Anti-Trinity Myths | Steve Wohlberg and James Rafferty
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- Опубликовано: 12 май 2024
- Watch Pastor Steve Wohlberg and James Rafferty discuss the controversial topic of "the Trinity" directly from the Bible. What does God's Word really say? The answer may surprise you.
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Are You a True Seventh Day Adventist?
Seventh-day Adventists have always believed that all their teachings should be based on the Scriptures. Yet in the General Conference session on 24 April 1980 in Dallas, Texas, whe the Trinity was officially adopted for the first time as a fundamental teaching of Adventism, these words followed;
“While no single Scripture passage states the doctrine of the Trinity, it is ASSUMED as a fact… ONLY BY FAITH can we accept the existence of the Trinity.” - (Adventist Review, 1981, Vol. 158, No. 31, p. 4)
There is no other doctrine that Adventists hold that they cannot prove from Scripture. The truth about the Godhead is that it is very clear about the personality and individuality of the Father and Son, and the Holy Spirit is not regarded as another person. Infact the word Godhead found in the bible has nothing to do with hierarchy or numerical concept of three. To this end, it is not related to what is called Trinity or Triunity.
While there are areas that one cannot understand because the Lord has chosen not to reveal that information, who we are to worship is plainly shown in God’s Word. This is not a mystery. But the Trinity is regarded as a mystery, difficult to explain and incomprehensible.
There is one God the Father! There is one begotten Son, Jesus Christ who is the express image of the Father and possesses all the attributes of His Father. Jesus is the Divine Son of God. There is one Spirit, the shared Spirit of the Father and the Son. We see two Divine beings who share a common Spirit making them one in purpose, thought and action.
Adventists need to remember that to be a remnant, they must be like the original. The founders of Adventism were strong Bible students who took the word of God as it read. They did not spend their time trying to philosophise away the plain and simple teachings found in the Scripture. The Trinitarian view is confusing, nebulous and contradictory to Scripture.
1) The Trinitarian tells us that we must understand that when the term Son of God is used in talking of Christ prior to His birth in Bethlehem, this term is used only in the sense of pointing forward to the time He would be called the Son because of the incarnation. This would apply both to the Scriptures and to the Spirit of Prophecy. However, nowhere does the Bible or the Spirit of Prophecy make such a statement. This is pure supposition. The fact is that both speak plainly that Jesus is God’s very own Son and existed as such before He ever came to this earth.
2) The Trinitarian view asserts that it was not really God’s Son who came to die for you and me, but the member of the Godhead who was playing the role of the Son. However, the Scripture clearly says “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son…” John 3:16
3) The Trinitarian tells us that three persons make up one God and because each is God in their own right, each is worthy of praise and worship, and that each may be prayed to. However, the Scripture tells us there are only two beings worthy of worship and praise, the Father and the Son. It also tells us we are to pray to the Father through the Son.
4) The Trinitarian calls the Holy Spirit, “God the Spirit”, but Ellen White or the Scriptures nowhere use this terminology.
Have Adventists spiritualize or philosophised away the plain and simple teachings of the Scriptures and adopted in their place man’s ideas of what is right and wrong?
The Trinity has come into God’s Remnant Church gradually. Today the General Conference teach that Jesus is not the literal begotten Son of God but a metaphorical son who did not actually die on the cross but was role-playing.
Today it is widely accepted to the point that when someone is confronted about its validity the response is always the same. They never even thought of questioning it.
Were the Adventist pioneers truly the remnant? If they were, then Adventists must believe that they had come out of Babylon in their teachings because that is the mark of the Remnant Church. They could not call others out of Babylon if they themselves were still in “confusion.”
It amazes me as to how far SDAs Trinitarians Pastors are willing to go to defend the serpent's theology while claiming that everything should be supported by Scriptures. The Scriptures used by S.W. & J. R. are grossly misapplied.
@@raymondwhite1754 Ellen White says they will get worse and worse just as the bible predicted it.
Not "our church" But "HIS Church" lead by HS. ( HIS Spirit) GOD in the physical realm. ( who was the "ROCK" that came forth with Living Water ) out of "Babylon" is step at a time - progressively should lead Xmas and easter behind too. 1 Four zero three Eight three zero Fortyone Twentyfour
No other doctrine lol Can u really back up Xmas and easter lol
Can't back up Xmas and easter lol
I have been a Seventh day Adventist for 37 years and have never really studied the Trinity. What is disappointing to me is the attitudes on both sides is argumentative and arrogant!! Our early church pioneers would study the Bible and prayer and seek love and unity. If there was disagreement they would go home and study and pray. They would then come back together to further discuss and ask for God to make it clear to them in the spirit of unity and love. God would make it clear to them. Why isn’t this happening today???
I have been an SDA for 39 years and when I did study the trinity topic and what the Bible actually says (and does not say) regarding it-I tried to show it to the elders and members of the church and they would not study it with us but instead had us disfellowshipped rather quickly!
It is a sad fact indeed but scripture says…
“For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.” I Cor. 11:18, 19.
I see this movement as the straight testimony causing the shaking in the church so that the sealing can take place.
The word of God is plain to all who study it with a prayerful heart. Every truly honest soul will come to the light of truth. “Light is sown for the righteous.” Psalm 97:11. And no church can advance in holiness unless its members are earnestly seeking for truth as for hid treasure. - {GC 521.3}
I am so sad reading these comments. I am relatively new to the church. I believe that God created the world through Jesus and that Jesus died to redeem me. I believe that the Holy Spirit convicts me of sin. That will do for me until I stand on the sea of glass and ky Heavenly Father explains it to me.
That's it. It's rocky now, but I hold on to the promise in John 1:5: The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness can never extinguish it. I also cling to the hope that He will command light out of this darkness (2 Corinthians 4:6). I'm still new also.
You are right with what you have said! It can be difficult, there are many controversies and there are times that I have not fully understood and these things I have called shelf items… I put them up on the shelf and don’t decide. I wait for further guidance and impressions and further deep study, so later I can pull the subject down off the shelf and decide later after it is more clear. God speed ❤
Bea EllEss. You disappointed me. I thought I was going to learn something . If everyone agrees Jesus is God then God at least can't be one God but two or a Duoinity. Maybe we will all know who or what God is really like when we get to eternity . Solomon said the conclusion of the whole matter is to fear God and keep His Commandments for this is the whole duty of man( not just Jews) . Because God will bring every work into judgment . If we knew all about God He would not be God . Just fo what Solomon says and we will one day find out. The alternative is we will be dead for ever and won't find out nothing - we won't be there if disobedient. Rev 22:11-14
@@EricHort-cx1jp Jesus is Divine because he is God's Son. (Just as my sons are human because I am.)
But Jesus is the Son of God. Not God Almighty.
you cannot stay in a church that teachers error, especially something as important as the true nature of our Father in heaven who has an only begotten SON. Think of this: The Father has an only begotten Son. Our Father /Creator put Adam in a deep sleep and removed a rib to make him a helpmate, Eve. Eve was begotten from Adam. I can't explain that but I can believe it by faith. When the Bible says that God has an only begotten Son, I can understand it by the example of Adam and Eve. The Father and Son truth is the last truth to be brought forth. As a prism splits all the colors of light, truth has been distorted and split to pieces thought out history. Beginning with the Reformation, the truth has slowly been restored and is completed now with the TRUE nature of the Father and Son. Satan has been busy deceiving, distorting and confusing the whole world, but it is over now. The knowledge of the Father and His only begotten Son is a SALVATIONAL issue. It is the TRUE Father who has a Son. The trinity teaching is so confused and convoluted and twisted. The truth about the Father (1 true God) is actually so simple a child can see it. You don't have to be a theologian. The Bible is deep enough for a theologian to drown in and shallow enough for a child to wade in. Theologians nit pick something apart until there is nothing left. Adventist leadership has said that the '3 in 1 god' decided amongst themselves who would be who, who would play which role. THAT DOES AWAY WITH A TRUE, LITERAL SON OF GOD AND WITHOUT JESUS, THE TRUE AND LITERAL SON, WE HAVE NO SALVATION. Hold your Father's hand and walk with Him in the shallow end of the pool! That's where you will find me.
Sad how far sda have fallen from truth since especially since 1980
To those seeking the truth here are some few points:
1. Always keep in mind that Satan is a literal personal being and never ever forget why he was cast down from heaven.
2. Always remember that Jesus is the literal Son of God and never ever forget why he was killed.
3. Until his death, Jesus always had a controversy with church leaders over one claim which he made : that he is the Son of God.
4. Those who believed in him believed that he was the Son of God.
5. There are many verses that agree with the following texts and repeat the same message throughout scripture. Study the bible for yourself and you will know the truth. And the truth will make you free:
"And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name"~ John 20:30-31.
"Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?" John 10:36
"The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God." John 19:7
"Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God." Matthew 27:54
"And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God" John 6:69.
"And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God." Matthew 16:16
"She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world." John 11:27.
The list is not exhaustive but notice the use of the word "Living" in some of these statements. That word denotes God is a real person not a metaphor or a collective noun referring to a group of persons or team of persons. Also notice the name Christ is linked with "the Son of God". There are many Christs out there but never accept any Christ who is not the Son of God. This knowledge is eternal life. This is the truth we all need to be saved, it is everything to us as a people. The divinity of our Saviour lies on his Sonship. Don't settle for Barabbas, a false Christ. Don't settle for son of the Father nor God the Son. Settle for the only begotten Son of God. Let no man deceive you.
"And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." John 17:3
"That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ." 1John 1:3
Amen and again Amen.
And to the blind man Christ asked,
'Dost thou believe in the Son of God?...Thou hast both seen him and It is he that talketh with thee.' John 9:35, 37.
Caiaphas commanded.
'I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God. Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said.' Matt 26:63-64
All speakers in this video agree that Jesus is the Son of God and that Satan is a literal being. The difference is that we believe Him to be an eternal Son, whereas most ATs reject the idea of an eternal Son. Inspiration is clear that the Godhead is an eternal Godhead, and the three persons of the Heavenly Trio are three eternal dignitaries. What about you? Do you believe the Heavenly Trio has always been a Trio? Or was it once a Duo that gradually became a Trio over eons and eons?
@@chrischung2365 you probably read too much from the book Evangelism which was written by an apostate man, Leroy Froom. I suggest you read directly from published books authored by Ellen White not compilations of apostate men. Compare everything with scripture. Trinity denies that Jesus Christ is the literal begotten Son of God. We were given this for a reason: only begotten. These men claim begotten means unique. Hence to them Sonship is metaphorical. This is exactly what Lucifer wanted. This is the great controversy
@@Cryaloud Froom did not write Evangelism. He wasn't even on the committee of five. Arthur White compiled Evangelism. At best, Froom submitted a few quotes from EGW that pertain to the trinity. Note the White Estate:
How the Book Evangelism Was Prepared
Since the death of Ellen White in 1915, how have compilations been prepared? The book Evangelism provides a case study.
In August 1944, representatives from the Ministerial Association of the General Conference asked the White Estate whether there was enough specific counsel on evangelism to create a volume that would give guidance in the work of evangelism. If there was sufficient material, they hoped that these counsels could be brought together and published as a single volume.
As Arthur White, at that time director of the White Estate, scanned the files, he found ample material that could be drawn together for a book of counsels on evangelism. On September 10, 1944, the Board of Trustees took the following action:
"Voted: That, in harmony with the recommendation of the Ministerial Association Advisory Council, we authorize the compilation of a manuscript, 'Counsels to Evangelists and Bible Instructors,' the work to be done by a committee of five, appointed by the chair. The committee named as follows: A. L. White, W. H. Branson, R. A. Anderson, Miss Louise Kleuser, J. L. Shuler."--White Estate Board Minutes, Sept. 10, 1944.
As the committee members planned their work, they decided that the new volume would serve best if it were complete in its coverage, using both published and unpublished sources. This would include some repetition of articles already published.
Arthur White and Louise Kleuser were named as a working team to prepare the manuscript. The plan they followed called for bringing together every item that had a bearing on the subject. Then with all the Ellen White statements before them, they organized the material and developed the manuscript. This plan minimized the influence of the compilers, allowing Mrs. White's thoughts and emphases to come through clearly in the finished work.
As Elder White and Miss Kleuser made the selections, it was easy to see where Ellen White placed the emphasis, and the general outline of the subject matter fell naturally into about 22 general divisions. In cases where there were two or more statements covering the same point, the strongest or most complete was chosen and the other laid aside. Because there could be no change in Ellen White's words, which made up the text, the items were drawn together by using side headings highlighting the main point. Side headings and subtitles are almost always supplied by the compiler, and this is generally understood.
At one point during preparation of the manuscript, Elder White sought counsel on using italics to emphasize certain parts of the manuscript. The ensuing Board action read:
"Voted: That the Trustees feel that it would be out of place to use italics to emphasize certain parts of the manuscript, and might appear to take on the form of private interpretation."--White Estate Board Minutes, July 2, 1945.
@@chrischung2365 in the book Evangelism there are words that were not written by Ellen White, we call these interpolations, and these were inserted to make her statements appear like she is trinitarian or talking about the so-called trinity which is a dangerous way of presenting her work- mixing truth with error. Those compilations leave a lot to be desired, esp on headings and subheadings.
