Why are SUMMONS So CONTROVERSIAL? - Elden Ring Controversy
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- Опубликовано: 1 июл 2024
- Elden Ring and Dark Souls are no strangers to controversy or gatekeeping. The most common one being the eternal debate about summoning other players or spirit ashes, claiming that it hinders the game experience. But how much trutch is there to this? Ranni the witch answers all of your questions in this youtube video!
Wether you played elden ring solo no hit no leveling no blah blah blah or with friends and all the tools that the games provide, we can all agree that the important thing is to have FUN. But one does wonder about the validity of the claims.
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What's YOUR idea of an "intended way" to play Elden Ring? (In case you're an anxious little poggy: I think anyone should play however they want... don't go around thinking I will tell you how to play lol, watch the whole video!)
I use everything the game gives me
However you think works, or feels best, or looks coolest to you 😌
Its fine to use spirit ashes but it should feel fine to not use them as well. A lot of late game bosses and duo fights didn't feel fantastic to me solo which should not be the case
use what the game gives you people complain about summons are worse then magic you didn't beat the game until you havent used TRY DOING A NG+43 WITHOUT THEM THEN
Strength and faith, if you can't smite heretics and crush someone's skull with your thumb than it's not fun
There is no “intended” way to play PvE. The developers added a lot of stuff for the average casual players to try. It’s not like the elitist Souls community can gatekeep you from using the game’s functions.
Anyone can use anything you want to beat the game but bragging about how something was easy when you used stuff that intentionally made the game easy gently irritates me lmao. It's like playing through a game on Luigi mode and saying the game wasn't as hard as people made it out to be. Like no shit Sherlock you used the optional thing to make it easier. But yeah enjoy the game as you want, I did my first playthrough almost entirely as a black knife with tiche as my co assassin. Game was very fun that way. Then I played solo and it was also fun, games fun regardless
@@sevirakalau2171you sound like someone who actually used wondrous physick, I can’t believe people actually needed that to beat some of these bosses.
Not extreme enough?
Bro so casual he used weapons, really irks me when people use such easy mechanics to “beat” the game
And ppl wonder why they're called a maidenless tarnished. But hey, it's ur soul 🤷♂
Yes it's good to play the game with ashes, sometimes even fun, but then you cannot go around saying elden ring bosses are easy only because you used mimic tear or Death knife Tiche to protect your ass from the 120.876 attacks of the bosses.
The bosses of from are generally intended to get killed by 1 player, you can fight them with an entire army if you want but then you cannot say the bosses are easy just because you used something or someone.
I'd say it's more Elden Ring fans than Souls game fans. They really only started showing up when Elden Ring released. there were the occasional people who would try to dictate how you play back in the Dark Souls era, but it's gotten exponentially worse in Elden Ring.
Maybe that's partially because there are so many overpowered weapons and spells in Elden Ring than compared to the other souls games.
Intended way: my way.
Wrong way: everyone's else way.
Facts
The way: this is
@@weatherman1504MANDO?!
You are a true champion
I asked someone from work, who doesn't play video games, what they thought.
They asked me why I play them. I said for fun and occasionally challenge myself. They told me "It's like building a deck or something. If you have the tools available to make it easier but choose not to and are getting frustrated about it. That's not you being skilled, that's you being stupid and wasting your time."
Some people like the challenge tho, it's disingenuous to tell them they're "stupid" and "wasting their time" by opting to not use every tool that allows them to effectively, at least partially skip bosses.
@@mgk-metalgearkelly5054 I don't think that's what my buddy meant. They were saying that if I don't want the extra challenge, and it's getting to the point I'm not having fun, it'd be stupid for me to keep refusing to use those tools for no reason.
Basically if I'm just trying to play the game and have fun, refusing to use summons because other people say I shouldn't, might be wasting my time.
@@Hyperdiskthat's a fair take, your original comment seemed to imply that not playing with the most overpowered optimal build means you are stupid lol.
You obviously find a difficult threshold of difficulty challenging to the players that don't want to use easy mode
@@Hyperdisk it's not that you can't use summons, but if you did use them, it means you're bad at the game
Keep in mind that the developers have clearly stated before Elden Ring was even released that spirit summons, as they intended, were meant to be considered a part of your build. You are expected to use them. You can see this reflected in the way many encounters throughout the game are designed.
I did not use any ashes for my first playthrough, and for many repeated playthroughs, as I generally prefer to play without them. I like the solo experience, and I like the seamless co-op with friends experience. Ashes for me are for the funsies, or for leveraging against a boss I've come to not enjoy.
Play the game however you like, kitties. It's your game, and your fun. One of the great things about this game is the endless amount of options you have, and the very fact that they are exactly that: options.
Can you share the source of FromSoft devs saying summoning is part of the build? The summoning system makes bosses easy or just mildly challenging and that definitely goes against what Miyazaki said on his "The New Yorker" interview back in Feb 2022.
@@cornlourdWell, for one summins exist in the game. If they don't want you using them, they won't put summons in the game.
Summons can be part of a build, i like my bloodhound build that uses the bloodhound knight floh summon, I also have the armour set and the fang, my gear and my summon are parts of the build, if you’re just going to hate on summons don’t reply to me
For my first runs of souls games i dont "power-game". I try not to use to many guides and summons and stuff. Past that though, the game burns and i feel like the main character of an anime. Currently going through my fourth elden ring play through, not at my target level and my greatsword is hitting fkr almost 700 at a light attack.
Git gud
Number 1 rule of games: If it's in the game, it's meant to be used.
Unless the game mocks you for using these.
Even then. It's a part of it.
"Shields are nice, but not if they engender passivity."
A good example of this is shields in bloodborne. They put them in, but they are absolutely unusable and make the game even harder 😂
@@ZaddyGohannah, if a ymfah makes a only shield video it has a purpose
And same time people cry about moonveil xD Summons are disgusting, they beat whole game for you
It genuinely hurts me to see people say that they finally beat Elden Ring and then get flamed and crucified on Reddit just because they used a summon or used magic or used RoB and Moonveil etc. Like bruh, let people play the game they want to play.
one of the big reason for that flamming and crucifixion isn't so much controlling what people play, it's people who want to feel superior because "they've beaten hard game".i've seen it often, people who feel powerless and insignificant found something that is challenging and make them feel better than others. they then get angry when that feeling goes away when they see someone else beat it with less effort than them or in a way they didn't think of. and thus instead of admiting they are not that good, they cope by making the other be illegitimate or lesser
All those flamers and their *_" How dare you play the game... "_*
*_" ... different than me!? "_*
*_" ... for fun instead of trying to show off in some way? "_*
*_" ... in a way that does not GIVE MY SWEATLORD NO-LIFER HARDCORE BUILD any respect and makes me feel like nobody cares about me? "_* Spoiler. No one cares.
Reddit. Well that was their first mistake.
