"Becoming, Part 1" & "Becoming, Part 2" (2x21-2x22) | BTVS REACTION
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- Опубликовано: 30 сен 2024
- Hope you enjoy my reaction to Buffy the Vampire Slayer Season Two Episodes 21 & 22! The finaleeeeee!
UNCUT Reaction Here ~~~ / cassreacts
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Twitch: / cassiekarmadisco
guys i swear i’ve seen wiki articles about witch trials in the 1860s, im sorry😭 i know they were much more prominent in the 1600s but thought there would still be that mentality around dru’s time🤷♀️ also all apologies that i didn’t recognize darla
There are probably still witch trials someplace today. Humanity rarely ever stops doing stupid things.
@@TheRealGSmithcheckmark Islamic countries sometimes still and Africa are the last I've heard of.
Well Darla was both way back in S1 and only in a few episodes (died in episode 7) and she also looked a bit different then.
15:05 Maybe, but it is also 100 % accurate. If it had been any other vampire Buffy would not have hesitated even for a single second. Not to mention that she had the chance to kill Angel at the end of Episode 14 and didn't do it which means that she is directly responsible for every single person Angelus killed afterwards (and that where quite a few people - basically at least 1 per episode that we know of and most likely a lot more).
@@HH-hd7nd "which means that she is directly responsible for every single person" - no, just no. That is not how things works at all, Angelous is directly responsible for those, no one else.
The orb being used as a paper weight is one of those clever callback jokes this show does that you only get on rewatches. When Jenny buys the orb the guy in the shop tells her that it is useless and most of those are sold as paper weight
It’s a big part of what makes the show so rewatchable, all the call backs you pick up that many miss the first time around.
Angel once told Buffy what he did to Drusilla...in "Lie To Me".
“First I made her insane. Killed everyone she ever loved. Visited every mental torture on her I could devise. She eventually fled to a convent, and on the day she took her holy orders, I turned her into a demon.”
53:50 When they showed the first time Angel was re-ensouled, they _did_ show him disoriented and confused about where he was or what had happened; and the Kalderash man who was talking to him told him it would pass and he would remember everything. That whole scene was teasing how the second time would play out, where again, Angel was disoriented and confused, but he got the pointy end of the sword before his mind had a chance to clear.
Both Darla and Buffy telling Angel “Close your eyes” is just chef’s kiss writing.
I never noticed.
@@TheRealGSmith It's the name of their theme song.
This whole show is chef's kiss 😂
@@cedricdallaire3324 PERIOD
@@gungho1284And what a good theme it is!
"You can't just kick in the rock music after that."
How many of us have had that thought with this show?
S5E16
The Judge didn't sense "weakness" on Dru and Spike - strictly speaking. He sensed traces of _humanity,_ which admittedly to a demon like the Judge made them "unclean". However, he also sensed it in the other vampire who did their research, whom the Judge burned. At the very least this forms a pattern suggesting this is the norm for vampires and Angel is the outlier.
But, taken in context, Angel had _just_ lost his soul *_and_* fed; which conceivably made him read as "clean" by the Judge's standards.
This would arguably be supported by "I Only Have Eyes for You." After being possessed by the spirit of the teacher, Angel is scrubbing himself in the fountain, saying the feeling of that humanity made him feel dirty; and decides he needed a "vile kill" to feel better. It's plausible vile acts suppress whatever lingering humanity vampires have; and for whatever reason, Angelus is motivated more than others to suppress that humanity. So he chases that relief by being extra bloodthirsty.
The vampires didn't chase after Cordy, for the same reason they didn't stick around and feed off of Xander or Willow. Their Only target was to get Giles. Once the bookcase was pushed onto Willow she was no longer an obstacle. Once Xander was knocked out, he was no longer an obstacle. As soon as Cordy ran she was no obstacle and of no concern. If they all ran no one would have chased any of them (except Giles if he ran).
Buffy wasn't concerned with forgiving Angel, she was concerned with forgiving herself.
There’s a subtle bit of acting that I missed for years, so I point it out when I can. When Spike’s leaving in the car, there’s a moment starting @55:08 where his hand winds up in the sunlight. He pulls his hand out of the light real fast, and continues driving with his other hand in the shade. I don’t know whose decision that was (probably James, but no easy way to know, unless someone here does). Whoever it was, full marks for attention to detail.
17:00 You skipped the best line, "It's a big rock. I can't wait to tell my friends. They don't have a rock this big."
Have to disagree, the best line is 🎶"Someone wasn't worthy!"🎶 But in either case, Spike does have the best lines!
@@TheMacerica I like the "Someone wasn't worthy" line because he delivers it in the same sing-song way as "Someone's in the ceiling" from School Hard.
@@TheMacerica "Someone wasn't worthy" is the best line from Becoming pt 1, for sure.
Perhaps she does indeed have a big rock and the line was irrelevant to her.
@@TheMacerica i like "someone wasn't worthy" but the rock line is better in my opinion. It's delivered with such dedpan snark.
The way Angel reaches his hand out to Buffy even after she impaled him 😭 the look of confused beyrayal on his face 😭😭 the way Buffy cant even meet his eyes 😭😭😭
I'm fine
Expelled. Had to "kill" the love of her life after he got his soul back. Wanted for murder by the cops. Told by her mother not to come back. Giles tortured. And my favorite bit, Xander telling her that Willow said "kick his ass" - he lied, but Buffy has to believe even Willow had jumped on the "kill Angel" bandwagon.
Exactly. For Buffy she has lost everything, everyone, that made her life and slaying worth it. She thinks her mother doesnt believe her or worse, she does and hates her for it; she thinks her friends and watcher will never understand or accept her grief and confusion over Angel as they were tortured and hurt by him and Xanders false message seals that train of thought. No school. No love. Just a lot of pain, grief, loss, loneliness… no wonder she ran away. Its too much!
