Just note that I use the Cubase Pro Control Room Inserts to insert my EQ plugin for my headphones. If you don't have Cubase Pro, and you insert a Headphone EQ on your Master Out channel, don't forget to bypass it when exporting your mix ;) Watch this video: ruclips.net/video/AoVm1FO8AJI/видео.html Like Paul Third commented below, it is important to note that the low end boost required for the Harman curve may end up causing colouration/increased distortion in some cheaper dynamic headphones. Planar Magnetic headphones will tend to take this type of EQ low boost better than some Dynamic Headphones.
Chris, use actual (free) system-wide EQ software like EqualizerAPO, not only is it system-wide but you can decrease the main gain to attenuate foor boosted (low end) frequencies, you won't have to worry about distortion. I'm currently using the Sennheiser HD 6XX headphones with the LMG 0.6 target, with the gain being -12.3dB.
@Josh385moni I'm on FL Studio, I choose the input/output of FL to FL Studio ASIO and not my interface, I only change it to the interface when recording. That's likely the reason why it's not working for you.
@Josh385moni It's probably because you use ASIO or WASAPI as output, and it bypasses system mixer. Possibly you could use Crystal Mixer ASIO driver in other DAWs instead. Mentioned FL Studio ASIO driver "has the advantage of being fully multi-client on most machines. This will allow you to hear the audio from FL Studio and other applications (such as RUclips, SoundCloud etc) at the same time.".
Thanks for the shoutout Chris. Other channels would've just passed everything off as their own but always good to see other creators sharing the inspiration behind the video 🤜🤛 Also good to have more people talking about mixing to harman. It takes time to adjust but the only thing I think I didn't mention in mine, can't remember if I did, was to make people aware that the low end boost required for harman may end up causing colouration/increased distortion in some cheaper dynamic headphones, like say a lot of beyerdynamic. That's why I always reccomend planars like your MM-500 as they have cleaner low end and can handle the low end adjustment without essentially crapping out and distorting in the low end
@@PaulThird because of you I bought the hifi man Ananda nano and bought the topping e2x2 and apply the Harman curve and can opener and my mind just blow away best investment in my music production ever
Hey Paul, nice to meet you! You're welcome, I give credit to where credit is due :) Thanks for the reminder about the dynamic headphones and low boost. I heard that before, but forgot about it. I'll add a note in the video description. Thanks again, mate!
@@LightsOfSkadi definitely don't use Akg240 for mixing. Huge bass distortion stock and that's even with being pretty deficient in bass. Harman bass boost required will only further compound the issue. Nothing can fix this unfortunately. I would recommend mixing on different headphones
@@PaulThird I use ATH-M50x most of the time these days. I just made myself a Pro-Q3 preset of the Harman Curve for them and it's pretty fantastic. The biggest difference i've noticed is the massive volume reduction. I don't see a "preamp volume" on Pro-Q3 so i applied the prescribed setting to the output volume. I think the headphones sound great on their own and i can hear even more clearly with the curve applied to them, but are they actually any good for mixing? I have KRK Rokit 6's and my room is completely deadened with soundproof insulation, but because of apartment life the headphones are on 80% of the time or more. I've always they sounded great and i've gotten so used to them that i actually prefer mixing on them. The lack of sub is an obvious issue, but i use SPAN to check on that.
Sir thank you so much, am a music producer from Nigeria, I have learned a lot of things from you, watching your videos have changed my life greatly I will forever love and respect you sir, my mix now sound far better and bigger than what I used to hear in my studio some years ago, am grateful sir thank you so much you are more than a teacher to me... Am Mr C2 Christo Beat (C2 Mix) am very happy sir..
Thanks so much for this! I have been thinking a lot of this recently, and my conclusion was that, speakers and/or headphones out there does NOT have a flat response curve, not even the expensive ones, so why mix on a flat curve that does not exists other in maybe some super expensive studios? So this was such a relief to hear! However, I do believe checking you mix with a flat curve once in a while is good because it can tell you something about muddiness in you mix. That being said, as long as you have descent headphones, I think reference tracks are by far the best way to get close to a sound you want.
Hello guys, Thanks for helping thousands and thousands mix engineers who are willing to improve their headphones mixing. Some of us just don't have a treated room to relay on speakers, and this is so helpful! HUGE THANKS. Just a quick question, If I got this correct, I need to put a set up EQ on the Master track and then when I finish the project, I need to turn it off and then export? Thanks.
@@marekvoosen I use this one too. It’s very simple and easy to use. Only thing I wish was built it was some crosstalk. But easy to handle in a separate plugin. Hornets VHS plug-in could be a good cheap alternative for many people. I’m not sure how good it is, but it does the same thing Morphit does along with the cross feed and Room emulation.
I can see why this would work well too Chris. Guys using a flatter response would end up either over or under compensating frequencies than hearing the actual targeted frequency curve within their headphones. This is why it would translate well. Thanks for the tip, I’m going to try it for myself too. Hope you are doing well. Sincerely, Robert.
I discovered Oratory 1990 several years back which is very similar to the Harman curves and applied the EQ curve for my Sennheiser HD650s and they made my mixes translate FAR BETTER. I always knew those cans were lacking in the low end so even before applying the EQ i knew it would make them more accurate. I also use those cans for creating my guitar tones with Helix and they translate VERY well at any venue i play at. These curves are not intended to make your headphones “sound better” but to make them more accurate based on what is generally acceptable for average listeners and how music is mastered for the last 30 yrs. The point is to make your mixes translate better by giving you a more accurate representation of whats being played through them and compensate for inadequacies in whatever headphones youre using.
i've been doing this for a while and i also love it. i'm using a uad apollo and send all my tracks in console to one of the aux busses and then send that to the headphones. i can then drop a couple of precision channel plugins on that aux and eq there, so it's global. i did have to check the curves with an eq analyser so they matched the target, as the shelves had a slightly different Q values, similar to the Pro-Q. it makes a huge difference and is definitely worth doing, even with expensive headphones!
That's the reason I love Sony 7506, the frequency response was very close to harman curve, the tone of it just like my speaker which with good room treatment and calibration.
funny they aren''t even that expensive too lol, i prefer cheap AGK semi open back headphones over a lot of other expensive brands. i'm on my 2nd pair now.
For me, the highs of the 7506s are a bit too harsh. Thats why I bought Reference some years ago. But now that I know there's a free alternative, I could save money in the future. ;-)
Sony's are good headphones for mixing if one becomes familiar to their sound (I also mix on the 7506 and i like them better from a pair of more expensive headphones i have), and get used to their sound. They don't only have very good sound staging. But they do "the trick " at least for me, with some help from monitors speakers etc.
@@Trophonius yea, so true, learn the gear was the most important process! So I found out learning the “flat” curve provide a huge benefit in my work flow. I got three different space with three different monitor , Adam Neumann ATC, they sounds different, but overall response sounds identical after all the treatment. No matter I work in anyone of the space, I can use the same perspective on sound judging! But checking on different headphone was needed for sure~
Yesss🙌🏾… I also stumbled upon this information some months back and it definitely changed the way I hear using my HD 650 and MM 500 headphones. It’s like the headphones gain depth and sound stage! I’m using a RME DAC that has an onboard EQ which allows me to have presets for different headphones and allows the curve to be applied in and out of my DAW.
@Kane_62There is a room EQ button on the monitor outputs in totalmix. It gives you 10 bands of parametric EQ. There are some (insignificant) limits on the settings (q). You can adjust for that in Auto EQ and it will compensate and optimize for you.
the answer is simple for me, i try it out with already a perfect Mix , from Mick Guzauski ( Daft Punk - The Game of love) I put the frequencies on My RME Totalmix HP Section, and listen with on , and off, and i must say this is awesome. Thanks Chris . ...I mixed a song, and after i listen over my focals speakers, and it sounds more Punchy .....love it ....i will give this a try in the next couple weeks.
Cool. Gonna try this out, after seeing both you and Paul Third suggest it. I bought a pair of Sennheiser HD560S earlier this year, (naively) thinking that having flatter headphones would help me achieve better translation.... Well, that was an education in of itself, and I haven't mixed on them since. Looking forward to seeing if applying the Harman curve with tweaks will help make them useful to me in a mixing context. Thanks much for going through the steps to make it clear how much effort it will take to set it up the curve properly.
I really love your take on all things musical .. not over the top just like a mate who is really good at what he does ... and sharing the wealth of knowledge he has found ... I never stop learning stuff (@73 ..which can be a little hard at times ) from your vids .. many thanks for your insights and the way you present them ... I have, great and not so great HP, plus monitors and use them all for my mixes ... this bit of knowledge may help with future projects 👍 Take care and thanks for the help ...
Interesting topic, would you mind sharing where you found the filter value to convert from the custom parametric EQ to fabfilter pro q 3? So i can better understand why and how it needs to be changed.
For me using two pair of headphones is the best way. Generaly I am mixing on Sennenheiser 650HD - but i switch to cheaper AT m40x too check high end harshness because the 650 are a bit to forgiving. The AT are perfect for this.
