Couple of things I've picked up over the years: 1) Denon/Marantz guarantee their 5 channel driven numbers are 70% of the 2 channel number across the x3700h and up. 2) Whether you need external amps really depends on listening levels and efficiency of the speakers and distance to the speakers. If you have your side surrounds really far away compared to your fronts it might make more sense to sense to put the extra power their way assuming they can handle it. 3) Another thing you didn't mention is that a lot of higher end AVRs that have the pre-outs can actually process more channels then they can power so for example the x3700h and x6700h can process 11 and 13 channels respectively but can only power 9 and 11 channels so it can also be used to unlock better speaker configurations. 4) Lastly don't forget to bump up your crossovers after running room correction as room correction generally sets the crossover at the in room -3db point but it isn't accounting for compression or distortion at louder volumes where more power is needed. Edit: forgot to mention but great video as always :)
Thanks for your points. 1-3 are clear. I am not sure I understand your fi Al point though. What do you mean that room correction set the crossover at -3db?
@@HarryM2022 Let's say you have speaker that plays +/- 3db from 50hz-20khz in an anechoic chamber. However due to room acoustics such as boundary gain that speaker might measure at your seat that it plays 3db queiter at 30hz or 40hz or even worse it will set it to large instead of small. However just because you have output there doesn't mean that you want to use it as there's generally a lot of distortion/compression in the bass (look at Erin's Audio Corner's speaker measurements). Also have to consider that a subwoofer has a much larger driver and a ton more power so it doing 80hz stuff is trivial for it whereas a 5, 6, or 8" woofer that also has to play to 2000hz+ is really struggling as visually expressed by lots of movement from the woofer. Also crossovers aren't on off switches with most AVRs doing 12db/octave high pass filters for main speakers and 24db/octave low pass filters for the subs so with an 80hz crossover your mains will be playing 12db quieter at 40hz. However on the flip side going to high can cause you to localize the bass so going passed around 110-120hz isn't recommended unless you have tiny speakers with 3" drivers.
The Marantz 70% guarantee doesn't mean much on a 9 channel receiver. I added a MM7055 amp for the front three, because there was no way I was going to expect a receiver to handle a 9 channel load. Especially with Kef R series speakers. It could but why risk it IMO. To be fair, there are a few things I'd like to add: the subs do take a substantial load off of the AVR. In stereo listening, your only powering two speakers. For theater use, the center channel is doing most of the heavy lifting, and sounds move around the sound field. Rarely are all the speaker driven at once. The receivers power supply has capacitors for intermittent power demand. I have my system on a UPS, and my SR7011 receiver rarely pulls over 200W total at loud volume with 7 channels driven, and fairly inefficient speakers (86db/w@1M). If it's drawing less than 200W then the output to the speakers might be half considering all the processing etc... That's about as loud as I can stand in a 2,000 cu ft room. I'm running 6.2.4 (a single rear) with the front three through the amp. With the amp I'm noticing less distortion. I cannot comment on sound staging because my room acoustics aren't perfect. Overall I think adding an amp is a good investment. The caveat being that you'll need a dedicated mains power source for all this equipment, (2 subs, a TV, receiver, amp, and accessories). A 20A dedicated outlet may not be enough. If you are plugging things in to multiple circuits you could end up with problems if they are not drawing 110v from the same bar in the panel. Better consult an electrician!
Recently added 4 atmos channels so I added the Emotiva XPA-3 for the front stage. Worked exactly as you outlined let alone made the whole front stage sound even better. I am running Paradigm Prestige so they are pretty efficient but the extra power still made a difference.
How to add an external amplifier to my main lcr in denon x6700h through preouts without using internal amplifier of the unit could you solve my query... thank you 😊
@@vhariharasudhan7215 I am not familiar with the Denon units. On my Pioneer Elite, in the settings there were a variety of speaker configurations to choose from which essentially reassigned the LCR channels to different ones. I would check your manual/look it up to see what it recommends or just dig through the various settings. I dug through the settings and eventually found the options. Good luck!
I have Pioneer VSX-932 AV receiver that I love the way is sound specially for 2 channel stereo music but only have preout for 2 subwoofer even so sound amazing , so I bought 2 Russound ADP-1.2 Speaker Level to Line Level Adapter with this I can hook up external power amps to my receiver so I got a very good deal for 2 used AudioSource Amp Three 2 Channel Power Amplifier 150w pc ,hook it up for my front stage channels and even my 3 powered subwoofer sound more vivid. For those that doesn't have AV receivers with pre out channels this adapter will do the job well done so you save money and will keep your lovely old receiver
The Front three channels get the bulk of the sound from movie soundtracks so getting those off your AVR will greatly improve the headroom for your other channels. Getting a three channel amp first then add additional amps later if you feel the need is a great way to go.
Got it. The wording used in my 7.1 AVR manual is: 115 watts for two channels driven; 100 watts for all channels driven. I could definitely tell via some music in 2 ch stereo mode, the speakers are lively and punchy but as soon as I change to a surround mode I can hear the drop off in power in the front 2 speakers...
Once you hear separates you can't go back! Buying the emotiva 7 channel was one of the best things I did. Will buy a 4 channel in the future for the atmos speakers
i returned the first LX505 because the chip had gotten corrupted as a result of a speaker wire short. Got the replacement and have been very pleased. But then I ordered and connected a Tonewinner AD7300PA + and have been even more pleased and impressed, I do wish I could control the crossovers independently and the subs were separated but those aren't deal breakers. In Australia the Onkyo RZ50 was 200.00 more than the Pioneer. I've had no trouble getting into the menu. If i would warn about anything it would be about speaker connections and wire shorts, which can be potentially disastrous
This is definitely something that I think a lot of people don't understand about their AVR's. Good info to put out there and I hope everyone understands it. Underpowered speakers get the job done but often don't sound as great I want all of my speakers to punch me in the chest.
I have a Denon X8500HA. That could power my 9.2.4 setup just fine, but since I'm running three Klipsch RF-7 III's as my LCR, I really wanted them to sing, so I got an external amp for just my front stage. That will give more power to the rest of my speakers, too.
These companies really should be held accountable and release the real information for all channels driven from 20hz to 20khz and I'm pretty sure the real numbers would shock people how low the wattage drops when you run 5/7/9 channels from one reciever. Once you switch to a reciever plus a power amp it makes such a massive difference or to a reciever such as audio control which gives you actual ratings for all channels driven. It's shame because the amount of money you need to spend jumps to a few thousand to get proper sound processing and amplification to get it sound amazing. This is also the reason why people blow tweeters in speakers because they are using a low power reciever and cranking it up and the power supplies in these denon/marantz/pioneer can't handle the load and the distortion goes up so high the speakers get damaged.
Valid points. I agree I wish there were better regulation myself. But from a marketing standpoint, 140 W per channel to channel driven sounds much better and 55 watts by 7 lol
@@Youthman It's interesting because 2 channel amps ARE held to a different standard because of a Sylvania lawsuit wayback, but recievers are allowed to claim whatever they want like it's the wild west lol. Marantz has a 70% guarantee on all of their recievers for power ratings, that's like claiming a car engine can only perform 70% of what it actually claims, it can go 200* mph but *actually it can only go 140 mph*. If you ever get the chance please do a review on an audio control or McIntosh reciever/sound processor they are in a different league than marantz or anthem.
The EU is going to regulate power claims, unfortunately recent events in Europe has slowed the process...just like getting apple to use a standard charging port in the EU...
@@Echo-jg8is Hopefully this happens sooner rather than later, distortion is also something that should be looked at. If you have ever had a center channel that's hard to understand while running a lower model reciever its because of low power and high distortion, alot of the recievers jump up to 5/10% distortion if not higher when pushed very hard.
Also, This is a great way to upgrade overtime. Maybe you add a three channel amplifier at first. Then as funds become available, maybe you buy a four channel amplifier for your surround speakers. There’s definitely lots of reasons why some people have multiple amplifiers. I love having all 11 channels in one chassis just to save space.
