Hi Could you create a video with binaural encoded 7.1.4 test tones? I mean just sound samples that move from channel to the other, so we could evaluate how effective the 7.1.4 Atmos to 2-channel binaural folding is? Thanks.
Unreal, Justin. I would say that as a demo this was even more effective than the first video. Somehow having the objects stay in place, while adding in the layers piecemeal, actually makes the localization effect really stark. The stereo mix just sounds so much flatter. Amateur question since I know nothing about this, for devices that will choose which version to play: is the atmos file made up of multiple parallel mixes, or will devices contain an algorithm that renders the new mix for whatever the listening format is? Not sure how much processing is involved once that's optimized, so I have no idea if that's something devices can do on board to save bandwidth vs downloading a larger file with parallel mixes.
Such a great question and there is a simple and a very complicated answer :) I am just going to go for it, as I am really deep into this research at the moment, and happy to share. I hope this is helpful. These videos are featuring a dedicated stereo Binaural headphone mix. The Binaural format is a standard 2 channel left and right delivery, which as I mentioned in the video, is designed for headphone listening. This means that for these videos, the processing to turn the ATMOS mix into a stereo file has already taken place, but it is also not scalable in the way ATMOS is designed. Now to your question more specifically. When I will deliver this album for instance, to a streaming service like TIDAL HIFI or Amazon HD (both currently do support ATMOS mixes), they will receive what is called a Dolby Digital Plus JOC file. This file type is a condensed version of my ATMOS master file, and contains a 5.1-bed track, and "object metadata". The objects which are discussed in this video are organized into 16 "clusters" in this format. This file type is quite exceptional. It is of course only readable by Dolby ATMOS-enabled devices, but those are growing in number, and now include iPhones, and Samsung Galaxy phones. When these devices are equipped with the software to "decode' this file format, they are then able to tell the device what to do. If the device is hooked up to 12 speakers, it will fold the 5.1-bed track to the appropriate channels, and then spread the 16 object clusters around accordingly. If the device sees only 2 speakers, it will fold down the 5.1 bed to a stereo (which has been done for decades now) and then also organizes the objects accordingly. So, the device is not actually accessing a different mix for stereo, 5.1, 7.1, 7.1.4, etc... but rather, it is decoding and organizing the audio according to what listening environment is available. There is an exception at the moment, and that is the AC4 IMS format. This is the dedicated stereo headphone mix that is a part of a Dolby ATMOS master delivery. Tidal for instance, will detect headphones vs. speakers, and should then switch to the AC4 IMS file when headphones are in use. This mix is using some form of Binaural technology, but I am not under the impression that it is the exact same as the dedicate Binaural mix. Now the final consideration is this. In the Dolby ATMOS mastering software, I can also create dedicated mixes (Stereo, Binaural, 5.1, 7.1 7.1.4 etc...) This is mainly because, in film delivery, they often want specific stems for post-production, but in music, it does mean that I can create the specific mixes. The advantage of this is that there are no surprises in playback. As you might tell from what I wrote above, the decoding technology has the ability to manipulate the sound, and so the final experience will likely not be identical to the one I am hearing as a mix/mastering engineer. This can be solved by delivering specific speaker-based mixes, but that comes with the serious complication of playback. For an audiophile setup, it is possible, but for the average listener, the ease of the Dolby Digital Plus JOC and AC4-IMS is unbeatable. Not only are the files a fraction of the size, but they automatically do some heavy lifting. If you however ever want to experience the "real deal" there is a format called Pure Audio Bu ray out of Munich, which is putting out hi-res ATMOS albums, and the Blu Ray includes these dedicated mixes, and the full spec ATMOS mix (the way I hear it in my production space). So...simple answer again, is that for 99% of users, it is only accessing 2 files - The immersive speaker file, which is then organized according to available channels, and the headphone playback mix, which is a specific fold-down designed for 2 channel headphone listening.
@@justingraysound That is amazing. Thanks for taking the time to write it out! So cool we're in a place where software optimization and hardware processing can come together to make this happen.
The track sounds great! Were all of your objects strictly in mono and is that generally the case for objects? Would there be a case where you might want to use a stereo track instead?
Great question. In this mix, there are mono and stereo objects. These are based on how the sources were recorded. It is a bit more complex to set up the routing for both mono and stereo objects, but with the appropriate pre-planning when designing the session, it provides a very flexible workflow. This mix also has a 7.1.2 bed, which includes the drum and guitar tracks.
I Have A Question about Dolby Atmos ? Do you have to ProTools HD OR ProTools Ultimate. Im under the impression that you have to have Protools Ultimate. I only have Logic Pro X Its not much youtube video of Atmos and Logic
You can use Logic, but only using the Dolby Panning Plug-In for Object panning (this is limiting, as 7.1.2 Beds are very valueable). Logic will have an update by the end of the year though
Hi
Could you create a video with binaural encoded 7.1.4 test tones? I mean just sound samples that move from channel to the other, so we could evaluate how effective the 7.1.4 Atmos to 2-channel binaural folding is?
