Do you get a relatively even crushing on your beans? Does it matter **how** disappointed you are, as to how evenly and how finely ground the results are?
A point of recommendation as a data guy who loves data visualization: the Particle Size Analysis could be much more consumable if it was in a box and whisker comparison showing the different percentiles and outliers. I think it would display a better idea of how "tight" the intended vs unintended grinds end up being from each other. Also, a linear heat map for each grinder would be a good way to view what intensity each grinder is producing at each particle size. Perhaps you have already arranged the data in this way and it wasn't as insightful as perhaps I think it would be, but I wanted to bring it up to see if you've at least considered it!
Coffee aficionados wax lyrical about "evenly ground beans," yet any inspection of these so-called "grounds" reveals a reality more akin to a bag of mixed nuts than a scientific marvel. Coarse boulders of bean rubble cavort with powdery specks of near-atomic fineness. It is a universe of disparity, an affront to Newtonian ideals. Surely, a French press deserves the dignity of gravel, not the dust of instant coffee. Are we to believe this chaos is accidental? Or is Big Coffee orchestrating this inconsistency to keep us perpetually upgrading our grinders?
I bought the DF64 because a large flat burr was intriguing to me. What a revelation. Yes the most important part of home espresso is your grinder. Never understood what James was talking about these flavour profiles until now. OMG what a difference.
Shardor 64mm flat burr is every bit as good if not better. Brass on steel zero ware threads. Little post to turn adjustment wheel. Less then half the price. Its $120 on amazon right now. Yeah so you get a df64 gen 2 quality grinder for less then a DF 54. Oh and the ionizer stays clean .
@ I bought Gen. 2.3 with DLC burrs. Can’t be happier. It actually cost the same as my first grinder, the Rancilio Rocky. Couldn’t believe the step up for the same price.
re: Button on the Baratza - I use it when there is just one or 2 beans 'popcorning" around the chamber. I tun off the main switch and allow the bean(s) to settle against the burrs before pulsing again.
I have had a DF54 (white) for a while, like it a lot! Agree about keeping it clean but that's part of my ritual regardless. I actually like taking it apart as it's a chonky machine and very nicely engineered :)
Same, although my SmartGrinder was the pre-Pro version. I find the DF54 vastly superior, even for mess. My SmartGrinder created a lot of static mess, and although the DF54 does create some, I find that a bit of RDT and using the bellows keeps the the ionizer clean. I rarely feel the need to brush clean the ionizer and chute. Fantastic grinder for the money.
I've had a smart grinder for about three years. It's been a good intro into the world, but has recently started clashing the burrs on finer grinds. Certainly considering the DF54 as an upgrade.
I have had the Opus ( picked it over the Baratzza ) now for over a year and your comments , as usual, are very accurate. I get good coffee but the work flow, especially the setup, leaves a lot to be desired. Good coffee but more 'work' than necessary. Great looks, but noisy! Pretty good value.
I bought the Opus a few months ago, and love it. All of the comments James makes are true. At the end of the day the reason i bought it was b/c i think it looks the best and doesn't scream "i'm a coffee grinder" and I like that. The opus can get really messy if you don't spray the beans once in awhile. Great balance between changing from espresso to pour over for my daily drinks.
James, I recently found your channel as I was researching the aeropress and have gone down the rabbit hole😊. I appreciate the approach, honesty, and wit that you bring to your reviews. This channel brings me joy and I am glad to have found it!
I've had the Sage for maybe 6 or 7 years and it's served me well the whole time. Honestly I quite like dumping a bag of coffee in to the hopper and getting it set once, and then not having to worry about weighing out every time. I will note I did buy one of those regular dosing cups to use with it for ease of transferring into my portafilter, because the portafilter doesn't fit great. It ends up stacking up heavily on one side or even completely falling out.
So I recently upgraded from my trusty Graef CM80 (conical) to my first flat burr grinder with the DF54. I have to say, every single coffee since then has been among the best cups I have ever brewed for myself, at home. It's wild. Mind-blowing experience. Love the DF to bits.
I've been loving my Opus because it definitely makes a delicious cup, even if it is a little messy. I also wish I didn't have to whack it so much just to clear out grounds still stuck in it...but I mean, at this price point, I'll take a good cup of coffee with some inconveniences. (also, for reference, American here) *editing for further context* I have used this for almost a year now both for my daily Aeropress coffee as well as for my husband's latte.
A month ago I was looking for an affordable grinder for espresso and found the DF54. So of course, I went to see what the Master had to say about it, and nothing. Nada. Can't help you. I put it on my wish list and left it for another day and today is that day!!! I have an older Baratza I want to replace and am so pleased to hear the good news from my favorite Coffee Evangelist. Thank you for the wonderful work you do.
This is the exact type of content I started following this channel for. And, as it turns out, I've had my eye on the Opus since it came out, so this is very much relevant content to me.
Adding my two cents here as I've owned both the Baratza and the Opus grinders. I found the Baratza's on/off button to actually be quite useful for sort of "clearing" the hopper and burrs before grinding a full dose of coffee. Whether there's any actual benefit to doing this or not (it may have, in fairness, simply been a developed habit), it was a legitimate-seeming use of the button. The Opus -- the grinder I currently use (nearly) every morning -- I would say doesn't seem nearly as high pitched as the recording. This may be small variance between each unit or an artifact of recording. The retention is definitely noticeable and I usually resort to physically hitting the side of the machine or lifting/tapping it down on the counter to ensure everything has passed through. Additionally, something I've noticed is the suggested grind ranges printed on the lid are, at least for filter coffee, entirely misleading. They suggest a mid range for Chemex, while I almost never find myself grinding below an 11. Overall really love the machine though.
Another Opus owner here. Glad I'm not the only one finding the printed grinding range misleading 😄 And I was surprised about the sound level aswell. I don't experience it as high pitched and loud as in the video.
Whats insane to me is how such a minor adjustment to your grinder can drastically change the flavor profile of the coffee. I remember dialing-in a bag of beans and noticing it tastes bitter. A literal 2 mm turn to the dial counter clockwise made it from fairly bitter to completely smooth. It went from being able to sip the coffee occasionally to actually being able to chug it.