It's stupid too because these people don't want you to just naturally play the game. I played the game completely blind. Was already a Samurai experimenting with arcane when I find MoonVeil in Caelid and hear months later how sweaty people got over that sword
Reddit is radioactive trash hole anyway what do you expect
Nothings better then doing coop mod with my younger cousin. It’s his first ever Fromsoft game so I’ve been guiding him through it. We’ve done all of Limgrave / Weeping / Nokron + Siofra / Nokstella + the other underground lake / Liurnia / Calid (a small bit of Dragonburrow) and are now working at Leindell.
He fell in love with the Lone Wolves summon and has enjoyed fighting with his very own wolf pack. His reaction to discovering the Mimic Tear boss fight AND getting his own mimic tear: priceless.
This made me smile
Wholesome af
My niece wanted her dad to make her a character. While he plays the game, she chooses the clothes and weapons. And five year old choices are... well... interesting. Her summon of choice are the jellyfish and wolves.
@@TheRisky9cute
Wholesome Ring
a wise man one told me:
"mimic tear is yourself so you won by yourself"
Bro I gotta say, the idea to comission Ranni art and use her as mascot was brilliant.
Its cool. Took me 3 or 4 videos to realize the spirit face isnt there
It's a no brainer.
POV intelligence build for sure
Pro tip: equip Raw Meat Dumpling in your inventory and watch your Mimic Tear use it to heal itself significantly
Mimic kukri spam also xD
i did a mimic tear only run on NG+7 and i made the mimic literally immortal
mimic tear + cursed blood pot + great star + prayerful strike + radiant baldachin blessing + crab meat + bullgoat set + greatshield dragoncrest talisman + ritualshield talisman + crimson amber medallion + erdtree favor
@Fire.and.Forget that's mean. I love it.
I do this on the mimic tear boss fight to make it harder.
@@prins-henrik1530😂😂😂😂 ME TOO!!! 😂😂😂 I made mine so strong it could one shot me and I fucking loved it
If miyazaki didnt want summons to be a part of the "true experience", he wouldnt have put them in the game.
Both Cheesing the game, and playing it as straightforward as possible are both valid ways to play, some people want a challenge, others just want to see big numbers, I'm somewhere in the middle
I like exploring the world. I’m just kicking open the progress gates as fast as possible to get back to interesting content.
Radahn fight with Summons was most fun badass bossfight ive ever had in a souls game. Its what i was waiting for playing through the Dark Souls trilogy. One huge multi summon boss battle with where i feel like just one of a group needed to take out this beast of a boss
Agreed, the fact they gave you 4+ NPC summons for Radahn's fight punctuates how powerful he is as a character in the story. I loved seeing Alexander and Blaidd fighting together for that once rare instance and they never cross paths again. Really makes the characters feel alive with their own paths to journey on and they happened to meet but don't know each other personally.
I was the opposite I didn't want to summon people to hold me back I'm 1v1 against a god so I can dethrone him still got it first try with my trusty dragonslayer sword
@@FighTThePower. and that's cool but that's just EVERY soulsborne fight. They've done dual bosses. They've had bosses who summon minions. They've done phased bosses. It was a breath of fresh air getting Radahn
@@keegan112099 honestly the only fight I summoned was dual gargoyle since I thought it was a 1v1 until the other showed up and jumped me. I took that very personal
Exactly this is a damn festival and I will not get wasted in it by myself
Love the "you cheated for summoning!" line. I used a mechanic in the game that is allowed and given to anyone to use how is that cheating?!
Because you lowered the game’s difficulty, it’s not cheating, but you didn’t play the same game that other people did. Spamming ranged attacks while your mimic tear pulls aggro so you can beat the boss without having to learn it is not the same thing as someone who used an average melee build and bashed their head in for an hour to beat the boss the noble way. I don’t have a problem with people using these things so they can get through the game, but for me and many others that is not a satisfying way to win. That’s why people are encouraged not to use them or to use summons sparingly, because you get a hollow victory.
@@grimreefer213 My point was its stupid to call it cheating. Its using the tools open to all in the game to beat it the way you desire. I have beaten elden ring and will admit used ashes or a summoned a person a few times. Melania and godskin duo mainly. If a person does not think its the "real" way to play then thats fine but to try and insult a person over it is where the issues come in. Not saying you did just in general for those who do it. Personally I encourage a person to play how they want and so on. While it might be a unsatisfying way for you and others in your mindset to win and seem hollow thats your opinion and personal view. I enjoyed the fights I used my spirit summons against and was not a hollow win for me.
@@aclevername7613 That’s fair. Yeah if it helps some people get through the game, especially against those shitty bosses like Godskin Duo, then there’s nothing wrong with that. I certainly wouldn’t say it’s cheating, and nobody is born a souls god. But I would encourage people to try to beat bosses solo to get a more rewarding experience, at least the main bosses that aren’t total BS like Godskin Duo
@@grimreefer213That's what NG+7 is for. Spirit summons are almost all equally worthless.
@@grimreefer213 "you didn’t play the same game that other people did"
OP literally played the exact same game that other people did.
I deadass got called a scrub for using a summon to help with Astel. The dude also was one of those gamer dude bros who wants a game to constantly kick you in the nuts if you mess up slightly.
I abused everything imaginable, got super overleveled, looked up guides to find the best items and had a blast playing this game. I played offline and only used spirit ashes a few times cause I was strong enough that once I learned the boss patterns it was relatively easy. I had fun. Seethe if you want. But playing games for fun is what I do and I have had and I am still having fun with Elden Ring. I’m not very good at the game mechanically speaking. But who cares? My single player experience does not cheapen the experience of others in anyway. I have never understood people who care about what other people do in games and in life in general. As long as you aren’t going out of your way to annoy me or hurt me I don’t care what anyone does with their time and that sentiment is only amplified in video games; especially pve. I don’t play pvp in Elden Ring cause I only like singleplayer rpgs. If I wanna play pvp games I’ll go play a shooter or something like rust or a moba.
Idk, sounds like you're seeking validation
Indeed. Never let anyone tell you that you shouldn't play the game a certain way because of some bullshit reason. It's your game and you can play it however you want.
@@tezz2698 And I am more than willing to give it to them.
@@tezz2698i think your talking about yourself
I truly reccomand a mage build in a second/third playthrough because melting bosses with over the top spells will feel VERY good
Ngl melting mogh with azure spell after suffering with my strength build was something else
@@mark0183for me It was the black Blade kindred in Caelid
He got back all the misery he inflicted on my full melee character 😂
Maybe for you, it does not for me. I just can't fathom how effectively "skipping" a boss can be satisfying at all.
its feels good to have everything served to us on a silver platter. but after the honeymoon phase is over, we realize we didnt earn it by ourselves
@@mgk-metalgearkelly5054 the First Time I played Elden Ring I went full melee strenght character
The magic build was for my fourth character
Revenge, not skip
Dont get distracted by the fact Deenh buffs the player's physical damage(some speels aswell), stamina damage, and poise damage by 20% for 30 seconds.
The perfect spirit of ash if you dont like spirit ashes 😉
Deenh is my go to ash on melee characters, honestly. It's basically a spell buff when you lack magic stats for spell buffs and still manages to be a good distraction while doing some damage and stagger itself.
