People today dont understand how tense the situation was between Libya and the U.S. then. Just four years earlier, Doc Brown, a U.S. citizen, had stolen plutonium from the Libyans to power his time machine.
I agree. I'm sure our military tried evasive manuevers before having to fire. You could hear the audio. So with no radar the mirrored the evasions of the US f14s?
@@michaelhawker2642 As they say. "Many a true word said in jest" It would be interesting to see each nations kill ratios. The USAF lost quite a few aircraft in the Korean and Vietnam wars. The Isrealis have been in quite a few conflicts with it's neighbours too.
@@crazybrit-nasafan yeah..no. I garuntee you we lost far fewer aircraft in vietnam then the enemy. Especially if a 1 to 13 kill ratio was considered a bad thing at one point.
I saw an F-14 at an airshow in Eau Claire WI back in the '80s. Most amazing aircraft performance I've ever seen, from an airplane that was absolutely huge.
One of the best ever. An amazing aircraft that fulfilled every mission type it was tasked with. It would still be a formidable aircraft today, but it's downfall was an incredibly high maintenance cost per hour flown.
The F-14’s ARE NOT descending to confuse the enemies radar with the ocean clutter - they are descending so that the powerful radars are looking up with no clutter & their missiles will have a better chance of hitting their targets with no clutter.
Andy Aim They were flying the F-14A models with the AN/AWG-9 radar which had the old ass analog computer. It could look down and shoot down but it wasn’t very good it was better to look up and shoot up.
@@elymayer4860 Agreed but once a target starts notching pulse Doppler isn’t good due to target having a zero relative speed & you lose the target. You can try to re-acquire the target by decreasing MCL (Mainlobe Clutter Filter) which you can only do so much before the ground start showing up as multiple targets. So if you’re higher than a target you wanna dive below it and then look up at it.
@@jamielancaster01 all well and good. But it doesn’t change the fact that you have 14 does not have the problem losing targets in surface clutter. There may be other tactical reasons for going low. But surface clutter isn’t one of them
Well, if they weren't hostile, they were extremely dumb. Flying toward a battle group....flying toward two navy Tomcats at that time in history in that area. Not real wise.
Thank you for the clearest description of what happened that day. There are other videos containing the audio from the action but they lack the clarity which your video provides. Well done.
In 1974 while stationed aboard the U.S.S. Assurance (AG-521) as an Ocean Systems Technician (OT), we took a little cruise to the Mediterranean, where life got very interesting. After leaving our home port of Charleston SC, we had made a port of call at Bermuda, and then Ponta Delgada in the Azores before entering the Med. The entire purpose of the ship (an old WW-II minesweeper which had been converted into an intelligence gathering platform), was to detect Russian nuclear submarines via a Towed Array Sound Survellience system known as TASS, which we would deploy once on station. It drove the Russians nuts. We would find them, and then Airdales in P3 Orion A/C would come out to drop sono-bouys on top of them to pinpoint their precise location. It was like playing hide-and-seek on a grand scale. After crossing the big pond, the day finally came that we were to enter the Med, and in a chessboard move to try and out-slick the Russkies, we de-energized our radar before entering the Straits of Gibraltar thinking maybe they wouldn't notice us. Fat chance. It was broad daylight, a beautiful day, fair winds and following seas when we steamed into the Med, and once well out of sight from land, we reeled out our underwater detection equipment, and began conducting operations. All was well. We detected a surface ship over the visual horizon which had been shadowing us on a parallel course, but it wasn't particularly alarming, and as evening fell, those crew who were not on duty gathered on the fan tail to enjoy a movie. The mood was light, and we were all relaxed and full from our all you can eat steak and lobster dinner, which was the norm with a compliment of only 80 or so crewmen. It was a wooden ship, and we were iron men. As the movie concluded at about 2100, the surface ship which had been shadowing us suddenly went full speed ahead, and turned to a collision course with us, bearing down as if they meant to cut us in half. Our bridge crew was sounding the horn, the signalman was frantically flashing the light, and at the last possible moment, the Russkies cut hard to port narrowly missing us so closely, that we were awash in their wake. That was just within the first hours of our arrival into the Med, with many other harrowing encounters and adventures to follow. I wouldn't have traded it for anything in the world.
This was a significant event in my life, just over 30 years ago. At the time, I was commanding the closest U.S. and NATO bases to the incident on the Italian island of Lampedusa. Thirty-three months earlier in April 1986, prior to my assumption of command, Libya had fired two Scud missiles at my base. We were in a constant state of readiness for further attacks. A few minutes after the event, I received a STU-II call from 6th Fleet Intelligence at La Madelena, advising me of the incident and other relevant facts. At that precise moment, I had a large, C-53 Sea Stallion helicopter from Sigonella, Sicily preparing to take off from my base, direct flight to Tel Aviv. I had to make an immediate judgment call to ground the helicopter, and ordered the unarmed aircraft's commander to shut down. Had they taken off, their route would have taken them into very hostile airspace with no defenses. The A/C was furious at my order until I told him why I grounded him; he calmed down pretty quickly. There were a number of events through that night and over the next few days. We had recon aircraft flying constant circles over the base for several days, and NATO warships making pickets around Lampedusa and the other Pelagie Islands. We put the six-person crew of the helicopter up on our base for the night. We gave them a great meal, and despite the fact that I ordered THREATCON CHARLIE for the base, I think they managed to have a good time. They left late the following morning, but flew directly back to Sicily. I slept on a sofa in the wardroom to make my cabin available to the two women on the crew. Late that night, we had a little excitement when our external security forces, an Italian special forces team, decided to make an unannounced survey of our perimeter with all of their light off. It is to the great credit of Mike Loy and the other watchstanders that they didn't fire on the Italians but instead came to the wardroom and got me. The next evening, I got another call from 6th Fleet, advising me that Libyan leader Col. Gadaffi had threatened my life and the life of the U.S. Navy officer in command at NAS Sigonella, Sicily. My response to that news was, "Couldn't I just invite Gadaffi over for coffee and talk about It?" (Yes, I was kidding. You have to joke when you're told that the leader of a country has just threatened your life. But I don't think the 6th Fleet duty officer knew what to make of my question. 😎)
Actually, this wasn't 1st time, Libyan's, messed with the Kennedy, September, 11th, 1980, & 20th, President "Carter" ordered, CV-67, to cross the line of "DEATH", It was, dropped, from entry,in Big John's Cruise Log book "Classified"
Personally, I always got a kick out of the fact that Nikita Khrushchev apparently did want to visit Disneyland on his US visit in September 1959. The visit was denied because they felt they couldn't guarantee security for him. Walt Disney bemoaned the lost publicity... ( => Not really but he would have gotten a kick out of hosting the biggest communist in the world at the time in his theme park. Disney was no communist but he was a showman!) His son Sergei, who was an engineer who worked in rocket and ICBM design, lives in the US. He and his wife are naturalized US citizens and tell some VERY INTERESTING stories from the Cold War! Life is stranger than fiction!
@@charletonzimmerman4205 I frankly don't know what your problem is and I DON'T CARE. If you want to parse and redefine terms, GO AHEAD. Just don't be surprised if they get annoyed by you! I was trying to add something to the conversation. What you're doing is something else!!! BLOCKED!