Couple of notes as a Smart Grinder Pro user: 1. A $10 3D printed bellows off of Etsy helped massively with my retention issues (which I've had more difficulty with than the charts might have indicated). 2. You can almost always get factory-warrantied, refurbished model from Breville/Sage directly for
Great comparison! If I may nitpick (constructively) it can be tough to read the graphs with the ultra fine X axis. I think making the intermediate ticks larger will make it easier to read. Similarly when talking about a certain line it would be nice to highlight it. Some colors are similar and when all overlapped it’s tough to tell the difference.
I have had a DF54 for a few months now. It is my first "good" grinder. It was messier than I expected at first but I have found that it has gotten much less messy after a couple months' use. I do wet the beans and stick a brush up the nose occasionally but that's it. If I was making larger batches it would be annoying but I am the only coffee drinker in my house so it is perfect for me. The filter coffee and espresso I get out of it is amazing... my only real complain now is that I prefer to make my own coffee each morning instead of taking the free office coffee!
As a person who bought Df54 I believe 2 months ago, though I agree on almost everything in this video I have few things to add. 1 calibiration: like most of Chinese grinders, you usually need to calibrate it out of the box. Usually not a big deal but definitely not a plug and play experience. 2 setting: Especially if you are going filter to espresso then filter again, 45 may not be the same setting after making an espresso. Usually its not that big of a difference but when I saw that comment in reddit, it clerified lots of things for me. Dark roast: as a person who ussualy doesn't drink any dark roasted coffees, that is not a problem to me but everywhere in internet they say every problem about messyness and retention are multiplied by 10 if you are grinding darker roasted coffees. Not only having to clean lot often, people even have issues with stalling and not being able to shoot coffee out of the chute. Like I said, did not happened to me but I have seen it enough times that it seems to worth noting. And lastly service of this grinder in general: I am living in germany and whole shipment with everything lasted a little more than 1 month. Not a deal breaker for me but given you have to wait for twice this amount if you ever have any problems, makes the guarantee peried useless in my eyes.
I have the Baratza Encore ESP and I have zero complaints. 100% HIGHLY recommend the 'bellows' add-on so you can get close to 100% of the ground coffee out of it. It works perfectly.
Thank you for prioritizing noise as a criteria for a grinder. I'm up earlier than my wife and my kids have some noise sensitivity issues, it's why I use a hand grinder even for espresso, I really don't want to tell my kids to go to a different floor every time I make a cup.
I've had a Varia VS3 for a little over a year and a half now and I love it. I came from the Baratza Encore and was thrilled with the whole thing. Design, consistency, ease of cleaning, retention - it's all leaps and bounds better than my Encore was. I do find it moves on me for espresso (frustrating!), and I often end up holding it. Or I put heavy silicone grease on the threads and that can help. But retention is minimal and I like that I can go back and forth from filter and espresso without worry. On my Encore (a non-esp version, mind you) every time I made filter coffee it would throw my espresso way, way off. I've never made coffee at home with a flat burr grinder, so I don't know the difference. To my taste, I like all the coffee my VS3 produces, including filter... But I've not got much to compare it to.
same here bro, I love my varia, I tried specialita from a friend of mine and maybe taste clarity is better, but in terms of qulity of life I think vs3 is the best
As someone who has been recently exploring origin coffees and really getting into the science of coffee in the last 6 months, this has really helped my home barista knowledge. Had my heart set on a payment plan on a Niche Duo but this gives compelling evidence to say I might not need to just yet.. who knows how I may be tempted. Happy sipping and thanks for the video James! ☕
I own an Opus for filter and agree with all the points mentioned, that's why I got A DF64 gen2 for espresso. It's loud, but the adjustments are so much easier.
I own Baratza for 4 years now and it still works perfectly. I use it for filter coffee. Yes it is noisy but I don’t really care because it does its job very well. I highly, highly suggest it without any reservation whatsoever.
What a perfectly timed video as I’m just about to upgrade my Sage SGP for a DF54. And this seals the deal. You missed a massive problem with the Sage, it’s too underpowered and doesn’t have enough torque to grind medium to lighter beans. I’ve had to bin so many bags of beans because they stall the Sage in the most obnoxious way.
I have a DF54 as well as a Niche Zero and I love the simplicity of workflow on both, I find the retention of the DF54 is perfect at 0.1g as I have fairly light home roasted beans so I use the bellows to purge the last chaffy part. The ioniser is a bit crap in that it stops working after 2 to 3 doses but I have found putting an artists paintbrush up the chute and wiggling is enough to declump it. I think at the price the DF54 is an absolute no brainer for price/cup quality
I have the sage and your assessment was fair i think. It does suffer retention issues and can be slightly frustrating when changing grind settings until the previous grind size is completely purged. A great value option though especially when you can get a returned one for around £100 at certain times of the year.
Point of contention and benefit for the Baratza. I just got mine last week and I've had to take it apart twice to recalibrate the burrs since even the 0 setting was grinding too large and my shots were pulling super fast. Because apparently at the factory the calibration setting its set to is seemingly random and I had to try twice to get it right. However, shout outs to Baratza for having an easily serviceable machine that only took a small screwdriver and a knife to get open. These days I consider that a huge boon Well played Baratza
I'm one of those kooky people that likes to hand grind my coffee. For me it's a meditative experience and I just enjoy it. I also don't brew espresso at home, mostly because my kitchen doesn't have the space for a dedicated espresso machine. Having explained that, I still appreciate learning that there are decent motorized grinders out there for a reasonable price.
This is a great review! I think touching on the grinders from a maintenance stand point would be helpful. I have the ESP and cleaning it is an easy process but I don't know how that compares to other grinders.
I have a DF54 - really enjoy the coffee that comes out of it, mine's always been messy even with some cleaning and the adjustment ring is definitely a two handed job as you say (alternating between a morning espresso and mid-morning filter requires a little workout). It's an absolute chonky unit which makes it feel nice and weighty.
I have recently had a family member buy a sage smart grinder pro after I had recommended it for being the only cheaper grinder to have the option to grind for a set time. It may not be the best for single dosing but outside of the hobbyist space thats not necessarily what people want so being able to set it up for people and knowing then all they have to do is press start is nice.
I've had the Opus on 230V for about a year now, but used it only for V60 and AeroPress. Satisfied with the grind, but the build quality is indeed not fantastic. It is just too light, the clicky grind size selector ring isn't smooth nor does it have a positive feel of clicking in place. You have to hold it with one hand while adjusting the grind size with the other. The retention is noticable too, and on finer grind sizes, static as well. I've only got my first espresso machine recently and still waiting for some parts to get it to functional state, so it was a nice surprise to learn that Opus is indeed capable of producing a good espresso grind.
