Hello from West Virginia. I so appreciate your ministry and all you are doing. Praying for you and your ministry and for the world. Please continue to pray for the churches who are still being held captive by the UMC❤🙏
i just volunteered with samiritans purse and was excited to share my experience with my umc members they were dismayed Inwould wotlrk in a billy graham program .thats my sign i am out of umc!!!
@@reapthewhirlwind4166 well think about it this way; if someone pokes u in the ...um...arm....now do u get it? yt wont allow the real word so one must make one UP for it eh! so DONT reply on this thread with the veeee word....
God's heart breaks for what breaks ours. All of this sin sickness is breaking my heart. I have two prodigal sons who have completely walked away from the faith we raised them to follow and live. The want nothing to do with church any longer. All I can do is pray for them. They won't even speak to us any more. Please pray for my fractured family. I have two grandchildren. Our son and his wife won't allow us to see them. Their mother says she doesn't want them exposed to "proselytizers" I have never forced my faith on anyone. It's a personal decision to follow christ. But if I choose not to live like a disciple of hell, and my son and wife consider that proselytizing, there is nothing i can do. I am not turning my back on my Wesleyan faith.
Faith comes before family. Rather, faith gives us a new family. I'm sorry for the brokenness in your biological family. I have five children. It is my worst fear that they should live outside of faithful covenant relationship with Christ. I pray for your children's repentance. In the meantime, stay strong. Your sensibilities about the level of conversion required before one is acknowledged by the church are, I believe, right. Cheap grace is a great threat to true faith. I'm glad you have a home in a solid Wesleyan church.
I am conservative I left the PC USA several decades ago. My parents stayed and the wokeness really went off the rails in 2020 after the BLM riots. They were members of the denomination until they passed away.
I heard one pastor speaking at a UMC meeting telling the congregation about General Conference. During the question and answer session a member asked the scripture that talks about homosexuality. He said that the language changed in 1946 that the Greek word used did not mean homosexuality. I googled and found what he was referring to. I just can’t wrap my head around this. I believe that practicing homosexuality and other sexual acts outside of marriage between a man and a woman is sin. Thank you for your ministry!
Yeah that's a really disingenuous thing people say. It is frustrating to know what to do with people who think that is a valid point. There is nothing new under the sun. The bible speaks pretty clearly to this issue, in particular. I'm glad you appreciate my ministry!
@@plainspokenpod Leftists are Neo-Marxists. Marxists are liars. i thought they were dying out with the Soviet Union, I was wrong. I was a counterintelligence Special Agent during the Cold War before I became a UMC pastor. I failed in that as well as in trying to call my church back to Wesley and the Scriptures. They serve the Master of Lies and they are faithful disciples. We need to stop expecting them to have ethics. They don't. Although most of these people are probably what the Communists call "useful idiots." But they could not have killed 100 million people without the help of "useful idiots." You keep using fascist where you mean Communist. I won't try to teach you about Fascism, people have lied about that -ism so much sorting it out requires a dissertation worth of work. Both Fascism and Communism were socialist but Romanian, Spanish, and Italian Fascism were grounded in their Catholicism and friendly to it (the "Iron Guard" of Romania was called the Order of Saint Michael the Archangel and Mussolini originally supported both the crown and the church of Rome. I'm not saying they were faithful followers of Christ but you really need to stop conflating the internationalist globalist Leftism of Communists with the ultra-nationalist socialism of the Fascists. Unfortunately, Edward Bernays and his disciples were so effective in their Nazi propaganda most people will never have a clue what fascists really believed. I studied World War II most of my life and only in the last ten years have I discovered the extent to which my "history" is actually propaganda. My efforts to sort that out has led me to read a lot of Nazi training materials and far too much Hitler. I was shocked...shocked...by how much Hitler talked about "the Living God" and Providence. THAT is perhaps more of a cautionary tale than the myth that he was an unfeeling monster. He loved dogs and children and Germans and killed six million jews. Stalin/Marxist ideas killed 100 million, but our educational elite continue to excuse Communists - the New York Times even concealed the deaths of six million Ukrainians in the 1920s. For some unholy reason we have always seemed to love communists and blame fascists. Hitler got his wonderful Concentration Camp idea from the Soviets, yet the Soviets presided along with us in the Nurenburg trials. Fascist does NOT equal Communist, but they are BOTH Democratic Socialists. Now all those who don't really know can line up and attack me. I'm used to it. I didn't keep my mouth shut in the UMC either. Truth is worth defending even if it is unpopular.
Christ requires that we judge with right judgment. If you think the only one you're responsible for is yourself, you're going to be very dismayed later.
