Punk's HONEST Thoughts on Street Fighter 6 Right Now...
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- Опубликовано: 12 дек 2023
- Kizzie Kay and PunkDaGod sit down to talk about the state of Street Fighter 6 right now, nearly 6 months after the game's initial launch. Does Punk think the game is in a good state right now, or does he have some mixed feelings about it?
Do you agree with Punk's thoughts on the meta so far? Comment down below!
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If perfect parry wasn't in the game it would be way too snowbally. You would just run over opponents and destroy them no issue. This mechanic is absolutely needed. Without some characters would absolutely be unplayable. Top players don't care about the health of the game. They just want a game that makes it easier for them to win
Agreed. Perfect parry is why this game isn't Street Fighter V. And Street Fighter V sucks. If you don't want to get perfect parried, vary your timing.
Only people who don’t know when it’s their turn would be snowballed
@@Yoloslides Yes, that's exactly why Street Fighter V sucks, lol. Good defense mechanics like PP offer a more intuitive answer than a simple knowledge check.
i agree.. and its coming from punk too, an ultra competitive trash talking player, i mean if i was him i would say the same, PP sucks. because it changes so much the flow of the game literally
nah they just want the game to be rewarded with skill. Not have all of these comeback mechanics.
I miss delayed wake ups which would also help with countering throw loops as people have the timing down for them
@@Inaluogh Not in the corner but I get you. TBH there are things that can be tweaked but I don't think they need to make any major changes to the systems in the game. PP is really strong and so it makes sense for throw loops to be really strong as it coulters parry attempts. there is also a bit of a recovery it seems on the Parry where I can't tech throws if the opponent doesn't hit me during the Parry
The delay wake up would be horrible in this game
@@charlespittman3084 with perfect Parry, yes
Everyone wants to attack with no defensive opinions to expose them. Cammy is rush down so of course Punk hates perfect parry Everyone wants help to make their character easy to win with
Thats not what he's saying. People can mindlessly hold down parry and get a PP by chance. Many PP's are not premeditated. So for example if times a meatie like a frame off and someones holding parry on wake up, or OS'ing is. Boom perfect parry. Maybe someones holding parry while blocking and you do a stagger pressure that hits parry right as it comes up. Boom perfect parry.
It's low risk, high reward.
The amount of times I had someone cornered and they were holding down parry on defense, get a random PP, back throw me and then suddenly I am losing is way too numerous. If people let go of whiff parry, I should be able to punish them for it.
@@kenamada5451every character can perform PP... If you see someone abusing it, grab them
@kenamada5451 Be a smarter and bait the parry..Again people just want random easy pressure without any repercussions..Use you brain make a read
@@tryingtochangemyways5074 This does not address the problem with Parry. This just creates the throw loop situation everyone is complaining about.
Pp is too low risk and high reward and throw loops are also way too strong.
@@johnnysmith4903 Above goes to you too.
The Perfect Parry talk from a lot of pros mostly amounts to wanting to feel free to keep the non-true blockstring pressure up with less risk. Typically, the answer for the defense was to take a big risk with an invincible reversal or super to break a frame trap. Now they can attempts a PP and still block. Personally, i like the fact that you still have to think during your pressure, but i also feel the fact that you can still block AND it covers both highs and lows is too much. I dont know if i would prefer separate high and low parries, or maybe just separate high and low for solely perfect parries as a separate command, but i do agree the defense gets too much potential reward for something that has little risk. Losing to throws isnt a big deal because it forces the offense to put breaks in their pressure, which is already a small win for the defense. Parries either need more risk or less reward.
I also agree drive rush out of neutral needs to put you in some form of counter or PC state if you get stuffed on the way in. One Bar is practically free of cost considering you build it back from the following offense. It's a great mechanic for both the players and spectators to allow for speed without just making everyone's walkspeed crazy high, but again it gives too much reward when combined with getting an extra +4 on block or hit.
I don’t play sf, but punk came up with an idea in the vid, he said a low pp and a high pp, this would make it less mashing based and more prediction based
What is your rank?
There's also the thing that checking drive rush is, like most system mechanics, not equal reward across the cast. Some can only check it while others can get a full combo, and some drive rushes are very hard to check for certain characters because they just don't have the disjoints in their moves to help them beat the drive rush button. If you stick out a move to check drive rushes they're often further away for a follow-up, and if your character doesn't have a far reaching enough button to hit them after checking them you just don't get anything.
Then there's also the thing with how cheap button cancel into DR is. It's 3 bars which is fine, but you start gaining drive gauge back very fast, so if you button into drive rush throw and then throw loop another throw on wake-up that only costs around 1 bar because you regenerate so fast.
@@gwen9939yeah it’s funny seeing pros talk about parry but not about how the game has almost hilarious “neutral” with drive rush. Like, of all things to complain about I would think it s the fact that sf6 has almost non existent neutral idk
@@howdydoodydoo3631 after how bland and dull it was to watch SF5 neutral at time then I say i'm all for SF6. Its a much more enjoyable game to watch least for me.
In older Melty if you whiff shield your guard meter is easier to deplete and you're left in a counter hit state if I'm not mistaken. Based on what mode you picked you also have to input the follow manually or it comes out automatically but but can still be countered.
I think.
