The problem with religion in Europe is postmodernism, and it started with the Holocaust. The feeling is that all grand philosophies including religion inevitably lead to tyranny, so it's best not to have any. Before having faith in God, I suppose you have to have faith in faith.
You should have shown the current membership of the United Methodist and Transgenderist church for the last year, a lot of churches are breaking off it.
One question every church leader and member have to ask themselves is: if we close our doors for good, will our neighborhood or city even notice it or miss us?
The answer is a proven NO! I watched a post of a church turned into a nightclub and they said more than 20 times the people showed up compared to when it was a church.
As a Gen Z, when I was in high school, I was one of the few that actually went to church regularly on Sundays. My generation is simply not religious at all. Even the self-proclaimed Christians weren't really Christians. They simply claimed that because their parents also claimed to be Christians and they'd occasionally come to church on Christmas or Easter.
They "claim" they are not religious but they all embrace different religions. Secularism, spirituality, scientism, etc. It's just inherent in our nature to believe in something.
@@thomasc9036 none of what you named are religions though. Belief is not the same as religious belief. I'm always extremely skeptical of someone who claims secularism is a belief system or in opposition to religion, despite the fact that most believers in secularism are religious. It seems either you don't know what secularism is, or you want your brand of Christianity to rule our lives like some christian version of Saudi Arabia.
i can tell you at least part of the reason gen z is so antichurch, as a fellow gen z that majority of other gen z are very much traumatized by especially american evangelical christianity. for example a good friend of mine grew up extreme pentecostal because of his family, and can no longer listen to the Word or be in a church without serious flashbacks. which is unfortunate for a lot of reasons, i know he could benefit from the Word but i respect his past/present and don't push anything. i know this experience is shared by a lot of gen z folks and informs their objections to all of christianity, and pushes them elsewhere, far far away from christianity. ironically extreme theology quite literally beat into you as a child from birth a lot of the time actually produces atheists and witches. see the rather large ex evangelical witch community
I was born in 2000, so older Gen Z, and I see the exact same thing you see. I do think that Zoomers want hope and guidance, hence God, but their parents never really went to church as a family or taught them about Christ. Now that they're older, Christian Zoomers feel lost and don't know what to do. I more or less blame the parents, but that's a whole different can of worms to get into. It's not that there aren't Zoomers who believe, some certainly do, they just don't know how to act on it, and that's a bit sad but I can't blame them.
@@calebr7199 Secularism is a belief system. You can deny all you want but still doesn't change the fact. Here is a link that you may want to read. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secular_religion
I can't speak for other denominations, but as a former Episcopalian, they keep non active members on the books. And many of the smaller episcopal churches don't have the staff to do any kind of correct record keeping. My husband, who never joined the Episcopal church, but did attend with me, gets letters from the diocese once a year begging money. And my baptism records stopped being transferred decades ago, even when I was active. With that knowledge, I feel like their decline is far worse than they report.
Same here. I never "moved my letter" from one parish to another. I know I am on the books of three churches as probably a couple more. Average weekly attendance was dismal before the pandemic and now it is circling the drain. So many are stuck with old buildings that suck the money out of mission.
An excellent question. Are these numbers self-reporting? I can't imagine getting all these churches to agree on a common-method of counting their denomination, let alone trust that every one will report honestly!
My mother was a lapsed Baptist. A laptstist? Because she never joined another church she was always listed as a member of the church she grew up in (and deeply resented).
According to the Lily foundation, which is a foundation that helps Episcopal churches reach people, there is growing interest in people returning to church. People want to raise their children with a Christian background. They just often don't know how to do it and churches really don't know how to engage young families either. My church is growing, it's not super noticeable but we have more kids in Sunday school on the regular. Although admittedly some may be poached from the Anglican Church that left the Episcopal Church when people started going to it and then found out they didn't agree politically with the Anglican Church of North America, and we're right across the street.
I got kicked out of my church for the mortal sin of… going away to college for 2 years. When they found out I was going to be staying in A dorm they called me to tell me I’m not a member anymore. They told me if I’m not attending that specific church I’m not a member. And they were taking me off their books. I used to be a Presbyterian. If that was their attitude I have no intention of going back.
I hear you and this is where the new "non denominational" is headed. They just filled off the serial numbers and added rock music and beer but its the same old pharisees.
Many churches this is common. It is best to transfer your membership to a local church where you go to college. Nothing wrong with transferring your membership or being a member of a local church where you are going to be able to attend. I fail to understand how this is interpreted by you to be a bad thing, when it is a good thing. It's unfortunate that you could not see the real solution in seeking out a similar church where you were attending college and somehow instead took this personal. That was not the intention of the church. Regardless I'm sorry that you took this stance here and hope that you might use this video to find a new church.
I'd say that it's more that the role mainline churches have historically played in American Christianity is becoming obsolete. They were the big-tent denominations that people ended up in through social, familial, or cultural inertia when they hadn't made a conscious decision to practice elsewhere. In a world where Christianity is more of an opt-in culture than an opt-out one, the "true believers" are increasingly moving towards denominations and congregations filled with the like-minded while the less committed just leave altogether since there isn't as much social stigma attached to not being a churchgoer. My late grandfather had not a spiritual bone in his body, but still sent his kids to church because that's just what you did in those days. He picked a Lutheran congregation because it was the closest church to his house and he figured that one church was as good as another for fulfilling social expectations. I suspect that were he raising a family nowadays, he probably wouldn't have bothered with the whole charade and just become one of the "nones".
Idk, I'm atheist and my kids go to church because they are not atheist, and also because it usually provides a social and cultural standard of correct behavior and actions versus incorrect behavior and actions, aka right and wrong. While we are becoming less so, I will agree with Richard Dawkins that abandoning Christian values is going to destroy the west, even if I don't agree with him about much else.
Yeah I do think thats the case. I believe many churches are no longer very active as they once were in the communties they serve as well like doing outreach, community events etc.
Secularization is an issue on the conservative side too - so much of it getting sucked up into outright politics with religion co-opted into the culture war narrative.
@@balala7567 it’s a real challenge - often the big donors that keep the church doors open have an agenda. When it comes to sexual abuse or domestic violence, for example, who’s going to speak out about it if the abuser pays their salary? We had a situation in our church with a young adults group leader that sexually assaulted one of the group members… but his family was a major donor. He ended up losing the leadership position but that’s about it (if there was some police involvement I’d be surprised, sexual assault by a rich white guy isn’t a case they like to take). Maybe just a rumor but the people I heard it from I trust on other things. Incidents like that make me doubt church leadership, but sad reality is that any church that’s been around for a while has some skeletons in the closet.
@@stephen8342 I suppose if the goal was to kill Christianity and let the hermit crab of politics wear the shell it’s a solution. Wouldn’t be new, it’s what we fought against in 1776.
@Kent Stallard Of course there's corruption in it. There's people in it. But the real issue there isn't that people suck, it's that there's no church discipline because it could mean losing members, and money. Then I have to ask why are you there?
I remember in high school when my English teacher (not a Christian) was explaining the Mainline Churches and their cultural influence in America to my class (majority non-Christian). As it turns out, almost none of us had met a self-identified Presbyterian, Lutheran, or Episcopalian in our entire lives. What Christians were in that class were either nondenom Evangelicals or Catholics, and they hadn't heard of the so-called Mainline Churches either. That was 10 years ago in California. The only people I know for sure to have attended Mainline churches are my mom's mom (who stopped going in the 80s) and my dad's dad, a lifelong Episcopalian. I always find the term Mainline curious, because to me it seems like these churches haven't been in the majority or culturally relevant for some 30 years now.
To be fair, members of mainline churches do not go around declaring themselves to be members of their church, whereas evangelical Christians constantly do.
Mainline here I think is all about how longstanding the building is. When factions split, the liberal churches usually get the building since it's the conservatives that leave.
I think it also depends on location. For Lutherans as an example if you come to Minnesota/Wisconsin and the surrounding states you'll find many more than say out in California. Not sure where the other types of Christian denominations congregate.
Not "culturally relevant"? The culture shifted because the Mainline churches shifted them to this way. The reason Mainline churches are mostly silent is that the culture is where they wanted it to be.
@Johnny Rep Yes, Liberation Theology is what I heard it being called. Though that has connotations that are linked to Latin American countries moreso than the West. Though the concept is similar.
There's a shortage of childcare workers who want to do nursery work among Presbyterians. My church in particular pays the most in the county and nobody is biting, it's not facilities it's a labor issue.
I used to belong to a Reformed denomination with mostly old members. Our family was by far the youngest there. Whenever we tried to have activities for younger people as a way to get young outsiders to attend the old people always objected or even stopped it. I kept saying if you gear all your activities toward old people that's all you'll have left some day, and that's what they have now. The old people even insisted on having the church picnic in the basement rather than a park because they didn't want it in the park. We left the church for other reasons than this, but it was apparent the old people didn't want to make an effort to attract young families.
I agree. It might help them keep their doors open. Interesting tidbit though, back in the 80s & 90s in some communities some churches ran daycare. When I was in college on the early 90s I remember one church somewhere nearby making the news because they closed their thriving daycare put of belief and conviction that women belonged in n the home and should be raising their children rather than working. And they said they no longer wanted to be a part to enabling women to work outside the home for income. So rather than offering support to poor families they dropped everyone who relied on them to maintain consistency with their firm conviction.
My family is United Methodist. Back in the 2000s - early 2010s, we were already seeing a decline. I attended numerous conferences and meetings trying to address this. At the time, there was a big trend to "modernize" the service with modern music, church bands and removing traditional elements. Frankly, most modern music was poor then. Repetitive and musically incompetent. And the church bands were like listening to a middle school concert repeatedly every Sunday. I advocated for some churches retaining their traditional elements but was repeatedly told that didn't know what I was talking about. It was heart breaking to watch as those in charge were convinced this was the right and only path. Obviously, it wasn't. I have not attended any church in many years. It was too painful to watch my congregation die.
Personally I find home churches to be the best they are like mini churches averaging around 5 to 20 members (Usually depending on the size of the home it’s hosted in.) and was very nice. What made it nice is that it’s easy to get to know everyone making the whole church part of your community instead of nameless people who show up once a week.
The United Methodist has been apostate for many years now. They ordain women as pastor which is unBiblical and they belong to the World Council of Churches which is part of the ecumenical movement/Globalism heresy. Try to find faithful believers that meet in a home.
Find a Church that still reads and preaches from the true Holy Bible ,the 1611-1769 AV majority manuscript text bible in English , ( commonly miss called the KJB or KJV, should only be titled the 'Holy Bible' period), One that has true Holy Spirit lead praise and worship music whether it be the old traditional , new, or a mix of both.
I’m sorry to hear about this. If I may encourage you, there are many United Methodist churches out there that still have their traditional elements. If you’re interested, I can help you get connected to a map of good ones and to people who know all about them.
There has been a general decline in church attendance in the last 75 years as incomes and living standards grew along with pervasive consumer materialism. This is true not only in the USA, but in developed economies generally. What has not declined is a cultural belief in fairness and truth, especially in the young. Alongside growing materialism has grown a global economy dominated by large corporations with an international mix of shareholders who for the most part adhere to no moral standards while falsely professing to do so, including oil companies advertising how green, socially responsible, moral and honest they are and that they are working towards the improvement of the lot of humanity. Of course, this is all part of the soulless money making machine. TV evangelists like Kenneth Copeland, Paula White perfectly reflect Matthew 7:15. "Beware false prophets who come to you in sheeps clothing, for beneath they are as ravening wolves."
Yeah. Oil companies are businesses governed by shareholders If they were not trying ro make money, it would be dishonest. That would be a sin in itself.
The false prophet in sheep's clothing was Paula White's golden goose, Donald Trump. Although to anyone that isn't mushy brained and easily manipulated already knew Trump was a ravening wolf in wolf's clothing.
There's very little evidence that income and living standards are directly related to religiosity. While it is true that there is correlation, the existence of multiple examples to the contrary, particularly wealthy Arab Muslim nations and Israel, show that it's just a guide not a rule. Or, perhaps more curiously, it is down to Christianity alone and nothing else. Because this trend fails to occur in non-Christian countries, where rising incomes appear to have little effect on religiosity. One can probably make the same conclusion on Thailand and China, although data on Buddhists there is a little harder to gather. And Japan and South Korea aren't really shrinking in religiosity either (permitting ignoring them being majority atheist for the last century anyway) In fact, South Korea and Japan are one of the few places on earth which are more religious today than 50 years ago. In the 2015 census, half of Seoul's residents said they attend religious services weekly. Given Seoul's population of 10.3 million it's probably safe to say more people attend religious services in Seoul than the top 10 most populated cities in US combined. It's not a religion issue, it's a Christianity issue. Or at least white-Christianity issue.
@@varsoo1 you're right. that's a big reason, but it's far from being the only one. freedom from religion was a big part of it's decline. you give the people the freedom to opt out, they opt out. Education is a big part as well, empirical data and science just simply contradict religious faith. religion made big claims it couldn't back up in the long run for the educated mind to believe in.
This is a great channel. I so appreciate the way you lay out the facts as objectively as possible. On the rare occasion you include some editorial commentary, it's always well reasoned and clear. Thank you. As an American, I'm also grateful to live in a country built upon religious freedom where people are able to explore the "competitive American religious marketplace" - Rodney Stark called it. I hope the words of the First Amendment to The Constitution live on forever that, "Congress make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting its free exercise."
Thank you for expressing your opinion. My thoughts are aligned with yours and you explained it better then I could. The only difference is I live in Canada.
@@tomloft2000 Christians? Pretty much the only group in the country that has ever proposed and succeeded in passing religious laws. We having sitting congress members that openly call themselves Christian Nationalists. Might have something to do with being in a 2000 year-old death cult. I'm sure you're a super nice Christian but that requires you to ignore most of the Bible and interpret every passage without any critical though or knowledge of history. Anyone not willing to go down that rabbit hole is going to become a bad person because they're following the 3000 year old laws of a desert war tribe that were reinterpreted by a 2000 year old apocalyptic preacher.
@@LoriJMarshall What death means? and why have we given a death a meaning it never had? Death = out from existence? - what proves it? Bible gives another meaning to death. Biblical meaning for DEATH = existence without GOD in the lake of fire. Souls, do not place REALITY into the box of “religions”, for these have nothing to do with one another. (How can light, which expose the darkness, be in the same box with the darkness? Or can a friend and enemy work together?). I am not in "Christian-ism ", i am in the reality. As getting saved IN SPIRIT is real thing. As going to heaven or hell after death = also reality. Being found worthy to be RAPTURED out from here (without tasting the death, souls going to heaven in the blink of an eyes) Tribulation - the 7 final years for the kingdom of satan, whom son of dearth this whole world waits for. - also reality. The Last Christians shall be BEHEADED and going to heaven - also reality. The parts which "religious"?
I grew up in Roman Catholic Churches that always had solid attendance even with two or three masses on Sundays. Today the Catholic parish I attend has four masses on Sundays and they’re all packed mostly with large young families as well as the elderly, also lots of college students. It’s the University of Virginia parish, Saint Thomas Aquinas led by the Dominican friars
. Catholics are a cult, with Idol Mary worship and praying to dead saints (necromancy), the Pope is a false prophet who condones sin and doesn't believe in hell. --- Read and obey your KJV Bible instead.
@-- the Bible is the final authority, and the Bible makes a strong case for a 7th day Sabbath, Sunday worship was not popular until the 4th century when emperor Constantine changed the sabbath from 7th day to Sunday. Just because catholics say it's a sin, it does not make it so, man made traditions hold no weight. The Bible definition of sin is transgression of God's Law ( 1 John 3:4), and the 7th day sabbath is a commandment of God.
@@pathue1196 the Bible is the final authority, and the Bible makes a strong case for a 7th day Sabbath, Sunday worship was not popular until the 4th century when emperor Constantine changed the sabbath from 7th day to Sunday. Just because catholics say it's a sin, it does not make it so, man made traditions hold no weight. The Bible definition of sin is transgression of God's Law ( 1 John 3:4), and the 7th day sabbath is a commandment of God.
It's astonishing the amount of Christians say we need to send more missionaries overseas as our nation dwindles in numbers of those professing Christ and Him crucified.
Thank you for sending us in the global south your missionaries. Alot of people being saved as we speak because of american. You should be proud of. Glory to our Lord Jesus Christ. God bless USA❤
The Word needs to be preached more here and attempts to smear and silence Faith need to be stopped. At the same time, 3rd world countries need more help than we do.
@@JoeGeorge319 It's actually true. I know people who've done month long mission trips to Southern Africa and southeast Asia. Poor people in America are wealthy compared to the people in those places.
We belong to one of three Catholic Churches in our county in NC. We have been here 11 yrs and the parish has grown tremendously. When we moved here the parish was largely older. Now the masses are very full and many more younger families. Lots and lots of kids now.
@@kennethhymes9734 You are correct that the great majority of new members are from other parishes. We do however have a number of folks who are converting from other religions or non religions. All I attempted to do was show that generalizations are not always accurate
I was one of those conversions to Catholic. While I told its not a conversion from other Christian denominations, just coming in to full communion. I grew up Pentecostal/Apostolic. I feel the traditions of Catholic Church are that of close to original Christian Church, while we will never get as close, I feel its the closest to blending those Judaic and Christian traditions and teaching the truth. The issues is Religion is flawed because its man made. I like the Catholic Church teaches the bible within 3 years (A,B,C) with readings and homilies. Other demoninations / non-denominations is they take scriptures from the bible to fit their message, not fitting the message to the actual scripture.
Im 41 now, when i was a kid in the 80s and 90s every church in my town was full. Now 4 of them are, the rest all but abandoned. There were 200 memebers at my UMC church where i was baptized. It closed 5 years ago. The church across the street, the one down a block all the same. I got confirmed catholic this easter and the parish i go to is almost full every week. Also its the only church near me that isnt segregated which i find extremely refreshing.
That's one thing everyone has to admit the Catholics have going for them: their churches are always integrated. You'll see Latinos, Koreans, Filipinos, whites, Africans, and even Texans all at the same mass.
Conservative Catholic congregations do well, and traditionalist parishes do even better. It is hard for demographers to measure that, as all will say that they are Catholic, but the trends reported on in this video are happening to us, too.
@nicholasshaler7442 Yeah I can totally see what you mean. The German Bishops are very unpopular and may schism over their heretical LGBT beliefs. How many members would we lose if pope francis had the same attitude that they have? I think Francis is looking pretty conservative lately. He openly condemns transgender ideology, the ukraine war, abortion, and gay marriage. We have the FBI targeting us, the woke mob vandalizing churches, bishops being murdered, and generations of kids born from immigrants. The church is getting stronger the more the world pushes against us.... worldwide the RCC has to be top 3 counter culture institutions now.
This is spot on. I was an atheist/agnostic most of my life and the only times I went to church (weddings, funerals, family obligations, etc…) it was always just mealy-mouthed self-help pap. It wasn’t until my mid thirties I ended up actually hearing the gospel and coming to Christ.
I have been a Diest most my life. I even was a Deacon for three years to help a church that was in decline. They told me to help get new members and younger members with children. I gave them plenty of ideas to help bring those families in but the elders and powers that be said no. It would cost them zero dollars and they didn't have to change their Dogmatic law. They just didn't want any changes period. I told them the last meeting I was in that, " This church is dying because you want to convert people with fire and brimstone tactics in am Internet world. You do not allow Deacons to do their jobs and you want new volunteers every Sunday to do something they have no trianing for and then get upset when they bailed or screw up."🤦🏼♂️🤦🏼♂️🤦🏼♂️ What kills a church is what will kill and individual. Adaptations. If you can't adapt you die. 🤷🏼🤷🏼
What is killing the church is what is in the bible is actually being told .it says you can beat your slaves as long as they don't die within 3 days .it says you can pass on your slaves to your children as they are your property
Yeah, I agree and feel your pain... and while we don´t have brimstones - some in the leadership (I call it here - the elders) expect young people from the internet/smartphone world to join the mass (Sunday service) AS IT IS! BUT - I would also like to point out, that there are NO good alternatives either... YES some things could change, but does it change the outflow of people in the long run... I claim NO! This sis of course dependent on culture and more, and I don´t say NO ONE succeeds anywhere... but what I say is that I have NOT heard ideas that after some critical analysis or tests would work in the long run... ideas have been presented hundreds of. But in this INDIVIDUAL world, it is HARD to find things that work.
I will never go to a place that tells me I am broken garbage and the only way to be fixed is to beg forgiveness from the supposed one that made me this way
@@brentmiller3951 Exactly! You'll also find a lot of cults are self-help organizations in some way. What easier way is there to recruit than to tell perspective members that they're flawed and only you have the process to fix them?
This all speaks to my experience of church. I am in my late 20s and happen to be at the same UMC church that I grew up in, so I have seen this congregation shift for a while now. Our congregation has seen a lot of what was mentioned (declining numbers and aging congregation, old hard to maintain buildings, mergers). A point that I will add is that in my experience not only is there a decline in number of young people, but there is a decline in the participation of those who do attend. I think when people talk about getting more young people, there is an assumption that young people now will participate in the same way they did previously. When I was a kid my parents (and those in their cohort) came every Sunday and brought us to Sunday school, but also took their own Sunday school classes, helped set up tables and tents for fundraisers, sang in the choir, served on committees, decorated the Church for Advent, etc. We saw the church as our family, and we all loved to participate in many different ways. Now, most of the young families at my church dont participate like that. They come to worship and their kids are in Sunday school, and that it as much at they want. Dont get me wrong, worship and children’s education is valuable and mutual blessing abound from them, but without additional participation it is hard to see how our congregation maintains our building, builds community and supports our missions long term.
I agree with your observations as well as points in the video. Another factor is families are much smaller so an automatic reduction. If yesterday's service is the "new normal" there's no way there'll be enough members to support the huge old building, after the upcoming big split. One thing I never liked with UMC was the revolving door of pastors coming and going. Granted there was a couple I couldn't wait til they moved on but some I was sad to see them go. Hard to develop a relationship with the constant turnover.
Lutheran church and probably in a different country (culture)... We don´t have Sunday school anymore(ended some 12 years ago, someone tried some 7 years ago and failed... and none after that. What we still do have are groups for small children a few times for different groups during week days (monday-thursday). Then we have some youth, however they are NOT interested in Sunday Service... it is outdated, not speaking to them, it´s a weird odd slow culture far from their mobile phones. A few groups of youth between 4-15 participants gathering in a few different groups (once) a month. Then we have a big number participating in teen confirmation. Then we have a gap, beside the parents dropping off their children to the child groups, but for 95% they don´t participate themselves. Then we have a SMALL adult group that gather 3-4 times a year. A small (and dying - Old mens group) We have diacons reaching out to those needy and poor,. but the clients are not interested in participating either. We have a youth choir DYING, with only a few members. And then adult (old people´s) choirs. We have concerts mainly with classical music that gathers people. In the Sunday service some 30-40 OLD PEOPLE participate (60-85 years old) ... I surely have forgotten some groups, but this is the big picture, the trend. People do NOT want to participate or give their time in the same scale as they used to. They do not either want to commit themselves for a longer time. Participating in 1-3 events is all they that many need and want. We are also struggling with maintaining OLD costly buildings.... which affect how much money we have to try to reach out to and gather people.
That's pretty much how our church is going... were basically down to about 10-15 people who do everything and trying to get others involved, is like talking to a brick wall. Covid made that even harder..
Good video. A huge sector you left out is racial minority churches in the US. African American, Latino, Asian churches, etc. Denominations like the Full Gospel Baptist Fellowship and other minority denominations are growing. And others are declining too. Would be great to see a study on those and compare them with the white mainline, Amish and evangelical denominations you featured here.
Redeemed Church is overwhelmingly Nigerian, there's that! And AG is disproportionately immigrant-driven. Recent immigrants to the States are more ardently Christian (esp evangelical/ish) and Muslim than more established groups, which fuels growth.
@@TORLBC thank you. I'm aware of early African church influencing around the world but I'm not that aware of its international reach today, and I wasn't aware of Redeemed Church. 9 million members globally is very inspiring. God is using Nigeria mightily. By His grace I pray Spirit-led churches from other countries will evangelize here in the US and turn many people around who need it, and strengthen and encourage the genuine Christians who are here.