Hint for all owners of inexpensive (and expensive, for that matter) grinders: your particle size consistency will be much better if you start the grinder with nothing in the hopper, and then slow-feed the beans. Having the grinds bump against each other with less frequency means the grinder teeth are doing all the work. Which is what you want in order to obtain consistency. Btw this method also prevents your grinder from getting stalled/stuck, so even with an inexpensive grinder you can enjoy light roasts. And the Urbanic 070s belongs on that list. 60mm flat titanium burr, 250w, $220 shipped.
I usually use the built-in on my Breville (or Spinn) but I did cave and get a grinder for cold brew. I found a decent one that was discounted from 80USD to about 40, and it works great for my basic needs - it has a digital display to adjust the time, grind, etc. and is very quiet and easy to clean. Since I’m not doing a lot of adjusting this was perfect for me, but it’s nice to see what’s available if I ever need to step up.
Phenomenal review and insight, as always! I have the Breville (Australia), I like it and the convenience elements like being able to grind larger amounts for filter coffees and wide range of grind sizes. Super reliable, hasn't missed a beat in thousands of coffees. A bit messy though and that jar is not great. I'm thinking I might need one of those DF54s... From a science/data perspective, the grind size charts might be improved with what's commonly called a box and whisker plot. Nice visual way to show range/tightness/outliers etc.
I’ve got the sage, it was actually gifted to me by a friend who upgraded to a Niche Zero which is insanely good. I still actually use the in built grinder on my Barista Express which I’m imagining has the same burr setup as the Sage Pro, but I’ve kept it as a backup.
I have the baratza esp grinder and love it. It’s actually less noisy than the cheap burr grinder I had before I got my espresso machine and was just using an aeropress. Wish I had something a bit quieter but it’s so great for the price. I feel no need to upgrade right now
I have one too, also very happy with it, the noise could be better, i feel just slightly bad for my neighbours when i make coffee am 6 am in the morning.
I have the Encore ESP... I find it really cool to use but it's really messy, a lot of retention and I don't know but let's say I grind coffee at the 5 scale, perfect shot but as long as I use it, I need to drop on 4, 3 because to maintain the 36g espresso between 25-30 sec. But I guess it's perfect for beginning in the world of coffee. Oh for filter coffee, no problem at all!
Hand grinder crew represent. OE Lido ET. I just don't make enough espresso, since my daily is Aeropress or pourover. I'd rather optimize my grinder for best quality with a manual, than compromising anything for power. If espresso was my daily driver I could totally see these budget grinders being champs of bang for your buck. But now you have another monotasker that needs a power socket. If you mostly want milk drinks, Aeropress or whatever do a great job for a fraction of the price, and they store easily. So for 90% of people. I'd say just use a Mokapot or Aeropress or something and make milk drinks. You only need a power espresso grinder if espresso (ristretto etc) is your daily, and you really don't want to or can't physically use a manual grinder. Maybe there's a huge market for that. Especially if they can do decent filter too. But it's hard for a grinder to be good at both. So even that has its own compromises!
For those less sensitive to noise, I use the ESP every morning and the noise doesn’t bother me. I’m often doing something else as it grinds. It’s probably not a deal breaker to those who noise doesn’t bother in general.
I got the Baratza months ago and I really enjoy it! Both the espresso and the filter taste pretty good to me and the coffee I use so it's good enough for me! The only think I will mention is that it does have some retention, especially in the espresso range. I usually get 0.1/0.2g of retention each time I grind, independent of if I've cleaned it recently or not. Even though the bellows do look a bit ridiculous to use, I wish this grinder came with something like that to counteract some of the retention. Overall though, great grinder, would recommend!
About month ago I wanted to buy finally some electric grinder and was a bit split between Baratza Encore ESP and Fellow Opus. Finally I bought Baratza one, mostly due ease of use how it can be dialed down and operated. It do not looks so fancy like Opus and is a bit loud but I do not have to check notes and calculator how to tune two different dials, just have to turn hopper and it's done. Additionally I noticed there is a lot of accessories online for Encore like smaller hopper or bellows if someone would like to use it. After watching this video seems it wasn't bad choice
Great I was just looking for this guide from you! Minor feedback: Keep the order of the brands in the charts consistent with the order you review them in the start, or include small thumbnails in the charts. (unless you sort on speed or something else ofcourse).
Having initially purchased a Eureka Specialita and struggling with it, I must say I love my DF64. For half the price of the Eureka I'm able to pull better espresso and V60. It lacks the silence of the Eureka and the design is more brutalist in nature but it just works, is easy to adjust and to clean. The DF line is clearly a winner in terms of value and long term build quality.
Obviously I skipped around in this video because it's so new, but as I've been reading the rising quality of budget-friendly hand grinders lately, I was curious as to your thoughts at the stuff that's been coming out in that market. I replaced my Encore with the ESP last year, and I'm loving it. I can't wait to have my own way to make espressos and try its grinds with that!
I also think an opportunity here was to include a hand grinder in the similar/slightly cheaper price point like a K6, and say for $30 less than the ESP, and $100 less than the DF54 does it help your shots or should people spring for the extra few dollars, and not have to fuss with grinding.
I have the older (hidden on button) DF64. I like it. I do not like the plastic cup, as it is a bit of an attractor for the fines that inevitably float around after grinding. Bellows I'm ok with, clearing the chamber of retained coffee is more important than the perceived image of being a clown. shrug. the sound, I actually like the sound - it's not too loud, it's more akin to a Pavlov's bell, i'm going to have delicious coffee really soon now! I too like the flat burr grinders. If I had to get another grinder (unlikely, even with my complaints, like the stupid decision to put the on button hidden behind the dosing cup), I'd probably go for an ionizing one. clean up is not that troublesome, it's just Yet Another Thing to Do before I drink my coffee. thank you James for your very entertaining and substantial reviews.
Purchase the Opus a week ago, every time he spoke about the opus, i was ready to just get my grinder and return it, glad nothing bad with that grinder got said lol
I’ve had an opus for about 2 years now and I love it. Even packed it up for road trips, lol I use it for moccamaster filter and aero press coffee. Murican as well!