I do the same. For mixing I have a pair of Bayerdynamic DT990 Pro, which have a crystal clear sound. But then I also use a pair of Sennheiser HD200Pro, which are pretty cheap and sound way more HiFi, especially with a lot of low end boost. More the once I had a low end which sounded fine on the DT990 because they are so clear, but the HD200 revealed that it was actually too muddy and loud. Testing on several consumer speakers showed that most of them would have the low end problems.
Nice surprise to see @Mixyap - one of the leading Turkish mix channel referenced here. Emrah Celik and Paul also highly recommend using an external headphone-amp for mixing. I got the most impressive improvement in sound after adding an external HA in my set-up, felt like it took blanket off the speakers.
Thanks for the video! Very interesting info. Questions: How did you learn that when using the Pro-Q3 that you would need to multiply the Q values by 1.41, and how did you learn that the Pro-Q3 is using biquad filters? Also, what are others using instead of biquad filters? Do you know if the Pro-Q4 uses the same biquad filters? Thanks again! Trying this now.
They did a study and found that the audioengineers actually prefer the OG harman curve instead of the new one. It’s not supposed to be flat, it’s supposed to be the average preference of a larger group of people. Which is why you get a slight bass boost like you get a boost on the speakers at the bottom end _in a room_. Flat headphones don’t sound natural, harman curve tuned headphones do. If you mix to harman curve, it will likely translate good on many systems because harman resembles the eq choice the majority prefers.
Thanks for providing a starting point into this whole chapter. I am not too knowledgable on these matters, but did manage to find an enthousiast's website where he tests lower end headphones on a self-built testing system and adapts some of them with cheap material. For the hardcore, there will always be options :D But always looking to improve, with babysteps if needed. I'd rather mix on headphones than monitors and I can't really see myself prepping my living space for mixing to the extent that monitors would be better for me.
Thanks Chris, great video. Bummed about missing mix feedback tomorrow but I'm in Tampa so we will be losing power tonight. I'll be ready for the next one😀
Most headphone designers use the Harmon curve when developing their headphones to tune them as close as possible to that curve. So what you really want is a good headphone that closely matches the harmon curve. To my ears, the best matching headphones are ones like the Hifiman Susvara, Audezee CRBN2 electro stat, Raal Acoustic Magnus, and if you want the ultimate headphone experience currently available on planet Earth, get the Hifiman Shangri La Sr.
Great video, great review. I use my beats pro headphones and the curve looks really great. maybe a lilttle adjustment on the 5k fc. but nothing more for my ears. Anyway thanks again Chris.
@5:03 . . . those filter settings are not really to "play around with the settings" (to adjust the sound), they are to better inform the algorithm as to the limits of the EQ you are using . . . so for example if the EQ you are using only allows cuts and boosts of 6dB then the algorithm would like to know that, or if the EQ you are using has a maximum Q factor of 4 for bell curves then - again - this knowledge will better help it adjust its settings to your particular EQ. For example ProQ3's Q factor goes up to 40 (note: *1.41 =56), Logic's built in EQ goes even further, up to 100, whereas Izotope's EQ only goes up to a Q factor of 12. Letting AutoEQ know this helps it achieve what it needs to do. Simply put, rather than adjust the sound, these settings are . . . "Hey AutoEQ, my EQ can boost by this much, it's Q can go this high, it's shelves stop at 15Khz" (etc)
@@dwaynedelario Yes, whoops ! My mistake, you're right translating from ProQ3 into the real word (other EQs) you would take ProQ3's Q factor and divide it by 1.414 (√2) . . . or multiply it by 0.707 (sin(45°)). So yeah, like you say, for the maximum Q factor (for ProQ3 filter settings in AutoEQ) you would use 28.3. By the way, when setting these filter settings, you don't have to be 'honest', you don't have to let AutoEq know the whole truth, you may not like the sound of very narrow Q factors or big boosts on a particular EQ you're using, so rather than reveal to AutoEQ (through the filter settings) that your EQ can boost up to 96dB, you can tell AutoEQ that the maximum boost is 24dB . . . in that sense the filter settings become limits that you don't want AutoEQ to go beyond, you only want it to use 24dB (at most) of that 96dB range . . . (but of course, you still need to keep these choices within the EQ's actual ranges, so you can't tell AutoEQ that the max boost is 200dB when in reality it's only 96dB, but you can tell AutoEQ it's 12dB) . . . of course all this will still produce the same result, but AutoEQ will have to adjust its approach to stay within your filter settings.
Thanks for the video. This is why I use ToneBoosters Morphit. It has it all integrated. Frequency curve adjustment for the headphones and different listening simulations from Harman Curves to other headphones and speakers. Total game changer 💯
I use the Sennheiser HD650 headphones. They have a great stereo image representation. They work well with TB Morphit. Also, I’m using Ayaic’s Ceilings Of Sound Pro on the master with a brown noise -4,5 dB curve to check and adjust the frequency response. Try it for yourself
Hey’o! I’ve been mixing with a Razer Haptic feedback headphone and a Buttkicker that’s primarily used for racing sims/video games. It’s immensely helped with my sub/low end mixes. Because I know how they respond to other mixes and I can translate that information to get a strong balance.
good to have as additional tool. Stil... i would go for flat mainly to be more precise specially in the harsh region 3 k... and also... this all bekomes reenforced if you use good references and your ears know how good mixes sound in any phone, setting or speaker you use. Thanks😊
"According to statist survey, 87 percent of the respondents use their headphones to listen to music. In fact in the workplace, 93% reported wearing headphones to listen to music. You have more and more engineers now mixing on things like air pods and a quick test on monitors which i find interesting."
If the Harmann Curve is meant to replicate the sound of high quality speakers in a studio room, but through headphones, would this mean that using a room sim plugin like Waves NX and then Sonarworks after to flatten my headphones be a similar effect? Waves has EQ correction using Harmann Curve also, my headphones are just not listed on it. Otherwise I would use that instead. Would I be better off using headphones on their EQ list?
Hi Chris, thanks for clearing the location (CB Control Room) where to put the dedicated EQ down below. Would have been nice if you used the CB EQ instead of the fab 😉
Using Neumann NDH 30's. I A/B'd the sample music on the website and I honestly don't like how bright the EQ correction sounds. And I believe I am losing some detail in the mids as well.. It sounds a bit scooped. I can how ever use this as an A/B tool to get a different perspective on my mixes. Maybe even lower the percentage of the "gain scale" on the Pro-Q to around 30% to 50%, so that the EQ curve being applied is more subtle. Great video nonetheless!
Well nice point of view here, even tho i prefer the vsx plugin with slate headphones, thst in this case its just a good emulation of pro studios and that flat the bass frequencies and help maintain it in place👌🏽
Thanks for this, my friend! For a long time I've been using Sonarworks Reference 4 (didn't you review this), along with Blue Cat Audio Re-Head (this specifically for simulating studio monitor placement), and have been quite satisfied. This, however, does sound promising!
I'm a big believer in mixing in headphones as well; for me the Valhalla 2 headphone amp was a GAME CHANGER x 10; it's like hearing in 8k resolution. I could INSTANTLY hear different frequencies and whether they are the problem of not, I can hear a difference of 1 db of EQ. Problem is, if I wanted to apply this EQ curve, I don't think it would be correct for what the amp does to the frequency response of the headphones natural state.
looks sweet but idk how that would help tbh. nor do I understand how flattening headphone response would. Adjustments for a room make sense where it’s all bouncing around or stacking up but yeah.. guess I’m hoping you’ll sell me on it cuz it seems noice lol
Thanks so much Chris, i've tried the calibration on my new track and difference is Night/Day 😃. Extremely grateful for sharing this tip and you have another follower. Any recommendation for headphones amp? Cheers
Glad you like this one. Note that it takes time to adjust, so be in no rush. For headphone amps, that's my next step, I still use my audio interface for now.
I've been using dsound realphones for a while, and it actually have a harman curve for evepy headphone profile, not to mention a ton of other options. Now gonna use this to check my mixes alongisde all other environments, thanks
ok, i tried this Harman Curve out. I've been mixing and listening to a lot of music. The only way I can explain it, is that kinda sounds like you are listening to really good studio monitors.
Ok, I thought it would be an awesome idea to have this Harman curve, but I tried it on the NDH-30 and it sounded TOO BRIGHT and , per consequence (probably), it lost the mids body. They are soft on the highs and I kinda like the way it is. The only thing I "correct" in my NDH-30 are the subs (I like it subby/fat, not balanced), +7/9dB. Since I did this sub eq move, my low-end was everytime on point. *chef-kiss* (or pretty close to it)
I have those cans and I find them to be amazing straight out the box. Didn’t like the sound ID curve either. When I got my RME ADI 2 with hi power output - holy shit
@@AirArtStudiosOfficial I think I have some low frequency lost in my ears lol cause everything I listen I prefer with more low-end than the default. I tried mixing with the default curve of the NDH-30 but my subs wasn't the way I was listening (because I wasn't listening it enough to judge). It was there, but not enough for my ears. Did you try this Harman Curve in your NDH-30?