@@elbenja0088 As someone who grew up on ace combat, I used to love it for what it was. It was a fantastic arcade game about my favourite fighter jets with a good story. I sadly haven't enjoyed the modern ace combats as much as the ones from when I was a kid. I will say though that if you're into modern jet combat at all (and don't mind dumping some money) DCS is a million times better than ace combat for the feeling of actually being in the cockpit.
Not really. F-14 vs. MiG-23 at that range is very anti-climatic. Especially given the fact that an E-2 Hawkeye was observing the MiG-23's and giving information to the F-14's. The MiGs never even saw the F-14's.
@@seamorgh21 Agreed and let's not get on the realistic part.......given how the MIgs were pretty much non maneuvering vs. a Cat getting onto their tail. Nevermind that at 6:44 the Mig-23 is about 100 metres off the Cat's nose........way too close for a Sidewinder launch (Min-range of 0.3 Nautical miles or roughly 550 metres. And at 5:24 the Cat launches an Aim-120 AMRAAM, which the F-14 never used in fleet service............and at the time of that gulf of Sidra that missile wasn't even in service yet.............it came into service in 1991 post-Desert Storm. You can ascertain which missile it is by checking the fins next to the center of the missile, the ones on the Sparrow are much larger than the ones for the AMRAAM. Also on the AMRAAM those are slightly smaller than the rear fins, while those of the sparrow are larger than the rear fins. Also the AIM-120 has a smokeless motor, the AIM-7 does not. Launching Platform in a footage also is an F-15 eagle, looks a bit like Lock On/Flaming Cliffs 1 footage. As evidenced by 6:18 because that is the Frame of the F-15 HUD, when it was still 2D. Also no notching after the launch? Aka turning off to the left or right in a bid to reduce closure and deny a missile shot. That thing is instinctual for everyone in a combat flight sim, which points out rather strongly that the author never was in an eviroment where his targets shot back.
@@batangfirst5993 : There were no Russian fighter pilots in 1989. Only Soviet fighter pilots. ;) Seriously, though, it would depend on the circumstances - but I read the Soviets were very strict on controlling air intercepts from the ground. Their fighter pilots were ordered around like airliner pilots. Climb to this altitude, turn to this heading, increase to this speed, etc, etc, etc. The pilots apparently were granted very little leeway to make decisions on their own, at least not until an engagement had actually begun. Great way to lose the initiative in a fight.
I still remember those radio calls because they played them over and over on the TV news when this happened. I think our guys were expecting the Libyans to kind of check us out from standoff range, but never expected to actually have to fight them. As a side note, Libya at this time had a nuclear weapons program that Qaddafi later gave up in order to be part of the UN (getting his scientists killed as spies in the process). It was so advanced it caught us completely off guard, and the TV news only showed boxes instead of the actual equipment.
at least 50% of his missiles actually worked, All of mine just dropped or flew off chasing squirrels. people blame the f 4,s, a very fine, capable bird. just our guns were loaded with dud,s.
@Frogman Smith What I was referring to is we weren't shooting at people, we were shooting at machines. When we were in ground attack, we were shooting people. Of course you know people are dying, but if you dwell on it, you should turn in your wings and fly a desk, there's no shame in that. War sucks, as it must.
I love your attitude but they are not old! LOL... Still the fastest fighter to date and nothing even comes close. Mach 2.32 with GE engines and airframe updates. Was stupid to get rid of them . Could have made them smaller and still be better than the FA-18 which I also worked on.
ered203 I don’t know, but when you listen to Cdr. Enwright, he sounded like he’s soon gonna shit his pants, so it seems like the situation wasn’t such an easy win as you want to point out 😂
They were supposed to form up with two other Libyan planes and their ground controllers identified the Tomcats as those two planes. So they kept redirecting them to the Tomcats everytime they turned away. After Lockerbie nobody in the Navy was going to give Libya the benefit of a doubt. Play stupid games and you'll win stupid prizes
Bet the Libyan guy in the control tower got his ass chewed for not telling his pilots that they were intercepting tomcats instead of their flight crew.@@glennchartrand5411
The lead F-14 here, Gypsy 207, is the F-14 on display at the Udvar-Hazy location of the National Air and Space Museum in Washington DC. It was converted to a F-14D in the early 90's and continued to serve with VF-31 Tomcatters, and VF-101 Grim Reapers before retiring with the rest of the F-14's in 2006.
@David A Same here. I was probably just out of HS and I can't recall hearing about this incident, even though I was a bit of a avgeek even then. Really strange unless the news didn't report it for various reasons.
Hey Guys, the real footage of this dogfight ,( i.e, black and white -camera / cockpit and radio recordings) is posted here on RUclips , even though its one of those blurry- military recordings , it's worth watching , super intense , I'll try to find it again to post the link in this thread if I can get it again ...
In 1989, Pat Sajak had his own late night talk show. I remember him making jokes about the Libyans were looking for their fighters as he showed video of swimmers diving under water.
There is a similar video on RUclips of the '81 Gulf of Sidra incident. Not sure who made it, but its almost identical to this one. Check it out, you won't be disappointed.
The lesson here is obvious. Don’t ever point your MIG at a Tomcat unless you intend to pull the trigger, and if you intend to pull the trigger, you had better make sure that yours is bigger and faster than his.
The RIO Cmdr.Conelly said that coz he didn't expect for his pilot to launch a Sparrow. They were arguing earlier to use a fox-2 (Sidewinder) rather than a fox-1 ( Sparrow) So it caught him by surprise when his pilot launched a sparrow, prompting him to say "Ah Jesus."
I've thought the same since that audio was first released. Despite the successful kills in the end, it's not exactly a by-the-book engagement. There are a few teachable moments there.
Yep, he did not interpret his scope(s) well. When you turn your jet is is going to change the vector stick of the bogey/bandit and create the illusion of a change in aspect. There's no way the MiG drivers could have perceived the Tomcat turns and reacted so fast/ accurate. The DOD covered the Navy's butt with those statements. Note how the front seater had a different opinion of events and was surprised when a missile came off his jet!
Commander Connelly’s: “Now wait a minute” and “oh jeeezus” might be the most relatable moments of the whole story. It’s almost like “definitely didn’t expect to be in a fight, but here we are” type of thing.
For future reference, Alec, the aircraft were making jinking maneuvers, not jinxing maneuvers. Otherwise, nicely done. If you perhaps thought on it to make this much effort on a combat mission in FS2004, you could look into doing future air combat videos through Digital Combat Simulator.
@@Jen-X333 When an aircraft jinks, it's performing quick and unexpected maneuvers either in a manner to defeat a missile or in this case, readjust to an intercept course with the F-14s.
I remember this from when I was a child. Didn't really understand it like I do as an adult. Badass pilots executing their training. Awesome job. God bless our troops
It appears they thought the Tomcats were two planes they were supposed to form up with. So they kept turning towards them. That was a big mistake. Of course you have to wonder , what two other planes (near an American Carrier) were they supposed to meet up with? Libya was probably just looking to harass and annoy the USS Kennedy , but after Lockerbie that was not something the USN was going to allow. In all likelihood the Mig pilots were recovered by Libya and promptly executed for losing two planes.
In the case of the MiG 23 it doesn't matter who trained them or how skilled they were. It was a dismal airplane with little capability for fighting air to air against any worthy opponent. It performed absolutely horribly anywhere it's been used outside of a low-level bombing platform. The Soviets scammed their customers into believing it could be used as an interceptor while the Soviets would never have attempted it themselves. It's a straight and level bomb truck with a slow mode and a fast mode. And not much of a bomb truck either.
