@McDojoLife
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- Опубликовано: 9 июл 2024
- Rob from McDojoLife walks me through how to get someone to buy martial arts and the difference between a legitimate martial artist and a cult leader.
Check out Part 1: • How Fraudulent Martial...
And here is Part 3: • Identifying and Escapi...
0:00 Cult vs. Martial Arts
1:39 Preface and the Con
5:07 Breakdown
9:15 Selling Martial Arts
Twitter: / armchairviolenc
I worked in sales for a number of years. Rob's entire routine was basically an excellent sales flow, basically working through objections as quickly as possible using information obtained from the customer. It's manipulative as hell, but very effective. I worked for a cable company, and they would fly trainers cross country to teach this process to beginner salespeople.
Rob's fake gym owner is still a better gym owner than a lot of gym owners I've met.
My gyms sales pitch was basicly "we hit in the head, lots of other gyms dont do that but we do. also im going to fuck your leg up regulary, so if walking is something you enjoy maybe dont come here."
Damn, Rob's good at this. I was about to sign up for his class myself.
Mike and I were enjoying the free demo on school/dojo conversions! lol
I edited out a lot of his business advice. I might he able to send it to you, though lol
Bruh you ain't lieing, Rob could easily run a seminar on that
Awesome, now I know how to get students into my very legit and definitely not bullshit school.
🤣... with a yearly, monthly debited, automatically renewed subscription.
You edited this super well man. We talked for a long time that day and you got all the info in. Impressed man. Looking forward to seeing part 3 and I was there lol
Side note: let’s make a music video with that outro song you have on your videos. Dead serious
Thank you! It was a fun challenge to edit when we went back and forth on so many topics.
Unfortunately, that song only exists as that handful of lines lol
I could write more, but I don't know how risky the copyright situation would be since it's a parody.
Although, I am tempted to try it because that sounds really fun!
@@ArmchairViolence send me a text and we will figure it out.
@@ArmchairViolence because it literally is a parody song, you should be good to go! People have been doing alt lyrics to popular songs and selling them since Allan Sherman in the 60s.
Parody is protected speech, there is very little anyone can do to stop you from doing a parody.
This is super freaking mind-blowing! New fav martial art channel (sorry Mike, Seth, Jesse and McDojo).
P.S: I own a martial art school.
I can relate on being the short guy in the family. I'm 5'6, my dad is 6'4, my "little" brother is about 6'1, all my uncles are over 6ft. Great vid by the way, these collabs have been on point
So before martial Arts, Rob clearly had a job selling ice to the Eskimos
I worked at 24 hour fitness years ago, this is basically exactly how fitness counselors (read: membership dealers) are taught to handle the pitch. McDojo could easily be a regional manager
McDojo is going in deep with the psychology. I didn't like his channel earlier on. I sure will subsribe and look more in depth and with a refreshed and new mind.
Thanks for that guys.
That intro was actually a very good and thorough intro. The first part of conning someone is to gain their trust and a good intro is one way yo do that.
I don’t know if anyone else stuck around for the little outro song, but that was awesome hahaha
Throw us a kick...you're the Muay Thai man....show us the teep again....
"You're never going to get them out of the cult. They have to make their own decision to do that." Welp, I was in a martial arts cult for a couple of years, but had to come to the realization myself that I was being conned. Despite being warned by some others who had previous experience with the martial arts cult leader, I shrugged it off as nonsense initially. Then recently, I apologized to them because they were right, but Rob is completely accurate in saying that a third party can't get someone out of a cult. They have to come to that realization on their own.
"armchair is the only guy under 6ft in his family"
😞 rough
You know what was a VERY useful self defense tip?
How to react to this type of pre-framing!! That helped a lot in todays' criminal world, too, where many things are done by digital scamming. Dubious contracts by phone calls etc.
"You already gave power..." is the most important part. How do I remain confident enough to either stay neutral regarding the information I give and nit look like an antagonist when denying it.
Personally the alarm bells started when the instructor asked seemingly harmlessly about his family.
There is that myth of " da streetz" where fights are fought but western societies have evolved into fighting with words more than raw "leeg mossles" so many troublesome situations occur not there anymore but in private space.