From my current understanding, we might see it like this: a "flat" audio spectrum put into a real room will be changed due to reflections and other room effects (e.g. increases in low frequencies). When using room simulation plugins like dearvr mix or dsoniq's realphones, these spectral changes are created by their emulations of reflections and binaural crossfeeds. When we don't emulate the room and want a similar acoustic impression with our headphones (with or without a simple crossfeed tool like can opener), we need to EQ. The Harmann curve might not be the optimal target or be not what a good room simulation would produce, but it is -coincidently?- much closer to it than a flat target curve, and therefore what we hear (might) translate better to speaker systems.🤓 Nevertheless, it always relevant how the producer/mixer enjoys his/her music and how he/she "learns" the reference tracks...😅
Thanks Chris! Auto EQ is a great free tool. I’m wondering if you have tried to compensate for the dip over 10k on the mm500’s? Also do know how to make/adjust your own target curve? cheers
YOOOO.... I always have loved mixing on Sony MDR-7506, even though I have more expensive headphones I have gone back to them because they are the best.... I see why now... I looked them up on autoeq, the curve is SO CLOSE to the harman curve that you barely have to change anything... I don't think I need to, I wonder how much impact my headphone amp has on the output
The Harman curve is for the listener, not the mix engineer, in my opinion. I want a flat reference headphone so I know exactly what's coming out of my stereo bus. We want our monitors flat and honest, right? Why should it be any different for headphones? No headphone is flat out of the box. You listen to your mix through whatever EQ curve your headphones possess. Further changing that EQ curve to match the Harman curve further muddies the mix, in my opinion. I've thought about this a lot lately. I watched the same video you did about the Harman idea. It made sense at the time. But upon further contemplation, I think it's actually wrong. What's coming out of the stereo bus is "your mix." I want to hear it exactly as it sounds. I use SoundID to flatten the response of my headphones so I know I can hear what's really going on. The Harman curve is anything but neutral.
Thanks for sharing your opinion on this. Like I said in my video, probably not made for everyone, but it's free to give it a shot, which it looks like you did, and you didn't like it. So I can't argue with this :) For me, it's all about translation on other systems, and a flat EQ curve on headphones sounds too dull for me, and never ended up with good translation, but that's my experience, it's definately not a one size fits all. Thanks for watching, my friend!
The Harman Curve is not designed specifically for listeners; moreover, all target curves are developed using a similar approach. What SoundID shows in the app is their compensated in-house target curve. Just like the Harman, Free Field, Diffuse Field, IEF, and all other existing target curves, these are created by measuring speakers with a rig that simulates a human head and ears. The resulting measurements are then used as a target for headphones (using the same rig to measure the headphones). For example, Sean Olive used a GRAS rig in his research. All measurements done with a binaural head don’t appear flat because such rigs illustrate how sound interacts with the human body, head, and ears, which is why the results don’t look flat. Compensated curves essentially account for the interaction of sound waves with the human body and auditory system to make the response appear flat. If you look at different raw target curves made with such rigs, you will notice that the general shape is very similar, such as a significant boost between 2-6 kHz, because that’s how our ears distort the sound they hear. You’ve likely heard that humans are more sensitive to certain frequencies. Where the Harman Curve differs from curves like Free Field or Diffuse Field is that in Harman research, the target curve is tested on both untrained and trained listeners. If I remember correctly, Sonarworks’ target curve is based on personal preference to finalize it (similar to Harman’s process with listeners verifying the sound of the target curve), but because Sonarworks hasn’t disclosed their entire process, I might be wrong. The reason Sonarworks doesn’t show an uncompensated graph is probably because it would make it very easy to use a tool like Pro-Q to replicate their EQ settings for different headphones, whereas Harman or Diffuse Field curves are essentially open-source in this context. But I’m speculating; I don’t know the real reason why Sonarworks doesn’t show an uncompensated target curve. The reason we have several different curves, each with certain variations, is that physical factors-such as how headphones interact with our ears in real life-introduce another level of complexity to the measurements. Personal preference also comes into play, and target curves are adjusted to have more or less high-end and low-end, while keeping the overall shape of the curve. Unlike SoundID, which does not disclose how they arrived at their target curve, Harman research is openly accessible to everyone, and anyone can review the results of decades of research conducted by Sean Olive. In contrast, with other curves, we have to rely on the creators' claims that they know better (essentially a “trust me, bro” type of situation). Harman is not supposed to be perfect (at least not yet), but in practice, it eliminates the need for complex EQ adjustments. Is there too much high-end? A simple high shelf can adjust the treble. Want a bit less low-end? Again, a low shelf can solve it. With headphones that don’t follow any target curve (like the LCD-X, for example), you first have to measure the headphones and then create a complex EQ, which can involve more than 10 EQ points to get the headphones to match a specific curve. I like SoundID actually, it's totally valid target curve, it's just that it is not a polar opposite of how Sean Olive developed Harman Target. It's all variations on the same idea kind of.
your missing the point, Chris stated his mixes are now translating much better, why do you think everyone does the car stereo test and then realise their mix is out of what, Studio monitors can be too flat and may be a challenge to mix properly if you want to hear a certain soundscape. My final mixes and tests are done on a logitec 3 way system with sub and now my mixes translate far better than ever. I dont need to go to the car anymore.
What is soundid? I just got Neumann headphones because I’ve heard they are very neutral and is like mixing on Neumann monitors is a completely neutral room.
Hello Selim. You can do the same method more efficiently with apo eq for windows and aunbandeq on mac. I use the same method and I recommend it very successfully.
Could you do a second video that goes into more depth with what your experience has been switching to the Harmon curve, what you listen for, how the experience might be different than using flat curve? Those sorts of things. This is a great video and I want to switch to using the Harmon curve, and so looking for any and all tips.
The Harman target curve is flat. The reason it appears not flat is because it's created with measurement rigs like G.R.A.S. that simulate human hearing, placed on a dummy head. You’ve probably heard of binaural recordings done with microphones shaped like a human head-this is essentially the same concept. In measurements like this, the natural interaction of sound with the human body, head, and hearing system is captured, allowing us to see how "flat" sound is altered. Sean Olive used a G.R.A.S. measurement rig to measure a set of flat speakers in a treated room. This measurement was then used as a reference for creating the Harman target curve. The curve was tested with both trained and untrained listeners to verify it. There is a certain level of complexity when it comes to precisely measuring headphones, as it's hard to measure how headphones interact with humans. The closest tools we have for this are rigs like G.R.A.S. and B&K. Other curves, like Diffuse Field and Free Field, are created in a similar manner. Sonarworks’ SoundID also used a similar approach to Harman to generate their own target curve. While there are other third-party target curves, they all follow the same general shape. The main differences are in the amount of low-end and high-end, though the overall methodology is similar, and their shapes are more alike than different. The reason these target curves don’t look flat is that they show how human hearing changes the sound. That’s why there’s a compensation mechanism that removes the alterations caused by human hearing, which results in a flat line. For example, SoundID shows a compensated target curve, but their raw target curve is actually quite close to Harman (once you reverse-engineer it). The thing is, humans figured out how to properly measure speakers, but when it comes to headphones, we’re still working on it. That’s what Harman research is about-Sean Olive is trying to figure out how to properly measure headphones and tune them for a flat sound. So, in short, the Harman target curve is flat, or at least aims to be. It may be confusing at first, but this strange, curved frequency response is just a byproduct of the measurement system. It’s actually flat! Because many headphones have strange frequency response that doesn't comply with any targets, to properly tune your headphones, you will need to measure your specific set of headphones. Most people cannot do that (rigs are expensive), and that's why a lot of people use measurements done by somebody else. There will be a certain degree of error, and you might have too much high end, or not enough low end after you EQ your headphones, but that's sadly something we have to accept at the moment.
@@gkmixing Wow, that is very helpful, and thank you for taking the time to explains this. I watched quite a few of these Harmon explanations over the last few years, including Paul Third's but didn't understand what you just explained. That actually makes a ton of sense. Essentially the Harmon curve is trying to flatten out the frequency response by "fixing" or flattening out the changes to the sound our ears make, so we are actually hearing what flat sounds like, and not a colored version of flat. Very cool! I also appreciate your point that most of these Harmon like curves are basically about the same and we just need to tune it to what we like. I was a bit stressed about just how many options there are, but it's making more sense now. Again, thank you!