Hello I'm from NC. Was involved not a member of a UMC for three years prior to the pandemic. Grew very depressed about what I was seeing in the UMC. From 2016-2019, I saw a lax attitude toward sin in general. I saw crackhead junkie mothers who did not show any sign of transformation, getting baptized. I saw a known drug dealer and his wife take Holy communion and both got baptized. Once these people were baptized, I never saw them in church again. The drug dealer and his wife were arrested for selling heroin, and murder when a pregnant girl overdosed in a hotel room. Their 6 kids were placed into foster care when they went to prison. The junkie girl that was baptized was also pregnant. she gave birth to a blind, half dead baby that ended up in foster care. It was literally making me sick. I felt like the church, the preacher (who I was in music ministry with) was making a mockery out of communion and baptism. It was like, if it feels good do it, anything is allowed and they were throwing that phrase Rethink Church all over the place. When the churches locked down during the pandemic, our local UMCs remained closed for 2.5 years when all the other churches remained open. That's when I made my exit. I started attending a Wesleyan church plant in my county where my son serves on the praise/worship/production team. I never left. The Wesleyan Church brought me out of the depression I was battling in the UMC and the pandemic. Looking back, I think the reason the churches remained closed for that long was because they were engaged in back door dealings trying to grab property, power, and political panhandling to get ready for the church split we see now. I appreciate what you are saying about the LGBTQ controversy and what it is doing to people's souls and minds. I really believed, and I am a retired nurse, not a conspiracy theorist, that we are going to see a mutation in the HIV in the future that will be resistant to treatment. I do not trust these new commericals for drugs that allow a patient to be "undetectable." There is something wrong with those words. I am not comfortable. yesterday I saw back to back ads for two of those drugs. We are being brainwashed by those ads. It's subliminal advertising. I believe undetectable does NOT mean virus free. It's going to encourage gay men and bisexuals to have unprotected sex. Even tthe Red Cross has quit asking about HIV status for blood donations. we are on the edge of a pharmacology cliff and like the story in the Bible, Jesus commanded the demons to leave and the pigs ran over a cliff to their death. I don't know, maybe I'm the only one who believes this, but I trust my instincts.
Thank you , Jeffrey, for having the courage to address this thorny issue. In my opinion, the failure to address this properly in many churches in the past, is the reason we’re now having to deal with it. I personally don’t think it a mystery on why up until recently, here in the West, we didn’t face much hostility from our surrounding culture. Our past supportive culture was the result of the merger of church and state back in 313 AD with the Edict of Milan. Western culture and Christendom are practically synonymous. What concerns me now is the fact that the Institutional Church was a product of that merger as well, and now with the decline of Western civilization and Christendom, many churches seem to be oblivious the the fact that we’ve experienced a serious paradigm shift, and now will face a culture hostile towards Biblical Christianity. The way the progressive church is handling it is to lower the bar, to accommodate the spirit of the age. The orthodox/traditional church, I feel may not be adequately prepared to face what is sure to come. I believe that your type of programming is a step in right direction.
To a degree, this has already transpired several times over in different western contexts. French Revolution comes to mind, but there have also been times of serious spiritual and moral decline in the American church before, followed by revival of one sort or another. I think there is power in recognizing that there is nothing new under the sun. But I only sort of believe that. I think modern technology radically shifts the bounds of play. Previous societies had certain natural constraints that we seem to have significantly pushed back, though not yet eliminated. Anyway, thanks for the affirmations. I hope I come to be part of the solution and not the problem...
Most of the UMC churches in my part of Michigan decided to stay in the apostate denomination. There were some votes but it's tough to get that 67% vote to leave. Now that it's 2024, the MICH Conference has closed the doors for allowing more local church dissafillations. For conservative people in the MI Conference it's time to leave, and find conservative bible believing congregations that will take us theologically conservative refugees in! What a sorrowful time for traditional Methodists in Mich. Almost makes me wish I lived in the south were the GMC is more numerous. 😢
I'm also in Michigan in Wayne County. The closest GMC church is almost an hour away. My UMC church will be closing soon, though the Pasture doesn't think so. Most of the active members are leaving since the 24 conference. I'll be gone soon. We couldn't afford to disaffiliate when we had a chance and our Pasture had a wait and see attitude. Finding a biblical conservative church in this area is hard. Most churches in my area may appear to be conservative but listening to their sermons on line I find they preach from old dead men and teach from different confessional or systematics.
@@Steven-et9hs same thing in Bay Area CA no GMCs. I went to a non denominational until a GMC is started. They have one GMC but it's too far for me to go to and culturally it's all tongan membership
@@gofish8181 The Calvary Chapel group of churches are a good conservative group of over 1,300 churches. Denomination was started in California, so there should be some in the bay area. I sure hope you find a church home soon.
@@Steven-et9hs TY.. I really enjoy skip Helzig .. probably not correct spelling.. I watch his videos and he is Calvary church in NM.I agree I like their breakdown of the Bible . I am starting to search for a match..
One church I served missed the vote to disaffiliate by 4 votes. The split was predictable since it followed the lines of disagreement I noticed (and fought) while I was there. The minority's victory was a pyrrhic victory since the majority never returned, so a congregation of just over 100 was reduced to 30 the next week. The church building and a small group is remaining in the UMC while the majority of the congregation now meets in another building as a GMC church. It is a profoundly sad ending to what was once a great church that averaged in the 140's and higher in the heyday of my time with them.
Yes, Mr. Turning did do a lot in WWII. The code-breaking project involved thousands of people. He was a critical person, but one of many. He alone did not break the code.
