I Said Nadu Was the Hogaak of MH3, but I Was Wrong...
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- Опубликовано: 8 фев 2025
- The results of Pro Tour Modern Horizons 3 are in and now it's clear that Nadu, Winged Wisdom isn't the Hogaak of Modern Horizons 3 because it's even better.
Today's video is brought to you by Card Kingdom. You can pick up some Magic: the Gathering cards (and help support the show) at www.cardkingdo...
#MTG #magicthegathering #mtgmodern #mtgmh3
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The problem is that targeting Nadu with a ban will trigger its ability and just generate more value.
😂 winning comment 🎉
ok listen what if instead we CHOOSE to ban him, then we can get around the trigger
@@talamran7499 you have to word it Target mtg Format sacrifices all Nadu from inclusion XD
Bannings don't target. They work like clones.
just gotta play that council's judgment
I think LSV said it best. “Triggers twice a turn is the fakest line of text I’ve ever seen”
I think LSP said it better, 'Oh my glob.'
I would argue the the Wise part is the biggest lie.
there was nothing wise below the name
it looks like a misprint and they were "oh my bad, now it's printed, let's say it's the real text"
@@kidoriam-1856 Look like it was on purpose to me. The card scream "pushed" at every level. The land should enter tapped, it shouldn't be twice for each creature but twice globally, it shouldn't be twice and it shouldn't trigger on abilities.
That last one is specially obvious to me that it was intentional since I have been trying to find something to combo shaku for a long time now. Stuff that trigger off abilities is so rare. I bought 4 of them back when aether revolt came out hoping to do something with crackdown construct.
@@drinjj honestly, I'd sell Shuko soon, and buy it back when the price drops post-Nadu ban
Wizards scrambling right now. They are frantically writing the ban announcement for . . . Shuko.
We gonna get Shuko, then Lightning Greaves, then Umbral Mantle, then Grafted Wargear banned in a row for this one.
And when we run out of 0 mana equips we'll get all the 1 mana equips banned.
And when we run out of those Wizards will ban Nadu declaring that it's "restricting future design for equipments"
It solves the problem. Forcing it to use the il-kor makes the deck way worse.
@@RainbowRandolflightening greaves enters the chat
@@RainbowRandolf I wonder how Bloodthorn Flail would function, considering how much card advantage Nadu generates it might be a suitable option too. It has brick potential, sure, but it doesn't seem that high.
Even if they banned literally everything that infinitely combos with it, wouldn't it still be disgusting even in a value list with some softer synergies?
"Play more removal"
Sure, target the bird that triggers the bird to get the untapped blue land to spell pierce the removal. It'll totally work...(/sarcasm)
Yeah, as if half of Modern decks' spells weren't removal already LMAO
The only valid answers to Nadu are counterspells. Too bad the LOTR set gave it a mana dork that makes it so it cannot be countered
In Commander I am a burn player. I can't even turn this bird into KFC without it going off.
Fury should come back
@@phatkaveh60 Given the length of time from when products are developed to when they're released, I wonder if they expected Fury to still be in the format...
Commander cards again!
Welcome to Bird Summer
Hot Bird Summer, bayybeee
Right everyone was saying eldarazi summer including wotc but it's the summer of no bolt bird
Bird up!
@@coriandyr boltproof bird*
Bird Flu Summer
The only answer is to unban hogaak so that there's a deck powerful enough to compete lmao
Honestly that'd be awesome to watch.
Remember, if you fight fire with fire, all you get is a bigger fire.
can't you just drop hogaak into nadu?
There's enough bullshit in this format. Let's not do that.
Unban Hogaak to fight the Bird, then unban Eye of Ugin to fight Hogaak and then unban Twin to fight Eye of Ugin, and then Modern will finally be at peace.
Bant Nadu was 20.2% of the meta, but 4c Nadu, which is essentially the same deck, was another 5.3%. Splitting it up into two archetypes feels like a trick to hide that it was actually over a quarter of the field.
Was thinking the same thing. in all it was about 26% of the meta..... absolutely stupid lol
It is relevant since the 2 decks did have different win rates. But yeah you gotta talk about both decks together for sure
WOTC did the same with Murktide in Legacy a while back when people were worried about it being 25% of the meta. Expressive Iteration was wayy too pushed
I think it matters to some extent, both decks performed well, but the win rate for Bant was almost 5% higher than 4C.
@@MTGGoldfish True, but I feel a lot of peoples problem isn't just power level, it's how unfun the card is to play against. How long turns take, how hard it is to interact with, the nightmare that is trying to track it in paper. Even if it's win rate wasn't below average I think people would still hate it.
Simic lacks a strong mechanical identity, so Wizards decided the entity will be "stupidly overpowered"
It's a shame too. Explore is a fun mechanic. Playing lands and casting spells off the top of your library is a ton of fun. Card draw and land ramp are fun, and yet WotC can't decide...