Some people also don't realize how important speaker impedance is...a lot of those little surround speakers are 6 or even 4ohm...and that can really push some receivers to their limits...sometimes it lets out the magic smoke...lol
I've been watching you for the last few months and I must say I built my new system based on what you might recommend.. I've have a Klipsch premier 7.2.4 Dolby Atmos system in my man cave downstairs for the 4 years. I recently just sold my Sony vpl-55es projector, vutec 120 inch screen and Denon x4200w receiver. I replaced it with the Marantz 7015 ,135 inch 16:9 1.1 gain screen. I'm using my friend's meridian amplifier to power the front center, left, right and rear surrounds. The Marantz will handle the side surrounds and my 4 in ceiling Atmos speakers. The meridian can give us 200 watts so we're talking about some incredible sound. I bought the JVC nz7 laser projector and the image is really incredible! I've only had it a week but it's incredible what the projector can handle by itself without me having to do a thing. The biggest surprise I've had so far was having the option to raise the HDR level from 0 to either+2 or-2. I felt the screen needed just a little more pop so I set the HDR to +1 and wow did I get a nice pop which really made the picture come to life. The only other thing I've done was change the 6500 Kelvin to 7500. I just gravitate to a little cooler image. There's much more to learn but I'm loving the frame adapt feature as well as the theater optimizer. The biggest question I have for you is how should I set my Sony 4k HDR player and Roku ultra up in regards to the Marantz receiver. I always get confused as to whether I'm supposed to use the video processing in the Marantz or let the JVC to the processing. How would you set your Marantz 8015 when going to the JVC nz7? Do I use the passthrough on the marantz and use the upscaling from the JVC. I'm still somewhat of a novice but could you tell me the video settings you would have on your Marantz when going to the JVC. My 4k player and Roku are booked up to the Marantz and I have that 4k HDMI high end cable up to the projector in the monitor out. I'd love any suggestions.. Love your videos so much and you're such a humble guy. Half of my problem is I'm in a wheelchair (car accident a loooooongg time ago) and it does make things a little difficult. I've been fortunate enough to have family including nieces and nephews that love watching movies... I'm 57 years old and this will be my last theater room. I'm very grateful the JVC nz7 laser came out at the perfect time for me so it should last me and be somewhat future proof with the 8k eshift. Maybe one day I'll be showing you my home theater here in Homer Glen, Illinois. God bless, Nick Hernandez
Hey Nic you have a fantastic set up. I know you have to be loving the new NZ7. I would recommend letting it do the video processing as it should do a better job than the AVR.
Best thing I've done to improve my home theatre was adding a 3 channel emotiva basx a3 to my denon avrx3600h. Now considering the a2 to power my ft atmos speaker's, thanks for all the the great tips and advice. Best wishes from across the pond!
Yes indeed. Great thumbnail, great editing, and most importantly great info. I have followed your journey, and man I must say, with time and perseverance comes mastery. You deserve that 100,000. See you soon
I offloaded the LCR channels with a emotiva basx a3 after watching your review. Hopefully my Denon 3700 will run a little less stressed now. You have got me thinking though, about distressing it even further by adding a basx a4 and leaving the AVR to just run my atmos. More 💰💰💰 I'm afraid😁
If it reaches the volume you listen to with clarity and authority, no need for more amplification. Hardest part about this hobby is choosing our needs over our wants. 🤣
It’s so true external amplification is the way to go. I’m using the denon 6700h for my 4 surrounds and atmos and for the front stage i’m using a emotiva xpa3 gen 3. When doing that i noticed a huge improvement in the surround and atmos. I might add 2 basx 4 channel amps later on but i feel like i don’t really need it hahaha Get video as always! Oh and btw the rf7-iii’s rock like you said in other videos !🔥
So you get better separation by adding an external amp? I'm considering that...I'd have to anyways if I wanted to add rear heights in the future. All the amped channels are filled right now on my x4700h (7.2.2).
Extremely useful information. Very crystal clear. My question is if I add the Extremely amp will I still get the dolby atmos sound output on all the speaker. How does the external amp work with the av receiver connection
I'm running my LCR on a separate 5 channel amp while the remaining 4 surrounds are powered via the AVR. Allowing your equipment to have plenty of head room will allow it to stay cooler and run more efficient. The one thing that has always been true in my 30years of working with sound tech is ALWAYS buy a larger amp than what the speakers are rated for. Remember, you can always turn the volume down. Give your speakers clean, easy power, not dirty, distorted power.
i have come to relaise this by watching channels like this and others over the last few months, once funding is there am tempted to get a 3 channel amp for my LCR
Let's not forget power draw from outlets. It really should be a dedicated circuit. With subs, TV, amps, etc... you could be drawing over 2,500 watts or more. Hopefully it's not on the same circuit as your other appliances.
@@qua7771 Once it's finally settled on the permanent layout of things (who am I kidding. Nothing in this hobby is permanent lol), I'll be running 2 20 amp circuits.
@@mephInc I'd make sure that both circuits are pulling 120v from the same leg of the 230v in your panel. If not it usually wouldn't be an issue, but I can think of a few rare scenarios where it would. I decided on using a full sign wave UPS, (two of them actually). They are much cheaper than replacing equipment, and not much more expensive than a good power conditioner. There is a lot of lightning, and frequent power outages in my area. They also insure good clean power. Before my current set-up, I noticed the lights dimming when my subs powered up. The UPS's allow you to monitor your power consumption, and offer an alternative power source during outages. I'm not trying to spend your money, but something to consider.
I'm surprised more people don't do this, I have one of those unicorn receivers that tested way better than provided measurements so I use the built in amps to power my rear surrounds and external amps for the rest. Great money saver.
Great video and advice for adding an amplifier! I have an Onkyo TX RZ810. This info in adding on amplifier will DEFINITELY help the receiver run more efficiently. Thank you for explaining the breakdown! ❤
I have a 5.2.2 system in my theater which was being powered by a Denon x3400. I picked up a used NAD amp which I'm using for my LCR to take some pressure off the Denon. Now the Denon only powering the back surround and 2 atmos speakers I feel the overall quality has improved and the amp seems to help quality of 2 channel music. I may look to upgrade to an Emotiva amp but for now I'm happy!
Sir, you are the best that is the best explanation I have ever heard in my 15 years of playing my equipment Thank you so much. but I do have a question I have another receiver. Can I use that as my second power amplification instead of buying a new amplifier ?
Michael, I've been running home theater speakers in a 5.2.1 setup and had no idea what the pre-outs were for! Might be time for an upgrade on the front stage! 🤔😉
Excellent content. Running a Marantz SR7013 which is fantastic driving old school Sandy Gross Definitive Super Towers Front & Rear BP7001 & BP7002 w/ Polk R400 Center just added a XPA-5 Gen3 5.................once hooked up incredible! As you mentioned now the outdoor speakers Klipsch running to SR7013 have greater power due to well you know!
Thanks for the explanation. This may explain why my Denon AVR-x3500h does such a poor job of driving my B&W 5.1 system. I never had an issue with my Yamaha RX-V659 receiver. I had to upgrade (I really wouldn't call it an upgrade) because everything moved to HDMI.
Mike, actually the Yamaha doesn’t. - www.audioholics.com/av-receiver-reviews/yamaha-rx-v659/#toc-h2-2 Very few AVR’s can provide what they claim with all channels driven. Some brands like Denon and Marantz guarantee a 70% power with all channels driven. Thomas, the issue is your BMW speakers are quite inefficient, therefore, take a lot of power to reach their full potential.
Actually just bought a Marantz 5015! Totally intend on getting a 3 channel power to power my 3 fronts and have the Marantz power the surrounds and heights. Great video!
This is why I gained a bunch of respect for NAD and how they rate their all there AVRs and Amps. AVRs are rated for all channels driven and bench tests will show a few watts more across all channels.
@@Youthman I added a venerable Nad 2200 found discarded on someone’s nature strip (ie verge) to my T778 and it made a huge difference. Hugely noticeable for stereo use, but also for surround (7.2.2).
RX-a6a Yamaha I use to power Revels F36's in a 7.2 set up. It's a basement media room all open, about 1200 square feet. It sounds great. I'm just not sure if I really need further amplification just for the LCR's. 12 -15 ft is the seating area from the system/TV area.
Better to look at the back and see the watts of the transformer. The watts of the transformer divided by the number of speakers will give you the maximum per speaker.
Great explanation video. That’s why I would say buy Nad, Arcam or something similar, you get real stats and products that doesn’t get renewed every year with tiny incremental features.
@@Youthman Absolutely, I would say that going from one of the brands above there is a less chance you will feel the need to add external amplification. And mixing amplification types also comes at a certain cost of cohesiveness. If we are very picky that is.. But these are just my personal opinions of course :)
I would agree. Whether or not someone needs additional amplification also depends on various factors such as room size, how far they sit from the speakers, how loud they listen, and how sensitive their speakers are. If you have a really small room, don’t listen very loud, sit pretty close, and have sensitive speakers, do you likely don’t need a lot of power lol
No, why would you lose surround effects using an external amp? The AVR or Processor sends each channel’s info to the amp and then from the amp to the speakers.
I run my 9.4.0 as Youthman suggests with the 11 channel processing (9 internal amps) 110 wpc Marantz 6011. That's the atypical configuration of 7.4.0 + 2 Heights. An Emotiva XPA-5 runs L/C/R and the AVR powers everything else which it easily does without the heavy demand of the L/C/R. I get a huge front sound stage and great dynamics. Using the AVR power alone would get me LOUD but without the dynamics an external amp adds.
Thank You for this information, I have an emotiva basx3 for my left/right and center and a basx7 for 4 atmos speakers and my left/right surround and my Denon AVR powered up the right and left side surround, it’s a day and night difference when you add amps and alíviate the AVR.