Best line ever from a Buffy reactor: "Dru, just trust the process."
The argument between Buffy and Joyce is inspired by coming out conversations between parents and their kids when they find out that their kid is gay.
"Have you ever tryed not to be a slayer/ gay?"
"I dont accept that/ its nothing i choosed to be"
Its just pure gold writing.
So good that it was one of the only lines they kept for the first X-Men movie from JW's original treatment. It's when Iceman's mom asks him "Have you tried not being a mutant?"
Did you see that somewhere??
That moment made both Sarah Michelle Gellar and Buffy LGBTQ icons.
Are you sure? I never interpreted it that way. Maybe it was thought up by future Buffy watchers who interpreted it that way.
I'm not saying that the parallels aren't there. I may be wrong, but is it possible that it was just about Buffy being the Slayer?
@@ronfehr7899 I'm sure I've seen that Joss Whedon confirmed it was a deliberate metaphor.
"Have another drink mom!" this is a subtle hint that Buffy's mom is a bit of a lush. She handles the stresses of Sunnydale by drinking. Joyce may not be a "bad" drunk, but she must get drunk, or at least overdrink enough that Buffy has picked up on it.
When Kendra shows up she doesn’t look quite the same. She’s dressed just like Buffy. It’s a nice detail that is usually overlooked.
Re Whistler and his purpose: If you go back and review what he says, he's pretty direct (or at least as direct as a wisecracking mysterious messenger can be) about who he is and what he's doing. He tells Angel, and Buffy, that he's been sent to balance the scales between good and evil, and that Angel needs to play a part in it. And though he's a demon, he tells Angel that not all demons are dedicated to the destruction of life, so we can assume that whoever sent him (that, admittedly, is a bit vague) wants to preserve life, so they are on the side of good.
Yep and if you've seen the rest of the whole series you know what his role is ultimately meant to be
When buffy is on the bus leaving Sunnydale, the sign says "Now Leaving Sunnydale, Come Back Soon." They had just learned that the show had been picked up for a 3rd season, so they added that to let the fans know there would be another season. Because nothing had been announced at that point.
There’s a philosophical conversation happening in these two episodes of Being vs. Becoming that’s only become noticeable to me as a grad student watching your reaction. It’s an existential and post war phenomena where more people push back against the idea of innate essence that people are inherently good or bad or witches or dammed or vampire etc. Satre and other existentialists argue that if essence is less of a driving force than existence, aka being is less important than the choices of becoming (active version of being) then at the core we are nothing or close to nothing and the most important thing are our actions and choices. Yes this episode seems to say that essence is real aka angel’s soul, buffy saying to angel famously that what’s left without all of her friends etc what she has is “me”. But when Buffy and the whole gang experience a lot of tragedy, there’s that whole narration at the end of the first part that’s like “Bottom line is, even if you see 'em coming, you're not ready for the big moments. No one asks for their life to change, not really. But it does. So what are we, helpless” Buffy and the gang face this tragedy head on and defy the helplessness in face of tragedy. Buffy chooses to name her identity, she chooses to walk out her door after what her mom says, she doesn’t just let the police take her, she chooses to have that tender moment with angel yet sacrifice his life and her love in acknowledging angel’s actions as irreversible. It’s really poetic that this show always reveals new layers when you watch it again. I’m contemplating the active role of becoming while also acknowledging the extent to which we may have inherent essence as well. Really enjoyed this reaction ❤️
I am and have always been 1500000% TeamBuffy when it comes to this show. So, at the end, I was devastated when she had to kill Angel, because she was. Because she's now killed him twice. And I feel that's why she ran away. She feels like Jenny died because of her, that Kendra died because of her, that she's responsible for Willow ending up in the hospital, Giles being tortured for hours on end, for all of it. Buffy doesn't think Angel is to blame for Jenny's death. She blames herself.
Its very much like Buffy to shoulder the blame for when things go wrong. I feel so bad for her.
Buffy brings death to all those around her. In a way.
I think the "you fall for it every singe time" line when he lured Buffy away so he could capture her friends is a reference to the start of the season when The Anointed One did the same thing and lured Buffy away to capture her friends in his plan to use them to revive the Master
You should always be a bit scared of a season finale of Buffy.
Also, always mourning Jenny, Kendra…. & other characters
Also also. You assume all demons are bad… but demons just have a different sense of morality, not all demons seek the destruction of our world / humanity.
I feel like you should watch Warrior Nun, which is very Buffy-esque (but also very queer with more Catholicism).
When Giles says he was using his Orb of Thessila as a paper weight, that is a call back to the shop keeper telling Ms. Calendar that he sells them to tourists as paper weights. It seems they are quite plentiful, but have been rendered useless because the magic to make use of them was lost to time. Until now that is.
Becoming part 1 was a great lead into the brilliant S2 finale Becoming part 2. So much in this episode to digest. The loss of Kendra, Angel's back story being turned by Darla, and we also see Drusilla being tormented by Angelus in The Confessional. At least the floppy disk has been found, and Willow can now work her magic. We now have the climax to come of the brilliant last episode. I think you can now really see how this show engrosses all reactors that enter The Buffyverse! and, S3 is a near flawless Season, even better than this!
Becoming part 2 was a terrific ending to S2 setting up the brilliant S3. Here we see Buffy faced with the ultimate heart breaking choice to kill her lover or save the world. We of course know she will make the right choice. Willow comes through at the end, but Buffy has to go through with the final act. So poignant at the end when from afar Buffy sees her friends but decides to leave Sunnydale, Joyce too is so regretful as she knows Buffy is now gone after their terrible row, all against the backdrop of Sarah McLachlan's beautiful haunting ballad Full Of Grace. I think we can see you are now hooked on the show, as are all reactors that enter 'The Buffyverse' and it only gets better. You will love S3 it's incredible!
