Thanks for watching! Liking and subscribing are always easy ways to support the channel! Also here is a short video addressing further comments for comparative burr testing: ruclips.net/video/raEjrZsOntw/видео.html
Awesome video Kyle. Did you do some comparaison vs the Niche. I currently have a Niche and Im thinking pulling the trigger on the 78S. Btw Looking forward to try your beans soon !
Thanks for your preview on these two grinders. Is there any chance you can include product dimensions in your gear reviews? Usually you can find them on their respective websites but sometimes they are lacking or appear inaccurate. The whole will it fit aspect can't be underestimated.
The Timemore C2 basically got me through my last few university years, and now that I have an actual income, the Kickstarter price of the 78S seemed like just the right thing to stretch my budget a bit and get something really great for the price. Very glad to see that I don't have to face any buyers remorse about backing it just yet.
I backed the 064s a week ago, and just couldn't wait for a recension. Thank you! This will be my first electric grinder, I only have conical hand grinders for now. I'm getting tired of hand grinding. 😂 I mostly brew espresso, and I think 064s would be a right choice.
I backed the 78S and it sounds like that was a wise choice. It will be used next to my Niche for espresso, although at some point one will likely have to go. Can't wait to experience the flat burr difference for both espresso and filter. Great review, Kyle!
@@HaaniJaber I usually drink light~light/med-roasted coffee for both filter and espresso so I prefer the enhanced clarity that I get from SSP MP flat burrs. But even for dark roasts especially when I do filters, SSP MP burr creates much less bitterness due to more uniform grind profiles so I prefer that as well.
I just remembered how MUCH I missed your reviews after watching this video Kyle. Super excited to receive 078 seems like a very nice grinder. Can't wait to discuss more about it in the discord!
Great review! Been waiting for that! Thanks!! Only thing that fell a bit short was how the 64s with the SSP MP burrs did taste and performancewise compared to the standard 64s burr and also the 78s . Cheers
I had filmed this but the video was over 30min long. And I felt most people would appreciate this as a separate video, which we will do in a comparison in the future.
@@KyleRowsell Great! Looking forward to that review! So just for a quick hint… u think i should stick to my plan of using SSP MPs (that i already own) and put them in the 64s that i backed?! I want to do everything from Espresso to french press with the grinder. Do you think there is a better option for that within the Sculptor grinder family?!
@@kulbertistvan I've been in love with the DF64V for its looks and promise for a while now, but after the first reviews I got so turned off by the noise it made! I have now backed the 78S. Felling good about it!
Great video as always, Kyle. I backed the 064s already and you pretty much addressed everything I was curious about. Definitely gave me some peace of mind about my decision. Thank you!
Thanks Kyle! I backed the 78S to lock in that $499 price, and I was hoping someone would get a review in before the kickstarter closed. I am now confident in my choice. Also, I really enjoyed September Coffee when I first received it, but I was amazed how much better it was a couple weeks after receiving it. It definitely benefits from resting (which is so hard to do when you are excited about a new coffee). Keep up the good work!
Hi Kyle, thanks for the review! What is your take on the 064S with SSP multi-purpose burrs vs the 078S with stock burrs for espresso and for filter--have you compared and do you have any preferences?
Really appreciate this video, Kyle! Awesome depth and glad you have called out the quirks that you encountered. I must admit I am even more delighted to have backed the 78s (and am still waiting for a huge rug pull to bring me right back down to earth...)
I love that you are not competitive with each other and you exchange knowledge about coffee You got it, i mean about your mention about lance's video 😉
64s is far easier to dial in for espresso with a better quality in the cup. But the 64s is a much more expensive grinder, especially after the Kickstarter price
Hi Kyle! One question. How much of an upgrade do you think the 078s is to the df64p i currently have? Should I just get SSP burrs for the df64p or just get the 078s? TIA
Very well outlined review. Strenghents my decision in going with the 078s. Just out of curiosity, how does the 078s compares taste wise for espresso vs the Lagom P100 with 98 mm HU? I believe you are the only person who has tried both grinders currently.
Hey! Thanks for that great review! I just missed a bit more Info on the SSP MP "upgrade" for the 64s... if i already have SSP MPs would that be the best "do it all" combo? (64s with SSP MP) Thx
So, maybe. The SSP MP are a fantastic burr, one of the best out there for filter. But it’s not very versatile, imo. I think the espresso it creates can be polarizing. Some love it, but many don’t. It lacks body and mouthfeel. If that’s alright with you or you just want crisp filter, for sure. Especially at the Kickstarter price. Variable rpm, 64mm and zero retention for $299 is a winner in my books. Maybe a different conversation at the full price in a few months.
Kept holding off on getting a Niche Zero and eventually ended up going with the 1zpresso K-max and love the coffee it brews. When the buzz started about a new grinder from Timemore, I started to reconsider getting an electric grinder. Only do pourer, but like knowing if I ever venture into espresso, I'll be ready with my 78s. Thanks to you and Lance for your review and setting my mind at ease about my choice!
Thank you Kyle, I’ve changed my Kickstarter pledge from the 64 to the 78s after watching your video. I only drink filter and don’t live in CA or the US, so I’m hoping that eventually I’ll be able to buy the turbo burrs separately. What convinced me to upgrade is the noice of the smaller unit and the peace of mind a stronger motor provides. Your thoughts on these grinders are very much appreciated.
Thanks for getting this video out! Really helps me feel better about bumping up to the 78S from the 64S. Keep up the slick editing, that intro was great!