@@jacobwiren8142because draw and ramp are the best mechanics in the game as they increase both your resources(Mana and Cards) so naturally the combination of good ramp and good draw is busted
Then that also comes with how G and U complement eachother
@@jacobwiren8142 I honestly thought Oko elking things was a super cool Simic mechanic, shame it was a +1 instead of a -1
Simic and broken three-drops, name a better duo
That why is simic unplayble all the time. It is usually the worst colour combot until they print something broken.
wizards has a whole department for making broken simic 3 drops
my favorite part of this is that nah dude isn't even mythic
@@ScornfulEg0tistnah dude 💀
@@ScornfulEg0tistI'm being that the card wouldn't have been broken if it had been named "yeadu".
That's the true wording mistake and not the "triggers twice a turn" thing.
I can name three off the top of my head
Hey, that's unfair.
Kinnan is 2 mana.
splinter twin died for less than nadu and hogaak, but we'll have to slog through possibly up to half a year of this
Twin probably wouldn’t even be a top deck now or even a “every blue red deck will run it”
Gotta sell more boxes before they axe the bird
@@Ulubai they might not even ban bird. They’ll probably think banning the enabler is the solution or try to tack on an errata saying “the ability itself triggers only twice regardless of anything that could or would trigger it further
And they banned Birthing Pod more or less because creatures were getting way too good
@@Zspear234 I don’t mind pod because it would force limited design space for etb creatures when it was in the format, now it would just be another combo enabler for more degenerate etb shit and still probably be too slow because a turn 3 pod pass is an awful turn 3 in this meta.
I'm not salty about Bridge from Below being banned. I'm salty because it has stayed banned after Faithless Looting and Hogaak also got banned.
I suspect it was long on the block for a ban because of prior dredge performances.
The worst part about the card is you have to hold up removal the whole game, and even if you kill it you're getting two for one'd
It's almost like splinter twin combo, but on steroids, and you have to wait for 10 minutes to see if they don't fizzle, and you get punished for interacting with it, and half the time they can scramble together a counter to your interaction somehow. Great design.
Did you see the 5 for one in the quarters 😂
If you can get someone to play with, it'd be neat to see Nadu vs Hogaak or Eldrazi from Eldrazi winter.
Maybe CardMarket will do a series like that.
Yeah, I'm going to try to make that video.
Channel fireball done that with hogaak back then
I don’t get why people don’t realize the newer cards will always win in this type of thing
@@GhGh-gq8ooThey really don't though.
To look at standard for an example; Memory Jar absolutely creams Copycat combo.
Sure, the overall powerlevel has grown over time, but older sets often have bigger outliers.
I think Simon Nielsen said after his win at the pro tour that this deck is stupid and that he thinks that this deck will be gone, soon. I can't think of a better way to say it.
He even said in a half joking way don't invest in copies unless you want to buy his Shuko copies 😂
Here's what gets me - Hogaak, I can understand at least the design idea that leyline of the void could counter its shenanigans, it was the obvious counterplay option, among many other theoretical options, to counteract a graveyard deck. What, pray tell, was ever the intended counterplay option against Nadu? Targeted removal is miserable, edicts don't work if the simic pile has a mana dork/dryad arbor, and board clears take too long to come online.
YoU CaN CoUNteR it xD
Plus it doesn't draw so Bowmaster, Sheoldred, and Narset do nothing but just bird watch.
Just play droll and lock bird or Maxx C. When your opponent says there’s no way that these cards are legal, it’s magic you respond asking then how is nadu legal?
Hogaak also was a kind of weird effect where it was probably hard to play test finding how powerful it would be. Nadu on its face looks broken.
@@U1TR4F0RCEBro, I am positive Nadu can beat a yugioh deck at this point
Seth straight up calling people's ban suggestions idiotic was not something I expected, but man did it get a big LOL laugh
Go read /r/ modern if you want to see idiotic discussion
He’s right.
Ban all cards first printed after 9 edition
The reason why Wotc won't ban Nadu anytime soon is hidden in the sardonic ending of this video: "Need a Nadu? Check our sponsor!" might suggest that secondary market is rampant every MH release. Now, what's easier to ban in an economic environment? A pretty much useless uncommon enabler that was revived after almost 20 years since its release and uncontrollably spiked as a result? Or a flamboyant new card that pumps the booster selling and the singletons requests?
Jitte now the second most broken equipment from kamigawa 😂😂😂
Tbf, if you’re into Legacy, you know exactly how broken Shuko can be for exactly that reason.
How shameless would they have to be to ban Shuko over Nadu? That would be so ridiculously transparent...
But of course it'll be in line with their ridiculousness so far.
Nadu at base rarity is 6 bucks.
Exactly what they did with Hogaak. Everyone knew big Ho needed to be the one that was banned, but it was from the new set so that wasn't going to happen.