It's also a dope looking bird.
@@RIBAYRO i'm pretty sure it's even better if you have your own buffs because deenh's is a special type buff
Angry birb
Deenh best birb. She BUFFS and she ATACS
@@GensolinkFalse, actually. Deenh's buff is an aura type so it overwrites Golden Vow and Rallying Standard, only boosts physical damage, and provides no physical damage reduction.
TBH Rallying Standard is the most OP buff because it gives 20% boost to ALL damage and ALL damage negation. The main downside is it only lasts for 30 sec compared to Golden Vow's 80 seconds. Golden Vow is a 15% damage boost and 10% damage reduction, for comparison's sake.
I love how they made elden ring a more beginner accessible game while not removing the difficulty entirely in a way that removes veteran players ability to experience a true challenge. Fromsoft makes beautiful games that everyone should be able to experience, so accessibility features are an awesome addition.
Eatch game has an easy mode called B L O C K I N G lmao
I mean even with ashes outside of a maxed mimic tear even tiche sucks with certain bosses or is useless a lot of the time..
Mimic tear can be good depending on your build you're using so its dependant on you.
However some bosses unlike before it's nerf will actually do more harm than good because it'll heal the boss.. ahem malenia and mimic tear mimic tear will lose even at max rank and not even solo the first phase. Unless you specifically run a rob bleed build or blasphemous blade etc then ok its a bit different.
@@yulfine1688 in my fresh playthrough i used dlc weapon milady with wing stance ash of war with cold affinity. i summoned my mimic and we just staggered her over and over again it was so funny
I played Elden Ring mainly offline. It was my 1st souls game experience, so ya I used spirit ashes etc. To help me along the way.....then I met Malenia! After several attempts WITH Mimic tear (basically Malenia's health sponge) I went online and summoned another player. I was pleased to have someone along to help. So some in the "souls community" use their "get gud" ability to help others in need.😊
you didnt beat Malenia lol xd
@@08aaa81 grow up
Personally I only use summons for duo fights or to distract a larger enemy. I really don't see why they are a problem. If its a mechanic in the game then of course people are going to use it.
I don't criticize the way you play but even so spirit ashes aren't needed on the scenario you describe either because I recently I got stuck in a fight with a boss with many skeletons and all a had to do was to craft holy pots, ignore the boss and focus to throw the holy soup at skeletons and was pice of cake. For doubles I just parry everything and support myself with some arrows and i beat them at the third round, more than hard dual bosses fights are tense and annoying.
I'm using bandit with starter gear.
@@Cuicas007pretty sure he meant bastards like Godskin Duo or Crucible Knights,etc.There are some fights where spirits will lift a huge weight off your shoulders
@Cuicas007, so you did the same as he did, but there were different tools !😂😂 using sny items is the same as using summons that your logic
Same. I happily used Lone Wolf to fight the Watchdog with a pack of 6 imps because…well that’s just bullshit.
I used summons on alot of fights, except maliketh. Something about that fight told me "you can do this", it was the parrying with the blaphemous shield thing. I managed to after 50 attempts it felt like finally beat maliketh, and it felt so good. i can understand why some people want to not use summons and die die die die until they finally figure it out, but i always say if you used summons and want to go back and try without, you can always do so in NG+
Recently finished ng7 and honestly Gurranq is always harder for me than Maliketh. Don’t know how how I always find him easier to dodge but he does take longer because he’s living his best anime life
Interesting that you shared this, since this is what Miyazaki expressed in his interview that Death, failure, and hard-earned wins are what makes his games what they are.
While I don't really think people should gatekeep, the existence of it does make sense when the creator himself expresses and embodies it.
@@cornlourdmost people are still gonna get killed a lot using summons especially if they haven’t been trained for the past 10 years with the other souls games to be good at them. The game is still harder than most AAA titles even when using summons. Especially in the later bosses that’ll 2-3 shot your health bar even with 60 vigor. Even OG mimic tear really wasn’t amazing unless you already had a pretty great build, which again, most people who are playing the game for the first time won’t have. I can definitely see how a lot of the bosses were designed with summons in mind to keep with how spammy their movesets are (I’m looking directly at you, Morgott)
In my first playthrough I just spammed black flame and mimic and it was so damn easy, only bosses I did without was radagon and fire giant. On my current playthrough, I beat the full game with no armor, no summons and no great runes just for fun and man, it felt a lot better and accomplishing other than sitting back and watching
I used summons to help me beat the game. Because I needed it.
My first time was with only incantations just to make it really interesting. I used the Great shield dudes and i had help from a friend twice.
I needed the great shield dudes because my casting time was slow. I didn't grind, i just played.
You pretty much nailed it. In PVE everything that is intended mech is valid way to play. Unintended Exploits (ie tumble buff or zipping) and hacks are the only thing that should be frowned on. Even exploits that can be performed should be considered valid for things like speed runs.
The intended way to play is to get the boss’s hp to zero 🗿
Fact
I bet you edited this video with two overleveled editors irl
Fire comment 🔥
idgaf about any of the summons controversy. my summon ashes are my FRIENDS and i LOVE THEM. it brings me joy to ring my little bell and watch as my army of ghost rats come waddling in to chomp the ankles of my enemies. they are all my little buddies and i like bringing them out for enrichment time, they will get bored if i just leave them in my pockets all day. like, come on out here lil guys, you can have some play time :)
I even buffed the ones I never use. I felt like I had a pet I wasn't feeding otherwise lol.
Imagine being genuinely triggered by how someone finished an offline run, just because you play the game differently.
people against summons (all of the summons not just mimic) are the same people who brag about killing malenia first try with maxed rivers of blood and lord of bloods exultation
Only one person deserves good praise. The rest are second runner up loser gatekeepers.
Having fun ≠ torturing yourself
unless you're into that kind of thing
To me, I've tried a tonnof different builds and beat elden ring so many times with and without summons, that ER is legit my game to relax and chill while playing. I love everything about it from the lore to the mechanics. I am happy that more people get to enjoy something I have come to love.
I've just found your channel, but i gotta say, really love the final fantasy tracks you play in background
"intended away" means to use whatever the game is giving to you for overcoming the challenge, although when something "trivializes" the game, it's usually due to the result of putting together some mechanics that when combined, results in unintended interaction from the devs, and this may break the game
your definition of intended and trivialize are the same thing, probably more accurate if you say intended isn't just using whatever the game is giving you. It's using whatever the game expects you to have, which is what makes it different from trivializing. Normally a build that trivializes the game requires you to have a combination of things that the game either didn't balance for when combined, or items the game didn't expect you to even have at the point of the game you are at. Like having a maxed level weapon early game by running around collecting smithing stones from specific locations, you are technically using what the game gave you, but you are doing so in an unintended way.
@@ragegaze3482 'Intention' is a funny thing. In many cases, unless the game breaks in a way that wasn't intended, IE a shortcut opens when it's supposed to be locked via a glitch or oversight. Then one can consider something to be intended as an option should it be possible in those constraints, ultimately there is a reason that most souls games doing have these patched out..... While not entirely spec'd out for that, it is something that it is intended for people to find and exploit.
