I Will Never Mix on Headphones Without THIS, and it's FREE
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- Опубликовано: 10 окт 2024
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In this video, I'll show you why I never mix on headphones without using the Harman Curve Target EQ. This free tool has transformed the way I mix on headphones!
👉 👉 👉 IMPORTANT:
A few things I didn't mention in this video:
Just note that I use the Cubase Pro Control Room Inserts to insert my EQ plugin for my headphones. If you don't have Cubase Pro, and you insert a Headphone EQ on your Master Out channel, don't forget to bypass it when exporting your mix ;)
Like Paul Third commented below, it is important to note that the low end boost required for the Harman curve may end up causing colouration/increased distortion in some cheaper dynamic headphones. Planar Magnetic headphones will tend to take this type of EQ low boost better than some Dynamic Headphones.
👉 Check out Auto EQ here: autoeq.app/
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MENTIONED IN THIS VIDEO
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Paul Third's video • Why I DON'T advise mix...
Working Audio Tools Podcast featuring Emrah Celik: open.spotify.c...
Other resources to check out:
headphonesaddi...
headlinermagaz...
dekoniaudio.co...
• THD 99 Harman Headphon...
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Some of the gear and plugins I use in the studio:
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CUBASE 13 ➜ sweetwater.sjv...
DAW CONTROLLER Presonus Faderport 16 ➜ sweetwater.sjv...
STREAM DECK ➜ amzn.to/3OFVHaO
MONOGRAM CC ➜ monogramcc.com...
SPEAKER CONTROLLER ➜ sweetwater.sjv...
MICROPHONE ➜ sweetwater.sjv...
STUDIO MONITORS:
KALI Audio IN-8 ➜ sweetwater.sjv...
HEADPHONES:
Audeze MM-500 ➜ www.audeze.com...
Austrian Audio Hi-X65 ➜ sweetwater.sjv...
Beyer Dynamics DT770 ➜ sweetwater.sjv...
STUDIO MONITOR CONTROLLER ➜ sweetwater.sjv...
#mixdownonline #chirsselim 
Видеоклипы
Just note that I use the Cubase Pro Control Room Inserts to insert my EQ plugin for my headphones. If you don't have Cubase Pro, and you insert a Headphone EQ on your Master Out channel, don't forget to bypass it when exporting your mix ;)
Like Paul Third commented below, it is important to note that the low end boost required for the Harman curve may end up causing colouration/increased distortion in some cheaper dynamic headphones. Planar Magnetic headphones will tend to take this type of EQ low boost better than some Dynamic Headphones.
I was about to ask where you insert the EQ, Control Room Inserts was the expected answer 🙂
Chris, use actual (free) system-wide EQ software like EqualizerAPO, not only is it system-wide but you can decrease the main gain to attenuate foor boosted (low end) frequencies, you won't have to worry about distortion. I'm currently using the Sennheiser HD 6XX headphones with the LMG 0.6 target, with the gain being -12.3dB.
Thanks for the shoutout Chris. Other channels would've just passed everything off as their own but always good to see other creators sharing the inspiration behind the video 🤜🤛
Also good to have more people talking about mixing to harman. It takes time to adjust but the only thing I think I didn't mention in mine, can't remember if I did, was to make people aware that the low end boost required for harman may end up causing colouration/increased distortion in some cheaper dynamic headphones, like say a lot of beyerdynamic. That's why I always reccomend planars like your MM-500 as they have cleaner low end and can handle the low end adjustment without essentially crapping out and distorting in the low end
@@PaulThird because of you I bought the hifi man Ananda nano and bought the topping e2x2 and apply the Harman curve and can opener and my mind just blow away best investment in my music production ever
Hey Paul, nice to meet you! You're welcome, I give credit to where credit is due :)
Thanks for the reminder about the dynamic headphones and low boost. I heard that before, but forgot about it. I'll add a note in the video description. Thanks again, mate!
What about AKG240? Is this still a good way?
@@LightsOfSkadi definitely don't use Akg240 for mixing. Huge bass distortion stock and that's even with being pretty deficient in bass. Harman bass boost required will only further compound the issue.
Nothing can fix this unfortunately. I would recommend mixing on different headphones
@@PaulThird I use ATH-M50x most of the time these days. I just made myself a Pro-Q3 preset of the Harman Curve for them and it's pretty fantastic. The biggest difference i've noticed is the massive volume reduction. I don't see a "preamp volume" on Pro-Q3 so i applied the prescribed setting to the output volume. I think the headphones sound great on their own and i can hear even more clearly with the curve applied to them, but are they actually any good for mixing?
I have KRK Rokit 6's and my room is completely deadened with soundproof insulation, but because of apartment life the headphones are on 80% of the time or more. I've always they sounded great and i've gotten so used to them that i actually prefer mixing on them. The lack of sub is an obvious issue, but i use SPAN to check on that.