Snyder was never a “heehee-haha” type of character. He was always meant to be an antagonist to not just our main characters, but to the students overall. Just because some of his line deliveries are funny doesn’t mean he was a character we were ever supposed to “like” or feel fond of. Snyder has always wanted Buffy out of the school because he thought of her as a troublemaker. Snyder is meant to represent “the establishment” or “the man” so to speak.
I always considered him evil. He has previously shown disrespect for the police.
I doubt the authorities want an incredibly powerful young woman who is not under their absolute control doing anything.
They don’t want to work with her, they want her out of the picture.
@@Richard_Ashton You're just prejudiced because he's a ferengi!
@@Ironoclasty How can I be prejudiced just because I’ve already made up my mind?
I like him, am fond of him, and think he’s hilarious. Just because he’s an antagonist doesn’t mean he’s a supervillain 😂
@@Richard_Ashton Touche' Well played, sir!
Really nice reaction. Becoming is definitely when Buffy the show is firing on all cylinders. One of the things about Dru and her powers is that she and Buffy seem to have duelling prophetic dreams. Dru dreamt Angel would be at her party during Innocence and Surprise. Angel wanted to torture Buffy the way he tortured Dru, etc.
I think the shopkeeper told Jenny people use the spheres as paperweights in the episode when she got hers.
"Remember that one time..." In band camp?
Sometimes slo-mo is for dramatic effect. Others are to cover for slow runners. This could be for both.
We have to consider television censorship when determining the severity of wounds. It would be more obvious if there was arterial blood squirting from the wound and spraying everywhere, but it’s TV in the 90’s and kids may be watching. So we have to work with a fatal neck scratch.
Personally, I would have preferred a blood pack squeezed between the fingers when she put her hand to her throat to make it a little more clear. It doesn’t have to be accurately graphic. But it’s devastating enough once it’s clear what was supposed to be going on. So it works as is, I think.
49:45 Never forget Spike is a vampire. He has more human characteristics than Angelus, but he's still a vampire
Great reaction as always, and very observant about some of the smaller points!
I think you missed two things though: they emphasized that when Angel fist gets his soul returned to him (even the first time the Gypsies cursed him), he couldn’t remember what happened without his soul at first… It takes a little while for him to remember, and then he suffers from it. That’s why he was so confused when he got his soul back.
And also, it was much worse than Buffy killing her first love… she sent him to hell! This was also explained by Whistler… that when the demon awoke, stabbing the person who woke him would end it so the entire world would not be swallowed physically into hell, but the person who opened the portal would be sucked into hell, which you saw happen right as the portal closed. And since Angel is a vampire, being stabbed by a metal sword hurts him, but it doesn’t kill him. He was swallowed into hell to suffer for eternity, and Buffy knows she’s done that to the person she loves. Extremely tragic.
The first interaction between Angel and Buffy was in S1E1 - he was following her down an alley, she did a handstand on a pole above the alleyway and swung down behind him and knocked him down.
The Cordelia thing was not suspicious. I would agree with whatever the comment was mentioned at the beginning about overanalyzing things. Like yeah, you're "watching for the first time" - but while the show may be clever, it's not some grand mystery where every sentence should be picked apart and analyzed like a Dan Brown novel. Especially if you mishear or misinterpret what someone says. There's no prize for figuring things out before the show tells you.
Essentially, Cordelia said she was so scare she didn't notice no one was chasing her. She didn't say anything about not being important enough to be chased.
There doesn't need to be any greater meaning inferred from that, because all it was meant to communicate was just how scare she was; and that she was actually embarrassed that, unlike the others who stayed and fought, she was so preoccupied with her own survival, she drove through almost three counties before realizing her fear was unjustified. By reading more into that, you miss the part where it's kind of a humanizing moment for Cordelia, because she's actually admitted disappointment in herself for not being braver.
And it's not just necessarily you; it's any easy rabbit hole to fall down, especially for a reactor. Alley Box picked up on a word said by a character at the start of one season and spent like a quarter of the season trying to figure out how the plot was connecting back to that word, when it was just a word and had nothing to do anything.
Are there Easter Eggs that potentially have double meanings you may or may not pick-up on until they payoff later? I, nor hopefully anyone else will ever tell, because the point of watching is to find out, and react to what's happening. There _might_ be things you can reasonably pick-up and other things you may never guess until it's revealed. There may be layers fans who have been watching for 20 years have only just picked up through re-watches or discussion. Theories are fine to a point, but if you try out-thinking the show and stay ten steps ahead of it, you're not in the moment; and that's when you miss what's actually happening.
I like how you put that. I'm mostly here to see the actual reactions, not analyses, but Cass does get some things SPOT ON and that's fun to see, and then other things are BIG YIKIES to know she's going to regret wishing for something when it finally comes. 😁 And that's a lot of fun too.
@@JhadeSagrav Honestly, I gave up watching Cass' reactions when she started season 4 but wasn't reacting to Angel (on RUclips). I never quite got into her reactions much; in part because of the over-analysis, but also, I'm not entirely convinced she hadn't seen the show before. Like, the she makes these random predictions are are _way_ too accurate; and is either she's a really good guesser, clairvoyant or seen the show. And yeah, she whiffs on some of the predictions, but to such a wild degree that it reads to me more like she's just trying to cover her bases and not appear to be right too often. I could be wrong. There's another Buffy reactor I started watching around the same time I'm a little suspicious of too. Who knows?
🤷♂
As usual, you ask so many good questions, and (as usual) we can't really answer most of them without being spoilery. 😶But one that feels fairly safe is you speculating about just who pre-vampire Drusilla was. At the time this was airing, some of my online friends and I speculated that perhaps Dru was a potential Slayer. It's been established that Slayers have prophetic dreams (Buffy sometimes has them). We used to look for clues that showed parallels between Dru and Buffy. The only one I can remember now is how, in the "Surprise" episode, Dru is having a party and getting gifts at the same time as Buffy. Nothing further was ever revealed about it, but that doesn't mean we were wrong.