The big problem with checking drive rush is it eats inputs so even when you have the reactions, you could pay for trying to check them
It doesn’t eat inputs
@@fayelisyes it does, this has been tested and proven. the drive rush screen freeze eats your inputs when trying to check or beat it with an invincible wakeup
It has been tested and it actually doesn’t eat your buttons. The idea that drive rush eats inputs is an untested myth
It doesn't eat inputs, it shortens the window or rather varies the timing. If inputs are done with the screen freezes then nothing happens for both players but after the freeze then inputs are read so input after the freeze although the window is strict
@@90sPotato So you say it eats inputs during the freeze...
The perfect parry "fail" is an inheritance from the original mechanic : SF3 Parry.
If i recall Daigo commented time ago that one thing of SF3 he didn´t like about was the parry. Powerful tool that makes the award that gives you the game for winning the neutral and bring opponent to corner and be the offender in the okizeme situation is so many times spoiled by a parry.
The devs surely made the 50% less damage coming after perfect parrying trying to dont make it so powerful, BUT at your back against corner or with many combos that corner carry so easily, the position altering factor of a perfect parry cant be denied.
And also the fact that just tapping Mid Attacks at same time to give you an 8 frame "parry shield" makes DParry too safe. With just a tap you get an 8 frames parry shield that vs IE cammy will give you "protection" vs almost all her standing/crouching attacks but cr. HP/ st and cr HK.
Throws do a lot of damage to DParry but, will be interesting what Nakayama , Matsumoto and SF devs do next patch.
Great interview! Great vid!
Perfect parry scaling only fixes part of the issue cause positioning is still fully affected, side switching and corner carry with luke Ken or Luke or whatever, any parry off any button means you're in the corner.
you cannot really compare these two games, SF3 parry is MUCH more of a factor and really theyre nothing alike, and Daigo was discussing specific 3S parry option selects. By all accounts Daigo likes SF6.
As one of the great 3S players of his era, you never hear Daigo complain about parry or any old 3S players. It comes naturally to account for this weaker parry if you have a 3S background, and it'll come to Punk too imo with time
One of the main things I disagree about with Daigo. I still wish the parry acted the way it did in 3S. I think it was a fantastic mechanic that provided a lot of fun mayhem in the gaming landscape and skilled players could use it more efficiently to amp up their game. I don't like the "shield" aspect of the game. But as much as I hate it I don't much like the thought of us getting a "game changing patch" every couple months or so like people are expecting. That shit was annoying in 5 and its annoying in every other fighting game. If they can patch the game a few times to correct a couple things than whatever, but Jesus I hope it doesn't keep happening several years down the road. Enough with patch culture.
@@stormcutter59 Agree. Patching things must be something should be done between 6-10 months.
One of the things makes me love the genre is that feeling of discovery that bring to players! If you are patching the game constantly, what is the reason for commiting to it?
Hope Capcom will make the right decisions. I think Nakayama and Matsumoto did a great job with this season 1 and will address the rough points.
Pushing forward and pushing 2 buttons that if you hold still work are 2 separate things. I disagree.
PunkDaGod is so right you cannot link normal with special anymore, you just get drive impacted everytime, after all these years of playing Street Fighter that way now it feels like a different game.
I’ve been playing SF4 and SFV and compared to 6 it’s very different. I feel iffy about 6 like I hate always needing to spend resources to punish one move. Like punishing with DI, PP, DR, instead of waiting for a minus frame or fake string or gaps you can interrupt. I just don’t agree with these game designs personally and agree with Punk.
Yeah its called adapting to the change..Capcom likes to make brand new games with every iteration..If you don't like the change you got ten other sf games where you can do that..
Fisher Price V. Toys R Us 6.
Great games I swear.
@@ChernobylComedyAndWings What's Toys R Us? Explain it to us please boomer 😊
@@markmessi9020 Provide an argument.
I've noticed a trend of your players not liking defense options. They hate perfect parry in SF6 and MK11 defensive options like the roll and flawless block. I'm not fan of constant offensive pressure into 1 hit into 45%. I live to watch Marvel but I hated learning it because it's all offensive and has no breaker like KI or MK. You have to sit there and take infinity combos.
The problem is you need aggressive play to be better in your game otherwise nobody will want to attack.
It's a long list of issues, I'll just say that defensive mechanics can make a game very passive (3rd strike) prime example. Then tacked on the things like parry & impact in 6, you have the same game designer from SFV who does not understand the basic fundamental concept of Risk V Reward. Then add to that the fact that they have dumbed down win conditions to the point where it feels like I'm playing hearthstone. SF used to be a game where you had to have a strong knowledge of many aspects to get your win conditions. These games you can just focus on 1 or 2 things and tunnel vision your win condition. Button, into drive rush , drive rush into button, do my lvl 2 or lvl 3 super here. And you can get lvl 2 supers twice in a round so. The game is designed by a very stupid person. I'm not gonna sugar coat it, this is the second game where he's made a complete pile of garbage.
