so tow with my Model 3 rated at 3500 lbs last yr towed on a 4000km trip no probs and yeah most of the tesla chargers are not set up for trailers so you have to disconnect the trailer.
You’ve answered the issue that I have with EV towing is that you need to unhitch your trailer. That adds a whole new level of faff a delay to a journey. Not least of all, as someone that tows a lot and on my own, leaving my trailer in some other part of a service area unattended, fills me with concern. I had no doubt that electric would work for towing. Still not ready to dump my diesel auto Merc and my bladder capacity is at least as good as my fuel tank capacity 😉
Ive done landrovers 2.25 petrol through to 2.5 TDis since the early 90s. Towing never impacted fuel, always felt this was due to towing calmed my driving style ( I passed me test and was handed the keys to a brand new WHITE diesel Vauxhall Astra van circa 1989...) Binary driving I have heard it referred too, Full throttle or full brake!!! The turbo engines in Landys are an art... plant the throttle spool up the turbo, gap in traffic, drop the clutch. Amazing how many hot hatches could be left behind. Watching more and more of these videos makes me want to be involved in the industry, originally and electronics engineer, moved to teaching but now fed up with trying to get disinterested xbox/playstation kids interested in DT. Been swinging spanners since I was able to walk!
Another idea that has crossed my mind is having a pack under the trailer to either use as an extender or maybe wheel motors and it could help drive. Not really researched it but when EVs were first starting to get inventors I would see range extending trailers that were nothing but a load of batteries. Just more food for thought.
Don't forget the possibilities of regen braking on trailers instead of boring old over-run brakes. Would need some smarts on the trailer controls so you don't have any problems pushing on in corners, Land Rover tried a PTO driven trailer once and it would roll the towing vehicle over if it was turning and got stuck!
Because trailers usually have good weight distribution, you could actually use normal generators connected to the wheels to charge the towing vehicle. Using hub motors could possibly cause front-wheel drive towing vehicle to go airborne when going downhill due to excessive torque, but rear-wheel drive towing vehicles wouldn't have such issues.
I think there might be legality issues with having the trailer wheels powered. Braking, fine...but I don't think they can be driven. The idea of extra batteries on the trailer isn't new, but its a good one tho. You would have to weigh up the expense to see if it would be viable. Eg, no batteries on trailer and extra charge stops vs the price of extra trailer batteries ( and how much extra usable range they offer) My thought is, a couple of extra stops would be cheaper than buying more batteries. More rest stops (and pee stops) can't be a bad thing. Also means....more stops for snacks!! 😁
Also keep in mind the legal tow weight, a 90 defender towing a heavy beetle on a 650 kilo trailer is getting close to legal tow limits, another 500 kilos of trailer weight ain't a great idea.
I had thought about converting a GMC motorhome. It might be that if it could make it camp ground to camp ground it could charge over night while you're sleeping and be ready for the next morning. Admitted you would be limited to the mileage per day depending on the pack you have but it sure seems doable. With the GMC being front wheel drive seems it would be simple to convert.
There are plenty of reasons not to go electric. You obviously don't know that the amount of carbon emissions from making the batteries and components going into to that car far outweigh driving that original gas powered car for decades and decades and decades. Besides just wanting an electric car, there is quite literally no benefit, either to the consumer or the environment.
What are your thoughts on Ford offering an “electric crate motor” for sale through their performance parts devision? Can we expect to start seeing them replacing Tesla’s in some future builds?
Excellent. One more in the eye for the nay Sayers. E v's are the only way forward. Can't comment to much on the bladder problem, it comes with age. Yes the charge point situation really needs to be addressed. The Ev's will really take off when that is sorted. Mind you, you nearly did in that monster Beetle.
I've said it before. Where I live (USA). There is very little in the way of support for electric vehicles. Meaning charging stations. That's where you guys are way ahead of us. It appears you have embraced this where we still cling to gas. Personally I have a Dodge Durango, I'm in an apartment in Kansas. There is literally nothing hear. Maybe in Kansas city? I love the sound of an American V8. But I think if we had some kind of electric grid to support electric vehicles I would consider changing
Tesla alone has more than 1,200 Supercharger *locations* in the US, plus loads of destination chargers. Take look at the recent "Now You Know" YT episode entitled "Tesla charging expert". They consider the "electric grid", mentioning apartment owners and HOA. . Things are changing.
What part of Kansas? There are Tesla chargers all over Kansas. Granted not much in the way of other networks, but plenty for a Tesla. The biggest factor in owning an EV is being able to charge at home, at night. If you could figure out a solution at the apartment complex, it would be very possible to own a Tesla.
@@allterrainrandy2587 just to be clear. I haven't been actively searching for charge stations, however. I live in Wichita and after reading your comment I did a google search. It seems that there are supposed to be 85 stations around the Wichita area. I stand corrected. However as I live in an apartment there are no charging stations here, so no place for overnight charging. I would need to drive somewhere and wait while tge car was charging. Not very convenient. If I owned my own home that accessory would be an obvious upgrade. Again it's just my opinion but I think more of us need to pressure our elected officials to legislate funding for upgrading the electric grids around the country. Unfortunately gun and oil lobbies provide big funding to keep us under their collective thumbs. With little chance of moving the bar.
@@edwardbroyles9738 night charging makes an EV convenient. Charging in the city you live in isn't super important, most daily drives are made with the home charging. When you travel that's when fast chargers matter. So along your route and at your destination is what matters. I not a fan of the government being involved in anything they shouldn't be involved in. So, I'm not a fan of subsidies, having said that, the oil and gas industry gets about 10x the subsidies as the EV industry. Electric is better than gas, but the weak link is the battery and charging network, it is changing and quick, and 1 battery breakthrough would totally tip it. I think the private sector will figure it out before the government messes it up. As far as the apartment issue, talk with your landlord and see what can be done. Any smart landlord would want EV charging capability in their property. They just need educated as to why.
