What a crock of shit. It was all Hogan playing the creative control card. Easiest match to book ever - have Sting come out and pummel Hogan, then have Hogan do something nefarious to gain control in the middle, then Sting makes a comeback, splash, scorpion deathlock, tapout. Exactly what the fans expected and in this case they would have been thrilled to get it.
BTW, even if Sting was paranoid about getting f-d over, Sting was right. The ref slow-counted the fast-count and ruined the entire match, the pay-per-view, the angle, the fan's payoff, Bret Hart's debut, and Sting's push. All in 3 seconds. Sting was right, you f'd him.
@@derekazyan9942 If Nick Patrick had the fast count communicated to him before the match, Mr. Azyan, then obviously it'd be his fault. I can't see how there could've been miscommunication since he was an active part of the match as the referee, sir
That's why there was in essence a make-up match subsequently speaking, sir. It was to more or less fix the screw-up that'd occurred in the initial Starrcade '97 Sting / Hulkster match
@@michaelvaughn8864 Nick Patrick has since said that Hogan told him to slow count the pin and when he went to Bischoff to see what to do, Bischoff hid in his office.
Regardless of how Sting appeared to be, they should have had him win clean and deal with everything afterwards. Keep him in the rafters and mysterious, turn heel and walk out with the nWo who have turned on Hogan, etc. What they chose was the worst thing they could have done. The story had been built for a year and a half. The fans needed Sting to win. WCW HAD to give the fans that finish and then go from there.
Agreed, but aside from Shawn Michaels, I can’t think of anyone that has ever been crowned the top guy and had this much baggage at the same time. Your champ not only has to pull off being the face of the company but needs to be reliable.
He was reliable because he want off TV going forward this is Bischoff trying to save Hogan his ass buddy bc he didn’t want to lose being the champ at that time. Hogan is an awesome performer but he is a shit person to his peers.
@@gboni66 get the fuck out of here. Michaels never in his life was as over as sting was in 97, period. Sting was the most over wrestler in the fucking world In 97. More over than anyone, more over than Austin in 97.
@@gboni66there wasn't anything bigger than the nwo storyline in 97, and sting was the most over person in that fucking angle, and that's not debatable, that's a fact.
Good point, Mr. Shaffer. The late Brandon Lee's character in The Crow, Eric Draven, had a white painted face with black lines to affect a pale appearance. Henceforth, no tan necessary
Because you still dont want him to be pasty white! You can still see Sting’s arms and chest! Not only was he pasty white, but he was so small due to lack of working out. Also, i forget what video, but CONRAD is talking about all the things that make Hogan great, and guess what one of the things he mentioned! THE BIG TAN BROTHER! And he wasnt being sarcastic!
And also. Sting’s character was (as Scott Hall said) supposed to be a “dark” character - so if Sting was in a “dark” place in his life - IT WOULD MAKE EVEN MORE SENSE!
Yeah that's silly. That's like me going on an Artic adventure and expecting to see grizzly bears and all i see is polar bears. I like Eric, but what he saying doesn't connect.
*I just went back and watched this match after listening to Eric's explanation and Sting looked fine. Eric is full of shit. He knew what the right thing to do was but didn't want to upset his buddy Hogan.*
Kuji Chagulia my eng is poor . yes it dose cuz you said eric didnt want to upest his buddy hogan so it dose ^^ hogan didnt have a problem losing to sting and he lost 9 times to sting ^^
sting definitely was smaller. and he started looking sloppy during his early wolfpac days, probably due to his marital problems at the time. that can kill a workout regimen.
You'll never convince me that Hogan didn't use his creative control and pressure on Bischoff to destroy this finish. Hogan didn't want to lose clean, plain and simple. "tHaT dOeSn'T wOrK fOr Me BrOtHeR." This was the beginning of the end for WCW. The rest of this is just Eric Bischoff nonsense.
may have been in a sense. Like Warrior. He also knew sting would be a flop as champ----- and he was. A major fucking flop. Whether you like it or not, he was right. Also try and remember when sting has lost a match clean, ever. Hogan wasn't the only guy who didn't want to lose. And there's many more who lost less than hogan.
@@hw5091 As if Sting was a flop as champ 😂 don't confused "badly booked and terrible wasted" with actual flopping. Sting was the most over character in the entire industry right then. Eric had zero idea how to book actual wrestling, just how to entertain with storylines and controversy.
When do you think the fast count angle was thought of originally? Cos Bret Hart obviously still thought that was the angle on the night. Otherwise why did he still come out if the finish was changed to a Hogan win with a clean count ? I’m so confused
Eric's wrong. Sting has indeed spoken on the private issues he was experiencing during this time of his life. According to Sting, he'd fallen into a rut of inactivity filling his days with painkillers, Somas, and drinking because his marriage had become miserable for him. The time he'd spent on the road with the boys earlier in his wrestling career hadn't just driven a wedge between he and his wife, it'd changed him intrinsically. It had made him a different person entirely. Back home, he felt like the only way to make his marriage work was to make his marriage a "work"-- to masquerade as the husband she wanted to see in him. As Sting himself will admit, he's not that good of an actor. Thus, he quickly began feeling incredibly guilty about this masquerade, and turned to the same substances at home he relied upon while out on the road. What made it all worse was the way he had been eager to get off the road in order to put down the drugs & alcohol while he recharged at home. Once he realized that line of thinking was just a lie he'd been telling himself, he really felt demoralized. Sting hasn't gone into a tremendous amount of detail over this particular part of the story as he feels it's not his story to tell, but relations within his own nuclear family (his parents & siblings) was seemingly worsening by the week with him off the road and back in the picture. His biological family had fractured to the point of no longer speaking to one another because no one cared about anyone else but themselves. He was especially wracked with guilt over the relationship he'd allowed to deteriorate with one of his older brothers. He'd gotten into a very intense dispute & physical altercation with this particular brother after it was revealed this brother didn't just have an affairm, but that he also had a separate secret second family he was keeping hidden away, as well as this brother having become a criminal & a drug addict as well. Sting felt he'd lost all credibility as a man because he couldn't avoid the fact he'd essentially become the same type of person he'd hated his brother for becoming-- a womanizing scoundrel & a lying drug user devoting too much time & energy into keeping his darkest secrets hidden away. Sting is a very private, very reserved guy in real life also who doesn't like to speak in much detail on these things. He only does it in the confines of his faith as he's so famously known for having become a Christian during the 2000s, despite being raised an atheist his entire life. He doesn't like recounting this particular stage of his life as he believes it serves no purpose beyond reopening old scars that took a lot of time and work to force to heal. It's only in his Christian advocacy efforts where you learn about the real Steve Borden. His lack of motivation and preparation at Starcade '97 really wasn't a case of Sting expecting Hogan & the WCW to screw him and deny him the title bout at the last minute the way Eric speculates here. Rather, Starcade '97 came at a point where his career wasn't the same priority it once had been. Furthermore, he also felt conflicted mentally over committing himself to wrestling again as it was his wrestling career he now blamed for implanting him all the things he now hated about himself. The "Crow era" of Sting will remain an immortal gimmick for fans because it coincided perfectly with the stage of his life where Sting had basically become that character. He genuinely felt isolated and indifferent to the outside world altogether, thus it was a very believable performance he was giving.