BEWARE THAT WE DO NOT MISS THE ISSUES
1. The issue is not that Jesus is not God. Jesus is God by nature - same nature and character as His Father. But Jesus has a God who begot Him (John 1:14). Jesus has a God who anoints Him (Heb.1:9). Jesus has a God who appoints Him (Heb. 1:2). Jesus has a God who sends Him (John 17:18). Jesus has a God whose will He does (John 6:38). Jesus has a God who reveals things to Him (John 5:20). Jesus has a God who gives Him power (1 Cor. 15:27). There is concern that Jesus is being diminished. Really? It is the Father who is being diminished. He dwells in light that no man can approach unto (1 Tim. 6:16). No one anoints Him. No one appoints Him. No one sends Him. No one reveals anything to Him. No one instructs Him (Isa. 40:13). He does the will of no one but His own will. No one gives Him power. He can swear by none greater than Himself (Heb. 6:13). It is His name that the saved will have written in their foreheads (Rev. 14:1). The entire family in heaven and in earth is named after Him (Eph. 3:15).
2. The issue is not that the Father and Son are not one in the sense of being united. Jesus and His Father are one in the same sense that Jesus prayed that His disciples should be one - “that they may be one, even as we are one” (John 17:22). The Father and Son are one in the sense of being united, but they are not one in the sense of being one God. We are one with Christ and through Christ we will be one with the Father - “I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one” (John 17:23), but we will never be one God with the Father.
3. The issue is not that the Holy Spirit is not a person separate from God and Christ. Rather, it is that The Holy Spirit is sent by God and not a co-equal with God; and there is no biblical precedent of anyone worshipping the Holy Spirit.
4. God gave His only begotten Son to die for us. It was not an eternal God who cannot die, who simply came and appeared to die but, in reality, cannot die.
5. The Trinity concept is not simply that there is a Father, a Son and a Holy Spirit who are united. The Trinity concept is that the three are the one God. The Bible does not teach that the one God is three persons. Rather the Bible teaches that there is one supreme Being who is above all, and whose will governs the universe - One God and Father of all, who is above all” (Eph. 4:6). The relationship between Pharaoh and Joseph illustrates the relationship between God and Christ - one is the supreme ruler and the other is like the Prime Minister - “And Pharaoh said unto Joseph, See, I have set thee over all the land of Egypt. And Pharaoh took off his ring from his hand, and put it upon Joseph's hand, and arrayed him in vestures of fine linen, and put a gold chain about his neck; And he made him to ride in the second chariot which he had; and they cried before him, Bow the knee: and he made him ruler over all the land of Egypt. And Pharaoh said unto Joseph, I am Pharaoh, and without thee shall no man lift up his hand or foot in all the land of Egypt.” (Gen. 41:41-44). Joseph was not Pharaoh, but he was like Pharaoh, with similar authority because Pharaoh so determined. Likewise, God is the Supreme Being, with Jesus being Michael - the one who is like God, because God, his Father has so appointed Him.
The pioneers had it right, the apostles had it right, the Jews had it right - that there was one supreme Being, who sent His Son into the world. Why should God’s people today abandon the pioneers, the apostles and the Jews and embrace the popular view of paganism, Catholism and apostate Protestantism? We have a choice to come to the Father through Christ or we can do otherwise to our own confusion and peril. The choice is ours.
AMEN!!
Thanks for your study above. I always in the SOP that God determined that Christ should be equal with Him.
The acid test of every Trinity is not whether the Holy Spirit is a person or not but it's about the Sonship of Christ. A denial of the Sonship of Christ is to deny the Fatherhood of God. It's to charge God with deception that God was just acting, pretending that He is Father yet He was just acting as Father same as the the Lord Jesus Christ He was just acting to be like a Son but wasn't a real son. This is mysticism and denial of the very plain testimony of the Father that He gave His only begotten Son. John says it's the Spirit of Antichrist which denies both the Father and Son. Just like Isreal. It looks like the leaders of God's church today don't know the Son of God.
Where Jesus to ask them but whom say ye I am???
Would they bodly say like Peter that thou art the Christ the Son of the living God.
Or they will spiritualize it by saying you just acting like a Son but ur not the Son of God.
Thereby repeating the words of the enemy of God and His Christ that "if thou be the Son of God..."
Amen! This makes so much sense. All said very simply and well understood. Thank you and may Our Father GOD Jehovah bless you always.
Do you have a website? Or email?
Not sure about Jesus being Michael; You did a very good job with this.
Thanks & may the Lord be with you!
“God sent His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, liable to physical infirmities, tempted in all points like as we are. He was the Son of the living God. *His personality did not begin with His incarnation in the flesh* .” - (E.G. White, Lt77, Aug 3, 1894)
“The Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of the Father, is truly God in infinity, *but not in personality* .”20LtMs, Ms 116, 1905, par. 19
Christ’s Personality did not begin with His Incarnation, His personality continued with his incarnation. If Jesus is NOT God in personality, WHO IS GOD IN PERSONALITY?
“Our heavenly Father is the God of the universe, and Christ is the divine Son, the One equal with the Father. “. 21LtMs, Ms 49, 1906, par. 26
@Mandy-yv4sf That is correct, just like Eve was just as much human as Adam was human. Just because Adam was the head of Eve, did not make her less in any form. Just because God is the Head of Christ does not make Him less in any form.
@Mandy-yv4sf and Jesus said, …for My Father is greater than I. Jn 14:28
"The Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of the Father, is truly God in infinity, but not in personality."
This statement simply means, taking in its context. That Jesus is truly God, He is God without limit or end. He shares divinity with the Father, but He is a distinct personality, He has His own identity.
@@mikesiret5171 That is correct, Jesus is truly God, because of Him being the Son of God. Who is God in personality then? The Father.
@@francois1546 The statement is clearly stating that the Father and the Son are not the same individuals but both of them have their own personalities.
Jus' askin' Steve but,
Did Jesus Christ breathe "another person" on the Disciples or did He breathe His OWN Holy Spirit on the Disciples? See John 20:21-22
When Jesus Christ said, "Where two or three are gathered together in my name there am I in the midst." Did He mean Himself literally is in the midst of 2 or 3 or was He referring to someone else being in the midst of them? See Mat. 18:20
Did the Father anoint Jesus Christ with "another person" so that the "other person" would go about with power and doing good, healing all manner of sickness or did the Father anoint Jesus with His Spirit? See Acts 10:38
Where is, or what is, and who is the Holy Spirit in John 15:1-10?
Is Jesus Christ (AKA Michael) subordinate to His Father? See 1 Corinthians 11:3.
Does our Heavenly Father have His own Spirit and would you not consider His Spirit Holy? See 1 Corinthians 2:9-16
Do you concur with Mrs. White in DA, 112?
“Never before have the angels listened to such a prayer. They are eager to bear to their loved Commander a message of assurance and comfort. BUT NO; THE FATHER HIMSELF WILL ANSWER THE PETITION OF HIS SON. DIRECT FROM THE THRONE ISSUE THE BEAM OF GLORY. The heavens are opened, and upon the Saviour’s head descends a dovelike form of purest light,-FIT EMBLEM OF HIM, THE MEEK AND LOWLY ONE. Of the vast throng at the Jordan, few except John discerned the heavenly vision. Yet the solemnity of the divine Presence rested upon the assembly. The people stood silently gazing upon Christ. His form was bathed in the light that ever surrounds the throne of God. His upturned face was glorified as they had never before seen the face of man. From the open heavens a voice was heard saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” {Desire of Ages p. 112}
Lastly, in Matthew 16:13-17 how, or by what mechanism, did our Heavenly Father reveal to Peter that... 'Jesus' is "the Christ, the Son of the living God?"
Thank you in advance for your answers.
Hello David.
Of the baptism of Christ.
The SOP vol 3 elucidates the event much more fully. I encourage you to compare with DA, if you have not already.
If Pastor Steve read it and pondered it overnight, he would wake up bewildered and dumbfounded.
He truly then could and then should be converted to the 'old paths'.
His present sermonized depiction of the lovely event is quite antagonistic to the precious account of sister White.
THE SECOND COMMANDMENT, THE TRINITY, AND THE OMNIPRESENCE OF GOD
I always wondered what was so significant about the second Commandment that Rome found it necessary to remove it altogether from the Ten Commandments. But it appears that there is a fundamental truth in that Commandment concerning where God's presence is that is intended to protect us from all forms of false worship.
The second Commandment tells us that we should not bow down before any image. This implies that God is not in any image. Which means that God is not everywhere. The Bible tells us that God is in heaven; and heaven is not everywhere. Heaven is above the earth and that is where we should direct our worship to God, where He is. He knows everything that happens everywhere and can go wherever He pleases but His abode is in heaven where Jesus, our High Priest and intercessor, is presenting our cases to Him. - "Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens" (Heb. 8:1).
Furthermore, both the prophets Daniel and John saw God in heaven with the angels gathered around His throne and Jesus being separate and distinct (Dan. 7 and Rev. 4, 5). Daniel said "the Ancient of days did sit" (Dan. 7:9) and "one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days" (Dan. 7:13). John said "one sat on the throne" (Rev. 4:2) who was worshipped as the Creator to whom it was said "Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created" (Rev. 4:11), with Jesus appearing before Him to receive a book and power and authority, as the Lamb who was slain, while the angels sang, "Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever." (Rev. 5:13).
God is not everywhere all at once like a vapour while part of Him or an image sits on the throne representing Him. God Himself sits, of whom man was made in His image after His likeness, "made after the similitude of God" (James 3:9).
Logically, if God is everywhere, He can be worshipped wherever He is. One could then bow down and worship before a stone, a tree, a person or any object, not as worshipping the object but as worshipping God, since God is in it. That would open the door for the worship of false Gods as no one would be able to tell the difference whether you are worshipping the true God or not.
It would not be consistent to forbid worshipping before an object if God is in the object and one is worshipping, not the object, but God who is in the object. This is evident in the experience of the children of Israel in the wilderness. God appeared to them in a cloud and they were not forbidden to bow before Him in the cloud - "And the LORD said unto Moses, Lo, I come unto thee in a thick cloud" (Ex. 19:9), "And all the people saw the cloudy pillar stand at the tabernacle door: and all the people rose up and worshipped, every man in his tent door" (Ex. 33:10). If God is not in a particular place, say in an image, it means that there is at least one place where He is not. He cannot be everywhere and not everywhere at the same time.
The idea that the Holy Spirit is God present everywhere was precisely the argument that Dr. John Harvey Kellogg put forward to justify his pantheistic teachings. And Ellen White told him that he was wrong. Initially, he said that God was in everything. And when God instructed Ellen White to oppose it, he modified it by saying that at the time of his first presentation of the matter in the book "The Living Temple" he did not believe in the Trinity. Because of that, he said he had not given a clear explanation of the matter. He went on to explain that he had now come to believe in the Trinity and could better explain his idea. The new explanation was that it was not God the Father, but God the Holy Ghost who was everywhere and in everything. Ellen White told him that he was wrong. And we can see why. If God the Holy Spirit is everywhere and can be worshipped, it is a doorway to replace worshipping God and Christ in heaven entirely.
Another modified version of Kellogg's idea is that the Holy Spirit is really Christ himself or both God and Christ in an omnipresent form. This is also not correct as it places God and Christ on earth rather than in heaven.
The pioneers of Seventh-day Adventism stated in their Fundamental Principles of faith published in the 1889 Yearbook that God was everywhere present by His representative, the Holy Spirit. At face value, this would suggest that this representative is omnipresent. But it is perhaps more consistent with scripture to say that He is everywhere present by His representatives the holy spirits. Holy spirits are ministering spirits sent from heaven - "And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man." (John1:51). "Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?" (Heb. 1:14).
This is consistent with the Hebrew word ruach and the Greek word pneuma that are translated in the Bible as spirit. These words are also translated spirits, thus indicating that the Holy Spirit need not be seen as one individual being who is omnipresent but many spirit beings representing God everywhere.
From this perspective, there is no denying that the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, sent at Pentecost is a person - only not a God-being to be worshipped. Like the Angel of Revelation 18 who comes down from heaven with the latter rain - a similar occurrence as that which took place at Pentecost except more extensive - the Comforter would be seen as a messenger sent by Christ from heaven, as stated repeatedly in John 14-16. Ellen G. White describing the latter rain speaks of a mighty angel from heaven being sent to do this work and further said, "Angels were sent to aid the mighty angel from heaven" (Ellen. G. White, Story of Redemption, p. 399).
It should be noted that Jesus's warning against blaspheming against the Holy Spirit is not implying that the Holy Spirit is more to be revered than Jesus Himself. Jesus went back to heaven and promises to return to this earth to take us to His Father's house in heaven. He left the Holy Spirit to guide us until He returns. If we reject that guidance by blasheming against the the Holy Spirit, there will be nobody to guide us. The situation is similar to what God told the children of Israel in the wilderness - "Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him." (Ex. 23:20, 21). It is simply warning us not to reject the Holy Spirit's guidance. It is not forbidding us seeking to understand who the Holy Spirit is or what the Holy Spirit does.
So, there we have it. The church has now fully accepted Kellogg's idea. Ellen White said that the initial presentation by Kellogg was the alpha of deadly heresies. She said that the omega would follow shortly afterwards and would be accepted. And it did follow shortly afterwards in Kellogg's modified version, based on his acceptance of the Trinity. And the church has now fully accepted it - that God (the Holy Spirit) is everywhere and should be worshipped. So, based on current practice, Jesus is worshipped, the Holy Spirit is worshipped but the One true God is almost entirely ignored. Jesus, praying to His Father, made it clear who the "only true God" is and identified Himself as the one sent by God - "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." (John 17:3).
Nowhere in the Bible is worship given to anyone else except the one seated on the throne who is referred to as "LORD God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come" (Rev.4:8) and to the Christ, the Lamb, as it will be in the new earth - "And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it." (Rev. 21:22). God is the Father of Christ. Accordingly, Christ, the Lamb is seen with "an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads" (Rev. 14:1). It is the name of the Lamb's Father that will be written in their foreheads.
