The Downfall Of the NWO: 83 WEEKS
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 1 окт 2024
- On this episode of 83 Weeks, Eric and Conrad explore what lead to the downfall of one of the most influential factions in professional wrestling history...the NWO! Eric shares his thoughts on when he felt the product started to get diluted, how and how the demise could have been avoided, and how he would have liked the story of the NWO to end. All that plus so much more on this incredible edition of 83 Weeks with Eric Bischoff.
MANSCAPED - Get 20% Off and Free Shipping with the code 83WEEKS at Manscaped.com.
BLUECHEW - Try BlueChew FREE when you use our promo code 83WEEKS at checkout--just pay $5 shipping. That’s BlueChew.com, promo code 83WEEKS to receive your first month FREE
GAMETIME - Snag the tickets without the stress with Gametime. Download the Gametime app, create an account, and use code WEEKS for $20 off your first purchase (terms apply). Download Gametime today. Last minute tickets. Lowest Price. Guaranteed.
PROWRESTLING CRATE - ProWrestlingCrate.com is a monthly subscription box for the die-hard wrestling fans. Plans start at $9.95 and ship worldwide. Visit prowrestlingcrate.com.
STARRCAST VI - STARRCAST VI - Don't miss a moment of the fun and excitement planned for Starrcast VI! Starrcast VI is coming home to Chicago this Labor Day weekend September 1st through the 3rd. Grab your bracelets and bundles now at STARRCAST.com
SAVE WITH CONRAD - Stop throwing your money on rent! Get into a house with NO MONEY DOWN and roughly the same monthly payment at SaveWithConrad.com
ADVERTISE WITH ERIC - If your business targets 25-54 year old men, there's no better place to advertise than right here with us on 83 Weeks. You've heard us do ads for some of the same companies for years...why? Because it works! And with our super targeted audience, there's very little waste. Go to AdvertiseWithEric.com now and find out more about advertising with 83 Weeks.
Get all of your 83 Weeks merchandise at boxofgimmicks....
FOLLOW ALL OF OUR SOCIAL MEDIA at 83weekslinks.com/
On AdFreeShows.com, you get early, ad-free access to more than a dozen of your favorite wrestling podcasts, starting at just $9! And now, you can enjoy the first week...completely FREE! Sign up for a free trial - and get a taste of what Ad Free Shows is all about. Start your free trial today at AdFreeShows.com.
#wrestlingpodcast #ericbishcoff #nwo #wcw #wwf #wwe #wrestling #wrestlingnews
Luger beat Hogan on nitro.
Piper beat Hogan at Starrcade.
But Hogan couldnt lose clean to Sting
title wasn't on the line with Piper. To be fair the "Roddy was so dumb/crazy he forgot the title stipulation" angle was very funny and on brand for Hot Rod, he still never got the title from Hogan.
I like Eric being honest about Hulk/Hall/Nash getting "comfortable" (lazy) a year and a half in to the NWO storyline.
It was obvious. Scott Hall gained like 30 pounds between 96 and 98
The storyline should have ended a year and a half in. Should have ended at Starrcade 1997 with sting winning fairly
I think it should’ve ended @ uncensored 98 with Hall going over Sting with the help of Dusty and Hogan expecting Hall to hand the belt over to him….Hall doesn’t then Bam 💥 Wolf 🐺 PAC split
@@lancewalton8705and not 30 pounds of muscle either 😂
@@bobbyjohnson9409fairly and decisively!
I was always a hardcore WWF guy, but I must admit, that first yr or so of the NWO storyline had me flipping channels every couple minutes... Back and forth, back and forth, back and forth all Monday night! Such a fun time in wrestling... When me and my buddies would get to school on Tuesday it was all wrestling talk, 3 out of 7 of us was WCW all the way, and all we heard was how it was over for WWF now that the NWO was hot... They gave it hell, but couldn't put Vinny M in the dirt! Needless to say, by 1999 my buddies were no longer foreseeing the death of the WWF... LOL. Such great memories
Dx didnt have an endgame either. hunter turn on them and rejion him 99 and he told hbk 2009 dx is about selling merch
But everything didn’t have to revolve around dx. That is the huge difference. The nwo was literally a road block to anything & everyone. It beyond tiresome by 98..
They jumped the shark when Hornswoggle became a member 😂
The end of the NWO should have been Hogan turning face again.
No way Hogan is wayyyyy better as a Heel He stinks as a face I don't like Babyface anyway I never Root for them I'm for the Bad Guy's
but that wouldn’t have made sense in 1999, unless you’d have him return on 1/4 and have Nash win the title from Goldberg then turn on Hogan that night after getting Bill arrested. Actually that might have been a way to beat RAW in the ratings and maybe we wouldn’t be even having this conversation right now
I’ll say this as a fan before I listen, the only problem with the nWo story was that at a certain point nothing changed. Like, are they going to win, lose, get their own show?? What? Other than that nothing was wrong. It needed a lot of members, it was a company not a faction. Bret needed way better booking also.
58:05 poor Eric he must have said this a millions times yet Conrad continues to ask him a million and one more times in a different way what boils down to the same question 😅 and everytime Eric says the same thing AOL/TIME WARNER KILLED TURNER & WCW!