After all if all one did was the one and only intended path through the game, it wouldn't be half as fun as it is! But thats just my opinion.
"No summons" is a challenge run, not the base difficulty.
Yes! Thank you! I've played the game both ways and I'm convinced many bosses were designed specifically with summons in mind.
Some bosses, they got in the way once you got good enough, but many were meant to be used.
Summoning always felt like it's making the game harder for me. While normally you get into the flow and learn all the evade timings, when a boss turns its attention elsewhere you never know if an attack will touch you with the last pixel of a hitbox or a boss will suddenly switch the target mid combo.
It was the same when I played Metal Slug in coop, it gets significantly harder to avoid enemy shots when they're not predictably fired at your location
The unfortunate sad truth of elden ring and why it's the worst souls game for veteran players
I'm currently doing my first solo playthrough defeating all the remembrance bosses and everything in between and its been vastly different than my previous playthroughs.
It hasnt been too hard honestly, but then again I'm using a build with a cold Nagakiba (piercing fang) and Moonveil in my right hand with a blood Uchigatana in my left hand.
I don't spam the ashes of war anything because im actually trying to dance with the boss's movesets, but im sure its definitely easier tham with a more casual build.
To put it simply.
Did you beat the final boss and reach an ending?
Then you beat the game. Summons, solo, spells, melee, whatever. You still beat it.
Just as Miyazaki intended
It's funny because you have vegeta as your youtube avatar saying that
@@U9Bcould you explain I haven't watched dragon ball yet
I have summoned spirit ashes to aid my combat as a caster, I have soloed the boss as a melee character, and I have outright cheesed mobs and bosses. I can say that all these are different PVE gaming experiences and are equally fun in their own way.
Right, same. I played heavily relying on summons as a caster first time. I was so bad I was way over leveled and still had to cheese some bosses lol.
But I'm on my 8th playthrough, starting new game every time and the past 5 times I start as wretch.
Every playthrough I've done differently...aside from always using the great stars in some way lol.
I'm doing my first low level run now after taking a break for a while. Playing different ways makes the game so much different.
But using anything in the game to beat the game is still beating the game.
For ppl who have a problem with summons, that's a self imposed rule. Same with deciding to run no armor. Someone can say the same to them for leveling or using armor or using a +10 or 25 weapon or whatever challenge runs ppl decide.
It's gotta be ppl who need to feel better than someone because they feel inferior in other ways in life.
Correction, Bloodborne was the first game to introduce password matchmaking not DS3.
My issues of spirit ashes is that there are encounters/bosses designed around them. I was struggling real hard during my first playthrough cause I felt those encounters didn't feel "balanced" without using summons or some sort of AoW spam or OP spells
Tbh, my main gripe with spirit ashes is that some fights were clearly designed with you using them (for example godskin duo.) Still a bad fight with spirit ashes, but without it, good luck not getting spitroasted by the agile lanky guy and even more agile fat guy 😅.
It causes some fights to feel quite unfair if you don’t want to use them for whatever personal reasons. Me personally, I mainly use them when fighting tough regular enemies. As i’d rather not die 10 times exploring an area. I’ll try bosses without them, as I love the challenge, but if it’s obvious they’re meant to be used for said fight, I will use them after dying a bunch of times with little progress.
I disagree that godskin duo was made for spirit summons. Atleast not clearly, I think the pillars are the proof that it wasn't made specifically to be fought with summons. The pillars are what allows a single player to effectively deal with them 1 on 1. If there wasn't any pillars I would agree they probably intended you to have something to pull agro.
I will use anything to gain an advantage. I am currently playing Dark Souls 3. I lured a Black Knight to fight Knight Slayer Tsorig instead of fighting him myself. Then I got rid of the Black Knight by luring him into the lava pool. That one was pretty difficult because I had to go into the lava pool myself and get out before dying.
I did not know you could do that
Neat
One thing I love most in games is doing something that makes me feel the most absurdly strong as possible. It’s not my fault summons or OP as hell weapons can melt a boss in .5 seconds like it’s just fun! And I’ll be damned if people tell me I can’t enjoy that aspect of the game
There's so many funny ways to kill Tsorig, it's amazing. You can lure him over to the Black Knight, take him to the basilisks, pitch Alluring Skulls in the lava, or my personal favourite: *SUMMON TSORIG AND LEAD HIM THROUGH THE AREA TO FIGHT TSORIG*
Agreed. When I play DS3 now, I always use the black knight to kill/injure Tsorig. No reason not to. Guy hits like a train. You can also get the mimic chest with the katana to fight the demon. If the mimic manages to do his patented roundhouse, he takes off half the demon’s health. “Work smarter, not harder”
Fax lol. Got attacked by the beast clergyman and I instantly knew I couldn’t beat him even at my level. I simply went right outside his temple and threw lightning bolts through the cracked doors😭 He couldn’t fit through so it worked like a charm
One of the things I like about spirit summons is a sense of camaraderie, which usually comes from NPC or player summons.
In previous games, it's a lot of fun just summoning a buddy and venturing through the game with them; Having each other's backs, being shoulder to shoulder and vanquishing groups of enemies together, seeing how their build meshes with your own in a dynamic of teamwork, watching someone's skills at work against a boss, etc.
With players in particular, it's also really fun hearing their reactions to the crazy stuff in these games!
In Elden Ring, I really appreciate how they give us a tool which allows us to summon that jolly cooperation (almost) anywhere and anytime, as many times as we want! One of my favorite summons is Latenna; feels like a special sister to me who always has my back- it really adds to that connection since she's pretty much dependent on me to survive. I always panic when I see a boss ignore me and just charge her, and I'm too far away to protect her.
people gank in real life because it makes it easier to survive. you dont need to beat games to survive, you dont need to play video games at all. people play souls games for the difficulty but if the difficulty is gone then whats the point in even playing the game?
@@falsechord Pretty sure there are places and times where Spirit ashes are not possible, so there's still difficulty to be had.
Also, not everyone plays souls games just for the difficulty.
@@combine1175 everything else in souls games except the difficulty is below average compared to other rpgs.
@@falsechord I think we're getting into some subjective views and I'm not sure if it's worth arguing knowing how it usually ends in the internet.
But I guess it's nice to see someone of a different perspective on this game.
that's so true. My wittle dung dung is so dear to me after spending hours running back and forth to Suvious' dumb ass in order to enslave him for a lifetime of service to me.
I have a mimic tear but I rarely use if for bosses, I mainly use it when farming runes and because I like having someone to play with who looks like a player
you forgot that the normal Coop player summoned by the White Soap Stone in DS2 also had a limiter active, the small one was 5 min and the bigger one was 15m i believe. Same for Dark Spirits normal spawned or summoned with red soap stone.
