Eric, this will probably never got back to you but it needs saying. There are so many wrestling fans out there that know what you've done. You changed wcw and wrestling by making change and pioneering the way wrestling shows and storylines are constructed and presented. A lot of us have waited a long time to not only hear an opinion different to the usual stance WWE take as the victors but also to hear what you and wcw did right. It's very touching. Thanks so much man. Hopefully one day someone can dive into all the new things you and wcw did in wrestling that are still being used today from how promos and interviews are filmed, how the show is constructed and shot, the style of storylines and much more. We love you man, thanks for everything. Great to see you get your recognition and some closure, you deserve it
Same! Party because me and so many others have such a strong connection as fans to that era of wrestling. The nostalgia watching this vice special absolutely wrecked me!
Eric, if you're reading this I just wanted to give you credit for something that I don't think I've ever heard mentioned. Yes, the formation of the nWo was brilliant, the build up, presentation and execution at Bash '96 was all perfection. I just watched 6-8 weeks of Nitro/PPVs and it was even better than I remember. But what you did specifically and uniquely well was you put over Hall and Nash immediately over big, established "WCW" guys. That's part of why Vince's invasion angle didn't work. He didn't want to put over another promotion's incoming talent that might make "his guys" look weak or inferior. Instead you booked Hall and Nash incredibly strong and therefore it elevated not only them but even some of the talent that did the job for them. In my mind, that's a largely overlooked portion of what made the nWo angle work. Great, great booking.
Eric will never, ever get the credit he deserves. He was the only one to ever achieve success with WCW, the fact under the circumstances he was able to take a brand that was considered less than nothing in the public conciseness and become the leader in its marketplace, let alone best WWE in some business metrics is a monumental achievement. In any other industry he would be celebrated, except for this one where the narrative is controlled by bad faith pseudo 'journalists' like Meltzer and Alverez or by the WWE (Who have a vested interest in putting over their legacy, not WCW). So after the years of BS narrative from BS journalists, Wrestling personalities who had no knowledge of the inner workings of WCW, and WWE, it's nice to see a document that acknowledges, hey this guy did something monumental.... It was more than an 83 week ratings streak, before that streak Eric had dragged WCW from the ashes and after that streak, while the booking was off its peak, lets not act like WCW wasn't creating compelling television (and doing good business) up until he spring of '99. I will be forever grateful for what WCW provided me as a fan in 1995,1996,1997,1998 and the first half of 1999. The truth of the matter is the success of WCW rose and fell depending on the success Hulk Hogan had in WCW, that bears out with every single business metric, so I give Eric a lot of grace in his relationship with Hulk (and certainly in hindsight better booking decisions could have been made)... Quite simply Vince Russo is a complete idiot not wanting/understanding how to utilize the biggest star in wrestling. In 2002 Hulk proved he still had what it took in WWE , somehow Vince McMahon, Eric Bischoff, and even Verne Gagne could make money with Hulk Hogan, but not Vince Russo, I'm not surprised.
For 20 years my answer to "Who Killed WCW?" has been one name: Jamie Kellner. This 4-part series did NOT change my mind. Very well done documentary series though. Thumbs UP from The Card Shop in Bastrop, Louisiana!
Siegl I feel is lying. He helped Kellner pull the plug on WCW & you can say is reason WCW sold it to Vince for peanuts. Something doesn't add up. The only higher up that really cared was Jamie. She came across as a sweet heart & Genuine
@jeffreymiller9808 Selling WCW for cheap is bad & pathetic where Eric & his group was offering so much more. They could have sold it Eric's group & give them 2-3 years to turn a profit. I no longer Blame Eric for being part of reason why WCW went under. Maybe part of reason why WCW lost Monday Night Wars
In the end, it was Ted Turner losing control of his company is why WCW was cancelled and closed. The other reasons didnt help, but in the end their loingtime savior was unable to stop it this time.
Ted Turner was a good Man, when these Corporate Mergers take place people who have no interest in divisions make hasty decisions. Hearing about the loss of your Father at this time makes me empathetic to how things turned out in the End. On the other hand it Wasn’t so bad to have Booker T close as Champion.
Ted Turner was a good Man, when these Corporate Mergers take place people who have no interest in divisions make hasty decisions. Hearing about the loss of your Father at this time makes me empathetic to how things turned out in the End. On the other hand it Wasn’t so bad to have Booker T close as Champion.
@@jeffreymiller9808WWF signing Gangrel to elevate Edge and WCW making Booker T World Champion are proof that Vince Russo isn't a complete fuck up. Doesn't stop him from still being a fuck up though.
Eric Bischoff deserves a lot of credit for turning WCW around in early 90's & and starting up the Mondays Night Wars. Bischoff forced Vince to adapt how the WWF presented its product to an ediger product & giving us the best era in wrestling. Did Bischoff make mistakes? Yes & I am sure he wishes he could have done some things different but Bischoff isnt the only reason why WCW went under. There are many other factors from higher ups in Turner who hated wrestling to the merger of Time Warner & AOL to Hogan having way too much creative control to Vince Russo's awful booking. Adding Thunder did not help WCW. Having Nitro being 3 hours hurt it in the long run. It was better when it was 2 hours.
Because of Eric Bischoff - i dedicated myself to training to become a wrestler myself and i have been doing it for now for 7 years. I owe that to Eric. I'm grateful to Eric. Eric deserves waaaaay more credit than some give him. As The Rock said, he's solidified FIRMLY on the Mount Rushmore of wrestling execs. Thank you Eric
After watching this 4 part series, and listening to everyones perspective whether it be on the documentary or on podcasts. I personally think and have thought since reading Guy Evans book, that WCW was not given enough support at the corporate level once the merger with AOL was even just a twinkle in their eye
The Answer to who killed WCW is 1000% aol time warner. When Russo left wcw millions still watched Nitro. And like how TNA is still alive now, WCW would have been around today had it been around and had a tv deal. Though the only mistake was even though turner was sabotaging them off the network, WCW could have got another tv deal had Eric bought it with fusion. TNA's survival proves that WCW would have been able to get another tv deal. But if wcw survived TNA would never have existed.