Oh I’ve been to the 13% churches before most of them are not religious they’re not talking about Jesus or the way to salvation what you’re talking about is reparations and racist things involving the 13%. They’re not Christian most of them their political I find it disgusting.
@@Americanpatriot-zo2tk you're completely wrong on every level. You don't know at all what you're talking about and it's clear from your false accusations that you're a racist. You need Jesus Christ in your life. Repent of your sins including racism. God says hatred including racism is murder and that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. So turn from satan to Jesus Christ before it's too late for you.
Heathen here, I couldn't ever understand the concept of Christianity. My niece who can, asked me questions I couldn't answer, our quest for information led us here. Thank you, we've both learned from your information. We bonded stronger as a result and that means more to me than I can express.
That used to be a very pejorative categorization. Now (for better, I think) we accept everyone. You all still exchange gifts at the Winter Solstice, yes?
Alas, you're not alone. Plenty of "Christians" don't understand Christianity either. Here's what Jesus has to say to them... Luke 6:46 ESV - “Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do what I tell you? Matthew 7:21-23 ESV - “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
@@1WhoConquersSo YOU have the "correct" interpretation and everyone else has it wrong? The Bible is inherently ambiguous and contradictory mythology. Which is why there are thousands of Christian denominations.
@@1WhoConquers Read Scriptures in complete context before you start telling or judging others. Why so many are becoming an instant atheist is one reason why just one. You probably know scriptures in context about 20%like most Christians? then think you are made. Well, be careful being called out as a hypocrite.
@@1WhoConquers Jesus was referring this only to the time of his Disciples and before the generation passed away. and why you don't finish the Context but simply CHERRY PICKING will eventually Confuse you later in life. CHERRYPICKING verses cause more turning away than you might lead to think.
18:29 I actually enjoy speaking with the elderly folks at my Catholic Church, especially during the coffee and donuts afterwards. I am astonished how well educated they all are. Listening to their stories is the highlight of my week.
Its so sad how people are leaving traditional worship (like my PCUSA church) and seeking out literal rock concert churches. I say this as a 19 year old.
Nothing against some modern music in Churches, but what is going out is simply so sad, because while not noticing it, people are slowly but consistently losing the sense of the sacred. No doubt the next generations will be less and less loyal to the Faith than the current ones. Pick Washington National Cathedral's webcasts which is Episcopalian: Yes; they have now a well balanced sort of modern and traditional music toned to today's listeners. It's a well balanced assortment, but always linked to the sacred in such a so joyous manner. Sad they don't have a far larger in presence audience. But their online ministry is on the grow worldwide for a reason.
Same. I don't mind modern music, but church "worship" is supposed to be about reverence and honoring our lord with songs of praise. Saying the same phrases 15 times isn't a "song" , it's laziness. Deliberately trying to copy pop isn't "worship" ,it's disrespect because you're basically saying God is no different than Taylor Swift. I want to go to concert, I'll get tickets thank you. Church is time I choose to dedicate to honoring God, and it was supposed to also be about education too, but I've lost all hope of that. I literally feel closer to God at home listening to old Orthodox chants or old hymns than I do in church listening to pop songs with words swapped out for "Jesus" or "Lord" and repeating "I love you lord" 20 times as if it somehow makes it true. The church, particularly in America abd tge west is so lost, and we are lost and stumbling in the darkness, how exactly are we going to obey Christ's command to be the light of world? Logically speaking, it's not possible which is what I consider to be a major contributing factor to the rapid decline of this country, and no matter who's president, it won't go away until we fix ourselves spiritually and morally starting with the church.
I don´t want to participate in traditional worship, I feel it is outdated, slow, irritating with bad music. No other same age or younger people, and I sit with some 65-85 year old people. I could and have however attended some rock/metal worships.... at least the music is good, often the content is better, and you are surrounded with "20-50" year old people, and I say this a s 50 year old.
I think the real question for the mainlines is how much of their loss is individual congregations leaving for other (confessional) denominations (e.g. as part of a split) or instead individual members leaving for whatever reason, because there's a significant difference in the overall narrative depending
I left UCC but not because I am socially conservative, I am not atheist, I am not secular, it is for a similar reason why William Blake did not have a church. Blake was a religious seeker but not a joiner. I am grateful for many UCC teachings especially Paul Tillich. Paul Tillich wrote that all institutions, including the church, are inherently demonic. You don’t necessarily build an institution when one of the most profound theological philosophers in your church is Tillich. LOL! As an adult I worked in community theater, and worked with all denominations. The UCC prepared me for that because we studied other denominations and atheist perspectives too. I once had an atheist kid and a Christian kid have an argument. I am proud as to how I facilitated their discussion. The atheist kid thought I would take his rationalist perspective, and asked do you believe in God. I said yes, and the Christian child said „SEE I am right!“ I then said the way I understand god might be different than your understanding so we then went deeper into a discussion of our three perspectives and the value of tolerance and understanding and dialogue. All learned from UCC. So maybe the UCC church decline is the fact that we no longer need the walls.
I can’t speak about other denominations but as someone raised Catholic, I know all the pedo scandals the church tried to cover up for decades had a huge impact on their numbers. My parents stopped going to church altogether because of how disgusted they were with it. They probably wouldn’t call themselves atheists but they may as well be since religion plays zero role in their lives anymore. I myself became an atheist soon after high school.
you're right. that's a big reason, but it's far from being the only one. freedom from religion was a big part of it's decline. you give the people the freedom to opt out, they opt out. Education is a big part as well, empirical data and science just simply contradict religious faith. religion made big claims it couldn't back up in the long run for the educated mind to believe in.
@@rosaeruber225 a Christian myself, from my perspective the whole Science vs Religion deal is a false dichotomy. Science tells you how the world functions, but it tells you nothing about what the purpose of life is or how you ought to live your life. Religion and Science do intersect in certain respects, for example when it comes to the question of the origin of life, but when it comes to everything else, they are fundamentally different. Science, though it may help us better understand the world we live in and how it functions, cannot say anything about what the purpose of life is or how we can become better people.
My grandfather described the church of his times and why so many people attended. Families stayed in the town for decades. Two factories enabled men to support their families on one paycheck. The residents grew up with each other, worked together, and worshipped together. Todays' churches are mostly filled with people who live in different neighborhoods. They don't know each other. No one drove to church. There were no parking lots. Everyone walked to church, which was a few blocks away. The pastor lived in a working class neighborhood and was just an ordinary guy like the rest of the residents. Sermons were 10-15 minutes long. The rest of church time was spent on who needed help in the neighborhood and how they could be helped. When the factories closed down, young people left to find job opportunities in the bigger cities. The bonds of community were broken. The only people who still went to church were the elderly people who had forged communal bonds for decades. Younger people in the town didn't grow up with these strong communal bonds. The younger folks also couldn't afford to settle down very long as good jobs were gone. They relocate and never settle down because economic conditions can change rapidly.
This is what happened to my church. when the industries left, so did the young families with children. They had to have jobs and I can't blame them I was fortunate enough to.have a good paying job not connectex.to.indusfry. I also had aging parents that needed some help. My chruch tried the non traditional music and service and for a while it worked. But when it grew stale, the young families that were there left. We have a.congregation of.a out 30 now some have left over the decision to stay with the UMC. I am on the fence and will be exploring other churches in the area to see if any fit with my family. its sad to see my church in decline after so many years of growth.
From personal experiences with CoC, I feel that they tend to shame you if you don't attend often which is understandable. But what is not understandable is they shame you if you don't attend multiple times a week (up to 5 times a week). I'm starting a career, in grad schoo, and have a new born. I barely have time to go once a week and when I do go, the last thing I need is for someone to shame me into going again later that day or night 😢
CoC is by no means mainline protestant either. Disciples for sure are, but the Stone-Campbell Movement is Restorationist and frequently have more in common with groups like the LDS than any of the more sane churches.
It is not understandable for them to shame you if you don't attend often. In fact, that's the complete opposite of what Jesus was referring to with the prodigal son parable. This is part of the reason why church and Christianity is declining-- they don't actually know the Bible and even fewer actually follow it. People can smell the hypocrisy.
The phrase "shame you" is a subjective phrase. If someone points out to you that even secular clubs recognize attendance is necessary, else you are not a member of the club, then how can a brother or sister admonishing you to attend be seen as an attempt at "shaming"? It sounds like to me a sense of pride was wounded, and rather than admit wrong & change, its time to shoot the messenger.
I was raised Presbyterian, the reasons people leave mainline church is it is just not a high-control group or “culty” type of religion. People are encouraged to interpret things for themselves. There’s no strong cultural stigma to leaving. Your family doesn’t reject you. It’s not such a bad thing. My boomer parents still attend but the building does not have the best amenities or full wheelchair access . They streamlined their streaming broadcast during the 2020 pando. Now many of the older less mobile congregants find it easier to just watch online. Some people complained loudly when they put up a rainbow flag , but , they stayed anyway? Just wrote a very strongly worded letter to the board. I was surprised they didn’t move to a McDonald’s Church over a decade ago when PCUSA affirmed gay marriage and everything. Maybe religion isn’t really as centered in our society anymore but I don’t have any stake in it anymore. I wish there was a regular place for people to find community and support each other though
Having grown up with my extended family in an "Apostolic Pentecostal" (whatever the hell that is) congregation, this makes a lot of sense. I'll admit I share the wish for a community-centered space though
Speaking as someone based in the US, one thing that I see happening with the decline of mainline Protestantism, which historically occupied the middle ground between Evangelicalism and Catholicism, is the deepening of the divide between Protestants (who will mostly be represented by Evangelicals et al.) and Catholics (along with Orthodox and other non-Protestants). I often hear people asked if they're "Catholic or Christian." (I personally find the exclusive appropriation of the term, "Christian," by Evangelicals quite problematic for a number of reasons.) I can forsee a situation evolving in American English evolving like the Indonesian language, for example, which has separate words for "Catholic" ("Katolik") and "Protestant/Christian" ("Kristen").
Once had an acquaintance in high school ask me if I was Catholic or Christian. I said "Huh?", she didn't budge. I told her Catholics were a kind of Christian, she said "You know what I mean". Oh, and she was a Roman Catholic, an Italian American. I couldn't give her a straight answer because I was raised Episcopal. So yes I agree, I think Catholics and Evangelicals have already made themselves mutually unintelligible long ago, and without the Mainline churches to serve as a bridge between those two worlds, they will probably have a relationship closer to Buddhism and Christianity in Korea (even though they'd have good reason to see themselves as common Christians against a majority irreligious America)
When I was a kid I went from Lutheran (Missouri Synod) to Evangelical. I then became non-denominational in college. I become an atheist after college. I am very thankful for my journey. I had considered becoming a Jew, a Muslim, a Mormon and a Lutheran again. Then, when I turned 29 I joined the Catholic Church. Now I am 43 and married in the Catholic Church. It was a long journey. That said, I still keep all of the good things I learned along the way. Lutheranism taught me the Bible and the importance of faith. Evangelicalism taught me that denominations are a modern construct. Non-denominationalism taught me about innocence and the faults of legalism. Atheism taught me to use reason. I became a Catholic because my family roots are from western Europe and I discovered my love for the Church Fathers through a family member. If I was Russian I may be a member of the Orthodox Church today. I LOVE tradition and I will never see tradition as a dirty word. I am excited that many of my family members are making their way to more traditional Orthodox Churches (not mainline), such as the new Anglican Church in America or the Russian Orthodox Church. The Catholic Church has tons of problems it will need to fix in the coming century. That said, I really appreciate Christians who are honest and humble about their walk with Christ. I firmly believe in the Catholic Church, but I am only a fallible man. I have searched my heart and I believe I am honest in my beliefs. I also believe many other Christians feel the same way, and maybe others in other religions. I believe God will judge all of us with mercy and justice. I don't think anyone will end up in hell because they failed a divine theology test.
While reading, I couldn't help but notice a tinge of emotional sadness, that I felt from reading you comments; no direct reflection on what to me seems to be your open-hearted confessions. My advise to ALL, is to study first. Discover Jesus, and then keep your mind focused on Him, asking Him daily to guide you through your days. He will. The burden for man is to love thy neighbor. This commandment seems to be the hardest hill to climb for so many. God says: you don't have, because you don't ask with the right heart and purpose. Ask Him your desires with sincerity.... and wait patiently for His certain response. He is Faithful, Truthful, and All Loving to those who seek and Love Him.
@@civilcitizen3586 I am not sure if you were referring to me or to Vincent. If me, then actually I will say I am full of joy where I am today and where I hope to be in the future. I have found Christ. I agree with your comments, and there is sadness on every journey. Keeping the faith is challenging and can be very hard at times. Being confronted with certain truths that completely upend a persons "map of meaning" (to steal from Dr. Jordan Peterson) can almost destroy one's old self. All that said, Christians need to come together and honor and respect everyone's journey so long as that journey comes from a place of honesty and truthfulness. People will experience different realities on Earth. Peoples truths can be different not because there are different truths, but because we all have limited ability to know the truth in this life. Thanks for the comment.
As a born and raised Greek Orthodox Christian, contrary to the experiences of many others here, the churches I attend have been mostly made up of younger members and new families, and our churches are rapidly growing. I'm happy that Orthodoxy is showing many of my younger generation the grace of God however the overall decline of Christianity in America is alarming.
I went from being baptized Roman Catholic as a child to Agnostic Atheist for most of my childhood and teenage years to eventually studying up on different denominations and coming to the conclusion as a 20 year old that the history behind the Greek Orthodox church and its traditions/viewpoints really appealed to me. The services in general are much more spiritual in nature compared to what I grew up in and the community is great as well, I hope more young people in the US get integrated with these older churches.
Your experience adds confirmation to an opinion I have developed over the past 21 years of dealing directly with young adults (both in the military as a leader and also as a father), and that is that liberal Christianity is losing because it is giving up tradition, giving up concrete values and beliefs, and betraying heritage and history to seem “cool” and relevant and to try to appeal to “young people” while being absolutely and ironically oblivious to the fact that Millennials, Gen Z and Gen Alpha are attracted not to novelty but to authenticity stemming from a desire to experience something unique, old, and real, rather than to stomach the materialistic, nihilistic modern world and institutions built by the Boomers and their far-out Gen X prodigy. Anyone 45 and under is seeking authenticity and connections to the past-perhaps stemming from the isolated, sterile world of the internet and non-stop novelty found there-and to find somewhere real to plant their feet; to be part of something bigger than themselves that has a proud and long heritage. These moronic liberal “Christians”-for whatever that title even means to these mainline denominations-are ironically the most out-of-touch people in the wider church even as they trumpet their own relevance. I belong to the Shingon Buddhist order, a tradition that to this day is one that is passed from master to student for all people in it, and which started that way since Nagarjuna passed the torch to Naga-Bodhi, and through four more patriarchs to Hui-Kuo and ultimately to Kōbo-Daishi Kūkai, the founder of Shingon, in 804-805. The tradition is just that-traditional-and we still practice the rituals and ceremonies as they were practiced 1200 years ago. People like coming to the Shingon temple for that reason: we aren’t selling them something new, nor dazzling them novelty and extravagancy-we’re just holding to the tradition, remaining faithful to O-Daishi-sama, and holding the line. The number of weekly attendees continues to increase (we are only of only four Shingon temples in America) as Americans, hungry for something authentic and with a long tradition and proud heritage, come find out what we’re about. I think part of the reason Christianity (orthodox, conservative, confessional Christianity) is in general decline is, ironically, because it is so hard to figure out what the non-denominational churches adhere to. If any pastor with a set of ideas can just form his own church and call himself non-denominational, then there is no consistent standard and there are so many choices that it discourages would-be converts. When a religious institution abandons tradition, fundamentals, and heritage for independence and “relevance”, it will fail as so many churches in the USA are. As for the Greek Orthodox and Russian Orthodox (and others) churches that adhere to tradition and still perform rites and rituals and carry forth the traditions of the centuries and millennia past, I have personally seen more and more young people say how they attended those services and enjoyed it. There is something to be said for reciting the Nicene Creed, for Lutheran rites, for Orthodox pagentry, and these modern, Protestant Christians don’t seem to get it (regardless of how they justify their actions).
In some senses, similar phenomenon that Amish outnumbered Mainline churches already happened to other religions, where Haredi, ultra-orthodox Judaism, already occupies significant portion of whole Israeli population.
@@jobloluther They get a stipend from the Israeli government as long as they are doing religious studies. They also get to opt out of the otherwise-mandatory military service.
Your videos are always interesting and carefully done. I'm 75 and where I grew up Catholics and Lutherans dominated the communities. My Lutheran friends left their ELCA church for one no longer affiliated with the ELCA. Some Catholics sympathetic to Gays simply left the church only to be replaced by protestants comfortable with the liturgical nature of the Catholic church and its tendencies to keep traditions. Covid greatly affected attendance and the 2023 Lenten period really saw an increase in Mass attendance in my parish. It's still below attendance in 2019. Anyway, it is alarming to see the division within all of Christianity.
Division can be a good thing for the health of organizations... it forces them to look to see what is wrong with their organization and what can be improved. It also shows that people don't have blind faith and fight for tolerance and other issues that religion should be reinforcing but has been failing to.
Christianity will eventually go the way of all other ancient religions. Functionally extinct. It’s just the way of things. It won’t go extinct in our lifetimes though. Probably not for at least a thousand more years, if we last that long.
The amount of work put into a video like this has to be crazy. Props to you. I’ve watched this at least 3 times since it came out now. I just shared it with someone who I think might like it. I hope your channel keeps growing, you deserve lots of subscribers. I hope you can do this work full time if you don’t already. It’s a great benefit to us.
As a Catholic (but also a lover of history) I always find it tragic when historic churches either close down or are left to rot (especially in the midwest). The more orthodox mainline protestant congregations (and potentially Catholic Church) should really look into making more churches into simultaneum, while fighting to make sure the churches that have to be closed down due to falling membership are converted into more respectable community gathering centers like libraries, soup kitchens and/or local opera houses. It's by no means pretty, but it's better than having our historical churches left to rot or being used for unchristian ends.
Our older Churches were wiped from the map. Families having received all sacraments, in these Church buildings, as did their ancestors, remain in shock and in sadness or anger, until today. It also didn't help that wood carvings, on the altar, made by early immigrants from Europe and elsewhere and fantastic statues, bought in times of quality, just disappeared. The cemeteries were left to flood and the broken stones were put in a pile. A parking lot replaced the old Church, in our case, all in the name of building a new Church building, which appears as a High School Gym. The first warning, was changing from Latin to English, but who suspected to be led down this strange path? The Church, in these times, between 1962 and 1970 or so just pulled the rug out, from under the feet of Church members. The Pastor talked business and had visiting Priests talk about the Gospel. Thank goodness for that. Then it was back to business. A mere collection replaced the Summer Fair/Celebration, in which members sold their crafts etc. and contributed these earnings to the Church. It was so much fun and held us as a parish, together. Later, the yearly contributions from each member, we're published in a book. It allowed wealthy children to make fun of other children, in Cathechism class on Saturday. They brought a copy along. Meanwhile, choir members sang and practiced for holidays etc. for free. One Priest intended to be up in the choir loft and put the choir on the altar... just turning the whole gathering, in his elevated direction. There are limits to how much you can allow yourself to follow. There are more examples, not of the congregation leaving the Church, but of the Church, leaving the congregation. Some choir members went to another Church, an older building where this could not be architecturally done. In these cases, all you can do is run and have your own private talks with God, because there is no one left to hear you.
Yeah, I live in a traditionally Catholic town, but I'm one of a few young people that still go to Mass. There are all kinds of beautiful old churches that are completely abandoned around where I live. it's sad to see. I knew a priest who would rescue old sacred vessels (chalices, etc) so that they didn't end up in Pawn shops. He would gift them to new priests upon their ordination. Still, it's hard to see our sacred spaces turned into reception halls and taverns. Christendom is very threatened by the new Paganism gripping our culture in America...
I knew of a group of Buddhist monks who wanted to turn an abandoned Catholic church into a temple. The church refused to sell to another religion. So, they just closed it down and let it rot and the monks ended up buying an old school instead.
OK, now it makes sense that our Diocesan Priest had the beautiful, historic Church torn down, for a parking lot, to accommodate only 8 huge cars and built a new bigger Church. He planned for declining membership. The 'new' building looks like a High School Gym, with pews in it. He said that we needed more room, for our growing Church membership, while preparing for a decline. Now, it seems that he was preparing for the worst, for the time, when the old Church would have been let to rot. He believed that the Gym would have more of a future. Could he not have had more masses in the old Church? The parking places were the most important things, but cars were not small back then. Remember the Chrysler Saratoga? If you live long enough, you see that the Church building is still a Church and not a school gym. Membership has grown. The pews are still there. The old Church is an old memory. I imagine, that despite having compact compact cars now, they might have turned the old cemetery into a parking lot as well. I will check, as family is there too.
If you love history and study it objectively you'll see that the Catholic Church is one of the most evil organizations in history. Religion is inherently authoritarian and has been the cause of so much suffering. Time for humans to grow up and ditch the mythology.
Please do videos like this on the most recent stats for the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches. And please do a video about EWTN TV/Radio and its effect on the American Religious Landscape.
I agree. Especially since while most people probably leave the church to become atheist or agnostics. I've heard from many places that a fair amount are actually just switching to Catholic or Orthodox. It'll be interesting to speculate given the numbers.
@@BoondockBrony the growth of orthodoxy and Catholicism from ex mainlines is greatly exaggerated by internet “cathttrads” and “orthobros” the exchange from this denominations to the either one of those is minimal, and orthodoxs are still less than 1% in the USA, while white Catholics are declining at the same rate as mainline churches, being only sustained by the immigrant influx of Latino Catholics (who also tend to leave the church after one generation or convert to evangelical Christianity)
My town once had six Catholic schools. There are none now; the last one closed 3-4 years ago. I'm thinking that the trend is similar for the churches themselves, though not that extreme.
I grew up largely nondenominational. Based on that, I think this drive for Christians, young and old, to practice their faith outside of these mainline churches comes from a desire to fully realize their personal relationship with God. In other words, they want the freedom to carve their own path.
Our local Southern Baptist church is growing rapidly because our pastor teaches the Bible. We are about to start construction on a new campus to hold our growing congregation. We are looking at building a Christian school.
The general thesis of the video seems to be that the Protestant Mainline is in trouble but that conservative churches are alive and well. While there may be some good news here and there for one conservative denomination or another the statistics cited at the beginning of the video belie the real problem. People in the United States are leaving Christianity. The culture war is cited as the reason why people are leaving the mainline for conservative alternatives because of culture war social issues. And while that may be true, people are also leaving the mainline as well as conservative churches over the same issues, but leaving for the opposite reasons. And the younger the generation the more likely people of any denomination are to leave their faith. And unlike in prior generations there doesn't seem to be a reflexive return as people age. Most of the statistics in this video are at best just showing that some boats are sinking faster than others.
@@hahaseab Statistic after statistic I've seen from several reliable polling outfits really doesn't bear that out. Conservative churches once seemed immune from, or even the beneficiaries of, the flight from the pews in other denominations. That ceased to be the case sometime in the late 2010's. There may be denominations with net gains, numerically, still, but the share of the overall population is on the decline. It's only groups like the Ahmish, which were comparatively very small before, that for now buck that trend (just a decade or so ago the Ahmish community was trying to recruit new members because of genetic diseases among its then dwindling population). I suspect that growth rate is also unsustainable in the face of the decline in US religiosity. Less than 70% of Americans now consider themselves Christian, compared to over 90% in the 80's. And among those who remain, church attendance is down, importance of God in life is down, regular prayer is down, etc, etc. And all of those numbers look even worse in the generation just now hitting adulthood, with adults in late teens and early 20's down even further in all categories, and self id'ing as Christian below 50% in some polls. And again, basically everyone Gen X and later no longer seems to be finding faith in later years. Those numbers suggest any boost in one Christian group or another is isolated and almost certainly temporary. I'm not saying the general thesis that conservative churches are benefitting from people leaving more moderate denominations is inaccurate. That is practically undeniable. What I'm saying is they're taking a larger and larger share of a smaller and smaller pie.
Yeah, while I know most Americans are protestant. most of the horror stories my ilk have talked about are from Catholic families and schools. Faith overall is declining but I heard out of atheists most of them were Protestants and then came Catholics (forgot the numbers).