Whatever one's concept of the Godhead, the term "godhead" is used only three times in the Bible (Acts 17:29, Rom. 1:20 and Col. 2:9) and in none of these places is the expression used to replace the idea of God being a single individual who has a Divine Son who is worshipped alongside Himself. And not even once does the term "godhead" in scripture allude to the worship of anyone else.
All worship should be directed to God and Christ in heaven. It is not about where we are when we worship but, like sending a petition to the king of England, we do not send it to Spain or Australia but to him in England where he is. Similarly, Jesus in teaching us how to pray directed that we say, "Our Father which art in heaven".
We should not be praying to nor worshipping anything on earth. We should pray to God in heaven, approaching His throne through Christ, our Mediator, and we should direct our worship to heaven where God is. This is the substance of the second Commandment that Rome has removed.
All you need is the very first commandment/recommendation, and the rest are embedded on the first. Because the fundamental problem of humanity if "SELFISHNESS/GREED, AND COVETOUSNESS. Learned from the father of lies himself. How many gods are there? Plural
It is written??????? Exodus 20:2 I [am] the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
@@user-rz9yd5gx2c All the Commandments are important.
@@user-rz9yd5gx2c All Ten Commandments are important.
My question is, was Lucifer jealous of a trinity? Please give some SOP evidence.
Lucifer was jealous of the Son of God... thats why its called the Great Controversy between Jesus and His angels and Satan and his angels
Stephen Bohr did a great presentation. Called ( The risk of eternal loss )… a very deep study on this subject very clear
Are You a True Seventh Day Adventist?
Seventh-day Adventists have always believed that all their teachings should be based on the Scriptures. Yet in the 1980 General Conference session at Dallas, Texas when they officially adopted the Trinity as a teaching of Adventism they stated,
“While no single Scripture passage states the doctrine of the Trinity, it is ASSUMED as a fact… ONLY BY FAITH can we accept the existence of the Trinity.” - (Adventist Review, Vol. 158, No. 31, p. 4)
There is no other doctrine that Adventists hold that they cannot prove from Scripture. The truth about the Godhead is that it is very clear who the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are. While there are areas that one cannot understand because the Lord has chosen not to reveal that information, who we are to worship is plainly shown in God’s Word. This is not a mystery.
There is one God the Father! There is one begotten Son, Jesus Christ who is the express image of the Father and possesses all the attributes of His Father. Jesus is the Divine Son of God. There is one Spirit, the shared Spirit of the Father and the Son. We see two Divine beings who share a common Spirit making them one in purpose, thought and action.
Adventists need to remember that to be a remnant, they must be like the original. The founders of Adventism were strong Bible students who took the word of God as it read. They did not spend their time trying to philosophise away the plain and simple teachings found in the Scripture. The Trinitarian view is confusing, nebulous and contradictory to Scripture.
1) The Trinitarian tells us that we must understand that when the term Son of God is used in talking of Christ prior to His birth in Bethlehem, this term is used only in the sense of pointing forward to the time He would be called the Son because of the incarnation. This would apply both to the Scriptures and to the Spirit of Prophecy. However, nowhere does the Bible or the Spirit of Prophecy make such a statement. This is pure supposition. The fact is that both speak plainly that Jesus is God’s very own Son and existed as such before He ever came to this earth.
2) The Trinitarian view asserts that it was not really God’s Son who came to die for you and me, but the member of the Godhead who was playing the role of the Son. However, the Scripture clearly says “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son…” John 3:16
3) The Trinitarian tells us that three persons make up one God and because each is God in their own right, each is worthy of praise and worship, and that each may be prayed to. However, the Scripture tells us there are only two beings worthy of worship and praise, the Father and the Son. It also tells us we are to pray to the Father through the Son.
4) The Trinitarian calls the Holy Spirit, “God the Spirit”, but Ellen White or the Scriptures nowhere use this terminology.
Have Adventists philosophised away the plain and simple teachings of the Scriptures and adopted in their place man’s ideas of what is right and wrong?
The Trinity has come into God’s Remnant Church gradually.
Today it is widely accepted to the point that when someone is confronted about its validity the response is always the same. They never even thought of questioning it.
Were the Adventist pioneers truly the remnant? If they were, then Adventists must believe that they had come out of Babylon in their teachings because that is the mark of the Remnant Church. They could not call others out of Babylon if they themselves were still in “confusion.”
You are eternally lost without Jesus... who purchased us with His blood...
But the church is teaching that Jesus is too busy in heaven, so another person called god the holy spirit is with us instead...
You either have the Spirit of Jesus with you... or the spirit of someone else...
Act 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
We are going through the shaking brothers and sisters!! Satan is sifting us like wheat! Stay true to His word!
The Third Person is The Spirit of CHRIST
Many people have misunderstood that Ellen White taught the Holy Spirit was a separate being just because she referred to the Holy Spirit as a person. However, she was actually talking about the Omnipresent Spirit of Christ, which she described as a person, not another distinct being in the Godhead called God the Holy Spirit.
“When trials overshadow the soul, remember the words of CHRIST, remember that HE is an unseen presence in the PERSON of the Holy Spirit, and He will be the peace and comfort given you, manifesting to you that He is with you” - Letter 124, March 7, 1897; Daughters of God, p. 185.2, 1897
“Lift up CHRIST in His power in the PERSON of the Holy Spirit. He is waiting for them to open the door and admit Him.” - Letter 59, March 29, 1899
“CHRIST has left HIS Holy Spirit to be HIS representative in the world, to give celestial aid to every hungering, thirsting soul.” - Letter 84, October 22, 1895
Ellen White above states that the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ and that His own Spirit represents Himself in the world. Therefore, the next quote is also saying that the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Jesus Christ which she calls a person.
“JESUS is present in the PERSON of His representative, the Holy Spirit, reviving the hearts of the humble and contrite ones.” - Manuscript Releases 12, p. 145.2, 1898
“The HOLY SPIRIT is the SPIRIT of CHRIST, which is sent to all men to give them sufficiency, that through His grace we might be complete in Him.” - Manuscript Releases 14, p. 84
“The HOLY SPIRIT is the SPIRIT of CHRIST; it is His representative. Here is the divine agency that carries conviction to hearts. When the power of His Spirit is revealed through the servants of God, we behold divinity flashing through humanity.” - MR13, p. 313.3, 1895
“We want the HOLY SPIRIT, which is JESUS CHRIST. If we commune with God, we shall have strength and grace and efficiency.” - Letter 66, April 10, 1894
“God help us that we may be sanctified through the truth and that sanctification shall have its influence to leaven those that are around us-not the leaven of malice, not the leaven of jealousy, not the leaven of evil surmisings, but it is the leaven of the SPIRIT of JESUS CHRIST, which is sent down from heaven, called the HOLY GHOST, and that Spirit affects the heart and the character.” - Manuscript 36, 1891
“CHRIST has left HIS HOLY SPIRIT to be HIS representative in the world, to give celestial aid to every hungering, thirsting soul.” - Letter 84, October 22, 1895
“CHRIST came to our world, but the world could not endure His purity. He has gone to His Father, but HE has sent HIS HOLY SPIRIT to represent HIM in the world till he shall come again.” - Manuscript 1, January 11, 1897
I want Jesus dwelling in my heart.. not a spirit being without a body
Amen.
So the dove that came down at Jesus baptism was just Jesus coming down on Himself?
@@jonathanbaby90 Sister White describes the dove as the 'glory of the Father', and 'beams of light' emanating from the throne.
Even better than her Desire of Ages account is her revelation of the baptism as recorded in SOP Vol 3.
I encourage you to read the chapter.
Amen?
I have read and also ran into this.
Sin could be resisted and overcome only through the mighty agency of the Third Person of the Godhead, who would come with no modified energy, but in the fullness of divine power. “ DA 671
There are three living persons of the heavenly trio; in the name of these three great powers-the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit-those who receive Christ by living faith are baptized, and these powers will co-operate with the obedient subjects of heaven in their efforts to live the new life in Christ.-Special Testimonies, Series B, No. 7, pp. 62, 63. (1905). - {Ev 615.1}
Since you are reading through the SOP, I am sure you might have seen this already.
In Evangelism chapter 148.. talks about the misrepresentation of the Godhead. I suggest you read this too.
Another Rhyme
for my fellow SDA's...
Isaiah 45:21
Who is the Me
with eyesalve do I see,
Is it not He... by the olive tree?
Inside of the most holy sanctuary?
This Me is that He that sets me free,
He delivered me from the beast,
that rose out of the sea
who's god is three...such blasphemy,
he commands by decree with bended knee.
Exchange my soul?...this is his fee.
So I ask thee,
heed my plea.
Why be ye... a church pew... retiree?
Let us seek and find the He... the none beside Me.
Through him that hath...David's key.
His Son brought forth, begotten... in antiquity.
The express image of the ME...divinity.
So then ?
Shall we meet by that tree?
Beside the river we share our story, with joyous glee.
Our celebration, our triumph...
Our Jubilee.
John 14:28
King James Version
28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
This was in the context of Christ's incarnation.
@@Keating-ue6dowhere is it written so?
@@newrez2391 John 14:25 KJV
These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.
51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.
Luke 12:51, 52.
“So there was a division among the people because of him.”
John 7:43; 9:16; 10:19.
Truth appears to bring division because Satan has deceived the whole world with his counterfeits, possibly deceiving the very elect!
Revelation 12:9; 13:3-8, 14; Matthew 24:24; 2 Thess. 2:3-12.
Why isn't this presentation available on the 3abn RUclips channel? I saw it there before but I don't see it anymore...
Probably because they did not want to be overwhelmed in the comment section?
The comment section would most certainly expose their new doctrine.
The comment section would be so astir that it would awaken the curiosity of the main body of the membership.
Yes?
@@canadiancontrarian3668probably… but the truth cannot be hidden from those who seek the truth with all their hearts ❤…
@@beaelleess3892 Amen...the truth has nothing to fear.
Does 3abn fear posting this presentation?
Weak minds, Weak ministries...
Thank you Pastor Steve and Pastor James for this extensive study. I appreciate that you made it clear that there are many things about God that we cannot fully comprehend. This is where faith comes in.
,
It's amazing. You guys are wrestling with this for so many years because you're not founding your belief on Bible verses like Seventh-day Adventist due for the state of the dead and all the other doctrines. The Trinity is just assumed and guessed at and hinted at. That's why it's such a mystery . If you would just take the Bible as it reads and learn what the Bible says by taking off your Trinity glasses you might be able to understand what is being taught . You people are teaching error
" Christ could not be in every place personally: Therefore it was altogether for their advantage that he should leave them, go to his Father, and send the holy spirit to be his successor on earth. THE HOLY SPIRIT IS HIMSELF DEVOID OF THE PERSONALITY OF HUMANITY and independent thereof.
He would represent himself as present in all places by his holy spirit, as the omnipresent!
E.g.white, manuscript releases vol 14, pg 23,24. Written feb 18-19th, 1895.
1 cor 8v 6❤
Why don’t they use this quotes and many other quotes or Bible verses that are very clear who the Holy Spirit is like 2 Cor 3:17? DA is very clear about who the Holy Spirit is. We must not judge them , the son of God will judge if they are hiding the truth on purpose.
AAAAAAAAAAMEN!
@@bettyarauz9308 they can't or they would lose their jobs. You see any pastors in the church preaching Bible truth on God and Son? No. I see none. All we can do is pray for this church to find truth before God seals His people. Otherwise they will be calling for the rocks to hide them. Revelation is all about Worship.; not just when, which seems to be the focus, but more importantly, Whom. 🙏🏼
all the fluff and stuff and arguments that go on forever when the answer is clear thank you
That's a very good quote.
Do you understand what this means? Firstly, she states, 'The Holy Spirit is Himself.' Does this imply that the Holy Spirit is a person? It certainly does.
"Devoid of the personality of humanity." It was Christ who took on human flesh, not the Holy Spirit. It seems to me that she is talking about two separate individuals.
KEY QUESTION: Thomas said to Jesus, "My LORD and my GOD." John 20:28. Jesus didn't correct Thomas for speaking falsely. Rather, He said those who haven't seen Him, and yet have believed, are blessed. My question is: Can each of us commenting here say with a clean conscience, "JESUS CHRIST IS MY LORD AND MY GOD"? If so, say it below. I can repeat with Thomas. "JESUS IS MY LORD AND MY GOD." Praise His name! A holy angel told John that only God is to be worshiped. See Revelation 19:10. When Jesus ascended to heaven, it is written about His disciples, "And they worshiped Him." Luke 24:51,51. He is my God.
are we SPIRITUALIZING certain text and throwing out the rest of the BIBLE
JESUS worships his FATHER
SHOWS FAITH TOWARDS HIS FATHER
SURRENDERS TO HIS FATHER'S WILL
DIES FOR HIS FATHER'S SALVATION PLAN
SURRENDER - what does SURRENDER MEAN
we know the REBELLIOUS ONE DIDN'T want to SURRENDER
this focal point of SPIRITUALIZING CERTAIN TEXT like the ONE PROJECT DID
is SPIRITUALISM
I pray non adventist see this
and others finish the work the way our church is
we are almost captured in the OMEGA
JESUS did SURRENDER
that has to mean LOWERING ONESELF
TO THE MOST HIGH
it is what it is - we can't remove the HOLY BIBLE MEANING
This has already been answered you, Elder.
Steve, by reading your KEY QUESTION, I can see you truly do not understand the viewpoint held by so called non-Trinitarians.