I cried seeing Eric watching nash making his statements and seeing raw emotion in eyes and face of somebody in my young years loved to hate made it hard not to tear up as well 😢
I thought he always got respect. He got hired by the guy who he was threatening to beat up and put out of business. My takeaway was they can't blame everything on Russo like these clowns have been doing. Truth is, WCW was always 2nd outside of 2 years and went back to that. After the NWO got stale and ran into the ground, people went to WWF and stayed. That ship was sinking around early to mid 99. Probably really late 98.
Madusa, guy evans, Goldberg, and brad Siegel pretty much in my opinion summed up the fall. It was caused by multiple people and multiple channels. You have the merger and executives who did not like this product representing the turner brand, and you have poor decisions, awful communication, and just compete dog eat dog behavior from the talent that made the final decision from the executives easy. You have guys who could not on their best day sell out a Taco Bell bathroom, but are making a ton of cash and either don’t come to work, file ridiculous harassment and discrimination lawsuits( as if anyone ever tuned in at any point in life in any organization to watch them), people who don’t draw ratings getting first class flights, hotels, and rental cars paid for by the company, and everyone just out for themself and their pockets. Again, the executives wanted wcw gone, but the talent made that a very easy decision.
When I hear about Jamie Kellner, I just see him as a player on the stage. I'm not impressed with his wealth or his cars. I just knew he killed a lot of joy for a lot of wrestling fans. And when he passed away, all that wealth, he couldn't take it with him. Puts a lot of things into perspective.
I was also a WCW/NWA fan moreso than a WWF fan. Great series and nice to hear all perspectives of what happened. I am curious why Eric didn’t take on supporting TNA after WCW had ended.
Nobody ever talks about the people who stopped watching wrestling after WCW shut down but kept playing WWE video games and recreating the WCW roster and story lines. 😊
After watching the transition from the Bischoff era to the Russo era of WCW, there's no doubt in my mind. Russo came with a purpose, and that was to destroy WCW. That, or he simply had no clue, which is possible. All my opinion, of course.
Eric got me to watching WC,W again in tv,going to see wcw tv tapings live ,and attending wcw house shows including STING VS BRET Memphis first time ever 98 msc 8000 attending.thanks Eric and Dave, when i saw my first live nitro ,people asking you in the ring where's Lawler I'm memphis for life but i laughed out loud when you said "hes at the flea market." Thanks Dave
It just dawned on me just how critical corporate control was in deciding the fate of WCW. WWE was in the same slump in the late 2000s. Imagine if, for some reason, Vince Mcmahon lost control of his company and the ones who took over decided to shut it down. Who'd people blame? Vince? Bruce? The GMs? Johnny Ace? We'd still be picking apart that story until today.
With a guy like Hogan who is very protective of his spot, you have to pitch the whole story. "You lose the belt at this event and get it back at this event. This is how you fall down, this is how you get up." Trying to reassure delicate egos would be something he needs to learn in his position.
Shame they couldn't get Kellner. Because the question always was if WCW had higher ratings/ profitability if it had actually mattered. Probably not as Kellner just didn't want it on his channels and the other execs helped him remove it from his channels.
With the things WWE covered up in its history, from steroids to the Ring Boy scandal, to now the Janel Grant saga, it would not surprise me that they would commit SEC violations in killing the Fusient deal.
What Eric did is turn WCW into the leader rather than the also-ran. It is interesting that people in charge of stuff like television cannot see a bigger picture. Keeping WCW going and rejuvenating it would have been worthwhile as it would have kept the network's unique personality and appeal. The viewers then spill into other offerings that execs want people to watch. Sometimes it is worth it to keep a "less desirable" property going due to the halo effect it brings. It would have been easier to make WCW a success again than to replace it with programing people do not want to watch. It added variety to the channel. Turner may have been a fan, but he also had an understanding of the innate value of something people can easily look down upon. One problem wrestling had/has is it will not attract the first-rate writing talent. At the same time, you just need good writers, not necessarily great, who have a love of the artform to raise it to more successful levels. They need to understand what works and have the ability to be creative without going to outside of the boundaries of what can work in the ring.
I was watching Fastlane 2015 today and totally saw Conrad in the front row while Sting was pushing a bat into Triple Hs throat. How many damn live shows has Conrad been in the very front row for?! Im honestly jealous.
I take Booker T's comments with the smallest grain of salt. He did not have a good time towards the end of WCW, he doesn't look back on that time fondly and he attributes perceived grievances to individuals.
Well, Booker's stance comes from the fact he was told he was winning the world title, Then Hogan pulling creative control to change it and Eric for numerous reasons siding with Hogan I can understand Bookers argument. He likely felt slapped in the face by that Hogan creative control card play and Eric backing it. Hogan did hold Booker back no matter how anyone spins that point of it. Because while Hogan was still a attraction in 2000. He shouldnt have been the champion and main attraction anymore. He should have been in top spots helping other talent get over the way that Andre and others did for him. And i was always a fan of Hogan. But he was out for himself primarily and only ever put over a select few guys and when he did he always usually took his win back later .
I heard Bischoff’s side and I’ve heard Vince’s side and Eric’s side always made the most logical sense to me. At the end of the day if Time Warner wanted WCW,it would’ve stayed because even with WCW at its worst,they still had some of the highest viewing numbers on TNT so the fans were still there.
You would have to be a true wrestling fan at that time to really know and feel how powerful and impactful that time was for pro wrestling! There was just nothing like it! I had the Monday Night Wars dvd and have watched several videos about the death of WCW and the details of everything that happened still intrigues me. Many factors contributed to the ultimate demise of the company but knowing all the behind the scenes stuff just hits different. It was truly the best time to be a wrestling fan!
Watching that Nitro/Raw 20+ yrs stills baffles me…I watched that historical moment live and knew Wrestling was never going to be same. I hope to be around to watch the final Raw episode on USA and watch the 1st episode on Netflix. Surreal
Hey Conrad an Eric, serious question, what does it take for a regular nobody like me to sit with Eric at his home at the lake or anywhere infront of a decent fire pit with cooler full of beer an just talk about the good ol days of wrestling? I have followed Eric’s career ever since he walked on the set in AWA as announcer all the way to the end of Eric being tossed in garbage truck on WWE Raw. I think sitting an having cold beer talking in front of a nice warm fire just talking would be an amazing time. The one thing no one ever says about credit to Eric is out of every single wrestling promoter in the country from 80s to 90s til Eric started Nitro not one promoter gave Vinny Mac a run for his money as hard an come so close by meer possible months of putting him out of business. Eric was the only man that has ever done that. Doesn’t matter how he did it cuz if Vince had that chance he had done that to nitro in a heartbeat. Eric Bischoff because of NITRO changed the wrestling world as we know it now. Eric lit a fire under McMahon ass to force him to turn up the heat an do better. When Vince finally did, he blew the ratings off the chart. There’s a lot that Eric has done during that time that he’s not getting much credit for.
