Had a progressive UMC church down the street two years ago. That congregation slowly died out as they tried to embrace every inclusive initiative they could. Building was bought by a traditional Global Methodist Church. Building is bursting at the seams on Sunday mornings with young families.
"Rainbow" churches will fade and disappear since they have abandoned the clear teachings of the Gospel. I left the Episcopal Church when they abandoned the Gospel.
2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. (2Ti 4:3 NIV)
And we are in that time. We are experiencing the great Falling Away. When Jesus returns (Luke 18:8), will He find faith in the earth? That means we are in the Beginning of Sorrows phase (Matthew 24:7-8) that must take place before the Rapture. As the world descends into greater and greater sin, lift up your head because your redemption draws high (Luke 21:28). Jesus is coming back and soon. And His reward is with Him (Revelation 22:12-13).
Wow, Josh, your research is astounding. I'm a United Methodist and have been following this issue for some time and have been trying to keep up with the GC. Still, Iearned from your video.
If everything is seen as right, then nothing is wrong. Give it time and the the Specific portion/rebels of the United Methodist that have accepted/condoned the Act of homosexuality, will be condoning anything that enters their doors. Accepting of a repenting sinner is Love, condoning and promoting of the cardnal sin they carry on their shoulders is throwing a drowning man a chain tied to an anchor. You are not helping them a bit, but instead hurting them on another level. Oh, and the anchor has a 2nd chain attack with the other end attack to the bishop that threw the anchor to the drowning man.
@@JohnPaul-ol5zl Your smearing and broad brushing a whole group of particular Christian, Methodists, based on the sins of some of them. How are your tactics any different as the those who cancel anyone who thinks different from them?
I was sitting in a Methodist Church back in 2018, and was stunned when the Pastor was defending gay marriage. It amazes me how some churches just blow off God's word.
@@JMcKey21 Or maybe the church had been attempting to carry off a 'mix' which at best is spiritual schizophrenia. It doesn't work because God doesn't change.
I went to a UMC college in the 1980s. I took religion classes taught by ordained UMC ministers. All those classes were just assembly lines to make atheists. Those men did everything they could to get people NOT to believe in God. They were successful in most instances. If I had not been a Christian for about 10 years and grounded in my faith, they might have been able to do me some harm. Instead, we had some heavy arguments. I was the only one in the class to disagree with them. I was not their favorite student.
Always love how calm and objective these videos are, especially on topics that are typically filled with people arguing from places of pure emotion and/or prejudice
Sure! This video author is an absolute delight on the way he performs it and the other videos in his channel! And on the way he describes a so complex subject in a so small time framed video, coupled with a so visually appealing style! Congrats, because it is so rare to find someone who rightly does so! That said; I believe he is surely an Academic on this field and he knows very well what he's talking about!...
I argued from the Bible, and was told by a District Superintendent to only consider the words of Jesus. Sorry no, what a idiot. This was about money, the gays want the money and the land. They backed off and paused once they found out that most churches were deep in debt.
@JS-L90 Τί ἐστιν ἀλήθεια /Pontius Pilate has entered the chat/ To a follower of Y'shua, He is Truth. What we know of him is recorded in the 4 Gospels and the NT Canon. Homosexuality, adultery, fornication, polygamy- He warned against these things. Those who dispute His words, saying "did God really say" are disciples of the serpent. Your moral relativity's end is nihilism.
@@slickbill9488 The Church, founded by Christ, existed more than 300 years before the Church gave us the Bible. The Church existed before the Bible and the Church decided what would be included/excluded from the Bible. Luther discarded the Church and encouraged the mindless, rudderless worship of scripture. Without the Church...the foundation of truth, to interpret it, scripture is without authority. Scripture becomes just words interpreted without authority to mean anything men want it to mean. Christ's body is one. Christ's Church is one. There are over 35,000 Protestant denominations which accept virtually any creed. The ONLY thing which unifies Prorestants is their rejection of the Church Christ founded. Protestants have replaced Christ with adulterated, truncated scripture and find themselves buiding the tower of bable. There is no salvation outside of Christ. He is THE way.
It’s a sad day when people blatantly throw out God’s word. I can’t imagine how strong the mental gymnastics must be to justify affirming what God is explicitly against.
"can't imagine how strong the mental gymnastics.." Sorry but this is Religion projecting It's Christians that do the mental gymnastics when confronted with reality, and though many here don't realize it, they are doing it so when more and more people are no longer buying the fantasy sold by Religions. As a former Catholic/Christian long time Athiest, many here simply haven't started their journey out of their Religion and removed the shackles of indoctrination put on them since childhood.... But it will be worthwhile to begin that journey now.
@@AdmiralBisonI couldn’t disagree with you more. I am certain that God is real, that He came to Earth as Jesus, died as the punishment for my sin, and has reconciled me to Himself. I am not in any bondage whatsoever. I’ve never been more free. Jesus set me free from the bondage of sin.
If everything is seen as right, then nothing is wrong. Give it time and the Methodist will be condoning anything that enters their doors. Accepting of a repenting sinner is Love, condoning and promoting of the cardnal sin they carry on their shoulders is throwing a drowning man a chain tied to an anchor. You are not helping them a bit, but instead hurting them on another level. Oh, and the anchor has a 2nd chain attack with the other end attack to the bishop that threw the anchor to the drowning man.
“For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.” - 2 Timothy 4:3-4 KJV The Christian church as a whole continues to rapidly deteriorate. We’re in the end days. Read your Bible. Pray. Ye must be born again. God bless.
Ahh, another crackpot beLIEving "the book" is to be worshipped ... and not the teaching of the person whose name is used to define the type of religion discussed here (ignoring the various sects' names being reproached). There are the same types of people holding up progress in society in Iran, Saudi Arabia, etc who think "If we all follow THIS BOOK OF OURS, the world would be a better place". That idea doesn't work there, any more than it does here. Please don't vote.
Do you think it is "deteriorating" or as I KNEW what had to happen since I was a young boy...."destroyed"..."crushed'..."persecuted"...."REFINED in The FIRE"
Thank you for this video Josh and all of your research! I grew up in the United Methodist Church, and my mom is still a UMC pastor. As someone who's no longer a Methodist (I joined a different denomination), but still connected to the church, it's been tough to see the division I saw as a kid continue to fester into what it how now. At the same time, being on the outside looking in, it's been hard to grasp the full picture. As always, you wonderfully summed up everything without lacking any necessary substance!
I grew up in a small Free Methodist in PA. It closed years ago. I’m an Adult Sunday School teacher in the UMC. I use Wesley Pub House material. I’m sure it won’t be allowed now. Not sure what to do. Not many choices in my area. I’m heart sick.
Why? Because they are doing what Jesus asked of his followers. To love your neighbor as yourself? As a Christian you are to love the least of us; not condemn them.
@@RR64434 Just because you're called to love your neighbor doesn't mean you should allow them to live in their sin. As with any other sin they should repent and turn to Christ for forgiveness and not live in sin chasing after the idolatry of their hearts.
@@TheGatrGamr What sin did “Jesus” say about gay people? He spoke more about greed, lies and the powers that be mistreating the poor and the meek. Are you going arpund telling rich people about the sin they live in?
@@RR64434 there is a number of verses in the Bible saying homosexuality is a sin. Since the whole Bible is the Word of God these means that Jesus teaches it. My guess is you would respond to that saying it means pedophilic relationships in terms of Paul’s letters. This is in fact false and unless you’re about to learn Greek we’d be at an impasse. So I hope you have a blessed day and that the Lord would open your eyes to this grave sin.
Because that Scripture is nowhere near that clear in the original Hebrew. It is something like "And with a male you shall lie down the lyings of a woman." And the term "lyings" is debated on exactly what it means. Also "shall lie down" is most often used in a non-sexual context. The whole thing is people reading a euphemism and assuming it means the same thing as in English. It doesn't use the word "know" like Hebrew usually does for sex. And similar things apply to other such Scriptures. Paul uses a completely new word that people assume means "homosexuality"--one that he seems to have made up, and not the usual word for the term. Bibles as early as the 1800s translated it as "pedophilia", well before the LGBT movement. I'm not saying the traditional interpretation is wrong. But it's not nearly as clear as people like to make it out to be today. Don't get me wrong: there are other scriptures that are hard to translate, but it's interesting how strong the beliefs are based on these scriptures.
@@turkeypedal you live in the reality that is, exactly, created by the God of the Bible. There is no context within the Bible, which makes homosexuality ambiguous.