I havent played OG DS1 so i dont know that worked there, but in DS1R, DS2 Solar of the First Sin and DS3 normal mobs also scaled with the amout on coop players. Only HP, defenses and resistances. Well not as much as in Elden Ring ofc, but i always encountered enemies after Pontiff that usually die to 1 hit from a R2 wont when my friends was already in the world to get rid of pve for pvp.
I'd say whatever devs put in the game is a legit tool to beat the game. You can and should use all the help you can get on the first playthrough when you have no clue of what you are doing.
And if you want to limit yourself, sure go for it.
Good video! Keep it up =)
P.S. Watching Nefele and Mimic tear beating the hell out of Godfrey on their own was pretty damn fun XD
Well then your idea of "fun" is different, I simply do not understand how watching from a sideline as the game plays itself can be fun. It's the equivalent of digital cuckery to me.
I'm just sharing my opinion here, I'm not calling you names so don't get mad. Idc how anyone else plays their game - i just explained why I don't find that particular play style fun, nothing more.
*Nepheli
@@mgk-metalgearkelly5054 The fun part about it is how Fromsoft added co-op and summons to the game but seemingly made the bosses incapable of computing several opponents. It was equivalent to watching a "Funny glitches" video.
I am going to fight him normally on the second playthrough, just wanted to see if I even can summon both Nepheli and Mimic Tear.
I was certain that you can't use the bell if you go for the NPC summon before that. A bit of a miscalculation on the developers side in my opinion.
I’m so happy I’ve been able to witness this channel start out small with just some odd uploads here and there to a whole channel with its whole identity and community now! It’s actually really inspiring and the editing and style of this channel has really grown so fast and so much the last few months! Love you! Keep up the great work dude! ❤️
Thank you so much for your words ♥
True I might have actually done a few builds that are online but I decided in advance I wanted to bleed build I wanted to know what can work together for that so I did my best to work to the point where I can get items that work with it in the end I did the work for me to get those items I just knew what to look for to find them
Although I did not find the white mask because I've already killed everyone in the area without even knowing that it wasn't white mask himself that drops it besides the NPCs in the blood swamp area
I personally try to use the spirit ashes not that often as i feel like they cheapen the fight. I like the 1v1 aspect of bosses and that only your skill gets you through. The times I use them, I use Latenna for fire support to quicken a tedious fight. But that is just how I like to fight and i would never flame someone for not following my rules. (I might suggest them to try it without spirits at some point tho, as a challenge)
Simply put: if you use summons to beat the bosses, then it’s fine. If you don’t use a summon, that’s fine as well. I don’t really understand why people get so pissed about people using summons when it’s apart of the game and is available to the people.
Its totally not okay to beat a boss without a summon
The whole thing is hyperbole.
There is a difference between killing a boss without interacting with it at all to learn it's unique moveset, and well, learning it's unique moveset. It's like saying you beat Halo on legendary difficulty vs someone who beat it on easy. There's no clear cut way to say the difference between legendary and easy mode Dark Souls without creating paragraphs that no one will read.
There is this need, this desire to separate the two, most elitist have settled on calling it "cheesing". Some inappropriately call it cheating. Or some will say the legendary "You didn't really beat the fight".
If you Comet Azured Mohg and killed him before he even got to attack, you beat the boss, but you didn't engage with him at all. You didn't experience his moveset or gimmicks and learn how to deal with them. Anyone can follow a guide to create the set up to one shot a boss, but when it comes to discussing how to engage with a boss moveset, there needs to be a way to distinguish the two from each other.
I remember asking how to deal with a certain Maliketh attack on the reddit, and I was flooded with "Use RoB, use summons, use magic" I apologized for the confusion and said "I've already beaten him before with such tools, I'm trying to learn how to fight him without the tools". To which they started calling me an elitist gatekeeper, felt the need to defend their suggestions because now they feel like I'm attacking their playstyle and suggesting they're not real ways to play the game.
So on one end you have the elitist who don't really know what to call easy mode Dark Souls, and the other end being hyper sensitive and not understanding things from the elitist point of view. (Also there's trolls/prideful elitist who just want to shit on other people stirring up that pot.)
this whole argument got started by sweats who feel some sort of validation for beating the game and they feel that validation is in danger when some newbie beats the game, but uses spirit ashes. for those of you who think its cheating: its a video game. if you strive for social validation from a video game, you need to have a serious conversation with yourself about your priorities. The game can be played however people want. These new players arent going around claiming theyre better than you, theyre just playing the game, and if they can't beat a boss without a summon, who cares?
I was playing Elden ring and I had reached Morrgot the Omen King. Last time I had summoned someone I got killed by an invader while killing a magma wrym. I decided to try it again, after I got beat by the Omen King once. I had no idea summons were THAT op. He came into the boss arena, used a item that brought the boss to the ground immediately, then we just kept hitting him. It was hilarious and totally trivialized the boss. I don’t regret it though, was one of the funniest moments in the game for me.
My all time favourite way to play is slap random stuff together until I find a strategy that works different ashes grease or items to see what connects the best with my weapon or spell skill usage
I usually don’t think there is a wrong way to play a souls game, BUT, my mind was changed when my “friend” was attempting Ringed City, and while there were I was hyping up how cool Gael was. Turns out, they gave up because the dlc is too hard, so, he downloaded mods to make himself impossibly op, and able to clip through the map. He then used this to beat Gael in a couple seconds, and now too this day he says Gael is a shit boss.
But evil gatekeepers!
@@kindlingking Your statement is a non-sequitur, how would gatekeeping have avoided a dumbass with zero logical thought from reaching a stupid conclusion?
lmao, that's essentially what busted builds do without even having to use mods. If you kill a boss in 3 seconds of entering the room you might as well be in some type of dev god mode. Definitely the wrong wy to play
Oh yeah, it definitely goes both ways. There are people who shame others for using intended mechanics, and there are others who shame the game for being easy because they used certain mechanics. Ultimately, play however you want as long as you don't be a douche to others about it.
Did you seriously compare modding the game to using in game mechanics (summons)? That seems a bit far fetched dont you think?
My first play through I used Tiche for essentially every tough boss fight. I’m an impatient monhun speedrunner so slowing down to tickle the boss down was not my style. However after beating every boss, a few times, I then started my next two playthroughs with different builds and the goal of doing it solo which I did and it felt much better after having taken on the fights and having better grasp of the tempo and mechanics. Now most fights I’d say are a breeze for me and never even consider using a summon unless I just want to use a weird one for fun. Summons aren’t just a way to “beat” the game, they can be a helpful tool for a player to use to learn fights and strategies at their own pace without as much penalty. Ultimately driving a player to then test their skill without it which in its own way feels very rewarding to feel because you can clearly tell how much better you are now since you no longer require a helper.
Also they are just another way to beat the game, like different builds or weapons, if you feel like it, you do it.
@@alexturnbackthearmy190730 year old riding a bicycle with support wheels is unimpressive either way.
i beat the game together with my friend , we were like the same level the whole time and actually struggled with some bosses so i wouldnt say it counts as a cheese.
