Exploring The Trinity: One God or Three? Pastor Doug Batchelor
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- Опубликовано: 22 фев 2024
- Exploring The Trinity: One God or Three? Pastor Doug Batchelor
Bible Question of the Week.
"Is God One or Three? "
Is The Holy Spirit A Person?
Is God One or Three?
with Pastor Doug Batchelor
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Keep up the good work Doug Batchelor. God has blessed our church with your insite.
What he said is dangerous, because it’s not true! You need to study for yourself, believe a lie and be damned!
@@bobbi2235 Oh? Can you show what he said is dangerous?
God be with you forever Ps Doug. One God, one Love. Unity, Unity, Unity. What is not in will never come in and only God is in for ever and ever. Amen.
Amen,praise God
Thank you so much Pastor Doug
God bless
Three Ellen White quotes on the identity of the Holy Spirit: "Cumbered with humanity, Christ could not be in every place personally; therefore it was altogether for their advantage that He should leave them, go to His father, and send the Holy Spirit to be His successor on earth. The Holy Spirit is Himself divested of the personality of humanity and independent thereof. He would represent Himself as present in all places by His Holy Spirit, as the Omnipresent." (Ellen G. White, 14MR 23.3, 1895). "We want the Holy Spirit, which is Jesus Christ." (E. White, Letter 66, April 10, 1894, par.17-18). “The Holy Spirit is the SPIRIT of CHRIST; it is HIS REPRESENTATIVE. Here is the divine agency that carries conviction to hearts. When the power of His Spirit is revealed through the servants of God, we behold divinity flashing through humanity.” - (E.G. White, 13MR 313.3, 1895)
Amen she’s says a lot on that!🙏🏼
Have you read the large number of quotes of sister White showing that the Spirit of Christ in us is the Holy Spirit, as the Bible says (John 14:18; John 20:22; 2 Corinthians 3:17; Galatians 2:20; Ephesians 4:6, etc)?
Don't rely on ambiguous quotesof EGW like those of Paul regarding the law.
@@Edupier Read Romans 8... the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ- it's Jesus. I also gave you three explicit quotes from SOP that clearly identify who the Holy Spirit is and you are rejecting it because it doesn't fit your narrative. Love the truth my friend or you will get strong delusion.
@@rememberthesabbathdayexodu1185amen!
@@rememberthesabbathdayexodu1185 Ellen White never "came out of being a trinitarian." You will not find a single clear statement from her condemning belief in a Godhead composed of three distinct persons, i.e. the Trinity. There is deafening silence from her on this topic.
What you do find in her in her writings is that she bravely and eloquently exposed the doctrinal errors of Babylon! False Sabbath, exposed! False teaching on state of the dead, exposed! False teaching on hell, exposed! False teaching on once saved always saved exposed! I could go on.
It is unfortunate that people like you expect us to believe she silently rejected the most widely held doctrine in all of Christendom, the Trinity, and for some odd reason failed to write one single statement for its condemnation. In The Great Controversy, she dedicates not a single sentence, paragraph or chapter condemning belief in the trinity! Why is that? Did she or God forget a chapter?
God bless my friend!
Thank You Pastor Batchelor..!!
I was always confused about this question One Being or Three Beings..??
After listening to your explanation, this clear everything in my mind.
3 beings of God having the same thoughts, power, authority, and love as One.
God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit as One True Monotheist God.
The only God who had created many universes and Creator of all things..!!
Thank You God 🙏🏻 for your forever mercy and love for the human race..!!!
Ameenn. Thank you so much dear Pastor 😊🙏
You are very welcome
Truth. He is the truth. Thank you for word of Christ.
Neither Christ nor the apostles ever taught the diabolical doctrine of the Trinity, which is a Catholic god of the fourth century.
Interesting statement, but I found that they all did taught the doctrine of the Godhead. By the way, do you know that the Roman Catholic doctrine of trinity is just the doctrine anti trinity fans believe in? I can prove that to you.
@@vaio4908 Yes, they cite Psalm 2:7 to say Christ was engendered, and they are right on this. Let me tell you, If a robber and killer tell me that 2+2=4, I must admit it regardless his way of life. Do you know what I mean?
The symbol on the book cover is enough to cause anyone to blush... It's a purely pagan symbol, the yin-yang that also has to do with the pagan trinity
Oh? You believe in the pagan symbol?
@@taleseternia4624 I think that's just a mobius strip in three separate colours though? The same shape in three colours. I think the intention is to show that it's one shape with three colours, like God is one being with three Persons.
According to EGW, Majority of SDA will accept Trinity then Sunday!
"As the storm approaches, a LARGE CLASS(simply means, majority of SDA,s) who have professed faith in the third angel's message, but have not been sanctified through obedience to the truth, abandon their position and join the ranks of the opposition. By uniting with the world and partaking of its spirit, they have come to view matters in nearly the same light; and when the test is brought, they are prepared to choose the easy, popular side. Men of talent and pleasing address, who once rejoiced in the truth, employ their powers to deceive and mislead souls. They become the most bitter enemies of their former brethren." (EGW GC 608)
It doesn't talk about Trinity. 😅😅
@@jemocarl2245trinity is not truth!!