Eureka Mignon Filtro/Manuale. Under $200 flat burr grinder. Easily upgradable: burrs, single dose hopper/bellows, and I made a little forward-leaning stand to further help with retention (which is essentially 0 anyway with the bellows). I've had this grinder for about 2 years and it has been a treat. Consistent grind size, great for my Flair espresso set up (non-pressurized portafilter). Easy to open up for deep cleaning or burr changes as desired.
I have an Opus. I sometimes have an issue where the bean doesn't go into the burr. I have to take the hopper off, and put the bean into the burr. In addition, I have found that tapping on the top of the hopper, with the lid on helps to get some of the coffee out.
I had the Wilfa Uniform for filter and 1Zpresso JX Pro for espresso. Now I've switched to the DF54, and it exceeds both grinders for both filter and espresso.
i have df54 (my first grinder) if you clean it its not messy (on espresso settings) and if you use water its not messy at all even without cleaning. i dont find it loud, i dont find it slow. i like using it and im happy with my purchase. i like how heavy it is, i hope it will last as long as it looks. i would like to see more burr options in future (i think its selling good so that shouldnt be problem). now im going to clean it
I found this on amazon SHARDOR Professional 64mm Burr Coffee Grinder for $120. I bought it out of pure morbid curiosity Thinking I would return it and was massively surprised to get something of its build quality for 120 bucks. So basically, I got a DF 64 for for like 70% off that price of a DF 64. Maybe I’m wrong, but it’s Amazon so you just send it back if you don’t like it
I bought the Baratza Encore esp a couple of weeks ago. The noise isn't that big of a deal for me to be honest, otherwise I agree with you. For £160 it's a great bit of kit
I researched quite a lot to choose an espresso capable grinder for this price point, but then, my friends gifted me a Kinu M47 as a birthday present, and I don't think I'll need any other grinder for the next 5 - 10 years :))
I have the sage grinder dose pro which is the same as the smart one but without the little screen. It's a perfectly good grinder for what I use it for which is filter coffee!
This is exactly the video I’ve been looking for! I’ve been making what I call ‘cheapskate lattes’ for a while using a Timemore C2 and an Aeropress for years. Now I’m ready to buy a better grinder and espresso machine!
My Baratza esp has been a solid grinder, there was an issue with a small felt piece in the grinder which their customer service shipped a new one to me ASAP. Not sure how good the other warranty process is for the other grinders but Baratza is top notch.
I've got the Sage grinder, it really isn't great stock, but there are some really good 3D prints (single dose hopper), which Massively improve the workflow, combine that with some cheap bellows & you get actually very little retention
Regarding DF54 mess- its all about cleaning ionizer. And the fastest way to do it is to simply put something like a "straw cleaner" or similar thing through the chute, move it around few times and your good for another 0,5kg of coffee.
24:35 "I don't think I could invite [Baratza] into my house and listen to it every single morning without being annoyed by it" Baratza: "YEAH, SO LAST NIGHT I GOT SO DRUNK AT THE CLUB, AND I MET THIS GIRL, AND SHE SAYS THAT SHE WANTS TO MEET YOU, DON'T WORRY ABOUT YOUR WIFE SHE DOESN'T HAVE TO KNOW" James (through clenched jaw): "Barazta, you said you'd only be staying for a few days. It's been two weeks already..."
NB: the DF retains without exchange, in my experience. There is coffee accumulation behind the declumping flap that just stays there and grows around the plasma pins. It eventually clogs the chute if not cleared out periodically. This happens on the 64, not sure about the 54.
In a funny way, we love the noise coming off our Baratza grinder. It’s loud enough that my wife can hear it from the second floor of our home while she’s still in bed and it gives her enormous comfort to know that her morning latte will be filled on its way.
I had to build a soundproof box for my Baratza Encore. Made for a fun build video though! If only this video was released a few years ago before I bought that thing
My fiancé bought me the Breville, and it has been very consistent. I purchase coffee from Onyx, who recommends grind sizes for there recipes but never provides the breville sizes. l don’t understand why people overlook it. I use it for pour overs and cold brew it handles that range well.
I bought the ESP when it first arrived in the UK on a pre-sale discount. It replaced the non-smart version of the sage grinder in this review. Yes, its better - but its not a game-changer, which pretty much lines up with what you've said. I was thinking about the DF54 as my next upgrade, but now I'm thinking its probably not worth it & I'll keep saving for a "next level" grinder instead.
I hate seeing one I bought in the lineup for review... Happy to see he likes the performance of the opus. I have it, and I would say similar issues with retention. Gonna try the trick he showed to see if it helps.
I just prefer to crush the beans under the weight of my massive disappointment
Nothing is more powerful than negative emotions.
I often just show the beans my face and that makes them want to combust
I spat my cappuccino while reading this
😂
Do you get a relatively even crushing on your beans? Does it matter **how** disappointed you are, as to how evenly and how finely ground the results are?
A point of recommendation as a data guy who loves data visualization: the Particle Size Analysis could be much more consumable if it was in a box and whisker comparison showing the different percentiles and outliers. I think it would display a better idea of how "tight" the intended vs unintended grinds end up being from each other. Also, a linear heat map for each grinder would be a good way to view what intensity each grinder is producing at each particle size.
Perhaps you have already arranged the data in this way and it wasn't as insightful as perhaps I think it would be, but I wanted to bring it up to see if you've at least considered it!
Coffee aficionados wax lyrical about "evenly ground beans," yet any inspection of these so-called "grounds" reveals a reality more akin to a bag of mixed nuts than a scientific marvel. Coarse boulders of bean rubble cavort with powdery specks of near-atomic fineness. It is a universe of disparity, an affront to Newtonian ideals. Surely, a French press deserves the dignity of gravel, not the dust of instant coffee. Are we to believe this chaos is accidental? Or is Big Coffee orchestrating this inconsistency to keep us perpetually upgrading our grinders?
As someone who had no idea how to interpret the graphs in the video, I agree with any improvements
I bought the DF64 because a large flat burr was intriguing to me. What a revelation. Yes the most important part of home espresso is your grinder. Never understood what James was talking about these flavour profiles until now. OMG what a difference.
DF64 is still what I always recommend. Bought mine 5 years ago and it's still my favorite (I did install ssp cast burrs last year tho).
Shardor 64mm flat burr is every bit as good if not better. Brass on steel zero ware threads. Little post to turn adjustment wheel. Less then half the price. Its $120 on amazon right now. Yeah so you get a df64 gen 2 quality grinder for less then a DF 54. Oh and the ionizer stays clean .