The Harman curve is for the listener, not the mix engineer, in my opinion. I want a flat reference headphone so I know exactly what's coming out of my stereo bus. We want our monitors flat and honest, right? Why should it be any different for headphones? No headphone is flat out of the box. You listen to your mix through whatever EQ curve your headphones possess. Further changing that EQ curve to match the Harman curve further muddies the mix, in my opinion. I've thought about this a lot lately. I watched the same video you did about the Harman idea. It made sense at the time. But upon further contemplation, I think it's actually wrong. What's coming out of the stereo bus is "your mix." I want to hear it exactly as it sounds. I use SoundID to flatten the response of my headphones so I know I can hear what's really going on. The Harman curve is anything but neutral.
Thanks for sharing your opinion on this. Like I said in my video, probably not made for everyone, but it's free to give it a shot, which it looks like you did, and you didn't like it. So I can't argue with this :)
For me, it's all about translation on other systems, and a flat EQ curve on headphones sounds too dull for me, and never ended up with good translation, but that's my experience, it's definately not a one size fits all.
Thanks for watching, my friend!
The Harman Curve is not designed specifically for listeners; moreover, all target curves are developed using a similar approach. What SoundID shows in the app is their compensated in-house target curve. Just like the Harman, Free Field, Diffuse Field, IEF, and all other existing target curves, these are created by measuring speakers with a rig that simulates a human head and ears. The resulting measurements are then used as a target for headphones (using the same rig to measure the headphones). For example, Sean Olive used a GRAS rig in his research. All measurements done with a binaural head don’t appear flat because such rigs illustrate how sound interacts with the human body, head, and ears, which is why the results don’t look flat. Compensated curves essentially account for the interaction of sound waves with the human body and auditory system to make the response appear flat. If you look at different raw target curves made with such rigs, you will notice that the general shape is very similar, such as a significant boost between 2-6 kHz, because that’s how our ears distort the sound they hear. You’ve likely heard that humans are more sensitive to certain frequencies.
Where the Harman Curve differs from curves like Free Field or Diffuse Field is that in Harman research, the target curve is tested on both untrained and trained listeners. If I remember correctly, Sonarworks’ target curve is based on personal preference to finalize it (similar to Harman’s process with listeners verifying the sound of the target curve), but because Sonarworks hasn’t disclosed their entire process, I might be wrong.
The reason Sonarworks doesn’t show an uncompensated graph is probably because it would make it very easy to use a tool like Pro-Q to replicate their EQ settings for different headphones, whereas Harman or Diffuse Field curves are essentially open-source in this context. But I’m speculating; I don’t know the real reason why Sonarworks doesn’t show an uncompensated target curve.
The reason we have several different curves, each with certain variations, is that physical factors-such as how headphones interact with our ears in real life-introduce another level of complexity to the measurements. Personal preference also comes into play, and target curves are adjusted to have more or less high-end and low-end, while keeping the overall shape of the curve.
Unlike SoundID, which does not disclose how they arrived at their target curve, Harman research is openly accessible to everyone, and anyone can review the results of decades of research conducted by Sean Olive. In contrast, with other curves, we have to rely on the creators' claims that they know better (essentially a “trust me, bro” type of situation). Harman is not supposed to be perfect (at least not yet), but in practice, it eliminates the need for complex EQ adjustments. Is there too much high-end? A simple high shelf can adjust the treble. Want a bit less low-end? Again, a low shelf can solve it. With headphones that don’t follow any target curve (like the LCD-X, for example), you first have to measure the headphones and then create a complex EQ, which can involve more than 10 EQ points to get the headphones to match a specific curve.
I like SoundID actually, it's totally valid target curve, it's just that it is not a polar opposite of how Sean Olive developed Harman Target. It's all variations on the same idea kind of.
your missing the point, Chris stated his mixes are now translating much better, why do you think everyone does the car stereo test and then realise their mix is out of what, Studio monitors can be too flat and may be a challenge to mix properly if you want to hear a certain soundscape. My final mixes and tests are done on a logitec 3 way system with sub and now my mixes translate far better than ever. I dont need to go to the car anymore.
Manley EQ has a F curve preset
@drucartier2164 what is the F curve Preset? For what?
i've been doing this for a while and i also love it. i'm using a uad apollo and send all my tracks in console to one of the aux busses and then send that to the headphones. i can then drop a couple of precision channel plugins on that aux and eq there, so it's global. i did have to check the curves with an eq analyser so they matched the target, as the shelves had a slightly different Q values, similar to the Pro-Q. it makes a huge difference and is definitely worth doing, even with expensive headphones!
Gave this a try and the difference is pretty amazing ... Thx Chris for sharing
I use ToneBoosters Morphit which also uses the Harman curve, but does it for me and many headphones. And there are many more options. Great plugin
Never heard of this one, thanks for the tip!
