and forth since I make both everyday, but that really isn’t enough to justify two grinders. What sold me was that I could get way better filter coffee and espresso that was on par and not have the annoyance of one grinder, all for the original cost I was willing to pay for one grinder. And, it certainly is one of my main hobbies haha.
Hi James, thank you so much for you work, I think this video was eagerly awaited by the community ! I actually have the Timemore 064S and would add 2 additionnal drawbacks :
1) I read several feedbacks from other users who highly recommend seasoning the burrs with several kg of coffee (around 7kg) to be able to use it to its full potential. I don't know how relevant this is but this is something to keep in mind
2) this machine is a real pain to open and dismantle to clean the burrs... It takes me 10min to do it everytime because you have to unscrew several tiny allen screws... I don't want to clean it anymore. I tried to align the burrs before using it as well but the process was too annoying so I gave up
But still, this is a very capable machine and I am happy with the workflow and the taste result. It is small so it will be a great companion to a Delonghi Dedica EC machine. You can do very good expresso coffee with this setup for less than 700€ (coffee machine + electrical grinder).
Overall a good choice ! I hesitated between the Timemore Sculptor and DF64 but this one is too noisy to my opinion and I am not a fan of bellows either.
7:00 James, Hot start isn't necessary because the pop shield only allows propably 1-2 beans to pass thru it when stationary, so it wont matter. Without the shield it would indeed matter but thats not the case here :)
Agreed, the motor gets to full speed almost instantaneously so far as I can tell
I just did a little test out of interest. Timed it used normally and then I pushed a matchstick in the safety button so I could use it with the lid open and hot started it. It was exactly the same amount of time to grind 18gr either way. So you are probably right.
Was about to buy one of the other grinders, waited thought about it, heard about Timemore´s new grinders, did some amateur coffee maths and ended up backing Timemore´s 78s.
I´m super happy I got it, a real gem. Glad you like the 64s. I uprgaded from a Porlex hand grinder, although I tried several known grinders from friends, I wasn´t completely happy with them. The 78s seemed like the ultimate move🤷♂
Would be very interested in hearing your thoughts about the Fellow Opus. At $195 (and often on sale), it promises great value, looks great, and could be a bridge between entry and mid-level for many people. As always, thanks for the great videos!
Hi James, great vid!
2 years with my Eureka and I love it. Worth mentioning that you can get it in white, black, or chrome (which I have) which looks fantastic next to my stainless ECM machine and the grinder feels solid and premium.
I don't have issues with changing to filter as I've created a process for going to and fro but the numbers and markings on the grind dial are beginning to fade so I am now cautious with changing it.
The sound is also very pleasant and great to see it comparably nicer than the others in this video.
I wasn't aware of the incompatibility of the burrs which is a shame but I hadn't considered an upgrade.
Another small annoyance I have is the button being on the right side quite far back, and as my espresso machine sits to the right of my grinder it means I have to squeeze my hand in to turn it on/off, I would much prefer the switch to be on the top.
Also worth noting you can take the bellows off and just sit the lid on the hopper if you don't wish to use them!
I've been running a Sette 270 (Wi version, with the scale) and it's been absolutely great. I do grind directly into the portafilter, though, and i've never noticed any clumping. Definitely a very noisy one, though, but made up for that by grinding so quick. I'd rather have 7 seconds of loud than 30 of medium sound :D
I really hate the sound of the Sette 270 in my kitchen 😢😢 would rather wait in peace for a quiet grinder. I'm rarely in a rush to make coffee. And when I am, for example, when serving guests, the noise really gets in the way all the same.
I do agree with most things. The big big advantages for the Sette are no clumping and almost no retention. But the looks and the sound are honestly just really really bad. Pricing was the biggest factor when I bought it three years back. Would buy the Niche now and probably will at some time if there is no new competitor.
Love my sette 270 wi
@@AppleGameification Very fair! I'm not in a rush either, but the convenience of going from an empty cup to a full cup in a minute flat makes up for it, for me.
Not only is there no clumping, I’ve found that even going directly into the portafilter, no wdt is needed with my 270wi.
