Nothing shows how crazy Urza's block was than the fact that the Academy deck, the Memory Jar deck, and the Yawgmoth's Bargain decks never got to play against each other, despite all three using cards that came out in back to back to back sets
Craziest thing about companion is someone found an old Rosewater blog post from 2010s where he basically described the mechanic and described how the playtesters basically said to him “wtf? This completely breaks the game.”
Actually, it wasn’t that it completely breaks the game, but according to the testers, it led to the most unfun games they’ve played of magic since it removed variance from the game and didn’t felt like they were playing magic. The proto companion mechanic that they were play testing were weaker than normal cards and replaced a card from their starting hand and yet, that was their comment on it
There's a reason that Commander, which is essentially proto-companion only even stronger (commander damage, returning to the command zone, eminence, more lax deck building restrictions) is played in a 100 card singleton deck. For a subset of really dedicated magic players however, the companion problem was *definitely* a matter of power level and not variance. Higher level competitive players and especially eternal format competitive players enjoy a much more static metagame with more consistent decks. I personally think MaRo is right about variance but it's clear that the lack of variance wasn't the problem with companion.
As a note to the companion mechanic in commander: Companions do not count towards the 100 card restriction as they exist outside of the game. Functionally, such decks are 101 card decks.
I remember doing a sealed tournament for a friend’s birthday and I got Omnath and I was so excited and won all my games, just for it to be banned the next day and the price drop a ton. Still a super fun card to play
I still love listening to WOTC staff explain how they didn't think Oko's +1 would be used as removal, especially given that it's closest approximation is Beast Within, which is essentially used exclusively as removal. The total level of incompetence at that company is astounding.
i would like to see one ring be first restricted card in modern. It makes drawback from burden counters real and fits with the one ring being only one.
Yeah, I have it in a couple commander deck lists, but aside from the one I pulled in my group's draft, I am holding off getting the others to see if it gets banned. Restricting it would make more sense, but only Vintage restricts so I imagine it gets banned in everything but Vintage and Commander and restricted in Vintage.
Restricted can just end up with a format where you have a dozen must-play 1ofs, basically like vintage. Not a way to go even if fits the card thematically so well.
Apparently. I guess he must have also thought that the week before the ban list updated would be a good time to make a video about bannings. Great minds think alike, as they say ;)
1 quick correction. Scourge was released May 26, 2003, and Mind's Desire was restricted in Vintage in a special announcement right before release (I want to say May 15th or 16th, because I remember it was right before the weekend, but over a week before release, but can't find the article ). The regular B/R announcement was scheduled for June 1st, which then formally added it ss restricted in Vintage/type 1, and banned in Legacy/type 1.5. That's why Mind's Desire is known as the first preemptive ban.
You totally missed the EMERGENCY BAN 2 WEEK AFTER RELEASE INITIATIVE multiccard bannings in Pauper! 😢 This one easily makes it into the top 5! With format warping turbo initative turn 1 game ending combos banned....whats left is now slowed to an absolute earliest T2-3 today. And one of the remaining cards from the set remained/remains on watchlists.
@@g.ganderson7415 In paper they were mostly fine because the paper meta is usually behind the MTGO meta and slower to be independant, but once the MTGO players got ahold of it and it was publishing something like 80% of the meta they emergency banned it within 2 weeks of it hitting MTGO. As strange as it is, it didn't hit the majority of paper lists till AFTER it got into MTGO lists first. Likely the "mtggoldfish effect" tbh.
Not quite. Oko was banned before Uro was released, and Uro/Chariot weren’t played in the same decks. (Ironically, Chariot didn’t see much play in general until after rotation)
The word release is defined as the date a card could legally be played in tounaments so the ban for memory jar was made before the card could legally be played. So Memory Jar was banned before it could be played also known as a pre-ban.
Actually Lutri isn't the only card to get a ban before it was printed. Cards with the conspiracy card type were banned from all constructed formats before they were printed.
That is different-it was a Limited/draft component-and unusable because they all involved the phrase like “when you draft-“ Companion was never to be a strictly limited/draft mechanic.
@@thomaskiser3886 Not all of them say "when you draft". For example, Backup Plan. Also just cause a card references drafting doesn't mean it gets an autoban for constructed play. Archdemon of Paliano is constructed playable for example. But yes, Conspiracies were never intended for constructed play.
Yeah, I didn't count those because they don't really feel like real cards, but maybe I should have. Technically they do show up on the official ban list.
And the conspiracy cards aren't alone. As I mentioned in my own comment: they released Timmerian Fiends (an *ANTE* card) a full year and a half after the whole Ante effect was put on the banlist.