I had the 64S backed and have been vacillating over switching to the 78S since. I hesitated because of the (currently) proprietary burr size, but given the overwhelmingly positive reception this grinder has received before even hitting the market, I don't think burr options will be limited for long. You sold me... This is YOUR fault! 🤣 I'll be happy to have a solid all-around grinder on the counter. I don't need the best of the best... Much better than the average bear at $500 is tremendous and it will be hard to fixate on nit-picks or small imperfections at that value. Can't wait for it to ship... Just in time for summer 😂
I suspect you're right on the burr options point. If this thing delivers like I hope that it will (and appears to be), we should see some decent traction. There will be some money to be made by SSP or other off the back of this as a platform
Seems like the 078s burrs live up to the expectations. And being so close in dimensions to the 80 mm burrs from Ditting/Mahlkoenig/Weber, I assume its not that difficult for SSP to adjust their designs to 78 mm
A similar burr comparison would be the SSP Multipurpose (MP) vs the Ode Gen 2 flavor profile, except 078 is said to be juicier and less thin compared to the SSP MP. I think a lot of it really comes down to what style of pour over you are going for. High clarity with more pronounced acidity and delineation of flavors (low fines / unimodal/078) vs a more traditional cup profile w/ medium fines and a bit more body and texture (078s). Also 078s would probably be a better burr style for those drinking medium-dark to dark roast. I never really enjoyed darker roasted coffees on unimodal styled burrs
I actually back 64s. Cause I have extra ssp burrs from my df64.. but after hearing the sound coming out from the 64s change my mind… I change and back 78s instead.. u are a saver!!!
Nice review thank you, I am wondering if the 64 is better than the 78s for pour over. The 78s would give me the ability to do espresso in the future but I do only poor overs rm.
While I haven’t tested, based on their particle analyzer on their Kickstarter (If it’s true) the 78s looks to be the better of the two. But again… that’s just data.
Thank you very much for the great review (as always 😊) How would you compare the 64s to the Lagom Mini, for a first time grinder? I know they are totally different types of grinders (flat vs conical), but it seems to me that both are all purpose grinders with a similar price tag..
Woo! I've been eagerly anticipating this one for the 078s. Sounds like a big hitter for the price. Do you have an opinion on the 078s vs the DF83 for primarily espresso? Looks like the 078s is a clear winner in the low retention game. 🎉
I haven't tried the Timemore 078s yet, but DF83 is pretty great for the price (there's also the DF64V which is promising) definitely built better than the DF64, with less retention, the stock burrs are pretty smooth, and a good balance of body and flavour clarity. After initial break in period I think the flavour clarity increases a bit and it works better for filter coffee. All round good versatile grinder. It's also super fast to grind. One thing which has improved but it still potentially a problem since the DF83 grinds so fast the declumper holds back the coffee and I believe it contributes to generating more fines, so removing one layer of the declumper screen is recommended if you prefer higher flavour clarity. I did that for mine and also noticed less retention, I usually don't bother using the bellows anymore, it's about 0.4g retention you can get out with the bellows. One advantage the DF83 has, is that you CAN upgrade to higher clarity SSP Espresso burrs, and there is SSP Lab Sweet style and other alternative 83mm burrs coming out as well so you have some options. With the success of the Timemore 078 (seems pretty popular so far!) there may be more options for that grinder too for burr upgrades down the road, but there's currently no 2 bolt 78mm burrs besides their own, luckily they seem pretty good from what we see here! The potential benefit of the Timemore 078s, it might be cleaner/neater (maybe not the DF83 v2 has a anti-static electrode thing now I believe). 078s it has variable RPM which does make a difference but the range isn't SO huge, I think you would see a difference usually lower RPM = higher flavour clarity, less fines, less body. Higher RPM = more body, more bitterness potentially, more body. So it's neat to play with and see how the same grinder and burr set can give slightly different results for the same coffee. The other thing which may be the biggest potential advantage for the 078s is the Auger / Prebreaker feeding system so you get a steady consistent flow with the weight of the beans in the hopper (even a tiny single dose hopper) being taken out of the equation. There's also the Zerno which has that design and seems very well built but it's twice the price, and no variable RPM on that one. I was worried about TImemore being new to the flat burr electric grinder market, and making their own different looking burr style seemed a bit risky rather than just using SSPs or some existing company, but it seems like they did a good job, so I think you'd be happy with either. It's a great time to get into coffee, there's more relatively high quality relatively low budget competitive options out these days than ever before, I think we have the DF64 to thank for that actually :D As well as the Niche Zero I'm sure.
There are all the 80 mm Burrs with 2 bolts, as well AS the 65 mm burrs. And since 78 mm is not far from 80 mm, we may have a chance of similar burrs from ssp for 78 mm.
3:00 They're kind of a mix between traditional flat burrs reminds me of the EK43/ SSP HU burrs or something with the edges being ghost burr type, so I think that's why/how they patented it, it's a bit of a hybrid. Not sure if they patented the regular looking 64mm burr though, that does seem pretty standard espresso burr style, the 78s 78mm version is a bit unique / odd looking. Pretty sure they limit the RPM to 800 because because the lack of power on the 64mm version (which isn't really that low of an RPM vs some other grinders, however, still a good range to add more versatility especially at this price point) , it takes a lot of torque / power to grind at lower RPM. However with the supposedly much more powerful 078 versions it should be capable of going much lower than 800, so not sure why they kept it the same.
It looked like the knocker, knocked out a good amount of retention at espresso range, did you weigh out how much it was? Seems like the knocker probably means no need for a bellows (which is a good thing). But I'm wondering if the extra bit is just retention or fines, if it's just some retention from the chute, I think you may as well include it in the espresso, so you're getting your 18g in 18g out (or close to it). if it's actually fines and you want more clarity then leave em out (maybe something to experiment with). The 078 sounds pretty decent I think, not a fan of how the 064 sounds! The Ode sounds pretty nice too. I hate when nice fancy grinders sound bad, I want a nice smooth quiet motor at least, even if the grinding sound is loud (*achem*, Weber Key) The issue with the burr chirp sound, I've had that on a few grinders, usually seems to happen going from coarser brew methods back to espresso, the DF64 and even Lagom P64 had that (I wouldn't think it would happen with an grinder with an auger), I found you need to clear out the stuck particle by going even more coarse and then if applicable, upping the rpm and/or using the bellows to clear it out, then you can go back to espresso setting just fine. I suspect it could happen on the 078 as well (unless tolerances are just that much tighter), but cool it hasn't happened in your testing!
I am a 64S backer and big reason I chose it was that I already own both the SSP MP and Lab Sweets that I been playing with on my Mazzer Mini A. I figured I would put the Lab Sweets in my 64S and keep it as my Filter Grinder while leaving the Mazzer Mini for Espresso.
@Kyle Roswell thank you awesome review! You mentioned the 064s has plenty resolution for dialing in espresso, but the 078s not so much. Did you encounter trouble dialing in?