@@allterrainrandy2587 I agree up to a point. But where I think the government will likely create a choke point is just what you mentioned. Subsidies. They will need to step in to help the private sector build up the electric grid system. I'm sure private entities have the money but the will have an issue if the government slow walks giving them the clearances to actually build. I don't have much faith in that.
And two other factors are hurting you: windows are rolled down and the -Range- Land Rover is not the most aerodynamic vehicle in the first place. All in all I'd say the towing is having a negative effect of course, but not the "50% range drop when towing!" that we hear so much from other people. To be fair, though, gas vehicles also become significantly less efficient when they're towing too though perhaps not quite as much as electric vehicles.
@@alanmay7929 I'd LOVE to see your calculations to prove petrol (/diesel) vehicles somehow retain more efficiency. (Should be a good laugh) . Apart from justifying them carrying more (Heavy) fuel to keep topped up, your interpretation of "the laws of physics" applied to regenerative braking in EVs and the lack thereof in ICE vehicles should be interesting.
JustWasted3Hours Interesting last paragraph. . Since efficiency is essentially reduced by pulling extra mass with the same energy source, the two systems would require a similar increase in output, resulting in similar losses. . However, logic dictates that one system using the momentum of that mass to *replenish* energy when slowing down would make that system *gain* efficiency in comparison to the other? . Discuss.
@@alanmay7929 "Flat" doesn't matter, in fact it's probably better. You put an given amount of energy in to accelerate a given mass to a given speed, then minus drag and friction, you can regen the same amount, in the opposite direction to come to a halt. (Isaac Newton and all that.... Aka "physics") Flat road, fewer variables, regen more effective on average.
@@alanmay7929 Diesel is *Never* "super efficient". It's simply more efficient than petrol. As for "seeing the point", you don't even seem to understand conservation of energy, so I'll reserve judgement on your opinion.
On the highway you spend most of your energy pushing air out of the way. So it makes sense that a trailer that is shorter than your rover wouldn’t have an enormous reduction.
Hello, what would you say the weight in Lbs,is the trailer and car that you towed? I drive a tow about 2000 lbs daily here in the States. And with everything that is going on with our Government I. Looking for a conversion company like your's here.
My assumption was that the reason that towing hasn't affected your range as much as effected is because your open Land Rover is a four wheeled speed brake, so adding an open trailer doesn't add that much more drag. I would imagine that towing with a Model Y would reduce the range far more significantly.
It would of been nice to know what the combined weight of the trailer and the beetle was. Having said that, its fair to say its over 1.5 ton and having towed 1.5 ton with the model Y (effortless by the way), the range drop is far more significant even just with the trailer alone @ 450kg.
Aerodynamic drag tends to have more impact on efficiency than the extra weight. The trailer and VW load with the aero efficiency of the Forth Bridge only adds to the drag of the Landy. I'll bet that the sight of a Land Rover towing a Beetle at motorway speeds turned a few heads! 😁👍
Is the towing capacity reduced? a standard Landrover can tow 3.5 tonne gross to fall within the regulations for max train weight, does the max towable weight have to be reduced to keep the max train weight within the regulations?
Following your conundrum of charging a longer vehicle, I wonder if you would consider converting a large American RV, like a Winnebego, as a prolect from a large capacity petrol or deisel V8 or V10 ICE into a Tesla powered motor(s). The electric conversion would have plenty of space to house the motor(s) and large battery packs in the carpacious storage compartments. Maybe even a 150 to 250kwh battery pack to make long journey's more practical. Then, the challenge would be to see where you could get the WinnEbego charged and whether the weight of the vehicle improved the range so as to make the conversion a no-brainer. I dare say that the build could be part funded by selling the petrol/ deisel V8 or V10 ICE engine. On a different subject, I wonder if a Tesla motor conversion would work in a boat build, given that the boat could potentially carry a bigger battery pack without the same weight penalty. The challenges for this type of build would be the potential ingress of water and the ability to charge the battery pack up, notwithstanding that most marinas have access to shore power when the boat is docked. I'm thinking that if successful this may open up a new industry for boat conversions, or indeed new builds, together with more charging infrastructure at marinas.
@@spudproductions7606 LOL, you should post a video of your dropping the trailer and booking it back up! I’d be really interested to see your technique.
Having watched a few videos of people towing with the Rivian, the software immediately halves the normal range when it’s put into towing mode. Maybe yours is effected by a lesser amount because it’s already horrendously un-aerodynamic, so the trailer isn’t messing that up as much? Interesting point about ease of driving - being less tired and therefore able to concentrate more is definitely a bit plus when towing - but then a decent auto would have the same result. With regard to length of charging bays, would even a LWB Sprinter-type van even fit?
Less than 3 years from now. Airstream has a prototype with motors&built in pack underneath for the recreational market. And einride is showing one off next year for commercial class 8 trailers also with a pack slung underneath. So they are coming along slowly but surely.
EVs are getter much better for sure. That is why I am surfing channels like this and have been doing so for nearly 2 decades on the web... They still have nothing on my diesels as of yet...as they also continue to improve. Given the nature of conflict minerals required for EVs and the use of waste byproducts that Diesels can run on...my dream is Diesel/Electric. Someday, hopefully.
As an Aussie this just shows EVs still aren't suited to our long distances, especially when towing. Range anxiety is very real here, what you guys consider a day trip with possible overnight stay is "0nly" a few hundred K's each way for us and completed in a morning then home again.
Cyber Truck 500 mile range and a big bladder Easy Aussie land solar charge stations fill up when you wee a lot of beer/tea stops.. Aussie land is the first to burn up if we carry on burning toxic fossil fuel. We all need to try slow anthropogenic extinction #buzzofftoic
As a Martian commuting daily to the Moon and back while towing a Maersk Containership, this just tells me that EVs are not a viable solution. I just wish you would address this issue in the video instead of only focusing on what suits 99,99999% of the worlds population ...
Yeah, as an Aussie, we all tow trailers to work on a 300km round trip each day and there is no power anywhere along that route, just kangaroos. Plus the entire route there and back is uphill and you need to ford multiple rivers while fighting off freshwater crocs. No way an EV would survive a croc attack.