@@faceoctopus4571 sooo you agree they are different since the set and the conspiracy draft mechanics were developed for limited and not intended for constructed ever…even though you pointed out that one nitpick? Lol. They were developed with no intention where all these other caress were in standard and all other formats or intended to be…which makes them different. We may as well through all the unglued cards on the list then…which would be silly!
I had someone in my area who would not budge on the idea that lutri shouldn't be banned in commander, because the card itself was not broken. Completely missing the point that even if it were a vanilla it would be an auto include in every deck with its colors because it has litterally no opprotunity cost, and in fact would be objectively worse to not have. Yet alone actually having an impactful ability that just about any deck can make use of
I can remember Limited Resources being 'banned' from limited when me and some friends stopped in for open drafts. They raised their hand for a judge, and just swapped the whole pack out if that was the rare.
The play patterns. Mono w was already one of the best archetypes and it didn't need a lot of mana. If you don't have an answer to LR in your deck it's a scoop. Lots of tappers in white already, so if you sat through a game of that you'd want to play another game instead. Draw a card for turn, you can't play a land, discard for hand size and pass until opponent loses from a bunch of 2 and 1 power creatures and etc. It was better just to swap in the new pack and draft without that card. Read that card. At best case it makes it so nobody else can play magic. It was pretty much boosting if you got LR as the rare. There isn't much else on rate that can compete or even answer that card for card, mana for mana the turn it comes out in the decks that can play it, which is anything with the best color, white.
As an otter enjoyer, i wish lutri wasn't banned, just had a restriction that said "can't be used as a companion in commander" or something. There's only like 3 otters in the game 😭
I still swear I remember Memory Jar being announced as getting banned during the pre-release of that set, if not the day of release. Might not have been officially banned but was on the chopping block.
12:43 Actually, it would still be 100 cards, Lutri starts in the Companion zone which is a lot like a sideboard, it's 99 cards+Commander+Companion. (Or 98 in case of partners/Backgrounds)
The last part about lutri is wrong: the deck would still have 100 cards, but all UR+ decks able to play Lutri would have an additional free card (and also quite powerful)
He was not wrong in what he was saying. In a 100 card format, if the 1 card is in every deck of its colors, then when building those decks you are only choosing the other 99, since the 1 is always there
Wow this brought me back. I played Magic from Revised in '93. During combo winter I sold all my cards and bought Warhammer models. Didn't come back till RTR, like 13 years later.
I'm not a fan of rule zero conversations beyond general power level, but I think that, in this case, you should just ask your pod or playgroup if it's ok to run Lutri. Commander is so messed up (exactly why I love it,) that if someone asks, can I run this or that, or if I can use these two as partners even though they don't have it, I'll just say go ahead! I would even tell to play companion as it's written on the card.
@@jussikivela1914 I used to be part of a group that was super hardcore on tournament rulings even if casual that made me rather glad I no longer live in the same state as them anymore.
@@Sxcheschka Fortunately my playgroup is really relaxed and has some really inventive players. One player in particular has had these fun brews, like mono white Bruna and Gisela partners, mono red Brothers Yamazaki partners and an insane Kitsune mystic/Autumn-Tail, Kitsune sage auras build.
@@jussikivela1914 See, I've always wanted to do The Brothers Yamazaki as they are the og partner commanders, and I'm still a little salty to this day about it, but nope those don't have the official rulings to play with those in tournament play so F you basically. I've also wanted to do silly Un-set stuff as you are never really able to play with those cards, but because that playgroup really only cared about insane efficiency decks and not stupid silly fun, they were like, well what's stopping me from using the overpowered cards, but it isn't about being overpowered, it's about having fun.
How long had it been out before Modern was made, though? (Actual question, don't know the answer off hand.) The list was for how soon a card was banned after it was first printed.
@@Sientir Well, modern was made official the day New Phyrexia was released and it was banned during that week... just enough time for me to get my 4 goddamn copies.
Can you do one about cards that stayed legal for longer than they should have, such as the Saheeli Rai Felidar Sovereign combo that dodged two banning periods in standard?
These kinds of videos are so awesome. I love them! I have been thinking of ways to find the most expensive cards for every "block". I was wondering if you could scrape data from eBay or other online resale sites for years that didn't have a good data?
Wait. No mention of Timmerian Fiends? A card banned 21 months before it was even released? For context: no. Lutri was not the only card to be pre-banned. In January 1994, with the creation of the DCI Banned/Restricted list, all cards that had Ante effects were banned from play. Towards the end of the next year - October 1995, Homelands was released with Timmeian Fiends... an Ante card. (There are a few other Ante Cards released after the mechanic was banned - Bronze Tablet in Antiquities, Rebirth in Legends, Amulet of Quoz in Ice Age) - the Fiends are just the most pronounced one, being the last card ever printed with the mechanic.