Only $4 million. It's a joke. The top talent could have bought it for that much, and it would have found a network within the year. This was a clear conspiracy to make sure WCW wasn't going to come back to life elsewhere.
Yeah, but you’ve got to understand, you pay $4 million for the company, and now you owe many more millions to pay the contracts of the talent. You have to find funding for the venues. The bills don’t stop coming in.
No, all that was for sale was the rings, the trademarks and the mid card talent. WCW was an organization. There is not much property. The tape library alone was worth 4 million. Vince also wanted them gone, it was his long held revenge since 1984 with Ted Turner.
After watching complete documentation of death of wcw leaves me with feeling of the orient express murder where everybody had a hand at the demise of the company and its left its imprint in the sands of infinite time😊 best times I remembered by far thanks Eric
WCW deserved at least a chance to survive on another TV network besides TBS/TNT, but the higher ups wanted it to not exist anymore so they sold it to Vince
To quote a source that Eric hates, (the Death of WCW by Rd Reynolds and Bryan Alverez) "Say what you will about Russo's overall writing, he writes a hell of an opening chapter" So that puts Russo over Tony Khan.
Someone sent me the the Meltzer/Alvarez response to episode three video. They were still trying to convince everyone that their narrative was right, with Meltzer dropping the names of dead promoters to try and validate his BS.
Jamie Kellner killed WCW - not Hogan, Bischoff, Russo or Nash. Even if WCW had higher ratings than the WWE from 1999 to 2000, Kellner would've still pulled the plug on WCW. His hatred for wrestling was huge.
WCW was like every TV show; beginning to grow your audience, the high points of ratings during series, the decline and eventually,all tv shows ends. WCW was no different.
A better title would’ve been the Rise and Fall of Bischoff’s WCW. If Vince McMahon invented what modern day pro wrestling/sports entertainment is today, Bischoff re-invented it during the Nitro Era.
Was disappointed that after the final episodes credits rolled it didn't cut back to Bret Hart saying Goldberg killed WCW after kicking him in the head.
Everyone talks about the wrong people when saying who killed WCW. It was Stone Cold Steve Austin.. How was WCW ever meant to compete when he was taking over the world on the other channel. Everyone switched and no one changed back or stopped riding that wave until his heel turn at Wrestlemania 17 at the earliest.
I agree that WWF and Austin were untouchable at that point. It wasn't singularly Stone Cold tho, cuz 3:16 was alive in 96/97/98 and fans were still choosing Nitro. It's once WCW dropped the ball, that WWF kept on scoring. Also, since you mention his heel turn, i'ma go off. His heel turn narrative bothers me. The creative in charge during Wrestlemania 17 couldn't write tv. They're the same creative that booked Austin as the Ringmaster. Who was in the room? Bruce Prichard in creative. And then had the nerve to say "Austin was no longer selling platinum records at that point." The same creative, Prichard and McMahon, that ordered Austin not talk and let Dibiase do the talking for him. He was successful under Russo but once Russo/Ferrara departed, it's like Raw turned into a Russo parody. And they just expected the talent to get themselves over. They guys had no idea what to do with Austin as a heel. And they couldn't write for him as a face either. That's why he walked in out in 02. Cuz creative sucked. The influencers say "you can't make John Wayne a bad guy". Dude, this is America. If it's written correctly, anyone can be a bad guy. Which then sets up the redemption story...when they become good again. Unfortunately creative at the time are the same guys that booked the Austin to capture Kevin Nash with a NET GUN. A gun that shot a NET. wtf. these were the guys that were going to successfully write Austin as a heel. no.
True. People won't talk about this but WCW was doing higher ratings in 1999 than in 1997 but WWF was getting so many non wrestling fans and doubling Nitro's rating. Even in 2000-01 the ratings were matching 1995-96's ratings
During the final episode when they explain how Eric was in the process to buy WCW and have a live show in Vegas . They talk about the show being televised on Turner Brodcasting . But didnt the Turner execs not want WCW on their progamming..can anyone clarify ?
I was a huge wrestling fan growing up in the 1980s. AWA, WCW, WWF. Flair, Hogan and the Road Warriors were my favorites and I watched whenever possible. But by the late 1980s and early 1990s wrestling had become stale, corny, not very interesting to someone hovering around the 18-24 year old mark. WWF especially was dumb with all the cartoon character non sense. Sure there was the occasional hit: Diesel winning the title of Backlund. But otherwise, with the AWA gone and WCW not on the radar, wrestling had one foot in the non-relevant grave. Then Eric and the NWO came along and it brought me back in. It brought millions in. People don't understand how huge it was! There were 8 and 10 million people watching Nitro at its peak and another 6 or 7 watching Raw! And we talk about 2 million being a big number these days. The bottom line is if it wasn't for EZE and the NWO, wrestling would not be as huge as it still is today. He revolutionized the industry, breathed new life into it, created the cruiser weights, made it cool to be the bad guy, and invented the element of surprise. He deserves the credit and I think this series proved that.
I don't know about you, I kind of like today's era better, especially when it comes to WWE. The guys and gals can go more, there's more athleticism which leads to better matches.
Eric you lost the war and made some bone-headed mistakes along the way that I am sure you wish you could get back...but you won a lot of battles and made one hell of a run at slaying Goliath. You should be proud.
Would be interested in Erics take on Kevin Nash saying Guy Evans book is bullshit (he said it on his podcast) and the fact Kevin said that "who killed WCW" is rubbish
i know what killed WCW……. it was us kids growing up and not able to stay up due to school… i think they fail to realize we couldn’t stay young forever .. it wasn’t anything wwf was doing. we just had school and couldn’t be up
Since all the big names were signed to AOL Time Warner, wouldn't Bischoff's company be able to work out a deal to use them since they'd still be featured on Turner Networks?
