Stop Recording Vocals Like This
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 2 май 2023
- ▶︎▶︎ Ultimate Recording Checklist: www.homestudiocorner.com/check...
*****
CONNECT WITH ME:
Instagram: / joegilder
Facebook: / joegildermusic
Twitter: / joegildermusic
Home Studio Corner: www.homestudiocorner.com
Music: www.joegildermusic.com
#Mixing #HomeStudioCorner 
Видеоклипы
![BETA SQUAD vs AMP FOOTBALL MATCH [OFFICIAL STREAM]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ChEmvP52p0U/mqdefault.jpg)
▶︎▶︎ Ultimate Recording Checklist: www.homestudiocorner.com/checklist
I tried the link and it's not emailing me anything. Nothing in the spam folder either. Tried a different email address just in case and same thing. Kept refreshing the email page just in case to no avail. Unless it takes more than 15 minutes to send but I figured it was automated. Please test it on your end. Thanks
Yea the third is the easiest especially for rappers that can’t sustain their presence long. Definitely for singers though. I kind of do a mix of 2 & 3 because I usually like the artist to sing or rap a little before they messed up and piece that in and I basically stitch it all together and it sound like one take 😂😂.
@@cameronasberry9017Vk
Are These Open headphones?
If I had a voice like Joe's I'd never stop singing. When I sing my wife goes to the neighbors so they will know she's not stabbing me and call the police. 😁
😂
Well done, well done
Jajajajaj
Your neighbor to your wife: "When did you get a cat and what's wrong with it?"
@@herbie_the_hillbillie_goat lol
Being able to punch in and out in DAWs makes recording vocals a TON of fun! No need for lengthy takes, just sing until you mess up and punch in from there. It's a blast, but make sure you're maintaining input consistency or the edits will be tough to mix cleanly.
Im still learning and wanna try this, punching, do you guys keep or delete the layertrack "beneath" the 2. Or 3. Of each punch Take?
@@Mr.J.a.y.m.s Assuming you're using a good DAW: If I'm not sure I want to delete an edit I just clip it and drag it past the end of the song so it's out of the way but 99% of time I'm deleting it or just shortening the last take to where I want to resume from.
It usually works well for me and certainly for keeping continuity. Still feels right sometimes to go on a mission and follow the arc of the song with a purpose. Harder for sure, and the bigger problem is that doing it that way will likely lead to some songs being abandoned due to entire take sifting burnout😂
This implies that vocalists will sing the same volume and distance from the mic lol. I always tell people “for this mic, this distance from the pop filter, etc” and yet they still manage to move all over the place…..
@@tallmccartneymusic , I am pretty sure you have tried this, but maybe it is still worth noting that one thing that does help me is to have a good chunk of trailer phrase to sing along to, to do a couple or more runs getting used to the dynamics, tone, mouth placement etc. In any case, rather than punching in on the actual track, I create duplicate track(s) for the punch in part, slice out the offending chunk on the original, and when I get the perfect feel, timing, technical stuff on the “punch-in” part, I just move it back up into place on the (non-destructively) sliced original vocal track and mess around with the cross fades. It is easy for me, because I have done with my own vocal parts a gazillion times, but I find the less experienced singers get it with a little guidance and patience.
I gotta say, I used to record tons of people and I did this, but it didn't get as good results. Likely that was partly because the vocalists weren't as good. But I've found I get the best takes out of vocalists by intentionally not interrupting them and giving them as little feedback as possible. The more I've tracked artists, the more I've leaned into giving them very little input because it brings them out of the emotion of the song and caught up with technique. Just my experience as an artist, engineer, and producer. I do understand this method tho, and perhaps I'll give it a try again.
Maybe it depends on the singer’s level…this video might be more oriented towards people who are relatively new to singing or recording, and therefore they have a lot more room for improvement technique wise than probably the artists you have been recording, who meanwhile can instead focus more on channeling emotions to take it an extra mile or two
I take the same approach with vocalists but my reason is because they're extremely self conscious and everything feels like a criticism. I remember one singer repeatedly giving a perfunctory "I'm not a trained singer" before almost every take, it's painful to watch people who lack confidence in these settings.
As a artist and now recording my own music I can’t tell you how true this is!
I'm glad you mentioned preserving the emotion...to me, that's way more important than sonic perfection.
Excellent advice Griffin
This is so timely. After recording at home for decades, I came to this conclusion myself in exactly the way you describe. The entire vocal several times, then divided up, then finally I thought no... I'm not moving on to the next verse until I have a great take. It came naturally, but I also realized I just couldn't do the endless searching through track after track anymore. It feels like a weight has been removed, as "the vocals" had become something to be dreaded more than something to really look forward to, which I think they should be. The vocals are the song after all, and it should be more of a magical time than an editing nightmare for the next day or two or three. I highly recommend this approach to anyone. Free yourself! Thank you for this!
lol same here!!!