I still do use it in some decks. It is definitely seeing less use than before probably because it is way much easier to make wide powerful board. Still I won't dare to call Maze a "bad" card like in a video. Rather not anyhow broken to ban it in a first place xD. I suppose at least from a perspective of modern meta
I love how people are going cross eyed screaming BAN THE ONE RING!!!! And you either don't play modern or didn't see how the one ring worked in the pro tour. If anything Dauthi Voidwalker is more busted than the one ring.
Ironically enough I'm breaking ivory tower on arena with reliquary tower so i can just have a giant grip of cards and negate the life loss from The One Ring. Haha
bannings didnt happen with each set release but on the 20th every end of quater beeing effective on the first day of the next month. sets becoming legal only the first the following month was a long time rule when we couldnt all preorder stuff from the internet. IIRC to be banned 6 days after release Minds Desire was announced to be banned and restricted before it was even released. so we are actually tied here. since Scourge was relese on the 26 and became legal the following 1s of the month. and therefore also illegal to use Mind's Desire on the same day.
Would Alter reality be able to target Llawan, Cephalid Empress as it was being cast, to change the color words on it? Or would it only be able to target the creature after it was cast?
Fluctuator was banned so fast we did not even see it coming. Urza's Saga came out Make Fluctuating Death deck. Played it once in a Local match was banned the next week before a PT Qualifier. You only needed 3 cards in hand to win Fluctuator, a swamp, a Dark Rit and all the rest of the cards cycled. Everything cost 2 to cycle so turn one play swamp cast Dark Rit Cast Fluctuator cycle until you get 2 more Dark Rits and Living Death cast the rits cast LD win.
The point where I felt Oko crossed the line was this one 5-0 Red Deck Wins deck I saw. Bog standard Red Deck Wins deck... that splashed _both blue and green_ to run Oko.
Actually, it's impossible to play Yorion as a companion in commander. Its deckbuilding restriction states "Your starting deck contains at least twenty cards more than the *minimum deck size*", that last part is important because it doesn't state the deck size, eg 60 or 100, so the restriction works differently depending on the minimum deck size in the format you're playing. So in 40 card formats you need at least 60 for Yorion, in 60 card formats 80, and in 100 card formats you'd need 120. The problem is, in commander you deck has to be *exactly* 100 cards, no more, so it's impossible to meet Yorion's companion requirement.
Yorion isn't banned, it just doesn't work under the rules of the format since you have to play exactly 100 cards so there's no way to legally meet its restriction in Commander.
Tolarian Academy :( i found it out in the wild for $20 hoping i could use it...didnt know it was banned until i got home and found out i run a few artifact decks
Maybe you can do one a video on card/deck ruining rule changes. RIP Brain in a Jar. (Honestly that rule change was completely called for for confusion reasons, but WotC should have done it BEFORE a cool combo was built around that cute interaction).
After Lotr is done with its print run, there will never be another The One Ring printed ever again. I'd say it's pretty safe to keep ahold of if you're able to
Also, minor mistake, Companions are a 101st card to a deck. So saying Lutri decks would be 99 cards plus Lutri is not correct. However, the card is rightfully banned either way.
Did everyone forget about Rampaging Ferocidon? If I remember correctly it was banned before it entered standard but was later unbanned. Should still count for a list like this though.
oko being banned in 45 days is what makes the mini ban window especially suspect. they cite oko as an example of a card that is clearly way too powerful, and that's when they'll use the emergency mini ban window... but even he was banned after much more time than fits in the mini ban window.
Funny he says Ivory Tower doesn't see play anywhere. It was a key piece of the most powerful deck in Premodern but ironically just got nerfed because Land Tax got banned.
Me and my friend were talking about tron the other day, and I asked what big spells were played before Karn Liberated / Eldrazis. I still have no idea. Lol.
Potentially a blind spot, similar to what happened with Gotcha from Unhinged. Because designers know how they intended a card to be played (or their game in general), they have a tendency to play with it as they intended, which can result in them overlooking stuff that seems obvious in retrospect. The same kind of thing happened with Skullclamp, where they changed it from giving +1/+1 to +1/-1 to weaken the card, overlooking the interaction with X/1s. Design is hard, and it's easy to tunnel vision in all kinds of ways when doing it. They might catch themselves or break out of that tunnel vision the vast majority of the time, but they will still miss stuff on rare occasions. Remember, too, that there are simply far fewer designers than their are players; we have the advantage when it comes to seeing all possible ways a card can be used.