A point worth making is that there are benefits outside of more power. The less channels per power supply, the cleaner the sound (all else being equal). Also, I suspect a much lower noise floor is on offer if your receiver isn’t using any of it’s on-board amplifiers. Too much fixation on power in home theatre, IMO, so many think that a power amps only benefit is ‘more’ power.
Headroom, dynamics, better bass even at lower volume, More separation of musical instruments….anything else I have forgotten to include? You have to realize as content creators, we cannot can’t make every possible point in every video we make or they will each be 1hr long
I prefer Nad or even Cambridge Audio for this reason - they publish their power figures at all-channels-driven and also with respectable THD percentages (definitely with Nad, not sure about CA).
It's not always like that I have 200w × 9 on my Denon avc x4 700h and that rating is on 4 ohms,of course it doesn't say that when in reality is more like 80w ×9 and I'm being optimistic here,and the worst part is I believed it,I left this hobby for 30 when I came back everything was different,the last upgrade before getting back was from VCR 4 channel to dvd 5.1 Dolby digital.
I’ve been adding an outlaw 7000x to the cart and removing it from the cart for the past several weeks. Even though these are budget amps, they’re still expensive. Plus it’s annoying they don’t make a 9000x which would solve my issues as the 7000x leaves two channels still using internal power (meaning I can’t use pre amp mode on my Denon 3700). Are there are cheap 2 channel amps one can use to power the remaining two atmos speakers? Great video btw and love your content. Just subbed a few weeks ago.
I never knew this was the case but it makes sense! I always assumed they had some way of supplying the rated 2ch power no matter how many channels were connected. It makes seperates make so much more sense now. Just thought it would be good to mention the Aiyima A07 for people on a real tight budget. You could get 4 channels for $160 that way. That might be something I see in my future
@@Youthman there have been a few content creators who have done videos on the Aiyima A07 but Nick over at toids diy audio has a pretty good one talking about upgrading the power supply as well. Alot of people seem to really Iike that little amp
I have heard of people using preouts to go into a second AVR and using the AVR’s’s internal amplification to power speakers. I have just not done that myself
hmmm.. That sounds like a fun expirament. My old Onkyo has some decent power and dual bi-amp ability. The video processor went out a while ago so now I am on a Denon that has a lot less power. Both are 7.1.
Great video! I have recently gone from all AVR power, to a 7 channel A700 Emotiva with the Denon X3700, it sounds really great but need another two channels for 4 Atmos... I have always wondered if the increase in sound quality is noticable running the amp in full pre-amp mode vs running even two channels from the AVR, as all amps are then operating. Has this ever been tested/measured? Thanks
Two questions for anyone, if I may - 1) Multiple amps...I'm looking at adding my first amp as a step toward separates and am considering the Tonewinner AD-8300 (most budget-friendly option I have found). If at some time I wanted to upgrade to a 16-channel processor, how would I configure the inputs of an additional 5-channel amp? Can they be assigned? 2) If I added rear heights to my bedroom/H/T would I be able to tell they were even there? My single chair is against the back wall, and the only place it could go would be high almost directly above my head. I have a 7.2.2 system using a combination of Klipsch (LCR, front heights) and Polk (satellites) for my surrounds and run it with a Denon X4700H AVR.
I think the tower speakers need more power since it has at least one woofer more. So giving more power than Avr gives better low frequency effect. I am also considering Amp for 3 channels and Avr with preout, as I have upgraded to 3 way towers (with 2 woofers apart from midrange driver) and 3 way centre from 2 way bookshelf LCR.
Youthman, love the video as always, you make incredibly detailed content. I had a question however. The question is about which emotiva amp I should purchase for my set up. 1. Emotiva basX a3 (powering my front stage 2. Emotiva basX a5 (powering either my front stage and potentially rear surrounds in the future or to power my atmos) 3. Emotiva Xpa 5 Gen 1. I can find each amp for around $500 Currently I have a Denon 4500h Avr, Martin logan 15i book shelf speakers and a martin logan 30 as my front stage. That coupled with an svs 2000sb and 4 sonance atmos speakers complete my 3.1.4 experience. (I know rather unorthodox but I don't have a left wall to add surround speakers and make this a 5.1.4.
Thank you for the kind words. If you can find an XPA5 for the same price as a basics a five, to me it’s a no-brainer I would get the XPA5. You can never go wrong with having more power. Just tempest the amp beforehand to make sure it’s working properly.
@@Youthman initially I felt the same way. My concern was with he xpa5 gen 1 being as old as it is, is it more susceptible to problems? Has the technology improved enough overtime that although the basX doesn't have the same Wpc, it has better clarity or more refinement? Thanks again for taking the time to respond.
For the most part amplifiers haven’t changed very much. You would be hard-pressed to hear the differences between them unless something is wrong. There is always a risk when buying used equipment especially electronics. But that is a risk you have to decide if you’re willing to take in exchange for the massive savings you’re getting
I love your videos, so easy to understand. I do have a question; i see the height 1 and 2 are used for ceiling atmos but what is height 3 front wide used for? is it voice of God( top dead center ) how do you set up the height speakers for the best Atmos sound?
Thank you kindly. It can be used for Height 3 (like if you have six in-ceiling speakers) or you can use that as your front wide channels. You assign it in Amp Assign section of the setup menu.
Super well explained. So in short, running as many amps (one for rears, one for LCR, one for atmos, one or two for subs etc) is the best solution? I have done that, and im running super fine. Enough power for each speakers. No distortion, no issue. :-)
Thank you kindly. As long as you can provide adequate power to your speakers, that’s a good solution. I have one single 11ch amplifier and your ears will give out well before the speakers do.
THE BEST 11.2 CHANNEL AVR ON THE MARKET FOR THE PRICE IS DENON AVR 6700H UP HERE IN CANADA I PICKED IT UP FOR $1,450 CDN OR $ 1,090 USD AS IT WAS REPLACED BY DENON AVR 6800 H AT A PRICE OF $4,300 CDN OR $3,200 USD THIS WAS BOUGHT FROM VISION ELECTRONICS CANADA.
Thank you kindly. I have never owned monoblocks. A lot depends on how sensitive your speakers are, how big your room, how far away you sit from your speakers and how loud you listen.
Hmm I took down all my surround and atmos speakers and have external amps but right now was just using the denon to power some 2 ch towers but the speaker setup still had all the speakers in the setup , I thought I might hook them back up but I since reprogrammed the receiver telling It I only have 2.1 hooked up . I wonder if that gave more power to my 2 channels or would the other speakers have to be hooked up and playing to draw away power or would it still draw power even tho they weren’t hooked up but programmed as if they were . ? It doesn’t matter just curious .
HI. I have a Yamaha rx-v585 80 watts x 2 channels. I have a 5.1.2 setup, my front speakers are Polk Rti A1(Left&Right) and my center is polk CSI A4. The speakers are rated at 20 to 125 watts. Is my receiver delivering enough power to my speakers to not hurt them.
I have a 5.1.2 AV system. Sony Receiver does not have pre-outs bumper. I'm using Polk T50 speakers' front (speakers). Will more power, increase sound quality in the speakers? How can I get more power buy new Av Receiver.
So I have a den and AVR - S540BT wanna add a amplifier to it but I don't know which one is the best for it Any suggestions As of right now I'm pushing 4 speakers and I plan on adding 6 more
I’m bi amp my DENON AVRX 6500H for the front speakers. The other 7 channels are going to my Emotiva UPA 700. If I don’t bi amp with my DENON the fronts , am I going to increase power for my fronts ?
Plus newer acts lack treble and bass in most contenta I have to turn them all the way up same with eq and some things sound no clearer and more dynamic and some do
But not all AVR’s will do this when using an external amp. Like Arcam for example. They have exact watts on each channel. Doesn’t matter if ya have external amps. But Arcam is also the best company that gives exact measurements of their products. Food for thought
They can work fine for home theater. Typically you want to replace the fan because they’re often loud and you’ll need quite a few of them because they typically are only stereo amplifiers.
A bit odd piece of info (disinfo?)… I can’t recall anytime in the last 20 years where an amplifier (specifically a surround AVR) can only output its rated power to 2 channels. In fact I just looked at two of my ancient receiver boxes and manuals (an 18 year old Yamaha RX-v661 and 15 year old RX-v663) and their output power is 110w x 7. The interesting tidbit is that both receivers have outputs for 9 speakers (as they’re multi room / multi channel units). The only way you rob Peter to pay Paul is when utilizing the B set of output terminal AND running that second set of speakers while running the other 7 outputs, but simultaneously by bridging those two front outputs (A/B) you multiply the power going to your fronts for stereo music use and can drive much larger speakers (in my case Klipsch’s)…
Maan this is exactly what's bugging me. I watched a Emo basx 5 go for $500 and I just sat there. I've done my 5yr apprenticeship lol, entry level with a Sony STR-DN1080. I'm still using it now and managed to get my hand of a pair of Sony SS-X90ED towers in mint condition! These 8ohm 200watts b&w 804 lookalikes have a sensitivity level of 90db. I like 'em but I can't run a 5.1 and experience them in true form. I want a Basx3 at least but not sure if this DN1080 zone 2 sightings is my pre?! Any suggestions?