Former member PC(USA) here, but did attend UMC growing up. Spot on. Throughout 2022-23, I noted numerous times on IRD that conservative members of the UMC on the fence about leaving should understand that the opposition to your continued participation in the denomination will not end once the Book of Discipline is changed. The leadership at all levels of the PC(USA) since the Book of Order was changed in 2010 and 2014 have continued to demonize and misrepresent what the remaining conservative membership believe on nearly ever issue. It seems to have worsened under former Stated Clerk J. Herbert Nelson II, who was head of the Washington Office, immediately prior to being selected as the denomination's head, and the late Tim Keller once referred to the PC(USA) in one of his final articles wriiten in the fall of 2022 as part of "the religious arm of one of the two major political parties in the United States". Furthermore, while the PC(USA) officially has a polity of "diversity of thought", its leadership at numerous levels do not really believe it, when you look at what is put out. Again, at least as far back as Mr. Nelson's tenure, the denomination quit making any accomodating statements on any area where people should at least be able to find common agreement, because the far leftist activists running things wouldn't allow it, and either the moderates were in general agreement and thus chameleons, or had no spine to stand up to them. All that to say, a decade of continued pressure by these false Christians who have taken over, for I do not know what else to call them, has resulted in Overture 1 at this year's General Assembly which if passed, even as amended and in its broken up component parts, will more than likely result in no conservatives being ordained as ministers in liberal presbyteries, while in more liberal churches, there more than likely will not be any conservative deacons or elders, because the effect will be to disregard that polity. I honestly believe that if these activists could have their way, they would change the governance structure to give the presbyteries the level of power that UMC conferences have to unilaterally take over a local congregation that refuses to get with the program. I pray that conservatives who are able, leave as soon as they can, for we know thatbin some conferences, they were lied to, and no longer can, other than by simply walking away and leaving everything behind.
pure slander "those people want me to kill myself" - No. No we don't. We don't hate his daughter. And his letting that sit without correction is pure slander. It's hate. And it sure isn't loving your neighbor as yourself. Likely, she hasn't had any meaningful conversation with an actual theological conservative. Vile.
Apostasy continues just as a sin addict keeps picking up new addictions. Disorder breeds more disorder. If the roots are sick, the branches die and the trunk rots from the inside. Eventually insects find a home there and then it is reduced to compost. All churches borne of schism end that way. Don't be good, Jesus did not say to be good. Be Holy as His Father is.
Wondering if the pastor you quoted would be intellectually consistent. IF our culture is diminished by the loss of deceased LGBTQIA persons how much is our culture diminished by the loss of thousands (millions) of unborn children in general?
Well, tripping, slurring, whatever. The word 'fascism' literally comes from the 'fasces,' which was the symbol of a bunch of sticks that are all together, such that they aren't easily broken. There are a number of depictions of this at this article: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascist_symbolism
So the proper way to show the love of Christ is to allow people to remain in their sins? Jesus sent to sinners and told them to repent, go and din no more. He never left sinners in their sins by condoning the sins. The liberal position is filled with such flawed logic it makes your head spin. Stay strong brother, keep teaching the truth in love.
I don't know how one would answer that question. I'm not sure it matters. In group dynamics, the way things go don't really come down to majority rule or sentiment most of the time. Rather, it is a small group of motivated individuals. That is what has already happened in the UMC, a minority extreme group took control, grabbing the reins of power. Centrists and polite conservatives weren't able or willing to nip it in the bud. Firm conservatives were forced out. It'll happen again in the GMC if we don't work up proper defenses. If you do end up studying this question, I would be interested in how many UMs agree with a statement like "Traditional Christian teaching around sexuality has played a significant role in gay and trans suicide." I suspect over 75% would agree with such a statement.
I agree with you: that the notion that ‘hate-filled Conservatives caused the Suicides’ is baseless and absurd. I’m hearing Jordan Peterson: “Grow the Hell Up!”
"Proper defenses" is a great way to put it. Many people don't necessarily agree with these concepts but they lack the mental framework to reject them, so they accept them by default. Everyone has their pet theory about why this is, so I will offer mine: if total depravity and unconditional election are rejected and a synergistic view( I think I am using the correct word, trying to describe the view that God and man are co-equals/participants in the process of salvation) is accepted, then it becomes a real struggle to explain the reality of society's hostility to the truth of Christianity. Most Christians believe people are naturally good, or at least neutral. It follows that if people are good or neutral they will be inclined to seek the things of God, or at least not be hostile to the things of God. Since many good/neutral people don't seek the things of God, the person/church holding this view naturally concludes that there must be something wrong with the systematic processes, or presentation, of Christianity and if those processes are refined then things will finally change and all these people will see the light. There is no place for God in this framework,other than on the fringe helping to identify what processes need to be changed. Its a fundamental misunderstanding of human nature and reality. Any chance the GMC adopts the doctrine of election at its organizing conference?😊 @@plainspokenpod
Jeffery is a Wesleyan at heart. I'd ask you, Chad, to research the theology of the Wesley brothers and the origin of Methodism. maybe you would be better fit as a Global Methodist?
@@keithshank1783 I would actually be very comfortable as a Global Methodist. I listened to an ordination sermon from Bishop Jones that he did at Norcross GMC. I thought it was really good.