I think that because an electric motor is much more efficient (more torque in both low and high rpm) it is logical that it doesn't affect the battery that much when towing + indeed the regen for having more weight to stop will help too. I wish here in Belgium the goverment gave us the opportunity to convert vehicles. My old Pontiac Firebird could be on the road forever and it's more economical to keep a car than to produce a new one. Politics seems to choose economics above ecologic / common sense.
I love this! Where could I get the information to convert a 4Runner to EV so that I can tow my boat or dirt bikes with it as well. Also does the 4 wheel drive have low range for creeping in tight tough areas with EV? What was the total cost to convert?
Looking at the second charge station, is there a diesel generator in the building behind you? It would be great to have a sustainable source of electric for electric vehicles. Love the electric Defender!
Would it be possible to install "in wheel" motors on the trailer, not for propulsion but for the extra re-gen ? If you got to drag this weight, might as well make it work for you.
Have to consider this defender has no windows , and it drags more aerodynamically. Impressive non the less! I could expect prob 200 miles on defender 90 , eh? Again prob it depends heavily on what kind of mods and wheels it has.
Towing capacity is mainly determined by motor continuous torque thermal limit in a BEV, you need to ignore the peak torque value, since towing is a sustained load when climbing a hill for example.
I towed 400 miles each way last week. Halves range. I only had 100 miles towing range at end of each journey. Would have been impossible with electric vehicle due to tiny towing range and inability to charge with a 7m long trailer. Did 300 miles without towing on 1 day whilst away, no stops had chargers. Couldn't change stops as that was purpose of the tour. Additional stops to only charge would have made day too long.
Richard, you are talking about regen, and not having to use the brakes till the last minute, does the brake lights come on when in regen mode like F1 cars? Can you do a vlog on the subject?? Thanks Ian
@@rogerstarkey5390 .. not sure about other cars , on my wifes Leaf there is a sensor that detects the vehicle slowing & triggers the brake lights when the deceleration is above a preset value .. ( i think it's the same type of sensor that deploys airbags when it detects a crash )
I’ve made this point for a coupe of years, that charging has to accommodate cars and trucks that tow. Especially, since Tesla is coming out with the Cyber Truck. I towed a small (empty) aluminum trailer, that I use to transport motorcycles, from Texas to California. The tailgate, which is also a ramp, sticks up quite a bit and it really hurt my range. Unfortunately, I didn’t keep close records on range loss, but I did come in to 2 superchargers with ZERO miles on the clock. I refused to disconnect the trailer for charging so I had to come in with the driver’s door toward the charger, meaning that I was blocking several chargers. Not an ideal situation. I only had one person object though. There is one huge bank of Supercharges in California that has a bunch of pull through chargers, which should have been ideal for people towing. Unfortunately, they put them too close together so, even with just our Model S and no trailer, I had to do “Y” getting into the charger to avoid scraping the side of the S.
We use miles in the UK. And schools teach in metres/mm. And fuel is in litres. And fuel consumption is in Miles per gallon And liquids are measured in "pints" for beer, and "litres" for orange juice, water, milk, etc. And engineering uses millimetres. And my brain hurts! . All quite easy to convert though.
@@rogerstarkey5390 Wait you use MPH in the UK? Litres I'm used to. I'm also used to MPG. Pints I'm aware of and that's fine. I'm also used to litres for drinks. I always assumed England uses KPH
I couldn't see any reason why an EV shouldn't tow as easily, if not better, then an ICE vehicle. But I have still been disappointed byt the low towing capacity, when offered, from the mainstream EV cars. I often tow a 1.5 ton trailer with my diesel car but would love to be able to do the same with a base model EV. Range loss is less of an issue as I tow mostly for work and that is rarely more then 50 miles each way, and mostly around 10 miles. I would like an EV estate car with Land Rover towing capacity of 3500kg though.
I'd be interested in the elevations of the start & finish and your round trip efficiency. Going down in elevation with a trailer will give you more regen like you observed but you'll lose a lot of range on the return trip. My commute to work has a 250 ft drop in elevation so I get around 9 mi/kwh to work but 4 mi/kwh on the trip home.
Think it’s kind of a clickbaity title “can you tow with an electric car”. Of course you can. The real question is how is the range/battery life affected? Airports use tugs/tow trucks that use electric motors, they pull 747s around no problem!
You know that, I know that, but the amount of people that tell me "you can't tow with an electric car" is staggering and therefore warrants the title. 😁👍
You mentioned that you saw massive regen gains when braking. I just gotta ask, was the trailer braked, or not? If not, that sounds like a safety hazard.
Absolutely. In fact this has already been done, but I can't remember where I saw it. EVs don't have this ability built in, so it would have to be a custom job.
@@rogerstarkey5390 nothing that can't be planned for, armoured cable so it can't be split, 4 wire breakaway cable plug, 2 wires supply feed, 2 wires control relay cut off switch which is either activated by loss of connection or airbag activation!
Electric cars will never have a serious future unless they can be charged in 5 minutes and go 3-400 miles, yes they are fine for short journeys, but who wants to have two vehicles, I'm not against what you do with classic EVs but why not leave the IC engines in and save the money (you are not cheap) the real way forward is in Hydrogen IC engines, hopefully with firms like your doing the conversions to allow it.