PTSD for 1GU rares/mythics intensifies
I think it shows a fundamental deficiency their design teams have for creating blue green rares because this has been a recurring issue. Even last set Bonny was not fun in draft. It's most sets. 😅
Just stop buying mtg cards. Why support a company that intentionally breaks their own game? I stopped buying years ago once the power creep became obscene.
@@thengine7No one cares
Don't forget Rogue Refiner was a Uncommon 1UG that got banned in Standard. So they need a Common 3 mana simic card to complete the "cycle."
@thengine7 Whales gonna whale, big dog. FOMO. They have the money to enjoy the power of busting a cardboard nut, even for as short a period as it lasts. People like you and me will never weigh up to a fifth as much as the people who want it that bad in terms of money spent. I'm sorry to say, you and I just won't make the difference. Admittedly, I still exclusively pick up cheap singles and precons years after their release, but that only makes *me* feel better. Hasbro will milk this until the reanimated corpse of the cash cow finally rots to the point that it no longer produces milk. All we can look forward to is the day that all the prices drop like rocks at the precipitous edge, Magic's final breath, and prepare for a long and quiet night at the kitchen table, as Richard Garfield intended, coming full circle.
The Shuko/Bridge from Below comparison is spot on, but WotC is dumb/greedy, so Nadu definitely isn't getting banned until it ruins more events
I'm hoping that since shuko is obviously shit there won't even be a consideration to ban it.
Nadu combos with breathing, so if they want to ban a support piece they will have to ban our lungs. It's really the only way.
Modern, the non-rotating format that rotates.
Didn't WotC just say "Although Nadu, Winged Wisdom has raised some early concerns, it appears the Modern format has proven it has tools to fight it" in their June 24th (no)bans announcement?
And the only deck they mentioned that could fight it was the Ral storm deck because it's a turn faster. So basically, they're saying either play Nadu or Storm because if you're not playing either, Nadu will roll you, and if you're not playing Storm, Nadu will roll you. But they're sure that other archetypes will rise to challenge both.
Modern, for now, is now a 2 deck format according to WotC. Nice job.
"2 deck formats notoriously healthy for the game and totally don't result in people quitting." -Wotc Employee
Storm has terrible win percentage v the deck too
@@tr13ky13 Tell that to WotC "it's OnE tUrN fAsTeR"
Mind you no one will even play storm as they are hit by the same hate people use for Eldrazi lol. 35% win rate at the PT.
and both decks easily kill on turn 3. which is not supposed to happen in modern, it's supposed to be a turn 4 format. but i don't mind it not getting banned before the pt, I can understand that they'd want to see what happened. now, not banning it AFTER the pt would be absolutely ridiculous.
Seth correctly guessed Nadu, Phlage, and necrodominance, and even gave the counterspell a higher regard.
Everyone else doubted you on the podcast. lol I hope people upvote this so you know many people do think your takes are often pretty good!
I think I did pretty well with MH3, although I've had my share of horrible predictions, so I guess I'm due ;)
@@MTGGoldfish You still own me Tier 1 exile deck in standard with Quint and Pia! :D
"I hope Wizards realizes this too"
I hope the community realizes the Soft Rotation baloney that companies been pulling for the past 5-6 years.
Planned obsolescence but for your cards
I mean watch meta snapshot of Pro tour Nadu and Pro tour middle earth they are literally two different formats.
Compare that to standard rotation, boros loses 1 card and shelly is still there and domain loses trilands and atraxa keeps going
Just watched a modern video and the main deck had a grand total of 10 nonland cards not from modern horizons 3. 4 of those cards were Ragavan.
Just watched a modern video and the main deck had a grand total of 10 nonland cards not from modern horizons 3. 4 of those cards were Ragavan.
Well, if it’s not banned, Rhystic Studies will be eating good in a few months.
"You win yet?"
"Nah, I need another ten minutes."
"You mind if I have dinner?"
"Go ahead."
...
"You win?"
"I whiffed."
This is the big problem of Nadu.
There always was and will always be a best deck, but is a problem when the turns it takes are too damn long.
@@alfredosaint-jean9660 At least my Nadu Auras deck doesn't twiddle its thumbs up its own patookus. It wins with a roided out bird armed with Ancestral Mask and Bear Umbra.
“Nah du-de I need another ten minutes”
@@DAsrada My janky Nadu/Ivy/Rotpriest deck is going to die and it isn't even that good
Even if you whiff you still put lands into play and draw cards to attempt a win again on the next turn (and protect yourself)
The ad read of "need a Nadu?" was so great!
I expect WotC will just ban Nadu but it would be exceptionally funny if they ban Shuko.
Banning Shuko could be wise. Nadu still needs to go. horrible card design
Shuko is literal trash
They’re absolutely banning Shuko because they learned nothing from Hogaak and Bridge from Below
They will ban Shuko and Nadu's winrate will drop from 59% to 57% and wotc will be like: "See? Our banlist worked!" LMAO
@@BoltTheEmolga Pretty much this. It's funny that Seth calls out people for thinking Shuko will get the axe at 05:40, but then everything after he says, including his own doubts, basically explain why people think than.