My favourite summon is the support perfumer
Still a 1v1 boss battle as the perfumer does almost no attacks (that hit), but youll get some nice buffs like healing, damage resist, and better damage dealing
I’m actually planning on doing a run where I almost always use summons. A necromancer build
I have friends who play the game this way and find it a lot of fun. I beat it without any spirit ashes because I just didn't want to level them, and I also had a fun time.
I don't use summons, but I often use golden effigy to let people summon me to their worlds. Last time I've played with two dudes as a summon, exploring llyndel, they dropped erdtree favor +2, blood exultation, greatjar arsenal, and full bullgoat plus bullgoat talisman. Since this was my third character it was pretty awesome cause I was level 70 and my build was basically done after that, but I cant imagine how much of the game I would missed if that was my first run.
I feel the need to remind that Miyazaki, when playing through the base game, played through the game using everything he had at his disposal. I think this shows that, at the end of the day, if a game gives you something, don't feel guilty or let yourself be berated for using it. If you want to play the game without summons - cool, if you want to play the game with summons - awesome. Have fun how you want to have fun, how you feel will give you the most enjoyable experience.
Meanwhile in DS3 I used a int/faith hybrid build, spamming invisibility and silent feet, snuck past almost everything in the second half of the game, even got a random pvp kill with an unexpected scythe backstab. ;p
On bosses that were resistant to bleed and/or dark damage, I most certainly summoned lots of help while I stood in the back casting my dark spells.
And I got to the end, using the games mechanics as they were intended.
And if I were to ever pick up Elden Ring, I most possibly may do it again! Could I beat it 'fairly' and 'honorably'? Maybe. Especially if given enough time.
Could I beat it if I resort to cheap tricks and dirty tactics in a game that does the same thing to you on a very regular basis? Most certainly! If ya give me invisibility, I will use it. Ya give me a sniper rifle, I might as well pick off some trash from where it's safe and sane.
If anything... why don't you use all these fun tools?
I used Mimic Tear for some of my 1st playthrough, but I had to ditch the summon for Malenia. I found the hp regeneration was too much of a boon for her, so I had to do that one without a summon and that was a mountain of a fight. I will say I was playing vanilla Elden Ring, I disconnected from the internet before I put in the disc to make sure I got the day one experience for my first run so it may have been different if I had gotten the patches, but still.
Mimic Rivers of blood Malenia is always the easiest way to kill her I’ve found. Can’t regen if she’s already dead 😂
@@100StepProgram I’ve played ranged magic build in RPGs since I was ten playing EverQuest, so I ran an INT build. No Rivers of Blood for me 🤣
@@jayemdaewarehouse9027 i've still yet to actually use ROB on a playthrough. Kinda want to tho
That music in the background at 8:00 brings back happy memories of game lŭt, thanks for that
I must say that I’m doing my first no spirit summons run in Elden ring. I feel much more rewarded when I win and I’ve gotten light years better. Before bosses were summoning in the beginning and spamming spells or ashes of war. I realized I wasn’t fighting the bosses. I was running and praying
I suffered ER with a melee build and it was pain... then I discovered Mimic Tear and I was like ahhh hell yeah and I never looked back. I love the game but I don't want to spend hours trying to beat a single boss so I will summon if I feel I will need to
I think Souls reputation as a hard game created this mentality that if you beat it then you are hardcore, that the games are made for “real” gamers
Ignoring the idea that people just want to have fun and learn about the lore
Agreed and what's more is I think with an incredible world like the one they created in ER, it's a crying shame that only a 3rd of the players on Steam appear to have seen most of it. If achievements are anything to go by it is probably even less than that. Even ER can be too difficult for the average casual and I do get it as I gave up on my first try but it was so worth the effort @@higaiwokeru
Tbh I love that you can drop end game weapons for your buddy in DkS3 and Elden Ring. Especially DkS3 cause I lost count of how many times I beat that game and it would be kinda tedious to beat the whole game again just to get the weapon I wanted to... Well, to beat the whole game again. Plus, most of the time they're not broken and you could get them for PvP anyway if you beat the game at a low level. I just don't like doing it for the first playthrough. But sometimes you just wanna cosplay Friede or Gael and go at another ng with your buddy
Mimic was the only reason I progressed to the end and experienced the game. I'm trying a no summon run in my ng+ but without summons, I'd probably still be stuck on radahn, not to mention fire giant and god skin duo. I can't imagine getting through maliketh but hopefully I can get gud enough.
I got Elden Ring last year during the Christmas season (on sale for $41.99) and I've beaten the game 12 times in less than a year thanks to cheese and being able to tear through bosses HP like it's nothing and guess what I've enjoyed every second of it. Because of how I've chosen to play the game Elden Ring has made 2023 the best and most enjoyable year of gaming for me. As long as I'm not actually hacking the game me having fun and enjoying myself is all that matters
Look, I just wanted to play the game. I wanted to make a Guts playthrough but due to my inexperience with the souls genre I had to use spirit summons(especially the mimic tear) from time to time. I, to this day, feel like I have made my job way easier than it should have been so I am ashamed because of it. That's why I started another playthrough to never use the spirit ashes. The argument of making game easier is one hundred percent correct, but considering that it is in the game, kept in the game and kept unnerfed means that it is an intended gameplay assistant to help you complete the game. But if you are like me and geninuenly want a challenge than making a playthrough without using them is completely justifyable. It is a game after all, you'll waste your time anyways so argueing who wasted more efficently is a dumb argument.
Anyone got a song name that starts at 8:59 ? I swear I heard it before a long time ago but can't quite remember the name of it. Great video btw!
EDIT: After some real tough thinking I got it! It's Wandering Flame from FF10! What a throwback! Knew I heard it before.
you just maybe forgot to mention, but in DS2 there is way to disable any summons by simply joining Covenant of champions, what as i said disable summons, but also make all enemies harder, by increase their damage,HP and damage resistance :) as how i play the game, i use everything at my disposal :)
I love that mentality 'You use a broken build/spell/summon/Thing, you don't beat the game." and then you look at their build, and it's the most broken quality thing you can ever see, or the most meta, excel spreadsheet thing that the game has to offer.
Also, 'Cheesing' is missused here. I think that cheesing, for me at least, is a way to break the fight you're on, like freezing the AI or make the boss getting stuck on something. Using a giant beam of death to make Malenia cry Rotten tears is not cheese on my books, even stunlock her, because you can fail once, and she will turn you into a milkshake.
If so, making a 'Quality Build' is cheesing the game, using the same logic as the orcs on reddit.
I'm not angry with people who uses the summons, i'm angry with the people who say the bosses are easy only because you can oneshot the bosses more easily and can summon ashes.
Long story short u are angry because deep down u know purposely making urself suffer isnt smart 😂💀
@@lastboss2418 if you dont want to suffer then dont play the game. easy
@@falsechord i play the game for the sake of moping the floor with player like u in pvp
@@lastboss2418 bro you cant even play pve without summons
@@falsechord the reason u try to reason pvp with pve show how a nuub urself.. Because elden ring pvp and pve are completely different..
