Can Expanding Spray Foam in Iron Shafts Reduce Vibration?
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- Опубликовано: 11 дек 2023
- We go back to the hardware store to see if spraying expanding foam into a steel iron shaft can reduce vibration and feel more like graphite.
If you haven't seen my expanding foam driver video
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Pour acetone in the shaft and it will 'melt' the foam to remove it.
There are foam inserts that you can use instead of spray foam. My biggest concern with spray foam is that is can get brittle, and when the shaft flexes that may make the spray foam break up.
My exact thoughts 💭 👍🏼
The red can of spray foam is intended for filling large gaps and it expands with lots of force. For that reason builders don't use it on doors or windows since it can warp frames. That wouldn't be an issue inside a steel shaft. But it also cures to a very brittle foam, which I believe would break up into small pieces.
I would think that the blue can of expanding foam, intended for doors and windows, would be better for your experiment. It doesn't expand with as much force and it remains flexible making it better for shaft applications. I also think the foam should be applied to the center of the shaft or center to tip. True Temper's sensicore inserts were placed in the shaft below the grip area.
It is unlikely the foam filled the entire shaft. It probably filled only the upper part of the shaft at the grip level. The lower part can be filled with the addition of a plastic tube attached to the spray foam foam tube. As you inject the foam gradually pull back the tubing until the entire shaft has been filled. I would like to see the results after the above is accomplished.
He only intended the foam to be on the top half, that's why he said "...with the foam up in the shaft here" as he tapped near the grip [7:14]
I would suggest inserting memory foam style ear plugs 11” down the shaft where the grip starts. That will kill vibrations before they reach the grip area. Memory form molds perfectly to the shaft and has better vibration control than hard foam product.
I took the grip off of my Titleist driver and poured tiny pebbles down the shaft. It's now super heavy and I can do barbell curls 💪 with it when I'm waiting on a tee. The only problem is that it rattles when I swing but a small price to pay in exchange for getting a mini pump while playing. Feels so good.
Great video. I like all the different things you try with the clubs. Keep it up👍
True Temper used to offer a foam product like this called SensiCore. It was just some little foam plugs that you’d shove down the shaft as far as they would go. They were just held in place by a friction fit. I tried them and liked them, but that’s been 20 years ago.
I've used tubular foam insulation in my golf shafts for over 3 years now and I'll do it till I die. To me, it DEFINITELY changes the feel of vibration and with bad shots cancels out the horrible hand wringing you get without it. I further lowered vibration by having all graphite shafts for all 13 clubs (minus the 58 degree wedge) and I'm telling you, tubular foam in the graphite shafts makes for the SMOOTHEST feeling ball hitting you'll ever play :)
I agree. Been using the Pro Soft foam inserts for several years in my irons and wedges. Definitely feels better to me.
By "tubular foam insulation" do you mean the expanding foam from a hardware store, or something else? I'm very interested in trying this out as well.
Well, first thing's first. I'm about ten seconds in and if I didn't already rate your content and taste highly (I play Sub70 699Pro V2 irons and thoroughly enjoyed your review of them a while ago!) then the fact that you've come rolling in wearing a Marmot top today is the final seal of class and quality. I swear by their waterproof lightweight jackets.
Jolly good!
You know those mad professors in a lab who produce something exceptional... you remind me of that. Great thinking.
I’ve actually experimented with foam pool noodles, by precutting strips before installation in the shaft. I install them about halfway down the shaft, using an epoxy to secure them. I’ve never done a whole a set, just one club and worked pretty good compared to a shafted club with Sensicore.
Didn't true temper make a steel shaft called sensicore that was foam filled? I had a set of Mizuno pro irons with them installed.
Yes, foam and wire wrapped. They still use it sometimes and label it as VSS.
Cool experiment! How about placing rubber bouncy balls in the shaft where it would sit tightly at a certain level. Maybe just 1 to sit I. The middle or closer to the grip end.
24 years ago I played Mizuno MP33s they had dynamic gold sensor core shafts pretty similar to what you're trying to do with the foam and it makes a huge difference probably the best shaft I've ever played in my life, although it is heavy especially for today's standards.
Still got a set with sensicor shafts lovely feeling shafts
True Temper still uses it sometimes with their Elevate shafts referring to it as VSS.
Happy Days, that was a great club and shaft combination. Still have a set somewhere.
There is a gray tubular foam insulation for stuffing into cracks. It's about 1/2" in diameter. I've used this in iron shafts before and it works well. It has to be cut in half or quarters to be able to fit though. The trick is shoving it down in there without pulling the foam out when you pull out whatever you're inserting it with.
This is what I use and it works PERFECTLY :)
I've used that one also and it does the trick.
I had a s400 shaft in a gap wedge and i out a rubber rod in it half way, it was very good
great vids mate, cheers. question: how many layers of tape i need to bring 0.570 shuft butt end to 0.600? i realised my CPX midsize grips I just put on feel like regulars cause darn shaft is 0.570! (learned that after) 🧐. Thanks for helping.