I doubt most people who think Shuko will get banned instead of Nadu think it will solve the problem, in part because Nadu's so poorly worded it can't be solved. We're aware we're looking at another fall guy since Nadu was just printed and Shuko wasn't.
You’re absolutely right Seth.
The numbers and the data don’t lie if there ever was any doubt.
5 of the top 8 at a modern ( the most diverse format ever right? lol) pro tour is absolutely unacceptable regardless of which deck won.
We haven’t seen numbers like this at a pro tour since the gaakfather and so the bird must go.
Man, Seth really took the Bridge from Below ban personally. He seemed really mad about it every time he brought it up lol
It was one of those cases where banning Hogaak was so obvious but Wizards chose to do the less obvious thing and it turned out to be the wrong choice since they had to ban Hogaak anyway a couple months later.
This reminds me of Saheeli Rai and Felidar Servant... Why ban the cat???? To sell packs...
Bridge from below is a card tat even having a ridiculous design, it’s very easy to deal with. I was also bitter with the banning because expecting the ban Hogaak ban, I had built a Mayhem Devil deck with bloodghast and a bunch of sac B/R synergies. It was a fun deck while play testing it.
"No more half measures Waltuh"
Phlage is the Ragavan of MH3. its everywhere too and worth almost $70 already
That’s nuts and I agree, I’m just glad Phlage isn’t a commander staple like Ragavan is. Would be even more if it was relevant in EDH
@@zbronstein3901is it ? I've only seen him once in edh pod.
@@bartoszganko5290 You'd probably see him a lot more if it weren't for the price tag. I don't know if he is a staple, but getting Ragavan down on turn 1 must be pretty good in a format where people often don't deploy any sufficient defenses until turn 3 or 4.
I better sell before he goes down, I pulled 3 of him already
That actually seems like a good comparison. It is the MH3 card that seems to go in the most decks.
I just remember Maro saying Play Design had learned from their mistakes, and Modern Horizons 3 wasn't gonna warp the meta, yeah right.
Lmao
Can't wait for the Rhystic studies video like 3 years from now about the Summer of the Bird
What's insane to me, is that all you have to do is change the beginning text to: "Whenever a creature you control becomes..." and the card is very reasonable. In fact, that's how *most* cards would be worded - they kinda went out of their way to give it to all of your creatures, so clearly it was intentional. But, how could you not see the play pattern that emerges when you do it that way? Some might say that it's the result of them designing for commander, but even in commander the play pattern is undesirable! The design of the card is inherently rough, and then it's just salt in the wound that it *also* happens to be really good.
I assume they were looking at Kira, Great Glass-Spinner, but it's still such a stupid design.
The audacity to print "triggers ONLY twice per turn"
"triggers a whopping 2 times per turn"
New magic template, fk it.
Splicing that text onto all creatures instead of just on Nadu. There was no reason for that effect to be spliced, the trigger didn't even related to the creature doing the triggering nor could it be fizzled once proc'd. Clearly just done to powercreep the already pushed "twice per turn" limit.
Yes Bird is the Word. Just going to say, you have been killing it lately Saffronolive! Keep it up!
Stern and eloquent. Thank you Seth. Bonus points for quoting Churchill at em.
Nadu might be a chase rare in MH3, but there are many more chase rares than him so banning him won't reduce sales, but rather increase them - but their up-front greed to sell packs, they'll most likely ban Shuko and in result of that, less are going to play Modern and move somewhere else and pack sales might decrease slightly until they Ban Nadu.
These are my speculations.
Isn’t it only like $5? I opened one in my box I bought and when I looked online at the time it was worth shit
@@GhGh-gq8oo Huh, he have crashed. He used to trend at 17€, and now he trends at 10€... then he will surely be banned since he possesses no value.
Exactly. I've been seeing people argue that banning Nadu will cause people to open less MH3, but it's pretty obvious to me that creating a healthy meta would create more demand for the product than the chance to open a single rare card that everyone knows won't be relevant for long.
The next 1UG card they will make will be a 9/9 trample with a cast trigger to search your deck and put any number of lands into play, untapped. It also counters every spell an opponent casts and has escape 1.
MH 4 in 2027...
ward {3}
wow who knew a 3/4 for 3 with a broken ability that will always get value would be good. 0/0
Watch them do something wild like "Nadu: Restricted to 2 copies per deck" like it's Yu-Gi-Oh!
Nadu summer isn't a meme anymore lmao
Great video Seth. Love the historical perspective as someone who started playing modern in Eldrazi Winter 😂.
I got a hearthstone commercial after this video
Text should have been "Whenever ~ becomes the target of a spell or ability, ~ explores. This ability triggers only twice each turn."
WotC pumps out broken gu three-drops like clockwork
I find it amazing that no one ever points out the following.