@@marekvoosen I use this one too. It’s very simple and easy to use. Only thing I wish was built it was some crosstalk. But easy to handle in a separate plugin. Hornets VHS plug-in could be a good cheap alternative for many people. I’m not sure how good it is, but it does the same thing Morphit does along with the cross feed and Room emulation.
this is what I use too. it supports a staggering amount of headphones, even IEMs and earbuds. not too expensive either
I use Morphit coupled with Goodhertz CanOpener for crosstalk emulation.
@@Mcgiver699 same here!
Yesss🙌🏾… I also stumbled upon this information some months back and it definitely changed the way I hear using my HD 650 and MM 500 headphones. It’s like the headphones gain depth and sound stage! I’m using a RME DAC that has an onboard EQ which allows me to have presets for different headphones and allows the curve to be applied in and out of my DAW.
Glad you got into the Harman curve and that it works for you. That's a cool feature the RME DAC has, I like that!
Hello Can u explain me please how to preset EQ on Rme UCX II for Headphones?
amazing video, thank you, this has transformed my listening experience
You're very welcome
I really love your take on all things musical .. not over the top just like a mate who is really good at what he does ... and sharing the wealth of knowledge he has found ... I never stop learning stuff (@73 ..which can be a little hard at times ) from your vids .. many thanks for your insights and the way you present them ... I have, great and not so great HP, plus monitors and use them all for my mixes ... this bit of knowledge may help with future projects 👍 Take care and thanks for the help ...
Thanks a lot for the kind words, you made my day! :-)
Chris you're a legend. Just checked this on two sets of headphones that I use and it blew my mind.
Glad you like this one :)
That's the reason I love Sony 7506, the frequency response was very close to harman curve, the tone of it just like my speaker which with good room treatment and calibration.
funny they aren''t even that expensive too lol, i prefer cheap AGK semi open back headphones over a lot of other expensive brands. i'm on my 2nd pair now.
@@Maplefoxx-vl2ew yea, true. Expensive not mean High Fidelity.
Besides to 7506, AKG K361 was great too👍🏼
For me, the highs of the 7506s are a bit too harsh. Thats why I bought Reference some years ago. But now that I know there's a free alternative, I could save money in the future. ;-)
Nice surprise to see @Mixyap - one of the leading Turkish mix channel referenced here. Emrah Celik and Paul also highly recommend using an external headphone-amp for mixing. I got the most impressive improvement in sound after adding an external HA in my set-up, felt like it took blanket off the speakers.
Paul Third is quite a funny guy, with strong opinions. I like him.
He is, and I like him too!
Another helpful video. Thanks Chris. : ) Kind regards, Darren (Wales, UK)
You're welcome! Thanks for watching, Darren!
I've used headphones for both enjoyment and critical listening for ages. Thanks for your demo. 👍
I just tried this method on my Denon D5200, and it worked well! A little bit cleaner sound, less muddy. Thanks!
Great to hear. and you're welcome!
Thanks Chris, great video. Bummed about missing mix feedback tomorrow but I'm in Tampa so we will be losing power tonight. I'll be ready for the next one😀
Oh, that's intense! Be safe, brother!
wow Chris, thanks a lot this is so unbelievable
Thanks for sharing this. I've got a cheaper pair of Sennheiser HD 4.50R that I've been using (wired) and a quick test with AUNBandEQ in Logic made a shocking difference. Great investment of time. I'm in the cheap seats, using a Behringer UMC204HD audio interface. Sends to outputs 3-4 go to the playback outputs 3-4 RCA connectors. Easy.
Excellent video, many thanks!
You are welcome!
You have to use earbuds and only the ones made by a well known Japanese company that starts with S and which I can't write in full because YT will probably autodelete this for mentioning a company name. You use those ones, which cost like $10-15, and you remove the fabric gauze that they put over the hole which you can see when you take the rubber things off. That gauze will get earwax in it and will block most of the sound. I actually thought something was wrong with my sound card because even turned up all the way the volume was still low. Then one day I took the rubber things off to clean them and saw the gauze was gunked up so I picked it off the holes and voila, perfect full volume sound. But to my point, those are the only brand of earbuds that have rich sound, others are tinny sounding and so are headphones that go over your ears, they all sound tinny, every one. So you use those specific earbuds and make sure they're pressed in your ears solidly and you are good for mixing and listening to music, for the first time in your life.
I'm definitely gonna check this out. Thx Chris 👊🏻
Any time!
Cool video. I’ve been mixing and mastering on 7506’s since 1995. I just know how they sound from 10,000 of listening I guess.
Interesting. But isn't the goal of Sound ID similar to what you are describing:
1- to have a quality reference, and
2- having a system to make your headphones more consistently "similar" to said quality reference?
