Why I left the UMC & how it went down
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- Опубликовано: 13 июн 2024
- Why I left The United Methodist denomination,
And the events leading up to my departure
0:00 Intro & Caveats
5:44 My history with the UMC
7:22 Why I left - the Big reasons
32:21 Division in my local church; how I got suspended; the fallout
1:09:44 How God was working in it all
As a former UMC pastor who also left, God bless you for your faithfulness.
Good to hear you are in a good place. My family and I were part of a church that left the UMC and became GMC. Unfortunately we never sensed settled in the GMC, but God led us into a vibrant church outside the Methodist family. We are blessed and looking forward to the coming days.
My church and I left the ELCA 20 years ago. I received a letter from my previous bishop telling me I was no longer allowed to wear a clerical collar or refer to myself as pastor in public.😂
Oh, that is rich. I run a group advocating more for separation from wayward church organizations. We are primarily a Lutheran group, but I sent them this video as it seems relevant even to Lutherans stuck in the ELCA.
Lol. ELCA is insane. I don’t blame anyone who’s left. I feel for the folks who are still fighting the good fight for the Gospel there. God bless them in that difficult fight.
Your ministry on RUclips has been a blessing to me. (Your channel and Plain Spoken has been a wealth of information and encouragement while my Church disaffiliated) I hope you will continue on with your teaching commenting on the church and the world.
Cont father Johnny white Ford an orthodox priest wx Nazarene minister I think you would like it when unstood
Thank you, Dan. I’ve been reared a Baptist. I married a Baptist minister. He retired to Christian radio.
He was privileged in later years to fill the pulpit of many rural UMC churches. I enjoyed these services and the dear people in these UMC churches. Thank you for your explanation for this former Baptist. I am puzzled that those who held to historical Methodist theology would be the ones to leave, rather than those who have embraced a new theology. I am saddened.
Thank you for your informative update,. We have been experiencing similar challenges in the Episcopal Church for some years. God Bless as you continue your ministry,
Thanks for a very concise, logical, and accurate description of the reasonable reasons why conservatives had no choice but to disaffiliate from UMC.
Brother this breaks my heart to see this amongst our fellow Christians.
I think the folks staying true to the Word of God and the rules & policies that exist within the UMC should absolutely leave. I appreciate your humble and gracious stance.
Praying for all those leaving. (And staying). But I also pray God will impress upon those inserting their ideology into their theology be corrected.
I understand. how you feel because I feel the same way. It is heartbreaking. I first attended a a Methodist church when I was 6 months old.1 accepted Christ and was baptized in a United Methodist church. I have been a member in 3 United Methodist churches. My church just disaffiliated from the UMC because we have a traditional view of Scripture and what a church should be. Being a Methodist for 65 years, this is new for us, and we trust God to lead us where He wants us to be. It is exciting and a little scary at the same time.
Thank you for sharing your wisdom and experience so graciously. If, at the end, you had announced your free agency, I planned to say that you'd make a wonderful Nazarene!
I will remember you, your family and your church in my prayers.
Your looking for a religious experience. I'm looking for a spiritual experience.
6:47 I found your insight and experience compelling and worth telling for the glory of Christ. I am a former umc member now a Baptist since 2011. I had been following the divide on and off since late 90s. Both you and Jeffrey R. are giving a much needed voice to Bible believing Christ followers who are Methodist.
Daniel, thank you for your example. You did a wonderful job of maintaining your integrity and graciousness in the face of unrighteous behavior. Like Joseph, your brothers meant you harm, but God meant it for good.
Wow! That's a lot of traumatic experience! Especially, the part where people you served threw you right under the bus! I don't know you from Adam, but I'm sorry about this struggle in your life. I grew up in a little UMC church in VA, and I'm currently "unchurched" in Minnesota. (The land of 10000 Lutherans, which is an option I'm thinking about.) I'm also researching Orthodoxy. I'm going through a personal struggle with both Calvinism and Complementarianism right now. (towards the negative on both fronts- but I'm trying to learn and keep an open mind)
I found your channel by searching for videos on the UMC split and watched your original video. I will continue to follow your channel, as always]
@@bobjenkins3rd I agree!
I sympathize with you and applaud you for standing firm even though you spent your life in the UMC. I was raised as a 3rd generation SDA, and was educated in their schools, where I had many friends. I studied my way out of this in my 30s and left. So, I understand a little how you feel. John Wesley and Francis Asbury mean a lot to me and were helpful on my journey. I wish you the best in your new journey. I have considered them myself. Currently attend a Lutheran Church.
Just curious, what resources did you study as you left SDA.