That is the #1 reason but it’s not like they wouldn’t have gotten stale anyway. Nwo, Goldberg, cruiserweights were fresh ideas. By 1999, eric didn’t have anymore no matter what he says
One of the biggest problems was over-saturation. In 1998 Nitro expanded to 3 hours and Thunder added another 2 hours. The pacing of Nitro suffered, and the addition of another prime-time show stretched creative pretty thin.
Yea! Nitro for 3 hours was way too much!
@HereIsWisdom1318 At the time I freaking loved it!
@HereIsWisdom1318 At the time I freaking loved it!
@@HereIsWisdom1318kind of like Raw now lol
An hour is too much when you have nothing but run-ins and DQs.
The biggest problem the nWo had was the other channel had Mr. McMahon vs. Steve Austin. The nWo story was the same old thing while WWE felt fresh every week.
No way NWO was always fresh the best ever your nuts Wwe sucked NWO was unreal I still. Miss it it was the greatest storyline ever Invasion was awesome Nwo 4life
I agree, I loved Watching WCW-NWO, but the Austin vs McMahon Story line was something new and fresh to pay attention to.
No the biggest problem was that McMahon had final say in booking, but execs were always interfering in Bischoff being able to run WCW.
That would be true...2 years into it. When it started, the nwo was untouchable
I always liked wcw better because it was a cleaner show
Did you ever think of using Hart, his brother-in-law's, and Jericho, as a new faction to take on the NWO?
And benoit the hart dungeon
They could've easily created the Hart Foundation in WCW, and it would've given Benoit and Jericho a push. And it would've given Bret's character some direction.
Davey boy Smith got badly injured, I don't know why Jim Niedhart left. Jericho went to WWE and so did Benoit.
They were not allowed to make a Har Foundation
CWO - Canadian World Order? Lol
No sir, the horsemen stole that idea from the Bible. Per Double A
And they were organically put together by accident. Not some marketed faction put together by design. I can't stand Eric's irrational hatred for the Four Horsemen.
Growing up I didn't like eric, but now I respect this man. I was and am still a huge sting fan. Who else would want to meet eric
Eric Bischoff is coming to my hometown comic con Aug 26th so I might get the chance
This NWO was the Best Faction and Storyline Ever ❤
A storyline that swallowed itself and created literally ZERO stars… yeah, greatest storyline ever. 😂
@@derektwentyone2670 Made DDP a superstar by turning down the NWO in spectacular fashion, set the stage for Goldberg to be shot to the moon and oh yeah, led to Sting's greatest character of all time. But yeah, didn't create any stars
@@derektwentyone2670 Kevin Nash, Scott Hall were not the Mega Stars in the WWE that they became jumping to WCW forming the NWO and don't forget K Dog / Konan got a good rub from joining the NWO and DDP was a Mid Carder before fueding with NWO
@@bgorder34 I’ll concede that DDP was elevated by the NWO, more specifically by way of his feud with Randy Savage. Sting was already a huge star for WCW. Did his feud with Hogan enhance his star power? Sure, but the NWO certainly didn’t “put him on the map”, as Flair had done that several years prior. As for Goldberg? Can you really claim to have “made” someone if less than 6 months later you completely snuff him out?
Never saw Dennis Rodman in the Bloodline.
Wrestling is a dialectic: Good vs. Evil, and everything in between. nWo got nuclear amounts of heat and, as antagonists in the story, they helped make the super-babyfaces like Sting, DDP, Goldberg, etc. They also helped create and make heels cool (e.g. Hall, Nash, Steiner, WolfPac, etc.). It was a good idea and initial narrative. However, the plot progression, resolution, and eventual transition to something else were not adequately prepared. As such they overdid it and it got stale.
Edit: Bischoff was/is a mark for Hogan and allowed the latter to ruin finishes and the general storyline.
I enjoyed the original version it felt fresh and cool especially when the group was smaller,then it was like everyone was was a part of the story.
I liked the idea of nWo Nitro. The pilot was even fun with Sting crashing the party, and spoiling the nWo's fun at the end. It really was the tear down, and set up that felt WAY too long. Just a question, but why not nWo Thunder? Take a less risky risk. Make Thunder must see, with a prominent title as the focal point of the first few months?
It seemed like it started going downhill when Bret came over. Maybe not because of Bret but it definitely started to get crunchy.
Nah you nailed it. It was Bret moving and had to make room for him. Guessing Hogan wanted him in the neo but Bret had enough creative control so he ended up in some stupid consultant role as a compromise. Bret's poison
1:14:29 For the record when I asked my question here, I wasn't even referring to whatever "he stole from Japan" you're talking about or being critical or anything.
My question was about the nWo Japan stable they started on WCW TV with Chono & Muta later on Norton who was wrestling on Nitro with the IWGP title. But way to twist simple words into Dave Meltzer b.s.
Yeah that was disappointing to see it misinterpreted
The nWo japan story is a great story
Thing is, when the fans you were referring to in your question bring up Bischoff stealing the nWo invasion angle from Japan, those fans are referring to what Eric and Conrad were talking about, not the nWo Japan stable with Norton, Chono, Muta, fake Sting etc
@@chico1680 Again I wasn't referring to any fans, opinion or anything of that nature with the simple way I asked my question but Conrad set it up for it to be interpreted that way but he at least answered it after the rant.
@@dp4681Did you not mention how whenever you would see criticism of Bischoff online, folks would say Eric stole one idea from Japan and thats all hes known for? Or was that Conrad addlibbing?
