Further things I realized while working on the video and after: 1) In the Episode 4 graphic, Doomguy already has zig-zag hair, tying it more into Doom 2. 2) There's recently been a leak of unused Doom graphics, among them some alternate Doomguy sprites (Doomkid made a video on it). It's possible the original intention for Doom 2 was to have a different guy altogether, but they didn't go through with it. 3) I think Doom 2 taking place after Doom 3 makes a lot of sense. Having other humans there would explain how he could be celebrated as a hero, how he got out of Hell, and how he could arrived on Earth. Only problem is that Doomguy is always the sole survivor, which he isn't there. 4) Doom 64 I think is the biggest issue in regards to the timeline, since its existence completely prevents Doom 2's (which is why I excluded it from my timelines). I'd even regard it as non-canon if Doom 2016 and Eternal didn't include it as part of their canon. It's all a big mess. 5) Sorry for the messy addendums in the middle of the video :P I literally thought of them while watching the video back. 6) People have pointed out Doomguy didn't fight on Mars, but on Phobos, which is one of Mars' moons. It's kind of splitting hairs though, since it doesn't affect the story overall. I guess you could theorize one Doomguy fought on Mars, the other on Phobos, and whoever made it out alive at the end had their own adventure (either Doom 2 or 64).
Just wanted to note that your last chapter probably should say "Summa _r_ y" instead of "Summa _n_ y"... :) Also, regarding 5:44 - it says "Hell, not again!" right then and there... :P
@@KernelLeak No, it's called that because there's su many chapters. And the "Hell, not again" thing is up for debate. It might just be a joke, only referring to the demons being from Hell, not Hell itself.
Midway intended Doom 64 to be a sequel to there Playstation special edition of Doom that combined Doom and Doom II levels into one game with Midway exclusive secrets. Midway moved Doom more towards its Horror aspects than the FPS action with Horror images because hell. There spin of ID Tech 1 added colored sector lighting on PSX and that engine was ported to N64 where it gained semi quake like aspects.
@@GermanPeterdoom 64 is Midway's sequel to there PLAYSTATION SPECIAL EDITION OF DOOM a combined campaign of Jaguar doom and Doom 2 levels with enhanced lighting and a new soundtrack. It makes it hard to connect to the PC games since final doom has two viable years episodes for filling it's slot and the Final Doom on PlayStation is a In name only release its really a collection of Master levels and levels from both final doom wads dumped on the PSX doom engine unoptimised
I'm curious if Final Doom even counts as canon, since like Master Levels, they were fan-made expansions made official by id. Though out of the current Classic DOOM expansions, I think Sigil would just about count because of how they were made by John Romero, can't speak for No Rest For The Living or the newly added Legacy of Rust though, perhaps it's a topic for Peter to discuss.
I don't consider anything that wasn't made by id themselves in the early 90s canon. That was my main issue with the "BJ is related to Doomguy"-theory, because it was only "confirmed" by the original devs in like 2020, decades after the games had already come out. You can always say things later, but if it was important, why wasn't it said from the start?
@@GermanPeter As a video game creator who writes the majority of the story of my titles, sometimes you come up with ideas later down the road for the story you are making. Hell, even decades after you created a story, sometimes you (or others apart of that team) want to make changes or additions that add on to the story elements. Sure sometimes it can get very confusing, or just really stupid, but it was meant to be apart of the original story, even if people (like me) didn't orginally put that as canon in the first place, things change alot during a serie's development over the years, like The Legend of Zelda and it's timeline.
@@GermanPeterit's kinda canon because as Hugo said there's many Doomguys but one only became Slayer. Moreso, Doom universe is a multiverse with different dimensions, timelines, and universes like Marvel does. Btw why are you, the guy who completely despises every Doom outside the 2016, are even doing here? Why are you making videos on the series you deem unworthy of existing? Why not make things you actually enjoy?
The Link theory makes sense because Links adventure is basically the same tragic story repeating itself. It is always the same Link but a different reincarnation. As well as all the other characters.
Link, now soon to also have a disappointing live action movie that is a bad idea. I just would have loved to see Rock The Dwayne Johnson (that's his name) play Link, because that's funny.
@@Gordon-Freeman-Gamingman this Doom is Eternal, like a Resurrection of Evil, better not make these my Lost Missions, gotta stay Mighty, for there is No Rest for the Living
The Doom 2 manual basically retells an alternate Doom 1. This version of Doom Guy probably didn't fall into the trap at the end of KDITD, but as a consequence he only pushed back the demons, never venturing into hell to fully thwart the demons plans to invade Earth. The Doom 64 manual seems to take place after a hypothetical 'good' ending to Doom 1. The Doom Guy managed to halt the invasion before the demons could completely takeover Earth. The UAC managed to do damage control in this timeline to suppress the demons. However the probable answer though is that manuals are completely non-canon. Nothing but notes on the back of a napkin because they needed to fill the manual with something.
My mindset with most video game manuals (or any other paratextual material for that matter, like cover art, ads, etc.) is that it's only canonical insofar as it doesn't contradict what we're shown by the games themselves, since the games are the primary text. So the parts about Doomguy's backstory and the details on the UAC are all mostly true, but any time they say something that goes against what we saw and did in the games themselves, then those details can be completely discarded.
DUDE! I love that theory! So Doom 2 happens specifically BECAUSE Doomguy didn't go to hell to defeat the Spider-Mastermind! Though, it arguably leads to a better ending for Doomguy, as he destroys Hell after all and gets to help rebuild it. In 64, he stays in Hell instead and gets PTSD.
Doom 1's ending was a lie, like, a fake earth the demons made to torture Doomguy. When he escapes that place he then returns to earth realizing the demons took over after you killed the Mastermind or maybe already did
Its been said that after DOOM, DOOM II, and DOOM 64, Doomguy was somehow teleported through another universe/dimension entirely, and this universe is another version of Earth with their own UAC, doing the exact same thing, only with the Sentinels and the Khan Maker having a major part in the universe's history along with Hell of course
A theory of mine is that the UAC only exists in that Earth because Doomguy came ot the Sentinels and both the Sentinel priests and Samur became aware and one might've created the UAC, since Earthlings descend from Sentinels in that universe.
I keep saying Doom's setting might as well be appealing if treated as an idea that can be interpretated differently instead of a "universe" with connections and logic that will always have its issues. "Doomguy" is a fanmade term treated officially, for a nameless character Romero wanted us to self insert as. Don't forget that Hell itself changed in the games, like how the canon of cybernetic demons went from Hell origin to UAC origin.
Kind of like the Legend of Zelda, where Hyrule changes constantly between games. Where even though hundreds of years pass between the games, they never leave the Middle Ages.
@@GermanPeterIn a magical world there's little incentive for progress, people never experienced something as devastating as the black plague to force them to innovate and invest in technology that could improve their quality of life Anytime something like that could happen a mysterious goddess would come and save them and expect worshipping for the next 100 years without ever helping them again.
I like to think that Doomguy is, ultimately, a kind man. He has (had) a pet bunny after all. This isn't the profile of an indiscriminate murder machine. He just really, really hates demons. And who wouldn't, honestly?
He hates bullies, injustice, and the harming of innocent life (he assaulted his superior officer for ordering him to fire upon civilians, for example). He's like a metal version of Captain America, I guess. But fighting the forces of Hell, rather than Hydra.
Everything takes place in chronological order, with the exception of any extra episodes added in rereleases (Thy Flesh Consumed, No Rest for the Living, The Lost Levels, etc.) The Doomguy in Doom, Doom 2, Final Doom, Doom 64, Doom 2016, and Doom Eternal are all the same guy, while the Doom 3 marine is a different one. The reason the "story" is a clusterfuck up until Doom 3 was because of the dev team's belief that videogame stories were like prono stories - they were expected to be there, but not very important.
My understanding of the end of Knee Deep In The Dead has never been that Doomguy goes to Hell because he dies, but rather that attempting to take out the Phobos Anomaly gateway transports him to the Deimos Anomaly (in Hell) and the battle to the death that the episode ends with is just a teaser for the full game that is supposed to represent that the fight continues. A possible resolution for the story differences between Doom and Doom II could be that it is indeed two different Doomguys: Doomguy #1 is the one who assaulted a superior officer and was sent to Phobos, travels to Deimos, and stops the invasion from Hell. Doomguy #2 was stationed on Mars proper, which was presumably also invaded, and managed to fight off the hordes there, earning him recognition as a war hero while his counterpart was stuck in Hell. This is the guy we play as in Doom II.
The first bit kind of works with how Doom's port on PS1 & Saturn changes the ending portal of E1M8 to a standard exit. Sure, it only applies to those versions and was likely a change necessitated by how they wanted a continuous flow for that story and likely something to do with tech differences between console and PC. But it still makes sense that'd be how it could transition better between episodes, since as you mentioned, it's original intent with the monster ambush was a teaser than confirmation our guy dies. For me, it's the same guy, and Doom's main canon is Ultimate > Sigil > II > No Rest For The Living > 64 > 2016 > Eternal For me, Final Doom and Master Levels aren't canon, Doom 3 is it's own thing, and I haven't played Legacy of Rust yet to see what story it has before I decide if it applies to my timeline or not, then again, I am counting NRFTL which wasn't directly made by id either if I remember.
The original concept was that episode 2 would be hell and episode 3 saw you cross to Deimos base that was hell-ified, but ID switched the last two episodes at the eleventh hour (indeed, even in the pre-Beta the levels are still structured the original way) In the original concept, the idea was you died and woke up in hell. Fought your way back out of hell, then landed back in reality but it was warped by hell. By switching out the episodes and having episode 2 and 3 in a different order, the ending of episode 1 no longer made sense.
I think it's like. A reverse Marathon Infinity situation, where instead of one person who eventually starts switching between multiple contradictory timelines, it's multiple versions of the same person across multiple timelines who either A. fuse into one being, or B. end up following the same path.
DOOM 3 seems to imply this as well, given that it was confirmed to be a separate continuity but has similar beats. I believe it's also been confirmed in an Eternal codex entry that Hell is the same dimension across the multiverse, which feeds into your theory as well
What if there are two Doom guys in the original games? One guy doesn't have a pet rabbit, gets send to Mars as a punishment, fights the Demons on Phobos and goes to Hell only to emerge back on Earth while it 's already being invaded. The other one has a pet rabbit and gets send to Mars for unrelated reasons, fights of the invasion on Mars proper (I don't think the game ever mentions the Martian moons anywhere) gets called a hero and retires only to come back later when Earth gets invaded and chooses to stay in Hell afterwards. Doom 2016 could be either one because this game establishes that the classic games are another timeline and that Hell being multiversal acts as way to cross dimentions. My Money is on the theoratical Doom Guy 2 because he fits in with the whole "He walked the umbreal planes" part of Slayer lore better.
Oh, yeah, one more thing RE: D64. Doom 64 follows PSX version (ported by same people), where Doom 2 levels follow directly after Thy Flesh Consumed, so no contradiction there.
My personal way of smoothing over the contradictions would be that Doomguy doesn't actually escape he'll at the end episode 3 Inferno. Rather, all of episode 4 Thy Flesh Consumed takes place in a hellish recreation of Earth and afterwards Doomguy ends up back were he started on Mars where he uses a droppod return to Earth for the events of Doom II. Leading into the events if Doom 64, the cover-up mention wasn't to hide the invasion, but rather to hide the UNCs involvement in starting it.
I Really like the idea of having multiple timelines, Something that i allways liked imagining was that the marine from mods like brutal doom and project brutality are their own individuals who passed through their own speciall flavor off hell, for instance. Its just fun to think about
It was said somewhere every mappack for the classic games is semi-canon (By Romero i think? Not sure) it just is it's own version of hell for a different Doomguy.
Now you gave me brain trauma. Since PSX Doom was he first time I ever played Doom in my life, I also considered them canon, and since the Master Levels, TNT Evilution and Plutonia are also in PSX Doom, for me, they were also canon. But one thing that I remember is that the original Doomguy was unnamed so that the player himself could be Doomguy, and not just some specific marine. Under this assumption, all Doomguys are the one and same person, ignoring the spin offs and other Doom media. Now, considering Doom's development, and the Doom Bible, it is possible that we're talking about multiple people, with the different player classes and multiple marines in the cover showing that the could have started the journey as a team, but as the game progressed, each of your comrades would die, or go missing, leaving you the sole survivor at the end of the game... at least on Phobos, since it is where the first Doom takes place. Maybe the other characters might not have die, but simply gone missing or evacuated, considering that the first episode ends with the player character dying and going to hell, but it doesn't mean the others also died there. It might be that Doomguy 1 died and went to hell, only to return to earth via portal (basically escaping Hell and resurrecting in the process), while Doomguy 2 managed to evacuate to earth in a escape pod, and that Doomguy 2 was a war veteran by the time of the first game. And this all while considering it was only on Phobos. So, we have Doomguy 1 (protag of the first Doom) as the sole survivor inside Hell, and Doomguy 2 (protag of Doom 2) being the sole survivor from the initial Phobos invasion. Now, for Doom 3, the events of the classic games could have happened in tandem with it, just on different locations (Doom 1 in Phobos, and Doom 3 in the surface of Mars itself, both eventually going to different parts of Hell). And with the expansion Resurrection of Evil taking place two years after the base game, then it could be that the protagonist of the DLC, who I'll call Doomguy 4, might have been Doomguy 2 returning to clean up the mess, or an entirely different character. As for Doom64, it may be that Doomguy 1, after leaving Hell at the end of "Inferno" or "Thy Flesh Consumed", was sent to clean up the UAC bases that were nuked to cover everything up priror to the Hell on Earth invasion, with the events of Doom64 taking place in tandem with Doom 2, but in the beginning hours of the invasion, where ther was still some hope of covering everything up, with just a few localized hostilies in the beginning hours, also involving the death of Daisy, with the UAC still thinking it could stop the invasion and cover it up, but as the invasion became bigger and bigger, then the events of Doom 2 start after sometime into Doom 64, with Doomguys 1 and 2 fighting on different fronts, almost like the African Theater and Eastern Front of WW2, both happening at the same time, but starting at different moments in different locations. So, we have: - Doomguy 1 dying in "Knee-Deep in the Dead", escaping from Hell in "Inferno" or "Thy Flesh Consumed", then returning to Hell in Doom64 and staying there for an untold amount of time that leads up to Doom 2016 and Doom Eternal; - Doomguy 2 surviving the initial invasion on Phobos and escaping to Earth on an escape pod, arriving just a bit later than Doomguy 1 to the Hell on Earth invasion; - Doomguy 3 fighting in the surface of Mars as Doomguy 1 went to Hell and Doomguy 2 escaped to Earth from Phobos; - Doomguy 4 returning to Mars to fight the Maledic, aka Dr Bertruger, after the Hell invasion has been stopped and Earth was rebuilding itself. Now, if I were to consider the events of Final Doom and Master Levels as cannon, then it would most logically be Doomguy 2 fighting in those places, as at the end of Plutonia, the protagonist thinks of telling his grandchildren to put a Rocket Launcher in his coffin when he dies, as if he was going to hell to finish the job, all while Doomguy 1, at the events of Doom64, would stay there and fight. Since I'm talking about the possibility of PSX Doom being canon to the story, and PSX Doom also has Final Doom and Master Levels in it, it would make some sense, at least for me.