I remember when I saw your reaction to School Hard I thought you might have missed a significant bit and your confusion over Snyder affirms it. His reaction to the vampires attacking the school and discussion with the person from the mayor's office over whether they can blame it on PCP, plus the look of worry when he's told the mayor wants to talk to him... he's definitely known all along
That was a detective working for the police department, but the police department is fully complicit with the mayor, so it's a minor distinction.
"The only reason we put more thought into it for Angel is we know him." I mean, exactly. If some weird thing happened to someone I loved that turned them into a monster (like a brain tumor) but I could bring the original person back without them dying (like surgery), then yes. It's easy for Xander to say kill Angel because Xander never liked him. Also, it seems like you're still misunderstanding the ghost possession episode (unless this commentary was made prior to posting the reaction vid) because it was about Buffy forgiving herself for what she perceived was her fault, not about forgiving Angel.
Did miss or accidentally skip over it, but was there no commentary on Xander not telling Buffy that Willow was going to attempt the spell again? A heads up but it's one of the The Biggest controversy about Xander in the show's existence, so it is big lore.
So why don’t we do the same for every other vampire? There are a number who were known to Buffy previously and they are always to be killed.
While I can’t fault him for feeling the way he does and Xander is still a teenager, it was very selfish of him and did infuriate me
Especially cuz it’s most likely that he was doing it cuz of his own personal dislike of Angel in the first place rather then for the sake of saving the world
Go back to 1:47. She does address the ghost possession episode “I Only Have Eyes for You”. She got it after reading comments from that post. But yeah, it looks like she glossed over Xander’s “Big Lie” in the finale- thank you for pointing it out!
If you can’t forgive, can you expect to ever be forgiven?
I definitely felt for Angel & also felt horrible for Buffy at the end of this season.
Okay. About the Joyce bit though. You've gotta understand when Joyce tells Buffy, "If you walk out that door, don't even think about coming back", she isn't actively trying to get Buffy to leave forever. She's desperately trying (albeit, pretty poorly) to stop her from leaving. It's a classic parental idle threat that Joyce is making under a crazy amount of psychological stress. The police have said Buffy's been implicated in a murder, that several of her closest friends (whom Joyce herself cares about) are seriously injured, and Buffy herself has gone missing.
Since then, Joyce has been panic-driving around Sunnydale only to find Buffy's back home with some guy she doesn't (immediately) recognize. For Joyce, Buffy's behavior seems bizarre. The police are after her, Willow is in the hospital, and someone has been murdered, but Buffy seems pretty chill. That is, until a gangster on PCP jumps out of some petunias and Buffy instantly vaporizes him with a quick mortal chest wound. And while to Buffy (and to us) this is just another night in Sunnydale, for Joyce, her evening of blind panic has just turned into a spontaneous existential crisis.
As a result of her mind now shattering into a thousand shrieking pieces, Joyce resorts to the only coping mechanism she has ever known (denial), but this time she needs a cheeky drink or three just to get there. During which, she realises the strange man with her daughter is actually the guy who tried to slaughter them both on parent-teacher night a couple weeks ago.
Nothing Buffy says makes any sense (because Buffy is in save-the-world mode, and Joyce has literally zero points of reference for anything that's happening) so, to Joyce, it sounds like Buffy is have some kind of a mental breakdown (which, thanks to Joyce's own mental breakdown, is an easier reality for her to accept than the existence of demons and the possibility that her daughter is some kind of vampire-vigilante), and when Joyce desperately seeks some kind of sound explanation for all the insanity, Buffy just tells her to "have another drink" (which not only breaks the camel's back; it also busts his kneecaps, and comes back later for his kids). So Joyce finally snaps. (Which, frankly, isn't just understandable. It's basically obligatory. You'd have to be a robot Dalai Lama on xanax to keep it chill at this point). And when she frantically tries to prevent Buffy from leaving, Buffy responds with a quick demonstration of how Slayer strength works and shoves her into the kitchen counter. With the amount of batshit crazy Joyce has now experienced, her only three options are really "standard rage", "inconsolable scream-crying" or "catatonic fugue"; so she goes with the first.
So yeah, Joyce 100% said the wrong thing, but how many people out there would really handle it any better? And, more importantly, we see that Joyce immediately regrets her actions. She didn't mean it; she just snapped in a moment of panic, pain, and exasperation. So let's not judge Joyce too harshly; she's human and made a mistake. If you've ever said something in anger to a loved one that you instantly regretted (especially without the involvement of homicide suspicions and existential crises concerning the supernatural), spare a little love for Joyce. She's having an unusual evening.
But otherwise, hey, judge away - and sorry about your porch, that's gotta be a super weird sweep. Like, do you even keep the broom after that?
Your. Freaking. Metaphors. Bro. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Thank you for this literary masterpiece.😂😂😂
You need to watch the end credits atvthe end of this episode. The little "arrgh urgh" guy.
I feel like with Buffy, the show treats their one offs, campy stand alones, as part of the process, like with a good meal, you might want to cleanse your palate before dessert, and by doing so, it changes they way you experience the following episode or story, and when done well, it is intentional and perfect
You watched Becoming without crying??? Is it possible to learn this power?
"I don't know what kind of season finales the show is going to have"
me: heavy breathing
Re the debate around restoring Angel's soul: For me it has nothing to do with forgiveness vs. not forgiving, because it's straightforwardly clear that ensouled Angel would *never* have allowed himself to do the things he did while soulless, nor was it ever a choice he made to lose his soul. The entire situation was something that happened *to* him against his will, so to me it's a no brainer that of course if there's the opportunity to restore his soul that's what they should do.