@@chico1680 "Did Eric have any involvement or even aware of how the Japanese version of the nWo ended? #AskEric"
That's all I said. Since the subject was the end of the nWo, I asked about the nWo Japan group ending. Not the group or storyline that he "stole" the idea from cause clearly Bischoff had nothing to do with that one & that wasn't the nWo.
Great episode. Souled Out wasnt that bad, and agree with building a brand. I caught it on accident one night on my girlfriends parents chipped cable box late night and was hooked. The looks, style, throwing of the trash, everything just screamed....new. I never missed an episode of Nitro or Thunder until the end because of that PPV.
Souled Out was a total disaster. 1 good, but slightly overrated match (Guerrero - Waltman) and otherwise just crap. The biggest disappointment was definitely Chono once again having no interest in actually working a match. Atrocious main event as usual and some of the worst matches WCW presented in 1997 (Morrus vs. Rogers and Jarrett vs Wallstreet especially) and everything around it was just absurd. The "Miss nWo" thing was so weird. Why did they hire fat, middle-aged trailer park trash instead of good looking women? It's as if they were ribbing themselves.
@@ShadowAngel-lt8nwbecause they were...
Love stories like this. Must’ve been some fun times
@@ShadowAngel-lt8nw they should have had their sexiest chick awards with maxim and playboy chicks. Should have entered with hot rides instead of on garbage trucks. Shit was lame
Good day gentleman. Did the idea of Bret Hart replacing Hogan in a coup ever cross your mind?
Vince should have wrestled Eric at slamboree 1998
The fingerpoke of doom was a wrong-turn, but not so much for the fingerpoke - basically they should have turned Hogan baby and had him unite with Goldberg to take down the heel Wolfpac. Ok, Goldberg still may have got injured but this would still have been a better angle.
The other really bad turn was having DDP turn heel when Goldberg came back, & find himself in the Jersey Triad 2-3 months later. I mean if you really wanted him heel, you could have had him join the heel Wolfpac. Not what I would have done, but it was better than what they did.
So if anything, I think the nWo should have properly gone into '99 instead of just weirdly petering out. Something like: Goldberg, Hogan, Sting, DDP, Flair & Rick Steiner vs Nash, Hall, Luger, Dusty, Buff & Scott Steiner.
I've listened to 83 weeks so much that I can tell 5 minutes in advance when bischoff is going to bring up the Nitro book by Guy Evans, and whenever Conrad rocks in his chair it reminds me of Jesse Ventura
did you read, Nitro? l am currently a little over half-way through.
some of it is great however some gets "too" in-depth, no? what did you think?
@@ivandaniel2596 it’s a thoroughly well researched and well-written book. The book is written for people who want a factual, in-depth business analysis of why WCW failed. Intelligent folk will read it and understand that no single thing killed WCW like WWE’s retcon of history. Instead, a huge multitude of bad ingredients in multiple areas meant that WCW was always doomed to fail one day, but imploded earlier than expected.
If it’s too in depth for your taste, just stick to 83 weeks etc.
@@iTubeYourDadsMinge no way dude... l LOVE a story that tell lots & lots of behind the scene details.
I think the real issue with NWO was less is more--meaning if you had kept it to a core 4-5 members it would've been great. More people to feud with vs NWO. No need for bringing in a bunch of mid card guys or splitting it into 2 factions.
And they flubbed the sting story line big tine
Yes!!!
Scott Hall & Kevin Nash's invasion was epic, and the perfectly executed invasion angle. The Main Event of WrestleMania V (Hulk Hogan & Macho Man Randy Savage) executing the Hulk Hogan heel turn made it even more epic. Many of us fans couldn't wait for next week's Nitro to see who the nWo brought in next. So, while this was discussed with such a negative tone during the discussion, many of us enjoyed & looked forward to the next nWo member reveal. The WCW Nitro era was a lot of fun.
Another intricate detail that happened in that turn that is very overlooked was Heenan on commentary for it. Because Hogan's turn in that moment did a wrestling lore script flip and made Andre and Heenan the faces of Wrestlemania 3 as Heenan was right about Hogan all along in the narrative of wrestling story. Heenan in promos in WWF always called Hogan a snake or something like that. And then in WCW when he turned it made Brain right and made Hogan the biggest heel in wrestling history equaled only by the Mr Mcmahon character and possibly prime heel Triple H. It was story telling done to perfection whether it was done on purpose or not with the Brain part of it.
I think the thing is, they kept dominating instead of building a lot of people up, making it even on both playing fields.
I agree.....they were n every main event and were at the top of every card (tv and ppv)...how long could we have them shoved down our throats.
The biggest problem was Hogan having to come out of promos, segments, matches (even the ones he lost), looking better than everyone.
Your top guys can't just have a .500 record, that's why nobody in WWE is over, wins over each other aren't special when everyone has beat everyone.
I clicked in when it said 83 seconds ago. Awesome.
Goldberg Vs Hollywood was one of the biggest nights..... EVERYONE was talking about that short build up...what a night
Still remember it to this day
@@TobeyStarburst the best line of the night was in the Goldberg vs Hall match when Goldberg had him up for the jackhammer and I think it was Schiavone who said "I think we all smell Hulk Hogan" and the Brain counters with "if you're close to him you do". The Brain was just a treasure
Conrad brought up the free birds and Michael hayes Saying leave while you're on top but back in WCCW David, a free bird's versus the von Erichs So long. Even after Michael Hayes left they kept adding new members to the freebirds to beat up the von erichs that it became very watered down.