The question "Who is Doomguy" is best answered by this Arnold Schwarzenegger quote: “I’m a stud. I’m ballsy. I don’t take no shit from anyone. I smoke my stogie anywhere I want. I don’t have to find a hiding place like you do.”
I would argue that in Doom 64, what was covered up was the details of Doom Guy's trip to hell - and probably any UAC involvement in general - rather than the attack on Earth itself. Its clunky but workable lol
Yeah, the UAC lied to the public about what happened to the Mars base. They said it was just some big accident/disaster which forced the evacuation and closure of the bases on Mars and its moons. They hid the fact that it was actually a demonic invasion from Hell itself. Speaking of Doom II and the invasion of Earth, it's strange. When you look at the lore of the games, such as Doom 64, it acts like Doom II didn't happen. Like Doom II isn't canon. Same for Final Doom. Reading the story for Doom 64, it seems like only the first Doom game is canon. As we all know though, what is and isn't considered proper canon in the Doom franchise is a big mess at times lol
The UAC of the classic games weren't evilly greedy, just whimsical and incompetent. They wouldn't cover it up for the sake of bad press, mostly also because the Earth's population was reduced to supposedly, a bunch of maybe dozens or thousands of spaceships trapped in the starport.
If We Also Count Playable Characters As "DoomGuy" Then 4 Or 5 1) DoomGuy/Slayer From 1/2/64/2016/Eternal 2) DoomMarine From Doom 3 3) Red-Team Marine From Ressurrection Of Evil 4) Bravo-Team Member From Lost Mission 5) AncientWarrior On The Stone Tablets From Doom 3 With The Soul Cube (Who Might Or Not Be The DoomSlayer)
If I had to guess where Episode 4 "Thy Flesh Consumed" took place, it's definitely hell due to the atmosphere. It's possible that the marine went back through the portal to find another part of hell to ravage, then he goes back to Earth to the Star Base. But that theory does clash with the Doom II manual story. It's possible that while the marine on Phobos went to Deimos, Hell, back to Earth and then repeats the whole nightmare again in Doom 64, the other marine was stationed on Mars and battling in a deleted episode of Doom before going to Earth, then the Hell on Earth, and destroying the Icon of Sin. In Doom 3 it is made clear that the marines for the main game, Resurrection of Evil, and The Lost Mission are three completely separate marines and not one Doom Guy. It's funny how we keep seeing a second marine in the Doom series. I don't think the series were designed to be chronologically accurate or tell a proper story from start to finish, all players care about is killing every monster they can. It would be a mess if you tried to illustrate all those connections on a web diagram. However if you theorise all marines are Doomguys then we're watching the Multiverse.
Maybe the inconsistencies between doom 1, 2 and 64 is because we are viewing the classic games as the doom slayer remembers them. He is eons old so it’s not too far fetched to assume that he might not fully remember every detail about the classic games, which would be relatively early on in his life that that point in time. TLDR: The classic games contradict each other because Doom slayer is just remembering them incorrextly
You are just retconning the Doom's story to absolue maximum with this theory... you know if you retcon something you can make up literally anything you want right? Maybe doom 1, doom 2, doom 3 and doom 64 were just combat simulations of hell's invasion produced by UAC!
"It's all a bad memory" is such a cop-out though. I mean, that's one step removed from "It was all a dream". Why even care about anything then if it's just made-up nonsense? Might as well not even have happened.
I feel like a lot of classic fps game protagonists are the same ass kicking badasses and later on they started integrating catchphrases for the characters like duke nukem and serious sam
Also, in the title screen, you can see a red monochrome demon biting something or someone, which couldn't easily be seen of what it is, but it could be another marine like the Doom Slayer. Maybe the marine you play as, in Doom, goes back to Hell after witnessing the demons conquering a city on Earth, which is where episode 4 takes place so that future demonic invasions are prevented, it's like turning on the faucet, making a big mess in the house, the most obvious solution would be to turn off the faucet before it makes a bigger mess than it should, then start mopping the floors clean. Final Doom is canon in my book because the Master Levels of Doom 2 are not made by ID Software map designers, but by fans, including Tim Willitz(who later on worked for ID Software), Dr. Sleep, Cranium, etc, and ID Software declared it as official. There are also different Doom Guys like Dr. Sleep's Inferno series and Cranium's Cabal series where you used to be a demon king that morphed into a human, but that's a different can of worms. Final Doom's campaigns, TNT Evilution and the Plutonia Experiment, are made by Team TNT and the Casali Brothers, respectively, which were both sold to and published by ID Software. Maybe, Doom 64 is meant to be a sequel to Final Doom because according to the plot of TNT Evilution and the Plutonia Experiment takes place in the Jupiterian moon of Io. After that, the marine goes to Hell and kills the Icon of Sin. Also, maybe the leftover demons who survived the events of those games, were transported to Mars in order to be killed with radiation, and because UAC didn't want to alarm people about the events of TNT Evilution and the Plutonia Experiment, they just hid it under the rug, and since Earth doesn't know about the player saving the world again, no one recognized him as the hero anymore. Also, it does make sense about the Doom Slayer being the same person from the old Doom games because of the existence of the retro suit and the cameos of Daisy, Slayer's pet rabbit. If I'm not mistaken, the reason why Daisy appears in specific spots throughout the levels is because the Doom Slayer was thinking so much about Daisy that he starts to hallucinate about her, which also drives him to kill demons.
Doomguy is John Romero. He is the one posing for the photograph and drawn into the cover art (of the original Doom). The male model they originally hired is standing next to him and grabbing his arm, becoming the demon on the cover art.
Hello GermanPeter! im the soldier 76 u once met in a tf2 match. As a avid classic doom fan, im happy to see you also are interested in classic doom. Classic doom has so much possibilities for fun, creative and tense engagements.
My theory, there are two doomguys who fought at Phobos base, one of them died at Phobos at the end of episode one and went through the rest of Doom 1, the other was brought home and hailed as a hero for helping to stop the invasion, Doom 64 and Doom 2 are the stories of two separate doomguys, one who only had a small taste of what hell was capable of until Doom 2, the other who was permanently mentally changed from his experience in hell so the UAC hid him away until they found a use for him
my headcannon based on what ive seen: doom with og doom marine/doom II with another doom marine -> doom 64/doom 3 -> resurrection of evil leading to the end of doom marine 2's story -> doom 2016 -> doom eternal -> doom the dark ages
The New Doom games establish that the multiverse is a thing, the Earth in 2016 and Eternal is not the same Earth from the classic games, with Doom 3 also in its own universe. They explicitly state that The Icon of Sin has been RESURRECTED prior to fighting him, he died in Doom 2, we see his corpse in Doom 2016, and he's revived in Doom Eternal.
I know the Icon of Sin was resurrected, but if it got killed, by whom? I also don't know why you'd introduce the concept of multiverses to your game. At that point, why not just create your own canon? Why try to connect it to the other games in such a loose manner? The problem with multiverses is that anything goes, so why should you really care about this "Doomguy", because there's another, identical one around the corner.
@@GermanPeter The Doomguy we follow from the classics to the new games is unique, he's the one to choose to stay in hell and ultimately become the Doom Slayer. The concept of hell in the new games centers around the fact that it invades and consumes other realities. The id multiverse also wasn't created by Doom 2016, it started back in Quake 1 with the interdimensional invaders that are Shub-Niggurath and her children, they're eldritch entities that invade other realities. It then came in full force with Quake 3, and was then fully reintroduced with Quake Champions. Wolfenstein Youngblood also further reinforces the existence of the id multiverse. It's not that there's an infinite amount of copies of every character, there's an infinite variety of iterations and dimensions to explore, all 5 or 6 of the Earths we've seen throughout id's history have been unique in their own right, people and events playing out differently than their counterparts.
@@GermanPeter it's the same reason people still care and get invested with comic book characters despite there being a bajillion variations of them throughout their multiverses, the ones we follow are the ones we care about, it doesn't matter if there's other copies of them out there. Marvel even had 2 whole ass versions of their universe running at the same time back when the 616 and Ultimate lines were both running.
I always pictured the Doomguy is supposed to be no other than you. I've always felt that playing Doom 1 and Doom 2. You are that poor bastard that got selected to investigate a remote Phobos base because of circumstances beyond your control because you tried to do the right thing. I like this idea because it makes the classic Doom games a little more personalized with your playthroughs. Saying that you died and got brought back to life in Episode 2 feels like more of an impact than Doomslayer being chosen being this unstoppable force to defeat hell.
I always kind of thought of Doom 64 as a sort of "alternate sequel" to the first game in the same way that Sonic CD & Sonic 2 were both equally valid attempts at a follow up to the first game.
Yeah, I can absolutely see that. Kind of the bad ending to Doom 1. Doom 2 might end with Hell on Earth, but you destroy Hell too. In 64, you choose to stay there instead and go insane.
A few things in case someone hasn't mentioned them here in the comments: 1) One way to interpret who Doomguy is - I read it somewhere written by the developers themselves: The doomguy is supposed to be... *YOU* (the player). 2) If you look closer at the Doom 1 title screen, you'll see there are 3 marines. On the right-hand side, there's a marine being destroyed by a pinky demon. 3) I'm fairly certain this isn't canon, but in the book the Doomguy was named Flynn Taggart.
I’m not sure if it’s 100% confirmed but essentially yes canon doom has multiple timelines, with the main timeline of doom1-2-64 ending with Doomguy in hell where he eventually goes on to do the Bethesda doom stuff because hell is outside of time so has access to many universes
Episode 4 is definitely on earth, considering the sky texture being the same exact orange sky seen in Episode 3's ending and E4M9 being an earthy UAC base. I like to think it's Doomguy roaming the countryside trying to reach the City / Starport. Also, I really appreciate you making these deep dive videos into dooms story and inconsistencies. I may not agree with a lot of your takes but I'm glad these exist because I thought I was the only one who cared about it lol. Also, another thing to mention is in the classic Doom games, you NEVER step foot on Mars in gameplay. Doom 1 takes place on Phobos (Episode 1) and Deimos (Episode 2), Doomguy was only on mars for a short time before being transported to Phobos where all of his comrades die on the radio. And in Doom 64 it seems heavily implied the base they "Radiated" were the ones on Phobos, not Mars. You didn't include Final Doom, but if you did it gets even weirder cause the main character of TNT: Evilution is just referred to as "Marine Commander" in the manual with no relation to the OG Doomguy. But in the story texts he mentions the "familiar smell of hell" so it's a bit messy lol. Plutonia could just be the same guy because he just seems to be on vacation in that one before being called to the jungle base.
1) I figured Episode 4 was on Earth too because of the sky, but it's not like "orange clouds" is really something that can ONLY be on Earth. And the levels genuinely do NOT resemble Earth structures in the slightest, not even if you suspend your disbelief. There's so much green marble that is only ever used in Hell. 2) I know it's not on Mars, it's just easier to say than "Phobos" constantly. 3) I don't care about Final Doom because it was made by a bunch of different guys that didn't have anything to do with the original dev team. I consider them about as canon as every custom WAD, meaning not at all. Same goes for Sigil. Sorry, making a new episode 20 years after the fact doesn't suddenly make it canon to me.
@@GermanPeter For Episode 4, I always assumed the levels were demon-made outposts and strongholds, which explains why some of them look like they aren't on earth. perhaps they are located in a rockier region. Doom 2 text screens mention demons twisting stuff on earth to match their own reality, hell. "BUT SOMETHING IS WRONG. THE MONSTERS HAVE BROUGHT THEIR OWN REALITY WITH THEM, AND THE STARPORT'S TECHNOLOGY IS BEING SUBVERTED BY THEIR PRESENCE." and from then on, the levels have a lot more hell-esque designs with lava and marble rooms littering the place. So, I just imagine the demons used their magic to twist human outposts completely into hells image. It's very vague how long the demons were on earth for before Doomguy showed back up. (If you are going off of Doom2guy being the same guy and not different person in the manual.) So, I think its plausible. Also, if you haven't you should check out this high-quality fan-made intermission map for Episode 4. I think it captures where Episode 4 could take place at. At least if you go by the "demonic outposts on earth" idea. www.doomworld.com/forum/topic/146204-%E2%9B%A7-thy-flesh-consumed-intermission-map-screen-v10-%E2%9B%A7-an-add-on-for-ultimate-doom/
True, that could work, but it'd be a BIG stretch. Even the most "subverted" parts of Earth in Doom 2 aren't nearly as hellish as those levels are. Like I said, that's straight-up green marble, something only ever used for Hell in Doom 1. Even in Doom 2, it's used very sparingly. Also, if it IS on Hell, then it's kinda weird he'd go from the most important outposts of Hell to a random space base before eventually making his way back to the same type of outposts. Like attacking a castle before heading into the nearby village and then back to the castle.
DoomGuy is a man. A man with a bunny. A poor lil bun bun. Possibly a bunny related to the ones in Shadow Warrior, who Lo Wang saw being conceived. We can only hope and dream.
I think the best portrayal of the original Doom guy was in the US/Canadian commercial for the SNES game. He's the last one left alive, and he's losing his grip on his sanity.
