"The Yoko Factor" (4x20) | *Buffy the Vampire Slayer* Reaction
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- Опубликовано: 9 май 2024
- I hope you enjoy my reaction to Season Four, Episode Twenty of 'Buffy the Vampire Slayer': "The Yoko Factor".
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My camera was out of focus for pretty much the entire video - I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm sorryyyyyy
It would have been much funnier if this had happened with Beer Bad instead.
Thanks for mentioning it, I was starting to worry about my eyes
No worries.
unforgivable...
I just thought you had been drinking 😉Or was it ME drinking?
Spike's true superpower is weaponized empathy.
I do like how both Angel and Buffy, both apologized to each other. It wasn't just one apologizing, they both had to.
I have long felt like they framed it between the shows to make each character seem like a slightly bad ex on the other's show. So that fans who watch only one of the shows - either show - could see their show's main as completely free and unattached.
Cass didn't seem to agree. She expected Angel to apologise (and apparently was expecting him to get angry earlier when they were talking), but kind of brushed off Buffy's apology, like she wasn't holding Buffy to the same standard.
I'm heavily on "they were already a couple" because of the sexy magic doing, the staying out all night with each other, Faith's mention of Willow no longer driving a stick, "I am you know, ..... yours", the immediate talk of having a kitty together, etc. I don't know if I know when it started, but I'm pretty sure it was before last episode.
I think maybe the night, where she was out all night and Buffy was as well, and they were like "you too"?
Yes, they have said that any time Willow & Tara were performing magic was to be a stand in for them having sex.
People forget how taboo it was to show homosexual relationships, at least as normal, in media at the time. You basically have to treat like a weird Hays Code leftover. For example, Hays Code said that a woman had to keep at one foot on the floor while in a bedroom to avoid implying sex, so the 'popping foot' kiss took on the meaning of sex. It didn't imply attraction or that the kissing would lead to sex; popping foot = sex. Similarly, magic between Tara and Willow = sex.
Agreed--plus Oz smells Willow on Tara, and considering that's what sets him off, it kinda seems like it's the sort of smell that wouldn't result from just, like, casual friend touching lol
That cliffhanger response though. I feel like I understand a little better the joy Spike got watching people squirm and suffer 😂
"be all you can be," was the slogan the army used in all its recruiting material and tv ads in the late 90's.
"It's not just a job, it's an adventure!"
Special force: It's called chemistry. Even actors who hate each other in real life can have it. It just...is.
Castle is a good example. By the end, apparently Fillion and Katic hated each other so much that the crew schedule they filming so that they saw each other as little as possible... 😂
But they still had chemistry!
Big part of that is Fillion, like Marsters he would have chemistry with a brick wall if necessary!
@@christophtoifl6848Or The Good Wife where best friends Alicia and Kalinda and worked great together until they didn’t share a scene together for the 4th, 5th or 6th season. Except when Kalinda left and there was a scene together. Except it was faked. The actresses hated each other so much they couldn’t do a 1 min scene
Everyone has a little crush on Spike.
Nope.
I do not. He gets on my nerves. 😭
"Apparently Riley is working with... " I dunno why everyone seems to go there. He's just found out his best friend has been killed by Adam - he left Buffy angry when her heard this from her - where else would he go - he went to see Adam to avenge the death of Forest
Angel, while he and Buffy (the actors) have _amazing_ chemistry together, he was very one-dimensional a character while on Buffy. Just taciturn and broody.
On his own show, Angel is given a fully fleshed out personality - he’s socially awkward and inept, campy and cheesy in an endearing way and melodramatic, but in a way that his friends tease him for being a drama queen (whereas it was presented as simply being dark and intense on Buffy) - and above all, deeply petty and immature at times.
This endeared Angel far more to people. And despite being in his own show that’s largely unconnected to Buffy, people’s appreciation for his character and the chemistry between he and Buffy only grew more powerful.
Poor Riley, milquetoast dud and uncharismatic as he is, never stood a chance with the fandom .
It’s no fault of his actor and SMG,but the characters simply have no chemistry together.
Ironically, while Riley was generally disliked by the fans for replacing Angel, Tara was _hated and despised_ initially for replacing Oz. But due to the sheer chemistry between the actresses and characters, Tara became one of the most beloved and cherished characters in the entire Buffy/Angelverse.
Chemistry is everything.
Buffy and Riley have chemistry, all the actors have chemistry between them. It is just it is less strong
Oz > Tara
again you present facts not in evidence. I don't recall people hating Tara when she first came on the show. I think you would make a bad lawyer.
@@Nexusofgeek This was the case when the show originally aired on televisions. But please, continue to be an ignorant, butthurt moron.
I love Riley. I think he’s the best suitor for Buffy.
also spike makes all of us question our taste
Willow and Tara's relationship is more subtle because of what the network would allow. Like they haven't had an onscreen kiss yet.
I would interpret that they've talked about it and were dating for a while. However, they had sex for the first time at the end of the last episode.
Yes! They were moving really slow and their magic and spells were substitutes for any physical relationship. But they didn't take that final step until last season.
@@plumdutchess you mean last/previous episode.
