Absolutely. Like Conrad said, if they knew before the match that "Sting's head wasn't in it" or whatever bullshit excuse, then why even let Sting win, botched as it may have been? They tried to have their cake (make Hogan seem like the superior wrestler) and eat it too (have Sting ultimately win the belt). Hogan is on the offensive for most of the match, and even given the normal count, Sting STILL doesn't kick out right after 3. But yet the slower-than-planned count was supposedly a miscommunication? It fits right in with the rest of the match, which is Hogan looking dominant...
Sting not being tan actually makes sense. Why would The Crow version of Sting be tan when he's basically just lurking in the rafters and shadows...makes no sense for him to be tan. He's not surfer sting, a tan would make sense for that version of Sting.
I thought of the same thing I thought how Sting was during 1997 fits his character even sting have problems with his personal life there no reason not to give him the title clean why a Tan even matters
In other interviews before the podcast shot interview rennissance eric also mentioned he was out of shape and hadnt been working out. And arguably he was right. Still shouldnt have changed the ending and only used Brett after.the match ended
It would have looked pretty damn stupid to me if Sting came out with a tan.....this was a guy that was supposed to be hiding in the darkness and lightning this whole time, always dressed in a trenchcoat.....A FUCKING TAN?!? The look was supposed to be THE CROW! Brandon Lee didn't have a fuckin tan! Did anyone even tell Sting to go get a fucking tan?!? Why the fuck would Steve Borden be under the impression he should be TAN!?!?!?....Even if Sting WASN'T in the shape he could or should have been, it was part of the kayfabe the whole time that Sting may be rusty, so this was already a possible expectation to begin with, but most importantly, wrestling is a damn work! We all know Ric Flair would have still put on a hell of a match with Sting. We all know what the conclusion to the 16-month storyline SHOULD have been. Instead Hogan just squashed the guy, Bret and Sting looked like dorks. Hogan was the only one that looked good.
Credit to Bischoff for showing up and taking his licks. BUT nothing he says explains the stunning ineptitude of this shit-show. This one event was simultaneously the highest, and the lowest point of WCW in one night. How is Sting "not ready for this", or "not able to pull it off"?! He's a 12 year veteran at this point who was their World champion multiple times before this. You just invested a year and a half of primetime television, and millions of dollars into building this...one...moment. But suddenly, at the 11th hour, because Sting shows up with the equivalent of "ketchup on his shirt", all of that gets flushed?!?!?!? Well I just learned all I needed to know about how WCW ended up not existing less than 3 and a half years after this.
I know this happened right around this time, but not sure if it happened at this exact moment, but Sting had lost his father. He was also going through marital issues, as road life for Sting was catching up to him. He reconciled with his wife around 1998, and became a born again Christian after that. Not making any excuses, but that was Sting's "mentality" back then. I know Sting touched on it with his book "Moment of Truth". No excuse though, Sting should have worked out, and got back into ring shape before that match. But I don't think he had the hunger for it, after that.
@@acewillingham he just didnt wanna go into Stings substance issues at that time. If he just said, Sting was a junkie, and he came into the arena that night and we felt we needed an out put into the finish, with the fast count.
@@kevingillman8062 Sure. He had been cheating on his wife for years, and developed a bit of a pain pill addiction too. This was what led up to his 6 month absence following Halloween Havoc of 1998. None of that justifies the ridiculousness of the way the Starrcade 97 match played out.
The tanning complaints are the most hilarious of all. Storyline-wise, hadn't Sting just spent fifteen months lurking in rafters with a broken heart? Yet Starrcade night rolls around and he's supposed to have the Surfer era body. 😂
The line “That doesn’t work for me brother” has crossed into my real life situations at work, with family i just throw it out there and people just can’t think of a comeback... I mean what can you say? I see how Hogan made it and stayed at the top using his leverage
Well Sting could have still went over on Hogan Later Down the Line & if Sting wasn’t With it & was out of it from substance issues or w/e, or was not dedicated to the company, (then u gotta stop pushing tht guy & instead build someone else to replace them Etc) ... then I could understand why a company wouldn’t want to send them to the moon .......... & With All That said I think where the Ball was Really Dropped was when They never had The NWO Wolfpac Face Hollywood Black & White , & have The Wolfpac go over with Sting taking out Hulk, & then Sting could have battled with Goldberg w/ Wolfpac Help (but still get a clean win at a PPV as he starts to fall out with the Wolfpac) ... then have Sting go to War with the Wolfpac (& could also have Goldberg Go to War with the NWO & then the factions consolidate into one & Sting + Goldberg both have Storylines facing the One Solid NWO Stable........They could have Done sooo much, but what they needed to have happen, was to have the NWO vs WolfPac with Sting going over on Hogan Clean as the other members of the Stable battle eachother Etc........The Wolfpac had to go over on Hulk & the Hollywood Black & White.......& it would have been better to have NASH & Hall together Etc...... Then Hall & Nash could have had a Split & Both go solo but then have Nash Ally with Sting & Hall Allies with Goldberg, it works so well Cuz NASH & Hall can cover the mic side of the Angle Etc & you have 4 guys who are super over , & having them In The Main (Title/Mainevent) Angle together, where they each would only get more popular, it would be like Rock & Austin (facing eachother & only making eachother that much more Over Etc)
I like Bischoff bt I'm sorry his explanation for why sting didn't go over clean Dat night was clearly bullshit. If he wasn't ready how come no fan in America noticed that he was off. Like wat does that even really mean?? "He wasn't ready"? Wtf I wouldn't be shocked if hogan was the one that gave bischoff that excuse of an idea
If Sting showed up in the best shape of his life, it wouldn’t have mattered. Hogan didn’t want to put Sting over and Hogan had the final say, case closed...
lambertearnhardt68 totally agree with you,Eric Bischoff let the Inmates run the asylum and look What happened,The finger poke of Doom is a fucking joke,Sting got screwed after Starcade fact,Hogan never wanted to put any one over but the end of the day if he did then he wouldn’t be in the top spot would he so I can see his point in a way,bischoff is fucking a lapdog
Right...the only reason he put over ppl in wwe is because he knew Vince was in charge and wouldn't just let Hogan do as he pleased. Ric is considered by some just as good and others way better than Hogan and Flair would put over a broom if he had to. I can never understand why Hogan thought a loss would hurt him somehow. It's like if the Predator got away from Arnold and Arnold saying that cant happen ppl wont believe I wont kill everything. It's a story Hogan drop the ego......brother lol
@@horrorfan4-life689 Hogan jobbed to the Giant for the WCW title. Goldberg for the WCW title. Luger for the WCW title. Sting for the WCW title. Flair for the WCW title. Just to do a favor to help out his indy-fed in Canada he jobbed to Jacques Rougeau............but your right. Hogan NEEEEEEVVER jobbed to anyone in WCW? Here's a fun fact. Hogan jobbed more titles away in WCW than Austin did in the WWF.
D2K Prime how does hogan taste brother? It’s 2020 and we are sucking off a racist, misogynistic piece of garbage. I couldn’t imagine being a baby boomer holding onto the last strands of your oiled up hero.
It didn't matter if Sting wasn't tan or didn't seem super excited about it. You spent a year and a half building to it. Do the match, Sting win clean, and screw him over the next night if you're that worried about it. There's just no defending this match unless he was Jeff Hardy wasted, which he clearly wasn't.
Exactly! I came here to say exactly this! There's no excuse whatsoever for the way this match played out on TV. Bischoff is just unable to face the fact that this single moment revealed just how much he was flying by the seat of his pants during WCW's hot streak, and exposed his weaknesses as the leader of the company. The bottom line is there absolutely was a guy who showed up unprepared to the MCI Center that night, but his name was Eric Bischoff.
they then spent the next year building wolfpack vs hollywood with the payoff being the finger poke of doom. being a wcw fan was like an abusive relationship
Jesus Christ. This is gold. This interview is gold. The animosity Conrad has for this match is gold. Then I come here and CM Punk is in the comments? Definitely a Too Sweet moment for me at work at 3:40am.
Eric had to give hogan creative control or he would not have ever came back to wrestling and joined wcw he had no interest at the time or at least played off that he didn’t so he could not
yea im not picking either side here but man i was a huge mark at this time in wrestling history and NOBODY and i mean NOBODY except maybe the columnist in the the pwi type magazines batted an eye a this flub up lol, nobody was like OOOOOOOOOOOOOO i bet hogan made that happen.....wtf they wasn't a fast count.....there was a bit of confusion that is it and the show went on and we moved onto the next ppv. Now i will agree that if this happened today in the wwe universe the way it is now where everything is out in the open and internet is more widely accessible with podcasts and all this and that then yes this would have been the reaction to it but man when it really happened nobody gave a crap, nobody gave it a second thought.
@YTCensorsMe Poop yea at this point we hadn't even gotten to mark madden as color commentator yet kissing russon's butt every night lol :) sting vs. hogan was just a small bump in the road of wcw's demise but it was in no way the epicenter of what killed wcw not by a long shot. Conrad's reaction may be the reaction of "marks" now adays but when it actually happened it just seemed like business as usual.
Bret screwed himself! Regardless of whatever shitty angle he was in he had the opportunity to make it good-great because of his exceptional skill in the ring but instead he was just half-assing it and was a shell of his former self after everything that went down at 1997’s Survivor Series in Montreal. Let’s face it, his mic skills really were awful but because of his in ring skills he was a top level guy but he seemed as if he didn’t care or have the drive anymore and could only be the Hitman if he was in/held that top spot.
socalisurfer13 That is the biggest load of shit I’ve ever read. Everyone who worked with Bret in WCW would tell you that you’re dead ass wrong, because every ONE of them that worked with him came out looking better for; because he was still the best worker in the business. He elevated Booker, and Benoit to main event status after they worked with him. It had ZERO to do with him phoning anything in, and everything to do with WCW’s horrid booking starting around the time he came in. They had the hottest baby face in the business, and the squandered him, and kept flipping him back and forth with no real plan to do anything with him, most likely because that’s what fucking Hogan wanted. Then, when he finally got a chance to do something, after Bischoff left, Goldberg was a reckless idiot, and ended his career.
rudy2fat No he didn’t. Bret was there for two and a half years. From late 97 until well into 2000 (he wrestled with a career ending series of concussions for months). Bret was still there, wrestling Benoit, just before Benoit left. They wrestled in the Mayhem tournament, and prior to that the tribute match for Owen. Bret took Booker from mostly just a rag team guy in 98, to a legit singles star. Booker winning the US title was due in large part because he had some great matches with Bret. Benoit won the title not long after those two matches with Bret, because being in the ring with Bret (who had just won the title himself) showed he was in that class.
6:38 "It was miscommunication, it wasn't Hulk working a gimmick, it wasn't trying to take it, it wasn't any of it." Nick Patrick has since come out and said that Hulk Hogan told him to slow count the finish and Bischoff knew it and hid in the office all day when Patrick would try to ask him what to do.
Eric was always afraid to tell Hogan no to anything. Hogan always got what he wanted and Eric won't ever admit it but he screwed over Sting for the sake of doing whatever Hogan wanted. Hogan didn't want to lose clean so this was the result we got, which would be the beginning of the end of WCW. Shout out to Conrad for calling Eric out on his bs!
Even if he did say no Hogan has an ego the size of the US plus he had creative control and would have told Eric to fuck off anyway.WCW was fun and I enjoyed watching it while it lasted but sooner or later letting the inmates run the asylum is bound to come crashing down.
Hogan basically made wrestling what it is today he deserved the ability to have control over certain things. Honestly listening to Eric in this I think makes a lot of sense.
Huge credit to both guys on taking each other's fire and making this a good promo. The sad reality is: the fans were shorted of the best build of a match in wrestling history regardless of why.
@Bold One It would have violated Bret's non-compete. He could show up on WCW television but he couldn't wrestle for three months, which is why they brought him in all weird like they did. It also would have put a damper on what they'd been building between Sting and the nWo for over a year. Then again, it already had a damper on it because of the booking cluster it was, so...
@@TheNeonParadox Bret wrestled Flair in January of 98. I don't think he had a 90 day wait, as Vince got him to see if the old offer was still available.
We all know Hogan absolutely played the "That doesnt work for me brother" card that night and to play it off as it was Stings issue is bullshit, it was a typical Hogan issue as it has been in SEVERAL other instances
I have a hard time buying the narrative that Sting 'wasn't ready'. This isn't The Ultimate Warrior on his way up the ladder, this is an industry veteran, one of the most accomplished and professional performers in the industry at that time. He's not Goldberg. He has already been "the guy" and been the face of WCW for years. He, along with Ric Flair, put that company on the map. He spends a year or so descending from the rafters with a 'solemn' look on his face, because that was the gimmick, and you want to have him do a ring walk entrance with his classic, surfer charsima? Drop him from the rafters if the 'Crow' gimmick isn't compatible with an entertaining entrance. Maybe have the wherewithal to think that through BEFORE you get there... Also, about the tan and the physique, BS. Sting looked fine. He didn't look emaciated. He looked like Sting. There aren't a lot of wrestlers in the history of the industry with a physique comparable to Hogan. And Sting hadn't had been cartoonishly jacked in YEARS. Go back and look at his physique from '95-'96 and tell me that he looked like he markedly different than he did in '97-'98. No matter what Sting was going through, he always had the reputation of being a consummate professional. To not trust him after so much effort and so many times where he electrified the building during that run...it's unfathomable.