Yeah same I started doing this a few months ago after years of doing it the other way.
Likewise. Resist the urge to blow through it all and do not move on until each part is nailed.
My approach is to tell the artist from the get go, that we will record the song twice on different days. First I record the "Demo" where the singer is just making the first tries of everything - I focus on the melody and that the take is clear to understand what's going on. Then I'm working again on a arangement of the song, thinking about the parts where I'd use some backing vocals and all that stuff, while the singer is listening to what is recorded and is working on what to improve on. Then when we're on another session the singer is prepared to make a one take and we end up with the very best.
I wanna get to this level
@@wellDamnJamz not Sure if it’s a matter of “level” or just a workflow that fits You and Your approach :) do what You feel is best for You
This has always been the way I try to do it! It works very well to focus the artist and get them to do the work you would have to do yourself or fight with them to do in real time. Convincing a singer that they're breathing wrong/flat/making weird sounds in real time can sometimes not be ideal or totally impossible depending on the personality type. A singer that believes they can do no wrong in a session will usually come back later "with their own improvements" if given the chance. I feel like most people are adjustable when given a chance to reflect this way. That is, if they're responsible, and driven toward the best results.
@@cropcircle5693 also being a singer helps :) im always trying to give my Feedback if I know how to help improve The performance. I never met anyone who would resist to at least try my advice.
That's a good idea
I'll try that way out
It sounds like a good way to get more songs done in a day
According to the members of Oasis, they would limit their recording to 3 takes, and if they failed, they'd just record another time. I really like this because it forces you to practice well and be ready on the day of recording.
Also, as a rapper, I personally try to nail it in a single take and hopefully the first or second try. And 9 times out of 10 the first complete take works the best for me. Even if there are some "mistakes" I leave them in because the overall vibe is what's most important to me.
Of course, if I missed a word in an otherwise awesome take, I would punch it to just correct that, but that happens rarely.
That being said, great video and I loved hearing your approach to this!
1st take is where it's at, yes! I fully believe in that! I personally have recorded 5 solo albums like that, 52 pieces full of guitars, vibraphone, Rhodes, Piano, static, synth and all 1st takes, be it 4 tracks or 16, depending on how much a particular piece needed. It hit me, usually during the late, late night, when everyone around me was asleep, i would check levels and hit record. A few hours later the piece was ready.
I know that is a very unique way and completely different than recording pre existing songs/material, but still, the 1st take is special.
PS: only downside, haha, i was recording with headphones, convinced my speakers were off, when i looked up and saw my mother standing in my door yelling at me to turn the damn music down, haha....that was over 20 years ago, i still see her standing there, hehe!
@@lowandodor1150 haha, yeah man that first one is special. I've even stopped recording a practice take on my phone. I would do that to get a "first look" at how I'd sound. But then, when recording on my microphone, I'd often notice that phone take was kinda better, haha. So, now I just practice and then go straight to my setup.
they should have re recorded all of it -inc the songwriting lol
When I went to college for music production. My mentor constantly told me stories of how the talent would want another take, but it would sound much worse, and my mentor would instead just play them the 1st or 2nd take.
Limiting yourself is important, it removes the feeling of needing to be perfect
There were some acts that had reputations for hitting it on the first takes (eg The Carpenters, The Osmonds), as they were ready to put it down and were that good. Interestingly, they- not the engineers -would see room for their own improvement(s).
It’s a high risk technique to employ as mixer you have to think about engineering the track and identify good takes in the moment which could leave you without enough backup takes when you listen back a day later and realise that take you thought sounded great (so didn’t get any more takes)is actually not so great or there’s some unwanted noises or glitches in the audio. The other thing is dropping in vocalists to fix phrases often results in different tonalities and energy that is difficult to mix. The vocal is the most important part of a track I think you need multiple takes to work with. My preference is to get five takes but mentally note the best full take then use that as the master and drop in bits from other takes where needed. No need to audition every take for every section.
This is what I came here to say. You don't even have to "mentally" do this. Just highlight the lane/playlist with the take that the singer likes the best, and ONLY where phrases don't land right do you either check other takes that you already have or punch in.
Also sometimes the first take is the best and overwriting over it is kinda counterproductive
I think his method is great if you record one take (warm-up or first) and then go over it and record second track but fixing the mistakey or unwanted parts
But i've yet to record vocals at all
Usually do a "scratch" tak to warm up, it is mostly either sloppy or too uptight and mostly trash but it has some great small impefect pieces, then do 2-3 solid fulls , listen and identify "the main one". And then do 'just one more to be save". This one is usually the best and magic one as there is no pressure for the singer, as we have already identified "the main". Then I quickly comp from the best solid. If there is still any stuff to fix I'll punch in. But usually 1 sloppy, ,2-3 solid and one "free" does the trick if it is rehearsed. I will still keep all takes for later. But i try to get the vocals "done" until the end of the session.