If the receiver can deliver 2x110w in a stereo setup; total of 220w. How can the receiver deliver 5x80w = 400w when in a 5.1? Where does the extra power come from, or why does the receiver only deliver 220w in stereo, when it obviously can deliver 400w?
Thank you for your great reviews and comments What can I replace my 8805a marantz receiver to? The reason is I upgraded all my components thank you so much
Thank you daee. My question to you is what does your 8805a not do that you need it to? If you absolutely love how your system looks and sounds, there's nothing wrong with sitting back and enjoying what you have built. Do you have multiple subwoofers? If so, do you have a miniDSP 2x4HD to dial them in? If not, I would highly consider getting one - ruclips.net/video/_ZxbM_s4vh0/видео.html
@@Youthman Thank you for your response I have MC901S and and Bowers and Wilkins 801D4 plus 2 sx212 rel and the matching Center And Rear speakers plus 2 Dolby atmos Just wanted to make sure I have the right processor Thanks again
Wow! What an incredible system you have put together. I love my Marantz AV7705. If I were to upgrade to something better, the next step would be a Trinnov or Storm Audio. But like I said, if you love how it sounds, no real reason to chase the rabbit.
OK, I understand the concept of power dividing when adding more than a basic F/L and F/R speakers. IF you have a bunch of surround speakers hooked up (amp loaded), don't those speakers need to be producing sound to cause a drop of power to the main L/R speakers? Just having more speakers "connected" shouldn't do squat to the available power to the main front L and front R, right? 90% of the movies I watched hardly have ANY amount of information (sound) sent to my sides, overheads, or rear speakers. 90% of the sound I hear comes from L/C/R channels. I don't get it.
@Youthman Perfect video for the question I asked you the other day about adding another amp for my 7.1.2 setup with my Marantz 9.2 AVR. Probably going to go with the OSD 7-channel amp you recommended and bi-amp the RP8000FII’s 😄 Never have bi-amped anything before so any tips are appreciated. Also have 5000F’s and 600M’s that could be bi-amped but don’t know if that would be better or not. Also, would you recommend keeping all of the speakers set to small and let the SPL150 do the work? Thought about running the fronts as large
Bi-amping will give you marginal improvement in the midrange at best. I've found my speakers are more dynamic when I DON'T bi-amp. It's for the same reasons Youthman pointed out in this video. If you don't further divide the power available into bi-amping then each speaker has more power available to it. You will get better dynamics without the bi-amp IMO.
@@voiceofreason9238 thanks for your response! Yeah, I was debating whether or not to because the 8000F’s are rated 150/600 watts. Either way, I’m looking to take off some of the workload from my AVR so it doesn’t have to process and power all 9 channels
@@Sebastiano1394 bi-amping is best done when you have no more than two channels per power supply, IMO. Even then, I’ve always found the result better by instead using the bridge mode. I think it’s because when regular bi-amping each of your amplifiers are still working to produce the full range of audio and the crossover simply eats the bass from your top half and the mid and upper from your bottom half.
I glanced at the 8015 manual before, and had one thought but went, "nah." Now seeing this and looked a second time, and now I'm just speculating. I wish it were possible to relay the front L & R to external amp - as they're very meaty towers. Then just use remaining internal for the remaining speaker level outputs. And that would even allow for a third pair of Atmos from the receiver.
You can use an external amp for your LR but you cannot route the internal amps for the L&R to surround speakers. Sometimes an AVR will let you do that with Zone 2 channels.
@@Youthman ... I thought as much on second glance. Seems like an untapped opportunity to assign the speaker outputs a little better. But you and I both know the 8015 still dishes the sound out of the box.
@@Youthman hello youth man...is there any significant difference between 8012 vs 8015 except 4k vs 8k? In sound quality power and dynamics? In what way 8015 is better.
Great video!! Question - Will that external amp not start dividing the power amongst all of its channels as well? It almost sounds like discrete (or dual channel) amplifiers would be required in order to not suffer the effects of channel saturation.
Most external amplifiers are designed to provide equal power to all channels driven. Some of the higher channel amps like my Monolith 11X provide lower wattage to some channels (200x3 + 100x8). Emotiva XPA 11 does 300x3 + 65x8
When you ad an amp to the system will the amp driven channels volume be balanced with the non amp channels when you are watching a multi channel movie?
On my yamaha system , i always shut off on the receiver my surround channels when just listening to music in stereo mode, seems to sound way better and more dynamic than when the surround channels are engaged but not acitvated on the receiver.
New subscriber. How does the onkyo TX RZ50 do with 5.1? Is it 120watts per channel as advertised? I hear great things about the receiver. Currently have a denon 960H, but considering onkyo.
From my perspective, the companies can't really provide the exact wattage for all channels driven bcs that changes accordingly to our speaker's impedance and wattage. They could provide wattage for all channels for 8ohms like all klipsch speakers does but not everyone running 8ohms. It just comes down to our own calculation and listening...
Speakers have a nominal impedance meaning it’s typical impedance but that changes depending on what content is being played. Klipsch RF7 have a nominal impedance of 8 ohms but they can dip down to around 2.4ohms. Amp companies can calculate what their amp can produce at 8ohms, 4ohms and 2ohm loads. AVR’s don’t do it because those numbers do not sell.
You mean 44 watts to each speaker on a 5 .1. 110x2 watts normally, if you add the center and 2 sides that's 240 watts ÷ 5 speakers which is 44 watts not 80 or 85
Couple of things I've picked up over the years:
1) Denon/Marantz guarantee their 5 channel driven numbers are 70% of the 2 channel number across the x3700h and up.
2) Whether you need external amps really depends on listening levels and efficiency of the speakers and distance to the speakers. If you have your side surrounds really far away compared to your fronts it might make more sense to sense to put the extra power their way assuming they can handle it.
3) Another thing you didn't mention is that a lot of higher end AVRs that have the pre-outs can actually process more channels then they can power so for example the x3700h and x6700h can process 11 and 13 channels respectively but can only power 9 and 11 channels so it can also be used to unlock better speaker configurations.
4) Lastly don't forget to bump up your crossovers after running room correction as room correction generally sets the crossover at the in room -3db point but it isn't accounting for compression or distortion at louder volumes where more power is needed.
Edit: forgot to mention but great video as always :)
Thank you Tyler. Great points as well
Thanks for your points. 1-3 are clear. I am not sure I understand your fi Al point though. What do you mean that room correction set the crossover at -3db?
@@HarryM2022 Let's say you have speaker that plays +/- 3db from 50hz-20khz in an anechoic chamber. However due to room acoustics such as boundary gain that speaker might measure at your seat that it plays 3db queiter at 30hz or 40hz or even worse it will set it to large instead of small. However just because you have output there doesn't mean that you want to use it as there's generally a lot of distortion/compression in the bass (look at Erin's Audio Corner's speaker measurements). Also have to consider that a subwoofer has a much larger driver and a ton more power so it doing 80hz stuff is trivial for it whereas a 5, 6, or 8" woofer that also has to play to 2000hz+ is really struggling as visually expressed by lots of movement from the woofer. Also crossovers aren't on off switches with most AVRs doing 12db/octave high pass filters for main speakers and 24db/octave low pass filters for the subs so with an 80hz crossover your mains will be playing 12db quieter at 40hz. However on the flip side going to high can cause you to localize the bass so going passed around 110-120hz isn't recommended unless you have tiny speakers with 3" drivers.
@@TylerStout OK, I get what you mean. Thanks for the detailed message.👍
The Marantz 70% guarantee doesn't mean much on a 9 channel receiver. I added a MM7055 amp for the front three, because there was no way I was going to expect a receiver to handle a 9 channel load. Especially with Kef R series speakers. It could but why risk it IMO.
To be fair, there are a few things I'd like to add:
the subs do take a substantial load off of the AVR.
In stereo listening, your only powering two speakers.
For theater use, the center channel is doing most of the heavy lifting, and sounds move around the sound field. Rarely are all the speaker driven at once.
The receivers power supply has capacitors for intermittent power demand.
I have my system on a UPS, and my SR7011 receiver rarely pulls over 200W total at loud volume with 7 channels driven, and fairly inefficient speakers (86db/w@1M). If it's drawing less than 200W then the output to the speakers might be half considering all the processing etc... That's about as loud as I can stand in a 2,000 cu ft room. I'm running 6.2.4 (a single rear) with the front three through the amp. With the amp I'm noticing less distortion. I cannot comment on sound staging because my room acoustics aren't perfect. Overall I think adding an amp is a good investment.
The caveat being that you'll need a dedicated mains power source for all this equipment, (2 subs, a TV, receiver, amp, and accessories). A 20A dedicated outlet may not be enough. If you are plugging things in to multiple circuits you could end up with problems if they are not drawing 110v from the same bar in the panel. Better consult an electrician!