Personally, I wouldn't split hairs with timelines and ignore the manuals. To me, Doom, Doom II, and Doom 64 take place one after another. Doom Guy goes through the events of the game and sees earth under attack and immediately goes in to save his home, starting Doom II. He kills the icon of sin and then becomes a wor hero but is left with PTSD leading into Doom 64. The events of 64 and the lost levels happen leading into the reboot. I think this makes it easier to connect all 3 games. All games from those days often contradict one another, so I think that just discarding them and taking key plots points make more sense rather than taking them at face value and treating them as 100% cannon.
I already said in another comment that you can't just ignore the manuals, because that's where most of the story comes from. And even then, it makes little sense for the UAC to be so coy by only sending a single guy to clear up their bases in 64 when Earth was JUST invaded.
@GermanPeter It's true that most of the story is in the manual, but from my perspective and experience, manuals from that time period are often ineffective and filled with errors or just wrong information. But I am not saying to do a book burning, I just think that it's best to take key plot poits like Why doom guy is on mars, the PTSD and the war hero stuff, discard whats not needed or contradicts stuff and then shift them around to make the story make sense. I think the war hero stuff can still be true but be put at the end of doom II rather at the beginning. The PTSD can still be a facter, but due to both Doom and Doom II, rather than just one of the games. And in regard to only sending Doom guy alone in 64 making little sense, I think it makes perfect sense. This one man survived two demon invasions and killed what could be presumed as the devil. So to lower casualties, they send him alone thinking he would do the job and clean up their mess, which he did. I think in this case it's a difference in opinion. I personally don't trust manuals and would rather let the game speak for itself, and I think doom does it well and can tell a story without even touching the manual, but if we were to include information from the manual, then just taking key stuff like why he is there and more interesting tidbits is the best rute and ignore the rest.
I'm fairly sure the classified thing they were talking about in 64's manual was just the Mars Base incident. It doesn't mean Doom 2 didn't happen. Anything more nitty gritty than that in the classic games barely matters. This still keeps a through-line between Doom 1 2 and 64, and follows up nicely into 2016 and Eternal. Also if you're wondering where the Icon in Eternal came from, it's implied to be a resurrected form of the Icon after the one in Doom 2 was killed. The Icon in Eternal was given form again when a member of the Night Sentinels betrayed his people in exchange for the resurrection of his son. This was done, but his son's soul was used instead to give form to the Icon of Sin again.
Time moves differently in hell, which in turn creates different timelines. In DOOM 1, doomguy supposedly died on Deimos (E1M8) physically, but yet was transferred to hell with his own body (piece of Phobos floating above hell). He was already in hell by that point, which ultimately created different timelines where the same doomguy (but "le different") went through similar story leading up to hell on earth. DOOM Eternal puts a strong emphasis on that by claiming that each slayer outfit is canon.
I interpreted it as small retcons along the way to allow the next to happen, besides 3, which probably takes place some other timeline (possibly 2016's, but that theory's a hit shaky at the moment)
Zig zag hair theory: Doomguy got so stressed after the events of Ultimate DOOM that his hairline started receding at a rapid rate. Doom Slayer is balding at unprecedented speeds
Mentioned them in the other video, and it's better I didn't count them, since they just do their own thing. Doom 2 RPG isn't even really connected to Doom RPG. And I would hardly consider a mobile spinoff that maybe 10 people played "canon". What about that on-rails Doom 3 for mobile? Is that canon? No, I only focus on games that people would go out of their way to buy if they wanted a new entry in the Doom series. If you wanted a new Super Mario game, you wouldn't go out and buy Mario Kart.
The Doom novels provide a lot of interesting, though not canon, backstory. It would actually be quite interesting to see someone do a video comparing what's in the novel to the game, because at least the first novel actually follows the game pretty closely, all the areas described are clearly recognizable places from Doom's first three episodes, etc
My head canon was always that doom 64 is the ‘retconed’ game - but instead of saying it never happened, I like to think that it happens within doom guy’s psyche, a nightmare basically, as PTSD from his experiences in doom 1 and 2, supported slightly by the more gloomy tone of the n64 game, the nightmare being that he is locked in a hell purgatory. Then connects to doom 2016. Specifically in doom 2016, I like to imagine the 32 bit classic rooms are either those same areas from the OG doom transported to hell or are once again hallucinations due to his PTSD from classic doom, supported by their art style which to us is just a neat throwback. Instead of assuming everything is a retcon, it makes for better storytelling if there is some logical if not slightly outlandish idea that makes some sense.
I think Doom 3 goes at the end of the timeline, main doomguy is asleep still after AG p2, and john kane is an entirely new marine who is the main character of Doom 3 I think when the forces of Quake and Shub (they are elder beings above) start to creep in and reawaken the isolated realm of Hell after the death of the dark lord and start to twist its demons (hence the new spookier designs of the demons, some of them looking somewhat quakeish) so I think Doom 3 is borderline between Doom and Quake parts of the IDverse Wolf3D, Keen, and Classic Doom is Universe A then Doomguy spends time in hell fighting demons, events of dark ages happens and then he awakes in Universe B (2016-Eternal) Universe C is Doom 3 and expansions Universe D is the base areas before you through the Dimensional Slipgates to other dimensions in Quake and maybe this universe's earth gets attacked by the Strogg after events of Quake 1 which would lead in Quake 2 and 4
Quake is an odd case where I think it does exist in the same 'multiverse' as Doom, with the Ranger and Strogg timelines being different universes within the id cosmos. Quake 4 implies in the Hannibal rec room that it takes place in 2245 (which matches with how the human tech is more advanced than Doom 3's), though Enemy Territory then messed that up by implying that the Strogg invaded in the 21st century.
I get past this issue with their being canonically two doomguys. Flynn Taggart from Doom that fought on Phobos, Deimos, and the marine from Doom 3 who fought during the same incident but on Mars. In Doom 3's timeline Earth is fine for at least 2 years after until Resurrection of Evil which would give time for Doom64 to occur, which means Doom64 marine and thus Doom slayer is actually Doom3 marine.
Doomslayer is not the guy from Doom 3,Doom 3 isn’t canon. the Bethesda game timeline is Doom,Doom II,Doom 64,Dark Ages(not out yet),Doom 2016,Doom Eternal
in my opinion the timeline goes: Doom 1, Doom 2, Doom 2016, Doom Eternal. Im not sure when Dark Ages is gonna happen, probably wayyyyyyyyy before Doom 1's events
Honestly, the best thing to do here is to connect everything into one (more or less) cause it'll make the most sense and overall be the most satisfying. It'll result in some retconning, but you'll only retcon the less interesting parts overall, in my opinion. 1. Doomguy goes through Phobos, Deimos and Hell itself, then EP 4 happens and its either somewhere between Hell and Earth or on hellish bases on Earth, he fights through and finally gets back home proper. Hell invades. 2. Still the same Doomguy, no drop pods no nothing, the story begins where it left off. Doomguy's home, but so are demons. In a twist of irony (or spite) they continute to pour out of a portal located in Doomguy's town, he goes there and stops the invasion. Here, you could put Final DOOM, if you want. Just some more UAC-assisted cleanup of Hellish forces by Doomguy. 3. Earth is still rebuilding, Doomguy is severely traumatized and UAC, in an effort to prevent any further invasions (and to hide the last bits of evidence of their involvement with the teleportation tech, guess nobody knows its specifically UAC that let it all happen) bombards the Phobos bases, but a singular demon manages to jump start another invasion. Doomguy, now delirious, yet with his heart in the right place, goes to stop yet another invasion, details unnecessary, in his delusions he's more focused than ever before. By the end, he understands that if no one is going to perma-stop Hell, it'll just continue to invade. And thus, he remains. Here, I imagine that the idea of "all WADS are canon" is only partially true. Not EVERY WAD may be canon (impse lol). You can look at it as Doomguy traveling around dimensions for eons, stopping any and all invasions in an endless battle. Until he ends up in the realm with Argent D'Nur, and the modern games take place on an alternate Earth, once they excavate Doomguy's sarcophagus. The way I look at DOOM 3's protag and story as a whole, thanks to the fact that dimension-hopping is fully canon, is just a in different dimension all-together. But, given that Hell is one place, it tried to invade another Earth, but failed again.
I don’t know if you will see this but based on the logs in 2016 and eternal after doom 2 the doom guy started dimension hopping with hell and slip gates to kill demons making the timeline Doom - Doom 2 - dimension hop - Doom 64 - dimension hop through hell - 2016 and eternal. Eternals logs are pretty much saying there’s a Doom multiverse and based on what they say people theorize all of the multiverses connect to one hell or something similar.
I think the main reason the timeline doesn’t make sense is because you’re looking at the manuals and some external media, which are likely non canon. It make a lot more sense if doom 2 directly follows up doom 1, then doom 64 happens after doom 2, where at the end, doom guy decides stays in hell, which is followed up by doom 2016 and doom eternal, and the time in between doom 64 and doom 2016 is explained in doom eternal through some of the cutscenes and codex, and doom 3 is not canon. That’s what I think makes the most sense and what most people agree on.
You HAVE to look at the manuals, because that's where 99% of the story in older games was told. As long as the manual doesn't contradict what is actually shown in game (which it doesn't here), I see no reason to disregard them. And Doom 64 following Doom 2 makes no sense even if you ignore the manual. Why irradiate the Martian bases? Earth was JUST invaded by Hell. I think they have bigger things to worry about.
@@GermanPeter the manuals for 99% of those older games were written as afterthoughts by interns using plot footnotes, rarely did the actual devs write them. A majority of the problem with Doom 2 are fixed simply by ignoring its manual, with that Doom 1 seamlessly flows into Doom 2. Especially in the 90s, the quality control on manual plot descriptions was lackluster, Western manuals especially had a ton of straight up made up shit that the devs did not come up with.
@@GermanPeter should be noted that by "Western" I mean the US and Canada, British English manuals had some weird "huh???" stuff in them too sometimes, but basically every other country actually TRIED with their manuals. IE, the game manuals in your native Germany ARE as trustworthy a source as you consider manuals to be, but outside Europe and Asia, manuals for old games have a notorious reputation for being wildly inaccurate, even ones for American made games. This stopped being a problem with the turn of the century, but game manuals started being phased out afterward anyways unfortunately.
What do you mean you're not the only survivor at the end of Doom3? Yes you are, the voice over even flipping SAYS it. The guys with you at the end came with the rescue ship.
I always imagined id software staff made Doomguy's look from Jean Claude Van Dam, if you look at him while he's first showing blood, he looks like JVD.
my way of thinking was doomguy had a family with a pet rabbit his family died but the pet rabbit didn't he got punished and sent to mars for bad behavior he survived the punishment somehow and came back to earth only to find out a disaster happened with his pet rabbit dead he found his way directly to hell after dying in an ambush in hopes of seeking revenge and officially became THE DOOMSLAYER with his victory on his second attempt then it leads to the events of 2016-eternal
2:55 to debunk this The doom marine in the cover art is actually indeed our Doom Guy In doom eternal, when you obtain the classic armour, it can be noticed that there is a huge scar on doom guys arm, exactly where the Barren of hell in the cover art grabs onto doom guys arm. The cover art is probably from before Doom guy became the sole survivor, he most likely got separated hence what lead to the story of the first episode
He got separated because everyone else went into the Phobos base first, leaving him behind with merely a pistol. The second he enters the base, E1M1 begins. The title screen can't reflect that whatsoever. Especially because Barons only show up at the very end of the episode, and the area clearly depicts hell. Also, I don't care about what Doom Eternal does, because it already builds on the assumption that every single classic Doom game is somehow part of the same timeline, which is impossible.
@ thanks for the comment! I actually read through the game manual’s story myself before I watched this video and it did make sense as to why our space marine was only armed with a mere handgun I don’t know if you noticed but, most of the former humans are wearing armour different from what our space marine is wearing. With the only remnants of the unfortunate marines entering Phobos being still corpses So these former humans may as well been ravaged or even complete loss of sanity marines who are stripped off whatever resources they came to Phobos with. The manuals story did say something about returning marines being complete loss of sanity and even “full body exploding” Let me know your thoughts and opinions on that!
Doom 3 guy is totally different because he's on Mars, while Doom 1 guy starts on Phobos, one of 2 moons of Mars, gets almost dead but teleported to Deimos, second moon, and defeating the Cyberdemon uses some power of Tower of Babel to jump to hell dimension (or hell border, not really clear if it's part of Mars or some sort of space portal) and defeats Spiderdemon there, it's from reading intermission screens. Episode 4 Doomguy has similar haircut to Doom 2 guy from cover picture Doom 64 isn't specifying which planet or moon we travel, could be corrupted dimension same or similar to Doom 1 episodes 3 and 4 Doom 2016 guy seems like a normal human, not a mummy in magic sleep, perhaps just an unfortunate dude who was about to be sacrificed by crazed sect during blood ritual but catches his wits and escapes at last moment and puts on the experimental suit to survive
My head cannon of the classic games (ignoring some of the text because a lot of it is clearly retconed or the devs weren’t thinking ahead while writing): -Doom 1 Episodes 1-3 -Doomguy arrives on earth, sees his dead rabbit and what remains of his house. It’s rip and tearin’ time. -Surviving humans try to escape via earths only star port. However while they were boarding the spaceships, demons invaded the star port and put up a force field to prevent the survivors from leaving (no I didn’t come up with the force field thing, I know it’s stated somewhere) -Doom guy arrives to kill those little shits, but there’s one thing stopping him from going in guns blazing. What’s that you ask? Why it’s the giant fucking force field surrounding the star port I mentioned 2 seconds ago of course! Doom guy wonders how he’s gonna get inside, but then he realizes he can just use one of the 800 portals the demons built around the city to enter hell again and use it as a backdoor to the inside of the star port. -Doom 1 Episode 4 -Demons try to stop Doomguy but he kicks their asses -Wait, another Mastermind? How could that be? Wouldn’t that mean that it was never in charge to begin with if there’s more literally identical to this one? Yeah, seems legit. -Doom 2 -Doom guy develops some kind of hell ptsd, and has nightmares of demons every night -Insert Doom 64 Monologue -Doom 64 -Roll Credits
I'd like to think that the ep 4 was doomguy saving earth, before finishing his service for doom 2, where afterwards the doctors and such question and test his abilities (He survived 2 waves of demons alone after all) while covering up that it was their fault, then doom 64 continues as normal to doom 2016 and eternal
The actual lore question that everyone is asking and that you dodged in the video is: Is the Icon of Sin in Doom Eternal the same one as in Doom 2 and if yes is John Romero's head still there?