As a vocalist, and someone who does there own mixing and producing, the punching in and fixing works best for me. It’s exhaustive work to sing 5 takes of a line, and then you have to tune and then you have to mix. It’s kind of the same way with learning music, it’s a not the best to practice a part till you mess up and then start from the beginning. Better to break the messed up part down and then move on. Ever since I started doing punch ins I have gotten better recordings, might be different for other people though
@@deadwrestler I agree, but when I meant exhaustive is that you mentally tax yourself out, without even knowing it. Music is fun and pinpoint fixing things is engaging to a detriment. In my head I can sing something 20 times and be like this is getting better, and than take a break come back and be like this got worse and worse. My output has increased significantly switching from the do the takes until it happens thing. It all depends on what makes you happy though, creating music is very personable and what works for people varies. I went to music school, so I know what it feels like to bash your head on a piece of art for 5-8 hrs a day in pursuit of the perfect performance, I just also believe in the law of diminishing returns.
Joe's method 3 is pretty much the only way I have ever recorded vocals. The only slight difference is that we usually record a scratch vocal, singing through the whole song for reference to song sections. Then we tend to do method 3 section by section.
That's interesting. I feel like I just understand how I want the vocals to be once I try singing them with no interruptions, so by recording the whole song and keeping it as a reference seems like a good way to apply this method.
I'll do a scratch take, midi out the notes being hit so i have a good ear reference and then sing along to the midi. i consistently get really good takes (from myself) like this after a couple practice run throughs.
The best thing about home studio recording tutorials on RUclips is the variety of approaches and techniques. Love ya, Bro-Joe.
When I watched La Bamba as a kid, seeing how Ritchie recorded in studio had always stuck with me. Years later when I started getting into recording workstations, that style of recording has always been my method, which reminds me of exactly how you describe here.
Reason why I did it this way was because at the start, the only software I used (and could afford to log my ideas) was windows movie maker, and so I would have to do everything in one take and I would spend hours and hours practicing until I got it right. What made it rough for me at the time was that I was really into prog metal, and so I felt like a good song wasn't good unless it was over 5 minutes long, sometimes around 10 minutes. Using the method you described made life so much easier. The good thing about doing everything in take is that the imperfections is what made it unique and that I got really good at memorizing and performing entire songs. Listening back to the grainy and horribly recorded songs, I can easily remember the feeling I felt when I recorded something, and many times it brings me back to a place in my creativity where I can see things and people, and recollect things I had forgotten about.
Very interesting and original comment!! BTW I've seen the La Bamba movie, but don't remember "how Ritchie recorded in studio", can you remind us? I guess he was using the "punch-in" technique"?
I personally like the "punching in" method. It's way more efficient & less time consuming then 5 diff takes. Bc you're able to clean up, as you go. Then stack your vocals on notes & words that you want to stand out. But whatever works for you as a vocalist. Different methods are ok, long as you created a fire song! Continue to do that thing that works for you.
I went to the studio for the first time in January to record two songs, The engineer told me to sing the whole song 5 times and then sing the verses again three times and the chorus. When i got the mastered versions of the songs back lets just say i was very disappointed, i have a set up at home with just a mic and a audio interface and i found my records were way better, it seems he didn't put no effects on it or anything. i've started to learn how to mix and master better, which i've learned from your videos. Keep up the good work Joe.
That sucks. Good thing you're learning instead of relying on them
Good point, thing is our consumer grade audio equipment is close enough to studio grade equipment these days so can hardly tell the difference in that sense.
Yes omg! , I've wasted sm money at studio sessions. I feel like it's best to learn on your own and let a team come find you
Having immediate feedback and deliver quickly something functional.
You are following an "Agile" way of working, which is a current challenge for many big companies in general (not related to music) and who struggle to achieve.
You should give conferences to companies directors!!
Thank you so much for this 💖
Joe, I record multiple takes like example 1 but I don't review each take. I go - maybe five takes, until I am warmed up and get one that feels good, then I only look for segments of the earlier takes if there is something wobbly I might have done better earlier. I make sure all takes are under identical circumstances- always the same day.
Thanks for the invaluable checklist. You are a hero.
Man, I‘m so happy you‘re promoting this technique. I started working in Studios 1996, SSL console, tapemachine… that era. And for obvious reasons this was our main way of recording. Sometimes we dropped in and out only for a syllable or two to get it right. It‘s also a closer and more involved work with the singer.