I had that experience lol. There are many Youth pastors on my campus that I engage with (Though never ague with) that say that line but then I bring up an encounter I had in the Eucharist and they wouldn’t know what it is lol. I just say look in to it and try my best to show them our commonalities.
I see you like being passive-aggressive. Is theology not intrinsically political, in the sense that it orders how people live their lives and the choices that they make? To feign neutrality misses the point. We are not neutral; we are openly for Christ and of Christ.
I’m Baptist. I attend two baptist churches but am only an official member of one. The one I’m a member of we started going to when I was 11. My parents ended up leaving over something small and went to a small church that was Baptist too but had no Baptist in the name. Then after their new pastor told everyone who to vote for, they left for a regular Baptist church. It’s a great church but the most active ones are the elderly members. Still, it’s vibrant and conservative. The first pastor left and a number of ppl left because he did but the youngish new pastor is doing what he can. I still go to my church because it’s a good one and I know folk who come. But I stopped going to the contemporary service and go To the early bird “elderly” service bc a girl I babysat and her family attend it. It’s small but nice and I love the hymns. Mine used to have large, vibrant youth and college groups when I was in youth and college. But when we graduated college, most everyone left except a couple like me. To jobs and families elsewhere. Now it’s basically just me.
When Thomas Merton was writing about the Desert Fathers and Mothers, he said, "these were men (and women) who believed that to let oneself drift along, passively accepting the tenets and values of what they knew as society, was purely and simply a disaster." He described society as 'a shipwreck from which people must swim for their lives''.People well get sick of the empty promises and lies of secular society. Then, like Saint Francis of Assisi, they'll look for a better way.
This is one of the main reasons why I converted from the Reformed Presbyterian tradition to Roman Catholic. The hand writing is on the wall. Like I told my Presbyterian friend, a few years ago, “wake up, our children are not going to marry Presbyterian girls, and the likelihood of them being Reformed is next to nothing” I said that to him while I was still Reformed. even after Covid, the Catholic church that I attend now has four services and they are all packed. Which blows me away because I became a Catholic in 2020.
Catholic Church does a better job of reducing churches so they seem more full. Go count the parish number of your town from 50 years ago to today and you'll see that many churches have closed. In my region they can barely maintain their current numbers and are trying to downsize. Turns out raping generations of kids isn't the best PR program
I have noticed that many Presbyterians are converting to Catholicism. The Catholic church does not accept double predestination, and I strongly believe that they are right. In the end, God wants us to be in Heaven and He hopes we will make the choices to get there. The predestination that is in our lives is designed (what I have been taught) to help the individual to get there.
@@sarak6860 It does and doesn't. The Catholic view of God's providence is very nuanced, but it starts with a different anthropology than the Reformed. Total depravity and original sin are not quite the same
I grew up (in the 50's and 60's)in a small Midwestern working class suburb which had about 10 different denomination Protestant churches The high school students parents were mostly nominally religious but the students never talked about religion. I believe that the students were totally confused in that each of these churches had different ideas about Christianity. To add to the confusion, the parents would often change churches so the students would get taught contradictory belief systems.
Getting taught contradictory beliefs isn't all bad. Getting taught only one belief is indoctrination, and it's fragile. Someone comes along with a little pin, and pop! I studied all the atheist arguments, and some Buddhism, Taoism, and Islam. In the end, I know exactly why I believe Christianity is the one true religion.
@@cjextreme that “only our church is the true church” argument is a red flag for being little better than a stereotypical cult. If church is the only way to salvation, that’s not Christianity. Christ is the only way, the church is just a wagon to get you to the way.
@@Justanotherconsumer I know that Christ is the only way! Christ organized HIS church to work as a stable entity to his gospel and law. Churches are the support system to guide, instruct, and to give comfort among a myriad of other purposes. When a sect no longer teaches the gospel as it is written, and/or falls to the changing winds of the world, then it is no longer a church of God in intent of his law, and people know this deep down. That is why they are fleeing. Quote "if you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything". Yes, I guess I'm guilty of a little pride, but I never knew before how my faith stacked up to other religions. I find it really touching, but mostly humbling why I am blessed so much to be given the knowledge of Jesus Christ while so many around the world are not. Truly the mercies of God are open to all who seek him.
Well believe it or not there was honestly a hell of a lot of people via your parents' age group did in the 50s and 60s they dumped Church like a hot potato because many of them discovered that most of the preachers was after just big money and big buildings. I know that my grandparents ditched Church back in the late 50s possibly even the mid-50s but I know it was slightly before the 60s at least. And they did so for that very reason not to mention my grandfather had worked in a factory Monday through Friday and certainly didn't want to get up that early in the morning on Sunday and I certainly don't blame him. I believe the decline in the churches is literally of their own doing.
@@Justanotherconsumer Well *HISTORICALLY* Jesus Christ ✝️ FOUNDED the Catholic Church upon Saint Peter the Rock 🪨 in 33 AD. Even Google, Siri and Alexa confirms this.
The nearest large UMC to my home was built to accommodate a congregation of 1,400. Its current membership number is 125. My closest UMC church just down the street just celebrated its 200th anniversary. It was built for a congregation of 400, and currently has 24 members.
@@chrismadison5709evolution is the extinction of dysfunctional lines, the UMC will extinct itself by being what it is: a dumping ground for American progressive politics and paper thin apologia.
Just left the UMC for a currently unaligned Methodist church after we lost a disaffiliation vote by 2%. I'm not even THAT socially conservative and could have dealt with certain changes in isolation, but when I realized the whole upper leadership and a lot of the pastors had gone full blown critical theory Marxist and actively held those of us who aren't in contempt, I had to leave. My experience was incredibly similar to how I hear older Rust Belt Democrats talk, about how their party abandoned them rather than the other way around. I didn't change. The UMC did and it was only when I suddenly found myself in an environment where I was unwelcome despite doing and saying nothing, that I had to leave. We left our UMC church with a ginormous campus they are in debt for that was built to accommodate well over 1000 people and had declined. Meanwhile we have a larger congregation that is barely able to fit our temporary accommodations with 2 services and we will either need a new venue soon or need to start a 3rd service to avoid overcrowding. Losing our disaffiliation vote seemed like a worst-case scenario before but now it feels like we actually got the better end of the deal by far as we are carrying no debt and didn't have to pay a fee to the UMC and stuck the UMC with the full burden of everything.
@@chrismadison5709 Awww…thanks. It’s been healing to go to a church where I feel welcome and no longer afraid of the judgment of the clergy and others in the congregation. (Are those things the Marxists like to say they feel? Yes. But that’s how I felt how where I previously was.)
Could you please do more of these videos looking at the trends in Church membership in other countries like the UK, Canada, Australia, NZ and Ireland? Maybe even countries in Continental Europe. Thank you
@@canwelook the request for the video is not about seeking information for the overall trend which is well known. It’s about the detailed breakdown on what is happening inside each of the major denominations, and why, with the depth that Ready to Harvest has provided for this particular video. As was seen in this video while many major churches are declining, others are not. These other countries would likely have similar overall trends, and definitely face the same or similar issues, but the make up of their denominations would not be identical to the US. Therefore the details for each will also be different.
I'm a 23 year old Christian that has recently decided to leave the Baptist church i grew up in and convert to Orthodoxy, I see a lot of the people my age where I live seem to be converting to either one of the big 2 Catholic or Orthodox, or are just claiming agnostic or atheist
Eh, I was in a similar road with the orthodox thing (attended an Antiochian parish), but I left and became an agnostic christian that goes to an episcopal church. From what I've noticed, many young people that join the Orthodox church tend to leave after a few years. I'm sad to see many of the mainline branches in the US decline. It's a good place for people like me.
@@odie-wankenodie8607 I blame it on the memes. Most of those young lads wouldn't even know about the Orthodox Church if not for the myriad of memes about it online. Rome/Byzantine memes are super popular, and to many in the West the Orthodox Church appears to be more conservative in a world in which its foil, the Catholic Church, seems to be increasingly liberal under Francis. There's also an allure to the fact that they know next to nothing about it, so it takes a while for them to realize it's just another church.
The thing is, the decline is not of the faithful. That would actually be worrying. The decline is from nominally christian, non practicing christians who no longer feel the need to idnetify as such. The church is getting smaller, but stronger in faith. Catholics in Russia are a TINY minority, and 50% of them pray everyday, and even more go to church every sunday: Small, but high in faith. Compare that to 16% of orthodox christians in Russia, orthodoxy is more of a cultural icon than a truly religious faith for most russians. Christianity is not declining. Its just that the true believers are being seperated from the ones who were only culturally christian.
Tbh, as an atheist agnostic, i think churches are dying is because they spend way too much time trying to be like the world. Honestly, what's the point of going? I'm trying to study theology and near eastern culture and religion, a massive part of that is Judaism and Christianity. I learn A LOT by attending jewish services and talking to rabbis. I learn basically nothing going to Christian churches, except that god loves you no matter what, which isn't true at all. It's becoming, if it hasn't already gotten there, a place where people pat themselves on the back for being people, who are also sinful, but that's okay because God doesn't really care about sin. Or the other side, sin leads to hell, and eveyone except us are going there. It's a complete mess and much of it is reflectove of the fact that Christians in the US really, really, really don't understand pre-rabbinical judiasm. At all.
Schism within Christianity has weakened its theology. There is barely much of an agreement about the risks of sin, the role of faith and acts, which parts of the Bible are allegorical vs. authentic, the importance of conscience. There isn't even one accepted translation of The Bible.
After 25 years in the church I had heard it all by the time I was 14. There were never any new lessons, no engagement to be gained. The only benefit of church was to have a community. They always said people have a God shaped hole in their heart, but they don't. I've been an atheist for a decade now, it's been the happiest time of my life. I don't have to judge myself based on other's ideas. I don't have to worry so much about keeping in line lest I be caught by the nosy ladies. Life is better without thinking "am I good enough?" constantly.
You're not wrong there. Between COVID mandates, watered-down (and sometimes false) preaching, taking Scripture out of context, and the rise of what seems to be LGBT+ dominance in American society, the Church of today has conformed so much to the world it's almost indistinguishable. Jesus in His letter to the lukewarm church of Laodicea in Revelation 3 was not pretty; in fact He told that church "because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spew you out of My mouth" (v. 16). That phrase should scare any church into repentance.
Yeah, that could definitely be part of it. Paganism is basically a never ending research project, but make it spiritual. We don't have a lot of physical community or orthodoxy (except in maybe some very traditional Gardnerian Wicca), but there's certainly a lot to learn and explore.
As a catholic christian from the uk (originally from Ireland) - it is very true that protestant denominations who are attempting to change christian doctrine, are declining rapidly. If you walk into the local methodist or anglican church, you will see just elderely people, no families, no children. However, if you walk into the catholic church i attend, you will see it packed for 3 english masses on a sunday, many more than in the local cofe church, full of many families, children and young people, in fact over 40 people got confirmed last year. I am only 16, but I must say the only other christians i know are catholics, or evangelicals.
The mainline protestants lack the fanatical zeal of more fascist aligned religions; that is evangelical and Catholic Christianity. It likewise lacks the explanatory power of scientific and materialist mindsets that have actually developed mankind. So mainline protestants will die off, as they have nothing to offer.
Sorry Kieran, Pentecostal church is the fastest growing and is expected to be 800 million in the next decade. Brazil’s Catholic churches are losing ground to the Pentecostals. The rest of SA is following. Catholic Church will still grow to 1.4 billion in the next decade.
@Kieran could you ask someone in ur Church a Question Why Bible, Torah, Qura'n start with the God of Ibraham Isac David Moses but later how Church Theology Unsuccessfully Derails this Monotheism & we've only Jews ✡️ n Muslims claiming to Believe in One & the Same God apart from Christianity.
One reason is a lot of companies stay open through Sundays now. Especially in manufacturing type of jobs, a lot more people are having to work that day. I worked at a factory for quite a while, and if was hard to get the weekends off. You had to work there for over 10 years to get a Monday-Friday schedule. Churches becoming more progressive is also a major factor.
I used to think all the emphasis on keeping the sabbath was just dumb, but as I got older I realized how important it is (was) for creating a captive audience for Churches. Faiths which more strictly enforced the sabbath tended to survive better than those which didn't.
Churches becoming more progressive is the only reason I started going again. The church I'm a member of proudly hangs a rainbow flag. As a lesbian that obviously makes me, and many others, feel welcome in a place where you assume you're not welcome.
its you, the Allons enfants de la Patrie, Le jour de gloire est arrivé ! Contre nous de la tyrannie L'étendard sanglant est levé, (bis) Entendez-vous dans les campagnes Mugir ces féroces soldats ? Ils viennent jusque dans vos bras Égorger vos fils, vos compagnes !
Refrain : 𝄆 Aux armes, citoyens, Formez vos bataillons, Marchons, marchons ! Qu'un sang impur Abreuve nos sillons ! 𝄇
Que veut cette horde d'esclaves, De traîtres, de rois conjurés ? Pour qui ces ignobles entraves, Ces fers dès longtemps préparés ? (bis) Français, pour nous, ah ! quel outrage Quels transports il doit exciter ! C'est nous qu'on ose méditer De rendre à l'antique esclavage !
Refrain
Quoi ! des cohortes étrangères Feraient la loi dans nos foyers ! Quoi ! Ces phalanges mercenaires Terrasseraient nos fiers guerriers ! (bis) Grand Dieu ! Par des mains enchaînées Nos fronts sous le joug se ploieraient De vils despotes deviendraient Les maîtres de nos destinées !
Refrain
Tremblez, tyrans et vous perfides L'opprobre de tous les partis, Tremblez ! vos projets parricides Vont enfin recevoir leurs prix ! (bis) Tout est soldat pour vous combattre, S'ils tombent, nos jeunes héros, La terre en produit de nouveaux, Contre vous tout prêts à se battre !
Refrain
Français, en guerriers magnanimes, Portez ou retenez vos coups ! Épargnez ces tristes victimes, À regret s'armant contre nous. (bis) Mais ces despotes sanguinaires, Mais ces complices de Bouillé, Tous ces tigres qui, sans pitié, Déchirent le sein de leur mère !
Refrain
Amour sacré de la Patrie, Conduis, soutiens nos bras vengeurs Liberté, Liberté chérie, Combats avec tes défenseurs ! (bis) Sous nos drapeaux que la victoire Accoure à tes mâles accents, Que tes ennemis expirants Voient ton triomphe et notre gloire !
Refrain
Couplet des enfants:[c] Nous entrerons dans la carrière Quand nos aînés n'y seront plus, Nous y trouverons leur poussière Et la trace de leurs vertus (bis) Bien moins jaloux de leur survivre Que de partager leur cercueil, Nous aurons le sublime orgueil De les venger ou de les suivre.
I'd like to see a similar video with Catholicism, taking into account the world-wide Church and the Rites within, as well as the different Mass settings. So, for example, the Norvis Ordo attendance vs The Old Latin Mass attendance vs Chaldean and Bizantine Divine Worship attendance. That would be fascinating to me. World wide I believe Catholicism is growing, especially in Africa and China.
@@SeanusAurelius Well, as far as morals go we have come a long way since the early iron age. Also, it's not as if no other book pretents to be the word of a higher power, so as long as god choses to be silent, one must live with the bible being distrusted
I’m Episcopalian. My church is an anomaly among Episcopal churches. It’s the second-largest church in our diocese and the largest, by far, in southern Arizona. Our numbers haven’t quite rebounded to pre-Covid levels, but they are getting there. And there are A LOT of young families joining. Enrollment in Sunday School increased 42% from 2022 to 2023. There’s also a surprising amount of new members who were raised evangelical. So…I guess that’s something.
@@cruzgomes5660 I don’t honestly know. We must be offering something that the other Episcopal churches in town are lacking. I just joined two years ago, but I knew about their robust children’s offerings from when I attended that church a number of years ago. They have different clergy now, but they are obviously doing something right.
As a young person that is a member of one of these churches, and going to a college associated with one of these churches I want to say some things. 1) People not engaged in Christianity tend to group all demoninations together, with an often sour taste in their mouths. 2). Because people group Christianity together one when recruiting new students to the college we often have to explain denominations, and that our church is different than what they were familiarized with through culture. 3). People that leave our churches often go to a more conservative church, while those that leave more conservative churches less commonly join a more progressive church. 4). Associating politics with it, rural areas tend to have better attendance and community shaming for not attending, rural areas are also more conservative, while more urban areas are more progressive, and less likely because of population and culture to shame not attending. 5). The mainline tends to invest less in converting others, and more into doing good. The UCC does studies connecting racial discrimination to climate chnage and prepares those communities to feel the effects, the ELCA funds and runs a lot of refugee resettlement programa, and funds upstart agricultural programs in Sub-Saharan Africa. However I have many personal experieneces eith people from the 'non-mainline' denominations trying to convert me.
I’d agree with you on a lot if a good amount of mainline church runners weren’t driving the best models of cars and living lavishly. Religion feels like a disease that gets in the way of progress, and history only supports that.
@FourOf92000 the Methodists and sometimes the Baptists themselves often supported progressive goals such as Feminism and Civil Rights. Even in the modern day, many of those Churches support LGBT, abortion, and BLM
@@ThreeScaredBros Kenneth Copeland and Joel Olsteen are both heterics since they preach a counterfeit Christianity known as the Prosperity Gospels. Authentic Christianity teaches that suffering is inevitable especially if you are a Christian. The Prosperity Gospels teaches that God will give you good health, wealth, and material benefits if you give money to those scam pastors. Christianity promises spiritual wealth, not material wealth hence why it's at odds with both capitalism and communism
Quite frankly, I got sick of hate and bigotry being preached from the pulpit. I was turned off by pastors playing coy with violent elements, the church aligning with entities very un-Christ-like in their behavior, and the idolatry of political figures. The day my pastor said we should go back to burning witches at the stake was the last day I ever attended service.
@@nothingelse1520he’s not wrong. I went to a church where my pastor preached against gay rights and said all Muslims and Hindus would go to hell. I just always felt so upset after every mass. I just decided I hated going to a church that just used fear and hate towards others.
@@viridianacortes9642 in college I got invited to a young adult church group. The pastor started going on about how evil Catholics were .......my grandma was a Catholic the preist used to visit her at the hospital as she was dying. Not a good way to break the ice with me at all.
Sorry to hear that. As an individual, like Peter, Andrew, James etc - I've stayed in a community/church with other obstinate disciples who don't get it right all of the time and all together, need Jesus.
When I was a very young kid an older neighbor lady asked my mother if she could take me to her church. I don't remember this myself, but from what my mother told me, the church was a fire and brimstone baptist church. The preacher was talking about people burning in hell, and supposedly it scared me so much that I jumped up and ran all the way home, a couple blocks. My mother told me that I said, "the preacher said I'm going to burn in hell". I've been very reluctant to go to a church service since. I do remember enjoying going inside churches, the ones that keep the doors unlocked always, as a teenager when there was no one there and enjoying the supreme peace and quite.
I grew up in the ELC, and when I was a kid, the divisive issue wasn't the LGBTQ, it was whether women should be allowed to be pastors, and the arguments were heated. One side claimed that women were just as capable of ministry as men were, and allowing women to be ordained was the fair, and proper thing to do. The other side said that the bible states very clearly that women should be quiet in church, and both sides were right. It was the right and proper thing to do, and the bible states very clearly not to do it. So what do you do? The ELC ended up doing the right and proper thing, and it cost them a lot of members.
@@jmg94j So what makes it "right and proper?" There ought to always be a source of morality, an authority you can cite as to what makes a thing right (or wrong); otherwise you are just making your own morality which in today's world is nearly universal anyway. But that's not morality.
@@thomasmaughan4798 Allowing women to be ordained ministers is the right and proper thing to do because women are just as capable of ministering as men are. There is no intelligent reason why women shouldn't be allowed to be pastors. Having a vagina instead of a penis is not an intelligent reason, and that is the only reason the Bible gives us. That's the kind of problem you face when you have a source for your morality? Do you think that you are incapable of determining what is right, and what is wrong without a book to guide you? God gave you a working brain, did he not? Why can't you figure out that the Bible is wrong on this issue?
I was raised in the church and quit going when I left home. I still consider myself a Christian and believe in God and Jesus. I think a lot of young people want to be religious however don't go or quit going to church because I hate to say it the people who do go to church every Sunday, Sunday night and Wednesday are the most judgmental and hypocritical people out there. Also with the invention of streaming, you tube, and podcast people can listen to a pastor, minister etc at home. People can also study the bible on their own without be preached at. These are just some of my thoughts and opinions.
Very interesting and i dare say you're somewhat accurate on the matter. Do you think next generation will attend church virtually instead of physically?
Xennial here. I went to a very mainline PCUSA church as a kid. I've long since become atheist. When visiting my old neighborhood, I decided to have a wander through the old building. It's definitely very much changed to be more like a modern evangelical mega-church in style. Like, they have one of those shields of a rock band on stage, and they have the youth do a christian rock band as part of one of the programs. They split the middle schoolers and high schoolers up by gender. There is definitely an almost evangelical vibe, where as when I was there as a kid it was very *not* evangelical. Also, it's so polished, it's harder to tell it's a building from the 1890s. Non-denominational churches definitely are their own denomination, with shared beliefs. They aren't like Unitarian Christians. I have investigated that also. It's just a label they use to try to seem like they don't.
You don't just walk into a church as an atheist just for old times sake. I was like you when I was in my late teens, early twenties. Something happened or you saw some behavior out of people that was wrong and made you angry at them and God, that is my guess (you also will deny this and say I have no clue what I am saying). It set you down a road looking for another way for "freedom". There is no freedom where you are. Whoever wronged you or the behavior you saw that is on them, that wasn't God. God will always walk beside you and be waiting for you to come back. You walked away from him, but He is still shadowing you and keeping you. It took me awhile to see I was wrong, I still don't like "churchy" people and they make me sick, but God's grace is for all. It is your life, I just mean this as encouragement. Take it or leave it. For me it was a poisonous anger, and most of the people I have seen in this situation it is the same. Be well and best of luck, whatever you choose!
@neutral toxic RUclips is a social platform like any of the rest. Watts and my comments are fair. The OP doesn't have to respond to either if they don't want, fair enough. I wish them well, their reasons for the decision is their own (they/their is being used in singular sense, sort of screwy sorry). I normally watch GunTubers and history videos and there is plenty of discussion on there. Have a good one everyone and be well!
@@benjaminwatt2436 That is realllyy not the way to broach that question, friend. The way you worded it sounds like the equivalent of “Why did you decide to betray your own dignity and become a heathen?”
Thanks for your informative video. My congregation (a member of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America) was founded in 2013 by members of a declining congregation who decided to put it to rest and start something new. We grew until 2019, when the sudden departure of our first pastor, quickly followed by the COVID pandemic, initiated a new decline. We now have a new pastor; it's too soon to say whether we can turn things around. Much of our 2013-2019 growth came from disaffected Roman Catholics and disaffected evangelicals. It seems that progressive Christianity can attract new members--but admittedly examples are few.
One question Joshua on the numbers given concerning the decline. How honest are the self reported numbers? I know congregations that have people on the membership rolls that haven't set foot in the church in 30 or 40 years. It seems some are never removed unless they die or move 500 miles away. I know of one case where the guy grew up in the church but married and attends the wife's church but is still considered a member in his original church. I also remember hearing of minister who was shocked when asked to do a funeral for a local man. The minister didn't even know he was a member because no one from the family had attended or was visited in years.
I live in an odd area where church attendance is higher than average for the USA (but still pretty low IMHO), but church membership is lower than average for the USA. We had one minister (now deceased) in our town who performed far more funerals than any other. His specialty was to do funerals for people who had no connection to any church. He was a United Methodist minister, but he was the pastor of an American Baptist church. He did not have the best reputation among more faithful churchgoers around these parts.
I know at our church (large urban PCUSA) we’ll see a couple hundred any given Sunday, then up to 3-4 times that on Easter and Christmas. The nominal membership is closer to the holiday numbers.
Interesting that the Amish-a group of people who separate themselves from the world, build their entire community and culture around their faith, are stigmatized by the secular world, and live their faith unashamedly and without compromise-are the Christian’s seeing the most growth. Now, I know there are plenty of examples sin and scandal in the Amish. They have their problems. But many of us “worldly” Christians have a thing or two to learn from the Amish
As my Eastern Orthodox professor says, “the Amish are excellent construction workers, but they have a weird interpretation of reformed Calvinism.” Too many heresies.
