Martin Audio WSXa Subwoofer Explanation, Impressions, & Why We Got Them in 2019
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- Опубликовано: 21 июл 2019
- We got some Martin Audio WSXa Subwoofers, so let's talk about them!
But hold on... these are old?! There was a time many years ago when these were one of Martin Audio's flagship, top of the line subwoofers. So, why did we get them in 2019? What makes them good, are we crazy, and more topics discussed in this video!
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Sold all our front loaded and switched to folded horns. Driving them at 8 ohms also adds more control over the woofer since amps have a better damping factor at higher resistance. 106 db at 1 watt...doesnt take much to push them.
You guys really changed my opinion on Martin, them subs look killer along with the tops you have, I was blown away by the spl of them.
Great knowledge video on subs! Nice one guys! Also when you play techno music in these, they are just incredible. A little bit like Funktion one system! The attack is crazy
Learnt alot in this video, cheers :) Also good to see you using some proper powersoft power to push them.
I used to mix on a system that had some EM Acoustics Quakes which were lovely. When not driven to their limit it felt a lot more omni directional and you couldn't pin point where the sub was coming from filling the venue. Very smooth and musical. They replaced them with D&B Q Subs (flown) and J Subs to meet rider requirements.
I do a lot of touring and outdoor PA where I only really see L'Acoustics and D&B levels of systems. Larger flown arrays are full range and so the subs are used as an extension of that. That's where time alignment is key for coupling between the systems. This can be more difficult with horn loaded subs due to them changing the arrival times of lower frequencies due to the cabinet interacting. I also like L'Acoustics approach to SB28, KS28 etc as I can simply make any sub array that I want, be it stacked cardiod, endfire, arc'd due to them being a very simple design.
We have 12 WSX and may be 4 more this year ! Work with mythic old system martin 12x b115 8x mh 212 & hf2m , it's sounds really amazing ! lets go WSX ♥ from france
pareil 12wsx et h3 :)
tu es d'ou?
Let's talk about bass. Now this sub is crazy, very fast, clean and thumps. A no-brainer for the price. L acoustics ks28 is almost similar sounding. Very musical, clean and fast. It is a bit louder, but $4000 more. A deal breaker. The meyer sound lfc1100 is in the same class, just powered and sounds amazing. Still, costs a sh*t ton of money. Jbl has the vtx g28. Not sure how they sound. Imo the wsxa is an amazing deal and there is at least for now, absolutely no reason to upgrade. Unless the dealers run out of subs. Martin wins for me. Very clean british sound that hummmms along. L acoustics is an option, but only if you have a couple of kidneys lying around. Nontheless, great video. I like talking about subs, because I love bass. Sorry if I wasted your time reading this.
I've heard the G28 and while it's a great sub, I've heard faster bass reflex 2x18s, specifically the EV X12-128 being one. That sub is the most responsive sounding bass reflex 2x18 that I've ever heard. Doug also says the KS28 sounds relatively slow, I'd love for him to comment his thoughts about KS28 vs X12 vs WSXa in regards to speed.
KS28 perhaps a bit slower than X12 in terms of speed, although it's tough to say without doing a side by side. KS28 certainly less distortion though, and seems to me that it gets lower. WSXa of course is the fastest, and also gets the least low. I would say WSXa is probably just as "clean" as KS28, but KS28 seems to have a certain kind of "smooth" sound, which may be a result of it being less fast and therefore less detailed, which people may or may not prefer!
@@dougberry4674 yeah, the ks28 has a very smooth sound, wich makes it great for house music but not so much for the very high bpm trance or edm. I'm buying subs in the future. The rcf sub 9007. Only 4 but later on I will expand. RCF because I also look into buying the hdl 20a. Martins do sound clearer, but they are way more expensive. Subs on the other hand are way more expensive from rcf. The sub 9007 sounds fast to my ears and goes crazy low.
@@KAYBE_CO actually 9007s are not cheaper than Martin at all, and I would say that Martin WPM would give hdl-20a a run for it's money and it's WAY cheaper
@@KAYBE_CO is that the dual 21"s?
Hi,
Can you tell something about Martin Audio WLX?
That should be a smaller (easier) then WSX.
Thx
Cardiod works well with horns but I've found that it's not needed as much since they are a bit more directional especially as you add more boxes. I think the size is a big factor why people don't use folded horns. Also, it requires someone who knows what they're doing to get the most out of fthem. Phase alignment with other drivers is not as straight forward and they also seem to work better in center clusters verses having them spaced out. One thing we learned early on is that high-passing is essential for the ones we use (Cerwin Vega Earthquakes).