Long post but these are my thoughts! The Sting v Hogan feud was one of the best told stories in wrestling history. Stings silence began after Fall Brawl 1996 (September) He wouldn't speak again till January 8th 1998 (I'm not including that mamacita BS after the Starrcade match. WCW were sitting on a goldmine! All they had to do at Starrcade was deliver! This bullshit that Sting wasn't tanned, WTF? His whole character was the crow, a dark mysterious man who had become a lone wolf, so it only makes sense for him to have "given up" and be as white as a ghost! He wasn't fat, or any bullshit like that, so the tanned gym shit is exactly that, shit! The Starrcade match should've been a cage match, a cage with a roof so there was no way for any outside interference, with Sting destroying Hogan and winning clean. For the entire time Sting dropped from the rafters for the 1st time at Uncensored 1997, he would single handedly take out the entire nWo. 10-15 men vs one, and he would take them all out, certainly never be laid out. Yet after all that, at Starrcade he was beat down, taken to the mat by Hogan. The man went from unstoppable to looking like a goof. What a way to ruin the pay-off for a match 15 months in the making. So, back to Eric Bischoff's notion of Sting rocked up unprepared looking like he hadn't hit a gym in months, what? We're supposed to believe that Bischoff & Hogan didn't notice this on the Nitro go-home show the week of Starrcade? Or ANY of the numerous times they would interact with him at the Nitro's in 97? BS! Just like Hogan v Warrior at Halloween Havoc was all Hogan's fault (as he himself has admitted too) so is Starrcade. I couldn't get enough of the Sting v nWo deal back then, and when Starrcade ended I turned to my best friend & said "what a let down" HECK, Hogan didn't even allow Sting to win clean at SuperBrawl 98, Savage hit Hogan was hit in the head with a spray can! Total mismanagement. Just look at Starrcade 98! No Sting, no Hogan! Starrcade 98 should've seen a Hogan v Goldberg rematch.
You said it all man, Eric was a bro and "That don't work for me brother" Hogan would rather fuck up the biggest finish in wrestling history for selfish reasons and Eric is trying to defend it.
@Matthew Caligari I never saw this match and wasn't familiar with this story (I was abroad during this time with no access to television) please give me a run down of the story and where it all went wrong. Thank you!
I didn't look at Sting when he came out and think that he was smaller than normal. I thought he came to the ring and he looked like he was ticked off and ready to tear Hogan apart. The entrance with all of the scorpions put on the crowd with the lights was really cool. The only bad thing apart of this match was the so called "fast count" and then having Bret restart the match. We didn't need that. Hogan should have done the right thing and lose cleanly.
I was at this show, and the entire card was definitely lackluster. It was great to see Sting win, but hid entrance was meh, and the ending..oh boy! Best thing was watching the limos pull into the garage at the arena (now the Verizon Center). I was 10 feet from Booker T! He looked me in the eye!! LOL
The craziest thing about this is that Eric Bischoff admits that, yes, Hulk Hogan played a very big role in creative. Why he did it is immaterial and is a distraction from the fact that Hogan was a kingmaker and often made himself king.
After Starcade when sting did not get the belt that was the beginning of the end for me watching WCW all that time invested that was probably one of the poorest decisions in wrestling but I guess it was a good thing because that’s when the attitude era started And if you were a wrestling fan during the attitude era you know how great it was
@@leestens5539 fuck that, lol. He still didn't go over clean on Hogan, there was a bunch of bullshit that led up to the w. Hogan needed to tap clean to the scorpion deathlock at starccade, period.
To this day everybody misses the fact that Sting DID kick out of that failed slow count. He does it with the shoulder that's away from Patrick. But he still does it. Why? Because he didn't trust them, and he was right.
Well I mean let’s also acknowledge that whether he trusted them or not when you’re under the impression that the finish is supposed to be a fast count you’re going to notice that the count isn’t going fast. So he probably kicked out to save the match because it would’ve allowed them to pivot past the count and point out that he’d kicked out and not been pinned. But they were so focused on a fast count that didn’t happen that it didn’t matter. And that isn’t anything against them for not noticing it and pivoting becsuse doing that on a split second would be super hard to do.
We saw little shawn Michaels and little bret hart on WWF beating Sid and undertakee, who were far mode physically impressive. This botch isnt excused by sting not being bulked up enough
Fucking excellent story telling! Something I've noticed, during this time Sting was obviously going through a difficult time. The respect others show by not giving details is fantastic!
Two things that make perfect sense: Sting being delighted about Hogan coming in, Jake Roberts said when he worked with Sting he felt Sting was sick of his position of always being the big face to take on the newest heel coming in, so it makes perfect sense that he was happy about Hogan coming in Sting feeling they were going to screw him in the match with Hogan so he stopped caring about making the effort, have you ever woke up after a night on the booze and thought "Thank God I never sent that text, what the hell was I thinking?" Alcohol makes you paranoid, so imagine if you're drunk ALL the time? That's where Sting was at that point But ultimately the full blame lies with Nick Patrick, he truly only had one job and he couldn't have made a bigger mess of it with his regular count, what was required of him really wasn't rocket science
In so many words, Eric seems to be saying Sting was depressed, cynical and disinterested. Why that was the case, is obviously being hidden…but their reaction to that attitude seems to be to construct the match in a way that robbed Sting of his glory, because he wasn’t up to their standard. They basically ruined the ending of the movie to spite Sting for not being enthusiastic…they delivered the bare minimum they needed to and did it in a way that revealed their scorn for Sting.
Exactly. They let the backstage influence the on-screen product too much here. They needed to be all-in for Starrcade '97, regardless of the backstage. If Sting is still a problem, find a way to take the belt off of him after the fact, but you're trying to build "Starrcade" up more as an event and the event itself had to go off without a hitch. As it turned out, there were multiple hitches on the show unfortunately.
I find it interesting how Bischoff admits Stings lack of enthusiasm may have stemmed from his belief that Hogan was going to fuck him over, but then says their decision to play the match out like they did had nothing to do with Hogan wanting to fuck Sting over. And when you watch the match it couldn't be more clear that Hogan wanted to fuck Sting over, and Stings concerns became a reality.
It isn't just that Sting didn't go over clean, it's that Hogan sucked up all the offense in the match and made Sting look like...just a guy. Hogan had been running scared from Sting for a year and a half. He should have been cowering in his boots and used every underhanded tactic in the book to try and go over. Add to this that Nick Patrick "forgot" to fast count and the fact that it screws over Bret Hart's debut with the company and you have a botched finish, made all the worse by the hamfisted title vacating in subsequent weeks. I also don't buy that they changed the finish on the fly so quickly. But in this case, you can have your cake and eat it too. So how do you fix it and still have "controversy?" 1) Bret Hart has no role in the Pay Per View at all, other than the announcers saying that "he is in the building tonight." Have the question of Bret's allegiance be a back storyline going into the match. In addition, change the Bischoff/Zbyszko match and combine it with the failed Nash/Giant match be combined into Hall & Bischoff versus Zbyszko & The Giant. This leaves Nash free to be available on the card for later, and Hall can finish his program with Zbyszko. 2) During the Hogan-Sting match, Hogan spends the early going running from Sting, using underhanded tactics to get his licks in where he can, but Sting fights against him like a man possessed. Two or three really good spots where Sting can shine as a babyface and Hogan gets his comeuppance, before Hogan hits a low blow on Sting behind the ref's back and can get some heat back. 3) Sting fights out of the Hogan pinfall attempt (kibosh any thoughts of a fast count) and makes the comeback on Hogan. However in the midst of the comeback, the ref takes a bump (as an aside, I'd use another referee besides Nick Patrick, but its ultimately irrelevant.) We then cut to the back where a brawl has broken out between members of the NWO and WCW locker room. On WCW's side, you have Page, the Steiners, Booker T, Benoit, McMichael and a few others, while the whole of the nWo is present save for Hall and Nash, who make their way to ringside with baseball bats. The Outsiders look like they are going to attack Sting, the original three members of the NWO standing tall when... 4) Out comes Bret Hart. Time freezes as we wonder where Bret's loyalties lie. Initially it looks like he has joined with the NWO, only for him to turn his baseball bat on Hall and Nash and chase them from ringside. This leaves Hogan all alone with Sting, who finishes the comeback, locks in the Scorpion and picks up the victory with the returned referee. 5) From there, you have several options. You can still do the whole title vacation mumbo jumbo if you really want to, given that it wasn't a "clean" finish, but I wouldn't recommend it. Sting can either go back to full babyface or resume his track as a loner, standing aloof from the rest of the WCW locker room (maybe have a feud with Luger, who resents that Sting abandoned him to stand alone as the face of WCW for over a year). You have ready made programs for Bret with either Hall/Nash ("I can't get my hands on your little 'boy toy', but I can certainly kick both of your asses.") or the dream program with Hogan is in place as well. And you can also spin this to the beginning of the end of the NWO, in any numerous ways.