Hey lelouch, why don't you act on Romans 2: 29 and acknowledge what's happening with neonatal fibroblasts sales? Don't panic when you realize what's happening. Pray harder, spread the word among your fellow Catholics.
@@robot5546 I know there are bad people in the Catholic Church just like there are bad people everywhere. I dislike the people who do those things. Most of the time those type of people are kicked out of the Church. My Church doesn’t have that problem because my area only has two Catholic Churches and the same priest does the mass at both and if something out of the ordinary happened my community would know about it.
I have been Catholic all my life. I grew up in Chicago Illinois but moved to North Carolina nearly 25 years ago. One thing I have noticed in the Catholic church is that Catholics are leaving the northern cities for the south. I know several of the churches in the area I lived in Chicago have massively shrinking populations. That being said here in NC they are opening new Catholic churches at a rapid rate.
When you look at the Catholic Church side of this, I would recommend looking at Latin mass vs new mass (traditional vs the main stream if you will). I’m Catholic, grew up in the norvus ordo or mainstream church. It’s had some vibrancy here and there, but follows the path of every Protestant group you mentioned. We found the traditional Latin mass a few years ago, a small subset if you will. Families are large, rivaling that of even the Amish, parishes are growing left and right, seminaries are being built and within a few years, turning men away due to over capacity. Heck, the SSPX just built a 45million dollar church in st Mary’s, Kansas, and they will most likely fill that church in a generation. It’s a night and day difference, and really comes down to emphasizing the hard truths or being open and welcoming to the worlds beliefs. You call people to greatness in Christ, you will attract followers. You say youre ok as you are, no need to change, then people will see no difference between society and this belief.
Yep, I converted to Catholicism last year, particularly in a latin mass parish and even in the short time I've been there it keeps growing, multiple baptisms of both babies and adults, weddings, people moving across the country to be near to the church
@@willp.8120 WRONG ! You have been fed errornous information. Please go to official Catholic Church sources and you will discover its not a works based religion
The only thing that sucks about this is that the churches can be beuatiful historic buildings, that might end up getting abandoned. Some churches in my city got converted, and some of them are kind of brutalist so i wont mind seeing those ones demolished.
Why fighting? Our society will eventually become polarized. People will do whatever please their eyes (or the heart desire). Thousand years ago and thousand year later, the human psyche stay the same, except we are bombarded with so many distractions of modern life to truthfully ask ourselves what is the meaning of life. Mental illnesses are on the rise, violent crime are on the rise. Research shows as the happiness are declining since 1990 despite of income level and socioeconomic improvement. With the boom of technology for portable device and remarkably with the invention of iphone in the year of 2007 along with invention of social media Facebok (2004), twitter (2006), we have witnessed the most interconnected of information in human history. Are we smarter than ancient people in the Bible? i don't have the answer, but our attention span is soon less than a goldfish. Somehow, our society has "miss the mark" even further into chaos in the last decay.
@@ianbuick8946 Without technology we would be living in misery. If we were still using vacuum tube TV's we would need 100x more electricity. Without the ability to generate Ammonia, many would starve. Without Dynamite, our modern society could not exist. The list goes on. I see Religion stopping humanity from moving forward. 10% of the worlds population has an IQ below 80 and that means they can barely feed themselves. I do feel sorry for people that are addicted to their phones and the apps. Caesar killed up to a million Gaul's in his campaigns mainly because growth is the only way to keep civilizations going. Genghis Khan killed 10% of the population etc. The old days were nasty for most of the population.
It's hard to gauge because they don't separate out the "rice christains". I grew up in a fundamentalist cult in the 70's/80's and religion had power in the schools / workplace. Now it is very rare to have to pay for the 'shakedown turkey dinners etc." I haven't heard anyone talk about religion in years compared to the 90's, there was always a "god's grace john 3:16 nut" around. @@user-ne1ct2ev5z
Was raised a Christian but became an atheist maybe 20 years ago. I’ve been dating a lady from Laos for 3 years now and I have to say I like the Buddhist outlook on life and rules for how to live quite a lot more than Christian one’s. It’s about being mindful and generally not abusing yourself or nature and other creatures. It’s not about worshipping Buddha himself or saying he created the universe and you must believe in him to not suffer eternally. Either way I know some people need that outlook to have a moral compass and structure to their lives.
Yes, mindfulness practice is on the trend. To distant yourself from the reality to achieve the state of calmness. Christianity offer one that better: Quiet time with the Lord. Speaking of moral compass, where do we get moral compass from?
@@ianbuick8946we certainly don't get our moral compass from God,or Jesus....have you ever read the old testament? and then there's Jesus telling people he comes with a sword,and do not go amongst the gentiles
Could anyone explain to me how LGBT negatively effected attendance in these mainline churches? He shows the graph where all of the churches have declining membership since the 70s and says that LGBT has hurt them on the way down. I would appreciate marks on the graph to show where they changed their LGBT stance and if that speed or slowed the change. One church had an uptick.
It's not just the LGBT stuff, but I think he's probably right. Liberal-leaning folks are more likely to to just give up religion altogether while conservatives will stay religious, but revolt if you so much as whiff LGBT acceptance or female pastors. Basically, it's not that being pro-LGBT is unpopular overall (quite the opposite in fact), it's that the people who stick around and be active are more likely to be anti-LGBT.
@@Colddirector I am not sure. Eventually progressive stances become conservative. My grandma could not legally have a bank account. Conservative people I know know would not support those laws. Even if they think that women should get permission from men they acknowledge the inconvenience. Young people I know who are conservative cannot even conceive of rules like that. For them they never knew that lifestyle existed so they don't know to conserve it.
We know this happened because as soon as the mainline announced lgbt support we see a schism or breakaway of churches formerly aligned with the mainline. He describes some.of these breakaway groups.
I use to be in a Presbyterian church that left PCUSA to join ECO. It was more the PCUSA leaving the Evangelical Christians the the first shot fired was alternative lifestyle ordained pastors and the final straw was that Jesus is not THE Way but just another way. That violates John 14:6.
It isn’t that people want something fresh, it’s that they want only what aligns with what they believe. My mom became Southern Baptist and devoted decades to her church, but a new pastor had her shopping for a new faith. Weirdly, she started watching Oprah’s Super Soul Sunday, which hosted a variety of people with different spiritual and religious ideas and it was awesome to see her reclaiming her identity before she died. I watched as several churches in our area went through divisions of the congregation over interpretation of the Bible. I found it ironic that a religion based upon forgiveness would splinter over not forgiving variations in understanding. Mainly, though, my observation was that church attendance to ALL denominations was dropping across the nation. In 2018 I was looking for a place to move to and researched dozens of towns from the west coast to the east coast. ONE town out of all of them I looked at had growth in church attendance…just one. And that was even happening as populations were increasing.
I assume you passed over Utah entirely, whose population of 4 million is 60% Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Outside Salt Lake County the proportion is 80%. Church membership is growing with population. Ironically, in that more religious society, Catholic and Protestant churches are much more prosperous as well. People feel free to live their religious beliefs in public.
@@raymondswenson1268 Mormons are no longer having as many kids as they used too. It used to be 80% of Mormon youth stayed Mormon as adults. Its down to like 55% now.
Interesting. Well. The writing has been on the wall for a long time. This decline does explain the extremism and, frankly, hysteria that has been showing up in certain denominations in recent years. My fear is that some of these denominations (the more radically congregationalist ones) will have a cultural panic and slowly morph into dangerous cults. There's already a couple churches that have gone this direction in the past eight years. Be careful.
As a Briton, I found this really interesting. It was fascinating to see the decline in membership of mainline Christian churches and to compare that with the growth of some evangelical churches in the US. Thought your discussion of the impact of LGBT+ issues on mainstream churches and the growth of conservative congregations was well balanced.
I'm Romanian, and while I was born into a family with a charismatic father, I'm seriously disillusioned with his beliefs and those of charismatic church as well as many modern evangelical "churches" that are now little more than public venues for people to get their ears tickled. I'm seriously considering returning to Orthodoxy. My only two reservations are the kissing/kneeling before icons and the idea that you need to pray to Mary to get a message to God. I'm not sure if the latter is an official doctrine like in the Catholic church, but I personally have no biblical evidence to support it and the kissing icons thing seems a bit dangerous to me as it might be seen as idolatry by God. My only other reservation is tge idea that an infant is capable of making the conscious decision to get baptized. See when I convert I'd get baptized in the water, symbolizing my death to sin and rebirth as a true follower of Christ, but an infant is incapable of making that decision. Perhaps you can explain what the church's official doctrines are on these things and what the biblical evidence is for these practices, or if they are simply old traditions that aren't strictly required by the Bible? I'd really like to know, but my Father is old and set in his ways, so I don't expect an accurate and unbiased answer from him even though he was born Orthodox.
A short response to that... there are a lot of simplified explanations (even in this video), to try to grasp a very complex change in the world. Different countries have different social changes... by time more and more will change, so while X don´t happen yet in country 1, it will most likely happen to some degree in coming years. Some example here... Pentecostals were happy that THEY were the ones (praying and having the right theology - and THEREFORE God spared them from decline) while other churches slowly declined downwards. That argument stopped in my country some 7 years ago, when THEIR churches too started to decline, and have continued decline since that. This nonsense and huge simplification that evangelical or conservative churches just grow, and everyone else decline is false and at least simplified. Another Pentecostal church was happy that THEY could keep the numbers of attendants up, while many other couldn´t... well it was shown later that at least some of the people who attended came from Pentecostal congregations nearby that were slowly dying. I´ve seen several evangelical videos discussing how they loose members. here´s one ruclips.net/video/qMgvBSXgYS4/видео.html "Evangelical churches LOSES slower than some mainline..."
I was raised an Evangelical Lutheran. Our church at it's peak had about 500 members, and there was about 350-400 in attendance on any given Sunday. Today that church claims about 150 members, but there is only between 40-60 that actually show up for Sunday service. Of the ones that show up, at least half are 70 or older. The only way this church will survive is if other ELCs close, and their members transfer over, and even that is only going to be a stay of execution. Within 40 years, they will all be closed.
I am retired clergy in Indiana Conference UMC. We are a theologically pluralistic church. For me, personally, the Enlightenment was a double edged sword. We gained science, but came to view scripture as myth. (Rudolph Bultmann). This one size fits all approach to scripture has damaged us badly. I describe myself as an Evangelical Catholic in the Wesleyan tradition. I have maintained my Orthodox and Evangelical viewpoints, but am broader and more eclectic. The splintering we are experiencing has come about over a fifty year plus period of time. I am sad.
What's damaged us badly is peddling religious lies, delusions, superstitions, fairy tales & wishful thinking as a viable alternative to facts, evidence, science & reason.
@@GeorgeStar I agree. But there is a way out of the dilemma as it is written in the Book of John. Jesus is the Logos. If Christians actually asked what does the Logos mean they would have a path. The Logos has several meanings: Reason (Socrates), Ethical Reason right Logos (Aristotle), or Heraclitus universal divine reason, immanent in nature, yet transcending all oppositions and imperfections in the cosmos and humanity. An eternal and unchanging truth present from the time of creation, available to every individual who seeks it. Obviously the Catholic Church emphasized the Aristotle understanding of right Logos, a Christian ethical philosophy. But why should Christianity suddenly abandon deductive reasoning if that too is a type of Logos. Just because some things can’t be read literally? This bizarre notion of total Biblical literalism or Biblical inerrancy IMO is idolatry, a false idol. It is also easily proven false and ahistorical. I noticed many atheists have no clue in regards Analogical Reasoning of ethical reasoning which is all over the Bible. The way they dismiss Christianity is by being abjectly ignorant. I don’t advocate for rational chauvinism, and there are other dimensions like the Holy Spirit, visionary experience such as Paul’s which are other dimensions not pure reason. But I truly believe the dismissal of the Logos in its multi-dimensional meaning is a rejection of Jesus. I remember reading of an archeological dig in Oxyrhynchus, Egypt where they found a man buried with two books the Gospel of Matthew and Euclid’s Geometry, Euclid was applying deductive reasoning to geometry. I think early Christian’s knew exactly what Jesus is the Logos really meant.
Anyone who doesn't recognize the Bible as mythology is denying reality. The evidence is overwhelming. And it's awful mythology, depicting a God who mandates genocide, slavery, misogyny, homophobia, infanticide, etc. And that's not limited to the OT.
@@matthewkopp2391 Thank you, Matthew, for an informed response. I have observed over decades that extreme sides in arguments set up straw men (people) or use cliches to attack others, instead of dialogue. Their approaches are uninformed, often driven by old wounds and residual anger. Posturing based on ideological “orthodoxy” is built around beating people down, not building them up.
When you make your video regarding the Catholic growth/decline, please try to include the numbers for the Anglican Ordinariate. Our parish is roughly one year old, but our attendance numbers have exploded.
I was raised in a mainline denomination but, in my 20s, found evangelical churches that seemed more faithful to the Bible. In 40 years of observation since then, it seems that most churches in decline bring it on themselves. There are few innocent victims.
I was raised in a mainline church, heard the gospel outside of that church as a teenager and came to faith, and have worshiped in conservative and evangelical congregations where the gospel is preached ever since.
I'm organist/pianist for a mainline Presbyterian church in the Bay Area. I'm 73 and one of the younger people in attendance. I'm there because it's a paid position. I expect to be without this job in three years. Like many mainline churches, this church expanded by leaps and bounds after WW2. Now half of the space is empty. The Methodist church I grew up in, just 12 miles away, has shut down and the buildings are for sale. Church members are dying and no one is replacing them. They continue to be hopeful that attendance will grow, but come on! Look at reality.
You should make a video like this for Catholicism (Roman and Eastern) and Orthodoxy. I know that denominations centered around immigrant communities (like Maronites and Melkites) tend to have higher attendance than others.
I predict that the bulk of Eastern Catholicism’s growth this decade would be from immigration in the past year for obvious reasons. The bulk of Orthodoxy’s growth this decade would be from Protestants and Nones converting. Roman Catholicism would have a mixture of steady immigration and conversion from Protestantism and Irreligion that has increased substantially since 2020.
@@lesinge8868 in the Eastern Orthodox Church, there has been only modest growth in the past 20 years relative to the U.S. population as a whole, but an interesting trend is that it is comprised less and less of cradle immigrants and more and more native U.S. converts. It’s also the youngest church by attendant age, with an average age 8 years below the average U.S. citizen, and it’s the only church whose average age is actively getting younger. Only some Pentecostals can boast demographics half as impressive as these. Catholics are doing all right, but they’re treading water instead of swimming forward. Other churches (all of them) are getting older and older on average.
My previous church lost all of the younger generations After the pandemic. Services went virtual because of covid. Around this time, the church received a new pastor, who supported continuing virtual worship and waiting before reopening in-person services. However, some of the older members disagreed and apparently began forming a campaign against the pastor. I believe there were a series of other disagreements between those older members and the pastor, which I suspect related to political leanings, but I cannot remember them. At any rate, the church eventually split into two camps supporting the pastor and opposing him, with the opposing side aiming to terminate his position. They succeeded eventually, and the members who had supported the pastor, which happened to include all of the families with children (and my family as well), left to join churches in other towns. I have no idea how that old church will survive since they lost half their members and practically all future members as well.
As a non-religious person, its interesting to hear why religious people think their churches are losing attendees. It’s not how the churches treat women, its not the sexual abuse scandals, its not the prudish sex negativity, it’s not how the church views queer people, its not how they have failed to adapt their message to a modern world. No, its that they didn’t double down on their conservative world view, or they don’t do enough outreach. People know your message; it just doesn’t resonate with them. The world has changed, radically so, and churches need to radically change to keep up with it and I just don’t think the old men in charge of these churches are capable of that. When I hear someone is religious, I immediately think they are a bible thumping bore who’s going to judge me and how I live my life. If you want to convert people, you need to change that perception.
To some extent both, but people aren't becoming atheists at the rate a lot of people claim. Most people who are leaving churches simply don't see a reason to go.
@@Triumph263The younger generations are abandoning religion. You can label them however you want, if it's comforting. But religion is on the decline and it's about time. The Enlightenment was centuries ago and we've KNOWN for a long time that the Bible is mythology.
Just read a news article that shared the SBC, one of the largest mainline denominations, has dropped roughly 3 million since 2006. This is about an 18-19 percent decrease from a peaking 16 million membership. Article stated that this last year they have lost nearly a half a million memberships and link that decline to a number of difference possible reasons. 1.) People leaving religion in general 2.) The covid pandemic 3.) The internal power grab within the SBC and 4.) The sexual abuse claims that started to come out about leadership.
I’d be wary of believing news articles written in the moment. The SBC churches I’ve addended haven’t seen a slump in attendance, but have seen a rebound since the pandemic.
@@christinacody8653, that, too. The big thing that keeps up church attendance and membership is offering things like daycare service or youth programs.
all those things except depression, drug use and (arguably) stupidity peaked in the 80s... lead paint and de-industrialization did a number on gen x'ers
Regardless of what people think of why these Mainline Churches are declining, I think out reach would be a good idea regardless. One of the main tenants of the Bible is charity and giving, open up soup kitchens in the church on weekdays, donate to food banks, do fundraisers to give to charities to help the poor, sick and hungry.
We have a welfare state, so save your virtue signaling for suckers. Churches shouldn't be in the welfare business, unless your goal is to accelerate the decline of Christianity.
Most mainline churches are extremely involved in outreach. And pretty much everybody in the community benefits from it, even if they don't know about it (which they probably don't). Just my little Methodist church does the following: we contribute to and staff the local food pantry, we visits nursing home residents who have no visitors, we offer a free meal to anyone every Wednesday night, we tutor at the local elementary school, we pay for hotel rooms and other emergencies as requested by social workers (and they DO call), we subsidize a community preschool, we allow the Scouts and AA and the 4H groups to meet at the church at no cost, we sponsor blood drives and kid events like community Easter egg hunts and fishing derbies, we feed 200+ inner city folks at a nearby feeding center several times a year, and we allow the election board to use our property every Election Day. That's just the local stuff, and I'm not even including the contributions to overseas missions, the contributions to college scholarships, and the inevitable November-December contributions to the various Christmas drives. And my church isn't an exception. I've attended several mainline churches over the past 40 years and they are ALL like that.
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I am a non denominational protestant Atheist . Why is youtube recommending this to me ? The Catholic church raped my uncle .
The problem with religion in Europe is postmodernism, and it started with the Holocaust. The feeling is that all grand philosophies including religion inevitably lead to tyranny, so it's best not to have any.
Before having faith in God, I suppose you have to have faith in faith.
What about church of scientology?
What is the voter participation of these denominations? Do the Amish vote?
You should have shown the current membership of the United Methodist and Transgenderist church for the last year, a lot of churches are breaking off it.
One question every church leader and member have to ask themselves is: if we close our doors for good, will our neighborhood or city even notice it or miss us?
probably not...
COVID lockdowns answered that question for many downtown churches.
If your church isn’t active in your neighborhood then yeah. No one will notice or care.
I would say no…
The answer is a proven NO!
I watched a post of a church turned into a nightclub and they said more than 20 times the people showed up compared to when it was a church.
As a Gen Z, when I was in high school, I was one of the few that actually went to church regularly on Sundays. My generation is simply not religious at all. Even the self-proclaimed Christians weren't really Christians. They simply claimed that because their parents also claimed to be Christians and they'd occasionally come to church on Christmas or Easter.
They "claim" they are not religious but they all embrace different religions. Secularism, spirituality, scientism, etc. It's just inherent in our nature to believe in something.
@@thomasc9036
none of what you named are religions though. Belief is not the same as religious belief.
I'm always extremely skeptical of someone who claims secularism is a belief system or in opposition to religion, despite the fact that most believers in secularism are religious. It seems either you don't know what secularism is, or you want your brand of Christianity to rule our lives like some christian version of Saudi Arabia.
i can tell you at least part of the reason gen z is so antichurch, as a fellow gen z that majority of other gen z are very much traumatized by especially american evangelical christianity. for example a good friend of mine grew up extreme pentecostal because of his family, and can no longer listen to the Word or be in a church without serious flashbacks. which is unfortunate for a lot of reasons, i know he could benefit from the Word but i respect his past/present and don't push anything. i know this experience is shared by a lot of gen z folks and informs their objections to all of christianity, and pushes them elsewhere, far far away from christianity. ironically extreme theology quite literally beat into you as a child from birth a lot of the time actually produces atheists and witches. see the rather large ex evangelical witch community
I was born in 2000, so older Gen Z, and I see the exact same thing you see. I do think that Zoomers want hope and guidance, hence God, but their parents never really went to church as a family or taught them about Christ. Now that they're older, Christian Zoomers feel lost and don't know what to do. I more or less blame the parents, but that's a whole different can of worms to get into.
It's not that there aren't Zoomers who believe, some certainly do, they just don't know how to act on it, and that's a bit sad but I can't blame them.
@@calebr7199 Secularism is a belief system. You can deny all you want but still doesn't change the fact. Here is a link that you may want to read.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secular_religion
I can't speak for other denominations, but as a former Episcopalian, they keep non active members on the books. And many of the smaller episcopal churches don't have the staff to do any kind of correct record keeping. My husband, who never joined the Episcopal church, but did attend with me, gets letters from the diocese once a year begging money. And my baptism records stopped being transferred decades ago, even when I was active. With that knowledge, I feel like their decline is far worse than they report.
Same here. I never "moved my letter" from one parish to another. I know I am on the books of three churches as probably a couple more.
Average weekly attendance was dismal before the pandemic and now it is circling the drain.
So many are stuck with old buildings that suck the money out of mission.
An excellent question. Are these numbers self-reporting? I can't imagine getting all these churches to agree on a common-method of counting their denomination, let alone trust that every one will report honestly!
My mother was a lapsed Baptist. A laptstist? Because she never joined another church she was always listed as a member of the church she grew up in (and deeply resented).
here is Dr Ron Paul R-TX USAFNG Capt Ret left the Episcopalian hurch because the church backed Abortion (AKA Infatcide) by the way
According to the Lily foundation, which is a foundation that helps Episcopal churches reach people, there is growing interest in people returning to church. People want to raise their children with a Christian background. They just often don't know how to do it and churches really don't know how to engage young families either. My church is growing, it's not super noticeable but we have more kids in Sunday school on the regular. Although admittedly some may be poached from the Anglican Church that left the Episcopal Church when people started going to it and then found out they didn't agree politically with the Anglican Church of North America, and we're right across the street.
I got kicked out of my church for the mortal sin of… going away to college for 2 years. When they found out I was going to be staying in A dorm they called me to tell me I’m not a member anymore. They told me if I’m not attending that specific church I’m not a member. And they were taking me off their books.
I used to be a Presbyterian. If that was their attitude I have no intention of going back.
I hear you and this is where the new "non denominational" is headed. They just filled off the serial numbers and added rock music and beer but its the same old pharisees.
@@mortonstromgal It's all nonsense. All of it.
As a (conservative) Presbyterian, that is insane. I can't believe they'd do that to you.
Many churches this is common. It is best to transfer your membership to a local church where you go to college. Nothing wrong with transferring your membership or being a member of a local church where you are going to be able to attend. I fail to understand how this is interpreted by you to be a bad thing, when it is a good thing. It's unfortunate that you could not see the real solution in seeking out a similar church where you were attending college and somehow instead took this personal. That was not the intention of the church. Regardless I'm sorry that you took this stance here and hope that you might use this video to find a new church.
@@miketech79 No, the real question is how could YOU twist this so much.
I'd say that it's more that the role mainline churches have historically played in American Christianity is becoming obsolete. They were the big-tent denominations that people ended up in through social, familial, or cultural inertia when they hadn't made a conscious decision to practice elsewhere. In a world where Christianity is more of an opt-in culture than an opt-out one, the "true believers" are increasingly moving towards denominations and congregations filled with the like-minded while the less committed just leave altogether since there isn't as much social stigma attached to not being a churchgoer.
My late grandfather had not a spiritual bone in his body, but still sent his kids to church because that's just what you did in those days. He picked a Lutheran congregation because it was the closest church to his house and he figured that one church was as good as another for fulfilling social expectations. I suspect that were he raising a family nowadays, he probably wouldn't have bothered with the whole charade and just become one of the "nones".