I would say the DF64V is the best value. Though, the gen 2 is a huge disappointment for me. Ymmv, of course.
@ I bought Gen. 2.3 with DLC burrs. Can’t be happier. It actually cost the same as my first grinder, the Rancilio Rocky. Couldn’t believe the step up for the same price.
re: Button on the Baratza - I use it when there is just one or 2 beans 'popcorning" around the chamber. I tun off the main switch and allow the bean(s) to settle against the burrs before pulsing again.
I got the Baratza ESP. Love the simplicity of it. Enjoying the taste of my espresso. Great little machine.
This is the best video to see drop the morning after researching this exact question 🙌
Synchronicity is wild 😅
Great comparison, I actually just purchased a DF54 the other week and I absolutely love it! A nice upgrade from the Breville Smart grinder pro
I have had a DF54 (white) for a while, like it a lot! Agree about keeping it clean but that's part of my ritual regardless. I actually like taking it apart as it's a chonky machine and very nicely engineered :)
I have owned the Breville (Sage) grinder, and now own a DF54 - massive step up in terms of espresso.
Same, although my SmartGrinder was the pre-Pro version. I find the DF54 vastly superior, even for mess. My SmartGrinder created a lot of static mess, and although the DF54 does create some, I find that a bit of RDT and using the bellows keeps the the ionizer clean. I rarely feel the need to brush clean the ionizer and chute.
Fantastic grinder for the money.
I've had a smart grinder for about three years. It's been a good intro into the world, but has recently started clashing the burrs on finer grinds. Certainly considering the DF54 as an upgrade.
Same!
I have had the Opus ( picked it over the Baratzza ) now for over a year and your comments , as usual, are very accurate. I get good coffee but the work flow, especially the setup, leaves a lot to be desired. Good coffee but more 'work' than necessary. Great looks, but noisy! Pretty good value.
Exactly my experience!
Discovering there's an app (Beanie for Fellow Opus) helped me a lot with the setup; I just save screenshots for each type of beans on my phone.
that micro adjustment is just infuriating
Just curious, roughly what kind of settings do you use for espresso on Opus? Thanks.
I bought the Opus a few months ago, and love it. All of the comments James makes are true. At the end of the day the reason i bought it was b/c i think it looks the best and doesn't scream "i'm a coffee grinder" and I like that. The opus can get really messy if you don't spray the beans once in awhile. Great balance between changing from espresso to pour over for my daily drinks.
James, I recently found your channel as I was researching the aeropress and have gone down the rabbit hole😊. I appreciate the approach, honesty, and wit that you bring to your reviews. This channel brings me joy and I am glad to have found it!
Best way to spend half an hour on RUclips. Welcome back, James 🎉
I've had the Sage for maybe 6 or 7 years and it's served me well the whole time. Honestly I quite like dumping a bag of coffee in to the hopper and getting it set once, and then not having to worry about weighing out every time. I will note I did buy one of those regular dosing cups to use with it for ease of transferring into my portafilter, because the portafilter doesn't fit great. It ends up stacking up heavily on one side or even completely falling out.
I do the same thing. I keep the ground coffee in an airtight container. A vacuum type container.
So I recently upgraded from my trusty Graef CM80 (conical) to my first flat burr grinder with the DF54.
I have to say, every single coffee since then has been among the best cups I have ever brewed for myself, at home.
It's wild. Mind-blowing experience. Love the DF to bits.
James using a EQ graph term (bassy-er) for tasing notes, was a wonderful surprise. It's how I judge all foods and drinks by, an EQ graph
I've been loving my Opus because it definitely makes a delicious cup, even if it is a little messy. I also wish I didn't have to whack it so much just to clear out grounds still stuck in it...but I mean, at this price point, I'll take a good cup of coffee with some inconveniences. (also, for reference, American here) *editing for further context* I have used this for almost a year now both for my daily Aeropress coffee as well as for my husband's latte.
I picked up the DF54 and its wonderful. Using for both Espresso and french press. Upgraded from a hand grinder.
A month ago I was looking for an affordable grinder for espresso and found the DF54. So of course, I went to see what the Master had to say about it, and nothing. Nada. Can't help you. I put it on my wish list and left it for another day and today is that day!!! I have an older Baratza I want to replace and am so pleased to hear the good news from my favorite Coffee Evangelist. Thank you for the wonderful work you do.
This is the exact type of content I started following this channel for. And, as it turns out, I've had my eye on the Opus since it came out, so this is very much relevant content to me.
Adding my two cents here as I've owned both the Baratza and the Opus grinders.
I found the Baratza's on/off button to actually be quite useful for sort of "clearing" the hopper and burrs before grinding a full dose of coffee. Whether there's any actual benefit to doing this or not (it may have, in fairness, simply been a developed habit), it was a legitimate-seeming use of the button.
The Opus -- the grinder I currently use (nearly) every morning -- I would say doesn't seem nearly as high pitched as the recording. This may be small variance between each unit or an artifact of recording. The retention is definitely noticeable and I usually resort to physically hitting the side of the machine or lifting/tapping it down on the counter to ensure everything has passed through. Additionally, something I've noticed is the suggested grind ranges printed on the lid are, at least for filter coffee, entirely misleading. They suggest a mid range for Chemex, while I almost never find myself grinding below an 11. Overall really love the machine though.
Another Opus owner here. Glad I'm not the only one finding the printed grinding range misleading 😄
And I was surprised about the sound level aswell. I don't experience it as high pitched and loud as in the video.
Whats insane to me is how such a minor adjustment to your grinder can drastically change the flavor profile of the coffee.
I remember dialing-in a bag of beans and noticing it tastes bitter. A literal 2 mm turn to the dial counter clockwise made it from fairly bitter to completely smooth.
It went from being able to sip the coffee occasionally to actually being able to chug it.
Couple of notes as a Smart Grinder Pro user:
1. A $10 3D printed bellows off of Etsy helped massively with my retention issues (which I've had more difficulty with than the charts might have indicated).
2. You can almost always get factory-warrantied, refurbished model from Breville/Sage directly for
Great comparison! If I may nitpick (constructively) it can be tough to read the graphs with the ultra fine X axis. I think making the intermediate ticks larger will make it easier to read. Similarly when talking about a certain line it would be nice to highlight it. Some colors are similar and when all overlapped it’s tough to tell the difference.
Nitpicks welcome!