This article might disabuse you of the notion that I would be a good fit as a nondenominational pastor: open.substack.com/pub/jeffreyrickman/p/methodist-nature-connexional-and?r=17brpc&showWelcomeOnShare=true
Dude. I am so disappointed. (and yeah I know that no one says "dude" anymore. I do and I see no reason to conform to LGBTQwhatever or "what people are supposed to say." Maybe that is why I like your show. But if you do a commentary you need to ensure that you read what you think you read at first glance. I know you are not a scholar. Perhaps it is my background as an investigator (rather than my background as a pastor,) that makes this a point for me. HOWEVER, if you want to explain why we cannot ever get along with the heretics in the UMC (and the non-heretics who simply 'want to get along' with the apostates - I do have some good friends who I fear may not make it because of their mushy views but we'll see when I get there. I have a feeling that I may see a lot of folks that surprise me and not see others that equally surprise mem) you need to be clear on your premise and you're reading. She didn't say these good people "want me to kill myself," she said these "those good people MADE me want to kill myself." That does not mean that "those good people" want a "sexual genocide" of gays. He didn't say that. Even if he thinks that. And I really think that they DO think that about us. Between Trump and my Biblical views my stepdaughter said she wouldn't let me near her children. "I won't let strangers who think like that near my kids why should I let him." We are baby-killing (ironic that,) homosexual torturing fanatics to these people and, according to them, we are inhuman and have no redeeming traits and are monstrous. This view is not new. Liberation Theology and Leftist Religion is grounded in Neo-Marxism not fascism (fascism is nationalist Neo-Marxist is internationalist and hates nationalism and distinction - again you are not a political scientist but don't be sloppy with your language. As I have pointed out many times on my website Marx favorite saying was "everything that exists deserves to perish" a quote from Satan in Milton...again "how fitting." This rage against everything God has created is masked in Liberation Theology, but everything grounded in Marxism is ultimately grounded in rebellion against God and hatred for creation. They actively seek to warp and destroy everything good, or they are the useful idiots that the Marxists use to destroy things by manipulating their emotions and naivete. Again, I like your teaching and your input. But those who teach are held to a higher standard, according to Paul.
I register two critiques in this comment: 1) I read the key quote wrong, and 2) I attribute the pressure to conformity with fascism at one point rather than neomarxism. I do wish I had read the key quote accurately. No real explanation on my end. I don’t think the analysis I offered would change based on the different reading, but I do wish I had read the key quote correctly. With respect to the fascism thing, I stand by it. Yes, the modern left utilized mutually exclusive ideologies. That doesn’t bother them. The goal for them isn’t consistency. It is destruction.
@@plainspokenpod "The goal for them isn't consitency. It is destruction." Absolutely. It is Satanic in a very real sense. When I was an agent, I didn't realize how much it was so. Even as a pastor I didn't realize this. Only recently listening to Jordan Peterson about Communism, reading the Naked Communist; American Betrayal; and the Devil's Pleasure Palace by Michael Walsh (not matt walsh but michael walsh) did I realize that when God took me from Counterintelligence to the Pastorate it wasn't because he wanted me in a different fight. I only just realized it was 100% the same fight. I always told my parishioners that God uses all of our experiences and even our mistakes he puts to use in his plan. I confessed to one parishioner that I was slightly bothered that God might have a use for a Drill Sergeant/Cavalry Scout/Counterintelligence Special Agent/Political Scientist/Pastor and what the fight looked like where all that would be brought together. Now I know. You seem very centered. I am glad you didn't take that personally. I spoke to you more familiarly than I have a right to. Overstating it somewhat as my sense of humor tends to. I know that only about 10% of human communication is through words and you got none of the inflection or nuance of tone. Sir, you do great work. My wife won't watch you because she gets angry at the UMC and what we experienced, and she since returned to the Catholic Church. We had both been UMC pastors though in NW Missouri. I watch you because I am too Wesleyan to think any other way. My post was a quibble. Your misreading leaves you open to criticism so I wanted to point it out to you. But I don't think it fundamentally changes anything that you had to say. Keep up the good work. You are an anchor of Christ in a turbulent time.
I feel this way in my UMC .Therebare no global methodist churches near me..I am leaving today Inam so sad to leave UMC but I cant take it anymore..
come out from among them, says the Lord....obey!!
Hello from
West Virginia. I so appreciate your ministry and all you are doing. Praying for you and your ministry and for the world. Please continue to pray for the churches who are still being held captive by the UMC❤🙏
i just volunteered with samiritans purse and was excited to share my experience with my umc members they were dismayed Inwould wotlrk in a billy graham program .thats my sign i am out of umc!!!
beware of sp! they require their workers to be polked up!!
@@gofish8181 you are better off to get out.
@@Lauren-vd4qewhat does polked mean?
@@reapthewhirlwind4166 well think about it this way; if someone pokes u in the ...um...arm....now do u get it? yt wont allow the real word so one must make one UP for it eh! so DONT reply on this thread with the veeee word....