Forgot to talk about an interesting experience we had with setting delay on the wsxa at a gig after being used to the soundbridge dual 18s
@@dougberry4674 Like a delayed arc?
Thx for good video. Can you explain Cardioid. Does make them with Horn Subwoofers to? Example with WSXa?
Cardioid is a pattern. Look up sound wave dispersion.
The subs are even faster with the great dapning factor of the powersoft amps.
SoundFreak88 lab Gruppen also makes some great amps as well.
@@Spectre361 excellent amps but I believe more expensive but you could use a Fp14000 easily on these subs
I have a few VUE HS221's that i'm very happy with. Have you heard any of the VUE stuff?
Doug and I have heard the al-4, al-8, and hs221 at a local demo a little while ago. I was overall impressed with all 3 products, but nothing wow-ed me. To be honest, during that demo I was trying to force myself to like the tops more than I actually did, because I really wanted to like them. They're a cool design with a unique material for the HF driver's diaphragm. But, besides the systems being improperly deployed which made coverage horrendous (moving 6 inches in any direction drastically changed what the system sounded like), the tops almost sounded forced without having any real distortion. Like they sounded very processed, vs Martin kit which is probably processed more but sounds much more natural to me. HS221 was awesome, very cool sub that sounds great, but it's definitely no MLX. I'm still waiting on a product from any company to impress me more than Martin Audio products have.
Hey you guys! I really like your amazing approaches to both the bigger and the more compact gigs. As for horn loaded subs, I totally agree on the preference of these highly efficient box enclosures. I do have a dilemma though. What would be an overall better option in terms of loudness, depth and quality; 6 Martin Audio F2B's or 4 Funktion one F218's? (in case of a large outdoor gig for instance)
Having heard neither, it's tough to say. Based on the info I found online, neither get beneath 40hz, but the Martin's may be flatter down to that frequency, so I'd go with the 6 Martins.
@@dougberry4674 Thanks very much! I really was having a hard time outweighing number of boxes against woofer size. If there is anyone in the comments who did hear either one or both systems, I would love to hear one's opinion!
How do these compare to the bassboss vs21 or the ssp218?
Great video as always, glad to see you guys adding more and more informational content in addition to the logs. Given the circumstances with being a Martin dealer and all, was acquiring specifically a horn subwoofer the goal for the next sub purchase or were other options (box designs) considered? I know the first thought to my mind and I'm sure others would be the TH118XL, but as mentioned with SB28's price likely would be the inhibiting factor. I was fortunate enough to experience the new Pioneer XY system with 218HSs, the speed and punch of the system crushed the PK trinity rig next door but didn't extend anywhere near as low the CX800s.
Horns were not a requirement, but we did always like them on paper, so we were excited to try them now
Since we started, the subs we wanted in order were:
-Our first subs, behringer b1800d
-Then we wanted ev ETX 18sp, which we got
-Then we started renting soundbridge dual 18s, but did not want to buy them because...
-we wanted th118 for a while, which we didn't get
-Then we wanted ev x12-128 after we heard it, which we almost got but...
-then we heard Martin sx218, which we almost got instead, but...
-then we heard Martin MLX, and heard a passive version was coming (sxh218) which we were planning on getting but...
-then we got wsxa, and then got some more.
-now, we still plan on getting sxh218 at some point
what do you guys think about LAB horn subs? I have 6 LAB horns and they are crazy
I've never heard any, but I'm familiar with them in that I know they're front loaded horns with a sealed rear chamber with a pair of Emenence Lab12 drivers per cabinet, and Tom Danley designed them and released the plans for free onto one of the old sound forums. I've never seen any concrete specs about them in terms of SPL or frequency response, but from what I know they're huge so I imagine they get pretty low.
Wow, I'm impressed by your business. How old are you Doug?
amazing for tekno outdoors
hard to make em sing in a small room though
On what kind of amplifier do you run these? I run mine on a Crest CA12
4 on 1 powersoft k3 dsp
Honestly for what you do you have one hell of a bargain… I have heard these and they are awesome for EDM. With working in the sound world from what I can tell is that Cost to Produce a Horn Enclosure VS a Typical Front Loaded is expensive and time consuming. Certain companies still make horn loaded enclosures.. Specially for Night Clubs...