Tomas Nichols agree with you completely. I recently re watched the match and Stings arms were just as big as Hogan’s. You can see them toe to toe right in the beginning of the match. He hadnt wrestled for a year so of course he’ll have some ring rust but no reason to not let him win clean. Also if you noticed over the next few months from superbrawl, uncensored, spring stampede, slamborree and through his wolfpac days sting ends up actually getting even bigger. Despite he’s personal issues, he always put on an awesome show for the fans. They should have just done right by him and let him beat Hogan clean and then officially go through the NWO one by one after that night defending his title.
@@sharkgrayc7z06corvette9 I think they booked it wrong. Sting and Hogan is like Hogan and Flair. They need a prop/gimmick. Also, how is there not a storyline stipulation to deal with the inevitable interference of the nWo? I think the best possible match, especially given Sting's ring rust and that Hogan has never been a technician in any way, shape, or form, would have been a cage match. Hogan is Hogan, so if he doesn't want to win clean, if you need heat going forward, okay, cool. Have each guy look strong, fight to a stalemate in the cage, have the inevitable chaos of a WCW/nWo brawl outside the cage, and then have Bret Hart, your new hottest heel, come up through the ring and deck Hogan with Sting's bat. Sting wins. Cool match, both guys look strong, you get a feud with Hogan and possibly the hottest wrestler in the business at that time (thanks to the Montreal Screwjob), and THEN you have Sting running the rest of the nWo gauntlet while Hogan feuds with Hart. Obviously, Hogan would go over on Hart, who was always cool with that, and then a Sting/Hogan rematch later in the year yields a clean win for Sting. That's about when Hogan started drawing the curtain on his WCW run... Meanwhile you have Goldberg coming up, and I think Goldberg/Sting (while Bill was still hot) maybe turns Sting heel better than Hogan ever did, but if not you basically get a great match either way as Sting and Goldberg always had great chemistry. Meanwhile, Bret Hart gets a meaningful role/feud right out the gate, and I think it's the kind of thing that, even with a loss, it's still momentum. Have him carry the midcard scene with the US strap and either book him with Sting for the world title or wait on Goldberg. I loved Sting in the Wolfpac, but objectively it made no sense.
Tomas Nichols yea I think this would have been better. The thing is if you watch how Sting came out and acted during the match he actually played the crow character perfectly. His entrance was epic and throughout the match he kind of just stands there looking at Hogan and acts like who cares if you hit me I’m just gonna take you out at some point (which could have easily happened if they just let him win clean). If you recall a year prior when he came down from the crowd to confront the Steiners. Rick Steiner beats him up a few times and knocks him down only for Sting to dodge him once, scorpion deathdrop and that was it. Same thing could have happened here with Hogan. It was about being in his best shape ever, it was the fact that this character was basically a ghost who was inevitably gonna save wcw regardless. I remember watching live as a kid being confused as to why the next night on nitro sting had to have a rematch against hogan after he won at starrcade only to have the belt stripped on thunder. I remember being so let down after watching this buildup for a year. It could have been a lot better if Sting still won clean and then fully took out each NWO member one by one. That said, I do think Sting still had some classic moment with the belt afterwards. Just the fact that he would walk out w the belt on his shoulders for a few months after and not say a word was epic. He looked badass. I was pissed seeing how he lost it to savage at spring stampede with yet again another interference by Nash only for Sting to join Nash and Savage in the wolfpac a month later. I mean he was still pretty cool in the wolfpac but didn’t really make sense for him to join them after they both screwed him out of the belt. That was never really addressed at all. WCW could have tried to do right by him by letting Sting beat Goldberg on Nitro. I have to say to this day that was still one of the best matches on nitro until Hogan had to interfere. Sting had Goldberg beat and would have been awesome to end the streak that night and see him come out with the belt Thursday’s night on nitro in his wolfpac paint. He could have lost it after or even that night in thunder but still would have been cool to see. And one more thing to add. If it’s really true that management had no idea what was going on with Sting until the day of starrcade then shame on them. They invested so much time and energy in this year long build up that it really makes no sense how they weren’t in good contact with him. Like since this stuff is obviously scripted and this was supposed to be the biggest match in wrestling history wouldn’t you think that Bischoff would have Hogan and Sting in the ring practicing for this a month or so prior to this main event? They could have literally planned out the entire match step by step and Sting would have gotten some practice in to get some of the rust off. Or maybe take it even a step further and have a meeting w Sting and Hogan as well as other NWO members and wcw guys to have it all planned out and say guys as you know we’ve been planning this for a year. At starrcade we are going to finalize the biggest story line in wrestling history. We need everyone onboard to make this happen and after this we are going to be the biggest pro wrestling business on the planet. Done. This was like doing a broadway play and getting your lines an hour before you went on stage while the writer made more edits to them. The biggest event ever in wcw history to take out wwe for good and they didn’t even do a dry run of the match lol. That’s just crazy makes no sense.
@@sharkgrayc7z06corvette9 One other thing I'll add is that Sting, in any shape, is a better wrestler than Hogan, especially at that point but he was always more athletic than Hogan. Sting's size and startling athleticism made things such as the Stinger Splash and his dropkick into high spots. Who at 6'2" 250lbs could jump out of the building like that?!? Whatever Sting looked like (he looked fine) his raw athleticism was the draw with him. Not the powerhouse of Goldberg or the physique of Hogan, but the agility and leaping ability, along with an ability to gorilla press dudes his own size, Sting was as impressive an athlete as wrestling has ever seen, frankly. Along with the dropkicks and splashes in that match, Sting also had the failed splash against the rail spot that exactly had its designed effect of "ooohhh!! Ah...." on the crowd We all forget that, ultimately, the crowd was into it the whole match. Sting and Hogan had everyone in the building in the palm of their hands. The emotional reactions were everything the match scripted them to be. It was only after the match that people started turning against it, and I think Meltzer led that charge, frankly.
Conrad is spot on. I watched Nitro and WCW a lot afterwards but this broke my heart. Eric knows he screwed up that’s why they gave Goldberg clean on Nitro as a makeup. Thanks Conrad you said what every fan wants to say.
I honestly think Stings look that night was Iconic!! The walkout, the blank stare, the emptyness just all fit the mold of the gimmick!! It may not be what E wanted to see but to the fans and everyone who knows whats up knows damn well that night Sting having that long of a layover basically debuting a new gimmick was spot on...under animated as he should have been, blank empty looking is exactly how it should have been played!
He came the closet to The Brandon Lee Crow and you exactly right the cold stare the look of the pain of the inocent and wrong doing Sting nailed it spot on
Agreed, Steve was going through personal problems, true, but wasn’t Sting? Wasn’t that the whole point of the “Crow” Sting? His presentation was perfect. Yes, he wore a bodysuit type outfit, but he looked perfectly fine as far as being in shape.
He told the truth? Meaning he read what Dave Meltzer said and that’s what he believes and that’s what you believe and so that’s the “truth”… You smarks are sad. People who were literally there making the decisions at the time have taken the time to sit down and tell you idiot smarks what happened and to a T every single time it doesn’t agree with what you already believe (based on “Meltzer”) they are lying and Conrads telling the truth. You and him need to get the fuck over yourselves.
@@cineMADvocate exactly conrad is annoying n arrogant dickhead he questions ppl who actually worked for the wrestling industry n continuously interrupts his guest while talking
This is one of the greatest exchanges of all time. I think its pretty badass that EB lets him tear into him. These podcasts are so great because I remember back in the day watching all these shows and arguing about if the angles we were watching were works or shoots with my cousins. Brings back good memories. I think the only thing we ever all agreed on what Sid's leg snapping in half was a shoot lol.
Regardless of what shape Sting was in... He has to go over clean, period.... Screw him over the follow night on Nitro... Get Sting well, and blow it off in a stipulation match at the next GAB.... Somehow Eric over booked the most important finish in the company’s history, that’s a fact and it’s not in dispute.
When Sting gets better and wins the championship, let him and Bret put on classics, it's that simple. Oh, and have Ric Flair vs Bret Hart, any sensible person would book that.
The same reason WWF never put the belt on Scott Hall or Jake Roberts. Sting at the time seemed unreliable and like maybe he was unraveling. I can understand them being apprehensive. Combine that with Hogan's ego. And then you get what happened. Who knew at the time Sting would bounce back, have some more great matches in WCW? Then go on to have a great run with TNA? He was struggling at the time.
@@SuperWarking At this point he'd been getting away with it for about fifteen years. I doubt Hulk Hogan in 1997 was afraid there'd one day be social media and video sharing platforms like RUclips where his fellow wrestlers would expose him in front of a massive audience over and over again. But that's exactly what did happen. Why? Because he pulled this kinda shit all the time over the course of his career.
@@Jayce_Alexander That is something of someone of Hogan's magnitude (Actor/Wrestler/Reality show host/etc) should have known with how rapidly society was turning more and more digital, especially in the 1990s, his past, and those who have been around him off screen would call him out first chance they get, and if they can remain unknown, even better. So please do not take this personally, but I have a hard time that someone such as Hogan, with his popularity, the thought never came to mind his pettiness would likely come out at some point, so why be petty in the first place?
@@SuperWarking He never thought that he would be caught in a sex tape scandal, a racial scandal, and other scandals as well. In the 90's, it wasn't digital. VHS tapes ruled, computers didn't come with DVD drives, Win 95 was the system of choice and video clips was Super VGA tops. Dial-up internet was the norm and downloading a picture could take some time. Pentium i586 at 200 Mhz was king. Sorry but no, while we was becoming "digital", the age where everyone was on social media was over a decade away. The most "social" was forums, IRC, and ICQ messenger. Jayce is right. No one had a clue video streaming sites would exist, or Twitter would exist, or Snapchat etc. Also, Hogan had creative control for years, he came into WCW with that in his contract, if he thought it would make him look bad, he wasn't going to do it.
Conrad shoots straight here, Hogan has always manipulated things backstage to ensure he doesn't lose clean very often. While Hulk's payday won't change much for these matches, non-clean finishes keeps his character strong and still at the top of the game ling-term. Whether its Undertaker being dangerous when he beat Hulk for title, or Bret Hart not being big enough to beat him at Summerslam or Sting not appearing ready to beat him, its always these little jibes that hurt or question the other rival guy.
it honestly comes off kind of fake af to me. Like he's trying to work a shoot knowing its fake. Like Cornette, he knows he can't back up any of his anger or attitude but its red meat for his fans.
@@Sammo212 - Nothing is fake about Cornette. That's real, legitimate salt, from someone that knows the business inside and out. Just because it hurts your feelers, doesn't make him wrong.
Hogan knew if Sting whent over clean the TORCH would have been passed to Sting. BTW you could hear the change in Eric's voice when the BS started flying out of his mouth. it is also interesting how Eric said that Sting had an energy about him like 'i know your going to screw me so let's get it over with" I think Sting know Terry would refuse to pass the TORCH. I think this was the first Domino in the companies fate.
On Sting's WWE DVD "Into the Light", they touch on this moment and Sting says it was weird that day, because there was a lot of politics going on that day. Sting is a pro and he is a smart guy - he probably felt something was off. Even if Bischoff and Hogan called him into the office to sort of debate his condition, etc., no surprise if he acted stand-offish, or absent minded. He understood anything they say is just bullshit trying the sole purpose of which was so they can somehow fuck with the finish in Hogan's favor. It's actually commendable he didn't lose his cool.
I love how he's so focused on Sting not having a tan when we are talking about a character that was suppose to be hanging out in the rafters in the dark. How and why would Sting have a tan if he had been hanging out in the dark for 15 months.
The tan is a stupid argument, but Sting looking unconnected looked awesome to me since he was The Crow. Eric is so wrong in this argument, he knows he completely f’ed up WCW in this single event. Hogan obviously got to him. He just can’t accept it. Sting was the Crow, he started to live the gimmick. As fans we treasure Flair for doing the same thing. Bischoff F’ed up, that’s the end of it. Eric just stop, you have always been a mark for Hogan. Let me quote you, “Hulk Hogan is my hero.” Come on pal...just stop it Conrad normally when you go off and act irrational, I roll my eyes. But here you nailed it. Eric will never admit, he became one of the boys, and didn’t want to let his “boys” down. Notice how he always refers to Hogan as Hulk and Sting as Steve. Come on Eric, you mark! Just put Sting over with the Deathlock, no fans would have known the difference. Moronic! I agree Conrad, I hate to say it. But I agree.
There's a lot of things that if you take Eric at face value here, you can sit there and go, "Okay, maybe that's plausible." But Conrad makes two great points: 1. If Sting "wasn't ready" why put him over at all? Why not have Hogan go over? Then you just have Hogan come out and cut a promo on Nitro the next night: "You couldn't get the job done, brother!" and then build towards Hogan/Sting 2 somehow. Done! 2. If Sting "wasn't ready" in December, why would all of that magically disappear and he's ready in February? Mentally or physically, that's a really short turnaround time to "be ready". Also, how the fuck is making Bret Hart a referee any way to get him over? He's BRET FUCKING HART! PUT HIM IN THE RING AND LET HIM WRESTLE!
@@bobby.m136 The truly nonsensical thing about this is that Bret had no reason whatsoever to take over as ref. Ref did a normal count, it wasn't a fast count. Hogan went over clean but for some reason everybody acted like he cheated. Hell, It'd be better if they just had Bret stare down the winner of the match as the ppv went off the air. Fans would be in droves tuning in to Nitro next week if they'd actually done that.
@@theazureknight9399 yup....and everyone just keeps blaming the next guy....I tend to believe sting somewhat....bischoff didn't have his shit together....and hogan probably had too much say in things....who the f knows though....all I know is they botched the most anticipated match in wrestling history.