@@turkeypedalpeople seem to forget the simplicity that in the beginning God created a woman for and to complete a man. They were man and wife, and creation was perfected and considered good. Things are so simple. Homosexuality didn’t exist until after evil entered into the earth and men started to die 😂
The IRD has done a number of articles on the UMC's bureaucracy openly rigging the voting process to get this outcome. They denied assistance to overseas conferences to get visas, resulting in the lowest percentage of foreign delegates ever. They screened lay delegates on a congregation by congregation basis to ensure that non-affirming lay delegates would not be sent. They declared this an extension of the 2020 conference instead of a new conference because US membership had shrunk by ~15% in that time period and would result in a lower percentage of delegates allotted to the US. And much, much, much more.
And they won, and now they get to take the Church property. If people had put a stop to their shenanigans it might have been different, but here we are. The people who focus on fighting to win beat the people who focus on losing nobly.
Curious how that works. I moved and started attending for years, and probably leaving,but the church was built many decades ago and was paid off long ago. The church was self owned. It joined the conference. I guess it's like marriage. It becomes jointly owned. Problem is, unlike divorce, one gets it all it seems.
@@frpgplayer There is a clause in the UMC's constitution that declares that all church and agency property is held in trust by the UMC. This clause has existed in every constitution of the UMC going back to 1784 and every church that is formed or joins the UMC must vote to adhere to the UMC constitution and Book of Discipline. Unlike the situation in the PCUSA and the Episcopal Church, where the trust clauses were added in the 1970s and 80s and without any affirmative vote by the congregations. The national bodies of those churches pretty much said, "We own your property now." This is why there has been so much litigation over churches leaving the PCUSA and TEC but any litigation over leaving the UMC is a lost cause.
A very very sad day.. I grew up in the UMChurch, married, children baptized and married there. This is the end of the United Methodist Church and the beginning of the end.
by the grace of God I left the UMC when the split first began and joined the Holy Catholic Church. pray for me as i will enter the dominican order soon
@@rubiks6 Read Church history, please. Did you know that there were 30 popes before Constantine was born? And when was your church established? 1960s? 1700?
Good news! There is only one church. The bride of Christ. Made up of those who believe in the shed blood of our Savior, Jesus Christ. Our names are recorded in the Book of Life in Heaven. No denominations there!
There IS only one remnant true church....this is just away for satan to get rid of churches...true Christians have God in their hearts.....they believe the eord.😢
There would still be one church if it wasn’t for Roman Catholicism..I swear every smug comment from Catholics is about this boastful ego insulting other denominations ,,more insulting them considering Orthodoxy as it’s “little brother” 🙄 In the schism split of 1054 the west engaged in heritcal acts making the Papal authority and adding things to the nicene creed like the Filioque clause. Hence the church split BECAUSE OF ROMAN CATHOLICS. Then in 1517 because of clergy abuse and the Catholic Church behaving like the Mafia there was another split because of the abuse of power Martin Luther skewed the book to took out parts where people couldn’t eventually abuse power he had to do that BECAUSE IF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH do you see the trend? You can’t just boo hoo and complain about “one church” when the reason for 3 denominations it’s because of y’all to begin with! Then you always talk about “the orthodox should come back” attempting to verbally leave out Protestants because you feel like they are unworthy of the kingdom of heaven when Protestants and Orthodox at least have this one thing in common it’s because of the Catholic abuse they they exist in the first place.
Your explanation of what is going on in the United Methodist Church and its most recent General Conference is more precise and thorough than that of any outside observer I have seen, and almost any inside source, as well. I admire and applaud your discipline in reporting the facts in a clear and concise manner. Unfortunately, in its quest for worldly approval and relevance, the UMC is giving up Biblical standards and truth. It is now contending for secular social and political goals rather than for the faith and the faithful.
You might notice that in all the proclamations mentioned by Josh, absolutely none of them mentioned that they came about their conclusions from the Bible. Doesn't the Bible matter to these people?
I am now a former Methodist and we had a Conference employee call the Bible a stupid book during a sermon this year. Tells you where the UMC leadership stands. Sad to see them embrace the world.
The practice of homosexuality is inconsistent with Christian teaching. The Wesleys would be appalled with what just happened if they were alive today. No doubt they would have left the denomination. God can't truly bless any group condoning sin. So sad!
I admire the objective presentation in this video. I sympathize with the Methodists and ex-Methodists who still believe in the gospel. And I am profoundly grateful for the authority Jesus Christ himself vested in his teaching Church, still present in the Magisterium of the Holy Catholic Church. Come and see.
It’s a good thing we don’t hold past leaders to be infallible and future-proof. Tradition is a valued component of the Wesleyan quadrilateral but it does not stand on its own.
Father John is presumably still being purgated of his anti-papistry. Father Charles may have received a suspended sentence to write some new material for the Heavenly choir.
If they have fundamental differences in their beliefs, isn't it preferable that they split? A religious organisation is supposed to be a group of people with the same religious beliefs.
@@thomasdalton1508the lack of debate seems to be the larger issue - ignoring other people’s feelings on the matter will always lead to tension and eventually separation. as an LGBT person myself i fear things like this cause people to falsely believe that LGBT people and christianity are somehow incompatible, leading to a further entrenchment of homophobia and prejudice. the UMC needs to take a step back and evaluate how they handled this.
@@polikuszka I wouldn't describe it as a lack of debate. It is just that the debate has already happened. Everyone already knows everyone else's views on the subject. It was time to just make a decision.
I converted to the catholic church from methodism last year. I left the church after they had the kids singing “born this way” by lady gaga right after they sang “jesus loves the little children” what’s crazy is ive met a bunch of recent converts. 1 episcopal, 2 other methodists, and one non denom. The church is booming! People love traditional churches and none are more traditonal than ours.
I saw a Methodist service where a couple of women sang the Disney song “Brave” on the “altar” or whatever they call the stage in front of the congregation. Very strange
@@dylaneckstein2366 I like the orthodox, beards and glasses rock. They seem to hate me with an absolute passion and they come off as arrogant. Then when you have a good point they go all troll tactics. Probably just havent had the best experiences with them.
My mother lamented that her UMC in LA has been trying to leave for years and even have lawyers. If this is happening elsewhere, more exits are probably being delayed for whatever reason.
As a Catholic, we frequently pray at Holy Mass for our separated brothers and sisters. May God grant you all the peace of Christ during this time of strife in your church. Amen.
@@francismarion6400 The only marriages we have are between a man and woman who promise not to use contraception, open to life, freely consenting, and be exlusive with their bodies. Are you interested in learning more about Catholic teaching regarding Holy Matrimony and physical ethics? The Catechism of the Catholic Church has all teachings summarized between lines 1601 and 1666. I pray you find it spiritually edifying.
Praise God that the United Methodist Church has made it clear that they are not Christian. Clarity is many times more useful because you know exactly who you are fighting against.
Thanks for the considered breakdown of the situation. The Methodists have come a long way from John Wesley rising up at four in the morning to pray for several hours and then spending the rest of the day peaching to most often hostile crowds. Yet his devotion to God basically saved England. This situation does not escape the notice of a Holy Creator.
Yep, so many people do not even try to abstain from sins such as gluttony, homosexuality, adultery, lying, theft, coveting, dishonoring elders, idol worship, usury, and more that are all in the Holy Scriptures. It is one thing to try to abstain from sin. It is another thing to make a sin your identity.
Yes. Many of these people reject even the most fundamental beliefs of Christianity (the resurrection, etc., even the very existence of Christ). Scripture as suggestion is frankly the central point of liberal theology. Their catechism is developed at the Democratic National Convention.
You've done your research here and I am very proud and happy to see that. Redeemed Zoomer's video on this topic was so lacking in decent research and understanding of context and what happened that it was absolutely pathetic to see wherein he simply called conservatives cowards for abandoning the UMC to the progressive liberals.
@@milkwalkerjones633 Redeemed Zoomer is smart and he does his stuff very well but he's young and exuberant. He lacks life experience and tends to be condescending towards people who are not sharing particular views of his. Sadly he is amongst Calvinists and I think that is one of the worst possible denominations for him. He has the tendency to become a fundamentalist and Calvinism will only add to that. I really like him as a person but I hope he'll risk making the break with the Presbyterian Church some day.
My church disaffiliated last year. Sadly some small churches in the area could not afford to The UMC may have won this battle but they will not last. Many members will walk away and then there are those that dont want to be identified as the United Methodis Church of Perversion
I feel that in the next few years the UMC will find itself with a large amount of empty buildings and even smaller congregations. I don't see how they are going to survive embracing sin.