Underrated episode imho. Love the different layer, the fight between Angel and Riley, the conversations and the fight between the scoobies in the end
Ya know its funny how many people actually like the buffy/angel dynamic once he leaves 😅 i feel like thats pretty common
I think so manny of us never really forgave him for Jenny .Passion tore many of my friends apart and never liked Angel again. One good friend told me she could not watch Angel and it took a few years for her to even see Bones.
Riley as a character had a hard time specifically because people at the time couldn't get over Buffy/Angel, lol. But Angel's appeal definitely grew once he was off on his own and he got his own development/plots away from Sunnydale. I'd say every character from Buffy that ended up on Angel needed it. Maybe because "Angel" feels more like an ensemble show?
@@cajah88 All correct and solid observations.
@@cajah88ironically, people initially _hated_ Tara with a passion similar to how they moderately disliked Riley - because both characters seemed like poor replacements for Oz and Angel respectively.
However, due to no fault of the actors, Riley and Buffy simply never had any chemistry together at all, while Tara and Willow did.
Fans would in later times herald Tara as Willow’s greatest love and embrace Tara’s character as one of the most cherished and beloved on the show.
Riley and Buffy have no romantic chemistry together.
The network at the time didn’t allow depictions of gay relationships.
Magic was used as a euphemism and metaphor for gay sex, which is why the scenes of them casting spells together were so sensual.
It wouldn’t be until Buffy had a network change that gay relationships would be allowed to be depicted properly.
We ALL have a crush on Spike (even the guys do a lot of man-crushing), so we get it.
I am a homosexual man. I can confidently state I have never crushed on the Spike character.
Girl. Willow was staying out ALL night with Tara and didn't come home until the day after. Not just out late, but just as late as Buffy when she hooked up with Parker. It might make sense to stay over if they lived father apart but they are living in the same dorm. But it is quite subtle.
Buffy's issue is not ego. It is the burden of destiny. After all, she's already died once and does not want the people she cares about to die for her.
Mmyeah, most of it. But there's definitely some ego involved. The way she can say: I'm the Slayer. In a way that shows her feeling of responsibility and feeling "stuck". But there's also pride and ego in those moments.
SPOILER:
It’s definitely ego.
Everything Faith said that Buffy refused to believe was all proven true.
Faith stated “we _are_ better” than everyone else, getting to pass judgement on others, because the Slyer is the law.
And in seasons 5, we slowly see Buffy become much more like Faith - isolated, hardened.
Season 6, Buffy the only thing Buffy doesn’t do is kill humans, but she otherwise becomes Faith, even down to her having a moment beating the face of the person she hates most, saying how disgusting and worthless they (projecting herself) are. She’s isolated and falls into violent sex as a coping mechanism, deeply cut off and alone, doing dangerous things to compensate for her inner pain.
And in season 7, Buffy literally states that “I’m better than them” - she has an _enormous_ superiority complex.
Forest believed Buffy was manipulating Riley. Remember, she has the power in the relationship; and he did give up everything for her. From his perspective, it's a reasonable conclusion.
In other words, Forrest sees Buffy as the Yoko Ono who broke up his friendship with Riley.
@@brainstewX Makes sense.
I wish they could have stuck with that clearly, and not seeminly pushed him as a mysoginist. It mixes the message too much.
Angel had every right to talk to Buffy like that she came at him side ways from the start
When it comes to Tara and Willow being "official", you can tell they've been a couple since at *least* the moment when Tara told Willow "I am, you know: yours". I wouldn't make a guess about when they first had sex, but they've definitely been girlfriends for a while; long enough for Tara to start playing with Willow's hair without even noticing it. I love that Spike noticed that, by the way.
And I love that he's been sowing the seeds of discord between them all for a while now. He didn't *just* get the idea in this episode to split them all apart. Remember the episode where he tried to stake himself? He's walking around with Willow and Xander later on, telling them how they're not doing anything with their lives. Willow says they fight the forces of evil, and Spike says "Buffy fights the forces of evil. You're her groupies." You're right, his plan in this episode isn't a great deal different from how he normally is to them, which is why they don't even notice what he's doing. He just makes his remarks a little more...targeted now.
And after he gets under Willow and Xanders emotional guards, his smirk towards the audience shows his satisfaction for causing discord
@@williambowman2326 Also because it was probably the most fun he'd had since he got his chip.
This episode shows that even with the chip Spike can still cause plenty of trouble.
23:41 ...I've just noticed the Oz action figure in the bottom left corner... That's cool (Or just like Oz would've said: "Hmm")
I mean... they were talking about getting a cat together. That kinda says we're in a relationship.
13;52 When in the fandoms people would say Forrest was into Riley I thought it was a reach, but I think I'll finally agree now, he totally crushes on Riley haha
I think the fans know it’s (likely) not the case, but we find it so funny that he acts like a jealous boyfriend that it almost retroactively was fixed to be that way.
Haven't watched the episode yet but I know this one will make you absolutely livid, given that how much you hate miscommunication tropes.
27:30 Spike's plan worked because lot of things that he talked about were actually things they thought about themselves, one way or another. He just listened carefully. If they were above it and it was absolutely irrelevant it wouldn't work for a second.