Keep up the great work!
Great tip! Thanks, Chris.
Wow, my Austrian Audio headphones barely needed tweaking!
That's cool! Which model you have?
@@mixdownonline The Hi-X65. Highly recommended 🧡
Ok, I thought it would be an awesome idea to have this Harman curve, but I tried it on the NDH-30 and it sounded TOO BRIGHT and , per consequence (probably), it lost the mids body. They are soft on the highs and I kinda like the way it is. The only thing I "correct" in my NDH-30 are the subs (I like it subby/fat, not balanced), +7/9dB. Since I did this sub eq move, my low-end was everytime on point. *chef-kiss* (or pretty close to it)
I have those cans and I find them to be amazing straight out the box. Didn’t like the sound ID curve either. When I got my RME ADI 2 with hi power output - holy shit
@@AirArtStudiosOfficial I think I have some low frequency lost in my ears lol cause everything I listen I prefer with more low-end than the default. I tried mixing with the default curve of the NDH-30 but my subs wasn't the way I was listening (because I wasn't listening it enough to judge). It was there, but not enough for my ears. Did you try this Harman Curve in your NDH-30?
Thanks Chris, again a very useful video.
You're welcome!
Thanks for this, my friend! For a long time I've been using Sonarworks Reference 4 (didn't you review this), along with Blue Cat Audio Re-Head (this specifically for simulating studio monitor placement), and have been quite satisfied. This, however, does sound promising!
Nice one, totally going to check this site out 👍
Thanks for watching :)
Nice one, Chris. It's definitely worth a try.
Go for it!
"According to statist survey, 87 percent of the respondents use their headphones to listen to music. In fact in the workplace, 93% reported wearing headphones to listen to music. You have more and more engineers now mixing on things like air pods and a quick test on monitors which i find interesting."
Thank you Chris, i will Try this out today ✌🏽👍🏼
Have fun!
Thank you! @@mixdownonline
Great info.-Thx 👍👍👍
you made my day...thx
Glad I did!
So I have a pair of cheap in-ears, 7z salnotes zero, that I used as a sort of reference for a while now because I liked how neutral they sound, and I discovered they do have a profile on this website. So I check the curve, and lo and behold, turns out that they are very close to the harman curve🤣 Of course they lack the detail of more proper headphones, so they are not that great for actual mixing, but when it comes to checking the overall tonal balance, turns out I was on the right track
That's pretty cool! Love it!
I have tried it and it did not convince me. I prefer headphones without anything
That's totally fine! Thanks for watching!
Can Opener make sense
@@Karakan62 I have also used it for a while but I don't use it anymore.
Yes everyone has different choices ✌🏽@docshadrach
I also tried for a while but stuck with the original sound of my headphones. (ATH-M50X)
I love my Sonarworks on my nearfields, but never liked it on headphones, definitely giving this a try, thanks for the tip!
You're welcome! Thanks for watching!
Feels like the universe is listening. How the hell can this video be posted when I yesterday was researching this issue since my headphones aren't good enough on their own...
Happy to help!
Google is always listening... to your thoughts.
Thanks a lot Chris, very interesting video as usual. I guess the same EQ settings should be applied on the software I listen to music with outside of Cubase (Foobar in my case), so that I get used to this "corrected" listening?
Yes, exactly. There's Apps like SoundSource (Mac) that are designed to take control of the computer's main outputs, where you can insert plugins.
Hi Chris, thanks for clearing the location (CB Control Room) where to put the dedicated EQ down below. Would have been nice if you used the CB EQ instead of the fab 😉
It would've been cool, but the ProQ3 with all my presets is available outside Cubase, using other apps, and not Frequency, so that's my defense, lol!
Holy Shit!! Amazing. Thanks for this!
AMAZING!
Toneboosters Morphit + Canopener = win.
Thanks Chris, love from UAE
You're welcome! Thanks for watching!
How about using the Fletcher-Munson curves instead? It's the first time I've heard about the Harman curve
I know what you mean, but to keep it short, The Fletcher-Munson curves are not EQ Targets, but a state of human frequency hearing.
Hey Chris great video I was wondering where you found the formula for the Q (1.41) when using the Pro Q equalizer?
That was recommended by mixing engineer Emrah Celik
I think it is related to the square root of 2
Well this explains why my Sony MDR-7506s sound so good: they are _very_ close to this target curve already. I *did* try applying EQ correction once to achieve a _flat_ FQ response, but gave up on it quickly because it just did not sound good.
Oh cool! That's good to know
“Realphone has also measured almost every headphone, and it also has a Harman curve profile. Isn’t it much more time-saving to use that? Additionally, you have access to different rooms and can use crossfeed if you want. Would you be interested in trying it out and comparing it to your manually created curve?
Best regards”
I never tried Realphone yet, but heard good things about it, it would be nice to compare for sure!