The actual video with audio from the tomcats is available on the internet, I believe here on RUclips. All you have to do is a search if you want to see it.
The committees can say what they want: they weren't in the cockpits jousting with those Libyans. If those pilots judged that they were threatened, nobody can't blame them to defend themselves.
yes you absolutely can, anybody can look at the evidence and judge them however they want. It could be just as easily claimed that they were too rash as it can be claimed it was self-defense.
Amy, you have such an American mind. Why do we get patrol their region with our death machines? Imagine if libya sent planes off the coast of usa and shot down our planes in the same way? Would that be "justified?"
ScoopityDoopity well I guess it would be somehwhat expensive. But I'm pretty sure he has spent thousands on fs9 at this point. Heatblur animations f14 is 59.99. But infinitely more detailed and realistic.
Great video. The only problem is the F14s wings were swept back to intercept. This is one of the reasons the F14 was abandoned. Too expensive to maintain.
The F-14 was expensive to maintain because politicians refused to fund even basic upgrades right from the start, then proceeded to cancel the major upgrade program that would have resolved many of the maintenance issues while bringing the F-14 into the modern age.
I remembered hearing about this when I was a Senior in high school in that some of my classmates compared it to the movie "Top Gun". Libya then went to the UN to complain about the incident and to pass a resolution to the Security Council to condemn the US, but the US showed the photos to the members of the Security Council to show that the Migs were armed. So it resulted in the US, UK and France vetoing the resolution. But as for the Mig-23s, I guess the creator did not know about the insignia carried by Libyan Arab Republic Air Force(LARAF) aircraft back then? They carried the green circle and the green Libyan flag on the tail.
@al Jaberty ok. Just because congress says something doesnt mean it is accurate or true. I think that is clearly self apparent. Furthermore. You dont need your on board radar to fire IR missiles, and a tactic often used by operators of Soviet equipment and doctrine is heavy reliance on GCI, to get into a WEZ and then turn on their radars. 5 turns into me, accelerating, descending, etc are all evidence of an intercept, picture "shaping" and WEZ management. Anyone who says otherwise doesnt know what theyre talking about. It can ALSO be evidence of a misunderstanding and attempted rejoin on your own friendlies. Which, truth data shows it was. All Im saying is that doesnt change the response by the F14s, who reasonably believed they were being intercepted. You wont find a single (good) fighter pilot in the world who wouldnt fire in this situation. They had all ROE met and were well inside self defense criteria. This is a fact. Anyone can say otherwise but ask someone who does this for a living and they will agree.
@al Jaberty you dont know what you're talking about. They were well within international airspace/waters. Im referring to self defense of for the fighters, which applies in international airspace/waters. Unless you think their claim to the entore gulf is valid. Freedom of movement exercises are completely legal and when you are intercepted in international airspace by potentially hostile fighters that have PID, POO, PEI, LOF, and HA/HI met...that equals cleared hot. I do this for a living man. I know what I'm talking about. We had every right to be there.
The F-14's AWG-9 radar had INCREDIBLE look-down shoot-down capabilities. Once they married it to the AN/APG radar from the F-15E Strike Eagle to make the AWG-10 radar that was used in the F-14D, NOTHING could have stood much of a chance, if ANY, against it.
Good video. However it would look much better if you used DCS instead of the older MS flight sims. It’s free to download and you can use the mission editor to gain footage without needing to pay for the various modules. Also you showed an AIM-7 Sparrow being fired at the end instead of the sidewinder which would be appropriate for the fox 2 call.
Because it’s easy to second guess a high stress, fast paced situation when they have months to analyze piles of information in their air conditioned office
@@PJMontoya Aspin was not second-guessing-- he affirmed the correctness of the pilots' decisions. He did mention that the MiG's made slight turns that the Tomcat pilots could probably not judge well from their vantage. Also, introducing the possibility of error tends to defuse the subsequent international tension. By not activating their radars, the Libyan pilots may (maybe, possibly, could be) have been trying to avoid conflict despite their orders. Or, maybe trying to sneak up on the Tomcats-- who knows?
What was completely left out of this was the battle group commander, an Admiral (callsign AB) saying weapons yellow and tight, which means DO NOT FIRE. I was there when it happened. Why was that radio transmission left out. I was there and heard it loud and clear.
I remember hearing about this on a news radio station. The announcer said "Two Navy Tomcats clawed two Libyan MiGs out of the sky." Much respect, Navy.
You'd think the Tomcat pilots trigger happy until you're in the seat of a high-speed metal coffin with two possibly hostile fighters running you down. Either you shoot first and live or get shot at first and pray you don't die.
@@FyodorUshakovSuka they felt even attacked by an iranian passenger plane :D and the most ironic thing the captain of that ship even got a medal for that because he was in a "fight".
When this happened, my bedroom was decked out in jet fighter posters and models. Top Gun and Iron Eagle had me really wanting to be a fighter pilot. I was driving to high school when the radio DJ screwed up and said the Migs had shot down the F14's!! I was so devastated all day! Thankfully, I learned it was the other way around later.
Every. Single. Time. I will take the emotional/stress-related reactions of a Military Pilot, and use THAT to guide me, in whether engagement was warranted or not, over a damn Politician in Washington. Until a Politician straps his ass into a fighter jet, then goes head to head with a MiG? Nothing will change. Btw, while Aspin was a systems analyst in the Army for two years? It didn't help him understand the military nor combat- yet, he eventually made it to Secretary of Defense, amazingly enough. He was also BIG on downsizing our Military. However, after our Troops in Somalia were wiped out, because of a lack of military...everything, he was forced to resign. Good Riddance. While he semi-reached a correct decision in this case? It was proof, once again, if the man having nor morals or values, that he would stand on. As with the mass majority of Politicians? He would "believe" and make decisions, based on the "Political Winds" at the time. A truly imbecilic way to govern, when American lives are on the line.