I have had a DF54 for a few months now. It is my first "good" grinder. It was messier than I expected at first but I have found that it has gotten much less messy after a couple months' use. I do wet the beans and stick a brush up the nose occasionally but that's it. If I was making larger batches it would be annoying but I am the only coffee drinker in my house so it is perfect for me. The filter coffee and espresso I get out of it is amazing... my only real complain now is that I prefer to make my own coffee each morning instead of taking the free office coffee!
As a person who bought Df54 I believe 2 months ago, though I agree on almost everything in this video I have few things to add.
1 calibiration: like most of Chinese grinders, you usually need to calibrate it out of the box. Usually not a big deal but definitely not a plug and play experience.
2 setting: Especially if you are going filter to espresso then filter again, 45 may not be the same setting after making an espresso. Usually its not that big of a difference but when I saw that comment in reddit, it clerified lots of things for me.
Dark roast: as a person who ussualy doesn't drink any dark roasted coffees, that is not a problem to me but everywhere in internet they say every problem about messyness and retention are multiplied by 10 if you are grinding darker roasted coffees. Not only having to clean lot often, people even have issues with stalling and not being able to shoot coffee out of the chute. Like I said, did not happened to me but I have seen it enough times that it seems to worth noting.
And lastly service of this grinder in general: I am living in germany and whole shipment with everything lasted a little more than 1 month. Not a deal breaker for me but given you have to wait for twice this amount if you ever have any problems, makes the guarantee peried useless in my eyes.
I have the Baratza Encore ESP and I have zero complaints. 100% HIGHLY recommend the 'bellows' add-on so you can get close to 100% of the ground coffee out of it. It works perfectly.
Thank you for prioritizing noise as a criteria for a grinder. I'm up earlier than my wife and my kids have some noise sensitivity issues, it's why I use a hand grinder even for espresso, I really don't want to tell my kids to go to a different floor every time I make a cup.
I've had a Varia VS3 for a little over a year and a half now and I love it. I came from the Baratza Encore and was thrilled with the whole thing. Design, consistency, ease of cleaning, retention - it's all leaps and bounds better than my Encore was.
I do find it moves on me for espresso (frustrating!), and I often end up holding it. Or I put heavy silicone grease on the threads and that can help. But retention is minimal and I like that I can go back and forth from filter and espresso without worry. On my Encore (a non-esp version, mind you) every time I made filter coffee it would throw my espresso way, way off.
I've never made coffee at home with a flat burr grinder, so I don't know the difference. To my taste, I like all the coffee my VS3 produces, including filter... But I've not got much to compare it to.
same here bro, I love my varia, I tried specialita from a friend of mine and maybe taste clarity is better, but in terms of qulity of life I think vs3 is the best
As someone who has been recently exploring origin coffees and really getting into the science of coffee in the last 6 months, this has really helped my home barista knowledge. Had my heart set on a payment plan on a Niche Duo but this gives compelling evidence to say I might not need to just yet.. who knows how I may be tempted. Happy sipping and thanks for the video James! ☕
I own an Opus for filter and agree with all the points mentioned, that's why I got A DF64 gen2 for espresso. It's loud, but the adjustments are so much easier.
Marathon. Great work all. 5 espressos in and James is still coherently reviewing the grinders.
I own Baratza for 4 years now and it still works perfectly. I use it for filter coffee. Yes it is noisy but I don’t really care because it does its job very well. I highly, highly suggest it without any reservation whatsoever.
I absolutely love these grinder tests. So of my favorite tastings/discussions in an ever changing market.
James, the people yearn for the specialty coffee/biscuits pairing video
What a perfectly timed video as I’m just about to upgrade my Sage SGP for a DF54. And this seals the deal.
You missed a massive problem with the Sage, it’s too underpowered and doesn’t have enough torque to grind medium to lighter beans. I’ve had to bin so many bags of beans because they stall the Sage in the most obnoxious way.
I have a DF54 as well as a Niche Zero and I love the simplicity of workflow on both, I find the retention of the DF54 is perfect at 0.1g as I have fairly light home roasted beans so I use the bellows to purge the last chaffy part. The ioniser is a bit crap in that it stops working after 2 to 3 doses but I have found putting an artists paintbrush up the chute and wiggling is enough to declump it. I think at the price the DF54 is an absolute no brainer for price/cup quality
Had the Sage for about 5 years. Hasn't missed a beat. Love it.
I purchased a Baratza Encore eight years ago and love; good quality machine, produces good grinds. Don't really do espressos.
I have the sage and your assessment was fair i think. It does suffer retention issues and can be slightly frustrating when changing grind settings until the previous grind size is completely purged. A great value option though especially when you can get a returned one for around £100 at certain times of the year.
Point of contention and benefit for the Baratza. I just got mine last week and I've had to take it apart twice to recalibrate the burrs since even the 0 setting was grinding too large and my shots were pulling super fast. Because apparently at the factory the calibration setting its set to is seemingly random and I had to try twice to get it right. However, shout outs to Baratza for having an easily serviceable machine that only took a small screwdriver and a knife to get open. These days I consider that a huge boon
Well played Baratza
Thank you so much for all your videos! Just started understanding and actually enjoying coffee and it’s all because of your videos! Thank you!!!!❤
I'm one of those kooky people that likes to hand grind my coffee. For me it's a meditative experience and I just enjoy it. I also don't brew espresso at home, mostly because my kitchen doesn't have the space for a dedicated espresso machine. Having explained that, I still appreciate learning that there are decent motorized grinders out there for a reasonable price.
That camera sweep at 3:18 was beautiful always love you sneaking little advanced techniques into vids to up the feel of quality
This is a great review! I think touching on the grinders from a maintenance stand point would be helpful. I have the ESP and cleaning it is an easy process but I don't know how that compares to other grinders.
I have a DF54 - really enjoy the coffee that comes out of it, mine's always been messy even with some cleaning and the adjustment ring is definitely a two handed job as you say (alternating between a morning espresso and mid-morning filter requires a little workout). It's an absolute chonky unit which makes it feel nice and weighty.
I have recently had a family member buy a sage smart grinder pro after I had recommended it for being the only cheaper grinder to have the option to grind for a set time. It may not be the best for single dosing but outside of the hobbyist space thats not necessarily what people want so being able to set it up for people and knowing then all they have to do is press start is nice.