Now, with that said, Xander would have absolutely had a point if they still had no idea about the spell and Buffy was still holding off on killing Angel despite there being no tangible hope that his soul could be restored. If that was the case, then absolutely, whether it was Angel's fault or not, the situation was that he needed to be stopped and if there was no way to restore his soul then killing him was the only option. But the fact that he was making this argument specifically at the moment it WAS clear there was another option to try is what makes no sense. Because like... of course, now that they found the spell that very well could work, why would they not try that first? They had it there and ready to be tried, and if it didn't work, then it's right back to the killing Angel plan which Buffy was fully prepared to go through with. But meanwhile, if it did work, it's not just morally better, but practically speaking, ensouled Angel is a massive asset in the fight for good! There is everything to gain from trying the spell first before jumping right to killing him, and very little to lose. So Xander was just purely coming from a place of hatred for Angel; nothing to do with a logical conclusion for peoples' safety. Sure the world would be safer without Angel altogether than with him still existing and soulless, but it would be safEST with him in it and ensouled again.
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Considering the near apocalypse in Season 3 and the events of his own spin off show, the world was definitely better with Angel in it there to also fight the evil, and he played a part in the season 3 finale of course with fighting alongside everyone
The memory loss when Angel is re-ensouled by Willow is referenced in the previous episode as well. Angel says “Where am I?” and the Romani man replies “You don’t remember. Everything you have done for the past 100 years. In a moment you will.”
Prophetic visions don't seem to be related to witchcraft. Indeed, in this universe witchcraft can be taught, but I don't remember anyone studying visions.
I was the same age as Buffy when I saw this. Her sacrifice was so heroic and this episode has stayed with me.
Objectively speaking, an Ensouled Angel saves lives on a regular basis so that's the only choice. He's actively out there fighting evil.
The math of kill/restore angel is really simple to me: if you restore Angel, then Buffy doesn't have to risk her life in an extra-traumatising fight.
This finale is perfection, my heart breaks everytime Buffy has to kill angel with his soul intact. Plus all the angel backstory is great
I love the Whistler voiceover. It seems like a lot of fans don't like him, but for me he's the perfect narrator
What the show wanted to tell you about Xander hearing Willow say "Oz" was that he was momentarily surlrised, but then stepped aside immediately. When it mattered, he wasn't jealous. Because he's really much better than his sporadic adolescent rants suggest.
Many of your questions will be answered eventually. Some won't.
And you cut out two of my favorite quotes. ;)
As for your questions: I'm absolutely NOT Team Xander on this one. He's always hated Angel, mostly for selfish reasons. Not telling Buffy about Willow's second attempt at the spell was a d*ck move too. The show is filled with Shakespearean characters. Everyone's flawed in some way. Everyone messes up. Some more than others.
And yes, I felt very bad for Angel in his final moments. He can't be held accountable for what he did while he was literally robbed of his conscience.
I guess having your soul restored is a rather disorienting experience. I imagine Angel would have remembered after a couple of minutes. Or maybe Willow's spell was a bit sloppy. It's rather advanced magic. Only few could pull it off.
Considering her perspective and the information she had, I think Joyce handled the whole outing situation much better than one could expect from her. She could have just fainted or gone insane.
As for Snyder: Yes, that man just really hates kids. Highschool kids in particular. And attractive highschool girls probably most of all, based on his reaction to Buffy's dating remark.
You wanted characters to deal with the emotional repercussions of the trauma they go through. It was mostly lacking in Season 1 but is very present now.
If you didnt notice, the vampire who turned Angel was Darla, the blonde vampire girl from season 1
Been looking forward to this reaction! ✨ Xander not passing on the message to Buffy that Willow's doing the spell is my 13th reason
Or maybe Buffy doesn't live long enough to save the world if she's holding back in a fight she comes close to losing anyway. Willow thought she would have time to stall. Xander thought she shouldn't be distracted by a maybe with the entire world on the line. He was wrong about not attempting the spell earlier, they lose nothing by trying and maybe take the most dangerous piece off the board, but it is less clear here.
@@mintyfresh3533 If I may say, as someone who was never a big fan of Angel to begin with, I really don't even have issues with Xander wanting him gone rather than cured (which, btw, is it a cure? Because isn't it supposed to be a curse?). The dude killed Jenny, and honestly if there's one thing I don't like is how quickly the fanbase just forgets about that. Also, Angel and Angelus aren't really two separate entity, the only difference between the two is that one has a conscience and the other doesn't. That's literally why the spell works as a curse; because the things Angelus did, that's also the things Angel did.
@@ChevaliersEmeraudeDo people also forget BBB where Angel was seconds away from killing Xander until Dru stepped in?
@@ChevaliersEmeraude Every single description in the show of what vampires are describes them as two separate beings. Even from the very first time they have this kind of talk RE: Jesse "You aren't looking at your friend, you're looking at the thing that killed him." Vamps are demons living in a human body. Angel is a human sharing his body with a demon who is constrained by his soul. They share knowledge and even some personality traits with the body's original owner, but it's made abundantly clear that in no uncertain terms Vampires and the humans they took over are absolutely two different people.
Spoilers
This is made even more explicit as the series goes on. When Angel get body swapped in Carpe Noctem, his body keeps the demon, he doesn't take it with him. Darla's epiphany about being human before Dru turns her, even Spike in Lies My Parents told me realizes he wasn't talking to his mother, and Souled!Spike is able to understand that he needs to grow as a person before seeing Buffy instead of forcing himself on her repeatedly, up to the point of SA.