Interesting commentary :"When this happened I was acting as the JFK’s Main Propulsion Assistant, 2nd ranking Officer in the Engineering Department, and I was also the designated Engineering Officer of the Watch for General Quarters (battle stations). To my knowledge they were not only not reprimanded, they were awarded Distinguished Flying Crosses. This has always stuck in my craw a bit since my dad was a Marine Aviator in WW2 and saw much combat, lost crew members and managed to return a few badly damaged planes to the base or “jeep carrier” that his TBF Avenger was launched from, and he only had a few Air Medals to show for his service. Despite that, those Pilots and RIOs on the JFK did exactly what they had to do. Although they were far superior to the Libyans, inaction on their part could have had a tragic result for them. What people do not realize is that we actually set up the Libyans for this deliberately. I don't have any specific knowledge of the orders given, but from my personal experience leading up to this, it would be apparent this was the case. We were on an easterly course to a port call in Haifa, Israel. At midnight before the shoot down, I called the Pilot House to get permission to take control of the shafts for Engineering Casualty Control Drills. This was a nightly routine when not conducting flight ops. I was told by the Navigator “Sorry John, not tonight, we are turning South and need to make best speed for the Libyan FIR”. Instead of drills, I just stayed up with mid-watch in main control and went to bed a few hours earlier than normal. At 0900 I surprised everybody in my office by showing up there. My Master Chief asked me why we had no drill critique sheets and told him that we had not run drills because we were “heading down south to shoot down some Libyans”. Of course, my staff thought that I was pulling their chains. At noon, I hit my bunk again to get my bio-rhythms back in sync. Then I heard the Bos’ns whistle and I thought I heard the Captain say we had just shot down two Libyan Bombers. I was somewhat shocked thinking that they might be trying to bomb us and had not heard General Quarters called away. I immediately called Main Control and the Chief Engineer answered. I asked if we were at GQ and he said no, but I needed to come down there right away. I asked him why weren’t we at GQ if we had Libyan Bombers on the way? He informed me that they were Libyan “Floggers”(MIG-23 Fighters). Oh? So no worries then? Well that was pretty much it, except everybody trying to figure out what was going on since no one was told before or after. We finally got some detail from an old CNN video clip two weeks later. People at home knew more than we did. We definitely were provoking the Libyans. We knew how long it would take them to respond to an intrusion into what they considered to be their air space. We were running a “chainsaw” air patrol with the F-14s. Basically the flights were timed to have two planes on station returning as their replacements were arriving. Typically the senior officers in the Squadron who would be flying that day would be first up. On this day it was the XO and Ops Officer. My guess is that they wanted the action and knew that the first sortie would not see any due to the Libyan response time. So they delayed and went up on the second flight. What exactly was going on would have to be told by those directly involved. We will never know if the Libyans would have attacked our planes or ship. None of the aircraft involved had ground attack ordinance. The Libyans were most likely trying to get visual confirmation of what was approaching them. This made it necessary to respond to each jink by our planes to continue to close to visual range. Essentially dooming themselves to getting shot. You would have to have one of our fighter jocks explain what the alternative might have been for the Libyans to accomplish their mission and not get shot down. PAN AM 103 had recently been blown out of the sky by a Libyan terrorist, that might have had something to do with the whole episode." www.quora.com/Two-F-14-Tomcat-fighters-shot-down-two-Libyan-fighters-in-1989-I-was-told-they-were-reprimanded-by-the-military-for-violating-the-rules-of-engagement-Is-that-true
It is "jinking" not "jinxing" BTW - FWIW "jinked" not "jinxed" Otherwise good job - the reason the first "Fox One" failed is because at the low altitude, the thicker air limits the range of the missile - they were simply too far away and in too thick air density - not enough range at that altitude to reach the target
People today dont understand how tense the situation was between Libya and the U.S. then. Just four years earlier, Doc Brown, a U.S. citizen, had stolen plutonium from the Libyans to power his time machine.
Darrin Nunyah i wouldn’t be surprised if some dumbass just robbed another country for a cardboard time machine 😂.
Had us in the first half, not gon’ lie...
I agree. I'm sure our military tried evasive manuevers before having to fire. You could hear the audio. So with no radar the mirrored the evasions of the US f14s?
It was the fake bomb made out of pinball machine parts that really ticked off the Libyans.
The US sold weapon ready uranium to lybia!
It's amazing how low-res all the planes were back then, before they had HD aircraft...
Haha lol
You forgot the part where he fly's upside down and takes a picture of the other pilot.
" you know the finger "
@@alexgrime1880
"I hate it when it does that."
@@mrgone658 Takes my breath away!
“Watch the birdie” 🖕🏻😂
Me after flipping and taking the pic: “I should be a photographer!”
Why did the Libyian navy switch their ships to glass bottoms? So they could keep track of their air force!
One American plane was shoot down by libyan army...we dont say all the truth
@@toukabrinizar3268 Whatever helps you sleep at night Ahmed. You might want to loosen that hat.
Yeah easy to shoot people not even fighting back.
Long live the Great Libyan Arab Jamahiriya!
I do miss seeing the F-14 Tomcat on carrier decks.
6:57-"I can't, I ain't got a f@!*king tone!"
6:42 “SHOOT HIM!!”
The United States military. The worlds leading distributor of MIG parts.
Crazy Brit: I guess not a lot of people appreciate just how good that one was.
@@michaelhawker2642 As they say. "Many a true word said in jest" It would be interesting to see each nations kill ratios. The USAF lost quite a few aircraft in the Korean and Vietnam wars. The Isrealis have been in quite a few conflicts with it's neighbours too.
And air bus...and human parts.
And parts 737 max
@@crazybrit-nasafan yeah..no. I garuntee you we lost far fewer aircraft in vietnam then the enemy. Especially if a 1 to 13 kill ratio was considered a bad thing at one point.
Was laughing at how one F-14 was always in full afterburner but never went any faster than the other F-14.
...and how their variable geometry wings were always in the slowest speed setting except for the non-afterburning one did a few maneuvers.
f 16 has two engines in gta does,nt it
dmt3339 lol ya I noticed that too
The other one was equipped with that supercruise technology.
And the animation of the first plan shot down was a helicopter. :)
I like how you just started the "Air Combat" series!
Hector Zambrano air combat?
Hector Zambrano nevermind
I saw an F-14 at an airshow in Eau Claire WI back in the '80s. Most amazing aircraft performance I've ever seen, from an airplane that was absolutely huge.
One of the best ever. An amazing aircraft that fulfilled every mission type it was tasked with. It would still be a formidable aircraft today, but it's downfall was an incredibly high maintenance cost per hour flown.
The F-14’s ARE NOT descending to confuse the enemies radar with the ocean clutter - they are descending so that the powerful radars are looking up with no clutter & their missiles will have a better chance of hitting their targets with no clutter.
Look down shoot down?
Andy Aim They were flying the F-14A models with the AN/AWG-9 radar which had the old ass analog computer. It could look down and shoot down but it wasn’t very good it was better to look up and shoot up.
The AWG-9 can operate in pulse, and pulse-Doppler modes. Surface clutter isn’t much of an issue for pulse Doppler.
@@elymayer4860 Agreed but once a target starts notching pulse Doppler isn’t good due to target having a zero relative speed & you lose the target. You can try to re-acquire the target by decreasing MCL (Mainlobe Clutter Filter) which you can only do so much before the ground start showing up as multiple targets. So if you’re higher than a target you wanna dive below it and then look up at it.
@@jamielancaster01 all well and good. But it doesn’t change the fact that you have 14 does not have the problem losing targets in surface clutter. There may be other tactical reasons for going low. But surface clutter isn’t one of them
Well, if they weren't hostile, they were extremely dumb. Flying toward a battle group....flying toward two navy Tomcats at that time in history in that area. Not real wise.
Jake Glassmoyer
Play stupid games win stupid prizes
Typical western arrogance, your country and empire is crumbling as we speak
@@starscream4379 haha chill out.
Star Scream
Hahahaha oh noooo
darkness
@@starscream4379 Who are you comparing that too?
Thank you for the clearest description of what happened that day. There are other videos containing the audio from the action but they lack the clarity which your video provides. Well done.
Too bad it’s wrong. In fact, it’s a lie.
In 1974 while stationed aboard the U.S.S. Assurance (AG-521) as an Ocean Systems Technician (OT), we took a little cruise to the Mediterranean, where life got very interesting.
After leaving our home port of Charleston SC, we had made a port of call at Bermuda, and then Ponta Delgada in the Azores before entering the Med. The entire purpose of the ship (an old WW-II minesweeper which had been converted into an intelligence gathering platform), was to detect Russian nuclear submarines via a Towed Array Sound Survellience system known as TASS, which we would deploy once on station. It drove the Russians nuts. We would find them, and then Airdales in P3 Orion A/C would come out to drop sono-bouys on top of them to pinpoint their precise location. It was like playing hide-and-seek on a grand scale.