Eric’s point about Sting coming through the curtain for the match was perfectly legit. It was a contracted match, and Sting was never fired as part of the story, he was just that really creepy guy at work lol
Eric's lying. He says Steve came out to Wyoming and hung out with him. Then, he says he never really saw him without makeup. Did he come visit Bischoff's home in his Stinger makeup? Gimme a break!
It was frustrating to have to sit through this episode and listen Conrad's hypothetical musings and speculation, getting WAY off-track. I hate the way Conrad keeps trying to dig up Dave Meltzer's stupid opinions. That man's name should never have even been mentioned during this conversation. My problem is this: Changing the ending of the match was the worst thing you could have done, regardless of what Sting looked like on the day of the match. What you don't understand, Eric, is that the fans had been waiting for this exact moment. You built this up to Starrcade. It was a bullshit finish on a night when fans expected an outcome that wasn't bullshit. Sting needed to win ON THAT NIGHT. Not two or three months later. And by the way, that sucked too. Imagine if Wrestlemania V ended in a controversial finish. Imagine Hogan getting pinned by Macho Man and then having the match restarted. That would have sucked hard! People expected a conclusion here, Eric. Heck, your own play-by-play guys did. Listen to Mike Tenay react to Hogan's pinfall on Sting. "Are you KIDDING me?!" He sounded at incredulous as the rest of us did when we watched it! That moment knocked the wind out of the entire night. It's a terrible ending to 18 months of storytelling to have the hero win in controversy, because you had to insert the question of whether or not he actually won the fucking match. I guess my biggest problem is that I don't understand why this needed to be done. Fast count or not, pinning Sting was the worst thing you could have done. If you needed a controversial finish, get Hogan disqualified and THEN have Bret Hart restart the match. Pinning Sting assassinated him far worse than his appearance did.
Bischoff is full on self preservation isnt he. Sting looked great that night, his appearance looked better toned rather than body builder, that wouldn't have worked. The non clean finish was the start of wcw's downfall, it's exactly what wwe fans see now with Vince 'creating' his next big thing rather than let it happen naturally.
Why did nobody ever just go tell Hogan you don't have to look strong it doesn't matter if you lose you are Hulk Hogan and it can't be taken away from you?
If this were mlb and a team was preparing for the playoffs, they wouldn’t sit their very best players on the bench for weeks leading in to the biggest games, they would have them take the field, even after clenching just to stay battle ready. Bischoff got what he deserved here. Sting was set up to be unprepared. And of course Hogan would say he wasn’t ready. That was in his nature and Bischoff should’ve recognized it and put faith in his best players and went on with the planned finish.
What I never understood about Eric’s observations is that he and hulk have been seeing sting all through December and Eric must have talked to him during this time. The signs that he wasn’t mentally with it were not there before the night of Starrcade? Eric makes it look like they were so surprised by his changes ( like they haven’t seen him in a long time but they have seen him repeatedly )
The thing that annoys me is the fact that that Bischoff says Sting didn’t look ready. How did anyone not notice this in the weeks and months leading up to the match? How did they notice this just hours before? All those wrestlers are super jacked they would know if Sting was getting fat, even with a jacket on.
Sting shouldn’t have been beaten up by Savage on the go-home nitro. He looked pathetic. Sting should have come through the crowd during Starrcade and beaten the hell out of Hogan in a cage. Pilar to post from bell to bell and ends with a scorpion death drop. That’s it. It’s the ending that everyone wanted. Next night, nWo splinters with Nash and Savage creating the Wolfpac as Hogan proved to be a weak leader.
I don't care if Sting came in weighing 100 lbs & was pale as a ghost, you put THAT much effort into the story, you finish it right. Not only did you ruin the story, you ruined Bret Hart's debut.
After listening to this, I have to ask, who do you think was Hogans greatest rival in all of his wrestling career? Is it still Sting? I’d have to say, possibly and probably? This is an aside form Warrior with behind the scenes obviousness.
Would you say Hogan didn't go over strong in his prime? He spent most of those matches getting his ass kicked too. Except unlike Sting, Hogan actually sold and built heat up for the eventual comeback.
Wtf is Bischoff talking about? You're talking about the finish of a match "some of this is personal, I'm not gonna share everything " fuckin politician
I remember watching the ppv even though I was a huge Bret fan I feel he fucked up the feel of the match. He didn't fit in that match plus when Sting won I remember Bret just sitting on the top rope. He looked like he could careless about the outcome. He looked bored and sad.
I honestly believe that although Sting may have been having a rough time personally and all that, but Sting has mentioned there were politics going on the that day... (that doesn't work for me brother). Nick Patrick also has mentioned being told to do a fast count by one person and do a regular count by another who I believe was Hogan himself
Yup, just like Bruce with HHH, for some reason there's every excuse in the book about how everybody wasn't ready, didn't want it, wasn't tanned, had pointy elbows etc and needed to job out, but somehow nothing was ever wrong with Hogan/HHH. Lying sacks of shit.
idk wtf they're on about sting look amazing at starrcade 97. His gear his entrance his emotion and he got so much elevation on that stinger splash at the end dude nearly jumped clean outta the ring. he got screwed and he knew he was gonna get screwed from the get go
It’s also not like they had zero contact or interaction with Sting leading up to Starcade, he was continually doing the crazy run ins or drop ins if you will. Wouldn’t they have seen the progression of this guy and realized what kind of shape he was in (or lack there of) days even weeks prior to the event? Sorry I find it hard to believe they were stunned friggin day of and thus forced to call an audible, that’s bravo sierra sir (bs). Has Sting ever rebut this or responded to it?
I remember watching Sting come out and thinking “holy crap, he’s not even tan and not jumping around excited”. Not. Why would his crow character be tan or acting all exciting? It literally goes against the characteristics he was portraying…. My theory is last minute they wanted an fd’ up ending to create controversy like what the WWF had going on with Bret/Shawn… BEST 83 Weeks segment ever though 😂
Eric is lying, as usual. This is what Sting looked like during Starrcade 1997 -- you can see not only did he have a tan, but he was bigger than Hogan. i.imgur.com/DW4CxK7.jpg
@@Arctic_Falcon not true. Don't cherry pick a picture. Sting used to be waaayyy bigger. Why do you think he was wearing that weird singlet with the shoulders and chest? To give the appearance that he was bigger. Notice how he ditched that gear right after... When he got in better shape. He looks noticeably flabby in that match, he has no definition. Also that's a fake tan. 🤣 Can you explain why Sting doesn't sell anything in that match? The guy didn't know what to do with the character. Or kickout of the leg drop when he was supposed to LIKE EVERYONE ELSE DID. 🤣 He was completely out of it mentally. Stop with your preconceived narrative and look objectively. And to book Sting losing clean would've been even worse than what happened.