I‘m not one of these „back in the days everything was better“ guys… I wouldn‘t want to go back to the limited technical options we had, but this kind of recording I‘d still prefer. The whole „get the recording right“ instead of relying on fixing it digitally…
I usually do a combination your first two approaches. We do one (or two at most) full takes, sit in the room with the singer and decide what we like and don't like, then go punch those specific spots that we want to tidy up
Yep, my favorite approach as well. Have a bigger picture, then perfect the details in retrospect.
Wow, thank you so much for this. I despise vocal editing, but I’m not a great enough singer to nail it in a couple of takes. It’s the biggest source of procrastination in music for me, and even extends into background vocals and guitar. This is a great way to make decisions immediately without getting too out of the zone.
There’s also more intention behind punch-in takes, instead of focusing on the whole part and hoping for the best
Same
This is exactly how I record my own vocals. Works a treat and I know exactly what is a bad take right away, and I can just fix everything on the fly. I end up with a good single track fast. A few months ago I recorded a singer and he insisted on the 5 takes approach because he 'couldn't get into it' if we were doing it phrase by phrase.. He made the same mistakes every time and I had to comp together a heap of stuff to get a usable take, and spent ages doing it... and he disliked all of it. In the end, he just ended up redoing an even worse version in his own studio!
Your favorite way is exactly how I've been recording myself from the jump. I love this method too! Agree with everything you said 🔥🔥🔥
I'm new to home recording and glad I found your channel. I've been scouring RUclips for instructional videos and so far your style is my favourite. I suspect I'll signing up for one of your courses. Thank you for the clear and concise explanations.
Great Advise! I’ve also found that if you record multiple takes for each section of the song start to finish, you can end up sounding like Joe Cocker (and that’s ok) by the last chorus and it’s hard to match all the others tone wise.
Everytime Joe uploads a video titled "Don't do this like that", I already know I'm doing it wrong...
This is so useful! It keeps the process flowing with less burnout. Now I just need to practice and get better "punching in". Back to the recording class. Thanks Joe!
This might sound very random, but many years ago I was subscribed to your newsletter about home recording. I learned so much from that and still have a lot of those emails in a separate folder. I was looking up a couple of videos on home recording equipment and tips and I stumbled upon you again after so many years. Great to see you're on here! And coincidentally, my approach to recording vocals is pretty much the same as yours.
this is the thing, sing it well once, then listen and make choices about how things worked or didn't. The key to it is listening and figuring out how what in your head translated, because vocals are a performance but also a creative aspect, and you don't know what works until you actually hear it. So listen after the first take that's a keeper.
I use all three methods. I'll usually tackle sections at a time, record 2-3 takes to get warmed up and then get a solid 2-3 takes after the warmup and choose the best one as the main take. Then i'll either find a better line from an alternate, or punch in if there are no better lines. it's quick and easy.
I agree it can be exhausting and drive you nuts going through it over and over.. great video!
THANK YOU!!! I appreciate you joe!! I also got my checklist as well!
Approach 3 is how I’ve done things from the start when producing my own tunes! It’s fast, easy, and efficient. I wish I could convince vocalists to do this more often, spending hours and hours on ONLY lead vocals for one song is not a vibe….
Great video Joe! It's worth mentioning although I hope it's common sense to do a thorough vocal warm up, stay plenty hydrated and remember to take breaks often... doing 5 takes IMO is too many, leave it down to 3 at most. If you can't get a good comp by 3 then doing 2 more won't really help you. Mixing will always take much longer than the vocal takes but obviously focus on delivering that perfect performance each time and a lot of the comping work becomes simpler. For me comping each part of the song often comes across lacking emotion and unnatural. What ever sounds good, is good though. Have fun and stay healthy singers
This is a gem 💎 thanks for sharing your techniques! Really helping the community with this streamlined approach to sessions!
Great video! - the limitless options of digital made us afraid to commit to a performance and usually lose the authentic emotion and dynamics.
Option 3 is the way we used to do it with tape and there were 2 other golden things from that approach (beyond the sound of tape):
1 - imperfections and happy accidents that on repeated listens grow to become your favourite part of the take
2 - red light adrenaline - knowing you were over-writing the last take and likely recording 'THE take' seemed to encourage a little more magic to come out - sing it like you really mean it
I'm going back to the tape mindset - thanks!
I’d be the devils advocate and say that some artists would feel like it kills the vibe to have you doing production stuff during a recording session, but it would make it easier on the engineer/producer. I also feel like part of my job as an engineer is to preserve the energy of the artist to get the best performance and to me, that means making them wait as little as possible for me to perform engineering/producing tasks.