In most Annual Conferences it was very expensive for a congregation to leave the UMC. In some it was near impossible. A congregation also needed a super-majority of members voting to leave, and the vote had to be approved by the Annual Conference, which blocked some congregations from leaving. Roughly 25% of congregations disaffiliated, but I think another 25% will just disappear.
@@frzstat That's my prediction as well. The video is clear: Their average membership number is very small at this time. They'll simply to let those little conservative Churches to close down and sell the property. Most will close in the next few months as their members vote with their feet.
I think a bunch simply could not afford to leave. or were taking a wait and see approach. I don't think they expected to get stuck. Many that left did so only becasue they did not want to risk it.
After 50 years in leadership roles, I was told "Fact do not matter." and "Your concerns are not important to this church." My concerns did not have anything to do with this issue, but to the failure of the pastor to tell the truth, the failure of the trustees to follow the law, and a total lack of consideration of my views by all church members. I left the church, and it was the best thing I ever did. This recent decision shows I was right. You should belong to a church that shares your values.
I would recommend that they stay. This is a spiritual battle and giving up territory is how the enemy wins. I may not be a Methodist but Christians running away is an issue with society in general if you ask me.
@@tehZevo_ True. Though I also believe we should do the work we are went to do on this earth even if we don't see the fruit of it. We must be diligent.
Not quite. There are multiple Methodist denominations, such as the Free Methodist Church and Methodist Protestant Church, that uphold the teaching of Scripture.
That was a boatload of information! I am a Pentecostal if you care to look at denominations my friend pastors at a Methodist Church that went through the separation process. I’ve listened to a lot of it from his angle, but this did help understand a lot more of what really is happening especially since you can’t trust the world news! Appreciate your efforts!
If there were any evidence that liberal churches (like Episcopal, etc.) had stopped their precipitous declines (to say nothing of actually growing), you can bet the media would be shouting it from the rooftops.
Methodism is the church with the most converts to more high church groups imo. Can't tell you how many converts to Catholicism, Orthodoxy, ACNA etc. I've met who were raised Methodist
Hi, my name is Marcilla, and now you can add one more :) That's the thing - if you actually take Methodism seriously enough, you reach a point where being Methodist isn't Methodist enough anymore, if you feel me. "All roads... " as the saying goes.
When I was at a Catholic high school growing up, I had a classmate whose family was Methodist. After about a year or two they started occasionally attending Mass. Her father was fairly conservative politically; that may have factored into it.
No wonder since Methodist labels itself as middle way between Low Church and High Church but more favor High Church tradition. Also, Methodism believe in Prima Scriptura rather than Sola Scriptura can lead them to easily accepting Holy Apostolic Traditions as addition to Sacred Scripture.
Convert to the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church in 2012 and have never looked back. Come home, crossing the Tiber can be scary but worth the plunge! I was a lifelong Methodist but married to a fallen away Catholic. We are both now happy practicing Catholics and yes we have divisions too but also the promise that the gates of Hell will not prevail!
Wondering where someone can find a copy of the new UMC Bible that was used at general conference. It should be much lighter with all the pages removed.
Now, if this is acceptable what about pleural or unmarried relationships ? How would this be addressed from the pulpit? “ Get out of her my people that you do not share with her in her plagues!”
I live in a very, very rural area and pass a UMC on my way to the "Big" Town. In the last several months, I have noticed that it is closed down. I've wondered if this part of this debate, but it could be just lack of interest, which is common around here.
The amount of information provided by this guy in his various videos is impressive. Journalism that actually reports the facts, instead of just giving opinions. A refreshing change
Excellent presentation, Josh. Thank you for sharing all the information about the end of the United Methodist denomination. It is sad that the Bible is no longer the authority in that Church. It is right that the UMC be dissolved if they have chosen to deny God’s Word. How will the remnants of that church have a membership of God’s Word is not honored?
I went to a UMC funded college for 2 years and loved everything about my professors. I didn’t like their ecumenism and allowing women to “preach”, nor their very liberal stance on the Bible. Once I left the college, I have yet to formally attend a worship service.
Interesting how all those liberal denominations want to be "in communion" with each other. In reality, they are all the same. May those of us who desire to follow Christ and obey his word also recognize each other and gain a greater degree of unity. I don't mean in some officially documented way, but in our hearts, in spirit and truth.
Church splits come and go. Christians have always disagreed with each other. Divorces help us to get out of unhealthy relationships and move on. We are made of clay. Let us wish each other well and press on.
Our church used to be called McKendree United Methodist Church. We struggled to get 40 people in the door on any given Sunday. Now it's simply called McKendree Church. Leaving the United Methodist mafia was the best thing our church ever did. Our church now regularly has around 100 people attending every week.
Watching their convention, it's always deeply fascinating to see what things won't be tolerated. Previously, LGBTQ wasn't tolerated. Now opposition to LGBTQ isn't tolerated. There's still legalism and dogma, the question is, where does the authority for such dogma come from?
Please don't blame all UMC members. Keep in mind that many congregations that would like to leave the UMC simply can't afford to pay the ransom to keep their real estate. It is really terrible when you realize that it was those same congregations that paid for their churches to begin with, but the conference bishop holds their deeds for who knows what evil purpose.
It's one thing to eliminate the language of incompatibility. Mandating that church funds do not go to anything that rejects LGBTQ people, this language is political, restrictive, activist and bans dissent. This goes too far and doesn't appear to have spiritual motive rooted in the Gospel.
Yes, the UMC has changed drastically, it is called apostasy. They have clearly fallen away from The Way, The Truth and The Light. I pray for those fellowships that decided to separate, may they continue to share the true gospel of Christ.
I was informed by a friend of mine on Easter that there are Protestants in her congregation who do not believe in the resurrection of Jesus. My response was "what is the point?"
So....what religion should we consider the UMC to be? They certainly aren't Christian. They can't seem to disregard anything biblical fast enough. It seems they want to embrace everything that is unchristian. How about "The United Rainbow Church of Progressive Philosophy".
Most of the serious Christians left years ago. How could any true Christian sit through that insanely evil heresy even one time without standing & rebuking the pastor?
I left the Episcopal Church after the ordination of the 1st gay bishop in 2003 . It has been downhill ever sense with numerous church closings. Many conservatives have left either for Rome Orthodoxy or evangelical churches.
I was part of a mission organization in London England that was striving to partner with the Methodist Churches across the city. All of us became full members, attended meetings, and were trying to buddy up with them to get involved in sharing the gospel to the city. Their churches were dying and we were hoping to bring it new life. The head pastor for the area was retiring and got replaced by a lesbian woman. Normally we're supposed to have a fair vote on the matter of her coming in but the meetings and loads of information were kept from us. And all of us from the missionary end are very much against that--- we follow scripture the best we can. So basically she was forced upon our group by certain people that were higher up. We had a long extra year of trying to work with them anyway but things got really messy really quick. It's hard to summarize the amount of manipulation that happened. Basically we ended up being forced out of our partnership with them and a couple of people worked hard to humiliate us in front of the head of our organization who isn't even apart of the London location. Technically we weren't kicked out of being members. But we might as well have been kicked out. This is not just happening in America, it's becoming a problem in the British Methodist Church as well and I've heard other denominations have been suffering similar issues as well. We have to be strong as the body of Christ in not giving into false teaching.
Thank you for sharing this heartbreaking news. Don’t underestimate the power of one person standing for Christ. Because the traditionalist were not there to stand, no one was willing to stand on God’s Word.
😢 The Methodist church is no longer a Christian organization. To be a Christian you have to side with Jesus. If not then you are not a Christian. There are no gray areas.
Jesus said that the two most important commands are to love God and to love your neighbor as yourself. I believe that acknowledging LGBTQ people's lives are just as valid as straight people's lives is part of obeying the second command.
Greetings from a Catholic fellow-Christian! As you are peobably aware, the same trend has begun in my Church and will probably lead to an open schism (since officially "leaving" is impossible) which will be blamed on conservative, Bible-believing and tradition-oriented Catholics.