This is the order of the timeline that always made sense to me. Doom 1: Initial attack on the moons and first contact with Hell. Doomguy goes to Earth for a brief period seeing it overun. They Flesh-Doomguy goes back into Hell to avenge his pet rabbit daisy. So it's just one big vengeance mission. Sigil?-Its unofficial but I consider it episode five to Doom right before Doom 2. Doom 2-Doomguy finally makes it back to Earth to finish the job. Going from the starport, releasing the barrier that lets humanity leave to space, heads to his hometown, goes back into Hell and kills the Icon. No Rest?-Again another kinda unofficial chapter but feels to me like Doomguy doing some final cleanup on Earth after the Icons demise. Final Doom-Eehh these ones are weird. Two whole new invasions happening one after the other I guess just a sign that the UAC never learns. And Doomguys always around to clean up the mess. Doom64-Proper Mars demon invasion. Doomguy full of PTSD and messed up by this point. Motherdemon killed and he decided to stay in Hell. Doom3-Retelling of Doom1 so doesn't belong in the timeline. Doom2016-Doomguy just keeps on massacreing demons until he gets so good at it he gets noticed by gods. Whole Argent D'nur and Seraphim stuff yada yada Doomguy becomes Doomslayer. Goes to an alternate dimension where the first ever demon attack on Mars is happening. Alternate universe Spidermastermind dead. Doom Eternal-Deja Vu. Earth invasion. Khan Maykr and alternate universe Icon dead. TAG- Seraphim beaten to a pulp, Dark Lord taught never to mess with a Texan badass with a gun. Doomguy sealed away just like he was in Hell before 2016. Annnnnd the books and comic don't count. Thank you tristate area.
Both Final Doom wads TNT and Plutonia are ALTERNATE Sequels to Doom 2. They are both right after Doom 2 but differ in that in both timelines different things happen to the UAC after Doom 2. In TNT's story, the UAC barely survived the invasion of earth but decide to continue teleportation experiments on one of the moons of Jupiter. In Plutonia the UAC is completely destroyed in the invasion of earth and re-founded under entirely new leadership, and they decide to find a way to prevent more invasions from happening deep in some remote jungle bases. TNT and Plutonia are not related story wise in any way. So pretty much after Doom 2 you have your "pick-your-own-timeline!" Where you can go down the canon path of Doom 2 > Doom 64, OR choose the Final Doom route of Doom 2 > TNT and Doom 2 > Plutonia.
Considering the somewhat soft continuity of Doom, it's entirely probable that Doomguy is Bomberman from the end of Bomberman Act Zero rising to the surface to become human.
Personally the way i see it is that D1-D2-D64 then connecting with 2016-Eternal is sort of the main timeline where Doomguy goes pretty much from D1 to D2 and at the end of D2 the hell mother and her host whisk Doomguy away through portal shenanigans back in time or to an alternate dimension in order to prevent the fall of the Icon and their demise, since D64 doomguy suffers from PTSD it could be a result of having his efforts undone and being driven back almost as if what he's doing is futile, to further the madness the hell mother revives the forces of hell fallen on mars stronger than before as if preparing a vanguard for a new assault on earth, as the story goes Doomguy kills the hell mother and is left wandering the warped angles and landscapes of Hell, fighting consumed by despair, rage and madness only to eventually wander into the world of the sentinels perhaps by dimension hopping without knowledge of where he would end upon, only wishing to satiate his bloodthirst against demons, eventually leading to the events of 2016-eternal and to the revelation that DoomGuy is the creation of Darvoth/VEGA(Father), The Slayer as he is known now was probably cast away across dimensions as a sort of preventative contingency against the dark lord or a consequence of the Maykyrs taking over. if memory doesn't fail me ( although i may be misremembering or misattributing ) Carmack once said that "all wads are Cannon" in their own way, so Doom lore is up to the players ultimately. Excellent video btw, it was an entertaining watch!
me personally, i just consider the doom 3 version of Doomguy as a separate person all together. to me Doomguy is the one who was in Doom, Doom 2, Doom 64, Doom 2016 and Doom Eternal.
Doom 2 is a direct continuation of Doom 1 through visual story telling in level design, you see the end screen of Doom 1 in episode 3 or 4 and the skybox is the same for the first level of 2. If you consider the story of 2 it has the most retcons, I'd like to believe due to censorship such as calling the demons aliens and such making it much more convoluted. There's no reason the story of 1-2-64 don't connect when from a gameplay perspective you're pretty much the same marine, in the end of 2 the marine tries to remain optimistic and focus on rebuilding humanity but obviously come 64 he's deeply traumatized by his war with hell, and thus continues his fight against whatever remains to avenge his family and Daisy resulting in him deciding to truly stick to his guns and wage war against hell until his end. Doom 2016 and Eternal whether you like it or not are continuations of this story where at the end of the NightDive 64 port, he gets sent to a parallel universe/dimension (2016 universe) in which the events of the first 2 games play out differently as Doomguy is working for the gods now and the Doomguy from this parallel universe is (spoiler alert) basically Satan.There's no reason to make this story more convoluted than it already is by introducing the concept of multiple marines that the story follows when it pretty clearly follows one dude, the player, the Doom marine on his one track mind of stopping hell at all costs.
As far as the modern canon goes, it’s probably best to take the manuals with a grain of salt, changing aspects of their backstories as needed to keep continuity.
I'd rather take the modern canon with a grain of salt. You're telling me they had decades to create a coherent story, and there's STILL contradictions?
i like to headcanon that final doom is canon my original headcanon was that doom 2 lead into final doom then 64 but since watching this video my headcanon is that the doom 2 guy goes into tnt then plutonia while OG doom guy goes into 64 and becomes the slayer
The ultimate superhero who saves the world from eternal damnation multiple times through benevolent wrath, wielding several guns of different powers and even has a guardian angel beside him. CRITICISM BELOW CONTAINS MORE SPOILERS FOR MODERN DOOM GAMES: Also please, I don’t know if you have, but I noticed that you have a lack of regard towards the Codex entries for Doom (2016) and Eternal. They give clarification on Doomguy/Slayer’s past and explain why things seem what they seem to be. In Titan’s Realm in Doom (2016) there are testament panels with the mark of the slayer. More info is given there. A part 2 is definitely needed within June 2025, once people have become situated with Doom: The Dark Ages. (Doom: The Dark Ages takes place after Doom 64, might I add. There is a mistake within one of the Eternal flashbacks, as one of the Hell Priests show his classic helmet and not 64’s which is strange, but that may be because of Hugo directly showing that Doomguy from the classic games and 2016/Eternal’s Doom Slayer is the same person.) Also again, I recommend giving most, if not all Codex entries you’ve picked up in Doom (2016) and Eternal a deep dive.
I'm not reading the codex entries unless there is MASSIVE demand for it. I don't like Doom 2016's and Eternal's story, it barely has anything to do with Doom anymore and just bores me. It's not a bad story, just not what I personally care about.
@@GermanPeter I understand not being much of a story person, that’s fine. But if you made this video, then why were the codex and Slayer testaments left out? They give insights to not only about the environments and monsters, but also Doom Slayer as well.
Because it's entirely too much work, and ultimately it's not a video about who the Doom Slayer is, but who Doom GUY is. I can always follow up on it, but I didn't want to waste my time reading all the entries, only to learn maybe 1-2 new details that don't really affect anything. The important parts of the Slayer are told in the game itself without the player needing to read further into anything anyway.
2016 and Eternal's base game story I thought were pretty good, but when The Ancient Gods Part 1 gave Hell an origin and made it not THE Christian Hell I started to care way less, and by the time The Ancient Gods Part 2 rolled around I just checked out of the story entirely. It just became Warhammer 40k but way stupider.
Didn’t Hugo Martin confirm that all titles are canon in a sort of multiverse? Seems to me like id are doing the same expanded universe thing as every franchise nowadays.
The missing piece is Quake 3. It actually does have a story. Some alien guys at the start of history have kidnapped the greatest warriors in history and are making them fight for some reason. Among the warriors are two guys wearing the typical uniform of Doom Guy: Phobos and Doom. And actually it makes the story more confusing. Here is Phobos' biography from the manual: "An experienced veteran, he led the invasion of the demon-haunted tunnels of Phobos. There, he was betrayed by superiors who thought they could learn more from watching him die than by studying his reports." He's the guy from Doom Episode 1, and was spirited away upon death to the Arena Eternal. The other guy who wears a suit similar to Doom Guy is named Doom. So here’s my overly convoluted timeline: Phobos fights through Phobos base and is eventually killed. A different marine also on the base ends up in Hell and fights his way through back to Earth, which is now full of demons. They are both at some point whisked away to the Arena Eternal, becoming Phobos and Doom. That’s at the start of the timeline, so there’s another cycle of history. Again the UAC opens a gate to Hell on Phobos and a lone marine fights his way through similar but not canonical events to original Doom, but with an ending that lines up with Doom 2. Then Doom 2 happens. It’s unclear exactly where Doom 64 falls in this, and the guy from that could be Doom, the guy from Doom 2, it could be a different similar person who fought off a Hell invasion in another cycle of history. Whoever that is, the protagonist of Doom 64 clearly goes on to be the Doom Slayer in yet another cycle of history. The crux of all this is there are many Doom Guys. They are ALL the Doom Guy, but not all Doom Guys are Phobos, or Doom or the Doom Slayer. Because every time you boot up Doom or Doom 2 or Doom 64 or Doom 3 or Doom (2016) or Doom Eternal or Final Doom or any of the weird spinoff games YOU are the Doom Guy. You are the person behind the visor. You are the one shouting, “Rip and tear, rip and tear your guts, you’re huge so you have huge guts,” and that’s beautiful.
3:45 I'm sure you've been told this hair splitting fact already, but there are indeed two marines, behind Doomguy. Not one. The one on the left is the one you mentioned, but there is one on the right, being gibbed by the Pinky Demon.
In my head I never thought of the idea of identifying myself as the space marine even when I played Doom95 as a kid, I knew damn well the guy had his own character arc as soon as I saw his dead rabbit and him picking it up at the end of Thy Flesh Consumed, he seeks a motivation to kill demons and save Earth from the invasion, that's Doomguy for me. As for Doom 3 and Resurrection of Evil, it feels more like it's own separate universe where you're in the skin of completely random survivors that happen to share the same fate as Doomguy in the original 1993 game, the whole theme of these games is more in the line of a survival horror than an FPS with slight nods to an Action RPG system. 5:14 Correction: There is a presence of one Cyberdemon in MAP13: Downtown, however this is only tied to multiplayer settings on co-op play which may be the inspiration for the cover art and title screen (it still bothers me that the title screen isn't adjusted to match the original artwork, the Cyberdemon's metallic attachments are swapped and I hardly ever see people complaining about this).
Further things I realized while working on the video and after:
1) In the Episode 4 graphic, Doomguy already has zig-zag hair, tying it more into Doom 2.
2) There's recently been a leak of unused Doom graphics, among them some alternate Doomguy sprites (Doomkid made a video on it). It's possible the original intention for Doom 2 was to have a different guy altogether, but they didn't go through with it.
3) I think Doom 2 taking place after Doom 3 makes a lot of sense. Having other humans there would explain how he could be celebrated as a hero, how he got out of Hell, and how he could arrived on Earth. Only problem is that Doomguy is always the sole survivor, which he isn't there.
4) Doom 64 I think is the biggest issue in regards to the timeline, since its existence completely prevents Doom 2's (which is why I excluded it from my timelines). I'd even regard it as non-canon if Doom 2016 and Eternal didn't include it as part of their canon. It's all a big mess.
5) Sorry for the messy addendums in the middle of the video :P I literally thought of them while watching the video back.
6) People have pointed out Doomguy didn't fight on Mars, but on Phobos, which is one of Mars' moons. It's kind of splitting hairs though, since it doesn't affect the story overall. I guess you could theorize one Doomguy fought on Mars, the other on Phobos, and whoever made it out alive at the end had their own adventure (either Doom 2 or 64).
Just wanted to note that your last chapter probably should say "Summa _r_ y" instead of "Summa _n_ y"... :)
Also, regarding 5:44 - it says "Hell, not again!" right then and there... :P
Imagine being in a relationship with doom guy
@@KernelLeak No, it's called that because there's su many chapters. And the "Hell, not again" thing is up for debate. It might just be a joke, only referring to the demons being from Hell, not Hell itself.
Midway intended Doom 64 to be a sequel to there Playstation special edition of Doom that combined Doom and Doom II levels into one game with Midway exclusive secrets. Midway moved Doom more towards its Horror aspects than the FPS action with Horror images because hell. There spin of ID Tech 1 added colored sector lighting on PSX and that engine was ported to N64 where it gained semi quake like aspects.
@@GermanPeterdoom 64 is Midway's sequel to there PLAYSTATION SPECIAL EDITION OF DOOM a combined campaign of Jaguar doom and Doom 2 levels with enhanced lighting and a new soundtrack. It makes it hard to connect to the PC games since final doom has two viable years episodes for filling it's slot and the Final Doom on PlayStation is a In name only release its really a collection of Master levels and levels from both final doom wads dumped on the PSX doom engine unoptimised
I always imagined Doom 1 -> Doom 2 -> Final Doom -> Doom 64 was just the UAC continuously fucking up
I'm curious if Final Doom even counts as canon, since like Master Levels, they were fan-made expansions made official by id.
Though out of the current Classic DOOM expansions, I think Sigil would just about count because of how they were made by John Romero, can't speak for No Rest For The Living or the newly added Legacy of Rust though, perhaps it's a topic for Peter to discuss.
I don't consider anything that wasn't made by id themselves in the early 90s canon. That was my main issue with the "BJ is related to Doomguy"-theory, because it was only "confirmed" by the original devs in like 2020, decades after the games had already come out. You can always say things later, but if it was important, why wasn't it said from the start?