There are already EVs that have that range. Hydrogen is not the future for personal transport. Here's a video where we compared hydrogen to electric and synthetic fuels. 👍 ruclips.net/video/HKuKeKeUFTQ/видео.html
Great video very tempting but my only concern is how long these batteries will last and more importantly where will they be disposed? Equally if there is a road traffic collision and the pak is damaged at the front it’s going to cost quite a large amount of money to replace?I think the reality is that consideration needs to be made for more sustainable charging points in more isolated places
OK just to be clear I am convinced about EVs (I’ve ordered an id3) but for towing range is a major issue. The twice annual 400 mile run to Cornwall with the caravan just won’t work if it needs 3 or 4 stops AND the need to unhitch & re-hitch for every charge.. It’s just grounds for divorce. I was hopeful for the EV6 but it just won’t cut it. Until trucks go BEV or green hydrogen becomes a thing we caravaners are stuck with hybrid SUVs when at least we can use electric when we get there. NB don’t go all Top Gear on me, there are 1 million caravan pullers in the UK most of whom are happy to go green if it works
@@hughmarcus1 the ev6 has a 1600kg towing capability. The Audi etron is 1.8ton they are getting there. At our last campsite there was an ev6 with a compass rally 530. That's a reasonable caravan
"Green Hydrogen" (again????) No such thing. Basically, it uses much more "green energy" that (assuming the grid isn't 100% green) could offset fossil generation. That fossil generation remaining makes the grid dirty. It's dirtier as a result of hydrogen. Hydrogen is NOT "green" in any form. Before you try "but the batteries". Simply take the money required to fund Hydrogen infrastructure and build storage. Essentially none of the extra maintenance required for Hydrogen..... Much cheaper.
Convert our 1970 swb Landy blossom. And have a Cyber truck. Tidal flow wind hydro solar charge stations fill up when you wee a lot of beer/tea stops.. Aussie land is the first to burn up if we carry on burning toxic fossil fuel. We all need to try slow anthropogenic extinction #buzzofftoxic
I can't believe you even did this!!!!!!!!!!! I can not believe you actually did something as silly as this!!!!!! Why didn't you just electrify the trailer and drive that???????????????????????????????????
Electric vehicle towing is a terrible choice for anyone who would rather be moving. 125 mile range is unacceptable. My 1982 Ford truck can go 600 miles per fillup. One stop from Detroit to the Florida border in a 40 year old truck beats every electric on range. That is all that matters. No range anxiety with 4 wheel drive too.
Nice and flat then and " STOP a FEW times " on a little 150 mile journey ? ALL the evidence says 150 mile range Ev , start towing (anything of a reasonable weight ) far less than a 100 . Oops and you can't charge with a trailer ?
I would say that The Defender having the aerodynamics of Caernarfon Castle has more impact on range than the extra weight from towing. 😅
Drive behind a Tesla.
This is your dad, alleged plug pirate. Thanks for telling me about another free charger. Always thankful being on pension.
You really don't need a son that's so disrespectful, do you? (😉)
No not disrespect just banter. 🤣😂
Freight trains in USA are Electric. diesel - electric.
torque is a good thing.
so tow with my Model 3 rated at 3500 lbs last yr towed on a 4000km trip no probs and yeah most of the tesla chargers are not set up for trailers so you have to disconnect the trailer.
You’ve answered the issue that I have with EV towing is that you need to unhitch your trailer. That adds a whole new level of faff a delay to a journey. Not least of all, as someone that tows a lot and on my own, leaving my trailer in some other part of a service area unattended, fills me with concern. I had no doubt that electric would work for towing. Still not ready to dump my diesel auto Merc and my bladder capacity is at least as good as my fuel tank capacity 😉
Ive done landrovers 2.25 petrol through to 2.5 TDis since the early 90s. Towing never impacted fuel, always felt this was due to towing calmed my driving style ( I passed me test and was handed the keys to a brand new WHITE diesel Vauxhall Astra van circa 1989...) Binary driving I have heard it referred too, Full throttle or full brake!!! The turbo engines in Landys are an art... plant the throttle spool up the turbo, gap in traffic, drop the clutch. Amazing how many hot hatches could be left behind. Watching more and more of these videos makes me want to be involved in the industry, originally and electronics engineer, moved to teaching but now fed up with trying to get disinterested xbox/playstation kids interested in DT. Been swinging spanners since I was able to walk!
Another idea that has crossed my mind is having a pack under the trailer to either use as an extender or maybe wheel motors and it could help drive. Not really researched it but when EVs were first starting to get inventors I would see range extending trailers that were nothing but a load of batteries. Just more food for thought.
Don't forget the possibilities of regen braking on trailers instead of boring old over-run brakes. Would need some smarts on the trailer controls so you don't have any problems pushing on in corners, Land Rover tried a PTO driven trailer once and it would roll the towing vehicle over if it was turning and got stuck!
Because trailers usually have good weight distribution, you could actually use normal generators connected to the wheels to charge the towing vehicle. Using hub motors could possibly cause front-wheel drive towing vehicle to go airborne when going downhill due to excessive torque, but rear-wheel drive towing vehicles wouldn't have such issues.
I think there might be legality issues with having the trailer wheels powered.
Braking, fine...but I don't think they can be driven.
The idea of extra batteries on the trailer isn't new, but its a good one tho. You would have to weigh up the expense to see if it would be viable. Eg, no batteries on trailer and extra charge stops vs the price of extra trailer batteries ( and how much extra usable range they offer)
My thought is, a couple of extra stops would be cheaper than buying more batteries. More rest stops (and pee stops) can't be a bad thing.
Also means....more stops for snacks!! 😁
Also keep in mind the legal tow weight, a 90 defender towing a heavy beetle on a 650 kilo trailer is getting close to legal tow limits, another 500 kilos of trailer weight ain't a great idea.
@@ForeverNeverwhere1 very true as well
Always said when cars turn up on trailers, like works of art being displayed. It's when people have cars they can't rely on to get them there.
I wanted to take 2 vehicles, seemed like the obvious solution. Nothing funnier than a Land Rover out accelerating some supercars. 😆😁👍
@@ElectricClassicCars
I'll bet the "AH! BUT!" brigade were "perplexed" to say the least?
I had thought about converting a GMC motorhome. It might be that if it could make it camp ground to camp ground it could charge over night while you're sleeping and be ready for the next morning. Admitted you would be limited to the mileage per day depending on the pack you have but it sure seems doable. With the GMC being front wheel drive seems it would be simple to convert.