Yeah! That's it, my fellow brother! Or let us to see if I can be understandable, once I'm not even an English speaking native: While I'm generally happy when someone converts to our faith, on the other hand I always have my serious doubt when I read things on the likes of "Let us to come to the one Holly Catholic Faith, the one founded by Christ 2000 years ago, and the one whose unchangeable dogmas are the best ones of them all that will comfort and conform us to the Eternity!"... Huh? They want to convert because we don't have our challenges? SHAME ON THEM!... If only all those pedos that were permitted in our high altars were not suffix for our Church to have a huge problem sad enough for us to have some 50+ bad years in front of us, I don't know what else could have been? And have we dealt with it properly? Sorry!... We don't need to import the other's problems. Please deal with them properly. Consequently permit me finally a note to our fellow Christians now going out of the UMC? Do you want to come for the RCC for a wonderful faith experience? Great! We're here to support you!... Now: Do you want to come because your Church has problems you can't admit nor help to solve? SHAME ON YOU!... Please make us a favor: Fight within your ranks or shop elsewhere! We aren't here to support those whom are just malcontents elsewhere. We want adult Christians!...
At 33 years of age I just left the Catholic Church - which I was raised in my entire life - & was baptized into the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I thank God for his guidance.
@Cincy32 You were not in the Catholic Church but the Vatican II sect. You've now completely aposatized from Christ. In charity, you need to repent and convert.
@@j.knight9335 The Catholic Church allows abortionists to receive the Eucharist - such as Joe Biden. They are the ones who have turned their backs on Christ.
Mennonite church USA is going through a similar event, although not quite to this magnitude. It may be difficult to find details, but it might be worth looking into for future videos. Another informative video, thanks Joshua!
I don’t understand the obsession with homosexuality. It never keeps me up at night. Opening a “conservative” church is just making it political. I like politics out of my church. We’re supposed to love our neighbors. We ALL fall short of God’s glorious standard.
Please be aware that many congregations that would like to leave the UMC simply can' afford to pay the ransom to keep their real estate. I know of several such churches near me. It is really terrible when you realize that it was those congregations that paid for those churches to begin with, but the conference bishop holds their deeds.
That's why the provision was in place to allow churches to leave without needing to pay all of that. Besides, even now if you'd like to disaffiliate, you can vacate the building and move to a new one.
@@zacharyhenderson2902 Maybe in your conference, but not in mine. Each bishop makes his or her own rules. That's why we had to take it to the civil courts, UMC bishops have been ignoring rules made by General council for many years, That's how we got gay clergy and even a gay or lesbian bishop. We even have polygamist pastors in the UMC..
So glad I left the UMC church in 2010! I found a home in the Catholic church and I hope all of you looking for a home consider it. It has the fullness of the faith as taught from Jesus to today.
We were privileged to meet Dr. Christopher Yuan in Woodstock, Virginia just two weeks ago, during a six hour seminar presented by him at Antioch Covenant Church. His message/theme: "Holy Sexuality" he, having been delivered from a lifestyle of hedonistic homosexuality. Together with Angela Yuan, his mother, he authored "Out Of A Far Country" and "Holy Sexuality And The Gospel." Both books are available online and wherever Christian books are sold and are used extensively in university curriculum studies. His message: LIFE CHANGING for all!
Had a progressive UMC church down the street two years ago. That congregation slowly died out as they tried to embrace every inclusive initiative they could. Building was bought by a traditional Global Methodist Church. Building is bursting at the seams on Sunday mornings with young families.
That's totally something that actually happened.
@@20quid New Life Community Church in Summerside, Ohio, smarta$$
Wow. I believe it
@@thestrongseminariandon’t swear before the lord.
@@KandiKlover This person didn't.
Methodists: Even though we are so inclusive and liberal we're still shrinking and aging!
Episcopalians: First time?
They try to accept sin instead of sinners. Love the people but hate the sin. They have nothing to offer but hell
@@garythorington1600Exactly the same as the sins you commit each day. Or have you stopped sinning?
@@mosessupposes2571 no.
@@mosessupposes2571 Christ asks you the same thing.
@mosessupposes2571
If your sin doesn't greive you, are you sure you have the spirit?
"Rainbow" churches will fade and disappear since they have abandoned the clear teachings of the Gospel. I left the Episcopal Church when they abandoned the Gospel.
Sad to hear, sign of our times
Keep telling yourself that, I guess. Doesn't change the fact that many people who leave church cite mistreatment of LGBTQ+ people as a reason
It’s interesting Jesus never said a word about this disagreement.
@johncasciani3296. Jesus never mentioned that beastiality was wrong. I guess since He never mentioned it, it must be ok
Anti slavery churches will fade and disappear since they have abandoned the clear teachings of the bible
2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. (2Ti 4:3 NIV)
Amen. UMC is forgetting what the Bible teaches against accommodate people. That's dangerous.
@@garyhiggs9764 Amen as well. Forsake sin and follow Jesus
And we are in that time.
We are experiencing the great Falling Away. When Jesus returns (Luke 18:8), will He find faith in the earth?
That means we are in the Beginning of Sorrows phase (Matthew 24:7-8) that must take place before the Rapture. As the world descends into greater and greater sin, lift up your head because your redemption draws high (Luke 21:28). Jesus is coming back and soon. And His reward is with Him (Revelation 22:12-13).
@@protorhinocerator142 Paul said I the last days many will depart from the faith
@@garyhiggs9764 The key is to not be one of them. Hold on a little longer to your faith. Jesus is returning soon.
Wow, Josh, your research is astounding. I'm a United Methodist and have been following this issue for some time and have been trying to keep up with the GC. Still, Iearned from your video.
Thank you Franklin!
Get out while you can!
Friend, I think it’s time to be a Methodist and not United Methodist. That “United” part has given up the ghost a long time ago. ✝️🙏🏻
If everything is seen as right, then nothing is wrong. Give it time and the the Specific portion/rebels of the United Methodist that have accepted/condoned the Act of homosexuality, will be condoning anything that enters their doors.
Accepting of a repenting sinner is Love, condoning and promoting of the cardnal sin they carry on their shoulders is throwing a drowning man a chain tied to an anchor. You are not helping them a bit, but instead hurting them on another level. Oh, and the anchor has a 2nd chain attack with the other end attack to the bishop that threw the anchor to the drowning man.
@@JohnPaul-ol5zl Your smearing and broad brushing a whole group of particular Christian, Methodists, based on the sins of some of them. How are your tactics any different as the those who cancel anyone who thinks different from them?
I was sitting in a Methodist Church back in 2018, and was stunned when the Pastor was defending gay marriage. It amazes me how some churches just blow off God's word.
It's a business and their traditionalist brand isn't selling well any longer.
@@JMcKey21 Or maybe the church had been attempting to carry off a 'mix' which at best is spiritual schizophrenia. It doesn't work because God doesn't change.
@@JMcKey21a business? What money are they generating?
@@timotundyRoughly 134 million dollars pre-pandemic. Dropped quite a bit during the pandemic.
Yea are you shaving your face and getting tattoos? What is the difference??
I went to a UMC college in the 1980s. I took religion classes taught by ordained UMC ministers. All those classes were just assembly lines to make atheists. Those men did everything they could to get people NOT to believe in God. They were successful in most instances. If I had not been a Christian for about 10 years and grounded in my faith, they might have been able to do me some harm. Instead, we had some heavy arguments. I was the only one in the class to disagree with them. I was not their favorite student.
Bless you for standing up for your faith.
Oh, if they couldn't convince the kids to become atheists, the fall back often was for them to formally become Muslims. Check out American University.
But your heavenly father was very proud of you.
Sounds like the old joke - "Seminaries are where the good men go to lose their faith"
@@JasonTaylor-po5xc I heard it phrased as "Seminary = Cemetery."
Always love how calm and objective these videos are, especially on topics that are typically filled with people arguing from places of pure emotion and/or prejudice
Sure! This video author is an absolute delight on the way he performs it and the other videos in his channel! And on the way he describes a so complex subject in a so small time framed video, coupled with a so visually appealing style! Congrats, because it is so rare to find someone who rightly does so! That said; I believe he is surely an Academic on this field and he knows very well what he's talking about!...
Jesus Encounter Ministries RUclips channel
I argued from the Bible, and was told by a District Superintendent to only consider the words of Jesus.
Sorry no, what a idiot.
This was about money, the gays want the money and the land. They backed off and paused once they found out that most churches were deep in debt.
God will not be mocked. His Word is crystal clear.
Gen 15:16b
“for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet complete.”
The falling away will be complete, then Judgement will come.
And just so happens to support everything you say 100%. Smh.
Says a bunch of different people about any given topic
@JS-L90
Τί ἐστιν ἀλήθεια
/Pontius Pilate has entered the chat/
To a follower of Y'shua, He is Truth. What we know of him is recorded in the 4 Gospels and the NT Canon.
Homosexuality, adultery, fornication, polygamy- He warned against these things.
Those who dispute His words, saying "did God really say" are disciples of the serpent.
Your moral relativity's end is nihilism.