Brian S. You think if wcw was making profit and killing in ratings , time warner wouldn’t have thought twice ??? It was a shit product , it just made sense
There are guys in this thread, who actually believe this nonsense about situational storylines, compromising WCW. Time Warner was introduced to Turner broadcasting in my opinion as a mole to upend WCW... as a favor to Vince. AOL just finished the job... more oversight... more rules... less flexibility. That is what brought down WCW... time warner probably presented the merger as something that would be hugely beneficial to Ted and he took the deal. The plan all along was to diminish WCW, from the inside out.
I was at this event live and can tell you that finish left us utterly confused because you could see even from the nosebleeds (where me and my friends sat at the then MCI Center) that the count was not fast. We walked out during the big "celebration" because it didn't make sense and we were disappointed in yet another crappy WCW PPV. Eric is 100% wrong about the fan reaction.
My theory is that Hogan went up to the ref behind Eric's back and asked him to do a normal count. Since Hogan was pretty much bulletproof and friends with all the other top guys, all of the mess got swept under the rug as "bad communication".
Conrad always says Something To Wrestle w/ Prichard is the closest we'll ever get to Vince McMahons perspective through the years. There is no doubt 83 Weeks is full of stories told from the pro Hogan perspective.
Conrad knee caps Bischoff here. Conrad could've buried him further but took his foot off the gas so he wouldn't embarrass Eric. There is NO EXCUSE for botching that finish and that was truly the beginning of the end for WCW. A match like that with some of the best build in the history of the business and it ended in a whimper. WCW never truly found their footing again.
The fact they took the finish to a match that had over a year to build and ruined it show a huge crack in the (lack thereof) management/leadership. However, at the time, the botch was quickly forgotten, and Sting getting the title off Hogan was a huge payoff
@@SmithCommaBenjamin Sting ended up vacating the Title right after Starrcade '97. The story was clunky and under-delivered. The fact they had a near perfect build for a year and that is how they paid it off is why WCW is no longer a thing.
@theReelPhilLeotardo wicked original, Phil. You ever think of taking your act on the road? I think you might have something here. Calling other wrestling fans "marks" is literally something NOBODY else is doing on the internet. Incredible...
The Starrcade 1997 Main Event was one of the biggest disasters in wrestling history. How Bischoff can try to explain what happened as a lack of communication between the principles is just inexcusable... Hogan vs Sting was the biggest match in WCW's history. How could the producers not have had this match laid out perfectly, plain & simple, for everyone involved.... It should have went 8-10 minutes. Sting on the offensive all the way through. Stinger Splash. Scorpion Deathlock. Tap-Out. Sting conquers Hogan & the nWo.... Was such a simple concept. This started the doom of WCW. 16 months of booking down the F'n drain.
Starrcade 97's main event finish and the finger poke of doom were the lowest points of Bischoff era WCW booking. By far. Worse than the Yeti and the Dungeon of Doom, worse than the Glacier incident. Even with that first baffling creative botch, what's even more bizarre is how WCW miraculously managed to breathe new life into an already stale nWo with the Wolfpac/Hollywood split. The fans had so much goodwill towards the company that they gave them another chance, which is more than many promotion get after a major screwup like the Sting/Hogan finish. And even with that, they still managed to screw up in a major way again. I'm pretty sure that if those two events hadn't transpired, at the very least WCW would've lasted a couple more years than it did.
The rest of the PPV was garbage too except for Malenko vs. Guerrero and DDP winning the U.S. Title. Nash weaseled out of jobbing to the Giant. Raven vs. Benoit didn't happen. Bischoff wrestled Larry Zbyszko in a terrible match. The longest match of the night was Buff vs. Luger, another crapfest. The Macho Man wouldn't have even been on the card had Konnan not gotten injured. Scott Hall didn't wrestle. Bischoff thought that Sting vs. Hogan was enough and that the rest of the PPV didn't matter. On the other hand, WWE went all out in booking WeestleMania 17 in 2001instead of just settling for Austin vs. Rock.
@@richardbarth918 If he's in such a bad place, you don't build him up as the hero he was. Regardless, the FANS wanted Sting to win CLEAN and in DOMINANT FASHION. You give the fans what they want and paid their money for. If Sting had personal issues, which he has admitted to, find a way to take the belt off by some screwjob and let him take time off. That way, you keep him STRONG for when he comes back to get his revenge.
@@richardbarth918 Sting also said he was waiting on Hogan to do business and Hogan kept stalling. Hogan was not jobbing clean to Sting. It wasn't happening.
I'm still confused. Not with WHY he made the decision to do what they did...but what they were trying to achieve by doing it. What was their goal? What where they trying to achieve?
Conrad is absolutely brilliant in this interview. He shreds Bischoff. A ‘God damned tanning bed’ being the highlight. And Bischoff had nothing. The fool and Hogan killed WCW.
Another point...'What harm was done'. Going back to this I remember just how emotionally invested I was in this angle. I don't even think Eric would understand how much. Sting was basically invincible unless you dropped a net on him(couldn't really sleep that night as I recall). Then you go out there and do the match like that. Sting looked weak in that match. He looked like just another guy. Now maybe this whole 'his head wasn't in the game' means that they couldn't do a match where Sting is dominant because he wouldn't have made it look good. Either way, I lost emotional investment in the character even though he walked out with the belt.
Ironically, Bischoff would later say, "Liars use numbers." But that's what he effectively does in defending Starrcade '97. He'd point to the fact ratings didn't decline and 1998 was WCW's most profitable year as vindication of his choices. But people are funny. Just because people continue to buy your product doesn't necessarily mean they're satisfied with it, it just means there exists no alternative for that particular void in their life or they're just not willing to jump ship yet. I highly doubt anyone decided to quit watching WCW solely on the basis of Starrcade '97, but the idea that "no harm was done" is ludicrous, because it definitely undermined the credibility of the product. You can only swerve the audience so many times before people start to get exasperated. This is something Eric still doesn't get.
@@RightCenterBack321 You can also say that numbers would have been much higher if they didnt' fuck it up. But of course, we will never know that for sure.
@@Grayto Eric's whole narrative about WCW is that it didn't matter the quality of the product because WCW was screwed thanks to the purchase of Turner Broadcasting System by Time Warner. He can always use that as an "out" if he ever finds himself in an indefensible position regarding the quality of the product, but nobody at corporate told Bischoff to go with a screwjob ending. That was a decision the guys on the ground made.
I’ve listened to this podcast so many times and I still come to the conclusion that Hogan and Bischoff totally fucked Sting over. Yes, Sting wasn’t in his top shape and yes we know he was having personal issues but to ruin this entire match after the biggest build up in wrestling history and not letting Sting win clean was such bullshit. First of all, Sting didn’t look that out of shape. I watched his old matches in 96 and he isn’t that much bigger then he is here. And second when we watched him later on during 98 he got back into that shape pretty damn quickly... so this was just an excuse. And third, how the heck do you not check in with Sting over this entire time and not have normal meetings with your top superstar??? That’s just horrible management. So they just didn’t speak to Sting over the course of a year and half? And they never even bothered to do a few practices runs of this match with him and Hogan beforehand to ensure they got it right? What a bunch of bullshit. Every interview I’ve seen of Sting being asked about this match he says that a lot of politics were going on that day behind closed doors and he explained his frustration with the fact that they kept changing things on him... guaranteed that’s why he didn’t kick out of the bogus fast count. All WCW had to do was get this right and then let Sting destroy the NWO after one by one and WWE would have never existed again. Instead they let Hogan and his creative control destroy the greatest storyline in wrestling history and leave so many WCW fans still pissed about this to this day. And one last comment. Bischoff mentions how the character they built completely lost its luster as Sting walked out to the arena... is he on drugs? Stings Starrcade 97 was absolutely epic... wtf is he even talking about
Want to add one more comment. I re watched the battle royal and main event from Road Wild 98 and Goldberg is currently the champ defending his title in a battle royal behind surprise surprise Hollywood Hogan who of course yet again got the main event match with DDP, Bischoff and Jay Leno. What a joke. Not even the champ and Hogan still booked himself in the top match.... Hogan didn’t want to lose clean, he couldn’t deal with not being the champ, and couldn’t let Sting go through him and dismantle his precious NWO one by one like the story was supposed to go. He used whatever excuse he could about Sting that day to justify changing the match and it was his fault that Starrcade 97 went south and ultimately destroyed the company. Plain and simple
What's even more sad is that, even if Hogan had won the match, but did it with a fast count or cheating in some way, I could still see ways to salvage the angle. Fans had a lot of goodwill towards WCW even after this, right up until the fingerpoke of doom actually. The worst thing about this is that the ref didn't do the fast count, he did a normal count, which meant that Hogan won clean and just buried Sting. Incredibly anticlimactic after all the buildup. At least with a fast count or similar dirty victory they could set things up for a rematch on another ppv and have this rivalry go on for a while longer and still keep it hot.
I dont think Sting (old white face, dead inside Vigilante) shouldve had a tan anyway. And watching it LIVE at the time, I didnt notice anything wrong with Sting looking the part, winning the title anyway.
Eric said it wasn’t “the right time“ on several podcasts but over the years the narrative has changed with him. Hulk also said it wasn’t the right time. If there was a time for it to be right this was it.
14:07: "Yeah, you were there driving it in a f*cking ditch!"...………..I spit my beer while watching this the first time. Thanks, Conrad! Eric, Love you man, but SC'97 laid a huge turd. It was the pinnacle of the NWO angle and you had over a year to make the perfect card. Really no excuse.
They HAD the perfect card! Everybody forgets that they had Nash/Giant, Raven/Benoit and Dean/Rey. Nash and Raven refused to go and Dean mailed it in because his child was being born. They’d never admit it now but those guys were company men at the time. When Hogan wussed out of the finish that was going to make history they mailed it in.
Almost 25 years. I'm still mad about Starrcade. Defining letdown of my childhood. I knew instantly they were taking the belt back from Sting. Blatant Hulk Hogan 1-2-3. Eric asks "what harm was done?" but I definitely remember thinking the entire show had been a big letdown. We were expecting the WrestleMania 3 of WCW
The line “but you give it to him in February!- What magically his problems at home disappeared!? Or did you just go buy him a fucking tanning bed!?” Fucking gold.
Eric and Hogan both finally copped to this coming out of Hogan using his creative control to make the change because he was concerned that Eric didn’t have his future planned out following this show. So he used his control to create some form of controversy that kept him involved. In a way I respect Eric’s loyalty but after so many years it finally was confirmed that it truly was Hulk.
@@Kaneseb for one thing, they gave it away for free... at least they tried to. The Nitro rematch ran long and the lame finish didn't air til the next show. Typical WCW stuff.
Also, they had a ref bump. Nick Patrick runs in, Hogan rollsup Sting from behind, & the 1-2-3 , but, Patrick DOESNT DO A FAST COUNT.... AGAIN! 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
I know this shit happened 20+ years ago, but I am glad someone is holding EB accountable for screwing up this match. This was the biggest event in the 90's wrestling world. It HAS to work
Bischof proved at that time his limited managing and people skills. For a moment that important, you rehearse the storyline and match before. You make sure (days upfront) all important people are on the same level and up to the task. You don't just wait till the very last moment. He wasn't even aware of the physical AND the mental state of Sting. How ignorant can you be? Bischof rarely honestly blame Hogan for something and always find excuses on his behalf. But he has no problem to burn other wrestlers to the ground.
Classic WCW...Build was amazing, payoff was absolute garbage. Same happened with the Fingerpoke of Doom. Build wasn't as great for that, but the payoff was even worse.
Zach Johnson man it’s just too bad.... they had so many storylines built that were money and all they had to do was follow through on finishes that were easy to call and make but they never followed through with making the right call except for Goldberg beating Hogan, but they even managed to fuck that up by giving it away free on Monday nitro instead of making millions on Ppv from it
And I remember watchin this thinkin, "Why is Sting not gettin any offense?" Hogan basically kicked Sting's ass the whole match, then pinned him clean. So in Hogan's mind he actually beat Sting. Then he gets screwed by Bret. 😒 Yeah, doesn't seem like Hogan manipulated anything that night. C'mon Eric, even a blind man can see what went down.
I ordered this ppv as well, alot of ppvs I ordered in 97 cause wrestling was so hot. Hogan not wanting to put over both blade runner members is telling. Warrior "not ready" in 1990 and sting "not ready" in 1997. Hogan dominating the whole match until the screwy finish was bullshit, a heel yes, is supposed to control the match until the face makes his comeback near the end. Nick Patrick should of counted 1-23 that fast, Sting get pissed, throws Patrick out into the waiting arms of Bret who decks him, then beats the fuck out of hogan for 5 minutes and then 1-2-3 and new champion. Hogan cries on Monday, calls shenanigans on WCW. Demands a rematch at his leisure and then February comes along, an nWo member is set for a match with Sting. Hogan demands his rematch then, becomes a 3 way dance. Hogan and nWo member beat the fuck out of sting all match, finishes, chairs and everything to pin him, and sting won't stay down. The nWo start doing their run in bullshit and sting starts laying waste to them as hogan and other nWo member look at each other and nWo member falls for Hogan to get the 1-2-3. Nitro the next night sting starts talking, saying how he tried to cut the head off the snake but now he will start with the tail and now at the next ppv he starts with some nWo member....not the lower card guys but some of the top guys cause I know he can't start fighting vincent ffs. Giant, scott hall, kevin nash, macho man, Curt henning even. Those are ppvs for months right there.