Funny thing is I have done this. Not for a malicious reason or anything, but while I was trying to get people to at least try out in my dojo this is what I did in person. I walked up to a guy that was alone and I saw that he liked Manga so I decided to talk to him about that and when I saw an opening I was like "wouldn't you like to try and do co stuff like that too" and even tho he didn't try out immediately after some time he walked in the door. I got to know him more and more and more and eventually even some of his family came in to try out. I never even realized what I was doing lmao
Awesome. I'm really enjoying these collaborations. Respect!
Fun fact, i go to a martial art school that offers many different styles with different instructors, and its basically free... They only ask for donatio s for keeping the gym running... Training there feels awesome, the fact that i know its not about thenmoney makes me trust my instructors more
Thats kinda sad. They should just run a moderate business and then they would be good
@@mathewpercy3292 as long as it keeps the lights on they're all good. They tend to be attached to community and youth centres, with the intention of keeping kids (and adults) out of trouble by giving them something cool and cheap to do. Martial arts is an expensive hobby in a lot of commercial schools.
@@lihchong2267 exactly, everyone that teaches there has a paid gym or dojo somewhere else, and/or a day job... It is however a great way to help society, things like this really do lower crimerates and inequality
@@gingercore69 do they maintain a formal ranking system at that school? I've been to a few community kung fu schools. One of them taught one form to everyone per term, then did an examination at the end of term but had no belt system. The other seemingly was a bit of a free for all - learn a form, learn another one, but as far as i could tell no gradings and no belts.
The other not for profits i've been to were either learn the 3-4 techniques of the day, or it was open mats/bags.
@@lihchong2267 yes, and up until now, all belt tests ive seen were in house, not events and free... You prove you can do the stuff, you get the belt... However, for tournaments and similar stuff you do have to pay... But its not uncommom that people will donate money or pay for the travel of other participants for them to go to the tournaments...
However, this is completly independent from the government... There are other gyms that are organized by the city and have it easier...
I've spent thousands on martial arts business mentoring. This was one of the most helpful things I have ever seen ;) Thanks guys.
I love this.... learned the whole "yes yes" questions routine at Revgear university. Rob should teach it sometime.
Rob is so good, I want to sign up for this class that doesn't exist👍👍
All my years of sales came rushing back. Get the Yes's before they become No's. That's what made me leave the big gym, the focus on Sales instead of help.
It’s worth noting that rob basically just uses regular old pushy sales tactics that you’d see at a car dealership. Combined with the “assumed expertise” as a martial arts instructor, an untrained person will easily get sucked in
Rob‘s description of his class sounded like an exceptionally awesome gym
Rob's body language makes my hair stand up. The fast twitch, closed off posture, hands in the hoodie every two seconds, eek.
Oh yeah I've been waiting for this one.
9:14 Sensei Seth paying the closest of the attentions!
6:45
There was one thing that was immediately suspicious for me for some reason.
And that was him asking where you were coming from 3:25 and then saying "ok cool so that's not that far away".
But maybe I'm just naturally distrustful. lol
Cults are filled with doubters and skeptics who would swear up and down that they would never join a cult.
Also, worth pointing out that not all cults or cult leaders are con artists; plenty of true believers out there (and some, like Jim Jones, who were pretending to believe one thing but actually believed something else- both con artist and true believer at once) . Something being a swindle isn't the only or even the main criteria for something being a cult.
For example there was an ex police officer who oppened a gym where he taught self defense based muhay thai and playing with self defense tools with his clients unsafely and he actually thought that his thing works until he got ass kicked in some self defense simulation.
Since then he is playing with some zombie head practicing eye gouging...
In like 10 ten minutes you covered one of the most important aspects of sales, the ~5 objections. Nice job Rob! I was in consulting and sales for years, and still some of my people could never grasp this concept. I should've taught it this way. That's on me, I will do better next time. And use your technique!
You're really good at this format of talking with other people about Martial Arts. I know you often work with RUclips MA legends, but you give really thoughtful breakdowns while also giving other people a chance to talk. Cool stuff.
Sales 101 baby you need to uncover the need before you can sell something to someone
I grew up in a cult, by the time I was an adult I didn't truly believe in it but between the culture, indoctrination, and sunk cost it took me 12 more years to finally leave it behind. Also that is exactly how they teach you to evangelize, crazy stuff.