Yes, I'm also considering RealPhone, it seems to be a complete solution
I have been wanting to test this out. I have never liked sound ID. The phase feel off for me. I feel luckie to live in a world of shared knowledge.
Good one, Thanks!
Thanks for watching
Looks good! I have a question; I did not catch it. This specific EQ Curve (for my headphones) should be placed on the Master (Stereo output) on the very end of the chain (before Limiter)? Please explain. Great channel! SUB!
I use the Cubase Pro Control Room Inserts to insert my EQ plugin for my headphones. If you don't have Cubase Pro, you can insert a Headphone EQ on your Master Out channel after all the other plugins. The Headphone EQ is for monitoring only so don't forget to bypass it when exporting your mix ;)
@@mixdownonline thank you!
Hello Chris, do I need to adjust the EQ manually inside Cubase to match? Or there is a way to import the data inside Cubase EQ?
Does it matter what eq or target you choose?
Tried this with my Audio technica ATH-M50x. Followed the chart exactly. Lost all the bottom end and low mids. Maybe it's how it's supposed to sound while mixing?
You don't want to use the Harman curve for professional monitoring or mix decisions. It's the preferred curve for home hifi, and fine for that use and checking result. You want your monitoring FLAT so EQ for that.
I will have to disagree with you on this. I work with the Harman curve for professional mixing and mastering work which is part of what I do for a living, and I'm not the only pro mix engineer who works with this. Actually, when you dig more into the research, the Harman Curve is apparently a "Flat" EQ curve, since it's simulating a flat frequency response from high quality speakers in a controlled environment.
@gkmixing wrote a couple of good comments here that is worth a read. You can also check Sean Olive's research who developed Harman Target. My video is a basic explanation and case study on my experience with the Harman Curve when mixing on Headphones, but there's more to learn on this topic :-)
@@mixdownonlineyou're right. The HC is representing how we hear. We have a peak around 2.5k or so because of human speech being in that range.
Hey, great video. Thanks man. One question. Where you apply the Eq on your DAW? On master channel, or?
If you put it on your master you will be printing/exporting with those EQ settings. You could put it at the very end of your whatever you have on there and turn it off before printing I suppose, though its easy to forget. Instead, you could set up a listen buss where you insert the EQ. You also can use the listen buss as a volume control without having to touch any other set faders or main volume outputs like on your audio interface or OS. This depends on the output routing options your DAW provides though, so you'll have to search for info on that.
I had been using corrective EQ for my dt880's for almost a year, but I've gone back to not using any. The corrected frequencies sounded off on almost every other device I tested on. It also caused phase issues and distortion in some cases. This and the fact that there are so many variables involved have me believe its a little bit of a waste of time.
The thing is that everyone's physiology is wildly different in various ways. Different head and ear shapes, -in and externally, all have a huge effect on sound perception.
Not one pair of headphones is made exactly the same either and then there's wear and tear on the pads, etc as well. On top of that, most headphones are made for a pleasant listening experience, but everyone perceives sound in a slightly different way. These headphones manufacturers and software engineers have to go and test on averages. Average data of averages taken from averages. Are you average? You may think you are, but probably not.
These EQ curves don't account for any of the above. And if you don't have any reference points like other headphones or anything else you probably shouldn't bother at all. Experience with critical listening in general, but more so on your particular pair of headphones also play huge a role. Knowing your headphones through and through and gaining the confidence from that is incredibly valuable.
I've come to believe a lot of the info around corrective EQ comes from the audiophile world, which is riddled with marketing, mis/disinformation and subjectivity due to the nature of the subject, the industry and what I described above.
But, if you'd really want to try corrective EQ, I'd say target a flat response curve and not Harmon as not every listening device has been calibrated to that. And you'd have to test it thoroughly. Try different EQ settings like corrective flat, Harmon, in between and none. Then print/export and listen to all those version on a bunch of different devices, take notes, see if it actually works for you. If it does, -or at least you think it does, well, good for you. Just remember that its incredibly difficult to stay objective while messing around with corrective EQ and you can't really recommend any of it to anybody.
Hey Chris do you do this both on the mix and master?
Every time I mix or master using headphones only, not speakers!
@@mixdownonline thanks
hi chris, what do you think about deervr mix?
Could you do a second video that goes into more depth with what your experience has been switching to the Harmon curve, what you listen for, how the experience might be different than using flat curve? Those sorts of things. This is a great video and I want to switch to using the Harmon curve, and so looking for any and all tips.
The Harman target curve is flat. The reason it appears not flat is because it's created with measurement rigs like G.R.A.S. that simulate human hearing, placed on a dummy head. You’ve probably heard of binaural recordings done with microphones shaped like a human head-this is essentially the same concept.
In measurements like this, the natural interaction of sound with the human body, head, and hearing system is captured, allowing us to see how "flat" sound is altered.