@@bobbi2235 why?
@@jemocarl2245because the Bible and EW doesn’t teach it! When you read the Bible it says, “The SPIRIT OF GOD, not God the Spirit. Notice that when you read it. The Bible never says, God the Spirit!
@@jemocarl2245it is worth studying about, EGW and the pioneers did not believe in the Trinity, it was not even voted in till 1980. After studying what it was they believed, which is that Gods spirit is part of him much like our nose and toes are part of us and like we have a spirit… only ours is not holy and we do not have omnipresence, his omnipresence is how he is everywhere:
”Whither shall I go from thy spirit? Or whither shall I flee from thy presence? If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: If I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there. If I take the wings of the morning, And dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea; Even there shall thy hand lead me, And thy right hand shall hold me.“
Psalm 139:7-10 KJV
(I encourage you to Read the whole chapter yourself❤)
And the patriarchs and prophets of old never believed in a separate being as Gods spirit, they understood it was part of him, his mind. So when the New Testament says “he” it is referring to Jesus who is now glorified and at the right hand of the ancient of days God himself.
”Cast me not away from thy presence; And take not thy holy spirit from me.“
Psalm 51:11 KJV
This is what the pioneers understood about God and this is part of the 1st angels message:
”saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.“
Revelation 14:7 KJV
Because we must know who God is to fear him. The last days is about worship, not just a day of worship but to worship the God Almighty and his ONLY begotten son and my lord and savior who all things were created by.
It is worth looking into and studying, it is the doctrine of who God is and is worth studying and not leaving it to the “learned” or our pastors to spoon feed us.
Read Mark 12:29-30, John17:3, 1 corinthians 8:6. 1Timothy2:5. Romans 8:8-9, Galatians 4:6.
Amen, it’s all through the Bible and EW writings! So plain when you finally see it. Such a blessing and such a shame for educated men standing in pulpits and preaching a lie! They say trinity is not in the Bible but the church believes it by faith! Faith in something that doesn’t exist, it’s their faith in what they want to believe and deceive the church who won’t study for themselves!
Thank you for this simple and clear presentation.
It’s not simple and true, he is dead wrong! Look at other comments on here and study for yourself, I have that’s how I know he’s wrong!
@@bobbi2235 So, what's he said that is wrong?
Can you tell me what our spirit is
@@bobbi2235 Do you mean the _breath of life?_
Hi I'm in New Zealand. Is there a way I can ask for a copy? Do you have a PDF that I can download? Thank you.
God the Father, Jesus His son and their holy spirit
SOP , states that Christ the only begotten son of God was Next in authority from God and Lucifer was Next in authority from Christ. Where is the authority of the Holy Spirit.
Amen absolutely
Book, page and paragraph?
The Holy Spirit is God’s spirit. Where is Satan Spirit? Where is your spirit? Are they in separate little bodies running around, no they are not and neither is God’s spirit. It is part of him so any comment in the Bible that says “he” is talking about God himself.
Spirit means life, Where is your life,where is Satan's life , In other meaning is where is your wisdom(spirit) ECT, ECT ,If you are controversial, Satan will give something to stay busy and satisfy you .
@@pilgrimhere652… we could apply your theory to others who have been controversial… Martin Luther, William Tyndale, John Calvin, SDA Pioneers and Jesus himself…
All who stood for the truth because it was the right thing to do… not because of the spirit of Satan…
Sounds like you are advocating for modalism my friend! Do you really think the Holy Spirit is "part" of the Father? How much a "part" of the Father is the Holy Spirit? A little, a lot?
@@beaelleess3892You are not controversial, this is old news and has been around for a long time.
@@BDB-lt5gdThe Holy Spirit is the Spirit of the Father, same as you have a spirit but your spirit is not holy.
Amen
Read, patriarch, and prophets chapter 1 again, the question according to this chapter satan questioned that he was the son of God… Sound familiar?
Satan confused ,God doesn't. It's very simple to understand the Only knowing God in the Universe , Genesis 1,, In the beginning billions of creatures have billions of years old, but you were created a couple thousands years ago , Are you numb ? Empty head? But I'm sure the arrogance of Satan contaminated all man kind , we were created a few days ago ,we cannot pretend to know infinity mysteries, Be humble and you will understand only what it is given.
If you read Evangelism by the prophet of the Lord Sister White the chapter Misrepresentation Of The Godhead she clearly states that the Godhead is three separate beings serving different functions but all serving the same purpose. The Father is the full embodiment of the Godhead invisible to mortal sight. The Son is the fullness of the Godhead manifested, the express image of his person. The Holy Spirit is The Comforter, manifesting the divine grace to all those who receive and believe Christ to be their personal Saviour.
Three living persons of the heavenly trio with separate functions all serving the same purpose
Amen.
Ellen white did not write that book.