I saw a documentary with Stephen Tyler in the studio, and he took your third way a bit further. He would sing each line once, tell the sound guy to play it back, and only once he was happy with it did he go on to the next. Elton John may despise working that way, but Tyler's no slouch. Don't be shy about making sure it's right.
Yes, it's called "punching in" & it's way more efficient & less time consuming then 5 diff takes. Bc you're able to clean up, as you go. Then stack your vocals on notes & words that you want to stand out. But whatever works for you as a vocalist. Different methods are ok, long as you created a fire song! Continue to do that thing that works for you.
Very efficient work flow Joe! going to implement this into my sessions!
Ive never utilized the layer system like that in method 1. Wow. So much more useful than creating individual tracks for each take. Thanks, Joe!
This is exactly how my songwriting partner and I record vocals as well. It really allows you to pay attention to nuance, rather than getting caught up in having to nail the song as a whole.
It’s a method we’ve used for decades (yes, before digital). I will say though, I have found that it works better for singers that have experience in a studio. For newbies, it can seem a bit choppy and may be difficult to get back into the groove as they’re used to just singing the whole song.
The "punch in" technique you describe is actually what I do with my instrumental tracks. It's so much easier to record one solid playthrough and then just go back and spot record over rough patches with a pre-roll. The playlist feature is a neat thing to have, but you're absolutely right in that I find myself just putting in a lot more work every time I try making use of it.
I’ve always done it this way. Having a full breath for every vocal line puts such power in the song. I’ll also use the extra takes for effects tracks.
Combination of all 3 for me.
As much as I'd prefer to exclusively use method 3, I will always get a few full vocal takes that I use to understand exactly what the singer is naturally doing in certain sections, as some singers sing completely differently when they sing the song in sections! It's like they don't actually know how to sing the song unless it's from start to finish (which kind of makes sense) and breaking it up can often take longer than sifting through the full takes. The full takes can sometimes be the best takes too.
Worst I had was sifting through 106 different vocal takes to ultimately use the first take we did.. I literally wanted to die! 😅
It's - unlike your other vids and ideas - an unsmart idea that I'd never go with. Here's why: If you do sing through the whole song at once in several takes you might suddenly come up with a phrasing of the melody that you'd never sung before. A whole new idea that makes the whole song just THAT much better - and might even give it a special something, even if it was just one note sung differently. This is the magic that can happen in the studio during recording. You're cutting yourself off of this great unique chance by just focusing on time efficiency. I'd rather focus on quality every time. And I think time is for most things in life the most important ingredient of them all. :) And I am convinced that music is not mathematics where you'll have a definitive right or wrong. So allow yourself for the unexpected to happen, even if it only happens once ever so often. It is always worth the time. 😊
Wasn't expecting a lot for some reason..this just popped up but I am glad I watched it all. Changing the way I record from now on. Thanks and good video.
This is reassuring because it is my usual approach already! I thought maybe I was weird sitting and studying takes as I record them, but like you say, it’s ensuring one solid take is ready to go and you don’t have to debate yourself later over which takes were best. It makes you think in terms of overall production as you capture one element
Reminds me of recording with my first band in the late 90’s. We had to be SOLID, because we were lucky to get two takes in a pro studio, since we were on the clock and fronting the bill. $1000/day back then. You talk about your voice being tired - tracking a ten song album in one day was tough! We were definitely good at discerning what sounded human and what sounded bad. And sometimes, you just had to let stuff go. And editing? Yeah right, you better just get it right kid! Lol
Ya, at $100/hr, you didn't screw around picking things out in the mixing room!
Fun fact: I recorded a new song of mine, using the very first take. It was there as a demo track, but many many takes later I realized the first one was the most natural one. Damn!
That happens a lot.
Bruce Swedien and Michael Jackson allegedly attempted 91 different mixes of "Billie Jean." The version we all know is mix #2.
Great video. This was the perfect time for this to be recommended to me. You earned another subscriber.
I really appreciate the way you broke things down in this video. One of the things I always struggle with when getting into something new is wrapping my head around what work-flow can look like. Obviously everyone is going to do thing differently, but not all content creators do a good job of demonstrating their process.
I love how you started singing on your way before punching in a new take as it plays back. A lot of new artists usually wait until that specific phrase is needed and don’t understand that it will sound less natural. I always suggest to sing along as I capture what we intend to record.
This guys knows it 👌
“Just because you have 5 takes doesn’t mean you have a good one in there”
*flashbacks to my early days*
Great video! I totally agree with your approach to this in most situations. What I think I would add, would be to stress the idea of recording all verses at once, then all choruses at once, the breaks and backups after. Mic placement and the vocalist's attitude (among many other things) can change greatly from verse to chorus and back. Recording their “sound” as standalone sections is not only important for work flow, but it adds continuity for the feeling of the song as a whole.