I myself prefer clean accurate sounding speakers... The way you said the info is like the classic argument the JBL Vertec is one of the best Large Format Line Arrays. Sure it is tried and true however look at brands like Martin, Meyer, dB Acoustic and the like.. They are using newer technology to there advantage....
Another use case where these subs would be incredible is metal performances where you have a lot of fast double kicks. These subs would absolutely excel at that, as there would be 0 smearing of the LF from the double kicks.
@@alexberry3833 i totally agree. I come from a world of listening to audio on high end systems like Macintosh being used with $5000 speakers in a listening room...
I find it amazing what is out there and what people dont know about...
When you have a chance look up Dave Ratts Super sub... Lets just say it makes most subs look like a joke...
He has created some of the best speakers in the world...
8:52 had me dead
Lmfao
Plenty of systems use horns still. Nexo, D&B, Martin, Funktion One, Void, D.A.S, Meyer and EAW do as well as others. Hors for the win.
When's the next gig log????
in two weeks!
Wow!! We’ve been spoiled, 2x videos in a year! 😉
I run four stacks of W8C/WSX. The only downside for me is, like all horn loaded subs, they get a bit thin in small rooms. Outdoors or in a big room they're just epic.
Whats the reason for them getting thin?
Hello, will it make a difference if you put them flat instead of straight up?
Always run them flat and bilaterally symmetrical. The perfect setup is a ground stack of 2x2. They'll push WAY more power with the horns combined like this.
@@rvoiseyIs it the same for any horned sub? Should i always run them flat? Running them straight up means i can put my tops on top of then though..
How do these compare with jbl srx828sp in terms of output?
These are about 4-5db louder, so about equal to two srx828, and are flatter to a lower frequency
You are trying to compare apples to oranges
So in regards why would you buy a sxh sub over a wsx?
Gets lower, twice as loud, will be supported by Martin for a long time to come, and is the sub that accompanies modern wavefront precision arrays if clients want a complete system
what are the best replacement drivers for WSX ?
Martin Audio still stocks replacement drivers specific for WSXa last time we checked. If you need some, and you're in the USA, send Doug an email at doug@slmentertainment.com
If you ever need drivers for the WSX and you can't get originals or recone kits, you can also contact Precision Devices. They have a very good handle on Martiin Audio designs and can help you out with a modified version of one of their drivers.
Cerwin Vega TS-42 sounds like a dual 21s but their powered ones is quite bad.. But its a 18" and its really deep which makes it sound like it is distorted
i've never heard any cerwin vega product
@@dougberry4674 Don't!😭😂 Your ears will bleed 🩸
@@soundfreak8892 Yeah, for all the wrong reasons lol.
What do you think about the CSX series subs? (3rd comment on this vid)
They're the installation version of the regular SX subs, but they're identical in terms of performance, so they're great. Technically they're discontinued, but that was just to have more concise organization of Martins subwoofer line up. The only difference was that CSX had phoenix connectors, not speakon, and the base model installation passive subs had MDF cabinets, not plywood.
What amps do you run them on?
We run 4 wsxa on 1 Powersoft k3 dsp
@@dougberry4674 that is cool what do you think of L-acoustics
Martin audio kit is OKish I guess. Great video
You're British aren't ya?
Anyhow, if Martin is Ok'ish, what's the dogs bollocks?
@@AB-80X Lacoustics and d&b audiotechnik are the dogs nuts
@@chrisclose7793 L'Acoustics? You've been watching too many Dave Rat videos.
If anyone ever did a disservice to the entire industry, it was Christian Heil when e came up with DOSC. Few line arrays are any good, and L'Acoustics are among the worst. Do you actually work in the industry and mix on large scale systems? Asking because unless you are more interested in getting home early because it's fast to rig, L'Acoustics has nothing to offer in terms of SQ. As much as I hate it, I'd rather mix on a Geo T than any L'Acoustics banana.
@@AB-80X I do work in the industry I do like Martin audio kit especially their classic w8 series
Do you know Outline?
The Outline Point source series are the best Loudspeakers that i Ever heard
Never heard of them.
@@alexberry3833 outline.it/
Ks28 is definitly the best reflex dual 18 out there with also Meyer 1100lfc. They are the only reflex sub that Dont sound like a normal reflex sub.
What i find intressting is that a lot of manufacture use the same driver in their sub with a similar inclosure. But they sound way diffrent. For exemple a nexo rs18 use a b&c sw115 and also the Meyer 1100lfc use a 18sw115 and those two sub sounds wayy diffrent.