No, because WCW would have been completely independent company regardless of TV time, from AOL Time Warner. So they'd have run into the same problems as WWF regarding thr former WCW/Turner talent.
@@MandalorianRevan so you think that they would just pay them to sit home instead of using them on their networks to get a return on their investment. I'm pretty sure Bischoff would've worked out a deal. It would've been similar to how Sting and Angle were signed to Spike TV during their TNA runs.
WCW is not dead, it's more retired. Not out here putting on any matches, makes some nostalgia appearances in documentaries. WCW lives on through OUR memories. NWO 4Life
Newsflash: Russo brought the ratings UP while he was there. You might dislike his creative, but numbers went up. When he left, they dropped again. The same stuff some of you are calling "bad creative" increased viewership. Meanwhile, the stuff you think of as "good creative" aka pure dumb wrestling angles KILLED viewership. It's killing it AEW. It killed in WCW. They fail to mention the episodes that were PURE WRESTLING and they removed the Nitro Girls and draw the worst number in WCW history. (They listened to the dirt sheets, JUST LIKE TODAY and fans tuned out). So diss on Russo all you want, but Judy on a forklift is nowhere near as bad as 3 segment matches stretched through commercial, no stakes, generic wrestler vs generic wrestler. That phase happened during WCW's final stretch and was omitted from the show. It wasn't all finger pokes and forklifts. There was BORING wrestling with ZERO storylines just like today, and fans ran away and the only ones that enjoyed the shows were Meltzers and the purists.
"It's called WRESTLING! It's a WRESTLING SHOW! it should feature WRESTLING!" To me, that's like saying, "It's a CAR! It shouldn't have a stereo or any advanced technological features that don't aid in the physical mechanics of driving a CAR. It should just be a CAR!" This viewpoint would lead to a stripped-down, basic vehicle that lacks the enhancements which make driving more enjoyable and unique. Similarly, in wrestling, it's the entertainment elements that make the shows stand apart from a purely athletic contest, enriching the experience beyond the generic version of what wrestling can be. Trashing Russo's creative, discrediting the fact that it's always brought viewership up everywhere he's gone. That's actually a measurable fact. That's an objective factor left out by rasslin influencers that just love their bare bones rasslin. A car with no air conditioning. k.
I was going to get Dave's book "Sitting Ringside" but now I'm not sure, it seems like he wrote it without having all the facts....Is it still worth a read?
It's still his perspective, which would be different from Eric's or the other WCW talent. It is what it is. It's not like he denies there was a lot he didn't see in the moment.
I swear Russo said on his Podcasts years ago so many times say he was always putting the belt on Booker that's what him and everybody wanted and only done the Hulk part to keep him happy and go home but no matter what Booker would be Champion after bash of the beach I dont understand why that story has changed with him and I like Russo
![[DRAGON BALL LEGENDS REVEALS ＆ STUFF] LEGENDS FESTIVAL 2024 Special Edition Part 1](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/mV5bGIswTtQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Have to say it was touching seeing Kevin Nash giving props to Bischoff, lets be honest there would be no WCW without Bischoff!
Agreed. That was my favorite part.
there was a WCW before Bischoff
Yeap, Eric made WCW profitable period ❤
Facts 🙌🏽
I pray I age like Eric.
Eric, this will probably never got back to you but it needs saying. There are so many wrestling fans out there that know what you've done. You changed wcw and wrestling by making change and pioneering the way wrestling shows and storylines are constructed and presented. A lot of us have waited a long time to not only hear an opinion different to the usual stance WWE take as the victors but also to hear what you and wcw did right. It's very touching. Thanks so much man. Hopefully one day someone can dive into all the new things you and wcw did in wrestling that are still being used today from how promos and interviews are filmed, how the show is constructed and shot, the style of storylines and much more. We love you man, thanks for everything. Great to see you get your recognition and some closure, you deserve it
Watching Eric watch Nash say those closing comments about Eric made me cry with him.
Episode got me a few different times.
Same
Me too. I always felt Eric never got the credit he deserved.
I cried too 😢...I was like damn that hit hard af
Same! Party because me and so many others have such a strong connection as fans to that era of wrestling. The nostalgia watching this vice special absolutely wrecked me!
Eric, if you're reading this I just wanted to give you credit for something that I don't think I've ever heard mentioned. Yes, the formation of the nWo was brilliant, the build up, presentation and execution at Bash '96 was all perfection. I just watched 6-8 weeks of Nitro/PPVs and it was even better than I remember. But what you did specifically and uniquely well was you put over Hall and Nash immediately over big, established "WCW" guys. That's part of why Vince's invasion angle didn't work. He didn't want to put over another promotion's incoming talent that might make "his guys" look weak or inferior. Instead you booked Hall and Nash incredibly strong and therefore it elevated not only them but even some of the talent that did the job for them. In my mind, that's a largely overlooked portion of what made the nWo angle work. Great, great booking.
Don’t you find it weird that the “security guards” had guns, whilst Hall & Nash only had baseball bats?😂
Because they WERE wcw guys. He just signed them. It’d be like signing Aaron judge and having him be a pinch hitter
It's crazy that Jaime Kellner died in the past week. Seems poetic that happens when this comes out.
Eric will never, ever get the credit he deserves. He was the only one to ever achieve success with WCW, the fact under the circumstances he was able to take a brand that was considered less than nothing in the public conciseness and become the leader in its marketplace, let alone best WWE in some business metrics is a monumental achievement. In any other industry he would be celebrated, except for this one where the narrative is controlled by bad faith pseudo 'journalists' like Meltzer and Alverez or by the WWE (Who have a vested interest in putting over their legacy, not WCW). So after the years of BS narrative from BS journalists, Wrestling personalities who had no knowledge of the inner workings of WCW, and WWE, it's nice to see a document that acknowledges, hey this guy did something monumental.... It was more than an 83 week ratings streak, before that streak Eric had dragged WCW from the ashes and after that streak, while the booking was off its peak, lets not act like WCW wasn't creating compelling television (and doing good business) up until he spring of '99. I will be forever grateful for what WCW provided me as a fan in 1995,1996,1997,1998 and the first half of 1999. The truth of the matter is the success of WCW rose and fell depending on the success Hulk Hogan had in WCW, that bears out with every single business metric, so I give Eric a lot of grace in his relationship with Hulk (and certainly in hindsight better booking decisions could have been made)... Quite simply Vince Russo is a complete idiot not wanting/understanding how to utilize the biggest star in wrestling. In 2002 Hulk proved he still had what it took in WWE , somehow Vince McMahon, Eric Bischoff, and even Verne Gagne could make money with Hulk Hogan, but not Vince Russo, I'm not surprised.