The second thing is: while I love destructive recording, is there maybe a way to back up the original take in case you simply don't get a better take?
It was great to realize that my approach is not that far off from yours. It was a doozy finding a workflow with recording vocals, but I guess it just gets easier with time. Then you can focus solely on your creativity.
Oh this is incredible! It seems like a really simple and right way. If you're someone who records, mixes and produces your own songs. It's really tiring to work on dozens of vocal tracks on top of all that. Maybe this is the best solution and I will try it as soon as possible!
I also want to ask something. Usually the first quick demo recording I get for a song (when I'm getting the idea of the song) sounds more natural and pleasant than the professional recordings I get for some reason. What do you think is the reason for this and how can I solve it?
I think it’s the pressure to get it perfect, when you’re not overthinking it comes out better cause it Happens to me always
@@WallyHoakThis. It’s also possible you got attached to and used to the demo version, and any deviation seems wrong.
A new song is a live free entity. It has no history to keep it on a set path.
Ive tried to recreate the first recording of a new song and FAIL EVERY TIME!!
Dont sweat over it. To many factors to replicate. We as humans are continually evolving too so NEVER the same every day.
Just allow the new recording to have a life of its own making.
Relax and enjoy.
Now ive got to get back to bending a recording to my will 😠
😂🤣
That is so true also in my case! I sometimes listen to first demo recordings I made on the old phone answer machine or on the cell-phone, just add a bit of global delay to them, and there's something interesting in there that I sadly don't see replicated in the "produced" version... some kind of a subtle contained-but-felt excitement...
The beautiful thing is, you do this long enough and you get better and good enough that you won't need to comp or do much in the mix. And you'll be a better producer too. The trick is to just work more than you drink.
😂😂
I will never do methods 1 and 2 again. Just did a mix of those methods for a friend's EP and the amount of work to comp was crazy, but the thing that hurt the most was I fell to the temptation to stop active listening while he and his singers were recording. Sooooo, I didn't catch what needed fixing before they were gone. When all the takes have the same problem you're left with a much harder fix. Great stuff, Joe!
What I like about the 3rd approach is that you have a solid take to reference and match. Stops you from having to comp together 5 takes for a verse that don't match at all expression-wise.
I guess the extent of takes depends on the person. For me personally, I am not an amazing vocalist so I feel I need to track various layers and really take the time comping the best sections. It can often take 6 or 7 takes of a verse to feel warmed up. Unfortunately not all of us are Jonny Craig
I think singers sometimes feel like there needs to be vocal magic in every bar, but what there actually needs to be is continuity in the phrasing and storytelling of each verse. And they don't understand, you pretty much lose that as soon as you comp 5 different takes.
With your method, you're gonna end up with a performance of the song, not 60 separate vocal samples, and that's a much better way to go.
It really depends. I've worked with a singer who was so absolutely exact on every take that, when it came to double-tracking, you could barely tell. I had to ask her to change her approach a little so the different layers would be different enough that they'd sound multilayered. I've found sometimes if it's a relaxed melody for you to sing, you'll do it very similarly every time. If it's more expressive, and you might be trying a different thing every time, then… yeah.
I started doing this more on guitar as well. I’ll focus on nailing the rhythm parts, first, then punch in the fills after. Keeps it simple, fun, and helps combat ear fatigue…or just getting tired of the song.
Great advise!!! Just getting into recording music and appreciate your videos
I reeeeeally like how time-efficient this is and it's also absolutely true, you can have 50 takes and still make the same "mistake", BUT my problem with this new approach is: I record my vocals standing up and do the editing sitting down (at my desk). And every time I would sit down and stand up again the slight change in angle or distance to the mic makes it sound slightly (but still too) different... 🤔🤔
Try putting markings or something that would identify how far away to stand or have your face. To try and mimick the same position/angle every time. It's easier said than done but it's something that can help.
Got my motorized sit-stand-desk for 200 bucks off Amazon because I suffered from the same thing, helps me a lot
@@michaelandersonfinance Nice idea!!
#3 is the way I like to fix a vocal track.
I find the first take I do is usually fresh and relaxed and usually winds up being the take I keep.
But then I have to go back and fix mistakes or timing issues is a section. I'll have a second track set up and then record the bad take over and then cut and paste the new fixed version. I always do a bar or two ahead of the bad section to get back in the flow.
If you try to just punch it in right away, it never works for me.
Sometimes by the end, I have enough sections copied and pasted it looks like building blocks in a track lol
Singing a track over and over makes it lose something, that relaxed feeling, and while it might sound perfect, I think it loses a bit of the magic.
Thanks Joe, it's nice to know I've been unknowingly doing it right(at least verified it's another way to do it).