Bischoff's answers, frankly, are a little confusing. He seems to contradict himself sometimes, but I don't believe he's purposely trying to mislead anyone here. And there is one thing that frustrates me about him: His continuous reaction to the notion of Hogan playing politics to keep his spot. He keeps asking why would he want to do that, since he's making the same amount of money regardless of what happens. I don't know if Bischoff is being deliberately obtuse here, but he seems to disregard the mentality that most guys, especially old-schoolers like Hogan, have about the business. Hogan not too long ago admitted in an interview (and it's on RUclips) that he did play politics to keep his spot because that's how you survived and thrived. He wanted to keep his spot at top, because that's how he could ensure that when contract-renegotiation time came back around, he would continue to get the deal he already had, if not more, and maintain his spot on the top of the roster. So, would he above maybe getting in Nick Patrick's ear and telling him to make a slow count, ensuring controversy over the finish? I don't think so. Maybe Bischoff is right and it was miscommunication, I don't know for sure. But to be so incredulous over the suggestion is a little much. Hogan has played the game very well through his career, so much so that I think he ended up working himself.
First off, did Bischoff and/or Hogan understand the “Crow” character from the movie? It’s a guy that was murdered who comes back to life to see his revenge. A dead guy is not going to have a tan!!! Did the Undertaker ever have a tan? Second, if Sting didn’t look emotionally right, why not have a talk with him and see what’s going on, then make a decision.
There's an obvious inconsistency here. Two contradictory arguments are effectively being run side by side. Argument number one: The Starrcade finish was botched and Patrick should have made a fast count but he didn't. Argument number two: Sting was going over clean but turned up without a tan (I've seen the footage and he looked tanned to me, just not orange like Hogan... and The Crow isn't meant to be tanned) and so the finish was changed i.e. not botched. Also, Bischoff is pretending throughout this segment that the "protect your spot" mentality that Hogan took to the extreme is something that he doesn't understand, despite the fact that is has been a common feature of wrestling for as long as anyone can remember. Instead, he pretends that the finish didn't matter to Hogan because he'd get paid the same regardless (because he had a fixed contract) but doesn't acknowledge that, if a wrestler is being moved aside in favor of someone else and the person being moved aside goes along with it, that person's value/power will decrease precipitously in a relatively short-time, negatively effecting that person's earning potential going forward viz-a-viz his next contract and the one after that... and the one after that, etc.
An overlooked part of this match was how Sting oversold like crazy. I feel like Sting knowing Hogan/Bischoff were going to screw him over was deliberately overselling.
According to Nick Patrick (who talked about this for the first time in 2017), there was tension between Sting and Hogan on the day of the match because Sting wanted a fast count, whereas Hogan wanted a slow one (go figure). Nick tried all day to talk to Bischoff to find out what to actually do, but he was hiding all night. None of this is hard to believe considering Bischoff and Hogan lie more than they tell the truth. Bischoff is particularly full of it in this interview -- amazing how he is still in denial about how badly he screwed this up. I think he actually believes his own lies at this point. A good example: using Sting "not being tan" as an excuse... What the hell? Next to Hogan (who if any darker he could have been in Harlem Heat), maybe; but Sting was NOT pale by any means that night. And with the crow gimmick, why would Sting be tan anyway, and why would be need to be enthusiastic? A stupid, petty, bullshit cop-out excuse by Eric the coward for screwing over Sting and WCW as a whole to save Hogan's precious ego.
That makes a bit of sense. So it is: 1) Sting is depressed, out of shape, not ready for the biggest win of his career 2) They panic and change the match last minute 3) Sting and Hogan don't agree on plan B 4) Red doesn't know what to do 5) Bishoff refuses to step in
So who convinced you that Steve was "not in the right place" and that "things needed to be changed?" Only one person. Hogan. Reality CREATED by Hogan, working Bischoff as he always did.
Yes, he does. Almost as bad as Bruce Prichard who clearly plays the I don't know or wasn't there card when it's something that could COMPLETELY black ball him from a future with the WWE. obviously he knew he had to tone back in certain areas and where is he now? Back in the wwe. And even more evasive with questions on this show. To me, these shows only work when the guy is being 100% honest because we can see through the BS.
I think he is much more openly transparent in recent years than here. He had openly stated himself that when this show started he was defensive until he began to trust Conrad. He isn’t perfect by any means but his approach to this subject in the recent bonus show with Nick Patrick he was much more conciliatory about mistakes. And he also heard from Nick that sting told him to fast count but hogan told him to slow count and that he didn’t get to talk with eric to verify what to do. So he did what Hogan told him to do and used a normal count. Also recently on an A&E about the NWO Eric finally came out and said that changing things was Hogan and that this was the first time he’d truly used his creative control. He spoke that obviously Hogan always had it and it was always in the back of your mind but that he hadn’t used it before or threatened he would. But I think one has to always consider that he probably never had to truly use it very often because if you know he has it how often are you gonna fight him to the point he uses it? If you know he is gonna get his way if he wants it then you’re naturally not going to consistently have him use it but may go along with things knowing about the clause. But both of them finally spoke up that Eric didn’t have a plan worked out for Hogan following the show so hogan changed things. So all the defense of Hogan here I get since they’re close but the reality is hogan is why this happened. I don’t think Eric does this on his own even if he wants to insist he would have. In an ironic way Eric had been taking a lot of shit about being inept and ruining this by sticking up for the change when the reality is likely this falls on Hogan. Even the change would’ve been fine if you don’t have Hogan ask for a nice and slow count. I think Eric has consistently ate shit about this for decades now instead of dumping it on Higan when even if he saw hogans point or even agreed this all does stem from Hogan
This is where Eric doesn’t think to the context of the character. Why would a character who was Surfer Sting with the colorful look, flat top blonde haircut A TAN, high five-ing the crowd…. Then he feels betrayed by everyone who thought he had aligned himself with the nWo and thus questioned his loyalty to WCW so he completely changes. He started wearing only black and white, long trench coat, grew out his hair long, acts like a loner, won’t speak, etc. He’s hurt, he feels betrayed. So he goes to a dark place and won’t associate with anyone. He hides out in the rafters. Why would s character like that go get a tan? And why does a tan matter anyways? The only skin really visible on his body when he wrestled was from his wrist to his upper arm. Wrestling tights and gloves covered the rest of his body. Eric wasn’t thinking
Hogan should've lost clean. Plain and simple.
Absolutely. Like Conrad said, if they knew before the match that "Sting's head wasn't in it" or whatever bullshit excuse, then why even let Sting win, botched as it may have been? They tried to have their cake (make Hogan seem like the superior wrestler) and eat it too (have Sting ultimately win the belt). Hogan is on the offensive for most of the match, and even given the normal count, Sting STILL doesn't kick out right after 3. But yet the slower-than-planned count was supposedly a miscommunication? It fits right in with the rest of the match, which is Hogan looking dominant...
George Salgado Hogan won clean and simple though
@@poopsyko yes he did. That was the problem of the whole thing.
Man didn't have a tan, Ho Kogan can't lose clean to some plain white jobber
@@j.3o21 Absolutely. No vanilla champions.
Sting not being tan actually makes sense. Why would The Crow version of Sting be tan when he's basically just lurking in the rafters and shadows...makes no sense for him to be tan. He's not surfer sting, a tan would make sense for that version of Sting.
I know, right? Amazing how this wasn't addressed.
Can't believe I never thought that either.....mind blown
I thought of the same thing I thought how Sting was during 1997 fits his character even sting have problems with his personal life there no reason not to give him the title clean why a Tan even matters
In other interviews before the podcast shot interview rennissance eric also mentioned he was out of shape and hadnt been working out. And arguably he was right. Still shouldnt have changed the ending and only used Brett after.the match ended
It would have looked pretty damn stupid to me if Sting came out with a tan.....this was a guy that was supposed to be hiding in the darkness and lightning this whole time, always dressed in a trenchcoat.....A FUCKING TAN?!? The look was supposed to be THE CROW! Brandon Lee didn't have a fuckin tan! Did anyone even tell Sting to go get a fucking tan?!? Why the fuck would Steve Borden be under the impression he should be TAN!?!?!?....Even if Sting WASN'T in the shape he could or should have been, it was part of the kayfabe the whole time that Sting may be rusty, so this was already a possible expectation to begin with, but most importantly, wrestling is a damn work! We all know Ric Flair would have still put on a hell of a match with Sting. We all know what the conclusion to the 16-month storyline SHOULD have been. Instead Hogan just squashed the guy, Bret and Sting looked like dorks. Hogan was the only one that looked good.
Sting still walked out with the belt. For him to not win clean is a colossal mistake and there is NO excuse for it.
This is the best segment in the history of 83 weeks.
It’s immense
Yea this is by far the best of the Conrad Podcasts. Awesome segment
I don't know...the DX Invasion argument was also epic
@@toddmullins7300 nah nwo formation
@@toddmullins7300 IT'S FUCKING DAYTIME!
Credit to Bischoff for showing up and taking his licks. BUT nothing he says explains the stunning ineptitude of this shit-show. This one event was simultaneously the highest, and the lowest point of WCW in one night.
How is Sting "not ready for this", or "not able to pull it off"?! He's a 12 year veteran at this point who was their World champion multiple times before this. You just invested a year and a half of primetime television, and millions of dollars into building this...one...moment. But suddenly, at the 11th hour, because Sting shows up with the equivalent of "ketchup on his shirt", all of that gets flushed?!?!?!? Well I just learned all I needed to know about how WCW ended up not existing less than 3 and a half years after this.
I know right he's just making excuse after excuse for why this main event failed
His basic gist of it is Sting was out of shape, didn't care, and didn't tan. And there was a "communications breakdown." Whatever that means.
I know this happened right around this time, but not sure if it happened at this exact moment, but Sting had lost his father. He was also going through marital issues, as road life for Sting was catching up to him. He reconciled with his wife around 1998, and became a born again Christian after that. Not making any excuses, but that was Sting's "mentality" back then. I know Sting touched on it with his book "Moment of Truth". No excuse though, Sting should have worked out, and got back into ring shape before that match. But I don't think he had the hunger for it, after that.
@@acewillingham he just didnt wanna go into Stings substance issues at that time. If he just said, Sting was a junkie, and he came into the arena that night and we felt we needed an out put into the finish, with the fast count.
@@kevingillman8062 Sure. He had been cheating on his wife for years, and developed a bit of a pain pill addiction too. This was what led up to his 6 month absence following Halloween Havoc of 1998. None of that justifies the ridiculousness of the way the Starrcade 97 match played out.
"You ruined our biggest PPV ever, see ya tomorrow" makes me laugh every time I hear it lol
Conrad is fucking hilarious when he gets going.
"YOU FUCKED THE FINISH OVER A TAN IS THIS REAL!?!?!?"
I die everytime I hear that lmfaooooooo
I come back once in a while to hear it. Lol
Lol here in '21 gigglin at the tan lines lmfao
@@chubbssstuff3101 same here fellas lmao. CM Punk on Friday has got me just absorbing anything and everything wrestling.
One of the Monday Night conversations we had in a our living room every week was how chunky Strong would get every few weeks
My first time hearing this. Its like a little gift after a shitty day.
7:30 "You fucked the finish over a tan?!!!! Is this real??!!"
Funniest shit ever
Can never get enough of Conrad freaking out at Eric, sh** is hilarious 🤣.
The tanning complaints are the most hilarious of all. Storyline-wise, hadn't Sting just spent fifteen months lurking in rafters with a broken heart? Yet Starrcade night rolls around and he's supposed to have the Surfer era body. 😂
@@azapro911i was looking for this response.
the funniest thing is that eric continues to calmly response to that
I hereby give you THE single best part of all 83 Weeks podcasts, this is the pinnacle. It works for me, brother.
The line “That doesn’t work for me brother” has crossed into my real life situations at work, with family i just throw it out there and people just can’t think of a comeback... I mean what can you say? I see how Hogan made it and stayed at the top using his leverage
I’m using that line everywhere now😂😂😂😂
That’s why God invented blackmail. To make that which doth not work for one’s brother, suddenly seem attractive in comparison.
@@rishi9098872744 Same. Works even better with the "Brother" at the end. Brilliant discovery Alonso. I'll never stop using it.
Ya got me brother
Fun fact: All the top draws played politics.
Even Sting himself said that he was disappointed that Hogan didn’t agree with the finish with him going over clean. Hogan really killed WCW lol.
Michael Haney hogan didn’t care about the business he just wanted the money fingerpoke of doom bash at the beach are great examples
To much creative control
Bishoff and Russo and later on Dixie where his enablers.
Hogan was a bitch
Hogan made WCW.
I'm listening to this interview for like the 20th time. I'll never be ceased to amazed at how willingly Eric Bischoff will defend bad choices.
Either he's convinced himself that he's not lying or he's a sociopath.