If every character is scary that makes the game fun to watch
but kind of repetitive
Zykles has an excellent video about this, because the perfect parry adds to this 3-way 'active defense' triangle that is tremendously frustrating to fight against when you're fighting a cornered opponent, which is Parry, Backdash, and Mash. Parry beats meaties and, on a perfect parry, rewards at the very least a backthrow to sideswitch. Backdash beats throw and rewards a pressure situation (Gief, Manon, Marisa, Chun have 25f backdashes), for many characters, a backthrow to sideswitch (anyone with the standard 23f backdash frames) or for the privileged, a sideswitch combo (Luke and Ken do this meterless for example). Mash beats baiting or delay buttoning, which results in a pressure situation, a knockdown, or sideswitch.
You sacrificed resources and life to earn that corner position, or you won neutral, which means the opponent that just sideswitched you is often operating with more drive meter after cornering you (Consider that post PP is a punish counter situation, along with post backdash, so the incoming initial combo will chunk another 0.5-1 drive pip). It almost makes getting hit for fun and then rolling the dice next wakeup more rewarding than landing a hit in the first place.
These Kizz x Punk discussions are great, keep em coming 💪
Drive system just needs small changes. Perfect parry needs to be a separate button so it isn't free.
Drive rush just needs an input buffer option for the player on the receiving end(option cause maybe some are used to it). If screen freeze were removed DR would be a big nightmare and more complaints about anyone with a good rush would be endless. Maybe some minor rebalancing on some for speed/distance.
Please don't tell me I'm the only person for saying this, but I really want them to change the input for drive reversal. Too many times I was either early or late after being hit, and instead of the reversal, I get DI instead, causing my opponent to counter me. I would suggest 2 other buttons, like maybe LK+HK+forward. Anything but the same DI button.
I would also suggest if you're in a parry state, you should NOT be allowed to normal block during the recovery. It's unfair when you properly hit someone during a parry recovery and they just block with no penalty. It's a win win for the defense, and FU for guessing right.
Definitely agree on the Drive Reversal thing I get DI all the time on accident and it’s so annoying.
Omg I thought i was the only one having this problem. I was just playing last night and It’s been happening to me to the point where I just don’t just drive reversal anymore so frustrating when it happens.
Thank you God!!! People that I can relate to. I was starting to think it was just me being bad at the timing. I did a match, and when it started, they got in, I blocked and did a reversal since I've had full drive gauge, DI comes out instead, they DI countered, lost 60% health over a move I never wanted to do.
Parry definitely needs some whiff recovery
The whiff recovery on a parry keeps them grounded from 30 some frames or more. You can drive rush throw for guaranteed punish counter damage. If they are in the corner you can drive impact when you see the opponent miss a parry and get a free wall crush because they won’t be able to di back in time
I think perfect parry only against specials would be good
The player with the rushdown character hates defensive options thats a suprise
Love how they nerdin out. They both deserve to speak on this
Punk probably gave the best answer to parry, make it a high OR low parry. Not both and we can keep it like it is.
Here's my inputs on this. Great vid but i feel like punk wants the elements that he had in sf5 back. What i mean by that is once you have control of the match its pretty much in your favor the entire time instead of playing rock paper scissors. I honestly beleive the drive mechanics other than a few outliers is perfect. In sf5 we complained about the lack of defense due to snowballing offenses that some characters mainly top tier or offensive characters had. Sf6 i feel like i can combat those scenarios better especially playing as a grappler aka zangief and Lily. With how volatile the coner is in sf6 nerfing perfect parry removes the versatility I have which forces me to either pick up a new character or quit the game because its no longer fun. Everybody keeps throwing out nerfs without understanding how much of the game and character rooster it effects. Hell if zangief corners you and you had to guess either I attack low or high and you're punished each time you guessed wrong thats GG my guy. What if I perform a bottom parry and drive impact happens? Thats insanely too much damage especially against characters like Marisa. By nerfing the core mechanics this sf will turn into other street fighters where its very tier base. JP is a strong match up against zangief but with these mechanics it doesnt feel impossible. Certain previous games it felt like checkmate from start to finish even when I studied the match up at the highest levels. These mechanics allows the player to actually enjoy their character regardless of the match up. If you dont believe me play matches when both players are constantly burnt out and youll see how much better top tier characters are vs middle to low. Keep the mechanics and youll see how middle and low tier characters are able to pull off surprising and convincing upsets. You dont see that in previous street fighters other than 3rd strike and sf4. Sf5 you rarely see bottom mid to low tier characters win majors let alone sit at the top of the charts. Lily main right now in japan region is battling from top 50 to top 10 and she's damn near bottom. Zangief won a pro tour. The same can happen with manon if people use the same dedication towards her that players use for zangief. Granted top tiers will be top tiers but nerfing the mechanics will just further stretch the tier list and people will then turn their complaints towards the characters and another overhaul will be done just for us to complain about what ever meta surface then. Just nerf a few people drive rush speed and it will be ok. My only real gripe about the game is how there's characters with no real flaw other than out playing the player itself. Ken, luke, jp, a well crafted chun li, dee jay can all pretty much play their best game from start to finsh regardless of the position. They need MINOR and I meab very MINOR tweaking while the middle and low tier needs MINOR and I mean VERY minor buffs. I love fighting games thats have diverse character use vs going the army of jp, ken, luke, and cammy. I see these characters constantly.
well said. I agree.
Game is trash no need a long explanation. Sf6 is one of the worse Street Fighter games to ever release. Garbage Drive impact and Rush, takes away what Street Fighter was ever good for.