Hey !!! .. love the last approach ... Saves a ton of time, energy and does not break the rhythm of the whole thing. Agile recording technique.. fail early fail fast ensures quick progress ❤❤❤
There are SO many tips I've learned from you, but this is WAY at the top of the list. I've started doing this and it's amazing. Thanks Joe!!!
OK, I'm old and started recording on tape. I always do full vocal takes with the idea that it's a keeper take. The only difference since the computer age is I often record a safety take, or maybe 2 in case there's something weird and unforseen that comes up after the tracking is done or I just want another option. I would nevr record 5 takes of ANYthing with the idea that I would come back and Frankenstein the thing together at a later date.If you're working on your own, without a producer or engineer or other bandmates in a control room to give you feedback, it's better to give yourself options, but you should NEVER approach ANY take as if it wasn't the keeper. That's a recipe for soulless, paint-by-number music that no one will ever connect to.
I honestly had no idea that people who were raised on digital recording used the DAW as a crutch in this way. SIng the song!!! Don't try and make life easy on yourself. Rock isn't easy!
You still gotta get your edits done while the singer's there. All the decisions have to be right, no options. No sub
You've been a huge help! Thank you for sharing your knowledge!
Thanks for the tip Joe. I use the third approach. Sometimes I'll only have lyric outlines and will work a melody and words as I do each section. I personally like the random stuff that happens when I'm working, and will fine tune as I go. I've got a short attention span and sometimes change melodies, or try to articulate the words in interesting ways from verse to verse, although I try to keep a consistency with the choruses. As a note, when singing my tunes just me and guitar, I always sing them a little different. There is definitely nothing like being in the moment, and recording is about capturing that moment. Cheers.
Great insight. Because of my ridiculous computer fan noises i switched to a seperate audio recorder to get the job done which prevents me from that technique, but i will look into it again
Great workflow! Thanks Joe!
This is by far the best way to record. From vocals (lead or backing) to any instrument. Keep inspiration and fun flowing, work quickly through the song, capture the atmosphere of the moment. If you don't like the track in the end or three days later you simply have to redo it. And I usually do not keep more than one back up take for surgical editing if needed. In the end I may end up with a couple of slightly different but finished versions of the track. Some may even be "pre production" tracks and it has happened that I wanted to use it as the final one. Training makes you better 🙂
that's exactly how I do it. Then I listen to it in the car when going home , turn around , speed back to my recording joint, and record again!
Joe, ya NEVER CEASE TO AMAZE ME man.... This is a GREAT idea to use,and a VERY INFORMATIVE video yet again !!! Keep em Coming !!!
Thanks for sharing! So much better. I get such ear fatigue listening over and over, and drift off and can't remember what I have already listened to... 🤦🏻♀️
the last way you you recommended is the best and it is the old when I did it in on 2" tape. Ir was studio standard and you never go against studio standard. Good video. Thanks for reaffirming my way of doing vocals. Cheers B
Absolutely correct! The most tedious and time-consuming part for me is choosing the most appropriate parts from all the takes sung. I'll try to apply this method on the next recording of a vocalist in my studio. 👍
Great advice, I’ll be trying that on this evenings recording session!
Great video!!! it's really effective technique🖤
I used to do this when we had Adat tape. And I still do it today. Great video, thanks, man.
I like Joe on studio one he’s cool as he never judge’s and he’s always very polite and is always really helpful 💯👍✌️😎
Great video! I've used all of these methods and I think this nails the pros and cons of each. However, I also think this is one of those matters that really leans heavily on personal preference and workflow style, as well as the type of vocalist you're working with. That being said, what I've ended up with after 20 years of home and studio recording/production is essentially a blend of all three of the methods mentioned here. It goes something like this:
Preface to say, this requires that you pay close attention while going through the first two steps to note if there were any parts that just didn't feel right as well as parts that nailed it. I make mental notes, but if it helps to make notes on a notepad as you're going through, do that. I also prefer to move the parts that don't sound horrible to the main track, which is important for step 3. It's a "scratch" comp of sorts.
1. Record two (or three, if necessary) takes of the entire song so that the vocalist can get their bearings. In my experience, the first take is always a bit weak and usually comes with monitor mix nitpicks from the vocalist to get sorted out, but my rule of thumb for recording longer takes is never to throw anything out, because there might be something good in it that could potentially be used (Yes, I've been able to use ONE tiny chunk from one of these to salvage a comp before.)
2. Once the vocalist gets their confidence and is comfortable with their monitor mix I do a few takes of each section. Some vocalists prefer to do verses first and then move to choruses, so it doesn't have to be successive in nature. If choruses don't have many changes, you can get away with recording a couple takes of each and fly parts around between choruses, if that's your style, and save energy for the last chorus or a bridge, which tend to have more variance and 'belty' parts.