The screw thread on the burr adjustment has a pitch of 0.6mm, that's how much it would move the burrs in one full rotation of the dial! That means that each 'tick' mark on the dial will move the burrs 0.003mm or 3 micros!
backed the 064s and I'm hoping it'll make a decent, first electric espresso grinder. I'm not too fussy with my espresso and tend to drink milk based drinks so it sounds like I made the right choice. thanks for the review!
I don’t often comment on your videos but this review was put together brilliantly! Thank you for the transparency and consumer focussed information. I doubt I will ever be able to afford any of these grinders but learning certainly helps me feel connected to the coffee community. Thank you for what you do, Kyle.
Locked in the 078S. I returned a Breville AIO unit after a few months in I began having issues with the built-in grinder. Since then, I have been doing pour overs and I really miss my espresso drinks and the workflow. I kept holding off on getting a new espresso setup because of gripes with other grinders, but it looks like this this ticks all the boxes, so this is pretty exciting stuff!
Thanks for the great review!❤ I do have a Turin DF83, but I'm not all around happy with it. I'm thinking of buying the 078S now. As you can compare the DF83 with the 078S, what would be your recommendation?
Is the longevity of the motor in the 064S a concern do you think? I want to get a grinder that will last a long time. Oh, and which color do you like better? Does the black or the white show grime and wear more than one another?
Just upped my pledge from the 064s to the 078s based on this review. I was okay with all of the cons you listed with the 064s until you did the sound comparison. That is a huge deciding factor for me with 3 young kids so thank you for doing that! I usually have to search across videos to try to figure out which sound will be least disruptive.
@@halliehallo100 yeah, I thought about that, but I'm hoping the production units will probably sound no worse than these and the sound of the 078s sounded like something I could be happy with.
So what would you say the difference in pour over taste wise is between the 64 & 64s? I mostly brew pour overs, but was curious about the flexibility in the future for grinding for espresso. I do have a hand grinder I can use, but is it worth it to stay 64 for a mostly pour over use, or should I get a more flexible grinder in the 64s at a loss of say sweetness/clarity?
I commented this separately but in case it helps anyone here: A similar burr comparison would be the SSP Multipurpose (MP) vs the Ode Gen 2 flavor profile, except 078 is said to be juicier and less thin compared to the SSP MP. I think a lot of it really comes down to what style of pour over you are going for. High clarity with more pronounced acidity and delineation of flavors (low fines / unimodal/078) vs a more traditional cup profile w/ medium fines and a bit more body and texture (078s). Also 078s would probably be a better burr style for those drinking medium-dark to dark roast. I never really enjoyed darker roasted coffees on unimodal styled burrs
@@Miikegross This is helpful, thank you. I've pledged for both to use as dedicated espresso and filter grinders. Coming from a hyper aligned Vario with steels that I'm tired of switching back and forth. I've never been completely satisfied with it on filter.
@@blaked205 I pledged for both also 😁 I’m pretty excited. I think the 078 is going to be pretty awesome for filter, and deliver in a lot of areas of flavor and workflow that were close but still lacking in my ODE + SSP grinder. The 078s will be my first flat burr grinder for espresso, and I’m expecting a night & day difference compared to the Sette 270 that I’ve used the past few years.
Would you recommend upgrading from a Lagom mini to either the 78s or the 64s? Or should I be saving for a pricier grinder to notice a bigger taste difference after the upgrade?
Thank you Kyle for an amazingly shot and quality video, as always! Additionally, really appreciate your attitude towards giving viewers your absolute honest thoughts on the product. Keep it up💪
I went with the 078s for the espresso. I already own the Ode gen 2 which I love for pour-over. It may be that n+1, where n is the number you already own, is the correct number of grinders.
Great video as always! The 078s is a very compelling grinder. I just purchased an Ode Gen 2, and hand grind for espresso. If I was looking for a grinder right now, I would probably back the 078S.
Great Video, thanks for reviewing, it makes me question my pledge for a 64s and maybe go for a 78s instead 😄 One point that I felt was missing from the review is your thoughts regarding swapping burrs with the 64s, it seems it works with SSP as well ? What are your thoughts regarding 64s with SSP, how does it compare with other grinders ?
Totally! I filmed this but cut it out as the video was getting far too long. The 64 ssp burrs work very well, and if I was to buy the 64 I’d buy the 64s and install mp ssp for a beast filter grinder with variable rpm (especially at Kickstarter pricing)
Thanks so much for great content and honest assessment! Validated my decision to jump from the Fellow odd ssp to the 078s especially to get my feet wet in some espresso!
Really appreciate your content. Would you say the 064s is better than an Eureka single dose ? I can get a fully rebuilt Eureka SD with a warranty for around 390 euros and I am not sure what to get.
Thanks for the review. I mainly make v60s with my virtuoso and occasional basic espressos with my bambino plus and figured the 64s may do a good job on both of my use cases. This was the first video of yours I watched and enjoyed very much. Thanks for the info!
Firstly thank you for the review. I initially backed the 064s but after your review now I switched to the 078s because I have been chasing that sweetness. I mostly do espresso but occasionally switch to pour over and based on your review it seems I would get better pour over with the 078s. Thank you again
Hello Kyle thank you for tour work. Do you think an eureka zero or specialita is better than the 78s for expresso ? Or do you have an advice for another brand who work well without too much noice please
Thanks for making this video. I wish (in a perfect world) it could’ve posted prior to the KS launch, but sometimes know that isn’t possible. Thanks for being super transparent with how this video worked. Looking forward to seeing a review of yours on the DF64V which I believe should give the 78S a run.
I backed the 78S on launch day although I just splurged on a Lagom P64, which I already adore. I will decide if I will stick with the 78S as a secondary grinder or cancel. I am tempted to keep it coming for the price for sure.
Hi Kyle. Great video. Do you have a noise comparison on the 78s vs something like the Niche? The niche is really quiet and a big factor in considering it
Thanks Kyle, you made my day! I'm a backer of the 64S, mostly pour-over with medium roast but I like a full bodied cup. Seems the 64S is right for me. Any thoughts on the hopper? both size and slope. Seems you had to nudge a bean or I might have been seeing things. Thanks Kyle!
