LOL well if to earn a black belt on any of those systems takes as much time as a regular black belt that regular systems, I wouldn't but if it's different then I agree
Most MCMAP Black belts would agree with you (though to tbh, a quick poll of the ones I know shows that most of them have been training in something else for quite some time.)
Saying they dont get self defense training is just wrong, especially in the case of marines they train control and restraint as they are employed in crowd control and law enforcement situations.
A good case study of this is a book written in 1400 by a knight who made money teaching others how to fight, covering basically everything you need to know about melee fighting, from unarmed combat to fighting from horseback. Unarmed combat is limited to grapples, because everyone has a dagger on them at all times, there is no ground fighting because if someone throws you on the ground and has a dagger, mace or pollaxe, you're better off honorably surrendering and most of the techniques there are the ones that also work when you're wearing 30 kilos of plate armor, because that's how you will fight as a knight most often. Trying to take that unarmed system, calling it a complete martial art and trying to claim it works in modern self defense context would be very silly indeed. Did I mention that what is now tai chi started out as Chinese military unarmed fighting techniques, that were explicitly noted to be not that useful for soldiers at the time (16th century treatise by general Qi Jiguang) on account of having a spear?
>when you're wearing 30 kilos of plate armor, because that's how you will fight as a knight most often. Most of what you say is good - but this is junk. Plate armour for combat was typically more 30lbs, not kg. You can literally turn somersaults in it. (You can find videos of people literally doing this on RUclips.) Modern soldiers often carry a heavier combat load, and it’s not as well distributed.
@@TheGreatAmphibian The very late full plate armor you see in 1500-1600 era was 15-20 kg range, the 1400 plate armor with full chain mail shirt under the partial plates with bascinets on top was in the 30-50 kg range (although the top of that range may have been specialized tourney armor, since this is the period when we start to see these crop up). Seeing as I was referencing treatises in 1400-1420 period, the weight of this armor is 30 kilos.
That's why people say military can't fight, but its that we train for a whole different fight, based in weapons. Hand to hand is mostly useless in a War, fighting as a Team.
I trained with a guy who was a Ranger and basically the only thing he'd gotten out of MACP that helped him in the studio was the super basic BJJ they taught him. He was good enough at some really simple stuff to not panic if he ended up on the ground but he wasn't gonna beat anybody that'd been there for 3 months. You hit the nail on the head with this video!
You all keep comparing them to trained fighters. 90 percent of civilians are not trained so you will be fighting an unskilled fighter in the street. Any training will be better than their no training.
@@dereksmith6097 I didn't. The only thing separating my friend from a untrained guy was basically a mount escape. I agree any training is better than none but the point is that the military martial arts aren't good for civilians because there's no upward mobility after getting a tiny bit good at stuff.
@@dereksmith6097 anybody who fights on the street is not going to be an average civilian. I was a weak ass child fighting people years older than me but what let me get this in was a focus and anger that 'civilians' didn't have. I was out of a bad home angry and there were others like me and we were all angry enough to not care about our own well being or the other guy's. Because of that lack of care we were good at it, competent even. That makes for dangerous men and street fighting isn't like regular fighting. An amateur boxer got Ko'd cause a buddy threw a dustbin lid at him and slapped his head into a wall. A karateka couldn't kick because he wasn't aware of his surroundings and bruised his foot on a metal pole. A bjj practicioner got floored by a simple throw on concrete. 'Average civilian'. If somebody wants to rob you they probably aren't average my dude.
@@championboy4782 So what you are saying is even if you spend years learning martial arts an untrained thug with aggression and bad intentions can mess you up quickly? Thank you, I think the overconfident MMA guys need to hear this. I hope you are in a better environment now btw.
@@grayscarab5784 Your deduction is on point. People, even MMA enthusiasts, underestimate the importance of mindset when it comes to both self defense and combat sports. Men like Mohammed Ali and Mike Tyson hired people to get beat up, not to spar, just to take punches so they could get used to the feel of hurting someone. Those two lived breathed boxing but still needed a consistent push to get the extra agression, the desire and determination to beat the opponent down. Normal 'citizens' flinch and hesitate when fighting, especially trained individuals. Even if they have the power to end the fight early, most times that flinch or lack of power draws out the fight. Not to even mention the absolute lack of environmental awareness people have these days. MMA guys focused too much on the person infront of them than the ground under their feet, a guy tried to slide on the pitch, his shins paid a dire price. One guy tripped over a jutting pipe, another closelined himself while shuffling back. Wish we had phones during those days. Ah yes, third world poverty. The classic situation usually looks like this: The fella's stamina flags, stance becomes detrimental, moves sluggish and dodges almost impossible in the environment, while the angry African boy growls, coughs and grins through bloodied teeth like he's having the the best meal of his life. The civilian flinches and slowly loses themsleves to fear and instinct, training literally fleeing due to a lack of mental composure. If they've trained religiously they'll be able to use max three techniques from this point on and they'll be less effective due to overclocking earlier in the fight. That flinch leads to the examples in the end of my last comment. Pro tip: Street fighters don't have the best endurance but what allows them to outlast is their economy of movement and composure. From he moment they attack a civilian panics and dodges way farther than necessary, natural fear comes with bare fists so they Bob and weave more than necessary, rendering their own endurance advantage almost moot. Training helps if one must fight, but I'd advise anyone to not mistake possibility for reality. The reality is that if someone wants to hurt you, almost nothing will stop them from hurting you so just give them your damned wallet already. Also, thanks for the well wish. I moved on from that crowd, joined some in-school study groups and worked from there. Moving through the tail end of University, even got a small job working a clinic for some extra money. I'm honestly shocked I even got into a university, best day of my life. Parents were, proud for the first time. It's nice now.
But a civilian fight is not equivalent to the cage and most street fighters cannot really fight, so his killer instinct and training would make him formidable.
Yeah already just how tiny bit of the training is fighting its pretty much impossible to be good at it even if their system would be good. You always hear some guy going like commandos using Fairbairn method would be so deadly against mma guy or something, but its just not simply true. Even listening actual commandos from ww2 talking about unarmed/melee fighting you pretty quickly realize they got trained more mindset, and psycholigically to be able for example stab someone to death than spending massive amounts of time actually learning to fight. People just think that agressive language they use, and simple techniques in manuals means they would be actually good, but its more like that ultra aggression is scary to the other random youngster that got just recruited of the street on the opposing side. Generally beginners been offensive, and agressive Will not end well if they happen to get up against guy who has had lets say years of actual martial arts training even something like boxing or wrestling. Your marine bro is likely way deadlier than average joe, but mainly with gun, and by staying cool under stress.
@@dereksmith6097 Facts! I remember seeing a video from a couple of months ago, of a group of Marines getting into it with some street dudes/tough guys/thugs. The Marines REALLY wrecked shop, and one of the Marines drove a dude into the concrete and just started pummeling him.
Was in the US Army, active duty, 19D (Cav Scout) for 4 years. Most soldiers never get more training than the 2 days of combatives they teach at BCT. My unit took combatives a little more seriously than most, and we would have a training session about once a month (unless we were on deployment or extended training). I estimate that in that 4 years, I learned about as much as a 1-stripe white belt in BJJ. After being out of the military for over 10 years, I just started BJJ about 8 months ago. I'm pretty confident that "pudgy mid-30s me with 8 months of BJJ" could absolutely whoop "fit early 20s me with 4 years of combatives" ass just about every time.
The only technique I learned in basic was a muzzle thump, which was just putting your weight behind your rifle and hitting them with the end. Logic being I was nearly 300lbs in full kit and the average enemy at the time was 125lbs it would be pretty effective. Otherwise we were always told any hand to hand encounter was just surviving and hoping your battle got there before theirs and could use their weapon. Once I got to proper army my lieutenant was a bjj purple belt and he would show us some stuff but it was never structured or that productive but it was fun PT.
@@ArmchairViolence fun cardio is probably a good portion of why bjj is still popular in the civilian world. I have no dreams of being a world champ but it's a fun way to stay in shape.
@@ArmchairViolence What if I leaned Combatives for protection from a Military trained personnel and on top of that the years of MMA I have under my belt I am a civilian so I feel like knowing both wouldn't be a bad idea. What is the thoughts on that?
@@tonyvillazana-harris6715 Combatives is mainly about having a soldier's mindset. For self-defense purposes, I don't think it would really add anything. You're better off using that same amount of time and money to just learn more MMA
If I remember correctly, this is the reason some countries still have some bayonet training. It's not really about learning to fight with a bayonet (you can find a jukendo dojo for that) but to instill that warriors ethos as you called it. Amazing that this topic still needs to be discussed, good video!
It's also a main goal of military combatives. Improve your warrior spirit, but in terms of real hand-to-hand combat that skills would be not very good (few basics is okay, but against more or less trained martial artists it won't help very much, in you would fight them hand-to-hand)
Did mcmap in the marines. Currently train in mma roughly 14 hrs a week. Mcmap isn’t really what people think. At this point, once you get to the fleet it’s honestly more of a physical activity that marines do to belt up, to make themselves look better as marines for various reasons like promotion boards etc. It also depends on the instructor, some instructors are good and focus on useful moves and make their students grapple and spar, other instructors just smoke their marines non-stop. Mcmap has useful things, it’s just not the best thing imo. But thats fine. The Marine corps SHOULD NOT CARE ABOUT THAT. The usmc needs to focus on training its people for their job and shooting a rifle effectively, not hand to hand combat.
Great video. The funny thing is often those people who are skilled in martial arts in the military are skilled because of the great overlap between the military and combat sports. Many soldiers will have learn combat sports prior to joining or in there free time and many militaries have internal boxing or wrestling competitions.
In Russia spec ops soldiers are skilled in certain martial arts, but mostly they gained that before they become Spec Ops. In the military their skills are wide, but hand-to-hand combat is quite pale in comparison to their civilian life
Yeah dude. Back on base we had a little cult of Air Force and Army that would always meet up and train. Every few weeks Marines would show up, lose, then say they gotta go lift weights but they’ll be back for sure. We didn’t let navy join cuz we were worried they’d get distracted by all the spandex.
Marine here. Mcmap lacks live resistance. We spar and when we do it's usually always full power with no real critique or purpose. Just aggression. All techniques are just taught with no resistance and applied for testing with no resistance. Then you get your belt. The hardest part is the physical training they make you do for mcmap.
Even military martial arts has some weird stuff, like disarming a soldier who already holds you at gunpoint or disarming a knife-weilding attacker with your bare hands. Even in real life combat situation that techniques would be very unlikely to perform, leave alone civilians.
Yep, I can add a couple reasons why they don't. My first PT I ran as a Corporal I had live wrestling as fun PT. Well, it was a little rough, you know how we get, and I broke my fucking leg. Now I believe more training maybe we could get better, however, that took me out of the fight for 5 months, and I got super lucky healing. It's a weird balance that's absolutely insane to get right. There will be casualties no matter what, even what little we do on a regular basis, but it'll be more if you go live. Granted, take with a grain of salt, I was a peacetime POG, this is just my observation.
As a Marine I can back up everything that this guy is saying. The combatives that I was taught in the Marine Corps are not things that I can use in civilian life. I was taught some basic restraints or either to break arms and or stomp the grape. The majority of my training came from impromptu spar sessions with other Marines. And this was back in the 90s so it's not accounting for how pussified the military has become since then. That's why I decided to study Jiu Jitsu and Muay Thai.
There are basically three versions of military hand to hand fighting. 1: Use your rifle or other object to smash your opponents face. 2: In a wrestling match, find your knife and use it. 3: Use numbers to subdue a guy and zip tie him
I didn't list them in any particular order. I merely pointed out the three main variants of military hand to hand combat. But you get top grades in being a keyboard warrior 😉😂
I believe that one of the biggest misconceptions comes from a wrong understanding of the public when it comes to combatives: combatives are usually shown in movies to be this be-all-end-all super realistic martial art which can quickly turn you into a badass warrior. It’s nothing like this in reality. The combative system in our military (military is mandatory by law here) was basically just primitive fighting skills so that we’re not completely helpless when our weapons are gone/broken (although the combative instructor literally said “let’s be brutally honest here: you’re royally fucked if this scenario ever happens”). Half of the training was bayonet fencing, the other was unarmed skills (wrestling, boxing and some Jiu-Jitsu) and disarming techniques (which probably don’t work. Like let’s be honest here. They only taught this to us to give us confidence, but I don’t believe for a second that this complicated stuff can be applied when you’re under stress and in a combat situation). We had like 12 hours combatives training in total, which is less training than many amateur boxers have per week. The idea that combatives can turn you into a killer machine is something which comes from 1980s and 1990s Hollywood action movies and it has very little to do with reality. In truth, combatives are just a collection of primitive hand-to-hand combat skills which you can easily and quickly learn and apply, but it doesn’t turn you into an undefeatable badass and it won’t make you into an expert for unarmed combat (but to be fair, they were never designed to do any of this). Many people are looking for an “easy and quick” way of becoming a good fighter, so it’s understandable that combatives (especially in the media) look very attractive to them.