@@raymondmcinturff3952 Very long story and all happened before the advent of the internet. I was in a bookstore and picked up Kingdom of the Cults by Walter Martin, founder of the Christian Research Institute. Much of the appendix was about SDA. In it, he referred to an out of print book: The Truth about 7th Day Adventism. It took me over 2 years to find a copy of that book. Of course these led to other resources and caused me to re-evaluate what I had always been taught. I learned a lot and still am learning. I can give you many other resources if you care to give me your email address.
Pastor Hixon, I am a retired Baptist Pastor and can very much empathize with you. I certainly commend you for your Christian integrity and faithfulness. I believe it is quite obvious the Lord has honored you in this sad situation.
I watched your posts on the split while in discernment here in Houma and they were honestly done. Had no idea that you and your family were treated like Ted and Valerie Fine and Scott Bullock. So happy for all of you that God provided and you're doing well in Jena.
Once my wife and I saw the truth of what was going on in the UMC we got involved with like minded members of our former church and started a new church here that's now a new GMC plant. God bless you brother have a blessed Christmas.
Thanks for sharing your story. It seems that God is blessing you in many ways now. I'm grateful for that. I went through a similar situation with my denomination several years ago. Extremely difficult. But God is good. He is faithful and will see us through.
I finally finished watching. I reckon you had already gone through all of the bad experiences detailed here when I interviewed you a few months ago. Had I known you had this to offer, I would've tried to get some of these details out of you! As I watched, I wondered how many others have gone through experiences like you and me with incompetent and unscrupulous conference leadership, but who had kept quiet about it because of cowardice masked as prudence. I'm glad this experience has made you bolder. My experience of boldness/bravery is that it is like a muscle: if you don't use it, you can lose it. So I hope you continue to find opportunities for taking risks and opposing foes for Christ.
Thank you for taking the time and putting the energy into organizing your thoughts around this. Despite the length, I felt like this was a pretty succinct rendering of a very complex situation. I'm sure this will get many more views in the coming days and months. If your conscience is like mine, then you realize you had no choice but to do this. We can't make folks make the right decision, but they can't even make it if they are never warned. As teachers in the household of God, we are morally obligated to warn people, not just of their sins, but also of powers/principalities with which they align. One cannot shirk such a responsibility. You built a platform; I'm glad you've chosen to use it for the benefit of others in this way, among the many other ways you also use it for the good of others.
I like your setup. Nice and clean, tasteful. You look and sound good. Keep thinking on ways that you can generate content for the upbuilding of the church catholic. I have found that the format of preaching in a sanctuary just isn't appealing to folks. But if you earnestly speak to a camera in your office, lots of folks will listen so long as you don't look or sound bad. I reckon we'll talk more at a later date, but I just wanted to say here publicly my appreciation for you. Blessings to you and your family!
Yes, as a matter of fact I almost went in to all this in our conversation, but then got "side tracked" by some internet connection problem we were having; but I think it may have been just as well, since I was not really prepared to give a thought-out overview of the whole thing at that point.
Thank you for this video. I'm in the SC AC. Our church is discerning now and I (as lay leader) hosted a town hall yesterday. I wish I could have had you speak. You did a great job of articulating the big picture issues with the UMC.
I stuck with you the whole time. There's no church here to go to after leaving the UMC. MORE people would probably leave if they had somewhere to go. Thankyou for sharing. God bless you and your family and your congregation.
I am not a Methodist but a Presbyterian. Our church went through the same thing about 10 years ago about leaving the Presbyterian Church in the United States of America. Thank God we finally voted to leave the PCUSA to the Evangelical Presbyterian Church. It was a very sad process. Satan is really working hard to divide and destroy the Church. God bless you and stay strong in Christ.
Thanks for sharing honestly & openly your journey out of United Methodism, and the humility & respect towards colleagues with which you handled it. My experience here as an Elder in the WNC conference has been similar: removed from my congregation during the week following a failed 2/3 disaffiliation vote & moved toward the door. Dist/Conf leaders mishandling of it pushed members away instead of bringing them together after the vote. I pray for their future, and clarity of the Conference’s intentions for them going forward. Accepting there’s no longer a place for me (slightly right of center) was sad enough; even worse the total disregard of this family of faith as the Body of believers 😢
Thank you, Daniel.
Very well said.
I'm Catholic. I'll pray for you and your family!
I'm Baha'i. I'll pray for this very articulate man and his young family too!
Daniel, Thank you for standing firm to the Whole of Scripture. This video helped me understand how the crisis in the UMC impacted the local congregations. And how destructive the woke ideology has been to a once Christ centered denomination.
My prayers are for your ministry to continue to prosper.
A brother in Christ,
FrankB
God meets us in the struggle is great news!