As long as a commander deck has to have exactly 100 cards, no. URx decks shouldn’t get a free 101st card. If it became 100 card minimum, it can absolutely come off the ban list. Lutri’s banning is not about power level
I have one (almost) Cedh deck and I always ask to rule 0 lutri in if it's part of the 99 and not a companion; I have a swap out card if not. He just adds some consistency as a 2nd dualcaster mage.
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
Nothing shows how crazy Urza's block was than the fact that the Academy deck, the Memory Jar deck, and the Yawgmoth's Bargain decks never got to play against each other, despite all three using cards that came out in back to back to back sets
Wow...yeah that is outrageous.
crossbanlist magic formats when?
Craziest thing about companion is someone found an old Rosewater blog post from 2010s where he basically described the mechanic and described how the playtesters basically said to him “wtf? This completely breaks the game.”
Imagine what could have been at that time... being able to always have an Emrakul or Jin-Gitaxias...
Actually, it wasn’t that it completely breaks the game, but according to the testers, it led to the most unfun games they’ve played of magic since it removed variance from the game and didn’t felt like they were playing magic.
The proto companion mechanic that they were play testing were weaker than normal cards and replaced a card from their starting hand and yet, that was their comment on it
"variance is the lifeblood of the game..."
There's a reason that Commander, which is essentially proto-companion only even stronger (commander damage, returning to the command zone, eminence, more lax deck building restrictions) is played in a 100 card singleton deck.
For a subset of really dedicated magic players however, the companion problem was *definitely* a matter of power level and not variance. Higher level competitive players and especially eternal format competitive players enjoy a much more static metagame with more consistent decks. I personally think MaRo is right about variance but it's clear that the lack of variance wasn't the problem with companion.
Yep they tested that similar mechanic around tempest.
(19:39) Aw, I was hoping you'd show "-14 days" for Lutri like Nizzahon did.
As a note to the companion mechanic in commander: Companions do not count towards the 100 card restriction as they exist outside of the game. Functionally, such decks are 101 card decks.
"Even today with 22 years of power creep, it's still considered to be so broken that it remains on the ban list."
Well that aged *perfectly.*
I remember doing a sealed tournament for a friend’s birthday and I got Omnath and I was so excited and won all my games, just for it to be banned the next day and the price drop a ton. Still a super fun card to play
Thanks for featuring BoshNRoll for your underworld breach example. Dude is a phenomenal legacy player.
He's helped me suck way less with breakfast
Came here faster than lutris banning
Edh bans are the laughing stock
That's what she said
🗿
Blink and ya missed it
The fuck is a lutris?
I swear I just watched this video a few days ago on Nizzahon's channel 🤔
Me too! 😂
I still love listening to WOTC staff explain how they didn't think Oko's +1 would be used as removal, especially given that it's closest approximation is Beast Within, which is essentially used exclusively as removal. The total level of incompetence at that company is astounding.
i would like to see one ring be first restricted card in modern. It makes drawback from burden counters real and fits with the one ring being only one.
Yeah, I have it in a couple commander deck lists, but aside from the one I pulled in my group's draft, I am holding off getting the others to see if it gets banned. Restricting it would make more sense, but only Vintage restricts so I imagine it gets banned in everything but Vintage and Commander and restricted in Vintage.
Horrible idea that introduces too much randomness in games
Sorry bro. That thing is getting banned
Restricted can just end up with a format where you have a dozen must-play 1ofs, basically like vintage. Not a way to go even if fits the card thematically so well.
flavor is the worst possible argument to make for a restriction or banning.
Didn't Nizzahon make this video just a few days ago? I get wanting to give your own take on it, but figured you'd wait at least a week
He probably didn't realize. Funny coincidence
Apparently. I guess he must have also thought that the week before the ban list updated would be a good time to make a video about bannings. Great minds think alike, as they say ;)
1 quick correction. Scourge was released May 26, 2003, and Mind's Desire was restricted in Vintage in a special announcement right before release (I want to say May 15th or 16th, because I remember it was right before the weekend, but over a week before release, but can't find the article ). The regular B/R announcement was scheduled for June 1st, which then formally added it ss restricted in Vintage/type 1, and banned in Legacy/type 1.5.
That's why Mind's Desire is known as the first preemptive ban.
I remember reading it in scry or inquest at the time.
WotC in yesterday's B&R announcement even mentioned it was the fastest ban in history.
I have arrived from the future, the Mind’s Desire section is pretty funny now
Didn't Nizzahon just release this video?
I think it's just coincidence
Lurrus breaks its own deckbuilding restriction, thats always bothered me.
Lol this is gonna bug me to the end of time now too. Thanks...