Sean Olive used a G.R.A.S. measurement rig to measure a set of flat speakers in a treated room. This measurement was then used as a reference for creating the Harman target curve. The curve was tested with both trained and untrained listeners to verify it.
There is a certain level of complexity when it comes to precisely measuring headphones, as it's hard to measure how headphones interact with humans. The closest tools we have for this are rigs like G.R.A.S. and B&K.
Other curves, like Diffuse Field and Free Field, are created in a similar manner. Sonarworks’ SoundID also used a similar approach to Harman to generate their own target curve. While there are other third-party target curves, they all follow the same general shape. The main differences are in the amount of low-end and high-end, though the overall methodology is similar, and their shapes are more alike than different.
The reason these target curves don’t look flat is that they show how human hearing changes the sound. That’s why there’s a compensation mechanism that removes the alterations caused by human hearing, which results in a flat line. For example, SoundID shows a compensated target curve, but their raw target curve is actually quite close to Harman (once you reverse-engineer it).
The thing is, humans figured out how to properly measure speakers, but when it comes to headphones, we’re still working on it. That’s what Harman research is about-Sean Olive is trying to figure out how to properly measure headphones and tune them for a flat sound. So, in short, the Harman target curve is flat, or at least aims to be. It may be confusing at first, but this strange, curved frequency response is just a byproduct of the measurement system. It’s actually flat!
Because many headphones have strange frequency response that doesn't comply with any targets, to properly tune your headphones, you will need to measure your specific set of headphones. Most people cannot do that (rigs are expensive), and that's why a lot of people use measurements done by somebody else. There will be a certain degree of error, and you might have too much high end, or not enough low end after you EQ your headphones, but that's sadly something we have to accept at the moment.
@@gkmixing Wow, that is very helpful, and thank you for taking the time to explains this. I watched quite a few of these Harmon explanations over the last few years, including Paul Third's but didn't understand what you just explained. That actually makes a ton of sense. Essentially the Harmon curve is trying to flatten out the frequency response by "fixing" or flattening out the changes to the sound our ears make, so we are actually hearing what flat sounds like, and not a colored version of flat. Very cool! I also appreciate your point that most of these Harmon like curves are basically about the same and we just need to tune it to what we like. I was a bit stressed about just how many options there are, but it's making more sense now. Again, thank you!
@@phadrus no problem! I too was very confused, so I'm trying to help out as much as I can, as it's a complex topic. : ) One correction, it's not really about "fixing" exactly, but Harman Target just shows that if you measure "flat" sound with a specific tool like G.R.A.S. rig, a flat frequency response will look a certain way (the shape of Harman Target), it's all strange looking, because that's how flat looks like through measurement tool like G.R.A.S. It is made in such a way to simulate how humans really hear the sound, it's not 100% accurate, but it's the best we've got. Basically, following the Harman Target will produce headphones with flat frequency response, it will just look weird on a graph.
Compensation I talked about is kind of just visual thing to show Harman Target as a flat line, but that's not that important really. For example, on AutoEQ website, the closer RAW frequency response of headphones to a blue line is (blue line representing Harman Target), the flatter such headphones are. :)
But there is a caveat with all this. Measurement tools are not perfect, that's why over the years Harman target was slightly adjusted, and it might be adjusted in the future. So, use it as a starting point, and don't be afraid to adjust it. :)
Thanks for your input, and the explanation of headphone measurements, and graphic curves, this is good stuff!
Not everyone agrees on the Harman Curve being "Flat" per say, not in the music mixing world anyways, that's probably why it's always evolving. What I know is that it's trying to emulate the flat sound of high quality speakers in a controlled room environment, but like you said, there's a certain degree of error. Same for the Sound ID target, is it really "Flat"? What I know is that it sounds "Duller" than the Harman curve even if it not worlds apart from Harman.
With that said, you probably know more about all of this than me :-) What I know is that my mixes translate better on most systems when I use the Harman Curves on my Headphones, whether this curve is "Flat" or not.
Thanks again for your input, mate!
@phadrus The best advice I can give you right now, is to take the time to listen to lots of reference music tracks using this curve before you start mixing with it. I would give the same advice if you were buying a new set of studio monitors, get to know them well before mixing with them :)
Thank you Chris for the excellent video. After doing and having the EQ preset (correcting EQ) , where do we put the EQ? At the master channel ? Pre or post ?
In the Cubase Pro Control Room Inserts to insert my EQ plugin for my headphones. If you don't have Cubase Pro, and you insert a Headphone EQ on your Master Out channel, don't forget to bypass it when exporting your mix ;)
Sorry if this was stated in the video and I missed it. Do you apply the EQ only to an output monitoring solution during mixing, or does the final mix print with the EQ being applied?