@@teemobadger2037 and what exactly is street fighter good for?
@@jamaledwards8118 Street fighter has always reawrd players who took the time to develop skills to get good at depending how much time a player puts into different categorize such as your offence, defense etc... Sf6 will continue to die out fast after updates. I can put money on it. Game isn't good, and it's clear as day.
@@teemobadger2037 man what? What are you talking about? Are you saying you can win in sf6 without practicing? If that's the case why are YOU not at Capcom Cup if it's that easy?
Love the fact that Punk's got those Naruto, Fairy Tail and Bleach posters going on at the back
good interview, man. Thanks for the content.
they removed the buffer from back dashes.... This absolutely kills char's like Zangief. Gief having no reversal, means ppl like to throw him on his wake up. Literally nothing to worry about. He's has no throw invul moves or a reversal at all.. .Well, backdash>SPD is his only option. BUT not being able to buffer SPD in the backdash means, i have to backdash, and then input spd. giving my opponent MORE time and chances to jab me or jump after whiffing the throw. They need to allow you to buffer moves in dashes again like SFV. In SFV, backdash into CA was the best. but that only worked cuz you input the CA during the backdash...
They should of made parry more risky like in Third Strike were you have to time it better and sacrifice blocking. Besides being thrown and losing a tiny bit of meter theres really no risk in just banging it out and there's hardly any skill involved. Most of the time people just get lucky.
Sure.
The more you parry, the easier it is to get stunned. That is how it should be....somewhat like Street Fighter 4.
The frustration is real. I can only play for short bursts.
I have the same issue. SF6 is the only fighter I can’t play for a long period of time and that’s why I deleted the game 😂
@JonNewgate I'm not quite there, but I feel you 😂
Same dunno how my friends can play nonstop whilst raging. I play for about an hour or 2 max, can only do a maximum of 5-10 sets with each different opponent before I get drained and or tilted. I’m not trying to get frustrated and stressed and sweaty every time I get on the game where you can lose both to almost anyone or anything over 2-3 mistakes that sometimes aren’t always your fault due to input issues. Mental stack is extremely taxing.
It's weird, I could have played SF5 for hours, I've had enough of 6 after 1 and a half, two hours max.
@@JonNewgateout of all street fighter titles this one is the most infuriating tbh
I would agree but pp has imo one balance change that made it better than 3 and that's the heavy scaling it presents. PP is great in that its to reset the playing field and prevents snowballing from one mistake. Unlike vtrigger and ultras which is just free damage and varies greatly with characters, pp is universal.
Pp also prevents corners from becoming too oppressive, it's a great way to balance in that if you get to the corner it can also be used against you with a pp and back throw
Maybe the perfect parry should have a set followup, as to not mess with the spacing, or just dont allow throw/side switch specials after a successful perfect parry. But honestly, thats why throw loops are in the game. it really seems the devs thought of the wakeup corner parry being risky since throw covers parry AND wake up button.
Obviously, if they remove throw loops, they gotta change wake up corner perfect parry
also, i think pressing parry in neutral randomly IS whack, to stop it you could make it have a punish counter state as punk says, but i think its better if you get more frames to drush-throw as a punish (maybe you get a "sped up drush" whenever the enemy taps parry), and it should lock them out of throw teching for just a couple frames more, so it can be consistently PC thrown, rewarding oki and 20% rather than just an obnoxious combo. the 2 frame window and 50% scaling are enough of a drawback and giving people full PC combos would send parry to the same shadowrealm drive reversal is in rn.
I have to say, the corner spacing point (where you can wake up/perfect parry/throw your opponent back into the corner where you once were) IS the most important thing too address, seems like a slightly janky risk/reward for the person on offense, but even then, there are throw loops for some characters in the game, to heavily discourage wake up corner parrying. i guess having a set forward push move on a successful perfect parry, would help in cases where "you are just trying to keep them in corner jail, in neutral".
Said this in a reply:
When using drive parry, I think the mixup comes from the drive usage.
A whiffed parry prevents drive regem for 240 frames and uses half a bar, and you're stuck in place. Afterward, you gain about 24% of a bar per second. If you're too far away for a grab to punish parry, you can use a heavy attack during their recovery of a parry to take even more bar from them AND also extend the drive regen time.
A lot of drive gauge can be lost to blocking attacks after a whiffed parry attempt during that time.
I think high lows are affected, yes, but more of the risk reward goes to drive regen time, not just drive bar spent. Drive regeneration speeds and drive regen pausing times are important and I feel like they are overlooked.
Not sure if anyone is really looking into this but I'd love to hear thoughts.
That is more thought than most people complaining about perfect parry have put into it.
The issue with this is it doesn't matter. The state of the game now drive bar doesn't matter that much. If I can go Drive rush forward or Drive cancel that's all that matters because that's all it takes to win a round.
Perfect parry is a trash mechanic in its current state, it's literally a safe reversal in essence. It removes mindfulness from defense you tap it randomly and feel like you did some thing when really you ain't know anything you weren't being mindful you just kept tapping it randomly hoping to catch something. The issue for me is it doesn't feel like you got outplayed, it feels like they got lucky and even when I get it I know I just got lucky.