I've had the Opus on 230V for about a year now, but used it only for V60 and AeroPress. Satisfied with the grind, but the build quality is indeed not fantastic. It is just too light, the clicky grind size selector ring isn't smooth nor does it have a positive feel of clicking in place. You have to hold it with one hand while adjusting the grind size with the other. The retention is noticable too, and on finer grind sizes, static as well. I've only got my first espresso machine recently and still waiting for some parts to get it to functional state, so it was a nice surprise to learn that Opus is indeed capable of producing a good espresso grind.
Hint for all owners of inexpensive (and expensive, for that matter) grinders: your particle size consistency will be much better if you start the grinder with nothing in the hopper, and then slow-feed the beans. Having the grinds bump against each other with less frequency means the grinder teeth are doing all the work. Which is what you want in order to obtain consistency. Btw this method also prevents your grinder from getting stalled/stuck, so even with an inexpensive grinder you can enjoy light roasts.
And the Urbanic 070s belongs on that list. 60mm flat titanium burr, 250w, $220 shipped.
I usually use the built-in on my Breville (or Spinn) but I did cave and get a grinder for cold brew. I found a decent one that was discounted from 80USD to about 40, and it works great for my basic needs - it has a digital display to adjust the time, grind, etc. and is very quiet and easy to clean. Since I’m not doing a lot of adjusting this was perfect for me, but it’s nice to see what’s available if I ever need to step up.
If I may be so bold as to make a request, could we have an updated Best Handgrinders video(s) please?
I can't tell you the joy on a Monday morning to see an over 30 min video from James. It's gonna be a good week.
Phenomenal review and insight, as always! I have the Breville (Australia), I like it and the convenience elements like being able to grind larger amounts for filter coffees and wide range of grind sizes. Super reliable, hasn't missed a beat in thousands of coffees. A bit messy though and that jar is not great. I'm thinking I might need one of those DF54s... From a science/data perspective, the grind size charts might be improved with what's commonly called a box and whisker plot. Nice visual way to show range/tightness/outliers etc.
I’ve got the sage, it was actually gifted to me by a friend who upgraded to a Niche Zero which is insanely good. I still actually use the in built grinder on my Barista Express which I’m imagining has the same burr setup as the Sage Pro, but I’ve kept it as a backup.
I have the baratza esp grinder and love it. It’s actually less noisy than the cheap burr grinder I had before I got my espresso machine and was just using an aeropress. Wish I had something a bit quieter but it’s so great for the price. I feel no need to upgrade right now
I have one too, also very happy with it, the noise could be better, i feel just slightly bad for my neighbours when i make coffee am 6 am in the morning.
I have the Encore ESP... I find it really cool to use but it's really messy, a lot of retention and I don't know but let's say I grind coffee at the 5 scale, perfect shot but as long as I use it, I need to drop on 4, 3 because to maintain the 36g espresso between 25-30 sec.
But I guess it's perfect for beginning in the world of coffee.
Oh for filter coffee, no problem at all!
DF54 is also about $170 (USD) direct from China
where do you order it?
Follow, thanks
@@schraderclemens6122 Aliexpress has it. That being said, Id recommend only using Paypal with aliexpress.
Hand grinder crew represent. OE Lido ET. I just don't make enough espresso, since my daily is Aeropress or pourover. I'd rather optimize my grinder for best quality with a manual, than compromising anything for power. If espresso was my daily driver I could totally see these budget grinders being champs of bang for your buck. But now you have another monotasker that needs a power socket. If you mostly want milk drinks, Aeropress or whatever do a great job for a fraction of the price, and they store easily. So for 90% of people. I'd say just use a Mokapot or Aeropress or something and make milk drinks. You only need a power espresso grinder if espresso (ristretto etc) is your daily, and you really don't want to or can't physically use a manual grinder. Maybe there's a huge market for that. Especially if they can do decent filter too. But it's hard for a grinder to be good at both. So even that has its own compromises!
How do all of these compare to a ≈£200 hand grinder, for example, the 1Zpresso J-Ultra or a Kinu M47?
I'm so happy to see James being back to doing classic gear reviews! :D
For those less sensitive to noise, I use the ESP every morning and the noise doesn’t bother me. I’m often doing something else as it grinds. It’s probably not a deal breaker to those who noise doesn’t bother in general.
I got the Baratza months ago and I really enjoy it! Both the espresso and the filter taste pretty good to me and the coffee I use so it's good enough for me! The only think I will mention is that it does have some retention, especially in the espresso range. I usually get 0.1/0.2g of retention each time I grind, independent of if I've cleaned it recently or not. Even though the bellows do look a bit ridiculous to use, I wish this grinder came with something like that to counteract some of the retention.
Overall though, great grinder, would recommend!
I like to plop the plastic lid on as a sort of bellow at the end of the grind. Try it out!
About month ago I wanted to buy finally some electric grinder and was a bit split between Baratza Encore ESP and Fellow Opus. Finally I bought Baratza one, mostly due ease of use how it can be dialed down and operated. It do not looks so fancy like Opus and is a bit loud but I do not have to check notes and calculator how to tune two different dials, just have to turn hopper and it's done. Additionally I noticed there is a lot of accessories online for Encore like smaller hopper or bellows if someone would like to use it. After watching this video seems it wasn't bad choice
Great I was just looking for this guide from you!
Minor feedback: Keep the order of the brands in the charts consistent with the order you review them in the start, or include small thumbnails in the charts. (unless you sort on speed or something else ofcourse).
Having initially purchased a Eureka Specialita and struggling with it, I must say I love my DF64. For half the price of the Eureka I'm able to pull better espresso and V60. It lacks the silence of the Eureka and the design is more brutalist in nature but it just works, is easy to adjust and to clean. The DF line is clearly a winner in terms of value and long term build quality.
Obviously I skipped around in this video because it's so new, but as I've been reading the rising quality of budget-friendly hand grinders lately, I was curious as to your thoughts at the stuff that's been coming out in that market.
I replaced my Encore with the ESP last year, and I'm loving it. I can't wait to have my own way to make espressos and try its grinds with that!
I also think an opportunity here was to include a hand grinder in the similar/slightly cheaper price point like a K6, and say for $30 less than the ESP, and $100 less than the DF54 does it help your shots or should people spring for the extra few dollars, and not have to fuss with grinding.
Hope to see updated manual grinders version
I have a df54! Super happy w it!