The funny part is waifu already talk about this weeks ago.. N nuub still dont learn lmao
I don't think there has been a Souls game I haven't had at least one entire run through with a friend, Elden Ring being the exception. And you know what, I've enjoyed every single one. It's been great seeing the game through with a friend, going on a little souls adventure. It actually make me wish the next game would have more of a focus on a 3-4 player coop experience where the areas and bosses are designed with larger groups in mind.
So yeah, it's your game play it how ever you like, but I would say to people give soloing a chance too. These games sense of reward comes from overcoming obstacles and the sense of achievement you get from beating a boss you've struggled with for hours is like nothing in any other game.
On one hand, yeah play how ever you want. On the other I once herd someone say Melania wasn't that hard after using blood hound step to completely avoid water foul. After grinding that fight to only really getting the hang of not dying to water foul instantly after idk 500 hours play time, that bothered me.
And that’s why summons aren’t a bad thing. Sure i like the challenge, and I’m personally not going to summon for the first 200 deaths or first few hours against one boss. But when it comes to having to spend over 50+ hours to learn and be able to beat 1 boss is just not worth my time.
Speaking only for myself, I use spirit ashes only when and where I feel they’ll enhance my experience against a boss or enemy encounter..
I also don’t just default to the most overpowered or “meta” spirit ash. I try and pick specific ashes that will have some genuine advantage over a boss..
Example; when I fight Placidusax I like to summon Dragon Knight Kristoff because he uses a spear which deals pierce damage and all dragons (except Borealis) are weak to pierce.
He’s also extremely tanky so he can manage aggro quite well.
People should just play the game however they damn well please. It’s their game after all. Fromsoft put spirit ashes in the game as a tool to be used at the player’s discretion. Period.
I support cheese strats, but I dont use them right off. Boss giving me too much trouble after like 6 tries? Cheese Time.
My friends stopped playing with me because I farmed Albanaric at Mogs area. I fought my butt off grinding levels (without the gsc at the time, keep in mind).
I think it could be a bad crutch for new players, as if you rely on your summons you never really get that 1vs1 experience with bosses and know how to time your attacks, heals, dodge and all that stuff that later on you might get stuck on a skill check because you never had to go through learning it.
But it's also qiuet cool you can get help from others to get over difficult stuff, especially in dark souls that usually feels pretty lonely and isolating.
In the end, it's just a game, can play however you want.
Just let us play bro
Honestly while it isn't a intended debate per say I cannot fathom how it's fun to watch something/someone beat the game for you.
For me I’ve always much preferred the world elements over the bosses themselves. It didn’t bother me that much to have a summon help me for a boss.
@@Dioliolio I don't mean like, summoning to fight a boss with you. I've beaten these games alone "legit" (probably more "legit" than most people who debate this kind of stuff since I don't use torrent or str weapons, as well as ranged magic) and summon for bosses a ton if I wanna relax. I don't understand watching someone/something kill a boss for you is more what I mean.
then how is jump attacks or charged heavy not cheesing. r1 like a man/woman too
@@fsylar1188 because they are slower and jumping a attack feels fantastic. I don't care about difficulty for difficulty I wanna be engaged. Also I don't use str weapons either, slow and encourage you to take potshots which is unengaging
At no point does the summon do *everything,* necessarily. I’ve had the banished knight summon that I make get completely ganked and sent to the shadow realm mere seconds after I summon him, or the enemy just bypasses him entirely and goes for the squishy summoner (me)
the issue with summons and coop is split agro. it may not look like a big deal but pve combat revolves around knowing when its safe to attack or not, with split agro you can just attack the enemy while its distracted by your summons/coop
Bloodborne was the first to introduce the password system. Again, a PS exclusive, but still worth mentioning I think. I love how you took the time to put the multiplayer mechanics into context with the older games first, gives a very good perspective to those who haven't played through all the prior games.
Elden ring introduced a lot of new options to succeed, whether alone or with cooperators. It was billed as the largest *MULTIPLAYER* experience FROM had ever made, and with that, I feel like they wanted to still give a more dynamic "multiplayer" type feel to people who didn't have access to online play, and thus the spirit ashes were born.
Honestly, I wish spirit ashes were more present in the gameplay, like spells, and able to be used anytime, but also not able to be upgraded (or if so, factored into matchmaking). Personally I'd love to have a "summoner" character for invasions. Though with the concern for balance in pvp, this would just add another variable in the equation, which, as it stands, is just adding to the pile of things they're hopefully going to get to.
I started using mimic tear when I came across malenia, still took me 3 hours to beat her with the mimic tear, coz she would just shread everything in sight. It was still hard, I still needed to learn and adapt, I still needed to overcome a hard challenge, if my whole elden ring run is bs because of that, then sure, i Dont care lol.
8:01 unless you have been invaded by Chase in that case I don't think there is much hope even with Phantoms at max rune level
ChaseTheBobo the ultimate invader (Real) (Factual)
@@OnlyWaifuYT the Slayer of maxed phantom
Noobslayer*
There's also a glitch in ds3 that would allow you to bypass being downgraded to whatever level your host is idk if it's patched out by now as it's been awhile since I've played but there's also that fact that invaders had to deal with
9:55 Slow down, hall monitor!
Again, another great video! You really make solid points.
In my first play through of elden ring I didn’t summon any players or creatures and had a blast learning the bosses attack patterns and come up with strategies to counter their actions with my build while enjoying the challenge.
In my first play through of dark souls 3, my entry into the souls series, I summoned help for a lot of bosses and looked up and followed all of the meta guides. Even so I enjoyed playing the game so much that I invested hundreds of hours into the game and played all the others in the series. I slowly started learning about the games and their bosses, summoning for some and going solo for others until I learned enough that none of the bosses challenged me enough that I needed any help. So instead I put down my own summon sign and loved spending hours helping random hosts in need and I love seeing their gestures and block spams as they celebrate beating the boss or an invader or getting through a tough area that I helped them navigate when they seemed lost and showed them all the unique or important items in the area. Sharing moments with the community just made the game so much better, so regardless of how you or someone else plays the game, kindness makes it better for everyone. Don’t insult others for how they play the game because it’s ok to get help when you need it. Odds are the people who boast are just too proud to admit that they needed help at some point too
In short: summoning ashes isn't a problem on paper, it's like calling Solaire or Lautrec in Dark Souls, the problem is that many ashes are broken OP and can almost solo main bosses without your help, you're basically just watching the game play against itself, it's the equivelent of someone buying a movie and then just talking all throughout it and not watching the screen, yes you were in the room when the movie was playing and your eyes were on the screen a few times, but you didn't actualy went through the movie.
Which spirits and what boss are you talking about.
Because I can guarantee you, only like 1/4th of the ashes in the game can actually solo bosses, and that's if we're talking like early game or mid game bosses. Like you mean to tell me the Soldjar of Fortune ashes can solo Godrick? Probably with good rng, but one fire attack and they're exploding.