God's heart breaks for what breaks ours. All of this sin sickness is breaking my heart. I have two prodigal sons who have completely walked away from the faith we raised them to follow and live. The want nothing to do with church any longer. All I can do is pray for them. They won't even speak to us any more. Please pray for my fractured family. I have two grandchildren. Our son and his wife won't allow us to see them. Their mother says she doesn't want them exposed to "proselytizers" I have never forced my faith on anyone. It's a personal decision to follow christ. But if I choose not to live like a disciple of hell, and my son and wife consider that proselytizing, there is nothing i can do. I am not turning my back on my Wesleyan faith.
Faith comes before family. Rather, faith gives us a new family. I'm sorry for the brokenness in your biological family. I have five children. It is my worst fear that they should live outside of faithful covenant relationship with Christ. I pray for your children's repentance. In the meantime, stay strong. Your sensibilities about the level of conversion required before one is acknowledged by the church are, I believe, right. Cheap grace is a great threat to true faith. I'm glad you have a home in a solid Wesleyan church.
I had a friend who asked me why I left. I told her it was because I could read.
and obey...which is wise. she didnt leave too?
This was excellent. Thank you and may God bless you for your courage, faithfulness and yes, love, to speak the truth when it's uncomfortable.
Spot on! I could say so much about this I observe in the UMC church Im still a member of, tho I now attend worship at a GMC church. Long story here.
What it comes down to is whether we want young children to be presented "role models" that many of us consider to be perverts.
Come out from among them and be ye separate.
I am conservative I left the PC USA several decades ago. My parents stayed and the wokeness really went off the rails in 2020 after the BLM riots. They were members of the denomination until they passed away.
Yes, we in beautiful West Virginia need prayers. 🙏
I heard one pastor speaking at a UMC meeting telling the congregation about General Conference. During the question and answer session a member asked the scripture that talks about homosexuality. He said that the language changed in 1946 that the Greek word used did not mean homosexuality. I googled and found what he was referring to. I just can’t wrap my head around this. I believe that practicing homosexuality and other sexual acts outside of marriage between a man and a woman is sin.
Thank you for your ministry!
Yeah that's a really disingenuous thing people say. It is frustrating to know what to do with people who think that is a valid point. There is nothing new under the sun. The bible speaks pretty clearly to this issue, in particular. I'm glad you appreciate my ministry!
A recent book by Rebecca McLaughlin addresses this: ruclips.net/video/NtxLTwGYdSA/видео.html
@@plainspokenpod Leftists are Neo-Marxists. Marxists are liars. i thought they were dying out with the Soviet Union, I was wrong. I was a counterintelligence Special Agent during the Cold War before I became a UMC pastor. I failed in that as well as in trying to call my church back to Wesley and the Scriptures. They serve the Master of Lies and they are faithful disciples. We need to stop expecting them to have ethics. They don't. Although most of these people are probably what the Communists call "useful idiots." But they could not have killed 100 million people without the help of "useful idiots." You keep using fascist where you mean Communist. I won't try to teach you about Fascism, people have lied about that -ism so much sorting it out requires a dissertation worth of work. Both Fascism and Communism were socialist but Romanian, Spanish, and Italian Fascism were grounded in their Catholicism and friendly to it (the "Iron Guard" of Romania was called the Order of Saint Michael the Archangel and Mussolini originally supported both the crown and the church of Rome. I'm not saying they were faithful followers of Christ but you really need to stop conflating the internationalist globalist Leftism of Communists with the ultra-nationalist socialism of the Fascists. Unfortunately, Edward Bernays and his disciples were so effective in their Nazi propaganda most people will never have a clue what fascists really believed. I studied World War II most of my life and only in the last ten years have I discovered the extent to which my "history" is actually propaganda. My efforts to sort that out has led me to read a lot of Nazi training materials and far too much Hitler. I was shocked...shocked...by how much Hitler talked about "the Living God" and Providence. THAT is perhaps more of a cautionary tale than the myth that he was an unfeeling monster. He loved dogs and children and Germans and killed six million jews. Stalin/Marxist ideas killed 100 million, but our educational elite continue to excuse Communists - the New York Times even concealed the deaths of six million Ukrainians in the 1920s. For some unholy reason we have always seemed to love communists and blame fascists. Hitler got his wonderful Concentration Camp idea from the Soviets, yet the Soviets presided along with us in the Nurenburg trials. Fascist does NOT equal Communist, but they are BOTH Democratic Socialists. Now all those who don't really know can line up and attack me. I'm used to it. I didn't keep my mouth shut in the UMC either. Truth is worth defending even if it is unpopular.
It’s hard enough for me as a Christian to deal with my own sin let alone try and be the judge and jury of others sin. Prayers for you brother
Christ requires that we judge with right judgment. If you think the only one you're responsible for is yourself, you're going to be very dismayed later.
come out from among them, so you do not share in their punishment... Rev. 18:4
"Lives are precious" unless it's an unborn life, then you can throw it away......