Thanks Moggie. More and more reasons to go electric, just from watching your videos 👍
Thanks Martin 👍😀
There are plenty of reasons not to go electric. You obviously don't know that the amount of carbon emissions from making the batteries and components going into to that car far outweigh driving that original gas powered car for decades and decades and decades. Besides just wanting an electric car, there is quite literally no benefit, either to the consumer or the environment.
@@xGoobeyBearx Frankly speaking, Nolan....I don't give a shit what you think.
Intresting thought about more regen when towing, that coould be benifical aspect that need further work on!!
Bonsoir moi je ne parle pas l'anglais mais j'aime beaucoup les 4x4 de toutes marques
I do love seeing that Landy go out and get used.
Used and abused. 😁😜👍
Looks like a really good idea. I wonder which classic cars are easiest to convert to full electric.
What are your thoughts on Ford offering an “electric crate motor” for sale through their performance parts devision? Can we expect to start seeing them replacing Tesla’s in some future builds?
Due to their extremely high torque electric vehicles make superb high speed tow vehicles.
Over very short distances.
i dont doubt that they "can" tow, its a matter of how far they can tow.
Excellent. One more in the eye for the nay Sayers. E v's are the only way forward. Can't comment to much on the bladder problem, it comes with age. Yes the charge point situation really needs to be addressed. The Ev's will really take off when that is sorted. Mind you, you nearly did in that monster Beetle.
Poor Spud, he’s missing out on a road trip and an ice cream
I've said it before. Where I live (USA). There is very little in the way of support for electric vehicles. Meaning charging stations. That's where you guys are way ahead of us. It appears you have embraced this where we still cling to gas. Personally I have a Dodge Durango, I'm in an apartment in Kansas. There is literally nothing hear. Maybe in Kansas city? I love the sound of an American V8. But I think if we had some kind of electric grid to support electric vehicles I would consider changing
Tesla alone has more than 1,200 Supercharger *locations* in the US, plus loads of destination chargers.
Take look at the recent "Now You Know" YT episode entitled "Tesla charging expert".
They consider the "electric grid", mentioning apartment owners and HOA.
.
Things are changing.
What part of Kansas? There are Tesla chargers all over Kansas. Granted not much in the way of other networks, but plenty for a Tesla. The biggest factor in owning an EV is being able to charge at home, at night. If you could figure out a solution at the apartment complex, it would be very possible to own a Tesla.
@@allterrainrandy2587 just to be clear. I haven't been actively searching for charge stations, however. I live in Wichita and after reading your comment I did a google search. It seems that there are supposed to be 85 stations around the Wichita area. I stand corrected.
However as I live in an apartment there are no charging stations here, so no place for overnight charging. I would need to drive somewhere and wait while tge car was charging. Not very convenient. If I owned my own home that accessory would be an obvious upgrade.
Again it's just my opinion but I think more of us need to pressure our elected officials to legislate funding for upgrading the electric grids around the country. Unfortunately gun and oil lobbies provide big funding to keep us under their collective thumbs. With little chance of moving the bar.
@@edwardbroyles9738 night charging makes an EV convenient. Charging in the city you live in isn't super important, most daily drives are made with the home charging. When you travel that's when fast chargers matter. So along your route and at your destination is what matters.
I not a fan of the government being involved in anything they shouldn't be involved in. So, I'm not a fan of subsidies, having said that, the oil and gas industry gets about 10x the subsidies as the EV industry. Electric is better than gas, but the weak link is the battery and charging network, it is changing and quick, and 1 battery breakthrough would totally tip it. I think the private sector will figure it out before the government messes it up.
As far as the apartment issue, talk with your landlord and see what can be done. Any smart landlord would want EV charging capability in their property. They just need educated as to why.
@@allterrainrandy2587 I agree up to a point. But where I think the government will likely create a choke point is just what you mentioned. Subsidies. They will need to step in to help the private sector build up the electric grid system. I'm sure private entities have the money but the will have an issue if the government slow walks giving them the clearances to actually build. I don't have much faith in that.
If you don’t have an electric Defender handy, a Model X is a great tow car as well
We would love to test the model X 😀
30 years as a mechanic and I'm done with the ICE! I'm just waiting for Toyota to release an EV pick-up.
Could be an awful long wait. Potentially, bankruptcy might occur first.
@@andyonions7864 Toyota's POB is similar to others in the industry, including Tesla, at 40-50%.
@@Brad-lt6mr The Altman-Z score says otherwise.
@@andyonions7864 Still higher than their competition, Ford and GM look worse.
@@andyonions7864 bankruptcy? Toyota? 😂😂😂😂😂😂
Should have put the Beetle on backwards. 130 mile range then...
Shame you haven't got a link cable so you can use the batteries in the bug to extend your range.
🤔
400v(?) cable running between moving vehicles, with a flexible linkage between them?
That would make an accident "interesting"?
And two other factors are hurting you: windows are rolled down and the -Range- Land Rover is not the most aerodynamic vehicle in the first place. All in all I'd say the towing is having a negative effect of course, but not the "50% range drop when towing!" that we hear so much from other people. To be fair, though, gas vehicles also become significantly less efficient when they're towing too though perhaps not quite as much as electric vehicles.
@@alanmay7929
I'd LOVE to see your calculations to prove petrol (/diesel) vehicles somehow retain more efficiency.
(Should be a good laugh)
.
Apart from justifying them carrying more (Heavy) fuel to keep topped up, your interpretation of "the laws of physics" applied to regenerative braking in EVs and the lack thereof in ICE vehicles should be interesting.
JustWasted3Hours
Interesting last paragraph.
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Since efficiency is essentially reduced by pulling extra mass with the same energy source, the two systems would require a similar increase in output, resulting in similar losses.
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However, logic dictates that one system using the momentum of that mass to *replenish* energy when slowing down would make that system *gain* efficiency in comparison to the other?
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Discuss.
@@alanmay7929
"Flat" doesn't matter, in fact it's probably better. You put an given amount of energy in to accelerate a given mass to a given speed, then minus drag and friction, you can regen the same amount, in the opposite direction to come to a halt.