Part of why I'd honestly just play it as a four of in a deck instead
It's annoying but it's also a neat way of balancing it (despite it being broken anyway)
It should be 3 because there isn't many things you can do for a commander
@@TheAmightyit was busted with 2, lurrus with 3 would be disgusting
Seth is ready for that One Ring banned 😂
Seth and me both lol
You totally missed the EMERGENCY BAN 2 WEEK AFTER RELEASE INITIATIVE multiccard bannings in Pauper! 😢 This one easily makes it into the top 5! With format warping turbo initative turn 1 game ending combos banned....whats left is now slowed to an absolute earliest T2-3 today. And one of the remaining cards from the set remained/remains on watchlists.
I thought they took longer with initiative bc it wasn't available on mtgo for some time so it didn't get used much for quite some time right?
@@g.ganderson7415 In paper they were mostly fine because the paper meta is usually behind the MTGO meta and slower to be independant, but once the MTGO players got ahold of it and it was publishing something like 80% of the meta they emergency banned it within 2 weeks of it hitting MTGO. As strange as it is, it didn't hit the majority of paper lists till AFTER it got into MTGO lists first. Likely the "mtggoldfish effect" tbh.
That was exactly my point. It wasn't on the list since the mtgo release isn't the official release
@@g.ganderson7415 But when 90%+ of the player base got the cards finally, it broke immediately, so that's hardly fair tbh.
There was that time when you could play goose, Oko, and uro, questing beast, and esika chariot all in one deck. That simic deck was crazy
🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮
omg. the simic deck and the gruul adventures deck. BSG, soooo much ramp, sooo many answers.
too bad they coudn't Attune with Aether because it was banned.
Not quite. Oko was banned before Uro was released, and Uro/Chariot weren’t played in the same decks. (Ironically, Chariot didn’t see much play in general until after rotation)
How is this commend this upvoted? This is just not true.
lol the companion decks taught us the real issue is the friends we made along the way.
The word release is defined as the date a card could legally be played in tounaments so the ban for memory jar was made before the card could legally be played. So Memory Jar was banned before it could be played also known as a pre-ban.
Actually Lutri isn't the only card to get a ban before it was printed. Cards with the conspiracy card type were banned from all constructed formats before they were printed.
That is different-it was a Limited/draft component-and unusable because they all involved the phrase like “when you draft-“
Companion was never to be a strictly limited/draft mechanic.
@@thomaskiser3886 Not all of them say "when you draft". For example, Backup Plan.
Also just cause a card references drafting doesn't mean it gets an autoban for constructed play. Archdemon of Paliano is constructed playable for example.
But yes, Conspiracies were never intended for constructed play.
Yeah, I didn't count those because they don't really feel like real cards, but maybe I should have. Technically they do show up on the official ban list.
And the conspiracy cards aren't alone.
As I mentioned in my own comment: they released Timmerian Fiends (an *ANTE* card) a full year and a half after the whole Ante effect was put on the banlist.
@@faceoctopus4571 sooo you agree they are different since the set and the conspiracy draft mechanics were developed for limited and not intended for constructed ever…even though you pointed out that one nitpick? Lol. They were developed with no intention where all these other caress were in standard and all other formats or intended to be…which makes them different. We may as well through all the unglued cards on the list then…which would be silly!
I had someone in my area who would not budge on the idea that lutri shouldn't be banned in commander, because the card itself was not broken. Completely missing the point that even if it were a vanilla it would be an auto include in every deck with its colors because it has litterally no opprotunity cost, and in fact would be objectively worse to not have. Yet alone actually having an impactful ability that just about any deck can make use of
Ivory Tower is actually played in Premodern. All three of us premodern players are appalled!
I love you grandpa!
It was restricted for the same reason Sharazad was: it just makes the game way too long
I can remember Limited Resources being 'banned' from limited when me and some friends stopped in for open drafts. They raised their hand for a judge, and just swapped the whole pack out if that was the rare.
was there a reason why?
The play patterns. Mono w was already one of the best archetypes and it didn't need a lot of mana. If you don't have an answer to LR in your deck it's a scoop. Lots of tappers in white already, so if you sat through a game of that you'd want to play another game instead. Draw a card for turn, you can't play a land, discard for hand size and pass until opponent loses from a bunch of 2 and 1 power creatures and etc. It was better just to swap in the new pack and draft without that card. Read that card. At best case it makes it so nobody else can play magic. It was pretty much boosting if you got LR as the rare. There isn't much else on rate that can compete or even answer that card for card, mana for mana the turn it comes out in the decks that can play it, which is anything with the best color, white.
And here we are with unbanned Mind's Desire a week after the video
Lutri was the illusion WOTC casted to make us think they didn't design standard sets for commander
As an otter enjoyer, i wish lutri wasn't banned, just had a restriction that said "can't be used as a companion in commander" or something. There's only like 3 otters in the game 😭
I still swear I remember Memory Jar being announced as getting banned during the pre-release of that set, if not the day of release. Might not have been officially banned but was on the chopping block.