When I watched outlander, I was expecting Claire to have some martial art training. I thought we were going to see a more(I saw more because WW2 was 8 decades ago) modern martial arts vs hand to hand combat in the 1700's but Claire didn't even have any hand-to-hand combat training. Jaime had to teach her. I looked online to see how realisc it would be for her to have no training, but people say it actually is since women weren't really trained in combat back then.
At best it's probably just as effective to take down the average person with zero training at best. An amateur in martial arts would fair way better. In Muay Thai training within 3 to 5 months you'll become quite a capable fighter. Some of these RUclips boxers probably have better boxing skills than military personnel.
@@pjsniper436 You're right! I think that people overestimate how important combatives are in the military. We learned more about how to thrust a bayonet into a sandsack than how to wrestle with opponents. I'm the first one who admits that most amateur boxers and MMA fighters have a better knowledge of hand to hand combat than your average soldier. Our best combatives guy was a dude who was an expert wrestler, he was regional master and easily dealt with our guys during sparring. But then again: comabtives are a miniscule part of military training, most militaries (as far as I know) don't even teach combatives anymore. They only show their soldiers how to shoot guns, clean guns, make beds and walk large distances and that's about it.
@@KentPetersonmoney I think that most Western people in the 1700s had little to no actual martial arts training. I think that fencing, wrestling and boxing were the only martial arts which existed back then (and most sources even state that the fencing masters of the time were quite terrible. The German Roux fencing dynasty criticized the "low quality of fencing" in most of their publications). I don't know if "Savate" existed back then, but if it did, then it was also available.
@@Shiresgammai my best friend enlisted in the royal marines and his unarmed combat training was very miniscule compared to actual fighters at a combat gym. I know this because I spar with him a lot when he visits weekly and although I already had a kyokushin and boxing background I started Muay Thai at around 19 years old at the time and just using my 6 months of Muay Thai training I was dominating in our sparring sessions (when he was on leave). I wouldn't want to mess with him armed though 😂
Did MCMAP in the Marine Corps, you have to already be a well versed martial artist to get much out of it. The belt ranks for the most part are checks in the box so I've seen people who can't fight with a fist or rifle go up in rank and I've also seen Marines who could fight in MMA not even care for it.
From what I understand MCMAP is basically a tool to create building blocks like: -agression -willingness to engage -ability to handle under stress -leadership -a competitive outlet for soldiers Wrestling and rolling around on the ground gives them some of the above tools which aids them in their military work. Up to a few hundred years ago melee combat was a key skill to win warfare and if you missed one spear stab or your sword cut did not instantly killed then you ended up in hand to hand combat. However today teamwork, communication, marksmanship etc and using technology etc is way more important.
This was good. Any martial art or fighting system is about context and the kind of force that is being used. In the UK, I think standard armed forces training barely bothers with hand to hand combat. Members of the UK military who practice martial arts are usually doing it for enjoyment or interest rather then because its required.
DUDE!!!!!!!!!!! There was an ad for Navy Seals martial arts as self-defense before the video. I had to pause the video because I couldn't breathe. IRONY!!!
I find it interesting how much military combatives have changed during my lifetime. I went through basic training in the winter of 1986. For hand to hand combat training, the majority we got was bayonet fighting, probably four or five days worth. Unarmed combat lessons consisted of one single session, we were told ‘Everybody knows how to punch. Punch the enemy in the face until he is stunned’ Once the enemy was stunned, we were shown a very basic, very shitty single leg takedown and told to soccer kick/stomp on the skull of the downed enemy ‘until you see brains’ And that was the full extent of our unarmed combatives instruction back then 😂
Sounds similar to our combatives education. The vast majority of combat training in most militaries seemingly consists mostly of bayonet fencing. Did you guys train chin jabs? They were omnipresent in our curriculum.
Military combative will give you an edge against civilians who don’t train if you practice. But a boxer or wrestler will beat you 10/10 times with several months of training lmao
It's important to keep in mind that if you're a civilian you are not in the military and vice versa. The requirements for the two lifestyles are vastly different, thus why many of my fellow veterans have such a hard time re-acclimatizing to civilian life when they get out of the military. It's odd that getting out due to a traumatic brain injury seems to have made it easier for me, I guess learning how to walk and talk again made the rest seem less significant.
@@malkomalkavian There isn't any other way to deal with life, you have to laugh in the devil's face just for the satisfaction of having done so. Even if it costs you an eternity of pain you can still say you did it.
I'm sure that the last few years of national stupidity involving the perception of TBIs haven't helped, but hopefully you aren't recommended too many new fad diets and yoga classes to "cure" your injury.
You are right. I have passed by some comments saying about tests in military martial art were so easy. I think the military martial art nowadays is different from that of the past. In the past, we did not have protective guards when testing and all tests were based on real warfare circumstances. In the school we were brainwashed to be not of civilians. Learning military practical martial arts is not available in the current world, I think. Mindset is much different. Being unconscious during the test is the very normal case.
Mate l saw you through Icey Mike and this video made me love you. I train with both vets and police officers, I asked them about their training and they said the training was shit compared to bjj or mma and all the things you listed...they said too. Also another thing to note is a lot of military combatives is mainly about creating space to draw a gun, or a dominant position to stab them, or that's a good focus in the training.
I remember when I was in Army bootcamp (long ago), we were doing hand-to-hand combat training. Some of the techniques looked kinda jinky, so I started showing my battle buddy some Muay Thai tools. The drill sergeant came over and started observing us. I was sure that he was going to smoke me for deviating from their lessons. But, instead he watched with approval.
Even if we ignored the different training methodolgy, it is obvious, that most military martial arts will focus on either restraining someone, or killing them. That misses giant aspects of civilian self defense. I'd rather have a good foot sweep, and 200 meter dash against a random drunk in a pub, then the ability to strangle him to death with his own entrails. Only one of those let me still be the good guy in the end. Restraining is more widely useful, but even then, it comes with caviates. If you know you'll have buddies coming in to zip tie the guy, there is no reason to sit in knee on belly, when you can go to side control. But in a civilian context, knee on belly is often more useful, cause it let's you disengage much faster, if you need to get away for some reason.
I learned this the hard way. I used to do combatives while I was in the Air Force Security Forces (Military Police). We just used the Army combatives program. I took a few years of Judo before I enlisted, and while I was in the mindset of "this is military martial arts, it must be good" I think what helped me do well in it and end up running the program for a while was because of the aggression learned in Judo. Since all the combatives stuff was relatively simple stuff skill wise, doing it with aggression made it effective. It wasn't until I got out and started doing Brazilian jiu-jitsu that I realized how silly it was. Yes, there was purpose for our training in the military. You hit it right on in the video. As MPs, we were either restraining somebody, or creating enough space in the fight to utilize our tools (baton, taser, sidearm, rifle). As a civilian, I continuously found myself in BJJ class losing all the time because I was trying to continue with that mindset of pinning and restraining someone, or creating the space to reset the fight. Changing the mindset was the most helpful advice I got from the instructor. This was an excellent video. Military martial arts work for what they're purposed for, but outside of that realm you need to greatly expand your training.
The main advantage of military training (whether armed or unarmed) is to give the soldier the right mental skills to dominate and win. It is the warrior ethos. Civilian martial arts don't necessarily give the same mental skills. As an example my son and I did karate for two years. Sadly his training ended when he slipped and fractured his femur and suffered a life threatening injury. I was on scene and immediately clicked into combat/rescue mode - analyze, organize and respond. The Senseis in contrast froze. I immediately organized first aid, analyzed where the best ingress and egress points were and called the EMS. I treated him with combat medicine skills and rode in the ambulance. I was ordering the Senseis what to do and used command and control methods I learnt in the military. My warrior ethos saved my son's life that day.
As someone who served in the Army, I can confirm that MACP is a joke. All the soldiers who are good at fighting are those who already train in wrestling, Jiu Jitsu, Judo, kickboxing, etc.
I have a buddy who was a Marine and trained mcmap and he explained to me the reason why there wasn’t that much groundwork was because it relays heavily on having knives and guns, that’s kinda why I feel most military H2H isn’t very effective. It relays on weapons as he said
Krav Maga is Self “Offense” and it must be employed in that way or it’s worthless along with any other martial art. In any defensive encounter (and unless you’re the bad guy that how they all start) you must immediately and with brutal, unwavering aggression, go on the offense to destroy their attack upon you and Krav Maga is perfect for that but if you don’t already have the proper mindset then nothing is going to save you and you can debate over which martial art is the best until you’re blue in the face.
When I was a white belt in BJJ abd had been studying for about 6 months, we had a guy join that was a level 3 army combatives instructor. He'd been in war, led mean in war, lost men in war. Was very fit, very aggressive, and had a no quit attitude. He also had no base so I got pretty good at the butterfly sweep and scissor sweep. After a couple of months though, he started beating me because he figured out base. But for those first couple of months, it was awesome. I did whatever I felt like. If we had to fight for real, he'd likely beat me just because of sheer will and real world experience of managing stress that I don't have. But on the mat, different story.
In a gym fight, sure a BJJ guy would defeat a trained military man, but take the fight to another ground and you will see that things change. Something I reproach those who practice BJJ is they believe that what happens in life is like what happens on the mat and they are wrong. A dude trained for lethal combat is an adversary worthy of respect and of whom one must be cautious.
@@lazarobabich6696 in a fight that involved weapons, he might have an edge. But hand to hand fighting is hand to hand fighting. I don't think BJJ is the end all be all of martial arts, but a person who has lots of training in hand to hand is going to have an advantage over someone who has some training in hand to hand (and not very good training)
@@jomess7879 It's not all about technique training. street smarts, homicidal instinct, cruelty and sadism, those things are not taught or learned in the mat and that is what will give you an advantage on the "street". And bjj is not technically superior to other styles such as Judo or collegiate wrestling. In fact, I practiced judo and then I practiced bjj and I understood that judo training is much harder and its technical repertoire is more abundant. I came to the conclusion that bjj is so popular and so practiced because it is relatively easy and accessible, it is practiced by housewives, grannies, even middle-aged Hollywood stars. Judo, and especially wrestling, cannot be practiced by everyone and demands a certain level of physical skill that is above the average person.
I disagree somewhat. Compared to civilians, military members a generally fitter (e.g. many people have difficulty performing more than ten push ups or jog 1.5 miles). Members tend to be more situationally aware, and generally fight more, many times among themselves, unfortunately. Again, a punch is a punch, a throw is a throw, a kick is a kick. WW2 era "defendu" is basically sound, imo, and is a good starting point for hand to hand, imo.
holy crap, at 67, i've been pondering, researching, all that for decades, and you just put it all into 9 frigging minutes! waddya think about the philippine Marine Force Recon ginunting, machete-sword, about 18'' blade? the older, larger, 1500s-1800s gurkha kukries, 15-18'' blades? the russian spetznaz 'axe' shovel?
Never served myself but I know a lot of guys from out the military, a good few train at my gym and one was a Black belt in Kickboxing before he even entered. They've all more or less said that the training is extremely basic and you don't spend a great deal of time on it. Because there's more important shit to worry about. The only people that came out of the military as bad arses with hand to hand combat, are those that joined a boxing or martial arts club while serving. You do get the odd lad with a bit of bravado that says the typical "Yeah but we learn dirty moves to end the fight quickly" but I honestly just put that down to how the fellow was taught and it probably makes sense to him in the context of what he's done. So I'm a tad more forgiving of people from the military saying that. Even if it's probably not dawned on them that the person with far more experience in H2H combat is likely going to create such a large skill gap that will render any cheap moves laughably ineffective (outside of making him mad) without a massive amount of luck on his hands. When fellows that haven't served say that shit I'm a tad more like "No, you weren't, you've been sold bullshit by a charlatan and you're probably going to get yourself killed".