@@phadrus no problem! I too was very confused, so I'm trying to help out as much as I can, as it's a complex topic. : ) One correction, it's not really about "fixing" exactly, but Harman Target just shows that if you measure "flat" sound with a specific tool like G.R.A.S. rig, a flat frequency response will look a certain way (the shape of Harman Target), it's all strange looking, because that's how flat looks like through measurement tool like G.R.A.S. It is made in such a way to simulate how humans really hear the sound, it's not 100% accurate, but it's the best we've got. Basically, following the Harman Target will produce headphones with flat frequency response, it will just look weird on a graph. Compensation I talked about is kind of just visual thing to show Harman Target as a flat line, but that's not that important really. For example, on AutoEQ website, the closer RAW frequency response of headphones to a blue line is (blue line representing Harman Target), the flatter such headphones are. :) But there is a caveat with all this. Measurement tools are not perfect, that's why over the years Harman target was slightly adjusted, and it might be adjusted in the future. So, use it as a starting point, and don't be afraid to adjust it. :)
Thanks for your input, and the explanation of headphone measurements, and graphic curves, this is good stuff! Not everyone agrees on the Harman Curve being "Flat" per say, not in the music mixing world anyways, that's probably why it's always evolving. What I know is that it's trying to emulate the flat sound of high quality speakers in a controlled room environment, but like you said, there's a certain degree of error. Same for the Sound ID target, is it really "Flat"? What I know is that it sounds "Duller" than the Harman curve even if it not worlds apart from Harman. With that said, you probably know more about all of this than me :-) What I know is that my mixes translate better on most systems when I use the Harman Curves on my Headphones, whether this curve is "Flat" or not. Thanks again for your input, mate!
@phadrus The best advice I can give you right now, is to take the time to listen to lots of reference music tracks using this curve before you start mixing with it. I would give the same advice if you were buying a new set of studio monitors, get to know them well before mixing with them :)
Thanks Chris. Worth a try. I only have experience with AKG K271, K240, K141, Koss 444+ and now even Vic Firth SIH2 (for recording drums). Generally AKG headphones have a high resolution in the mids and highs but are a bit attenuated in the bass. I have done several mixings with AKG and it has worked fine. The Koss have the rumour of being flat. With that though comes a honkiness which actually is not pleasing to the ear at all. Someone any tip on which phones works out best for mixing through time??? Best wishes from Sweden 🇸🇪.
@@mixdownonline That makes sense. It's such a personal and intimate thing, the headphone environment. Didn't Andrew Schepps say he preferred to mix on the bass-heavy Sony MDR-7506 ... or am I misquoting him? In any event, it's how it translates that matters. Cheers for the quick response! 🙂
Thanks a lot Chris, very interesting video as usual. I guess the same EQ settings should be applied on the software I listen to music with outside of Cubase (Foobar in my case), so that I get used to this "corrected" listening?
@Frikoppie-q2v If you uncheck all devices in Additional, it is applied over all devices. Furthermore, it can happen that you need to go to Actions>... Configurator again (and restart) to install the APO filter again to make the app work.
I think Tone boosters Morphit with Can opener studio is pretty decent. I would be interested if someone could compare to their studio monitors for comparison..and see if its anywhere near...its ok having these studio references, but the engineer knows his room and would adjust accordingly.......
hey man, I followed this with my beyerdynamic dt 880 pro and my sennheiser hd 650. First of all, I noted a big difference in volumes. And about the EQ with the beyerdynamic, with the high end EQ that takes the volume down with a high shelf to -12.4 and it doesn't recover with a bell in the same frequency rate I exaggeratedly lost the high end..
Chris, love your channel. Great videos and information. Im thinking of getting the Audeze LCD X’s. Ive never tried a pair before. Is there really that much of a difference between them and say Sennheiser 600’s or Hifiman Sundaras or Beyerdynamics 880 pros? Whats your opinion? Thanks man!
I have a good friend that mastered a ton of music only using LCD X's, big name latin artists. He moved on to PMC monitors but for several years he was only using those headphones. I only listened to them once, they sound good, but they are very heavy (weight). I personally use Neumann NDH 30. I like how they sound, doesn't sound hyped. Pretty neutral in my opinion. When something is not mixed well or not recorded well, it is very apparent. The previous set of headphones I had were the DT 1990's. I like the NDH 30's better, they are more detailed, more revealing. Definitely try out multiple headphones if you can because everyone has a different taste.
i dont have any monitors, and the best headphones i have is samson sr850. id love to know what others who own these headphones think of the sound on them using this, because i must admit it's kind of underwhelming and it just sounds muddy to me. im aware these have a some extra high end, but man does it sound wrong. for the record i used equalizerAPO and didnt change any settings after selecting that option on the website
Hello. Thank you for this! How did you get the number 1.41? Would like to understand in depth with this. Also should the Pro Q3 be 'Linear Phase' and not 'Zero Latency'...? Thanks
This is why I like the new Sennheiser 490 Pros, close enough to a flat response stock without a blown out bass end. Adding all of those bass frequencies back in just isn’t necessary because 30-35hz and below is taken out in Mastering anyway.
It's so nice :D I put a Fruity Convolver into FL Studio which has the harman response So it's maybe more accurate and I don't need to put in EQ settings manually. My Sony WH-1000XM4 aren't quite the best for mixing (the bass is way too loud and at 2kHz it's quiet) so this should help :D
Interesting video thanks. Not sure I would trust it though, I'm going to buy the Sony MDR-M1 headphones and be done with it, I still A/B with my monitors.
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Just note that I use the Cubase Pro Control Room Inserts to insert my EQ plugin for my headphones. If you don't have Cubase Pro, and you insert a Headphone EQ on your Master Out channel, don't forget to bypass it when exporting your mix ;)
Watch this video: ruclips.net/video/AoVm1FO8AJI/видео.html
Like Paul Third commented below, it is important to note that the low end boost required for the Harman curve may end up causing colouration/increased distortion in some cheaper dynamic headphones. Planar Magnetic headphones will tend to take this type of EQ low boost better than some Dynamic Headphones.
I was about to ask where you insert the EQ, Control Room Inserts was the expected answer 🙂
Chris, use actual (free) system-wide EQ software like EqualizerAPO, not only is it system-wide but you can decrease the main gain to attenuate foor boosted (low end) frequencies, you won't have to worry about distortion. I'm currently using the Sennheiser HD 6XX headphones with the LMG 0.6 target, with the gain being -12.3dB.
@Josh385moni I'm on FL Studio, I choose the input/output of FL to FL Studio ASIO and not my interface, I only change it to the interface when recording. That's likely the reason why it's not working for you.
@Josh385moni It's probably because you use ASIO or WASAPI as output, and it bypasses system mixer. Possibly you could use Crystal Mixer ASIO driver in other DAWs instead.
Mentioned FL Studio ASIO driver "has the advantage of being fully multi-client on most machines. This will allow you to hear the audio from FL Studio and other applications (such as RUclips, SoundCloud etc) at the same time.".
Why bypass it if i mixed with that setting? if i bypass it wont it be sounding as good as mixed with that setting?
Thanks for the shoutout Chris. Other channels would've just passed everything off as their own but always good to see other creators sharing the inspiration behind the video 🤜🤛
Also good to have more people talking about mixing to harman. It takes time to adjust but the only thing I think I didn't mention in mine, can't remember if I did, was to make people aware that the low end boost required for harman may end up causing colouration/increased distortion in some cheaper dynamic headphones, like say a lot of beyerdynamic. That's why I always reccomend planars like your MM-500 as they have cleaner low end and can handle the low end adjustment without essentially crapping out and distorting in the low end
@@PaulThird because of you I bought the hifi man Ananda nano and bought the topping e2x2 and apply the Harman curve and can opener and my mind just blow away best investment in my music production ever
Hey Paul, nice to meet you! You're welcome, I give credit to where credit is due :)
Thanks for the reminder about the dynamic headphones and low boost. I heard that before, but forgot about it. I'll add a note in the video description. Thanks again, mate!
What about AKG240? Is this still a good way?
@@LightsOfSkadi definitely don't use Akg240 for mixing. Huge bass distortion stock and that's even with being pretty deficient in bass. Harman bass boost required will only further compound the issue.
Nothing can fix this unfortunately. I would recommend mixing on different headphones
@@PaulThird I use ATH-M50x most of the time these days. I just made myself a Pro-Q3 preset of the Harman Curve for them and it's pretty fantastic. The biggest difference i've noticed is the massive volume reduction. I don't see a "preamp volume" on Pro-Q3 so i applied the prescribed setting to the output volume. I think the headphones sound great on their own and i can hear even more clearly with the curve applied to them, but are they actually any good for mixing?
I have KRK Rokit 6's and my room is completely deadened with soundproof insulation, but because of apartment life the headphones are on 80% of the time or more. I've always they sounded great and i've gotten so used to them that i actually prefer mixing on them. The lack of sub is an obvious issue, but i use SPAN to check on that.
Sir thank you so much, am a music producer from Nigeria, I have learned a lot of things from you, watching your videos have changed my life greatly I will forever love and respect you sir, my mix now sound far better and bigger than what I used to hear in my studio some years ago, am grateful sir thank you so much you are more than a teacher to me... Am Mr C2 Christo Beat (C2 Mix) am very happy sir..