12:43
Actually, it would still be 100 cards, Lutri starts in the Companion zone which is a lot like a sideboard, it's 99 cards+Commander+Companion. (Or 98 in case of partners/Backgrounds)
pretty sure that companions are outside of the deck and not counted as part of the 100
@@christianroot6287 that's what they said
@@wesleywyndam-pryce5305 yeah oopsies
The last part about lutri is wrong: the deck would still have 100 cards, but all UR+ decks able to play Lutri would have an additional free card (and also quite powerful)
He was not wrong in what he was saying. In a 100 card format, if the 1 card is in every deck of its colors, then when building those decks you are only choosing the other 99, since the 1 is always there
@@thomasjacobs4919that is wrong. Companions aren’t part of the deck, they’re essentially the 101st card and why it was even more of an issue.
yay i love when you do series about cards from the years
The companion is the 101st card of a commander deck, so izzet decks wouldn't have been 99 cards+lutri but 100 cards+lutri.
At least izzet* including Grixis, Temur etc
Where did you get that idea?
@@blueheartorangeheart3768 the rules
-No, it would be 99+lutri. Lutri was an extra card in the "starting" hand for no opportunity cost.- I was wrong.
That's just wrong.
Wow this brought me back. I played Magic from Revised in '93. During combo winter I sold all my cards and bought Warhammer models. Didn't come back till RTR, like 13 years later.
Great video!
Now, THE SLOWEST BANNINGS!!
I was upset about Lutri as I wasn't following mtg at the time and thought it would be super fun to have with my deck.
I'm not a fan of rule zero conversations beyond general power level, but I think that, in this case, you should just ask your pod or playgroup if it's ok to run Lutri. Commander is so messed up (exactly why I love it,) that if someone asks, can I run this or that, or if I can use these two as partners even though they don't have it, I'll just say go ahead! I would even tell to play companion as it's written on the card.
@@jussikivela1914 I used to be part of a group that was super hardcore on tournament rulings even if casual that made me rather glad I no longer live in the same state as them anymore.
@@Sxcheschka Fortunately my playgroup is really relaxed and has some really inventive players. One player in particular has had these fun brews, like mono white Bruna and Gisela partners, mono red Brothers Yamazaki partners and an insane Kitsune mystic/Autumn-Tail, Kitsune sage auras build.
@@jussikivela1914 See, I've always wanted to do The Brothers Yamazaki as they are the og partner commanders, and I'm still a little salty to this day about it, but nope those don't have the official rulings to play with those in tournament play so F you basically. I've also wanted to do silly Un-set stuff as you are never really able to play with those cards, but because that playgroup really only cared about insane efficiency decks and not stupid silly fun, they were like, well what's stopping me from using the overpowered cards, but it isn't about being overpowered, it's about having fun.
Now we wait for the update video where the MH3 cards are included
I enjoy these types of videos so much. I learn so much
There's like this sound coming from Seth with his barely laugh that makes me thing of a goat lmao
Surprised to not see Mental Misstep, that was basically banned a couple of days after modern was made.
How long had it been out before Modern was made, though? (Actual question, don't know the answer off hand.)
The list was for how soon a card was banned after it was first printed.
@@Sientir Well, modern was made official the day New Phyrexia was released and it was banned during that week... just enough time for me to get my 4 goddamn copies.
19:28 That aged well
Oh you saw the nizzahon magic video on “fastest bans” a few days ago too!
Oko's ban still felt like it took a year.
Time to add cranial ram to the list 😬
awesome production quality and audio but, whats that thing you are doing with your voice?
Can you do one about cards that stayed legal for longer than they should have, such as the Saheeli Rai Felidar Sovereign combo that dodged two banning periods in standard?
thats completely subjective though
These kinds of videos are so awesome. I love them!
I have been thinking of ways to find the most expensive cards for every "block".
I was wondering if you could scrape data from eBay or other online resale sites for years that didn't have a good data?
I'm actually working on a video about the most expensive card from each year, hopefully it will be up in a couple of weeks.
Ragavan was prebanned in historic. It was banned prior to it's introduction to arena
Wait. No mention of Timmerian Fiends? A card banned 21 months before it was even released?
For context: no. Lutri was not the only card to be pre-banned.
In January 1994, with the creation of the DCI Banned/Restricted list, all cards that had Ante effects were banned from play.
Towards the end of the next year - October 1995, Homelands was released with Timmeian Fiends... an Ante card.