Yeah, I can see how it is more forgivable coming from military guys. Obviously, they're WAY too confident in their dirty moves, but going ballistic with dirty moves is a MUCH better idea in a battlefield context. Especially when you just want to make the guy mentally reset so that you can get to an actual weapon. They learned stuff that's fairly valid in warfare, and would get them beat up or thrown in prison in any other context lol
@@ArmchairViolence I guess it's just a tad more understandable. Like even if he's not entirely correct, I can see why he'd think that due to the context of which he's learned. He has kind of learned to kill people fast and quick with his bare hands using dirty moves and tactics. Because that's the whole point and context of his training. He may not really know much better outside of that. Though outside of the training he's received in the military, he may have absolutely no interest in martial arts beyond that point, because it's just what they've learned for that specific scenario. So could be understandably ignorant of the concept of skill gaps between his own learning and that of a professional fighter. He's likely parroting the words that have been laid into him through out training, which would have instilled an attitude (rather than actual technical prowess) that could have saved his life out in the field. That I get. Again, he's not entirely right but not to the point I'd roll my eyes at. Him thinking that would have served purpose in and area it needed to. Which is a great deal different to some fellow whose taken up at his local Krav or combative gym, saying "I learn moves that are going to end you quickly, moves that are deadly and ignore the rules". You're in a relatively safe civilian context (as such is myself) you're learning some set patterns to make you feel a little better and maybe some watered down martial arts to go along with it. This isn't something that's been instilled upon you with the attitude that you may actually have to kill someone. This is something you've taken up as a bit of an hobby, you've gone out of your way to go to this place because it sells an easier story to you, than going to a place where you may have to spar and possibly fight in order to earn any prestige or respect from the system. I guess to boil it down. The military fellow actually believes it. While the lad at your standard combative gym, is just saying it to make himself feel better. Which (even if the results would be the same when going up a far better trained opponent) lends more credit and credibility to the militarymen.
@@Sovvolf A hail mary gouge or bite also makes a lot more sense when the other guy is trying to gut you with a knife or make you a POW in a dog kennel for two years too.
@@Sovvolf yep, if someone ahs a set pattern for dirty moves it usually isn't a good sign. The closest thing to functional dirty moves is just improvised weaponry and even then, there needs to be some level of surprise or hindrance or nothing is going to happen. Like throwing a rock at someone, or throwing a bin lid at someone, or throwing a whole bag of medium-heavy garbage or getting the guy to punch a wall or kick a metal pole, or preventing or instigating a box in. Those might help but you still need to stomp the fella into the concrete using, well, stomps, punches, grappling. Street fighting makes you more aggressive in general and teaches basic martial art skills like a jack of some trades with a LOT of environmental awareness. But in a professional setting it doesn't really apply cause there's no big differance in terrain, no wall to take advantage of, no need to go apeshit to survive or a randomly placed dangerous rock. Dirty fighting works to an extent but not as well as people think it does.
Military hand-to-hand is used as a last resort. It's more beneficial to spend the limited training time on using the rifle & getting soldiers to be as lethal as possible with a rifle.
Although several updates could be made to many military combatives programs, I think their biggest issues is they aren't trained Regularly. The few course I did were basically 2 weeks and everyday we trained for 4+ hours and got our belts. Then proceeded to not see it again for a year or more. How it was Designed to be taught, (at least in the Marine Corps) was that you'd mix it in with morning PT. You'd alternate days of combatives training and your conditioning would be on the other days. That way you could actually get around 3 to 5 hours a week training techniques and sparring IS SUPPOSED to be apart of it. So if done right, we'll say a 4 year contract for a Marine is the standard, rounding down to 48 weeks in the year for misc. things, minus two 7 month deployments, that comes out to 136 weeks of training, at 3 hours a week that should come out to 408 hours of training after 4 years. So that should give you a decent amount of combatives training and proficiency after just your 1st contract without drastically effecting regular training time. Especially if you limit your curriculum to basic striking (muay thai based), basic clinch work, a few Judo throws, and some fundamental BJJ, and some weapons techniques. I think I COULD work, just not the way they're done now. Great video!
Points are well made. Constantly see videos of people teaching while wearing combat pants etc. Krav guys especially play on this military theme. I also see this a lot when it comes to people showing or talking about using a blade.
Okay, for the first laugh - I do Krav Maga in Europe. I get the logic behind that stuff. But is not that of a big deal to adapt stuff to another function especially if the technique is easy. So if you have limited time (about 3 hours a week), you are in your 40', do not want to go to work like the guy in fight club (movie), want to be (a tiny bit) better prepared to self defence situations like seen on CCTV and do not want to roll around on the floor all day what is wrong with it? You learn to have a better awareness, have easy techniques which work under high stress AND you have to be aggressive and go forward... wait...maybe it is not much diffrent from the things this guy mentioned in the video. But I have to say, that it is not that old school krav maga more a blend of krav, urban combatives and even s.p.e.a.r but that is not very important for the story. 5:15 Why learn a combat sport if you have to be defensive and how many hours of training deescalation do you do in a month in bjj? If you only in defence mode and do not be proactive at a certain point at a violent encounter it will be very hard because the very first punch often times is enough...so make sure you are guy who throws it.
I went to army boot camp a few years before they introduced the stress card. Granted, different bases may have done things slightly different but company had 2 drill sergeants who were former rangers. Our hand to hand combat training was one day consisting of 2hr ruck march followed by 2hr training session. During the training, we were shown a palm heel strike, a hammer strike and a break fall. We were then told that we were killing machines.
Hi. (Excuse my bad English - I'm swedish). First and foremost - thank you very much for this video clip. It is highly educational aswell as entertaining. Please keep up your good work! However - I just wanted to add a couple of tidbits of knowledge to your video, if I may. Military marial arts/hand to hand combat training/combatives - are all developed to work (in best case) - or at least be efficient enough - when carrying weapons, tactical gear such as helmet, load bearing vests, rucksacks etc. This equipment is both heavy and bulky and makes it cumbersome to move for the soldier. Of course - since most people dont have to carry these things in a typical civilian life - the techniques of fighting in them has little to no bearing on civilian self defence. In sweden - there was (until I was in my twenties) mandatory conscription, requiring everyone to do (approximately - and depending on your individual station) a year of military service. Back then - ALL "infantry" personel and combat pilots had various degrees of combatives-training. And to a higher extent (I presume) than a GI Grunt - since our conscription time was longer than just a few weeks of basic training (as in the USA)? However - in the 90's - most of this "combatives"-training was centered around different versions of Jiu Jitsu techniques, and mostly to either 1) protect yourself during watch duty and/or surveillance missions or 2) to "silently dispose of sentries". Most soldiers got the "self protection"/"self defence"-portion of it (which included stuff like using your rifle with a bayonet, as a spear, as a club/baton and/or several locking and grappling techniques to restrain (an unarmed) intruder. Ranger units, recon units and combat pilots, however - also got the "silent killing" portion of the training. Today - this training has been dramatically downsized (in Sweden) and drawing less and less from Martial Arts like Jiu Jitsu - and more from other "military combatives" such as different versions of Krav Maga. I found this video - showing some of the techniques we were trained in in the 90's (the footage is from a part of an "instructional" video from my "old home regiment" - and filmed (originally) in the mid 90's. ruclips.net/video/eNZF6IwTC24/видео.html I don't say that this is more "efficient" for "civilian self defence" than any comercial Martial art - just that "things have changed" and that "in the Swedish military - at least - we have gotten less and less time to train "combatives" - which used to be a longer program here (than in the US).
Were you guys in training for the whole year? In the US, we have 2 year contracts but the training is still only a few months. I would be surprised if they had you guys in training for that much of your conscription. The Swedish military probably realized that most of their fancy combatives moves weren't actually useful to anyone, so they cut them out. Then they just copied countries that have well-known combatives programs. Honestly, for a smaller military that's trying to be efficient, that's not a bad idea.
@@ArmchairViolence yes. Basic training was 10-15 months. After that - you could (for example) apply for service abroad (as in peace keeping missons and such). Or - you were ”re-drafted” for training exercises every two-three years for ”repetition training”. To keep the skills. Every such ”repetition” was usually a month. Your (civilisn) employer had to ”lend” you for military service when the defence called for your service (as in repetitions or service abroad or the like).
Another good video, your takes on martial arts are always well reasoned. I was curious about your thoughts on something. I recently started BJJ and noticed some of the positions that are taught leave one vulnerable to strikes, and that defence against strikes is (somewhat) neglected in the training. What are your thoughts on that, and if combat Jiu Jitsu could be a more practical alternative? Thanks
They might be teaching a more sport BJJ approach. What they teach more of often depends on the gym. If you want to learn striking defense, here are some things you can do... 1. Ask your instructor. They were probably taught some defenses that they don't focus on that much, and would be happy to show them to you if you ask. 2. Roll with light punches. This will help you weed out what moves work against strikes and which don't without hurting each other. Make sure you clear it with your instructor first, but most instructors would allow it. You just need a partner that also wants to practice strikes. 3. Limit yourself to the moves and strategies that DO work against strikes. This will prevent you from spending too much time on the super cool positions that don't work in an actual fight. Ultimately, even if your gym teaches a sport version, there are ways for you to alter your personal training to specialize in anything you want!
They are not effective because their training revolves around weapon usage. Your goal if you get jumped in close quarters is to keep from getting tied up so you can point your rifle at the assailant. Or your knife. Detaining someone or taking a prisoner of war isn't difficult, it typically happens after the battle is concluded and the detainees see resistance as fruitless. As a civilian these techniques are useless. You cannot carry a firearm around legally unless you live in Israel or specific provinces/regions. You are limited to home defense when it comes to firearms. That is different from battlefield tactics and calls for a different set of skills yet again.
The only thing I have to correct you on is something that actually helps your point. Marines need 150 hours to be a BLACK BELT instructor. They can become a lower level instructor with just 77 hours. Which yeah, would be a laughably small amount of time to get any kind of instructor certification at even the worst McDojos.
fully agreed, im a UK Veteran, the number of times people say to me I would hate to fight you as you are military trained. I would always think thank fook, I hate getting punched it's why I had a rifle.
I was a black belt 🥋 at 8 count body builders by the time I left Great Lakes. But seriously in the few fights I got in wrestling was all I did. All I did was clinch up and use athleticism.
Ming dynasty martial arts were 100 days for empty hand. The bulks was formation and weapons etc. Once the colt revolver hit the scene in the 1850s styles and forms exploded. The primary weapons were bows and spears. Empty hand techniques were similar to Fairbanks, one flow motion like a figure 8 with lots of potential applications that can be used while in the red zone with little thought. The more you know, the slower your reaction time (Hick's law). Styles have to be as limited as possible for their intended purpose if they are to be useful.
I came into the Marines straight from high school wrestling. I'm a total scrub in reality but was a GOD there because I know a double and have a gnarly high crotch.
The military should honestly recruit straight from wrestling programs. Wrestlers are already fit, they're already taught aggression, and they're already WAY better at combatives than the instructors are! 😆
@@ArmchairViolence Spot on as usual. I actually got to see a hand-to-hand exchange when I was attached to 3rd Recon. I was spotting for one of our tracking dogs, handler moves into the last known location given by locals. NO ONE SEARCHED IT. Homie cracked open the door and the dude pulled him in. Dog stuck on outside freaking the fuck out 2 people get bit trying to open the door. Before we can get the door open, dude stabbed him 9 TIMES in the neck. Its like Ryan Hoover has mentioned a few times, you can't always use a gun or your primary. Carrying a knife brought his chances of survival up 100%. crazy.
@@DogScience Good! That's actually an excellent example of how CQB should be handled! Get to any weapon you can and go 100% pure offense. Good job by your buddy!
I will forever stand by a fight with rules being a sport and not a real fight, but it doesn't mean it won't help in a real fight where you gotta defend yourself
Hey buddy love the content I have a question. I’ve gotten into heated debates with many people about who would win in a street fight, a trained military man i.e. Green Beret/navy seal or A trained professional combat sports champion. They usually say the military person because they are trying to kill and train for a sport. I always rebuttal with if Jon Jones wanted to kill you…. he can…. Thoughts?
They teach BJJ as combatives at most military installations. It's an afterwork activity and entirely voluntary. The military also goes to the range around 2-4 times a year (if they're not Cav or Crunchies), and they spend an average of less than 100rds per soldier to qualify, so weapons proficiency isn't great either. Training to go to Iraq was 3 weeks too. Thankfully, we had Cinnabon at Speicher, so my combat skills were between bench press and cinnamon goop. Love the channel.
I cannot speak for other branches but in the Marines we only very briefly did stuff like that, we were mostly coordinating firepower, which is foremost, even in infantry.
The combative class I learned for a years was the basic ground game, trips, throws, and slams. Until the end where we learn some war time fighting where we learned how to crush the throat, take out the eyes, and go for the groin. That was off the books😅.