I think as today, its all about prossessing and amplification that make a better Product and not that Much about the phisycal design.
Anyway !! If you want a good sub you should look at void Acoustics and martin audio for sure !!
Having never heard the KS28 in person, and only having Doug's opinions of it as my information for how it sounds, I'd pick an EV X12-128 over the KS28. Doug says the KS is relatively slow, whereas the X12 is the fastest and most responsive sounding bass reflex 2x18 that I've ever heard.
@@alexberry3833 hopefully you guys get a chance to use some Meyer sound gear one day!
Physical design really does play a role in the sound of a product
You guys still carry them?
Yep! Planning on getting 4 more in addition to our current 4
@@dougberry4674 I’m really tempted to get a pair. Based on your recommendation I’m leaning towards them
FIRST COMMENT 🙌😤😈🤭💀🙈👀💦💯
babe
so difficult working condition for that speaker, use only with good limiter setup!
Sorry to hear that, we've had no issues with ours! We use a powersoft K3 dsp and have their truepower limiter working perfectly. I dare say they are basically unblowable
@@dougberry4674 May I ask you to share the value of the limiter? Thanks
nobody uses horns???
FunktionOne?
Void Acoustics?
Pure Groove?
Hell, even Danley is doing the same thing!
"nobody" as in, production companies / touring acts, not manufacturers
also, as in, not literally. not 0% of people in the world. heck, we use horns!
"everyone" uses dual 18s and line arrays. although, again, not literally 100% of all people. it's a figure of speech
who's the largest artist you can think of who uses horns on tour in the last 2 years? aside from funktion one house DJs, i'm talking *really large* artists. i have a hard time thinking of one frankly. eric prydz is the largest I can think of, on funktion one, but can you think of someone bigger? maybe not an EDM act?
Cerwin Vega did it first! They invented the folded horn subwoofer. All these other brands are just copies with some minor modifications and adjustments
@@djmannyleon9204 true
@@dougberry4674 eventually cerwin vega does have one
But none of the companies you've mentioned builds real Frontloaded horns. Most of them use Bandpasshorns or Hybrid enclosures. (In the case of danley obviously Tapped Horns)
DO THE FULL REVIEW PLSPLSPLSPLSPLSPLSPLSPLSPLS
Funktion one still the only manufacturer that still make horn loaded subs
They're definitely the largest manufacturer that still does today, but not the only one
Other examples: danley, Hennessy sound design, even JBL makes some install based horns still
@@dougberry4674that's interesting to know I'm thinking of getting rid of my martin audio system
U look so tired, make sure to get some rest aswell!
Wer have 6 towers of Martin Audio w8
16:34 its a discussion of the tech's "who have the buiggerst". You don't think that "Mien Dobbelsteen" 1) or Henk will give a fuck in the audience what kind of speaker, amp will be? The sound is for their good or bad. Point. 1)=ruclips.net/video/KLwPrEm9aUY/видео.html
Heres how to make this video shorter. They are fucking great, the end.
If you want to hear something way more fast go listen to a super sub from rat sound (not way faster but more punchy and a little bit faster)
M force is definitely something I'm excited to hear, but I expect it simply be approximately as fast, not faster
They are not as fast as horns unless they are built into horns. They are exactly the same in many ways as regular speakers. Look at it this way. If you add a lot of mass to a cone, you lower the FS. You then add a stronger motor to control it. But the M-Force motor mechanics are heavy compared to a voice coil with either an alu or titanium former.
They have their advantages in horns, just like traditional drivers do. The Funktion One BR132 is an awesome proper PA subwoofer with emphasis on "sub" as it reaches below 20 hz, but as with anything reflex that drops way into the 20's, it's plush, soft and slow. The F132 on the other hand, is one of, if not the fastest sub that extends below 25 hz. Part of the speed has to do with the way the cone couples with the air mass in conjunction with the directivity of the sound waves. For this reason, even a super fast motor like the M-Force, has some limitations to how fast the sound can be. This has to do with how the sound travels around the speaker baffle, how the pressure spreads out over the cone etc. And that you cannot change, and thus they will always sound different.
The Rat Supersub, is like everything else Dave Rat is involved with, the best in the world according to himself, and everything else is not as good. He's a clever guy and a good live producer for sure, but you should take what he says with a grain of salt. He does like to hear himself talk, on youtube and outside of youtube. Let's just say people find him to be a bit "much" within the industry.
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