Thanks Chris. That’s new to me. I’m interested to know why you don’t get on with SoundID for headphones…?
I've never been a fan of the flat curve approach on headphones, sound too dull for me.
@@mixdownonline That makes sense. It's such a personal and intimate thing, the headphone environment. Didn't Andrew Schepps say he preferred to mix on the bass-heavy Sony MDR-7506 ... or am I misquoting him? In any event, it's how it translates that matters. Cheers for the quick response! 🙂
Beginner asking: when mixing I put this on my master bus as the last plugin?
I use the Cubase Pro Control Room Inserts to insert my EQ plugin for my headphones. If you don't have Cubase Pro, you can insert a Headphone EQ on your Master Out channel as the last plugin, just don't forget to bypass it when exporting your mix ;)
@@mixdownonline Thank you! I'll give it a try.
great video. where do you place the harman parametric eq in your mixing chain?
In the Cubase Pro Control Room Inserts to insert my EQ plugin for my headphones. If you don't have Cubase Pro, and you insert a Headphone EQ on your Master Out channel, don't forget to bypass it when exporting your mix ;)
@@mixdownonline i'll insert the harman eq after all other processing on master, then bypass when bouncing. i'm excited to try it!!!
Hi, great video but I am at the beginning of home recording and I am learning so there's something that I am missing: Where do I have to put the headphone EQ? on the master? and then? after the mix should I have to eliminate it? (I presume I will use it only to "judge" the mix). Correct? thanks
I use the Cubase Pro Control Room Inserts to insert my EQ plugin for my headphones. If you don't have Cubase Pro, you can insert a Headphone EQ on your Master Out channel, just don't forget to bypass it when exporting your mix ;)
@@mixdownonline thanks!
Where do you insert the EQ plugin ? For Cubase Pro (which I use) I presume it would be as an insert in the Control Room. That way it will not be « printed » in the final mix export. Am I right ?
Definitely in the Control Room! Thanks for watching!
Where would you insert the EQ in pro tools?
Thanks Chris! Do you manually set up the EQ from the results generated or somehow import them ?
I manually set it up in my EQ Plugin, and save that as a preset for the headphone I'm using :)
@@mixdownonline Thanks Chris. Not sure what 'peaking' means as an EQ but I'm sure I'll figure it out :)
Interesting video thanks. Not sure I would trust it though, I'm going to buy the Sony MDR-M1 headphones and be done with it, I still A/B with my monitors.
A blend of headphones, and studio monitors is always a good way to go!
@@mixdownonline True. Everyone listens on earbuds now, I should get some of those too!
EXCELLENT ❤, CHRIS, M A NUENDO 12 USER ND I'VE "HEADPHONES MATCH" BUILT IN, ANY COMPARISON ADVICE? THANKS IN ADVANCE ❤
Which camera r u using sir?
The Sony A7C with a G-Lens 20mm 1.8f
@@mixdownonline Oh thanks a lot! Great camera!
Might be a stupid question, but how do i apply the eq? do i just add it to the master? I'm new to mixing and i have the audeze mm-100's
Not a stupid question. I use the Cubase Pro Control Room Inserts to insert my EQ plugin for my headphones. If you don't have Cubase Pro, and you insert a Headphone EQ on your Master Out channel, don't forget to bypass it when exporting your mix ;)
Great Chis!, I also use the curve since a few months ago (when i saw Paul´s video), are you using it with your Verum One MK2? could you share me your corrections data? thx in advance
That's pretty cool! I have not used it with the Verum One MK2 yet. I found EQ settings for these headphones, but again, I'll to try it first before recommending those EQ settings. Send me an email info@mixdownonline.com so I can keep you posted on this one.
@@mixdownonline Done it thx again Chris!!
Thank you for this video! Since you own both headphones, the Sennheiser 490 Pro as well as the Austrian Audio x65, which one do you prefer, when you correct for the Harmann target, and which one if you (would) work without correction? Thanks alot, Chris!
Both are good headphones for mixing. I do prefer the 490 Pro with the mixing ear pads with and without Harman compared to the AU x65. I just get more depth, and detail with the 490. However, this is pretty subjective, and a matter of taste.
Hi, sorry I’m writing from Italy. Where should the EQ for headphones be set in Cubase? In the Control Room?
Yes, in the Control Room
I don't understand where to put the EQ in Cubase, you didn't explain that part, in the master bus, mix bus, in a channel, etc.
I added a note in the video description, and as a pinned comment. I insert the EQ in the Cubase Control Room, like in this video (before using Harman for my headphones) ruclips.net/video/yf1y7gfi1J8/видео.html
@@mixdownonline thanks,
I have q question please, Chris, do u combined Can Opener, with that Harman EQ Setting? While mixing with the Headphones
Yes I do, I insert Can Opener after my EQ
@@mixdownonline thank you reply Chris 🙏🏼👍🏼✌🏽
Do you just put the EQ on the master?