Clear and concise, I didn’t realize power allocation in an AVR worked this way, thank you!
Recently added 4 atmos channels so I added the Emotiva XPA-3 for the front stage. Worked exactly as you outlined let alone made the whole front stage sound even better. I am running Paradigm Prestige so they are pretty efficient but the extra power still made a difference.
That’s awesome! And with Paradigm not being moderately efficient speakers, they really benefit from having a dedicated amplifier for your front LCR.
How to add an external amplifier to my main lcr in denon x6700h through preouts without using internal amplifier of the unit could you solve my query...
thank you 😊
@@vhariharasudhan7215 I am not familiar with the Denon units. On my Pioneer Elite, in the settings there were a variety of speaker configurations to choose from which essentially reassigned the LCR channels to different ones. I would check your manual/look it up to see what it recommends or just dig through the various settings. I dug through the settings and eventually found the options. Good luck!
I have Pioneer VSX-932 AV receiver that I love the way is sound specially for 2 channel stereo music but only have preout for 2 subwoofer even so sound amazing , so I bought 2 Russound ADP-1.2 Speaker Level to Line Level Adapter with this I can hook up external power amps to my receiver so I got a very good deal for 2 used AudioSource Amp Three 2 Channel Power Amplifier 150w pc ,hook it up for my front stage channels and even my 3 powered subwoofer sound more vivid. For those that doesn't have AV receivers with pre out channels this adapter will do the job well done so you save money and will keep your lovely old receiver
Hi I need help like this I've got the pioneer vsx-534 and wanting more power for speakers don't know what to do plz
The Front three channels get the bulk of the sound from movie soundtracks so getting those off your AVR will greatly improve the headroom for your other channels. Getting a three channel amp first then add additional amps later if you feel the need is a great way to go.
100%
i want to do this once funding is there
@@outerheaven1000 comme nous tous mon ami✋🙏
Got it. The wording used in my 7.1 AVR manual is: 115 watts for two channels driven; 100 watts for all channels driven. I could definitely tell via some music in 2 ch stereo mode, the speakers are lively and punchy but as soon as I change to a surround mode I can hear the drop off in power in the front 2 speakers...
Once you hear separates you can't go back! Buying the emotiva 7 channel was one of the best things I did. Will buy a 4 channel in the future for the atmos speakers
i returned the first LX505 because the chip had gotten corrupted as a result of a speaker wire short. Got the replacement and have been very pleased. But then I ordered and connected a Tonewinner AD7300PA + and have been even more pleased and impressed, I do wish I could control the crossovers independently and the subs were separated but those aren't deal breakers. In Australia the Onkyo RZ50 was 200.00 more than the Pioneer. I've had no trouble getting into the menu. If i would warn about anything it would be about speaker connections and wire shorts, which can be potentially disastrous
This is definitely something that I think a lot of people don't understand about their AVR's. Good info to put out there and I hope everyone understands it. Underpowered speakers get the job done but often don't sound as great
I want all of my speakers to punch me in the chest.
Thank you kindly
I have a Denon X8500HA. That could power my 9.2.4 setup just fine, but since I'm running three Klipsch RF-7 III's as my LCR, I really wanted them to sing, so I got an external amp for just my front stage. That will give more power to the rest of my speakers, too.
how do you enjoy 2 channel music?
These companies really should be held accountable and release the real information for all channels driven from 20hz to 20khz and I'm pretty sure the real numbers would shock people how low the wattage drops when you run 5/7/9 channels from one reciever. Once you switch to a reciever plus a power amp it makes such a massive difference or to a reciever such as audio control which gives you actual ratings for all channels driven. It's shame because the amount of money you need to spend jumps to a few thousand to get proper sound processing and amplification to get it sound amazing. This is also the reason why people blow tweeters in speakers because they are using a low power reciever and cranking it up and the power supplies in these denon/marantz/pioneer can't handle the load and the distortion goes up so high the speakers get damaged.
Valid points. I agree I wish there were better regulation myself. But from a marketing standpoint, 140 W per channel to channel driven sounds much better and 55 watts by 7 lol
@@Youthman It's interesting because 2 channel amps ARE held to a different standard because of a Sylvania lawsuit wayback, but recievers are allowed to claim whatever they want like it's the wild west lol. Marantz has a 70% guarantee on all of their recievers for power ratings, that's like claiming a car engine can only perform 70% of what it actually claims, it can go 200* mph but *actually it can only go 140 mph*. If you ever get the chance please do a review on an audio control or McIntosh reciever/sound processor they are in a different league than marantz or anthem.
The EU is going to regulate power claims, unfortunately recent events in Europe has slowed the process...just like getting apple to use a standard charging port in the EU...
@@Echo-jg8is Hopefully this happens sooner rather than later, distortion is also something that should be looked at. If you have ever had a center channel that's hard to understand while running a lower model reciever its because of low power and high distortion, alot of the recievers jump up to 5/10% distortion if not higher when pushed very hard.
You referencing audio control tells me you are a discriminate audiophile who knows good equipment!
Good One Michael, i never understood why people use multiple Amps in Home Cinema, You have just made a clear explanation. Thank You Very Much
Also, This is a great way to upgrade overtime. Maybe you add a three channel amplifier at first. Then as funds become available, maybe you buy a four channel amplifier for your surround speakers. There’s definitely lots of reasons why some people have multiple amplifiers. I love having all 11 channels in one chassis just to save space.
Some people also don't realize how important speaker impedance is...a lot of those little surround speakers are 6 or even 4ohm...and that can really push some receivers to their limits...sometimes it lets out the magic smoke...lol
I've been watching you for the last few months and I must say I built my new system based on what you might recommend..
I've have a Klipsch premier 7.2.4 Dolby Atmos system in my man cave downstairs for the 4 years.
I recently just sold my Sony vpl-55es projector, vutec 120 inch screen and Denon x4200w receiver.
I replaced it with the Marantz 7015 ,135 inch 16:9 1.1 gain screen. I'm using my friend's meridian amplifier to power the front center, left, right and rear surrounds. The Marantz will handle the side surrounds and my 4 in ceiling Atmos speakers. The meridian can give us 200 watts so we're talking about some incredible sound.
I bought the JVC nz7 laser projector and the image is really incredible! I've only had it a week but it's incredible what the projector can handle by itself without me having to do a thing. The biggest surprise I've had so far was having the option to raise the HDR level from 0 to either+2 or-2. I felt the screen needed just a little more pop so I set the HDR to +1 and wow did I get a nice pop which really made the picture come to life. The only other thing I've done was change the 6500 Kelvin to 7500. I just gravitate to a little cooler image. There's much more to learn but I'm loving the frame adapt feature as well as the theater optimizer.
The biggest question I have for you is how should I set my Sony 4k HDR player and Roku ultra up in regards to the Marantz receiver.
I always get confused as to whether I'm supposed to use the video processing in the Marantz or let the JVC to the processing. How would you set your Marantz 8015 when going to the JVC nz7?
Do I use the passthrough on the marantz and use the upscaling from the JVC. I'm still somewhat of a novice but could you tell me the video settings you would have on your Marantz when going to the JVC. My 4k player and Roku are booked up to the Marantz and I have that 4k HDMI high end cable up to the projector in the monitor out.
I'd love any suggestions..
Love your videos so much and you're such a humble guy. Half of my problem is I'm in a wheelchair (car accident a loooooongg time ago) and it does make things a little difficult. I've been fortunate enough to have family including nieces and nephews that love watching movies...
I'm 57 years old and this will be my last theater room. I'm very grateful the JVC nz7 laser came out at the perfect time for me so it should last me and be somewhat future proof with the 8k eshift.
Maybe one day I'll be showing you my home theater here in Homer Glen, Illinois.
God bless,
Nick Hernandez
Hey Nic you have a fantastic set up. I know you have to be loving the new NZ7. I would recommend letting it do the video processing as it should do a better job than the AVR.
Best thing I've done to improve my home theatre was adding a 3 channel emotiva basx a3 to my denon avrx3600h.
Now considering the a2 to power my ft atmos speaker's, thanks for all the the great tips and advice.
Best wishes from across the pond!
Thank you Peter
Yes indeed. Great thumbnail, great editing, and most importantly great info. I have followed your journey, and man I must say, with time and perseverance comes mastery. You deserve that 100,000. See you soon
Thank you Mike. My first videos are definitely my worst videos lol
NAD has full disclosure power,there pretty modest about there spec ,they always seem to sound more powerful then what they say.
Yes there are a few companies that do a really good job at disclosing accurate power ratings
I bought a nad t758 v3i for this specific reason, so I don't have to worry.
Thank you for the information. I felt the same way recently. Now investing in a3-channel as sure for my fronts
Very well expained, thank you!