Thank you for making this video. Our church in Pine Bluff, Arkansas disaffiliated. It was a mess. There were many hard feelings and still are. But we have a new freedom in Christ and feel very blessed that we were able to get out with a beautiful church building. We look forward to the future and what God will do.
Daniel, the goodness of God chases after you, as you (and your family) even as you endured the wrongs wrought against you by those in power. Your shared story helps to shine a light in the dark world of an institution hellbent on silencing and punishing you. And what was the result? Well, with God's help, you found a better place. May I dare say the vengeful actions of your annual conference probably resulted in many members -- who were otherwise on the fence or who were afraid to say anything or who turned an oblivious eye so they did not see-- to jump off the fence, to gain courage and to open their eyes -- and to ultimately vote with their feet.
Please consider becoming clergy with the GMC.
Very well said.
Thank you. I'm a Catholic married to a Methodist. Appreciate your thoughts on this.
Please stop calling yourselves "traditionalists." You are the Christians.
❤
You've mentioned that in the UMC there are traditionalist, evangelical, and Catholic methodist wings. Are you talking about high and low Methodists churches? Are there Wesleyan Arminian, Classical Arminian and Modern Arminian wings within the UMC? I read on the TGC website that Timothy Tenent is a classical arminian. Would you agree with that statement?
Great video! I am not Methodist but have many friends who are...God Bless you and your family. God is ever faithful!
Thanks for clarifying this complicated issue. At 10:34 my take on it is that the leadership has in effect began practicing a new denomination and gone about marginalising those not on board with the change. Seems to me that people who have a belief system in conflict with an existing denomination would have more clarity and integrity if they quit and established a new denomination based on their beliefs. As we know the Episcopal Church in the USA has already gone through this.
... as have the Presbyterian Church USA - My church SUCCESFULLY left with assets intact.
I can't imagine how difficult this whole thing has been for you. 😢
Your bishop was pretty nasty. Yikes. So sorry that this happened to you. Thank you for your faithfulness.
Beautifully articulated. Why have a discipline & covenant and ignore them? God bless
Here in Oklahoma, there was some acrimony involved in the disaffiliation process. In our little church, our LLP was stripped of his license and given 2 weeks to find somewhere else to live. That being said, I don't know what he may have done or said to the DS. Ultimately, we decided to stay UMC, but I feel that we may not stay that way if the Conference shifts to a more progressive stance. I'm glad you've been able to remain a pastor and I enjoy your video's on orthodox Christianity.
"if the Conference shifts to a more progressive stance" is still head in the sand. It is only a matter of time that the UMC leadership will push down its progressive views to the local churches. A leadership that takes a vow knowing full well they are already violating the BOD or intend to cannot be held in esteem and I will not fund them with my tithes. * Ever notice that the more progressive things become the more dangerous it is for children?
@@MrErpman Here's the thing, it hasn't yet. I know that could change any time, I'm not living in fear of it. As far as switching to the GMC....well, what I've seen of them doesn't sit well. The services I've seen have been more Pentacostal than Methodist.
@@dadboss3919 I understand. It will take a while for the GMC to really establish its "atmosphere" and will surely be more Pentecostal in the early stages but I believe it will moderate over time. A church leaving the UMC may be better served being independent for a while although that has some risk. Unfortunately, there are no easy answers.
Thank you for telling your story Daniel. My wife and I left the UMC and joined Asbury Church in Tulsa, OK. They disaffilated with a vote of 96%+. We are praying that they remain independent since we can see no benefit of joining the GMC. If they do affiliate affiliate with another Methodist denomination we will be looking for another independent church. These denominations tend to turn a church into a business and I don't feel that is God's plan.
Would love to know more about what an independent Methodist church is?
Some will say that "independent Methodist church" is a contradiction in terms, since Methodism is historically connectional in structure. In our case, we are historically Methodist/United Methodist and - having left the UMC - we continue to preach and teach Methodist/Wesleyan theology, use forms of liturgy and hymnody that are familiar to Methodists, but do not currently have a denominational connection. There is, however, an "Association of Independent Methodist Churches" (AIM) that is a very loose association or connection that some former UMC churches are joining as well to share resources for ministry and some accountability, without being fully "plugged into" a denomination, so I guess the question would be "how much connection counts as 'connectionalism'?"
Greetings from Germany! The LORD bless you and your family and refresh your spirits in HIm. Some of the things you experienced at the hands of people claiming to be Christians, even "bishops", testify clearly, in my mind, to the work of a controlling, manipulative and malignant spirit - and we know his name. The only response is: “‘Come out of her, my people,’ so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues; for her sins are piled up to heaven, and God has remembered her crimes". God was, and is, on His throne and will bring all hidden things to light one day. His judgment will be perfect. The British Methodist Church will be in the dustbin of history by the middle of this century; the German Methodist Church won't need that much time to "disappear itself". The UMC may need longer, but current leaders have signed its death sentence, that is surely clear to all. Many of these trends were already visible in the nineteenth century when classes and bands - the basic, irreplaceable building blocks of Methodism - were quietly abandoned and Masonic pastors started to take control. The Free Methodists pointed this out and - were kicked out. Be grateful, brother, that God used despicable individuals to kick you out!.