My best friend served with the 1st Ranger Battalion. He confirmed that the fundamental MACP certification they received was pretty ass. SOCP was decidedly better, but specialized in such a way that it really isn't applicable to 99% of civilian self-defense or sporting scenarios. However, what really got my attention is how he talked about Combatives sparring in the Regiment being decidedly different once he got to the Regiment, meaning he got his ass kicked a lot more often. The 75th being what it is, it attracts a lot of athletic, competitive, Type A personalities. A lot of those personalities had backgrounds in martial arts prior to enlisting: state champion wrestlers, amateur boxers, BJJ Blue Belts, Black Belts in TKD or various forms of karate, one of his buddies had even trained pretty extensively in Filipino martial arts. In other words, the guys who could handle themselves were the ones who actually knew how to fight thanks to the training they had received from other sources. The same goes for ex-Combatives Tournament champions who have gone on to become successful UFC veterans like Tim Kennedy and Neil Magny. Tim had been training & competing in various martial arts since childhood. Magny was a high school wrestler who started BJJ at 17 years old, followed by kickboxing and continued his MMA training while he was in the Army. Brian Stann is the only military veteran who was in the UFC that didn't have a preexisting martial arts background, but even he started training heavily in MMA on his own time after the Marine Corps exposed him to it. It's not like MCMAP got him to the big leagues. But I digress. The quality of military combatives systems varies wildly depending on unit, individual instructor, training rotation, etc. Sometimes they're pretty good, sometimes they're terrible. But even with the best of them it's important to keep them in context and remember what they're actually there to do: -- Act as a form of physical conditioning/exercise. -- Act as a form of mental conditioning. In other words: toughening up and instilling aggression into a bunch of nineteen-year-old kids, the majority of which have never been directly exposed to physical violence in their lifetime. -- Provide a *very* basic and fundamental baseline of techniques for troops to fall back on in the already unlikely situation that they find themselves in a hand-to-hand encounter on the modern battlefield. No idea why any civilian would ever willingly go out of their way to pursue such systems when they would get vastly more mileage out of visiting their local MMA gym and maybe mixing in some other specialized training that's available to them (Craig Douglas or Ryan Hoover's stuff, etc.)
That does make me wonder what sort of martial arts is best suited for someone who carries a handgun on a daily basis. I have learned how to draw my gun (and always carry chambered), how to shoot the gun decently, and some basic weapon retention techniques. I wonder if there’s anything else worth learning there in terms of unarmed martial arts (obviously, learning gunfighting techniques is my main “martial art”).
I am surprised I didn't find more negative reactions below! But the truth often upsets people. The one thing I appreciated is the little comment that Krav Maga hasn't been self-defense for nearly 70 years. And let's face it, it is more widely known due to marketing. Most don't know it was Imi Lichtenfeld's personal experiences and training distilled for quick distribution to the Jewish community that was being persecuted in Bratislava, and his father was a police officer that owned a gym and also taught self-defense there. So it started out for civilians and morphed into paramilitary training when he migrated to Palestine. I think the only weapon defenses were knife and club, which you would expect to encounter from thugs, and the rest were added as needed. It was always meant to be modified for need, and following his theory, if not used by the military it should be more about legal responses for a civilian. On the other hand, Israel is constantly in a state of belligerence with its neighbors, and even with some of its population, so the chances of needing deadly force as opposed to a more sporting aspect are higher. That is, they are more likely to face what a soldier would than somebody in Texas. Sure, it's appealing. Who wouldn't like to feel as if you are learning some sort of Special Forces uber training? Wearing camo instead of a gi would feel more modern and tacticool, and you could bash those that 'play sports' and not real hardcore reality killer stuff. So thanks for being real, but not for ruining the fun of being a poser in 511s. Now go rain on somebody else's parade.
Military martial arts aren’t useless due to a different purpose. They are useless because they are there as a quota. In basic training or boot camp you get ONE DAY of hand to hand training and it’s a stretch to call it training. It’s a few compliance drills, making guys wrestle without any teaching them just telling them “do it” and maybe having them hit something. That’s it. One day... not enough to retain anything. The rest of the time they are doing map reading, basic first aid, running, map reading, weapons (mainly a rifle), sleep deprivation to become more susceptible to orders, and being yelled at. The military has martial Arts programs for appearances... not for use.
Yeah, that's probably fair, in a lot of cases. Although, telling people to "do it" isn't nearly as bad if all you care about is building aggression. But I can see how it might be a stretch to call that a "martial arts program."
@@ArmchairViolence building aggression is absolutely helpful. But every vet friend of mine didn’t know the first thing about wrestling or position so they’d rush in to grab you and didn’t really know what to do from there. It’s basically like doing wrestling in a PE class. No one knows what they are doing because they aren’t taught. You need aggression with actual instruction. The military simply doesn’t care because their goal was never hand to hand. They just want to make the receipts miserable so they listen better for moral and feel tough so the fear is down. Then 80% of them go on to non combat jobs. That’s the reality of the military. Every since Vietnam ended… majority of vets since haven’t seen much or any combat. Especially in the past 25 years.
Basic training combatives isn't where it ends. When I was in the 101st airborne in an infantry company they trained in combatives every week. There is a special combatives class that teaches BJJ, Judo and boxing. After the class the troops will continue to practice multiple days per week for years. I worked with a guy who lost his rank because he punched another guy in the face once and he needed facial reconstruction surgery. I would say he knew self defense very well. Also, in every war the enemy has used human wave tactics to overwhelm our troops. If you're on the ground grappling when 10 enemy soldiers come at you then you're going to be dead. All that's needed to neutralize anyone who practices BJJ is a knife or handgun. 99% of people who practice BJJ aren't stupid enough to try and grapple a person holding a knife or handgun. The ones who do try it will most likely be dead or seriously injured. SAS teaches that your environment is a weapon. Even if someone doesn't have a weapon on them it doesn't mean something sharp and pointy isn't nearby they can use to stab and slice with. Real fighting doesn't have rules.
In the 1980's when I was in the US Army as an M1 Tanker, they didn't train much hand to hand. I was instead encouraged to get better all around physically, and golden gloves/amateur boxing.
Like I said in a previous comment, my first PT I ran as a Corporal I thought I'd be just a silly billy and run a live wrestling PT under a MCMAP instructor. I broke my damn leg. It's more about being able to get rifles into a fight than more people realize. Maybe there's a balance between being able to mess people up in a hand to hand manner and being able to keep your Marines safe, and it's a hard divide.
According to Army doctrine plan B in all your sceneries is going to be a buttstroke. Bonus points if you got enough training to allow you to not cave in someones skull if you're just trying to restrain them.
No matter what style you’re learning whether it’s in the military or in a studio at a shopping mall it comes down to the fighter himself and how much he practices and puts in to his art all the styles taught to the military are good styles whether or not they had time to learn everything before battle is a whole other subject the style itself the art is good, This is my take on it I’ve seen people with no training fight better than those with training it always comes down to the fighter all styles are good
truest ! Routine practices create the instinctive reaction to the situation where the application is required. 30 years continuously without a day to rest, (unless being admitted in the hospital) I still keep jogging 5- 10 km. a day with the ankle weights of 5 pounds each, in addition to pushing up anytime during the day when the time allows me to do. I have been in street fights by accident and I do not have fear of fighting a professional fighter, if inevitably.
I’ve had an opportunity to spar a marine in boxing and needless to say ur very spot on. They are on the level of an early beginner. The person I sparred didn’t clam up and kept moving forward and attacked.
In feudal Japan they loved the gun as even the worst soldier with absolutely no knack for combat whatsoever could be easily trained with a firearm to best the greatest warrior with a traditional weapon and needless to say unarmed... This is more the mentality of modern militaries meaning more emphasis on range combat meaning close quarters combat and hand-to-hand will inevitably suffer
There's a reason why a huge part of combatives is pugil sticks. It simulates rushing an opponent and violently beating them with you rifle, which is basically a metal club at that point.
A really cynical take would be that teaching barehanded knife/gun disarms instills enough confidence in a soldier to try it rather than be captured because a dead soldier is cheaper than a live POW. A less cynical take is that a few well armed people can often control a much larger unarmed group only because the individuals are too scared to attack together. convince your soldiers that they are so badass they can just rip the guns away and someone is more likely to start the snowball that results in the captives overrunning their captors. probably the best take is that even for a well trained person an untrained savage brute takes longer to deal with than a timid individual and that time difference can be the difference between the job being finished or the guys friends showing up.
Preach! I’ve said the same thing before, difference is, I’m a no body so no one listens lol. Only other point I would have brought up is, as far as using military training for self defense against things like knives, that would be a decent idea. As you said, that is the type of situations they train for, and not that any other martial arts doesn’t offer the same studies, just saying lol
My platoon commander, back in USMC OCS straight up said that MCMAP is more of a summary training regiment. I'm still excited to learn it, but from what i gathered a lot of it will be review with a change in mentality. (For context i have been doing different traditonal and modern martial arts for 20 years now)
we are at the 2 minute mark and you bring up a point I've always brought up when people put down traditional arts and self defense against weapons. These are are actually based in military applications where the first choice is a weapon and the weapons attacks are for armored people. The modern slash and grab of modern attacks attack is different than the stab to kill thru your padded coat that tradition defense is based on.
I have a video request. What are your thoughts on Self Defense BJJ, or the Gracie Self Defense Curriculum? A "sport" bjj vs "self defense" bjj argument.
I haven't looked at their specific curriculum super closely, but I doubt its any better than the MMA version of BJJ. Both of them are just going to be "BJJ with strikes." Selling it as a better version of self-defense is just a marketing gimmick. The stuff Rener and Ryron sell isn't any better than the rest of BJJ, and it's often worse. They just market their stuff better.
The fact that military hand-to-hand techniques are a low priority means that they are designed to be simple and learned quickly and easily. That makes them pretty good for civilians who want to pick up some basics quickly and don't have a lot of time to devote to martial arts.
Very impressive breakdown on the topic, dude. You nailed all the biggest points. Even when I was in the Marine Corps, we used to joke that you knew someone was admin when they were a black belt. It really is one of the least needed skills in a combat zone. I largely disagree about the idea that MMA and boxing aren’t sports though. Does it help more so in civilian uses? Absolutely, but I still think it serves niche cases. The first reason is size and strength will win most fights. Yes, a smaller and weaker fighter who is very proficient can beat a bigger and stronger opponent. But your average person or even fighter doesn't have that level of skill. But the best skill set you can have is being good with firearms, even as a civilian. The best thing you can learn from BJJ or other combat sports is how to get an attacker off you and create enough distance to arm yourself. Firearms or any weapon really will always beat your combat sports skill set. Really, I see MMA and boxing being good for when you have to deal with a dick who wants to fight but doesn’t want to kill you or seriously hurt you. Even then, I would recommend most people simply not engage if you can; it’s just not worth the risk that can come from it.
The USMC does pugil stick training (and so did the FBI, back in the Hoover decades) not so much as bayonet training, but as a means of both instilling fighting spirit AND to learn how to take painful impact and keep on fighting. In fact, one of valuable aspects of pugils, is the movements are so divorced from actual armed or unarmed movements, no bad habits are formed.
I would feel safer fighting a MCMAP blackbelt than someone with like 3 months of muay thai or wrestling
Even an amateur boxer could be way dangerous than combatives "master".
A MCMAP black belt probably only has 3 months training tbh
LOL well if to earn a black belt on any of those systems takes as much time as a regular black belt that regular systems, I wouldn't but if it's different then I agree
Most MCMAP Black belts would agree with you (though to tbh, a quick poll of the ones I know shows that most of them have been training in something else for quite some time.)
Saying they dont get self defense training is just wrong, especially in the case of marines they train control and restraint as they are employed in crowd control and law enforcement situations.
A good case study of this is a book written in 1400 by a knight who made money teaching others how to fight, covering basically everything you need to know about melee fighting, from unarmed combat to fighting from horseback. Unarmed combat is limited to grapples, because everyone has a dagger on them at all times, there is no ground fighting because if someone throws you on the ground and has a dagger, mace or pollaxe, you're better off honorably surrendering and most of the techniques there are the ones that also work when you're wearing 30 kilos of plate armor, because that's how you will fight as a knight most often.
Trying to take that unarmed system, calling it a complete martial art and trying to claim it works in modern self defense context would be very silly indeed. Did I mention that what is now tai chi started out as Chinese military unarmed fighting techniques, that were explicitly noted to be not that useful for soldiers at the time (16th century treatise by general Qi Jiguang) on account of having a spear?
Amen to this, there are no "complete" martial arts left, only aspects.
whats the book title?
What about Jujutsu? Samurai practised ground fighting and would of met similar battlefield challenges to a knight.
>when you're wearing 30 kilos of plate armor, because that's how you will fight as a knight most often.
Most of what you say is good - but this is junk. Plate armour for combat was typically more 30lbs, not kg. You can literally turn somersaults in it. (You can find videos of people literally doing this on RUclips.) Modern soldiers often carry a heavier combat load, and it’s not as well distributed.
@@TheGreatAmphibian The very late full plate armor you see in 1500-1600 era was 15-20 kg range, the 1400 plate armor with full chain mail shirt under the partial plates with bascinets on top was in the 30-50 kg range (although the top of that range may have been specialized tourney armor, since this is the period when we start to see these crop up).
Seeing as I was referencing treatises in 1400-1420 period, the weight of this armor is 30 kilos.
That's why people say military can't fight, but its that we train for a whole different fight, based in weapons. Hand to hand is mostly useless in a War, fighting as a Team.
I trained with a guy who was a Ranger and basically the only thing he'd gotten out of MACP that helped him in the studio was the super basic BJJ they taught him. He was good enough at some really simple stuff to not panic if he ended up on the ground but he wasn't gonna beat anybody that'd been there for 3 months. You hit the nail on the head with this video!