Man you drew the genetic short straw too? I'm a hobbit in a family of giants. Is there some kind of short king martial arts club I can join?
The annoying thing is that I'm not even short. I feel completely normal until I go to Thanksgiving lol
I wanna hear that whole piano man parody lmao
That was an excellent sign-up pitch!
This is super insightful as a school owner
Can I try to make you a logo and intro theme too??
Yeah, if you wanna!
This was one of the best martial arts videos I've seen in a while, and I watch a LOT of martial arts videos.
This is one of the most important videos yall have done. I like Rob's videos & he broke things down great here.
The problem tho is that the sales pitch is nearly identical to any other MA school, that's what makes it so effective id imagine. Its a big reason why I am untrusting of schools that don't compete.
I appreciate this.
I didn't see a lot of conman antics in here. It was really just a solid sales call where he asks questions to understand the needs of the customer better so that he could understand what he needs. The only weird thing he said was that he needs to know if he has any injuries or issues so the instructor knows why he might not be trying hard enough. Knowing if they have any issues is standard, but the reasoning is the key.
Loving all the channels crossing over here lately!
Rob is a bloody Jedi Master
This is so true. We did this same sales technique at the parkour gym I worked at.
I would love a second verse to your outro song!
Lmfao bro your channel is hilarious. Love the content! Great job keep up the hard work!
that ending song lol
Love the great value intro lol
I went to a BJJ class and what turned me off waas that he didn´t even bother to ask my name. His jiu jitsu seemed legit but that and the classes being late and the school being too far away for me made me not want to do it. I don´t discard learning the art though
Also I need that damn song at the end
This was very interesting, Rob is very knowledgeable!
I found a boxing gym near me that does a fixed monthly rate for as many lessons as you want. I had to take a break from a foot injury but I'm hoping to get back into it.
This is fascinating. I've thought for a long time that the most important aspect of morality is intention. What matters most is whether you are trying to be kind and serve others, or whether you are playing the angles and only looking out for yourself. (Incidentally, this is why I hate the idea that "microaggressions" and "unconscious bias" are as bad as overt discrimination...but that's another rant).
It was really interesting to hear y'all talk about how intent makes the difference between police/criminals and cult leaders vs. honest caring teachers.
wow, really good stuff
Wow. Wish I was that smooth.
Good way to avoid the pressure, just say this is the first gym your checkin out and you want to compare b4 signing. Same applies for buying a car etc
I was exited for this since you teased it
I love watching you live learning stuff. Very cute.
It's weird, i get put off by this kind of sales pitch - not because it's a cult but because it's usually for something expensive that's hard to get out of. I walked away from an mma school i was looking into because they had a two month cancellation period, and i'm between houses right now. Upon reflection it seemed really predatory.
why the hell would they need that much notice, if any notice at all lmfao? that's ridiculously predatory, it's not like you're quitting your job, they can replace your spot in the class instantly lol
@@Wishuponapancake with automatic payment systems it's pretty normal around here to have a cancellation notice period, but usually it's like 2-4 weeks. It's messed up because if eviction notice periods are one month, so if you have to move to the other side town you're stuck paying for something you can't use.
The first half was just a intro to marketing.
This is a great selling tactic!
I'm private as hell, soon as he asked me where I'm coming from I'd raise an eyebrow and shut down.
My first experience back in 1980 happened kind of like this. It was a kinda-Kenpo style that is only on the west coast, and they hired black belts from all styles; you just had to learn the silly forms. But they had me hooked real quickly because I wanted to learn, to train, and feel like I was part of something big and not just a recent variation of a recent variation of a classical style. I was fortunate that there was one instructor that tried to break out of the mold and actually set me up on a program that didn't involve feel-good belt stripes and useless techniques like butterfly parries and whatnot. He did so well I left after 6 months. I eventually found a hard-core school and never used a butterfly parry again.
But the point is, I didn't know what I was looking for when I went in. No RUclips then, no google. You believed what they said, having no experience. You would think it would be harder now, but I have found folks are typically convinced if the person sounds sincere and informative- you see him as an expert that will guide you, bring out that Warrior that has been lurking there and gives you a sense of longing and desire to have that kind of confidence, join a group. Real classical styles don't care if you are comfortable or want to take a test before you are ready, or if it hurts to do knuckle push-ups on hot asphalt on a hot California summer day. If you don't like it, leave. If you have what it takes, you will stay.