Fantastic review Kyle ! Thanks for the amazing work, backed the 64s and the 78s and was waiting for the review to decide, think will go for the 64s ! Thanks a million !
@@ycming I was worried about the unability of the 64s to grind light roast, but apparently not an issue at an higher rpm. Dont think i'm willling to pay double just to grind light roast at 800rpm. Looks like the 78s is a beast thou...
Do the cups u grind in, fit into a E61 basket (like the niche zero one does for example) ? It makes it very easy to get coffee into ur basket after grinding
Thanks for the review. I've been meaning to get a new grinder and have been on the lookout for a few of them, including the timemore grinders. which would you recommend more if you were to compare the df64p against the 78s?
Watch it again and have my own conclusion If you are going for espresso . 078S,cuz 400W is very powerful and you don’t need to worry about any stall beam issues If you are going for pour over, 064. Cuz you don’t really need that power to crush beans. I was choosing 078 for the pour over, but I choose 064 eventually. Cuz I believe that it is not worth to spend 250 more if I just focus on filter coffee. ( I believe I won’t do espresso in 5 to 10 years at least) I hope my conclusion could help someone out
Thank you for doing this review and have been waiting for the espresso review of it. I backed the 78s on Kickstarter, but was torn between that and the 78 turbo burrs for the great reviews I've seen. I would love to buy one of each but doubt it. May just buy the Turbo burrs separate and use both. Would that cause problems with alignment all the time? I do not know that much about grinders or changing burrs. Thank you.
I couldn’t buy the 064s with it running so close to the edge that slowing the RPM down a bit overloads it / causes shutdown. Needs more overhead (more powerful motor), can’t imagine it will last if it’s being pushed to it’s limit every time you grind. I’m pretty tempted to buy the 078. Nice review.
Hey Kyle, great video as always. Have currently got the fellow ode gen 1 with cast burrs and keen to get your thoughts whether the 078 would be a good upgrade? Definitely like the cleanliness that clicker feature provides but note the v2 ode seems pretty amazing also.
Great review, I backed for a 78s when they launched it since I can replace my Gen 1 Ode and Eurka Mignon Facile with it and sell them. I drink my espresso and filter coffee straight most of the time and it will basically be my end game grinder so seems it's a good pick.
Great video! What would be your pick on the 064S with stock burrs vs a DF64 (v4 or 5) with SSP HU? Does that change if you add the SSP HU into 064S? I'm primarily an espresso med/dark roast with milk drinker and they're both around the same budget.
Thanks for watching! Liking and subscribing are always easy ways to support the channel! Also here is a short video addressing further comments for comparative burr testing: ruclips.net/video/raEjrZsOntw/видео.html
Awesome video Kyle. Did you do some comparaison vs the Niche. I currently have a Niche and Im thinking pulling the trigger on the 78S.
Btw Looking forward to try your beans soon !
Thanks for your preview on these two grinders. Is there any chance you can include product dimensions in your gear reviews? Usually you can find them on their respective websites but sometimes they are lacking or appear inaccurate. The whole will it fit aspect can't be underestimated.
@@walkerck They are on the Kickstarter page
@@jacquesolivierv I've seen the numbers there but they don't appear to be correct as far as my eyes can tell.
Hi Kyle, whats your take on this new sculptor 64S compare with DF64? Is it worth upgrading from DF64 with stock steel burr to this 64S?
Thanks Kyle! I appreciate your passion and review. As always, you've clarified the differences. Thanks for your integrity.
I appreciate that! Thanks for watching
Respect for doing this without it being sponsored and an excellent review comparison as always. Thanks!
I appreciate that!
The Timemore C2 basically got me through my last few university years, and now that I have an actual income, the Kickstarter price of the 78S seemed like just the right thing to stretch my budget a bit and get something really great for the price. Very glad to see that I don't have to face any buyers remorse about backing it just yet.
I backed the 064s a week ago, and just couldn't wait for a recension. Thank you! This will be my first electric grinder, I only have conical hand grinders for now. I'm getting tired of hand grinding. 😂 I mostly brew espresso, and I think 064s would be a right choice.
I too am going to upgrade my good old comandante for this. Loowing forward to see the effect it has on espresso quality
I backed the 78S and it sounds like that was a wise choice. It will be used next to my Niche for espresso, although at some point one will likely have to go. Can't wait to experience the flat burr difference for both espresso and filter. Great review, Kyle!
ok
I use both Comandante and Lagom P64 with SSP MP and the difference is easily noticeable for both filter and espresso.
@@dtonpbac you mentioned there is a noticable difference, which one do you like more?
@@HaaniJaber I usually drink light~light/med-roasted coffee for both filter and espresso so I prefer the enhanced clarity that I get from SSP MP flat burrs. But even for dark roasts especially when I do filters, SSP MP burr creates much less bitterness due to more uniform grind profiles so I prefer that as well.
I just remembered how MUCH I missed your reviews after watching this video Kyle.
Super excited to receive 078 seems like a very nice grinder. Can't wait to discuss more about it in the discord!
Thanks Arian!
1000% agree
Great review! Been waiting for that! Thanks!! Only thing that fell a bit short was how the 64s with the SSP MP burrs did taste and performancewise compared to the standard 64s burr and also the 78s . Cheers
Interesting point. For me especially 64s with SSP vs 078s for filter
I had filmed this but the video was over 30min long. And I felt most people would appreciate this as a separate video, which we will do in a comparison in the future.
@@KyleRowsell Great! Looking forward to that review! So just for a quick hint… u think i should stick to my plan of using SSP MPs (that i already own) and put them in the 64s that i backed?! I want to do everything from Espresso to french press with the grinder. Do you think there is a better option for that within the Sculptor grinder family?!
@@QuentinPeters87 Also just added a short to address this question. You can watch it here: ruclips.net/video/raEjrZsOntw/видео.html
@@KyleRowsell Awesome thx!!
I’m so glad I watched this. The sound of the coffee grinding in the 64 killed me on the inside sadly 😂. I switched my pledge to the 78S
Same here🎉🎉🎉🎉
Same for the DF64V, it is screaming like hell😂
@@kulbertistvan I've been in love with the DF64V for its looks and promise for a while now, but after the first reviews I got so turned off by the noise it made! I have now backed the 78S. Felling good about it!