You all keep comparing them to trained fighters. 90 percent of civilians are not trained so you will be fighting an unskilled fighter in the street. Any training will be better than their no training.
@@dereksmith6097 I didn't. The only thing separating my friend from a untrained guy was basically a mount escape. I agree any training is better than none but the point is that the military martial arts aren't good for civilians because there's no upward mobility after getting a tiny bit good at stuff.
@@dereksmith6097 anybody who fights on the street is not going to be an average civilian.
I was a weak ass child fighting people years older than me but what let me get this in was a focus and anger that 'civilians' didn't have.
I was out of a bad home angry and there were others like me and we were all angry enough to not care about our own well being or the other guy's.
Because of that lack of care we were good at it, competent even.
That makes for dangerous men and street fighting isn't like regular fighting.
An amateur boxer got Ko'd cause a buddy threw a dustbin lid at him and slapped his head into a wall.
A karateka couldn't kick because he wasn't aware of his surroundings and bruised his foot on a metal pole.
A bjj practicioner got floored by a simple throw on concrete.
'Average civilian'.
If somebody wants to rob you they probably aren't average my dude.
@@championboy4782 So what you are saying is even if you spend years learning martial arts an untrained thug with aggression and bad intentions can mess you up quickly?
Thank you, I think the overconfident MMA guys need to hear this.
I hope you are in a better environment now btw.
@@grayscarab5784 Your deduction is on point.
People, even MMA enthusiasts, underestimate the importance of mindset when it comes to both self defense and combat sports.
Men like Mohammed Ali and Mike Tyson hired people to get beat up, not to spar, just to take punches so they could get used to the feel of hurting someone. Those two lived breathed boxing but still needed a consistent push to get the extra agression, the desire and determination to beat the opponent down.
Normal 'citizens' flinch and hesitate when fighting, especially trained individuals. Even if they have the power to end the fight early, most times that flinch or lack of power draws out the fight.
Not to even mention the absolute lack of environmental awareness people have these days. MMA guys focused too much on the person infront of them than the ground under their feet, a guy tried to slide on the pitch, his shins paid a dire price.
One guy tripped over a jutting pipe, another closelined himself while shuffling back. Wish we had phones during those days.
Ah yes, third world poverty.
The classic situation usually looks like this:
The fella's stamina flags, stance becomes detrimental, moves sluggish and dodges almost impossible in the environment, while the angry African boy growls, coughs and grins through bloodied teeth like he's having the the best meal of his life.
The civilian flinches and slowly loses themsleves to fear and instinct, training literally fleeing due to a lack of mental composure. If they've trained religiously they'll be able to use max three techniques from this point on and they'll be less effective due to overclocking earlier in the fight.
That flinch leads to the examples in the end of my last comment.
Pro tip: Street fighters don't have the best endurance but what allows them to outlast is their economy of movement and composure.
From he moment they attack a civilian panics and dodges way farther than necessary, natural fear comes with bare fists so they Bob and weave more than necessary, rendering their own endurance advantage almost moot.
Training helps if one must fight, but I'd advise anyone to not mistake possibility for reality.
The reality is that if someone wants to hurt you, almost nothing will stop them from hurting you so just give them your damned wallet already.
Also, thanks for the well wish. I moved on from that crowd, joined some in-school study groups and worked from there. Moving through the tail end of University, even got a small job working a clinic for some extra money.
I'm honestly shocked I even got into a university, best day of my life. Parents were, proud for the first time.
It's nice now.
My brother's in the marines, and he's hyper aware that he doesn't belong in a cage
Yeah, assuming a "basic warrior stance" is the physical manifestation of a white belt.
But a civilian fight is not equivalent to the cage and most street fighters cannot really fight, so his killer instinct and training would make him formidable.
@@dereksmith6097
Obviously some training is always better than nothing.
Yeah already just how tiny bit of the training is fighting its pretty much impossible to be good at it even if their system would be good. You always hear some guy going like commandos using Fairbairn method would be so deadly against mma guy or something, but its just not simply true. Even listening actual commandos from ww2 talking about unarmed/melee fighting you pretty quickly realize they got trained more mindset, and psycholigically to be able for example stab someone to death than spending massive amounts of time actually learning to fight. People just think that agressive language they use, and simple techniques in manuals means they would be actually good, but its more like that ultra aggression is scary to the other random youngster that got just recruited of the street on the opposing side. Generally beginners been offensive, and agressive Will not end well if they happen to get up against guy who has had lets say years of actual martial arts training even something like boxing or wrestling. Your marine bro is likely way deadlier than average joe, but mainly with gun, and by staying cool under stress.
@@dereksmith6097 Facts! I remember seeing a video from a couple of months ago, of a group of Marines getting into it with some street dudes/tough guys/thugs. The Marines REALLY wrecked shop, and one of the Marines drove a dude into the concrete and just started pummeling him.
Was in the US Army, active duty, 19D (Cav Scout) for 4 years. Most soldiers never get more training than the 2 days of combatives they teach at BCT. My unit took combatives a little more seriously than most, and we would have a training session about once a month (unless we were on deployment or extended training).
I estimate that in that 4 years, I learned about as much as a 1-stripe white belt in BJJ. After being out of the military for over 10 years, I just started BJJ about 8 months ago. I'm pretty confident that "pudgy mid-30s me with 8 months of BJJ" could absolutely whoop "fit early 20s me with 4 years of combatives" ass just about every time.
Not if it was 20s you with a knife or handgun.
@@rwdchannel2901 I don't think anyone argued against that though
If you ain't Cav ............
The only technique I learned in basic was a muzzle thump, which was just putting your weight behind your rifle and hitting them with the end. Logic being I was nearly 300lbs in full kit and the average enemy at the time was 125lbs it would be pretty effective. Otherwise we were always told any hand to hand encounter was just surviving and hoping your battle got there before theirs and could use their weapon. Once I got to proper army my lieutenant was a bjj purple belt and he would show us some stuff but it was never structured or that productive but it was fun PT.
"Fun PT" is also a valid reason why the military has combatives lol
@@ArmchairViolence fun cardio is probably a good portion of why bjj is still popular in the civilian world. I have no dreams of being a world champ but it's a fun way to stay in shape.
Yea people don't realize your fighting in a load of gear, not NO GI.
@@ArmchairViolence What if I leaned Combatives for protection from a Military trained personnel and on top of that the years of MMA I have under my belt I am a civilian so I feel like knowing both wouldn't be a bad idea. What is the thoughts on that?
@@tonyvillazana-harris6715 Combatives is mainly about having a soldier's mindset. For self-defense purposes, I don't think it would really add anything. You're better off using that same amount of time and money to just learn more MMA
If I remember correctly, this is the reason some countries still have some bayonet training. It's not really about learning to fight with a bayonet (you can find a jukendo dojo for that) but to instill that warriors ethos as you called it.
Amazing that this topic still needs to be discussed, good video!
It's also a main goal of military combatives. Improve your warrior spirit, but in terms of real hand-to-hand combat that skills would be not very good (few basics is okay, but against more or less trained martial artists it won't help very much, in you would fight them hand-to-hand)
Also, stabbing someone with a bayonet and bashing your barrel into their face if you gun jams are pretty similar skill sets.
Did mcmap in the marines.
Currently train in mma roughly 14 hrs a week.
Mcmap isn’t really what people think. At this point, once you get to the fleet it’s honestly more of a physical activity that marines do to belt up, to make themselves look better as marines for various reasons like promotion boards etc. It also depends on the instructor, some instructors are good and focus on useful moves and make their students grapple and spar, other instructors just smoke their marines non-stop. Mcmap has useful things, it’s just not the best thing imo. But thats fine. The Marine corps SHOULD NOT CARE ABOUT THAT. The usmc needs to focus on training its people for their job and shooting a rifle effectively, not hand to hand combat.
If you have a perfect arm-bar but you can't shoot you are bad soldier.
Great video. The funny thing is often those people who are skilled in martial arts in the military are skilled because of the great overlap between the military and combat sports. Many soldiers will have learn combat sports prior to joining or in there free time and many militaries have internal boxing or wrestling competitions.
The US rangers used to have full contact MMA sparring at camp, however I heard they changed it to grappling because someone died.
In Russia spec ops soldiers are skilled in certain martial arts, but mostly they gained that before they become Spec Ops. In the military their skills are wide, but hand-to-hand combat is quite pale in comparison to their civilian life
Yeah dude. Back on base we had a little cult of Air Force and Army that would always meet up and train. Every few weeks Marines would show up, lose, then say they gotta go lift weights but they’ll be back for sure.
We didn’t let navy join cuz we were worried they’d get distracted by all the spandex.
@@dixonbuttes understandable fear
Nah, you were worried you might like the navy boys grappling with you 😂
Marine here. Mcmap lacks live resistance. We spar and when we do it's usually always full power with no real critique or purpose. Just aggression. All techniques are just taught with no resistance and applied for testing with no resistance. Then you get your belt. The hardest part is the physical training they make you do for mcmap.
Even military martial arts has some weird stuff, like disarming a soldier who already holds you at gunpoint or disarming a knife-weilding attacker with your bare hands. Even in real life combat situation that techniques would be very unlikely to perform, leave alone civilians.
To be fair, aggression and physical fitness goes a long way, even without technique.
@@SwordTune exactly and that will make the difference when fighting untrained civilians.
@@dereksmith6097 West Point cadets enter judo tournaments and they usually do very well because a 5 minute round does nothing to their gas tank.
Yep, I can add a couple reasons why they don't. My first PT I ran as a Corporal I had live wrestling as fun PT. Well, it was a little rough, you know how we get, and I broke my fucking leg.
Now I believe more training maybe we could get better, however, that took me out of the fight for 5 months, and I got super lucky healing. It's a weird balance that's absolutely insane to get right. There will be casualties no matter what, even what little we do on a regular basis, but it'll be more if you go live.
Granted, take with a grain of salt, I was a peacetime POG, this is just my observation.
As a Marine I can back up everything that this guy is saying. The combatives that I was taught in the Marine Corps are not things that I can use in civilian life. I was taught some basic restraints or either to break arms and or stomp the grape. The majority of my training came from impromptu spar sessions with other Marines. And this was back in the 90s so it's not accounting for how pussified the military has become since then. That's why I decided to study Jiu Jitsu and Muay Thai.
There are basically three versions of military hand to hand fighting.
1:
Use your rifle or other object to smash your opponents face.
2:
In a wrestling match, find your knife and use it.
3:
Use numbers to subdue a guy and zip tie him
Numbers is option 1, but the rest is mostly true.
I didn't list them in any particular order. I merely pointed out the three main variants of military hand to hand combat.
But you get top grades in being a keyboard warrior 😉😂
@@scruffy7760 I'm a retired SFC 😆
Doesn't change anything does it 😂
@@scruffy7760 I don't own a keyboard I'm on my phone
I believe that one of the biggest misconceptions comes from a wrong understanding of the public when it comes to combatives: combatives are usually shown in movies to be this be-all-end-all super realistic martial art which can quickly turn you into a badass warrior. It’s nothing like this in reality. The combative system in our military (military is mandatory by law here) was basically just primitive fighting skills so that we’re not completely helpless when our weapons are gone/broken (although the combative instructor literally said “let’s be brutally honest here: you’re royally fucked if this scenario ever happens”). Half of the training was bayonet fencing, the other was unarmed skills (wrestling, boxing and some Jiu-Jitsu) and disarming techniques (which probably don’t work. Like let’s be honest here. They only taught this to us to give us confidence, but I don’t believe for a second that this complicated stuff can be applied when you’re under stress and in a combat situation). We had like 12 hours combatives training in total, which is less training than many amateur boxers have per week. The idea that combatives can turn you into a killer machine is something which comes from 1980s and 1990s Hollywood action movies and it has very little to do with reality. In truth, combatives are just a collection of primitive hand-to-hand combat skills which you can easily and quickly learn and apply, but it doesn’t turn you into an undefeatable badass and it won’t make you into an expert for unarmed combat (but to be fair, they were never designed to do any of this). Many people are looking for an “easy and quick” way of becoming a good fighter, so it’s understandable that combatives (especially in the media) look very attractive to them.
When I watched outlander, I was expecting Claire to have some martial art training. I thought we were going to see a more(I saw more because WW2 was 8 decades ago) modern martial arts vs hand to hand combat in the 1700's but Claire didn't even have any hand-to-hand combat training. Jaime had to teach her. I looked online to see how realisc it would be for her to have no training, but people say it actually is since women weren't really trained in combat back then.
At best it's probably just as effective to take down the average person with zero training at best. An amateur in martial arts would fair way better. In Muay Thai training within 3 to 5 months you'll become quite a capable fighter. Some of these RUclips boxers probably have better boxing skills than military personnel.