@@FireStormDel I consider Final Doom, Master Levels, Sigil + Sigil 2, No Rest For the Living, and Legacy of Rust all canon personally
@@GermanPeter As a video game creator who writes the majority of the story of my titles, sometimes you come up with ideas later down the road for the story you are making. Hell, even decades after you created a story, sometimes you (or others apart of that team) want to make changes or additions that add on to the story elements. Sure sometimes it can get very confusing, or just really stupid, but it was meant to be apart of the original story, even if people (like me) didn't orginally put that as canon in the first place, things change alot during a serie's development over the years, like The Legend of Zelda and it's timeline.
@@GermanPeterit's kinda canon because as Hugo said there's many Doomguys but one only became Slayer. Moreso, Doom universe is a multiverse with different dimensions, timelines, and universes like Marvel does. Btw why are you, the guy who completely despises every Doom outside the 2016, are even doing here? Why are you making videos on the series you deem unworthy of existing? Why not make things you actually enjoy?
"this video contains- *presses the right arrow* -doom games"
how could he put that in a video ??
oops! all doom games
Dammit, I wanted soup recipes!
Dear god.
@@ajraglePAPYRUS WHY ARE YOU AT SOUP
Doomguy is Link - a mute hero in green armor that always appears whenever he is needed most.
The Link theory makes sense because Links adventure is basically the same tragic story repeating itself. It is always the same Link but a different reincarnation. As well as all the other characters.
So either BFG or SSG is his master sword
I can't wait for Doom of the Wild, where he's finally going to crossdress.
Link, now soon to also have a disappointing live action movie that is a bad idea. I just would have loved to see Rock The Dwayne Johnson (that's his name) play Link, because that's funny.
@@GermanPeter that’s what dark age is gonna be
“Ugh, you’re always so full of doom and gloom. What are you, some kind of a ‘doom guy’?”
“Erm, mind repeating that?”
"Oh no, Doom Guy! We thought we were safe on Earth, but there's Doom, Too!"
-"You're right, it seems there's Hell on Earth!"
“No matter how many of these demons I have to face, I will not let them be my Doom (2016)”
@@Gordon-Freeman-Gamingman this Doom is Eternal, like a Resurrection of Evil, better not make these my Lost Missions, gotta stay Mighty, for there is No Rest for the Living
@@fojisan2398this ones good
"what you got in there?"
"DOOM" Pickup smile
The Doom 2 manual basically retells an alternate Doom 1. This version of Doom Guy probably didn't fall into the trap at the end of KDITD, but as a consequence he only pushed back the demons, never venturing into hell to fully thwart the demons plans to invade Earth.
The Doom 64 manual seems to take place after a hypothetical 'good' ending to Doom 1. The Doom Guy managed to halt the invasion before the demons could completely takeover Earth. The UAC managed to do damage control in this timeline to suppress the demons.
However the probable answer though is that manuals are completely non-canon. Nothing but notes on the back of a napkin because they needed to fill the manual with something.
My mindset with most video game manuals (or any other paratextual material for that matter, like cover art, ads, etc.) is that it's only canonical insofar as it doesn't contradict what we're shown by the games themselves, since the games are the primary text. So the parts about Doomguy's backstory and the details on the UAC are all mostly true, but any time they say something that goes against what we saw and did in the games themselves, then those details can be completely discarded.
DUDE! I love that theory! So Doom 2 happens specifically BECAUSE Doomguy didn't go to hell to defeat the Spider-Mastermind! Though, it arguably leads to a better ending for Doomguy, as he destroys Hell after all and gets to help rebuild it. In 64, he stays in Hell instead and gets PTSD.
I suspect the D2 manual retelling was just a mistake, as id Soft was never really big on story and lore.
Doom 1's ending was a lie, like, a fake earth the demons made to torture Doomguy. When he escapes that place he then returns to earth realizing the demons took over after you killed the Mastermind or maybe already did
Its been said that after DOOM, DOOM II, and DOOM 64, Doomguy was somehow teleported through another universe/dimension entirely, and this universe is another version of Earth with their own UAC, doing the exact same thing, only with the Sentinels and the Khan Maker having a major part in the universe's history along with Hell of course
and yes Bethesda considers this canon, according to DOOM 2016 and DOOM Eternal
You got it right.
@@DeadPixel1105 Wow! Im rarely ever right about anyting :D
A theory of mine is that the UAC only exists in that Earth because Doomguy came ot the Sentinels and both the Sentinel priests and Samur became aware and one might've created the UAC, since Earthlings descend from Sentinels in that universe.
Gay ass story
I keep saying Doom's setting might as well be appealing if treated as an idea that can be interpretated differently instead of a "universe" with connections and logic that will always have its issues.
"Doomguy" is a fanmade term treated officially, for a nameless character Romero wanted us to self insert as.
Don't forget that Hell itself changed in the games, like how the canon of cybernetic demons went from Hell origin to UAC origin.
Kind of like the Legend of Zelda, where Hyrule changes constantly between games. Where even though hundreds of years pass between the games, they never leave the Middle Ages.
@@GermanPeterIn a magical world there's little incentive for progress, people never experienced something as devastating as the black plague to force them to innovate and invest in technology that could improve their quality of life
Anytime something like that could happen a mysterious goddess would come and save them and expect worshipping for the next 100 years without ever helping them again.
I like to think that Doomguy is, ultimately, a kind man. He has (had) a pet bunny after all. This isn't the profile of an indiscriminate murder machine. He just really, really hates demons. And who wouldn't, honestly?
He hates bullies, injustice, and the harming of innocent life (he assaulted his superior officer for ordering him to fire upon civilians, for example). He's like a metal version of Captain America, I guess. But fighting the forces of Hell, rather than Hydra.
@@DeadPixel1105 Yup. More evidence. :)
Fans of Hazbine Hotel unironically
Everything takes place in chronological order, with the exception of any extra episodes added in rereleases (Thy Flesh Consumed, No Rest for the Living, The Lost Levels, etc.) The Doomguy in Doom, Doom 2, Final Doom, Doom 64, Doom 2016, and Doom Eternal are all the same guy, while the Doom 3 marine is a different one. The reason the "story" is a clusterfuck up until Doom 3 was because of the dev team's belief that videogame stories were like prono stories - they were expected to be there, but not very important.
Hot Take: Romero's opinion on stories in games is one of the worst things to happen to the DOOM franchise
My understanding of the end of Knee Deep In The Dead has never been that Doomguy goes to Hell because he dies, but rather that attempting to take out the Phobos Anomaly gateway transports him to the Deimos Anomaly (in Hell) and the battle to the death that the episode ends with is just a teaser for the full game that is supposed to represent that the fight continues.
A possible resolution for the story differences between Doom and Doom II could be that it is indeed two different Doomguys:
Doomguy #1 is the one who assaulted a superior officer and was sent to Phobos, travels to Deimos, and stops the invasion from Hell.
Doomguy #2 was stationed on Mars proper, which was presumably also invaded, and managed to fight off the hordes there, earning him recognition as a war hero while his counterpart was stuck in Hell. This is the guy we play as in Doom II.
The first bit kind of works with how Doom's port on PS1 & Saturn changes the ending portal of E1M8 to a standard exit.
Sure, it only applies to those versions and was likely a change necessitated by how they wanted a continuous flow for that story and likely something to do with tech differences between console and PC.
But it still makes sense that'd be how it could transition better between episodes, since as you mentioned, it's original intent with the monster ambush was a teaser than confirmation our guy dies.
For me, it's the same guy, and Doom's main canon is Ultimate > Sigil > II > No Rest For The Living > 64 > 2016 > Eternal
For me, Final Doom and Master Levels aren't canon, Doom 3 is it's own thing, and I haven't played Legacy of Rust yet to see what story it has before I decide if it applies to my timeline or not, then again, I am counting NRFTL which wasn't directly made by id either if I remember.
The original concept was that episode 2 would be hell and episode 3 saw you cross to Deimos base that was hell-ified, but ID switched the last two episodes at the eleventh hour (indeed, even in the pre-Beta the levels are still structured the original way)
In the original concept, the idea was you died and woke up in hell. Fought your way back out of hell, then landed back in reality but it was warped by hell.
By switching out the episodes and having episode 2 and 3 in a different order, the ending of episode 1 no longer made sense.
I think it's like. A reverse Marathon Infinity situation, where instead of one person who eventually starts switching between multiple contradictory timelines, it's multiple versions of the same person across multiple timelines who either A. fuse into one being, or B. end up following the same path.
DOOM 3 seems to imply this as well, given that it was confirmed to be a separate continuity but has similar beats. I believe it's also been confirmed in an Eternal codex entry that Hell is the same dimension across the multiverse, which feeds into your theory as well
What if there are two Doom guys in the original games?
One guy doesn't have a pet rabbit, gets send to Mars as a punishment, fights the Demons on Phobos and goes to Hell only to emerge back on Earth while it 's already being invaded.
The other one has a pet rabbit and gets send to Mars for unrelated reasons, fights of the invasion on Mars proper (I don't think the game ever mentions the Martian moons anywhere) gets called a hero and retires only to come back later when Earth gets invaded and chooses to stay in Hell afterwards.
Doom 2016 could be either one because this game establishes that the classic games are another timeline and that Hell being multiversal acts as way to cross dimentions.
My Money is on the theoratical Doom Guy 2 because he fits in with the whole "He walked the umbreal planes" part of Slayer lore better.
DOOM RPG takes place on Mars and in the end protagonist escape though space pod. Considering Carmack was involved with it...
Oh, yeah, one more thing RE: D64. Doom 64 follows PSX version (ported by same people), where Doom 2 levels follow directly after Thy Flesh Consumed, so no contradiction there.
My personal way of smoothing over the contradictions would be that Doomguy doesn't actually escape he'll at the end episode 3 Inferno. Rather, all of episode 4 Thy Flesh Consumed takes place in a hellish recreation of Earth and afterwards Doomguy ends up back were he started on Mars where he uses a droppod return to Earth for the events of Doom II.
Leading into the events if Doom 64, the cover-up mention wasn't to hide the invasion, but rather to hide the UNCs involvement in starting it.
I Really like the idea of having multiple timelines, Something that i allways liked imagining was that the marine from mods like brutal doom and project brutality are their own individuals who passed through their own speciall flavor off hell, for instance.
Its just fun to think about
Hugo said there were a lot of Doomguys. But just one Slayer.
It was said somewhere every mappack for the classic games is semi-canon (By Romero i think? Not sure) it just is it's own version of hell for a different Doomguy.
Now you gave me brain trauma. Since PSX Doom was he first time I ever played Doom in my life, I also considered them canon, and since the Master Levels, TNT Evilution and Plutonia are also in PSX Doom, for me, they were also canon. But one thing that I remember is that the original Doomguy was unnamed so that the player himself could be Doomguy, and not just some specific marine. Under this assumption, all Doomguys are the one and same person, ignoring the spin offs and other Doom media.
Now, considering Doom's development, and the Doom Bible, it is possible that we're talking about multiple people, with the different player classes and multiple marines in the cover showing that the could have started the journey as a team, but as the game progressed, each of your comrades would die, or go missing, leaving you the sole survivor at the end of the game... at least on Phobos, since it is where the first Doom takes place.
Maybe the other characters might not have die, but simply gone missing or evacuated, considering that the first episode ends with the player character dying and going to hell, but it doesn't mean the others also died there. It might be that Doomguy 1 died and went to hell, only to return to earth via portal (basically escaping Hell and resurrecting in the process), while Doomguy 2 managed to evacuate to earth in a escape pod, and that Doomguy 2 was a war veteran by the time of the first game.
And this all while considering it was only on Phobos. So, we have Doomguy 1 (protag of the first Doom) as the sole survivor inside Hell, and Doomguy 2 (protag of Doom 2) being the sole survivor from the initial Phobos invasion.
Now, for Doom 3, the events of the classic games could have happened in tandem with it, just on different locations (Doom 1 in Phobos, and Doom 3 in the surface of Mars itself, both eventually going to different parts of Hell). And with the expansion Resurrection of Evil taking place two years after the base game, then it could be that the protagonist of the DLC, who I'll call Doomguy 4, might have been Doomguy 2 returning to clean up the mess, or an entirely different character.
As for Doom64, it may be that Doomguy 1, after leaving Hell at the end of "Inferno" or "Thy Flesh Consumed", was sent to clean up the UAC bases that were nuked to cover everything up priror to the Hell on Earth invasion, with the events of Doom64 taking place in tandem with Doom 2, but in the beginning hours of the invasion, where ther was still some hope of covering everything up, with just a few localized hostilies in the beginning hours, also involving the death of Daisy, with the UAC still thinking it could stop the invasion and cover it up, but as the invasion became bigger and bigger, then the events of Doom 2 start after sometime into Doom 64, with Doomguys 1 and 2 fighting on different fronts, almost like the African Theater and Eastern Front of WW2, both happening at the same time, but starting at different moments in different locations.
So, we have:
- Doomguy 1 dying in "Knee-Deep in the Dead", escaping from Hell in "Inferno" or "Thy Flesh Consumed", then returning to Hell in Doom64 and staying there for an untold amount of time that leads up to Doom 2016 and Doom Eternal;
- Doomguy 2 surviving the initial invasion on Phobos and escaping to Earth on an escape pod, arriving just a bit later than Doomguy 1 to the Hell on Earth invasion;
- Doomguy 3 fighting in the surface of Mars as Doomguy 1 went to Hell and Doomguy 2 escaped to Earth from Phobos;
- Doomguy 4 returning to Mars to fight the Maledic, aka Dr Bertruger, after the Hell invasion has been stopped and Earth was rebuilding itself.
Now, if I were to consider the events of Final Doom and Master Levels as cannon, then it would most logically be Doomguy 2 fighting in those places, as at the end of Plutonia, the protagonist thinks of telling his grandchildren to put a Rocket Launcher in his coffin when he dies, as if he was going to hell to finish the job, all while Doomguy 1, at the events of Doom64, would stay there and fight. Since I'm talking about the possibility of PSX Doom being canon to the story, and PSX Doom also has Final Doom and Master Levels in it, it would make some sense, at least for me.