I've been using it for 20 years with no issues
I have been thinking about checking this out for so long but never got to it. Specially the putter shaft
Interesting idea...
Piggybacking on this and obviously the sesicore idea, have you ever done the cork and ramrod idea. At one point, when I was more active with my clubmaking hobby, I was thanking about getting at least a couple different sizes and doing that. Personally, I'm quite happy with a graphite shaft in my irons, but I'm still curious if it's effective in reducing vibration.
I thought Ping used to have „Cushion something“ as an option. When I bought my Pings several years ago, I did not order the cushion option and felt the irons very harsh. Did not keep them very long at all.
I do not know every single spray foam type, but the most of them need humidity to dry, so if you spray the foam into a tube you may have the problem that the foam will not harden up at the inside
I let it sit over an hour before cutting off the overflow and gripping. It seemed pretty hard at that point.
If you put pieces of cork every 10cm, would reduce vibrations, with air pockets absorbing vibrations. Air pockets are the best insulation for reducing vibration.
More than likely. The foam had not solidified yet. In an airtight container, just like the head. It will take a while to solidify.
Did you use the one to one expanding foam or the 1to3?
Now put the foam shaft on your frequency analyzer
A little off topic but I've been trying to find "The Putter" Yes I know it's the guy on the end of it that makes it work. I can putt pretty well with any putter but I'm looking for the one that feels effortless and natural ( like the one I learned to putt with years ago as a kid.)
I've still got that putter it just feels too light. I found a blade putter on eBay that needed some TLC It's very nice but not it. Then it hit me why not make one using my old original putter as a template but make it heavier. After obtaining a nice billet of stainless steel I was about to go and use my mates milling machine. Then It occurred to me Hozel or bent shaft. It's easier and cheaper to machine a head and fit a bent shaft than it is to make or buy a hozel.
So what's best or doesn't it matter as long as the angles are correct?
Buy the foam inserts instead IMPO. Not as messy and they won’t dry out and crack like spray foam could. Would hate to later have a rattle due to spray foam drying out and cracking off.
Wow sensicore is back!
Home made!
AJ enjoy your vids. I play in Thailand, bright sunshine, I was wondering if you know any simple method to take the high gloss off woods and hybrids that does not require total repainting or damage the club. Thanks.
I don't but you might try looking on some automotive forums/sites since the paint is very similar between cars and golf clubs.
Ok thanks AJ.
Try silicon mold making stuff please
Just have a look at Steve Stricker WITB ,plus he plays the best 3 wood ever made.
One question I would have is did the foam go all the way to the bottom or just past the end of the inserted tube? Maybe a thermal temp gun could answer that.
Pretty sure it's not all the way down. When I've done this with foam tubing or using Sensicore, the inserts only went down a few inches past the grip end so that was what I was trying to duplicate.
You would have had to take the head off too if you wanted to fill the shaft, most likely only about 12 inches has foam the way you did it.
True, or get a much longer straw for the can. I was trying to keep all the weights pretty similar to how we started so I didn't want to over fill it.
Hi, Will adding spray foam into a steel shaft prevent the shaft from rusting on the inside. Due to the weather in Ireland I have had steel shafts snap during my swing due to unseen rust on the inside.
PS. Love your show for the 1% incremental gains.
Eric in Cork.
I'm not sure if sealing the shaft up will help or not. Guess it would depend on how dry the interior was to start with.
If you clarify how much of the shaft was filled,it seems the foam would not reach
The bottom without a hose type extra?
Only the top 10 or 12 inches were filled. I never planned on filling the entire shaft. Any shaft dampeners for steel usually only run between 3 and 8 inches so that was my guide.
I spy a Star Sidewinder grip @3:00! Isn't it great how easily those can be removed and re-installed in just a few seconds using nothing but air? P.S. You don't need to use double-sided tape, you can install it directly over a bare shaft and it'll stick in place and never ever move!
Review will be upcoming. Just for everyones clarification reading these comments, the tape used was masking tape for sizing purposes only.
@@EFGMC Ah, now that you said that I do see that the color of the tape is that of the masking tape rather than the double-sided tape. My mistake!
How does this compare to the wooden dowel mod down the shaft.
The dowel changes the feel in a different way. The foam feels like other down the shaft foam inserts (like VSS or Sensicore). Dowel is harder to describe.
Someone already said it, but anyone watching this video would be much better off using the commercial foam inserts that are available. They are not only removable, but also much less messy.
Those do work great. I got this idea from a GolfWRX forum post so figured I'd try it.
Most, if not all, spray foams wouldn't ever completely set up in that environment. It would only get a little further down the shaft than the end of the spray tube, and only an inch or two, right at the open end of the tube, would solidify--
I tried a similar trick to reinforce liquor bottles being used as stage props. Could never get the stuff at the bottom of the bottle to set up...