This is the kind of tutorial that has immediate results! Thanks so much for the info!
Glad it was helpful!
I tried it out straight away with my Neumann NDH 30! Fantastic result! The mix was immediately much more balanced! Thx!!!! 🎉🎉🎉
Thanks so much for this! I have been thinking a lot of this recently, and my conclusion was that, speakers and/or headphones out there does NOT have a flat response curve, not even the expensive ones, so why mix on a flat curve that does not exists other in maybe some super expensive studios? So this was such a relief to hear! However, I do believe checking you mix with a flat curve once in a while is good because it can tell you something about muddiness in you mix. That being said, as long as you have descent headphones, I think reference tracks are by far the best way to get close to a sound you want.
Hello guys,
Thanks for helping thousands and thousands mix engineers who are willing to improve their headphones mixing. Some of us just don't have a treated room to relay on speakers, and this is so helpful! HUGE THANKS.
Just a quick question, If I got this correct, I need to put a set up EQ on the Master track and then when I finish the project, I need to turn it off and then export? Thanks.
loooool
I use ToneBoosters Morphit which also uses the Harman curve, but does it for me and many headphones. And there are many more options. Great plugin
Never heard of this one, thanks for the tip!
@@marekvoosen I use this one too. It’s very simple and easy to use. Only thing I wish was built it was some crosstalk. But easy to handle in a separate plugin. Hornets VHS plug-in could be a good cheap alternative for many people. I’m not sure how good it is, but it does the same thing Morphit does along with the cross feed and Room emulation.
this is what I use too. it supports a staggering amount of headphones, even IEMs and earbuds. not too expensive either
I use Morphit coupled with Goodhertz CanOpener for crosstalk emulation.
@@marekvoosen nice!
I can see why this would work well too Chris. Guys using a flatter response would end up either over or under compensating frequencies than hearing the actual targeted frequency curve within their headphones. This is why it would translate well. Thanks for the tip, I’m going to try it for myself too. Hope you are doing well. Sincerely, Robert.
Chris you're a legend. Just checked this on two sets of headphones that I use and it blew my mind.
Glad you like this one :)
I discovered Oratory 1990 several years back which is very similar to the Harman curves and applied the EQ curve for my Sennheiser HD650s and they made my mixes translate FAR BETTER. I always knew those cans were lacking in the low end so even before applying the EQ i knew it would make them more accurate. I also use those cans for creating my guitar tones with Helix and they translate VERY well at any venue i play at.
These curves are not intended to make your headphones “sound better” but to make them more accurate based on what is generally acceptable for average listeners and how music is mastered for the last 30 yrs. The point is to make your mixes translate better by giving you a more accurate representation of whats being played through them and compensate for inadequacies in whatever headphones youre using.
i've been doing this for a while and i also love it. i'm using a uad apollo and send all my tracks in console to one of the aux busses and then send that to the headphones. i can then drop a couple of precision channel plugins on that aux and eq there, so it's global. i did have to check the curves with an eq analyser so they matched the target, as the shelves had a slightly different Q values, similar to the Pro-Q. it makes a huge difference and is definitely worth doing, even with expensive headphones!
That's the reason I love Sony 7506, the frequency response was very close to harman curve, the tone of it just like my speaker which with good room treatment and calibration.
funny they aren''t even that expensive too lol, i prefer cheap AGK semi open back headphones over a lot of other expensive brands. i'm on my 2nd pair now.
@@Maplefoxx-vl2ew yea, true. Expensive not mean High Fidelity.
Besides to 7506, AKG K361 was great too👍🏼
For me, the highs of the 7506s are a bit too harsh. Thats why I bought Reference some years ago. But now that I know there's a free alternative, I could save money in the future. ;-)
Sony's are good headphones for mixing if one becomes familiar to their sound (I also mix on the 7506 and i like them better from a pair of more expensive headphones i have), and get used to their sound. They don't only have very good sound staging. But they do "the trick " at least for me, with some help from monitors speakers etc.
@@Trophonius yea, so true, learn the gear was the most important process!
So I found out learning the “flat” curve provide a huge benefit in my work flow. I got three different space with three different monitor , Adam Neumann ATC, they sounds different, but overall response sounds identical after all the treatment. No matter I work in anyone of the space, I can use the same perspective on sound judging! But checking on different headphone was needed for sure~
Yesss🙌🏾… I also stumbled upon this information some months back and it definitely changed the way I hear using my HD 650 and MM 500 headphones. It’s like the headphones gain depth and sound stage! I’m using a RME DAC that has an onboard EQ which allows me to have presets for different headphones and allows the curve to be applied in and out of my DAW.
Glad you got into the Harman curve and that it works for you. That's a cool feature the RME DAC has, I like that!
Hello Can u explain me please how to preset EQ on Rme UCX II for Headphones?
@Kane_62There is a room EQ button on the monitor outputs in totalmix. It gives you 10 bands of parametric EQ. There are some (insignificant) limits on the settings (q). You can adjust for that in Auto EQ and it will compensate and optimize for you.
the answer is simple for me, i try it out with already a perfect Mix , from Mick Guzauski ( Daft Punk - The Game of love) I put the frequencies on My RME Totalmix HP Section, and listen with on , and off, and i must say this is awesome. Thanks Chris . ...I mixed a song, and after i listen over my focals speakers, and it sounds more Punchy .....love it ....i will give this a try in the next couple weeks.
amazing video, thank you, this has transformed my listening experience
You're very welcome
Bought some Audeze LCD-Xs and this got recommended at a good time :) Thanks, cool content!
Cool. Gonna try this out, after seeing both you and Paul Third suggest it. I bought a pair of
Sennheiser HD560S earlier this year, (naively) thinking that having flatter headphones would help me achieve better translation.... Well, that was an education in of itself, and I haven't mixed on them since. Looking forward to seeing if applying the Harman curve with tweaks will help make them useful to me in a mixing context. Thanks much for going through the steps to make it clear how much effort it will take to set it up the curve properly.
I like your videos, but in this one, you've nailed it. Really great info, thanks buddy.
I really love your take on all things musical .. not over the top just like a mate who is really good at what he does ... and sharing the wealth of knowledge he has found ... I never stop learning stuff (@73 ..which can be a little hard at times ) from your vids .. many thanks for your insights and the way you present them ... I have, great and not so great HP, plus monitors and use them all for my mixes ... this bit of knowledge may help with future projects 👍 Take care and thanks for the help ...
Thanks a lot for the kind words, you made my day! :-)
HOLY COW I’ve been looking for this exact type of thing for weeks now. Thank you! I can now flatten my headphone curve and use my NS-10 IR.
I wanted to buy heaphones with a better freq. response but this is perfect for my current headphones :D
Interesting topic, would you mind sharing where you found the filter value to convert from the custom parametric EQ to fabfilter pro q 3? So i can better understand why and how it needs to be changed.
I just tried this method on my Denon D5200, and it worked well! A little bit cleaner sound, less muddy. Thanks!
Great to hear. and you're welcome!
For me using two pair of headphones is the best way. Generaly I am mixing on Sennenheiser 650HD - but i switch to cheaper AT m40x too check high end harshness because the 650 are a bit to forgiving. The AT are perfect for this.
That's for sure a good way to go
I do the same. For mixing I have a pair of Bayerdynamic DT990 Pro, which have a crystal clear sound. But then I also use a pair of Sennheiser HD200Pro, which are pretty cheap and sound way more HiFi, especially with a lot of low end boost. More the once I had a low end which sounded fine on the DT990 because they are so clear, but the HD200 revealed that it was actually too muddy and loud. Testing on several consumer speakers showed that most of them would have the low end problems.
@@DariuszBlasi I have the atm40x and all the fake leather came off The ear pieces and cross piece. Have you seen that before?
@@Celticsaint777 Same here..but they still work fine
@@guyfeldman4404 I just end up with pieces of black plastic stock on my face or ears. lol
Nice surprise to see @Mixyap - one of the leading Turkish mix channel referenced here. Emrah Celik and Paul also highly recommend using an external headphone-amp for mixing. I got the most impressive improvement in sound after adding an external HA in my set-up, felt like it took blanket off the speakers.
Thanks for the video! Very interesting info. Questions: How did you learn that when using the Pro-Q3 that you would need to multiply the Q values by 1.41, and how did you learn that the Pro-Q3 is using biquad filters? Also, what are others using instead of biquad filters? Do you know if the Pro-Q4 uses the same biquad filters? Thanks again! Trying this now.
They did a study and found that the audioengineers actually prefer the OG harman curve instead of the new one. It’s not supposed to be flat, it’s supposed to be the average preference of a larger group of people. Which is why you get a slight bass boost like you get a boost on the speakers at the bottom end _in a room_. Flat headphones don’t sound natural, harman curve tuned headphones do. If you mix to harman curve, it will likely translate good on many systems because harman resembles the eq choice the majority prefers.
Thanks for providing a starting point into this whole chapter.