Thomas could rightfully call Jesus his Lord and his God, just like we do, because Jesus as the Son of God, is exactly that, our Lord and our God.
Jesus is not less God than His Father, just because He is submissive to His Father, the One who is the God of the Universe.
“Our heavenly Father is the God of the universe, and Christ is the divine Son, the One equal with the Father. “. 21LtMs, Ms 49, 1906, par. 26
If you accept the last part of this statement you need to also accept the first part.
EQUAL means just that, and, The Father being the one sitting on the Throne of heaven as ”The God of the Universe” should also not be denied.
1Co 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and* the head of Christ is God *.
Is a wife a lesser person or lesser human than her husband, because he is the head of the home. No she is not.
Is Christ less God because The Father is the Head of the Universe? No He is not.
Our Mediator is the true Son of God, as confirmed by God the Father Himself, and also has by inheritance the Name of God and could therefore be called rightfully called God.
Jesus as Mediator or Ambassador, is the Personification of God, and when Christ therefore speaks it is The Almighty, The Ancient of Days, The Only true God etc. speaking.
Jhn 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Jhn 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.
Please do not make the statement that we believe that Jesus is LESS God than His Father publicly again, you might have been doing this ignorantly, but I believe if you persist you will be judged.
Rom 3:7 For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?
Amen, François Clear and Biblical, not cherry picking
Why did u start by praying to the father ? What about the other two
Phil 2:5-.8 He did not fight to prove that He was equal with God. But another MIND thought it worth fighting over to be (want to be) equal with God!!
Paul under the influence of the Holy Spirit wrote many statements where he plainly states that God is the Father..but that doesn't diminish the divinity of Christ. “To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour. ”
Titus 1:4 KJV. Do we suppose now that the bible contradicts itself? How readeth we?
"Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ." ~Philippians 1:2
“Grace be to you and peace from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ. ”
2 Corinthians 1:2 KJV
“Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort; ”
2 Corinthians 1:3 KJV
“And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. ”
Philippians 2:11 KJV.
There are many such statements in the new testament, I mean many..
Maybe to remove the confusion we should stay with the Biblical term Godhead and let the Roman Catholic Church and Protestant Churches keep the term Trinity: thus removing the possibility of confusion.
Yes...and what does our Bible teach of the word Godhead?
Do you care to explicate the said term?
Do we submit to a theologians definition? Or should we allow scripture to instruct us?
I hope you are not under the mirage that the term is a community of membership...are you?
What's the difference, it's still confusion. Three GODS. Jesus says in John 17: 3 "that they might know thee the ONLY TRUE GOD, and Jesus Christ who thou hast sent. "
Blessings 🙏🙏🙏
Here is an excellent quote by Uriah Smith (quoted by Chris Chung): "This union between the Father and the Son does not detract from either, but strengthens both. Through it, in connection with the Holy Spirit, we have all of DEITY. Uriah Smith, 1898 UrS, LUJ 17.1
Thus, according to Smith, "DEITY" is revealed through the fullness of the Father, His Son, and the Holy Spirit. Paul wrote that "in Him [in Christ] dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily." Col. 2:9. This means that when we look at Jesus, we see "the fullness" of the Godhead embodied in Him. Alleluia! As Thomas confessed, so do we. Jesus Christ is "my LORD and my GOD." John 20:28
Yes. Deity. Godhead. Divine nature. This has long been established.
We are not dealing with the nature of the Deity (Godhead). We are dealing with the personality of God and the personality of Christ. Major difference. The Bible and SoP both well-establish that the one God of Scripture is the Father Who sent His only-begotten Son that we mught live through Him 1 John 4:8-9.
God is one person. Not three. To claim otherwise is to subscribe to the Roman Catholic Trinitarian creed.
Thank you Pastor for standing for Jesus when many would wish to take his crown of glory and make him a mere human prophet of God.
@@Watchman_on_Zion777 Amen.
@@larrybedouin2921 lies and bearing false witness … no body said this - you are creating a paper tiger… and clearly have not studied the subject well enough to actually represent the non trinitarian position. I’m ok if you disagree with the position of the non trinitarian concept but don’t make up false accusations- that itself is satanic… lies and misrepresentation…. Even if you disagree man.. don’t make stuff up about what you don’t understand/comprehend or don’t wish to clearly understand
@@larrybedouin2921 At least there is not a single SDA Trinitarian or so called Non-Trinitarian that believes that Jesus is not fully God.
Blasphemy against the Divine Person of The Holy Spirit is not forgiven, which means it leads to eternal loss
Why the Psalm 2:11 say, "Kiss the SON, lest He be angry, and PERISH from the way, when His wrath is kindled but a little.
Isn't that that blasphemy against Christ the SON of GOD?
What is sin against the Holy Spirit?
@@francois1546 Sin against GOD is to "call evil good, and good evil, that put darkness for light, and darkness for light. ( Isaiah 5:20). GOD calls it rebellion (1 Samuel 15:23).
For example, in Matthew 12:24 the Pharisees called Jesus a son of the devil. They called Jesus evil, therefore that is blasphemy.
Also blasphemy is to continue in sin, and ignore the voice of GOD. Eventually you become immune to His voice and you don't feel remorse for sin.
If you feel bad about sin, then you have not committed blasphemy against GOD.
Therefore, ask GOD to give you hatred towards sin, and at the same time make a decided effort to stop separate from it. GOD will give you victory over any besetting sin!!!
Blessings 🙏🙏🙏
The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen.
2 Corinthians 13 : 14
1. Lord Jesus Christ
2. God
3. Holy Ghost.
There is One God in that verse, the Father!!!
Where does it mention the Father?
But although Christ’s divine glory was for a time veiled and eclipsed by His assuming humanity, yet He did not cease to be God when He became man. {5BC 1129.3}
He shared the lot of man; yet He was the blameless Son of God. He was God in the flesh. His character is to be ours. {DA 311.4}
"GOD" IN THE SENSE OF NATURE.
@Mandy-yv4sf ???
Don't let your mind turn off and try to make some sense.
@Mandy-yv4sf Can you explain the DA 311.1?
If Jesus is identified as God and Jesus is also identified as the Son of God...
He is two persons then?
@Mandy-yv4sf You did not answer Canadian's question, sister. "Jesus" cannot be both Himself and someone else. The Bible and EGW continually distinguish "GOD" from "CHRIST"; they are not the same person.
@@BrightBeamsMissionThe Son is God
No more comments posted?
IDENTITY of the Holy Spirit is revealed in Scripture. Do you have eyes to see and ears to hear?
“Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.”
Acts 20:28
Only Christ purchased us with His own blood. The Holy Spirit IS the Spirit of the Father and the Son:
“Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.” 2 Cor. 3:17
“And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.”
I Corinthians 15:45
“Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest MYSELF to him.
22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and WE will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.”
John 14:10, 20-23; 17:20-23.
“And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of HIS Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.”
Galatians 4:6
“But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.”
Romans 8:9
Another example of WHO the Holy Spirit is-is found in 3 parallel verses:
“Don’t worry beforehand…but whatever is given you in that hour, speak that, for it is not you who speak, but the Holy Spirit.”
Mark 13:11
“…for it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you.”
Matthew 10:19,20
“Therefore settle it not in your hearts not to meditate beforehand on what you will answer; for I (Jesus) will give you a mouth and wisdom which all your adversaries will not be able to contradict or resist.” Luke 21:14,15.
Compare these 2 verses:
“But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.” John 14:26
“My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:” I John 2:1.
The word Comforter and Advocate are from the same Greek word-parakletos. In other words, Jesus Christ is our Advocate with the Father; Our Comforter-the Holy Spirit. It is Christ in us, the hope of glory…no other Person can take the place of our one Mediator.
Amen.
One God is the same as One Godhead (the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit)
The Word for God in Hebrew Elohiym is a plural word. Thus the word God can be used to describe them singularly or collectively.
The eternal Godhead-the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost-is involved in the action required to make assurance to the human agent.”-Upward Look, 148.
If Elohim is plural why was Moses called Elohim and he is not plural? Also the verb that follows the noun Elohim is singular. Also in Gen 1:26 Elohim said Let us make man and SOP states in EW 145 that the “when God said to His son Let us make man to our image …” it s clear that God, the Father, was talking to His son, Jesus.
Please study the word Godhead from scripture just 4 verses you will see the picture. It never refers to Father, Son, Holy Spirit. If you wanna argue try read Colossians 2:9 then when you want to understand more go to 2 Peter 1:4, Acts 17:29 and Romans 1:20
@@bettyarauz9308 Peter says in Matthew 16:16 that CHRIST is the SON of the LIVING GOD. Does that mean that Jesus Christ is the SON of GOD the Father, GOD the SON and GOD the Holy Spirit?
Should John 3:16 say For the GODHEAD so loved the world that the GODHEAD gave THERE only begotten GODHEAD, that whosoever believeth in part of the GODHEAD should not perish.?
@@johnnydo5658 it is very clear in the scriptures who God is and that is our loving Father and Father of Our Savior Jesus Christ who we worship and adore because the Father said so because He is the only begotten (born ) of the Father. The One that is His exact image, glory and nature. I praise the Father and the Son only.
ELOHIM is used with singular pronouns, so it is plural of majesty.
The way you are using the EGW quote is not in line with Scripture, which teaches that the SON has all the fullness of the GODHEAD. He is not the persons of the FATHER and the Holy Spirit.
John 14:28
'For my Father is greater than I'
But God will have a people upon the earth to maintain the Bible, and the Bible only, as the standard of all doctrines and the basis of all reforms. The opinions of learned men, the deductions of science, the creeds or decisions of ecclesiastical councils, as numerous and discordant as are the churches which they represent, the voice of the majority-not one nor all of these should be regarded as evidence for or against any point of religious faith. Before accepting any doctrine or precept, we should demand a plain “Thus saith the Lord” in its support. GC 595.1
Satan is constantly endeavoring to attract attention to man in the place of God. He leads the people to look to bishops, to pastors, to professors of theology, as their guides, instead of searching the Scriptures to learn their duty for themselves. Then, by controlling the minds of these leaders, he can influence the multitudes according to his will. GC 595.2
It amazes me how people are ignoring the Fact that these pastors are quoting scripture to define this and they still want to argue that these pastors are lying!😮 God have mercy! Thank you James and Steve for this clearly Biblical message!
Some people seem to believe that arguing against well established, verifiable and plainly obvious facts makes them "appear intelligent".🙄
They are so enamored by their self appointed "intellect" they fail to recognize their abject stupidity.🫤
It's called the "Dunning Kruger Effect" wherin an individual is incapable (due to a profound lack of intellect) to recognize that they are, in actual fact, idiots.😐
Satan's widespread nonsense is at the root of it and it's going to get much worse in the very near future.
Dealing with these individuals is a true exercise in patience.
❤️🥰❤️
@@bmaxdlux3169 As in arguing against our 'well established, verifiable and plainly obvious' fundamental principles of 1872 ?
Agreed.
It is an exercise of futility to argue against the eternal platform and original pillars of our church...Right?
These pastors don't discuss 1 Cor 2:10-11, or John 5:26.
These pastors are not giving the full story.
@@revelation1790 Amen.
Two focal texts amongst others in our Bible, that our Heavenly Father foreordained to tower as a contradistinction to the ideology of the present 'new organization'.
Yes?
May God have mercy on us.
Precept upon precept is somewhat diff than line upon line ( which is more literial tx) Precept - is that its appointed unto to man "once" to die. The 2nd death is warned of Rev 20. Also 1st reserection in Rev 20 is NOT stating that only "one" reserection in the entite Bible. Lazuruis was reserected too. 1 reserection is in contex with the actual Ch. Note - did Lazuruis die the 2nd time after being reserected. Lots falsely assume that Lazuruis die again. But that is NOT stated.And why did JESUS ascend from Bethany? And prior to assention Lazuruis was NOT found at the dinner party why ? So precept upon precept. Lazuruis was "caught up too" like Enoch. Both were found worthy? We should NOT base a doctrine on 1 or even 2 simliar verse. But upon 2 or more tx. Plus precept. UCG ( Armstrong) also anti- trinitarian - believe only JESUS went to heaven John 3:33 which is out of contex JESUS was talking to Nicodemous about spiritual/ heavenly theology. No there is NO santa claus - NO others did NOT go to heaven and see various things ( they are deceived) 1 Four zero three Eight Three zero Fortyone Twentyfour Math 27:52-53 hapoened 1st century AD is Rev 14:4 First Fruits all are youtful virgins again 1 Cor 15:53. And 1 Thes 4:14 "Sleep comes with HIM" v 15-17 dead and alive ( we are the next event part of the great multide over 1993 yrs ( but lukewarness is warned of- few are chosen ) NO false teachers and MSM will NOT tell us the real truth No UFO etc did NOT take a few. So 2 witnesses are sent Rev 11 so that others Rev 20 "those beheaded" may then be caught up too. Not just the 2nd coming. Enoch in first 1000 yrs. Etc. JESUS stated "coming again" There are 7 events 3 on each side of the cross like the Menorha . Zeck 14 NO resetection from Mt Olives V 5 "saints" ( asleep, dead and alive, etc ) from 3rd heaven Marriage Supper Ambasdors already chosen when they come with HIM to reign for 1000 yrs Rev 21 nee begining is even 8th event.