And by the way, on the contrary, it makes the plot more interesting, c'mon. They brought Angel back and he and Riley had a 'who's the biggest man here' but it was so .. boring. I just skip it all. All my attention goes to what Spike did with the gang. I like that while these two were busy with very 'important' things Spike was out there not giving a damn about all this and about both of them, and I was there with him. Every damn time this character proves me why there is a reason to watch this show.
The "It's just a phase." In the 90's through the late 2010's it was common for tv shows to have an adult woman, usually a character's mom, to tell the other characters, usually younger ones, about how they went through a lesbian phase in college.
it's pretty clear they were already romantic. willow staying the night when buffy stayed with riley, i'm yours etc. magic spells that are very much a metaphor for coitus. have a think back and think about the time it was made and you'll get it hopefully.
These are just my personal thoughts... Don't take them to seriously... I always thought Angel was trying to explain early on to Buffy what was happening and she wouldn't listen... Then he got pissed because she didn't want to even try to understand because she was hurt, and exploded when she threw the fact that she was happy without him in his face. She antagonized him the whole time and then got upset when it worked at making him angry... I'm glad he apologized for exploding because it shows how much he still cares about Buffy,(and even if she was trying to make him angry, he shouldn't have let his anger control his actions) but he wasn't necessarily wrong for anything else he said or did.
Some interesting parts in this episode, highlights are Angel and Riley acting like jilted teenagers in Buffy's room, and the smug smile Angel gives Riley when she says she needs to talk to Angel alone. Also Giles being drunk and telling Buffy 'you'll get your arse kicked'. Buffy really hurts Willow and Xander when she says 'I guess that's why there is now ancient prophecy of the chosen one and her friends' after all they have done for her, and she has done for them. Some excellent work by Spike setting all the friends against each other like a modern day Iago from Othello, there was foreshadowing for this in The Earshot episode when Buffy was reading the students mind re Othello Play. Giles playing Freebird is of course the highlight.
You only had to wait two days to watch the next episode. Think what it was like when the episodes first aired. I assume fans had to wait a full week.
Sometimes it was more than a week. After some story altering episodes it was 2 weeks . And in a future season we had to wait over a month to find out what was going on with Buffy. Joss and the network knew how to play us for the sweep week ratings and we just played along.I remember that after Riley tells Buffy, we have to talk at the end of Hush… the next episode was over a month later. ( Hush was shown before Christmas vacation and the next was in late January) That happened at least once a year and that was a terrible experience.
What do you think of the Angel version of Cordelia? Do you like her development?
I liked her development,I *HATED* the ship with fierce passion(I don't know if I can speak about it because I don't know at what point of"Angel"we are...)!🤬💢🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
The Ex-Scoobies in LA were all generally one dimensional characters that desperately needed their own show to grow as characters.
Angel went from an archetypal Byronic (almost _prosaic)_ love interest that is just broody and mysterious to a socially inept and awkward goofball that’s frequently teased for being just a drama queen.
Cordelia went from a vacuous socialite to a deeply empathetic agent for the forces of good, helping no longer because of her associations in the most tenuous ways to becoming the literal vessel for the forces of good to receive visions and direct the gang to help the needy.
Wesley went from a ridiculous, performative facade pretending to be a watcher that was totally inept, to the most dramatically changed, most radicalised tactician that makes the hardest decisions for the good of the team and world, and performs the actions necessary when no-one else would dare to.
…
And Harmony is just Harmony.
@@Nicamonwe can all safely agree the ship is disgusting. And rest assured that the ridiculous storylines were _literally_ confirmed by the actors and team to be Joss Whedon deliberately bullying her. It wasn’t her. It was all Joss.
@@arc7375 Agreed about all--especially on Angel. I thought he was SO boring on Buffy but love how they developed him in Angel. I guess they had to because the Angel on Buffy couldn't carry his own show.
one of the best episodes to me
I'm in the camp of "Willow/Tara was unspoken". Partially also because of the time period and the way they act, it has that tension of being unsure about where they stand - and the very frequent lesbian experience of "does she like me or are we just affentionate close friends???" Like when Willow says "because of Tara" it feels like about Willow's romantic feelings, not like them having an unofficial relationship. That said, I'm totally cool with people reading it a different way.
Also the whole "magic is a metaphor for sex" thing doesn't necessarily mean they the characters are ACTIVELY HAVING SEX, esp since they do magic together so very early.
I think it probably had to have been spoken by the start of the last episode. Between "no, no new...guy" and the scene where Tara reassures Willow they can still be friends and that she knew Willow would take Oz back if she could, they seem to at least be aware that they're more than friends by that point even if it's not quite official yet. But I don't think it's been spoken for long.
THIS!!!! so many cishet relationship people being like 'NO I KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THOSE TWO WOMEN DID" like relaxxxx awkward gay relationships can begin like this!! I'm so glad you said it!
I too wonder who knows about Riley's affiliation with Adam... 😂
His personal trainer.
the thing about Willow's and Tara's relationship is, this was one of the very first lesbian relationships portrait in network television, so the creators of the show had to tell us between the lines what was really happening, because they just weren't allowed to tell us in the same way as for heterosexual relationships. Buffy was groundbreaking in this regard, they had to pave the way with the means they had.