Jesus Encounter Ministries RUclips channel
This is what happens when sin enters the camp.
The UMC is no longer using the scriptures; rejecting God's Word will be their downfall.
Correct. It's no longer a church. It's just a social club. Might as well be the local Elks club.
@@67L48 Does anyone even remember when lodge membership was divisive?
Scripture came out of the Church. Once Luther separated scripture from the Church which gave it to us, it became lifeless and uninspired.
@@MrGus.1 uh no Scripture came to the Church not out of the Church.
@@slickbill9488 The Church, founded by Christ, existed more than 300 years before the Church gave us the Bible. The Church existed before the Bible and the Church decided what would be included/excluded from the Bible. Luther discarded the Church and encouraged the mindless, rudderless worship of scripture. Without the Church...the foundation of truth, to interpret it, scripture is without authority. Scripture becomes just words interpreted without authority to mean anything men want it to mean. Christ's body is one. Christ's Church is one. There are over 35,000 Protestant denominations which accept virtually any creed. The ONLY thing which unifies Prorestants is their rejection of the Church Christ founded. Protestants have replaced Christ with adulterated, truncated scripture and find themselves buiding the tower of bable. There is no salvation outside of Christ. He is THE way.
Josh, you have no idea how much of a blessing you are. Thanks for your videos.
I appreciate that! Thanks for taking the time to watch.
@@ReadyToHarvest couldn't agree more.
It’s a sad day when people blatantly throw out God’s word. I can’t imagine how strong the mental gymnastics must be to justify affirming what God is explicitly against.
"can't imagine how strong the mental gymnastics.."
Sorry but this is Religion projecting
It's Christians that do the mental gymnastics when confronted with reality, and though many here don't realize it, they are doing it so when more and more people are no longer buying the fantasy sold by Religions.
As a former Catholic/Christian long time Athiest, many here simply haven't started their journey out of their Religion and removed the shackles of indoctrination put on them since childhood.... But it will be worthwhile to begin that journey now.
It’s self-delusion from human pride. Can’t get past themselves. God is God and we are not.
@@AdmiralBisonI couldn’t disagree with you more. I am certain that God is real, that He came to Earth as Jesus, died as the punishment for my sin, and has reconciled me to Himself. I am not in any bondage whatsoever. I’ve never been more free. Jesus set me free from the bondage of sin.
@@AdmiralBison removal of one shackle to put on another. Progress.
If everything is seen as right, then nothing is wrong. Give it time and the Methodist will be condoning anything that enters their doors.
Accepting of a repenting sinner is Love, condoning and promoting of the cardnal sin they carry on their shoulders is throwing a drowning man a chain tied to an anchor. You are not helping them a bit, but instead hurting them on another level. Oh, and the anchor has a 2nd chain attack with the other end attack to the bishop that threw the anchor to the drowning man.
“For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.” - 2 Timothy 4:3-4 KJV
The Christian church as a whole continues to rapidly deteriorate. We’re in the end days. Read your Bible. Pray. Ye must be born again. God bless.
We have been in the end days since Jesus left this earth.
Ahh, another crackpot beLIEving "the book" is to be worshipped ... and not the teaching of the person whose name is used to define the type of religion discussed here (ignoring the various sects' names being reproached).
There are the same types of people holding up progress in society in Iran, Saudi Arabia, etc who think "If we all follow THIS BOOK OF OURS, the world would be a better place". That idea doesn't work there, any more than it does here.
Please don't vote.
Do you think it is "deteriorating" or as I KNEW what had to happen since I was a young boy...."destroyed"..."crushed'..."persecuted"...."REFINED in The FIRE"
@@run4cmt Then we should act like it and if you love Jesus obey him. Act like he can come today
2nd Timothy is a forgery.
Thank you for this video Josh and all of your research! I grew up in the United Methodist Church, and my mom is still a UMC pastor. As someone who's no longer a Methodist (I joined a different denomination), but still connected to the church, it's been tough to see the division I saw as a kid continue to fester into what it how now. At the same time, being on the outside looking in, it's been hard to grasp the full picture. As always, you wonderfully summed up everything without lacking any necessary substance!
Your mom is a UMC non-Biblical pastor.
Thanks for the information. As a Free Methodist pastor, it deeply grieves me to hear about everything that has happened in the UMC.
I grew up in a small Free Methodist in PA. It closed years ago. I’m an Adult Sunday School teacher in the UMC. I use Wesley Pub House material. I’m sure it won’t be allowed now. Not sure what to do. Not many choices in my area. I’m heart sick.
Why? Because they are doing what Jesus asked of his followers. To love your neighbor as yourself? As a Christian you are to love the least of us; not condemn them.
@@RR64434 Just because you're called to love your neighbor doesn't mean you should allow them to live in their sin. As with any other sin they should repent and turn to Christ for forgiveness and not live in sin chasing after the idolatry of their hearts.
@@TheGatrGamr What sin did “Jesus” say about gay people? He spoke more about greed, lies and the powers that be mistreating the poor and the meek. Are you going arpund telling rich people about the sin they live in?
@@RR64434 there is a number of verses in the Bible saying homosexuality is a sin. Since the whole Bible is the Word of God these means that Jesus teaches it. My guess is you would respond to that saying it means pedophilic relationships in terms of Paul’s letters. This is in fact false and unless you’re about to learn Greek we’d be at an impasse. So I hope you have a blessed day and that the Lord would open your eyes to this grave sin.
Heretics are gonna heretic
Sad but true.
That's the nature of Protestantism.
Im gonna say this respectfully. Protestants gonna Protest.
@@fernandotemiquel4677classic Protestant heresy
I would still rather have a heretical church than mystery Babylon papacy
"A Man shall not sleep with a man as with a woman" What is so difficult to understand about that?
Karl Marx
Because that Scripture is nowhere near that clear in the original Hebrew. It is something like "And with a male you shall lie down the lyings of a woman." And the term "lyings" is debated on exactly what it means. Also "shall lie down" is most often used in a non-sexual context.
The whole thing is people reading a euphemism and assuming it means the same thing as in English. It doesn't use the word "know" like Hebrew usually does for sex.
And similar things apply to other such Scriptures. Paul uses a completely new word that people assume means "homosexuality"--one that he seems to have made up, and not the usual word for the term. Bibles as early as the 1800s translated it as "pedophilia", well before the LGBT movement.
I'm not saying the traditional interpretation is wrong. But it's not nearly as clear as people like to make it out to be today. Don't get me wrong: there are other scriptures that are hard to translate, but it's interesting how strong the beliefs are based on these scriptures.
@@turkeypedal you live in the reality that is, exactly, created by the God of the Bible. There is no context within the Bible, which makes homosexuality ambiguous.
The world is entrenched in a low IQ, antichrist representation of a Bolshevik revolution.
@@turkeypedalpeople seem to forget the simplicity that in the beginning God created a woman for and to complete a man. They were man and wife, and creation was perfected and considered good. Things are so simple. Homosexuality didn’t exist until after evil entered into the earth and men started to die 😂
My uncle was a great pastor in a UMC here in Brooke's Point, Palawan, Philippines. He left the church a few years ago because of this issue.
Did their church leave for a more conservative methodist church or convert?
@@parrotconservative some of the members and my uncle now has a new church which he himself started right after he left UMC.
That's a shame. Hopefully he chills out and stops hating on people for doing nothing except loving the people that they love.
What a blessing....he chose God and righteousness over political correctness ❤
@@20quid God was very clear. Anything else is the work of the devil. I hope you enjoy it bud!
The IRD has done a number of articles on the UMC's bureaucracy openly rigging the voting process to get this outcome. They denied assistance to overseas conferences to get visas, resulting in the lowest percentage of foreign delegates ever. They screened lay delegates on a congregation by congregation basis to ensure that non-affirming lay delegates would not be sent. They declared this an extension of the 2020 conference instead of a new conference because US membership had shrunk by ~15% in that time period and would result in a lower percentage of delegates allotted to the US. And much, much, much more.
And they won, and now they get to take the Church property. If people had put a stop to their shenanigans it might have been different, but here we are. The people who focus on fighting to win beat the people who focus on losing nobly.
The IRD bought votes before. They speak about what reflects their own actions. They sow dissent and propagated the splits in all Mainline churches.
Curious how that works. I moved and started attending for years, and probably leaving,but the church was built many decades ago and was paid off long ago.
The church was self owned. It joined the conference.
I guess it's like marriage. It becomes jointly owned. Problem is, unlike divorce, one gets it all it seems.