Pastor Steve's comma argument regarding 1 Corinthians 8:6 is one of the most rediculous conclusions I have ever heard any Adventist come up with. First, verse 4 is a clear reference to the One God of Deut. 6:4, who Paul identifies in verse 6 as the Father. Second, the "One God the Father" is not just a statement, but He is immediately identified as the "of whom are all things"= the Father is the source of everything, verified in Desire of Ages page 21 as "the great source of all." Next, it was a blatantly false statement that anti-trinitarians do not believe in the third person of the Godhead- I can assure you we do, we just don't believe what you say it is, so please don't misrepresent us and it would sure be nice to hear a retraction! Finally, one must scratch his head in disbelief in using such tactics to identify those "sincerely deceived"- who is the one really deceived when you can't believe the Bible as it reads?
“And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding, that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.”
I John 5:20
@@ericfolks1503 Amen!
Does the church have Bible conferences where persons who research the scriptures can share their findings as scholars in other disciplines are able to do at academic conferences to extend the frontiers of knowledge? If they exist, they are largely unknown or not open for general participation, which explains why, although knowledge in other areas of study are advancing, the knowledge of scripture is limited, with old questions remaining unanswered and new ones creating confusion and uncertainty. Can interested persons come together and plan a Godhead Conference where all ideas concerning the subject can be aired and interrogated?
Pastor Wohlberg @ 22:50 recounts the baptism of Christ and iterates that the dove that descended upon Christ was a third person.
Whereas when we read from the pen of sister White,
'Direct from the throne issue the beams of His [Father's] glory. The heavens are opened, and upon the Saviour's head descends a dovelike form of purest light. ' DA 112 par 1.
Also,
'As the glory of God encircled Him [Christ] and the voice from heaven was heard, John recognized the token which was promised.' DA 112 par 4.
Likewise,
'The glory that rested upon Christ is a pledge of the love of God toward us.' DA 113 par 1.
'The light which fell from the open portals upon the head of our Saviour will fall upon us if we pray for help.' DA 113 par 1.
So we learn by the writ of inspiration that the Holy Spirit at the baptism was, the light of God and the glory of God.
Beams of the Father's glory.
Dovelike form of purest light.
Glory of God encircled Him.
The glory that rested was a pledge of love.
The light that fell is also available to fall upon us.
We do not read another third person.
Do we?
It's true we don't read of a third person in DA 112, but we do in DA 671 when she wrote that the Holy Spirit is "'the third Person of the Godhead." Both statements are true. The Holy Spirit is the light and glory of God, and He is also the Third Person of the Godhead. His nature is a mystery. We can figure it all out. We must accept what is written, and let God explain it to us when we get to heaven!
@@SteveWohlberg7 Thank you Pastor Steve for touching on DA 671. For in the very same paragraph sister White explains who the third person is.
You are aware of this, no?
The vows which we take upon ourselves in baptism embrace much. In the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit we are buried in the likeness of Christ's death and raised in the likeness of His resurrection, and we are to live a new life. Our life is to be bound up with the life of Christ. Henceforth the believer is to bear in mind that he is dedicated to God, to Christ, and to the Holy Spirit. He is to make all worldly considerations secondary to this new relation. Publicly he has declared that he will no longer live in pride and self-indulgence. He is no longer to live a careless, indifferent life. He has made a covenant with God. He has died to the world. He is to live to the Lord, to use for Him all his entrusted capabilities, never losing the realization that he bears God's signature, that he is a subject of Christ's kingdom, a partaker of the divine nature. He is to surrender to God all that he is and all that he has, employing all his gifts to His name's glory.
SURRENDER TO GOD - OR TRIUNE
did JESUS SURRENDER TO FATHERS WILL ?
is it making JESUS LESS because he SURRENDERED TO FATHERS WILL
THIS TRINITY SCIENCE REMOVES IMPORTANCE OF WHAT JESUS DID AND HIS FAITH
WOHLBERG needs to study what BAPTISM IS
Don’t take ANY person above the Bible. Mrs White straight out said to not take her writings above the Bible. See my comment about Genesis 1:1 in the Hebrew language. God was clear from the start that there are 3 who are God.
These people are agents of Satan. They have not sound judgement, neither can they see clearly
To be completely honest I was a little upset or maybe concerned is a better word, when our church (world church) began using that word, "Trinity," because it took my mind straight to Rome and it's teachings, but... praise God for this message that was so needed for this time.
Thank you God for making this sooo clear to me. Thank you Ps Wohlberg , Ps Rafferty and 3ABN for a wonderful presentation. May God continue to bless you in your ministry and bless our church worldwide to come together in unity with Jesus Christ. Amen
We have been using the word "trinity" since the days of EGW.
@chrischung2365 -- Really? I had no idea. I have always heard the term or expression, The Godhead." I guess I was totally wrong in thinking we adopted it. Pardon my ignorance.
@chrischung2365 who has? Did it start with Kellog and Froome? It was certainly not the other pioneers
@@Rosie916Rangi non trinitarian leaders usually only tell their followers about Froom and Kellogg for obvious reasons. Be a good Berean or you'll be deceived.
"The doctrine of the trinity is true when rightly understood." --Stephen N. Haskell (SDA pioneer), Bible Training School, Feb. 1, 1906
@@bernadette6025 "“For the benefit of those who may desire to know more particularly the cardinal features of the faith held by this denomination, we shall state that Seventh-day Adventists believe,- 1. In the divine Trinity. This Trinity consists of the eternal Father, a personal, spiritual being, omnipotent, omniscient, infinite in power, wisdom, and love; of the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the eternal Father, through whom all things were created, and through whom the salvation of the redeemed hosts will be accomplished; the Holy Spirit, the third person of the Godhead, the one regenerating agency in the work of redemption.” (F. M. Wilcox, Review and Herald, 9th October 1913,)
I enjoyed the Zoom meeting on the Godhead. It was a good presentation.
Amen
1. Father is always higher than a Son
2. Jesus said: His Father is the only true God (Jo17:3) and Paul said: But for us there is but one God, the Father.. and one Lord, Jesus Christ.
3. Bible said: In the beginning was The Word (Jesus) Jo1:1. He is begotten of His Father, ofcourse He must have a beginning, but the Father.
4. Bible said: God is Spirit (Jo4:24). SoP said: "We want the Holy Spirit which is Jesus Christ" Lt66 1894 par. 18.
Let us believe those things which are revealed unto us.. Deu29:29
Godhead according to the Bible, not today's Adventism..... refer to Acts 17:29, Romans 1:20, Colossians 2:9.. It won't matter what translation you use. Compare them all. You will be surprised that IT IS NOT the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. It is not a membership. You've been lied to for decades and to those before you. Ellen White prophesied in 1903 that a new organization would come in. And that happened in 1904, when it became the General Conference CORPORATION of Seventh--day Adventist. Sadly, Steve Wohlberg along with all the other mainline name brand pastors are going to suffer the plagues more than their followers because they are falsely teaching and won't come out of Babylon.
John 20:17
What more can you say... Jesus prayed to His Father, and ascended to be with His Father, at the right hand of the throne... Jesus breathed the Holy Spirit upon His diciples.... I like you stick tyo what the Bible says...
There is no mystery in Christ's teaching
"And then the golden harps are touched, and the music flows all through the heavenly host, and they fall down and worship the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit." EG White Ms139, 1906 para 32.
Worship belongs only to God
Ellen White did NOT write the statement “worship the Father and the Son and the Holy
Spirit.” Not only did she not write it, but she never had a chance to examine and review it
prior to publication. The reason being it was published 100 years after her death! This
means the statement does not belong in her “published works” which she reviewed and
approved. As a matter of fact, the stenographer’s shorthand notes are not even available
(the stenographer is unknown). Only the typed copy of the sermon exists3
(the typist is
unknown). The next question we need to ask ourselves is this: is the statement an accurate
report of what she said? To answer this question we only have to examine her published
writings and compare them with this report. After all, this is what she instructs us to do if
we truly desire to know what the Lord revealed to her.
@@77Overcomers And another question...
If and since it is not her statement, one is constrained to inquire as to why it would even be [ much later on] wrote up?
It kind of reminds one of the similar history of the Johannine Comma. [1 John 5:7 KJV]
Right?
Here is her statement from YI July 7, 1898 pg 199 “The Father and the Son alone are to be exalted.” This quote harmonize with the Bible in Revelation chapter 4 & 5 is given honor and worship only to the Father and the Lamb.
Who is that God?
Are we worshipers of Jehovah, or of Baal? of the living God, or of idols?
No outward shrines may be visible, there may be no image for the eye to rest upon, yet we may be practicing idolatry. It is as easy to make an idol of cherished ideas or objects as to fashion gods of wood or stone. Thousands have a false conception of God and His attributes. They are as verily serving a false god as were the servants of Baal. 👉Are we worshiping the true God as He is revealed in His word, in Christ,👈 in nature, or are we adoring some philosophical idol enshrined in 👉His👈 place? God is a God of truth. Justice and mercy are the attributes of 👉His👈 throne. 👉He is a God of love👈, of pity and tender compassion. Thus 👉He👈 is represented in 👉His Son, our Saviour.👈 👉He is a God👈 of patience and long-suffering. If such is the being whom we adore and to whose character we are seeking to assimilate, we are worshiping the true God. 5T 173.3 - 5T 173.4
@@Watchman_on_Zion777 Amen to this very direct quote.
You can't get much clearer than this study. Thanks Steve and James.
I suggest you study the bible and SOP for yourself. Do not accept anything but a plain: "Thus sayeth the Lord."
@@Cryaloud I think they used the Bible and SOP, did you not listen ?
@@billhendricks5375 My point is that you don't cherry pick verses and passages that seem to suit your stand point as doing so would mean the rest of the scriptures and SOP statements that plainly give more light on the issue are deliberately ignored or downplayed. The bible never contradicts itself and I believe Ellen White wasn't conflicted either. So the best approach is to bring all evidence from scripture and let the bible be it's own expositor. It never contradicts itself. This is what we do if we want to establish truth. Remember this trinity only came in 1980 and this church has been standing on truth and led by the Holy Spirit from the great disappointment. Also Ellen White never changed her position about the personality and individuality of God and the Son of God.
@@billhendricks5375 Some of the parts they do not want to acknowledge :
“God sent His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, liable to physical infirmities, tempted in all points like as we are. He was the Son of the living God. His personality did not begin with His incarnation in the flesh .” - (E.G. White, Lt77, Aug 3, 1894)
“The Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of the Father, is truly God in infinity, but not in personality .”20LtMs, Ms 116, 1905, par. 19
Christ’s Personality did not begin with His Incarnation, His personality continued with his incarnation. If Jesus is NOT God in personality, WHO IS GOD IN PERSONALITY?
“Our heavenly Father is the God of the universe, and Christ is the divine Son, the One equal with the Father. “. 21LtMs, Ms 49, 1906, par. 26
*@billhendricks5375:* - *In Conclusion:*
Hence the “1904 faith” that Ellen White said that the “omega” would lead Seventh-day Adventists away from the God-given non-trinitarian faith.
“Be not deceived; many will depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils. We have now before us the alpha of this danger. The omega will be of a most startling nature.” SpTB02 16.2 ‘To Leading Physicians’, ‘Teach the Word’ Nashville, Tennessee, July 24th, 1904
*By making a confession of the trinity doctrine, [Harvey Kellogg was admitting to believing something that up to that time [1903] no other pioneer of Seventh-day Adventism had ever publicly confessed. It was therefore a heretical confession.*
*Ellen White warned:* - *"Those who seek to remove the old landmarks are not holding fast; they are not remembering how they have received and heard. Those who try to bring in theories that would remove the pillars of our faith concerning the sanctuary, or concerning the personality of God or of Christ, are working as blind men. They are seeking to bring in uncertainties and to set the people of God adrift, without an anchor."* 20LtMs, Ms 62, 1905, par. 14
*In 1904 Ellen penned the following:* - *“The fundamental principles that have sustained the work for the last fifty years would be accounted as error.* - *‘A new organization would be established.’ ‘Books of a new order would be written.’ ‘A system of intellectual philosophy would be introduced’…Nothing would be allowed to stand in the way of the new movement. Their foundation would be built on the sand, and storm and tempest would sweep away the structure.”* Selected Messages Book 1-Page 204, 205, 1904
*1980* - The General Conference files on May 7th for a trademark of its name Seventh-day Adventist. “SDA” is trademarked now as a commercial entity. *The G.C. hires a Catholic lawyer to trademark various names, including “Seventh-day Adventist” under commercial law. This is the first time a Protestant church denomination appeals to the “State” for the protection of its name.* This move comes from former pastors and/or leaders forming other groups bearing the same or similar name as a result of separating themselves from the apostasy that is happening within the main body. They are therefore labeled as “off-shoot” movements as they attempt to hold to the foundation given to the original SDA church before all the changes over time.
*1981* - *Neal C. Wilson, General Conference President, announces that the Church has officially adopted the Trinity doctrine, which is now number 2 in the Church’s 27 Fundamental Beliefs. He declares before the Seventh Day Adventist church that: "...there is another universal and truly catholic organization, the Seventh-day Adventist Church."* Adventist Review, March 5, 1981, p 3.
*1981* - Adventist Review, July 30th - Special Issue on Bible Doctrines - *The Trinity doctrine is explained one year after it was voted as an official doctrine* [which was in 1980]. It states, *"While no single scriptural passage states formally the doctrine of the Trinity, it is assumed as a fact by Bible writers and mentioned several times... Only by faith can we accept the existence of the Trinity."* (p. 4)
Can Pastor Steve please give explanation to Proverbs 8:22-30?
EGW expounds on this passage beautifully and let’s us know that the Son has existed from ALL eternity:
Christ was God essentially, and in the highest sense. He was with God from ALL eternity, God over all, blessed forevermore.