I have the older (hidden on button) DF64. I like it. I do not like the plastic cup, as it is a bit of an attractor for the fines that inevitably float around after grinding. Bellows I'm ok with, clearing the chamber of retained coffee is more important than the perceived image of being a clown. shrug. the sound, I actually like the sound - it's not too loud, it's more akin to a Pavlov's bell, i'm going to have delicious coffee really soon now!
I too like the flat burr grinders. If I had to get another grinder (unlikely, even with my complaints, like the stupid decision to put the on button hidden behind the dosing cup), I'd probably go for an ionizing one. clean up is not that troublesome, it's just Yet Another Thing to Do before I drink my coffee.
thank you James for your very entertaining and substantial reviews.
I have the DF54 and I am very happy with it. It occasionally gets a bit messy but that’s a minor issue for me.
Purchase the Opus a week ago, every time he spoke about the opus, i was ready to just get my grinder and return it, glad nothing bad with that grinder got said lol
I’ve had an opus for about 2 years now and I love it. Even packed it up for road trips, lol
I use it for moccamaster filter and aero press coffee.
Murican as well!
Eureka Mignon Filtro/Manuale. Under $200 flat burr grinder. Easily upgradable: burrs, single dose hopper/bellows, and I made a little forward-leaning stand to further help with retention (which is essentially 0 anyway with the bellows). I've had this grinder for about 2 years and it has been a treat. Consistent grind size, great for my Flair espresso set up (non-pressurized portafilter). Easy to open up for deep cleaning or burr changes as desired.
I have an Opus. I sometimes have an issue where the bean doesn't go into the burr. I have to take the hopper off, and put the bean into the burr. In addition, I have found that tapping on the top of the hopper, with the lid on helps to get some of the coffee out.
I had the Wilfa Uniform for filter and 1Zpresso JX Pro for espresso. Now I've switched to the DF54, and it exceeds both grinders for both filter and espresso.
i have df54 (my first grinder) if you clean it its not messy (on espresso settings) and if you use water its not messy at all even without cleaning. i dont find it loud, i dont find it slow. i like using it and im happy with my purchase. i like how heavy it is, i hope it will last as long as it looks. i would like to see more burr options in future (i think its selling good so that shouldnt be problem). now im going to clean it
Now that ive cleaned i almost forgot about one con: rubber base leaves streals on my oak top. Maybe it reacts with my oil finish
Been waiting for this part button, finally 🎉
this is the most exciting video on youtube i’ve seen of late (maybe im just james deprived)
I found this on amazon SHARDOR Professional 64mm Burr Coffee Grinder for $120. I bought it out of pure morbid curiosity Thinking I would return it and was massively surprised to get something of its build quality for 120 bucks. So basically, I got a DF 64 for for like 70% off that price of a DF 64. Maybe I’m wrong, but it’s Amazon so you just send it back if you don’t like it
The best espresso grinder und......AAAAND ITS SOLD OUT
I bought the Baratza Encore esp a couple of weeks ago. The noise isn't that big of a deal for me to be honest, otherwise I agree with you. For £160 it's a great bit of kit
I researched quite a lot to choose an espresso capable grinder for this price point, but then, my friends gifted me a Kinu M47 as a birthday present, and I don't think I'll need any other grinder for the next 5 - 10 years :))
I have the sage grinder dose pro which is the same as the smart one but without the little screen. It's a perfectly good grinder for what I use it for which is filter coffee!
3:17 this shot is ABSOLUTELY CINEMA
This is exactly the video I’ve been looking for! I’ve been making what I call ‘cheapskate lattes’ for a while using a Timemore C2 and an Aeropress for years. Now I’m ready to buy a better grinder and espresso machine!
My Baratza esp has been a solid grinder, there was an issue with a small felt piece in the grinder which their customer service shipped a new one to me ASAP. Not sure how good the other warranty process is for the other grinders but Baratza is top notch.
Happy there are entry level grinders other than the niche - I remember when the niche was approaching $1k on the secondary market because of demand!
I've got the Sage grinder, it really isn't great stock, but there are some really good 3D prints (single dose hopper), which Massively improve the workflow, combine that with some cheap bellows & you get actually very little retention
Regarding DF54 mess- its all about cleaning ionizer. And the fastest way to do it is to simply put something like a "straw cleaner" or similar thing through the chute, move it around few times and your good for another 0,5kg of coffee.
24:35 "I don't think I could invite [Baratza] into my house and listen to it every single morning without being annoyed by it"
Baratza: "YEAH, SO LAST NIGHT I GOT SO DRUNK AT THE CLUB, AND I MET THIS GIRL, AND SHE SAYS THAT SHE WANTS TO MEET YOU, DON'T WORRY ABOUT YOUR WIFE SHE DOESN'T HAVE TO KNOW"
James (through clenched jaw): "Barazta, you said you'd only be staying for a few days. It's been two weeks already..."
NB: the DF retains without exchange, in my experience. There is coffee accumulation behind the declumping flap that just stays there and grows around the plasma pins. It eventually clogs the chute if not cleared out periodically. This happens on the 64, not sure about the 54.
In a funny way, we love the noise coming off our Baratza grinder.
It’s loud enough that my wife can hear it from the second floor of our home while she’s still in bed and it gives her enormous comfort to know that her morning latte will be filled on its way.
Note that we have a classic Encore but we’ve switched to the ESP burrs recently.
I had to build a soundproof box for my Baratza Encore. Made for a fun build video though!
If only this video was released a few years ago before I bought that thing
My fiancé bought me the Breville, and it has been very consistent. I purchase coffee from Onyx, who recommends grind sizes for there recipes but never provides the breville sizes. l don’t understand why people overlook it. I use it for pour overs and cold brew it handles that range well.
I own the Baratza, and I love it. It does a great job!
I bought the ESP when it first arrived in the UK on a pre-sale discount. It replaced the non-smart version of the sage grinder in this review. Yes, its better - but its not a game-changer, which pretty much lines up with what you've said. I was thinking about the DF54 as my next upgrade, but now I'm thinking its probably not worth it & I'll keep saving for a "next level" grinder instead.
Fellow has got one of the best after sales service .Price is right , good quality grind , nicer looks . Easy decision .
I hate seeing one I bought in the lineup for review...
Happy to see he likes the performance of the opus. I have it, and I would say similar issues with retention. Gonna try the trick he showed to see if it helps.
This is just the video I was looking for!
Baratza is amazing for the age and price.
Eh, I got a timemore c3 manual one and I’m perfectly happy with it