I grew up in the Methodist church was baptized, confirmed and married in the church and all of my kids were baptized in the Methodist church but I left it in 2008 after years of spiritual decline. In retrospect, this decline started in the 1960's. I read an article that said that only 44% of seminarians believed in the resurrection in the 1960's. That may explain why it has been a long time since I felt the Holy Spirit in a UMC church. The decline accelerated with the ordination of female clergy: "I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet." The scriptures have been so watered down that, under the UMC's currently theology, there is no longer any Good News and no longer any need for Christ. I am now at a small congregation that preaches the entire bible, not just the last 1/4: "Think not that I have come to abolish the Law". It is the most bible literate, obedient and cohesive congregation of which I have been a member and I feel the Holy Spirit in that congregation!
Keeping Torah??
@@taylormills9206
Yes brother, there were 613 mitvot in Torah prior to Yeshua (Jesus) and the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD by the Romans. There are approximately 300 mitzvot that are still relevant today with Yeshua as our high priest and blood sacrifice and since the Temple no longer exists. The Temple was the only place animal sacrifices could be performed and where the Levites operated.
A silver lining of the decline of my former chuch, the UMC, is that it led me on the journey to begin following Torah and the Living Torah (Yeshua), which has been one of the greatest joys of my life. I would be glad to discuss further if you have any questions.
The following passages provide the scriptural basis for Jewish AND Gentile followers of Yeshua to follow the mitzvot that are still in effect in Torah after the death and resurrection of Yeshua and the destruction of the Temple. The passages clearly demonstrate the Jewish followers of Yeshua should follow Torah. An argument could be made, however, that Gentile followers of Yeshua do not need to follow Torah but Paul addresses that argument in Romans 2:12-16 and Romans 3:29-31
Deuteronomy 30:11-19
11 Now what I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you or beyond your reach. 12 It is not up in heaven, so that you have to ask, “Who will ascend into heaven to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?” 13 Nor is it beyond the sea, so that you have to ask, “Who will cross the sea to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?” 14 No, the word is very near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart so you may obey it.
15 See, I set before you today life and prosperity, death and destruction. 16 For I command you today to love the Lord your God, to walk in obedience to him, and to keep his commands, decrees and laws; then you will live and increase, and the Lord your God will bless you in the land you are entering to possess.
17 But if your heart turns away and you are not obedient, and if you are drawn away to bow down to other gods and worship them, 18 I declare to you this day that you will certainly be destroyed. You will not live long in the land you are crossing the Jordan to enter and possess.
19 This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live 20 and that you may love the Lord your God, listen to his voice, and hold fast to him. For the Lord is your life, and he will give you many years in the land he swore to give to your fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
Psalms 94:12 NLT
Joyful are those you discipline, Lord, those you teach with your instructions.
Jeremiah 31:33 NLT
33 “But this is the new covenant I will make with the people of Israel after those days,” says the Lord. “I will put my instructions deep within them, and I will write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.
Matthew 5:17-20 NLT
17 “Don’t misunderstand why I have come. I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No, I came to accomplish their purpose.
18 I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not even the smallest detail of God’s law will disappear until its purpose is achieved. 19 So if you ignore the least commandment and teach others to do the same, you will be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven. But anyone who obeys God’s laws and teaches them will be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven.
20 “But I warn you-unless your righteousness is better than the righteousness of the teachers of religious law and the Pharisees, you will never enter the Kingdom of Heaven!
Matthew 7:6-8 NLT
6 Jesus replied, “You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you, for he wrote,
‘These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.
7 Their worship is a farce,
for they teach man-made ideas as commands from God.’[d]
8 For you ignore God’s law and substitute your own tradition.”
Mark 7:1-13 NLT
One day some Pharisees and teachers of religious law arrived from Jerusalem to see Jesus. 2 They noticed that some of his disciples failed to follow the Jewish ritual of hand washing before eating. 3 (The Jews, especially the Pharisees, do not eat until they have poured water over their cupped hands,[a] as required by their ancient traditions. 4 Similarly, they don’t eat anything from the market until they immerse their hands[b] in water. This is but one of many traditions they have clung to-such as their ceremonial washing of cups, pitchers, and kettles.[c])
5 So the Pharisees and teachers of religious law asked him, “Why don’t your disciples follow our age-old tradition? They eat without first performing the hand-washing ceremony.”