The Lord Jesus Christ, the divine Son of God, existed from eternity, a distinct person, yet one with the Father. He was the surpassing glory of heaven. He was the commander of the heavenly intelligences, and the adoring homage of the angels was received by Him as His right. This was no robbery of God. “The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his way,” He declares, “before his works of old. I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was. When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water. Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth: while as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world. When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth” (Proverbs 8:22-27). . 1SM 247.3-1SM 247.4
@chrischung2365 Ellen White writings are not doctrinal authority and thus have no weight in determining doctrine according to 2 Timothy 3:16. The Bible alone is sufficient to determine doctrine
If we don't have God's holy spirit.. we have nothing..He is our teacher.. call no one father . Or teacher...only The Holy spirit is our teacher.. John ❤
I'm right with you guys on the Trinity, but I don't think I can listen to James since hearing that he will no longer have anything to do with Ty. Is it true, and if so, why?
Amen 💯 praised God 3 abn
The Holy Spirit is the most unselfish member of the Godhead because He does not seek His own. He works to lift up Jesus. Jesus in return left in His hands to deliver to Him a church without spot or wrinkle. smile THE HOLY SPIRIT IS GOD!
So the other two are more selfish 🤣
@@francois1546 Or are the other 2 less unselfish?🤔😉
Who is the MOST unselfish?
Is the FATHER the MOST SELFISH? Well HE is called the HIGH (Mark 5:7)😂😂😂
Using your logic, the Holy Spirit should be the most selfish, because the HS does not forgive Mathew 12:31,32.
Total Confusion..
It is what is expected in the end times...
My heart pain listening to this
I understand.
Matthew 28 is been added in the Bible they only baptized in the name of Jesus " God can not die that is why he send his son Jesus " how can The Spirit be a person if God gave it to Jesus .
Glory Hallelujah 🙌
Seven Thunders. My apologies. I should have said the third Person of the Godhead that is in SW 1905 Nov 28. She refers to the Holy Spirit as Christ's representative on earth as a gift to the disciples . In all three persons
Where can we get the books you are offering in Australia? Please let me know. 🙏
The holy Spirit is not a person. the holy Spirit is God spirit
God's spirit hovered over the water
Jesus The Lord Thy God
Luke 4:2 Being forty days tempted of the devil. And in those days he did eat nothing: and when they were ended, he afterward hungered.
Luke 4:12 And Jesus answering said unto him, It is said, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
Luke 4:13 And when the devil had ended all the temptation, he departed from him for a season.
Nowhere in all these verses does it mention that the Father or anyone else was being tempted.
In fact verses 1 and 2 identifies Who was being tempted. Jesus was being tempted to jump.
It is evident from the above that Jesus THE LORD THY GOD was being tempted.
Christ (God) the Rock
In Exodus and Numbers, Christ provides water from the rock for his people. In 1 Corinthians, Paul identifies the rock as Christ.
1 Corinthians 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
Psalm 18:2 The LORD [is] my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God, my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler, and the horn of my salvation, [and] my high tower.
1 Samuel 2:2 [There is] none holy as the LORD: for [there is] none beside thee: neither [is there] any rock like our God.
Genesis 1:1 in Hebrew, “God” is in the PLURAL form. Not singular or dual forms. Unlike English, where plural is 2 or more, Hebrew has 3 forms-singular, dual and plural. Thus 3 is the least # of Beings Who are God.
Scripture uses ELOHIM with singular verbiage; the plurality is in majesty.
I pray for Pastor Steve and Pastor James, that they will open their hearts to allow Christ, through His Holy Spirit, to reveal the truth to them before our SDA probation ends. Have a blessed day, we are going home soon.
Yes - beautiful. 🙏🏼
"The doctrine of the trinity is true when rightly understood."
--Stephen N. Haskell (SDA pioneer), The Bible Training School, Feb. 1906, pg. 156
@@chrischung2365 I could care less about Mr Haskells opinion on the trinity. Do you know what his understanding was on how it is rightly understood? If not, I suggest that is only propaganda for you.
Revelation is primarily about WHO we are to worship. When the Bible, and when Ellen White says "God", both are speaking of the Father. When in refence to Jesus its either referring to Him as the Son of God, or to His divinity which was imparted to Him from His Father (and the Word was God). It will often be accompanied by singular pronouns such as He, Him, His. Only has the Bible used us, we, or they when it's obviously speaking about another. Let us - Creator God, the Father, speaking to the Word, His begotten Son about the creation of man. But for us, there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in Him, and 1 Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by Him.v1Cor 8: 5-6. And God doesn't speak in this way to His Holy Spirit, because it is His Spirit. "Let us" in no way refers to a Trio.
Revelation is clear, we are to worship the Father, and the Son, who gives glory unto His Father. We are to pray to the Father, in the Sons name. Sister White even said, we only worship one God, the Father (1Cor), through His Son Jesus who is the only way to that one God (Jn 14:6).
I highly recommend doing a thorough study of God and the Son strictly in Revelation. Good study, I am just getting into now. God is making it abundantly clear to us, His creation whom He dearly loves, exactly who He is, who His Son is, and who we are to worship, as it is of vital importance. The GC has said, Ted Wilson specifically, that the trinity doctrine must be taken strictly by faith. It is not a thus saith the Lord doctrine. Nowhere in the Bible can you/we point to anything that supports the 3 are 1 God, coeternal, coequal. No God the Son, God the Holy Spirit. The Son of God, and the Holy Spirit of God and of Jesus Christ His Son. Simple and biblical.
@@BgSkyGrl1 John 5:7 KJV
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
Isn't that wonderful?
@@Keating-ue6do it is! And what are they “one” in? 😃
Are you aware, the Bible research “department” for the SDA church advises NOT to try and use this text to support the trinity?? Apparently they can see easily, that when taken in context it is very antitrinitarian.
Please, one of the first things we learn is, always take scripture in THE CONTEXT with which it is GIVEN. So I recommend a study of chapters 4 and 5, or even the entire book. The 3 are 1 with giving testimony that Jesus is the Son of God.
And don’t stop with 7. The context just keeps on in the following text, so we have 3 in heaven that are 1 [bearing witness or record], and then we have 3 on earth that testify , the Spirit, the water, and the blood, and these 3 agree [are in agreement, agree as 1, agree with each other].
Beautiful testimony to Jesus, being the only begotten Son of our Lord, God Almighty.
Give me another, if you’ve got one? Have you heard, a leader from the GC has honestly said, Fundamental Belief #2 must be taken by faith. Study out all the scripture in the 2015 FB for #2 the trinity, and you will find them lacking any relationship of three being one god. It is not there because it is a man made construct, with its origin in sun worship, including Sunday worship.
Amen, and Amen!! Thank you so much,, it’s so clear in scripture, and you presented it so clear. Praying for those who don’t see it that God will open their eyes! 🙏
Maybe it will be a good idea to rewrite the Bible for those who refuse to see and who persist that we must understand the Bible "As It Reads" and not spiritualize the word of God, so that they can also accept the 1981 philosophical viewpoint of who God is.
I do not understand why they persist that just because EG White stated that the 1872 fundamental principals was given by the unquestionable authority of God, that we should not rip out the old pillars and replace them with the 1981 more progressive believes.
Let us start by changing a few scriptures to make it easier for them.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of the three of us which is in heaven.
That is already better, leaving "My Father" in there seems to Suggest that He is the One That sits on the throne as the Sovereign, and God of the Universe.
1Jn 4:9 In this was manifested the love of The Trinity toward us, because one of them were picked to became a metaphorical, role playing, only begotten Son and sent Him into the world, that we might live through him.
Now they will understand the manifested love of the Trinity better and not focus so much on the Fathers love.
Zec 6:13 Even he shall build the temple of the LORD; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon their throne; and he shall be a priest upon their throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between the three of them.
The word "BOTH" is so confusing
1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Trinity, of whom are all things, and we in them; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
That is better, now the will no longer confuse the Father as the SOURCE of ALL.
1Jn 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Trinity.
Much better, more confusion deleted.
1Ti 2:5 For there is one Trinity, and one mediator between two God’s and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Had to make that TWO GODS, it is illogical that Christ can be the Mediator between Himself and man.
Eph 4:6 One Trinity and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
don't quite make sense, but I am sure they are to blind to notice.
I just realized that it is going to be a huge endeavor, and so many other complete texts and parts of scripture like 1 Corinthians 15:24-28 and large parts of Revelation will also have to be completely removed.
And then there is still the writings of EG White that will have to be changed, and all her warnings about the fact that the Fundamental Principles will be changed after her death, and that the Father will be removed as Sovereign and a new definition of who God is will replace Him.
“There will be, even among us (Adventist’s) , hirelings and wolves in sheep’s clothing who will persuade the flock of God to sacrifice unto other gods before the Lord. …The ungodly, the despisers that wonder and perish, who despise the sovereignty of the Ancient of Days and place on the throne a false god, a being of their own defining, a being altogether such an one as themselves-these will be agents in Satan’s hands to corrupt the faith of the unwary.” 6LtMs, Ms 6, 1889, par. 42
“Our heavenly Father is the God of the universe, and Christ is the divine Son, the One equal with the Father. “. 21LtMs, Ms 49, 1906, par. 26
Let us just hope they stop studying themselves and rather start doing what most Adventists do and listen to youtube and get all their knowledge second hand from preachers like Steve, and on Sabbaths from their local church.
… we have studied and prayed and prayed over this subject for YEARS and we are all people who used to believe the false doctrine of the Trinity and have come out of this to understand clearly what the Bible teaches about God, his truely only begotten son(like the Bible says) and the Holy Spirit, and the since the pioneers ALL unanimously believed as non-trinitarians they understood all her writings in the light of this doctrine that she called a Pillar and a belief that makes us what we are (or were in those days) as SDA’s. The first angels message is the message tied to this beliefs to understand WHO God is- the Doctrine of God. The SDA church lived through this 1st angle and came out with the proper understanding of who God is - because they RECEIVED the first angels message…
@@francois1546 beautiful illustration of the disaster the trinity is. I Love it. And yes, Revelation would pretty much have to be throw out, considering it is primarily about who we are to worship.
😢🎉🎉 I believe there's going to be a special place in hell for you people that deceive the masses as you do .
Open the eyes to what? all the falsehood that these demons in human form trying to lead you to self deception? Can you blame them if you don't inherit eternal life?
The following states best what I have recently come to believe what the Bible actually teaches in this regard; I am still in the learning mode, and my heart longs for truth in this matter: "Matthew 28:19 is a biblical passage sometimes misunderstood with regard to the Trinity doctrine. Jesus is quoted as telling His disciples, "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in ['into,' Greek eis] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit." Remember the important principle that the Bible interprets the Bible. What this particular passage shows us is that the process of baptism and entering God's family involves the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. It is not a description of the nature of God.
Notice Acts 2:38: "Then Peter said to them, 'Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." After real repentance and being baptized, the example from Scripture is that a minister lays his hands on the repentant person and he or she receives the Holy Spirit directly from God (Acts 8:14-17).
Important as it is, baptism alone is not sufficient. We must receive God's Holy Spirit-the seed of eternal life-which is imparted by the biblically mandated laying on of hands of one of God's ministers (Acts 19:1-6). We cannot partake of God's nature, as mentioned in 2 Peter 1:4, without first being begotten of the Father by the Holy Spirit, which imparts that divine nature.
Why are Father, Son and Holy Spirit mentioned in Matthew 28:19? Let us understand. At baptism we enter into a covenant relationship with God the Father. The sacrifice of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, makes that covenant relationship possible. (Of course, through our repentance and baptism we also enter into a relationship with Jesus Christ as our older Brother and head of the Church.) The Holy Spirit is the means by which the Father and Son make all of this possible.
On another level, God the Father is the One who calls us to baptism and a new way of life (John 6:44, John 6:65), and it is His goodness that leads us to repentance and baptism (Romans 2:4). We know also that Jesus Christ died as a sacrifice for our sins, reconciling us to God (Romans 5:6-11)-baptism picturing our burial with Jesus Christ and our being raised to a new life with Him both now and in the future resurrection (Romans 6:1-5). And God's Holy Spirit, as we will see more in a later chapter, is what makes us God's begotten children (Romans 8:16).
The instruction in Matthew 28:19 presumes that, before being baptized, believers will learn of God the Father, His Son Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit. At baptism, these believers enter into a personal family relationship with God the Father and the Son through the Holy Spirit, thereby receiving the name of God (compare Ephesians 3:14-15).
Note again that Father, Son and Holy Spirit are all acknowledged as being involved in this process. But that does not mean all three are divine persons in a Trinity. To claim that Matthew 28:19 establishes one God in three persons goes far beyond the actual words of the verse. And other verses show such a notion to be utterly false."
Matt 16:17 ❤
Maybe the confusion is cause by this word 'Trinity" not in the bible but created by man.
They do a great job explaining the Godhead.
Pastor Wohlberg @ 14:10 states that 'Our pioneers opposed that version of the TriNnity'.
This then intimates that they held to another version.
What version was that?
When we investigate our church history, we find that our founders held to no version. Their outright forsaking of the said doctrine was comprehensive.
Was it not?
They accepted a trinity once EGW made it clear that there is a third person of the Godhead in Desire of Ages(1898). Prior to this period, we were generally binitarian leaning in the sense that we believed in two divine persons and rejected the idea of a third person of the Godhead as heretical. Note:
“I was in the same place that Brother Daniells was, and was taught the same things [that Christ was the beginning of God’s creative work, that to speak of the third person of the Godhead or of the trinity was heretical] by authority, and without doing my own thinking or studying I suppose [sic] I was right. But I found out something different.” (1919 Bible Conference Transcripts, July 6, 1919, 58.)