@@PoppinBgO I can understand this. However I do think that it forces you to mix up your offensive options.
In regards to Drive Rush and Drive Rush Cancel, i do believe that they are overcentralizing, as are throw loops and the corner being an early death sentence. I think that the dev team right now is weighing what changes to make to the system very carefully.
Having said that, I do think the drive system is interesting to start with. Sf5, if I understand correctly, was insulted for its free pressure situations, so sf6 went in the opposite direction. As always, theirr overcompensation in the new game went too far for some people (like how sf5 removed Invincible backdashes that were in sf4, causing people to say early sf5 was too offense oriented), but also as always they will adjust in time.
@@ekwensu8797 I would agree with forcing you to mix up options.
Issue is you can't safely mix your options without giving up your turn. Unless you play a really strong top tier. If there was variable cancel windows or more than just a handful of default plus frame normals. I would be down for PP mostly in its current state but currently there's just no way to effectively mix up your options safely.
Defense in this game is only one of 3 options at this point in 90% of my games 4 framer - parry - jump. While the only thing that doesn't outright beat me trying to vary my timings is Jump. People forget you can tap parry during gatling 4framers and get a reversal throw. And after tap2 you have to walk throw so tapping parry there has zero risk and if they hit a negative button they are still negative and can't take a turn for me hitting parry. What did I risk?
@@PoppinBgO In regards to your last point I think what you risked is drive gauge rather than frame advantage. Drive gauge depletion, pause of drive regen, time to establish space, etc. You also revealed an option that you are likely to go for now.
The game feels weird because frame advantage and traditional turns are effectively thrown out the window. You can lose a game even when playing "correctly" because you aren't considering drive mevhanics or super. That's why the game is polarizing.
Personally I love that, even if i concede some mechanics need fixing. But I understand those who don't. It creates a more free flowing system
But that thing isn't a parry, it's just a special blocking for preventing your OD bar to low. I think that only "perfect" parries should exist, and they should be high and low parries like in SFIII.
Thank fucking god you’re not working at capcom then
More needs to be said about the crappy input reader. I keep getting Lily's lv 2 when I drive rush low forward into spire and my inputs show that I only did one quarter circle. She'll also randomly command grab in neutral when trying to wind stock it's messed up.
this game has a massive input issue and most would just say skill issue but even pros are getting sick of it, so hopefully it gets fixed with the next major update.
@@tomcruise7481 Yea my inputs aren't the cleanest but it happens to Hibiki and Elchakotay too so it's not just me being bad.
Sorry man but you're mashing lol
@@LEWfromdaHOU I actually checked the inputs in the reply and it shown clearly that there was only one quarter circle yet super came out.
@@DayFul Trust me I know what you're talking about. It happens. You gotta be careful with that ↙↘ diagonal input. You acknowledged that your inputs aren't clean. If the game picks it up twice, that super is coming out when all you want is a condor spire.
I like this talk here man. Keep up the grind Kizzie Kay!!
His explanation on perfect parry is the same with any type of luck factor when you drive rush hit. Or wake up super. But that’s part of the mind game of it all. And if they Try to PP you get extra dmg on a throw.
I noticed a big problem with the way that parries were input in Third Strike: I sometimes was able to get accidental parries while inputting a dragon punch command because the first motion is forward. That allowed me to quickly punish any incoming high or medium strikes with a DP. Switching it to two simultaneous buttons in SF6 eliminates the accidental parries from inputting special attack commands. However, parries need simple inputs to be able to be used for reactions. Forcing them to require a joystick input plus two buttons will make low parries too hard to use for instant reactions. There are no other two vertical button combinations left to use since one other is used for throws and the other is used for drive impacts and drive reversals if I recall correctly. If you use the two built in macro buttons to implement distinct controls for low parries, that further nerfs classic controls since modern controls have a lot of macros, so classic controls need their user customizable macro buttons to boost reaction speeds for things like parries and drive reversals.
TLDR; “I don’t like it because I can’t go brain dead on offense and can’t do it regularly” 😊
They could change it so you could only do the drive reversal animation after PP, just a quick reset
made a lot of good valid points though I like the ideas for perfect Perry
It sucks until a hacker perfect parries literally everything and kills you slowly but surely
I actually love the mini games inside the games. I don't think one good or bad guess in nuetral should decide the match. I thought most people were in agreeance that vortex and set play was bad.
the argument seems to be less about not wanting the game to be that freeform, and moe about tweaking good stuff that feel off at the moment. Is like punk said, the first interation of a sf game is never the best or ideal, sf6 being so good ppl argue around its tweaks rather than just cry over it, shows that sf6 began with the right foot and has the potential to be a fantastic game.
idk man he's complaining that SF6 is like playing a bunch of mini games one after another (which I agree with this) but he then states that he wants to add high parry and low parry... which will be yet another mini game. Nah, I agree that they need to give it more recovery frames so that it can be punish countered.
What does punk mean when he said about the dp, does thw game not register your inputs or wth?
The reason why perfect parry and drive rush are strong is the lack of risk behind them. Tapping for perfect parry (not to be confused with hold parry) in the mid screen shouldn't be blockable during the recovery frames, and the drive rush should incorporate the punish counter property when successfully checked. Both would add risk to the mechanics like Impact and Reversal do. That and they need to fix the Drive Rush's screen freeze so it stops eating players' buttons.