Eric bischoff will defend his boyfriend Hogan no matter what if it was the other way and Hogan wasn't tan he will still beat Sting clean but Sting is not tan let's change the finish there was nothing wrong with Sting in starrcade 1997 bischoff is lying here and covering up for Hogan for not wanting to do the job and put over Sting clean
That's the real issue. We haven't heard Sting's side, and it doesn't seem like we ever will at this point. Giving Bischoff the benefit of the doubt, I wonder if Sting had some other problem (drugs, alcohol, maybe even a marital affair). In which case, Bischoff could be seen as being discrete out of respect for Sting.
Back when Sting has the Crow gimmick, and didn’t yet wrestle a match, he was playable in at least two video games that I recall. I think the costume he wore in matches for those games would’ve done him more favors than the singlet to not only fit his character, but also hide how small he got at the time. But they didn’t realize that till that night, so hindsight and all that.
Big Sting fan. Agree with Eric's explanation of Sting coming down only when he's not expected. Also respect Eric for not spilling private info that Sting may have said. It sounds like Steve had a lot of demons that he was fighting at the time. I got into WCW right after this, so I got to be introduced to Sting right after this. Would love to hear Sting's side of things but I doubt it will ever come out because he is all past this because he is just that type of person.
it was the same against goldberg, goldberg didn't beat hogan clean, hogan was clearly on top and had put goldberg into a few leg drops, hogan then got distracted by the activity at ringside and forgot about goldberg goldberg was tanned by the way
I I don't care if Sting shows up 50 pounds overweight and with one legg falling off... the finish of that match should have been the same. Sting fights off all the cheating and possible run-ins from the NWO. No slow fast count just Stinger Splash and Deathlock or Deathdrop middle of the ring clean as a fucking whistle.
The entirety of everything from that match forward was a disaster for WCW. You look at the roster going into 98’….. they should’ve still been able to stay neck and neck, if not better than the WWF. Just look at the names they had going into 98’ and the potential storylines and new main event level talent that could’ve pushed and they basically phoned it in with the same old shit. If I could fantasy book any time in wrestling it would’ve been WCW 98’.
Even if Eric's telling the truth and didn't have faith in Sting as champ, then why the stupid screwed up finish? Why not just change the booking completely until he WAS ready, and have him lose here? This finish just hurt the company, the business, and the fans. It just reeks of Hogan getting in Patrick's ear, telling him to do a slow count, and Eric lying for him.
So was your sister on skip the games .com but im not complaining. Sorry, im just kidding. Your comment just happened to work out perfectly for a punchline i wanted to use. Have a good day.
Some of this shit is really hard to grasp. But in some ways I almost wonder how much of this is Eric taking the steam on all of this as an idiot instead of laying it on the two people (largely one) who it stemmed out of. I think some of his points do make some sense - it would be hard to commit if someone hasn’t done the easiest task to show they’re committed and prepared. But it’s hard to totally grasp that everything is out behind someone for 16 months with the end game being you’re going with them. But you have no oversight or continuing communications for things in that tiem to see their mental game or their lack of preparation until the day of the event happening? In some senses it feels like there’s more to things than simple incompetence of the company at the time. But embellishing further would require betraying confidences of two men he respects a lot and I think if we heard everhthinf invovled the choice made here could make a lot more sense than it did:
the whole story line leading up to the match was stupid they made JJ Dillion look like a Moron becouse he didn't get what both Sting and the fans wanted which was Hogan.
Lol saying you’re not going to say something or get into it, is pretty much saying something and getting into it. Much worse however potentially alluding to something and then opening the door for rampant speculation lol very passive move there sir
Sting looks no different a year from then. This is all Hogan Bischoff is full of shit here n you add Meltzer he wore a jacket during the entrance how did Meltzer kkow
I don't think anybody remembers that match. All I see are the same comments over and over. Oh the count screwed the entire thing up. Go back and watch the match! It was screwed up from the get go. Sting barely gets any offence in for starters. Hogan kicks his ass for the majority of the match. So even without the three count it would have been terrible. Sting should have dominated the match so much more than he did. Hogan was in control for most of it which made Sting look weak. Of course that was Hogans plan from the start.
Go watch the match again. A) Sting was tan [keep in mind if Hogan was any darker he'd have been a member of Harlem Heat], B) Sting was larger than Hogan (i.imgur.com/DW4CxK7.jpg), and C) Hogan dominated the match with his dull slow-motion repertoire leaving very little for Sting to do, who when did something, did not appear to be a person who had not been in a ring for over a year. Sting was fine. So what was Hogan's excuse? He didn't have one -- he was a terrible wrestler at that point and was unwilling to be a team player. Nick Patrick finally told the real story in 2017, confirming Bischoff's version of events is BS -- Hogan wanted a slow count, Sting wanted a fast count, and Bischoff hid somewhere in the arena in order to avoid having to make a decision. Bischoff is a con-man who I think now actually believes his own BS.
What a crock of shit. It was all Hogan playing the creative control card. Easiest match to book ever - have Sting come out and pummel Hogan, then have Hogan do something nefarious to gain control in the middle, then Sting makes a comeback, splash, scorpion deathlock, tapout. Exactly what the fans expected and in this case they would have been thrilled to get it.
BTW, even if Sting was paranoid about getting f-d over, Sting was right. The ref slow-counted the fast-count and ruined the entire match, the pay-per-view, the angle, the fan's payoff, Bret Hart's debut, and Sting's push. All in 3 seconds. Sting was right, you f'd him.
Yeah and Bischoff blames the ref 😆
@@derekazyan9942 If Nick Patrick had the fast count communicated to him before the match, Mr. Azyan, then obviously it'd be his fault. I can't see how there could've been miscommunication since he was an active part of the match as the referee, sir
That's why there was in essence a make-up match subsequently speaking, sir. It was to more or less fix the screw-up that'd occurred in the initial Starrcade '97 Sting / Hulkster match
@@michaelvaughn8864 They'd already screwed the pooch big-time by that point.
@@michaelvaughn8864 Nick Patrick has since said that Hogan told him to slow count the pin and when he went to Bischoff to see what to do, Bischoff hid in his office.
Regardless of how Sting appeared to be, they should have had him win clean and deal with everything afterwards. Keep him in the rafters and mysterious, turn heel and walk out with the nWo who have turned on Hogan, etc. What they chose was the worst thing they could have done. The story had been built for a year and a half. The fans needed Sting to win. WCW HAD to give the fans that finish and then go from there.
Agreed, but aside from Shawn Michaels, I can’t think of anyone that has ever been crowned the top guy and had this much baggage at the same time. Your champ not only has to pull off being the face of the company but needs to be reliable.
He was reliable because he want off TV going forward this is Bischoff trying to save Hogan his ass buddy bc he didn’t want to lose being the champ at that time. Hogan is an awesome performer but he is a shit person to his peers.
@@gboni66 get the fuck out of here. Michaels never in his life was as over as sting was in 97, period. Sting was the most over wrestler in the fucking world In 97. More over than anyone, more over than Austin in 97.
@@RealFuckingReviews more over than Austin 97? Yeah, you get the fuck out of here.
@@gboni66there wasn't anything bigger than the nwo storyline in 97, and sting was the most over person in that fucking angle, and that's not debatable, that's a fact.
9:36 well no shit Bischoff...who would be excited about walking into a meeting about the finish of a match with Hulk Hogan.
Underrated comment. ^
This comment needs more fucking likes.
brutus the barber would be excited
If he's doing the crow gimmick why would he be tanned
Good point, Mr. Shaffer. The late Brandon Lee's character in The Crow, Eric Draven, had a white painted face with black lines to affect a pale appearance. Henceforth, no tan necessary
Because you still dont want him to be pasty white! You can still see Sting’s arms and chest! Not only was he pasty white, but he was so small due to lack of working out.
Also, i forget what video, but CONRAD is talking about all the things that make Hogan great, and guess what one of the things he mentioned! THE BIG TAN BROTHER! And he wasnt being sarcastic!