You should see if Sting would give his opinion of "Who killed WCW?" on your podcast.
That era of Nitro is where I became a wrestling fan. Thank you so much to all involved including David Penzer & Eric Bischoff!
For 20 years my answer to "Who Killed WCW?" has been one name: Jamie Kellner. This 4-part series did NOT change my mind. Very well done documentary series though. Thumbs UP from The Card Shop in Bastrop, Louisiana!
Siegl I feel is lying. He helped Kellner pull the plug on WCW & you can say is reason WCW sold it to Vince for peanuts. Something doesn't add up. The only higher up that really cared was Jamie. She came across as a sweet heart & Genuine
I wouldn't call Eric Bischoffs secretary a higher up but you do you!
@DM_Cseripko Far from it but she did care
@@HabsMike25100% Agree he was definitely involved and threw the Bus on Kellner. Siegel seems like a real politician, pathetic.
@jeffreymiller9808 Selling WCW for cheap is bad & pathetic where Eric & his group was offering so much more. They could have sold it Eric's group & give them 2-3 years to turn a profit. I no longer Blame Eric for being part of reason why WCW went under. Maybe part of reason why WCW lost Monday Night Wars
Thank you everything Eric! Between you and Vince, I had such a special experience growing up!
In the end, it was Ted Turner losing control of his company is why WCW was cancelled and closed. The other reasons didnt help, but in the end their loingtime savior was unable to stop it this time.
Ted would have kept it going for sure !
Ted Turner was a good Man, when these Corporate Mergers take place people who have no interest in divisions make hasty decisions. Hearing about the loss of your Father at this time makes me empathetic to how things turned out in the End. On the other hand it Wasn’t so bad to have Booker T close as Champion.
Ted Turner was a good Man, when these Corporate Mergers take place people who have no interest in divisions make hasty decisions. Hearing about the loss of your Father at this time makes me empathetic to how things turned out in the End. On the other hand it Wasn’t so bad to have Booker T close as Champion.
@@jeffreymiller9808WWF signing Gangrel to elevate Edge and WCW making Booker T World Champion are proof that Vince Russo isn't a complete fuck up. Doesn't stop him from still being a fuck up though.
@@MandalorianRevan Agreed, Hogan definitely had 2 Much Creative Control at the End of the WCW Line
Stu Snyder saying No while nodding Yes when asked if he had pre knowledge on the fusient deal failing was so suss.
Eric Bischoff deserves a lot of credit for turning WCW around in early 90's & and starting up the Mondays Night Wars. Bischoff forced Vince to adapt how the WWF presented its product to an ediger product & giving us the best era in wrestling. Did Bischoff make mistakes? Yes & I am sure he wishes he could have done some things different but Bischoff isnt the only reason why WCW went under. There are many other factors from higher ups in Turner who hated wrestling to the merger of Time Warner & AOL to Hogan having way too much creative control to Vince Russo's awful booking. Adding Thunder did not help WCW. Having Nitro being 3 hours hurt it in the long run. It was better when it was 2 hours.
Two hours nitro was better.
El Dandy Killed WCW - never doubt
I can't believe Eric is 69 years old.
@@truthsoldier247 looks great for his age
Bet DX gifted Eric Bischoff a DX 69 jersey for his birthday
Shawn Michaels
Triple H
X-PAC
Road Dogg
MR ASS
Chyna *in spirit*
83 WEEKS should auction a fishing weekend with Eric Bischoff sponsored by Eric's brew
I can he's the same age as my mom and she definitely doesn't look it.
@1986Lutrix It sure did
Eric’s story is so insanely inspiring love to see it portrayed so well at the end there 😭
Because of Eric Bischoff - i dedicated myself to training to become a wrestler myself and i have been doing it for now for 7 years. I owe that to Eric. I'm grateful to Eric. Eric deserves waaaaay more credit than some give him. As The Rock said, he's solidified FIRMLY on the Mount Rushmore of wrestling execs. Thank you Eric
Conrad looks like a competition BBQ pitmaster
Hahaha omg I'm laughing so hard at this.
It was disappointing the Booker T felt that Eric killed WCW
Because Eric Bishop shares a chunk of that blame
The WCW reboot under Eric would have been great. It's a shame that Jamie Kellner killed it
It would have been terrible. Look at Eric's creative in early 1999 and anything he did in TNA.
This may be dumb but this episode had me tearing up a bit. Eric sincerely thank you for all you did, and thank you for trying to buy WCW.
Lol what a silly comment
Love the Fly Fishing story, made me Smile. Your Dad was Smiling Down upon you from Heaven above 💕✝️😊
After watching this 4 part series, and listening to everyones perspective whether it be on the documentary or on podcasts. I personally think and have thought since reading Guy Evans book, that WCW was not given enough support at the corporate level once the merger with AOL was even just a twinkle in their eye
The Answer to who killed WCW is 1000% aol time warner. When Russo left wcw millions still watched Nitro. And like how TNA is still alive now, WCW would have been around today had it been around and had a tv deal. Though the only mistake was even though turner was sabotaging them off the network, WCW could have got another tv deal had Eric bought it with fusion. TNA's survival proves that WCW would have been able to get another tv deal. But if wcw survived TNA would never have existed.
I cried seeing Eric watching nash making his statements and seeing raw emotion in eyes and face of somebody in my young years loved to hate made it hard not to tear up as well 😢
Glad to see Eric is finally getting the respect due. He did it, period. It was indeed a great episode.