I question any compilation that was put together after her death… especially from a man who is buried in a Masonic section of the George Washington cemetery in Maryland…
@@qrchris well she did write the book, having been to Battlecreek in person and seen the written compilation which make the book heaven or hell could not persuade me any different. But if your argument is because Froome used this writing are you then going to nullify her entire writings because others have taken her writings out of context to suit their own perverted beliefs? Desmond Ford took Sister Whites writings and chopped up and mixed around quotes to suit his own incorrect doctrines and for those who do not study to show themselves approved unto God, a workman who not need be ashamed rightly dividing the word of truth belief his false teachings. What about Kellog who also perverted her writings? Just because others have taken her writings and used them perversely does not mean she did not write it. Lastly if you bother to read Evangelism there is no way you can honestly say she did not write it under inspiration as there is no way any human in our sinful state would be able to comprehend such things, but again God is a God of freewill, I choose to believe Sister White was inspired and wrote Evangelism and you can choose not to. Thankfully salvation is individual and I wont lose my own crown based of others unbelief
@@joshash1997The problems are the subtitles added by Leroy E. Froom, the compilator, that give the impression that sister White was talking about the Trinity, a term she never used, which is something impossible in a Trinitarian person.
As the saints in the kingdom of God are accepted in the beloved, they hear: “Come, ye blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.” [Matthew 25:34.] And then the golden harps are touched, and the music flows all through the heavenly host, and they fall down and worship the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. And then what? What next did I see? One meets another; and they say, as they fall right upon their necks with their faces shining with the glory of God, “It was you, it was you that brought the truth to me, and I would not hear it at first, but, O I am so glad.” Now that will be acted all through the heavenly courts, thanksgiving and praise to God for those that have been the means of winning others to the truth, that they should come and have an interest for them, and then they are united among the saved. O what a meeting! what a meeting! 21LtMs, Ms 139, 1906, par. 32
THE SECOND COMMANDMENT, THE TRINITY AND THE OMNIPRESENCE OF GOD
I always wondered what was so significant about the second Commandment that Rome found it necessary to remove it altogether from the Ten Commandments. But it appears that there is a fundamental truth in that Commandment concerning where God's presence is that is intended to protect us from all forms of false worship.
The second Commandment tells us that we should not bow down before any image. This implies that God is not in any image. Which means that God is not everywhere. The Bible tells us that God is in heaven; and heaven is not everywhere. Heaven is above the earth and that is where we should direct our worship to God, where He is. He knows everything that happens everywhere and can go wherever He pleases but His abode is in heaven where Jesus, our High Priest and intercessor, is presenting our cases to Him. - "Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens" (Heb. 8:1).
Furthermore, both the prophets Daniel and John saw God in heaven with the angels gathered around His throne and Jesus being separate and distinct (Dan. 7 and Rev. 4, 5). Daniel said "the Ancient of days did sit" (Dan. 7:9) and "one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days" (Dan. 7:13). John said "one sat on the throne" (Rev. 4:2) who was worshipped as the Creator to whom it was said "Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created" (Rev. 4:11), with Jesus appearing before Him to receive a book and power and authority, as the Lamb who was slain, while the angels sang, "Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever." (Rev. 5:13).
God is not everywhere all at once like a vapour while part of Him or an image sits on the throne representing Him. God Himself sits, of whom man was made in His image after His likeness, "made after the similitude of God" (James 3:9).
Logically, if God is everywhere, He can be worshipped wherever He is. One could then bow down and worship before a stone, a tree, a person or any object, not as worshipping the object but as worshipping God, since God is in it. That would open the door for the worship of false Gods as no one would be able to tell the difference whether you are worshipping the true God or not.
It would not be consistent to forbid worshipping before an object if God is in the object and one is worshipping, not the object, but God who is in the object. This is evident in the experience of the children of Israel in the wilderness. God appeared to them in a cloud and they were not forbidden to bow before Him in the cloud - "And the LORD said unto Moses, Lo, I come unto thee in a thick cloud" (Ex. 19:9), "And all the people saw the cloudy pillar stand at the tabernacle door: and all the people rose up and worshipped, every man in his tent door" (Ex. 33:10). If God is not in a particular place, say in an image, it means that there is at least one place where He is not. He cannot be everywhere and not everywhere at the same time.
The idea that the Holy Spirit is God present everywhere was precisely the argument that Dr. John Harvey Kellogg put forward to justify his pantheistic teachings. And Ellen White told him that he was wrong. Initially, he said that God was in everything. And when God instructed Ellen White to oppose it, he modified it by saying that at the time of his first presentation of the matter in the book "The Living Temple" he did not believe in the Trinity. Because of that, he said he had not given a clear explanation of the matter. He went on to explain that he had now come to believe in the Trinity and could better explain his idea. The new explanation was that it was not God the Father, but God the Holy Ghost who was everywhere and in everything. Ellen White told him that he was wrong. And we can see why. If God the Holy Spirit is everywhere and can be worshipped, it is a doorway to replace worshipping God and Christ in heaven entirely.
Another modified version of Kellogg's idea is that the Holy Spirit is really Christ himself or both God and Christ in an omnipresent form. This is also not correct as it places God and Christ on earth rather than in heaven.
The pioneers of Seventh-day Adventism stated in their Fundamental Principles of faith published in the 1889 Yearbook that God was everywhere present by His representative, the Holy Spirit. At face value, this would suggest that this representative is omnipresent. But it is perhaps more consistent with scripture to say that He is everywhere present by His representatives the holy spirits. Holy spirits are ministering spirits sent from heaven - "And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man." (John1:51). "Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?" (Heb. 1:14).