I am not too knowledgable on these matters, but did manage to find an enthousiast's website where he tests lower end headphones on a self-built testing system and adapts some of them with cheap material. For the hardcore, there will always be options :D
But always looking to improve, with babysteps if needed. I'd rather mix on headphones than monitors and I can't really see myself prepping my living space for mixing to the extent that monitors would be better for me.
Another helpful video. Thanks Chris. : ) Kind regards, Darren (Wales, UK)
You're welcome! Thanks for watching, Darren!
Thanks Chris, great video. Bummed about missing mix feedback tomorrow but I'm in Tampa so we will be losing power tonight. I'll be ready for the next one😀
Oh, that's intense! Be safe, brother!
Most headphone designers use the Harmon curve when developing their headphones to tune them as close as possible to that curve. So what you really want is a good headphone that closely matches the harmon curve. To my ears, the best matching headphones are ones like the Hifiman Susvara, Audezee CRBN2 electro stat, Raal Acoustic Magnus, and if you want the ultimate headphone experience currently available on planet Earth, get the Hifiman Shangri La Sr.
Great video, great review. I use my beats pro headphones and the curve looks really great. maybe a lilttle adjustment on the 5k fc. but nothing more for my ears. Anyway thanks again Chris.
Interesting info, Chris, thank you. I will check Pauls’s video too.
1:30 That curve… I can think in induction machines…
Stoked to try this. I’m mixing in my cabin aboard a cruise ship so using my speakers isn’t always an option.
@5:03 . . . those filter settings are not really to "play around with the settings" (to adjust the sound), they are to better inform the algorithm as to the limits of the EQ you are using . . . so for example if the EQ you are using only allows cuts and boosts of 6dB then the algorithm would like to know that, or if the EQ you are using has a maximum Q factor of 4 for bell curves then - again - this knowledge will better help it adjust its settings to your particular EQ.
For example ProQ3's Q factor goes up to 40 (note: *1.41 =56), Logic's built in EQ goes even further, up to 100, whereas Izotope's EQ only goes up to a Q factor of 12. Letting AutoEQ know this helps it achieve what it needs to do.
Simply put, rather than adjust the sound, these settings are . . . "Hey AutoEQ, my EQ can boost by this much, it's Q can go this high, it's shelves stop at 15Khz" (etc)
Makes sense. To translate Q factor from Pro-Q3 to AutoEQ, would you not divide 40 /1.41 and input 28.3 into AutoEQ?
@@dwaynedelario Yes, whoops ! My mistake, you're right translating from ProQ3 into the real word (other EQs) you would take ProQ3's Q factor and divide it by 1.414 (√2) . . . or multiply it by 0.707 (sin(45°)).
So yeah, like you say, for the maximum Q factor (for ProQ3 filter settings in AutoEQ) you would use 28.3.
By the way, when setting these filter settings, you don't have to be 'honest', you don't have to let AutoEq know the whole truth, you may not like the sound of very narrow Q factors or big boosts on a particular EQ you're using, so rather than reveal to AutoEQ (through the filter settings) that your EQ can boost up to 96dB, you can tell AutoEQ that the maximum boost is 24dB . . . in that sense the filter settings become limits that you don't want AutoEQ to go beyond, you only want it to use 24dB (at most) of that 96dB range . . . (but of course, you still need to keep these choices within the EQ's actual ranges, so you can't tell AutoEQ that the max boost is 200dB when in reality it's only 96dB, but you can tell AutoEQ it's 12dB) . . . of course all this will still produce the same result, but AutoEQ will have to adjust its approach to stay within your filter settings.
Thanks for the video. This is why I use ToneBoosters Morphit. It has it all integrated. Frequency curve adjustment for the headphones and different listening simulations from Harman Curves to other headphones and speakers. Total game changer 💯
Wow, is it that good? Hows panning?
I use the Sennheiser HD650 headphones. They have a great stereo image representation. They work well with TB Morphit.
Also, I’m using Ayaic’s Ceilings Of Sound Pro on the master with a brown noise -4,5 dB curve to check and adjust the frequency response. Try it for yourself
Hey’o! I’ve been mixing with a Razer Haptic feedback headphone and a Buttkicker that’s primarily used for racing sims/video games.
It’s immensely helped with my sub/low end mixes. Because I know how they respond to other mixes and I can translate that information to get a strong balance.
I've used headphones for both enjoyment and critical listening for ages. Thanks for your demo. 👍
My pleasure!
good to have as additional tool. Stil... i would go for flat mainly to be more precise specially in the harsh region 3 k... and also... this all bekomes reenforced if you use good references and your ears know how good mixes sound in any phone, setting or speaker you use. Thanks😊
"According to statist survey, 87 percent of the respondents use their headphones to listen to music. In fact in the workplace, 93% reported wearing headphones to listen to music. You have more and more engineers now mixing on things like air pods and a quick test on monitors which i find interesting."
Totally!
I don't remember the last time I used my monitors to judge a mix. But I do have three pairs of headphones. They keep the house quiet 🤣🤷😭
Makes total sense. Though it depends on the genre, techno for example should be mixed for clubs
If the Harmann Curve is meant to replicate the sound of high quality speakers in a studio room, but through headphones, would this mean that using a room sim plugin like Waves NX and then Sonarworks after to flatten my headphones be a similar effect? Waves has EQ correction using Harmann Curve also, my headphones are just not listed on it. Otherwise I would use that instead. Would I be better off using headphones on their EQ list?
I'm definitely gonna check this out. Thx Chris 👊🏻
Any time!
Nice one, Chris. It's definitely worth a try.
Go for it!
Would you recommend mixing with a pair of Beyerdynamic DT 990 Pro 250 ohm?
yes they are very good! especially for the price
This helped improve my mixing. Thanks!
Happy to hear that!
Hi Chris, thanks for clearing the location (CB Control Room) where to put the dedicated EQ down below. Would have been nice if you used the CB EQ instead of the fab 😉
It would've been cool, but the ProQ3 with all my presets is available outside Cubase, using other apps, and not Frequency, so that's my defense, lol!
Thank you Chris, i will Try this out today ✌🏽👍🏼
Have fun!
Thank you! @@mixdownonline
Excellent video, many thanks!
You are welcome!
Using Neumann NDH 30's. I A/B'd the sample music on the website and I honestly don't like how bright the EQ correction sounds. And I believe I am losing some detail in the mids as well.. It sounds a bit scooped. I can how ever use this as an A/B tool to get a different perspective on my mixes. Maybe even lower the percentage of the "gain scale" on the Pro-Q to around 30% to 50%, so that the EQ curve being applied is more subtle. Great video nonetheless!
Well nice point of view here, even tho i prefer the vsx plugin with slate headphones, thst in this case its just a good emulation of pro studios and that flat the bass frequencies and help maintain it in place👌🏽
Thanks for this, my friend! For a long time I've been using Sonarworks Reference 4 (didn't you review this), along with Blue Cat Audio Re-Head (this specifically for simulating studio monitor placement), and have been quite satisfied. This, however, does sound promising!
It's worth a shot, and free, that doesn't mean you will like it, though!
I'm a big believer in mixing in headphones as well; for me the Valhalla 2 headphone amp was a GAME CHANGER x 10; it's like hearing in 8k resolution. I could INSTANTLY hear different frequencies and whether they are the problem of not, I can hear a difference of 1 db of EQ. Problem is, if I wanted to apply this EQ curve, I don't think it would be correct for what the amp does to the frequency response of the headphones natural state.
looks sweet but idk how that would help tbh. nor do I understand how flattening headphone response would. Adjustments for a room make sense where it’s all bouncing around or stacking up but yeah.. guess I’m hoping you’ll sell me on it cuz it seems noice lol
Thanks so much Chris, i've tried the calibration on my new track and difference is Night/Day 😃. Extremely grateful for sharing this tip and you have another follower. Any recommendation for headphones amp? Cheers
Glad you like this one. Note that it takes time to adjust, so be in no rush. For headphone amps, that's my next step, I still use my audio interface for now.
I've been using dsound realphones for a while, and it actually have a harman curve for evepy headphone profile, not to mention a ton of other options. Now gonna use this to check my mixes alongisde all other environments, thanks
I just got Realphones V2, since lots of people have been talking about it...I will give it a try!
I love my Sonarworks on my nearfields, but never liked it on headphones, definitely giving this a try, thanks for the tip!
You're welcome! Thanks for watching!
ok, i tried this Harman Curve out. I've been mixing and listening to a lot of music. The only way I can explain it, is that kinda sounds like you are listening to really good studio monitors.
Same experience here!
This technique Seems to work fine on my Neumann NDH 30
Very cool to know it
Thanks
🙏
Amazing stuff! Thank you for the insight!
My pleasure!
thanks for this!
Hey Chris great video I was wondering where you found the formula for the Q (1.41) when using the Pro Q equalizer?