Same although my wallet was like "bro?"
Exactly the same here!
Merci!
Great video as always, Kyle. I backed the 064s already and you pretty much addressed everything I was curious about. Definitely gave me some peace of mind about my decision. Thank you!
Thanks Kyle! I backed the 78S to lock in that $499 price, and I was hoping someone would get a review in before the kickstarter closed. I am now confident in my choice. Also, I really enjoyed September Coffee when I first received it, but I was amazed how much better it was a couple weeks after receiving it. It definitely benefits from resting (which is so hard to do when you are excited about a new coffee). Keep up the good work!
Glad you enjoyed it! And thanks.
Such a detailed review. Great stuff and appreciate the honesty and transparency. Wishing you luck with your new company!
Thanks!
Thanks for the review! Planning to get the 078s as I like to drink straight.
Hi Kyle, thanks for the review! What is your take on the 064S with SSP multi-purpose burrs vs the 078S with stock burrs for espresso and for filter--have you compared and do you have any preferences?
Agree! SSP MP vs. 078S? Do you think 078 turbo are different enough to buy both 078 and 078s?
Thanks Kyle!
Thanks for this! I now feel better about my backing choice of the 78s.
Happy to help!
Wow Kyle coming back with the review we’ve been waiting for.
👋
I really want a 078, but i just bought an ode gen 2 😢.
@@peterlin6419 ode is sick! Don’t regret, just enjoy and buy good coffee.
@@KyleRowsell for sure. Thanks for the review all the same!
happy to see I'm probably right to have preordered the 78S. I have to say the black version looks so much better than the white imo.
Really appreciate this video, Kyle! Awesome depth and glad you have called out the quirks that you encountered. I must admit I am even more delighted to have backed the 78s (and am still waiting for a huge rug pull to bring me right back down to earth...)
I love that you are not competitive with each other and you exchange knowledge about coffee
You got it, i mean about your mention about lance's video 😉
Yeah! Love lance. Thankful for all he’s done for the community, anyone who says otherwise is bitter ha
Glad i have pledged on 78s ... can't wait until June
Just backed the Kickstarter for the 078S about 2 hours before the video went up. Thanks for a great review and I'm excited to try the new grinder!
Have fun!
Kyle, a video I would sugest you to produce would be on how to align the 078s burrs. It would make sense when people get them on their hands!
How would you compare the 64s to the Fellow Opus? Being two budget range grinders that are supposed to be good at espresso.
64s is far easier to dial in for espresso with a better quality in the cup. But the 64s is a much more expensive grinder, especially after the Kickstarter price
Hi Kyle! One question. How much of an upgrade do you think the 078s is to the df64p i currently have? Should I just get SSP burrs for the df64p or just get the 078s? TIA
Very well outlined review. Strenghents my decision in going with the 078s. Just out of curiosity, how does the 078s compares taste wise for espresso vs the Lagom P100 with 98 mm HU? I believe you are the only person who has tried both grinders currently.
Great question. I’ll do some more testing.
Hey! Thanks for that great review! I just missed a bit more Info on the SSP MP "upgrade" for the 64s... if i already have SSP MPs would that be the best "do it all" combo? (64s with SSP MP) Thx
So, maybe. The SSP MP are a fantastic burr, one of the best out there for filter. But it’s not very versatile, imo. I think the espresso it creates can be polarizing. Some love it, but many don’t. It lacks body and mouthfeel. If that’s alright with you or you just want crisp filter, for sure. Especially at the Kickstarter price. Variable rpm, 64mm and zero retention for $299 is a winner in my books. Maybe a different conversation at the full price in a few months.
@@KyleRowsell Awesome thanks! So you think the stock burr would be a more versatile option if i prefer espresso with more body/ mouthfeel?
Kept holding off on getting a Niche Zero and eventually ended up going with the 1zpresso K-max and love the coffee it brews. When the buzz started about a new grinder from Timemore, I started to reconsider getting an electric grinder. Only do pourer, but like knowing if I ever venture into espresso, I'll be ready with my 78s. Thanks to you and Lance for your review and setting my mind at ease about my choice!
Thank you Kyle, I’ve changed my Kickstarter pledge from the 64 to the 78s after watching your video. I only drink filter and don’t live in CA or the US, so I’m hoping that eventually I’ll be able to buy the turbo burrs separately. What convinced me to upgrade is the noice of the smaller unit and the peace of mind a stronger motor provides.
Your thoughts on these grinders are very much appreciated.
Have been waiting for weeks! Great vid Kyle
(Yes I watched it in 2x speed to get through it fast….)
Awesome! Thank you!
Thanks for getting this video out! Really helps me feel better about bumping up to the 78S from the 64S.
Keep up the slick editing, that intro was great!
Thanks Alex!
Great video! I backed both the 78S and 64S, exited to get my hands on them.
Enjoy!
I had the 64S backed and have been vacillating over switching to the 78S since. I hesitated because of the (currently) proprietary burr size, but given the overwhelmingly positive reception this grinder has received before even hitting the market, I don't think burr options will be limited for long. You sold me... This is YOUR fault! 🤣
I'll be happy to have a solid all-around grinder on the counter. I don't need the best of the best... Much better than the average bear at $500 is tremendous and it will be hard to fixate on nit-picks or small imperfections at that value.
Can't wait for it to ship... Just in time for summer 😂
I suspect you're right on the burr options point. If this thing delivers like I hope that it will (and appears to be), we should see some decent traction. There will be some money to be made by SSP or other off the back of this as a platform
Seems like the 078s burrs live up to the expectations. And being so close in dimensions to the 80 mm burrs from Ditting/Mahlkoenig/Weber, I assume its not that difficult for SSP to adjust their designs to 78 mm
For the same price, and considering the 078s can do both, does the 078 turbo burr make much better filter coffee than 078s? Like how close is it?
A similar burr comparison would be the SSP Multipurpose (MP) vs the Ode Gen 2 flavor profile, except 078 is said to be juicier and less thin compared to the SSP MP.