6 Jesus replied, “You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you, for he wrote,
‘These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.
7 Their worship is a farce,
for they teach man-made ideas as commands from God.’[d]
8 For you ignore God’s law and substitute your own tradition.”
9 Then he said, “You skillfully sidestep God’s law in order to hold on to your own tradition. 10 For instance, Moses gave you this law from God: ‘Honor your father and mother,’[e] and ‘Anyone who speaks disrespectfully of father or mother must be put to death.’[f] 11 But you say it is all right for people to say to their parents, ‘Sorry, I can’t help you. For I have vowed to give to God what I would have given to you.’[g] 12 In this way, you let them disregard their needy parents. 13 And so you cancel the word of God in order to hand down your own tradition. And this is only one example among many others.”
Luke 16:16-17 NLT
16 “Until John the Baptist, the law of Moses and the messages of the prophets were your guides. But now the Good News of the Kingdom of God is preached, and everyone is eager to get in.[d] 17 But that doesn’t mean that the law has lost its force. It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the smallest point of God’s law to be overturned.
John 14:15 NLT
15 “If you love me, obey my commandments.
Acts 24:14
14 “But I admit that I follow the Way, which they call a cult. I worship the God of our ancestors, and I firmly believe the Jewish law and everything written in the prophets.
Romans 2:12-16 NLT
12 When the Gentiles sin, they will be destroyed, even though they never had God’s written law. And the Jews, who do have God’s law, will be judged by that law when they fail to obey it. 13 For merely listening to the law doesn’t make us right with God. It is obeying the law that makes us right in his sight. 14 Even Gentiles, who do not have God’s written law, show that they know his law when they instinctively obey it, even without having heard it. 15 They demonstrate that God’s law is written in their hearts, for their own conscience and thoughts either accuse them or tell them they are doing right. 16 And this is the message I proclaim-that the day is coming when God, through Christ Jesus, will judge everyone’s secret life.
Romans 3:29-31 NLT
29 After all, is God the God of the Jews only? Isn’t he also the God of the Gentiles? Of course he is. 30 There is only one God, and he makes people right with himself only by faith, whether they are Jews or Gentiles.[j] 31 Well then, if we emphasize faith, does this mean that we can forget about the law? Of course not! In fact, only when we have faith do we truly fulfill the law.
Romans 7:7-13 NLT
7 Well then, am I suggesting that the law of God is sinful? Of course not! In fact, it was the law that showed me my sin. I would never have known that coveting is wrong if the law had not said, “You must not covet.”[a] 8 But sin used this command to arouse all kinds of covetous desires within me! If there were no law, sin would not have that power. 9 At one time I lived without understanding the law. But when I learned the command not to covet, for instance, the power of sin came to life, 10 and I died. So I discovered that the law’s commands, which were supposed to bring life, brought spiritual death instead. 11 Sin took advantage of those commands and deceived me; it used the commands to kill me. 12 But still, the law itself is holy, and its commands are holy and right and good.
13 But how can that be? Did the law, which is good, cause my death? Of course not! Sin used what was good to bring about my condemnation to death. So we can see how terrible sin really is. It uses God’s good commands for its own evil purposes.
Romans 15:4 NLT
Such things were written in the Scriptures long ago to teach us. And the Scriptures give us hope and encouragement as we wait patiently for God’s promises to be fulfilled.
Hebrews 8:10 NLT
But this is the new covenant I will make with the people of Israel on that day,[c] says the Lord: I will put my laws in their minds, and I will write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.
Blessings
The Church is the Traditional Latin Mass. Martin Luther was a revolutionary who split the church. And more recent another attack on the Church was the communist hippy movement in the 1960s.
And Vatican ll was another attack but from within. All that is happening is by design.
And read the book on the changes of Vatican l to Vatican ll "Lex Orandi" by Daniel Graham
The decline started just prior to the affiliation into the UMC in 1964. Tyrannical power and Uber liberalism was planted and here is what you wind up with. Just like our liberal dominated government.
I am the same, I have been visiting FUMC churches around Arizona. Once I see a female Pastor, I don't return, search goes on.. so far I am still trying to find a Traditional Methodist church
Thank you for fighting for The Purity of THE WORD & The Authority of The Bible
Well done.
Philippians 1:9-11.
My granny grew up methodist and she said it was took over by the communists in the 1960s. I also was Methodist until about 1st grade I’m very happy the church I used to go to seceded from the United Methodist
Biggest thing to hit me in Listening to this: ‘You have the right to remain Silent. Everything you say can and will be held against you.’ And you are brought into a meeting - ‘as a sheep to slaughter’! - for that precise purpose; with no legal counsel!
And they wonder why churches are emptying out.