3. At this point, it's a good idea to let the vocalist take a little break. I use that time to build a better scratch comp. Once it's time to start again, using that scratch comp as a base, now I go through and nitpick specific pieces that I didn't feel were great or that the singer wants to revisit. This is also the step where I switch to 'vocal producing' mode and get a little more encouraging (with a dash of strictness 😉) with the vocalist to bring out their potential on parts that are 'passable' but could be 'great'. This is also a good time to record any alternate takes that may have popped into my mind while going through the previous takes or to let the vocalist play around and have fun with parts they want to experiment with.
So, what I end up with at the end of the session is a fairly close to final comp! So, why not just do like Joe and use step three exclusively? Goes back to preference and workflow. I always like to have something to fall back to just in case something sticks out or sounds funny when I listen to the vocal track by itself. Inevitably, there are always clicks, spit pops, background noises, puffy 'P's, farty 'F's and all sorts of unexplainable anomalies that make their way into the tracks, and sometimes they are bold enough to come through the mix. There's also the matter of the performance and the 'texture' and feel of a take. I may think it sounds good when recording, but when I listen back, something about one or two parts doesn't mesh well with the surrounding parts. So in these cases, I have a good bed of material to sort through and find what I need for just the parts I need to deal with. This eliminates the need to spend hours combing though 15 takes of the same phrase to build out a comp, but still gives you options if you need them.
So, maybe your workflow is best tailored to using just one of these, but I would personally recommend the hybrid approach (you can even skip step 1 or 2 if you have a skilled vocalist that knows how to 'self produce'!) so that you have some extra material if you need it.
That third way is the only way I’ve known to record my (rap) vocals. I want the line to be the way I want it before I move on to the next line. Less to do later. I was nervous to hear your 3 ways as I’m amateurish with vocals so I was hoping I wasn’t making it harder on myself but nice to hear I’ve been making it easier on myself ha. Great vid.
total gamechanger, thank you so much! no idea why i've never tried doing it like this. I always end up with too many takes and still somehow none of them are right - even recording myself at home, it's still hard to get back into the zone to rerecord days later if I'm editing (street noise / neighbors / taking time to do my warmups etc); I'm so excited to try this. thank you!
also your voice is beautiful!
Man I love this approach! Thank you very much!
Thanks for the amazing content!! Do you think it’s better to record without plugins and use them after getting a good take?
Great stuff. I do that pretty much for every instrument. Takes are good enough, move on and then I have less tracks to deal with , less work at mixing etc. Thanks for a great video and approach
Great tip! Definitely gonna try this soon
What you’re basically doing is going back to pre digital days when decisions had to be made going to tape. I still work like this myself! Chopping up each track with excessive punching in tends to ruin the feeling for me. So I generally get a line or two of a verse recorded in one take. Once in a while I’ll later hear something I don’t like in a chorus and will copy and paste a word or two from a better chorus. I don’t like doing it as if feels like cheating somehow, but it’s often more effective than resigning on a different day. Great video!
Ive used this approach for a while! Good stuff!
yep, I've evolved into this approach as well. Makes a ton of sense to me. BTW, "comping" a track is short for a *composite* track. At least that's what I learned a couple of decades ago. Thanks for your channel, its very helpful.
That is really great advice. Love it. Thank you!!
This is what I do and it moves quick and smooth. Thanks for the demo.
Great video. I like your thinking!
I started rapping at 13 in studios. The only studio around my small town was an hour away and it was an old rock and roll engineer. He did the first method. I made it there two weeks and found another guy with hip hop experience. He did the second method and third blended a little. By the time I was 14, my brother and I had our own studio. I have used the 3rd method for 20 years now. I do a verse, listen to it, do it over and listen again to both to compare. I may save the second as the main and then do stacks for that verse to focus on really nailing key parts. Then move to next verse. Then hook. Then adlibs for full track. Great video.
Great video as always Joe, you have helped me become a better musician and engineer over the last several years. Thank you!
Good to see that others do it as well. The method to punch in only phrases during the recording is what I‘ve done on many records (with me being the singer and recording engineer at the same time). It just feels natural and you come out of the recording session with one perfect track (at least as perfect as you want to have it).
As a singer with a home studio, method 3 was always my way to do it, and I wondered if i was being efficient. This video was encouraging. I actually always create a track for vocals, and then a second track just for punch-ins because I feel like pressing the record button as I’m singing might throw me off. But I will try that method and see how I like it.
Ive been looking for a video on exactly this topic for a while. Thanks for sharing!
I explain it in this video. ruclips.net/video/RpCIuIebrQ4/видео.html
This is an excellent idea. As always, Thank you Joe