Tell you the truth I didn't really notice the video being out of focus👍
Nice reaction. I love your musings on what's going to happen while you're watching. It makes you my favourite reactor.😁
Always enjoy hearing your thoughts. And sorry but your "no, no, no..." at the end did crack me up. Looking forward to your thoughts on the conclusion of this cliffhanger.
Yeah, Willow and Tara have been together for a while now. The show uses their magic as a metaphor for their intimacy. You will probably pick up on it more upon a rewatch.
I guess you forget that after Buffy left Angel told Wesley he needed to go after Buffy to apologize.
No way Riley would stand a chance against Angel in a fight this dumb Angel would destroy him Sorry Riley cool dude thought
At 27:31. Thank you. Thank you for that reaction Clarence ( best Hannibal Lecture voice)
Dunno if I can keep remembering to the count but so far
Riley’s I love you: #2
Even though this season has some fumbles I do think the final 3 episodes are strong and end the season in a solid way.
The fumbles , the ones most mentioned, had outside reasons. Beer Bad as a shameless attempt to make federal government money to cover the entire cost of the episode. A couple of others had motives that bore fruit in the future or existed because of the unexpected rewrites needed when pre production was over and shooting was starting on BTVS and Angel .
After watching the next episode, I think everything will come into focus for you. :)
So disappointed we're not going to see the second half of the Faith Quadrilogy; this episode in particular suffers without a reason for Angel to come to Sunnydale, kerk
😂😂😂😂😂❤❤ oops @ end
See you next week
Yeah, Joss and the other writers have all said Willow and Tara were a thing the whole time me. Witchcraft in this season is a metaphor for lesbian sex because the network wouldn't even allow them to kiss. Its, unfortunately, just what they had to work with. We just found out for sure the same time Buffy did.
It’s often cited that magic in Buffy is a substitute for gay love - but I feel in retrospect this was a very isolated thing.
Magic has been _consistently_ depicted as early as season one as far more a euphemism for addiction.
From Amy’s mother using magic as a crutch to vicariously relive her glory days as a high school cheerleader in season one, Giles using magic to literally “get high” (and make out with Ethan Rayne) in season two, and Willow using magic as a coping mechanism to control people around her to her liking…without their knowledge or consent, as seen in season two, three and four.
@@arc7375 I think to many fans have a far to black and white interpretation of the use of magic in this show. The magic is both actual magic and a euphemism, or rather with Willow and Tara it is both them doing magic and them doing gay love at the same time, and from the beginning there has been this notion that using magic for the sake of magic is akin to power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. So it is a bit more complicated.
@@arc7375Yeah, this particular euphemism is specific to Willow and Tara and to this season. The over-arching magic=addiction vibe is something that comes in harsher contrast in later seasons but that is spoilery territory.
Earliest I've been to one of these. 😃 Still watching the intro, just wanted to say that, yes, Willow and Tara have been together for a while. All the spells they've been doing were euphemisms for dating, because this was the WB in 2000 and Alyson and Joss had to FIGHT just to get the one single Tillow kiss they eventually have while on that network and everything had to be *nudge nudge wink wink* to get on air.
Yeah it's a nice generation gap there. Homophobia was EVERYWHERE in the 90's, at all levels. Nice to see how confused younger reactors are at how circumspect Twillow had to be for 4th season.
Yeah, I don't know. I don't think you can say "they have been together, period" like some of you guys are doing. That's your interpretation, and a widely accepted one by the online community, sure. However... maybe they weren't as together as some of you insist that they were. Maybe they knew there was something brewing there, but maybe they weren't quite there yet. I completely understand where you're coming from, and I see how the scenes of them doing magic can be seen as them bonding in a deeper level, but I don't think none of those scenes were supposed to represent them having sex. Besides, they do seem to decide to give in and clearly, "finally" get together at the end of the previous episode, so... what's the point, then, if they'd been together already? Making it clear that two women were together just by using words and telling people was too much for TV, and then a few episodes later it wasn't anymore? I like to think that they weren't together yet. They were getting to know each other, they were becoming very close and they were being flirtatious even, there was romance in that, but I love the fact that the show allows me to see it as such slow-burn in which they only decided to be together when the show told us that they were deciding to be together.
@@Matthew-ij3zmWeren't supposed to represent sex? They literally did the O face last spell they cast.
And the last episode wasn't them getting together. That was Willow choosing Tara over Oz. That's why they were holding hands at the start of the episode, and why Tara reacted like she did to Oz's return. They were together and she fully expected that to end with his return.
It's literally as spelled out as it possibly could be given network restrictions of the time. There's also no interpretation required. It's been directly confirmed by cast and crew.
@@Matthew-ij3zm Correct, Willow telling Tara, "I hope you don't think I only come over to do spells," was Willow actually saying, "I hope you don't think I only come over for sex."
@@Matthew-ij3zm I mean it's only the showrunner's and writer's opinion, but what do they know?
Wasted Angel cameo
Quite honestly, _any_ Angel cameo is greatly appreciated.
What was _truly_ a wasted opportunity was not having Cordelia or Wesley especially have a cameo, and for us to see how the Scoobies would react to their character growth.
Especially Wesley. The guy had perhaps the single most dramatic transformation and overhauled character out of the entire Buffy universe.
I’d love to have seen Giles react to Wesley, who went from basically an inept boy cosplaying as a watcher to a super-watcher on steroids.