Glad you enjoyed the video
Love this video. I have always wondered how power is distributed to speakers and never knew how to get more power. Such a simple solution. Great job!!
Thanks Matt!
I offloaded the LCR channels with a emotiva basx a3 after watching your review. Hopefully my Denon 3700 will run a little less stressed now. You have got me thinking though, about distressing it even further by adding a basx a4 and leaving the AVR to just run my atmos. More 💰💰💰 I'm afraid😁
If it reaches the volume you listen to with clarity and authority, no need for more amplification. Hardest part about this hobby is choosing our needs over our wants. 🤣
It’s so true external amplification is the way to go. I’m using the denon 6700h for my 4 surrounds and atmos and for the front stage i’m using a emotiva xpa3 gen 3. When doing that i noticed a huge improvement in the surround and atmos. I might add 2 basx 4 channel amps later on but i feel like i don’t really need it hahaha Get video as always! Oh and btw the rf7-iii’s rock like you said in other videos !🔥
So you get better separation by adding an external amp? I'm considering that...I'd have to anyways if I wanted to add rear heights in the future. All the amped channels are filled right now on my x4700h (7.2.2).
Extremely useful information. Very crystal clear. My question is if I add the Extremely amp will I still get the dolby atmos sound output on all the speaker. How does the external amp work with the av receiver connection
I'm running my LCR on a separate 5 channel amp while the remaining 4 surrounds are powered via the AVR.
Allowing your equipment to have plenty of head room will allow it to stay cooler and run more efficient.
The one thing that has always been true in my 30years of working with sound tech is ALWAYS buy a larger amp than what the speakers are rated for.
Remember, you can always turn the volume down. Give your speakers clean, easy power, not dirty, distorted power.
I love this 👆👆👆
i have come to relaise this by watching channels like this and others over the last few months, once funding is there am tempted to get a 3 channel amp for my LCR
Let's not forget power draw from outlets. It really should be a dedicated circuit. With subs, TV, amps, etc... you could be drawing over 2,500 watts or more. Hopefully it's not on the same circuit as your other appliances.
@@qua7771
Once it's finally settled on the permanent layout of things (who am I kidding. Nothing in this hobby is permanent lol), I'll be running 2 20 amp circuits.
@@mephInc I'd make sure that both circuits are pulling 120v from the same leg of the 230v in your panel. If not it usually wouldn't be an issue, but I can think of a few rare scenarios where it would. I decided on using a full sign wave UPS, (two of them actually). They are much cheaper than replacing equipment, and not much more expensive than a good power conditioner. There is a lot of lightning, and frequent power outages in my area. They also insure good clean power. Before my current set-up, I noticed the lights dimming when my subs powered up. The UPS's allow you to monitor your power consumption, and offer an alternative power source during outages. I'm not trying to spend your money, but something to consider.
Thank you so much man, I never knew this, I always wondered why they show 2 channel power ratings in AVR , so helpful video,keep up the good work
Thank you kindly
Hey Mike, I Love Your Break Down!!! Like Techno Dad, U Taugh Me Stuff Over The Year's, Believe it or Now!!! Your Breakdowns, Are Just Awesome 👌
Thank you for the kind words Michael glad you enjoyed the video
I'm surprised more people don't do this, I have one of those unicorn receivers that tested way better than provided measurements so I use the built in amps to power my rear surrounds and external amps for the rest. Great money saver.
Great video and advice for adding an amplifier!
I have an Onkyo TX RZ810. This info in adding on amplifier will DEFINITELY help the receiver run more efficiently. Thank you for explaining the breakdown! ❤
Glad the video was helpfil
Glad the video was helpful
I have a 5.2.2 system in my theater which was being powered by a Denon x3400. I picked up a used NAD amp which I'm using for my LCR to take some pressure off the Denon. Now the Denon only powering the back surround and 2 atmos speakers I feel the overall quality has improved and the amp seems to help quality of 2 channel music. I may look to upgrade to an Emotiva amp but for now I'm happy!
Sounds like you have it under control.
Sir, you are the best that is the best explanation I have ever heard in my 15 years of playing my equipment Thank you so much. but I do have a question I have another receiver. Can I use that as my second power amplification instead of buying a new amplifier ?
Glad you found a video helpful. Yes you can use a second AVR’s for power, I just have never done it personally.
Michael, I've been running home theater speakers in a 5.2.1 setup and had no idea what the pre-outs were for! Might be time for an upgrade on the front stage! 🤔😉
Awesome explanation I believe your the first person to address this fully thank you very much.
Glad to help
Well I turned my source level up on my Denon x6500h in inputs it sounds awesome
Excellent content. Running a Marantz SR7013 which is fantastic driving old school Sandy Gross Definitive Super Towers Front & Rear BP7001 & BP7002 w/ Polk R400 Center just added a XPA-5 Gen3 5.................once hooked up incredible! As you mentioned now the outdoor speakers Klipsch running to SR7013 have greater power due to well you know!
Thank you kindly David
Thanks for the explanation. This may explain why my Denon AVR-x3500h does such a poor job of driving my B&W 5.1 system. I never had an issue with my Yamaha RX-V659 receiver. I had to upgrade (I really wouldn't call it an upgrade) because everything moved to HDMI.
That’s because the Yamaha is actually outputting its rated power for every channel…
Mike, actually the Yamaha doesn’t. - www.audioholics.com/av-receiver-reviews/yamaha-rx-v659/#toc-h2-2
Very few AVR’s can provide what they claim with all channels driven. Some brands like Denon and Marantz guarantee a 70% power with all channels driven.
Thomas, the issue is your BMW speakers are quite inefficient, therefore, take a lot of power to reach their full potential.
Actually just bought a Marantz 5015! Totally intend on getting a 3 channel power to power my 3 fronts and have the Marantz power the surrounds and heights. Great video!
Great idea and thank you for watching
This is why I gained a bunch of respect for NAD and how they rate their all there AVRs and Amps.
AVRs are rated for all channels driven and bench tests will show a few watts more across all channels.
NAD AVR’s still could benefit from adding an external amp
@@Youthman I added a venerable Nad 2200 found discarded on someone’s nature strip (ie verge) to my T778 and it made a huge difference. Hugely noticeable for stereo use, but also for surround (7.2.2).
RX-a6a Yamaha I use to power Revels F36's in a 7.2 set up. It's a basement media room all open, about 1200 square feet. It sounds great. I'm just not sure if I really need further amplification just for the LCR's. 12 -15 ft is the seating area from the system/TV area.
Better to look at the back and see the watts of the transformer.
The watts of the transformer divided by the number of speakers will give you the maximum per speaker.
Great explanation video. That’s why I would say buy Nad, Arcam or something similar, you get real stats and products that doesn’t get renewed every year with tiny incremental features.
Even with real power ratings, you still would benefit from an external amp if you are powering more than 7 speakers. NAD aren’t known for high power.
@@Youthman Absolutely, I would say that going from one of the brands above there is a less chance you will feel the need to add external amplification.
And mixing amplification types also comes at a certain cost of cohesiveness. If we are very picky that is..
But these are just my personal opinions of course :)
I would agree. Whether or not someone needs additional amplification also depends on various factors such as room size, how far they sit from the speakers, how loud they listen, and how sensitive their speakers are. If you have a really small room, don’t listen very loud, sit pretty close, and have sensitive speakers, do you likely don’t need a lot of power lol
Great and clear explanation. Don't you loose the surround sound effects if you off load too many speakers to an amplifier?
No, why would you lose surround effects using an external amp? The AVR or Processor sends each channel’s info to the amp and then from the amp to the speakers.
I run my 9.4.0 as Youthman suggests with the 11 channel processing (9 internal amps) 110 wpc Marantz 6011. That's the atypical configuration of 7.4.0 + 2 Heights.
An Emotiva XPA-5 runs L/C/R and the AVR powers everything else which it easily does without the heavy demand of the L/C/R. I get a huge front sound stage and great dynamics. Using the AVR power alone would get me LOUD but without the dynamics an external amp adds.
Thank You for this information, I have an emotiva basx3 for my left/right and center and a basx7 for 4 atmos speakers and my left/right surround and my Denon AVR powered up the right and left side surround, it’s a day and night difference when you add amps and alíviate the AVR.
Great way to set it up!
What processor do you have, I want to upgrade to pull the trigger and switch to a processor and I’m thinking between Marants and emotiva.
Marantz AV7706 - ruclips.net/video/e-Jgr5p8yPE/видео.html
A point worth making is that there are benefits outside of more power. The less channels per power supply, the cleaner the sound (all else being equal). Also, I suspect a much lower noise floor is on offer if your receiver isn’t using any of it’s on-board amplifiers.
Too much fixation on power in home theatre, IMO, so many think that a power amps only benefit is ‘more’ power.
Headroom, dynamics, better bass even at lower volume, More separation of musical instruments….anything else I have forgotten to include? You have to realize as content creators, we cannot can’t make every possible point in every video we make or they will each be 1hr long
@@Youthman for sure! I understand completely. It's just something that I picked up on recently and was itching to share.