Here's Haskell affirming a true trinity:
"The doctrine of the trinity is true when rightly understood." --Stephen N. Haskell (SDA pioneer), Bible Training School, Feb. 1, 1906
"The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are one and receive worship. Each one represents all the other members of the *Trinity [or the Godhead GROUP overall]...[but] Gabriel was only an angel bearing a message from the great *Trinity of heaven, and could not receive worship [Rev. 19:10; Rev. 22:8-9]"
---S.N. Haskell, The Bible Training School, November 1907, No. 6, pg. 94
"It is evident that the Holy Spirit is one of the *Trinity, and fully represent God [the Father] and Christ, and the *Trinity [or the Godhead GROUP overall]; and appears in any form or shape, or without form or shape, as best answers the purpose of God"
---S.N. Haskell, The Bible Training School, 1910, Vol. 9, No. 7, pg. 13
I think Steve Wohlberg has a cherry tree on his property
@@johnnydo5658 I could not refrain from a chuckle.
You got me.
When we investigate SDA Church history, we do fine more than one version. Haskell wrote: “The doctrine of the trinity is true when rightly understood. They are one in nature, one in purpose, and so perfect is that union, that Christ said, ” I and My Father are one.” (S. N. Haskell, The Bible Training School, February, 1906; pg 156)... This is the "other version," which is the correct version, based on Scripture, not Catholic speculation.
@@SteveWohlberg7 Thank you Pastor Steve.
You reiterate a much used quote that is posted frequently by Chris Chung.
Whereas we can find an abundance of statements by many pioneers that are plainly non trinitarian. All within the formative and established SDA years of the 19 th century.
Would you like the references?
The nature of the Holy Spirit is a mystery. Men cannot explain it, because the Lord has not revealed it to them. Men having fanciful views may bring together passages of Scripture and put a human construction on them, but the acceptance of these views will not strengthen the church. Regarding such mysteries, which are too deep for human understanding, silence is golden.
The office of the Holy Spirit is distinctly specified in the words of Christ: “When He is come, He will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment.” John 16:8. It is the Holy Spirit that convicts of sin. If the sinner responds to the quickening influence of the Spirit, he will be brought to repentance and aroused to the importance of obeying the divine requirements. . AA 52.1-AA 52.2
Excellent presentation on the topic. It must grieve the heart of God to see His professed followers championing error and distracting people from the Three Angels' Messages.
You can’t preach the three angels message if you don’t know who God is. God is not a Trinity but a personal God-The Father who is the Great Creator and the Great Legislator and the source of everything and everyone.
@@bettyarauz9308
You forgot this.
For *by him* were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
{Colossians 1:16-19}
@bettyarauz9308 just answer a couple questions please. Do you believe salvation is by grace through the blood of Jesus Christ and that one Must come to Jesus in order to get to the father? Do you beleive the holy spirit "regardless of what it is" is the means by which man is convicted of sin and by which man is guided into truth?
@@sharidandan4172 amen and amén
@@sharidandan4172 If you truly believe as scripture states that we are complete in Christ you will acknowledge that to be complete in Christ, we also need His very own Spirit, and not the spirit of a third party that knows nothing of overcoming Sin
“It is not safe to catch the spirit from another. We want the Holy Spirit, which is Jesus Christ. 9LtMs, Lt 66, 1894, par. 18
“The same Jesus that walked with his disciples, that taught them upon earth, that toiled and suffered in his human nature, is with us in his divine power. He is at our right hand to help in every emergency. ” RH January 24, 1893, par. 3
“The Saviour has not promised His followers the luxuries of the world; their fare may
be plain, and even scanty; their lot may be shut in by poverty; but His word is pledged
that their need shall be supplied, and He has promised that which is far better than
worldly good, -- the abiding comfort of His own presence.” (Ellen G. White, The
Desire of Ages’, page 367, ‘Give Ye Then to Eat’)
“The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ, which is sent to all men to give them sufficiency, that through His grace we might be complete in Him.” - (Ellen G. White, 14 Manuscript Releases, p. 84)
“Cumbered with humanity, *Christ* could not be in every place personally; therefore it was altogether for their advantage that *He* should leave them, go to *His* Father, and send the Holy Spirit to be His successor on earth. The Holy Spirit is *Himself*, divested of the personality of humanity, and independent thereof. .” [John 14:26; 16:7.] 10LtMs, Lt 119, 1895, par. 18
The Holy Spirit is Christ Himself, if you catch it from any other, it would be unsafe. Satan is more than happy to give you the alternative that changed Philadelphia into Laodicea .
Read Early Writings page 55 onwards, we receive the Spirit from Christ Himself or from Lucifer, the only diffrence between the two possible spirits is LOVE.
Job 11 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
⁷ Canst thou by searching find out God? canst thou find out the Almighty unto perfection?
⁸ It is as high as heaven; what canst thou do? deeper than hell; what canst thou know?
The above statement was said by one of Eliphaz the Temanites friend, Zophar.
In 42nd chapter same verse, verse 7, the Lord had this to say...
“And it was so, that after the LORD had spoken these words unto Job, the LORD said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends: for ye have not spoken of me the thing that is right, as my servant Job hath.”
- Job 42:7 (KJV)
If Zophar had spoken the thing that was right of the Lord as his servant Job has said .. Would not the Lord himself have acknowledged this?
Is it a hard thing to search God and find him unto perfection?
According to the Lord himself speaking to the prophet Jeremiah, this is what the Lord says...
Jeremiah 29 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
¹³ And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.
¹⁴ And I will be found of you, saith the LORD: and I will turn away your captivity, and I will gather you from all the nations, and from all the places whither I have driven you, saith the LORD; and I will bring you again into the place whence I caused you to be carried away captive.
“Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?”
- John 14:9 (KJV)
God was revealed through his son... How then can a man say what Zophar said is something that is true on Job 11:7?
Excellent Bible study
Steve , If Jesus was created as some would suppose the word begotten implies, EVEN GOD COULD NOT MAKE HIM GOD. You have to be God to be God!!!
If Trinitarians believe the Holy Spirit is that third divine being of the Godhead, why Stephen ONLY SAW God the Father and Jesus, where’s the Holy Spirit? Notice what the Bible says: Acts 7:55-56 KJV
But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and SAW the glory of GOD, AND JESUS standing on the right hand of God, [56] And said, Behold, I SEE the heavens opened, and the SON OF MAN standing on the right hand of GOD.” Should the Holy Spirit be on the left if he a person who exists? Trinitarians need to sit down somewhere with this foolishness and stop adding him in Father and Son verses in the Bible for example: John 10:30 KJV “I and my Father are one.” I have heard Trinitarians add the Holy Spirit into this verse.
It is very clear in Hebrew Chapter One that Christ inherited his name (God) from his Father. . .by vertue of His Sonship before the world was Christ inhirited His Godhood(Godhead/Divinity) for he was broughtforth from His father. .(Prov. 8:22-30) but the Trinity destroys Christ literal Sonship by saying he was coequal, coexistent,coeternal, so on and so forth. .Therefore, trinity claim to be no literal Father and Son only a metaphor. . .
Amen.
The inheritance of Christ is a lovely theme to dwell upon.
@@canadiancontrarian3668 If Christ made all things, He existed before all things. The words spoken in regard to this are so decisive that no one need be left in doubt. Christ was God essentially, and in the highest sense. {1SM 247}
Christ is God in the highest sense.
Non of the verses supports a trinity
To me it's simple. It's very clear reading in the KJV. People tend sometimes to want to make things harder to understand.
Except that...
The word Godhead means 'divinity'.
Godhead does NOT mean a membership of three.
god is the great i am and "there is none like me ". there is only one god in the universe . so then who is jesus and the holy spirit ? answer-- well then they would have tobe part of the god head (trinity). all three in one and one in all three--simple
Fundamental Beliefs # 2,3,4,5 gives us sufficient understanding about the Godhead. While we don't know everything , we do have enough of an understanding of the matter to form a belief upon .
You have alot of beliefs
@@staffan144 We do. That is why we can support from the bible what we believe !!!!!!
@@rodneysmith3578 "the essential thing is learning that you do not know"
@@staffan144 If you wish to be taught , just let me know !!
How about fundamental principles numbers 1 and 2 in 1872 and 1889. It explains it perfectly.
They even go so far as saying sda is Babylon and we worship another God aka basically satan
The Bible defines who it is that sits on the throne in heaven as the ruler of the universe, the Bible also defines who the Lamb is, that stands in front of the God of the Universe. Christ Himself defines Who is the Head of All. Even EG White defines who the God of the Universe is, and it is not a God as defined by mans philosophical reasoning.
Dan 7:9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire....13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
“Our heavenly Father is the God of the universe, and Christ is the divine Son, the One equal with the Father. “. 21LtMs, Ms 49, 1906, par. 26
“There will be, even among us (Adventist’s) , hirelings and wolves in sheep’s clothing who will persuade the flock of God to sacrifice unto other gods before the Lord. ... The ungodly, the despisers that wonder and perish, *who despise the sovereignty* of *the Ancient of Days*and place on the throne a false god, a being of their own defining, a being altogether such an one as themselves-these will be agents in Satan’s hands to corrupt the faith of the unwary.” 6LtMs, Ms 6, 1889, par. 42
If youy replace a scriptural defenition with a human definition, you are not an agent of God.
Follow man as your master, or Follow the ONLY Master Jesus Christ, and His very own Spritual Manifestation, His Holy Spirit.
@@francois1546 That is quite the statement !
The 6LtMs, Ms6, 1889.
Isaiah 6:3 "And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.”
Rev 4:8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.
“Did you catch that? That’s one “holy” for each person of the Godhead!“
“The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, the three holy dignitaries of heaven, have declared that they will strengthen men to overcome the powers of darkness.”-5 Bible Commentary, 1110. (Manuscript 92,1901).
"Not everyone that saith Lord Lord, shall enter into the kingdom.' Matt 7:21
'Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.' Matt 25:11
So then by your same line of reasoning, there are two Jesus's here.
Is not your holy, holy, holy claim outright silliness?
It is.
@@SevenThunders-si4ci Holy! Holy! Holy! Isaiah 6:3, Rev 4:8
You are born unto God, and you stand under the sanction and the power of the three holiest beings in heaven, who are able to keep you from falling. 7MR 267.2
Here's a nice song for you to sing throughout the day.
Holy, Holy, Holy!
Lord God Almighty
Early in the morning
Our song shall rise to Thee
Holy, Holy, Holy!
Merciful and mighty
God in three persons
Blessed Trinity!
That is unsound doctrine, true doctrine is well explained and discussed- the triune or Trinity God is not… it must be accepted by faith …
@@beaelleess3892 "We art children of a Father with "all comfort" in his holding; Jesus is our
"Elder Brother" and his blood for us he gave; While the Holy Ghost, "the Comforter," each heart by truth is molding. So the great, *TRIUNE JEHOVAH is omnipotent to save; he ls building mansions" for us... as children, we obey him. And the
"image" and the 'likeness" lost, by grace shall be restored"
---Signs of the Times, January 6,
1904, Vol. 30 (No. 1), pg. 1
"It is the devil's plan to create division, conflict, and problems...", 50:13 Did not our Lord Jesus Christ say in Matthew 10:34-39 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. (35) For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. (36) And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. (37) He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. (38) And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me. (39) He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it. Amen. The Bible is given for Reproof. I pity the souls you mislead.
That's why we say "God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit."
The principle of Love points, even proves, the Trinity! There’s no back door into heaven.
Exodus 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I Am That I Am: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I Am hath sent me unto you.
During the eons, even before the creation of the angels, heaven and earth, Love existed! How can that be without there being others? So, logic would say, there was at least 3, in service to each other! In Love!
This is the way!
Human logic cannot figure out GOD. You are thinking in terms of time. GOD is beyond time.
@@BrightBeamsMission Yes! God is beyong time, matter, and space!
@@paulchalmers4392 In other words God can't be love because there are no other beings.
The bible says God is Love. Love can't be separated from God. The very essence of Him is Love. It has it's source in Him.. God's Love is not based on external things whether some other being exists or not. You making God depend on other things external to identify His personality, character. God is Love, without Him there would be no Love. For Love is Himself. It's not depended on anyone else.
Did God cease to be Love when for a tym He was separated from Christ at the Cross but rather a demonstration of LOVE.
Final note:::
God is Love.. His Personality, His Character doesn't depend on your existence. That's why His Law is eternal as it is.
If God depends on things external or He has made to be who He is then if those things are not in existence then God becomes selfish and can nolonger be the Love anymore.
Check ur ideas of what constitutes Truth. God is Love and He changes not
How come Zechariah 6:12,13 says that the counsel of peace was between "THEM BOTH " and not between the three, or the Trinity?
Jesus says in John 15:24 "they hated BOTH ME and MY FATHER." Did Jesus forget "God the Spirit."
Why Paul says in 1 Timothy 5:21:"I charge thee before GOD and the LORD JESUS CHRIST, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things..." Did Paul forget God the Holy Spirit?
Why Paul says in Acts Chapter 20:28 to take care of " the flock, which the Holy Spirit hath made you overseers , to feed the church of GOD which HE has PURCHASED with HIS BLOOD."
Did the Holy Spirit purchase us with his Blood? Isn't the Holy Spirit a spirit without flesh?
Did not Jesus Christ shed His blood for us and told Peter to take care of the flock?
Why did John call the Holy Spirit an IT in 1 John 2:27?