Very good point
Good news
Idk, I'm atheist and my kids go to church because they are not atheist, and also because it usually provides a social and cultural standard of correct behavior and actions versus incorrect behavior and actions, aka right and wrong.
While we are becoming less so, I will agree with Richard Dawkins that abandoning Christian values is going to destroy the west, even if I don't agree with him about much else.
@@azurephoenix9546 Christianity is dying because it's based in lies mistranslated on purpose
Yeah I do think thats the case. I believe many churches are no longer very active as they once were in the communties they serve as well like doing outreach, community events etc.
Secularization is an issue on the conservative side too - so much of it getting sucked up into outright politics with religion co-opted into the culture war narrative.
"Secularization"??
People are waking up to the fact--as demonstrated by overwhelming evidence--that the Bible is mythology.
@@balala7567 it’s a real challenge - often the big donors that keep the church doors open have an agenda.
When it comes to sexual abuse or domestic violence, for example, who’s going to speak out about it if the abuser pays their salary?
We had a situation in our church with a young adults group leader that sexually assaulted one of the group members… but his family was a major donor. He ended up losing the leadership position but that’s about it (if there was some police involvement I’d be surprised, sexual assault by a rich white guy isn’t a case they like to take). Maybe just a rumor but the people I heard it from I trust on other things.
Incidents like that make me doubt church leadership, but sad reality is that any church that’s been around for a while has some skeletons in the closet.
It’s not an issue, it’s a solution
@@stephen8342 I suppose if the goal was to kill Christianity and let the hermit crab of politics wear the shell it’s a solution.
Wouldn’t be new, it’s what we fought against in 1776.
@Kent Stallard
Of course there's corruption in it. There's people in it.
But the real issue there isn't that people suck, it's that there's no church discipline because it could mean losing members, and money.
Then I have to ask why are you there?
I remember in high school when my English teacher (not a Christian) was explaining the Mainline Churches and their cultural influence in America to my class (majority non-Christian). As it turns out, almost none of us had met a self-identified Presbyterian, Lutheran, or Episcopalian in our entire lives. What Christians were in that class were either nondenom Evangelicals or Catholics, and they hadn't heard of the so-called Mainline Churches either. That was 10 years ago in California. The only people I know for sure to have attended Mainline churches are my mom's mom (who stopped going in the 80s) and my dad's dad, a lifelong Episcopalian. I always find the term Mainline curious, because to me it seems like these churches haven't been in the majority or culturally relevant for some 30 years now.
They need a new name
To be fair, members of mainline churches do not go around declaring themselves to be members of their church, whereas evangelical Christians constantly do.
Mainline here I think is all about how longstanding the building is. When factions split, the liberal churches usually get the building since it's the conservatives that leave.
I think it also depends on location. For Lutherans as an example if you come to Minnesota/Wisconsin and the surrounding states you'll find many more than say out in California. Not sure where the other types of Christian denominations congregate.
Not "culturally relevant"? The culture shifted because the Mainline churches shifted them to this way. The reason Mainline churches are mostly silent is that the culture is where they wanted it to be.
The decline becomes even more striking when you consider that the US population as a whole grew by nearly 20% since 2000.
It's reasonable to believe that the population is increasing rapidly thanks to migration
Many churches function as social clubs rather than communities of significant and Spirit-grounded existential depth from my vantage...
@Johnny Rep Yes, Liberation Theology is what I heard it being called. Though that has connotations that are linked to Latin American countries moreso than the West. Though the concept is similar.
Your alternative, "communities of significant and Spirit-grounded existential depth," shows pretty clearly that you do not have the answer.
@@BoondockBrony You need to study a lot more. It has nothing to do with Liberation Theology.
@Johnny Rep What is the "social gospel" and how does it differ from the Gospel?"
@@bibleenglish. Thank you for this wholly delusional reply.
If these older churches have the facilities to do childcare during the workweek, that would be one way for them to reach out to younger families.
There's a shortage of childcare workers who want to do nursery work among Presbyterians. My church in particular pays the most in the county and nobody is biting, it's not facilities it's a labor issue.
I used to belong to a Reformed denomination with mostly old members. Our family was by far the youngest there. Whenever we tried to have activities for younger people as a way to get young outsiders to attend the old people always objected or even stopped it. I kept saying if you gear all your activities toward old people that's all you'll have left some day, and that's what they have now. The old people even insisted on having the church picnic in the basement rather than a park because they didn't want it in the park. We left the church for other reasons than this, but it was apparent the old people didn't want to make an effort to attract young families.
@@GermanShepherd1983 Sounds like what happen to FL, the state.
I feel like the Catholic Church ruined that one for everybody.
I agree. It might help them keep their doors open. Interesting tidbit though, back in the 80s & 90s in some communities some churches ran daycare. When I was in college on the early 90s I remember one church somewhere nearby making the news because they closed their thriving daycare put of belief and conviction that women belonged in n the home and should be raising their children rather than working. And they said they no longer wanted to be a part to enabling women to work outside the home for income. So rather than offering support to poor families they dropped everyone who relied on them to maintain consistency with their firm conviction.
My family is United Methodist. Back in the 2000s - early 2010s, we were already seeing a decline. I attended numerous conferences and meetings trying to address this. At the time, there was a big trend to "modernize" the service with modern music, church bands and removing traditional elements. Frankly, most modern music was poor then. Repetitive and musically incompetent. And the church bands were like listening to a middle school concert repeatedly every Sunday. I advocated for some churches retaining their traditional elements but was repeatedly told that didn't know what I was talking about. It was heart breaking to watch as those in charge were convinced this was the right and only path. Obviously, it wasn't. I have not attended any church in many years. It was too painful to watch my congregation die.
Personally I find home churches to be the best they are like mini churches averaging around 5 to 20 members (Usually depending on the size of the home it’s hosted in.)
and was very nice. What made it nice is that it’s easy to get to know everyone making the whole church part of your community instead of nameless people who show up once a week.
The United Methodist has been apostate for many years now. They ordain women as pastor which is unBiblical and they belong to the World Council of Churches which is part of the ecumenical movement/Globalism heresy. Try to find faithful believers that meet in a home.
Those who marry The Present find themselves widowed in The Future.
Find a Church that still reads and preaches from the true Holy Bible ,the 1611-1769 AV majority manuscript text bible in English , ( commonly miss called the KJB or KJV, should only be titled the 'Holy Bible' period), One that has true Holy Spirit lead praise and worship music whether it be the old traditional , new, or a mix of both.
I’m sorry to hear about this. If I may encourage you, there are many United Methodist churches out there that still have their traditional elements. If you’re interested, I can help you get connected to a map of good ones and to people who know all about them.
There has been a general decline in church attendance in the last 75 years as incomes and living standards grew along with pervasive consumer materialism. This is true not only in the USA, but in developed economies generally. What has not declined is a cultural belief in fairness and truth, especially in the young. Alongside growing materialism has grown a global economy dominated by large corporations with an international mix of shareholders who for the most part adhere to no moral standards while falsely professing to do so, including oil companies advertising how green, socially responsible, moral and honest they are and that they are working towards the improvement of the lot of humanity. Of course, this is all part of the soulless money making machine. TV evangelists like Kenneth Copeland, Paula White perfectly reflect Matthew 7:15. "Beware false prophets who come to you in sheeps clothing, for beneath they are as ravening wolves."
Yeah.
Oil companies are businesses governed by shareholders
If they were not trying ro make money, it would be dishonest. That would be a sin in itself.
The false prophet in sheep's clothing was Paula White's golden goose, Donald Trump. Although to anyone that isn't mushy brained and easily manipulated already knew Trump was a ravening wolf in wolf's clothing.
There's very little evidence that income and living standards are directly related to religiosity. While it is true that there is correlation, the existence of multiple examples to the contrary, particularly wealthy Arab Muslim nations and Israel, show that it's just a guide not a rule. Or, perhaps more curiously, it is down to Christianity alone and nothing else. Because this trend fails to occur in non-Christian countries, where rising incomes appear to have little effect on religiosity.
One can probably make the same conclusion on Thailand and China, although data on Buddhists there is a little harder to gather. And Japan and South Korea aren't really shrinking in religiosity either (permitting ignoring them being majority atheist for the last century anyway) In fact, South Korea and Japan are one of the few places on earth which are more religious today than 50 years ago. In the 2015 census, half of Seoul's residents said they attend religious services weekly. Given Seoul's population of 10.3 million it's probably safe to say more people attend religious services in Seoul than the top 10 most populated cities in US combined.
It's not a religion issue, it's a Christianity issue. Or at least white-Christianity issue.
@@varsoo1 you're right. that's a big reason, but it's far from being the only one. freedom from religion was a big part of it's decline. you give the people the freedom to opt out, they opt out. Education is a big part as well, empirical data and science just simply contradict religious faith. religion made big claims it couldn't back up in the long run for the educated mind to believe in.
Young people rightly recognize religion as the main source of injustice and falsehoods. You have it completely backwards.
This is a great channel. I so appreciate the way you lay out the facts as objectively as possible. On the rare occasion you include some editorial commentary, it's always well reasoned and clear. Thank you.
As an American, I'm also grateful to live in a country built upon religious freedom where people are able to explore the "competitive American religious marketplace" - Rodney Stark called it. I hope the words of the First Amendment to The Constitution live on forever that, "Congress make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting its free exercise."
There are certain groups out there that would like to change that last statement. I think you know who they are.
Thank you for expressing your opinion. My thoughts are aligned with yours and you explained it better then I could. The only difference is I live in Canada.
@@tomloft2000 Christians? Pretty much the only group in the country that has ever proposed and succeeded in passing religious laws. We having sitting congress members that openly call themselves Christian Nationalists. Might have something to do with being in a 2000 year-old death cult.
I'm sure you're a super nice Christian but that requires you to ignore most of the Bible and interpret every passage without any critical though or knowledge of history. Anyone not willing to go down that rabbit hole is going to become a bad person because they're following the 3000 year old laws of a desert war tribe that were reinterpreted by a 2000 year old apocalyptic preacher.
@@LoriJMarshall What death means? and why have we given a death a meaning it never had?
Death = out from existence? - what proves it? Bible gives another meaning to death.
Biblical meaning for DEATH = existence without GOD in the lake of fire.
Souls, do not place REALITY into the box of “religions”, for these have nothing to do with one another.
(How can light, which expose the darkness, be in the same box with the darkness? Or can a friend and enemy work together?).
I am not in "Christian-ism ", i am in the reality.
As getting saved IN SPIRIT is real thing.
As going to heaven or hell after death = also reality.
Being found worthy to be RAPTURED out from here (without tasting the death, souls going to heaven in the blink of an eyes)
Tribulation - the 7 final years for the kingdom of satan, whom son of dearth this whole world waits for. - also reality.
The Last Christians shall be BEHEADED and going to heaven - also reality.
The parts which "religious"?
It seems that ONE religion is trying to control the whole country right now. And that is unAmerican from your point of view.
I grew up in Roman Catholic Churches that always had solid attendance even with two or three masses on Sundays. Today the Catholic parish I attend has four masses on Sundays and they’re all packed mostly with large young families as well as the elderly, also lots of college students. It’s the University of Virginia parish, Saint Thomas Aquinas led by the Dominican friars
It's it still a "mortal sin" for Catholics to not attend Mass on Sunday?
@@---zc4qt
Yes, it is. You object?
.
Catholics are a cult, with Idol Mary worship and praying to dead saints (necromancy), the Pope is a false prophet who condones sin and doesn't believe in hell. --- Read and obey your KJV Bible instead.
@-- the Bible is the final authority, and the Bible makes a strong case for a 7th day Sabbath, Sunday worship was not popular until the 4th century when emperor Constantine changed the sabbath from 7th day to Sunday. Just because catholics say it's a sin, it does not make it so, man made traditions hold no weight. The Bible definition of sin is transgression of God's Law ( 1 John 3:4), and the 7th day sabbath is a commandment of God.
@@pathue1196
the Bible is the final authority, and the Bible makes a strong case for a 7th day Sabbath, Sunday worship was not popular until the 4th century when emperor Constantine changed the sabbath from 7th day to Sunday. Just because catholics say it's a sin, it does not make it so, man made traditions hold no weight. The Bible definition of sin is transgression of God's Law ( 1 John 3:4), and the 7th day sabbath is a commandment of God.
It's astonishing the amount of Christians say we need to send more missionaries overseas as our nation dwindles in numbers of those professing Christ and Him crucified.
Missionaries should stop. None of you give a crap about Jesus. Just spreading misery
Thank you for sending us in the global south your missionaries. Alot of people being saved as we speak because of american. You should be proud of. Glory to our Lord Jesus Christ. God bless USA❤
The Word needs to be preached more here and attempts to smear and silence Faith need to be stopped.
At the same time, 3rd world countries need more help than we do.
@@finchborat nonsense.
@@JoeGeorge319 It's actually true. I know people who've done month long mission trips to Southern Africa and southeast Asia. Poor people in America are wealthy compared to the people in those places.
We belong to one of three Catholic Churches in our county in NC. We have been here 11 yrs and the parish has grown tremendously. When we moved here the parish was largely older. Now the masses are very full and many more younger families. Lots and lots of kids now.
Migration. Other catholic churches lost those members. And your experience is not a statistic.
@@kennethhymes9734 You are correct that the great majority of new members are from other parishes. We do however have a number of folks who are converting from other religions or non religions. All I attempted to do was show that generalizations are not always accurate
@@donb782 Catholicism is real Christianity.
@@jeffreyrodrigoecheverria2613Based
I was one of those conversions to Catholic. While I told its not a conversion from other Christian denominations, just coming in to full communion. I grew up Pentecostal/Apostolic. I feel the traditions of Catholic Church are that of close to original Christian Church, while we will never get as close, I feel its the closest to blending those Judaic and Christian traditions and teaching the truth. The issues is Religion is flawed because its man made. I like the Catholic Church teaches the bible within 3 years (A,B,C) with readings and homilies. Other demoninations / non-denominations is they take scriptures from the bible to fit their message, not fitting the message to the actual scripture.
Im 41 now, when i was a kid in the 80s and 90s every church in my town was full. Now 4 of them are, the rest all but abandoned. There were 200 memebers at my UMC church where i was baptized. It closed 5 years ago. The church across the street, the one down a block all the same. I got confirmed catholic this easter and the parish i go to is almost full every week. Also its the only church near me that isnt segregated which i find extremely refreshing.
The Catholic churches I've been too here are always packed, which isn't the norm across the US, I've heard.
That's one thing everyone has to admit the Catholics have going for them: their churches are always integrated. You'll see Latinos, Koreans, Filipinos, whites, Africans, and even Texans all at the same mass.
Conservative Catholic congregations do well, and traditionalist parishes do even better. It is hard for demographers to measure that, as all will say that they are Catholic, but the trends reported on in this video are happening to us, too.
@nicholasshaler7442 Yeah I can totally see what you mean. The German Bishops are very unpopular and may schism over their heretical LGBT beliefs. How many members would we lose if pope francis had the same attitude that they have? I think Francis is looking pretty conservative lately. He openly condemns transgender ideology, the ukraine war, abortion, and gay marriage. We have the FBI targeting us, the woke mob vandalizing churches, bishops being murdered, and generations of kids born from immigrants. The church is getting stronger the more the world pushes against us.... worldwide the RCC has to be top 3 counter culture institutions now.
Yep I was a doc our church was closed 7 months during the beer flu. That church is closed now. I became Catholic
Most of the Mainline churches adopted a psychological/therapeutic approach to Christian living and practice.
Bingo.
This is spot on. I was an atheist/agnostic most of my life and the only times I went to church (weddings, funerals, family obligations, etc…) it was always just mealy-mouthed self-help pap.
It wasn’t until my mid thirties I ended up actually hearing the gospel and coming to Christ.
They adopted left wing ideology which is contradictory to actual Christian doctrine.
Which means that (o)rthodox American Christians effectively have no place to go except Evangelical Non-Denominational congregations or Rome
@@Dram1984 fake virgin birth story not in the original Hebrew.. lol Jesus is based0 off of Joshua/ yehoshua..
and not complete truth
I have been a Diest most my life. I even was a Deacon for three years to help a church that was in decline. They told me to help get new members and younger members with children. I gave them plenty of ideas to help bring those families in but the elders and powers that be said no. It would cost them zero dollars and they didn't have to change their Dogmatic law. They just didn't want any changes period. I told them the last meeting I was in that, " This church is dying because you want to convert people with fire and brimstone tactics in am Internet world. You do not allow Deacons to do their jobs and you want new volunteers every Sunday to do something they have no trianing for and then get upset when they bailed or screw up."🤦🏼♂️🤦🏼♂️🤦🏼♂️
What kills a church is what will kill and individual. Adaptations. If you can't adapt you die. 🤷🏼🤷🏼
What is killing the church is what is in the bible is actually being told .it says you can beat your slaves as long as they don't die within 3 days .it says you can pass on your slaves to your children as they are your property
Yeah, I agree and feel your pain... and while we don´t have brimstones - some in the leadership (I call it here - the elders) expect young people from the internet/smartphone world to join the mass (Sunday service) AS IT IS!
BUT - I would also like to point out, that there are NO good alternatives either... YES some things could change, but does it change the outflow of people in the long run... I claim NO! This sis of course dependent on culture and more, and I don´t say NO ONE succeeds anywhere... but what I say is that I have NOT heard ideas that after some critical analysis or tests would work in the long run... ideas have been presented hundreds of. But in this INDIVIDUAL world, it is HARD to find things that work.
I will never go to a place that tells me I am broken garbage and the only way to be fixed is to beg forgiveness from the supposed one that made me this way
@@brentmiller3951 Exactly! You'll also find a lot of cults are self-help organizations in some way. What easier way is there to recruit than to tell perspective members that they're flawed and only you have the process to fix them?
@@brentmiller3951That’s the opposite of what Protestants do lol
This all speaks to my experience of church. I am in my late 20s and happen to be at the same UMC church that I grew up in, so I have seen this congregation shift for a while now. Our congregation has seen a lot of what was mentioned (declining numbers and aging congregation, old hard to maintain buildings, mergers).
A point that I will add is that in my experience not only is there a decline in number of young people, but there is a decline in the participation of those who do attend. I think when people talk about getting more young people, there is an assumption that young people now will participate in the same way they did previously. When I was a kid my parents (and those in their cohort) came every Sunday and brought us to Sunday school, but also took their own Sunday school classes, helped set up tables and tents for fundraisers, sang in the choir, served on committees, decorated the Church for Advent, etc. We saw the church as our family, and we all loved to participate in many different ways. Now, most of the young families at my church dont participate like that. They come to worship and their kids are in Sunday school, and that it as much at they want. Dont get me wrong, worship and children’s education is valuable and mutual blessing abound from them, but without additional participation it is hard to see how our congregation maintains our building, builds community and supports our missions long term.
I agree with your observations as well as points in the video. Another factor is families are much smaller so an automatic reduction. If yesterday's service is the "new normal" there's no way there'll be enough members to support the huge old building, after the upcoming big split. One thing I never liked with UMC was the revolving door of pastors coming and going. Granted there was a couple I couldn't wait til they moved on but some I was sad to see them go. Hard to develop a relationship with the constant turnover.
Back in the day there was no Playstation 😅.
@@marcusanark2541 what a simpleton take
Lutheran church and probably in a different country (culture)... We don´t have Sunday school anymore(ended some 12 years ago, someone tried some 7 years ago and failed... and none after that. What we still do have are groups for small children a few times for different groups during week days (monday-thursday).
Then we have some youth, however they are NOT interested in Sunday Service... it is outdated, not speaking to them, it´s a weird odd slow culture far from their mobile phones. A few groups of youth between 4-15 participants gathering in a few different groups (once) a month.
Then we have a big number participating in teen confirmation.
Then we have a gap, beside the parents dropping off their children to the child groups, but for 95% they don´t participate themselves.
Then we have a SMALL adult group that gather 3-4 times a year. A small (and dying - Old mens group)
We have diacons reaching out to those needy and poor,. but the clients are not interested in participating either.
We have a youth choir DYING, with only a few members. And then adult (old people´s) choirs.
We have concerts mainly with classical music that gathers people.
In the Sunday service some 30-40 OLD PEOPLE participate (60-85 years old) ... I surely have forgotten some groups, but this is the big picture, the trend.
People do NOT want to participate or give their time in the same scale as they used to. They do not either want to commit themselves for a longer time. Participating in 1-3 events is all they that many need and want.
We are also struggling with maintaining OLD costly buildings.... which affect how much money we have to try to reach out to and gather people.
That's pretty much how our church is going... were basically down to about 10-15 people who do everything and trying to get others involved, is like talking to a brick wall. Covid made that even harder..
Good video. A huge sector you left out is racial minority churches in the US. African American, Latino, Asian churches, etc. Denominations like the Full Gospel Baptist Fellowship and other minority denominations are growing. And others are declining too. Would be great to see a study on those and compare them with the white mainline, Amish and evangelical denominations you featured here.
Redeemed Church is overwhelmingly Nigerian, there's that! And AG is disproportionately immigrant-driven. Recent immigrants to the States are more ardently Christian (esp evangelical/ish) and Muslim than more established groups, which fuels growth.
@@TORLBC thank you. I'm aware of early African church influencing around the world but I'm not that aware of its international reach today, and I wasn't aware of Redeemed Church. 9 million members globally is very inspiring. God is using Nigeria mightily. By His grace I pray Spirit-led churches from other countries will evangelize here in the US and turn many people around who need it, and strengthen and encourage the genuine Christians who are here.
@@TORLBC by AG do you mean Assemblies of God?
Oh I’ve been to the 13% churches before most of them are not religious they’re not talking about Jesus or the way to salvation what you’re talking about is reparations and racist things involving the 13%. They’re not Christian most of them their political I find it disgusting.
@@Americanpatriot-zo2tk you're completely wrong on every level. You don't know at all what you're talking about and it's clear from your false accusations that you're a racist. You need Jesus Christ in your life. Repent of your sins including racism. God says hatred including racism is murder and that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. So turn from satan to Jesus Christ before it's too late for you.
Heathen here, I couldn't ever understand the concept of Christianity. My niece who can, asked me questions I couldn't answer, our quest for information led us here. Thank you, we've both learned from your information. We bonded stronger as a result and that means more to me than I can express.
That used to be a very pejorative categorization. Now (for better, I think) we accept everyone.
You all still exchange gifts at the Winter Solstice, yes?
Alas, you're not alone. Plenty of "Christians" don't understand Christianity either. Here's what Jesus has to say to them...
Luke 6:46 ESV - “Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do what I tell you?
Matthew 7:21-23 ESV - “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
@@1WhoConquersSo YOU have the "correct" interpretation and everyone else has it wrong?
The Bible is inherently ambiguous and contradictory mythology. Which is why there are thousands of Christian denominations.
@@1WhoConquers Read Scriptures in complete context before you start telling or judging others. Why so many are becoming an instant atheist is one reason why just one. You probably know scriptures in context about 20%like most Christians? then think you are made. Well, be careful being called out as a hypocrite.
@@1WhoConquers Jesus was referring this only to the time of his Disciples and before the generation passed away. and why you don't finish the Context but simply CHERRY PICKING will eventually Confuse you later in life. CHERRYPICKING verses cause more turning away than you might lead to think.
18:29 I actually enjoy speaking with the elderly folks at my Catholic Church, especially during the coffee and donuts afterwards. I am astonished how well educated they all are. Listening to their stories is the highlight of my week.
Its so sad how people are leaving traditional worship (like my PCUSA church) and seeking out literal rock concert churches. I say this as a 19 year old.
Nothing against some modern music in Churches, but what is going out is simply so sad, because while not noticing it, people are slowly but consistently losing the sense of the sacred. No doubt the next generations will be less and less loyal to the Faith than the current ones.
Pick Washington National Cathedral's webcasts which is Episcopalian: Yes; they have now a well balanced sort of modern and traditional music toned to today's listeners. It's a well balanced assortment, but always linked to the sacred in such a so joyous manner. Sad they don't have a far larger in presence audience. But their online ministry is on the grow worldwide for a reason.