Hello I'm from NC. Was involved not a member of a UMC for three years prior to the pandemic. Grew very depressed about what I was seeing in the UMC. From 2016-2019, I saw a lax attitude toward sin in general. I saw crackhead junkie mothers who did not show any sign of transformation, getting baptized. I saw a known drug dealer and his wife take Holy communion and both got baptized. Once these people were baptized, I never saw them in church again. The drug dealer and his wife were arrested for selling heroin, and murder when a pregnant girl overdosed in a hotel room. Their 6 kids were placed into foster care when they went to prison. The junkie girl that was baptized was also pregnant. she gave birth to a blind, half dead baby that ended up in foster care. It was literally making me sick. I felt like the church, the preacher (who I was in music ministry with) was making a mockery out of communion and baptism. It was like, if it feels good do it, anything is allowed and they were throwing that phrase Rethink Church all over the place. When the churches locked down during the pandemic, our local UMCs remained closed for 2.5 years when all the other churches remained open. That's when I made my exit. I started attending a Wesleyan church plant in my county where my son serves on the praise/worship/production team. I never left. The Wesleyan Church brought me out of the depression I was battling in the UMC and the pandemic. Looking back, I think the reason the churches remained closed for that long was because they were engaged in back door dealings trying to grab property, power, and political panhandling to get ready for the church split we see now.
I appreciate what you are saying about the LGBTQ controversy and what it is doing to people's souls and minds. I really believed, and I am a retired nurse, not a conspiracy theorist, that we are going to see a mutation in the HIV in the future that will be resistant to treatment. I do not trust these new commericals for drugs that allow a patient to be "undetectable." There is something wrong with those words. I am not comfortable. yesterday I saw back to back ads for two of those drugs. We are being brainwashed by those ads. It's subliminal advertising. I believe undetectable does NOT mean virus free. It's going to encourage gay men and bisexuals to have unprotected sex. Even tthe Red Cross has quit asking about HIV status for blood donations. we are on the edge of a pharmacology cliff and like the story in the Bible, Jesus commanded the demons to leave and the pigs ran over a cliff to their death. I don't know, maybe I'm the only one who believes this, but I trust my instincts.
Thank you , Jeffrey, for having the courage to address this thorny issue. In my opinion, the failure to address this properly in many churches in the past, is the reason we’re now having to deal with it. I personally don’t think it a mystery on why up until recently, here in the West, we didn’t face much hostility from our surrounding culture. Our past supportive culture was the result of the merger of church and state back in 313 AD with the Edict of Milan. Western culture and Christendom are practically synonymous. What concerns me now is the fact that the Institutional Church was a product of that merger as well, and now with the decline of Western civilization and Christendom, many churches seem to be oblivious the the fact that we’ve experienced a serious paradigm shift, and now will face a culture hostile towards Biblical Christianity. The way the progressive church is handling it is to lower the bar, to accommodate the spirit of the age. The orthodox/traditional church, I feel may not be adequately prepared to face what is sure to come. I believe that your type of programming is a step in right direction.
To a degree, this has already transpired several times over in different western contexts. French Revolution comes to mind, but there have also been times of serious spiritual and moral decline in the American church before, followed by revival of one sort or another. I think there is power in recognizing that there is nothing new under the sun. But I only sort of believe that. I think modern technology radically shifts the bounds of play. Previous societies had certain natural constraints that we seem to have significantly pushed back, though not yet eliminated. Anyway, thanks for the affirmations. I hope I come to be part of the solution and not the problem...
Amen. Thank you for your ministry.
Most of the UMC churches in my part of Michigan decided to stay in the apostate denomination. There were some votes but it's tough to get that 67% vote to leave. Now that it's 2024, the MICH Conference has closed the doors for allowing more local church dissafillations. For conservative people in the MI Conference it's time to leave, and find conservative bible believing congregations that will take us theologically conservative refugees in! What a sorrowful time for traditional Methodists in Mich. Almost makes me wish I lived in the south were the GMC is more numerous. 😢
I'm also in Michigan in Wayne County. The closest GMC church is almost an hour away. My UMC church will be closing soon, though the Pasture doesn't think so. Most of the active members are leaving since the 24 conference. I'll be gone soon. We couldn't afford to disaffiliate when we had a chance and our Pasture had a wait and see attitude. Finding a biblical conservative church in this area is hard. Most churches in my area may appear to be conservative but listening to their sermons on line I find they preach from old dead men and teach from different confessional or systematics.
@@Steven-et9hs same thing in Bay Area CA no GMCs. I went to a non denominational until a GMC is started. They have one GMC but it's too far for me to go to and culturally it's all tongan membership
@@gofish8181 The Calvary Chapel group of churches are a good conservative group of over 1,300 churches. Denomination was started in California, so there should be some in the bay area. I sure hope you find a church home soon.
@@Steven-et9hs TY.. I really enjoy skip Helzig .. probably not correct spelling.. I watch his videos and he is Calvary church in NM.I agree I like their breakdown of the Bible . I am starting to search for a match..
One church I served missed the vote to disaffiliate by 4 votes. The split was predictable since it followed the lines of disagreement I noticed (and fought) while I was there. The minority's victory was a pyrrhic victory since the majority never returned, so a congregation of just over 100 was reduced to 30 the next week. The church building and a small group is remaining in the UMC while the majority of the congregation now meets in another building as a GMC church. It is a profoundly sad ending to what was once a great church that averaged in the 140's and higher in the heyday of my time with them.