I can get behind all of that.
@@GermanPeter Well, that's the best theory I could come up with. Love your videos about Doom and Wolfenstein. They're absolutely great.
The question "Who is Doomguy" is best answered by this Arnold Schwarzenegger quote: “I’m a stud. I’m ballsy. I don’t take no shit from anyone. I smoke my stogie anywhere I want. I don’t have to find a hiding place like you do.”
I would argue that in Doom 64, what was covered up was the details of Doom Guy's trip to hell - and probably any UAC involvement in general - rather than the attack on Earth itself. Its clunky but workable lol
I thought this was obvious, ofcourse they didn't cover up demons taking over the planet, lmao
Yeah, the UAC lied to the public about what happened to the Mars base. They said it was just some big accident/disaster which forced the evacuation and closure of the bases on Mars and its moons. They hid the fact that it was actually a demonic invasion from Hell itself.
Speaking of Doom II and the invasion of Earth, it's strange. When you look at the lore of the games, such as Doom 64, it acts like Doom II didn't happen. Like Doom II isn't canon. Same for Final Doom. Reading the story for Doom 64, it seems like only the first Doom game is canon. As we all know though, what is and isn't considered proper canon in the Doom franchise is a big mess at times lol
The UAC of the classic games weren't evilly greedy, just whimsical and incompetent. They wouldn't cover it up for the sake of bad press, mostly also because the Earth's population was reduced to supposedly, a bunch of maybe dozens or thousands of spaceships trapped in the starport.
If We Also Count Playable Characters As "DoomGuy" Then 4 Or 5
1) DoomGuy/Slayer From 1/2/64/2016/Eternal
2) DoomMarine From Doom 3
3) Red-Team Marine From Ressurrection Of Evil
4) Bravo-Team Member From Lost Mission
5) AncientWarrior On The Stone Tablets From Doom 3 With The Soul Cube (Who Might Or Not Be The DoomSlayer)
If I had to guess where Episode 4 "Thy Flesh Consumed" took place, it's definitely hell due to the atmosphere. It's possible that the marine went back through the portal to find another part of hell to ravage, then he goes back to Earth to the Star Base. But that theory does clash with the Doom II manual story. It's possible that while the marine on Phobos went to Deimos, Hell, back to Earth and then repeats the whole nightmare again in Doom 64, the other marine was stationed on Mars and battling in a deleted episode of Doom before going to Earth, then the Hell on Earth, and destroying the Icon of Sin.
In Doom 3 it is made clear that the marines for the main game, Resurrection of Evil, and The Lost Mission are three completely separate marines and not one Doom Guy. It's funny how we keep seeing a second marine in the Doom series. I don't think the series were designed to be chronologically accurate or tell a proper story from start to finish, all players care about is killing every monster they can. It would be a mess if you tried to illustrate all those connections on a web diagram. However if you theorise all marines are Doomguys then we're watching the Multiverse.
Maybe the inconsistencies between doom 1, 2 and 64 is because we are viewing the classic games as the doom slayer remembers them. He is eons old so it’s not too far fetched to assume that he might not fully remember every detail about the classic games, which would be relatively early on in his life that that point in time. TLDR: The classic games contradict each other because Doom slayer is just remembering them incorrextly
You are just retconning the Doom's story to absolue maximum with this theory... you know if you retcon something you can make up literally anything you want right? Maybe doom 1, doom 2, doom 3 and doom 64 were just combat simulations of hell's invasion produced by UAC!
"It's all a bad memory" is such a cop-out though. I mean, that's one step removed from "It was all a dream". Why even care about anything then if it's just made-up nonsense? Might as well not even have happened.
That's a good interpretation actually. Doomguy/Slayer is a classic 'unreliable narrator'. I like that idea.
Doomguy is you, Soldier.
Rip and tear, UNTIL IT IS DONE!
I feel like a lot of classic fps game protagonists are the same ass kicking badasses and later on they started integrating catchphrases for the characters like duke nukem and serious sam
I still refuse to believe that doomguy is the same guy as doomslayer he is legitimately not even the same guy
Maybe Doomguy is the friends we made along the way?
Also, in the title screen, you can see a red monochrome demon biting something or someone, which couldn't easily be seen of what it is, but it could be another marine like the Doom Slayer. Maybe the marine you play as, in Doom, goes back to Hell after witnessing the demons conquering a city on Earth, which is where episode 4 takes place so that future demonic invasions are prevented, it's like turning on the faucet, making a big mess in the house, the most obvious solution would be to turn off the faucet before it makes a bigger mess than it should, then start mopping the floors clean. Final Doom is canon in my book because the Master Levels of Doom 2 are not made by ID Software map designers, but by fans, including Tim Willitz(who later on worked for ID Software), Dr. Sleep, Cranium, etc, and ID Software declared it as official. There are also different Doom Guys like Dr. Sleep's Inferno series and Cranium's Cabal series where you used to be a demon king that morphed into a human, but that's a different can of worms. Final Doom's campaigns, TNT Evilution and the Plutonia Experiment, are made by Team TNT and the Casali Brothers, respectively, which were both sold to and published by ID Software. Maybe, Doom 64 is meant to be a sequel to Final Doom because according to the plot of TNT Evilution and the Plutonia Experiment takes place in the Jupiterian moon of Io. After that, the marine goes to Hell and kills the Icon of Sin. Also, maybe the leftover demons who survived the events of those games, were transported to Mars in order to be killed with radiation, and because UAC didn't want to alarm people about the events of TNT Evilution and the Plutonia Experiment, they just hid it under the rug, and since Earth doesn't know about the player saving the world again, no one recognized him as the hero anymore. Also, it does make sense about the Doom Slayer being the same person from the old Doom games because of the existence of the retro suit and the cameos of Daisy, Slayer's pet rabbit. If I'm not mistaken, the reason why Daisy appears in specific spots throughout the levels is because the Doom Slayer was thinking so much about Daisy that he starts to hallucinate about her, which also drives him to kill demons.
To me, Doomguy is Flynn "Fly" Taggert; as he's called in the DOOM books by Dafydd ab Hugh, and Brad Linaweaver.
Doomguy is John Romero. He is the one posing for the photograph and drawn into the cover art (of the original Doom). The male model they originally hired is standing next to him and grabbing his arm, becoming the demon on the cover art.
3:30 There Is Also Another Marine Getting Chomped By A Pinky On the Tittle Screen
Hello GermanPeter! im the soldier 76 u once met in a tf2 match. As a avid classic doom fan, im happy to see you also are interested in classic doom. Classic doom has so much possibilities for fun, creative and tense engagements.
Damn, I still have a screenshot of your loadout, I think.
Great channel man, binging the backlog now.
Can't get enough Doom after the nightdive rerelease.
My theory, there are two doomguys who fought at Phobos base, one of them died at Phobos at the end of episode one and went through the rest of Doom 1, the other was brought home and hailed as a hero for helping to stop the invasion, Doom 64 and Doom 2 are the stories of two separate doomguys, one who only had a small taste of what hell was capable of until Doom 2, the other who was permanently mentally changed from his experience in hell so the UAC hid him away until they found a use for him
my headcannon based on what ive seen:
doom with og doom marine/doom II with another doom marine -> doom 64/doom 3 -> resurrection of evil leading to the end of doom marine 2's story -> doom 2016 -> doom eternal -> doom the dark ages
The New Doom games establish that the multiverse is a thing, the Earth in 2016 and Eternal is not the same Earth from the classic games, with Doom 3 also in its own universe.
They explicitly state that The Icon of Sin has been RESURRECTED prior to fighting him, he died in Doom 2, we see his corpse in Doom 2016, and he's revived in Doom Eternal.
I know the Icon of Sin was resurrected, but if it got killed, by whom?
I also don't know why you'd introduce the concept of multiverses to your game. At that point, why not just create your own canon? Why try to connect it to the other games in such a loose manner? The problem with multiverses is that anything goes, so why should you really care about this "Doomguy", because there's another, identical one around the corner.
@@GermanPeter The Doomguy we follow from the classics to the new games is unique, he's the one to choose to stay in hell and ultimately become the Doom Slayer.
The concept of hell in the new games centers around the fact that it invades and consumes other realities.
The id multiverse also wasn't created by Doom 2016, it started back in Quake 1 with the interdimensional invaders that are Shub-Niggurath and her children, they're eldritch entities that invade other realities.
It then came in full force with Quake 3, and was then fully reintroduced with Quake Champions. Wolfenstein Youngblood also further reinforces the existence of the id multiverse.
It's not that there's an infinite amount of copies of every character, there's an infinite variety of iterations and dimensions to explore, all 5 or 6 of the Earths we've seen throughout id's history have been unique in their own right, people and events playing out differently than their counterparts.
@@GermanPeter it's the same reason people still care and get invested with comic book characters despite there being a bajillion variations of them throughout their multiverses, the ones we follow are the ones we care about, it doesn't matter if there's other copies of them out there.
Marvel even had 2 whole ass versions of their universe running at the same time back when the 616 and Ultimate lines were both running.
I always pictured the Doomguy is supposed to be no other than you. I've always felt that playing Doom 1 and Doom 2. You are that poor bastard that got selected to investigate a remote Phobos base because of circumstances beyond your control because you tried to do the right thing. I like this idea because it makes the classic Doom games a little more personalized with your playthroughs. Saying that you died and got brought back to life in Episode 2 feels like more of an impact than Doomslayer being chosen being this unstoppable force to defeat hell.
Half Doom, half Guy. Mystery solved.
I always kind of thought of Doom 64 as a sort of "alternate sequel" to the first game in the same way that Sonic CD & Sonic 2 were both equally valid attempts at a follow up to the first game.
Yeah, I can absolutely see that. Kind of the bad ending to Doom 1. Doom 2 might end with Hell on Earth, but you destroy Hell too. In 64, you choose to stay there instead and go insane.
Demons: "Who are you?"
Doomguy: "I'm your worst nightmare."
Timeline D: Doomguy is taken by the Vadrigar and forced to fight in the Arena Eternal
A few things in case someone hasn't mentioned them here in the comments:
1) One way to interpret who Doomguy is - I read it somewhere written by the developers themselves: The doomguy is supposed to be... *YOU* (the player).
2) If you look closer at the Doom 1 title screen, you'll see there are 3 marines. On the right-hand side, there's a marine being destroyed by a pinky demon.
3) I'm fairly certain this isn't canon, but in the book the Doomguy was named Flynn Taggart.
he's the guy from doom
I’m not sure if it’s 100% confirmed but essentially yes canon doom has multiple timelines, with the main timeline of doom1-2-64 ending with Doomguy in hell where he eventually goes on to do the Bethesda doom stuff because hell is outside of time so has access to many universes
Wake up, *GermanPeter just dropped a new video.*
Episode 4 is definitely on earth, considering the sky texture being the same exact orange sky seen in Episode 3's ending and E4M9 being an earthy UAC base. I like to think it's Doomguy roaming the countryside trying to reach the City / Starport. Also, I really appreciate you making these deep dive videos into dooms story and inconsistencies. I may not agree with a lot of your takes but I'm glad these exist because I thought I was the only one who cared about it lol.
Also, another thing to mention is in the classic Doom games, you NEVER step foot on Mars in gameplay. Doom 1 takes place on Phobos (Episode 1) and Deimos (Episode 2), Doomguy was only on mars for a short time before being transported to Phobos where all of his comrades die on the radio. And in Doom 64 it seems heavily implied the base they "Radiated" were the ones on Phobos, not Mars.
You didn't include Final Doom, but if you did it gets even weirder cause the main character of TNT: Evilution is just referred to as "Marine Commander" in the manual with no relation to the OG Doomguy. But in the story texts he mentions the "familiar smell of hell" so it's a bit messy lol. Plutonia could just be the same guy because he just seems to be on vacation in that one before being called to the jungle base.
1) I figured Episode 4 was on Earth too because of the sky, but it's not like "orange clouds" is really something that can ONLY be on Earth. And the levels genuinely do NOT resemble Earth structures in the slightest, not even if you suspend your disbelief. There's so much green marble that is only ever used in Hell.
2) I know it's not on Mars, it's just easier to say than "Phobos" constantly.
3) I don't care about Final Doom because it was made by a bunch of different guys that didn't have anything to do with the original dev team. I consider them about as canon as every custom WAD, meaning not at all. Same goes for Sigil. Sorry, making a new episode 20 years after the fact doesn't suddenly make it canon to me.
@@GermanPeter For Episode 4, I always assumed the levels were demon-made outposts and strongholds, which explains why some of them look like they aren't on earth. perhaps they are located in a rockier region. Doom 2 text screens mention demons twisting stuff on earth to match their own reality, hell.
"BUT SOMETHING IS WRONG. THE MONSTERS HAVE BROUGHT THEIR OWN REALITY WITH THEM, AND THE STARPORT'S TECHNOLOGY IS BEING SUBVERTED BY THEIR PRESENCE." and from then on, the levels have a lot more hell-esque designs with lava and marble rooms littering the place.
So, I just imagine the demons used their magic to twist human outposts completely into hells image. It's very vague how long the demons were on earth for before Doomguy showed back up. (If you are going off of Doom2guy being the same guy and not different person in the manual.) So, I think its plausible.
Also, if you haven't you should check out this high-quality fan-made intermission map for Episode 4. I think it captures where Episode 4 could take place at. At least if you go by the "demonic outposts on earth" idea.
www.doomworld.com/forum/topic/146204-%E2%9B%A7-thy-flesh-consumed-intermission-map-screen-v10-%E2%9B%A7-an-add-on-for-ultimate-doom/
True, that could work, but it'd be a BIG stretch. Even the most "subverted" parts of Earth in Doom 2 aren't nearly as hellish as those levels are. Like I said, that's straight-up green marble, something only ever used for Hell in Doom 1. Even in Doom 2, it's used very sparingly.
Also, if it IS on Hell, then it's kinda weird he'd go from the most important outposts of Hell to a random space base before eventually making his way back to the same type of outposts. Like attacking a castle before heading into the nearby village and then back to the castle.