@@pjsniper436 You're right! I think that people overestimate how important combatives are in the military. We learned more about how to thrust a bayonet into a sandsack than how to wrestle with opponents. I'm the first one who admits that most amateur boxers and MMA fighters have a better knowledge of hand to hand combat than your average soldier. Our best combatives guy was a dude who was an expert wrestler, he was regional master and easily dealt with our guys during sparring. But then again: comabtives are a miniscule part of military training, most militaries (as far as I know) don't even teach combatives anymore. They only show their soldiers how to shoot guns, clean guns, make beds and walk large distances and that's about it.
@@KentPetersonmoney I think that most Western people in the 1700s had little to no actual martial arts training. I think that fencing, wrestling and boxing were the only martial arts which existed back then (and most sources even state that the fencing masters of the time were quite terrible. The German Roux fencing dynasty criticized the "low quality of fencing" in most of their publications). I don't know if "Savate" existed back then, but if it did, then it was also available.
@@Shiresgammai my best friend enlisted in the royal marines and his unarmed combat training was very miniscule compared to actual fighters at a combat gym. I know this because I spar with him a lot when he visits weekly and although I already had a kyokushin and boxing background I started Muay Thai at around 19 years old at the time and just using my 6 months of Muay Thai training I was dominating in our sparring sessions (when he was on leave). I wouldn't want to mess with him armed though 😂
Did MCMAP in the Marine Corps, you have to already be a well versed martial artist to get much out of it. The belt ranks for the most part are checks in the box so I've seen people who can't fight with a fist or rifle go up in rank and I've also seen Marines who could fight in MMA not even care for it.
From what I understand MCMAP is basically a tool to create building blocks like:
-agression
-willingness to engage
-ability to handle under stress
-leadership
-a competitive outlet for soldiers
Wrestling and rolling around on the ground gives them some of the above tools which aids them in their military work.
Up to a few hundred years ago melee combat was a key skill to win warfare and if you missed one spear stab or your sword cut did not instantly killed then you ended up in hand to hand combat. However today teamwork, communication, marksmanship etc and using technology etc is way more important.
This was good. Any martial art or fighting system is about context and the kind of force that is being used. In the UK, I think standard armed forces training barely bothers with hand to hand combat. Members of the UK military who practice martial arts are usually doing it for enjoyment or interest rather then because its required.
Do you guys still learn Fairbairn's method?
In real war situation a hand to hand combat situation would be very unlikely
So true!
You’re the only RUclipsr I’ve watched every single video of. Keep em coming:)
DUDE!!!!!!!!!!! There was an ad for Navy Seals martial arts as self-defense before the video. I had to pause the video because I couldn't breathe. IRONY!!!
I find it interesting how much military combatives have changed during my lifetime.
I went through basic training in the winter of 1986.
For hand to hand combat training, the majority we got was bayonet fighting, probably four or five days worth.
Unarmed combat lessons consisted of one single session, we were told ‘Everybody knows how to punch. Punch the enemy in the face until he is stunned’
Once the enemy was stunned, we were shown a very basic, very shitty single leg takedown and told to soccer kick/stomp on the skull of the downed enemy ‘until you see brains’
And that was the full extent of our unarmed combatives instruction back then 😂
Seems very honest actually.
Sounds similar to our combatives education. The vast majority of combat training in most militaries seemingly consists mostly of bayonet fencing. Did you guys train chin jabs? They were omnipresent in our curriculum.
Military combative will give you an edge against civilians who don’t train if you practice. But a boxer or wrestler will beat you 10/10 times with several months of training lmao
It's important to keep in mind that if you're a civilian you are not in the military and vice versa. The requirements for the two lifestyles are vastly different, thus why many of my fellow veterans have such a hard time re-acclimatizing to civilian life when they get out of the military. It's odd that getting out due to a traumatic brain injury seems to have made it easier for me, I guess learning how to walk and talk again made the rest seem less significant.
A sense of humour seems to have helped :)
@@malkomalkavian There isn't any other way to deal with life, you have to laugh in the devil's face just for the satisfaction of having done so. Even if it costs you an eternity of pain you can still say you did it.
I'm sure that the last few years of national stupidity involving the perception of TBIs haven't helped, but hopefully you aren't recommended too many new fad diets and yoga classes to "cure" your injury.
You are right. I have passed by some comments saying about tests in military martial art were so easy. I think the military martial art nowadays is different from that of the past. In the past, we did not have protective guards when testing and all tests were based on real warfare circumstances. In the school we were brainwashed to be not of civilians. Learning military practical martial arts is not available in the current world, I think. Mindset is much different. Being unconscious during the test is the very normal case.
Then you've never tried my super-duper top-secret Navy Seal Army SFOD Delta SOG martial art. It's basically unbeatable (It also doesn't exist)
I mean you can't beat it if it doesn't exist so it's the best martial art
But what if my lieutenant got in a guy who was clearly doing mountains of coke to teach us his system named after a tiny furry rodent?
Mate l saw you through Icey Mike and this video made me love you.
I train with both vets and police officers, I asked them about their training and they said the training was shit compared to bjj or mma and all the things you listed...they said too.
Also another thing to note is a lot of military combatives is mainly about creating space to draw a gun, or a dominant position to stab them, or that's a good focus in the training.
Amazing video, shared it on my community and social media... Good Job.. one of the realest videos I've seen lately...
I remember when I was in Army bootcamp (long ago), we were doing hand-to-hand combat training. Some of the techniques looked kinda jinky, so I started showing my battle buddy some Muay Thai tools. The drill sergeant came over and started observing us. I was sure that he was going to smoke me for deviating from their lessons. But, instead he watched with approval.
Even if we ignored the different training methodolgy, it is obvious, that most military martial arts will focus on either restraining someone, or killing them.
That misses giant aspects of civilian self defense. I'd rather have a good foot sweep, and 200 meter dash against a random drunk in a pub, then the ability to strangle him to death with his own entrails. Only one of those let me still be the good guy in the end.
Restraining is more widely useful, but even then, it comes with caviates. If you know you'll have buddies coming in to zip tie the guy, there is no reason to sit in knee on belly, when you can go to side control. But in a civilian context, knee on belly is often more useful, cause it let's you disengage much faster, if you need to get away for some reason.
If people were able to put egos aside and learn from your videos, they'd be able to grow so much. Another awesome vid man!
This was an excellent summary of why these combatives programs are less effective than actually learning to fight.
When I was in the Army, combatives live training was every dude in the platoon that had wrestled in high school beating everyone else's ass
I learned this the hard way. I used to do combatives while I was in the Air Force Security Forces (Military Police). We just used the Army combatives program. I took a few years of Judo before I enlisted, and while I was in the mindset of "this is military martial arts, it must be good" I think what helped me do well in it and end up running the program for a while was because of the aggression learned in Judo. Since all the combatives stuff was relatively simple stuff skill wise, doing it with aggression made it effective.
It wasn't until I got out and started doing Brazilian jiu-jitsu that I realized how silly it was. Yes, there was purpose for our training in the military. You hit it right on in the video. As MPs, we were either restraining somebody, or creating enough space in the fight to utilize our tools (baton, taser, sidearm, rifle). As a civilian, I continuously found myself in BJJ class losing all the time because I was trying to continue with that mindset of pinning and restraining someone, or creating the space to reset the fight. Changing the mindset was the most helpful advice I got from the instructor.
This was an excellent video. Military martial arts work for what they're purposed for, but outside of that realm you need to greatly expand your training.
The main advantage of military training (whether armed or unarmed) is to give the soldier the right mental skills to dominate and win. It is the warrior ethos. Civilian martial arts don't necessarily give the same mental skills. As an example my son and I did karate for two years. Sadly his training ended when he slipped and fractured his femur and suffered a life threatening injury. I was on scene and immediately clicked into combat/rescue mode - analyze, organize and respond. The Senseis in contrast froze. I immediately organized first aid, analyzed where the best ingress and egress points were and called the EMS. I treated him with combat medicine skills and rode in the ambulance. I was ordering the Senseis what to do and used command and control methods I learnt in the military. My warrior ethos saved my son's life that day.
As someone who served in the Army, I can confirm that MACP is a joke. All the soldiers who are good at fighting are those who already train in wrestling, Jiu Jitsu, Judo, kickboxing, etc.
I have a buddy who was a Marine and trained mcmap and he explained to me the reason why there wasn’t that much groundwork was because it relays heavily on having knives and guns, that’s kinda why I feel most military H2H isn’t very effective. It relays on weapons as he said
As a Marine vet , no MCMAP is not good.
Basically if you're all of a sudden hand to hand fighting with the enemy, something really went wrong
Krav Maga is Self “Offense” and it must be employed in that way or it’s worthless along with any other martial art. In any defensive encounter (and unless you’re the bad guy that how they all start) you must immediately and with brutal, unwavering aggression, go on the offense to destroy their attack upon you and Krav Maga is perfect for that but if you don’t already have the proper mindset then nothing is going to save you and you can debate over which martial art is the best until you’re blue in the face.
When I was a white belt in BJJ abd had been studying for about 6 months, we had a guy join that was a level 3 army combatives instructor. He'd been in war, led mean in war, lost men in war. Was very fit, very aggressive, and had a no quit attitude. He also had no base so I got pretty good at the butterfly sweep and scissor sweep. After a couple of months though, he started beating me because he figured out base. But for those first couple of months, it was awesome. I did whatever I felt like. If we had to fight for real, he'd likely beat me just because of sheer will and real world experience of managing stress that I don't have. But on the mat, different story.
So what would you say is self defence - more what you called a real fight or on the mat?
@@mutant0177 self defense is far more than fighting ability though being able to fight is important.
In a gym fight, sure a BJJ guy would defeat a trained military man, but take the fight to another ground and you will see that things change. Something I reproach those who practice BJJ is they believe that what happens in life is like what happens on the mat and they are wrong. A dude trained for lethal combat is an adversary worthy of respect and of whom one must be cautious.
@@lazarobabich6696 in a fight that involved weapons, he might have an edge. But hand to hand fighting is hand to hand fighting. I don't think BJJ is the end all be all of martial arts, but a person who has lots of training in hand to hand is going to have an advantage over someone who has some training in hand to hand (and not very good training)
@@jomess7879 It's not all about technique training. street smarts, homicidal instinct, cruelty and sadism, those things are not taught or learned in the mat and that is what will give you an advantage on the "street". And bjj is not technically superior to other styles such as Judo or collegiate wrestling. In fact, I practiced judo and then I practiced bjj and I understood that judo training is much harder and its technical repertoire is more abundant. I came to the conclusion that bjj is so popular and so practiced because it is relatively easy and accessible, it is practiced by housewives, grannies, even middle-aged Hollywood stars. Judo, and especially wrestling, cannot be practiced by everyone and demands a certain level of physical skill that is above the average person.
I disagree somewhat. Compared to civilians, military members a generally fitter (e.g. many people have difficulty performing more than ten push ups or jog 1.5 miles). Members tend to be more situationally aware, and generally fight more, many times among themselves, unfortunately. Again, a punch is a punch, a throw is a throw, a kick is a kick. WW2 era "defendu" is basically sound, imo, and is a good starting point for hand to hand, imo.
holy crap, at 67, i've been pondering, researching, all that for decades, and you just put it all into 9 frigging minutes! waddya think about the philippine Marine Force Recon ginunting, machete-sword, about 18'' blade? the older, larger, 1500s-1800s gurkha kukries, 15-18'' blades? the russian spetznaz 'axe' shovel?
"if you wanna be the hokage, there are no shortcuts!"
-armchair violence
Never served myself but I know a lot of guys from out the military, a good few train at my gym and one was a Black belt in Kickboxing before he even entered. They've all more or less said that the training is extremely basic and you don't spend a great deal of time on it. Because there's more important shit to worry about. The only people that came out of the military as bad arses with hand to hand combat, are those that joined a boxing or martial arts club while serving.
You do get the odd lad with a bit of bravado that says the typical "Yeah but we learn dirty moves to end the fight quickly" but I honestly just put that down to how the fellow was taught and it probably makes sense to him in the context of what he's done. So I'm a tad more forgiving of people from the military saying that. Even if it's probably not dawned on them that the person with far more experience in H2H combat is likely going to create such a large skill gap that will render any cheap moves laughably ineffective (outside of making him mad) without a massive amount of luck on his hands.
When fellows that haven't served say that shit I'm a tad more like "No, you weren't, you've been sold bullshit by a charlatan and you're probably going to get yourself killed".
Yeah, I can see how it is more forgivable coming from military guys. Obviously, they're WAY too confident in their dirty moves, but going ballistic with dirty moves is a MUCH better idea in a battlefield context. Especially when you just want to make the guy mentally reset so that you can get to an actual weapon.