Seems like those guys made a great career decision but a devastating personal decision. Going over to wcw.
The only thing keeping them from going over the deep end with ego and drugs was having to maintain a road life. The responsibility of it kept them from getting to comfortable and spiraling out of control.
There is no proper end baby!!! Nwo for life. The extras should've been trimmed down and core members continue as members except on their respective career paths.They Hogan Hall and Nash should've clashed over the title several times. Breakup and make up. Sometimes we help each other sometimes we hang a guy out to dry. Come together over serious threats. Each doing their own thing just doin it w nwo on their ring gear.
Jack "Jungle Boy" Perry, currently indefinitely suspended from AEW?
That's an issue. Tony Khan pretty much put Jack Perry and CM Punk on the same level lol.
WWE REWRITE
no 2 HOLLYWOOD
Nash Departs nWo
Big Sexy Takes W
4 WOLFPAC
#WWE
#WWEREWRITE
#NWO
#HollywoodHogan
#bigsexy
#KevinNash
#Wolfpac
The 98 nWo wasn’t a bad angle. The finger poke of doom was the only thing that caused me to change the channel. I was mad. Kevin vs Hogan was built longer than Sting vs Hogan. A PPV match that was blown and could’ve been huge. We all wanted it! The build was bigger than ever.
Did anyone in WCW believe Vince McMahon was going to show up to Slamboree 1998? Not a Nwo question sorry
Apparently Hogan was cautioning Eric that Vince may indeed turn up. Black belt Bisch would've taken care of him though.
@namikstudios Vince isn't going down without a fight, he's crazy not to mention he could have brought his 3 time, THREE TIME, karate black belt hall of fame member Bruce Prichard with him for backup. 😅
Vince McMahon was seriously considering taking Eric Bischoff up on his challenge.
SOURCE: Vince Russo
Truth With Consequences
I always feel like there's an undercurrent of Conrad telling Eric off because WCW's downfall ruined his childhood or something. Perhaps there'll be a big final reveal episode where Conrad is behind an army of ex-WCW crowd sign wavers who were completely forlorn when the promotion was sold.
WWE REWRITE
nWo
UncensoreD
1998
*Nude Kimberly Page leaves Diamond Dallas Page for nWo
*Madusa and Woman create WCWomen/nWomen
WCW/nWo
WCW (pink lipstick)
nWo (red lipstick)
*Scott Hall beats Sting for WCW World Heavyweight Championship therefore Scott Hall to WCW THUNDER
*Macho Man beats Hollywood Hogan for nWorld Heavyweight Championship in Steel Cage
*Miss Elizabeth turns on (low blows) nWorld Heavyweight Champion Macho Man Randy Savage. Liz joins WCW/nWo (nWo red lipstick)
#WWE
#WWEREWRITE
#NWO
#uncensored
#HollywoodHogan
#ScottHall
#WCW
#worldheavyweight
#thunder
nWo "ends" in a tornado match at nWo Souled Out 2000.
Jeff Jarrett (WCW World)
Bret Hart (nWorld)
Hulk Hogan
Macho Man
tornado match with both titles on the line but only one can be won
Jarrett "screws over" Hart to capture nWorld.
Jarrett appears on nWo Monday Nitro to give a promo ala the opposite of Shane Douglas christening ECW.
Jarrett "does away" with the nWorld Heavyweight Championship to signify/glorify the WCW World Heavyweight Championship.
nWo is NO MORE as Russo and Jarrett resurrect WCW MONDAY NITRO therefore causing the Outsiders (Hall & Nash) to rally; nWo 4 Life pay per view.
Jarrett faces Sid Vicious at nWo 4 Life for WCW Heavyweight Championship
Outsiders vs Hulk Hogan and Macho Man
Jarrett sneaks a win over Sid Vicious. Jeff Jarrett vs Shane Douglas for WCW HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPIONSHIP at WCW LUST
WWE REWRITE
nWo
4 Life
A one-off affair; the nWo 4 Life pay per view is held as Outsiders (Scott Hall and Kevin Nash) rebuttal to Jeff Jarrett at nWo Souled Out 2k and furthermore Jarrett lacking the jurisdiction to end the new World order.
Aligning with booker Vince Russo; Jeff Jarrett "does away" with nWorld Heavyweight Championship and evolves from THE CHOSEN ONE to "THE BRAND" Jeff Jarrett to signify World Championship Wrestling (WCW) as the sports entertainment company to watch and rightfully dignify the World Heavyweight Championship.
Thus resurrecting WCW MONDAY NITRO while WCW Thursday remains intact and upgrades.
A newly tuned OUTSIDERS eventually emerge with Kevin Nash appearing first with the once "done away" nWorld Heavyweight Championship.
Nash claims despite Jarrett's second generation credentials in the sport; Jarrett's "SLAP NUTS" lack the proper stroke to end the nWo.
Thus Outsiders announce; nWo 4 Life
The Outsiders at the helm and calling all the shots.
nWo 4 Life matches include:
Outsiders
vs
Hulk Hogan and Sting
Macho Man Randy Savage
w/Gorgeous George
vs
Buff Bagwell w/Lady Luck
THE TOTAL PACKAGE
THE LEX LUGER w/Elizabeth
vs
Curt Hennig
Eric Bischoff and Bret Hart in attendance.