And also. Sting’s character was (as Scott Hall said) supposed to be a “dark” character - so if Sting was in a “dark” place in his life - IT WOULD MAKE EVEN MORE SENSE!
Yeah that's silly. That's like me going on an Artic adventure and expecting to see grizzly bears and all i see is polar bears. I like Eric, but what he saying doesn't connect.
Being tanned was Hulk Hogans gripe. He’s the reason the finish was muffed, what is Eric supposed to do when HH has control?
*I just went back and watched this match after listening to Eric's explanation and Sting looked fine. Eric is full of shit. He knew what the right thing to do was but didn't want to upset his buddy Hogan.*
hogan lost to sting 9 times . never beat sting in a one on one match mr smart mark
@@Aizenborgman *None of that has anything to do with this specific situation.*
Kuji Chagulia my eng is poor . yes it dose cuz you said eric didnt want to upest his buddy hogan so it dose ^^ hogan didnt have a problem losing to sting and he lost 9 times to sting ^^
sting definitely was smaller. and he started looking sloppy during his early wolfpac days, probably due to his marital problems at the time. that can kill a workout regimen.
Aizen bo he didn’t want to lose clean to sting at starrcade 97 and anyone with half a brain knows it
You'll never convince me that Hogan didn't use his creative control and pressure on Bischoff to destroy this finish.
Hogan didn't want to lose clean, plain and simple. "tHaT dOeSn'T wOrK fOr Me BrOtHeR."
This was the beginning of the end for WCW.
The rest of this is just Eric Bischoff nonsense.
may have been in a sense. Like Warrior. He also knew sting would be a flop as champ----- and he was. A major fucking flop. Whether you like it or not, he was right. Also try and remember when sting has lost a match clean, ever. Hogan wasn't the only guy who didn't want to lose. And there's many more who lost less than hogan.
@@hw5091 As if Sting was a flop as champ 😂 don't confused "badly booked and terrible wasted" with actual flopping. Sting was the most over character in the entire industry right then. Eric had zero idea how to book actual wrestling, just how to entertain with storylines and controversy.
@@andyb9675 what did Sting do that got him over (other than going against the biggest angle and heel ever, NWO and Hogan?)
@@RG-lr4pkYou’re kidding right? Did you watch WCW from 1989 to 2001? Sting WAS WCW. I can’t tell if you’re joking or not?
When do you think the fast count angle was thought of originally? Cos Bret Hart obviously still thought that was the angle on the night. Otherwise why did he still come out if the finish was changed to a Hogan win with a clean count ? I’m so confused
If he wasn’t “ready” he should have been jobbed out. If you’re going to put him over, then put him OVER. Eric’s excuse is nonsensical.
Because he wasn't tan and not excited
It’s because Eric’s boy said “That doesn’t work for me brother”.
It's nonsensical cos it's BS.
Eric's wrong. Sting has indeed spoken on the private issues he was experiencing during this time of his life. According to Sting, he'd fallen into a rut of inactivity filling his days with painkillers, Somas, and drinking because his marriage had become miserable for him. The time he'd spent on the road with the boys earlier in his wrestling career hadn't just driven a wedge between he and his wife, it'd changed him intrinsically. It had made him a different person entirely.
Back home, he felt like the only way to make his marriage work was to make his marriage a "work"-- to masquerade as the husband she wanted to see in him. As Sting himself will admit, he's not that good of an actor. Thus, he quickly began feeling incredibly guilty about this masquerade, and turned to the same substances at home he relied upon while out on the road. What made it all worse was the way he had been eager to get off the road in order to put down the drugs & alcohol while he recharged at home. Once he realized that line of thinking was just a lie he'd been telling himself, he really felt demoralized.
Sting hasn't gone into a tremendous amount of detail over this particular part of the story as he feels it's not his story to tell, but relations within his own nuclear family (his parents & siblings) was seemingly worsening by the week with him off the road and back in the picture. His biological family had fractured to the point of no longer speaking to one another because no one cared about anyone else but themselves. He was especially wracked with guilt over the relationship he'd allowed to deteriorate with one of his older brothers. He'd gotten into a very intense dispute & physical altercation with this particular brother after it was revealed this brother didn't just have an affairm, but that he also had a separate secret second family he was keeping hidden away, as well as this brother having become a criminal & a drug addict as well. Sting felt he'd lost all credibility as a man because he couldn't avoid the fact he'd essentially become the same type of person he'd hated his brother for becoming-- a womanizing scoundrel & a lying drug user devoting too much time & energy into keeping his darkest secrets hidden away.
Sting is a very private, very reserved guy in real life also who doesn't like to speak in much detail on these things. He only does it in the confines of his faith as he's so famously known for having become a Christian during the 2000s, despite being raised an atheist his entire life. He doesn't like recounting this particular stage of his life as he believes it serves no purpose beyond reopening old scars that took a lot of time and work to force to heal. It's only in his Christian advocacy efforts where you learn about the real Steve Borden.
His lack of motivation and preparation at Starcade '97 really wasn't a case of Sting expecting Hogan & the WCW to screw him and deny him the title bout at the last minute the way Eric speculates here. Rather, Starcade '97 came at a point where his career wasn't the same priority it once had been. Furthermore, he also felt conflicted mentally over committing himself to wrestling again as it was his wrestling career he now blamed for implanting him all the things he now hated about himself.
The "Crow era" of Sting will remain an immortal gimmick for fans because it coincided perfectly with the stage of his life where Sting had basically become that character. He genuinely felt isolated and indifferent to the outside world altogether, thus it was a very believable performance he was giving.
Britton Thompson aka sting
Eric said he wasn't going to talk about everything that was said in the room because sting hasn't talked about it.
I mean all of this is bad, but not nearly as bad as the fact that he didn't have a tan.
Can never trust Bischoff when talking about his best mate Hogan. Hes just another Conman near the level of Paul Heyman.
Long post but these are my thoughts!
The Sting v Hogan feud was one of the best told stories in wrestling history. Stings silence began after Fall Brawl 1996 (September) He wouldn't speak again till January 8th 1998 (I'm not including that mamacita BS after the Starrcade match.
WCW were sitting on a goldmine! All they had to do at Starrcade was deliver! This bullshit that Sting wasn't tanned, WTF? His whole character was the crow, a dark mysterious man who had become a lone wolf, so it only makes sense for him to have "given up" and be as white as a ghost! He wasn't fat, or any bullshit like that, so the tanned gym shit is exactly that, shit!
The Starrcade match should've been a cage match, a cage with a roof so there was no way for any outside interference, with Sting destroying Hogan and winning clean. For the entire time Sting dropped from the rafters for the 1st time at Uncensored 1997, he would single handedly take out the entire nWo. 10-15 men vs one, and he would take them all out, certainly never be laid out. Yet after all that, at Starrcade he was beat down, taken to the mat by Hogan. The man went from unstoppable to looking like a goof.
What a way to ruin the pay-off for a match 15 months in the making.
So, back to Eric Bischoff's notion of Sting rocked up unprepared looking like he hadn't hit a gym in months, what? We're supposed to believe that Bischoff & Hogan didn't notice this on the Nitro go-home show the week of Starrcade? Or ANY of the numerous times they would interact with him at the Nitro's in 97? BS! Just like Hogan v Warrior at Halloween Havoc was all Hogan's fault (as he himself has admitted too) so is Starrcade.
I couldn't get enough of the Sting v nWo deal back then, and when Starrcade ended I turned to my best friend & said "what a let down" HECK, Hogan didn't even allow Sting to win clean at SuperBrawl 98, Savage hit Hogan was hit in the head with a spray can!
Total mismanagement. Just look at Starrcade 98! No Sting, no Hogan! Starrcade 98 should've seen a Hogan v Goldberg rematch.