Great Video ! Thank you so much for your time ! Greetings from Austria 🇦🇹 Europe
Glad you enjoyed the video Dan
I prefer Nad or even Cambridge Audio for this reason - they publish their power figures at all-channels-driven and also with respectable THD percentages (definitely with Nad, not sure about CA).
It's not always like that I have 200w × 9 on my Denon avc x4 700h and that rating is on 4 ohms,of course it doesn't say that when in reality is more like 80w ×9 and I'm being optimistic here,and the worst part is I believed it,I left this hobby for 30 when I came back everything was different,the last upgrade before getting back was from VCR 4 channel to dvd 5.1 Dolby digital.
This is an outstanding video. Very informative. Thank you.
Thank you David
What a great, clear explanation. Thank you so much 👍👍
Glad you found the video helpful
Good analogy regarding the receiver running out of gas....
Thank you.
I’ve been adding an outlaw 7000x to the cart and removing it from the cart for the past several weeks. Even though these are budget amps, they’re still expensive. Plus it’s annoying they don’t make a 9000x which would solve my issues as the 7000x leaves two channels still using internal power (meaning I can’t use pre amp mode on my Denon 3700). Are there are cheap 2 channel amps one can use to power the remaining two atmos speakers? Great video btw and love your content. Just subbed a few weeks ago.
BasX A2 ($450) or get 2 Outlaw 2220 ($400 each) for your mains, and 7000X for everything else. Or get A2+A7 to save even more $.
Andrew is correct. Lots of options for you to choose from
@@andrewskaterrr I have the A3. Works great. Doesn't even get hot.
I did same thing even bought the 7000x cancelled it then bought it again the next day been stepping up my system step at a time.
Enjoy the journey!
I never knew this was the case but it makes sense! I always assumed they had some way of supplying the rated 2ch power no matter how many channels were connected. It makes seperates make so much more sense now. Just thought it would be good to mention the Aiyima A07 for people on a real tight budget. You could get 4 channels for $160 that way. That might be something I see in my future
Unfortunately not. I’m not familiar with that brand but that’s very affordable power
@@Youthman there have been a few content creators who have done videos on the Aiyima A07 but Nick over at toids diy audio has a pretty good one talking about upgrading the power supply as well. Alot of people seem to really Iike that little amp
Can an old AVR be used to replace the amplifier? Or are there contraindications? Great video, as always!
I have heard of people using preouts to go into a second AVR and using the AVR’s’s internal amplification to power speakers. I have just not done that myself
hmmm.. That sounds like a fun expirament. My old Onkyo has some decent power and dual bi-amp ability. The video processor went out a while ago so now I am on a Denon that has a lot less power. Both are 7.1.
Thanks, I got my all the answers from single video. 👍
Glad you found it helpful.
Great video! I have recently gone from all AVR power, to a 7 channel A700 Emotiva with the Denon X3700, it sounds really great but need another two channels for 4 Atmos... I have always wondered if the increase in sound quality is noticable running the amp in full pre-amp mode vs running even two channels from the AVR, as all amps are then operating. Has this ever been tested/measured? Thanks
Very good video ! Have 7.2 Jamo D600 with Anthem 740. What do you think between emotiva basX A3 and Anthem 325v2 for my front stage !
Two questions for anyone, if I may - 1) Multiple amps...I'm looking at adding my first amp as a step toward separates and am considering the Tonewinner AD-8300 (most budget-friendly option I have found). If at some time I wanted to upgrade to a 16-channel processor, how would I configure the inputs of an additional 5-channel amp? Can they be assigned? 2) If I added rear heights to my bedroom/H/T would I be able to tell they were even there? My single chair is against the back wall, and the only place it could go would be high almost directly above my head. I have a 7.2.2 system using a combination of Klipsch (LCR, front heights) and Polk (satellites) for my surrounds and run it with a Denon X4700H AVR.
Great topic 👍
Appreciate it
I think the tower speakers need more power since it has at least one woofer more. So giving more power than Avr gives better low frequency effect. I am also considering Amp for 3 channels and Avr with preout, as I have upgraded to 3 way towers (with 2 woofers apart from midrange driver) and 3 way centre from 2 way bookshelf LCR.
Youthman, love the video as always, you make incredibly detailed content. I had a question however.
The question is about which emotiva amp I should purchase for my set up.
1. Emotiva basX a3 (powering my front stage
2. Emotiva basX a5 (powering either my front stage and potentially rear surrounds in the future or to power my atmos)
3. Emotiva Xpa 5 Gen 1.
I can find each amp for around $500
Currently I have a Denon 4500h Avr, Martin logan 15i book shelf speakers and a martin logan 30 as my front stage. That coupled with an svs 2000sb and 4 sonance atmos speakers complete my 3.1.4 experience. (I know rather unorthodox but I don't have a left wall to add surround speakers and make this a 5.1.4.
Thank you for the kind words. If you can find an XPA5 for the same price as a basics a five, to me it’s a no-brainer I would get the XPA5. You can never go wrong with having more power. Just tempest the amp beforehand to make sure it’s working properly.
@@Youthman initially I felt the same way. My concern was with he xpa5 gen 1 being as old as it is, is it more susceptible to problems? Has the technology improved enough overtime that although the basX doesn't have the same Wpc, it has better clarity or more refinement? Thanks again for taking the time to respond.
For the most part amplifiers haven’t changed very much. You would be hard-pressed to hear the differences between them unless something is wrong. There is always a risk when buying used equipment especially electronics. But that is a risk you have to decide if you’re willing to take in exchange for the massive savings you’re getting
sir,the sony str 790 av reciever says 145 watts by 7 but at crutchfield it says 90 watts by 7
I love your videos, so easy to understand. I do have a question; i see the height 1 and 2 are used for ceiling atmos but what is height 3 front wide used for? is it voice of God( top dead center ) how do you set up the height speakers for the best Atmos sound?
Thank you kindly. It can be used for Height 3 (like if you have six in-ceiling speakers) or you can use that as your front wide channels. You assign it in Amp Assign section of the setup menu.
Super well explained. So in short, running as many amps (one for rears, one for LCR, one for atmos, one or two for subs etc) is the best solution? I have done that, and im running super fine. Enough power for each speakers. No distortion, no issue. :-)
Thank you kindly. As long as you can provide adequate power to your speakers, that’s a good solution. I have one single 11ch amplifier and your ears will give out well before the speakers do.
THE BEST 11.2 CHANNEL AVR ON THE MARKET FOR THE PRICE IS DENON AVR 6700H UP HERE IN CANADA I PICKED IT UP FOR $1,450 CDN OR $ 1,090 USD AS IT WAS REPLACED BY DENON AVR 6800 H AT A PRICE OF $4,300 CDN OR $3,200 USD THIS WAS BOUGHT FROM VISION ELECTRONICS CANADA.
Great video. Thank you!
Please show us how
Great thumbnail.
Thank you. Trying to get creative 😉
Hi isn't the denon avr 6700h has an internal separate amplification to each channel
Great vid Mike. Thinking about 3 emotiva monoblocks for the front stage. In your opinion, is the monoblocks worth the cost Vs a 3 channel amp?
Thank you kindly. I have never owned monoblocks. A lot depends on how sensitive your speakers are, how big your room, how far away you sit from your speakers and how loud you listen.
Can I modify it by adding powerful power supply that can seriously power all the channels in the receiver???
Hmm I took down all my surround and atmos speakers and have external amps but right now was just using the denon to power some 2 ch towers but the speaker setup still had all the speakers in the setup , I thought I might hook them back up but I since reprogrammed the receiver telling It I only have 2.1 hooked up . I wonder if that gave more power to my 2 channels or would the other speakers have to be hooked up and playing to draw away power or would it still draw power even tho they weren’t hooked up but programmed as if they were . ? It doesn’t matter just curious .
HI. I have a Yamaha rx-v585 80 watts x 2 channels. I have a 5.1.2 setup, my front speakers are Polk Rti A1(Left&Right) and my center is polk CSI A4. The speakers are rated at 20 to 125 watts. Is my receiver delivering enough power to my speakers to not hurt them.
I have a 5.1.2 AV system. Sony Receiver does not have pre-outs bumper. I'm using Polk T50 speakers' front (speakers). Will more power, increase sound quality in the speakers?
How can I get more power buy new Av Receiver.
So I have a den and AVR - S540BT wanna add a amplifier to it but I don't know which one is the best for it Any suggestions As of right now I'm pushing 4 speakers and I plan on adding 6 more
I’m bi amp my DENON AVRX 6500H for the front speakers. The other 7 channels are going to my Emotiva UPA 700. If I don’t bi amp with my DENON the fronts , am I going to increase power for my fronts ?