Despite it's theme; nWo 4 Life caters to WCW by featuring two matches deeming them: 2 SWEET
FATAL FOUR NUMBER ONE CONTENDER:
Diamond Dallas Page
vs
Booker T
vs
Shane Douglas
vs
Ric Flair
WCW WORLD HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPIONSHIP:
Jeff Jarrett
vs
Sid Vicious
Outsiders sit ringside as nWo gives WCW the red carpet treatment to the ring. Shane Douglas wins number one contender match as Jarrett sneaks a screwjob win over Sid Vicious.
Vince Russo joins Jeff Jarrett in ring to celebrate the title defense as Outsiders emerge from their seats to join in ring as well.
Nash raises his right palm high in the air to seemingly congratulate Jarrett (with a high five)
Jarrett and Russo exchange looks as the two exit ring and flee through the arena crowd and exit the building.
Nash and Hall close the show posing with nWo theme music.
Shane Douglas emerges from the entrance way. Douglas scans the arena crowd and sets his stare at Hall and Nash.
#WWEREWRITE
#nWo
#nWo4Life
#JeffJarrett
#Outsiders
#nWorldHeavyweight
#WorldHeavyweight
Prime NWO will always be the glory days of professional wrestling
@CommonSense8421
Wrong
This guy expects anyone to believe he didn’t jump at the chance to do wcw thunder a new 2 hour tv show this podcast is jus blowing smoke 💨 what a bs lie
You weren't there. Criticize all you want but he was there and lived it.
@@deepblue8143 dude i stopped watching this podcast because he can't remember anything ..he always resorts to ..i can't member that
The nWo got too bloated and many who joined just joined for no reason.
Also,Bagwell sucked. If he wasn't a Shawn Michaels expy,he would've never gotten the Main Event spot in War Games '97 and other events. He woudn"t even be in the nWo.
Trust me,if the REAL HBK showed up in WCW,Bagwell would've been imediately kicked out of the nWo.
Man star cade 97 brought in over 700,000 buys the rest with hogan and another star didn’t even touch it. I feel like sting doesn’t get his just do. He’s always shorted some kinda why when we talk about him or the goats of wrestling not saying he was the best cuz I give the goat title to Flair. But ppl need to put more respect on stings name man
I feel like the changes taking place, in the area of entertainment between 1998 and 2001 do not get talked about enough in regards to the decline in viewers.
People my age who were devoted wcw fans were getting jobs and heading to college, video games were becoming way better and more abundant the internet had become a place to kind of hang out in itself.
It was so easy to get distracted by new hobbies or activities at that time.
I am not saying that bad decisions were not a big factor, but o do think that wrestling in general was destined to lose fans attention.
You are right on point. I never thought of that. Same thing for me. I kinda lost interest in wrestling all together.
How does that explain WWF being way hotter than WCW during that 98-2001 time period?
@MarsKidd27 oh I don't think there is any debate over who was hotter for sure it was wwf. I was just addressing what I believe to be a large factor in the decline of wcw in general.
But why would all the things you mentioned only affect wcw fans and not wwf fans? Why did they stay, and even grow?
@baconatorrodriguez4651 I actually thought wrestling in general began to decline in viewership in the following 4 to 5 year. Idk maybe I'm wrong
Vince Russo and Eric HATE each other and they still both agree Time Warner played a huge part in ruining WCW, when the easy and more believable option would be to blame each other. Dave Meltzer and his gaggle of smarks have set the narrative so aggressively that those two have been attacked and blamed ruthlessly when politics above thier pay grade was to blame. Anyone who didn't realize the turn of Warner to appealing to young millennial girls from the catalogue of their channels and actually lived through that period would know Eric and Vince Russo are correct in their assessment of the situation. You can think they're both liars and also admit they do have a point that is positioned in reality, as seen by the other stuff that went on at Warner around the same time. I'm sorry but millennials killed WCW. It sucks to hear but we're probably way more to blame than those guys were. 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Did nWo Nitro ultimately suffer because it put nWo solo performance for 2-3:hours perhaps stretching 2 SWEET far too thin without any real substance making the hostile takeover; fakey and flakey
I mean Eric deserved to be fired. And I'm talking about calculated reserved this podcast version of Eric Bischoff got fired immediately from his WWF creative job
They Should have kept the NWO just the original three then once it got Stale Let Hall and Nash Turn on Hogan.
Have sting beat hogan, nash and Hall come down and beat up hogan. Hogan disappears and so do nash and hall
Them two come back with bret as third member
Hogan returns baby face
I respect Eric for the nwo but other than that and Goldberg he buried most of the talent he had and he failed his ego got in his own way it's why I think he's jealous that Tony khan has started a company from scratch and has lasted 5 years and built a good fan base already
Can someone interpret what was said around 1 hr 9 min ..."Sting or possibly who/what??" It seemed edited out
did Conrad just say Gimmick Meat? definitely using that term
I’m about to wrap up WCW but I wish nWo 2000 went on longer because I genuinely enjoyed Jeff Jarrett’s push around that era. Also wish there was more of a conclusion to OG nWo but at least Hulk went back to Hollywood before he left
I always felt like I was the only one who enjoyed ol Double J in WCW. Glad I'm not the only one who did.