@@ChevaliersEmeraude I have to second what @jackmars931 said- it’s made very clear that Angel and Angelus are not the same being, it’s the equivalent of being possessed by a demon, of course they should try and cure him before killing him like they’d do for any of the scoobies, he’s their friend (albeit not Xander’s, he’s hated him from the start out of petty jealousy)
I will never be a fan of Xander, he’s done too many questionable things and he doesn’t have the excuse of being possessed so 😅
As i know ur a lyrics girlie .... PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE Listen to 'Faith in the Future' by Louis tomlinson....He has such a unique voice and is an amacing lyricist ...my fave: "We're sleepin' on our problems
Like we′ll solve them in our dreams
We wake up early mornin′ and they're still under the sheets" like...AHHHRRRHAAAAAHHHHHHRRRGG
I am judging you for not crying. I guess you preferred Jenny (and Giles) to Angel (and Buffy). Each to their own then :)
The “va-g-niss” 😂
Sorry, caught me by surprise. Is that how some people pronounce vagueness? I pronounce it as “Vay-g-niss”. Am I pronouncing it wrong 🤔
I just finished watching your reaction and I really liked a lot of the points you brought up. Telling Drew "to trust the process" actually made me laugh out loud.
I really like the metaphor behind this episode in this season. Besides the metaphors of sex and responsibility of sex. I read that angel is also a metaphor for alcoholism. Buffy being in love with him and wanting the best for him even though he's an alcoholic and has issues. I like that the metaphor is you can choose to be your own person and have choice or be stuck in hell or this relationship. I wish more shows and movies would say it's okay to be in love with someone but also do the healthy thing for yourself and leave that person too.
I am not Team Bangel by any means but this is a prime example of why I cannot stand Xander. His deep seeded hatred for Angel majorily comes from Buffys infactuation with Angel and disinterest in him. The most popular girl in school loves him, his best friend that was pining for him that he has zero interest in, and it feels like he is constantly nobody loves me everybody hates me why don't I eat worms mentality. Complete lack of self awareness that Buffy feels about him the way he feels about Willow. Now suddenly Willow says Oz and he seems hurt? Like my guy wants multiple cakes. I try to give some grace because hes supposed to be a teenage boy and our brains aren't fully developed but sometimes I just wanna thwack him with a book.
LOVE your reacts! I hope you enjoy this series as much I do. Absolutely a FANTASTIC series to watch and analyze!
Wrong year and place for most of the most famous witch burnings.
9:15 Wtichunts in 1860? That seems very late I was under the impression they died out in the 1750s.
I believe they still happen today, although of course not in well-developed countries.
In The Gambia, about 1,000 people accused of being witches were locked in government detention centers in March 2009.
Aaaannd we're back! We have arrived to the end of season 2 😮 Cant wait for your reactions moving forward
Love your new background!
I have been looking forward to these 2
Episodes-
Season 2 has such a great arc.
I also love the title
Becoming part 1 and 2
I think it is summed up when angelus says to Buffy about having no family, no friends- take all that away what do you have? And she takes that moment of inner strength and says ME… it just gets me!
I also feel Joyce reacted horribly to buffys reveal but she was just in shock- I think when she reads the letter you can see how upset she is.
Also another line that always gets me- Dru as a highly religious young girl- “I don’t want to be an evil thing--“ angelus knew how to get to the core of what destroys a person
Dru’s line
Also I remember being so upset and confused and angel being re-ensouled and dying- I was a few years behind when it came out when I watched it so I knew there was a show Angel- I got so confused than I remembered like you did that there is 100s of years of angels history - I remember really wanting to know how that show was gonna work/ be….
I thought Drusilla was a Slayer in waiting.
Oh bless. You have so much more faith in Buffy about her relationship with Angel.
I love that you, Cassie. At least considered an acknowledged that giving Angel his soul back IS a difficult choice. I think the fight scene and the Lie are major reasons people hate Xander and can't see past his faults, which honestly tend to surface A LOT, but emotions aside, I think Xander and probably Giles would still air on the side of Killing him. Like, yeah, maybe Xander carries some jealousy, but I dont think that's what drives his motives. But that's just me.
Also, I'm sorry you felt the need to apologize for not fully understanding 'I'll only Have eyes for you" I'm sure you received thousands of comments about it and I personally find that so annoying that people don't consider that they're not the only one to comment the same thing and the effects that has on reactors. You are definitely not stupid or unempathetic, it's an episode that takes time to process and I'm sure you would have figured it out on your own without thousands of people screaming it at you.
i think it would be morally wrong to return every vampire's soul instead of slaying them. those souls didnt do the wrong, the demons did. why should the souls have to suffer? that is why it is revenge
You are certainly intuitive when it comes to predictions. Some of what you say will come to pass but much later.
Druscilla was a psychic, not a witch, she was born with the ability to see things and because she was overly religious she often felt she was sinning. Angelus knowing that she was a child of God couldn't help but driving her mad and then turning her in that tailspin for eternity. This is why Druscilla is the way she is hearing voices. Makes her a much more dangerous vampire.
Whistler's mission is explored later but I can't really get into that without spoilers, but as he says not all Demons want to end the world. Something even Spike also says to Buffy. Remember if you're religious Demons are fallen Angels, so they don't all have evil in them, they just ended up caught up in the war between God and Satan.
DC Universe created the whole multiverse concept in comics with The Flash. I know for non-comic book readers you won't know that because WB keeps sabotaging their universe by listening to people who don't actually read comics.
Speaking of No One Will Save You, it felt like a cross between Invasion of the Body Snatchers and the Superman story "For the One Who Has Everything" where Superman is attacked by an alien that forces him to experience life if he never leaves Krypton.
Spike and Druscilla do have a connection that's unusual for other vampires, something Spike talks about later on. I see Spike as Whedon's version of Lestat from the Anne Rice book series. Though he's worse than Lestat there are similarities.
Joyce's reaction is understandable, she's getting all this new information and then told she has no control over it. Put the fact she is still Buffys mom and Buffy isn't listening I'd be mad too. So Joyce's reaction is very human.
There's a few set ups for Season 3 as well as other future stuff.
The moment Angel got his soul he didn't remember immediately , it took a minute, the Gypsy is the one who reminds him of what he's done.