Angel’s appearance is not a complete waste of time. The scene in the hall is vital and the interaction Angel has with Riley has importance for the now and future. Also the cameo was needed to ensure no ratings drop. Angel was following Buffy and the show Angel had not established its true identity fully. The audience still was blaming Angel for killing Jenny and there was a concern that the Buffy audience might turn against him after the Buffy/ Angel fight in the police station the week before. The first Season of Angel and its success was based on the Buffy audience not turning the channel after Buffy ended. Tuesday was Buffy night and the WB was desperate to make it Bangel night. The promos Wednesday to Monday were always … on the next Buffy and after the coming scenes…. And then next on Angel. I know several girls felt Angel betrayed Buffy and took Faith over Buffy.( Buffy tells Angel when she leaves him at the station… Faith wins again) The show Angel would have lost some viewers if he was not shown apologizing to Buffy.
Having a crush on Spike for being perceptive and manipulative is fine as long as you realize that it's a bit problematic. You're in the same boat with a lot of us on that one.
You were wondering if the cliff hanger was going to leave you spiraling, well, welcome to the Downward Spiral.
P.S. when I got that album, I put it in my CD player and put it on repeat while I fell asleep at night.
Sure Jan! 😂
Spoilers:
Yall, it’s about to get crazed. I can’t wait for season 5.
The point of S4, and what the season has been building to is the Scoobies realizing they have been having troubles within the group, in my opinion.
Anegl is in this Yayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy we want Angelus
Hmmm, 4-20 eh? What were the writers smoking anyways? 😂
I love the chaos of this episode...
I've just finished to watch domi's reaction to ep 6x01. Who knows,knows. ;-S In my headcanon Will&Tara could have had an unspoken romantic attraction till this point without ever making it official even between themselves. I know what the official interpretation is,I know about the censorship and the metaphors and all that stuff but I think it's more romantic and deep to interpret the whole thing as a slowburn development rather than:"They started banging right away,we just can't see it because GAY PANIC!!!"X-P
03:00 - 03:14 I didn't at the time!!😱Imagine *how confused I was* seeing scenes in a"previously on"that I never saw!! I genuinely thought I had skipped an episode or something!And add to this the fact they *did* skip ep 4x19 because of the censorship on Willow&Tara so I probably thought _all_ those scenes were from _that_ episode!!😵Such a mess!!
03:22 - 03:24 *YEAH!!! I KNOW!!!* THAT'S WHY I HATE YOU FOR NOT PUTTING THOSE EPISODES HERE ON RUclips AS WELL!!!!!🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬💢💢💢
08:08 - 08:15 Just like with Willow&Tara...I hate that everyone associates everything with _sex_ all the time. It was not _the sex_ that made Angel happy. It was the peace and intimacy he felt _after_ it that triggered the curse.Otherwise he would have immediately turned,he wouldn't have fallen asleep,then woke up,walked out of the room,screamed and _then_ turned. To be fair, neither Xander nor Riley said the word"sex"here and what Riley said was _technically_ correct,but...we all know what _Xander_ was implying.>:-[ 08:21 - 08>:23 OK. I take that back. They _did_ say it.😠 So...yeah...all of the above remains valid.
10:09 - 10:25 Just wanted to randomly highlight how *BEAUTIFUL* Willow is!😍😍😍😍 12:52 - 13:15 And people say he hasn't empathy. That's a"dark empath"right there!!
16:30 - 16:33 Yeah,and _why didn't WE?!?!_ I was _waiting_ for that moment!!😡Why did you cut it out?!?!😭💔 17:06 - 17:15 Yeah... 20:41 -21:05 They are.😊🖤💛
21:39 - 21:48 I think _very few people_ like Buffy&Riley more than Buffy&Angel.Even the ones who _don't_ like Buffy&Angel! I personally never felt a real chemestry or connection between Buffy&Riley since the beginning. There's always _something_ that doesn't work with them,it's like they're both making a constant _effort_ to make the ship work and it never comes _naturally_ not even when they're not fighting and it _seems_ everything is going well between them. They just..don't match. They're not right for each other.Simple as that. Also...I think the fact Bangel has always been Sarah Michelle Gellar's personal OTP might have played a role in making the chemestry between her&David work so damn well.^_////_< 💛🖤 22:59 - 23:04 😊🖤
26:56 - 27:05 "Tara is your GIRLFRIEND?!?!😳"🤣💙 27:20 - 27:26 Ouch!😖 27:32 - 28:01 Cliffhanger.😆
Season 4 is not my favourite, but it certainly ends well.
Best ending to any of the seasons, in my opinion.
I love Xander's and Giles' reaction to the news that Tara is Willow's girlfriend.
And Cass! You are brilliant. I've seen the series several times and it's never occurred to me to ask Angel to try and maybe help take down Adam. While he may not seem too scary to us jaded TV viewers within the context of the show he is a serious threat. And he never even came up in their conversation?
Aw I can't afford patron I so wish you could at least just upload the buffy crossover angel episodes if not the series, but love your reactions so don't mind me love the channel
Maybe wait an 'entire' week... ;-) kerk
Re: Willow and Tara -- magic is definitely a metaphor of sex in this season.