I think a lot of it really comes down to what style of pour over you are going for. High clarity with more pronounced acidity and delineation of flavors (low fines / unimodal/078) vs a more traditional cup profile w/ medium fines and a bit more body and texture (078s). Also 078s would probably be a better burr style for those drinking medium-dark to dark roast. I never really enjoyed darker roasted coffees on unimodal styled burrs
Excited for the video. I backed a 78S to finally upgrade my Mignon that I've been not terribly happy with, like forever. June can't come soon enough!
Wow this video is legit and I'm barely 30 seconds in. Fantastic cinematography Kyle!
Thanks!
I actually back 64s. Cause I have extra ssp burrs from my df64.. but after hearing the sound coming out from the 64s change my mind… I change and back 78s instead.. u are a saver!!!
Nice review thank you, I am wondering if the 64 is better than the 78s for pour over. The 78s would give me the ability to do espresso in the future but I do only poor overs rm.
Im also keen for someone to give an 064 vs ode2 ssp (or any ode bur) for filter view!
While I haven’t tested, based on their particle analyzer on their Kickstarter (If it’s true) the 78s looks to be the better of the two. But again… that’s just data.
Love the rhythm and tone of you voice. Great video, BTW. A bit confusing, sometimes, but great.
Thanks! May I ask what was confusing?
I backed the 78S the day the kickstarter launched. SUPER stoked on this grinder - can't wait to get mine!
Thank you very much for the great review (as always 😊)
How would you compare the 64s to the Lagom Mini, for a first time grinder? I know they are totally different types of grinders (flat vs conical), but it seems to me that both are all purpose grinders with a similar price tag..
Woo! I've been eagerly anticipating this one for the 078s. Sounds like a big hitter for the price. Do you have an opinion on the 078s vs the DF83 for primarily espresso? Looks like the 078s is a clear winner in the low retention game. 🎉
Yes please Kyle what do you think about the 78S vs df83?
wondering the same here. I've had a DF83 in my cart for a while and I'm really hesitant with Kickstarter gear
Same here! I was about to purchase the df83! Now I'm indecisive! 🤔
I haven't tried the Timemore 078s yet, but DF83 is pretty great for the price (there's also the DF64V which is promising) definitely built better than the DF64, with less retention, the stock burrs are pretty smooth, and a good balance of body and flavour clarity. After initial break in period I think the flavour clarity increases a bit and it works better for filter coffee. All round good versatile grinder. It's also super fast to grind. One thing which has improved but it still potentially a problem since the DF83 grinds so fast the declumper holds back the coffee and I believe it contributes to generating more fines, so removing one layer of the declumper screen is recommended if you prefer higher flavour clarity. I did that for mine and also noticed less retention, I usually don't bother using the bellows anymore, it's about 0.4g retention you can get out with the bellows.
One advantage the DF83 has, is that you CAN upgrade to higher clarity SSP Espresso burrs, and there is SSP Lab Sweet style and other alternative 83mm burrs coming out as well so you have some options.
With the success of the Timemore 078 (seems pretty popular so far!) there may be more options for that grinder too for burr upgrades down the road, but there's currently no 2 bolt 78mm burrs besides their own, luckily they seem pretty good from what we see here!
The potential benefit of the Timemore 078s, it might be cleaner/neater (maybe not the DF83 v2 has a anti-static electrode thing now I believe). 078s it has variable RPM which does make a difference but the range isn't SO huge, I think you would see a difference usually lower RPM = higher flavour clarity, less fines, less body. Higher RPM = more body, more bitterness potentially, more body. So it's neat to play with and see how the same grinder and burr set can give slightly different results for the same coffee. The other thing which may be the biggest potential advantage for the 078s is the Auger / Prebreaker feeding system so you get a steady consistent flow with the weight of the beans in the hopper (even a tiny single dose hopper) being taken out of the equation. There's also the Zerno which has that design and seems very well built but it's twice the price, and no variable RPM on that one.
I was worried about TImemore being new to the flat burr electric grinder market, and making their own different looking burr style seemed a bit risky rather than just using SSPs or some existing company, but it seems like they did a good job, so I think you'd be happy with either. It's a great time to get into coffee, there's more relatively high quality relatively low budget competitive options out these days than ever before, I think we have the DF64 to thank for that actually :D As well as the Niche Zero I'm sure.
There are all the 80 mm Burrs with 2 bolts, as well AS the 65 mm burrs. And since 78 mm is not far from 80 mm, we may have a chance of similar burrs from ssp for 78 mm.
Have you tried the Gevi GrindMaster for a review?
3:00 They're kind of a mix between traditional flat burrs reminds me of the EK43/ SSP HU burrs or something with the edges being ghost burr type, so I think that's why/how they patented it, it's a bit of a hybrid. Not sure if they patented the regular looking 64mm burr though, that does seem pretty standard espresso burr style, the 78s 78mm version is a bit unique / odd looking.
Pretty sure they limit the RPM to 800 because because the lack of power on the 64mm version (which isn't really that low of an RPM vs some other grinders, however, still a good range to add more versatility especially at this price point) , it takes a lot of torque / power to grind at lower RPM. However with the supposedly much more powerful 078 versions it should be capable of going much lower than 800, so not sure why they kept it the same.
It looked like the knocker, knocked out a good amount of retention at espresso range, did you weigh out how much it was? Seems like the knocker probably means no need for a bellows (which is a good thing). But I'm wondering if the extra bit is just retention or fines, if it's just some retention from the chute, I think you may as well include it in the espresso, so you're getting your 18g in 18g out (or close to it). if it's actually fines and you want more clarity then leave em out (maybe something to experiment with).
The 078 sounds pretty decent I think, not a fan of how the 064 sounds! The Ode sounds pretty nice too. I hate when nice fancy grinders sound bad, I want a nice smooth quiet motor at least, even if the grinding sound is loud (*achem*, Weber Key) The issue with the burr chirp sound, I've had that on a few grinders, usually seems to happen going from coarser brew methods back to espresso, the DF64 and even Lagom P64 had that (I wouldn't think it would happen with an grinder with an auger), I found you need to clear out the stuck particle by going even more coarse and then if applicable, upping the rpm and/or using the bellows to clear it out, then you can go back to espresso setting just fine. I suspect it could happen on the 078 as well (unless tolerances are just that much tighter), but cool it hasn't happened in your testing!