They learned stuff that's fairly valid in warfare, and would get them beat up or thrown in prison in any other context lol
@@ArmchairViolence I guess it's just a tad more understandable. Like even if he's not entirely correct, I can see why he'd think that due to the context of which he's learned. He has kind of learned to kill people fast and quick with his bare hands using dirty moves and tactics. Because that's the whole point and context of his training. He may not really know much better outside of that. Though outside of the training he's received in the military, he may have absolutely no interest in martial arts beyond that point, because it's just what they've learned for that specific scenario. So could be understandably ignorant of the concept of skill gaps between his own learning and that of a professional fighter. He's likely parroting the words that have been laid into him through out training, which would have instilled an attitude (rather than actual technical prowess) that could have saved his life out in the field.
That I get. Again, he's not entirely right but not to the point I'd roll my eyes at. Him thinking that would have served purpose in and area it needed to.
Which is a great deal different to some fellow whose taken up at his local Krav or combative gym, saying "I learn moves that are going to end you quickly, moves that are deadly and ignore the rules". You're in a relatively safe civilian context (as such is myself) you're learning some set patterns to make you feel a little better and maybe some watered down martial arts to go along with it. This isn't something that's been instilled upon you with the attitude that you may actually have to kill someone. This is something you've taken up as a bit of an hobby, you've gone out of your way to go to this place because it sells an easier story to you, than going to a place where you may have to spar and possibly fight in order to earn any prestige or respect from the system.
I guess to boil it down. The military fellow actually believes it. While the lad at your standard combative gym, is just saying it to make himself feel better. Which (even if the results would be the same when going up a far better trained opponent) lends more credit and credibility to the militarymen.
@@Sovvolf A hail mary gouge or bite also makes a lot more sense when the other guy is trying to gut you with a knife or make you a POW in a dog kennel for two years too.
@@Sovvolf yep, if someone ahs a set pattern for dirty moves it usually isn't a good sign.
The closest thing to functional dirty moves is just improvised weaponry and even then, there needs to be some level of surprise or hindrance or nothing is going to happen.
Like throwing a rock at someone, or throwing a bin lid at someone, or throwing a whole bag of medium-heavy garbage or getting the guy to punch a wall or kick a metal pole, or preventing or instigating a box in.
Those might help but you still need to stomp the fella into the concrete using, well, stomps, punches, grappling.
Street fighting makes you more aggressive in general and teaches basic martial art skills like a jack of some trades with a LOT of environmental awareness. But in a professional setting it doesn't really apply cause there's no big differance in terrain, no wall to take advantage of, no need to go apeshit to survive or a randomly placed dangerous rock.
Dirty fighting works to an extent but not as well as people think it does.
The biggest advantage soldiers get from their HTH training is physical fitness.
Military hand-to-hand is used as a last resort. It's more beneficial to spend the limited training time on using the rifle & getting soldiers to be as lethal as possible with a rifle.
These videos are fantastic. The exact type of content I try to do with my own channel on occasion. You do it better though
Thanks! I've been training to tell people why they're wrong my whole life 😎
Thank you, I've been saying this for awhile now
Although several updates could be made to many military combatives programs, I think their biggest issues is they aren't trained Regularly. The few course I did were basically 2 weeks and everyday we trained for 4+ hours and got our belts. Then proceeded to not see it again for a year or more. How it was Designed to be taught, (at least in the Marine Corps) was that you'd mix it in with morning PT. You'd alternate days of combatives training and your conditioning would be on the other days. That way you could actually get around 3 to 5 hours a week training techniques and sparring IS SUPPOSED to be apart of it. So if done right, we'll say a 4 year contract for a Marine is the standard, rounding down to 48 weeks in the year for misc. things, minus two 7 month deployments, that comes out to 136 weeks of training, at 3 hours a week that should come out to 408 hours of training after 4 years. So that should give you a decent amount of combatives training and proficiency after just your 1st contract without drastically effecting regular training time. Especially if you limit your curriculum to basic striking (muay thai based), basic clinch work, a few Judo throws, and some fundamental BJJ, and some weapons techniques. I think I COULD work, just not the way they're done now. Great video!
Points are well made. Constantly see videos of people teaching while wearing combat pants etc. Krav guys especially play on this military theme. I also see this a lot when it comes to people showing or talking about using a blade.
Okay, for the first laugh - I do Krav Maga in Europe.
I get the logic behind that stuff.
But is not that of a big deal to adapt stuff to another function especially if the technique is easy.
So if you have limited time (about 3 hours a week), you are in your 40', do not want to go to work like the guy in fight club (movie), want to be (a tiny bit) better prepared to self defence situations like seen on CCTV and do not want to roll around on the floor all day what is wrong with it? You learn to have a better awareness, have easy techniques which work under high stress AND you have to be aggressive and go forward... wait...maybe it is not much diffrent from the things this guy mentioned in the video.
But I have to say, that it is not that old school krav maga more a blend of krav, urban combatives and even s.p.e.a.r but that is not very important for the story.
5:15 Why learn a combat sport if you have to be defensive and how many hours of training deescalation do you do in a month in bjj? If you only in defence mode and do not be proactive at a certain point at a violent encounter it will be very hard because the very first punch often times is enough...so make sure you are guy who throws it.
I went to army boot camp a few years before they introduced the stress card. Granted, different bases may have done things slightly different but company had 2 drill sergeants who were former rangers. Our hand to hand combat training was one day consisting of 2hr ruck march followed by 2hr training session. During the training, we were shown a palm heel strike, a hammer strike and a break fall. We were then told that we were killing machines.
Hi. (Excuse my bad English - I'm swedish).
First and foremost - thank you very much for this video clip. It is highly educational aswell as entertaining. Please keep up your good work!
However - I just wanted to add a couple of tidbits of knowledge to your video, if I may.
Military marial arts/hand to hand combat training/combatives - are all developed to work (in best case) - or at least be efficient enough - when carrying weapons, tactical gear such as helmet, load bearing vests, rucksacks etc. This equipment is both heavy and bulky and makes it cumbersome to move for the soldier. Of course - since most people dont have to carry these things in a typical civilian life - the techniques of fighting in them has little to no bearing on civilian self defence.
In sweden - there was (until I was in my twenties) mandatory conscription, requiring everyone to do (approximately - and depending on your individual station) a year of military service. Back then - ALL "infantry" personel and combat pilots had various degrees of combatives-training. And to a higher extent (I presume) than a GI Grunt - since our conscription time was longer than just a few weeks of basic training (as in the USA)?
However - in the 90's - most of this "combatives"-training was centered around different versions of Jiu Jitsu techniques, and mostly to either 1) protect yourself during watch duty and/or surveillance missions or 2) to "silently dispose of sentries". Most soldiers got the "self protection"/"self defence"-portion of it (which included stuff like using your rifle with a bayonet, as a spear, as a club/baton and/or several locking and grappling techniques to restrain (an unarmed) intruder. Ranger units, recon units and combat pilots, however - also got the "silent killing" portion of the training.
Today - this training has been dramatically downsized (in Sweden) and drawing less and less from Martial Arts like Jiu Jitsu - and more from other "military combatives" such as different versions of Krav Maga.
I found this video - showing some of the techniques we were trained in in the 90's (the footage is from a part of an "instructional" video from my "old home regiment" - and filmed (originally) in the mid 90's.
ruclips.net/video/eNZF6IwTC24/видео.html
I don't say that this is more "efficient" for "civilian self defence" than any comercial Martial art - just that "things have changed" and that "in the Swedish military - at least - we have gotten less and less time to train "combatives" - which used to be a longer program here (than in the US).
Were you guys in training for the whole year? In the US, we have 2 year contracts but the training is still only a few months. I would be surprised if they had you guys in training for that much of your conscription.
The Swedish military probably realized that most of their fancy combatives moves weren't actually useful to anyone, so they cut them out.
Then they just copied countries that have well-known combatives programs. Honestly, for a smaller military that's trying to be efficient, that's not a bad idea.
@@ArmchairViolence yes. Basic training was 10-15 months.
After that - you could (for example) apply for service abroad (as in peace keeping missons and such). Or - you were ”re-drafted” for training exercises every two-three years for ”repetition training”. To keep the skills. Every such ”repetition” was usually a month.
Your (civilisn) employer had to ”lend” you for military service when the defence called for your service (as in repetitions or service abroad or the like).
Another good video, your takes on martial arts are always well reasoned. I was curious about your thoughts on something. I recently started BJJ and noticed some of the positions that are taught leave one vulnerable to strikes, and that defence against strikes is (somewhat) neglected in the training. What are your thoughts on that, and if combat Jiu Jitsu could be a more practical alternative? Thanks
They might be teaching a more sport BJJ approach. What they teach more of often depends on the gym.
If you want to learn striking defense, here are some things you can do...
1. Ask your instructor. They were probably taught some defenses that they don't focus on that much, and would be happy to show them to you if you ask.
2. Roll with light punches. This will help you weed out what moves work against strikes and which don't without hurting each other. Make sure you clear it with your instructor first, but most instructors would allow it. You just need a partner that also wants to practice strikes.
3. Limit yourself to the moves and strategies that DO work against strikes. This will prevent you from spending too much time on the super cool positions that don't work in an actual fight.
Ultimately, even if your gym teaches a sport version, there are ways for you to alter your personal training to specialize in anything you want!
Try Rickson's bjj 😊 it's made for self defense.
Probably why in WW2 the Marines main form of hand to hand was harsh language, folk wrestling and boxing.
They are not effective because their training revolves around weapon usage. Your goal if you get jumped in close quarters is to keep from getting tied up so you can point your rifle at the assailant. Or your knife. Detaining someone or taking a prisoner of war isn't difficult, it typically happens after the battle is concluded and the detainees see resistance as fruitless.
As a civilian these techniques are useless. You cannot carry a firearm around legally unless you live in Israel or specific provinces/regions. You are limited to home defense when it comes to firearms. That is different from battlefield tactics and calls for a different set of skills yet again.
The only thing I have to correct you on is something that actually helps your point.
Marines need 150 hours to be a BLACK BELT instructor. They can become a lower level instructor with just 77 hours.
Which yeah, would be a laughably small amount of time to get any kind of instructor certification at even the worst McDojos.
fully agreed, im a UK Veteran, the number of times people say to me I would hate to fight you as you are military trained. I would always think thank fook, I hate getting punched it's why I had a rifle.
I was a black belt 🥋 at 8 count body builders by the time I left Great Lakes. But seriously in the few fights I got in wrestling was all I did. All I did was clinch up and use athleticism.
Ming dynasty martial arts were 100 days for empty hand. The bulks was formation and weapons etc. Once the colt revolver hit the scene in the 1850s styles and forms exploded. The primary weapons were bows and spears. Empty hand techniques were similar to Fairbanks, one flow motion like a figure 8 with lots of potential applications that can be used while in the red zone with little thought. The more you know, the slower your reaction time (Hick's law). Styles have to be as limited as possible for their intended purpose if they are to be useful.
I came into the Marines straight from high school wrestling. I'm a total scrub in reality but was a GOD there because I know a double and have a gnarly high crotch.
The military should honestly recruit straight from wrestling programs. Wrestlers are already fit, they're already taught aggression, and they're already WAY better at combatives than the instructors are! 😆
@@ArmchairViolence Spot on as usual. I actually got to see a hand-to-hand exchange when I was attached to 3rd Recon. I was spotting for one of our tracking dogs, handler moves into the last known location given by locals. NO ONE SEARCHED IT. Homie cracked open the door and the dude pulled him in. Dog stuck on outside freaking the fuck out 2 people get bit trying to open the door. Before we can get the door open, dude stabbed him 9 TIMES in the neck. Its like Ryan Hoover has mentioned a few times, you can't always use a gun or your primary. Carrying a knife brought his chances of survival up 100%. crazy.
@@DogScience Wait, the soldier stabbed the bad guy or GOT stabbed by the bad guy?
@@ArmchairViolence oops sorry my buddy stabbed him in the t box and neck multiple times.
@@DogScience Good!
That's actually an excellent example of how CQB should be handled! Get to any weapon you can and go 100% pure offense. Good job by your buddy!
I will forever stand by a fight with rules being a sport and not a real fight, but it doesn't mean it won't help in a real fight where you gotta defend yourself
Hey buddy love the content I have a question.
I’ve gotten into heated debates with many people about who would win in a street fight, a trained military man i.e. Green Beret/navy seal or A trained professional combat sports champion.
They usually say the military person because they are trying to kill and train for a sport. I always rebuttal with if Jon Jones wanted to kill you…. he can….
Thoughts?
They teach BJJ as combatives at most military installations. It's an afterwork activity and entirely voluntary. The military also goes to the range around 2-4 times a year (if they're not Cav or Crunchies), and they spend an average of less than 100rds per soldier to qualify, so weapons proficiency isn't great either.
Training to go to Iraq was 3 weeks too. Thankfully, we had Cinnabon at Speicher, so my combat skills were between bench press and cinnamon goop.