I’ve had a La Marzocco Mazzer, which was too bulky and loud, Encore, Breville smart grinder, and finally ended my journey at a Eureka Mignon. LOVE this thing
had the sette for three years now. love it to bits. Very little retention has it pay for itself in coffee not wasted in a little more than a year pulling 2-3 shots a day on weekdays and 4-6 shots on weekends. we got the version that doses on weight, super convenient. Very easy to set presets and on the fly bump it up or down a couple of the tenths of a gram on the fly depending on where our machine is on its temperature cycle. It’s a little noisy granted, but dosing straight into a portafilter is no worry what so ever. The portafilter has never fallen out. It grinds very fluffy and light, no need to faff about chasing clumps with paperclips or spray the beans with water. We keep the beans in the hopper. Super convenient with regards to our somewhat rushed mornings. Only real downside that really can’t be mitigated without disrupting the convenient workflow is that it is messy (static) We keep it on a tray sitting in its own mess during the busy weekdays :)
Spraying really helps the static. I had so much static with some crappy beans that they were all over the place but some better beans somehow created less static 😂
The Df64V in my view is a more direct competitor for the Niche, considering it's price point. Sill a bit cheaper at around 600€ it's a great grinder, though obviously as in most iterations of the DF series, the quirks are definitly there. The motor tends to stall easily on low rpm and the rpm display is always on (which is quite fixable though). However the magnetic chute and the overall build quality are just pretty phenomenal. Definitly deserves a closer look.
DF64V is more a match vs The Timemore 064s Specs wise.
Have you got a fix for turning of the RPM display bar switching off at the wall?
Yes, I simply plugged a single port power adapter with a switch between the wall and the DF64V so I can turn it off completely after use. @@charleshennings8144
As always, thank you, James for the level of detail, etc. My only suggestion is to please include “maintenance” of cleaning the grinders. Is it an easy single or double step process for each of these, or do you have many steps (screws, lids, etc.). I think this is important to add to the analysis regarding ease of access. Otherwise, we are blessed with your commitment to bring to the coffee community such an in-depth video, cheers to you!
The niche zero sounds WAY better than most grinders I've heard.
It’s got its own, very distinctive note that is a pleasure to hear in the mornings.
I love the sound of our Niche waking me up from bed. I immediately start imagining the pleasure of the tasty morning espresso coming in a minute or two…
I feel like I will never need another grinder. ❤
As a Baratza Sette owner, I wish I could still hear things.
@@8pin and then the silence of my Cremina as I’m pulling a shot… something just Zen about the pairing.
@@Mebibit RIP your eardrums, and your partners sleep in.
I've had my Niche for 2yrs+ and the best thing about it is my wife also knows how to use it;)
Would love to see someone do Kolmogorov-Smirnov tests on those grind size distributions. That might help give a sense for how meaningful the differences are, espeically given the variance we see on the coarser end of the spectrum. I bet you can get a much smoother probability distribution if you aggregate across a bunch of measurements, too.
Something like that would certainly be useful or any kind of idea of error magnitude. I love James and his videos but the experimental research scientist in me is sceptical whenever a few % differences between lines within the noise spread of the data are referred to as significant or large.
Same. I spend a lot of time with this kind of data at work and my first thought was whether we can realistically reject the Null here. I'm guessing that kind of math is a bit beyond the scope of a coffee channel. But if James were to start a coffee science sister channel, I'd be the first subscriber. @@tommangan7
I have a 10yr Eureka, and you are spot on with your grievance about the grind setting dial. I love the flat burr, and the step less feature, but find it frustrating that the general difference in setting between pour over and espresso is more than two full turns of the dial and therefore, is mainly a single purpose (espresso) grinder for me. It also has a timed doser, which is better with a hopper full of beans versus single dose. My go-to V60 Grindr is the Kinu hand grinder
I've been happy with the Niche Zero for espresso. When I initially got it I used it for filter too, though I eventually purchased an Ode as my primary filter coffee grinder and very recently purchased my "end game" grinder, the Lagom P64, for filter and espresso. I'm going to keep the Niche however, I enjoy the sweet, textured and heavy bodied shots it produces especially when grinding dark roasts.
What made you replace the Niche zero for filter coffee? I'm looking for a grinder which preferably could do both for around 500bucks
@@Justme28795 The filter coffee with the Niche had a lot of body, but lacked clarity and sweetness. I opted for the ode with SSP MP burrs since that produces some of the cleanest tasting cups of coffee. I think if you are into medium and dark roasts the niche is fine for filter but if you are seeking a filter grinder for light roasts, I would look elsewhere.
I’ve had a Niche Zero for two years and I was surprised to see the comment on going coarser. I pull a 2:1 recipe for espresso in ~30 seconds with a grinder setting of the 3rd-4th circle within the espresso label
I'm surprised he didn't compare the 270Wi. It fits the budget, and is the best grinder I've used for workflow. I had the Niche Zero for 6 months and sold it. The workflow from single dosing to the 270Wi is immeasurably better. Grind consistency is better too, surprisingly. The only downfall is the noise.