(Isaac Newton and all that.... Aka "physics")
Flat road, fewer variables, regen more effective on average.
@@alanmay7929
Diesel is *Never* "super efficient". It's simply more efficient than petrol.
As for "seeing the point", you don't even seem to understand conservation of energy, so I'll reserve judgement on your opinion.
On the highway you spend most of your energy pushing air out of the way. So it makes sense that a trailer that is shorter than your rover wouldn’t have an enormous reduction.
Hello, what would you say the weight in Lbs,is the trailer and car that you towed? I drive a tow about 2000 lbs daily here in the States. And with everything that is going on with our Government I. Looking for a conversion company like your's here.
My assumption was that the reason that towing hasn't affected your range as much as effected is because your open Land Rover is a four wheeled speed brake, so adding an open trailer doesn't add that much more drag. I would imagine that towing with a Model Y would reduce the range far more significantly.
It would of been nice to know what the combined weight of the trailer and the beetle was. Having said that, its fair to say its over 1.5 ton and having towed 1.5 ton with the model Y (effortless by the way), the range drop is far more significant even just with the trailer alone @ 450kg.
I tow a caravan with a Toyota estima hybrid and the boost with electric motors makes towing a lot easier
Can you not use the break of the trailer to help regen? and why not add battery on the trailer to have more range?
Just need the price to come down to a more realistic level.
I will get my Discovery 1 converted.
Aerodynamic drag tends to have more impact on efficiency than the extra weight. The trailer and VW load with the aero efficiency of the Forth Bridge only adds to the drag of the Landy. I'll bet that the sight of a Land Rover towing a Beetle at motorway speeds turned a few heads! 😁👍
You changed the tyres to road tyres from the bf goodrich offroad tyres that were on it the other time
Need an umbilical from the towed vehicle. You are already going to tow it, might as well use its battery too.
still waiting for to know, how you managed to keep CCS charging in your converted LR EV
what's the feasibility of somehow connecting the battery system of a towed vehicle to the towing vehicle?
Is the towing capacity reduced? a standard Landrover can tow 3.5 tonne gross to fall within the regulations for max train weight, does the max towable weight have to be reduced to keep the max train weight within the regulations?
The towable weight is the same. 👍
EV’s can do many things. Including not ruining your weekend.
So e have a 1949 chevy 3600 , we are interested in ding a elec convert , what are we looking at?
one thing i am curious about is if you had electric trailer brakes and how that would effect it?
Yeah, yeah, yeah…it’s all torque
Very good 😀
Following your conundrum of charging a longer vehicle, I wonder if you would consider converting a large American RV, like a Winnebego, as a prolect from a large capacity petrol or deisel V8 or V10 ICE into a Tesla powered motor(s).
The electric conversion would have plenty of space to house the motor(s) and large battery packs in the carpacious storage compartments. Maybe even a 150 to 250kwh battery pack to make long journey's more practical.
Then, the challenge would be to see where you could get the WinnEbego charged and whether the weight of the vehicle improved the range so as to make the conversion a no-brainer.
I dare say that the build could be part funded by selling the petrol/ deisel V8 or V10 ICE engine.
On a different subject, I wonder if a Tesla motor conversion would work in a boat build, given that the boat could potentially carry a bigger battery pack without the same weight penalty.
The challenges for this type of build would be the potential ingress of water and the ability to charge the battery pack up, notwithstanding that most marinas have access to shore power when the boat is docked.
I'm thinking that if successful this may open up a new industry for boat conversions, or indeed new builds, together with more charging infrastructure at marinas.
Your “5 minute” stop didn’t include dropping the trailer and hooking it back up-obviously.
Ask how much the electricity price was. You will find out that he paid himself from the additional 5 minutes hooking - unhooking :P
Takes about a minute to unhitch and hitch trailer. 😀
@@spudproductions7606 WOW, you guys must be genius with a trailer! Of course there are 2 of you and it’s only me by myself.
@@spudproductions7606 LOL, you should post a video of your dropping the trailer and booking it back up! I’d be really interested to see your technique.
Great video guys 👌
Having watched a few videos of people towing with the Rivian, the software immediately halves the normal range when it’s put into towing mode. Maybe yours is effected by a lesser amount because it’s already horrendously un-aerodynamic, so the trailer isn’t messing that up as much? Interesting point about ease of driving - being less tired and therefore able to concentrate more is definitely a bit plus when towing - but then a decent auto would have the same result. With regard to length of charging bays, would even a LWB Sprinter-type van even fit?
Easier than an automatic as the regen makes it single pedal driving. Slowing down gradually naturally.
How would that compare with your other VW, towing the bug like your doing with the Defender?
Still sceptical that it would be feasible in the my line of work pulling a 2 tonne digger everyday. However , the idea seems good in theory.
Recent episode of "Now You Know" YT channel tested a Rivian RT1 towing a CAT digger at maximum capacity.
Worked REALLY well.
When are we going to see electric trailers? Zero effect on range and AWD outfit for the win.
Yep, I reckon that could be in our future. 😁👍
Pushing an EV?
In the wet?
🤔
Less than 3 years from now. Airstream has a prototype with motors&built in pack underneath for the recreational market. And einride is showing one off next year for commercial class 8 trailers also with a pack slung underneath. So they are coming along slowly but surely.
Oh dear, not the old "can you get this?, I forgot my wallet" ploy.
😂😂
together, these two have one proper beard 😂
😂
EVs are getter much better for sure. That is why I am surfing channels like this and have been doing so for nearly 2 decades on the web... They still have nothing on my diesels as of yet...as they also continue to improve.
Given the nature of conflict minerals required for EVs and the use of waste byproducts that Diesels can run on...my dream is Diesel/Electric.
Someday, hopefully.
Could they put longer charger cables so you can make them reach
They need to make them so you can drive up next to it and drive forward away from it so you trailer or caravan etc can stay hitched.
@@Mike_Costello That is a parking place, not a pass thru place.
@@LosZonga Yes that's the whole idea of building better charge stations.
@@Mike_Costello
Niche market.