You said it all man, Eric was a bro and "That don't work for me brother" Hogan would rather fuck up the biggest finish in wrestling history for selfish reasons and Eric is trying to defend it.
@@johnnymack60 Eric owes him his entire livelihood.. he's gonna defend him to the grave 😂
@Matthew Caligari I never saw this match and wasn't familiar with this story (I was abroad during this time with no access to television) please give me a run down of the story and where it all went wrong. Thank you!
6:07 Eric starts to think of how to bullshit his way out of telling the truth...Hogan wanted things to go his way. "That doesn't work for me brother."
His lack of socializing was actually good for the character. Kayfabe.
It couldn't have been planned better due to timing, sir.
I didn't look at Sting when he came out and think that he was smaller than normal. I thought he came to the ring and he looked like he was ticked off and ready to tear Hogan apart. The entrance with all of the scorpions put on the crowd with the lights was really cool. The only bad thing apart of this match was the so called "fast count" and then having Bret restart the match. We didn't need that. Hogan should have done the right thing and lose cleanly.
Nobody thought about that, this is bischoff bullshit.
I was at this show, and the entire card was definitely lackluster. It was great to see Sting win, but hid entrance was meh, and the ending..oh boy! Best thing was watching the limos pull into the garage at the arena (now the Verizon Center). I was 10 feet from Booker T! He looked me in the eye!! LOL
The craziest thing about this is that Eric Bischoff admits that, yes, Hulk Hogan played a very big role in creative. Why he did it is immaterial and is a distraction from the fact that Hogan was a kingmaker and often made himself king.
This was one of the best 83 week convos
Sting thought he's gonna f me. And you f'd him Eric
After Starcade when sting did not get the belt that was the beginning of the end for me watching WCW all that time invested that was probably one of the poorest decisions in wrestling but I guess it was a good thing because that’s when the attitude era started And if you were a wrestling fan during the attitude era you know how great it was
He did get it...he ended up beating hogan
@@leestens5539 fuck that, lol. He still didn't go over clean on Hogan, there was a bunch of bullshit that led up to the w. Hogan needed to tap clean to the scorpion deathlock at starccade, period.
To this day everybody misses the fact that Sting DID kick out of that failed slow count.
He does it with the shoulder that's away from Patrick.
But he still does it. Why? Because he didn't trust them, and he was right.
Well I mean let’s also acknowledge that whether he trusted them or not when you’re under the impression that the finish is supposed to be a fast count you’re going to notice that the count isn’t going fast. So he probably kicked out to save the match because it would’ve allowed them to pivot past the count and point out that he’d kicked out and not been pinned. But they were so focused on a fast count that didn’t happen that it didn’t matter. And that isn’t anything against them for not noticing it and pivoting becsuse doing that on a split second would be super hard to do.
Also, Hogan was holding the tights.
We saw little shawn Michaels and little bret hart on WWF beating Sid and undertakee, who were far mode physically impressive. This botch isnt excused by sting not being bulked up enough
The entrance was great and intense to me.
Fucking excellent story telling! Something I've noticed, during this time Sting was obviously going through a difficult time. The respect others show by not giving details is fantastic!
Sting has himself said what was going on during this time. He even made a (crap) movie about it.
Two things that make perfect sense:
Sting being delighted about Hogan coming in, Jake Roberts said when he worked with Sting he felt Sting was sick of his position of always being the big face to take on the newest heel coming in, so it makes perfect sense that he was happy about Hogan coming in
Sting feeling they were going to screw him in the match with Hogan so he stopped caring about making the effort, have you ever woke up after a night on the booze and thought "Thank God I never sent that text, what the hell was I thinking?"
Alcohol makes you paranoid, so imagine if you're drunk ALL the time?
That's where Sting was at that point
But ultimately the full blame lies with Nick Patrick, he truly only had one job and he couldn't have made a bigger mess of it with his regular count, what was required of him really wasn't rocket science
In so many words, Eric seems to be saying Sting was depressed, cynical and disinterested. Why that was the case, is obviously being hidden…but their reaction to that attitude seems to be to construct the match in a way that robbed Sting of his glory, because he wasn’t up to their standard. They basically ruined the ending of the movie to spite Sting for not being enthusiastic…they delivered the bare minimum they needed to and did it in a way that revealed their scorn for Sting.
Exactly. They let the backstage influence the on-screen product too much here. They needed to be all-in for Starrcade '97, regardless of the backstage. If Sting is still a problem, find a way to take the belt off of him after the fact, but you're trying to build "Starrcade" up more as an event and the event itself had to go off without a hitch. As it turned out, there were multiple hitches on the show unfortunately.
i think sting said he didnt know what was going to happen til the last minute
Some one finally acknowledged the elephant in the room..."you're out there in your underwear "🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I find it interesting how Bischoff admits Stings lack of enthusiasm may have stemmed from his belief that Hogan was going to fuck him over, but then says their decision to play the match out like they did had nothing to do with Hogan wanting to fuck Sting over. And when you watch the match it couldn't be more clear that Hogan wanted to fuck Sting over, and Stings concerns became a reality.
The finish to Starrcade 1997 was awful. It should have been clean.
It isn't just that Sting didn't go over clean, it's that Hogan sucked up all the offense in the match and made Sting look like...just a guy. Hogan had been running scared from Sting for a year and a half. He should have been cowering in his boots and used every underhanded tactic in the book to try and go over. Add to this that Nick Patrick "forgot" to fast count and the fact that it screws over Bret Hart's debut with the company and you have a botched finish, made all the worse by the hamfisted title vacating in subsequent weeks. I also don't buy that they changed the finish on the fly so quickly. But in this case, you can have your cake and eat it too. So how do you fix it and still have "controversy?"
1) Bret Hart has no role in the Pay Per View at all, other than the announcers saying that "he is in the building tonight." Have the question of Bret's allegiance be a back storyline going into the match. In addition, change the Bischoff/Zbyszko match and combine it with the failed Nash/Giant match be combined into Hall & Bischoff versus Zbyszko & The Giant. This leaves Nash free to be available on the card for later, and Hall can finish his program with Zbyszko.
2) During the Hogan-Sting match, Hogan spends the early going running from Sting, using underhanded tactics to get his licks in where he can, but Sting fights against him like a man possessed. Two or three really good spots where Sting can shine as a babyface and Hogan gets his comeuppance, before Hogan hits a low blow on Sting behind the ref's back and can get some heat back.
3) Sting fights out of the Hogan pinfall attempt (kibosh any thoughts of a fast count) and makes the comeback on Hogan. However in the midst of the comeback, the ref takes a bump (as an aside, I'd use another referee besides Nick Patrick, but its ultimately irrelevant.) We then cut to the back where a brawl has broken out between members of the NWO and WCW locker room. On WCW's side, you have Page, the Steiners, Booker T, Benoit, McMichael and a few others, while the whole of the nWo is present save for Hall and Nash, who make their way to ringside with baseball bats. The Outsiders look like they are going to attack Sting, the original three members of the NWO standing tall when...
4) Out comes Bret Hart. Time freezes as we wonder where Bret's loyalties lie. Initially it looks like he has joined with the NWO, only for him to turn his baseball bat on Hall and Nash and chase them from ringside. This leaves Hogan all alone with Sting, who finishes the comeback, locks in the Scorpion and picks up the victory with the returned referee.
5) From there, you have several options. You can still do the whole title vacation mumbo jumbo if you really want to, given that it wasn't a "clean" finish, but I wouldn't recommend it. Sting can either go back to full babyface or resume his track as a loner, standing aloof from the rest of the WCW locker room (maybe have a feud with Luger, who resents that Sting abandoned him to stand alone as the face of WCW for over a year). You have ready made programs for Bret with either Hall/Nash ("I can't get my hands on your little 'boy toy', but I can certainly kick both of your asses.") or the dream program with Hogan is in place as well. And you can also spin this to the beginning of the end of the NWO, in any numerous ways.