There's a new audiobook series called Slayers, which has most of the cast coming back & taking place after the show and comics(Season 8 & 9 specifically). Don't want to say the plot as that may spoil this show.
The trap Angel uses to lure Buffy away from her friends is a fantastic call back to the 1st episode of the season. "And you fall for it every time!"
There’s a lot I projected as a queer person coming out onto buffy coming out as a vampire slayer and Joyce saying things like “have you ever tried not being a slayer”, “it’s because you didn’t have a strong father figure isn’t it” and ultimately kicking her out. I think it was somewhat intentional to make it similar to the weight of a teenager or person taking ownership of who they are even at their parents disapproval.
Just to touch on a minor point in this packed pair of episodes ... I don't blame Cass for suspecting Cordelia for a minute, though that had never occurred to me before. I think that little scene was one of many sprinkled throughout the early seasons of the series expressly to add complexity to Cordelia, to show that when push comes to shove she can be serious, caring,, vulnerable, and self-aware. Stereotypical Cordelia might be expected to just run and think no more of it except her own fear. But she felt bad for running. And by the way, Cordelia did leave the hospital room before Xander's scene with Willow, but to get coffee for Xander ... another rare moment of sincerity and thoughtfulness in a crisis.
And ofc no one chased her for the simply reason that the Vamps where fully committed to just fetch Giles.
I'm so excited!!!
I really, really enjoy ur reactions and I can't wait to see what u think of future seasons :D
This isn't about forgiveness. No one's forgiving Angelus and Angel is not responsible for his actions
Don't forget Xander's viewpoint! He claims Angel and Angelus are interchangeable entities.
@@tornadochaser2457 Yes! And I believe Xander's logic in this instance is flawed
This explains that Drusilla was born with the visions. She either would have been executed for being a witch, or sent away to an insane asylum, which were little more than dungeons for early death back then. According to Lie To Me, she was about to become a nun when Angel turned her. But that was after she lost her whole family.
Whistler was a messenger demon, sent by some higher powers to recruit Angel into helping Buffy. But also to learn how to be more like her in fighting evil, which was supposed to include stopping Acathla. The point being he's supposed to have a destiny to do more that sit around back alleys, eating rats. They were actually finalizing plans for the spin-off at this point.
Since Angel didn't even remember what happened, it shows that Angel's soul is not in the driver's seat when the demon takes over. But he'll eventually remember as he can access all those memories stored in his brain.
This is where Willow becomes a real witch. Another "becoming" for the list.
I'm pretty sure Snyder knew Buffy was the slayer and he's working for the mayor. And definitely some of the cops are in on it too.
Did you miss the grr arrgh monster at the end of the credits? You're supposed to watch it in this one.
Awesome Post, Cass. I have to admit, I posted a comment earlier explaining how Buffy wasn't responsible for Angel loosing his Soul, or getting it back, and then my Coffee kicked in and woke me up. When he lost his Soul AFTER Him and Buffy did the,,, Nasty., LOL. I did delete it, but I'm sure that someone saw it. So, I admit that I was a fool and made a foolish AND WRONG comment. I admit that. Forgive me, please. LMAO! Season 2 was the season that made "INPROVEMENTS" sound even better than the first time they said it. IMO, that was Good, getting Better. Looking forward to Season 3. GREAT Post, Cass. 🤗
Hi Cass. New viewer of your page.
I am here just for really amazing 90-2000’s movie suggestions:
Freeway, election, jawbreaker, Romy & Michelle‘s high school reunion, Wild Things and But, I’m a cheerleader.
That’s all I can think of for her right now. But, I hope you take any of my suggestions and use them for content.
In the End...if you live in a place like Sunnydale....with Vampires and monsters...then Cursing Angel again is the best thing. You are stronger with him..then him being Evil and playing for..the other team.
Tbf on joice buffy and spike werent at the house that long, they probably weren't there for more than 40 mins at most. Then shes hearing buffy talk about killing people and then trying to rush off. If you heard your child talking about that kinda stuff youd probably think they were haveing a mental break
15:45 Angel still wears it, only he turned it in the opposite direction.
I feel so bad for Angel at the end of this. I mean, I of course feel Buffy's pain, but Angel has just been stabbed and sent to hell by the woman he loves and he has no idea why. And even though I think the scene works perfect and wouldn't change it, maybe Buffy could have said something instead of telling him to close his eyes and running a sword through him. Like, very quickly, say "the world is about to be sucked into hell, the only way to stop it is to spill your blood and let this demon take you instead." I think Angel would have been willing to sacrifice himself.
Also, I never understand when people believe what Spike says. He's showing how much of a hypocrite he is. He says he loves this world with people in it, but he was the one who put the Judge back together and encouraged him to burn every human, which would have left them without any "happy meals with legs", and then he walks away when Angel is about to kill Buffy, in which case, again, end of the world and he human buffet. Just saying...
Various beings in the Buffyverse can have precognitive abilities. Buffy (the Slayer) herself has had precognitive dreams,
The soul returning has always been seen as a punishment to me. I would not want to return any of their souls because the soul/ person is innocent of whatever the vampire does and is therefore tortured by the memories and crimes of whatever the demon did...I would be on the side of Angel getting his soul back both/either because I wanted revenge and/ or because he is a loved one. I'm also just wondering, but why do you keep assuming Buffy no longer loves Angel? Because she hates the demon possessing his body she cannot love the human soul and mourn his, until part one, "death?" Also, these episodes cemented my hatred of Xander because he just wanted to kill Angel because "if I can't have Buffy, no one can" (personal takeaway from the show to this point). At that point, Giles, Willow, and Buffy are the only ones with true beef with Angelus (or whatever his spelling is).