But "side chargers" will happen..... To some extent.
As an Aussie this just shows EVs still aren't suited to our long distances, especially when towing.
Range anxiety is very real here, what you guys consider a day trip with possible overnight stay is "0nly" a few hundred K's each way for us and completed in a morning then home again.
Cyber Truck 500 mile range and a big bladder Easy Aussie land solar charge stations fill up when you wee a lot of beer/tea stops.. Aussie land is the first to burn up if we carry on burning toxic fossil fuel. We all need to try slow anthropogenic extinction #buzzofftoic
As a Martian commuting daily to the Moon and back while towing a Maersk Containership, this just tells me that EVs are not a viable solution. I just wish you would address this issue in the video instead of only focusing on what suits 99,99999% of the worlds population ...
Yeah, as an Aussie, we all tow trailers to work on a 300km round trip each day and there is no power anywhere along that route, just kangaroos. Plus the entire route there and back is uphill and you need to ford multiple rivers while fighting off freshwater crocs. No way an EV would survive a croc attack.
I think that because an electric motor is much more efficient (more torque in both low and high rpm) it is logical that it doesn't affect the battery that much when towing + indeed the regen for having more weight to stop will help too. I wish here in Belgium the goverment gave us the opportunity to convert vehicles. My old Pontiac Firebird could be on the road forever and it's more economical to keep a car than to produce a new one. Politics seems to choose economics above ecologic / common sense.
The same in Spain.
How much does electric kit cost?
Do you feel the over-run brakes on the trailer are robbing you of some regen, or do they only kick in under heavy braking?
From memory I think they were coming on under heavy breaking. 👍
I love this! Where could I get the information to convert a 4Runner to EV so that I can tow my boat or dirt bikes with it as well. Also does the 4 wheel drive have low range for creeping in tight tough areas with EV? What was the total cost to convert?
Did you have to change the Regen setting for towing, or was it automatic somehow?
i'd like to know how much the fillups actually cost
So, you didn't say what it was. What was the miles/kWh (or whatever) efficacy both towing the Bug and just the LR not towing?
Mentioned.
About 20%(?) range reducing while towing?
I had a stupid idea, how about putting a tesla or something else and put it in a Citroen Ami? That would be hilarious!
Ever heard of "Quart in a pint pot"?
The physical volume of the vehicles MIGHT be a problem?.... Maybe?
@@rogerstarkey5390 I said that it was a stupid idea... But ECC liked the comment so.....
Looking at the second charge station, is there a diesel generator in the building behind you? It would be great to have a sustainable source of electric for electric vehicles. Love the electric Defender!
No, it’s the sub station. 👍
Would it be possible to install "in wheel" motors on the trailer, not for propulsion but for the extra re-gen ? If you got to drag this weight, might as well make it work for you.
Good idea 👍
could you not modify a trailer to contain more battery packs then have a way of connecting it to the drive unit to add range?
Connecting while moving would no doubt be a regulatory minefield.
Could you add some batteries to the trailer and connect to the Defender while driving. Could double your range.
Never say 'Cant' Moggie - Some muppet will have their caravan hanging out of an EV space
Hello mate 👍
Have to consider this defender has no windows , and it drags more aerodynamically. Impressive non the less! I could expect prob 200 miles on defender 90 , eh? Again prob it depends heavily on what kind of mods and wheels it has.
Any motorcycles or scooters?
Is there any additional tuning or hardware you need for towing? Like a tow package type of additional set up?
Just a tow bar 😀
Towing capacity is mainly determined by motor continuous torque thermal limit in a BEV, you need to ignore the peak torque value, since towing is a sustained load when climbing a hill for example.
I reckon I'd have the VW reversed onto the car trailer. keeping the weight forward.
Don't forget there's a front battery pack in it so the weight distribution isn't so rear biased like in a petrol one. 👍
I towed 400 miles each way last week. Halves range. I only had 100 miles towing range at end of each journey. Would have been impossible with electric vehicle due to tiny towing range and inability to charge with a 7m long trailer. Did 300 miles without towing on 1 day whilst away, no stops had chargers. Couldn't change stops as that was purpose of the tour. Additional stops to only charge would have made day too long.
Richard, you are talking about regen, and not having to use the brakes till the last minute, does the brake lights come on when in regen mode like F1 cars? Can you do a vlog on the subject??
Thanks Ian
Yes, the brake lights come on when it's slowing down on regen alone without touching the brake pedal
Just a switch on the accelerator linkage....?
@@rogerstarkey5390 .. not sure about other cars , on my wifes Leaf there is a sensor that detects the vehicle slowing & triggers the brake lights when the deceleration is above a preset value .. ( i think it's the same type of sensor that deploys airbags when it detects a crash )
could you put a battery in a caravan that you are towing and hook it up to electric vechile to give you a better range ?
Theoretically yes. I believe airstream have built a proof of concept doing just that. 👍
I’ve made this point for a coupe of years, that charging has to accommodate cars and trucks that tow. Especially, since Tesla is coming out with the Cyber Truck. I towed a small (empty) aluminum trailer, that I use to transport motorcycles, from Texas to California. The tailgate, which is also a ramp, sticks up quite a bit and it really hurt my range. Unfortunately, I didn’t keep close records on range loss, but I did come in to 2 superchargers with ZERO miles on the clock. I refused to disconnect the trailer for charging so I had to come in with the driver’s door toward the charger, meaning that I was blocking several chargers. Not an ideal situation. I only had one person object though. There is one huge bank of Supercharges in California that has a bunch of pull through chargers, which should have been ideal for people towing. Unfortunately, they put them too close together so, even with just our Model S and no trailer, I had to do “Y” getting into the charger to avoid scraping the side of the S.
They use miles in the UK? Not kilometers?
We use miles in the UK.
And schools teach in metres/mm.
And fuel is in litres.
And fuel consumption is in Miles per gallon
And liquids are measured in "pints" for beer, and "litres" for orange juice, water, milk, etc.
And engineering uses millimetres.