1) Wizards prints something that is broken.
2) Players buy tons of packs to get the something that is broken, therefore making Wizards tons of money.
3) The something that is broken dominates the meta of whatever formats it is legal in.
4) Wizards bans the card, but of course, they have your money so they don't give a shit.
Seriously though, they know they're printing broken things. They're doing this on purpose.
Also, when players later say “we didn’t like the broken cards, please stop doing this”, Wizards says “The set was bought by more players than ever before, so clearly most players loved the set, maybe this set just wasn’t for you” and proceed to do it again and again. If a set sells well, they don’t care if some people didn’t like it.
I wouldn’t target Nadu with a ban if I were you. I heard that Wizards gets to draw a card or put a land into play if you do…
I remember the first day my LGS had Nadu legal for a modern event I played against it with Lantern - 3 maindeck Pithing Needles and 4 Urzas Sagas. Still couldn't stop the combo - clearly too good.
nadu just needs an erata to remove the text: "creatures you control have"
Great video, alot of Nadu vids going around discussing him but this was good, showed data
I can think of like 4 ways you could change one of Nadu's stats by 1, and it would *still* be good, but without being just strictly broken
a 4 mana 2/3 whose ability triggered, once per creature per turn, would still be pretty close to non-deterministically busted. I can't get over why he needed to be a 3/4. Like, whose idea was it that it shouldn't die to bolt? Why does it need to not die to bolt? Your combo needs to be interactive at *some* point for the game to be fun.
Or just move the (,) so you get 2 triggers in all rather than per creature
$$$
Maybe because they want to stop promoting Bolt altogether and instead promote more stronger removal options like Lighting Axe, Go for the Th@@t, Fell the Pheasant or even Solitude?
If shuko is the ban, they just play lightning greaves and *maybe* combo a turn later. Would be funny if they found out a way to work around leather armor's once a turn activation. Even with once a turn, the ward 1 on leather armor could be an interesting obstacle.
The funny thing is, as a commander player I was SUPER excited for Nadu… for about a day until I ran through the logistics and realized I will never willingly put that shit in a deck. If it was twice a turn TOTAL it would be a solid value engine.
As it currently exists it’s a stunningly unpleasant play experience that bogs down turns dramatically.
If four people each piloting Nadu all sit down at the same table together then they get game play experience they deserve.
Reminds me of Goldspan Dragon in standard. You target it, i make treasure. I use said treasure to counter your removal. GG
the issue with targeting Nadu with a banning, is the Nadu player gets to keep ramping and drawing cards :/
Terrible card design, and direction for the game in general.
Wizards won’t ban nadu until MH3 has finished selling.
absolutely nobody is buying MH3 packs to get a nadu.... you can buy them for less than the cost of a pack.
Nadu hasn't spiked at all and no one is buying MH3 sealed for it. People see the writing on the wall.
Banning Nadu would create more demand for packs, not less. Since modern would actually be in a healthier state, and thus all the other cards would be in higher demand.
@@eikumbokum that is....not how it works at all, lmao
@@profanemagic5671 reason being?
I think that people have to play Nadu even more with decks that don’t use Shuko or Chord of Calling so that they can ban Nadu immediately instead of the half-measures
Wotc won't go after nadu itself until sales drop off.
absolutely nobody is buying MH3 packs to get a nadu.... you can buy them for less than the cost of a pack.
@@joshuajordan6632 And where does the single comes from?
@@joshuajordan6632 My brother in Urza, Nadu COMES FROM packs. Someone is buying them.
@@matthewgagnon9426huh?? the commenter you're replying to said that they're not opening packs TO GET a Nadu. Not that it doesn't "come from" the packs. They're right. Why would you be hoping for a card with low value?
@@matthewgagnon9426 im talking the generic player. millions of packs were probably opened of this set already. starting from this point forward, im saying it doesnt make sense to keep nadu in the format just to sell more packs when nadu is not going to sell packs.
I have this weird idea for a janky version of Nadu. Displacer Kitten and Eternal Witness. Mishra's Bauble and Tormod's Crypt. The zero cost artifacts trigger kitten who bounces Witness. This triggers the Nadu ability and Witness returns a zero cost to hand. Sac the zero you just cast then cast the one you returned to loop. I think the best wincon for this is mill. Crabs and Tutelage. Build it oversized to keep from milling yourself out with Bauble and include counter spells to stall long enough to get going and protect stuff once you get things assembled. It might be hard to pull off, but imagine the salt.
That’s what just stumps me about Nadu. It’s so obviously busted. I have a horrible mind for the meta game and even I can see how broken that effect is.
I know with most cards it’s easy to underestimate how strong an effect is but this just seems so negligent.
It wasn't underestimated, it's supposed to be broken.
The problem is that Magic is two things, a game, and a product.
For Magic the game, stuff like Nadu, Hogaak, Smugglers Copter, Oko, etc are all actually terrible, they ruin balance and make the game completely un-fun.