I think it NOT being blockable would be too strong, but maybe if you could punish counter DI during the recovery of parry it would have a good amount of risk to just tap parry on wakeup
Removing DR screen freeze would make it harder to check and overall would just make it even stronger than it already is. Someone made a video about it, don't remember who but you could watch it for reasoning behind why drive rush screen freeze is good.
@covershade3660 Okay, but I never said to get rid of the screen freeze, lol. I said to fix it so it would allow input buffering during the screen freeze. Because as of now, it acts as though the a button or motion was non-existent.
@@covershade3660 nobody said anything about the screen freeze buddy 🤣
Low and Mid and High parry definitely needs to be a thing.
Low, mid, high perfect parry, not regular parry. If so, my JP would destroy the entire cast
Only viable things mentioned is that
-parrys definitely should have more whiff recovery and maybe more counter damage when you punish counter their parry.
-drive reversal should definitely put the user in counter punish state if opponent punishes
-drive reversal is scary to buff. If they make it too good then zoners will just abuse the shit out of it.
-drive impact is perfect
Perfect parry is only dumb because there is no risk. You mess it up and you have block as a back up. Parry in Third Strike works because it removes you being able to block so makes it risky.
They should make perfect parry work only when stick is in neutral, or down for lows.
I think the fact that there's no whiff animation for tap parry that's the problem. Can just block instantly after.
@@Roge9 And then you're punish counter throwable for more than half a second. That's the risk.
Third strike parries were much more broken. There is literally no risk for parrying in 3s. And on top of that you could air parry. And it’s a much bigger window for parrying. And there is no whiff animation at all.
I love 3s but you can’t complain about sF6 parries and then have third strike as some crowing example.
SF6 parries comes with many many risk.
Punish counter throws do 20% and leads to hard knockdown. And you lose and entire drive gauge as well.
It has a much tighter window of 2 frames. So it’s harder to hit consistently. You have to be intentional in how you use it
It’s tied to meter.
It has recovet ( not a low buts it’s there)
I think people are use to SF which was “hold these plus frames” the game. And people are use to a lack of defensive options. So parry is driving people nuts. But it’s necessary in a game like this that has insanely oppressive offense
How many games have you lost, perfect parrying and you get grabbed?
@@MrBranh0913 They're not apples to apples. Parries in SF3 required you to call out high/low and left/right.
Resident gear player here, I picked up sf6 recently, and I was astounded by how OP PP was. I am only around platinum rank, but the consistency with which you can PP an opponent's meaty, and make it your turn is... Distressing... (Note: i am the one who parries)
Very Interesting seeing how Punk feels, love his channel. For us normies, I think some are tired of extended drive rush combos feeling almost like MvC with some characters. Like, here let me put my controller down while I have you juggle me for the next 82 hits. Finding PC script cheaters needs to maybe be better if possible, It's not so much at high level but us "Mids" see it more. For the Hub..be nice if there was some area's where masters cant just come in, destroy everyone for those cab challenges. Or maybe Capcom not place so much importance on cab win challenges for fight money. plus, oh man he's right about Ken being so damn throw dominant!
No offense but this post reeks of entitlement.
The parry should have been like Gill parry in street fighter 5 Gill has a 3rd strike parry low and high choice parry but u hit a button instead no idea why they changed it to this other way
I'm struggling because the dpad on the dual sense is so different from the PS1 and PS4 controllers'. I played street fighter back in the days on the PS1 so I was always using the dpad. Since sf6 came out I've been playing with the analog stick and it's a lot harder to do some moves.
Hori octa fight commander. Look it up
Down down inputs kinda suck on analog but i think the rest are fine
You need perfect party against Honda especially if you don’t have a projectile
I just started playing ST6 after years of not touching fighting games I am like everyone new a noob but i got one win against Platinum i know this Rank is nothing to pro players still an achievement with classic control with JP i find him easier than other characters the hardest thing for me to do the super Art with my ps5 controller and how to chain into super.
I also really like how they included new mode for players to learn and enjoy
I wish there are one assit button for only one super in classic controls
Add 2 frames to startup of throws
The DP part couldn't be more true.
3:40 i mean at that point we should just make the parry system exactly like 3rd strike. Same parry window same high low things same option selects everything
Perfect parry is a godsend playing Jamie vs Dhalsim
It’s such common sense that perfect parry was simply not executed well in 6. Everything that was said in the video about it is 100% facts.
So entering the video, I disagreed with the need to nerf PPs as without it, some characters are unplayable but having heard Punk's thoughts, I kinda agree it needs to be slightly touched by increasing it's recovery to make it punish countered on whiff. Any more than that and it becomes not useful (I like that it halves the damage)
I see a few people hating on Punk's stance on PP. He may have minor gripes with it, but he still hit the main issue on the head. That is (just like with DR) the risk is very low and reward high to very high depending on the situation.
It either needs to not allow you to block during recovery, or increase the recovery by a few frames so it's punishable when whiffed at poking ranges. Having 2 different parries would be great as well (mid to up, and low).