Glad you got this off your heart. It needed to be shared and the very un-Christian behavior of the UMC leadership exposed. You are in a far better place now and can be proud of and trust your constituents.
I worked with students in Ukraine and Romania and Russia who were truly afraid to attend Evangelical Churches because Orthodox Religion was so tightly controlled by the state. This is beginning to have the same socialist leaning. You were very brave! (I am a member of UMC who no longer wishes to be associated.)
Daniel, first let me say I have enjoyed watching many of your previous videos and found them very informative. I hope you keep them up.
It sounds like you were treated very poorly by your UMC Conference. Unfortunately this schism has brought out the worst in some people on both sides.
That being said, my personal decision was to stay with the UMC even to the point of moving my membership to another UMC a half hour away when my local church chose to disaffiliate. I hadn't been attending there since Covid, but was considering going back before disaffiliation came up. I could see the writing on the wall, but thought at least I would go for the vote. I was waiting for a letter about the vote, but none came. Finally I found out they had already announced and held the vote after church one Sunday.
I began happily attending my present UMC and when I inquired at the former church about transferring my membership before their disaffiliation was final I found out the membership record book had disappeared, but then mysteriously reappeared later that day after I expressed my unhappiness!
Glad to have you in the conversation; you are certainly right that folks on all "sides" have behaved badly from place to place. It is sad to see hardening hearts and the "grasping spirit" among folks who believe the in the things and the God we profess in the ancient Creeds: over-abundant and far more than all we could possibly ask or imagine, forever and ever. We need not be "grasping," but trusting.
I see my departure from my former UMC, now disaffiliated, as a blessing from God, precipitated by this schism. My new pastor at the UMC where I'm now a member advised me to "Just let it go." For the most part I have, but I was a part of that church, off and on at least, for over 50 years. It was difficult to leave without some regret. I'm trying hard that it not be bitter regret.
The new church is larger and a lot more "high church" Methodist, at least at the service I attend, as opposed to the previous church that has dwindled in number over time and whose services have degenerated into a happy-clappy hymn sandwich garnished with praise choruses, which I tolerated while hoping for better. I can't fault people for their worship style if it is sincere, and I admit my own bias, but sometimes I wonder if many "contemporary" worship services sacrifice substance for entertainment value. I might be guilty of formalism, but there is something lacking when you can't recall the last time the Creed was recited and the Great Thanksgiving is replaced with "It is time for Communion." Worship should be joyful without being sloppy. Lex orandi, lex credendi.
Sorry if this sounds like a long-winded rant. It probably is, but it sure feels good to get it out.
@@jeffreyulrich3592CS Lewis and JRR Tolkien both, in different places, try to describe a celebration that is both solemn, beautiful, and joyous all at the same time. That is what I hope our liturgical celebrations will be, whatever music is included - but definitely for Christians we should not neglect the Creed or the Great Thanksgiving or the Lord's Prayer on Sundays.
Book of Discipline, Social Principles, John Wesley, etc, etc… None if these are inspired Scripture, but they seem to garner the focus of United Methodists. What do we think would eventually happen to the UMC given its love of other authorities outside of the one authority they should have based their denomination?
Also, what did UMC leaders think would happen when they flout their disobedience to God’s Word in regard to female pastors? None of what is happening surprises me and it shouldn’t surprise any Spirit-filled Christian either.
Every denomination, Baptists, etc has their own governance principles. The UMC documents you poo-pooed were an attempt to base the Methodist movement on the Bible. They were not created out of thin air.
Feminism is of the devil! Prove me wrong.
I agree with you.
My church in South Carolina has disaffiliated with the UMC.
Daniel, thanks for sharing your story. The way you were treated as a new father and pastor was brutal and cruel.
Thanks for your ministry on RUclips.
Ironic enough I came across your content from a Stay UMC friend who was using your content because they thought it was very fair.
I left the UMC because I was going to either accept a different interpretation of the Bible that I didn't agree with, or find a church that did not ignore scripture that is very clear or simply ignore it because it doesn't fit their narrative. I attended a Catholic churches for a year and went through RCIA. I was confirmed a year after I made my decision on Easter Sunday. I have never been happier!
Church is business. The business has to change with the consumption of the consumers.
Continue your walk with The Lord in an independent fundamental baptist church. Not all of us are bad. And we have great potlucks.
I believe that we are called to follow Christ. End of that story. We can form Churches but we must follow his teachings if we are to be called Christians.
Shake the dust from your feet. I left this apostate church after 25 years. I’m Presbyterian PCA.
Sin righteousness + Church righteousness = Denominational mercy
I am not Methodist, but I am Christian. If they won't obey the Bible, what makes you think they will obey the Book of Disipline?