But for Magic the product... those are literally the best thing you can do, chase rares that are so powerful that you are borderline obligated to run out and buy 4 if you want to be able to play the game at your FNM without being embarassed.
Like 99% of the problems in our society, the problems aren't weird mistakes that someone made because they don't know better, they're intentional choices designed to maximize profit for a handful of already extremely rich people at the expense of everyone and everything else.
I know "Magic is dying" has been a meme for as long as magic has existed, but I genuinely worry about the course we're on, and how long it can really be sustainable.
Based anti capitalism rant and true
My cynical mind says that Wizards somehow forgot about Shuko, despite the first question you ask upon seeing Nadu is "How can I trigger this for free as often as I want?"
@@jeffe2267it's pretty much impossible for me to see that given that they added the "only twice per turn" specifically to stop it from going literally infinite and instead making it just pseudo infinite.
@@jeffe2267 Even without Shuko, there's ways to do this. And this isn't the first time that such decks have existed. Cephalid Breakfast is a thing. Nadu's text was an obvious attempt to address exactly that... except the person doing it was an idiot and didn't realize that a fraction of infinity is still a very high number.
As for the sustainability of print broken stuff that should obviously be banned, let it rip the format, ban it, then print more broken stuff model, that depends on the intelligence of the community. There are others that have done this model coughyugiohcough and their player bases are dumb enough to stick around in sufficient enough numbers that satisfy the company. We'll see how dumb mtg players are, I suppose.
That being said, this method is the maximize profits for the quarter at the cost of the future model which is an uncomfortably common one. Not good business and no one who starts a business that way will be in business for long. It is a model for milking something that already exists as they run it into the ground. Businesses are built on the opposite mentality.
Looks like it’s time to re-ban stoneforge mystic.
I dunno if they will ban it yet, they still need to move those MH3 boxes.
absolutely nobody is buying MH3 packs to get a nadu.... you can buy them for less than the cost of a pack.
The difference between Gaak and The Bird is that, after MH1, people still enjoyed playing Modern a little, and there was a competitive scene worth saving.
The Bird is Wizards pulling an Old Yeller on the format.
Gaak was mh1
@@chadmrrsn My mistake, I forgot which one was the Gaak and which was the Monkey.
As much as people hate on the only once per turn clause in some cards, at least it is very intuitive to think about and track. Whoever came up with the twice per turn clause feels like somebody who has only played in a digital card format cause tracking that shit with a large board on paper just feels mind-numbingly tedious.
Contrary to the One Ring, they don't need Nadu to sell MH3 packs so I have no doubt they'll ban it.
It's arguable that banning Springheart Nantuko cripples the consistency of the combo's true engine. That being said, I'd still like to know your thoughts on just unbanning everything and moving towards a Restricted List like Timeless.
I think there are two issues with banning Nantuko. The first is that I think Scute Swarm is a good enough replacement (although worse since it costs and extra mana). Second, and maybe more importantly, I think that Wizards probably wants to be able to print "landfall: make a token" creatures in the future, and if Nadu is around they'll have to to think very hard about printing anything like that in the future.
@MTGGoldfish aha, ye Olde Birthing Pod argument. It makes sense here though, I suppose. Scute Swarm does a cute enough Nantuko impression that the deck still functions. But that brings me back to the second part of my question: How do we feel about unbanning everything and moving towards a Restricted List in Modern? It made sense to police the format as the "Turn 4" format back in its infancy sixteen years ago. But power creep has come a long way and Modern is pushing as hard as it can to be "Legacy-Lite" despite all these bannings. Do you think it'd be healthier for the format (and the players) to embrace the degeneracy to some extent and let all the broken things thrive (again, to some extent) for the sake of faith in brand? I gotta say a format where you can play at least one of any given card printed in the last 21 years sounds fun, to me. I'd rather push the boundaries and see where the dust settles (maybe we have to outright ban a thing or two again depending,) than to continue down this road of piling on broken things every Horizons set only to have to peel away at the broken format with bans because we're chasing the dream of a format long lost to time.
@@grin_of_grimmsnarl1333That's the thing, you're proposing Vintage. It already is a thing..
@monstercarreno except I'm not proposing Vintage? Haven't played Timeless, huh? Vintage is unplayable for the vast majority of Modern day players. Legacy too. We can sit here and argue about the Reserved List if you like but that doesn't change the fact that it's killed those formats. Modern is the next most "Eternal" format and the only one they can reliably rotate and change otherwise with fresh printings AND reprints. That's a huge difference in terms of keeping the format openly available to players.
There's nothing wrong with letting the powerful cards play if we let ALL of the powerful cards play. Sure, I'm offering a Vintage-like structure. But it's not as though my suggestion is unprecedented 🤷♂️ is the end game idea that we as players can't handle a more skill intensive, fast paced and mature format? Or that we should be purposefully catering to players that can't even in the format every set. Isn't Pioneer now what Modern was in its infancy? Why shouldn't the format change to accommodate all these things?