Amen.
The Bible is quite clear about the Godhead but when the Bible speaks about God it doesn't always say which one so when the Bible mentions God we don't have to assume it is just talking about the Father. When God appeared to Moses at the burning bush and Moses asked what was His name God told him, "I am." It wasn't until later on in John 8:58 that we found out it was Jesus the "I AM" the self existent one, the Almighty God as in Revelation 1:8.
@@7ashoBeam Except that the Almighty of Rev 1:8 is none other that the Father. It is explained in Rev 1:4-5.
Please read the said verses and get back to us.
Good?
@@canadiancontrarian3668 In the following verse, who appeared to Abraham? The Father or Jesus?
And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the ALMIGHTY GOD; walk before me, and be thou perfect. Genesis 17:1
@@7ashoBeam Then why Jesus says in John 14:1 " Believe in GOD, believe also in ME." Which GOD is He talking about, the FATHER, the SON or the HOLY SPIRIT?
When the Devil says in Luke 8:28 " What have I got to do with you, Jesus, THOU SON of the MOST HIGH." Which GOD is the devil referring to?
John 17:3 and 1 John 5:20 Jesus and John say that His FATHER is Only true GOD.
Does that refer to the Father,Son, or Holy Spirit?
Jesus Mighty God (Isaiah 9:6) Revelation 1:8 is referring to the Father as the Almighty God. If you read the context . Verse 4 describes The Father as the ONE which IS, WAS, and which is to COME.
Verse 8 Jesus Christ is saying that he is Alpha and Omega, because the Almighty says so.
The Spirit Is Not N Person, Luke 24 : 39,40
The Bible and EGW clearly declare countless times that GOD is a person, either by direct declaration or by distinguishing 'GOD' from 'CHRIST', who is the SON OF GOD, not GOD Himself.
To take obscure quotes and unbiblical arguments to try to disprove this original SDA teaching is doing a great disservice to GOD, His Word, and His people. The majority are in apostasy on this matter; blind are leading the blind. Thankfully, more people are starting to see the truth, but it is sure sad to see the disunity and sin that have come from departing from our original faith.
@Mandy-yv4sf I'm careful with my words. He is not personally GOD. The Bible declares He is personally "the SON OF GOD" and "with" the personal GOD; He can't be more than one person (the son of someone and with someone as well as that same someone). Please understand this. However, because He is the SON OF GOD, He perfectly represents GOD and shares the nature of GOD; thus, He can be called "GOD," as Thomas was doing. He says, "If ye have seen Me, ye have seen the FATHER."
Thank you Pastor for sharing this inspirational message of the Trinity !
The Father is the one true God !
May Yashuah continue to bless your ministry!📖
Don't forget Jesus:
"Others will say: “I was a heathen in heathen lands. You left your friends and comfortable home, and came to teach me how to find Jesus, and believe in Him as the only true God. I demolished my idols, and worshiped God, and now I see Him face to face." CHS274.1
@@chrischung2365 Amen. Thanks Chris!
@@chrischung2365
Amen Chris , We Can’t forget JESUS!
Your right JESUS is GOD!
Blessings!
@@chrischung2365 Even in that quote "only true GOD" is referring to the FATHER. Why use obscure quotes to try to make EGW say something she never believed? The MESSIAH is the one true GOD, the FATHER, in essence. If we see Him, we see the FATHER.
John 17:3
'And this is life eternal, that they might know thee one true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent'
Pr. Steve-
It seems that you are like Jacob wrestling with God. God has revealed His truth but to find it and accept it one must be willing to give up everything to purchase that “Pearl of great price.” No one denies there are 3-that’s not the issue. There is no “diminishing or demotion” of Jesus Christ-He is fully God and equal to the Father -because the Father made it so. John 5:23, 26.
No one is calling Jesus a “lesser God” as you say but what did Jesus say about this?
“…I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.” John 14:28.
This same word is translated as “elder” in Romans 9:12. The Father is elder/greater than the Son because Jesus “came forth from the Father” and was begotten-not just “unique” but BORN of God. See Matthew 3:17; John 3:16; 8:42; 16:28; 17:8.
Jesus is a mighty God but He is not the Almighty Father.
When Jesus said, “I and My Father are one” He explains that it is the Spirit of the Father in Him and Jesus’ Spirit abides in the Father and it is Their Spirit that abides in Their servants. See John 10:30, 38; 14:10, 23; 17:21-23.
RE: Matthew 28:19- the disciples baptized in the Name of Jesus, not 3-see Acts 2:38.
Question: when your spirit is “troubled within you” is it ANOTHER spirit-??? Or is it YOUR spirit? When God says, “My Spirit shall not strive with man forever…” He means HIS Spirit not another spirit. See I Cor. 2.
46:07-You said: “the Holy Spirit receives from Jesus and then gives the things of Christ to us…” that makes 2 Mediators and we know there is only one-Jesus Christ.
Take the Bible as it reads and you will find truth…but first, you must take off your “trinitarian glasses” which is not easy to do!
“…the first to speak seems right,
until someone comes forward and cross-examines.” Proverbs 18:17 niv
Also John 8:42,
I would like counsel regarding how to interpret what ellen white meant when she wrote that Jesus is God in infinity but not in personality. How am i suppose to understand this?
Good question.
What it means and how it reads to me is that...
Christ, by virtue of being begotten, is the 'material' [EGW] of God, his Father.
Yet Christ is not identified as God, nor declares the title of God...of who is... his Father.
How about fundamental principles numbers 1 and 2 from 1872 and 1889. They really tell a lot.
One True God is God the Father.
"The Scriptures clearly indicate the relation between God and Christ, and they bring to view as clearly the personality and individuality of each...God is the Father of Christ; Christ is the Son of God. To Christ has been given an exalted position. He has been made equal with the Father. All the counsels of God are opened to His Son." ~Ellen White 8T 268
There is no one who can explain the mystery of the incarnation of Christ. Yet we know that He came to this earth and lived as a man among men. The man Christ Jesus was not the Lord God Almighty, yet Christ and the Father are one. The Deity did not sink under the agonizing torture of Calvary, yet it is none the less true that "God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life." Ellen White, 18LtMs, Ms 140, 1903, par. 28
“That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. ”
1 John 1:3 KJV
“And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. ”
John 17:3 KJV
“25 O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me. 26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them. ”
John 17:25-26 KJV
“19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness. 20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life. 21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen. ”
1 John 5:19-21 KJV
These are great comments. Thank you. I'm really hoping that pastor wohlberg will respond to this. I've seen a couple of his videos and I don't think he really has answered questions like these. I may have missed it but this statement from Ellen white is pretty powerful when talking about God and who he is
@@1888gospelpreacher Yes sister White does use the precise word of 'material' of God, when describing what he is formed of.
Clear that ur confuse my brothers
One God 1Cor 8 : 4,5,6
Sound Doctrine!
As is Sunday worship for Sunday keepers. Sound Doctrine has at least one scripture to back it up. Any scripture you can think of that states Three persons form a singular God. Sunday keeping comes from assumptions, so please do not quote an assumption.
@PastorJay-R.-bj2mg For sound doctrine we need sound scripture, so please, share all you’ve got. Maybe reference the 2015 Fundamental Beliefs under #2? Let’s give it a go 😃
Sorry but what I watched were only half-truths. These two Pastors were only peddling their TRINITARIAN MYTHS!
leonlearsigarcia1900, you will be proven wrong in the end, you will see!
Speaking of half truths, can you share one non trinitarian video where the existence of the following statement is made known to their viewers?
“ For the benefit of those who may desire to know more particularly the cardinal features of the faith held by this denomination, we shall state that Seventh-day Adventists believe,- 1. In the divine Trinity. This Trinity consists of the eternal Father, a personal, spiritual being, omnipotent, omniscient, infinite in power, wisdom, and love; of the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the eternal Father, through whom all things were created, and through whom the salvation of the redeemed hosts will be accomplished; the Holy Spirit, the third person of the Godhead, the one regenerating agency in the work of redemption.” (F. M. Wilcox, Review and Herald, 9th October 1913,)
And the LORD said, *My Spirit shall not always strive with man* for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
{Genesis 6:3}
They angered him also at the waters of strife, so that it went ill with Moses for their sakes:
*Because they provoked his Spirit* so that he spake unadvisedly with his lips.
{Psalm 106:33}
In all their affliction he was afflicted, and *the angel of his presence* saved them: in his love and in his pity he redeemed them; and he bare them, and carried them all the days of old.
But they rebelled, *and vexed his holy Spirit* therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them.
{Isaiah 63:9-10} (Ps 78:40-41)
*The Spirit of God hath made me* and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.
{Job 33:4}
Cast me [David] not away *from thy presence* and take not *thy holy Spirit* from me.
{Psalm 51:11}
(The holy Spirit is omnipresent)
Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?
If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.
If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea;
Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me.
{Psalm 139:7-10}
Then was *Jesus led up of the Spirit* into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
{Matthew 4:1}
“And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: *but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him* neither in this world, neither in the world to come.”
{Matthew 12:32} (Mark 3:28-29)
“And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you *another* [of the same kind] Comforter that he may abide with you for ever;
Even *the Spirit of truth* whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; *for he dwelleth with you* and shall be in you.”
{John 14:16-17}
"But the Comforter, which is *the Holy Ghost* whom the Father will send in my name, *he shall teach you* all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever *I have said* unto you.”
{John 14:26}
“But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause.
But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, *he shall testify* of me:”
{John 15:26-27}
“Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, *the Comforter* will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
And when *he* is come, *he* will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:”
{John 16:7-8}
(This is why grieving the holy Spirit cannot be forgiven if we do not allow him to convict us of our unrighteousness.)
(The holy Spirit is omniscient)
“Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, *he will guide you into all truth* for *he shall not speak of himself* but whatsoever *he shall hear* that *shall he speak* and *he will shew you* things to come.”
{John 16:13}
And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, *as the Spirit gave them utterance*
{Acts 2:4} (read verses 1-3 also for context)
(The holy Spirit is omnipotent)
But Peter said, Ananias, why hath satan filled thine heart *to lie to the Holy Ghost* and to keep back part of the price of the land?
Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? *thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God*
And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.
{Acts 5:3-5}
[Steven] Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, *ye do always resist the Holy Ghost* as your fathers did, so do ye.
{Acts 7:51}
Then *the Spirit said unto Philip* Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.
{Acts 8:29}
While Peter thought on the vision, *the Spirit said unto him* Behold, three men seek thee.
Arise therefore, and get thee down, and go with them, doubting nothing: *for I have sent them*
{Acts 10:19-20}
As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, *the Holy Ghost said* Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.
{Acts 13:2}
For *it seemed good to the Holy Ghost* and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
{Acts 15:28}
Now when they had gone throughout Phrygia and the region of Galatia, *and were forbidden of the Holy Ghost to preach the word in Asia*
After they were come to Mysia, they assayed to go into Bithynia: *but the Spirit suffered them not*
{Acts 16:7-8}
*The Spirit itself* beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
{Romans 8:16}
Likewise *the Spirit* also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but *the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us* with groanings which cannot be uttered.
And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints *according to the will of God*
{Romans 8:26-27}
Now I beseech you, brethren, for the Lord Jesus Christ's sake, *and for the love of the Spirit* that ye strive together with me in your prayers to God for me;
{Romans 15:30}
And *grieve not the holy Spirit of God whereby ye are sealed* unto the day of redemption.
{Ephesians 4:30}
But God hath revealed them unto us *by his Spirit* for *the Spirit searcheth all things* yea, the deep things of God.
For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, *but the Spirit of God*
{1 Corinthians 2:10-11}
But all these worketh that *one and the selfsame Spirit* dividing to every man severally *as he will*
For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
For *by one Spirit* are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into *one Spirit*
{1 Corinthians 12:11-13}
Now *the Spirit speaketh expressly* that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
{1 Timothy 4:1}
Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,
Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.
{Hebrews 3:7-9}
How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through *the eternal Spirit* offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
{Hebrews 9:14}
Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
{Hebrews 10:29}
“He that hath an ear, let him hear what *the Spirit* saith unto the churches.”
{Revelation 2:7; 2:11; 2:17; 2:29; 3:6; 3:13; 3:22}
And *the Spirit* and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
{Revelation 22:17}
It seems to me that the Bible is very, very clear on this issue. I have had trouble understanding the controversy because it is so clear. It seems to me that people who don't understand the clear reading of the Word are LOOKING for things to misinterpret. They make it unnecessarily complicated.
So then clearly speaking, the triple god is complicated and very unclear.
Yes?
Yes my brother and i have deleted that comment. No excuses.
All throghout the Bible the word GOD means Elohiym which is plural not singular in Hebrew . One God is.' Ehk- awd " as in one flesh, one people AND ONE GOD (plural)
Please sit down with leaders from the One-God/Father&Son movement and discuss your differences. I would like to see how you answer each other as regards to these passages.
I have done this with a number of these leaders.
@@SteveWohlberg7 Thank you Pastor Wohlberg for answering my comment directly. I was wondering, have you recorded these discussions so that we can view them? I would really like to see leaders from both camps in the Church sit down and discuss this issue on video so we can see and hear it for ourselves. Watching a video from one side and then the other feels like people are just talking past one another instead of having a true dialogue.
@@SteveWohlberg7 bring the discussion in public. Record it and upload it to RUclips so we can all watch it and hear it please.
@@bourgeois4494 Please get Pastor Steve's book that he wrote on the topic where he addresses the claims that many of these leaders have made.
@@bourgeois4494no he has never done a video with anyone who questions his views ….
❤ Daniel 9v24-27