I'm guilty too I was always down with Double J
Idk why people flake on him. He was the spotlight of late 99-mid 00 and he deserved it imo. I’m glad he got to hold the belt and get his main event push. He played his heel character perfectly and when came back and struck Buff Bagwell with a guitar and asked who had the stroke, I personally thought that was a big deal haha
I actually enjoyed nwo 2000 also.
I can’t remember a single thing nWo 2000 did of any significance.
Nwo had two many people in it
I’ve like the last few episodes of more esoteric topics where it’s more free form for Eric
Great change up to the format
Also Eric fantasy booking may not be your thing but we as fans don’t get to hear the literal creative process very much
We always hear about it afterwards. Very few examples of getting to see it in action so fantasy booking is as close as it gets
Wolfpac /Hollywood was so disappointing
I just got to the beginnings of it in my rewatch and it started great. Hollywood being the heel group being sell outs sticking with hogan for movie parts, merch money etc. hogan/bishcoff had gotten to focused on making it a brand in storyline and nash/savage we’re about the brotherhood of the nWo.
The split was great. If they’d really committed to it and made Wolfpack look strong it could’ve carried them through 98
I font agree with Eric as much as I like him.I think NWO storyline is way better than the bloodline storyline iits not evrn close .Im surprised he said that a few times cause Nwo was his idea n storyline
I agree with Eric with ddp, Goldberg, sting
The Giant,Chris Jericho,Rey Mysterio,Eddy Guerrero,Booker T, Dean Makenko,Raven,DDP, ETC were alot of unknowns...the nWo put those guys on the map...... whole roster really.... perfect example how big NITRO was...was when Jericho debuted on RAW and got that HUGE reaction coming off of WCW TV ( never hear about that )
Rey Mysterio wrestling Kevin Nash early 1999 was damn cool
WCW & the NWO storyline introduced a lot of talent, but by no means created ANY stars.
Goldberg is a legend. Jericho was a made man by the time he left for the WWF. DDP was a breakout star from the Rodman/Malone matches alone. Are you dumb?
Because Eric Bischoff is a reluctant participant in fantasy booking, he won't be too much in love with an idea to lose it. That means he's focused on cooking the best story he can... And I like it.
Bret Hart should have versed Hollywood Hogan for the World Heavyweight Championship
The beginning of the nWo split was brilliantly done, with the Mega Powers splitting, and Kevin Nash/Scott Hall breaking away (in the aftermath of Syxx being ostracized). Konnan aligning with Nash/Hall/Savage was natural.
It wasn't until that summer, when Hall turned and Luger/Sting joined, that things got muddied. Sting and Savage getting injured, Hall being unreliable, and Hogan "running for President" by War Games basically stuck a fork in the blowoff.
I have never really had a very high opinion of Eric. When he is being seemingly honest and introspective he’s absolutely riveting. Love this episode.
He had one good idea- nwo, and drove it into the ground, he was fired soon after bc he has no other ideas
Eric needed a bunch of B listers in the NWO because his main guys would only wrestle (somewhat) at the PPV's.
& would normally stink up those matches. Especially hogan during 98. It was just terrible ppv showing after terrible ppv showing
Hall and Nash were regulars on Nitro.
@@TheKevinNewsomYes, but they were mostly short main events full of stalling and rest holds until a DQ. Especially in 97/98.
@@TheKevinNewsom yeah, talking om Nitro
@@jamminjohn I can tell you weren't a regular viewer. Namely because Nitros were usually better than PPVs lol.
This is such an important episode
Facts
NWO one trick pony. You're giving it too much credit, man. I get it. I thought that was you one trick, so you think it was the greatest.
I agree but feel the same way about Roman rn
If the NWO was disbanded after Starrcade '97, what would or could have replaced it? An NWO civil war in '98 was perfectly logical. The problem was the stars involved and how it was executed.
Agreed. From February-June, the split made perfect sense. The Wolfpac continued to be OVER, but it got silly when Bret, Luger, Sting, and Hall aligned with Hogan, robbing both WCW and Wolfpac of key members that would have "helped lead those respective rosters."
Wow his hair grew back fast!!
Eric Bischoff, when he had power, dismissed those he thought he was better than, and generally treated people as though they were beneath him. Fast forward a few decades, and he acts very contrite for what he did. Personally, I think you see a true person's self when they're on top of the world. Either be humble, grateful, and helpful with your good fortune, or act as an egotistical judgmental person. That was Eric.. seems a lot like Shawn Michaels, and I say screw them both.
I agree. I judge a person on how they treat people who can do absolutely nothing for them
Sold out was an awful name. 😖 it just says generic and unoriginal. What do I know? I'm just a fan.
Soul'd out 😂😂😂
Nwo got stupid by early 97 when everyone joined. Should’ve always stayed hulk, Nash, hall and xpac
Only WWF guys I felt like it should’ve been
WCW never got any of TBS/TNT ad dollars except for PPV etc. =How they ever ran the TV shows without the advertising money is a mystery to me. -It is shocking it lasted as long as it did.
Also it's been said that people who worked in other Turner broadcasting departments who were afraid to report their losses had actually moved their losses into WCW. So it made it look like WCW was losing more money than they were.
I think Conrad should get Sullivan and Eric together to rebook the invasion.