Why do you wear a Roman collar ?
It is worn by all Methodist clergy - but the Catholic and Episcopal priests wear them more often
I know Roman Catholics like to call it a "Roman Collar", but my understanding is that the tab collar I am wearing was designed by a Presbyterian. If you go back to the 1800s, you will see that the precursor to the modern collar is worn by many Protestant clergy - Anglican, Presbyterian, Methodist, even Baptist. I think there is great value - especially in our increasingly "visual" and "icon-using" culture - in wearing a "uniform" or visible expression of my Christian and clergy commitment. Now, I don't wear it all the time - but usually on Sundays and when visiting hospitals or teaching in any 'official' capacity. In practice, it has opened up opportunities for me to pray with strangers in public settings - like hospitals or fast food restaurants - in a way that would not have happened if I were wearing "street clothes."
I never thought about that a collar can open the door to ministry.
I am put off by that special type of clothing for clergy.
Í do not think Peter, John and James or Paul wear cervical clothes?
Only the high priest was to wear special clothes for the service he rendered to God for Israel. Representing Jesus in His ministry.
Roman Catholicism through the ages used special clothes to identify clergy. Then Luther used a robe.Later pentecostal and other evangelical preachers/ evangelist used normal attire.
I wonder is my attitude toward special clothes for clergy rooted in wrong thinking, wrong attitude?
@@heidibrown997 Thanks for responding. I think that man-made denominations like Methodists copied the design from Roman Catholics.
Those not adhering to the book of disapline keeping and controling the church whilst keeping to the BOD forced out.
I appreciate your sharing the facts of your journey. I am "Methodist by marriage", so I know little about governance. What I have been disappointed about is how little the Gospel is preached in my local church. In 19 years, I don't recall ever hearing the word "abortion" mentioned. The only sin I recall ever hearing mentioned is racism, and a series was preached on that. A Lesbian came in and taught several sessions on "human sexuality", supposedly in preparation for the upcoming division of the church. A homosexual couple has been appointed to guide the singles ministry. In essence, when I joined the church, I could barely support it, having grown up with more traditional values - and now I find myself embarrassed to be affiliated with it, but on a much deeper level, I feel that it is affecting my family. Does one expect their spouse to leave the church they grew up in, or do they compromise their beliefs and support a church that really does seem to disregard the Bible and the Gospel?
Leave
What Would Jesus Do is the question, not what any individual would do.
You should be a fly on the wall in the umc church office I work at. They laugh and talk about how they are within the book of discipline, and they will allow the ones that left come back when you agree with them.
Whenever a denomination stray away from the Scripture being Inspired, Infallible, and Inerrant you start diminishing and watering down the Holy Text resulting in loose interpretations. If the Bible is allegorical when it pertains to the origins of creation and/or the supernatural then the battle is already lost. One key indicator of a denomination straying away is the dismissal of 1 Timothy 3, Titus 1 and 1 Peter 5 which prescriptively outlines the church eldership being male only. When you deny this and wave off this command as “cultural” in nature (although the Apostle Paul’s argumentation is rooted in the principles established in the garden of Eden) then you are undermining the authority of Scripture. Furthermore, if you meet every 4 years to consider any revisions of your confession/ Articles of Faith then you are more susceptible to blow with the winds of culture and being influenced by that. I find that confessional reformed denominations are not only doctrinally sound but have stood the test of time and has not change their confession since the 17th Century. Thus I would recommend Christians to fellowship with churches who adhere to the Westminster confession or the 1689 London Baptist Confession. I believe other Holiness traditions will eventually follow suit with that of the UMC. Nothing can ever be written in stone with such denominations practicing the same revisionist practices with their regulations such as church discipline, articles of faith, and historical teachings.
I am still member of the UMC , i am just agree with the Immersion Baptism, not baby at all, does the Global Methodist Church baptism babies?
Good to have a faithful Protestant pastor in Jena!
I think “went down” was a poor choice of words in this case!🤣🤣
A lot of words, but very little info.
I'd be less concerned about what Wesley taught regarding sin and far more concerned about what Jesus taught on sin.
I find Methodists, Presbyterians and Lutherans to be very similar to Mormons and how they view Joseph Smith.
Your church should have put the word first.
What an uncharitable and ridiculous statement. All denominations have their foundational statements or statements of belief which guide their reading of scripture. I absolutely guarantee that is the case with your own church.
So you are GMC-you are wearing your collar
Hello; thanks for the comment. Yes, I've been wearing a collar for years as a UMC pastor. I am not a member of the GMC. I think they are doing good work, but I am pursuing ordination in the Anglican Church in North America. I've got a video coming soon with details and a bit of my thinking on that.
So which Christian churches actually teach the Bible? Christ as Savior? Etc etc?