Eric’s point about Sting coming through the curtain for the match was perfectly legit. It was a contracted match, and Sting was never fired as part of the story, he was just that really creepy guy at work lol
Eric's lying. He says Steve came out to Wyoming and hung out with him. Then, he says he never really saw him without makeup. Did he come visit Bischoff's home in his Stinger makeup? Gimme a break!
It was frustrating to have to sit through this episode and listen Conrad's hypothetical musings and speculation, getting WAY off-track. I hate the way Conrad keeps trying to dig up Dave Meltzer's stupid opinions. That man's name should never have even been mentioned during this conversation.
My problem is this: Changing the ending of the match was the worst thing you could have done, regardless of what Sting looked like on the day of the match. What you don't understand, Eric, is that the fans had been waiting for this exact moment. You built this up to Starrcade. It was a bullshit finish on a night when fans expected an outcome that wasn't bullshit. Sting needed to win ON THAT NIGHT. Not two or three months later.
And by the way, that sucked too.
Imagine if Wrestlemania V ended in a controversial finish. Imagine Hogan getting pinned by Macho Man and then having the match restarted. That would have sucked hard!
People expected a conclusion here, Eric. Heck, your own play-by-play guys did. Listen to Mike Tenay react to Hogan's pinfall on Sting. "Are you KIDDING me?!" He sounded at incredulous as the rest of us did when we watched it! That moment knocked the wind out of the entire night.
It's a terrible ending to 18 months of storytelling to have the hero win in controversy, because you had to insert the question of whether or not he actually won the fucking match.
I guess my biggest problem is that I don't understand why this needed to be done. Fast count or not, pinning Sting was the worst thing you could have done. If you needed a controversial finish, get Hogan disqualified and THEN have Bret Hart restart the match. Pinning Sting assassinated him far worse than his appearance did.
Eric is a lying sack of shit, you can't blame Conrad for wanting to hear someone else's opinion.
I guess i have to re-visit this match to give any opinion
Bischoff is full on self preservation isnt he. Sting looked great that night, his appearance looked better toned rather than body builder, that wouldn't have worked.
The non clean finish was the start of wcw's downfall, it's exactly what wwe fans see now with Vince 'creating' his next big thing rather than let it happen naturally.
Why did nobody ever just go tell Hogan you don't have to look strong it doesn't matter if you lose you are Hulk Hogan and it can't be taken away from you?
If this were mlb and a team was preparing for the playoffs, they wouldn’t sit their very best players on the bench for weeks leading in to the biggest games, they would have them take the field, even after clenching just to stay battle ready. Bischoff got what he deserved here. Sting was set up to be unprepared. And of course Hogan would say he wasn’t ready. That was in his nature and Bischoff should’ve recognized it and put faith in his best players and went on with the planned finish.
This was a disservice to the fans by not giving a proper payoff at the biggest PPV of the year.
So during Starrcade 1997 Sting looked small and didn't have a tan, eh? i.imgur.com/DW4CxK7.jpg
Eric is lying
@@mikelandryjr7310 It seems it's what he does best.
What I never understood about Eric’s observations is that he and hulk have been seeing sting all through December and Eric must have talked to him during this time. The signs that he wasn’t mentally with it were not there before the night of Starrcade? Eric makes it look like they were so surprised by his changes ( like they haven’t seen him in a long time but they have seen him repeatedly )
I love 83 weeks gotta love easy E
Kids have no idea how hot wrestling was in the late 90s
The thing that annoys me is the fact that that Bischoff says Sting didn’t look ready. How did anyone not notice this in the weeks and months leading up to the match? How did they notice this just hours before? All those wrestlers are super jacked they would know if Sting was getting fat, even with a jacket on.
Sting shouldn’t have been beaten up
by Savage on the go-home
nitro. He looked pathetic.
Sting should have come through the crowd during Starrcade and beaten the hell out of Hogan in a cage. Pilar to post from bell to bell and ends with a scorpion death drop. That’s it. It’s the ending that everyone wanted.
Next night, nWo splinters with Nash and Savage creating the Wolfpac as Hogan proved to be a weak leader.
I don't care if Sting came in weighing 100 lbs & was pale as a ghost, you put THAT much effort into the story, you finish it right.
Not only did you ruin the story, you ruined Bret Hart's debut.
Eric Bischoff starts everything with "AGAIN...."
your boint ^^
@@Aizenborgman Butt Joint?
shut up
After listening to this, I have to ask, who do you think was Hogans greatest rival in all of his wrestling career? Is it still Sting? I’d have to say, possibly and probably? This is an aside form Warrior with behind the scenes obviousness.
Macho Man.
Original idea was for Sting going over strong? Hogan spent most of the match on the offense, it made Sting look rather...normal.
Would you say Hogan didn't go over strong in his prime? He spent most of those matches getting his ass kicked too. Except unlike Sting, Hogan actually sold and built heat up for the eventual comeback.
Wtf is Bischoff talking about? You're talking about the finish of a match "some of this is personal, I'm not gonna share everything " fuckin politician
I remember watching the ppv even though I was a huge Bret fan I feel he fucked up the feel of the match. He didn't fit in that match plus when Sting won I remember Bret just sitting on the top rope. He looked like he could careless about the outcome. He looked bored and sad.
I honestly believe that although Sting may have been having a rough time personally and all that, but Sting has mentioned there were politics going on the that day... (that doesn't work for me brother). Nick Patrick also has mentioned being told to do a fast count by one person and do a regular count by another who I believe was Hogan himself
David Arquette must have been super tanned
Yup, just like Bruce with HHH, for some reason there's every excuse in the book about how everybody wasn't ready, didn't want it, wasn't tanned, had pointy elbows etc and needed to job out, but somehow nothing was ever wrong with Hogan/HHH. Lying sacks of shit.
Hogan's ego and 100% creative control.
just shut up ok . crybaby
WcW roster was stacked in the 90s but when i watch back on the matches 90% of them end with either run ins and DQS nobody wanted to lose clean
This is the moment I flipped to WWF and never went back to WCW.
idk wtf they're on about sting look amazing at starrcade 97. His gear his entrance his emotion and he got so much elevation on that stinger splash at the end dude nearly jumped clean outta the ring. he got screwed and he knew he was gonna get screwed from the get go
It’s also not like they had zero contact or interaction with Sting leading up to Starcade, he was continually doing the crazy run ins or drop ins if you will. Wouldn’t they have seen the progression of this guy and realized what kind of shape he was in (or lack there of) days even weeks prior to the event? Sorry I find it hard to believe they were stunned friggin day of and thus forced to call an audible, that’s bravo sierra sir (bs). Has Sting ever rebut this or responded to it?
Eric acknowledges not funny but his smarts carry him
I can’t believe he’s blaming Sting for what was clearly Hogan’s BS
bash at the beach 2000 tells the tale of anything wrong with any hulk hogan match in wcw, enough said.
by the way sting did have issues in his life back then
Kevin Sullivan said in an interview with Hannibal that he had nothing to do with this match that Eric did.
Which is even more bizarre, why wouldn't they've one of lead bookers involved in the Main Event to biggest Pay Per View in WCW history
I remember watching Sting come out and thinking “holy crap, he’s not even tan and not jumping around excited”.
Not. Why would his crow character be tan or acting all exciting? It literally goes against the characteristics he was portraying….
My theory is last minute they wanted an fd’ up ending to create controversy like what the WWF had going on with Bret/Shawn…
BEST 83 Weeks segment ever though 😂
Killed WCW, maybe it was intentional or poor management.. Bischoff and/ or Hogan
Have you seen what happened to Atlanta after WCW left??