This is consistent with the Hebrew word ruach and the Greek word pneuma that are translated in the Bible as spirit. These words are also translated spirits, thus indicating that the Holy Spirit need not be seen as one individual being who is omnipresent but many spirit beings representing God everywhere.
From this perspective, there is no denying that the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, sent at Pentecost is a person - only not a God-being to be worshipped. Like the Angel of Revelation 18 who comes down from heaven with the latter rain - a similar occurrence as that which took place at Pentecost except more extensive - the Comforter would be seen as a messenger sent by Christ from heaven, as stated repeatedly in John 14-16. Ellen G. White describing the latter rain speaks of a mighty angel from heaven being sent to do this work and further said, "Angels were sent to aid the mighty angel from heaven" (Ellen. G. White, Story of Redemption, p. 399).
It should be noted that Jesus's warning against blaspheming against the Holy Spirit is not implying that the Holy Spirit is more to be revered than Jesus Himself. Jesus went back to heaven and promises to return to this earth to take us to His Father's house in heaven. He left the Holy Spirit to guide us until He returns. If we reject that guidance by blasheming against the the Holy Spirit, there will be nobody to guide us. The situation is similar to what God told the children of Israel in the wilderness - "Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him." (Ex. 23:20, 21). It is simply warning us not to reject the Holy Spirit's guidance. It is not forbidding us seeking to understand who the Holy Spirit is or what the Holy Spirit does.
So, there we have it. The church has now fully accepted Kellogg's idea. Ellen White said that the initial presentation by Kellogg was the alpha of deadly heresies. She said that the omega would follow shortly afterwards and would be accepted. And it did follow shortly afterwards in Kellogg's modified version, based on his acceptance of the Trinity. And the church has now fully accepted it - that God (the Holy Spirit) is everywhere and should be worshipped. So, based on current practice, Jesus is worshipped, the Holy Spirit is worshipped but the One true God is almost entirely ignored. Jesus, praying to His Father, made it clear who the "only true God" is and identified Himself as the one sent by God - "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." (John 17:3).
Nowhere in the Bible is worship given to anyone else except the one seated on the throne who is referred to as "LORD God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come" (Rev.4:8) and to the Christ, the Lamb, as it will be in the new earth - "And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it." (Rev. 21:22). God is the Father of Christ. Accordingly, Christ, the Lamb is seen with "an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads" (Rev. 14:1). It is the name of the Lamb's Father that will be written in their foreheads.
Whatever one's concept of the Godhead, the term "godhead" is used only three times in the Bible (Acts 17:29, Rom. 1:20 and Col. 2:9) and in none of these places is the expression used to replace the idea of God being a single individual who has a Divine Son who is worshipped alongside Himself. And not even once does the term "godhead" in scripture allude to the worship of anyone else.
All worship should be directed to God and Christ in heaven. It is not about where we are when we worship but, like sending a petition to the king of England, we do not send it to Spain or Australia but to him in England where he is. Similarly, Jesus in teaching us how to pray directed that we say, "Our Father which art in heaven".
We should not be praying to nor worshipping anything on earth. We should pray to God in heaven, approaching His throne through Christ, our Mediator, and we should direct our worship to heaven where God is. This is the substance of the second Commandment that Rome has removed.
Did you watch the video?
@@MichaellaSapphirethe “Holy”Spirit is the Spirit of the Father and His Son! A Spirit has not flesh or bones.
Jesus was begotten of His Father, He was not created! Ellen White said the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of the Father and Jesus!
And Jesus said🎉
@bobbi2235 What you just described is the trinity doctrine of the Roman Catholic church.
@@vaio4908the trinity that the church has is what you are saying not me!
Pastor Doug speaketh the truth-hear ye him!!!
Read your Bible!
@@gaudiozijunior1995 no argument on reading the Bible, but what about preachers? Don’t they have a place in your world?
I respect pastor Doug, but on this matter i disagree with his perspective. I choose to go with a plain "thus saith Lord"
@@gaudiozijunior1995 thus saith the Lord, no question there. But aren’t there supplements where you come from, where the Lord says we should test the spirits, if they don’t speak the truth and the Spirit is not with them? Sometimes I just wonder….
That is exactly what i have done. The testing of the spirits is actually done basing on the plain bible verses. For instance, John 3:16 says God gave His only begotten son. Begotten means just that.. It means being born. Begotten doesn't mean created as Pr Bachelor suggests. And common sense tells us that the one who begets is always older than the begotten... Actually Christ is honored and exalted when we know Him as the only one born of the Father, its not robbing Him of His divinity, its actually acknowledging it, for that is who He is.
The Bible says the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of the father and the Son ; not God the Holy spirit.. So Pr Doug false accuses those who say Christ is begotten of the Father when He tells us that begotten means created...
Human beings stop arguing, Jesus is coming back 🙏😣
🙏✝️❤
Did it ever came to you that you(and your church) can be wrong when it comes to the trinity?