(There are a few other Ante Cards released after the mechanic was banned - Bronze Tablet in Antiquities, Rebirth in Legends, Amulet of Quoz in Ice Age) - the Fiends are just the most pronounced one, being the last card ever printed with the mechanic.
People don’t run maze of ith in edh anymore??? This is more surprising to me than the rest of the video haha! Thanks for the video :-)
I still do use it in some decks. It is definitely seeing less use than before probably because it is way much easier to make wide powerful board. Still I won't dare to call Maze a "bad" card like in a video. Rather not anyhow broken to ban it in a first place xD. I suppose at least from a perspective of modern meta
It still shows up on occasion, but it isn't really a staple anymore.
Mind's Desire's announcement was before Scourge was even legal to play. They were both effective on the same day.
I love how people are going cross eyed screaming BAN THE ONE RING!!!! And you either don't play modern or didn't see how the one ring worked in the pro tour. If anything Dauthi Voidwalker is more busted than the one ring.
Clear opponents hand and have menace or double striker within 1st three turns. Fair and fun.
Turn 1 4/4 double striker. Super fun.
Ironically enough I'm breaking ivory tower on arena with reliquary tower so i can just have a giant grip of cards and negate the life loss from The One Ring. Haha
bannings didnt happen with each set release but on the 20th every end of quater beeing effective on the first day of the next month. sets becoming legal only the first the following month was a long time rule when we couldnt all preorder stuff from the internet.
IIRC to be banned 6 days after release Minds Desire was announced to be banned and restricted before it was even released. so we are actually tied here. since Scourge was relese on the 26 and became legal the following 1s of the month. and therefore also illegal to use Mind's Desire on the same day.
21:45 Lutri wouldn't of taken away a card. Companions are a 101st card for Commander decks. It's literally free.
Would Alter reality be able to target Llawan, Cephalid Empress as it was being cast, to change the color words on it? Or would it only be able to target the creature after it was cast?
This DEFINITELY isnt about the one Ring and the B&R this weekend, huh? :D
“In general wizards avoids printing cards so strong they need to be banned”. Ahh, I see you’ve met my friend Hogak
still got 4 ivory towers...... was a staple in my blue deck back in the day hahaha
Man Wizards saw your Mind's Desire entry and were like: Bet
Fluctuator was banned so fast we did not even see it coming. Urza's Saga came out Make Fluctuating Death deck. Played it once in a Local match was banned the next week before a PT Qualifier.
You only needed 3 cards in hand to win Fluctuator, a swamp, a Dark Rit and all the rest of the cards cycled. Everything cost 2 to cycle so turn one play swamp cast Dark Rit Cast Fluctuator cycle until you get 2 more Dark Rits and Living Death cast the rits cast LD win.
Time Vault + Animate Artifact + Instill Energy. 2 years of development and play testing never saw it comming.
The point where I felt Oko crossed the line was this one 5-0 Red Deck Wins deck I saw. Bog standard Red Deck Wins deck... that splashed _both blue and green_ to run Oko.
Why wasn’t yorion pre-banned in commander? Doesn’t it’s companion tax also make it free to play
Actually, it's impossible to play Yorion as a companion in commander. Its deckbuilding restriction states "Your starting deck contains at least twenty cards more than the *minimum deck size*", that last part is important because it doesn't state the deck size, eg 60 or 100, so the restriction works differently depending on the minimum deck size in the format you're playing. So in 40 card formats you need at least 60 for Yorion, in 60 card formats 80, and in 100 card formats you'd need 120. The problem is, in commander you deck has to be *exactly* 100 cards, no more, so it's impossible to meet Yorion's companion requirement.
You can't legally fulfill Yorions companion condition in commander
Yorion isn't banned, it just doesn't work under the rules of the format since you have to play exactly 100 cards so there's no way to legally meet its restriction in Commander.
Tolarian Academy :( i found it out in the wild for $20 hoping i could use it...didnt know it was banned until i got home and found out i run a few artifact decks
Oko was epic. It made me quit 3 formats at once.
And if their testers didn't use it for removal, they are short on a few goddamn brain cells.
What about the fetches pre-pioneer? They were banned before the format even came out.
Wasn't the Saheeli + Cat combo banned before it hit standard?
Oddly, no. Copy Cat was legal in Standard for about three months before Wizards finally banned it.
@@MTGGoldfish hey thanks for the info!
Maybe you can do one a video on card/deck ruining rule changes. RIP Brain in a Jar. (Honestly that rule change was completely called for for confusion reasons, but WotC should have done it BEFORE a cool combo was built around that cute interaction).
Lutri be like Imagine being banned after the set your printed comes out
I love this series, seth!
“Stoke of Genius”
The SaffonOlie guarantee, laddies and getlemen
Never chage, Seth. Never chage.