Yes, Mr. Turning did do a lot in WWII. The code-breaking project involved thousands of people. He was a critical person, but one of many. He alone did not break the code.
Former member PC(USA) here, but did attend UMC growing up. Spot on. Throughout 2022-23, I noted numerous times on IRD that conservative members of the UMC on the fence about leaving should understand that the opposition to your continued participation in the denomination will not end once the Book of Discipline is changed. The leadership at all levels of the PC(USA) since the Book of Order was changed in 2010 and 2014 have continued to demonize and misrepresent what the remaining conservative membership believe on nearly ever issue. It seems to have worsened under former Stated Clerk J. Herbert Nelson II, who was head of the Washington Office, immediately prior to being selected as the denomination's head, and the late Tim Keller once referred to the PC(USA) in one of his final articles wriiten in the fall of 2022 as part of "the religious arm of one of the two major political parties in the United States". Furthermore, while the PC(USA) officially has a polity of "diversity of thought", its leadership at numerous levels do not really believe it, when you look at what is put out. Again, at least as far back as Mr. Nelson's tenure, the denomination quit making any accomodating statements on any area where people should at least be able to find common agreement, because the far leftist activists running things wouldn't allow it, and either the moderates were in general agreement and thus chameleons, or had no spine to stand up to them.
All that to say, a decade of continued pressure by these false Christians who have taken over, for I do not know what else to call them, has resulted in Overture 1 at this year's General Assembly which if passed, even as amended and in its broken up component parts, will more than likely result in no conservatives being ordained as ministers in liberal presbyteries, while in more liberal churches, there more than likely will not be any conservative deacons or elders, because the effect will be to disregard that polity. I honestly believe that if these activists could have their way, they would change the governance structure to give the presbyteries the level of power that UMC conferences have to unilaterally take over a local congregation that refuses to get with the program.
I pray that conservatives who are able, leave as soon as they can, for we know thatbin some conferences, they were lied to, and no longer can, other than by simply walking away and leaving everything behind.
I wonder how Turing would feel about his genius being attributed to his homosexuality. I see him as a brilliant person that happened to be homosexual.
Clearly, Methodism is based on the precepts of men, not the precepts of God.
Amen
pure slander "those people want me to kill myself" - No. No we don't. We don't hate his daughter. And his letting that sit without correction is pure slander. It's hate. And it sure isn't loving your neighbor as yourself. Likely, she hasn't had any meaningful conversation with an actual theological conservative. Vile.
Apostasy continues just as a sin addict keeps picking up new addictions. Disorder breeds more disorder. If the roots are sick, the branches die and the trunk rots from the inside. Eventually insects find a home there and then it is reduced to compost. All churches borne of schism end that way. Don't be good, Jesus did not say to be good. Be Holy as His Father is.
Wondering if the pastor you quoted would be intellectually consistent. IF our culture is diminished by the loss of deceased LGBTQIA persons how much is our culture diminished by the loss of thousands (millions) of unborn children in general?
Why? Because the leadership of the denomination is filled with unregenerated people.
What's the phrase at 13:23-13:26? He seemed to slur through it.
Well, tripping, slurring, whatever. The word 'fascism' literally comes from the 'fasces,' which was the symbol of a bunch of sticks that are all together, such that they aren't easily broken. There are a number of depictions of this at this article: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascist_symbolism
My notifications show that you responded to this, but I can't see but a clip of what you said. Sorry. Weird.
So the proper way to show the love of Christ is to allow people to remain in their sins? Jesus sent to sinners and told them to repent, go and din no more. He never left sinners in their sins by condoning the sins. The liberal position is filled with such flawed logic it makes your head spin. Stay strong brother, keep teaching the truth in love.
Does this particular Individual speak for All or most United Methodists?? I doubt it.
I don't know how one would answer that question. I'm not sure it matters. In group dynamics, the way things go don't really come down to majority rule or sentiment most of the time. Rather, it is a small group of motivated individuals. That is what has already happened in the UMC, a minority extreme group took control, grabbing the reins of power. Centrists and polite conservatives weren't able or willing to nip it in the bud. Firm conservatives were forced out. It'll happen again in the GMC if we don't work up proper defenses. If you do end up studying this question, I would be interested in how many UMs agree with a statement like "Traditional Christian teaching around sexuality has played a significant role in gay and trans suicide." I suspect over 75% would agree with such a statement.
I agree with you: that the notion that ‘hate-filled Conservatives caused the Suicides’ is baseless and absurd. I’m hearing Jordan Peterson: “Grow the Hell Up!”