Angel > Riley
The irony is that Buffy was very inexperienced with relationships and Angel was her first love.
Compare her behaviour in seasons 1 - 3 with Angel to Riley’s here. It’s very similar. Both insecure, needing constant validation and deeply dependant on the other, who is _far_ more self assured and mature as people, as well as in relationships.
Buffy in season 4 is in the same position Angel was in during seasons 1 - 3.
When you're done with Buffy, could you do the Chilling Adventures of Sabrina? I'm currently rewatching it now, and I found myself wondering, "what would Cass say about this?"
No they were not already having a sexual relationship prior to the last episode. Whoever is telling you these things doesn't know very much about the show. They both had feelings yes but it was never spoken out loud by either party, they were basically dating minus the sex. Eventually once you finish the show you should watch the commentaries or the post season reviews the writers do, they explain a lot of stuff
Willow and Tara were definitely together for a while now. Remember when Willow goes to Tara's at night and tells her, I hope you don't think I only come her to cast spells." Spells were code for sex. Watch how the spells they cast together are and you will see how erotic they are, sweaty, slow, breathy and backs arched. Spells were code for lesbian sex, since they were not allowed to just say it.
Yuppers 🤗
Can’t watch both parts together, have to wait two days. Boo hoo, we had to wait seven days when originally broadcast.
Willow and Tara have been together for awhile. We just weren’t shown it until now.
👍🏼💯
Willow and Tara's entire relationship is an example of something that is very dependent on time/place and how much you know about the culture/mores of the late 90s and early 00s, specifically in what networks could and could not portray and how the show had to work around it. There's no exact date for their relationship precisely because the writers had to work in ambiguity. Season 4 took place during 1999-2000, and the Tara/Willow relationship started in the '00 episodes, iirc. And all of this happened a year or two after Ellen's character in "Ellen" came out as gay, which had a lot of backlash and led to ABC eventually canceling her show.
Out of focus? I thought you did that deliberately; to make yourself look more beautiful (it worked btw). It's called the cheesecloth effect. When you 'film' using actual film (not digital); there's a trick of putting cheesecloth over the camera lens, to soften the image, to help hide the small skin imperfections. It's usually done for romantic scenes, close ups. You achieve the same end digitally by putting the camera slightly out of focus. Just a bit of camera technique trivia.
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I’m with you on the inward reflection on manipulative bad boy spike thing. Not that I think you need to but that’s where my mind went for my attraction too 🫣
Awesome reactionl Now it is time that you can finally watch the brilliant Foriley tribute by the amazing After Show Reacts on RUclips.
Once again a fun reaction and Thank you. A couple of things you have said in the past that you should hold on to. You asked , Why do I doubt Buffy? Listen to yourself and you will not go wrong. Also you talked about having patience and when you enter these next 3 seasons that is excellent advice you have given to yourself … and you need to follow.
The name of the episode is The Yoko Factor. If you don’t know why , just ask and your followers will explain. It’s like the great Zeppo Factor episode. Not a necessity but helps.
I don’t know how often you go back and listen to yourself but you make so many excellent prophetic statements ( maybe there’s a little Drusilla in you😀🙃) that are amazing but then you doubt yourself or don’t continue. You are very good at observation and use reality as opposed to wishful thinking. The feeling you have about Buffy and Angel has been there and remains because of SMG and David B. When they are together they just have chemistry and charisma. You can’t buy it or bottle the sparks.The expressions, body language, voices … everything fits together. There is much more to learn about Buffy and Buffy and Riley. Patience is the key.
Lastly, I suggest you ask your fans and followers after Episode 21 on the best way to watch the season finale , #22. You heard about the best way to watch this and #21. For reactors there can be some helpful ways suggested that will not hurt the viewing experience. You have advantages now that we did not have when Episode 22 first came on in 2000. Hope you really enjoy the last 2 episodes and the discussions you will have after the season ends.
I’m not sure if anyone’s mentioned this, but I highly recommend watching After Show Reactions’ video of this episode. It’s become somewhat of a tradition with Buffy Reactors after this episode
I second this motion. ASR was my first Buffy reactions channel, she dragged me down into this rabbit hole smiling and enchanted... :)
RIP Foriley.
@@xyex such a tragedy... 😓
@@ernesthakey3396Only for Forrest. Losing both his one true love, then his life. 🤣
@@arc7375 after losing his 2nd in command position! He always wanted to be right behind Riley...
As far as things came down in LA and how it affected Angel and Riley, I think Buffy deserved most of the blame... and as you can see here, she still feels it is more about her than anyone else (which is one of the reasons I don't like Buffy as a character).
She goes to LA to help, but then she gets pissed when Angel wants to deal with Faith his own way instead of hers. What he told Buffy was right: you're on my turf, I didnt ask you to be here, so if you aren't on board with what I am doing, go home. Plain and simple. What does Buffy do, go into whiny cry Buffy mode (God, I loved that line in Angel, keep speaking truth Cordy!)
And in this episode, she doubles down on it. She goes back in the same mode 'you did all these things to me' with no acknowledgement that Angel made the right call with Faith and had the better outcome vs if Buffy had her way. I don't think Angel had anything to apologize for at all (except for picking the current fight with Riley)... but also notice Buffy's reaction, or lack there of. Angel directly said he was 'sorry about LA', TWICE... yet Buffy never did.