Most evangelical churches (non-denominational, Baptist, Assembly of God, Pentecostal, etc.) will teach the Bible with great conviction, and I've grown alot through the ministry of such churches. The main drawback there is that they often teach the Bible disconnected from the wisdom and insights of the whole universal church across the last 2000 years, so this can create some "blind spots" (especially around things like the creeds, the sacraments, and spiritual life). Historic "mainline" Protestant churches (United Methodist, ELCA-Lutheran, Episcopalian, PCUSA-Presbyterian) have historically done a better job in that department, but these are all now significantly infected by revisionist theology (you can find good churches/pastors in all of those groups, but you will also find those that deny Christ's divinity, or his resurrection or miracles, etc). The same thing is apparently becoming a problem in (at least some circles of) Roman Catholicism, which also has some other problems with its hierarchy. Your our best bet is more traditional historic Protestant groups: Global Methodist Church instead of the UMC; a Confessional Lutheran group instead of the ELCA; the Anglican Church in North America instead of the Episcopal Church; a confessional Presbyterian church instead of the PCUSA. These churches will consistently teach Biblical, creedal, evangelistic, and historically-rooted Christianity that our ancestors would recognize. For my part (as you'll see in a future video) I am soon to be ordained in The Anglican Church in North America.
Thank you Pastor for your information I stopped attending church quite a few years ago I read my Bible my devotionals and practice my spiritual faith and remain my covenant with God.But I was a Sunday school teacher for years but I couldn’t attend a church or teach for a church that didn’t follow the word of our Lord or and the Bible. God bless you and your family 2024 new year new start
Presbyterian PCA
They never deserved you. Also, all these women in positions of authority is the problem.
Nothing like being DOUBLE TEAMED. A witch hunt for sure.
Just leave if you want to change God's rules? If we justify homosexuality, then gossip, adultery, drunkenness, stealing, slander, or swindlers should also be justified.
1 Corinthians 6:9-11-Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
Hey, Don't get mad at me. I didn't write the book, I just read it.
For crying out loud! Get back to preaching the true Gospel of Jesus Christ. Stand firm.
Can't it just be,
are you following Christ of the scriptures or aren't you? Is it human desires or GODLY desires people want to follow??
No one in Egypt shares the religion of the Pharos or people who built the pyramids, Egypt is a mostly Muslim country today. So why don't they demolish them? Because humans value beauty, history, and it's part of their cultural identity, (and a huge tourist draw). It's the same with Europeans and our millennia old cathedrals. I guess it's hard to understand when your country only goes back 240 years.
The UMC treated you badly. I have found that UMC bishops often lack ethics and integrity. Your lack of rancor speaks to the reality and sincerity of your faith in Christ. Also, you make a lot of sense.
The Baptists are next In Indianapolis. Hide and watch
Shake off the dust from your feet and walk away.
They set you up and stabbed you in the back. Pretty obvious. Shows their lack of moral character.
I wish you had not started out first 15!min of your video making excuses for those who stay or have a different opinion of the matter ! Since you left I am on your team ! Stop 🛑! Just speak the truth of the Bible ! You know where those that chose against Gods word 😢will lose! Sir preach Gods word ! Thanks 🙏
I can understand what you are saying! I left the Catholic church due to the heavy handed protection for their Freemason Jesuit Priests practicing homosexual activities with boys ! Other Catholics are more accepting to such activities but I was not.
Please stop smacking ur lips!!!😂
Too wordy. Too many caveats and excursions. Get to the point. I signed off after a few minutes.
In a reductionist culture that tries to express so many big things in 140 characters or less, when dialogue is reduced to slogans, I think there is actually great virtue in sounding out some of the nuances and ambiguities because life is complicated. But at the same time, I understand why the length of this video in particular is a bit daunting. If I had filmed it a couple of more times, or spent a few hours editing it, I probably could have gotten a bit shorter but, as someone once said, "I didn't have time to be brief"
@@danielhixon8209 It's not that the video length is daunting, it's that you came out with the same trite, debunked, intellectually dishonest arguments. that most American preachers do, and I can't be bothered to listen to the same fallacious arguments yet again for over and hour.
No one in Egypt shares the religion of the people who built the pyramids, but they're not going to knock them down because of that, despite being a Muslim country, because it's part of their cultural identity and heritage. They're proud of them.
Europe is not the US and we have a very different relationship to religion, the majority of us are atheists, but if someone proposed burning down the cathedrals we'd say no, like the Egyptians, they're works of art, living museums sitting in our cities free for everyone to look at and go inside and take photographs.
UMC followed themselves not Christ. They chose the world over scripture, so is it any surprise that they are acting in a spiteful un-Christlike way.
Who cares.