DAMN YOU SETH! you had my hopes up for a the one ring ban. but its just a history lesson :
I didn't understand Lutri till I realized he wouldn't be your commander but an extra companion in the 99
Should i try to sell the one ring now before a ban? Or will the price will be stable even when it's not a modern playable card anymore.
The price will drop when it gets banned in modern, but it will still rise over time, since it fits in almost every EDH decks.
@@reyny2118EDH gets even more boring with that autoinclude.
After Lotr is done with its print run, there will never be another The One Ring printed ever again. I'd say it's pretty safe to keep ahold of if you're able to
@@JaxonUmlmao, I doubt this. We’ll see it in a product down the line guaranteed.
@@sleepteamwe'll probably see a mechanical reprint but not the lotr flavor to avoid copyright
note: Lurrus is legal in vintage nowadays
Thankfully. Jeskai Xerox needs it to try and keep up with initiative. It helps… sometimes.
I actually really like Maze of Ith in my Grimgrin deck, basically allows me to destroy a creature every turn without risking Grimgrin in combat.
Also, minor mistake, Companions are a 101st card to a deck. So saying Lutri decks would be 99 cards plus Lutri is not correct. However, the card is rightfully banned either way.
Did everyone forget about Rampaging Ferocidon? If I remember correctly it was banned before it entered standard but was later unbanned. Should still count for a list like this though.
Rampaging Ferocidon was banned in January 2018 after being released in September 2017, so it had a good 3 months before it was banned.
If i recall, a famous mtg pro sent a letter to WOTC telling them this card needs to get ban and a deck list of a turn 1 or 2 kill with Megrin
I played ivory tower in a Kruphix EDH decks. For 1 mana you can often gain over 100 life, no so bad.
Why not just change the Oko second ability to only permanents you control or make it a minus ability?
oko being banned in 45 days is what makes the mini ban window especially suspect. they cite oko as an example of a card that is clearly way too powerful, and that's when they'll use the emergency mini ban window... but even he was banned after much more time than fits in the mini ban window.
i’m running ivory tower as a 4 of in a mono black historic deck. combos like crazy with the one ring.
It works well with Lich.
Number one has gotta be lutri right? Banned like, a month before it even came out?
Funny he says Ivory Tower doesn't see play anywhere. It was a key piece of the most powerful deck in Premodern but ironically just got nerfed because Land Tax got banned.
Once again, no commander bans.
Can't restrict the best game mode baby!
Without looking, my boy lutri got the rawest deal ever
Maze of ith was huge for stopping the silly tron decks in EDH, stuff like Rafiq of the many.
Me and my friend were talking about tron the other day, and I asked what big spells were played before Karn Liberated / Eldrazis. I still have no idea. Lol.
This is one day old. Maze of Ith went up 2 dollars and card kingdom sold 19 original printings
These seth videos are the best content (okay some brewers kitchens are better. Their editing is insane)
I think companions would have been okay if the deck building restrictions were actually really heavy or they also had tough casting restrictions
You and @nizzahon mind melded on this one
Is Lutri hard banned or just as a companion? Can you use it as a commander or in the 99?
Since it’s banned in the commander format as a whole, you can’t use it for any of these unfortunately.
I don't understand if they are only considering Oko +1 on your own stuff why didn't they make that restriction?
And similar with Tibalt's Trickery... such bizarre oversights.
Potentially a blind spot, similar to what happened with Gotcha from Unhinged. Because designers know how they intended a card to be played (or their game in general), they have a tendency to play with it as they intended, which can result in them overlooking stuff that seems obvious in retrospect. The same kind of thing happened with Skullclamp, where they changed it from giving +1/+1 to +1/-1 to weaken the card, overlooking the interaction with X/1s.
Design is hard, and it's easy to tunnel vision in all kinds of ways when doing it. They might catch themselves or break out of that tunnel vision the vast majority of the time, but they will still miss stuff on rare occasions. Remember, too, that there are simply far fewer designers than their are players; we have the advantage when it comes to seeing all possible ways a card can be used.
With companion rule update, should Lutri be unbanned?
As long as a commander deck has to have exactly 100 cards, no. URx decks shouldn’t get a free 101st card. If it became 100 card minimum, it can absolutely come off the ban list.
Lutri’s banning is not about power level
can you guys do a ban unban predction video for modern?
Honestly, combo winter sounds like my kind of format 🤤
3:59 who would've guessed? Infinite combos aren't fun? No way!!!
I have one (almost) Cedh deck and I always ask to rule 0 lutri in if it's part of the 99 and not a companion; I have a swap out card if not. He just adds some consistency as a 2nd dualcaster mage.