As good as the NWO storyline was I always feel like it still could've been that much better
The too many versions didn't help. Like Eric said by mid 98 or so it wasn't the same. By 99 it was dead i would say
100% agree with you
Also I gotta say it because I just rewatched it recently. Macho joining the NWO still made no sense to me lol
@@Caesarishome84 bret in wcw was like the biggest mistake lol. Savage didn't belong in there either but still was booked better than bret i feel like.
Faster than firing the Honkey Tonk Man. L0L0L0L0L0L0L0L! That intro ad was epic!
I had given up on wrestling for several years until someone said that Hogan had turned heel in wcw. That's when i came back and i was in for years...at least to 99 - 2000. I have wwe on peacock and I watch the Monday night wars documentary all the time...and the bash at the beach 3rd man reveal etc. The best time for wrestling and nwo was the spark. Good job Eric. You definitely gave Vince a run for the money. Good shit :)
Even 100k in ppv sales would generate 3 million in revenue. The typical split would be 10% to the PPV company, 45% to the televisión network which in this case is TBS and 45% to the promoter, WCW. This is one reason or was a great business model because Ted Turner owned the network and the promoter so he received 2.7 million with 1.35 on the books for TBS and 1.35 for WCW. WCW would get all the money for the live event tickets as the merchandice and other miscellaneous streams of income. 15,000 seats sold would generate another 300k so easily a total of 3 million for the night where as WWE would've made roughly 1.7 million with the same numbers. This is a big reason WCW had a real shot at winning at one point because they're owner owned the network which allowed them to make more money than Vince. But then they merged with AOL and imo nothing would save them. I honestly think that played a roll inwhy the shows got so bad bc their parents company did not want them to succeed and everyone started to go to crazy booking angles to try and fix something that was really unfixable.
Loved how he said "talked to God" I do to Eric.
Let’s get over it lol NWO was fun and exhausting. So many crappy matches could have been all star. It was so predictable as well as time went on. it’s 2023. 1996 I was 12 watching wrestling instead of talking to girls lol 😂
Hey you're an 84 baby too! 👍
Your right but I still love that time in my life 😂 4 life
They should had the alliance win at survivor series bischoff then comes out on raw next night saying he couldn't put wwe out of business but he's back to take it over and On smackdown he will show up with some old friends Then on smackdown he shows up with the NWO hall Nash n Hogan then he issues a challenge to Vince ...then Vince shows up and says he'll have his answer on Monday which DX shows up and says they'll take the challenge
Would have been awesome. Cuz the company quickly went in the shitter after survivor series.
DX would have consisted of just Billy Gunn. Chyna and Road Dogg just left the company, X-Pac and Hunter were injured and Shawn was getting clean and sober at the time
Splitting into two brands, even if it was a good idea (which it wasn't), wouldn't have been satisfying storytelling, which is what made the nWo so good until it fizzled out. My idea for giving it extra legs would have been to splinter it not into black & white vs. Wolfpac, but rather Hogan, Hall, and Nash as faces against the rest of them as heels. Then you get a face run out of them and then eventually you get to reset the original members as heels without the bloat and run through another cycle.
The only criticism I have for Russo’s booking in his first run in WCW (October 1999 - January 2000) would be the way he went about the nWo. I don’t know what his logic was, but if you’re going to have them in collusion with each other for this huge faction, you don’t have them in tag matches or ladder matches fighting weeks prior as if there’s nothing going on, only after the fact to have Hart come out to say “oh yeah, that punch didn’t hurt a bit” like gimme a break 😂
Eric, you should’ve had Nash win the title from Goldberg at Starcade with the help from Hall. Then on the January 4th Nitro, have him get arrested which would set up the match with Hogan, then have the nWo turn on Hogan setting up the fued of Hogan/Goldberg vs. nWo… let me know what you think if you think that might have worked!!
I still say the nWo should have debuted in the WWE by having Vince in the ring call them down and say something to the affect of he wants to congratulate and reward them because in 1996 he sent them down to invade and destroy WCW and mission accomplished
The NWO 2000 would have brought wcw back to the forefront. Injuries were the only thing holding that back
And do what, the same ish they were already doing that everyone was tired of ? Nwo went way beyond its course
And Hall leaving like 2 months later
I get Kevin treated it like f it guaranteed pay at the end of the day, the original wolfpac (syxx b4 Konnan added) was supposed to perpetuate the gangster hip hop edge to it, stand out because by time Hulk got exceptional "cool" as a bad guy contrary to his red and yellow star quality, the rest of the group was just guys shades and nwo gear. Lets be honest. Buff & Scott Steiner eventually found their nitch, Curt Hennig was Mr Perfect, always knew how to draw heat, Rick Rude to add to it helped. Everything else was ehh. Even the break off Wolfpack was Kevin trying to put the cool hes used to, over because the audience was at least aware of the hip hop influence going on at that time. Mind you 2pac and Biggie was still alive when it started, you can see these guys gestures from the beginning. And i guess the music had a edge to it, they didnt need a different theme, rock music society was golden at that time too.
And Kev bringing Konnan was by design in his involvement. Bischoff was a great heel, being the boss. Him being a lowkey boss, like not selling it, he was just a innocent announcer so it rocked the boat when he did what he did. Kinda put Ted in the back slowly though. Giant shouldve never joined. Nwo japan was a great market, how big they already was made it work.