I am a 64S backer and big reason I chose it was that I already own both the SSP MP and Lab Sweets that I been playing with on my Mazzer Mini A. I figured I would put the Lab Sweets in my 64S and keep it as my Filter Grinder while leaving the Mazzer Mini for Espresso.
You are really great at what you do Kyle. Thanks for a very informative and well composed video!
I appreciate that!
@Kyle Roswell thank you awesome review! You mentioned the 064s has plenty resolution for dialing in espresso, but the 078s not so much. Did you encounter trouble dialing in?
The screw thread on the burr adjustment has a pitch of 0.6mm, that's how much it would move the burrs in one full rotation of the dial! That means that each 'tick' mark on the dial will move the burrs 0.003mm or 3 micros!
backed the 064s and I'm hoping it'll make a decent, first electric espresso grinder. I'm not too fussy with my espresso and tend to drink milk based drinks so it sounds like I made the right choice. thanks for the review!
Hope you enjoy it!
I don’t often comment on your videos but this review was put together brilliantly! Thank you for the transparency and consumer focussed information. I doubt I will ever be able to afford any of these grinders but learning certainly helps me feel connected to the coffee community. Thank you for what you do, Kyle.
Glad it was helpful!
Will you be reviewing the Turin DF64v that’s coming out soon?
Yep!
Locked in the 078S. I returned a Breville AIO unit after a few months in I began having issues with the built-in grinder. Since then, I have been doing pour overs and I really miss my espresso drinks and the workflow. I kept holding off on getting a new espresso setup because of gripes with other grinders, but it looks like this this ticks all the boxes, so this is pretty exciting stuff!
Thanks for the great review!❤ I do have a Turin DF83, but I'm not all around happy with it. I'm thinking of buying the 078S now. As you can compare the DF83 with the 078S, what would be your recommendation?
Is the longevity of the motor in the 064S a concern do you think? I want to get a grinder that will last a long time. Oh, and which color do you like better? Does the black or the white show grime and wear more than one another?
Just upped my pledge from the 064s to the 078s based on this review. I was okay with all of the cons you listed with the 064s until you did the sound comparison. That is a huge deciding factor for me with 3 young kids so thank you for doing that! I usually have to search across videos to try to figure out which sound will be least disruptive.
It’s a preproduction unit, I’m not sure if the sound is the normal intended one.
@@halliehallo100 yeah, I thought about that, but I'm hoping the production units will probably sound no worse than these and the sound of the 078s sounded like something I could be happy with.
Are the results for espresso from the 064s comparable to the Lagom P64 if not is the 078s closer?
Timemore 64s or fellow opus for currently filter brews and soon espressos
So what would you say the difference in pour over taste wise is between the 64 & 64s? I mostly brew pour overs, but was curious about the flexibility in the future for grinding for espresso. I do have a hand grinder I can use, but is it worth it to stay 64 for a mostly pour over use, or should I get a more flexible grinder in the 64s at a loss of say sweetness/clarity?
Can’t wait for my 078s now. Thanks!
Thanks for watching
How would you directly compare the 078 and 078s for filter? Thanks so much for the video!
Also interested in this. Bonus points for Ode SSP MP vs either of the Timemore Big Boys
Also interested in Kyles response. I backed the 078, but wondering if I should of backed the 078s. I mainly just do pourovers.
I commented this separately but in case it helps anyone here:
A similar burr comparison would be the SSP Multipurpose (MP) vs the Ode Gen 2 flavor profile, except 078 is said to be juicier and less thin compared to the SSP MP.
I think a lot of it really comes down to what style of pour over you are going for. High clarity with more pronounced acidity and delineation of flavors (low fines / unimodal/078) vs a more traditional cup profile w/ medium fines and a bit more body and texture (078s). Also 078s would probably be a better burr style for those drinking medium-dark to dark roast. I never really enjoyed darker roasted coffees on unimodal styled burrs
@@Miikegross This is helpful, thank you. I've pledged for both to use as dedicated espresso and filter grinders. Coming from a hyper aligned Vario with steels that I'm tired of switching back and forth. I've never been completely satisfied with it on filter.
@@blaked205 I pledged for both also 😁 I’m pretty excited. I think the 078 is going to be pretty awesome for filter, and deliver in a lot of areas of flavor and workflow that were close but still lacking in my ODE + SSP grinder.
The 078s will be my first flat burr grinder for espresso, and I’m expecting a night & day difference compared to the Sette 270 that I’ve used the past few years.
Such a lovely and well structured review, and straight to the points. Just got a new subscriber. Thanks for the video!
Thanks for watching!
Thanks for this, this was helpful! Got the 064s on order.
Glad I could help!
Would you recommend upgrading from a Lagom mini to either the 78s or the 64s? Or should I be saving for a pricier grinder to notice a bigger taste difference after the upgrade?
Thank you Kyle for an amazingly shot and quality video, as always! Additionally, really appreciate your attitude towards giving viewers your absolute honest thoughts on the product. Keep it up💪
Thanks 🙏
I went with the 078s for the espresso. I already own the Ode gen 2 which I love for pour-over. It may be that n+1, where n is the number you already own, is the correct number of grinders.
Great video as always!
The 078s is a very compelling grinder. I just purchased an Ode Gen 2, and hand grind for espresso. If I was looking for a grinder right now, I would probably back the 078S.
Hi Kyle. Thanks for this informative video. What are your thoughts between the Turin DF83 and the Timemore 078S?
Great Video, thanks for reviewing, it makes me question my pledge for a 64s and maybe go for a 78s instead 😄
One point that I felt was missing from the review is your thoughts regarding swapping burrs with the 64s, it seems it works with SSP as well ? What are your thoughts regarding 64s with SSP, how does it compare with other grinders ?
Totally! I filmed this but cut it out as the video was getting far too long.
The 64 ssp burrs work very well, and if I was to buy the 64 I’d buy the 64s and install mp ssp for a beast filter grinder with variable rpm (especially at Kickstarter pricing)
@@KyleRowsell would you do 64s + ssp mp burrs or just go to a 78s for a combo filter/espresso grinder?