Thank you
Well Sting could have still went over on Hogan Later Down the Line & if Sting wasn’t With it & was out of it from substance issues or w/e, or was not dedicated to the company, (then u gotta stop pushing tht guy & instead build someone else to replace them Etc) ... then I could understand why a company wouldn’t want to send them to the moon .......... & With All That said I think where the Ball was Really Dropped was when They never had The NWO Wolfpac Face Hollywood Black & White , & have The Wolfpac go over with Sting taking out Hulk, & then Sting could have battled with Goldberg w/ Wolfpac Help (but still get a clean win at a PPV as he starts to fall out with the Wolfpac) ... then have Sting go to War with the Wolfpac (& could also have Goldberg Go to War with the NWO & then the factions consolidate into one & Sting + Goldberg both have Storylines facing the One Solid NWO Stable........They could have Done sooo much, but what they needed to have happen, was to have the NWO vs WolfPac with Sting going over on Hogan Clean as the other members of the Stable battle eachother Etc........The Wolfpac had to go over on Hulk & the Hollywood Black & White.......& it would have been better to have NASH & Hall together Etc...... Then Hall & Nash could have had a Split & Both go solo but then have Nash Ally with Sting & Hall Allies with Goldberg, it works so well Cuz NASH & Hall can cover the mic side of the Angle Etc & you have 4 guys who are super over , & having them In The Main (Title/Mainevent) Angle together, where they each would only get more popular, it would be like Rock & Austin (facing eachother & only making eachother that much more Over Etc)
I like Bischoff bt I'm sorry his explanation for why sting didn't go over clean Dat night was clearly bullshit. If he wasn't ready how come no fan in America noticed that he was off. Like wat does that even really mean?? "He wasn't ready"? Wtf I wouldn't be shocked if hogan was the one that gave bischoff that excuse of an idea
"I don't think he's ready brother" - Hulk "Creative Control" Hogan
If Sting showed up in the best shape of his life, it wouldn’t have mattered. Hogan didn’t want to put Sting over and Hogan had the final say, case closed...
lambertearnhardt68 totally agree with you,Eric Bischoff let the Inmates run the asylum and look
What happened,The finger poke of Doom is a fucking joke,Sting got screwed after Starcade fact,Hogan never wanted to put any one over but the end of the day if he did then he wouldn’t be in the top spot would he so I can see his point in a way,bischoff is fucking a lapdog
That doesn’t work for me, brother!
*rubs Fu Manchu*
Right...the only reason he put over ppl in wwe is because he knew Vince was in charge and wouldn't just let Hogan do as he pleased. Ric is considered by some just as good and others way better than Hogan and Flair would put over a broom if he had to. I can never understand why Hogan thought a loss would hurt him somehow. It's like if the Predator got away from Arnold and Arnold saying that cant happen ppl wont believe I wont kill everything. It's a story Hogan drop the ego......brother lol
@@horrorfan4-life689 Hogan jobbed to the Giant for the WCW title. Goldberg for the WCW title. Luger for the WCW title. Sting for the WCW title. Flair for the WCW title. Just to do a favor to help out his indy-fed in Canada he jobbed to Jacques Rougeau............but your right. Hogan NEEEEEEVVER jobbed to anyone in WCW?
Here's a fun fact. Hogan jobbed more titles away in WCW than Austin did in the WWF.
D2K Prime how does hogan taste brother? It’s 2020 and we are sucking off a racist, misogynistic piece of garbage. I couldn’t imagine being a baby boomer holding onto the last strands of your oiled up hero.
It didn't matter if Sting wasn't tan or didn't seem super excited about it. You spent a year and a half building to it. Do the match, Sting win clean, and screw him over the next night if you're that worried about it.
There's just no defending this match unless he was Jeff Hardy wasted, which he clearly wasn't.
Exactly! I came here to say exactly this! There's no excuse whatsoever for the way this match played out on TV. Bischoff is just unable to face the fact that this single moment revealed just how much he was flying by the seat of his pants during WCW's hot streak, and exposed his weaknesses as the leader of the company. The bottom line is there absolutely was a guy who showed up unprepared to the MCI Center that night, but his name was Eric Bischoff.
This was the jump the shark moment for WCW in my eyes. After this debacle it was all downhill from there.
they then spent the next year building wolfpack vs hollywood with the payoff being the finger poke of doom. being a wcw fan was like an abusive relationship
@@CSick27 Straight up truth. They might have been able to survive a botched payoff to one major build, but clearly not 2 in a row.
I said the same thing about Lesnar/Reigns at Mania.
Conrad the voice of every WCW fan throughout.. loved hearing someone put Bischoff in his place.
Finally. Bischoff is so full of shit. "We altered the finish because sting didn't look in the game." What sense does that make? It's a planned finish.
every wcw fan is an idiot
agreed
LITERALLY!!! Especially with the pent up RAAAGGGEEEE
Well, he did marry into the flair family lol
Conrad's "It's still real to me damn it!!!" moment...
Jesus Christ. This is gold. This interview is gold. The animosity Conrad has for this match is gold.
Then I come here and CM Punk is in the comments? Definitely a Too Sweet moment for me at work at 3:40am.
Nothing wrong with it.
He was emotionally invested
Ya no shit lol
“YOU FUCKED THE FINISH OVER A TAN!!!!” 🤣🤣🤣
Btw. Sting had the right tan for his gimmick...
Conrad: “that doesn’t work for me brother.”
Eric : “Well live with it.”
Too bad Eric could never have the balls to tell Hogan that.
Eric relationship with Hogan was the same with Vince and HBK
Hogan made his company money. Why would he?
@@ArtLeeThreeAnd Sting didn't?
@@ArtLeeThreehe's also the same guy who did shit like this because losing clean didn't work for him 😂😂😂
Eric had to give hogan creative control or he would not have ever came back to wrestling and joined wcw he had no interest at the time or at least played off that he didn’t so he could not
Conrad Thomson’s reaction in this is every fan at that time’s reaction to the hottest angle in the history of that company.
This angle was cool for a few months, than it dragged onnnnnnnnn. I was so glad it ended. Brooding Crow Sting to me was boring.
Exactly. It was good to hear him say it to Bischoff. Maybe he can tell off Hogan too some day.
@YTCensorsMe Poop exactly. This angle was so boring after a while. Being a crow fan, what was Sting going to do? Murder them? This angle was dull.
yea im not picking either side here but man i was a huge mark at this time in wrestling history and NOBODY and i mean NOBODY except maybe the columnist in the the pwi type magazines batted an eye a this flub up lol, nobody was like OOOOOOOOOOOOOO i bet hogan made that happen.....wtf they wasn't a fast count.....there was a bit of confusion that is it and the show went on and we moved onto the next ppv. Now i will agree that if this happened today in the wwe universe the way it is now where everything is out in the open and internet is more widely accessible with podcasts and all this and that then yes this would have been the reaction to it but man when it really happened nobody gave a crap, nobody gave it a second thought.
@YTCensorsMe Poop yea at this point we hadn't even gotten to mark madden as color commentator yet kissing russon's butt every night lol :) sting vs. hogan was just a small bump in the road of wcw's demise but it was in no way the epicenter of what killed wcw not by a long shot. Conrad's reaction may be the reaction of "marks" now adays but when it actually happened it just seemed like business as usual.
Also made Bret Hart look stupid .. his WCW run never got started
Agreed... Buried the man before he even got to live.
spikeannoyed LoL he punched out Nick Patrick for nothing!it made him look like a bully 😂😂😂😂if anything Bret Screwed Hogan hahahaha
Bret screwed himself! Regardless of whatever shitty angle he was in he had the opportunity to make it good-great because of his exceptional skill in the ring but instead he was just half-assing it and was a shell of his former self after everything that went down at 1997’s Survivor Series in Montreal. Let’s face it, his mic skills really were awful but because of his in ring skills he was a top level guy but he seemed as if he didn’t care or have the drive anymore and could only be the Hitman if he was in/held that top spot.
socalisurfer13 That is the biggest load of shit I’ve ever read.
Everyone who worked with Bret in WCW would tell you that you’re dead ass wrong, because every ONE of them that worked with him came out looking better for; because he was still the best worker in the business.
He elevated Booker, and Benoit to main event status after they worked with him.
It had ZERO to do with him phoning anything in, and everything to do with WCW’s horrid booking starting around the time he came in. They had the hottest baby face in the business, and the squandered him, and kept flipping him back and forth with no real plan to do anything with him, most likely because that’s what fucking Hogan wanted.
Then, when he finally got a chance to do something, after Bischoff left, Goldberg was a reckless idiot, and ended his career.
rudy2fat No he didn’t. Bret was there for two and a half years. From late 97 until well into 2000 (he wrestled with a career ending series of concussions for months).
Bret was still there, wrestling Benoit, just before Benoit left. They wrestled in the Mayhem tournament, and prior to that the tribute match for Owen.
Bret took Booker from mostly just a rag team guy in 98, to a legit singles star. Booker winning the US title was due in large part because he had some great matches with Bret.
Benoit won the title not long after those two matches with Bret, because being in the ring with Bret (who had just won the title himself) showed he was in that class.
6:38 "It was miscommunication, it wasn't Hulk working a gimmick, it wasn't trying to take it, it wasn't any of it." Nick Patrick has since come out and said that Hulk Hogan told him to slow count the finish and Bischoff knew it and hid in the office all day when Patrick would try to ask him what to do.
Did you buy him a tanning bed? The greatest question ever on a Podcast!
Holy shit, I LMFAO when Conrad said that & went f'in mental, I'm amazed Bischoff stayed on the line to carry on the conversation/argument.
Wasn't THAT great
Ticked off Conrad is hilarious
Best? The guy who doesnt understand that in a month a lot can change mentally for people.
Yeah that was a great question, If you are a moron.
Hearing Eric laugh immediately after that was great, too...
Eric was always afraid to tell Hogan no to anything. Hogan always got what he wanted and Eric won't ever admit it but he screwed over Sting for the sake of doing whatever Hogan wanted. Hogan didn't want to lose clean so this was the result we got, which would be the beginning of the end of WCW. Shout out to Conrad for calling Eric out on his bs!
Exactly he is a lier and he knows it
Even if he did say no Hogan has an ego the size of the US plus he had creative control and would have told Eric to fuck off anyway.WCW was fun and I enjoyed watching it while it lasted but sooner or later letting the inmates run the asylum is bound to come crashing down.
@@peteandrepete528 the whole fuckin match was 1 sided with Hogan dominating.
Hogan basically made wrestling what it is today he deserved the ability to have control over certain things. Honestly listening to Eric in this I think makes a lot of sense.
Hogan filled the seats .. like it or not
Huge credit to both guys on taking each other's fire and making this a good promo. The sad reality is: the fans were shorted of the best build of a match in wrestling history regardless of why.
"Putting anyone over doesn't work for the Hulkster brother..."
Hogan sucks
Except Goldberg, Undertaker, The Rock, Lesnar, all the younger guys in WWE, jacques rougeau etc. A clean win wouldn’t make sense
lmao......
@Bold One It would have violated Bret's non-compete. He could show up on WCW television but he couldn't wrestle for three months, which is why they brought him in all weird like they did. It also would have put a damper on what they'd been building between Sting and the nWo for over a year. Then again, it already had a damper on it because of the booking cluster it was, so...
@@TheNeonParadox Bret wrestled Flair in January of 98. I don't think he had a 90 day wait, as Vince got him to see if the old offer was still available.
“Yeah I was home popping pimples and you where there driving it into a fucking ditch” 😂😂😂💀
I give Eric a lot of props for allowing Conrad to grill him like this and still working with him 5 years later
We all know Hogan absolutely played the "That doesnt work for me brother" card that night and to play it off as it was Stings issue is bullshit, it was a typical Hogan issue as it has been in SEVERAL other instances
So F###ING WHAT !!!
AT THE END OF THE DAY
IT'S BUSINESS !!!!!!!
Hogan would be an idiot to do other wise.
You M0R0NS are too emotional.
7:31
14:07
16:04
Kevin Bacon's Belly Flop lmao
Lololol
"you ruined our biggest PPV ever???.. see you tommorow" 😂
Conrad is just cutting the longest promo on Bischoff here. Absolutely brutal. Amazing interview.
16:44 Bischoff tells Conrad that he's not gonna bullshit him
00:00 to 16:43 Bischoff bullshitting Conrad
😂
I have a hard time buying the narrative that Sting 'wasn't ready'. This isn't The Ultimate Warrior on his way up the ladder, this is an industry veteran, one of the most accomplished and professional performers in the industry at that time. He's not Goldberg. He has already been "the guy" and been the face of WCW for years. He, along with Ric Flair, put that company on the map.
He spends a year or so descending from the rafters with a 'solemn' look on his face, because that was the gimmick, and you want to have him do a ring walk entrance with his classic, surfer charsima? Drop him from the rafters if the 'Crow' gimmick isn't compatible with an entertaining entrance. Maybe have the wherewithal to think that through BEFORE you get there... Also, about the tan and the physique, BS. Sting looked fine. He didn't look emaciated. He looked like Sting. There aren't a lot of wrestlers in the history of the industry with a physique comparable to Hogan. And Sting hadn't had been cartoonishly jacked in YEARS. Go back and look at his physique from '95-'96 and tell me that he looked like he markedly different than he did in '97-'98. No matter what Sting was going through, he always had the reputation of being a consummate professional. To not trust him after so much effort and so many times where he electrified the building during that run...it's unfathomable.
Tomas Nichols agree with you completely. I recently re watched the match and Stings arms were just as big as Hogan’s. You can see them toe to toe right in the beginning of the match. He hadnt wrestled for a year so of course he’ll have some ring rust but no reason to not let him win clean. Also if you noticed over the next few months from superbrawl, uncensored, spring stampede, slamborree and through his wolfpac days sting ends up actually getting even bigger. Despite he’s personal issues, he always put on an awesome show for the fans. They should have just done right by him and let him beat Hogan clean and then officially go through the NWO one by one after that night defending his title.