@@frpgplayer There is a clause in the UMC's constitution that declares that all church and agency property is held in trust by the UMC. This clause has existed in every constitution of the UMC going back to 1784 and every church that is formed or joins the UMC must vote to adhere to the UMC constitution and Book of Discipline.
Unlike the situation in the PCUSA and the Episcopal Church, where the trust clauses were added in the 1970s and 80s and without any affirmative vote by the congregations. The national bodies of those churches pretty much said, "We own your property now."
This is why there has been so much litigation over churches leaving the PCUSA and TEC but any litigation over leaving the UMC is a lost cause.
Playing fair would have been "extremely dangerous for their democracy."
I moved here 13 years ago. When I came, the local UMC church's parking lot was typically full on Sunday morning. Now it's half-full.
A very very sad day.. I grew up in the UMChurch, married, children baptized and married there. This is the end of the United Methodist Church and the beginning of the end.
So you are sad that people aren’t homophobic?
by the grace of God I left the UMC when the split first began and joined the Holy Catholic Church. pray for me as i will enter the dominican order soon
Welcome home. You are at the Church that Jesus established himself 2000 years ago.
You've gone from bad to the worst.
@@maxellton - You mean the church that Constantine established. Why do you think it's called "Roman"?
@@rubiks6 Read Church history, please. Did you know that there were 30 popes before Constantine was born?
And when was your church established? 1960s? 1700?
Join a church where they preach the Bible.
I have yet to meet a Catholic priest who understands the Bible.
Catholicism and orthodoxy is looking pretty good right now. I’m not a fan of a lot of divisions. In fact I wish there was one church.
Thirty year Catholic convert here. We have our issues but the Church is still standing after 2000 years
Good news! There is only one church. The bride of Christ. Made up of those who believe in the shed blood of our Savior, Jesus Christ. Our names are recorded in the Book of Life in Heaven. No denominations there!
God also is not a fan of divisions. He intended us to be one in body and spirit. One faith, one baptism, one Church!
There IS only one remnant true church....this is just away for satan to get rid of churches...true Christians have God in their hearts.....they believe the eord.😢
There would still be one church if it wasn’t for Roman Catholicism..I swear every smug comment from Catholics is about this boastful ego insulting other denominations ,,more insulting them considering Orthodoxy as it’s “little brother” 🙄
In the schism split of 1054 the west engaged in heritcal acts making the Papal authority and adding things to the nicene creed like the Filioque clause. Hence the church split BECAUSE OF ROMAN CATHOLICS.
Then in 1517 because of clergy abuse and the Catholic Church behaving like the Mafia there was another split because of the abuse of power Martin Luther skewed the book to took out parts where people couldn’t eventually abuse power he had to do that BECAUSE IF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
do you see the trend? You can’t just boo hoo and complain about “one church” when the reason for 3 denominations it’s because of y’all to begin with!
Then you always talk about “the orthodox should come back” attempting to verbally leave out Protestants because you feel like they are unworthy of the kingdom of heaven when Protestants and Orthodox at least have this one thing in common it’s because of the Catholic abuse they they exist in the first place.
Your explanation of what is going on in the United Methodist Church and its most recent General Conference is more precise and thorough than that of any outside observer I have seen, and almost any inside source, as well. I admire and applaud your discipline in reporting the facts in a clear and concise manner. Unfortunately, in its quest for worldly approval and relevance, the UMC is giving up Biblical standards and truth. It is now contending for secular social and political goals rather than for the faith and the faithful.
may as well be Unitarians.
Another gay cooties fit.
You might notice that in all the proclamations mentioned by Josh, absolutely none of them mentioned that they came about their conclusions from the Bible. Doesn't the Bible matter to these people?
What Bible? Whats that? Anybody seen a Bible lately?
I am now a former Methodist and we had a Conference employee call the Bible a stupid book during a sermon this year. Tells you where the UMC leadership stands. Sad to see them embrace the world.
Nope.
A Methodist Pastor in our town said you had to go outside the Bible to other sources to get the full truth.
lol. If they did they couldn't do any of this stuff. Its not about God ir what he wabts. Its about the Alphabet people and what they want.
I am right in the middle of this - and did you ever do a great job in giving context and getting the facts right. Fantastic work!
The practice of homosexuality is inconsistent with Christian teaching. The Wesleys would be appalled with what just happened if they were alive today. No doubt they would have left the denomination. God can't truly bless any group condoning sin. So sad!
they likely would have burned it to the ground.
Sodom and Gomorrah! 🔥
Just like opposition to slavery
In reality, they would have probably left long ago. I believe they would have been opposed to slavery as well.
I admire the objective presentation in this video. I sympathize with the Methodists and ex-Methodists who still believe in the gospel. And I am profoundly grateful for the authority Jesus Christ himself vested in his teaching Church, still present in the Magisterium of the Holy Catholic Church. Come and see.
John Wesley and past congregations can be heard in mass rolling in their graves.
Screaming from hell
Entire sanctification becomes a lot easier when you declare that sins are no longer sins.
It’s a good thing we don’t hold past leaders to be infallible and future-proof. Tradition is a valued component of the Wesleyan quadrilateral but it does not stand on its own.
Father John is presumably still being purgated of his anti-papistry. Father Charles may have received a suspended sentence to write some new material for the Heavenly choir.
@@thomasthellamas9886 Why would you say that John Wesley and earlier bible-believing Methodists are "screaming from hell"?
i was Methodist at one point and left over this issue. it's really sad to see the church tearing itself apart.
Same here. UMC is heretical leaving God's Word behind.
If they have fundamental differences in their beliefs, isn't it preferable that they split? A religious organisation is supposed to be a group of people with the same religious beliefs.
The problem is they want to have a Church in Christs name but don’t follow HIM.
@@thomasdalton1508the lack of debate seems to be the larger issue - ignoring other people’s feelings on the matter will always lead to tension and eventually separation. as an LGBT person myself i fear things like this cause people to falsely believe that LGBT people and christianity are somehow incompatible, leading to a further entrenchment of homophobia and prejudice.
the UMC needs to take a step back and evaluate how they handled this.
@@polikuszka I wouldn't describe it as a lack of debate. It is just that the debate has already happened. Everyone already knows everyone else's views on the subject. It was time to just make a decision.
I converted to the catholic church from methodism last year. I left the church after they had the kids singing “born this way” by lady gaga right after they sang “jesus loves the little children” what’s crazy is ive met a bunch of recent converts. 1 episcopal, 2 other methodists, and one non denom. The church is booming! People love traditional churches and none are more traditonal than ours.
I saw a Methodist service where a couple of women sang the Disney song “Brave” on the “altar” or whatever they call the stage in front of the congregation. Very strange
East Orthodox is more traditional but yeah they are both the oldest.
Primitive Baptist
@@dylaneckstein2366 I like the orthodox, beards and glasses rock. They seem to hate me with an absolute passion and they come off as arrogant. Then when you have a good point they go all troll tactics. Probably just havent had the best experiences with them.
I am just curious. Why did you go to Roman Catholic Church and not an Orthodox Church
My mother lamented that her UMC in LA has been trying to leave for years and even have lawyers. If this is happening elsewhere, more exits are probably being delayed for whatever reason.
As a Catholic, we frequently pray at Holy Mass for our separated brothers and sisters. May God grant you all the peace of Christ during this time of strife in your church. Amen.
Have you had the opportunity to attend an lgbt union at your church yet?
@@francismarion6400 No idea what a union is, but I had two gay roommates at my Catholic university. Does that count?
@@derek4412 Union = Marriage
@@francismarion6400 The only marriages we have are between a man and woman who promise not to use contraception, open to life, freely consenting, and be exlusive with their bodies. Are you interested in learning more about Catholic teaching regarding Holy Matrimony and physical ethics? The Catechism of the Catholic Church has all teachings summarized between lines 1601 and 1666. I pray you find it spiritually edifying.
@derek4412 Then maybe you tell me what it means when Francis says to recognize same sex unions.
Praise God that the United Methodist Church has made it clear that they are not Christian. Clarity is many times more useful because you know exactly who you are fighting against.
The catholics said the same thing about Protestants.
@@Griffologee The Catholics have the same problem as the Methodists. Good point.
@@Griffologeeprotestants never celebrated perversion.
LOL
@@reallysomebody nothing funny about any of this.
Thanks for the considered breakdown of the situation. The Methodists have come a long way from John Wesley rising up at four in the morning to pray for several hours and then spending the rest of the day peaching to most often hostile crowds. Yet his devotion to God basically saved England. This situation does not escape the notice of a Holy Creator.