Same. I don't mind modern music, but church "worship" is supposed to be about reverence and honoring our lord with songs of praise. Saying the same phrases 15 times isn't a "song" , it's laziness. Deliberately trying to copy pop isn't "worship" ,it's disrespect because you're basically saying God is no different than Taylor Swift. I want to go to concert, I'll get tickets thank you. Church is time I choose to dedicate to honoring God, and it was supposed to also be about education too, but I've lost all hope of that. I literally feel closer to God at home listening to old Orthodox chants or old hymns than I do in church listening to pop songs with words swapped out for "Jesus" or "Lord" and repeating "I love you lord" 20 times as if it somehow makes it true. The church, particularly in America abd tge west is so lost, and we are lost and stumbling in the darkness, how exactly are we going to obey Christ's command to be the light of world? Logically speaking, it's not possible which is what I consider to be a major contributing factor to the rapid decline of this country, and no matter who's president, it won't go away until we fix ourselves spiritually and morally starting with the church.
putting traditional and protestant in the same sentence is hilarious
I don´t want to participate in traditional worship, I feel it is outdated, slow, irritating with bad music. No other same age or younger people, and I sit with some 65-85 year old people. I could and have however attended some rock/metal worships.... at least the music is good, often the content is better, and you are surrounded with "20-50" year old people, and I say this a s 50 year old.
@@Manuel-ew3dp How so?
I think the real question for the mainlines is how much of their loss is individual congregations leaving for other (confessional) denominations (e.g. as part of a split) or instead individual members leaving for whatever reason, because there's a significant difference in the overall narrative depending
I left UCC but not because I am socially conservative, I am not atheist, I am not secular, it is for a similar reason why William Blake did not have a church. Blake was a religious seeker but not a joiner.
I am grateful for many UCC teachings especially Paul Tillich. Paul Tillich wrote that all institutions, including the church, are inherently demonic. You don’t necessarily build an institution when one of the most profound theological philosophers in your church is Tillich. LOL!
As an adult I worked in community theater, and worked with all denominations. The UCC prepared me for that because we studied other denominations and atheist perspectives too.
I once had an atheist kid and a Christian kid have an argument. I am proud as to how I facilitated their discussion. The atheist kid thought I would take his rationalist perspective, and asked do you believe in God. I said yes, and the Christian child said „SEE I am right!“ I then said the way I understand god might be different than your understanding so we then went deeper into a discussion of our three perspectives and the value of tolerance and understanding and dialogue. All learned from UCC.
So maybe the UCC church decline is the fact that we no longer need the walls.
Maybe more people noticed there is not an invisible man in the sky and started thinking for themselves. Less religion and more thinking please
@@jamesmoran7511 lol, no. They just realized that they don't need to attend church to be saved.
@@InLoveWithLife43vr cope
@@amberharmsen2497 i don’t need to cope. I’m actually perfectly fine.
I can’t speak about other denominations but as someone raised Catholic, I know all the pedo scandals the church tried to cover up for decades had a huge impact on their numbers. My parents stopped going to church altogether because of how disgusted they were with it. They probably wouldn’t call themselves atheists but they may as well be since religion plays zero role in their lives anymore. I myself became an atheist soon after high school.
you're right. that's a big reason, but it's far from being the only one. freedom from religion was a big part of it's decline. you give the people the freedom to opt out, they opt out. Education is a big part as well, empirical data and science just simply contradict religious faith. religion made big claims it couldn't back up in the long run for the educated mind to believe in.
@@rosaeruber225 God gives people the freedom to "opt out" and, unfortunately, many do.
@@rosaeruber225 a Christian myself, from my perspective the whole Science vs Religion deal is a false dichotomy. Science tells you how the world functions, but it tells you nothing about what the purpose of life is or how you ought to live your life.
Religion and Science do intersect in certain respects, for example when it comes to the question of the origin of life, but when it comes to everything else, they are fundamentally different.
Science, though it may help us better understand the world we live in and how it functions, cannot say anything about what the purpose of life is or how we can become better people.
@@legodavid9260 You explained that very well, better than many in this discussion, and without going all nutso also.
@@rosaeruber225 science is merely the understanding and the knowledge of patterns. That is all. Why things happen? “We don’t know yet”.
My grandfather described the church of his times and why so many people attended.
Families stayed in the town for decades. Two factories enabled men to support their families on one paycheck. The residents grew up with each other, worked together, and worshipped together. Todays' churches are mostly filled with people who live in different neighborhoods. They don't know each other.
No one drove to church. There were no parking lots. Everyone walked to church, which was a few blocks away. The pastor lived in a working class neighborhood and was just an ordinary guy like the rest of the residents. Sermons were 10-15 minutes long. The rest of church time was spent on who needed help in the neighborhood and how they could be helped.
When the factories closed down, young people left to find job opportunities in the bigger cities. The bonds of community were broken. The only people who still went to church were the elderly people who had forged communal bonds for decades. Younger people in the town didn't grow up with these strong communal bonds. The younger folks also couldn't afford to settle down very long as good jobs were gone. They relocate and never settle down because economic conditions can change rapidly.
This is what happened to my church. when the industries left, so did the young families with children. They had to have jobs and I can't blame them I was fortunate enough to.have a good paying job not connectex.to.indusfry. I also had aging parents that needed some help. My chruch tried the non traditional music and service and for a while it worked. But when it grew stale, the young families that were there left. We have a.congregation of.a out 30 now some have left over the decision to stay with the UMC. I am on the fence and will be exploring other churches in the area to see if any fit with my family. its sad to see my church in decline after so many years of growth.
Good content.
From personal experiences with CoC, I feel that they tend to shame you if you don't attend often which is understandable. But what is not understandable is they shame you if you don't attend multiple times a week (up to 5 times a week). I'm starting a career, in grad schoo, and have a new born. I barely have time to go once a week and when I do go, the last thing I need is for someone to shame me into going again later that day or night 😢
CoC is by no means mainline protestant either. Disciples for sure are, but the Stone-Campbell Movement is Restorationist and frequently have more in common with groups like the LDS than any of the more sane churches.
It is not understandable for them to shame you if you don't attend often. In fact, that's the complete opposite of what Jesus was referring to with the prodigal son parable. This is part of the reason why church and Christianity is declining-- they don't actually know the Bible and even fewer actually follow it. People can smell the hypocrisy.
Can't believe Clash of Clans pressures their playerbase so much 😔😔😔
Shaming harms people. Encouragement and appreciation make people “glow.” Good leadership takes the latter approach.
The phrase "shame you" is a subjective phrase. If someone points out to you that even secular clubs recognize attendance is necessary, else you are not a member of the club, then how can a brother or sister admonishing you to attend be seen as an attempt at "shaming"? It sounds like to me a sense of pride was wounded, and rather than admit wrong & change, its time to shoot the messenger.
I was raised Presbyterian, the reasons people leave mainline church is it is just not a high-control group or “culty” type of religion. People are encouraged to interpret things for themselves. There’s no strong cultural stigma to leaving. Your family doesn’t reject you. It’s not such a bad thing. My boomer parents still attend but the building does not have the best amenities or full wheelchair access . They streamlined their streaming broadcast during the 2020 pando. Now many of the older less mobile congregants find it easier to just watch online. Some people complained loudly when they put up a rainbow flag , but , they stayed anyway? Just wrote a very strongly worded letter to the board. I was surprised they didn’t move to a McDonald’s Church over a decade ago when PCUSA affirmed gay marriage and everything. Maybe religion isn’t really as centered in our society anymore but I don’t have any stake in it anymore. I wish there was a regular place for people to find community and support each other though
Having grown up with my extended family in an "Apostolic Pentecostal" (whatever the hell that is) congregation, this makes a lot of sense. I'll admit I share the wish for a community-centered space though
It’s called a “Southern Baptist Church.”
@@MatthewChenault Southern Baptist is a very specific denomination, they would just call themselves Southern Baptist if so?
@@MatthewChenault Except people are fleeing the SBC in droves. They lost half a million last year alone according to the SBC.
@@dancahill9585, that was based on 2021 statistics, which was still during the magical Chinese sneeze.
Speaking as someone based in the US, one thing that I see happening with the decline of mainline Protestantism, which historically occupied the middle ground between Evangelicalism and Catholicism, is the deepening of the divide between Protestants (who will mostly be represented by Evangelicals et al.) and Catholics (along with Orthodox and other non-Protestants). I often hear people asked if they're "Catholic or Christian." (I personally find the exclusive appropriation of the term, "Christian," by Evangelicals quite problematic for a number of reasons.) I can forsee a situation evolving in American English evolving like the Indonesian language, for example, which has separate words for "Catholic" ("Katolik") and "Protestant/Christian" ("Kristen").
Once had an acquaintance in high school ask me if I was Catholic or Christian. I said "Huh?", she didn't budge. I told her Catholics were a kind of Christian, she said "You know what I mean". Oh, and she was a Roman Catholic, an Italian American. I couldn't give her a straight answer because I was raised Episcopal. So yes I agree, I think Catholics and Evangelicals have already made themselves mutually unintelligible long ago, and without the Mainline churches to serve as a bridge between those two worlds, they will probably have a relationship closer to Buddhism and Christianity in Korea (even though they'd have good reason to see themselves as common Christians against a majority irreligious America)
When I was a kid I went from Lutheran (Missouri Synod) to Evangelical. I then became non-denominational in college. I become an atheist after college. I am very thankful for my journey. I had considered becoming a Jew, a Muslim, a Mormon and a Lutheran again. Then, when I turned 29 I joined the Catholic Church. Now I am 43 and married in the Catholic Church. It was a long journey. That said, I still keep all of the good things I learned along the way. Lutheranism taught me the Bible and the importance of faith. Evangelicalism taught me that denominations are a modern construct. Non-denominationalism taught me about innocence and the faults of legalism. Atheism taught me to use reason. I became a Catholic because my family roots are from western Europe and I discovered my love for the Church Fathers through a family member. If I was Russian I may be a member of the Orthodox Church today. I LOVE tradition and I will never see tradition as a dirty word. I am excited that many of my family members are making their way to more traditional Orthodox Churches (not mainline), such as the new Anglican Church in America or the Russian Orthodox Church. The Catholic Church has tons of problems it will need to fix in the coming century. That said, I really appreciate Christians who are honest and humble about their walk with Christ. I firmly believe in the Catholic Church, but I am only a fallible man. I have searched my heart and I believe I am honest in my beliefs. I also believe many other Christians feel the same way, and maybe others in other religions. I believe God will judge all of us with mercy and justice. I don't think anyone will end up in hell because they failed a divine theology test.
Thanks for sharing your way.
Wow, you are totally lost. Start wrong, end wrong. Hopefully you desire to find the truth so you can have a fighting chance at finding it.
While reading, I couldn't help but notice a tinge of emotional sadness, that I felt from reading you comments; no direct reflection on what to me seems to be your open-hearted confessions. My advise to ALL, is to study first. Discover Jesus, and then keep your mind focused on Him, asking Him daily to guide you through your days. He will. The burden for man is to love thy neighbor. This commandment seems to be the hardest hill to climb for so many. God says: you don't have, because you don't ask with the right heart and purpose. Ask Him your desires with sincerity.... and wait patiently for His certain response. He is Faithful, Truthful, and All Loving to those who seek and Love Him.
Catholic and Orthodox churches are not at all interchangeable. Might as well say you would become CoE if you were English. Phyletism is a heresy.
@@civilcitizen3586 I am not sure if you were referring to me or to Vincent. If me, then actually I will say I am full of joy where I am today and where I hope to be in the future. I have found Christ. I agree with your comments, and there is sadness on every journey. Keeping the faith is challenging and can be very hard at times. Being confronted with certain truths that completely upend a persons "map of meaning" (to steal from Dr. Jordan Peterson) can almost destroy one's old self. All that said, Christians need to come together and honor and respect everyone's journey so long as that journey comes from a place of honesty and truthfulness. People will experience different realities on Earth. Peoples truths can be different not because there are different truths, but because we all have limited ability to know the truth in this life. Thanks for the comment.
As a born and raised Greek Orthodox Christian, contrary to the experiences of many others here, the churches I attend have been mostly made up of younger members and new families, and our churches are rapidly growing. I'm happy that Orthodoxy is showing many of my younger generation the grace of God however the overall decline of Christianity in America is alarming.
I was wondering how long I'd have to scroll down to find the Orthodox. ☦ Transforming America, the West and the World.
Millennial aged right wing dissidents are larping as orthodox right now, they'll all go away in about 5 years when it stops being cool
I went from being baptized Roman Catholic as a child to Agnostic Atheist for most of my childhood and teenage years to eventually studying up on different denominations and coming to the conclusion as a 20 year old that the history behind the Greek Orthodox church and its traditions/viewpoints really appealed to me. The services in general are much more spiritual in nature compared to what I grew up in and the community is great as well, I hope more young people in the US get integrated with these older churches.
Chill, Christianity isn’t even an American religion.
Your experience adds confirmation to an opinion I have developed over the past 21 years of dealing directly with young adults (both in the military as a leader and also as a father), and that is that liberal Christianity is losing because it is giving up tradition, giving up concrete values and beliefs, and betraying heritage and history to seem “cool” and relevant and to try to appeal to “young people” while being absolutely and ironically oblivious to the fact that Millennials, Gen Z and Gen Alpha are attracted not to novelty but to authenticity stemming from a desire to experience something unique, old, and real, rather than to stomach the materialistic, nihilistic modern world and institutions built by the Boomers and their far-out Gen X prodigy. Anyone 45 and under is seeking authenticity and connections to the past-perhaps stemming from the isolated, sterile world of the internet and non-stop novelty found there-and to find somewhere real to plant their feet; to be part of something bigger than themselves that has a proud and long heritage. These moronic liberal “Christians”-for whatever that title even means to these mainline denominations-are ironically the most out-of-touch people in the wider church even as they trumpet their own relevance. I belong to the Shingon Buddhist order, a tradition that to this day is one that is passed from master to student for all people in it, and which started that way since Nagarjuna passed the torch to Naga-Bodhi, and through four more patriarchs to Hui-Kuo and ultimately to Kōbo-Daishi Kūkai, the founder of Shingon, in 804-805. The tradition is just that-traditional-and we still practice the rituals and ceremonies as they were practiced 1200 years ago. People like coming to the Shingon temple for that reason: we aren’t selling them something new, nor dazzling them novelty and extravagancy-we’re just holding to the tradition, remaining faithful to O-Daishi-sama, and holding the line. The number of weekly attendees continues to increase (we are only of only four Shingon temples in America) as Americans, hungry for something authentic and with a long tradition and proud heritage, come find out what we’re about. I think part of the reason Christianity (orthodox, conservative, confessional Christianity) is in general decline is, ironically, because it is so hard to figure out what the non-denominational churches adhere to. If any pastor with a set of ideas can just form his own church and call himself non-denominational, then there is no consistent standard and there are so many choices that it discourages would-be converts. When a religious institution abandons tradition, fundamentals, and heritage for independence and “relevance”, it will fail as so many churches in the USA are. As for the Greek Orthodox and Russian Orthodox (and others) churches that adhere to tradition and still perform rites and rituals and carry forth the traditions of the centuries and millennia past, I have personally seen more and more young people say how they attended those services and enjoyed it. There is something to be said for reciting the Nicene Creed, for Lutheran rites, for Orthodox pagentry, and these modern, Protestant Christians don’t seem to get it (regardless of how they justify their actions).
In some senses, similar phenomenon that Amish outnumbered Mainline churches already happened to other religions, where Haredi, ultra-orthodox Judaism, already occupies significant portion of whole Israeli population.
Well it's a cult that's very hard to leave and doesn't allow birth control, so it's natural they their number grow.
Reproduction matters. Many people dont seem to realize that.
@@cs3818919 it's different when you don't have to worry about money to feed your children
@@orangesel9338 Wdym ? They need money to feed their childrens like everyone else. But they live with little and work hard.
@@jobloluther They get a stipend from the Israeli government as long as they are doing religious studies. They also get to opt out of the otherwise-mandatory military service.
Your videos are always interesting and carefully done. I'm 75 and where I grew up Catholics and Lutherans dominated the communities. My Lutheran friends left their ELCA church for one no longer affiliated with the ELCA. Some Catholics sympathetic to Gays simply left the church only to be replaced by protestants comfortable with the liturgical nature of the Catholic church and its tendencies to keep traditions. Covid greatly affected attendance and the 2023 Lenten period really saw an increase in Mass attendance in my parish. It's still below attendance in 2019. Anyway, it is alarming to see the division within all of Christianity.
Division can be a good thing for the health of organizations... it forces them to look to see what is wrong with their organization and what can be improved. It also shows that people don't have blind faith and fight for tolerance and other issues that religion should be reinforcing but has been failing to.
@@ironfist7789 Catholicism is never going to be tolerant of LGBT. It is one of their most sacred teachings.
Christianity will eventually go the way of all other ancient religions. Functionally extinct. It’s just the way of things. It won’t go extinct in our lifetimes though. Probably not for at least a thousand more years, if we last that long.
@@housetheunstoppablessed4846 The Catholic Church will NEVER ACCEPT Same Sex Marriage. Because it is a SIN in the Bible.
@@housetheunstoppablessed4846 That's one of the reasons they are losing.
The amount of work put into a video like this has to be crazy. Props to you. I’ve watched this at least 3 times since it came out now. I just shared it with someone who I think might like it. I hope your channel keeps growing, you deserve lots of subscribers. I hope you can do this work full time if you don’t already. It’s a great benefit to us.
The movement away from evangelism in mainline churches is , in my opinion, a huge part of this issue that nobody discusses.
As a Catholic (but also a lover of history) I always find it tragic when historic churches either close down or are left to rot (especially in the midwest). The more orthodox mainline protestant congregations (and potentially Catholic Church) should really look into making more churches into simultaneum, while fighting to make sure the churches that have to be closed down due to falling membership are converted into more respectable community gathering centers like libraries, soup kitchens and/or local opera houses. It's by no means pretty, but it's better than having our historical churches left to rot or being used for unchristian ends.
Our older Churches were wiped from the map. Families having received all sacraments, in these Church buildings, as did their ancestors, remain in shock and in sadness or anger, until today. It also didn't help that wood carvings, on the altar, made by early immigrants from Europe and elsewhere and fantastic statues, bought in times of quality, just disappeared. The cemeteries were left to flood and the broken stones were put in a pile. A parking lot replaced the old Church, in our case, all in the name of building a new Church building, which appears as a High School Gym. The first warning, was changing from Latin to English, but who suspected to be led down this strange path? The Church, in these times, between 1962 and 1970 or so just pulled the rug out, from under the feet of Church members. The Pastor talked business and had visiting Priests talk about the Gospel. Thank goodness for that. Then it was back to business. A mere collection replaced the Summer Fair/Celebration, in which members sold their crafts etc. and contributed these earnings to the Church. It was so much fun and held us as a parish, together. Later, the yearly contributions from each member, we're published in a book. It allowed wealthy children to make fun of other children, in Cathechism class on Saturday. They brought a copy along. Meanwhile, choir members sang and practiced for holidays etc. for free. One Priest intended to be up in the choir loft and put the choir on the altar... just turning the whole gathering, in his elevated direction. There are limits to how much you can allow yourself to follow. There are more examples, not of the congregation leaving the Church, but of the Church, leaving the congregation. Some choir members went to another Church, an older building where this could not be architecturally done. In these cases, all you can do is run and have your own private talks with God, because there is no one left to hear you.
Yeah, I live in a traditionally Catholic town, but I'm one of a few young people that still go to Mass. There are all kinds of beautiful old churches that are completely abandoned around where I live. it's sad to see. I knew a priest who would rescue old sacred vessels (chalices, etc) so that they didn't end up in Pawn shops. He would gift them to new priests upon their ordination.
Still, it's hard to see our sacred spaces turned into reception halls and taverns. Christendom is very threatened by the new Paganism gripping our culture in America...
I knew of a group of Buddhist monks who wanted to turn an abandoned Catholic church into a temple. The church refused to sell to another religion. So, they just closed it down and let it rot and the monks ended up buying an old school instead.
OK, now it makes sense that our Diocesan Priest had the beautiful, historic Church torn down, for a parking lot, to accommodate only 8 huge cars and built a new bigger Church. He planned for declining membership. The 'new' building looks like a High School Gym, with pews in it. He said that we needed more room, for our growing Church membership, while preparing for a decline. Now, it seems that he was preparing for the worst, for the time, when the old Church would have been let to rot. He believed that the Gym would have more of a future. Could he not have had more masses in the old Church? The parking places were the most important things, but cars were not small back then. Remember the Chrysler Saratoga? If you live long enough, you see that the Church building is still a Church and not a school gym. Membership has grown. The pews are still there. The old Church is an old memory. I imagine, that despite having compact compact cars now, they might have turned the old cemetery into a parking lot as well. I will check, as family is there too.
If you love history and study it objectively you'll see that the Catholic Church is one of the most evil organizations in history. Religion is inherently authoritarian and has been the cause of so much suffering. Time for humans to grow up and ditch the mythology.
Please do videos like this on the most recent stats for the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches. And please do a video about EWTN TV/Radio and its effect on the American Religious Landscape.
I agree. Especially since while most people probably leave the church to become atheist or agnostics. I've heard from many places that a fair amount are actually just switching to Catholic or Orthodox. It'll be interesting to speculate given the numbers.
@@BoondockBrony the growth of orthodoxy and Catholicism from ex mainlines is greatly exaggerated by internet “cathttrads” and “orthobros” the exchange from this denominations to the either one of those is minimal, and orthodoxs are still less than 1% in the USA, while white Catholics are declining at the same rate as mainline churches, being only sustained by the immigrant influx of Latino Catholics (who also tend to leave the church after one generation or convert to evangelical Christianity)
The Orthodox Church in the United States is growing quickly among Millennials and Gen Z
My town once had six Catholic schools. There are none now; the last one closed 3-4 years ago. I'm thinking that the trend is similar for the churches themselves, though not that extreme.
I grew up largely nondenominational. Based on that, I think this drive for Christians, young and old, to practice their faith outside of these mainline churches comes from a desire to fully realize their personal relationship with God. In other words, they want the freedom to carve their own path.
Our local Southern Baptist church is growing rapidly because our pastor teaches the Bible. We are about to start construction on a new campus to hold our growing congregation. We are looking at building a Christian school.
It's either Word of God or word on the street
The general thesis of the video seems to be that the Protestant Mainline is in trouble but that conservative churches are alive and well. While there may be some good news here and there for one conservative denomination or another the statistics cited at the beginning of the video belie the real problem. People in the United States are leaving Christianity. The culture war is cited as the reason why people are leaving the mainline for conservative alternatives because of culture war social issues. And while that may be true, people are also leaving the mainline as well as conservative churches over the same issues, but leaving for the opposite reasons. And the younger the generation the more likely people of any denomination are to leave their faith. And unlike in prior generations there doesn't seem to be a reflexive return as people age. Most of the statistics in this video are at best just showing that some boats are sinking faster than others.
the statistics in this video are showing no such thing. conservative denominations are booming and you do mental gymnastics to deny that fact.
@@hahaseabThat's not true where I'm at. Conservative churches are doing worse than the progressive churches.
@@hahaseab Statistic after statistic I've seen from several reliable polling outfits really doesn't bear that out. Conservative churches once seemed immune from, or even the beneficiaries of, the flight from the pews in other denominations. That ceased to be the case sometime in the late 2010's. There may be denominations with net gains, numerically, still, but the share of the overall population is on the decline. It's only groups like the Ahmish, which were comparatively very small before, that for now buck that trend (just a decade or so ago the Ahmish community was trying to recruit new members because of genetic diseases among its then dwindling population). I suspect that growth rate is also unsustainable in the face of the decline in US religiosity.
Less than 70% of Americans now consider themselves Christian, compared to over 90% in the 80's. And among those who remain, church attendance is down, importance of God in life is down, regular prayer is down, etc, etc. And all of those numbers look even worse in the generation just now hitting adulthood, with adults in late teens and early 20's down even further in all categories, and self id'ing as Christian below 50% in some polls. And again, basically everyone Gen X and later no longer seems to be finding faith in later years. Those numbers suggest any boost in one Christian group or another is isolated and almost certainly temporary.
I'm not saying the general thesis that conservative churches are benefitting from people leaving more moderate denominations is inaccurate. That is practically undeniable. What I'm saying is they're taking a larger and larger share of a smaller and smaller pie.