Love the channel.
I cannot speak for other branches but in the Marines we only very briefly did stuff like that, we were mostly coordinating firepower, which is foremost, even in infantry.
The combative class I learned for a years was the basic ground game, trips, throws, and slams. Until the end where we learn some war time fighting where we learned how to crush the throat, take out the eyes, and go for the groin. That was off the books😅.
My best friend served with the 1st Ranger Battalion. He confirmed that the fundamental MACP certification they received was pretty ass. SOCP was decidedly better, but specialized in such a way that it really isn't applicable to 99% of civilian self-defense or sporting scenarios.
However, what really got my attention is how he talked about Combatives sparring in the Regiment being decidedly different once he got to the Regiment, meaning he got his ass kicked a lot more often. The 75th being what it is, it attracts a lot of athletic, competitive, Type A personalities. A lot of those personalities had backgrounds in martial arts prior to enlisting: state champion wrestlers, amateur boxers, BJJ Blue Belts, Black Belts in TKD or various forms of karate, one of his buddies had even trained pretty extensively in Filipino martial arts. In other words, the guys who could handle themselves were the ones who actually knew how to fight thanks to the training they had received from other sources.
The same goes for ex-Combatives Tournament champions who have gone on to become successful UFC veterans like Tim Kennedy and Neil Magny. Tim had been training & competing in various martial arts since childhood. Magny was a high school wrestler who started BJJ at 17 years old, followed by kickboxing and continued his MMA training while he was in the Army. Brian Stann is the only military veteran who was in the UFC that didn't have a preexisting martial arts background, but even he started training heavily in MMA on his own time after the Marine Corps exposed him to it. It's not like MCMAP got him to the big leagues. But I digress.
The quality of military combatives systems varies wildly depending on unit, individual instructor, training rotation, etc. Sometimes they're pretty good, sometimes they're terrible. But even with the best of them it's important to keep them in context and remember what they're actually there to do:
-- Act as a form of physical conditioning/exercise.
-- Act as a form of mental conditioning. In other words: toughening up and instilling aggression into a bunch of nineteen-year-old kids, the majority of which have never been directly exposed to physical violence in their lifetime.
-- Provide a *very* basic and fundamental baseline of techniques for troops to fall back on in the already unlikely situation that they find themselves in a hand-to-hand encounter on the modern battlefield.
No idea why any civilian would ever willingly go out of their way to pursue such systems when they would get vastly more mileage out of visiting their local MMA gym and maybe mixing in some other specialized training that's available to them (Craig Douglas or Ryan Hoover's stuff, etc.)
That does make me wonder what sort of martial arts is best suited for someone who carries a handgun on a daily basis. I have learned how to draw my gun (and always carry chambered), how to shoot the gun decently, and some basic weapon retention techniques. I wonder if there’s anything else worth learning there in terms of unarmed martial arts (obviously, learning gunfighting techniques is my main “martial art”).
I am surprised I didn't find more negative reactions below! But the truth often upsets people. The one thing I appreciated is the little comment that Krav Maga hasn't been self-defense for nearly 70 years. And let's face it, it is more widely known due to marketing. Most don't know it was Imi Lichtenfeld's personal experiences and training distilled for quick distribution to the Jewish community that was being persecuted in Bratislava, and his father was a police officer that owned a gym and also taught self-defense there. So it started out for civilians and morphed into paramilitary training when he migrated to Palestine. I think the only weapon defenses were knife and club, which you would expect to encounter from thugs, and the rest were added as needed. It was always meant to be modified for need, and following his theory, if not used by the military it should be more about legal responses for a civilian.
On the other hand, Israel is constantly in a state of belligerence with its neighbors, and even with some of its population, so the chances of needing deadly force as opposed to a more sporting aspect are higher. That is, they are more likely to face what a soldier would than somebody in Texas. Sure, it's appealing. Who wouldn't like to feel as if you are learning some sort of Special Forces uber training? Wearing camo instead of a gi would feel more modern and tacticool, and you could bash those that 'play sports' and not real hardcore reality killer stuff. So thanks for being real, but not for ruining the fun of being a poser in 511s. Now go rain on somebody else's parade.
U clear my all dought brother plzzz make more videos like this
Military martial arts aren’t useless due to a different purpose. They are useless because they are there as a quota.
In basic training or boot camp you get ONE DAY of hand to hand training and it’s a stretch to call it training. It’s a few compliance drills, making guys wrestle without any teaching them just telling them “do it” and maybe having them hit something. That’s it. One day... not enough to retain anything. The rest of the time they are doing map reading, basic first aid, running, map reading, weapons (mainly a rifle), sleep deprivation to become more susceptible to orders, and being yelled at.
The military has martial
Arts programs for appearances... not for use.
Yeah, that's probably fair, in a lot of cases.
Although, telling people to "do it" isn't nearly as bad if all you care about is building aggression. But I can see how it might be a stretch to call that a "martial arts program."
@@ArmchairViolence building aggression is absolutely helpful. But every vet friend of mine didn’t know the first thing about wrestling or position so they’d rush in to grab you and didn’t really know what to do from there. It’s basically like doing wrestling in a PE class. No one knows what they are doing because they aren’t taught. You need aggression with actual instruction. The military simply doesn’t care because their goal was never hand to hand. They just want to make the receipts miserable so they listen better for moral and feel tough so the fear is down. Then 80% of them go on to non combat jobs. That’s the reality of the military. Every since Vietnam ended… majority of vets since haven’t seen much or any combat. Especially in the past 25 years.
Amituofo. Keep training! ❤
Basic training combatives isn't where it ends. When I was in the 101st airborne in an infantry company they trained in combatives every week. There is a special combatives class that teaches BJJ, Judo and boxing. After the class the troops will continue to practice multiple days per week for years. I worked with a guy who lost his rank because he punched another guy in the face once and he needed facial reconstruction surgery. I would say he knew self defense very well.
Also, in every war the enemy has used human wave tactics to overwhelm our troops. If you're on the ground grappling when 10 enemy soldiers come at you then you're going to be dead. All that's needed to neutralize anyone who practices BJJ is a knife or handgun. 99% of people who practice BJJ aren't stupid enough to try and grapple a person holding a knife or handgun. The ones who do try it will most likely be dead or seriously injured. SAS teaches that your environment is a weapon. Even if someone doesn't have a weapon on them it doesn't mean something sharp and pointy isn't nearby they can use to stab and slice with. Real fighting doesn't have rules.
In the 1980's when I was in the US Army as an M1 Tanker, they didn't train much hand to hand. I was instead encouraged to get better all around physically, and golden gloves/amateur boxing.
I'm learning Jeet Kune Do the real combat system for self defense & street survival which was also taught in military......
Hold on, you're trying to tell me You Don't walk with a platoon?;)
Also, you have touched on all the important issues. Good video 👍
Like I said in a previous comment, my first PT I ran as a Corporal I thought I'd be just a silly billy and run a live wrestling PT under a MCMAP instructor. I broke my damn leg. It's more about being able to get rifles into a fight than more people realize. Maybe there's a balance between being able to mess people up in a hand to hand manner and being able to keep your Marines safe, and it's a hard divide.
According to Army doctrine plan B in all your sceneries is going to be a buttstroke. Bonus points if you got enough training to allow you to not cave in someones skull if you're just trying to restrain them.
Absolutely. Looked into many and was woefully disappointed.
No matter what style you’re learning whether it’s in the military or in a studio at a shopping mall it comes down to the fighter himself and how much he practices and puts in to his art all the styles taught to the military are good styles whether or not they had time to learn everything before battle is a whole other subject the style itself the art is good, This is my take on it I’ve seen people with no training fight better than those with training it always comes down to the fighter all styles are good
truest ! Routine practices create the instinctive reaction to the situation where the application is required. 30 years continuously without a day to rest, (unless being admitted in the hospital) I still keep jogging 5- 10 km. a day with the ankle weights of 5 pounds each, in addition to pushing up anytime during the day when the time allows me to do. I have been in street fights by accident and I do not have fear of fighting a professional fighter, if inevitably.
This explains Tradational Japanese Jujutsu, sadly, my love for this style of Jujutsu is hard for me to tear away from.
I've seen that EGA on a couple of your videos. Are you a Marine?
Really good info! Love your channel!
Right before Veterans day and the Marine Corps birthday... Consider me to have mixed feelings but you raise decent points
I’ve had an opportunity to spar a marine in boxing and needless to say ur very spot on. They are on the level of an early beginner. The person I sparred didn’t clam up and kept moving forward and attacked.
In Paris Island we learned the pugil stick and the ol yut yut techniques. Drill instructor mentioned this gets you used to contact
Bro take off the poolee shirt 😂 you’re killing me
I’ve always wondered… What is the ‘Median Line’ some fighters talk about? And how does it relate to Centre Line?
In feudal Japan they loved the gun as even the worst soldier with absolutely no knack for combat whatsoever could be easily trained with a firearm to best the greatest warrior with a traditional weapon and needless to say unarmed... This is more the mentality of modern militaries meaning more emphasis on range combat meaning close quarters combat and hand-to-hand will inevitably suffer
There's a reason why a huge part of combatives is pugil sticks. It simulates rushing an opponent and violently beating them with you rifle, which is basically a metal club at that point.
A really cynical take would be that teaching barehanded knife/gun disarms instills enough confidence in a soldier to try it rather than be captured because a dead soldier is cheaper than a live POW.
A less cynical take is that a few well armed people can often control a much larger unarmed group only because the individuals are too scared to attack together. convince your soldiers that they are so badass they can just rip the guns away and someone is more likely to start the snowball that results in the captives overrunning their captors.
probably the best take is that even for a well trained person an untrained savage brute takes longer to deal with than a timid individual and that time difference can be the difference between the job being finished or the guys friends showing up.
Preach! I’ve said the same thing before, difference is, I’m a no body so no one listens lol. Only other point I would have brought up is, as far as using military training for self defense against things like knives, that would be a decent idea. As you said, that is the type of situations they train for, and not that any other martial arts doesn’t offer the same studies, just saying lol
Imagine an alternate timeline of a world that fought their wars with only hand to hand combat
YES!!! THANK!!!🎉
My platoon commander, back in USMC OCS straight up said that MCMAP is more of a summary training regiment. I'm still excited to learn it, but from what i gathered a lot of it will be review with a change in mentality. (For context i have been doing different traditonal and modern martial arts for 20 years now)
we are at the 2 minute mark and you bring up a point I've always brought up when people put down traditional arts and self defense against weapons. These are are actually based in military applications where the first choice is a weapon and the weapons attacks are for armored people. The modern slash and grab of modern attacks attack is different than the stab to kill thru your padded coat that tradition defense is based on.
I have a video request. What are your thoughts on Self Defense BJJ, or the Gracie Self Defense Curriculum? A "sport" bjj vs "self defense" bjj argument.
I haven't looked at their specific curriculum super closely, but I doubt its any better than the MMA version of BJJ. Both of them are just going to be "BJJ with strikes."
Selling it as a better version of self-defense is just a marketing gimmick.
The stuff Rener and Ryron sell isn't any better than the rest of BJJ, and it's often worse. They just market their stuff better.
@@ArmchairViolence they could sell an Eskimo air conditioning, I'll give them that.
The fact that military hand-to-hand techniques are a low priority means that they are designed to be simple and learned quickly and easily. That makes them pretty good for civilians who want to pick up some basics quickly and don't have a lot of time to devote to martial arts.
Hello mate...whats your opinion about lee Morrison's urban combatives... cheers from Greece 🥊
Very impressive breakdown on the topic, dude. You nailed all the biggest points. Even when I was in the Marine Corps, we used to joke that you knew someone was admin when they were a black belt. It really is one of the least needed skills in a combat zone.
I largely disagree about the idea that MMA and boxing aren’t sports though. Does it help more so in civilian uses? Absolutely, but I still think it serves niche cases. The first reason is size and strength will win most fights. Yes, a smaller and weaker fighter who is very proficient can beat a bigger and stronger opponent. But your average person or even fighter doesn't have that level of skill.
But the best skill set you can have is being good with firearms, even as a civilian. The best thing you can learn from BJJ or other combat sports is how to get an attacker off you and create enough distance to arm yourself. Firearms or any weapon really will always beat your combat sports skill set. Really, I see MMA and boxing being good for when you have to deal with a dick who wants to fight but doesn’t want to kill you or seriously hurt you. Even then, I would recommend most people simply not engage if you can; it’s just not worth the risk that can come from it.
The USMC does pugil stick training (and so did the FBI, back in the Hoover decades) not so much as bayonet training, but as a means of both instilling fighting spirit AND to learn how to take painful impact and keep on fighting. In fact, one of valuable aspects of pugils, is the movements are so divorced from actual armed or unarmed movements, no bad habits are formed.
Yo, I'd like to see a video about Lethwei, there's not alot of videos about that, also I like your name.