@@harrisonsmith345 78s at the Kickstarter price. The 78s is a much better machine - the build quality is superior.
@@KyleRowsell thank you for your response !
Thanks so much for great content and honest assessment! Validated my decision to jump from the Fellow odd ssp to the 078s especially to get my feet wet in some espresso!
Enjoy!
Really appreciate your content. Would you say the 064s is better than an Eureka single dose ? I can get a fully rebuilt Eureka SD with a warranty for around 390 euros and I am not sure what to get.
Thanks for the review. I mainly make v60s with my virtuoso and occasional basic espressos with my bambino plus and figured the 64s may do a good job on both of my use cases. This was the first video of yours I watched and enjoyed very much. Thanks for the info!
Firstly thank you for the review. I initially backed the 064s but after your review now I switched to the 078s because I have been chasing that sweetness. I mostly do espresso but occasionally switch to pour over and based on your review it seems I would get better pour over with the 078s. Thank you again
Thanks for watching
Time to up my grinder. Been long enough with the Baratza Encore.
Hello Kyle thank you for tour work. Do you think an eureka zero or specialita is better than the 78s for expresso ? Or do you have an advice for another brand who work well without too much noice please
Thanks for making this video. I wish (in a perfect world) it could’ve posted prior to the KS launch, but sometimes know that isn’t possible. Thanks for being super transparent with how this video worked.
Looking forward to seeing a review of yours on the DF64V which I believe should give the 78S a run.
I wish I could have too! Thanks for watching!
Isn’t the kickstarter still live? I just backed the 78s today after watching Kyles review! :)
I backed the 78S on launch day although I just splurged on a Lagom P64, which I already adore. I will decide if I will stick with the 78S as a secondary grinder or cancel. I am tempted to keep it coming for the price for sure.
I bet on the 78S right at the Kickstarter launch. Thanks for the encouragement!
You bet!
Great video! So glad that I came across this video, last 2 days for the discount price 😊
Hi Kyle. Great video. Do you have a noise comparison on the 78s vs something like the Niche? The niche is really quiet and a big factor in considering it
The niche is the quietest. I have a large comparison on the way.
@@KyleRowsell Looking forward to that video!
Thanks Kyle, you made my day! I'm a backer of the 64S, mostly pour-over with medium roast but I like a full bodied cup. Seems the 64S is right for me. Any thoughts on the hopper? both size and slope. Seems you had to nudge a bean or I might have been seeing things. Thanks Kyle!
Glad, i backed the 78s i originally chose 64s and update it. Cant wait for june for the fullfillment.
I have a Niche and I want to wait and see what 78s offers that is better or different than the Niche. Hoping for more comparative reviews.
Fantastic review Kyle !
Thanks for the amazing work, backed the 64s and the 78s and was waiting for the review to decide, think will go for the 64s !
Thanks a million !
Nice! Enjoy
why ? is it because mainly milk drink you make
I am currently backing.both too
@@ycming I was worried about the unability of the 64s to grind light roast, but apparently not an issue at an higher rpm.
Dont think i'm willling to pay double just to grind light roast at 800rpm. Looks like the 78s is a beast thou...
Do the cups u grind in, fit into a E61 basket (like the niche zero one does for example) ? It makes it very easy to get coffee into ur basket after grinding
Thanks for the review. I've been meaning to get a new grinder and have been on the lookout for a few of them, including the timemore grinders. which would you recommend more if you were to compare the df64p against the 78s?
Thanks for this in-depth review! I backed the 078S and am even more hyped for it now!
Glad I could help!
Watch it again and have my own conclusion
If you are going for espresso . 078S,cuz 400W is very powerful and you don’t need to worry about any stall beam issues
If you are going for pour over, 064. Cuz you don’t really need that power to crush beans.
I was choosing 078 for the pour over, but I choose 064 eventually.
Cuz I believe that it is not worth to spend 250 more if I just focus on filter coffee. ( I believe I won’t do espresso in 5 to 10 years at least)
I hope my conclusion could help someone out
But no one has even tried the 064 turbo burrs and reviewed them yet, so it's hard to say that this is accurate.
Thank you for doing this review and have been waiting for the espresso review of it. I backed the 78s on Kickstarter, but was torn between that and the 78 turbo burrs for the great reviews I've seen. I would love to buy one of each but doubt it. May just buy the Turbo burrs separate and use both. Would that cause problems with alignment all the time? I do not know that much about grinders or changing burrs. Thank you.
I couldn’t buy the 064s with it running so close to the edge that slowing the RPM down a bit overloads it / causes shutdown. Needs more overhead (more powerful motor), can’t imagine it will last if it’s being pushed to it’s limit every time you grind. I’m pretty tempted to buy the 078. Nice review.
My 078 is coming on monday 🙌
Thank you for the video. How is the grinding speed?
Miss your weekly uploads! Keep em coming, great review!
We’ve been busy with Septembers launch. Weekly vids will be back!
Great video! Would you pick the 064s over the df64 gen 2? I primarily brew for espresso.
Hey Kyle, great video as always. Have currently got the fellow ode gen 1 with cast burrs and keen to get your thoughts whether the 078 would be a good upgrade? Definitely like the cleanliness that clicker feature provides but note the v2 ode seems pretty amazing also.
I was considering this, but then I saw the DF64v and pre-ordered right away (currently have a DF64).
Have you seen that around yet?
Wow it seems these grinders more or less are as good as promised!
Rarely the case, but here we are!
Great review, I backed for a 78s when they launched it since I can replace my Gen 1 Ode and Eurka Mignon Facile with it and sell them. I drink my espresso and filter coffee straight most of the time and it will basically be my end game grinder so seems it's a good pick.
the bottle line for taste and best grinder on the market to day is the ek`43 hands down
The noise comparison between the 3 really sold me on the 78s
Thanks a lot sir for your review and for your honesty 🙏 ❤
Thanks for watching
Great video! What would be your pick on the 064S with stock burrs vs a DF64 (v4 or 5) with SSP HU? Does that change if you add the SSP HU into 064S? I'm primarily an espresso med/dark roast with milk drinker and they're both around the same budget.
Df64 is twice the price lol