@@sharkgrayc7z06corvette9 I think they booked it wrong. Sting and Hogan is like Hogan and Flair. They need a prop/gimmick. Also, how is there not a storyline stipulation to deal with the inevitable interference of the nWo? I think the best possible match, especially given Sting's ring rust and that Hogan has never been a technician in any way, shape, or form, would have been a cage match. Hogan is Hogan, so if he doesn't want to win clean, if you need heat going forward, okay, cool. Have each guy look strong, fight to a stalemate in the cage, have the inevitable chaos of a WCW/nWo brawl outside the cage, and then have Bret Hart, your new hottest heel, come up through the ring and deck Hogan with Sting's bat. Sting wins. Cool match, both guys look strong, you get a feud with Hogan and possibly the hottest wrestler in the business at that time (thanks to the Montreal Screwjob), and THEN you have Sting running the rest of the nWo gauntlet while Hogan feuds with Hart. Obviously, Hogan would go over on Hart, who was always cool with that, and then a Sting/Hogan rematch later in the year yields a clean win for Sting. That's about when Hogan started drawing the curtain on his WCW run... Meanwhile you have Goldberg coming up, and I think Goldberg/Sting (while Bill was still hot) maybe turns Sting heel better than Hogan ever did, but if not you basically get a great match either way as Sting and Goldberg always had great chemistry.
Meanwhile, Bret Hart gets a meaningful role/feud right out the gate, and I think it's the kind of thing that, even with a loss, it's still momentum. Have him carry the midcard scene with the US strap and either book him with Sting for the world title or wait on Goldberg. I loved Sting in the Wolfpac, but objectively it made no sense.
Tomas Nichols yea I think this would have been better. The thing is if you watch how Sting came out and acted during the match he actually played the crow character perfectly. His entrance was epic and throughout the match he kind of just stands there looking at Hogan and acts like who cares if you hit me I’m just gonna take you out at some point (which could have easily happened if they just let him win clean). If you recall a year prior when he came down from the crowd to confront the Steiners. Rick Steiner beats him up a few times and knocks him down only for Sting to dodge him once, scorpion deathdrop and that was it. Same thing could have happened here with Hogan. It was about being in his best shape ever, it was the fact that this character was basically a ghost who was inevitably gonna save wcw regardless.
I remember watching live as a kid being confused as to why the next night on nitro sting had to have a rematch against hogan after he won at starrcade only to have the belt stripped on thunder. I remember being so let down after watching this buildup for a year. It could have been a lot better if Sting still won clean and then fully took out each NWO member one by one. That said, I do think Sting still had some classic moment with the belt afterwards. Just the fact that he would walk out w the belt on his shoulders for a few months after and not say a word was epic. He looked badass. I was pissed seeing how he lost it to savage at spring stampede with yet again another interference by Nash only for Sting to join Nash and Savage in the wolfpac a month later. I mean he was still pretty cool in the wolfpac but didn’t really make sense for him to join them after they both screwed him out of the belt. That was never really addressed at all. WCW could have tried to do right by him by letting Sting beat Goldberg on Nitro. I have to say to this day that was still one of the best matches on nitro until Hogan had to interfere. Sting had Goldberg beat and would have been awesome to end the streak that night and see him come out with the belt Thursday’s night on nitro in his wolfpac paint. He could have lost it after or even that night in thunder but still would have been cool to see.
And one more thing to add. If it’s really true that management had no idea what was going on with Sting until the day of starrcade then shame on them. They invested so much time and energy in this year long build up that it really makes no sense how they weren’t in good contact with him. Like since this stuff is obviously scripted and this was supposed to be the biggest match in wrestling history wouldn’t you think that Bischoff would have Hogan and Sting in the ring practicing for this a month or so prior to this main event? They could have literally planned out the entire match step by step and Sting would have gotten some practice in to get some of the rust off. Or maybe take it even a step further and have a meeting w Sting and Hogan as well as other NWO members and wcw guys to have it all planned out and say guys as you know we’ve been planning this for a year. At starrcade we are going to finalize the biggest story line in wrestling history. We need everyone onboard to make this happen and after this we are going to be the biggest pro wrestling business on the planet. Done.
This was like doing a broadway play and getting your lines an hour before you went on stage while the writer made more edits to them. The biggest event ever in wcw history to take out wwe for good and they didn’t even do a dry run of the match lol. That’s just crazy makes no sense.
@@sharkgrayc7z06corvette9 One other thing I'll add is that Sting, in any shape, is a better wrestler than Hogan, especially at that point but he was always more athletic than Hogan. Sting's size and startling athleticism made things such as the Stinger Splash and his dropkick into high spots. Who at 6'2" 250lbs could jump out of the building like that?!? Whatever Sting looked like (he looked fine) his raw athleticism was the draw with him. Not the powerhouse of Goldberg or the physique of Hogan, but the agility and leaping ability, along with an ability to gorilla press dudes his own size, Sting was as impressive an athlete as wrestling has ever seen, frankly. Along with the dropkicks and splashes in that match, Sting also had the failed splash against the rail spot that exactly had its designed effect of "ooohhh!! Ah...." on the crowd
We all forget that, ultimately, the crowd was into it the whole match. Sting and Hogan had everyone in the building in the palm of their hands. The emotional reactions were everything the match scripted them to be. It was only after the match that people started turning against it, and I think Meltzer led that charge, frankly.
Tomas Nichols I wonder if anyone has seen photos of sting without his paint during this time around starrcade???
Conrad is spot on. I watched Nitro and WCW a lot afterwards but this broke my heart. Eric knows he screwed up that’s why they gave Goldberg clean on Nitro as a makeup. Thanks Conrad you said what every fan wants to say.
Goldberg was anything but clean. Hogan was distracted by no less than three men when Goldberg took him down from behind.
I honestly think Stings look that night was Iconic!! The walkout, the blank stare, the emptyness just all fit the mold of the gimmick!! It may not be what E wanted to see but to the fans and everyone who knows whats up knows damn well that night Sting having that long of a layover basically debuting a new gimmick was spot on...under animated as he should have been, blank empty looking is exactly how it should have been played!
he didn't look ready. Hogan looked ten times better.
He came the closet to The Brandon Lee Crow and you exactly right the cold stare the look of the pain of the inocent and wrong doing Sting nailed it spot on
Agreed, Steve was going through personal problems, true, but wasn’t Sting? Wasn’t that the whole point of the “Crow” Sting? His presentation was perfect. Yes, he wore a bodysuit type outfit, but he looked perfectly fine as far as being in shape.
I was watching and sting seemed fine to me...just behind the scenes politics (hogan wining like a bitch) ruining good material as usual
Agree, at the end of the day you’re looking at his face and reading his eyes not his body.
Conrad went hard and told the truth. Eric is Hogans boy.
He told the truth? Meaning he read what Dave Meltzer said and that’s what he believes and that’s what you believe and so that’s the “truth”… You smarks are sad. People who were literally there making the decisions at the time have taken the time to sit down and tell you idiot smarks what happened and to a T every single time it doesn’t agree with what you already believe (based on “Meltzer”) they are lying and Conrads telling the truth. You and him need to get the fuck over yourselves.
@@cineMADvocate exactly conrad is annoying n arrogant dickhead he questions ppl who actually worked for the wrestling industry n continuously interrupts his guest while talking
@@cineMADvocate You may have a couple points but god damn Eric is eating shit sandwiches for this segment lol
This is one of the greatest exchanges of all time. I think its pretty badass that EB lets him tear into him. These podcasts are so great because I remember back in the day watching all these shows and arguing about if the angles we were watching were works or shoots with my cousins. Brings back good memories. I think the only thing we ever all agreed on what Sid's leg snapping in half was a shoot lol.
Regardless of what shape Sting was in... He has to go over clean, period.... Screw him over the follow night on Nitro... Get Sting well, and blow it off in a stipulation match at the next GAB.... Somehow Eric over booked the most important finish in the company’s history, that’s a fact and it’s not in dispute.
When Sting gets better and wins the championship, let him and Bret put on classics, it's that simple. Oh, and have Ric Flair vs Bret Hart, any sensible person would book that.
The same reason WWF never put the belt on Scott Hall or Jake Roberts. Sting at the time seemed unreliable and like maybe he was unraveling. I can understand them being apprehensive. Combine that with Hogan's ego. And then you get what happened. Who knew at the time Sting would bounce back, have some more great matches in WCW? Then go on to have a great run with TNA? He was struggling at the time.
I love it how Conrad goes from 0-10 at 16:07. Classic
More like 0-1,000,000
That caught me off guard but LOL!!!
Bischoff’s “are you done?” Is classic. That’s the type of response you give your significant other after they go off on a long winded bitch fest.
@@turnupthesun81 and that's why I ultimately don't think he "lost" this argument
Eric knows damn well Hulk changed the finish. Lol.Good Job Conrad on saying what we all wanted to say for 20 years.
100%
The finish was confusing and made no sense. Everybody but Hogan looked bad in this.
When trying to figure out a mystery, you look at who benefitted the most, and as you say, it was Hogan brother
I disagree man. This made Hogan look bad as well, knowing the back story to this was going to come out at some point.
@@SuperWarking At this point he'd been getting away with it for about fifteen years. I doubt Hulk Hogan in 1997 was afraid there'd one day be social media and video sharing platforms like RUclips where his fellow wrestlers would expose him in front of a massive audience over and over again.
But that's exactly what did happen. Why? Because he pulled this kinda shit all the time over the course of his career.
@@Jayce_Alexander That is something of someone of Hogan's magnitude (Actor/Wrestler/Reality show host/etc) should have known with how rapidly society was turning more and more digital, especially in the 1990s, his past, and those who have been around him off screen would call him out first chance they get, and if they can remain unknown, even better.
So please do not take this personally, but I have a hard time that someone such as Hogan, with his popularity, the thought never came to mind his pettiness would likely come out at some point, so why be petty in the first place?
@@SuperWarking He never thought that he would be caught in a sex tape scandal, a racial scandal, and other scandals as well.
In the 90's, it wasn't digital. VHS tapes ruled, computers didn't come with DVD drives, Win 95 was the system of choice and video clips was Super VGA tops. Dial-up internet was the norm and downloading a picture could take some time. Pentium i586 at 200 Mhz was king. Sorry but no, while we was becoming "digital", the age where everyone was on social media was over a decade away. The most "social" was forums, IRC, and ICQ messenger.
Jayce is right. No one had a clue video streaming sites would exist, or Twitter would exist, or Snapchat etc. Also, Hogan had creative control for years, he came into WCW with that in his contract, if he thought it would make him look bad, he wasn't going to do it.
"Call that a tan Brother?!" Eric I can't drop the belt clean to this jobber....
I heard Sting stopped going to the tan salon after Luger won the belt in August. He was pretty upset with Lex stealing his thunder
Lol I cant lose to someone without a tan!
Lmaooo
Lmao are y'all serious?
No no. I was replying to John wigmores comment.
Conrad shoots straight here, Hogan has always manipulated things backstage to ensure he doesn't lose clean very often.
While Hulk's payday won't change much for these matches, non-clean finishes keeps his character strong and still at the top of the game ling-term.
Whether its Undertaker being dangerous when he beat Hulk for title, or Bret Hart not being big enough to beat him at Summerslam or Sting not appearing ready to beat him, its always these little jibes that hurt or question the other rival guy.
7:34 Conrad going crazy and Eric’s shocked reaction 🤣🤣
I love it when Conrad loses it 😂
It’s magnificent
@@QueLindoFilms conrad is legit lol. eric is legit for keeping it cool
He doesn't challenge any of his co-hosts nearly enough.
it honestly comes off kind of fake af to me. Like he's trying to work a shoot knowing its fake. Like Cornette, he knows he can't back up any of his anger or attitude but its red meat for his fans.
@@Sammo212 - Nothing is fake about Cornette. That's real, legitimate salt, from someone that knows the business inside and out. Just because it hurts your feelers, doesn't make him wrong.
I've listened to this segment several times.
I still can't believe they blew the finish to one of the greatest storyline ever in wrestling.
"beat his pale ass"- haha. That was hilarious.
Hogan knew if Sting whent over clean the TORCH would have been passed to Sting. BTW you could hear the change in Eric's voice when the BS started flying out of his mouth. it is also interesting how Eric said that Sting had an energy about him like 'i know your going to screw me so let's get it over with" I think Sting know Terry would refuse to pass the TORCH. I think this was the first Domino in the companies fate.
On Sting's WWE DVD "Into the Light", they touch on this moment and Sting says it was weird that day, because there was a lot of politics going on that day. Sting is a pro and he is a smart guy - he probably felt something was off.
Even if Bischoff and Hogan called him into the office to sort of debate his condition, etc., no surprise if he acted stand-offish, or absent minded. He understood anything they say is just bullshit trying the sole purpose of which was so they can somehow fuck with the finish in Hogan's favor. It's actually commendable he didn't lose his cool.
I love how he's so focused on Sting not having a tan when we are talking about a character that was suppose to be hanging out in the rafters in the dark. How and why would Sting have a tan if he had been hanging out in the dark for 15 months.
I know ! That makes no sense in theory if you think about it!!! 🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️
BINGO
The tan is a stupid argument, but Sting looking unconnected looked awesome to me since he was The Crow. Eric is so wrong in this argument, he knows he completely f’ed up WCW in this single event. Hogan obviously got to him. He just can’t accept it. Sting was the Crow, he started to live the gimmick. As fans we treasure Flair for doing the same thing. Bischoff F’ed up, that’s the end of it. Eric just stop, you have always been a mark for Hogan. Let me quote you, “Hulk Hogan is my hero.” Come on pal...just stop it
Conrad normally when you go off and act irrational, I roll my eyes. But here you nailed it. Eric will never admit, he became one of the boys, and didn’t want to let his “boys” down. Notice how he always refers to Hogan as Hulk and Sting as Steve. Come on Eric, you mark! Just put Sting over with the Deathlock, no fans would have known the difference. Moronic! I agree Conrad, I hate to say it. But I agree.