*This was from the first part, I had to level before watching the second
Gonna quote Mark Watches (great site, check it out!) in defense of Xander - "With some time to reflect on his choice, I feel less certain that it’s easy to determine whether he was right or wrong in his actions. Obviously, on its face, it’s a horrific lie, one that Buffy will suffer for greatly, so I do think there’s a whole lot to be argued for this position. But at the same time, Buffy has had the chance to kill Angelus before, and she didn’t. I don’t believe that Angelus is Buffy’s responsibility by any means. Yet she is truly the only person who could defeat him, and I think Xander didn’t want to derail the possibility that she might actually do it. Angelus murdered their friend and other people. He tortured Giles. He’s ruined lives, and now he is opening a door that’ll suck all of existence to Hell. Yeah, I don’t feel bad saying that killing Angel is pretty much excused in my own moral book if that’s what it will take to _stop the world from going to hell_
The audience is supposed to assume that restoring a vampire's soul is so complicated and difficult that it wouldn't be worth it for most cases. Also, logically, not every human is a good or strong person, so even succeeding at restoring them wouldn't necessarily "fix" the vampire. Just making them feel bad about what they are would probably just make them really indecisive and whiny, like an Anne Rice vampire. Angel is more than that.
there is nothing suspicious about Cordy running and being ok. The Vampires werent there to kill everyone they were only there for Giles
"joyce"...come on, this sounds mad to her, its a lot dumped on her, she is scared, she has already moved because of buffy (burning down a gym...), and buffy just assaulted her...she has no way of keepign buffy there, so in the heat of the moment tries to emotionally blackmail her....sure its not great, but comeon, cut the poor woman some slack.
Whistler is not really helping Angel… it’s more the other way around : he’s recruiting. Some people/ demons work for the greater good. They know who Angel is, what he’s capable of ( angelus was famous for his huge evilness) So they figured : hey, better have him on our side than against us ( like losing his soul, turning evil again and give the good guys trouble) …
Seems unusual that Drusilla had absolutely zero interest in drinking slayer blood, what with her being a vampire and all
Was that a thing at this point? They might not have come up with that idea yet.
They had to fetch Giles before Buffy showed up, they where on a tight schedule.
@@gungho1284 Hmm... you may have a point. Call me old-fashioned but because I grew up on horror movies it seems weird watching vampires murder and show no interest in drinking blood.
Nothing against the show though, it's been my favorite for years
I'm team return Angel soul all the way! For multiple reasons, first reason is more strategic; before he hurts anyone else, restoring his soul is a good plan B. 2nd Angel is innocent and what's going on. The thing about the curse is you're not actually punishing the demon itself who is actually responsible but you're punishing Angel who never would have done any of those things. Killing him is a good option of course but I think for our heroes they should at least try to help the innocent victim. There is a limit of course you don't want too many people to die as a result.
Also Angel did forget for a second in the flashback too. The man even says "you don't remember? Give it time soon you'll remember everything." So him not remembering for a bed is consistent. In the flashback he does remember faster for some reason but forgetting is still a thing.
I wonder if vampires in this universe vampires are against the idea of witchcraft. You don't really see vampire witches in the first 2 seasons, so I wonder if vampires are against the idea of using and practicing magic. I know in True Blood the vampires were very fearful of witches because witches could raise and control the dead/undead.
As much as I like Angel I'm definitely on team Kill Angel. Even if you restore his soul, in another hundred, two hundred, five hundred years he slips again and then what? Another murder rampage. As long as he has the demon inside him he's a ticking time bomb and you never know when he'll go off.
I think you're the first to predict that Kendra was back just to die of the reactors I've watched.
It's always been my theory that Willow was possessed by someone from the clan of that originally cursed him. That one of them saw what she was trying to do and wanted to make sure it worked. And given that two members of that clan were in Sunnydale when they died, Jenny and her uncle, it was probably one of them. Probably Jenny since she had been going over that particular version of the restoration spell which seems to have been slightly different from the one that was heard in the flashback to when he was cursed.
Anybody can learn witchcraft, though some people are particularly apt (just like there are people who a particularly good at math, or art). Drusilla was prescient, which is a kind of clairvoyance that allows her to have premonitions of the future.
Angel drinking the blood of Darla from her breast is important. It signifies her as his "mother," she "Breast fed" him as a mother breast feeds their child. Notice later (or earlier in our case) that Drusilla called Angel her "daddy."
Buffy having to kill Angel always breaks me
nah most vampires should be eliminated. even if they have souls, they still need blood, and they can still suffer knowing they can't be a part of the world.
Joyce choosing to kick Buffy out always ruined her character for me, as a parent you sign up to be a parent, you don’t get to kick your children out once it gets hard, no one will ever tell me Joyce is a good parent, she’s a horrible mother and Buffy deserves better
Are you still reading comments on Patreon and discord? I'm asking cuz it looks like you don't anymore but i might be wrong 🤭
The show showed its real potential this season with darker tones, despite some filler episodes. Buffy breaking down & crushing the Master's bones., Jenny and Kendra's deaths, Drusilla's dark lunacy, the return of Angelus, Buffy leaving home. All great moments throughout the season spreead between the ususal comedy and snappy dialogue.
The point where I lose zero understanding for Xander is when he goes for Giles aggressively about Miss Calendar whilst using Miss Calendar's death as the basis for his vicious comments to Buffy and his insistence that the only option and consideration is killing Angel. If he really cared about Jenny's death we'd have seen some indication of it before and he'd care about the man she loved - Giles - instead of going for him, and he'd care what Jenny's last wish was. An instance of Xander at his worst, imo
Xander wanted Angel/Angelus dead because, even though he had Cordelia, he still had feelings for Buffy, and he had a hatred for vampires when he lost his friend Jesse in the two-hour pilot. He's being immature with those aspects, unlike Giles, because he thinks this moment is all about him.
Angel is a vampire. When vampires are killed, they turn to dust.
Angel was stabbed by steel, not wood, and not in the heart.
Therefore, Angel was not killed - just sucked into hell.