And now a part of the order of social clubs.
Thank you for your even-handed, unbiased reporting! Very informative! And very well written and presented!
Thank you, Sharon!
over the split i noticed every UM church in my town is no longer UM. proud of em
The Bible is just a book of suggestions to some of these people, isn't it?
Yep, so many people do not even try to abstain from sins such as gluttony, homosexuality, adultery, lying, theft, coveting, dishonoring elders, idol worship, usury, and more that are all in the Holy Scriptures. It is one thing to try to abstain from sin. It is another thing to make a sin your identity.
Yes. Many of these people reject even the most fundamental beliefs of Christianity (the resurrection, etc., even the very existence of Christ). Scripture as suggestion is frankly the central point of liberal theology. Their catechism is developed at the Democratic National Convention.
To all people. Christians today largely oppose slavery even though the bible condones it
You've done your research here and I am very proud and happy to see that. Redeemed Zoomer's video on this topic was so lacking in decent research and understanding of context and what happened that it was absolutely pathetic to see wherein he simply called conservatives cowards for abandoning the UMC to the progressive liberals.
Redeemed Zoomer is incredibly biased and downright hostile to things he doesn't understand. It's very strange.
@@milkwalkerjones633 Redeemed Zoomer is smart and he does his stuff very well but he's young and exuberant. He lacks life experience and tends to be condescending towards people who are not sharing particular views of his. Sadly he is amongst Calvinists and I think that is one of the worst possible denominations for him. He has the tendency to become a fundamentalist and Calvinism will only add to that. I really like him as a person but I hope he'll risk making the break with the Presbyterian Church some day.
My church disaffiliated last year. Sadly some small churches in the area could not afford to
The UMC may have won this battle but they will not last. Many members will walk away and then there are those that dont want to be identified as the United Methodis Church of Perversion
I feel that in the next few years the UMC will find itself with a large amount of empty buildings and even smaller congregations. I don't see how they are going to survive embracing sin.
@@kathy3178 shhh... just let it happen. my church is in the market for a nice building with adequate parking lol.
I can’t believe so many churches stayed and so little left.
In most Annual Conferences it was very expensive for a congregation to leave the UMC. In some it was near impossible. A congregation also needed a super-majority of members voting to leave, and the vote had to be approved by the Annual Conference, which blocked some congregations from leaving. Roughly 25% of congregations disaffiliated, but I think another 25% will just disappear.
@@frzstat That's my prediction as well. The video is clear: Their average membership number is very small at this time. They'll simply to let those little conservative Churches to close down and sell the property. Most will close in the next few months as their members vote with their feet.
@@frzstat Right, so many of the churches there were not able to separate are going to be more vacant except in very liberal areas.
Money
I think a bunch simply could not afford to leave. or were taking a wait and see approach. I don't think they expected to get stuck. Many that left did so only becasue they did not want to risk it.
After 50 years in leadership roles, I was told "Fact do not matter." and "Your concerns are not important to this church." My concerns did not have anything to do with this issue, but to the failure of the pastor to tell the truth, the failure of the trustees to follow the law, and a total lack of consideration of my views by all church members. I left the church, and it was the best thing I ever did. This recent decision shows I was right. You should belong to a church that shares your values.
All true believers who are still in the Methodist church, must leave that Apostate church.
But money and property!
I would recommend that they stay. This is a spiritual battle and giving up territory is how the enemy wins. I may not be a Methodist but Christians running away is an issue with society in general if you ask me.
@@trilight3597 The enemy's fate is already determined.
@@tehZevo_ True. Though I also believe we should do the work we are went to do on this earth even if we don't see the fruit of it. We must be diligent.
Not quite. There are multiple Methodist denominations, such as the Free Methodist Church and Methodist Protestant Church, that uphold the teaching of Scripture.
I left in 2022. It’s so sad. Most of my experience in the UMC was a warm hearted evangelicalism. It devolved into chaos.
Yes, I grew up in a very different Methodist church than is represented today.
Fine choice of words Pastor. Good on you.
Same, here. Not the Methodist church I grew up in. Very sad.
Sin will do that
I truly think the leadership was infiltrated by atheists. I don't think this is an isolated incident either.
That was a boatload of information! I am a Pentecostal if you care to look at denominations my friend pastors at a Methodist Church that went through the separation process. I’ve listened to a lot of it from his angle, but this did help understand a lot more of what really is happening especially since you can’t trust the world news! Appreciate your efforts!
Thanks Josh. Do you have any videos tracking the growth-effects LGBTQ+ accepting churches? Do they tend to shrink after going liberal on this issue?
If there were any evidence that liberal churches (like Episcopal, etc.) had stopped their precipitous declines (to say nothing of actually growing), you can bet the media would be shouting it from the rooftops.
I’ve been interested in this actually
One local church that was always packed is now down to 10 members
Methodism is the church with the most converts to more high church groups imo. Can't tell you how many converts to Catholicism, Orthodoxy, ACNA etc. I've met who were raised Methodist
Hi, my name is Marcilla, and now you can add one more :)
That's the thing - if you actually take Methodism seriously enough, you reach a point where being Methodist isn't Methodist enough anymore, if you feel me. "All roads... " as the saying goes.
When I was at a Catholic high school growing up, I had a classmate whose family was Methodist. After about a year or two they started occasionally attending Mass. Her father was fairly conservative politically; that may have factored into it.
No wonder since Methodist labels itself as middle way between Low Church and High Church but more favor High Church tradition.
Also, Methodism believe in Prima Scriptura rather than Sola Scriptura can lead them to easily accepting Holy Apostolic Traditions as addition to Sacred Scripture.
Convert to the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church in 2012 and have never looked back. Come home, crossing the Tiber can be scary but worth the plunge! I was a lifelong Methodist but married to a fallen away Catholic. We are both now happy practicing Catholics and yes we have divisions too but also the promise that the gates of Hell will not prevail!
Former Methodist here. I converted to Catholicism 30 years ago. I have never looked back. I am home
Got to rebuke the local UMC here in Massillon. They were not happy 😮 with my open air preaching 😀
Wondering where someone can find a copy of the new UMC Bible that was used at general conference. It should be much lighter with all the pages removed.
Nice one
Agreed.
Now, if this is acceptable what about pleural or unmarried relationships ? How would this be addressed from the pulpit?
“ Get out of her my people that you do not share with her in her plagues!”
The Methodist Church is over.
I live in a very, very rural area and pass a UMC on my way to the "Big" Town. In the last several months, I have noticed that it is closed down. I've wondered if this part of this debate, but it could be just lack of interest, which is common around here.
I grew up UMC but left the church in 2016. I’m now a Catholic.
The amount of information provided by this guy in his various videos is impressive. Journalism that actually reports the facts, instead of just giving opinions. A refreshing change
Given this controversy. I am curious how many methodists would be open to Catholicism?
A noticeable amount I would imagine.
Catholics have issues as well. Not interested.
Excellent presentation, Josh. Thank you for sharing all the information about the end of the United Methodist denomination. It is sad that the Bible is no longer the authority in that Church. It is right that the UMC be dissolved if they have chosen to deny God’s Word. How will the remnants of that church have a membership of God’s Word is not honored?
Just stop pretending to be Christian if you can't follow Christ....
They are finished. Every church that has gone this way has faded into oblivion.
I went to a UMC funded college for 2 years and loved everything about my professors. I didn’t like their ecumenism and allowing women to “preach”, nor their very liberal stance on the Bible. Once I left the college, I have yet to formally attend a worship service.
Interesting how all those liberal denominations want to be "in communion" with each other. In reality, they are all the same. May those of us who desire to follow Christ and obey his word also recognize each other and gain a greater degree of unity. I don't mean in some officially documented way, but in our hearts, in spirit and truth.
Thank you for this report that is news how I like it without an opinion keep up the good work
Church splits come and go. Christians have always disagreed with each other. Divorces help us to get out of unhealthy relationships and move on. We are made of clay. Let us wish each other well and press on.
Well said. I wish more people thought like this.
Thank you for this in depth explanation of UMC “falling away” from Holy Scripture.🥺🧐🤔☹️
God will not be mocked.
Our church used to be called McKendree United Methodist Church. We struggled to get 40 people in the door on any given Sunday. Now it's simply called McKendree Church. Leaving the United Methodist mafia was the best thing our church ever did. Our church now regularly has around 100 people attending every week.
Watching their convention, it's always deeply fascinating to see what things won't be tolerated.
Previously, LGBTQ wasn't tolerated. Now opposition to LGBTQ isn't tolerated.