"Proper defenses" is a great way to put it. Many people don't necessarily agree with these concepts but they lack the mental framework to reject them, so they accept them by default. Everyone has their pet theory about why this is, so I will offer mine: if total depravity and unconditional election are rejected and a synergistic view( I think I am using the correct word, trying to describe the view that God and man are co-equals/participants in the process of salvation) is accepted, then it becomes a real struggle to explain the reality of society's hostility to the truth of Christianity. Most Christians believe people are naturally good, or at least neutral. It follows that if people are good or neutral they will be inclined to seek the things of God, or at least not be hostile to the things of God. Since many good/neutral people don't seek the things of God, the person/church holding this view naturally concludes that there must be something wrong with the systematic processes, or presentation, of Christianity and if those processes are refined then things will finally change and all these people will see the light. There is no place for God in this framework,other than on the fringe helping to identify what processes need to be changed. Its a fundamental misunderstanding of human nature and reality. Any chance the GMC adopts the doctrine of election at its organizing conference?😊 @@plainspokenpod
Jeff, are you sure you wouldn’t be a better fit as non-denominational?
Yes.
Jeffery is a Wesleyan at heart. I'd ask you, Chad, to research the theology of the Wesley brothers and the origin of Methodism. maybe you would be better fit as a Global Methodist?
@@keithshank1783 I would actually be very comfortable as a Global Methodist. I listened to an ordination sermon from Bishop Jones that he did at Norcross GMC. I thought it was really good.
This article might disabuse you of the notion that I would be a good fit as a nondenominational pastor: open.substack.com/pub/jeffreyrickman/p/methodist-nature-connexional-and?r=17brpc&showWelcomeOnShare=true
Dude. I am so disappointed. (and yeah I know that no one says "dude" anymore. I do and I see no reason to conform to LGBTQwhatever or "what people are supposed to say." Maybe that is why I like your show. But if you do a commentary you need to ensure that you read what you think you read at first glance. I know you are not a scholar. Perhaps it is my background as an investigator (rather than my background as a pastor,) that makes this a point for me. HOWEVER, if you want to explain why we cannot ever get along with the heretics in the UMC (and the non-heretics who simply 'want to get along' with the apostates - I do have some good friends who I fear may not make it because of their mushy views but we'll see when I get there. I have a feeling that I may see a lot of folks that surprise me and not see others that equally surprise mem) you need to be clear on your premise and you're reading. She didn't say these good people "want me to kill myself," she said these "those good people MADE me want to kill myself." That does not mean that "those good people" want a "sexual genocide" of gays. He didn't say that. Even if he thinks that. And I really think that they DO think that about us. Between Trump and my Biblical views my stepdaughter said she wouldn't let me near her children. "I won't let strangers who think like that near my kids why should I let him." We are baby-killing (ironic that,) homosexual torturing fanatics to these people and, according to them, we are inhuman and have no redeeming traits and are monstrous. This view is not new. Liberation Theology and Leftist Religion is grounded in Neo-Marxism not fascism (fascism is nationalist Neo-Marxist is internationalist and hates nationalism and distinction - again you are not a political scientist but don't be sloppy with your language. As I have pointed out many times on my website Marx favorite saying was "everything that exists deserves to perish" a quote from Satan in Milton...again "how fitting." This rage against everything God has created is masked in Liberation Theology, but everything grounded in Marxism is ultimately grounded in rebellion against God and hatred for creation. They actively seek to warp and destroy everything good, or they are the useful idiots that the Marxists use to destroy things by manipulating their emotions and naivete. Again, I like your teaching and your input. But those who teach are held to a higher standard, according to Paul.
I register two critiques in this comment: 1) I read the key quote wrong, and 2) I attribute the pressure to conformity with fascism at one point rather than neomarxism. I do wish I had read the key quote accurately. No real explanation on my end. I don’t think the analysis I offered would change based on the different reading, but I do wish I had read the key quote correctly. With respect to the fascism thing, I stand by it. Yes, the modern left utilized mutually exclusive ideologies. That doesn’t bother them. The goal for them isn’t consistency. It is destruction.
@@plainspokenpod "The goal for them isn't consitency. It is destruction." Absolutely. It is Satanic in a very real sense. When I was an agent, I didn't realize how much it was so. Even as a pastor I didn't realize this. Only recently listening to Jordan Peterson about Communism, reading the Naked Communist; American Betrayal; and the Devil's Pleasure Palace by Michael Walsh (not matt walsh but michael walsh) did I realize that when God took me from Counterintelligence to the Pastorate it wasn't because he wanted me in a different fight. I only just realized it was 100% the same fight. I always told my parishioners that God uses all of our experiences and even our mistakes he puts to use in his plan. I confessed to one parishioner that I was slightly bothered that God might have a use for a Drill Sergeant/Cavalry Scout/Counterintelligence Special Agent/Political Scientist/Pastor and what the fight looked like where all that would be brought together. Now I know. You seem very centered. I am glad you didn't take that personally. I spoke to you more familiarly than I have a right to. Overstating it somewhat as my sense of humor tends to. I know that only about 10% of human communication is through words and you got none of the inflection or nuance of tone. Sir, you do great work. My wife won't watch you because she gets angry at the UMC and what we experienced, and she since returned to the Catholic Church. We had both been UMC pastors though in NW Missouri. I watch you because I am too Wesleyan to think any other way. My post was a quibble. Your misreading leaves you open to criticism so I wanted to point it out to you. But I don't think it fundamentally changes anything that you had to say. Keep up the good work. You are an anchor of Christ in a turbulent time.