In Cubase Pro, I use the Control Room to insert my EQ Plugin. You can use the Master channel, but be careful not to forget to bypass it when exporting a mix ;)
Step up to Nuendo, they have the The headphone eq plugin, its better than all the rest on the market.
Doesn't cubase already have headphone match in it?
Pls make video the same for speakers 🎉
Where do you add the eq? On monitoring channel?
In the Cubase Control Room Inserts :)
@@mixdownonline I use Studio One, which will be the monitoring channel. Thx:)
I wonder. Are there any soundcards that can use curves for harman curve or room eq presets from other programs to eq the output? That seems like a better solutions that apps cause then you get all sound from the computer right and not just in the daw. I have looked around but I can not find any.
I'm gonna make a video on a cool App I use on my end, but I know that some RME audio interfaces have the ability to insert plugins on the outputs directly.
@@mixdownonline Yes, it seems like RME recently did add Room EQ, nice.
What do you think of the Impulse Response version you can download from AutoEQ?
I never tried it yet, but I think it's worth a try, however, not sure you can twaek the curve a bit to taste with IR
Really great video!! I've done the same that review of paul thirth is amazing but unfortunately it's not that Easy if you want to do it right you can't youse the pro EQ 3 want to do it accurate the neutral standerd q valua of a eq is 0.71 math matic so the eq qurve auto eq suggest is calculating with the neutral 0.71 standard but the pro EQ is not if the q valua is at. 1.0 thats Equal to a neutral 0.71 q valua so you neet a eq that's standard natural valua of 0.71 q otherwise you can't correctly match the Haram eq it's really complicated that's why use on the auto eq site the convolution eq that's Create a impulse response thats match exactly the Harman curve en than on the Master Channel I load a convolution reverb and loaded the impulse respond of the auto eq app en then its matching exactly the harman curve without the hassling of Knowing what of q valua your eq use
The workaround with the ProQ3 is to multiply the Q by 1.41, and you're good to go.
I didn't try the impulse response method yet, now I might want to ;)
@@mixdownonline nicee thanks for the tipp I didn't know yeah that impulse response is really the the most accurate Way it's really awesome
How did you come up with the corrective multiplicator for the pro Q?
Got that one from Mixing Engineer Emrah Celik
@@mixdownonline fair enough
But you had said that you can use MM-500 directly on mixing😅…
Yes I had said that, and since I started to EQ them based on the Harman Curve, I have a better mixing experience.
They don't reference a lot of Ollo headphones 😞
I hope someone help me because I´m getting awful results: I´m running the calibration for my Audio Technica M20x headphones. First the suggested preamp gain is -9,5 which is ridiculous, measuting lufs I ended up in -3,7. Then the high frecuencies are super loud, there is a suggested eq point at 4 khz of 7 db and another one at 5,4 khz of 6 db which are hurting my ears. SoundID makes a subtle correction which it´s ok but this is weird...
Edit: I could correct the harsh but the preamp gain difference is really strange, I corrected it manually and now it sounds nice.
Glad you made it work!
Can you send me the EQ settings specifically for the Audio Technica M20x?
In headphones everything sound loud
KUDOS:))
Oh Yeah!
AGK are better for mixing than most other headphones. even the cheap AGK semi open back are better thatn 900 dollare sennheisers.. i know this comment gonna make ppl disagree, but this is from my own experience and mix feedback from KJ of pendulum.. any time i mixed on my other headphones he says i'm losing out on high end.. Beyerdyamic am not a fan of either.. i will never use anything other than AGK at this point. i make multiple genres of music for video games.
❤
Mix on an IEM
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I'm so lost from the beginning...
Over time you'll start understanding more and more. I don't fully understand this either, but it had lots of useful info for the stage of my production journey I'm in now. Just keep producing and practicing. Another creator who is very good at articulating production tips is a channel called Make Pop music. Austin is a great teacher. Combined with this channel, you'll learn TONS both these guys are legit
Like @thelegacy_music wrote down, a step at a time!
@@mixdownonline I have terrible adhd, that was the best advice you could have given me. Though, i envy people who can just ddo it on the fly.
@@thelegacy_music Although i can't remember much, specially when there's a lot of info at once. I like to gather information from different videos, to sort of piece it together as one singular way.
Baamm
I have cheap audio technica at40 headphones, which of coarse are not on their list of headphones. Typical worthless crap unless you have spent big money. 😡
You can get a beyerdynamic DT-990 Pro for about 170 Euros. I wouldn't call that "big money" if you want to have decent mixes.
@@Fastvoice I am less than 30 American dollars from sleeping outdoors tomorrow. If this actually works, there is no reason they can't do a profile for the majority of us who truly are using the cheapest gear and want it to sound like it was the good stuff. 👌