And my brain hurts!
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All quite easy to convert though.
@@rogerstarkey5390 Wait you use MPH in the UK? Litres I'm used to. I'm also used to MPG. Pints I'm aware of and that's fine. I'm also used to litres for drinks. I always assumed England uses KPH
I'm sure the Brits still think they have an empire! 🤣😂
Is this the green beetle?
Remembered his wallet 😂
I couldn't see any reason why an EV shouldn't tow as easily, if not better, then an ICE vehicle. But I have still been disappointed byt the low towing capacity, when offered, from the mainstream EV cars.
I often tow a 1.5 ton trailer with my diesel car but would love to be able to do the same with a base model EV. Range loss is less of an issue as I tow mostly for work and that is rarely more then 50 miles each way, and mostly around 10 miles.
I would like an EV estate car with Land Rover towing capacity of 3500kg though.
@@alanmay7929
You've forgotten the "out drag an Alfa, while towing an Alfa" example from a few years ago?
How much charging fee?
I'd be interested in the elevations of the start & finish and your round trip efficiency. Going down in elevation with a trailer will give you more regen like you observed but you'll lose a lot of range on the return trip. My commute to work has a 250 ft drop in elevation so I get around 9 mi/kwh to work but 4 mi/kwh on the trip home.
Think it’s kind of a clickbaity title “can you tow with an electric car”. Of course you can. The real question is how is the range/battery life affected? Airports use tugs/tow trucks that use electric motors, they pull 747s around no problem!
You know that, I know that, but the amount of people that tell me "you can't tow with an electric car" is staggering and therefore warrants the title. 😁👍
You mentioned that you saw massive regen gains when braking. I just gotta ask, was the trailer braked, or not? If not, that sounds like a safety hazard.
Could you in theory, set up a car caravan combo with a range extending battery pack in the caravan?
Absolutely. In fact this has already been done, but I can't remember where I saw it. EVs don't have this ability built in, so it would have to be a custom job.
Running 6 feet of high voltage cable between the two?
Great until there's an accident? (They "happen")
@@rogerstarkey5390 nothing that can't be planned for, armoured cable so it can't be split, 4 wire breakaway cable plug, 2 wires supply feed, 2 wires control relay cut off switch which is either activated by loss of connection or airbag activation!
@@pauldemello6611
But try and get it through the MOT.
Extra batteries = extra weight. It would likely put you over GVM.
Electric cars will never have a serious future unless they can be charged in 5 minutes and go 3-400 miles, yes they are fine for short journeys, but who wants to have two vehicles, I'm not against what you do with classic EVs but why not leave the IC engines in and save the money (you are not cheap) the real way forward is in Hydrogen IC engines, hopefully with firms like your doing the conversions to allow it.
There are already EVs that have that range. Hydrogen is not the future for personal transport. Here's a video where we compared hydrogen to electric and synthetic fuels. 👍 ruclips.net/video/HKuKeKeUFTQ/видео.html
So what’s the actual range distance before charging between towing and just driving . Was there a significant difference between the two?
I’d say towing reduced the range by about 1/3.👍
Any news about the Ferrari?
Update episode coming soon. 😀
Great video very tempting but my only concern is how long these batteries will last and more importantly where will they be disposed? Equally if there is a road traffic collision and the pak is damaged at the front it’s going to cost quite a large amount of money to replace?I think the reality is that consideration needs to be made for more sustainable charging points in more isolated places
OK just to be clear I am convinced about EVs (I’ve ordered an id3) but for towing range is a major issue.
The twice annual 400 mile run to Cornwall with the caravan just won’t work if it needs 3 or 4 stops AND the need to unhitch & re-hitch for every charge.. It’s just grounds for divorce.
I was hopeful for the EV6 but it just won’t cut it. Until trucks go BEV or green hydrogen becomes a thing we caravaners are stuck with hybrid SUVs when at least we can use electric when we get there.
NB don’t go all Top Gear on me, there are 1 million caravan pullers in the UK most of whom are happy to go green if it works
Your big problem with a new EV is the low towing limit. The E Vivaro & the ID4 are rated at 1100kg. That’s just a camping trailer. 😬
@@hughmarcus1 the ev6 has a 1600kg towing capability.
The Audi etron is 1.8ton they are getting there.
At our last campsite there was an ev6 with a compass rally 530.
That's a reasonable caravan
"Green Hydrogen" (again????)
No such thing.
Basically, it uses much more "green energy" that (assuming the grid isn't 100% green) could offset fossil generation.
That fossil generation remaining makes the grid dirty.
It's dirtier as a result of hydrogen.
Hydrogen is NOT "green" in any form.
Before you try "but the batteries".
Simply take the money required to fund Hydrogen infrastructure and build storage.
Essentially none of the extra maintenance required for Hydrogen..... Much cheaper.
Convert our 1970 swb Landy blossom. And have a Cyber truck. Tidal flow wind hydro solar charge stations fill up when you wee a lot of beer/tea stops.. Aussie land is the first to burn up if we carry on burning toxic fossil fuel. We all need to try slow anthropogenic extinction #buzzofftoxic
That's the idea.
Now your "coal licker" is gone, do you think you might have a chance?
I can't believe you even did this!!!!!!!!!!! I can not believe you actually did something as silly as this!!!!!!
Why didn't you just electrify the trailer and drive that???????????????????????????????????
Had to give myself a thumbs up!
Electric vehicle towing is a terrible choice for anyone who would rather be moving. 125 mile range is unacceptable. My 1982 Ford truck can go 600 miles per fillup. One stop from Detroit to the Florida border in a 40 year old truck beats every electric on range. That is all that matters. No range anxiety with 4 wheel drive too.
i came here from car wow
Welcome 😀
So electric vehicles are perfect for the incontinent who need to stop every 40 miles.
Nice and flat then and " STOP a FEW times " on a little 150 mile journey ? ALL the evidence says 150 mile range Ev , start towing (anything of a reasonable weight ) far less than a 100 . Oops and you can't charge with a trailer ?
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