Does the church have Bible conferences where persons who research the scriptures can share their findings as scholars in other disciplines are able to do at academic conferences to extend the frontiers of knowledge? If they exist, they are largely unknown or not open for general participation, which explains why, although knowledge in other areas of study are advancing, the knowledge of scripture is limited, with old questions remaining unanswered and new ones creating confusion and uncertainty. Can interested persons come together and plan a Godhead Conference where all ideas concerning the subject can be aired and interrogated?
Jesus Christ is the only begotten of the Father! That is not the position of non trinitarians, but the position of the bible. Begotten does not mean created.
The Almighty God, before anything else existed, had a Son. And through this Son, He created everything else.
He, the Son was not created, He was born. And He remains the only person who can lay claim to being born of the Father this way because He is the only begotten.
The reason Jesus is divine is because He inherited divinity by birth.
To deny that Jesus was begotten of the Father is to deny his divinity. To deny that He was truly born is to call the Father a liar, who Himself said it twice from heaven at Jordan and on the mountain of transfiguration.
You got that corrected!
@quintessentialbrick8452
0 seconds ago
@ElijahAndMoses
Sorry, this turned out longer than I thought.
Point 1 and 2:
John
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
According to the above, the Word is God. The Word is identified to be Jesus ("the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us"). According to the same, Jesus is also the creator of all. If "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made", then Jesus cannot have been created. If Jesus was created by the Father, then the Bible and God are liars. in which case, we have a big problem. If all things were made through Christ, then He must be eternal, self-existing, and have no beginning. He must also be God.
I know you say begotten does not mean created, but born. Bringing something from a state of not existing to having existence is creation. God the Father would then have created Jesus by 'birthing' Him.
Christ is the Holy Spirit… He became the Spirit after His glorification John 7.
Cumbered with humanity, Christ could not be in every place personally; therefore it was altogether for their advantage that He should leave them, go to His father, and send the Holy Spirit to be His successor on earth. The Holy Spirit is Himself divested of the personality of humanity and independent thereof. He would represent Himself as present in all places by His Holy Spirit, as the Omnipresent. “But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in My name, He shall (although unseen by you), [This phrase was added by Ellen White.] teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you” [John 14:26]. “Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will come not unto you; but if I depart, I will send Him unto you” [John 16:7]. . 14MR 23.3
If Jesus is God, the Holy Spirit is and God is God, who is the way to God?
Who is the son of Christ?
If the Trinity God is eternal and immortal, how was the death of Christ possible when he cannot die?
Christ Jesus says to love God with ALL our might, how is it possible when there are two more Gods?
My goodness, trinity? I guess people love false prophets. one means one and not three.
It's even clear that you're misinterpreting the scripture because if you weren't, you would definitely understand the true personality of God and his son Jesus Christ from all the texts you have read. All the texts doesn't prove Trinity.
You do not teach what Ellen White and early pioneers taught about the trinity
EGW and the pioneers taught the Godhead not the trinity doctrine of the catholic church.
"The Father can not be described by the things of earth. The Father is all the fullness of the Godhead bodily, and is invisible to mortal sight. The Son is all the fullness of the Godhead manifested. The word of God declares Him to be “the express image of His person.” BTS March 1, 1906, par. 1
"The Comforter that Christ promised to send after He ascended to heaven, is the Spirit in all the fullness of the Godhead, making manifest the power of divine grace to all who receive and believe in Christ as a personal Saviour. There are three living persons of the heavenly trio. In the name of these three powers,-the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, those who receive Christ by living faith are baptized, and these powers will cooperate with the obedient subjects of heaven in their efforts to live the new life in Christ." BTS March 1, 1906, par. 2
The prince of the power of evil can only be held in check by the power of God in the third person of the Godhead, the Holy Spirit. SpTA10 37.1
After the believing soul has received the ordinance of baptism, he is to bear in mind that he is dedicated to God, to Christ, and to the Holy Spirit. These three all co-operate in the great work of the covenant made by baptism in the sight of the heavenly universe. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit receive the believing soul into covenant relation with God. 15LtMs, Ms 56, 1900, par. 26
Wherever you labor, come close to your brethren. Bear in mind that the Holy Spirit is the converter and sanctifier of the soul. The power of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit is pledged to every believer, to preserve unity and love, and to sustain him in his labor for the recovery of lost souls. 22LtMs, Lt 156, 1907, par. 5
As the saints in the kingdom of God are accepted in the beloved, they hear: “Come, ye blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.” [Matthew 25:34.] And then the golden harps are touched, and the music flows all through the heavenly host, and they fall down and worship the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. And then what? What next did I see? One meets another; and they say, as they fall right upon their necks with their faces shining with the glory of God, “It was you, it was you that brought the truth to me, and I would not hear it at first, but, O I am so glad.” Now that will be acted all through the heavenly courts, thanksgiving and praise to God for those that have been the means of winning others to the truth, that they should come and have an interest for them, and then they are united among the saved. O what a meeting! what a meeting! 21LtMs, Ms 139, 1906, par. 32
The Saviour's glance seems to penetrate heaven as He pours out His soul in prayer. Well He knows how sin has hardened the hearts of men, and how difficult it will be for them to discern His mission, and accept the gift of salvation. He pleads with the Father for power to overcome their unbelief, to break the fetters with which Satan has enthralled them, and in their behalf to conquer the destroyer. He asks for the witness that God accepts humanity in the person of His Son.