@3:50 I like the parry being one thing. It got rid of over footsie games from the prev sfs. Martially / aesthetically I think footsie heavy games are just boring. Its much better to kind of cover your bases with one def mechanic and make it look cool. HOWEVER I to think regular parry is a bit too nice to the defender. whereas Perfect Parry is nice cause it forces people to change up their pressure off the floor or in game. I also think if you got the timing to get a PP off in the middle of pressure you earned some serious dmg on the attacker.
Everyone’s saying perfect parry has no risks..you know you can throw right? It’s all about changing your timing up and stop being obvious
Throws are already too strong. I imagine if parry gets nerferd then throws get nerfed too.
Yeah, meaties aren't a thing anymore. Like sure, you can get them off a couple of times before the opponent wises up and starting holding that parry on wakeup. Probably why they added back in throw loops, but I rather have no throw loops.
Imo there's an easy fix for this.
Remove throw loops unless on ounish counter then the player is plus enough for a loop, perfect parry shouldn't give guaranteed throws and shouldnt be plus enoigh for combos on Jabs.
I'm a fan of just make it work on special moves and keep it block safe, or make it cost 1 bar to activate and make it effect the frames of moves on successful connection so if they do something that was plus and you get it they lose +frames or if it's negative they're more negative giving a chance for punish.
You know like how a parry works in most other games.
Only SFV pros hate perfect parry
I wish there was an option to switch to the sf3 parry
Mans wants to go back to Frame Fighter V
Having a high/low parry would fix the drive parry issue without making it weak.
Perfect Parries are a part of life and life is hard and those are the facts.
DP’s with Cammy I swear always comes out to a level 1 I’m just like what is this 👀 I felt that punk 🤣
Why does it sound like this boils down to "If I am on offense I shouldn't have to think as much as if I am on defense."
It does make me curious what some people think about killer instinct since its mind games from start to finish on combos.
That is the FGC in a nutshell the fluctuation between the game lets you bull dog too much and yet game doesn't let you run unchallenged offense is so common and I hear this narrative in every game besides like guilty gear
Only people who play heavy offensive characters have a problem with perfect parry.
That is most of the Pro... Pro want to control 90% of the mach and PP will not let because if you go just offensive you wil PP
It’s to be expected Punk plays Cammy.
All the rushdown characters are top tier, like Cammy, Luke, Juri, Ken, DeeJay, all of them heavily offensive and are top except for Kimberly.
They should bring back USF4 game style.
Okay, I thought I was weird not being able to DP consistently
I saw all of this coming after about 10 minutes of gameplay in the open beta, before deleting it. 😅😅😅Anyway, if it's someone like Punk or Mena raising concerns about the game, then maybe they're making some valid points.
Perfect parry needs to be nerf, not gone but have it more punishable like 2nd impact. The way anyone can just hold the button does not take skill
PS5 players is the input detection horrible right now, or are my controllers just messed up?
There are small issues but 90% of people complaining are just making mistakes themselves
I think Capcom never factored how impactful being side switched is in this game really is. PP wouldnt be nearly as bad if assuming a defensive position in the corner wasnt such a bad position. Being cornered has always being bad, but in 6 being corneted againsy anyone 1800mr and above is a death sentence especially if your character has no viable reversals.
Many times you'll just get mauled into the ground but if i get a pp, i get to put you in a blender and you can lose the entire round even if you were massively outplaying me in the neutral and thats the reason i found myself in the corner to begin with.
This is definitely a huge deal.
The overpowering thing isn't really perfect parry at all, it's the threat of the corner. Like, the perfect parry itself does miniscule damage anyway.
If they did something to nerf the corner it would indirectly make perfect parry more fair too. Perhaps some change to throws or DI could accomplish that.
I keep seeing people saying they get thrown into the corner and lose the whole round. You can perfect parry their offense as well. You get thrown into the corner and.....somehow you can't use an option the opponent just used to reverse the situation?
@@ezekieljohnson8345 …So you’re going to risk another punish counter throw after you just got punish counter thrown into the corner? In a game with throw loops? Two throws, two bars lost and you probably didn’t have full bars to begin with. So now you’re at around 3-2 bars left. If you block, you’re losing drive. If you parry, you’re risking another PC throw.
So now you’re in a guessing game where everything is super risky and you’re suddenly very likely to lose, even though you were just winning. Your logic doesn’t make the mechanic justified
Still a death sentence even around 1400-1700mr. Especially against top tiers. Characters like Ken, Luke, Juri, DeeJay, etc will do that to you regardless. Seriously regardless of MR if you make a mistake and your opponent’s are optional and have great execution, it’s over for you no matter what.
@@JC_1000 why is everything now super risky for you when you just had the opponent in the same situation and it wasn't super risky for them.....? Isn't the argument against perfect parry that its low risk high reward?
The fact that perfect parry penalizes you for making a read on your opponent is wild to me. Your damage for perfectly parrying withing a 2 frame tolerance window is 50% damage reduction off tops, that shits booboo water. Blocking, whiffing, drive impact, or early parrying at least gives you a full damage combo punish if they're negative enough
I think PP shouldn’t let you side switch with throw. I don’t know how you’d implement it but that’s the thing I think is silly.
Weird idea, just make it possible to tech throws off perfect parry?