After crossing the big pond, the day finally came that we were to enter the Med, and in a chessboard move to try and out-slick the Russkies, we de-energized our radar before entering the Straits of Gibraltar thinking maybe they wouldn't notice us. Fat chance.
It was broad daylight, a beautiful day, fair winds and following seas when we steamed into the Med, and once well out of sight from land, we reeled out our underwater detection equipment, and began conducting operations. All was well. We detected a surface ship over the visual horizon which had been shadowing us on a parallel course, but it wasn't particularly alarming, and as evening fell, those crew who were not on duty gathered on the fan tail to enjoy a movie. The mood was light, and we were all relaxed and full from our all you can eat steak and lobster dinner, which was the norm with a compliment of only 80 or so crewmen. It was a wooden ship, and we were iron men. As the movie concluded at about 2100, the surface ship which had been shadowing us suddenly went full speed ahead, and turned to a collision course with us, bearing down as if they meant to cut us in half. Our bridge crew was sounding the horn, the signalman was frantically flashing the light, and at the last possible moment, the Russkies cut hard to port narrowly missing us so closely, that we were awash in their wake.
That was just within the first hours of our arrival into the Med, with many other harrowing encounters and adventures to follow. I wouldn't have traded it for anything in the world.
More!!!
Yes, what other tales?
please tell more such tales!!
This was a significant event in my life, just over 30 years ago.
At the time, I was commanding the closest U.S. and NATO bases to the incident on the Italian island of Lampedusa. Thirty-three months earlier in April 1986, prior to my assumption of command, Libya had fired two Scud missiles at my base. We were in a constant state of readiness for further attacks.
A few minutes after the event, I received a STU-II call from 6th Fleet Intelligence at La Madelena, advising me of the incident and other relevant facts. At that precise moment, I had a large, C-53 Sea Stallion helicopter from Sigonella, Sicily preparing to take off from my base, direct flight to Tel Aviv.
I had to make an immediate judgment call to ground the helicopter, and ordered the unarmed aircraft's commander to shut down. Had they taken off, their route would have taken them into very hostile airspace with no defenses. The A/C was furious at my order until I told him why I grounded him; he calmed down pretty quickly.
There were a number of events through that night and over the next few days. We had recon aircraft flying constant circles over the base for several days, and NATO warships making pickets around Lampedusa and the other Pelagie Islands.
We put the six-person crew of the helicopter up on our base for the night. We gave them a great meal, and despite the fact that I ordered THREATCON CHARLIE for the base, I think they managed to have a good time. They left late the following morning, but flew directly back to Sicily.
I slept on a sofa in the wardroom to make my cabin available to the two women on the crew. Late that night, we had a little excitement when our external security forces, an Italian special forces team, decided to make an unannounced survey of our perimeter with all of their light off. It is to the great credit of Mike Loy and the other watchstanders that they didn't fire on the Italians but instead came to the wardroom and got me.
The next evening, I got another call from 6th Fleet, advising me that Libyan leader Col. Gadaffi had threatened my life and the life of the U.S. Navy officer in command at NAS Sigonella, Sicily. My response to that news was, "Couldn't I just invite Gadaffi over for coffee and talk about It?" (Yes, I was kidding. You have to joke when you're told that the leader of a country has just threatened your life. But I don't think the 6th Fleet duty officer knew what to make of my question. 😎)
Great story 👍😎
Actually, this wasn't 1st time, Libyan's, messed with the Kennedy, September, 11th, 1980, & 20th, President "Carter" ordered, CV-67, to cross the line of "DEATH", It was, dropped, from entry,in Big John's Cruise Log book "Classified"
Personally, I always got a kick out of the fact that Nikita Khrushchev apparently did want to visit Disneyland on his US visit in September 1959. The visit was denied because they felt they couldn't guarantee security for him. Walt Disney bemoaned the lost publicity... ( => Not really but he would have gotten a kick out of hosting the biggest communist in the world at the time in his theme park. Disney was no communist but he was a showman!)
His son Sergei, who was an engineer who worked in rocket and ICBM design, lives in the US. He and his wife are naturalized US citizens and tell some VERY INTERESTING stories from the Cold War!
Life is stranger than fiction!
@@AvengerII ??? "ColdWAR," with HOT NUKES"
@@charletonzimmerman4205 I frankly don't know what your problem is and I DON'T CARE.
If you want to parse and redefine terms, GO AHEAD. Just don't be surprised if they get annoyed by you!
I was trying to add something to the conversation. What you're doing is something else!!!
BLOCKED!
*_Now if only they made an Ace Combat game about this._*
Yeah, I'm wondering why isn't the MiG-23/27 in any AC game
Just Some Girl With A Mustache
Ace Combat is a crappy arcade game. DCS is where it’s at.
@@keirfarnum6811 And here we have someone who doesn't like Ace Combat just because "it's arcade"-
@@elbenja0088 As someone who grew up on ace combat, I used to love it for what it was. It was a fantastic arcade game about my favourite fighter jets with a good story. I sadly haven't enjoyed the modern ace combats as much as the ones from when I was a kid.
I will say though that if you're into modern jet combat at all (and don't mind dumping some money) DCS is a million times better than ace combat for the feeling of actually being in the cockpit.
Well the first missions in AC usually involves intercepting bogeys like AC5
I believe one of the US pilots was later killed in a training accident. Thanks for your service. RIP
No, he was from the 1981 incident.
I love how this new series is made in the same way as Air Disasters.
Its perfect. Has the history of the airframes at the end and all
Ateltoni34 fuck off roblox kid
AdamIsHere no need to get aggressive.
because all those events are nothing else than... THINK!
Well that raised my pulse...can't imagine the surge of adrenaline the pilots felt. Excellent video! I enjoyed this more than I expected.
My goodness, this was really nail biting scary and realistic. Thank you.
@@PervonHarke wooosh
Not really. F-14 vs. MiG-23 at that range is very anti-climatic. Especially given the fact that an E-2 Hawkeye was observing the MiG-23's and giving information to the F-14's. The MiGs never even saw the F-14's.
@@seamorgh21 Agreed and let's not get on the realistic part.......given how the MIgs were pretty much non maneuvering vs. a Cat getting onto their tail.
Nevermind that at 6:44 the Mig-23 is about 100 metres off the Cat's nose........way too close for a Sidewinder launch (Min-range of 0.3 Nautical miles or roughly 550 metres.
And at 5:24 the Cat launches an Aim-120 AMRAAM, which the F-14 never used in fleet service............and at the time of that gulf of Sidra that missile wasn't even in service yet.............it came into service in 1991 post-Desert Storm.
You can ascertain which missile it is by checking the fins next to the center of the missile, the ones on the Sparrow are much larger than the ones for the AMRAAM.
Also on the AMRAAM those are slightly smaller than the rear fins, while those of the sparrow are larger than the rear fins.
Also the AIM-120 has a smokeless motor, the AIM-7 does not.
Launching Platform in a footage also is an F-15 eagle, looks a bit like Lock On/Flaming Cliffs 1 footage.
As evidenced by 6:18 because that is the Frame of the F-15 HUD, when it was still 2D.
Also no notching after the launch? Aka turning off to the left or right in a bid to reduce closure and deny a missile shot.
That thing is instinctual for everyone in a combat flight sim, which points out rather strongly that the author never was in an eviroment where his targets shot back.