I like to think thy flesh consumed takes place in the gates of hell you just came out from and also some hell consumed buldings and bases
DoomGuy is a man. A man with a bunny. A poor lil bun bun. Possibly a bunny related to the ones in Shadow Warrior, who Lo Wang saw being conceived. We can only hope and dream.
in original Shadow Warrior or the 2013+ reboot series?
I think the best portrayal of the original Doom guy was in the US/Canadian commercial for the SNES game. He's the last one left alive, and he's losing his grip on his sanity.
Personally, I wouldn't split hairs with timelines and ignore the manuals. To me, Doom, Doom II, and Doom 64 take place one after another. Doom Guy goes through the events of the game and sees earth under attack and immediately goes in to save his home, starting Doom II. He kills the icon of sin and then becomes a wor hero but is left with PTSD leading into Doom 64. The events of 64 and the lost levels happen leading into the reboot. I think this makes it easier to connect all 3 games.
All games from those days often contradict one another, so I think that just discarding them and taking key plots points make more sense rather than taking them at face value and treating them as 100% cannon.
I already said in another comment that you can't just ignore the manuals, because that's where most of the story comes from. And even then, it makes little sense for the UAC to be so coy by only sending a single guy to clear up their bases in 64 when Earth was JUST invaded.
@GermanPeter
It's true that most of the story is in the manual, but from my perspective and experience, manuals from that time period are often ineffective and filled with errors or just wrong information. But I am not saying to do a book burning, I just think that it's best to take key plot poits like Why doom guy is on mars, the PTSD and the war hero stuff, discard whats not needed or contradicts stuff and then shift them around to make the story make sense. I think the war hero stuff can still be true but be put at the end of doom II rather at the beginning. The PTSD can still be a facter, but due to both Doom and Doom II, rather than just one of the games.
And in regard to only sending Doom guy alone in 64 making little sense, I think it makes perfect sense. This one man survived two demon invasions and killed what could be presumed as the devil. So to lower casualties, they send him alone thinking he would do the job and clean up their mess, which he did.
I think in this case it's a difference in opinion. I personally don't trust manuals and would rather let the game speak for itself, and I think doom does it well and can tell a story without even touching the manual, but if we were to include information from the manual, then just taking key stuff like why he is there and more interesting tidbits is the best rute and ignore the rest.
@@Igronavt360 Exactly what I thought!
I'm fairly sure the classified thing they were talking about in 64's manual was just the Mars Base incident. It doesn't mean Doom 2 didn't happen. Anything more nitty gritty than that in the classic games barely matters. This still keeps a through-line between Doom 1 2 and 64, and follows up nicely into 2016 and Eternal. Also if you're wondering where the Icon in Eternal came from, it's implied to be a resurrected form of the Icon after the one in Doom 2 was killed. The Icon in Eternal was given form again when a member of the Night Sentinels betrayed his people in exchange for the resurrection of his son. This was done, but his son's soul was used instead to give form to the Icon of Sin again.
5:13 you do fight a cyberdemon in a city in map 15 (Industrial Zone) but only with multiplayer enemies enabled.
Yeah, and also in Downtown. But 90% of players will never experience that.
3:42 don't think it matters cause he's gets his butt killed anyway
"Doom guy" is you, the player. The everyman soldier, in this case.
I’m actually working on a mod about the other marine on the doom box art
Sick!!!
Time moves differently in hell, which in turn creates different timelines. In DOOM 1, doomguy supposedly died on Deimos (E1M8) physically, but yet was transferred to hell with his own body (piece of Phobos floating above hell). He was already in hell by that point, which ultimately created different timelines where the same doomguy (but "le different") went through similar story leading up to hell on earth. DOOM Eternal puts a strong emphasis on that by claiming that each slayer outfit is canon.
I interpreted it as small retcons along the way to allow the next to happen, besides 3, which probably takes place some other timeline (possibly 2016's, but that theory's a hit shaky at the moment)
Zig zag hair theory:
Doomguy got so stressed after the events of Ultimate DOOM that his hairline started receding at a rapid rate. Doom Slayer is balding at unprecedented speeds
where is Doom RPG and Doom RPG 2? They counts as oficial canon, surprise-surprise...
Mentioned them in the other video, and it's better I didn't count them, since they just do their own thing. Doom 2 RPG isn't even really connected to Doom RPG.
And I would hardly consider a mobile spinoff that maybe 10 people played "canon". What about that on-rails Doom 3 for mobile? Is that canon?
No, I only focus on games that people would go out of their way to buy if they wanted a new entry in the Doom series. If you wanted a new Super Mario game, you wouldn't go out and buy Mario Kart.
@@GermanPeter what 10 people you talking about? It's OFICIAL canon, that's what John Carmack said
i like how you cover all my fav games.
The Doom novels provide a lot of interesting, though not canon, backstory. It would actually be quite interesting to see someone do a video comparing what's in the novel to the game, because at least the first novel actually follows the game pretty closely, all the areas described are clearly recognizable places from Doom's first three episodes, etc
My head canon was always that doom 64 is the ‘retconed’ game - but instead of saying it never happened, I like to think that it happens within doom guy’s psyche, a nightmare basically, as PTSD from his experiences in doom 1 and 2, supported slightly by the more gloomy tone of the n64 game, the nightmare being that he is locked in a hell purgatory. Then connects to doom 2016. Specifically in doom 2016, I like to imagine the 32 bit classic rooms are either those same areas from the OG doom transported to hell or are once again hallucinations due to his PTSD from classic doom, supported by their art style which to us is just a neat throwback. Instead of assuming everything is a retcon, it makes for better storytelling if there is some logical if not slightly outlandish idea that makes some sense.
I think Doom 3 goes at the end of the timeline, main doomguy is asleep still after AG p2, and john kane is an entirely new marine who is the main character of Doom 3
I think when the forces of Quake and Shub (they are elder beings above) start to creep in and reawaken the isolated realm of Hell after the death of the dark lord and start to twist its demons (hence the new spookier designs of the demons, some of them looking somewhat quakeish)
so I think Doom 3 is borderline between Doom and Quake parts of the IDverse
Wolf3D, Keen, and Classic Doom is Universe A
then Doomguy spends time in hell fighting demons, events of dark ages happens and then he awakes in Universe B (2016-Eternal)
Universe C is Doom 3 and expansions
Universe D is the base areas before you through the Dimensional Slipgates to other dimensions in Quake and maybe this universe's earth gets attacked by the Strogg after events of Quake 1 which would lead in Quake 2 and 4
Quake is an odd case where I think it does exist in the same 'multiverse' as Doom, with the Ranger and Strogg timelines being different universes within the id cosmos. Quake 4 implies in the Hannibal rec room that it takes place in 2245 (which matches with how the human tech is more advanced than Doom 3's), though Enemy Territory then messed that up by implying that the Strogg invaded in the 21st century.
I get past this issue with their being canonically two doomguys. Flynn Taggart from Doom that fought on Phobos, Deimos, and the marine from Doom 3 who fought during the same incident but on Mars. In Doom 3's timeline Earth is fine for at least 2 years after until Resurrection of Evil which would give time for Doom64 to occur, which means Doom64 marine and thus Doom slayer is actually Doom3 marine.
What does the marine do right after the events of Doom 3?
Doomslayer is not the guy from Doom 3,Doom 3 isn’t canon. the Bethesda game timeline is Doom,Doom II,Doom 64,Dark Ages(not out yet),Doom 2016,Doom Eternal
at 13:00, isnt there a 3rd marine getting eaten by a pinkie?
Could also be a zombieman.
in my opinion the timeline goes: Doom 1, Doom 2, Doom 2016, Doom Eternal. Im not sure when Dark Ages is gonna happen, probably wayyyyyyyyy before Doom 1's events
Honestly, the best thing to do here is to connect everything into one (more or less) cause it'll make the most sense and overall be the most satisfying. It'll result in some retconning, but you'll only retcon the less interesting parts overall, in my opinion.
1. Doomguy goes through Phobos, Deimos and Hell itself, then EP 4 happens and its either somewhere between Hell and Earth or on hellish bases on Earth, he fights through and finally gets back home proper. Hell invades.
2. Still the same Doomguy, no drop pods no nothing, the story begins where it left off. Doomguy's home, but so are demons. In a twist of irony (or spite) they continute to pour out of a portal located in Doomguy's town, he goes there and stops the invasion.
Here, you could put Final DOOM, if you want. Just some more UAC-assisted cleanup of Hellish forces by Doomguy.
3. Earth is still rebuilding, Doomguy is severely traumatized and UAC, in an effort to prevent any further invasions (and to hide the last bits of evidence of their involvement with the teleportation tech, guess nobody knows its specifically UAC that let it all happen) bombards the Phobos bases, but a singular demon manages to jump start another invasion. Doomguy, now delirious, yet with his heart in the right place, goes to stop yet another invasion, details unnecessary, in his delusions he's more focused than ever before. By the end, he understands that if no one is going to perma-stop Hell, it'll just continue to invade. And thus, he remains. Here, I imagine that the idea of "all WADS are canon" is only partially true. Not EVERY WAD may be canon (impse lol). You can look at it as Doomguy traveling around dimensions for eons, stopping any and all invasions in an endless battle. Until he ends up in the realm with Argent D'Nur, and the modern games take place on an alternate Earth, once they excavate Doomguy's sarcophagus.
The way I look at DOOM 3's protag and story as a whole, thanks to the fact that dimension-hopping is fully canon, is just a in different dimension all-together. But, given that Hell is one place, it tried to invade another Earth, but failed again.
The second Marine on the title screen looks like they're being attacked by a demon, so maybe that's one of the several dead marines at the base?
I don’t know if you will see this but based on the logs in 2016 and eternal after doom 2 the doom guy started dimension hopping with hell and slip gates to kill demons making the timeline Doom - Doom 2 - dimension hop - Doom 64 - dimension hop through hell - 2016 and eternal. Eternals logs are pretty much saying there’s a Doom multiverse and based on what they say people theorize all of the multiverses connect to one hell or something similar.
This also makes doom 3 and other doom games canon in a way
Maybe they were not covering up the existence of demons, but just the UAC's role in it
I think the main reason the timeline doesn’t make sense is because you’re looking at the manuals and some external media, which are likely non canon. It make a lot more sense if doom 2 directly follows up doom 1, then doom 64 happens after doom 2, where at the end, doom guy decides stays in hell, which is followed up by doom 2016 and doom eternal, and the time in between doom 64 and doom 2016 is explained in doom eternal through some of the cutscenes and codex, and doom 3 is not canon. That’s what I think makes the most sense and what most people agree on.
You HAVE to look at the manuals, because that's where 99% of the story in older games was told. As long as the manual doesn't contradict what is actually shown in game (which it doesn't here), I see no reason to disregard them.
And Doom 64 following Doom 2 makes no sense even if you ignore the manual. Why irradiate the Martian bases? Earth was JUST invaded by Hell. I think they have bigger things to worry about.
@@GermanPeter the manuals for 99% of those older games were written as afterthoughts by interns using plot footnotes, rarely did the actual devs write them.
A majority of the problem with Doom 2 are fixed simply by ignoring its manual, with that Doom 1 seamlessly flows into Doom 2.
Especially in the 90s, the quality control on manual plot descriptions was lackluster, Western manuals especially had a ton of straight up made up shit that the devs did not come up with.
@@GermanPeter should be noted that by "Western" I mean the US and Canada, British English manuals had some weird "huh???" stuff in them too sometimes, but basically every other country actually TRIED with their manuals.
IE, the game manuals in your native Germany ARE as trustworthy a source as you consider manuals to be, but outside Europe and Asia, manuals for old games have a notorious reputation for being wildly inaccurate, even ones for American made games.
This stopped being a problem with the turn of the century, but game manuals started being phased out afterward anyways unfortunately.
What do you mean you're not the only survivor at the end of Doom3? Yes you are, the voice over even flipping SAYS it. The guys with you at the end came with the rescue ship.
Oh! I must have totally misunderstood the scene then. My bad!
Actually, that just fuels my theory that Doom 3 takes place before Doom 2 even more.
Doom -> Doom II -> All the wads I have played -> Doom 64 -> Dark Ages (probably) -> Doom 2016 -> Doom Eternal
I always imagined id software staff made Doomguy's look from Jean Claude Van Dam, if you look at him while he's first showing blood, he looks like JVD.
my way of thinking was doomguy had a family with a pet rabbit
his family died but the pet rabbit didn't
he got punished and sent to mars for bad behavior
he survived the punishment somehow and came back to earth only to find out a disaster happened with his pet rabbit dead
he found his way directly to hell after dying in an ambush in hopes of seeking revenge and officially became THE DOOMSLAYER with his victory on his second attempt
then it leads to the events of 2016-eternal
2:55 to debunk this
The doom marine in the cover art is actually indeed our Doom Guy
In doom eternal, when you obtain the classic armour, it can be noticed that there is a huge scar on doom guys arm, exactly where the Barren of hell in the cover art grabs onto doom guys arm.
The cover art is probably from before Doom guy became the sole survivor, he most likely got separated hence what lead to the story of the first episode
He got separated because everyone else went into the Phobos base first, leaving him behind with merely a pistol. The second he enters the base, E1M1 begins. The title screen can't reflect that whatsoever. Especially because Barons only show up at the very end of the episode, and the area clearly depicts hell.
Also, I don't care about what Doom Eternal does, because it already builds on the assumption that every single classic Doom game is somehow part of the same timeline, which is impossible.
@ thanks for the comment!
I actually read through the game manual’s story myself before I watched this video and it did make sense as to why our space marine was only armed with a mere handgun
I don’t know if you noticed but, most of the former humans are wearing armour different from what our space marine is wearing.
With the only remnants of the unfortunate marines entering Phobos being still corpses
So these former humans may as well been ravaged or even complete loss of sanity marines who are stripped off whatever resources they came to Phobos with.
The manuals story did say something about returning marines being complete loss of sanity and even “full body exploding”
Let me know your thoughts and opinions on that!
Doom 3 guy is totally different because he's on Mars, while Doom 1 guy starts on Phobos, one of 2 moons of Mars, gets almost dead but teleported to Deimos, second moon, and defeating the Cyberdemon uses some power of Tower of Babel to jump to hell dimension (or hell border, not really clear if it's part of Mars or some sort of space portal) and defeats Spiderdemon there, it's from reading intermission screens.