If you really want to foam the whole shaft, you need polyurethane foam...if you can find it in the right formulation, it could flow down the whole shaft, it would expand in much the same way, but it sets up in a different chemical process and doesn't require air exposure to set (in fact, the less air exposure, the better). It also maintains its flexibility much better than spray foam.
@@AllTradesGeorgecan you recommend a poly foam product?
@@BallMarks nope. That's what I was saying...I've never used a product that would set up effectively in that application.
You might have better luck with spraying your shaft with a rubberized or vulcanized spray coating. And a cool way to murder out your shaft ??
must fill entire shaft length to be meaningful.
let try again 😁
It sounded softer... I think
The goal was to see if it compares to graphite. I would think you would need to hit some with a graphite shafted Tacoma to see.
I might need to follow up with that. Personally I did not find the change as significant as a full switch to graphite. It was a different sensation.
Fun test. Odd that one gram of foam weight near the grip seemed to threw off your swing at first. When I was playing 17-4 ping i15 irons I put SensiCores in them. Made a noticeable difference in vibration. Even at one gram each you really could feel the difference in heft.
I think it's all my swing throwing off my swing 🤣
Will it alter the flex because it's not hollow 🧐 probably
Hmmm
Acetone will evaporate the foam, I think.
I was wondering that afterwards.
I'm guessing it gets hard and crunchy and starts making noise.
I will give it a week or two and go hit some more balls with it, see how it's progressing.
Try backer rod
Works PERFECT! :)
@@jephfandingo1438 yes it does.
it sounds way different
One part foam breaks down more readily (no one wants bits rattling around) such that it was never recommended for old metal woods before the Big Bertha. (There there was also the problems with voids in the foam, hence the complicated ways of cleaning it out, if not the idea of sensicore inserts - that break down in a few year).
It does not prevent rust on the inside but might even increase it on the unplated side of the shaft - but if you are fine with binning the shaft after a couple of years.
Such suggestions are a touch suspect from a fitter who should have a contract with a decent graphite iron shaft producing company.
What is the relevance of having a contract with a decent graphite iron shaft company?
@@biggregg5 So the fitter has a supply of new - rather than second hand shafts
@robbasil4441
I'm still not following. If someone wants a steel shaft with some extra vibration dampening and a quick 10 cent squirt in a new steel shaft helps, I'm not sure how a relationship with a reputable graphite shaft manufacturer is relevant. I'm sure I may be missing something. Let me know.
@@biggregg5 Having tried the Sensicore route for 15 years, the quality of iron graphite shafts today is finally equivalent to steel without the problems of rusting, disintegration of inserts etcetera.
MMT, the Fujikura or even Steel fiber options can be had at around $60 per shaft
The additional cost of graphite also should also be marginal - at a proper club fitter who has stock and scale.
Asking someone to put half a tube of expanding foam, let alone gun grade or two part is going to ruin things and not be cost effective or consistent in the long run.
@robbasil4441
I've gone with graphite and am happy with it, but steel iron shafts are the norm still, and considering you can spend under $10 for a steel shaft compared to the $60 per shaft you quoted, a squirt....not half a tube is not a throw-away viable option. I would bet that it would be 15-20 cents max per shaft. You keep on acting as if a steel shaft rusting from the inside is a serious issue. Of the 100's of clubs I've had, only one steel shaft rusted put while at least a dozen graphite shafted clubs broke at the tip. I would give the nod, easily to steel shafts lasting longer. You may be right that squirting PU foam may cause a moisture problem and may have bits come loose, but I've never heard, in fact that is the case.
You shouldn’t know which club is the control and experiment.
Celine will melt it out
Thought you would have been more scientific about measuring vibration.
I'm open to suggestions. Not sure what to use to measure that.
Why not put the foam in a raw shaft and then build the club? You could foam the whole shaft.
Problem is we would have no vent to release pressure when building the club which could be an issue during epoxy cure.
C'mon man, think outside the box. A straight piece of wire coated so as not to stick that can be pulled out after the foam sets. Maybe something like that with a small tubular hose could be used on already built clubs? Or make a longer nozzle for the can so that it reaches further down the shaft?
@@jaymorin7131 You got me. Maybe I will redo this with full foam. Could also probably just heat up a wire hanger and use that to make a vent hole through the hardened foam.
Bad idea. Not the correct foam, this foam hardens and is brittle. You demonstrated that when you broke off the piece on the butt of the club. Plus with the trapped air in the shaft, if someone sprays the foam full blast, they will get a face full of foam and a huge mess.
It's a good way to destroy golf club shafts. If the shaft of the golf club vibrates at a high frequency There is a chance of being destroyed.
Its horrible stuff to clean off any overspill....not fancying it myself to be fair.