As for Riley, she IS keeping select details to herself, which yes her choice.... but look at the outcome. Buffy says she needs to tell him about Angel. However, Riley finds out from Xander that she omitted some rather major details (details that a close friend like Xander assumed Buffy WOULD tell him). What does Riley take away from that: she's still keeping things from me i.e. doesn't trust me completely.
SPOILER:
Ironically, it’s Angel’s compassion with Faith in LA that set events in motion to prevent two apocalypses.
One being her help to thwart the plans of Jasmine - and enslave the planet to the “Good” powers. The other being to help thwart the plans of The First - wishing to have the planet succumb to evil.
Without Angel’s actions, the Earth would have certainly fallen, as it was he who reached Faith and restored her to her calling as The Slayer. And it was her actions in the fight against evil that tipped the scale both times.
If someone did all the things Faith did to Buffy did those things to me, I would be pissed that my ex-boyfriend was helping her lol it seems it doesnt matter what Faith does people forgive her and yet dont like or forgive how Buffy behaves? Cordy was a bully and b**ch at times, so her calling someone a whiny cry baby was never the bad ass thing people make it out to be imo.
@arc7375 I've seen this before regarding Faiths part in the fight against The First and I still don't know what she actually did? If anything it was Buffy getting the scythe and killing Caleb, and Willow and Spike doing there thing? Yeah Faith fought,along with Giles,Xander,Anya etc. But nothing specific unless I missed it?
@@paulinerobertson6836 full agreement with you.
*** spoliers ***
Faiths main contribution in the final season was to show to the Scoobies and the potentials how wrong they where when they revolted and it was a wake up call they needed to get back in line.
@@Henrik_Holst yip, pretty much. That's always been one of my issues with Faith as a character, she's mostly there as a plot device. Sometimes I cringe because she reminds me of when The Simpsons bring Poochy into Itchy and Scratchy "yo yo yo Mrs S" 🙈 😄
Don't forget the cheddar style slices
You liking Buffy/Angel over Buffy/Riley doesn't make you irrational. It just makes you one of us. :) Buffy/Angel, inasmuch as it worked for anyone, worked because they were both in a uniquely lonely position. One girl in all the world and the vampire with a soul. But incapable of completely embracing the normal experience of their respective kind. Buffy/Riley are both demon hunters, but it's something she wrestles with all the time, whereas he prefers order, clarity, etc. I'm not saying it can't work. I'm just saying it's a harder sell and I'll leave it to you to decide for yourself how well the show does at selling that it can work.
"He's so mean". well yeah, abusive manipulators do tend to be.
People from season four onwards, forget that Spike is a literal dead, mutated human body that’s puppeted around by the essence of a demon inside it.
He’s evil. He has no sympathy, compassion or redemption. Any acts of “good” or “heroism” or “selflessness” are simply actions performed in the service of things he personally wants. Not for the wellbeing of others.
The chip in his head is like keeping a dangerous individual in a jail cell. He physically is unable to hurt others.
@@arc7375 Spike definitely has layers, I always liked the idea that the original bodies personality holds some influence on the demon since the demon is using that bodies brain and that is why Spike is different from other Vamps. But yes, ultimately nothing he does is actually altruistic. I adore the actor and loved the character, but it has always been incredibly grating how many people give him a pass on basically everything he does, particularly when other characters get crapped on for basically just existing regardless of what they do.
Spike is a character made basically whole cloth of neon red flags that are there from the moment we meet him and yet so many people complain when things inevitably go where such a character was always going to go.
@@troikas3353 Spike is definitely charismatic, and certainly far more layered than Angel. And you are certainly correct when you say that the human informs the Vampire. Like a template.
whether they can or cant work, there is no doubt that buffy and angel are soul mates. Unfortunately, soul mates that really cant work given the situation, but they are meant for each other
Willow and Tara weren't in a s*xual relationship until the last episode. They used magic and spells as a substitute for that. It was very, very clear they made the next move during the ending scene of the last episode.
Girl, every time James Marsters is in the shot, I swoon. That man is so beautiful. And trust me, that feeling will just continue to grow. Hopefully that isn't considered spoiler-y.
"That man is so beautiful."I've never understood the physical appeal of James Marsters.Charisma?Sure.Handsomeness?With those creepy hollow cheeks?Absolutely not!!X-S
You may be too young to know how Yoko Ono caused The Beatles to self-destruct. That is "The Yoko Factor" from the show's title.
Or rather that she was blamed for it.
@@stainedglasspixieYeah, exactly. The show even says that she was blamed for it but the group broke themselves up.
is season five a fan favorite? Personally, I think it is the worst season, by far. I just could not stand the main villain of the season and it has been tough to power through that season, every time I have watched it, since it first aired.
I think Cordelia looks _great_ as a blonde.
Boy you were way off. The reason Oz coming hard for Willow was because Tara and she were already an item even if the scoobies didnt fully realize it. lol it’s funny that you didn’t pick up on it
*coming back lol sorry that was a faux pas
@@Nexusofgeek A Freudian faux pas.
@@Nexusofgeek do you have the 3 dots to the right of your comment? If you click on them it should give you an option to edit the comment, if you want to just fix it...