Any thoughts on releasing a full single?
You could be the Weird Al of martial arts!
Already have a fan base 🤷🏻♂️
Awesome
I was thumbs up/like number 911..👍❤️👍
ok, ok. Now sell me this pen
Truest thing I've heard a former cop say. "Cops use the exact same methods criminals do.". Yep, its awful either way.
If a person is smart once they join the class they would realize it is BS and quit. Joining a gym and trying it out is not being conned.
If I had been given Rob’s sales-pitch I would have had something between severe social anxiety to all-out panic attack, since I have some pretty severe mental issues. Perhaps on a bad day I might just sign-up to get away from the situation. Or I might just walk away, I really don’t know. I prefer passive-aggressiveness towards new-comers, makes me feel safe.
Oh shit! You gotta look into West Wind Schools in the San Francisco Bay Area. They are, or were masters at manipulation. Unfortunately I was in a position to know. You rock Rob!
10:18 The talk about someone wouldn't pose the question that 'is the art affective' isn't quite true. I say this because when I first took up martial arts I said I'm interested in taking the class due to taking up work as a security guard/bouncer. The instructor said he worked in security for years as a bouncer.
My later opinion of the training was it was basically useless. The instructor was able to defend himself because he was a strong powerful guy who knew basic self-defence.
So I don't trust the fact even if you ask questions about the validity of the style if they really would be a perfect indicator of how good the class is.
Sounded like a sales script
All Geoff Thompsons video's, seem to be available for free on RUclips 😂🎉😮I'm down £50-£70😢
What is the song's at the end name?
It's just a little thing that I made, sorry
@@ArmchairViolence release the Full song
With great power comes great responsibility. The difference between a sales man and a conman is super thin. The line between a pest control technician and a mass murderer is also very thin...think about that lol.
"Know, Like, Trust" what a surprise that marshal arts guys are big on technique, they work hard at perfecting it, and also use it in other areas of life! 😉
Now the question is, Is this a shady business tactic?
Not on its own. It depends on what they're selling
Yeah, this is literally just how to be somewhat effective at sales. Its not even right to call it a "con" in my opinion.
Last time on airmchair violence?
Biggest cons in martial arts go look them up. They are milking money and fame. Becaue the fact they have a few films (bad films) and they are martial artists (very bad) they have a following. These people milk money from fans. And boost their fame it's fuckin cringe.
Aren't you a little short for a stormtrooper? I mean, martial artist...
Shortest in my family, and still twice as tall as Icy Mike 😂
McDojoLife is as good at talking as Vince Vaughn
Now to increase the stake of the con.......are you interested in NFT McDojos? :D You can have your belt and you can buy for a recipe for your belt, that you can sell someone else.....totally safe, it will documented who bought the recipe. :P
McDojo: Hi how are you? What's your job? How's your family? Got any hobbies? What's your favourite colour? Any health concerns? We'll take REAL good care of you. I'll assign one of my top students to be your personal tutor and make sure everything goes great for you.
Real Dojo: Cool. Just watch if you like and join in whenever.
And that mentality is why so so so many talented martial artists can’t keep their doors open 🤷🏻♂️
Signing people up and running a business is much more than just “watch and join in whenever”
@@McDojoLife Paradoxically, I'd be a little weirded out if an instructor took as much interest in me as you did based on my actual experience of martial arts clubs, which could protect me from fake dojos but good ones too maybe.
(well, maybe I exaggerated a little about how impersonal my teachers were, plus they both worked out of public spaces rather than gyms so I've only ever signed up when a class was in session)
Real Dojo: instructor doesn't bother to show up, receptionist does all the work. Purple belts teach all the classes and heel hook new people coming in the door lol
It’s pronounced “prafice”
Question. Do all martial arts have to have the intent of teaching self-defence? If so, why?
Nope. They can teach whatever nonsense they want as long as they're honest about it.
If they're CLAIMING to teach self-defense, then they should actually be doing that.
It's just sales, relax
A standard trustworthy bullshitter. Wearing a baseball hat indoors = instant +10 to credibility.