I wonder how they got this film footage, it's so clear
Hmmmm ArT..???? Really this footage is so clear ... Graphics
6:18 Hit that MiG-23 so hard it turned into a Helix!😬
Oh man...I laughed for 10 minutes on that comment!. Good catch.
bet you cant do that to Russian fighter Pilots
Inday Garutay Why not, please?
@@batangfirst5993 : There were no Russian fighter pilots in 1989. Only Soviet fighter pilots.
;)
Seriously, though, it would depend on the circumstances - but I read the Soviets were very strict on controlling air intercepts from the ground. Their fighter pilots were ordered around like airliner pilots. Climb to this altitude, turn to this heading, increase to this speed, etc, etc, etc. The pilots apparently were granted very little leeway to make decisions on their own, at least not until an engagement had actually begun. Great way to lose the initiative in a fight.
Tim Smith the soviets shut down an american pilot gary powers but no americans shut down a soviet pilots
I still remember those radio calls because they played them over and over on the TV news when this happened. I think our guys were expecting the Libyans to kind of check us out from standoff range, but never expected to actually have to fight them.
As a side note, Libya at this time had a nuclear weapons program that Qaddafi later gave up in order to be part of the UN (getting his scientists killed as spies in the process). It was so advanced it caught us completely off guard, and the TV news only showed boxes instead of the actual equipment.
Great Video as always Allec Joshua; the Communications, and the final scenes showing even the MIG 23. Thank You.
MAVERICK AND GOOSE//
You should do more air combat videos they're pretty good
"I dont have fuckng tone" 😂😁
at least 50% of his missiles actually worked, All of mine just dropped or flew off chasing squirrels.
people blame the f 4,s, a very fine, capable bird. just our guns were loaded with dud,s.
@@psycho.dad5252 f4?
@@killian9314
f 4 phantom ll yes.
the enemy had to worry about a dud falling on his head more than an actual shoot down.
@Frogman Smith
we were up there to kill machines, not people.
@Frogman Smith
What I was referring to is we weren't shooting at people, we were shooting at machines.
When we were in ground attack, we were shooting people. Of course you know people are dying, but if you dwell on it, you should turn in your wings and fly a desk, there's no shame in that. War sucks, as it must.
Left out the part where pilot says "Now let's get the hell out a here!"
lol yeah after the engagement they hit the deck and headed North. Didn't want to risk getting shot at by medium or long range SAMs
Also, they didn't any more missiles left to defend themselves.
@@captainnice9698 Didn't know that thanks.
Now do the USS liberty incident
We all know about the Liberty. We all know the details. You don't have to force the issue just because you're a Jewhater.
Awesome video. Love those old F-14s.
Yes Agreed!
The one and only. The greatest! "Anytime Baby!"
Best US fighter in my opinion.
@@rebellucy5610 It really was the most well rounded. It had some many different way to take out its opponent and such depth in its capabilities.
I love your attitude but they are not old! LOL... Still the fastest fighter to date and nothing even comes close. Mach 2.32 with GE engines and airframe updates. Was stupid to get rid of them . Could have made them smaller and still be better than the FA-18 which I also worked on.
I’ve probably listened to the audio of this about 20 times but was never had much of a clear picture of what was actually going on. Thanks
Watch Ward Carroll’s description. It’s much more accurate and enlightening. This one is BS.
Why would anyone play chicken with a couple of F-14's amazes me.
ered203 I don’t know, but when you listen to Cdr. Enwright, he sounded like he’s soon gonna shit his pants, so it seems like the situation wasn’t such an easy win as you want to point out 😂
They were supposed to form up with two other Libyan planes and their ground controllers identified the Tomcats as those two planes.
So they kept redirecting them to the Tomcats everytime they turned away.
After Lockerbie nobody in the Navy was going to give Libya the benefit of a doubt.
Play stupid games and you'll win stupid prizes
Bet the Libyan guy in the control tower got his ass chewed for not telling his pilots that they were intercepting tomcats instead of their flight crew.@@glennchartrand5411
@@anonymouscitizen2732 Well, if you mean LITERALLY ( as in fed alive to tigers or something ) then yeah , I could see that happening in Libya.
How you know they were playing chicken?
The lead F-14 here, Gypsy 207, is the F-14 on display at the Udvar-Hazy location of the National Air and Space Museum in Washington DC. It was converted to a F-14D in the early 90's and continued to serve with VF-31 Tomcatters, and VF-101 Grim Reapers before retiring with the rest of the F-14's in 2006.
The Libyans shouldn’t have turned towards the f 14s multiple times, therefore they are a threat
Yep
Yes
I love the how the vocal tone of the F14 pilots stress gets ratcheted up as the MIGs keep heading directly towards them.
Maybe the US pilots shouldn't be in Libya territorial waters
Star Scream where they ? or were they in international waters? thuth please lets hear it
Are we supposed to have visitors today? Negative sir.
Who do we have up there?
Connolly and Enwright, Sir.
Shit!... Connolly and Enwright...
Chuck Steak Ghostrider take angels 10, left 3-0
@@TechnicalsMatt I want some butts
Great...Maverick & Goose
Goose you see a trailer??
Very Good Alec, I hadn't heard of this incident. There's more to readiness than just having hardware, training is every bit as crucial !
@David A
Same here. I was probably just out of HS and I can't recall hearing about this incident, even though I was a bit of a avgeek even then. Really strange unless the news didn't report it for various reasons.
Hey Guys, the real footage of this dogfight ,( i.e, black and white -camera / cockpit and radio recordings) is posted here on RUclips , even though its one of those blurry- military recordings , it's worth watching , super intense , I'll try to find it again to post the link in this thread if I can get it again ...
Heres one upload of the real combat vid , The video isn't much , but all the radio coms are there , ruclips.net/video/P4kk_5lcQ2s/видео.html
Heres' one of the versions of it , all the radio com is on this link , ruclips.net/video/P4kk_5lcQ2s/видео.html
In 1989, Pat Sajak had his own late night talk show. I remember him making jokes about the Libyans were looking for their fighters as he showed video of swimmers diving under water.
You should do the 1981 engagement as well.
There is a similar video on RUclips of the '81 Gulf of Sidra incident. Not sure who made it, but its almost identical to this one.
Check it out, you won't be disappointed.
2:35 "jinking", not "jinxing"
The lesson here is obvious. Don’t ever point your MIG at a Tomcat unless you intend to pull the trigger, and if you intend to pull the trigger, you had better make sure that yours is bigger and faster than his.
Lesson here is if degenerates invade your airspace fire don't investigate.
Do more videos on this content please
As a former Hawkeye mole (VAW-122), shout out to my brothers in VAW-126. Nice work!
Awesome both 14’s are museum pieces now. I remember when this initially hit the news.
5:24 Sums up the tension in the room.
LOL
The RIO Cmdr.Conelly said that coz he didn't expect for his pilot to launch a Sparrow. They were arguing earlier to use a fox-2 (Sidewinder) rather than a fox-1 ( Sparrow)
So it caught him by surprise when his pilot launched a sparrow, prompting him to say "Ah Jesus."
Two duos sweep wing fighters are in combat
Great video, thanks for sharing. One small nit pick ... the term is "Jink" vs "Jinx", meaning the MiGs were doing a short, sharp turn.
When I hear of the Tomcat, I always think of Tom Cruise and Top Gun for some reason.