If erics account is what really happened. I'd have sting lose clean.
Eric is lying, as usual. This is what Sting looked like during Starrcade 1997 -- you can see not only did he have a tan, but he was bigger than Hogan. i.imgur.com/DW4CxK7.jpg
@@Arctic_Falcon not true. Don't cherry pick a picture. Sting used to be waaayyy bigger. Why do you think he was wearing that weird singlet with the shoulders and chest? To give the appearance that he was bigger. Notice how he ditched that gear right after... When he got in better shape. He looks noticeably flabby in that match, he has no definition.
Also that's a fake tan. 🤣 Can you explain why Sting doesn't sell anything in that match? The guy didn't know what to do with the character. Or kickout of the leg drop when he was supposed to LIKE EVERYONE ELSE DID. 🤣 He was completely out of it mentally. Stop with your preconceived narrative and look objectively.
And to book Sting losing clean would've been even worse than what happened.
Eric basically admits that it was dumb luck that he had any success in the wrestling buisness Everytime he does one of these podcasts lol 🤣
Short answer: Terry didn't want to do the J. O. B.
Eric bischoff will defend his boyfriend Hogan no matter what if it was the other way and Hogan wasn't tan he will still beat Sting clean but Sting is not tan let's change the finish there was nothing wrong with Sting in starrcade 1997 bischoff is lying here and covering up for Hogan for not wanting to do the job and put over Sting clean
Until I hear Stings side, i believe Eric is lying through his teeth!!!
That's the real issue. We haven't heard Sting's side, and it doesn't seem like we ever will at this point. Giving Bischoff the benefit of the doubt, I wonder if Sting had some other problem (drugs, alcohol, maybe even a marital affair). In which case, Bischoff could be seen as being discrete out of respect for Sting.
Here's Sting talking about it:
ruclips.net/video/Py5nGukdRBc/видео.html&
He basically all but implies that Hogan was the reason it changed.
Back when Sting has the Crow gimmick, and didn’t yet wrestle a match, he was playable in at least two video games that I recall.
I think the costume he wore in matches for those games would’ve done him more favors than the singlet to not only fit his character, but also hide how small he got at the time.
But they didn’t realize that till that night, so hindsight and all that.
At Starrcade 1997, Sting was larger than Hogan, who had something like 4-5 inches in height on Sting. Look here: i.imgur.com/DW4CxK7.jpg
Big Sting fan. Agree with Eric's explanation of Sting coming down only when he's not expected. Also respect Eric for not spilling private info that Sting may have said. It sounds like Steve had a lot of demons that he was fighting at the time. I got into WCW right after this, so I got to be introduced to Sting right after this. Would love to hear Sting's side of things but I doubt it will ever come out because he is all past this because he is just that type of person.
it was the same against goldberg, goldberg didn't beat hogan clean, hogan was clearly on top and had put goldberg into a few leg drops, hogan then got distracted by the activity at ringside and forgot about goldberg
goldberg was tanned by the way
I I don't care if Sting shows up 50 pounds overweight and with one legg falling off... the finish of that match should have been the same. Sting fights off all the cheating and possible run-ins from the NWO. No slow fast count just Stinger Splash and Deathlock or Deathdrop middle of the ring clean as a fucking whistle.
This junk finish still pisses me off
The entirety of everything from that match forward was a disaster for WCW.
You look at the roster going into 98’….. they should’ve still been able to stay neck and neck, if not better than the WWF. Just look at the names they had going into 98’ and the potential storylines and new main event level talent that could’ve pushed and they basically phoned it in with the same old shit.
If I could fantasy book any time in wrestling it would’ve been WCW 98’.
Sooo did he really try to justify that horrible entrance. I can think of 10 ways to make that entrance better.
They should speed up the count on WWE Network now 😂
It was all to make Bret Hart look bad I swear to God!!!!
Just sucks the best these guys could come up with was a ref screw job, slow count or fast count
Sting was a dark character similar to the Undertaker..and Undertaker was always tanned🙄😂ridiculous...
Even if Eric's telling the truth and didn't have faith in Sting as champ, then why the stupid screwed up finish? Why not just change the booking completely until he WAS ready, and have him lose here? This finish just hurt the company, the business, and the fans. It just reeks of Hogan getting in Patrick's ear, telling him to do a slow count, and Eric lying for him.
Damn I didn’t know EB part-time bus driver. I wonder if Steve is OK after being thrown under it.
Sting really did start to look disinterested in wrestling in 98’99’
This was already posted.
So was your sister on skip the games .com but im not complaining.
Sorry, im just kidding. Your comment just happened to work out perfectly for a punchline i wanted to use. Have a good day.
Some of this shit is really hard to grasp. But in some ways I almost wonder how much of this is Eric taking the steam on all of this as an idiot instead of laying it on the two people (largely one) who it stemmed out of. I think some of his points do make some sense - it would be hard to commit if someone hasn’t done the easiest task to show they’re committed and prepared.
But it’s hard to totally grasp that everything is out behind someone for 16 months with the end game being you’re going with them. But you have no oversight or continuing communications for things in that tiem to see their mental game or their lack of preparation until the day of the event happening? In some senses it feels like there’s more to things than simple incompetence of the company at the time. But embellishing further would require betraying confidences of two men he respects a lot and I think if we heard everhthinf invovled the choice made here could make a lot more sense than it did:
Silly bullshit. "Doesn't work for me brother" is to blame for trying to fix something that wasn't broken.
the whole story line leading up to the match was stupid they made JJ Dillion look like a Moron becouse he didn't get what both Sting and the fans wanted which was Hogan.
Sheamus
I can buy Sting wasn’t 100%. But what does that have to do with a BS “fast count”?
This whole, "he clearly hasn't been working out" narrative is ridiculous. Go back and look at this match. Sting is bigger than Hogan.
What if Sting and the fake Sting aka Cobra didn't fight one on one
Lol saying you’re not going to say something or get into it, is pretty much saying something and getting into it. Much worse however potentially alluding to something and then opening the door for rampant speculation lol very passive move there sir
Eric you blew it because you didn’t have the balls to stand up to Hogan. That’s it
Nothing is EVER his fault, is it?
Sting looks no different a year from then. This is all Hogan Bischoff is full of shit here n you add Meltzer he wore a jacket during the entrance how did Meltzer kkow
I don't think anybody remembers that match. All I see are the same comments over and over. Oh the count screwed the entire thing up. Go back and watch the match!
It was screwed up from the get go. Sting barely gets any offence in for starters. Hogan kicks his ass for the majority of the match. So even without the three count it would have been terrible.
Sting should have dominated the match so much more than he did. Hogan was in control for most of it which made Sting look weak. Of course that was Hogans plan from the start.
Lost lots of respect for Sting for not being ready. But why put the Bum over. Bad for business Eazy E. Hollywood was always da Man.
Go watch the match again. A) Sting was tan [keep in mind if Hogan was any darker he'd have been a member of Harlem Heat], B) Sting was larger than Hogan (i.imgur.com/DW4CxK7.jpg), and C) Hogan dominated the match with his dull slow-motion repertoire leaving very little for Sting to do, who when did something, did not appear to be a person who had not been in a ring for over a year. Sting was fine. So what was Hogan's excuse? He didn't have one -- he was a terrible wrestler at that point and was unwilling to be a team player. Nick Patrick finally told the real story in 2017, confirming Bischoff's version of events is BS -- Hogan wanted a slow count, Sting wanted a fast count, and Bischoff hid somewhere in the arena in order to avoid having to make a decision. Bischoff is a con-man who I think now actually believes his own BS.
Shut the fuck up you weren't there so you don't know what happen or who's fault it was. Your just another Hulk Hogan ass kissers