I can't wait for the @RhysticStudies documentary in about 3 years.
when nadu gets banned does it give me a nadu trigger?
No, the banhammer doesn’t target, it’s a “choose” effect.
Hogaak is still better because "It was the season of the 'gaak" is a banger of a line
If I had a nickel for every 1GU bomb that's been problematic in Modern, I'd have three nickels, which isn't a lot but it's weird that it happened thrice
Honorable mention to Rogue Refiner, which was banned in standard.
I think Wizards forgot the line of text that says "becomes the target of a spell or ability your opponent controls"
Didn't Richard predict that it would suck in Modern? 😅
he has terrible takes all the time so who's surprised?
He calls STP a bad card.
i think the day 1 meta of Nadu was actually 26%, it's just split between Bant and 4-colour variants
I wonder why people don’t try Suppression Field in modern (1W Enchantment, activated abilities cost 2 more). It’s a generic stax piece on all fetches, destroys nadu’s infinite, taxes removal hate that would hit it (boseiju, haywire mite), and also hates on plenty of other random things like planeswalkers and that island cycler. I’m not sure what deck would play it… maybe a mono white stax deck could be born? I’d love to hear people’s thoughts!
its the same reason for why not try void against hogaak. having to maindeck a bunch of hate for 1 deck is SO bad for the format
Necrodominance is a triggered ability other than old necro
@@JT-91 I’m not saying Nadu shouldn’t be banned or anything. Assuming she stays legal, I’m also trying to make the point that I think suppression field is generically good in the meta. It’s excellent against nadu, and still very good against other decks in the meta. But I’d love to hear others opinions, because I don’t actually play modern lol.
@@lugvantrug5967 LMAO you’re right. I’ll edit my post. I guess I should read the card and not assume it’s necropotence lol
Good sideboard card and maybe even maindeck but aside from domain zoo or a stax deck I don't see a lot of decks able to play this card. But maybe it's strong enought and ppl will have to play this card or others similar hate maindeck like in hogaak summer lol.
I still wonder if they put the quotation marks on the wrong line.
@mtggoldfish It's never a good sign when the finals are a mirror match. I watched it this morning and it was mostly on who drew the combo pieces
It wasn't just the finals, but semi-finals were mirrors too. It was rough.
@@MTGGoldfishI fell back asleep after waking up early to watch 🤦♂️
@@MTGGoldfish I remember when modern finals were something epic to watch and look forward to.
Great video Seth. I 100% agree with your takes.
Until WotC bans the bird, counter the bird. Do not let the bird hit the table
Easier said then done when they run a playset of Mana dorks that have a fucking cavern of souls for any legendary card. Waste your removal on the halfling if you want, then they just chord for Nadu over you. It's too good for the format, and quickly becoming the new Paradox engine in commander.
@@SCADU-MAXXING I've played against 3 commander games with this stupid bird and each one took a century
@cherry9787 I think it's too good for the game IMO it's basically if Thrasios was a Power 9 card. Wait until Shivam or one of his casual buddies run into Nadu solitaire at a command fest or something. It will be banned like Paradox engine 😆
3rd option oracle errata Nadu to make the effect q hard twice per turn like it seemed to be intended too but got past rnd through a error.
Nad ME??? No no no... naDU
du hast
Could have been a fun value version of Kira Great Glass Spinner. But they had to way overdo it
I'm gonna riot if Suko is banned instead of Nadu. #JusticeForBridgeFromBelow
Wizards could just errata Nadu’s text removing “Creatures you control have.” This would make Nadu the only target and only trigger twice per turn.
ruined this weekend pro tour :(
I agree. It should’ve been a celebration of the format and all the variety that MH can bring to it and instead we get birds.
Yes indeed, I couldn't watch the last day, it was too boring after 1h of nadu mirrors.
Watching the pro tour was the most lame and uninteresting tournament coverage I've ever seen in my life. They could have at least showcased other games that weren't Nadu until day 2. Watching the Nadu mirror today was fucking stupid, especially when Javier got duped out of a win by Simon.
It was so miserable to watch there was so much work by WOTC to give tools to improve other existing modern decks but this overshadowed all of that work if they don't ban Nadu.
@@apotaz3353 I woke up early and then fell back asleep because it just wasn't interesting or dynamic. Solitaire solo play.
This will make a neat rustic study video in a few years
lol, indeed
Wizard's won't ban the bird because the deck is unplayable on MTGO
Db owns mtgo. So highly doubt
Such an inspiring defense of a beloved format
Wow Seth sure can talk fast 😂😂
My guy wrote a speech for this he be reading off a teleprompter
What’s nuts to me is that it seems like they intended this play pattern by shoving nantuko in the same set. How could they not see how broken this was? Tin foil hat is telling me this is a fun corpo directive to help sell packs or something because I’m having a hard time believing that the design team could be so incompetent.