That was recommended by mixing engineer Emrah Celik
I think it is related to the square root of 2
Ok, I thought it would be an awesome idea to have this Harman curve, but I tried it on the NDH-30 and it sounded TOO BRIGHT and , per consequence (probably), it lost the mids body. They are soft on the highs and I kinda like the way it is. The only thing I "correct" in my NDH-30 are the subs (I like it subby/fat, not balanced), +7/9dB. Since I did this sub eq move, my low-end was everytime on point. *chef-kiss* (or pretty close to it)
I have those cans and I find them to be amazing straight out the box. Didn’t like the sound ID curve either. When I got my RME ADI 2 with hi power output - holy shit
@@AirArtStudiosOfficial I think I have some low frequency lost in my ears lol cause everything I listen I prefer with more low-end than the default. I tried mixing with the default curve of the NDH-30 but my subs wasn't the way I was listening (because I wasn't listening it enough to judge). It was there, but not enough for my ears. Did you try this Harman Curve in your NDH-30?
i see you're using the proq with zero latency. would there be any benefit from using that contra non-linear eq types?
Good question
From my current understanding, we might see it like this: a "flat" audio spectrum put into a real room will be changed due to reflections and other room effects (e.g. increases in low frequencies). When using room simulation plugins like dearvr mix or dsoniq's realphones, these spectral changes are created by their emulations of reflections and binaural crossfeeds. When we don't emulate the room and want a similar acoustic impression with our headphones (with or without a simple crossfeed tool like can opener), we need to EQ. The Harmann curve might not be the optimal target or be not what a good room simulation would produce, but it is -coincidently?- much closer to it than a flat target curve, and therefore what we hear (might) translate better to speaker systems.🤓 Nevertheless, it always relevant how the producer/mixer enjoys his/her music and how he/she "learns" the reference tracks...😅
Maybe I should try how a room simulation plugin alters the frequency spectrum of (white) noise.. 🤔
I would think that it depends. I picked the harman curve for overear headphones
but i dont know how it would be foor room acustics
Thanks Chris, again a very useful video.
You're welcome!
Thanks Chris!
Auto EQ is a great free tool.
I’m wondering if you have tried to compensate for the dip over 10k on the mm500’s?
Also do know how to make/adjust your own target curve?
cheers
To add. Also using Nuendo and opted to use totalmix room eq over CR. This gives me the compensated curve when listening to streaming services too.
Maybe I missed this part but, you're copy/pasting that eq curve off the website, on to an eq plugin on your master channel, right?
He is.
Hey Chris, thanks lfor the tutorials. So, do you add any eq to the MASTER then implement the recommended curve to your eq?
Very good tips . Thank you
Of course!
Thanks, Chris. A really good video and explanation, as always! Would you mind sharing your Pro-Q3 EQ preset for the MM-500, please? May thanks!
YOOOO.... I always have loved mixing on Sony MDR-7506, even though I have more expensive headphones I have gone back to them because they are the best.... I see why now... I looked them up on autoeq, the curve is SO CLOSE to the harman curve that you barely have to change anything... I don't think I need to, I wonder how much impact my headphone amp has on the output
The Harman curve is for the listener, not the mix engineer, in my opinion. I want a flat reference headphone so I know exactly what's coming out of my stereo bus. We want our monitors flat and honest, right? Why should it be any different for headphones? No headphone is flat out of the box. You listen to your mix through whatever EQ curve your headphones possess. Further changing that EQ curve to match the Harman curve further muddies the mix, in my opinion. I've thought about this a lot lately. I watched the same video you did about the Harman idea. It made sense at the time. But upon further contemplation, I think it's actually wrong. What's coming out of the stereo bus is "your mix." I want to hear it exactly as it sounds. I use SoundID to flatten the response of my headphones so I know I can hear what's really going on. The Harman curve is anything but neutral.
Thanks for sharing your opinion on this. Like I said in my video, probably not made for everyone, but it's free to give it a shot, which it looks like you did, and you didn't like it. So I can't argue with this :)
For me, it's all about translation on other systems, and a flat EQ curve on headphones sounds too dull for me, and never ended up with good translation, but that's my experience, it's definately not a one size fits all.
Thanks for watching, my friend!
The Harman Curve is not designed specifically for listeners; moreover, all target curves are developed using a similar approach. What SoundID shows in the app is their compensated in-house target curve. Just like the Harman, Free Field, Diffuse Field, IEF, and all other existing target curves, these are created by measuring speakers with a rig that simulates a human head and ears. The resulting measurements are then used as a target for headphones (using the same rig to measure the headphones). For example, Sean Olive used a GRAS rig in his research. All measurements done with a binaural head don’t appear flat because such rigs illustrate how sound interacts with the human body, head, and ears, which is why the results don’t look flat. Compensated curves essentially account for the interaction of sound waves with the human body and auditory system to make the response appear flat. If you look at different raw target curves made with such rigs, you will notice that the general shape is very similar, such as a significant boost between 2-6 kHz, because that’s how our ears distort the sound they hear. You’ve likely heard that humans are more sensitive to certain frequencies.
Where the Harman Curve differs from curves like Free Field or Diffuse Field is that in Harman research, the target curve is tested on both untrained and trained listeners. If I remember correctly, Sonarworks’ target curve is based on personal preference to finalize it (similar to Harman’s process with listeners verifying the sound of the target curve), but because Sonarworks hasn’t disclosed their entire process, I might be wrong.
The reason Sonarworks doesn’t show an uncompensated graph is probably because it would make it very easy to use a tool like Pro-Q to replicate their EQ settings for different headphones, whereas Harman or Diffuse Field curves are essentially open-source in this context. But I’m speculating; I don’t know the real reason why Sonarworks doesn’t show an uncompensated target curve.
The reason we have several different curves, each with certain variations, is that physical factors-such as how headphones interact with our ears in real life-introduce another level of complexity to the measurements. Personal preference also comes into play, and target curves are adjusted to have more or less high-end and low-end, while keeping the overall shape of the curve.
Unlike SoundID, which does not disclose how they arrived at their target curve, Harman research is openly accessible to everyone, and anyone can review the results of decades of research conducted by Sean Olive. In contrast, with other curves, we have to rely on the creators' claims that they know better (essentially a “trust me, bro” type of situation). Harman is not supposed to be perfect (at least not yet), but in practice, it eliminates the need for complex EQ adjustments. Is there too much high-end? A simple high shelf can adjust the treble. Want a bit less low-end? Again, a low shelf can solve it. With headphones that don’t follow any target curve (like the LCD-X, for example), you first have to measure the headphones and then create a complex EQ, which can involve more than 10 EQ points to get the headphones to match a specific curve.
I like SoundID actually, it's totally valid target curve, it's just that it is not a polar opposite of how Sean Olive developed Harman Target. It's all variations on the same idea kind of.
your missing the point, Chris stated his mixes are now translating much better, why do you think everyone does the car stereo test and then realise their mix is out of what, Studio monitors can be too flat and may be a challenge to mix properly if you want to hear a certain soundscape. My final mixes and tests are done on a logitec 3 way system with sub and now my mixes translate far better than ever. I dont need to go to the car anymore.
Manley EQ has a F curve preset
What is soundid? I just got Neumann headphones because I’ve heard they are very neutral and is like mixing on Neumann monitors is a completely neutral room.
Thanks Chris, love from UAE
You're welcome! Thanks for watching!
Nice one, totally going to check this site out 👍
Thanks for watching :)
Hello Selim. You can do the same method more efficiently with apo eq for windows and aunbandeq on mac. I use the same method and I recommend it very successfully.
Could you do a second video that goes into more depth with what your experience has been switching to the Harmon curve, what you listen for, how the experience might be different than using flat curve? Those sorts of things. This is a great video and I want to switch to using the Harmon curve, and so looking for any and all tips.
The Harman target curve is flat. The reason it appears not flat is because it's created with measurement rigs like G.R.A.S. that simulate human hearing, placed on a dummy head. You’ve probably heard of binaural recordings done with microphones shaped like a human head-this is essentially the same concept.
In measurements like this, the natural interaction of sound with the human body, head, and hearing system is captured, allowing us to see how "flat" sound is altered.
Sean Olive used a G.R.A.S. measurement rig to measure a set of flat speakers in a treated room. This measurement was then used as a reference for creating the Harman target curve. The curve was tested with both trained and untrained listeners to verify it.
There is a certain level of complexity when it comes to precisely measuring headphones, as it's hard to measure how headphones interact with humans. The closest tools we have for this are rigs like G.R.A.S. and B&K.
Other curves, like Diffuse Field and Free Field, are created in a similar manner. Sonarworks’ SoundID also used a similar approach to Harman to generate their own target curve. While there are other third-party target curves, they all follow the same general shape. The main differences are in the amount of low-end and high-end, though the overall methodology is similar, and their shapes are more alike than different.
The reason these target curves don’t look flat is that they show how human hearing changes the sound. That’s why there’s a compensation mechanism that removes the alterations caused by human hearing, which results in a flat line. For example, SoundID shows a compensated target curve, but their raw target curve is actually quite close to Harman (once you reverse-engineer it).