I thought he always got respect. He got hired by the guy who he was threatening to beat up and put out of business. My takeaway was they can't blame everything on Russo like these clowns have been doing. Truth is, WCW was always 2nd outside of 2 years and went back to that. After the NWO got stale and ran into the ground, people went to WWF and stayed. That ship was sinking around early to mid 99. Probably really late 98.
Dave penzer was the wcw version of howard finkel
5 stars, thanks for everything!
Mt Rushmore of wrestling promoters. Mcmahon, Bischoff, Heyman, Crockett
Fuller,Vince,bischoff, Crockett
Madusa, guy evans, Goldberg, and brad Siegel pretty much in my opinion summed up the fall. It was caused by multiple people and multiple channels. You have the merger and executives who did not like this product representing the turner brand, and you have poor decisions, awful communication, and just compete dog eat dog behavior from the talent that made the final decision from the executives easy.
You have guys who could not on their best day sell out a Taco Bell bathroom, but are making a ton of cash and either don’t come to work, file ridiculous harassment and discrimination lawsuits( as if anyone ever tuned in at any point in life in any organization to watch them), people who don’t draw ratings getting first class flights, hotels, and rental cars paid for by the company, and everyone just out for themself and their pockets.
Again, the executives wanted wcw gone, but the talent made that a very easy decision.
When I hear about Jamie Kellner, I just see him as a player on the stage. I'm not impressed with his wealth or his cars. I just knew he killed a lot of joy for a lot of wrestling fans. And when he passed away, all that wealth, he couldn't take it with him. Puts a lot of things into perspective.
I was also a WCW/NWA fan moreso than a WWF fan. Great series and nice to hear all perspectives of what happened. I am curious why Eric didn’t take on supporting TNA after WCW had ended.
Eric you were by far the best Raw GM of all time, you really did a great Job there :D
The best on screen authority figure after Vince McMahon.
Nobody ever talks about the people who stopped watching wrestling after WCW shut down but kept playing WWE video games and recreating the WCW roster and story lines. 😊
After watching the transition from the Bischoff era to the Russo era of WCW, there's no doubt in my mind. Russo came with a purpose, and that was to destroy WCW. That, or he simply had no clue, which is possible. All my opinion, of course.
Eric got me to watching WC,W again in tv,going to see wcw tv tapings live ,and attending wcw house shows including STING VS BRET Memphis first time ever 98 msc 8000 attending.thanks Eric and Dave, when i saw my first live nitro ,people asking you in the ring where's Lawler I'm memphis for life but i laughed out loud when you said "hes at the flea market." Thanks Dave
It just dawned on me just how critical corporate control was in deciding the fate of WCW. WWE was in the same slump in the late 2000s. Imagine if, for some reason, Vince Mcmahon lost control of his company and the ones who took over decided to shut it down. Who'd people blame? Vince? Bruce? The GMs? Johnny Ace? We'd still be picking apart that story until today.
The timing of Kellner’s passing is wild
With a guy like Hogan who is very protective of his spot, you have to pitch the whole story. "You lose the belt at this event and get it back at this event. This is how you fall down, this is how you get up." Trying to reassure delicate egos would be something he needs to learn in his position.
Remember hearing that name Brad Siegel in regards to a relationship with his Niece and Scott Hall.
I heard that name alot in shoot interviews over the last 10 years and we finally found out who this guy was. Definitely a weasel...
@@louiodefinitely.
Shame they couldn't get Kellner. Because the question always was if WCW had higher ratings/ profitability if it had actually mattered. Probably not as Kellner just didn't want it on his channels and the other execs helped him remove it from his channels.
With the things WWE covered up in its history, from steroids to the Ring Boy scandal, to now the Janel Grant saga, it would not surprise me that they would commit SEC violations in killing the Fusient deal.
What Eric did is turn WCW into the leader rather than the also-ran. It is interesting that people in charge of stuff like television cannot see a bigger picture. Keeping WCW going and rejuvenating it would have been worthwhile as it would have kept the network's unique personality and appeal. The viewers then spill into other offerings that execs want people to watch. Sometimes it is worth it to keep a "less desirable" property going due to the halo effect it brings.
It would have been easier to make WCW a success again than to replace it with programing people do not want to watch. It added variety to the channel. Turner may have been a fan, but he also had an understanding of the innate value of something people can easily look down upon.
One problem wrestling had/has is it will not attract the first-rate writing talent. At the same time, you just need good writers, not necessarily great, who have a love of the artform to raise it to more successful levels. They need to understand what works and have the ability to be creative without going to outside of the boundaries of what can work in the ring.
And yet Dave & Brian are still calling Eric a liar
I was watching Fastlane 2015 today and totally saw Conrad in the front row while Sting was pushing a bat into Triple Hs throat.
How many damn live shows has Conrad been in the very front row for?! Im honestly jealous.
The second to the last Monday night Raw on USA before leaving for Netflix call it, Monday Night Nitro
Why
Would be nice to see a Vice documentary on the rise of WCW, we always have content on the downfall, lets just look at the rise.
NATYA BOY! WOOOOO!!!
I take Booker T's comments with the smallest grain of salt.
He did not have a good time towards the end of WCW, he doesn't look back on that time fondly and he attributes perceived grievances to individuals.
Well, Booker's stance comes from the fact he was told he was winning the world title, Then Hogan pulling creative control to change it and Eric for numerous reasons siding with Hogan I can understand Bookers argument. He likely felt slapped in the face by that Hogan creative control card play and Eric backing it. Hogan did hold Booker back no matter how anyone spins that point of it. Because while Hogan was still a attraction in 2000. He shouldnt have been the champion and main attraction anymore. He should have been in top spots helping other talent get over the way that Andre and others did for him. And i was always a fan of Hogan. But he was out for himself primarily and only ever put over a select few guys and when he did he always usually took his win back later .
I heard Bischoff’s side and I’ve heard Vince’s side and Eric’s side always made the most logical sense to me. At the end of the day if Time Warner wanted WCW,it would’ve stayed because even with WCW at its worst,they still had some of the highest viewing numbers on TNT so the fans were still there.
1:20:08 I would love to see an episode of 83 weeks with Sting as a guest
You would have to be a true wrestling fan at that time to really know and feel how powerful and impactful that time was for pro wrestling! There was just nothing like it! I had the Monday Night Wars dvd and have watched several videos about the death of WCW and the details of everything that happened still intrigues me. Many factors contributed to the ultimate demise of the company but knowing all the behind the scenes stuff just hits different. It was truly the best time to be a wrestling fan!