Many people were, "Raised Catholic," but have no idea what a Bishop is.
Yeah, while I know most Americans are protestant. most of the horror stories my ilk have talked about are from Catholic families and schools. Faith overall is declining but I heard out of atheists most of them were Protestants and then came Catholics (forgot the numbers).
Don't worry most Protestants don't know what a bishop is either!!!
I had that experience lol. There are many Youth pastors on my campus that I engage with (Though never ague with) that say that line but then I bring up an encounter I had in the Eucharist and they wouldn’t know what it is lol. I just say look in to it and try my best to show them our commonalities.
Good lol why should anyone care to know?
@@SliceySlicer Because that is the way God intended the Church to be run.
I appreciate how you stay above the fray in your videos. Your tone is consistently neutral unlike the comment section. 😂
I see you like being passive-aggressive. Is theology not intrinsically political, in the sense that it orders how people live their lives and the choices that they make? To feign neutrality misses the point. We are not neutral; we are openly for Christ and of Christ.
I’m Baptist. I attend two baptist churches but am only an official member of one. The one I’m a member of we started going to when I was 11. My parents ended up leaving over something small and went to a small church that was Baptist too but had no Baptist in the name. Then after their new pastor told everyone who to vote for, they left for a regular Baptist church. It’s a great church but the most active ones are the elderly members. Still, it’s vibrant and conservative. The first pastor left and a number of ppl left because he did but the youngish new pastor is doing what he can.
I still go to my church because it’s a good one and I know folk who come. But I stopped going to the contemporary service and go
To the early bird “elderly” service bc a girl I babysat and her family attend it. It’s small but nice and I love the hymns.
Mine used to have large, vibrant youth and college groups when I was in youth and college. But when we graduated college, most everyone left except a couple like me. To jobs and families elsewhere.
Now it’s basically just me.
When Thomas Merton was writing about the Desert Fathers and Mothers, he said, "these were men (and women) who believed that to let oneself drift along, passively accepting the tenets and values of what they knew as society, was purely and simply a disaster." He described society as 'a shipwreck from which people must swim for their lives''.People well get sick of the empty promises and lies of secular society. Then, like Saint Francis of Assisi, they'll look for a better way.
This is one of the main reasons why I converted from the Reformed Presbyterian tradition to Roman Catholic. The hand writing is on the wall.
Like I told my Presbyterian friend, a few years ago, “wake up, our children are not going to marry Presbyterian girls, and the likelihood of them being Reformed is next to nothing” I said that to him while I was still Reformed.
even after Covid, the Catholic church that I attend now has four services and they are all packed. Which blows me away because I became a Catholic in 2020.
Catholic Church does a better job of reducing churches so they seem more full. Go count the parish number of your town from 50 years ago to today and you'll see that many churches have closed. In my region they can barely maintain their current numbers and are trying to downsize.
Turns out raping generations of kids isn't the best PR program
I have noticed that many Presbyterians are converting to Catholicism. The Catholic church does not accept double predestination, and I strongly believe that they are right. In the end, God wants us to be in Heaven and He hopes we will make the choices to get there. The predestination that is in our lives is designed (what I have been taught) to help the individual to get there.
@@sameash3153 Episcopal is probably the gayest church of all time, through all ages.
@@sarak6860 It does and doesn't. The Catholic view of God's providence is very nuanced, but it starts with a different anthropology than the Reformed. Total depravity and original sin are not quite the same
@@sarak6860 predestination, inherently ignores free will. If we are made in the image of God, you would have to include free will.
I grew up (in the 50's and 60's)in a small Midwestern working class suburb which had about 10 different denomination Protestant churches The high school students parents were mostly nominally religious but the students never talked about religion. I believe that the students were totally confused in that each of these churches had different ideas about Christianity. To add to the confusion, the parents would often change churches so the students would get taught contradictory belief systems.
Getting taught contradictory beliefs isn't all bad. Getting taught only one belief is indoctrination, and it's fragile. Someone comes along with a little pin, and pop! I studied all the atheist arguments, and some Buddhism, Taoism, and Islam. In the end, I know exactly why I believe Christianity is the one true religion.
@@cjextreme that “only our church is the true church” argument is a red flag for being little better than a stereotypical cult.
If church is the only way to salvation, that’s not Christianity. Christ is the only way, the church is just a wagon to get you to the way.
@@Justanotherconsumer I know that Christ is the only way!
Christ organized HIS church to work as a stable entity to his gospel and law.
Churches are the support system to guide, instruct, and to give comfort among a myriad of other purposes.
When a sect no longer teaches the gospel as it is written, and/or falls to the changing winds of the world, then it is no longer a church of God in intent of his law, and people know this deep down.
That is why they are fleeing.
Quote "if you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything".
Yes, I guess I'm guilty of a little pride, but I never knew before how my faith stacked up to other religions.
I find it really touching, but mostly humbling why I am blessed so much to be given the knowledge of Jesus Christ while so many around the world are not.
Truly the mercies of God are open to all who seek him.
Well believe it or not there was honestly a hell of a lot of people via your parents' age group did in the 50s and 60s they dumped Church like a hot potato because many of them discovered that most of the preachers was after just big money and big buildings.
I know that my grandparents ditched Church back in the late 50s possibly even the mid-50s but I know it was slightly before the 60s at least.
And they did so for that very reason not to mention my grandfather had worked in a factory Monday through Friday and certainly didn't want to get up that early in the morning on Sunday and I certainly don't blame him.
I believe the decline in the churches is literally of their own doing.
@@Justanotherconsumer Well *HISTORICALLY* Jesus Christ ✝️ FOUNDED the Catholic Church upon Saint Peter the Rock 🪨 in 33 AD. Even Google, Siri and Alexa confirms this.
The nearest large UMC to my home was built to accommodate a congregation of 1,400. Its current membership number is 125. My closest UMC church just down the street just celebrated its 200th anniversary. It was built for a congregation of 400, and currently has 24 members.
We are in trouble in the UMC. I question if such buildings will be helpful as our mission evolves.
@@chrismadison5709evolution is the extinction of dysfunctional lines, the UMC will extinct itself by being what it is: a dumping ground for American progressive politics and paper thin apologia.
Just left the UMC for a currently unaligned Methodist church after we lost a disaffiliation vote by 2%. I'm not even THAT socially conservative and could have dealt with certain changes in isolation, but when I realized the whole upper leadership and a lot of the pastors had gone full blown critical theory Marxist and actively held those of us who aren't in contempt, I had to leave. My experience was incredibly similar to how I hear older Rust Belt Democrats talk, about how their party abandoned them rather than the other way around. I didn't change. The UMC did and it was only when I suddenly found myself in an environment where I was unwelcome despite doing and saying nothing, that I had to leave.
We left our UMC church with a ginormous campus they are in debt for that was built to accommodate well over 1000 people and had declined. Meanwhile we have a larger congregation that is barely able to fit our temporary accommodations with 2 services and we will either need a new venue soon or need to start a 3rd service to avoid overcrowding. Losing our disaffiliation vote seemed like a worst-case scenario before but now it feels like we actually got the better end of the deal by far as we are carrying no debt and didn't have to pay a fee to the UMC and stuck the UMC with the full burden of everything.
@@nerysghemor5781 God bless you in this new chapter.
@@chrismadison5709 Awww…thanks. It’s been healing to go to a church where I feel welcome and no longer afraid of the judgment of the clergy and others in the congregation. (Are those things the Marxists like to say they feel? Yes. But that’s how I felt how where I previously was.)
Could you please do more of these videos looking at the trends in Church membership in other countries like the UK, Canada, Australia, NZ and Ireland? Maybe even countries in Continental Europe. Thank you
Do a Google search and you'll find that church membership is plummeting in all of those countries, and the US, and has been for decades.
@@canwelook the request for the video is not about seeking information for the overall trend which is well known. It’s about the detailed breakdown on what is happening inside each of the major denominations, and why, with the depth that Ready to Harvest has provided for this particular video. As was seen in this video while many major churches are declining, others are not. These other countries would likely have similar overall trends, and definitely face the same or similar issues, but the make up of their denominations would not be identical to the US. Therefore the details for each will also be different.
I'm a 23 year old Christian that has recently decided to leave the Baptist church i grew up in and convert to Orthodoxy, I see a lot of the people my age where I live seem to be converting to either one of the big 2 Catholic or Orthodox, or are just claiming agnostic or atheist
Claiming???
No, they ARE. We KNOW the Bible is mythology because we have so much evidence available now.
THAT is why religion is declining.
Welcome home brother! ☦️
Since when is Orthodox known as part of a "big 2?" In America unless you belong to some Balkan/East Slavic community nobody knows what that is.
Eh, I was in a similar road with the orthodox thing (attended an Antiochian parish), but I left and became an agnostic christian that goes to an episcopal church. From what I've noticed, many young people that join the Orthodox church tend to leave after a few years. I'm sad to see many of the mainline branches in the US decline. It's a good place for people like me.
@@odie-wankenodie8607 I blame it on the memes. Most of those young lads wouldn't even know about the Orthodox Church if not for the myriad of memes about it online. Rome/Byzantine memes are super popular, and to many in the West the Orthodox Church appears to be more conservative in a world in which its foil, the Catholic Church, seems to be increasingly liberal under Francis. There's also an allure to the fact that they know next to nothing about it, so it takes a while for them to realize it's just another church.
The thing is, the decline is not of the faithful. That would actually be worrying. The decline is from nominally christian, non practicing christians who no longer feel the need to idnetify as such. The church is getting smaller, but stronger in faith. Catholics in Russia are a TINY minority, and 50% of them pray everyday, and even more go to church every sunday: Small, but high in faith. Compare that to 16% of orthodox christians in Russia, orthodoxy is more of a cultural icon than a truly religious faith for most russians. Christianity is not declining. Its just that the true believers are being seperated from the ones who were only culturally christian.
Good we should leave Christian culture behind it's steeped in ignorant beliefs and immoral practices
It’s declining rapidly in the last 20 years.
My mom's church had over 100 members when I was growing up. I went with her last week when I was in town and there was 18 people on Sunday morning.
Same thing happens (while in different %) a little different in different cultures, but all trends point to the same direction.
Tbh, as an atheist agnostic, i think churches are dying is because they spend way too much time trying to be like the world. Honestly, what's the point of going?
I'm trying to study theology and near eastern culture and religion, a massive part of that is Judaism and Christianity. I learn A LOT by attending jewish services and talking to rabbis. I learn basically nothing going to Christian churches, except that god loves you no matter what, which isn't true at all.
It's becoming, if it hasn't already gotten there, a place where people pat themselves on the back for being people, who are also sinful, but that's okay because God doesn't really care about sin.
Or the other side, sin leads to hell, and eveyone except us are going there. It's a complete mess and much of it is reflectove of the fact that Christians in the US really, really, really don't understand pre-rabbinical judiasm. At all.
If such a being exists, it either loves humanity or is indifferent to it.
Schism within Christianity has weakened its theology. There is barely much of an agreement about the risks of sin, the role of faith and acts, which parts of the Bible are allegorical vs. authentic, the importance of conscience. There isn't even one accepted translation of The Bible.
After 25 years in the church I had heard it all by the time I was 14. There were never any new lessons, no engagement to be gained. The only benefit of church was to have a community.
They always said people have a God shaped hole in their heart, but they don't. I've been an atheist for a decade now, it's been the happiest time of my life. I don't have to judge myself based on other's ideas. I don't have to worry so much about keeping in line lest I be caught by the nosy ladies.
Life is better without thinking "am I good enough?" constantly.
You're not wrong there. Between COVID mandates, watered-down (and sometimes false) preaching, taking Scripture out of context, and the rise of what seems to be LGBT+ dominance in American society, the Church of today has conformed so much to the world it's almost indistinguishable. Jesus in His letter to the lukewarm church of Laodicea in Revelation 3 was not pretty; in fact He told that church "because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spew you out of My mouth" (v. 16). That phrase should scare any church into repentance.
Yeah, that could definitely be part of it. Paganism is basically a never ending research project, but make it spiritual. We don't have a lot of physical community or orthodoxy (except in maybe some very traditional Gardnerian Wicca), but there's certainly a lot to learn and explore.
Blinkist books are shorter than the average Raid Shadow Legends ad
As a catholic christian from the uk (originally from Ireland) - it is very true that protestant denominations who are attempting to change christian doctrine, are declining rapidly. If you walk into the local methodist or anglican church, you will see just elderely people, no families, no children. However, if you walk into the catholic church i attend, you will see it packed for 3 english masses on a sunday, many more than in the local cofe church, full of many families, children and young people, in fact over 40 people got confirmed last year. I am only 16, but I must say the only other christians i know are catholics, or evangelicals.
How’s the Latin rite doing over there?
The mainline protestants lack the fanatical zeal of more fascist aligned religions; that is evangelical and Catholic Christianity. It likewise lacks the explanatory power of scientific and materialist mindsets that have actually developed mankind. So mainline protestants will die off, as they have nothing to offer.
Although catholicism is in decline in many countries, i think it's rising in UK 🎉
Sorry Kieran, Pentecostal church is the fastest growing and is expected to be 800 million in the next decade. Brazil’s Catholic churches are losing ground to the Pentecostals. The rest of SA is following. Catholic Church will still grow to 1.4 billion in the next decade.
@Kieran could you ask someone in ur Church a Question
Why Bible, Torah, Qura'n start with the God of Ibraham Isac David Moses but later how Church Theology Unsuccessfully Derails this Monotheism & we've only Jews ✡️ n Muslims claiming to Believe in One & the Same God apart from Christianity.
One reason is a lot of companies stay open through Sundays now. Especially in manufacturing type of jobs, a lot more people are having to work that day. I worked at a factory for quite a while, and if was hard to get the weekends off. You had to work there for over 10 years to get a Monday-Friday schedule. Churches becoming more progressive is also a major factor.
I used to think all the emphasis on keeping the sabbath was just dumb, but as I got older I realized how important it is (was) for creating a captive audience for Churches. Faiths which more strictly enforced the sabbath tended to survive better than those which didn't.
@@travcollierThis is a great and relevant point. I bet work has always been a major competition with church.
Churches becoming more progressive is the only reason I started going again. The church I'm a member of proudly hangs a rainbow flag. As a lesbian that obviously makes me, and many others, feel welcome in a place where you assume you're not welcome.
@@talyahr3302, demon!
love that the catholic parish i attend has been here since 1852 and is packed with young families.
We need to revive the historic mainline. Long live the Reconquista!
I knew I'd find you here, I was thinking about your channel the whole time I was watching
its you, the Allons enfants de la Patrie,
Le jour de gloire est arrivé !
Contre nous de la tyrannie
L'étendard sanglant est levé, (bis)
Entendez-vous dans les campagnes
Mugir ces féroces soldats ?
Ils viennent jusque dans vos bras
Égorger vos fils, vos compagnes !
Refrain :
𝄆 Aux armes, citoyens,
Formez vos bataillons,
Marchons, marchons !
Qu'un sang impur
Abreuve nos sillons ! 𝄇
Que veut cette horde d'esclaves,
De traîtres, de rois conjurés ?
Pour qui ces ignobles entraves,
Ces fers dès longtemps préparés ? (bis)
Français, pour nous, ah ! quel outrage
Quels transports il doit exciter !
C'est nous qu'on ose méditer
De rendre à l'antique esclavage !
Refrain
Quoi ! des cohortes étrangères
Feraient la loi dans nos foyers !
Quoi ! Ces phalanges mercenaires
Terrasseraient nos fiers guerriers ! (bis)
Grand Dieu ! Par des mains enchaînées
Nos fronts sous le joug se ploieraient
De vils despotes deviendraient
Les maîtres de nos destinées !
Refrain
Tremblez, tyrans et vous perfides
L'opprobre de tous les partis,
Tremblez ! vos projets parricides
Vont enfin recevoir leurs prix ! (bis)
Tout est soldat pour vous combattre,
S'ils tombent, nos jeunes héros,
La terre en produit de nouveaux,
Contre vous tout prêts à se battre !
Refrain
Français, en guerriers magnanimes,
Portez ou retenez vos coups !
Épargnez ces tristes victimes,
À regret s'armant contre nous. (bis)
Mais ces despotes sanguinaires,
Mais ces complices de Bouillé,
Tous ces tigres qui, sans pitié,
Déchirent le sein de leur mère !
Refrain
Amour sacré de la Patrie,
Conduis, soutiens nos bras vengeurs
Liberté, Liberté chérie,
Combats avec tes défenseurs ! (bis)
Sous nos drapeaux que la victoire
Accoure à tes mâles accents,
Que tes ennemis expirants
Voient ton triomphe et notre gloire !
Refrain
Couplet des enfants:[c]
Nous entrerons dans la carrière
Quand nos aînés n'y seront plus,
Nous y trouverons leur poussière
Et la trace de leurs vertus (bis)
Bien moins jaloux de leur survivre
Que de partager leur cercueil,
Nous aurons le sublime orgueil
De les venger ou de les suivre.
Refrain
Drive your car into a semitrruck, you reactionary pig.
Based
no freaking way it's you!!! hiiiiiii
I'd like to see a similar video with Catholicism, taking into account the world-wide Church and the Rites within, as well as the different Mass settings. So, for example, the Norvis Ordo attendance vs The Old Latin Mass attendance vs Chaldean and Bizantine Divine Worship attendance. That would be fascinating to me.
World wide I believe Catholicism is growing, especially in Africa and China.
They’re declining because there’s no reason to go.
Religion is beneficial for society when you see the state of it today. But liberal religions offer nothing of value.
Except that God asks us not to forsake the church gathering according to Paul.
The writings of a two thousand year old book are not really convincing for many
@@10Tabris01 "If it isn't brand new, it must not be true!"
@@SeanusAurelius Well, as far as morals go we have come a long way since the early iron age.
Also, it's not as if no other book pretents to be the word of a higher power, so as long as god choses to be silent, one must live with the bible being distrusted
I’m Episcopalian. My church is an anomaly among Episcopal churches. It’s the second-largest church in our diocese and the largest, by far, in southern Arizona. Our numbers haven’t quite rebounded to pre-Covid levels, but they are getting there. And there are A LOT of young families joining. Enrollment in Sunday School increased 42% from 2022 to 2023. There’s also a surprising amount of new members who were raised evangelical. So…I guess that’s something.
So what would you say is the reason for all that growth?
Former evangelical here, went to an Episcopal service last Sunday and felt the Holy Spirit and community.
@@cruzgomes5660 I don’t honestly know. We must be offering something that the other Episcopal churches in town are lacking. I just joined two years ago, but I knew about their robust children’s offerings from when I attended that church a number of years ago. They have different clergy now, but they are obviously doing something right.
Ex Evangelical Southern Baptist Turned Episcopalian.
As a young person that is a member of one of these churches, and going to a college associated with one of these churches I want to say some things.
1) People not engaged in Christianity tend to group all demoninations together, with an often sour taste in their mouths.
2). Because people group Christianity together one when recruiting new students to the college we often have to explain denominations, and that our church is different than what they were familiarized with through culture.
3). People that leave our churches often go to a more conservative church, while those that leave more conservative churches less commonly join a more progressive church.
4). Associating politics with it, rural areas tend to have better attendance and community shaming for not attending, rural areas are also more conservative, while more urban areas are more progressive, and less likely because of population and culture to shame not attending.
5). The mainline tends to invest less in converting others, and more into doing good. The UCC does studies connecting racial discrimination to climate chnage and prepares those communities to feel the effects, the ELCA funds and runs a lot of refugee resettlement programa, and funds upstart agricultural programs in Sub-Saharan Africa. However I have many personal experieneces eith people from the 'non-mainline' denominations trying to convert me.
I’d agree with you on a lot if a good amount of mainline church runners weren’t driving the best models of cars and living lavishly.
Religion feels like a disease that gets in the way of progress, and history only supports that.
@ThreeScaredBros the mainline churches literally invented progressivism
@@ThreeScaredBrosIs that why the Communists killed 100 million people?
@FourOf92000 the Methodists and sometimes the Baptists themselves often supported progressive goals such as Feminism and Civil Rights. Even in the modern day, many of those Churches support LGBT, abortion, and BLM
@@ThreeScaredBros Kenneth Copeland and Joel Olsteen are both heterics since they preach a counterfeit Christianity known as the Prosperity Gospels. Authentic Christianity teaches that suffering is inevitable especially if you are a Christian. The Prosperity Gospels teaches that God will give you good health, wealth, and material benefits if you give money to those scam pastors.
Christianity promises spiritual wealth, not material wealth hence why it's at odds with both capitalism and communism
Quite frankly, I got sick of hate and bigotry being preached from the pulpit. I was turned off by pastors playing coy with violent elements, the church aligning with entities very un-Christ-like in their behavior, and the idolatry of political figures.
The day my pastor said we should go back to burning witches at the stake was the last day I ever attended service.
What kind of church did you go to where the pastor said witches should be burned at the stake?
@@nothingelse1520he’s not wrong. I went to a church where my pastor preached against gay rights and said all Muslims and Hindus would go to hell. I just always felt so upset after every mass. I just decided I hated going to a church that just used fear and hate towards others.
@@viridianacortes9642 in college I got invited to a young adult church group. The pastor started going on about how evil Catholics were .......my grandma was a Catholic the preist used to visit her at the hospital as she was dying. Not a good way to break the ice with me at all.
That doesn’t sound like mainline at all. That sounds very evangelical
Sorry to hear that. As an individual, like Peter, Andrew, James etc - I've stayed in a community/church with other obstinate disciples who don't get it right all of the time and all together, need Jesus.
When I was a very young kid an older neighbor lady asked my mother if she could take me to her church. I don't remember this myself, but from what my mother told me, the church was a fire and brimstone baptist church. The preacher was talking about people burning in hell, and supposedly it scared me so much that I jumped up and ran all the way home, a couple blocks. My mother told me that I said, "the preacher said I'm going to burn in hell". I've been very reluctant to go to a church service since. I do remember enjoying going inside churches, the ones that keep the doors unlocked always, as a teenager when there was no one there and enjoying the supreme peace and quite.
The split from the elca to the lcmc in my church was incredibly hard and our church was never the same.
Considering the depth of apostacy into which the ELCA has fallen your congregation probably made the right decision to affiliate with the LCMC.
Why? The ELCA are radical progressives. They aren't even confessional
I grew up in the ELC, and when I was a kid, the divisive issue wasn't the LGBTQ, it was whether women should be allowed to be pastors, and the arguments were heated. One side claimed that women were just as capable of ministry as men were, and allowing women to be ordained was the fair, and proper thing to do. The other side said that the bible states very clearly that women should be quiet in church, and both sides were right. It was the right and proper thing to do, and the bible states very clearly not to do it. So what do you do? The ELC ended up doing the right and proper thing, and it cost them a lot of members.
@@jmg94j So what makes it "right and proper?" There ought to always be a source of morality, an authority you can cite as to what makes a thing right (or wrong); otherwise you are just making your own morality which in today's world is nearly universal anyway. But that's not morality.
@@thomasmaughan4798 Allowing women to be ordained ministers is the right and proper thing to do because women are just as capable of ministering as men are. There is no intelligent reason why women shouldn't be allowed to be pastors. Having a vagina instead of a penis is not an intelligent reason, and that is the only reason the Bible gives us. That's the kind of problem you face when you have a source for your morality? Do you think that you are incapable of determining what is right, and what is wrong without a book to guide you? God gave you a working brain, did he not? Why can't you figure out that the Bible is wrong on this issue?
I was raised in the church and quit going when I left home. I still consider myself a Christian and believe in God and Jesus. I think a lot of young people want to be religious however don't go or quit going to church because I hate to say it the people who do go to church every Sunday, Sunday night and Wednesday are the most judgmental and hypocritical people out there. Also with the invention of streaming, you tube, and podcast people can listen to a pastor, minister etc at home. People can also study the bible on their own without be preached at. These are just some of my thoughts and opinions.
Very interesting and i dare say you're somewhat accurate on the matter. Do you think next generation will attend church virtually instead of physically?