For real though, the DP's barely ever come out for me and half the time I get a fireball (I have no problems with them on guilty gear). I've been feeling kind of ashamed about it cause I'm diamond 3 and about to buy a hitbox or something cause I can barely do them on xbox controller unless it's EX DP on wakeup usually. Also, perfect parry is completely busted I can just parry the overhead perfect just about every time. Also, people that perfect parry spam in neutral are sick in the head and I will throw loop them forever out of pure rage.
so according to him,no one actually times the perfect parry?
@2:19 I cant say I agree, I perfect parry on purpose all the time. And I feel that the PP doesn't get enough return on it. But I'm not a pro hahaha shit.
Why don’t everyone just go to the tournaments and just say please can I have the winnings ?! Instead of constantly complaining about a great game it’s sickening these babies never happy ….
the game is balanced around perfect parry. you take it out, everything would need adjustments
I believe inputs problems come from getting modern into the game and changing input paths to accomodate them
Yep
how would that affect your inputs in classic?
@Xenozillex modern gamers can also do classic inputs, but I think it should be kept different still
@@STRANGE_BROyou might disagree with me but if you play on Modern you shouldn't be able to put in inputs. Modern should be the training that makes you want to switch to Classic
@@bigfittsI think Modern players should only be allowed to play against Modern players only in ranked, casual, and custom room should have custom options to allow modern controls.
Perfect Parry makes the game interesting and also adding layer of challenge for casual and pro. Character with low defensce can still has hope to compete thanks to perfect parry. Just because one pro doesn't want to adapt, doesn't mean the game mechanic sucks
“Fourteen years I’ve been getting dp’s” hard to argue with it. The input system in this game needs work. On d pad I literally can’t forward dash and throw fire ball, even with perfect inputs in training mode a dp comes out.
You need a micro pause after the dash.
@@felygu9268 it's tough when they already jumped haha
That DP issue, yes please! Every time I try to DP, I fireball, every time I try to fireball I DP. Bruh.
Someone should tell these guys about GGACR slashback.
yah i just ran into 3 different modern control marrissas with 3 bar wifi that all tried zoning & holding the parry button lol idk how people play like that
If you changed the system from what it is now, strong characters would be even better and weak characters would be even worse.
Imagine dealing with dragon lash, but parry sucks.
Imagine playing Zangief but parry sucks.
Some matchups would be borderline 8-2. All we need is DR in neutral to be more punishable, like a unique counter hit when you get hit DRing or make them take more damage or something. Other than that, buff Zangief, Jamie, and Lily a little bit and we’ll be golden.
I don't think anyone is saying "The ONLY thing that needs to change in SF6 is the global system."
In a hypothetical patch which included all these drive system changes, you would also see a cascade of balance changes to individual characters to compensate for the global changes. But these videos are specifically about the global system without getting into the weeds of specific characters (otherwise we'd be here all day)
@@brandonkiehl269 that’s fair, but I really mainly meant was those are the only changes we should do to DR. Some characters def need buffs along with any system changes they make.
drive rush freeze frames eating inputs needed to be removed yesterday
Event hubs made the same suggestions on DR as Punk. 1 bar with little to no risk is too much. A punish counter would help return neutral to the game a bit more.
And force a crumple state
Everyone seems to hate Street Fighter 5 but I love it lol I must be the only one but I much prefer it to Street Fighter 6. But it is the first version of 6 I am comparing to the last version of 5 so that makes sense to me. The last version of Street Fighter 6 will be much better than it is now. I hope.
100% agree
The input for drive reversal needs to be changed, i be getting di accidentally a lot and it's annoying
At least Perfect Parry is still better than Mortal Kombat’s Flawless Block System.
But I feel like it should be a bit more rewarding since the opponent takes reduced damage when you punish them.
Inputs are my only complaint
Oh no I have to change the way I play whatever shall I do 😢😢😢
Man idk, the way punk describes perfect parry the 1st 2 mins of the video sounds like it is working exactly as intended.
Having a strong defense option with a hard counter doesn't sound like a terrible thing
It is when there's no risk, and eliminates the mind games of blocking high or low.
@@darnarxztheres risk because you can be easily thrown out of it
The flaw of parrying is really why wouldn't you try to parry every time and hope it's your lucky day. Is the threat of a throw really enough to offset how mindlessly you can just tap parry
20% damage throw with 1 pip of drive meter loss, or in the case of the corner and they read the tap parry, you eat a DI into a crush.
@@Sestze that's not enough because the damage you eat by blocking and guessing wrong is worse than that anyways while the upside is a side switch pressure into corner which would then devolve into both players parrying. It's why even some pro players just randomly parry in neutral in hopes that they get lucky and catch something. The fact that you don't even need to guess whether an attack is a high or low/ left or right to parry it takes most of the risk out
Had an opponent who just tried to perfect parry every wake up. Easiest 2-0 of my life.
Had the opponent burned out and knocked out in like 12 seconds.
Ultra SF4 was the peak of street fighter
Yeah as a Kim player perfect parry just destroys the reason to ever play a mixup character and its mad infuriating that it counters everything.
Have you tried... throwing them?
Kimberly can always throw as part of her mixup kit. You can't just mash on parry during her pressure to make yourself invincible, then you get thrown to death.
@@soggytoast111 yeah i usually just throw now because everyone that isn't a dp bot reacts with parry on wakeup but it gets old real fast.