Watching that Nitro/Raw 20+ yrs stills baffles me…I watched that historical moment live and knew Wrestling was never going to be same. I hope to be around to watch the final Raw episode on USA and watch the 1st episode on Netflix. Surreal
Hey Conrad an Eric, serious question, what does it take for a regular nobody like me to sit with Eric at his home at the lake or anywhere infront of a decent fire pit with cooler full of beer an just talk about the good ol days of wrestling? I have followed Eric’s career ever since he walked on the set in AWA as announcer all the way to the end of Eric being tossed in garbage truck on WWE Raw. I think sitting an having cold beer talking in front of a nice warm fire just talking would be an amazing time.
The one thing no one ever says about credit to Eric is out of every single wrestling promoter in the country from 80s to 90s til Eric started Nitro not one promoter gave Vinny Mac a run for his money as hard an come so close by meer possible months of putting him out of business. Eric was the only man that has ever done that. Doesn’t matter how he did it cuz if Vince had that chance he had done that to nitro in a heartbeat. Eric Bischoff because of NITRO changed the wrestling world as we know it now. Eric lit a fire under McMahon ass to force him to turn up the heat an do better. When Vince finally did, he blew the ratings off the chart. There’s a lot that Eric has done during that time that he’s not getting much credit for.
EZE is the GOAT
Only $4 million. It's a joke. The top talent could have bought it for that much, and it would have found a network within the year.
This was a clear conspiracy to make sure WCW wasn't going to come back to life elsewhere.
Yeah, but you’ve got to understand, you pay $4 million for the company, and now you owe many more millions to pay the contracts of the talent. You have to find funding for the venues. The bills don’t stop coming in.
No, all that was for sale was the rings, the trademarks and the mid card talent. WCW was an organization. There is not much property. The tape library alone was worth 4 million. Vince also wanted them gone, it was his long held revenge since 1984 with Ted Turner.
After watching complete documentation of death of wcw leaves me with feeling of the orient express murder where everybody had a hand at the demise of the company and its left its imprint in the sands of infinite time😊 best times I remembered by far thanks Eric
WCW deserved at least a chance to survive on another TV network besides TBS/TNT, but the higher ups wanted it to not exist anymore so they sold it to Vince
Was a great 4 week show ,. Still going to say if thunder don't happen things maybe could be different. Thanks Eric conrad and Dave for this
You should've had an endgame for the NWO angle, and a corporate take over from a separate entity
Should have been WCW vs NWO in the end.
The Solo Sikoa Bloodline angle gave me some inspiration. What if, after Starrcade, Macho Man kicks out Hogan and takes over the nWo?
They merged.
Fired Eric.
Brought him back without complete control.
Sabotaged his purchase of the company.
And somehow booker t will still blame Eric
Because Eric bischoff does share some of the blame for it.
Amazing Episode Fellas
To quote a source that Eric hates, (the Death of WCW by Rd Reynolds and Bryan Alverez) "Say what you will about Russo's overall writing, he writes a hell of an opening chapter"
So that puts Russo over Tony Khan.
Russo did lay down the ground work to make Edge and Booker T stars.
nWo 4 life
NWO fan for life
Eric must feel righteous after this series glad for eric
Someone sent me the the Meltzer/Alvarez response to episode three video. They were still trying to convince everyone that their narrative was right, with Meltzer dropping the names of dead promoters to try and validate his BS.
Fake Celebrity Wannabes
god damn love Erics shirt
Jamie Kellner killed WCW - not Hogan, Bischoff, Russo or Nash. Even if WCW had higher ratings than the WWE from 1999 to 2000, Kellner would've still pulled the plug on WCW. His hatred for wrestling was huge.
Vince McMahon killed it- he bought it then killed it
thank you Eric. you're the man!
Eric is awesome
WCW was like every TV show; beginning to grow your audience, the high points of ratings during series, the decline and eventually,all tv shows ends. WCW was no different.
Yes it was. How do you think WWE is still around?
Anyone know why we didnt see hogan and sting on this documentary?
It's on episode 1
A better title would’ve been the Rise and Fall of Bischoff’s WCW. If Vince McMahon invented what modern day pro wrestling/sports entertainment is today, Bischoff re-invented it during the Nitro Era.
Eric should be fine. I did my back the same way at work. Took me a week to recover
'TNT We know Drama' Was what killed WCW.
Was disappointed that after the final episodes credits rolled it didn't cut back to Bret Hart saying Goldberg killed WCW after kicking him in the head.
Everyone talks about the wrong people when saying who killed WCW.
It was Stone Cold Steve Austin.. How was WCW ever meant to compete when he was taking over the world on the other channel. Everyone switched and no one changed back or stopped riding that wave until his heel turn at Wrestlemania 17 at the earliest.
I agree that WWF and Austin were untouchable at that point. It wasn't singularly Stone Cold tho, cuz 3:16 was alive in 96/97/98 and fans were still choosing Nitro. It's once WCW dropped the ball, that WWF kept on scoring.
Also, since you mention his heel turn, i'ma go off. His heel turn narrative bothers me.
The creative in charge during Wrestlemania 17 couldn't write tv. They're the same creative that booked Austin as the Ringmaster.
Who was in the room? Bruce Prichard in creative.
And then had the nerve to say "Austin was no longer selling platinum records at that point."
The same creative, Prichard and McMahon, that ordered Austin not talk and let Dibiase do the talking for him.
He was successful under Russo but once Russo/Ferrara departed, it's like Raw turned into a Russo parody. And they just expected the talent to get themselves over.
They guys had no idea what to do with Austin as a heel. And they couldn't write for him as a face either. That's why he walked in out in 02. Cuz creative sucked.
The influencers say "you can't make John Wayne a bad guy". Dude, this is America. If it's written correctly, anyone can be a bad guy. Which then sets up the redemption story...when they become good again.
Unfortunately creative at the time are the same guys that booked the Austin to capture Kevin Nash with a NET GUN. A gun that shot a NET. wtf.
these were the guys that were going to successfully write Austin as a heel. no.