@@grifo_-cyan7123 it is
@Stealth Cat i know
Just listening to Enwright, he was in full blown panic mode.
I've thought the same since that audio was first released. Despite the successful kills in the end, it's not exactly a by-the-book engagement. There are a few teachable moments there.
Yep, he did not interpret his scope(s) well. When you turn your jet is is going to change the vector stick of the bogey/bandit and create the illusion of a change in aspect. There's no way the MiG drivers could have perceived the Tomcat turns and reacted so fast/ accurate. The DOD covered the Navy's butt with those statements.
Note how the front seater had a different opinion of events and was surprised when a missile came off his jet!
@@puirYorick You tell 'em, Maverick!
@@justsmy5677 *he did not interpret his scope(s) well*
LOL @ DCS fuxbois.
@EdgemanLL2 - what are you trying to say with your comment?
the F14 turn for "standard intercept"
the Mig turn for "collision course"
NICE
I never knew the F14 at the museum was gypsy 207. I've been there and seen that tomcat several times. But never knew it was part of that incident.
Me either!! I was there a few years back. Incredible place.
Who is up there? - Cougar/Merlin and Maverick and Goose - Great! Maverick and Goose.
@Stealth Cat Lol!
Surprised those pilots aren't flying a cargo plane full of rubber dogshit out of Hong Kong......
Woke up at 4:33am and what do I see? A new vid from Alec waiting for me!
And a rhyme apparently
I think this is your best video. Very compelling stuff in this situation.
Commander Connelly’s: “Now wait a minute” and “oh jeeezus” might be the most relatable moments of the whole story. It’s almost like “definitely didn’t expect to be in a fight, but here we are” type of thing.
For future reference, Alec, the aircraft were making jinking maneuvers, not jinxing maneuvers. Otherwise, nicely done. If you perhaps thought on it to make this much effort on a combat mission in FS2004, you could look into doing future air combat videos through Digital Combat Simulator.
What are jinking maneuvers anyway?
@@Jen-X333 When an aircraft jinks, it's performing quick and unexpected maneuvers either in a manner to defeat a missile or in this case, readjust to an intercept course with the F-14s.
@@WyvernFalken hey thanks 👍🏻
@@WyvernFalken Much like myself avoiding the wife when I come in drunk.
WyvernFalken Combat Missions are also doable in FSX:SE.
Its stable at 30FPS given you use DX10, and it gives you an F-14 by default
I remember this from when I was a child. Didn't really understand it like I do as an adult. Badass pilots executing their training. Awesome job. God bless our troops
Yea real bad ass by sucker punching and having 4 times the better plane.
@@barthill9578 Spoken as expected of someone with no historical knowledge of the area nor operational understanding of how navy's work.
I wonder who trained those MiG-23 Pilots........Russians who tried hard as Hell but these Pilots Just didn’t get it.
It appears they thought the Tomcats were two planes they were supposed to form up with.
So they kept turning towards them.
That was a big mistake.
Of course you have to wonder , what two other planes (near an American Carrier) were they supposed to meet up with?
Libya was probably just looking to harass and annoy the USS Kennedy , but after Lockerbie that was not something the USN was going to allow.
In all likelihood the Mig pilots were recovered by Libya and promptly executed for losing two planes.
@Li Feng karma.
In the case of the MiG 23 it doesn't matter who trained them or how skilled they were. It was a dismal airplane with little capability for fighting air to air against any worthy opponent. It performed absolutely horribly anywhere it's been used outside of a low-level bombing platform. The Soviets scammed their customers into believing it could be used as an interceptor while the Soviets would never have attempted it themselves. It's a straight and level bomb truck with a slow mode and a fast mode. And not much of a bomb truck either.
@@glennchartrand5411 Libya is not a wild wild west lawless country.
@Li Feng You fool what revolution? the fake one you were told. Everybody in Libya loved Gaddafi.
The actual video with audio from the tomcats is available on the internet, I believe here on RUclips. All you have to do is a search if you want to see it.
The committees can say what they want: they weren't in the cockpits jousting with those Libyans. If those pilots judged that they were threatened, nobody can't blame them to defend themselves.
yes you absolutely can, anybody can look at the evidence and judge them however they want. It could be just as easily claimed that they were too rash as it can be claimed it was self-defense.
Amy, you have such an American mind. Why do we get patrol their region with our death machines? Imagine if libya sent planes off the coast of usa and shot down our planes in the same way? Would that be "justified?"
5:24
"Oh, Jesus."
Fortzub and they didn’t. Did kill two MiGs though
It's hard to imagine that Libya would lie about the event. It's so unlike them.
How you know they lied? o yea Fox news told you.
What do you mean a government lies? That's crazy talk. I mean... shit, the US government doesn't lie about anything.
Brilliantly executed video! Perhaps you could switch over to DCS for making future air combat videos/incidents?
Would be pretty expensive.
ScoopityDoopity well I guess it would be somehwhat expensive. But I'm pretty sure he has spent thousands on fs9 at this point. Heatblur animations f14 is 59.99. But infinitely more detailed and realistic.
@@zarakdurrani7584 Here's a hyper-realistic mock-up: ruclips.net/video/fuswSMO15iQ/видео.html ;)
Great video. The only problem is the F14s wings were swept back to intercept. This is one of the reasons the F14 was abandoned. Too expensive to maintain.
The F-14 was expensive to maintain because politicians refused to fund even basic upgrades right from the start, then proceeded to cancel the major upgrade program that would have resolved many of the maintenance issues while bringing the F-14 into the modern age.
I remembered hearing about this when I was a Senior in high school in that some of my classmates compared it to the movie "Top Gun". Libya then went to the UN to complain about the incident and to pass a resolution to the Security Council to condemn the US, but the US showed the photos to the members of the Security Council to show that the Migs were armed. So it resulted in the US, UK and France vetoing the resolution. But as for the Mig-23s, I guess the creator did not know about the insignia carried by Libyan Arab Republic Air Force(LARAF) aircraft back then? They carried the green circle and the green Libyan flag on the tail.
This was awesome!!! Please do more like this😊
I was wondering why the migs never fired. Even after the first one was shot down.
Because mig23 missile is faild
@al Jaberty ok. Just because congress says something doesnt mean it is accurate or true. I think that is clearly self apparent.
Furthermore. You dont need your on board radar to fire IR missiles, and a tactic often used by operators of Soviet equipment and doctrine is heavy reliance on GCI, to get into a WEZ and then turn on their radars. 5 turns into me, accelerating, descending, etc are all evidence of an intercept, picture "shaping" and WEZ management. Anyone who says otherwise doesnt know what theyre talking about.
It can ALSO be evidence of a misunderstanding and attempted rejoin on your own friendlies. Which, truth data shows it was.
All Im saying is that doesnt change the response by the F14s, who reasonably believed they were being intercepted. You wont find a single (good) fighter pilot in the world who wouldnt fire in this situation. They had all ROE met and were well inside self defense criteria. This is a fact. Anyone can say otherwise but ask someone who does this for a living and they will agree.
@al Jaberty you dont know what you're talking about. They were well within international airspace/waters. Im referring to self defense of for the fighters, which applies in international airspace/waters. Unless you think their claim to the entore gulf is valid. Freedom of movement exercises are completely legal and when you are intercepted in international airspace by potentially hostile fighters that have PID, POO, PEI, LOF, and HA/HI met...that equals cleared hot. I do this for a living man. I know what I'm talking about. We had every right to be there.
because they are humans.