Xennial here. I went to a very mainline PCUSA church as a kid. I've long since become atheist. When visiting my old neighborhood, I decided to have a wander through the old building. It's definitely very much changed to be more like a modern evangelical mega-church in style. Like, they have one of those shields of a rock band on stage, and they have the youth do a christian rock band as part of one of the programs. They split the middle schoolers and high schoolers up by gender. There is definitely an almost evangelical vibe, where as when I was there as a kid it was very *not* evangelical. Also, it's so polished, it's harder to tell it's a building from the 1890s.
Non-denominational churches definitely are their own denomination, with shared beliefs. They aren't like Unitarian Christians. I have investigated that also. It's just a label they use to try to seem like they don't.
You don't just walk into a church as an atheist just for old times sake. I was like you when I was in my late teens, early twenties. Something happened or you saw some behavior out of people that was wrong and made you angry at them and God, that is my guess (you also will deny this and say I have no clue what I am saying). It set you down a road looking for another way for "freedom". There is no freedom where you are. Whoever wronged you or the behavior you saw that is on them, that wasn't God. God will always walk beside you and be waiting for you to come back. You walked away from him, but He is still shadowing you and keeping you. It took me awhile to see I was wrong, I still don't like "churchy" people and they make me sick, but God's grace is for all. It is your life, I just mean this as encouragement. Take it or leave it. For me it was a poisonous anger, and most of the people I have seen in this situation it is the same. Be well and best of luck, whatever you choose!
Can I asked what caused you to reject God?
That's not what youtube is for bruh
@neutral toxic RUclips is a social platform like any of the rest. Watts and my comments are fair. The OP doesn't have to respond to either if they don't want, fair enough. I wish them well, their reasons for the decision is their own (they/their is being used in singular sense, sort of screwy sorry). I normally watch GunTubers and history videos and there is plenty of discussion on there. Have a good one everyone and be well!
@@benjaminwatt2436 That is realllyy not the way to broach that question, friend. The way you worded it sounds like the equivalent of “Why did you decide to betray your own dignity and become a heathen?”
Thanks for your informative video. My congregation (a member of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America) was founded in 2013 by members of a declining congregation who decided to put it to rest and start something new. We grew until 2019, when the sudden departure of our first pastor, quickly followed by the COVID pandemic, initiated a new decline. We now have a new pastor; it's too soon to say whether we can turn things around. Much of our 2013-2019 growth came from disaffected Roman Catholics and disaffected evangelicals. It seems that progressive Christianity can attract new members--but admittedly examples are few.
One question Joshua on the numbers given concerning the decline. How honest are the self reported numbers? I know congregations that have people on the membership rolls that haven't set foot in the church in 30 or 40 years. It seems some are never removed unless they die or move 500 miles away. I know of one case where the guy grew up in the church but married and attends the wife's church but is still considered a member in his original church. I also remember hearing of minister who was shocked when asked to do a funeral for a local man. The minister didn't even know he was a member because no one from the family had attended or was visited in years.
I live in an odd area where church attendance is higher than average for the USA (but still pretty low IMHO), but church membership is lower than average for the USA. We had one minister (now deceased) in our town who performed far more funerals than any other. His specialty was to do funerals for people who had no connection to any church. He was a United Methodist minister, but he was the pastor of an American Baptist church. He did not have the best reputation among more faithful churchgoers around these parts.
I know at our church (large urban PCUSA) we’ll see a couple hundred any given Sunday, then up to 3-4 times that on Easter and Christmas. The nominal membership is closer to the holiday numbers.
Interesting that the Amish-a group of people who separate themselves from the world, build their entire community and culture around their faith, are stigmatized by the secular world, and live their faith unashamedly and without compromise-are the Christian’s seeing the most growth.
Now, I know there are plenty of examples sin and scandal in the Amish. They have their problems. But many of us “worldly” Christians have a thing or two to learn from the Amish
As my Eastern Orthodox professor says, “the Amish are excellent construction workers, but they have a weird interpretation of reformed Calvinism.” Too many heresies.
As a Catholic I pray for my Christian brothers and sisters and wish the best for them during these tough times.
CUCKOO CUCKOO
Hey lelouch, why don't you act on Romans 2: 29 and acknowledge what's happening with neonatal fibroblasts sales? Don't panic when you realize what's happening. Pray harder, spread the word among your fellow Catholics.
You should pray for your religious leaders to stop being sexual deviants amd touching little kids....pure evil and trash GL with your mythology
@@not-soprivateplaylist1771 praying harder for your sexual deviant leaders you are following to stop touching little boys...pray with me on this
@@robot5546 I know there are bad people in the Catholic Church just like there are bad people everywhere. I dislike the people who do those things. Most of the time those type of people are kicked out of the Church. My Church doesn’t have that problem because my area only has two Catholic Churches and the same priest does the mass at both and if something out of the ordinary happened my community would know about it.
I have been Catholic all my life. I grew up in Chicago Illinois but moved to North Carolina nearly 25 years ago. One thing I have noticed in the Catholic church is that Catholics are leaving the northern cities for the south. I know several of the churches in the area I lived in Chicago have massively shrinking populations. That being said here in NC they are opening new Catholic churches at a rapid rate.
.more churches are closing in Chicago, as more people doubt that Jesus existed..!
That's the trend everyone is moving to the south because it's cheaper but that's only going to make it more expensive lol
When you look at the Catholic Church side of this, I would recommend looking at Latin mass vs new mass (traditional vs the main stream if you will). I’m Catholic, grew up in the norvus ordo or mainstream church. It’s had some vibrancy here and there, but follows the path of every Protestant group you mentioned. We found the traditional Latin mass a few years ago, a small subset if you will. Families are large, rivaling that of even the Amish, parishes are growing left and right, seminaries are being built and within a few years, turning men away due to over capacity. Heck, the SSPX just built a 45million dollar church in st Mary’s, Kansas, and they will most likely fill that church in a generation. It’s a night and day difference, and really comes down to emphasizing the hard truths or being open and welcoming to the worlds beliefs. You call people to greatness in Christ, you will attract followers. You say youre ok as you are, no need to change, then people will see no difference between society and this belief.
Yep, I converted to Catholicism last year, particularly in a latin mass parish and even in the short time I've been there it keeps growing, multiple baptisms of both babies and adults, weddings, people moving across the country to be near to the church
@@willp.8120 WRONG ! You have been fed errornous information. Please go to official Catholic Church sources and you will discover its not a works based religion
@@willp.8120 James 2:14.
@@willp.8120 Wrong, we gave you the Bible
Bot
The only thing that sucks about this is that the churches can be beuatiful historic buildings, that might end up getting abandoned. Some churches in my city got converted, and some of them are kind of brutalist so i wont mind seeing those ones demolished.
Turn them all into homeless shelters.
There is a slow but steady decline in religion year-over-year. They can fight it all they want but it's declining.
Why fighting? Our society will eventually become polarized. People will do whatever please their eyes (or the heart desire). Thousand years ago and thousand year later, the human psyche stay the same, except we are bombarded with so many distractions of modern life to truthfully ask ourselves what is the meaning of life. Mental illnesses are on the rise, violent crime are on the rise. Research shows as the happiness are declining since 1990 despite of income level and socioeconomic improvement. With the boom of technology for portable device and remarkably with the invention of iphone in the year of 2007 along with invention of social media Facebok (2004), twitter (2006), we have witnessed the most interconnected of information in human history. Are we smarter than ancient people in the Bible? i don't have the answer, but our attention span is soon less than a goldfish. Somehow, our society has "miss the mark" even further into chaos in the last decay.
@@ianbuick8946 Without technology we would be living in misery. If we were still using vacuum tube TV's we would need 100x more electricity. Without the ability to generate Ammonia, many would starve. Without Dynamite, our modern society could not exist. The list goes on. I see Religion stopping humanity from moving forward. 10% of the worlds population has an IQ below 80 and that means they can barely feed themselves. I do feel sorry for people that are addicted to their phones and the apps. Caesar killed up to a million Gaul's in his campaigns mainly because growth is the only way to keep civilizations going. Genghis Khan killed 10% of the population etc. The old days were nasty for most of the population.
It's hard to gauge because they don't separate out the "rice christains". I grew up in a fundamentalist cult in the 70's/80's and religion had power in the schools / workplace. Now it is very rare to have to pay for the 'shakedown turkey dinners etc." I haven't heard anyone talk about religion in years compared to the 90's, there was always a "god's grace john 3:16 nut" around. @@user-ne1ct2ev5z
Nope you're wrong it isn't dying. It's actually coming back. And people like you can't stop the new revival that's coming
Was raised a Christian but became an atheist maybe 20 years ago. I’ve been dating a lady from Laos for 3 years now and I have to say I like the Buddhist outlook on life and rules for how to live quite a lot more than Christian one’s. It’s about being mindful and generally not abusing yourself or nature and other creatures. It’s not about worshipping Buddha himself or saying he created the universe and you must believe in him to not suffer eternally. Either way I know some people need that outlook to have a moral compass and structure to their lives.
There is much spiritual value there.
Yes, mindfulness practice is on the trend. To distant yourself from the reality to achieve the state of calmness. Christianity offer one that better: Quiet time with the Lord. Speaking of moral compass, where do we get moral compass from?
@@ianbuick8946it also offers the children secret sexytimes with a crusty old priest
@@ianbuick8946we certainly don't get our moral compass from God,or Jesus....have you ever read the old testament? and then there's Jesus telling people he comes with a sword,and do not go amongst the gentiles
@@lrcavalli290 Can you elaborate on why we don't have moral compass from God?
Could anyone explain to me how LGBT negatively effected attendance in these mainline churches? He shows the graph where all of the churches have declining membership since the 70s and says that LGBT has hurt them on the way down. I would appreciate marks on the graph to show where they changed their LGBT stance and if that speed or slowed the change. One church had an uptick.
If he made an unsupported claim, I would disregard it.
It's not just the LGBT stuff, but I think he's probably right. Liberal-leaning folks are more likely to to just give up religion altogether while conservatives will stay religious, but revolt if you so much as whiff LGBT acceptance or female pastors. Basically, it's not that being pro-LGBT is unpopular overall (quite the opposite in fact), it's that the people who stick around and be active are more likely to be anti-LGBT.
@@Colddirector I am not sure. Eventually progressive stances become conservative. My grandma could not legally have a bank account. Conservative people I know know would not support those laws. Even if they think that women should get permission from men they acknowledge the inconvenience. Young people I know who are conservative cannot even conceive of rules like that. For them they never knew that lifestyle existed so they don't know to conserve it.
We know this happened because as soon as the mainline announced lgbt support we see a schism or breakaway of churches formerly aligned with the mainline. He describes some.of these breakaway groups.
@@thomassandoval8025 I hear there has been much less infighting since the schisms. Don't know if that is good or bad. I don't have the numbers.
I use to be in a Presbyterian church that left PCUSA to join ECO. It was more the PCUSA leaving the Evangelical Christians the the first shot fired was alternative lifestyle ordained pastors and the final straw was that Jesus is not THE Way but just another way. That violates John 14:6.
It isn’t that people want something fresh, it’s that they want only what aligns with what they believe. My mom became Southern Baptist and devoted decades to her church, but a new pastor had her shopping for a new faith. Weirdly, she started watching Oprah’s Super Soul Sunday, which hosted a variety of people with different spiritual and religious ideas and it was awesome to see her reclaiming her identity before she died.
I watched as several churches in our area went through divisions of the congregation over interpretation of the Bible. I found it ironic that a religion based upon forgiveness would splinter over not forgiving variations in understanding.
Mainly, though, my observation was that church attendance to ALL denominations was dropping across the nation. In 2018 I was looking for a place to move to and researched dozens of towns from the west coast to the east coast. ONE town out of all of them I looked at had growth in church attendance…just one. And that was even happening as populations were increasing.
I assume you passed over Utah entirely, whose population of 4 million is 60% Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Outside Salt Lake County the proportion is 80%. Church membership is growing with population. Ironically, in that more religious society, Catholic and Protestant churches are much more prosperous as well. People feel free to live their religious beliefs in public.
@@raymondswenson1268 Mormons are no longer having as many kids as they used too. It used to be 80% of Mormon youth stayed Mormon as adults. Its down to like 55% now.
@@raymondswenson1268well Mormons are also a high control cult that coerce members not to leave and are prone to lying so they tend to be an outlier.
Interesting. Well. The writing has been on the wall for a long time.
This decline does explain the extremism and, frankly, hysteria that has been showing up in certain denominations in recent years.
My fear is that some of these denominations (the more radically congregationalist ones) will have a cultural panic and slowly morph into dangerous cults. There's already a couple churches that have gone this direction in the past eight years.
Be careful.
As a Briton, I found this really interesting. It was fascinating to see the decline in membership of mainline Christian churches and to compare that with the growth of some evangelical churches in the US. Thought your discussion of the impact of LGBT+ issues on mainstream churches and the growth of conservative congregations was well balanced.
I'm Romanian, and while I was born into a family with a charismatic father, I'm seriously disillusioned with his beliefs and those of charismatic church as well as many modern evangelical "churches" that are now little more than public venues for people to get their ears tickled. I'm seriously considering returning to Orthodoxy. My only two reservations are the kissing/kneeling before icons and the idea that you need to pray to Mary to get a message to God. I'm not sure if the latter is an official doctrine like in the Catholic church, but I personally have no biblical evidence to support it and the kissing icons thing seems a bit dangerous to me as it might be seen as idolatry by God. My only other reservation is tge idea that an infant is capable of making the conscious decision to get baptized. See when I convert I'd get baptized in the water, symbolizing my death to sin and rebirth as a true follower of Christ, but an infant is incapable of making that decision. Perhaps you can explain what the church's official doctrines are on these things and what the biblical evidence is for these practices, or if they are simply old traditions that aren't strictly required by the Bible? I'd really like to know, but my Father is old and set in his ways, so I don't expect an accurate and unbiased answer from him even though he was born Orthodox.
A short response to that... there are a lot of simplified explanations (even in this video), to try to grasp a very complex change in the world. Different countries have different social changes... by time more and more will change, so while X don´t happen yet in country 1, it will most likely happen to some degree in coming years. Some example here... Pentecostals were happy that THEY were the ones (praying and having the right theology - and THEREFORE God spared them from decline) while other churches slowly declined downwards.
That argument stopped in my country some 7 years ago, when THEIR churches too started to decline, and have continued decline since that.
This nonsense and huge simplification that evangelical or conservative churches just grow, and everyone else decline is false and at least simplified.
Another Pentecostal church was happy that THEY could keep the numbers of attendants up, while many other couldn´t... well it was shown later that at least some of the people who attended came from Pentecostal congregations nearby that were slowly dying.
I´ve seen several evangelical videos discussing how they loose members. here´s one
ruclips.net/video/qMgvBSXgYS4/видео.html
"Evangelical churches LOSES slower than some mainline..."
I was raised an Evangelical Lutheran. Our church at it's peak had about 500 members, and there was about 350-400 in attendance on any given Sunday. Today that church claims about 150 members, but there is only between 40-60 that actually show up for Sunday service. Of the ones that show up, at least half are 70 or older. The only way this church will survive is if other ELCs close, and their members transfer over, and even that is only going to be a stay of execution. Within 40 years, they will all be closed.
I am retired clergy in Indiana Conference UMC. We are a theologically pluralistic church. For me, personally, the Enlightenment was a double edged sword. We gained science, but came to view scripture as myth. (Rudolph Bultmann). This one size fits all approach to scripture has damaged us badly. I describe myself as an Evangelical Catholic in the Wesleyan tradition. I have maintained my Orthodox and Evangelical viewpoints, but am broader and more eclectic. The splintering we are experiencing has come about over a fifty year plus period of time. I am sad.
What's damaged us badly is peddling religious lies, delusions, superstitions, fairy tales & wishful thinking as a viable alternative to facts, evidence, science & reason.
@@GeorgeStar I hear your intensity. I am sorry for those in the Church who have harmed others. There is room for faith and science to dialogue.
@@GeorgeStar I agree. But there is a way out of the dilemma as it is written in the Book of John. Jesus is the Logos. If Christians actually asked what does the Logos mean they would have a path. The Logos has several meanings: Reason (Socrates), Ethical Reason right Logos (Aristotle), or Heraclitus universal divine reason, immanent in nature, yet transcending all oppositions and imperfections in the cosmos and humanity. An eternal and unchanging truth present from the time of creation, available to every individual who seeks it.
Obviously the Catholic Church emphasized the Aristotle understanding of right Logos, a Christian ethical philosophy.
But why should Christianity suddenly abandon deductive reasoning if that too is a type of Logos. Just because some things can’t be read literally?
This bizarre notion of total Biblical literalism or Biblical inerrancy IMO is idolatry, a false idol. It is also easily proven false and ahistorical.
I noticed many atheists have no clue in regards Analogical Reasoning of ethical reasoning which is all over the Bible. The way they dismiss Christianity is by being abjectly ignorant.
I don’t advocate for rational chauvinism, and there are other dimensions like the Holy Spirit, visionary experience such as Paul’s which are other dimensions not pure reason.
But I truly believe the dismissal of the Logos in its multi-dimensional meaning is a rejection of Jesus.
I remember reading of an archeological dig in Oxyrhynchus, Egypt where they found a man buried with two books the Gospel of Matthew and Euclid’s Geometry, Euclid was applying deductive reasoning to geometry. I think early Christian’s knew exactly what Jesus is the Logos really meant.
Anyone who doesn't recognize the Bible as mythology is denying reality. The evidence is overwhelming.
And it's awful mythology, depicting a God who mandates genocide, slavery, misogyny, homophobia, infanticide, etc. And that's not limited to the OT.
@@matthewkopp2391 Thank you, Matthew, for an informed response. I have observed over decades that extreme sides in arguments set up straw men (people) or use cliches to attack others, instead of dialogue. Their approaches are uninformed, often driven by old wounds and residual anger. Posturing based on ideological “orthodoxy” is built around beating people down, not building them up.
I'm no longer a Christian, but these churches have value as people feel more and more isolated
Why are you no longer a Christian? Do you still believe in Jesus?
When you make your video regarding the Catholic growth/decline, please try to include the numbers for the Anglican Ordinariate. Our parish is roughly one year old, but our attendance numbers have exploded.
If only they would all just go away.
I was raised in a mainline denomination but, in my 20s, found evangelical churches that seemed more faithful to the Bible. In 40 years of observation since then, it seems that most churches in decline bring it on themselves. There are few innocent victims.
I was raised in a mainline church, heard the gospel outside of that church as a teenager and came to faith, and have worshiped in conservative and evangelical congregations where the gospel is preached ever since.
I'm organist/pianist for a mainline Presbyterian church in the Bay Area. I'm 73 and one of the younger people in attendance. I'm there because it's a paid position. I expect to be without this job in three years. Like many mainline churches, this church expanded by leaps and bounds after WW2. Now half of the space is empty. The Methodist church I grew up in, just 12 miles away, has shut down and the buildings are for sale. Church members are dying and no one is replacing them. They continue to be hopeful that attendance will grow, but come on! Look at reality.
If you try to appeal to everyone equally, you will end up appealing to no one.
You should make a video like this for Catholicism (Roman and Eastern) and Orthodoxy. I know that denominations centered around immigrant communities (like Maronites and Melkites) tend to have higher attendance than others.
I predict that the bulk of Eastern Catholicism’s growth this decade would be from immigration in the past year for obvious reasons.
The bulk of Orthodoxy’s growth this decade would be from Protestants and Nones converting.
Roman Catholicism would have a mixture of steady immigration and conversion from Protestantism and Irreligion that has increased substantially since 2020.
@@lesinge8868 in the Eastern Orthodox Church, there has been only modest growth in the past 20 years relative to the U.S. population as a whole, but an interesting trend is that it is comprised less and less of cradle immigrants and more and more native U.S. converts. It’s also the youngest church by attendant age, with an average age 8 years below the average U.S. citizen, and it’s the only church whose average age is actively getting younger. Only some Pentecostals can boast demographics half as impressive as these. Catholics are doing all right, but they’re treading water instead of swimming forward. Other churches (all of them) are getting older and older on average.
The Amish are growing in part because they raise their children with a good work-school balance, so having many kids is not such a liability to them.
They do not see children as a liability but as a blessing inherently.
My previous church lost all of the younger generations After the pandemic. Services went virtual because of covid. Around this time, the church received a new pastor, who supported continuing virtual worship and waiting before reopening in-person services. However, some of the older members disagreed and apparently began forming a campaign against the pastor. I believe there were a series of other disagreements between those older members and the pastor, which I suspect related to political leanings, but I cannot remember them. At any rate, the church eventually split into two camps supporting the pastor and opposing him, with the opposing side aiming to terminate his position. They succeeded eventually, and the members who had supported the pastor, which happened to include all of the families with children (and my family as well), left to join churches in other towns. I have no idea how that old church will survive since they lost half their members and practically all future members as well.
Thank you. That was excellent. Very informative! Well researched.
As a non-religious person, its interesting to hear why religious people think their churches are losing attendees. It’s not how the churches treat women, its not the sexual abuse scandals, its not the prudish sex negativity, it’s not how the church views queer people, its not how they have failed to adapt their message to a modern world. No, its that they didn’t double down on their conservative world view, or they don’t do enough outreach. People know your message; it just doesn’t resonate with them. The world has changed, radically so, and churches need to radically change to keep up with it and I just don’t think the old men in charge of these churches are capable of that. When I hear someone is religious, I immediately think they are a bible thumping bore who’s going to judge me and how I live my life. If you want to convert people, you need to change that perception.
So holistically, is the Christian faith actually declining in the US or are people just fragmenting into more groups because of difference in views?
It is declining.
Both, really.
To some extent both, but people aren't becoming atheists at the rate a lot of people claim. Most people who are leaving churches simply don't see a reason to go.
@@Triumph263The younger generations are abandoning religion. You can label them however you want, if it's comforting. But religion is on the decline and it's about time. The Enlightenment was centuries ago and we've KNOWN for a long time that the Bible is mythology.
In 1990 90% of Americans identified as Christian. Today it's below 63% and falling rapidly.
Just read a news article that shared the SBC, one of the largest mainline denominations, has dropped roughly 3 million since 2006. This is about an 18-19 percent decrease from a peaking 16 million membership. Article stated that this last year they have lost nearly a half a million memberships and link that decline to a number of difference possible reasons. 1.) People leaving religion in general 2.) The covid pandemic 3.) The internal power grab within the SBC and 4.) The sexual abuse claims that started to come out about leadership.
I’d be wary of believing news articles written in the moment. The SBC churches I’ve addended haven’t seen a slump in attendance, but have seen a rebound since the pandemic.
@@MatthewChenault my experience on this is simply transference of memberships.
@@christinacody8653, that, too. The big thing that keeps up church attendance and membership is offering things like daycare service or youth programs.
It's crazy how sexual abuse is a thing there but then they turn around and say gays are controlled by demons. What a double standard.
at the same rate... crime, lawlesness, stupidity, drug usage, depression, suicide all increasing
all those things except depression, drug use and (arguably) stupidity peaked in the 80s... lead paint and de-industrialization did a number on gen x'ers
Regardless of what people think of why these Mainline Churches are declining, I think out reach would be a good idea regardless. One of the main tenants of the Bible is charity and giving, open up soup kitchens in the church on weekdays, donate to food banks, do fundraisers to give to charities to help the poor, sick and hungry.
We have a welfare state, so save your virtue signaling for suckers. Churches shouldn't be in the welfare business, unless your goal is to accelerate the decline of Christianity.
Most mainline churches are extremely involved in outreach. And pretty much everybody in the community benefits from it, even if they don't know about it (which they probably don't). Just my little Methodist church does the following: we contribute to and staff the local food pantry, we visits nursing home residents who have no visitors, we offer a free meal to anyone every Wednesday night, we tutor at the local elementary school, we pay for hotel rooms and other emergencies as requested by social workers (and they DO call), we subsidize a community preschool, we allow the Scouts and AA and the 4H groups to meet at the church at no cost, we sponsor blood drives and kid events like community Easter egg hunts and fishing derbies, we feed 200+ inner city folks at a nearby feeding center several times a year, and we allow the election board to use our property every Election Day. That's just the local stuff, and I'm not even including the contributions to overseas missions, the contributions to college scholarships, and the inevitable November-December contributions to the various Christmas drives.
And my church isn't an exception. I've attended several mainline churches over the past 40 years and they are ALL like that.
Well I wouldn’t doubt it with how political churches can be.
Business units!!!