The thing is, humans figured out how to properly measure speakers, but when it comes to headphones, we’re still working on it. That’s what Harman research is about-Sean Olive is trying to figure out how to properly measure headphones and tune them for a flat sound. So, in short, the Harman target curve is flat, or at least aims to be. It may be confusing at first, but this strange, curved frequency response is just a byproduct of the measurement system. It’s actually flat!
Because many headphones have strange frequency response that doesn't comply with any targets, to properly tune your headphones, you will need to measure your specific set of headphones. Most people cannot do that (rigs are expensive), and that's why a lot of people use measurements done by somebody else. There will be a certain degree of error, and you might have too much high end, or not enough low end after you EQ your headphones, but that's sadly something we have to accept at the moment.
@@gkmixing Wow, that is very helpful, and thank you for taking the time to explains this. I watched quite a few of these Harmon explanations over the last few years, including Paul Third's but didn't understand what you just explained. That actually makes a ton of sense. Essentially the Harmon curve is trying to flatten out the frequency response by "fixing" or flattening out the changes to the sound our ears make, so we are actually hearing what flat sounds like, and not a colored version of flat. Very cool! I also appreciate your point that most of these Harmon like curves are basically about the same and we just need to tune it to what we like. I was a bit stressed about just how many options there are, but it's making more sense now. Again, thank you!
@@phadrus no problem! I too was very confused, so I'm trying to help out as much as I can, as it's a complex topic. : ) One correction, it's not really about "fixing" exactly, but Harman Target just shows that if you measure "flat" sound with a specific tool like G.R.A.S. rig, a flat frequency response will look a certain way (the shape of Harman Target), it's all strange looking, because that's how flat looks like through measurement tool like G.R.A.S. It is made in such a way to simulate how humans really hear the sound, it's not 100% accurate, but it's the best we've got. Basically, following the Harman Target will produce headphones with flat frequency response, it will just look weird on a graph.
Compensation I talked about is kind of just visual thing to show Harman Target as a flat line, but that's not that important really. For example, on AutoEQ website, the closer RAW frequency response of headphones to a blue line is (blue line representing Harman Target), the flatter such headphones are. :)
But there is a caveat with all this. Measurement tools are not perfect, that's why over the years Harman target was slightly adjusted, and it might be adjusted in the future. So, use it as a starting point, and don't be afraid to adjust it. :)
Thanks for your input, and the explanation of headphone measurements, and graphic curves, this is good stuff!
Not everyone agrees on the Harman Curve being "Flat" per say, not in the music mixing world anyways, that's probably why it's always evolving. What I know is that it's trying to emulate the flat sound of high quality speakers in a controlled room environment, but like you said, there's a certain degree of error. Same for the Sound ID target, is it really "Flat"? What I know is that it sounds "Duller" than the Harman curve even if it not worlds apart from Harman.
With that said, you probably know more about all of this than me :-) What I know is that my mixes translate better on most systems when I use the Harman Curves on my Headphones, whether this curve is "Flat" or not.
Thanks again for your input, mate!
@phadrus The best advice I can give you right now, is to take the time to listen to lots of reference music tracks using this curve before you start mixing with it. I would give the same advice if you were buying a new set of studio monitors, get to know them well before mixing with them :)
Could you technically just apply an eq on your master with the same frequency response as your speakers?
Great tip! Thanks, Chris.
Any time!
Wow many thanks for this info. That's pretty cool.
Any time!
nice, i'll try this for sure - thanks
Is there a guide how to translate those settings to the ableton eq? I love the idea of using harman for final polishing.
i actually reccomend using a convolation reverb plugin, it works better imo
Chris that's amazing. Thanks a lot.
Of course!
Thanks Chris. Worth a try. I only have experience with AKG K271, K240, K141, Koss 444+ and now even Vic Firth SIH2 (for recording drums). Generally AKG headphones have a high resolution in the mids and highs but are a bit attenuated in the bass. I have done several mixings with AKG and it has worked fine. The Koss have the rumour of being flat. With that though comes a honkiness which actually is not pleasing to the ear at all.
Someone any tip on which phones works out best for mixing through time???
Best wishes from Sweden 🇸🇪.
Great info.-Thx 👍👍👍
You're welcome
Thanks Chris. That’s new to me. I’m interested to know why you don’t get on with SoundID for headphones…?
I've never been a fan of the flat curve approach on headphones, sound too dull for me.
@@mixdownonline That makes sense. It's such a personal and intimate thing, the headphone environment. Didn't Andrew Schepps say he preferred to mix on the bass-heavy Sony MDR-7506 ... or am I misquoting him? In any event, it's how it translates that matters. Cheers for the quick response! 🙂
Thanks a lot Chris, very interesting video as usual. I guess the same EQ settings should be applied on the software I listen to music with outside of Cubase (Foobar in my case), so that I get used to this "corrected" listening?
Yes, exactly. There's Apps like SoundSource (Mac) that are designed to take control of the computer's main outputs, where you can insert plugins.
@Frikoppie-q2v If you uncheck all devices in Additional, it is applied over all devices. Furthermore, it can happen that you need to go to Actions>... Configurator again (and restart) to install the APO filter again to make the app work.
I think Tone boosters Morphit with Can opener studio is pretty decent. I would be interested if someone could compare to their studio monitors for comparison..and see if its anywhere near...its ok having these studio references, but the engineer knows his room and would adjust accordingly.......
hey man, I followed this with my beyerdynamic dt 880 pro and my sennheiser hd 650. First of all, I noted a big difference in volumes. And about the EQ with the beyerdynamic, with the high end EQ that takes the volume down with a high shelf to -12.4 and it doesn't recover with a bell in the same frequency rate I exaggeratedly lost the high end..
I have the same pair of headphones. Have you tried flattening the eq instead of using the Harnann Curve? Curious to know if it's any good.
How about using the Fletcher-Munson curves instead? It's the first time I've heard about the Harman curve
I know what you mean, but to keep it short, The Fletcher-Munson curves are not EQ Targets, but a state of human frequency hearing.
I used to have a bad mix on headphones till I used them for a year and now my mix is almost good it sits well on most sound systems
Chris, love your channel. Great videos and information. Im thinking of getting the Audeze LCD X’s. Ive never tried a pair before. Is there really that much of a difference between them and say Sennheiser 600’s or Hifiman Sundaras or Beyerdynamics 880 pros? Whats your opinion? Thanks man!
I have a good friend that mastered a ton of music only using LCD X's, big name latin artists. He moved on to PMC monitors but for several years he was only using those headphones. I only listened to them once, they sound good, but they are very heavy (weight).
I personally use Neumann NDH 30. I like how they sound, doesn't sound hyped. Pretty neutral in my opinion. When something is not mixed well or not recorded well, it is very apparent. The previous set of headphones I had were the DT 1990's. I like the NDH 30's better, they are more detailed, more revealing. Definitely try out multiple headphones if you can because everyone has a different taste.
@ thanks so much Ill try the NDH’s because my local Long and McQuade has them and then can compare withe the LCD X’s. You rock, thanks brother!
@@alexanderhobson5585 no problem man! I’d love to know your opinion after you try them both out.
i dont have any monitors, and the best headphones i have is samson sr850. id love to know what others who own these headphones think of the sound on them using this, because i must admit it's kind of underwhelming and it just sounds muddy to me. im aware these have a some extra high end, but man does it sound wrong. for the record i used equalizerAPO and didnt change any settings after selecting that option on the website
Cool, thanks for these tips
Happy to help!
Hello. Thank you for this!
How did you get the number 1.41? Would like to understand in depth with this.
Also should the Pro Q3 be 'Linear Phase' and not 'Zero Latency'...?
Thanks
Same question !
This is why I like the new Sennheiser 490 Pros, close enough to a flat response stock without a blown out bass end. Adding all of those bass frequencies back in just isn’t necessary because 30-35hz and below is taken out in Mastering anyway.
It's so nice :D
I put a Fruity Convolver into FL Studio which has the harman response
So it's maybe more accurate and I don't need to put in EQ settings manually.
My Sony WH-1000XM4 aren't quite the best for mixing (the bass is way too loud and at 2kHz it's quiet) so this should help :D
Hie bro, thanks for your teachings ❤....as for me, I am a beginner I need help HOW TO GET FULL VERSION OF CUBASE...I don't know where to start
Interesting video thanks. Not sure I would trust it though, I'm going to buy the Sony MDR-M1 headphones and be done with it, I still A/B with my monitors.
A blend of headphones, and studio monitors is always a good way to go!
@@mixdownonline True. Everyone listens on earbuds now, I should get some of those too!
Woah.. it feels like magic
Any tips for getting these settings into Steinberg's built in Frequency plugin?
Just enter the same EQ values in Frequency as shown on autoeq.app
@@mixdownonline Thanks. I just wanted to know if I needed to multiply the Q values by something.
@@gregortorrence8487 Not for Frequency :)