Brett coming in, with the way it happened, made him look like an idiot. It didnt get him over.
Bret never got over in WCW
Conrad is great... he doesn't back down and so glad I discovered his podcasts. Totally takes me back to my childhood
There's a lot of things that if you take Eric at face value here, you can sit there and go, "Okay, maybe that's plausible." But Conrad makes two great points:
1. If Sting "wasn't ready" why put him over at all? Why not have Hogan go over? Then you just have Hogan come out and cut a promo on Nitro the next night: "You couldn't get the job done, brother!" and then build towards Hogan/Sting 2 somehow. Done!
2. If Sting "wasn't ready" in December, why would all of that magically disappear and he's ready in February? Mentally or physically, that's a really short turnaround time to "be ready".
Also, how the fuck is making Bret Hart a referee any way to get him over? He's BRET FUCKING HART! PUT HIM IN THE RING AND LET HIM WRESTLE!
Bret had a no-compete clause for about a month or so after he left the WWF. WCW weren’t going to be using him for a bit as a wrestler.
Bret was probably the best example of a company wasting an employee's talent on nonsense ever!!!
@@bobby.m136 The truly nonsensical thing about this is that Bret had no reason whatsoever to take over as ref. Ref did a normal count, it wasn't a fast count. Hogan went over clean but for some reason everybody acted like he cheated.
Hell, It'd be better if they just had Bret stare down the winner of the match as the ppv went off the air. Fans would be in droves tuning in to Nitro next week if they'd actually done that.
@@theazureknight9399 yup....and everyone just keeps blaming the next guy....I tend to believe sting somewhat....bischoff didn't have his shit together....and hogan probably had too much say in things....who the f knows though....all I know is they botched the most anticipated match in wrestling history.
There's no Sting/Hogan 2 if Sting jobs @ Starrcade. Sting might as well have retired if they had jobbed him that night.
Eric you screwed Sting over which screwed over WCW too.
Lol what screwed over wcw was the AOL Time Warner deal that's it
they screwed Goldberg too and didn't give him a rematch for the world title
Brian S. You think if wcw was making profit and killing in ratings , time warner wouldn’t have thought twice ??? It was a shit product , it just made sense
There are guys in this thread, who actually believe this nonsense about situational storylines, compromising WCW. Time Warner was introduced to Turner broadcasting in my opinion as a mole to upend WCW... as a favor to Vince. AOL just finished the job... more oversight... more rules... less flexibility. That is what brought down WCW... time warner probably presented the merger as something that would be hugely beneficial to Ted and he took the deal. The plan all along was to diminish WCW, from the inside out.
@@brians.2392 that was late
I was at this event live and can tell you that finish left us utterly confused because you could see even from the nosebleeds (where me and my friends sat at the then MCI Center) that the count was not fast. We walked out during the big "celebration" because it didn't make sense and we were disappointed in yet another crappy WCW PPV. Eric is 100% wrong about the fan reaction.
My theory is that Hogan went up to the ref behind Eric's back and asked him to do a normal count. Since Hogan was pretty much bulletproof and friends with all the other top guys, all of the mess got swept under the rug as "bad communication".
Conrad always says Something To Wrestle w/ Prichard is the closest we'll ever get to Vince McMahons perspective through the years. There is no doubt 83 Weeks is full of stories told from the pro Hogan perspective.
"Sting looks small, brother. It won't be believable for him to pin me clean."
Believe it or not, that's why Hogan's egotistical ass never put Bret over in WWF.
Hulk Hogan, the man who beat Andre the Giant with a scoop slam....
And he doesn't have my sweet dark orange hot dog color tan Brother...Brother...Brother!
That’s exactly what happened 😂
@@TRJ2241987 Yeah and imagine if André had done a shoot on Hogan at WM III, something that I think Vince and Hogan had serious concerns about.
It's simple:
Eric Bischoff valued his friendship with Hogan more than the success of WCW.
Conrad knee caps Bischoff here. Conrad could've buried him further but took his foot off the gas so he wouldn't embarrass Eric. There is NO EXCUSE for botching that finish and that was truly the beginning of the end for WCW. A match like that with some of the best build in the history of the business and it ended in a whimper. WCW never truly found their footing again.
The fact they took the finish to a match that had over a year to build and ruined it show a huge crack in the (lack thereof) management/leadership. However, at the time, the botch was quickly forgotten, and Sting getting the title off Hogan was a huge payoff
@@SmithCommaBenjamin Sting ended up vacating the Title right after Starrcade '97. The story was clunky and under-delivered. The fact they had a near perfect build for a year and that is how they paid it off is why WCW is no longer a thing.
@@MScal0316 Only a mark thinks companies go out of business because of bad booking... if that was the case, WWE would have gone under decades ago.
@theReelPhilLeotardo wicked original, Phil. You ever think of taking your act on the road? I think you might have something here. Calling other wrestling fans "marks" is literally something NOBODY else is doing on the internet. Incredible...
@theReelPhilLeotardo that is 1000% on ME. I am sorry for the misunderstanding lol now I deserve to be called a mark 😂
The Starrcade 1997 Main Event was one of the biggest disasters in wrestling history. How Bischoff can try to explain what happened as a lack of communication between the principles is just inexcusable... Hogan vs Sting was the biggest match in WCW's history. How could the producers not have had this match laid out perfectly, plain & simple, for everyone involved.... It should have went 8-10 minutes. Sting on the offensive all the way through. Stinger Splash. Scorpion Deathlock. Tap-Out. Sting conquers Hogan & the nWo.... Was such a simple concept. This started the doom of WCW. 16 months of booking down the F'n drain.
Eric basically just loves defending hogan
Starrcade 97's main event finish and the finger poke of doom were the lowest points of Bischoff era WCW booking. By far. Worse than the Yeti and the Dungeon of Doom, worse than the Glacier incident.
Even with that first baffling creative botch, what's even more bizarre is how WCW miraculously managed to breathe new life into an already stale nWo with the Wolfpac/Hollywood split. The fans had so much goodwill towards the company that they gave them another chance, which is more than many promotion get after a major screwup like the Sting/Hogan finish.
And even with that, they still managed to screw up in a major way again. I'm pretty sure that if those two events hadn't transpired, at the very least WCW would've lasted a couple more years than it did.
The rest of the PPV was garbage too except for Malenko vs. Guerrero and DDP winning the U.S. Title. Nash weaseled out of jobbing to the Giant. Raven vs. Benoit didn't happen. Bischoff wrestled Larry Zbyszko in a terrible match. The longest match of the night was Buff vs. Luger, another crapfest. The Macho Man wouldn't have even been on the card had Konnan not gotten injured. Scott Hall didn't wrestle. Bischoff thought that Sting vs. Hogan was enough and that the rest of the PPV didn't matter. On the other hand, WWE went all out in booking WeestleMania 17 in 2001instead of just settling for Austin vs. Rock.
"But you fucking give it to him in February!"
If Sting is playing The Crow, doesn’t it make more sense for him NOT to have a tan? Good job Conrad.
Sting has said he was not right. He was in a very bad place. Sting literally backs up bishoff. Not sure why this is still debates.
@@richardbarth918 If he's in such a bad place, you don't build him up as the hero he was. Regardless, the FANS wanted Sting to win CLEAN and in DOMINANT FASHION. You give the fans what they want and paid their money for.
If Sting had personal issues, which he has admitted to, find a way to take the belt off by some screwjob and let him take time off. That way, you keep him STRONG for when he comes back to get his revenge.
@@richardbarth918 Sting also said he was waiting on Hogan to do business and Hogan kept stalling. Hogan was not jobbing clean to Sting. It wasn't happening.
@@jerry85g7 well that was kinda a given anytime working with hogan
I'm still confused. Not with WHY he made the decision to do what they did...but what they were trying to achieve by doing it. What was their goal? What where they trying to achieve?
Conrad is absolutely brilliant in this interview. He shreds Bischoff. A ‘God damned tanning bed’ being the highlight. And Bischoff had nothing. The fool and Hogan killed WCW.
Echo that
I think he is misreading the situation. Bishoff doesn't want to expose Sting's personal problems. And Conrad things this is an excuse.
there’s more to it. eric made wcw what it was, how could they kill something that wasn’t competing with wwe? eric is responsible for the attitude era
Another point...'What harm was done'. Going back to this I remember just how emotionally invested I was in this angle. I don't even think Eric would understand how much. Sting was basically invincible unless you dropped a net on him(couldn't really sleep that night as I recall). Then you go out there and do the match like that. Sting looked weak in that match. He looked like just another guy. Now maybe this whole 'his head wasn't in the game' means that they couldn't do a match where Sting is dominant because he wouldn't have made it look good. Either way, I lost emotional investment in the character even though he walked out with the belt.
Ironically, Bischoff would later say, "Liars use numbers." But that's what he effectively does in defending Starrcade '97. He'd point to the fact ratings didn't decline and 1998 was WCW's most profitable year as vindication of his choices. But people are funny. Just because people continue to buy your product doesn't necessarily mean they're satisfied with it, it just means there exists no alternative for that particular void in their life or they're just not willing to jump ship yet. I highly doubt anyone decided to quit watching WCW solely on the basis of Starrcade '97, but the idea that "no harm was done" is ludicrous, because it definitely undermined the credibility of the product. You can only swerve the audience so many times before people start to get exasperated. This is something Eric still doesn't get.
@@RightCenterBack321 You can also say that numbers would have been much higher if they didnt' fuck it up. But of course, we will never know that for sure.
@@Grayto Eric's whole narrative about WCW is that it didn't matter the quality of the product because WCW was screwed thanks to the purchase of Turner Broadcasting System by Time Warner. He can always use that as an "out" if he ever finds himself in an indefensible position regarding the quality of the product, but nobody at corporate told Bischoff to go with a screwjob ending. That was a decision the guys on the ground made.
I’ve listened to this podcast so many times and I still come to the conclusion that Hogan and Bischoff totally fucked Sting over. Yes, Sting wasn’t in his top shape and yes we know he was having personal issues but to ruin this entire match after the biggest build up in wrestling history and not letting Sting win clean was such bullshit. First of all, Sting didn’t look that out of shape. I watched his old matches in 96 and he isn’t that much bigger then he is here. And second when we watched him later on during 98 he got back into that shape pretty damn quickly... so this was just an excuse. And third, how the heck do you not check in with Sting over this entire time and not have normal meetings with your top superstar??? That’s just horrible management. So they just didn’t speak to Sting over the course of a year and half? And they never even bothered to do a few practices runs of this match with him and Hogan beforehand to ensure they got it right? What a bunch of bullshit. Every interview I’ve seen of Sting being asked about this match he says that a lot of politics were going on that day behind closed doors and he explained his frustration with the fact that they kept changing things on him... guaranteed that’s why he didn’t kick out of the bogus fast count. All WCW had to do was get this right and then let Sting destroy the NWO after one by one and WWE would have never existed again. Instead they let Hogan and his creative control destroy the greatest storyline in wrestling history and leave so many WCW fans still pissed about this to this day. And one last comment. Bischoff mentions how the character they built completely lost its luster as Sting walked out to the arena... is he on drugs? Stings Starrcade 97 was absolutely epic... wtf is he even talking about
Want to add one more comment. I re watched the battle royal and main event from Road Wild 98 and Goldberg is currently the champ defending his title in a battle royal behind surprise surprise Hollywood Hogan who of course yet again got the main event match with DDP, Bischoff and Jay Leno. What a joke. Not even the champ and Hogan still booked himself in the top match....
Hogan didn’t want to lose clean, he couldn’t deal with not being the champ, and couldn’t let Sting go through him and dismantle his precious NWO one by one like the story was supposed to go. He used whatever excuse he could about Sting that day to justify changing the match and it was his fault that Starrcade 97 went south and ultimately destroyed the company. Plain and simple
What's even more sad is that, even if Hogan had won the match, but did it with a fast count or cheating in some way, I could still see ways to salvage the angle. Fans had a lot of goodwill towards WCW even after this, right up until the fingerpoke of doom actually.
The worst thing about this is that the ref didn't do the fast count, he did a normal count, which meant that Hogan won clean and just buried Sting. Incredibly anticlimactic after all the buildup. At least with a fast count or similar dirty victory they could set things up for a rematch on another ppv and have this rivalry go on for a while longer and still keep it hot.
I dont think Sting (old white face, dead inside Vigilante) shouldve had a tan anyway. And watching it LIVE at the time, I didnt notice anything wrong with Sting looking the part, winning the title anyway.
Because it was egomaniac Hogan who thought of that first and he worked Bischoff
Eric said it wasn’t “the right time“ on several podcasts but over the years the narrative has changed with him. Hulk also said it wasn’t the right time. If there was a time for it to be right this was it.
14:07: "Yeah, you were there driving it in a f*cking ditch!"...………..I spit my beer while watching this the first time. Thanks, Conrad! Eric, Love you man, but SC'97 laid a huge turd. It was the pinnacle of the NWO angle and you had over a year to make the perfect card. Really no excuse.