I don't. The design team has shown their incompetence time and time again.
Experiment with Esper/Obscura. High Noon and Teferi, Time Raveler take care of Ruby Storm while Unmoored Ego takes care of Nadu (unless on the battlefield)--if they don't have any copies of Nadu in their deck, what do they have left? Then Ritual of Soot to clean up any remaining creatures. Just a thought experiment.
What I hate the most about Nadu is that everything else in the new set is awesome and then this motherfucking bird is there to ruin everything
The bird "may"save us from the dread of grief.
Not 1 person on the planet ever pronounced this card "HOG - GAK". Actually hilarious to hear it said this way.
Ho-Jake
he does it on purpose for engagement.
There’s poketubers who purposely say pokemon names deadpan in the most ridiculous ways as well to drive engagement
@@GhGh-gq8oo Damn, I got got I guess. Makes sense. People are starting to pretend to go along with the crowd all the time to get ahead. Guess I'll just pack up my sub and go home.
it's even worse, as he pronounces the "o" as an "a" for no reason at all, lmao
I really want to use nadu but not in that way...many may disagree with me but I really think shuko is what really makes nadu shine...Yes, nadu is really strong even without shuko (I'm biased bc I literally pulled 3 from packs and I really want to use them) but I feel like shuko out of the equation slows the combo down quite a bit...infect kinda died but nadu has been really helping my modern infect deck with card advantage and ramp (I'm not using shuko) and it's not too overwhelming from my play testing and experience
Of course there are other ways to utilize nadu in other decks is the problem even without shuko so I get it...like I said I'm being a bit salty-biased lol
Also, if nadu gets banned (decently high chance it will) I think I might have to retire my infect deck bc it just has been underperforming with the current meta 😢
With all that said, but would banning shuko actually be okay? Say shuko is banned. Banning shuko will make lightning greaves the next "shuko." Greaves is one more to cast and it can't be tutored by using Urza's Saga, which will disrupt the consistency. Idk, maybe I'm missing something (besides nadu itself being strong) but isn't this actually an okay idea?
Honestly the best measure would be to just straight up Errata Nadu. Just full on drop the "Creatures you control have." for a "Whenever a creature you control is." Keep the twice per turn limit, and bam Nadu goes from being genuinely game breaking to just strong.
Yeah, erra6ting it would solve it, they just normally don't do that.
just take away that the triggered effect triggers on abilities
I will never understand ppl who suggest errata, from my point of view atleast, it's the worst possible way to deal with a problematic card. It's already awkward with the companion errata and they had to ban lurrus and yorion anyway. If it's too good to the point where you have to errata a card, you might as well ban it.
While Alchemy might get something like this, I think it would be extremely unlikely that they would do that for the actually Nadu. Magic is not a digital-only product and WotC really doesn't want to have paper cards that don't do what they say on them.
Functional power-level erratas have happened extremely rarely. Companions got 'em, but that was for the mechanic itself so the rules text on Lurrus, Yorion, etc are still correct (even if the reminder text is wrong).
The other times were between 1996 and 2008 -- and the erratas in 2008 were just undoing all of the functional power-level erratas that had happened over the years and instead returning the cards to their original function as close as possible. If that resulted in powerful cards (like Time Vault ping-ponging between "worthless" to "instant win-con"), then they just banned or restricted them as needed. It was better than having a new functional errata on the same cards over and over again every few years for a decade.
@@MTGGoldfish not only that they've done podcasts episodes and articles about why they stopped doing power level errata. There isn't a set mechanic to change like companions so this isn't even on the menu by the very philosophy of how they think about the game.
Storm Crow is still better
It can be pitched to F-wait so can Nadu
It can Fly-wait so can Nadu
Bird? Nadu.
F
I definitely think part of the reason WotC tends to avoid banning brand new cards is to keep people interested in buying packs. The Gaak ban felt like they were trying to stem the bleeding while still pushing the set until it was abundantly clear they had to do something more extreme. While I think the idea of banning Chord of Calling and Shuko are a bit much, I doubt that WotC is going to outright ban Nadu this early into the set being released. Realistically, they'll probably do something like adding an errata to it where it only triggers once a turn instead of twice or something like that, where it's still technically playable, but less good. Otherwise, I can see them targeting Springheart in a similar way (adding a once per turn errata to the triggered ability). Is it going to be enough? I doubt it, just stems the bleeding a bit.
absolutely nobody is buying MH3 packs to get a nadu.... you can buy them for less than the cost of a pack.
WOTC avoid errata whenever possible. Either Nadu will get the axe or the problem will not be solved.
When has there aver been an errata of a single card for power level reasons in paper? Some cards get them because they don't work, sure. For companions, the whole mechanic was altered because it was too strong. I cannot remember a paper mtg card being changed because it was too strong. That seems entirely like an Arena thing.
Im happy to see my thoughts on peoples ban takes resonate