The NWO red n. Black Wolfpack ruined the Nwo it was a horrible idea Kevin Nash actually said on his Kilq podcast he didn't like Wolfpack it was bad idea he said They weren't heels no more which sucked
@frankdeangelo6327 yea but thats looking back. Im talkin about candidly. Just like how Bischoff described, how after the new sensation of this angle taking off, it lost its purpose b4 the split, the creatives started making subjective decisions
@frankdeangelo6327 you cant know until after its done
Konnan fit in perfectly with Wolfpac.
As a fan I stopped watching Nitro regularly after "the finger poke of doom."
why?
Never would’ve thought about EA giving them that money and that being a reason why they couldn’t shift when it would’ve been best for the story. That makes sense and helps me understand a big reason why they allowed the story to run itself into the ground. Crazy the things that go on that unless you’re there and dealing with it you’d never think about.
Sting should of got rid of the NWO with Hogan losing at Starrcade. Then as time goes on Sting turns heel because he was against NWO and the WCW turned on him atleast in his mind... and then here comes Goldberg. Ugh the possibilities after Starrcade 97'. Too many egos and too much creative control BROTHER.
The problem with mapping the nwo out was that it wasn’t a true storyline…it was more like an attitude and vibe that Hall/Nash/Hogan/EazyE embodied.
I think if the NWO's whole run only included Hogan, Nash, Hall, Syxx, Bagwell, Norton, Macho, Steiner, Curt Hennig, and Konnan it could've stayed hot. To me, that was the nucleus. Everyone else were either boring AF (Vincent, Bubba, IRS, Bryan Adams, Horace etc) or just better on team WCW (Stevie Ray, Lex Luger, Sting, Big Show). idk my opinion
Imagine this Eric, Mean Gene and Bobby Heenan in the nWo vs. you and Tony representing WCW
I’m sorry I’m commenting as I listen to this podcast. Bottom line is that the NWO would have been another forgettable faction without Hogan as the third man. Eric can claim and blame all he wants but he is also forgettable without Hogan.
Yea Hogan actually needed to exercise it that 1 time because it wasn't changed when he only said that didn't work for me brother. He used it a million times but only had to send the fax once cuz Russo said fuck that. Eric is so good with words. Sell cars bro lol
Should have had the 4 Horsemen run the nWo off and have them take of WCW Saturday. They needed some definitive defeats
I Hav 2 Disagree Wit Eric Bout One Thing He Said And That Was Tha NWO Storyline/ Angle Was Tha #1 Biggest Game Changer In Wrestling Business I Say Yea Of Course NWO Storyline Is Everything Bischoff Said It Was Game Changin History But In My Opinion It's Tha #2 Spot On That List Cuz In My Personal Opinion Tha Most Impactful Game Changer In Tha History Of Wrestling Biz 4 Eva Is Tha Long Runnin Huge Epic At #1 : Austin / McMahon Rivals Storyline Angle Was Bigger & Betta Impact , Importance Or Influence For Tha Long Term Wrestling Business Continuing To Still Be So Successful ✊🦏
The part about Turner wanting Thunder on TBS but no one willing to pay for it doesn't make sense. To my knowledge, isn't all programming on television paid for by the station that's airing it? Why didn't this come up when Turner wanted to launch Nitro in 1995? Not to mention WCW was in a far better place before the launch of Thunder than they were before the launch of Nitro. Something doesn't seem right. For instance, I'm pretty sure USA and Fox pay WWE a pretty penny to run Raw and Smackdown.
They wouldn't pay production costs for Thunder. Since WCW was banking in 97 (and ended up making even more money in 98), Time Warner told Bischoff to pay for the production costs of Thunder from WCW's revenue. Since TW owned WCW, they didn't have to pay WCW anything to produce more programming. USA and FOX don't own WWE; they pay money to WWE to broadcast their shows.
Turner owned WCW and was airing it own their own networks. Nobody was paying a rights fee.
@@DR.64A9 Ok I got it. Didn't realize the rights fee issue was involved (and Bischoff has actually mentioned this before.) I guess my only other question would be how come this wasn't an issue with Nitro in '95?
The NWO angle was good. I didn’t care for Hogan much to even back in 1996 He was passed his prime and Vince knew this back in 1992 that Hogan was pretty much done and wrestlers like Bret Hart Shawn Michaels and undertaker was the future of the WWF in the early and mid 90s…. A lot of people talk about the Austin vs McMahon storyline it was entertaining at times, but it was overdone, and it would never hold a candle to what WCW was doing with the NWO in 1996 and 1997 but in 1998 I will admit the NWO storyline was getting pretty boring I don’t remember watching much of nitro in 98 but the Goldberg undefeated streak was really hot during that time and NWO was pretty much fading out
1:33:05 How about the angle in January, 1984 when former heel Hulk Hogan returned from AWA where he'd nearly won their world title back to WWF where he tagged with Bob Backlund for one match and then beat The Iron Shiek to win the WWF title and start Hulkamania? You're going to ask "What's the storyline there?" Well, Vince plucked the AWA's top contender by far and ushered him into the WWF to put their belt on him almost immediately. You could also look to Hogan being a heel in WWF just a few years prior managed by Freddie Blassie and returning as the long-running greatest super-hero character of all time in wrestling. You could say that Hulkamania brought about Wrestlemania and popularized pro wrestling for the mainstream. Maybe you can dicker about whether that's an angle, just like someone could dicker about whether a lot of what the NWO did was storyline, but I think Hulkamania had a bigger impact on wrestling than did the NWO. Of course, nods to Hogan to being the key guy in both.