There's still legalism and dogma, the question is, where does the authority for such dogma come from?
The church’s stance on racism followed a similar track. Strange how love always seems to win in these debates
Love of sin.
@@Magic-YakRacism doesn't exist.
@@francismarion6400 That's the most delusional and utterly false 3-word sentence I've ever seen!
@@hemiolaguy You're confusing yourself with hatred.
A channel called PlainSpoken has extensive coverage of this year's UMC conference.
Thank you for the overview! I’m not methodist but I have a methodist friend and this has been hard to track
Please don't blame all UMC members. Keep in mind that many congregations that would like to leave the UMC simply can't afford to pay the ransom to keep their real estate. It is really terrible when you realize that it was those same congregations that paid for their churches to begin with, but the conference bishop holds their deeds for who knows what evil purpose.
Greed.
It's one thing to eliminate the language of incompatibility. Mandating that church funds do not go to anything that rejects LGBTQ people, this language is political, restrictive, activist and bans dissent. This goes too far and doesn't appear to have spiritual motive rooted in the Gospel.
Jesus Encounter Ministries RUclips channel
Josh, you are a real chronicler of this era of christianity.
Yes, the UMC has changed drastically, it is called apostasy. They have clearly fallen away from The Way, The Truth and The Light. I pray for those fellowships that decided to separate, may they continue to share the true gospel of Christ.
The UMC will need to redact some sections of Paul’s ministry. They place the world ahead of God.
they are going to need an entirely new Bible.
They’ve been ignoring Paul for decades.
The lotus position sitting poster at 13:44
Really guys?
I was informed by a friend of mine on Easter that there are Protestants in her congregation who do not believe in the resurrection of Jesus. My response was "what is the point?"
So....what religion should we consider the UMC to be? They certainly aren't Christian. They can't seem to disregard anything biblical fast enough. It seems they want to embrace everything that is unchristian. How about "The United Rainbow Church of Progressive Philosophy".
The church the devil has conquered. That is what it is.
So glad I disaffiliated! Thank God for the Global Methodist Church!
The Bible also condemns murder, so the Methodists should come out in favor of that, too.
Don't they condone abortion, too?
@@alswearingen323 I think they do. They're following the Leftist playbook, not the Bible.
Thank you,Joshua⭐🌹⭐🌹
Most of the serious Christians left years ago.
How could any true Christian sit through that insanely evil heresy even one time without standing & rebuking the pastor?
The great “ falling away from the truth “ is in full swing . There is going to be a huge number of people that Christ will say “ I never knew you “ .
He's going to approach all the homophobes and ask why they didn't listen when he told them to love their neighbours.
I left the Episcopal Church after the ordination of the 1st gay bishop in 2003 . It has been downhill ever sense with numerous church closings. Many conservatives have left either for Rome Orthodoxy or evangelical churches.
Your videos are great for learning English. I usually do not have problems to understand, but in this video I had to really focus who did what.
Thanks for this thorough and clear coverage....this is very horrifying...
UMC has brought heterodoxy to their midst. Very sad!!!!!
Late Stage Protestantism
I was part of a mission organization in London England that was striving to partner with the Methodist Churches across the city. All of us became full members, attended meetings, and were trying to buddy up with them to get involved in sharing the gospel to the city. Their churches were dying and we were hoping to bring it new life. The head pastor for the area was retiring and got replaced by a lesbian woman. Normally we're supposed to have a fair vote on the matter of her coming in but the meetings and loads of information were kept from us. And all of us from the missionary end are very much against that--- we follow scripture the best we can. So basically she was forced upon our group by certain people that were higher up. We had a long extra year of trying to work with them anyway but things got really messy really quick. It's hard to summarize the amount of manipulation that happened. Basically we ended up being forced out of our partnership with them and a couple of people worked hard to humiliate us in front of the head of our organization who isn't even apart of the London location. Technically we weren't kicked out of being members. But we might as well have been kicked out. This is not just happening in America, it's becoming a problem in the British Methodist Church as well and I've heard other denominations have been suffering similar issues as well. We have to be strong as the body of Christ in not giving into false teaching.
Leaving my church after 38 years. It makes me sad that I have to leave and not those trying to change the Word.
Thank you for sharing this heartbreaking news. Don’t underestimate the power of one person standing for Christ. Because the traditionalist were not there to stand, no one was willing to stand on God’s Word.
😢 The Methodist church is no longer a Christian organization.
To be a Christian you have to side with Jesus. If not then you are not a Christian. There are no gray areas.
What did Jesus say about homosexuality?
Jesus never mentioned homosexuality.
Jesus said that the two most important commands are to love God and to love your neighbor as yourself. I believe that acknowledging LGBTQ people's lives are just as valid as straight people's lives is part of obeying the second command.
Greetings from a Catholic fellow-Christian! As you are peobably aware, the same trend has begun in my Church and will probably lead to an open schism (since officially "leaving" is impossible) which will be blamed on conservative, Bible-believing and tradition-oriented Catholics.
Yeah! That's it, my fellow brother! Or let us to see if I can be understandable, once I'm not even an English speaking native: While I'm generally happy when someone converts to our faith, on the other hand I always have my serious doubt when I read things on the likes of "Let us to come to the one Holly Catholic Faith, the one founded by Christ 2000 years ago, and the one whose unchangeable dogmas are the best ones of them all that will comfort and conform us to the Eternity!"... Huh? They want to convert because we don't have our challenges? SHAME ON THEM!... If only all those pedos that were permitted in our high altars were not suffix for our Church to have a huge problem sad enough for us to have some 50+ bad years in front of us, I don't know what else could have been? And have we dealt with it properly? Sorry!... We don't need to import the other's problems. Please deal with them properly.
Consequently permit me finally a note to our fellow Christians now going out of the UMC? Do you want to come for the RCC for a wonderful faith experience? Great! We're here to support you!... Now: Do you want to come because your Church has problems you can't admit nor help to solve? SHAME ON YOU!... Please make us a favor: Fight within your ranks or shop elsewhere! We aren't here to support those whom are just malcontents elsewhere. We want adult Christians!...
At 33 years of age I just left the Catholic Church - which I was raised in my entire life - & was baptized into the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I thank God for his guidance.
@Cincy32 You were not in the Catholic Church but the Vatican II sect. You've now completely aposatized from Christ. In charity, you need to repent and convert.
@@j.knight9335 The Catholic Church allows abortionists to receive the Eucharist - such as Joe Biden. They are the ones who have turned their backs on Christ.
We are living the last book of the Bible.
Mennonite church USA is going through a similar event, although not quite to this magnitude. It may be difficult to find details, but it might be worth looking into for future videos.
Another informative video, thanks Joshua!
I don’t understand the obsession with homosexuality. It never keeps me up at night. Opening a “conservative” church is just making it political. I like politics out of my church. We’re supposed to love our neighbors. We ALL fall short of God’s glorious standard.
Please be aware that many congregations that would like to leave the UMC simply can' afford to pay the ransom to keep their real estate. I know of several such churches near me. It is really terrible when you realize that it was those congregations that paid for those churches to begin with, but the conference bishop holds their deeds.
Keep it and fight back from within.
That's why the provision was in place to allow churches to leave without needing to pay all of that. Besides, even now if you'd like to disaffiliate, you can vacate the building and move to a new one.
@@zacharyhenderson2902 Maybe in your conference, but not in mine. Each bishop makes his or her own rules. That's why we had to take it to the civil courts, UMC bishops have been ignoring rules made by General council for many years, That's how we got gay clergy and even a gay or lesbian bishop. We even have polygamist pastors in the UMC..
And that is both theft and abomination
So glad I left the UMC church in 2010! I found a home in the Catholic church and I hope all of you looking for a home consider it. It has the fullness of the faith as taught from Jesus to today.
We were privileged to meet Dr. Christopher Yuan in Woodstock, Virginia just two weeks ago, during a six hour seminar presented by him at Antioch Covenant Church. His message/theme: "Holy Sexuality" he, having been delivered from a lifestyle of hedonistic homosexuality. Together with Angela Yuan, his mother, he authored "Out Of A Far Country" and "Holy Sexuality And The Gospel." Both books are available online and wherever Christian books are sold and are used extensively in university curriculum studies. His message: LIFE CHANGING for all!
The UMC has sided with the world and will judged with the world. They need to REPENT. 💥
I hope they’re never forgiven.
In Summer 2023, I noticed that the local United Methodist Church had blacked-out the word "United" on it's sign.
Our church disaffiliated from the United Methodist! Praise Jesus!