Never before have the angels listened to such a prayer. They are eager to bear to their loved Commander a message of assurance and comfort. But no; the Father Himself will answer the petition of His Son. Direct from the throne issue the beams of His glory. The heavens are opened, and upon the Saviour's head descends a dovelike form of purest light,-fit emblem of Him, the meek and lowly One. DA 111.6 - DA 112.1
Amen, even when the explanation of the scripture is clear here, but still people will find some excuse to reject the truth
What if the pioneers were right???!! You cant introduce a theme and say its a mystery, yet you want to believe what you are saying contrary to the pioneers.
Plural … not three but two…Satan was once an honored angel in heaven, next to Christ. His countenance, like those of the other angels, was mild and expressive of happiness. His forehead was high and broad, showing great intelligence. His form was perfect; his bearing noble and majestic. But when God said to His Son, “Let us make man in our image,” Satan was jealous of Jesus. He wished to be consulted concerning the formation of man, and because he was not, he was filled with envy, jealousy, and hatred. He desired to receive the highest honors in heaven next to God. . EW 145.1
Amen from Cape Town South Africa SDA ❤
COMMENTS ON DOUG BATCHELOR’S, EXPLORING THE TRINITY: ONE GOD OR THREE
Pastor Doug’s presentation made four main points:
1. Jesus always existed.
2. Jesus is fully equal with the Father.
3. The Holy Spirit is a unique person.
4. Mention is made of three distinct entities in certain benedictions and salutations.
I would have addressed most of these points directly or indirectly in my previous post. But, for clarity, I will address each point briefly as follows:
1. Jesus died and therefore did not always exist - “I am he that liveth, and was dead” (Rev. 1:18). His Father gave Him life - "For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself" (John 5:26).
2. Jesus never claimed full equality with God, His Father, at any point in His existence. Before He came to earth, His Father anointed and appointed Him - “Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.” (Heb. 1:9; see also verse 2). While He was on earth, He said “my Father is greater than I” (John 14:28). After sin is finished, He will still be subject to His Father - “And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.” (1 Cor. 15:28).
3. There is no issue with the Holy Spirit being a unique person. The Holy Spirit, the Comforter, like the Angel of Revelation 18 who lightens the earth with his glory during the latter rain, is someone who is sent and acts on instruction - not a God-Being to be worshipped - “he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak” (John 16:13).
4. There is no issue with mention being made of three distinct entities. The issue is the relative position of each. The Father has no co-equal. He is “the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see” (1 Tim. 6:15, 16). He is the One that the Bible refers to when it says there is one God and none else. It is talking about Him as the only Supreme Being. There aren’t three supreme beings, only One. All other beings are subject to Him. Further, the third entity is not always one Holy Spirit but many, for example, “Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne” (Rev.1:4). These seven spirits are later described as “seven lamps of fire” (Rev. 4:5) and also as “the seven angels which stood before God” (Rev. 8:2). It is interesting how the Bible explains itself if we would only take the time to consider it - Jesus sent His angel, (the Spirit) to His bride (the church), and this is what He said, “I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star. And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come.” (Rev. 22:16, 17). The Spirit and the bride are the same ones mentioned before - the angel and the churches. Here are the three again, “I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things” (1 Tim. 5:21). There are many others. These are the same ones who were present at the creation - “Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? …. When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?” (Job 38:4-7).
It is time we take stock of God’s warnings to His people about the omega of deadly heresies and stop promoting this doctrine of pagan origin, brought into Christianity by Rome but was rejected by the pioneers of the Advent Movement. It denies the most fundamental truth of the gospel that God loved us to the point of giving His only begotten Son to die for us, and not a fellow God who really cannot die, pretending to die.
May God bless you and may He open up the eyes of those who still don't know this truth.
Nominal SDA church and Catholic church have one thing in common. God the father God the son and God the holy spirit.
All these are in catechism and also in the 28 fundamental believes of the SDA church
@@randabrenda4815other than condemning people, produce argument than the plan teachings that are presented.
God bless you for this!!
@ElijahAndMoses You are ignoring the bible texts given in the presentation by pastor Doug. The arguments you bring does not prove your point at all. The Bible texts are very summiere and not supportive of the claim you made.
@@vaio4908 You have made assertions without providing any basis or evidence to support them. Which Bible texts, for example, are being ignored?
We do know that Satan has trinity: Dragon, beast and image of the beast.
So, our Almighty God works through Godhead (Father, Son, Holy Ghost) to SAVE a human being likewise Satan works through his godhead (Dragon, beast and image of the beast) to destroy a human being. Satan is a copycat
What rules does Satan work by? Can he copy a false copy(idea)and bring it as truth? We do work from truth(out of God) and not from Satan and turn it around…
Was the actual name jesus with a "j" from the beginning of time?
The letter "j" was invented around 400 years ago. Makes me wonder if that name is from another source. Could worshipping that name be the broad path that the whole world wanders after.