@combine1175 To be fair he didn't say all spirit ashes, just many, and about the bosses, you could just go on a collecting spree for upgrades on spirit ashes to be able to solo those bosses though that seems like more effort than just fighting the boss
@@Bag-o-Chipzz True. Pretty sure I've completely humiliated Morgott with a +10 Oleg and Melina (May have been a little too overleveled thanks to the ranni quest)
But yeah, there are like two spirit ashes that are completely busted and pretty capable of soloing bosses or even the game for you. However, is that really the fault of the entire concept of spirit ashes or just those two?
@@combine1175 Definitely just the two really strong ones but really it just comes down to if you want to use them or not. If I want to use ashes, I'll find some goofy one and use a sort of support build to see how far I go, others might just use the stronger ones which is completely fine, as long as people have fun.
Came here for the ranni commentary,, stayed and subbed simply bc you use the best FFX and FFX-2 soundtracks in the background of some of your videos 🏆
9:00 What is the music name, starting from here?
You play how you want
Only limits are the ones you willingly set upon yourself
I killed Malenia first with the help of my sexy twin and Comet Azur
Now Im trying to kill her with a whip and no armor
Edit: just for all you proud purists out there? I speedran the game to NG7 with those two tricks I mentioned before and now farm a decent 1 million runes in 3 minutes from the Albinaurics in Mohgwyn palace 😏
Yup. I breezed through the game with a Bleed Katana build, then I completely cheesed the game with a Magic Build, then I had a challenge with a Bonk Build, and now Im torturing myself by doing a Frenzied Flame only build.
Dude,just get a friend to drop you infinite hero's runes.Whats the point of grinding at ng 7?
@@Superluminal_30000 Bold of you to assume people who play these games have friends ya know.
@@Superluminal_30000 Im not the one who gets dropped hero runes
Im the one who drops them
@@Gamer_G33k Hell yeah! Thats the way to play! Increase challenge little by little!
Nobodys gonna no hit the game like a "proud purist" on their first playthrough
On my first playthrough I used summons for every boss, but after summoning the mimic tear (and melina) for Morgott and beating him in about 30 seconds without taking damage I realised that for me engaging with the boss, learning their moveset and how to punish them was what I found most fun, so I didn’t summon for any bosses after that and found myself enjoying the game a lot more (to this day no matter how cheap and annoying people say Malenia is the hours I spent trying to beat her solo are one of my most memorable gaming experiences, and she’s one my of favourite bosses of all time as a result). I understand not everyone feels the same way, and have no issue with people using summons, but sometimes I find it frustrating that so many people just default to using summons for everything without even trying the game solo to see if they enjoy it more like I did. Of course, if they do try and find that they don’t enjoy the game solo, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with using spirit summons!
I wish you could pet the animal-themed Spirit Ashes. I've found myself forgetting I even have the summoning bell, but if I could pet a trio of good wolves after a boss defeated I'd use them all the time.
tl:dr I've never played a souls like before Elden Ring. I found it painfully hard.. my reaction time to incoming attacks is crap, always has been. I get through things by beating things with the biggest stick till it falls over. Elden Ring made me feel like 7yo again playing Zelda 2 on the Nes. I used Mimic when I got it. Was glad to finally have a reliable meat-shield to get a few solid hits in during Boss Battles. Still spent 6 hours on Malenia over lv. 100. I regret nothing. game was a wonderful experience.
Summons objectively make the game easier but that's the point, and that 's why they're in the game. Besides the story implications and fun it adds. If you beat the game with summons ( a feature they added so you could use it), you still beat the game. Don't listen to the gatekeepers. Yes your experience was easier, but it was still valid. It is what it is, I use summons sometimes and don't use summons other times. Both are fun for different reasons.
Edit: I refer to spirit ashes when I say summons. Summoning people for co-op on bosses is different imo, but you still beat the game even with summons imo. Easier, yes, but it's in the game for a reason.
if you get your brother to beat the game for you, did you beat the game? summons are bad because they essentially can beat the game by themselves
@@Akakiryuushin Ah yes, as if all spirit summons in the game can play the game for you.
My wandering noble ashes will surely defeat the final boss for me, since that's what everybody says about spirit ashes right?
(I will agree that there are some spirit ashes that definitely just play the game for you, like Mimic and maybe Tiche)
@@Akakiryuushin Summons do make the game easy if the phantoms are good. But saying it's basically letting others beat the game is grossly oversimplifying it. Summons can make the game easy but hosts can die too. Plus a skilled invader can give them trouble.
The same could be said for spirit ashes. The only thing I can think of that "plays the game for you" is when you pit a maxed out broken build mimic tear against a boss. But that takes a lot of work to achieve, and is mostly late game which most people won't even be bothering to make. Spirit ashes, for the most part are just power ups more than anything.
I personally prefer solo runs to not waste anyone's time if I die. Even so, unless players are using cheat engine maliciously or doing unintended exploits in multiplayer, I don't see anything wrong here.
@GunLobster I would be fine if they are just power-ups, but they are vastly more powerful than that. And it's not just mimic tear that can solo bosses
@@Akakiryuushin Name the spirit ash and the boss they're fighting, because I know damn well land squirts ain't beating godfrey and I'm sort of sure that Godrick would lose to most of the named spirit ashes depending on their level.
My problem with the spirit ash mechanic is that Fromsoftware is in a difficulty arms race and the fact that some bosses are so oppressive that it seems that they were designed to be played with summons is against the essence of what made these games fun for me.
I want a fair single player challenge. I've beaten every boss in the game solo with the exception of Godskin Duo, but some bosses are so overtuned with things like delayed attacks, aoe spam, input reading, and hyper-aggression that they become unfun to fight solo.
Mimic tear with the Black knife+10 is awesome 😎👍 and with the Cold Nagakiba+25 ( double slash )
It’s wild to me how some people need validation from telling others how to enjoy a game. Some of us work 60+ hours a week and just want to unwind for an hour. If someone wants to drop a mimic tear and watch it blow bubbles at Radahn who am I to judge?
My only problem with Spirit Ashes is that I feel like certain bosses were designed around you using them. I don’t think certain endgame bosses would be nearly as difficult if there were no free helpers to use. I mean FromSoft _really_ went overbaord with the aggression and movesets of some of these bosses. Malenia’s Waterfowl Dance and innate healing are good examples of things I think either would be easier to dodge or entirely non-existent, because those are just absolutely ridiculous solo.
edit: it also occurs to me that it could be the other way around, FromSoft realized some of their bosses were going overboard and added Spirit Ashes as a balancing measure. Regardless I think it speaks to an issue with their development and they need to reign themselves in more.
In my first playthrough, I actually found Malenia was harder with summons, whether players or spirits, because of how she heals when she damages them. The first time I killed her was fighting her solo because I could dodge nearly everything and keep her from recovering HP. IIRC, the glitch that let her heal whenever she attacked instead of whenever she hit was patched in between my attempts.
There is no shot a summon doesn't make even the Malenia fight easier; if you're using the strong summons (e.g. Black Knife Tiche, Mimic) they will far outdamage any healing she can get off hitting your summon, especially if you have a very strong build yourself. @@TowaruTsura