Thanks.
HI thank for the contente i'm discovering the channel have maybe silly question can we render with the trial version or we must have the full version
Not sure. I am sure the trial works for rendering, but I have not experienced that first hand
Unreal, Justin. I would say that as a demo this was even more effective than the first video. Somehow having the objects stay in place, while adding in the layers piecemeal, actually makes the localization effect really stark. The stereo mix just sounds so much flatter. Amateur question since I know nothing about this, for devices that will choose which version to play: is the atmos file made up of multiple parallel mixes, or will devices contain an algorithm that renders the new mix for whatever the listening format is? Not sure how much processing is involved once that's optimized, so I have no idea if that's something devices can do on board to save bandwidth vs downloading a larger file with parallel mixes.
Such a great question and there is a simple and a very complicated answer :) I am just going to go for it, as I am really deep into this research at the moment, and happy to share. I hope this is helpful. These videos are featuring a dedicated stereo Binaural headphone mix. The Binaural format is a standard 2 channel left and right delivery, which as I mentioned in the video, is designed for headphone listening. This means that for these videos, the processing to turn the ATMOS mix into a stereo file has already taken place, but it is also not scalable in the way ATMOS is designed. Now to your question more specifically. When I will deliver this album for instance, to a streaming service like TIDAL HIFI or Amazon HD (both currently do support ATMOS mixes), they will receive what is called a Dolby Digital Plus JOC file. This file type is a condensed version of my ATMOS master file, and contains a 5.1-bed track, and "object metadata". The objects which are discussed in this video are organized into 16 "clusters" in this format. This file type is quite exceptional. It is of course only readable by Dolby ATMOS-enabled devices, but those are growing in number, and now include iPhones, and Samsung Galaxy phones. When these devices are equipped with the software to "decode' this file format, they are then able to tell the device what to do. If the device is hooked up to 12 speakers, it will fold the 5.1-bed track to the appropriate channels, and then spread the 16 object clusters around accordingly. If the device sees only 2 speakers, it will fold down the 5.1 bed to a stereo (which has been done for decades now) and then also organizes the objects accordingly. So, the device is not actually accessing a different mix for stereo, 5.1, 7.1, 7.1.4, etc... but rather, it is decoding and organizing the audio according to what listening environment is available. There is an exception at the moment, and that is the AC4 IMS format. This is the dedicated stereo headphone mix that is a part of a Dolby ATMOS master delivery. Tidal for instance, will detect headphones vs. speakers, and should then switch to the AC4 IMS file when headphones are in use. This mix is using some form of Binaural technology, but I am not under the impression that it is the exact same as the dedicate Binaural mix. Now the final consideration is this. In the Dolby ATMOS mastering software, I can also create dedicated mixes (Stereo, Binaural, 5.1, 7.1 7.1.4 etc...) This is mainly because, in film delivery, they often want specific stems for post-production, but in music, it does mean that I can create the specific mixes. The advantage of this is that there are no surprises in playback. As you might tell from what I wrote above, the decoding technology has the ability to manipulate the sound, and so the final experience will likely not be identical to the one I am hearing as a mix/mastering engineer. This can be solved by delivering specific speaker-based mixes, but that comes with the serious complication of playback. For an audiophile setup, it is possible, but for the average listener, the ease of the Dolby Digital Plus JOC and AC4-IMS is unbeatable. Not only are the files a fraction of the size, but they automatically do some heavy lifting. If you however ever want to experience the "real deal" there is a format called Pure Audio Bu ray out of Munich, which is putting out hi-res ATMOS albums, and the Blu Ray includes these dedicated mixes, and the full spec ATMOS mix (the way I hear it in my production space). So...simple answer again, is that for 99% of users, it is only accessing 2 files - The immersive speaker file, which is then organized according to available channels, and the headphone playback mix, which is a specific fold-down designed for 2 channel headphone listening.
@@justingraysound That is amazing. Thanks for taking the time to write it out! So cool we're in a place where software optimization and hardware processing can come together to make this happen.
The track sounds great! Were all of your objects strictly in mono and is that generally the case for objects? Would there be a case where you might want to use a stereo track instead?
Great question. In this mix, there are mono and stereo objects. These are based on how the sources were recorded. It is a bit more complex to set up the routing for both mono and stereo objects, but with the appropriate pre-planning when designing the session, it provides a very flexible workflow. This mix also has a 7.1.2 bed, which includes the drum and guitar tracks.
I Have A Question about Dolby Atmos ? Do you have to ProTools HD OR ProTools Ultimate. Im under the impression that you have to have Protools Ultimate. I only have Logic Pro X
Its not much youtube video of Atmos and Logic
You can use Logic, but only using the Dolby Panning Plug-In for Object panning (this is limiting, as 7.1.2 Beds are very valueable). Logic will have an update by the end of the year though
@@justingraysound thank you