Consider the sacred name, "YaHshua"! Means, the Salvation of "YaH" !
Shabbat Shalom!
Elohim, Adonai are plural
Not what SOP saying: The Lord Jesus Christ, the divine Son of God, existed from eternity, a distinct person, yet one with the Father. He was the surpassing glory of heaven. He was the commander of the heavenly intelligences, and the adoring homage of the angels was received by Him as His right. This was no robbery of God. “The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his way,” He declares, “before his works of old. I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was. When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water. Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth: while as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world. When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth” (Proverbs 8:22-27).
There are light and glory in the truth that Christ was one with the Father before the foundation of the world was laid. This is the light shining in a dark place, making it resplendent with divine, original glory. This truth, infinitely mysterious in itself, explains other mysterious and otherwise unexplainable truths, while it is enshrined in light, unapproachable and incomprehensible.
“Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God” (Psalm 90:2). “The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up” (Matthew 4:16). Here the pre-existence of Christ and the purpose of His manifestation to our world are presented as living beams of light from the eternal throne. “Now gather thyself in troops, O daughter of troops: he hath laid siege against us: they shall smite the judge of Israel with a rod upon the cheek. But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting” (Micah 5:1, 2). . 1SM 247.4-1SM 248.2
Why did Jesus accept worship if he was not God? Jesus is the one walking amongst the candle sticks in Rev. He sits on the throne of God, he's the one returning for us, we can only go to God thru him, if we see him we see God, let US make man in OUR image, Jesus is the word and all was made by him, and that's just the tip of the iceberg... Naw, there's just too much there, Jesus is God, and if Jesus is God, the Holy Spirit is too. Jehovah's Witness and Mormons invented the anti trinity. Lets not allow this false doctrine into our church.
Doug how can you ignore 1 Cor 8:5&6? It is clear Who is God and Who is Lord… you use John 17:3 totally out of context (so clear only one true God and Jesus). How can you teach such nonsense? Do your exegesis on the texts and compare it with SOP…
This is a Catholic teaching you don't see that if what you're saying is true that mean we can worship the Holy Spirit the Bible do not teach that this is a Doctrine from the devil to get worship
The brother is in a false track. He might be drunk by wine of babylon.
God is more than one and less than two in number. The reason is that Jesus HAD BEEN the almighty God "He who sees me SEES HIM who sent me.". Being the "Son" of the almighty God means that Jesus DERIVES from the almighty God, He is not a "regular, additional" Son. Jesus DERIVES from God in that God GOT RID of his power so that He hasn't it any longer, He is like a normal man now: the Son of God.
Since Jesus has no power this means that his miracles have been actually made by using the power of the Father e.g. "thank you for hearing me" (see the Lazarus' resurrection). In fact Jesus sits next to the POWER (of God) because has no OWN power at all.
The almighty God thus dwells in the past "the world has not known you" and cannot be seen "no one has seen God at any time". The only way to "somehow" see God is to see the Son "He who has seen me has SEEN THE FATHER" who HAD BEEN the Father in a remote past.
But - even when transcendent, away from this world - God is able to reach to us here with his words and actions. In other terms God is only VIRTUALLY here with His words and actions, but in reality there is NOBODY here. This is why Jesus says that God is like "a Spirit" (Jn. 4:23,24). The "Spirit of God" (aka Holy Spirit) is thus simply God who is a spirit, i.e. no "third person" exists! Only the POWER of God is actually present here, which is necessary for the God's actions to take place. Jesus sits next to that Power, not next to God (see the gospels).
To recap, Jesus is DIFFERENT from God since He is like a normal man. Yet He is not DISTINCT from Him "I am in the Father and the Father in me" because Jesus HAD BEEN that almighty God. In other words They are not the same ONE God, but They are not "TWO distinct Gods" either. You can say that God is greater than one and less than two in number.
Hence no trinity exists: as reiterated many times by Jesus (see the gospels) He is together with the FATHER ONLY. No one else, just 1. Father (who is a spirit) and 2. Son, very simple.
The Bible said you have no other God before me there is one God not 3 gods Jesus said that his father is the only true God Jesus Is God because he was begotten of the father so he is God the Holy Spirit is the spirrt of the father you are trying to teach that the holy spirit is a different person from the father you are breaking God's commandment dog Bachelor
So you had kids of your own… did you “create” them??… no you begat them….
There IS a difference and the pioneers believed this also
But according to him he created them 😂
OOOOOH! Stop the lies Doug Batchelor, you know very well Sister Ellen White and the pioneers of Adventism never believed God is a trinity. Throughout the OT God declared there is no God beside me. Trinity was developed by the Beast out of the sea who changed the truth of God into a lie and worship and serve the created more than the Creator who is blessed forever. Amen Romans 1:5. If Jesus was everlasting with God , please explain John 16:27. “For the Father himself loves you, because you have loved me, and have believed that I CAME OUT from God”😮😮😢
What if the pioneers were right… And you are wrong Doug bachelor?
You don't understand that Satan hard a same issue question the divinity of Christ.
I don't understand. Didn't Sis White eventually admit and write about the Holy Spirit as part of the Godhead?