Amazing take, very true the WWF and talent at that time contributed to the death of WCW
True. People won't talk about this but WCW was doing higher ratings in 1999 than in 1997 but WWF was getting so many non wrestling fans and doubling Nitro's rating. Even in 2000-01 the ratings were matching 1995-96's ratings
Austin pushed hard to turn heel in 2001, thinking he wasn't as fresh as he used to be. And Vince was reluctant to do it and burn up his cash cow.
GOLDBERG WAS JUST AS POPULAR AS STONE COLD BUT AFTER 99 WWE ALSO HAD THE ROCK , WCW HAD NO ANSWER AT THAT POINT
During the final episode when they explain how Eric was in the process to buy WCW and have a live show in Vegas . They talk about the show being televised on Turner Brodcasting . But didnt the Turner execs not want WCW on their progamming..can anyone clarify ?
Yes they still wanted to be broadcast on TNT until they found a new TV station
I was a huge wrestling fan growing up in the 1980s. AWA, WCW, WWF. Flair, Hogan and the Road Warriors were my favorites and I watched whenever possible. But by the late 1980s and early 1990s wrestling had become stale, corny, not very interesting to someone hovering around the 18-24 year old mark. WWF especially was dumb with all the cartoon character non sense. Sure there was the occasional hit: Diesel winning the title of Backlund. But otherwise, with the AWA gone and WCW not on the radar, wrestling had one foot in the non-relevant grave. Then Eric and the NWO came along and it brought me back in. It brought millions in. People don't understand how huge it was! There were 8 and 10 million people watching Nitro at its peak and another 6 or 7 watching Raw! And we talk about 2 million being a big number these days. The bottom line is if it wasn't for EZE and the NWO, wrestling would not be as huge as it still is today. He revolutionized the industry, breathed new life into it, created the cruiser weights, made it cool to be the bad guy, and invented the element of surprise. He deserves the credit and I think this series proved that.
I don't know about you, I kind of like today's era better, especially when it comes to WWE. The guys and gals can go more, there's more athleticism which leads to better matches.
That's a slipped disc, eric
You wanted to establish a nWo presence in Japan and Muta and Chono made sense in accomplishing that
Eric you lost the war and made some bone-headed mistakes along the way that I am sure you wish you could get back...but you won a lot of battles and made one hell of a run at slaying Goliath. You should be proud.
Would be interested in Erics take on Kevin Nash saying Guy Evans book is bullshit (he said it on his podcast) and the fact Kevin said that "who killed WCW" is rubbish
Eric should call Rock to thank him and to relaunch WCW ASAP
You guys need to get Steve Borden
i know what killed WCW……. it was us kids growing up and not able to stay up due to school… i think they fail to realize we couldn’t stay young forever .. it wasn’t anything wwf was doing. we just had school and couldn’t be up
Where can I get Eric T-shirt? It's not on boxofgimmicks
I like wcw better than wwe
Since all the big names were signed to AOL Time Warner, wouldn't Bischoff's company be able to work out a deal to use them since they'd still be featured on Turner Networks?
No, because WCW would have been completely independent company regardless of TV time, from AOL Time Warner. So they'd have run into the same problems as WWF regarding thr former WCW/Turner talent.
@@MandalorianRevan so you think that they would just pay them to sit home instead of using them on their networks to get a return on their investment. I'm pretty sure Bischoff would've worked out a deal. It would've been similar to how Sting and Angle were signed to Spike TV during their TNA runs.
I like booker t but him on the show was embarrassing.
WCW is not dead, it's more retired. Not out here putting on any matches, makes some nostalgia appearances in documentaries. WCW lives on through OUR memories. NWO 4Life
It makes more sense to me Russo made the choice himself because I would hope Brad would understand the consequences of betraying the creative control
You have a herniated protrusion in one of your discs, at least it sounds like. That’s what I have.
Conrad doing his best Michael J. Fox impressions as always.
😂
16:00 we all saw the head nod
Newsflash: Russo brought the ratings UP while he was there. You might dislike his creative, but numbers went up. When he left, they dropped again.
The same stuff some of you are calling "bad creative" increased viewership. Meanwhile, the stuff you think of as "good creative" aka pure dumb wrestling angles KILLED viewership.
It's killing it AEW. It killed in WCW. They fail to mention the episodes that were PURE WRESTLING and they removed the Nitro Girls and draw the worst number in WCW history. (They listened to the dirt sheets, JUST LIKE TODAY and fans tuned out). So diss on Russo all you want, but Judy on a forklift is nowhere near as bad as 3 segment matches stretched through commercial, no stakes, generic wrestler vs generic wrestler. That phase happened during WCW's final stretch and was omitted from the show.
It wasn't all finger pokes and forklifts. There was BORING wrestling with ZERO storylines just like today, and fans ran away and the only ones that enjoyed the shows were Meltzers and the purists.
"It's called WRESTLING! It's a WRESTLING SHOW! it should feature WRESTLING!"
To me, that's like saying, "It's a CAR! It shouldn't have a stereo or any advanced technological features that don't aid in the physical mechanics of driving a CAR. It should just be a CAR!" This viewpoint would lead to a stripped-down, basic vehicle that lacks the enhancements which make driving more enjoyable and unique. Similarly, in wrestling, it's the entertainment elements that make the shows stand apart from a purely athletic contest, enriching the experience beyond the generic version of what wrestling can be.
Trashing Russo's creative, discrediting the fact that it's always brought viewership up everywhere he's gone. That's actually a measurable fact. That's an objective factor left out by rasslin influencers that just love their bare bones rasslin. A car with no air conditioning. k.
Can't find the eZe tshirt on the store
I was going to get Dave's book "Sitting Ringside" but now I'm not sure, it seems like he wrote it without having all the facts....Is it still worth a read?
It's still his perspective, which would be different from Eric's or the other WCW talent. It is what it is. It's not like he denies there was a lot he didn't see in the moment.
Eric, do planks. They really help with back pain. But I’m sure you don’t need physical therapy help from someone online
I swear Russo said on his Podcasts years ago so many times say he was always putting the belt on Booker that's what him and everybody wanted and only done the Hulk part to keep him happy and go home but no matter what Booker would be Champion after bash of the beach I dont understand why that story has changed with him and I like Russo