Ironically, Faith was the only one to know immediately.
But then again, Faith is also bisexual, so was easily able to identify the situation.
@@arc7375 it was also easier for Faith since she was not caught up with the situation (Buffy and the gang too far invested in the fight against Adam to look for social cues in the in-group which is also why they are growing apart as a group) and was more looking out for signs if any one had caught on that she had taken over Buffy:s body.
I'm NOT trying to sound foolish her, but PLEASE take some advice. I've noticed the last few shows that you talk more. I like that AND dislike that. Because, when you talk A LOT, you give things away. From the future episodes. You did it twice in this Post. I am not going to tell ya when or what ya said because that would be a spoiler. But rewatch it and you will see them. And believe me when I say I am NOT trying to be rude. But I am BEING direct. I want to keep enjoying your POST. But ifn they continue in this way, that is a questionable desire, I'm afraid. Hopefully you do NOT hate what I just said, but if you do, you have the right to and I will just have to deal with it. And PS. The having to wait for part 2, sucks. But, it happens. LOL. Thanx for sharing this/these with us.
No, no. Willa have been together for a while. It was just not explicit. The show uses withing as a safe euphemism for sexy things. It will be more obvious later. Also, it was Fox, the show had to be gentle at exposing vulnerable babies to homosexuality.
The pressure groups had successfully changed plot lines on the 3 main networks and really going after the WB at this time. The hit shows were all young adult shows Al Gores wife at the time, Tipper became known for her decency in entertainment initiatives and the campaigns in 2000 had a big morals underlying message. The culture wars were in full bloom and Buffy was under attack.
Angel's not my favorite. but you could cut him a little more slack. It's been...weeks? since the devastating events of "I Will Remember You", and then Buffy dropped the bomb on him about Riley, and she wasn't nice about it. (Note: I totally support her going to L.A. to kill Faith, she had both the right and the duty as The Slayer to execute her.)
Riley's not my favorite either...but he's head over heels in love with Buffy, and they've just gotten past Faith possessing Buffy-when he tells her he loves her-then he gets the (sanitized)Angel story and then the unedited version from Xander dropped on him.
Then they meet under the worst possible circumstances where there could be no peaceful resolution anyway and they HAVE to bang it out.
If I'm Angel there's no way Riley is keeping me from Buffy...and if I'm Riley there's no way I'm letting Angel flatten four of my men and get to Buffy.
It's a perfect storm.
The irony is that Buffy was very inexperienced with relationships and Angel was her first love.
Compare her behaviour in seasons 1 - 3 with Angel to Riley’s here. It’s very similar. Both insecure, needing constant validation and deeply dependant on the other, who is _far_ more self assured and mature as people, as well as in relationships.
Buffy in season 4 is in the same position Angel was in during seasons 1 - 3.
@@arc7375 Now that you mention it, wasn't Buffy Angel's first love? "Angel "only really came to life when he saw Buffy being called as Slayer. Before that, he was a rat eating shadow, before that he was the monster Angelus, and first he was the worthless drunken layabout Liam.
@@feudistTrue. His first genuine love is depicted as Buffy. He’s had many relationships before, but Buffy is shown to be the first person he truly fell in love with.
Angel however has had far longer time to develop stability within himself and maturity. So he could handle Buffy’s frantic and co-dependant needs.
Likewise, now Buffy has matured, she equally has the experience, understanding and capacity to handle Riley’s own frantic, co-dependant needs (for now!).
The scene where Riley and Buffy talk on the bed, where Riley suspects Buffy and Angel slept together in LA reminds me a lot of the moment in season 3 where Buffy became psychic and went to see Angel to find out if there was anything going on between him and Faith.
And in both these circumstances, Angel in season 3 and Buffy here, reply calmly and with understanding and logical reasoning, rather than with anger at the accusation.
This is certainly for Buffy, very mature and different compared to her previous behaviours in relationships (where she was often in Riley’s position).
This is just how I interpret it, however.
Agree with all of this. It's nice to see someone who gets Buffy's behaviour and feelings towards Faith too.
you are not alone lol everyone hates riley. i dont like angel but at least he and buffy arent boring
speak for yourself
Everyone does not hate Riley. Some people actually LIKE good relationships. Up until Riley learns about Angel he's the best relationship Buffy ever has.
oh dear god, grow up...
Discussions on Riley and Buffy are premature. Riley is decent, honorable, and is not Parker or Angelius.
Riley is simply Buffy during seasons 1 to 3 in terms of her behaviour in a relationship. They behave _very_ similarly. Both needing constant attention, validation etc, to the point of dependency.
Buffy in season 4 is in the same position as Angel was in previously.
Riley is often maligned (and true, there seems to be no chemistry between the two actors on-screen) but it’s a reflection of their immaturity and inexperience of relationships rather than a reflection on themselves as characters in their own right.
Riley, like Buffy in earlier seasons, is extremely capable and competent in their jobs of controlling demons and safeguarding humanity. Both act on the guidance and orders of their superiors (Maggie and Giles) - but due to their age, are simply not experienced in relationships.
And much like Angel previously, Buffy as the more emotionally mature party of the relationship with Riley, demonstrates deep patience and understanding with Riley and his behaviour.