They HAD the perfect card! Everybody forgets that they had Nash/Giant, Raven/Benoit and Dean/Rey. Nash and Raven refused to go and Dean mailed it in because his child was being born. They’d never admit it now but those guys were company men at the time. When Hogan wussed out of the finish that was going to make history they mailed it in.
@@60BloodyChamp60 16:04 .........."But you f*cking give it to him in February!" This also almost made me pee my pants.
I can't stop replaying that bit 😂😂 Conrad out here saying what the rest of us are/were thinking.... Love it. Keep doing the Lord's work, C 😀
Almost 25 years. I'm still mad about Starrcade. Defining letdown of my childhood. I knew instantly they were taking the belt back from Sting. Blatant Hulk Hogan 1-2-3. Eric asks "what harm was done?" but I definitely remember thinking the entire show had been a big letdown. We were expecting the WrestleMania 3 of WCW
The line “but you give it to him in February!-
What magically his problems at home disappeared!? Or did you just go buy him a fucking tanning bed!?”
Fucking gold.
I was not prepared for how confrontational this would end up being, and I was impressed with how Eric handled it. VERY entertaining
Cause he knows it's bullshit , he knows Hogan political bullshit still cringes me Eric always defends Hogan till this day
Eric and Hogan both finally copped to this coming out of Hogan using his creative control to make the change because he was concerned that Eric didn’t have his future planned out following this show. So he used his control to create some form of controversy that kept him involved. In a way I respect Eric’s loyalty but after so many years it finally was confirmed that it truly was Hulk.
@@Matt-cr4vvWhen was this confirmed?
“We had to adjust to get the outcome we wanted”
Well if that was the outcome you wanted then Jesus Christ!!! smh
The next night on Nitro, there was a Hogan Sting World Title rematch, and they messed that up too.
How did they mess it up?
@@Kaneseb for one thing, they gave it away for free...
at least they tried to.
The Nitro rematch ran long and the lame finish didn't air til the next show. Typical WCW stuff.
Also, they had a ref bump. Nick Patrick runs in, Hogan rollsup Sting from behind, & the 1-2-3 , but, Patrick DOESNT DO A FAST COUNT.... AGAIN! 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
It’s unfathomable how much they screwed the pooch on this. Just unbelievable
I know this shit happened 20+ years ago, but I am glad someone is holding EB accountable for screwing up this match. This was the biggest event in the 90's wrestling world. It HAS to work
I love it when Conrad gets mad yelling lol
THIS is the podcast were Conrad earned my respect, and my subscription. He said EXACTLY what I had been thinking for over 20 years. 🙌
Same! I became a fan of them both because of these clips!
Extremely simple answer here. Hogan's ego and EB not having the balls to shut him down. "Doesn't work for me brother"
Bischof proved at that time his limited managing and people skills. For a moment that important, you rehearse the storyline and match before. You make sure (days upfront) all important people are on the same level and up to the task. You don't just wait till the very last moment.
He wasn't even aware of the physical AND the mental state of Sting. How ignorant can you be?
Bischof rarely honestly blame Hogan for something and always find excuses on his behalf. But he has no problem to burn other wrestlers to the ground.
yeah it's so bizarre, i can't fathom it
Omg this interview is absolute gold 😂
Watching this after hearing Nick Patrick come out and confirm that he was told to slow count makes Bischoffs lying that much more comical 🤣
This was super entertaining, great job Conrad!
Conrad will be dead soon he's so fat
Josh J Trump is twice as fat and old and he’s fine, so is Conrad.
They also half assed the card. There was no Kevin Nash and chunks of the roster was sitting in the crowd.
This is why I love Conrad, he’s not the typical mark fan, he actually engages the subject.
Classic WCW...Build was amazing, payoff was absolute garbage. Same happened with the Fingerpoke of Doom. Build wasn't as great for that, but the payoff was even worse.
Zach Johnson man it’s just too bad.... they had so many storylines built that were money and all they had to do was follow through on finishes that were easy to call and make but they never followed through with making the right call except for Goldberg beating Hogan, but they even managed to fuck that up by giving it away free on Monday nitro instead of making millions on Ppv from it
And I remember watchin this thinkin, "Why is Sting not gettin any offense?" Hogan basically kicked Sting's ass the whole match, then pinned him clean. So in Hogan's mind he actually beat Sting. Then he gets screwed by Bret. 😒 Yeah, doesn't seem like Hogan manipulated anything that night. C'mon Eric, even a blind man can see what went down.
And Bischoff being such a Hogan sycophant is basically trying cover for Hogan even now
Hogan won fair and square sting had to cheat to win the match
I ordered this ppv as well, alot of ppvs I ordered in 97 cause wrestling was so hot. Hogan not wanting to put over both blade runner members is telling. Warrior "not ready" in 1990 and sting "not ready" in 1997. Hogan dominating the whole match until the screwy finish was bullshit, a heel yes, is supposed to control the match until the face makes his comeback near the end. Nick Patrick should of counted 1-23 that fast, Sting get pissed, throws Patrick out into the waiting arms of Bret who decks him, then beats the fuck out of hogan for 5 minutes and then 1-2-3 and new champion. Hogan cries on Monday, calls shenanigans on WCW. Demands a rematch at his leisure and then February comes along, an nWo member is set for a match with Sting. Hogan demands his rematch then, becomes a 3 way dance. Hogan and nWo member beat the fuck out of sting all match, finishes, chairs and everything to pin him, and sting won't stay down. The nWo start doing their run in bullshit and sting starts laying waste to them as hogan and other nWo member look at each other and nWo member falls for Hogan to get the 1-2-3. Nitro the next night sting starts talking, saying how he tried to cut the head off the snake but now he will start with the tail and now at the next ppv he starts with some nWo member....not the lower card guys but some of the top guys cause I know he can't start fighting vincent ffs. Giant, scott hall, kevin nash, macho man, Curt henning even. Those are ppvs for months right there.
But Eric…Sting was coming off that way on that day because…Y’ALL WERE STILL DEBATING THE FINISH THE DAY OF!!!!
Bischoff's answers, frankly, are a little confusing. He seems to contradict himself sometimes, but I don't believe he's purposely trying to mislead anyone here. And there is one thing that frustrates me about him: His continuous reaction to the notion of Hogan playing politics to keep his spot. He keeps asking why would he want to do that, since he's making the same amount of money regardless of what happens.
I don't know if Bischoff is being deliberately obtuse here, but he seems to disregard the mentality that most guys, especially old-schoolers like Hogan, have about the business. Hogan not too long ago admitted in an interview (and it's on RUclips) that he did play politics to keep his spot because that's how you survived and thrived. He wanted to keep his spot at top, because that's how he could ensure that when contract-renegotiation time came back around, he would continue to get the deal he already had, if not more, and maintain his spot on the top of the roster.
So, would he above maybe getting in Nick Patrick's ear and telling him to make a slow count, ensuring controversy over the finish? I don't think so. Maybe Bischoff is right and it was miscommunication, I don't know for sure. But to be so incredulous over the suggestion is a little much. Hogan has played the game very well through his career, so much so that I think he ended up working himself.
"If his god damn tanning bed bulbs are blown, beat his pale ass!"
LMFAO!!? Conrad is comedy gold!!!
First off, did Bischoff and/or Hogan understand the “Crow” character from the movie? It’s a guy that was murdered who comes back to life to see his revenge. A dead guy is not going to have a tan!!! Did the Undertaker ever have a tan? Second, if Sting didn’t look emotionally right, why not have a talk with him and see what’s going on, then make a decision.
why would sting need a tan when he wears paint lol
and he lives in the fucking rafters and hasn't seen the sun in months?
@@raynwolfsbane2084 frr 🤣
There's an obvious inconsistency here. Two contradictory arguments are effectively being run side by side.
Argument number one: The Starrcade finish was botched and Patrick should have made a fast count but he didn't.
Argument number two: Sting was going over clean but turned up without a tan (I've seen the footage and he looked tanned to me, just not orange like Hogan... and The Crow isn't meant to be tanned) and so the finish was changed i.e. not botched.
Also, Bischoff is pretending throughout this segment that the "protect your spot" mentality that Hogan took to the extreme is something that he doesn't understand, despite the fact that is has been a common feature of wrestling for as long as anyone can remember.
Instead, he pretends that the finish didn't matter to Hogan because he'd get paid the same regardless (because he had a fixed contract) but doesn't acknowledge that, if a wrestler is being moved aside in favor of someone else and the person being moved aside goes along with it, that person's value/power will decrease precipitously in a relatively short-time, negatively effecting that person's earning potential going forward viz-a-viz his next contract and the one after that... and the one after that, etc.
He was saying that it was changed but the change also got botched.
Didn't Hogan earn commissions on merch and ppv buys and all that? If he passes the torch then he will lose out on a lot from that stuff.
An overlooked part of this match was how Sting oversold like crazy. I feel like Sting knowing Hogan/Bischoff were going to screw him over was deliberately overselling.
Why would sting the crow the man in the rafters in darkness for a year........ HAVE A F*CKING TAN 😂🤣
Exactly
Pyroman / THAT’S when you found out?!?! Lol
According to Nick Patrick (who talked about this for the first time in 2017), there was tension between Sting and Hogan on the day of the match because Sting wanted a fast count, whereas Hogan wanted a slow one (go figure). Nick tried all day to talk to Bischoff to find out what to actually do, but he was hiding all night.
None of this is hard to believe considering Bischoff and Hogan lie more than they tell the truth. Bischoff is particularly full of it in this interview -- amazing how he is still in denial about how badly he screwed this up. I think he actually believes his own lies at this point. A good example: using Sting "not being tan" as an excuse... What the hell? Next to Hogan (who if any darker he could have been in Harlem Heat), maybe; but Sting was NOT pale by any means that night. And with the crow gimmick, why would Sting be tan anyway, and why would be need to be enthusiastic? A stupid, petty, bullshit cop-out excuse by Eric the coward for screwing over Sting and WCW as a whole to save Hogan's precious ego.
That makes a bit of sense. So it is:
1) Sting is depressed, out of shape, not ready for the biggest win of his career
2) They panic and change the match last minute
3) Sting and Hogan don't agree on plan B
4) Red doesn't know what to do
5) Bishoff refuses to step in
“YOU FUCKED THE FINISH OVER A TAN?!”
So who convinced you that Steve was "not in the right place" and that "things needed to be changed?" Only one person. Hogan. Reality CREATED by Hogan, working Bischoff as he always did.
You moron . Even sting said that in a 2004 shoot intervew . Not Hogan .
@@Aizenborgman no. Sting admitted he wasn’t in the right place back then. What does that matter for the decision back then?
Eric is a Master at dodging questions. He has a very selective memory at most times.
Yes, he does. Almost as bad as Bruce Prichard who clearly plays the I don't know or wasn't there card when it's something that could COMPLETELY black ball him from a future with the WWE. obviously he knew he had to tone back in certain areas and where is he now? Back in the wwe. And even more evasive with questions on this show. To me, these shows only work when the guy is being 100% honest because we can see through the BS.
@@nickvogas4918 Tell me more about your inside wrestling knowledge, and how you received it.
@AdoreYouInAshXI I don't recall actually.
I think he is much more openly transparent in recent years than here. He had openly stated himself that when this show started he was defensive until he began to trust Conrad. He isn’t perfect by any means but his approach to this subject in the recent bonus show with Nick Patrick he was much more conciliatory about mistakes. And he also heard from Nick that sting told him to fast count but hogan told him to slow count and that he didn’t get to talk with eric to verify what to do. So he did what Hogan told him to do and used a normal count. Also recently on an A&E about the NWO Eric finally came out and said that changing things was Hogan and that this was the first time he’d truly used his creative control. He spoke that obviously Hogan always had it and it was always in the back of your mind but that he hadn’t used it before or threatened he would.
But I think one has to always consider that he probably never had to truly use it very often because if you know he has it how often are you gonna fight him to the point he uses it? If you know he is gonna get his way if he wants it then you’re naturally not going to consistently have him use it but may go along with things knowing about the clause. But both of them finally spoke up that Eric didn’t have a plan worked out for Hogan following the show so hogan changed things. So all the defense of Hogan here I get since they’re close but the reality is hogan is why this happened. I don’t think Eric does this on his own even if he wants to insist he would have. In an ironic way Eric had been taking a lot of shit about being inept and ruining this by sticking up for the change when the reality is likely this falls on Hogan. Even the change would’ve been fine if you don’t have Hogan ask for a nice and slow count. I think Eric has consistently ate shit about this for decades now instead of dumping it on Higan when even if he saw hogans point or even agreed this all does stem from Hogan
i want to know what UNPREPARED means specifically? i have seen alot of unprepared looking matches in wcw so i dont get it
To be the man, you must be tan.
lol props to conrad here. calling out Eric on his shit. As a WCW fan growing up this was both hilarious and depressing to listen to.
This is where Eric doesn’t think to the context of the character. Why would a character who was Surfer Sting with the colorful look, flat top blonde haircut A TAN, high five-ing the crowd…. Then he feels betrayed by everyone who thought he had aligned himself with the nWo and thus questioned his loyalty to WCW so he completely changes. He started wearing only black and white, long trench coat, grew out his hair long, acts like a loner, won’t speak, etc. He’s hurt, he feels betrayed. So he goes to a dark place and won’t associate with anyone. He hides out in the rafters. Why would s character like that go get a tan? And why does a tan matter anyways? The only skin really visible on his body when he wrestled was from his wrist to his upper arm. Wrestling tights and gloves covered the rest of his body. Eric wasn’t thinking
This is the most intense podcast of 83 weeks wow 🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