She came OUT of being a trinitarian from being Methodist when the pioneers were studying deep things and hours as they were preparing for what they believed to be his second coming and then if you study deeply the history of our pioneers you will see that they were NON TRINITARIANS, and if she were to return to this there would a great and clear exposition of that … and this there is NOT and in addition to this there is clear evidence she spoke against the doctrine of the trinity when the problem came about with Dr Kellog, he re-wrote his book “the living temple” (for which Battle Creek burned with strange fire) and in a letter he finally said he believed in the Trinity - FOR WHICH SHE CONDEMNED HIM FOR.
There is a lot to study on this subject and I have found it to be practical and it opens the Bible to say just as it reads - not putting human ideas into the words that were written. The doctrine of the Trinity was not a thing until the Catholic Church in the 3rd century had extensive committee meetings & it became part of their creed. And infact if you look it up and find they say “The mystery of the Holy Trinity is the most fundamental of our faith. On it everything else depends and from it everything else derives.”
This is a very important study and no little video from any man will ever convince me that Jesus is not Gods son. Read patriarchs and prophets chapter one, it is the warfare over the matter that he INDEED IS GODS SON PRIOR TO COMING here on earth to be the son of man.
@@darrylpasea7173no … she had of the deepest understanding of Gods spirit - she was acquainted with his spirit and I am just now being able to start to comprehend how Gods spirit (which is Holy) God has omnipresence and this is how his spirit is referred to as “He” because the apostles understood that it was God himself…. Read all of psalms 139
Do you think David thought there was another God or do you think he thought there was One True Living God?
O LORD, thou hast searched me, and known me.
2Thou knowest my downsitting and mine uprising, thou understandest my thought afar off.
3Thou compassest my path and my lying down, and art acquainted with all my ways.
4For there is not a word in my tongue, but, lo, O LORD, thou knowest it altogether.
5Thou hast beset me behind and before, and laid thine hand upon me.
6Such knowledge is too wonderful for me; it is high, I cannot attain unto it.
7Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?
8If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.
9If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea;
10Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me.
You can find Bible Research institute about this matter..@@beaelleess3892
Doug will not be in heaven unless he repents. He is teaching falsehood and has no understanding.
I agree. The pastors who teach this lie seem to think they know it all, they say the trinity is not in the Bible but they have faith in it anyway, faith in something that is not there, it faith in themselves and the lie they believe! Believe a lie and be damned!
@@bobbi2235 agree. He, Doug , is in contradictory of what was taught in our fundamental principles and what the S. D. Adventist taught. Which can be found in the RH April 17, 1883 a clear answer to a question that was asked. Doug should do his homework before he teaches falsehoods.
I am quoting from the answer that was given the Review and Herald that was taught by our church way before Doug was ever a tinkle in his patents /
grandparents eyes.
“Answer: You are mistaken in supposing that S. D. Adventist teach that Christ was ever created.
They believe, on the contrary, that he was “begotten “ of the Father , And that he can properly be called God and worshiped as such. They believed, also, that the worlds, and everything which is, was created by Christ in conjunction with the Father. They believe, however, that somewhere in the eternal ages of the past there was a point at which Christ came into existence. They think that it is necessary that God should have antedated Christ and his being, in order that Christ could have Begotten of him, and sustain to him the relation of a Son. They hold to the distinct personality of the Father and Son, Rejecting as absurd that feature of the trinitarianism which insist that God, and Christ, and the Holy Spirit are three persons, yet but one person. S. D. Adventist hold that God and Christ are one in the sense that Christ prayed that his disciples might be one;, i. e., one in spirit, purpose and labor. See “ Fundamental Principles of the S.D. Adventist,” published at this office. “ RH April 17, 1883”
Ingo Sorke touches this remarkably well.
I believe Doug is one of the bright lights Ellen saw going out.
I met Doug at PUC in the early 70’s when he came to give his testimony. He was in a white T-Shirt, blue jeans and thongs. Long hair sitting on his Shoulders . I was listening and watching intensely , beautiful was his testimony. Today I watch tensely and see he has taken another pathway not leading to God the Father through his only begotten Son.
Satan is the one worshiped now by the trinity doctrine.
The doctrine of Jesus is Both the Father and Son. Life eternal is knowing only these two Divine begins, the only true God and his only begotten Son. Satan is worshiped in the holy place, by the Trinity doctrine that Doug, Mark, Ty, and many others have accepted as their god.
The Trinity is one. We do not confess three Gods, but one God in three persons, the consubstantial Trinity. The divine persons do not share the one divinity among themselves, but each of them is God, whole and entire.. The Father is that which the Son is. The Son that which the Father is. The Father and the Son that which the Holy Spirit is that is by nature one God. In the words of the Fourth Lateran Council each of the persons is that supreme reality, viz., the divine substance, essence or nature.
You do confess three gods: God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. There is only ONE true God, GOD THE FATHER (John 17:3; 1 Corinthians 8:6; Revelation 3:12)
You need the inspiration of the Holy Spirit to read and interpret the Scriptures correctly.@@Edupier
@@aussierob7177It seems you don"t have it.
I don't have what ?@@Edupier
The inspiration of the Holy Spirit@@aussierob7177