Episode 4 Doomguy has similar haircut to Doom 2 guy from cover picture
Doom 64 isn't specifying which planet or moon we travel, could be corrupted dimension same or similar to Doom 1 episodes 3 and 4
Doom 2016 guy seems like a normal human, not a mummy in magic sleep, perhaps just an unfortunate dude who was about to be sacrificed by crazed sect during blood ritual but catches his wits and escapes at last moment and puts on the experimental suit to survive
My head cannon of the classic games (ignoring some of the text because a lot of it is clearly retconed or the devs weren’t thinking ahead while writing):
-Doom 1 Episodes 1-3
-Doomguy arrives on earth, sees his dead rabbit and what remains of his house. It’s rip and tearin’ time.
-Surviving humans try to escape via earths only star port. However while they were boarding the spaceships, demons invaded the star port and put up a force field to prevent the survivors from leaving (no I didn’t come up with the force field thing, I know it’s stated somewhere)
-Doom guy arrives to kill those little shits, but there’s one thing stopping him from going in guns blazing. What’s that you ask? Why it’s the giant fucking force field surrounding the star port I mentioned 2 seconds ago of course! Doom guy wonders how he’s gonna get inside, but then he realizes he can just use one of the 800 portals the demons built around the city to enter hell again and use it as a backdoor to the inside of the star port.
-Doom 1 Episode 4
-Demons try to stop Doomguy but he kicks their asses
-Wait, another Mastermind? How could that be? Wouldn’t that mean that it was never in charge to begin with if there’s more literally identical to this one? Yeah, seems legit.
-Doom 2
-Doom guy develops some kind of hell ptsd, and has nightmares of demons every night
-Insert Doom 64 Monologue
-Doom 64
-Roll Credits
I think it makes more sense just to assume that the contradictions in the manual have been retconned
I'd like to think that the ep 4 was doomguy saving earth, before finishing his service for doom 2, where afterwards the doctors and such question and test his abilities (He survived 2 waves of demons alone after all) while covering up that it was their fault, then doom 64 continues as normal to doom 2016 and eternal
The next doom look like its gonna fuck up the timeline even more Doomguy look like in a futuristic with vicking and ancient god like god of war !!!
The actual lore question that everyone is asking and that you dodged in the video is:
Is the Icon of Sin in Doom Eternal the same one as in Doom 2 and if yes is John Romero's head still there?
I think Doom's lore might be getting some more retcons in near future to address some of the inconsistencies
this is the most germanpeter video ever
Be quiet and make Polybius 2
@@GermanPeter :(
sorry bby ilu
This is the order of the timeline that always made sense to me.
Doom 1: Initial attack on the moons and first contact with Hell. Doomguy goes to Earth for a brief period seeing it overun.
They Flesh-Doomguy goes back into Hell to avenge his pet rabbit daisy. So it's just one big vengeance mission.
Sigil?-Its unofficial but I consider it episode five to Doom right before Doom 2.
Doom 2-Doomguy finally makes it back to Earth to finish the job. Going from the starport, releasing the barrier that lets humanity leave to space, heads to his hometown, goes back into Hell and kills the Icon.
No Rest?-Again another kinda unofficial chapter but feels to me like Doomguy doing some final cleanup on Earth after the Icons demise.
Final Doom-Eehh these ones are weird. Two whole new invasions happening one after the other I guess just a sign that the UAC never learns. And Doomguys always around to clean up the mess.
Doom64-Proper Mars demon invasion. Doomguy full of PTSD and messed up by this point. Motherdemon killed and he decided to stay in Hell.
Doom3-Retelling of Doom1 so doesn't belong in the timeline.
Doom2016-Doomguy just keeps on massacreing demons until he gets so good at it he gets noticed by gods.
Whole Argent D'nur and Seraphim stuff yada yada Doomguy becomes Doomslayer.
Goes to an alternate dimension where the first ever demon attack on Mars is happening. Alternate universe Spidermastermind dead.
Doom Eternal-Deja Vu. Earth invasion. Khan Maykr and alternate universe Icon dead.
TAG- Seraphim beaten to a pulp, Dark Lord taught never to mess with a Texan badass with a gun. Doomguy sealed away just like he was in Hell before 2016.
Annnnnd the books and comic don't count.
Thank you tristate area.
Both Final Doom wads TNT and Plutonia are ALTERNATE Sequels to Doom 2. They are both right after Doom 2 but differ in that in both timelines different things happen to the UAC after Doom 2.
In TNT's story, the UAC barely survived the invasion of earth but decide to continue teleportation experiments on one of the moons of Jupiter. In Plutonia the UAC is completely destroyed in the invasion of earth and re-founded under entirely new leadership, and they decide to find a way to prevent more invasions from happening deep in some remote jungle bases.
TNT and Plutonia are not related story wise in any way. So pretty much after Doom 2 you have your "pick-your-own-timeline!" Where you can go down the canon path of Doom 2 > Doom 64, OR choose the Final Doom route of Doom 2 > TNT and Doom 2 > Plutonia.
"Doomguy is whoever you think it is."
Doomguy wears a Miku binder and sells weed and you cannot tell me otherwise.
The only other canon I'm willing to accept!
Doomguy has scars, and not just from demons...
Considering the somewhat soft continuity of Doom, it's entirely probable that Doomguy is Bomberman from the end of Bomberman Act Zero rising to the surface to become human.
That is the only canon I am willing to accept.
Personally the way i see it is that D1-D2-D64 then connecting with 2016-Eternal is sort of the main timeline where Doomguy goes pretty much from D1 to D2 and at the end of D2 the hell mother and her host whisk Doomguy away through portal shenanigans back in time or to an alternate dimension in order to prevent the fall of the Icon and their demise, since D64 doomguy suffers from PTSD it could be a result of having his efforts undone and being driven back almost as if what he's doing is futile, to further the madness the hell mother revives the forces of hell fallen on mars stronger than before as if preparing a vanguard for a new assault on earth, as the story goes Doomguy kills the hell mother and is left wandering the warped angles and landscapes of Hell, fighting consumed by despair, rage and madness only to eventually wander into the world of the sentinels perhaps by dimension hopping without knowledge of where he would end upon, only wishing to satiate his bloodthirst against demons, eventually leading to the events of 2016-eternal and to the revelation that DoomGuy is the creation of Darvoth/VEGA(Father), The Slayer as he is known now was probably cast away across dimensions as a sort of preventative contingency against the dark lord or a consequence of the Maykyrs taking over.
if memory doesn't fail me ( although i may be misremembering or misattributing ) Carmack once said that "all wads are Cannon" in their own way, so Doom lore is up to the players ultimately.
Excellent video btw, it was an entertaining watch!
me personally, i just consider the doom 3 version of Doomguy as a separate person all together.
to me Doomguy is the one who was in Doom, Doom 2, Doom 64, Doom 2016 and Doom Eternal.
Doom 2 is a direct continuation of Doom 1 through visual story telling in level design, you see the end screen of Doom 1 in episode 3 or 4 and the skybox is the same for the first level of 2. If you consider the story of 2 it has the most retcons, I'd like to believe due to censorship such as calling the demons aliens and such making it much more convoluted. There's no reason the story of 1-2-64 don't connect when from a gameplay perspective you're pretty much the same marine, in the end of 2 the marine tries to remain optimistic and focus on rebuilding humanity but obviously come 64 he's deeply traumatized by his war with hell, and thus continues his fight against whatever remains to avenge his family and Daisy resulting in him deciding to truly stick to his guns and wage war against hell until his end. Doom 2016 and Eternal whether you like it or not are continuations of this story where at the end of the NightDive 64 port, he gets sent to a parallel universe/dimension (2016 universe) in which the events of the first 2 games play out differently as Doomguy is working for the gods now and the Doomguy from this parallel universe is (spoiler alert) basically Satan.There's no reason to make this story more convoluted than it already is by introducing the concept of multiple marines that the story follows when it pretty clearly follows one dude, the player, the Doom marine on his one track mind of stopping hell at all costs.
The second guy on the cover is Doom 2, obviously
Ok i play Doom for 500 years and I never saw the second doom guy in the red pixels
In the next Doom game after DA there should be a multiversal Doomguy Society.
As far as the modern canon goes, it’s probably best to take the manuals with a grain of salt, changing aspects of their backstories as needed to keep continuity.
I'd rather take the modern canon with a grain of salt. You're telling me they had decades to create a coherent story, and there's STILL contradictions?
I absolutely love all your videos
i like to headcanon that final doom is canon
my original headcanon was that doom 2 lead into final doom then 64
but since watching this video my headcanon is that the doom 2 guy goes into tnt then plutonia while OG doom guy goes into 64 and becomes the slayer
The ultimate superhero who saves the world from eternal damnation multiple times through benevolent wrath, wielding several guns of different powers and even has a guardian angel beside him.
CRITICISM BELOW CONTAINS MORE SPOILERS FOR MODERN DOOM GAMES:
Also please, I don’t know if you have, but I noticed that you have a lack of regard towards the Codex entries for Doom (2016) and Eternal. They give clarification on Doomguy/Slayer’s past and explain why things seem what they seem to be. In Titan’s Realm in Doom (2016) there are testament panels with the mark of the slayer. More info is given there. A part 2 is definitely needed within June 2025, once people have become situated with Doom: The Dark Ages. (Doom: The Dark Ages takes place after Doom 64, might I add. There is a mistake within one of the Eternal flashbacks, as one of the Hell Priests show his classic helmet and not 64’s which is strange, but that may be because of Hugo directly showing that Doomguy from the classic games and 2016/Eternal’s Doom Slayer is the same person.) Also again, I recommend giving most, if not all Codex entries you’ve picked up in Doom (2016) and Eternal a deep dive.
I'm not reading the codex entries unless there is MASSIVE demand for it. I don't like Doom 2016's and Eternal's story, it barely has anything to do with Doom anymore and just bores me. It's not a bad story, just not what I personally care about.
@@GermanPeter I understand not being much of a story person, that’s fine. But if you made this video, then why were the codex and Slayer testaments left out? They give insights to not only about the environments and monsters, but also Doom Slayer as well.
Because it's entirely too much work, and ultimately it's not a video about who the Doom Slayer is, but who Doom GUY is. I can always follow up on it, but I didn't want to waste my time reading all the entries, only to learn maybe 1-2 new details that don't really affect anything. The important parts of the Slayer are told in the game itself without the player needing to read further into anything anyway.
2016 and Eternal's base game story I thought were pretty good, but when The Ancient Gods Part 1 gave Hell an origin and made it not THE Christian Hell I started to care way less, and by the time The Ancient Gods Part 2 rolled around I just checked out of the story entirely. It just became Warhammer 40k but way stupider.
Didn’t Hugo Martin confirm that all titles are canon in a sort of multiverse? Seems to me like id are doing the same expanded universe thing as every franchise nowadays.
I've already talked about what I think about people changing the canon decades after the fact.
@@GermanPeter Would it have been better if the newer games just didn’t exist?
The missing piece is Quake 3. It actually does have a story. Some alien guys at the start of history have kidnapped the greatest warriors in history and are making them fight for some reason. Among the warriors are two guys wearing the typical uniform of Doom Guy: Phobos and Doom. And actually it makes the story more confusing. Here is Phobos' biography from the manual: "An experienced veteran, he led the invasion of the demon-haunted tunnels of Phobos. There, he was betrayed by superiors who thought they could learn more from watching him die than by studying his reports." He's the guy from Doom Episode 1, and was spirited away upon death to the Arena Eternal. The other guy who wears a suit similar to Doom Guy is named Doom.
So here’s my overly convoluted timeline: Phobos fights through Phobos base and is eventually killed. A different marine also on the base ends up in Hell and fights his way through back to Earth, which is now full of demons. They are both at some point whisked away to the Arena Eternal, becoming Phobos and Doom.
That’s at the start of the timeline, so there’s another cycle of history. Again the UAC opens a gate to Hell on Phobos and a lone marine fights his way through similar but not canonical events to original Doom, but with an ending that lines up with Doom 2. Then Doom 2 happens.
It’s unclear exactly where Doom 64 falls in this, and the guy from that could be Doom, the guy from Doom 2, it could be a different similar person who fought off a Hell invasion in another cycle of history. Whoever that is, the protagonist of Doom 64 clearly goes on to be the Doom Slayer in yet another cycle of history.
The crux of all this is there are many Doom Guys. They are ALL the Doom Guy, but not all Doom Guys are Phobos, or Doom or the Doom Slayer. Because every time you boot up Doom or Doom 2 or Doom 64 or Doom 3 or Doom (2016) or Doom Eternal or Final Doom or any of the weird spinoff games YOU are the Doom Guy. You are the person behind the visor. You are the one shouting, “Rip and tear, rip and tear your guts, you’re huge so you have huge guts,” and that’s beautiful.
Actually I'm pretty sure you DO fight a cyberdemon in the downtown map if you're playing ultra-violence
Multiplayer-only.
3:45 I'm sure you've been told this hair splitting fact already, but there are indeed two marines, behind Doomguy. Not one. The one on the left is the one you mentioned, but there is one on the right, being gibbed by the Pinky Demon.
The one getting gibbed could also just be a zombieman. Infighting is also part of Doom, after all.
In my head I never thought of the idea of identifying myself as the space marine even when I played Doom95 as a kid, I knew damn well the guy had his own character arc as soon as I saw his dead rabbit and him picking it up at the end of Thy Flesh Consumed, he seeks a motivation to kill demons and save Earth from the invasion, that's Doomguy for me. As for Doom 3 and Resurrection of Evil, it feels more like it's own separate universe where you're in the skin of completely random survivors that happen to share the same fate as Doomguy in the original 1993 game, the whole theme of these games is more in the line of a survival horror than an FPS with slight nods to an Action RPG system.
5:14 Correction: There is a presence of one Cyberdemon in MAP13: Downtown, however this is only tied to multiplayer settings on co-op play which may be the inspiration for the cover art and title screen (it still bothers me that the title screen isn't adjusted to match the original artwork, the Cyberdemon's metallic attachments are swapped and I hardly ever see people complaining about this).