Plus newer acts lack treble and bass in most contenta I have to turn them all the way up same with eq and some things sound no clearer and more dynamic and some do
Thanks for the info
But not all AVR’s will do this when using an external amp. Like Arcam for example. They have exact watts on each channel. Doesn’t matter if ya have external amps. But Arcam is also the best company that gives exact measurements of their products. Food for thought
Thats good to know. Most consumers do not own Arcam due to the high cost.
Speaking of Budget Amplifiers OSD makes Budget Friendly Amps from 3 channels up-to 7 channels
Yes they do. I just haven’t reviewed any so I recommend what I personally have had experience with.
Youthman, whats your thought on "pro amps" behringer, crown and yamaha for example?
they seem to have great features and much higher outputs.
They can work fine for home theater. Typically you want to replace the fan because they’re often loud and you’ll need quite a few of them because they typically are only stereo amplifiers.
A bit odd piece of info (disinfo?)… I can’t recall anytime in the last 20 years where an amplifier (specifically a surround AVR) can only output its rated power to 2 channels. In fact I just looked at two of my ancient receiver boxes and manuals (an 18 year old Yamaha RX-v661 and 15 year old RX-v663) and their output power is 110w x 7.
The interesting tidbit is that both receivers have outputs for 9 speakers (as they’re multi room / multi channel units). The only way you rob Peter to pay Paul is when utilizing the B set of output terminal AND running that second set of speakers while running the other 7 outputs, but simultaneously by bridging those two front outputs (A/B) you multiply the power going to your fronts for stereo music use and can drive much larger speakers (in my case Klipsch’s)…
Do some research. There are a few brands that guarantee 70% power with 5ch driven.
Maan this is exactly what's bugging me. I watched a Emo basx 5 go for $500 and I just sat there. I've done my 5yr apprenticeship lol, entry level with a Sony STR-DN1080. I'm still using it now and managed to get my hand of a pair of Sony SS-X90ED towers in mint condition! These 8ohm 200watts b&w 804 lookalikes have a sensitivity level of 90db. I like 'em but I can't run a 5.1 and experience them in true form. I want a Basx3 at least but not sure if this DN1080 zone 2 sightings is my pre?! Any suggestions?
Great Explaination - topic to describe for hobbyists.
Thank you kindly
That’s why I sprang a little extra for the marantz 8015. 70 percent guaranteed all channels driven. AH tested and it’s above that.
I reviewed the 8015. It's a beast with a massive power supply. I had no issues powering a 7.1.4 Klipsch system with it (but they are very efficient).
Hey sorry ask again, what do you think about bi amp? worth it? plans to make a review about?
I personally do not see any benefit from biamping
Thanks for the info👍
If the receiver can deliver 2x110w in a stereo setup; total of 220w. How can the receiver deliver 5x80w = 400w when in a 5.1? Where does the extra power come from, or why does the receiver only deliver 220w in stereo, when it obviously can deliver 400w?
Thank you for your great reviews and comments What can I replace my 8805a marantz receiver to? The reason is I upgraded all my components thank you so much
Thank you daee. My question to you is what does your 8805a not do that you need it to? If you absolutely love how your system looks and sounds, there's nothing wrong with sitting back and enjoying what you have built. Do you have multiple subwoofers? If so, do you have a miniDSP 2x4HD to dial them in? If not, I would highly consider getting one - ruclips.net/video/_ZxbM_s4vh0/видео.html
@@Youthman Thank you for your response I have MC901S and and Bowers and Wilkins 801D4 plus 2 sx212 rel and the matching Center And Rear speakers plus 2 Dolby atmos Just wanted to make sure I have the right processor Thanks again
Wow! What an incredible system you have put together. I love my Marantz AV7705. If I were to upgrade to something better, the next step would be a Trinnov or Storm Audio. But like I said, if you love how it sounds, no real reason to chase the rabbit.
@@Youthman I really appreciate it 🙏🏼 you are the best brother
What state are you located in?
OK, I understand the concept of power dividing when adding more than a basic F/L and F/R speakers. IF you have a bunch of surround speakers hooked up (amp loaded), don't those speakers need to be producing sound to cause a drop of power to the main L/R speakers? Just having more speakers "connected" shouldn't do squat to the available power to the main front L and front R, right? 90% of the movies I watched hardly have ANY amount of information (sound) sent to my sides, overheads, or rear speakers. 90% of the sound I hear comes from L/C/R channels. I don't get it.
@Youthman Perfect video for the question I asked you the other day about adding another amp for my 7.1.2 setup with my Marantz 9.2 AVR. Probably going to go with the OSD 7-channel amp you recommended and bi-amp the RP8000FII’s 😄 Never have bi-amped anything before so any tips are appreciated. Also have 5000F’s and 600M’s that could be bi-amped but don’t know if that would be better or not. Also, would you recommend keeping all of the speakers set to small and let the SPL150 do the work? Thought about running the fronts as large
Bi-amping will give you marginal improvement in the midrange at best. I've found my speakers are more dynamic when I DON'T bi-amp.
It's for the same reasons Youthman pointed out in this video. If you don't further divide the power available into bi-amping then each speaker has more power available to it. You will get better dynamics without the bi-amp IMO.
@@voiceofreason9238 thanks for your response! Yeah, I was debating whether or not to because the 8000F’s are rated 150/600 watts. Either way, I’m looking to take off some of the workload from my AVR so it doesn’t have to process and power all 9 channels
@@Sebastiano1394 bi-amping is best done when you have no more than two channels per power supply, IMO. Even then, I’ve always found the result better by instead using the bridge mode. I think it’s because when regular bi-amping each of your amplifiers are still working to produce the full range of audio and the crossover simply eats the bass from your top half and the mid and upper from your bottom half.
When a external amp is added does the original AVR control the sound preference (EQ, bass & treble) of the sound that is sent to the external amp ❓
That is correct. An amplifier simply amplifies the signal that it receives from the AVR.
Hey Mike what's up buddy.? I hope you are doing well my friend.
I’m doing great. Just getting ready for MWAVE!
I glanced at the 8015 manual before, and had one thought but went, "nah." Now seeing this and looked a second time, and now I'm just speculating. I wish it were possible to relay the front L & R to external amp - as they're very meaty towers. Then just use remaining internal for the remaining speaker level outputs. And that would even allow for a third pair of Atmos from the receiver.
You can use an external amp for your LR but you cannot route the internal amps for the L&R to surround speakers. Sometimes an AVR will let you do that with Zone 2 channels.
@@Youthman ... I thought as much on second glance. Seems like an untapped opportunity to assign the speaker outputs a little better. But you and I both know the 8015 still dishes the sound out of the box.
8015 is a beast of an AVR.
@@Youthman hello youth man...is there any significant difference between 8012 vs 8015 except 4k vs 8k? In sound quality power and dynamics? In what way 8015 is better.
For the most part no. I personally would not upgrade to it unless you need 8K or 4K120
Great video!!
Question - Will that external amp not start dividing the power amongst all of its channels as well?
It almost sounds like discrete (or dual channel) amplifiers would be required in order to not suffer the effects of channel saturation.
Most external amplifiers are designed to provide equal power to all channels driven. Some of the higher channel amps like my Monolith 11X provide lower wattage to some channels (200x3 + 100x8). Emotiva XPA 11 does 300x3 + 65x8
@@Youthman Thanks - this video was a real "eye opener" for me - I thought I was pretty 'savvy'... ...not so! 😉
No worries Gary. I never claim to be the expert. There are a lot of people way smarter than I am. I learn something new almost every day too.
When you ad an amp to the system will the amp driven channels volume be balanced with the non amp channels when you are watching a multi channel movie?
Yes because you will run your room correction after you connect an external amp
Deos the denon 8500h have enough audio Headroom
On my yamaha system , i always shut off on the receiver my surround channels when just listening to music in stereo mode, seems to sound way better and more dynamic than when the surround channels are engaged but not acitvated on the receiver.
Now you know why. 😉
New subscriber. How does the onkyo TX RZ50 do with 5.1? Is it 120watts per channel as advertised? I hear great things about the receiver. Currently have a denon 960H, but considering onkyo.
Thanks for subscribing Skeletor. I haven’t reviewed the RZ50 but it looks to be a solid AVR.
@@Youthman thanks let me know If you do.
From my perspective, the companies can't really provide the exact wattage for all channels driven bcs that changes accordingly to our speaker's impedance and wattage. They could provide wattage for all channels for 8ohms like all klipsch speakers does but not everyone running 8ohms. It just comes down to our own calculation and listening...
Speakers have a nominal impedance meaning it’s typical impedance but that changes depending on what content is being played. Klipsch RF7 have a nominal impedance of 8 ohms but they can dip down to around 2.4ohms.
Amp companies can calculate what their amp can produce at 8ohms, 4ohms and 2ohm loads. AVR’s don’t do it because those numbers do not sell.
@@Youthman Surely 👌
You mean 44 watts to each speaker on a 5 .1. 110x2 watts normally, if you add the center and 2 sides that's 240 watts ÷ 5 speakers which is 44 watts not 80 or 85