Their radars never switched on.
I remember this and the incident involving the Tomcat and a pair of Su-22M Fitters.
Tomcat:4 - Lybia:0
ANYTIME BABY!
with the radar off is pretty easy
@@TIAGO543211 it would have been just as easy with the radars on.
The F-14's AWG-9 radar had INCREDIBLE look-down shoot-down capabilities.
Once they married it to the AN/APG radar from the F-15E Strike Eagle to make the AWG-10 radar that was used in the F-14D, NOTHING could have stood much of a chance, if ANY, against it.
Yeah yeah. Next time will be the Mig 25 shoot down of F-15 or Bison shoot down of F-16
@@davidchamberlin9632 Except it was text book Veitnam with a failed missile. Which also happened in Syria recently too
All I could picture through this whole thing was Stinger yelling: "Do NOT fire until fired upon"
GREAT video....really like what you did here!
Good video. However it would look much better if you used DCS instead of the older MS flight sims. It’s free to download and you can use the mission editor to gain footage without needing to pay for the various modules.
Also you showed an AIM-7 Sparrow being fired at the end instead of the sidewinder which would be appropriate for the fox 2 call.
They looked like AMRAAMs to me...I enjoyed the video but i wish they'd paid more attention to detail in the weapon's load out of all four aircraft.
I always love how Congressmen like to play armchair quarterback.
That's "non-Pilot dumb-ass Congressmen" .
Tommy Hunter - Oversight is their job.
Seems the Congressman defended the pilots actions.so,there is that.
Because it’s easy to second guess a high stress, fast paced situation when they have months to analyze piles of information in their air conditioned office
@@PJMontoya Aspin was not second-guessing-- he affirmed the correctness of the pilots' decisions. He did mention that the MiG's made slight turns that the Tomcat pilots could probably not judge well from their vantage. Also, introducing the possibility of error tends to defuse the subsequent international tension. By not activating their radars, the Libyan pilots may (maybe, possibly, could be) have been trying to avoid conflict despite their orders. Or, maybe trying to sneak up on the Tomcats-- who knows?
Great video! Good job on the pilots. Cheers from Brazil.
What was completely left out of this was the battle group commander, an Admiral (callsign AB) saying weapons yellow and tight, which means DO NOT FIRE. I was there when it happened. Why was that radio transmission left out. I was there and heard it loud and clear.
Consider it payback for Lockerbie, ok?
I remember hearing about this on a news radio station. The announcer said "Two Navy Tomcats clawed two Libyan MiGs out of the sky." Much respect, Navy.
yeah much respect for committing warcrimes... ^^
@Hubby Cub You should make a RUclips video talking about this. I'd watch that.
Topgun officials are quoted as saying the pilots did everything wrong and it was like "Punching kids coming off the short bus"
DID YALL KNOW THAT JET FUEL IS JUST A LIGHT GRADE OF KEROSENE. WE MAKE IT AT MOBIL OIL HERE IN BEAUMONT TEXAS.
So is rocket fuel. Kerosene and liquid oxygen.
Playing chicken with F14s probably wasn't the smartest thing to do.
Playing chicken says you, people from other parts of the world don't play stupid mindless games like chicken.
You'd think the Tomcat pilots trigger happy until you're in the seat of a high-speed metal coffin with two possibly hostile fighters running you down.
Either you shoot first and live or get shot at first and pray you don't die.
I don't get it. Why on earht USA has the most fearful pilots on this planet.
@@FyodorUshakovSuka they felt even attacked by an iranian passenger plane :D and the most ironic thing the captain of that ship even got a medal for that because he was in a "fight".
@A ??? No it wasnt! en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655
Thanks for all the hard work in making that animation/recreation.
Both MiG pilots ejected but Libya never came out to rescue them out of the water!
Gaddafi just didn't know
Very nice job, Allec, along with all your other work. Keep on pumping them out... :D
Alpha Bravo directs “Condition Yellow - Weapons Hold”!
Exactly.
My new favourite video. Love that you have transmission from the aircraft.
Well. done.
A very well put together video with a lot of technical and political information.
Congratulations on a job well done!
there where many errors.
Recreate the final scene from Top Gun!
Never jinx into a tomcat
I was a NFO back then in Reconnaissance aircraft. This, I thought was a FUBAR.
Tough to see our other bird cooking in the desert like a captured falcon.
When this happened, my bedroom was decked out in jet fighter posters and models. Top Gun and Iron Eagle had me really wanting to be a fighter pilot. I was driving to high school when the radio DJ screwed up and said the Migs had shot down the F14's!! I was so devastated all day! Thankfully, I learned it was the other way around later.
Nice!!
Nice vid... again. Another series?
Every. Single. Time. I will take the emotional/stress-related reactions of a Military Pilot, and use THAT to guide me, in whether engagement was warranted or not, over a damn Politician in Washington.
Until a Politician straps his ass into a fighter jet, then goes head to head with a MiG? Nothing will change.
Btw, while Aspin was a systems analyst in the Army for two years? It didn't help him understand the military nor combat- yet, he eventually made it to Secretary of Defense, amazingly enough. He was also BIG on downsizing our Military. However, after our Troops in Somalia were wiped out, because of a lack of military...everything, he was forced to resign. Good Riddance.
While he semi-reached a correct decision in this case? It was proof, once again, if the man having nor morals or values, that he would stand on. As with the mass majority of Politicians? He would "believe" and make decisions, based on the "Political Winds" at the time. A truly imbecilic way to govern, when American lives are on the line.
Interesting commentary :"When this happened I was acting as the JFK’s Main Propulsion Assistant, 2nd ranking Officer in the Engineering Department, and I was also the designated Engineering Officer of the Watch for General Quarters (battle stations). To my knowledge they were not only not reprimanded, they were awarded Distinguished Flying Crosses. This has always stuck in my craw a bit since my dad was a Marine Aviator in WW2 and saw much combat, lost crew members and managed to return a few badly damaged planes to the base or “jeep carrier” that his TBF Avenger was launched from, and he only had a few Air Medals to show for his service.
Despite that, those Pilots and RIOs on the JFK did exactly what they had to do. Although they were far superior to the Libyans, inaction on their part could have had a tragic result for them.
What people do not realize is that we actually set up the Libyans for this deliberately. I don't have any specific knowledge of the orders given, but from my personal experience leading up to this, it would be apparent this was the case.
We were on an easterly course to a port call in Haifa, Israel. At midnight before the shoot down, I called the Pilot House to get permission to take control of the shafts for Engineering Casualty Control Drills. This was a nightly routine when not conducting flight ops. I was told by the Navigator “Sorry John, not tonight, we are turning South and need to make best speed for the Libyan FIR”. Instead of drills, I just stayed up with mid-watch in main control and went to bed a few hours earlier than normal. At 0900 I surprised everybody in my office by showing up there. My Master Chief asked me why we had no drill critique sheets and told him that we had not run drills because we were “heading down south to shoot down some Libyans”. Of course, my staff thought that I was pulling their chains. At noon, I hit my bunk again to get my bio-rhythms back in sync. Then I heard the Bos’ns whistle and I thought I heard the Captain say we had just shot down two Libyan Bombers. I was somewhat shocked thinking that they might be trying to bomb us and had not heard General Quarters called away.
I immediately called Main Control and the Chief Engineer answered. I asked if we were at GQ and he said no, but I needed to come down there right away. I asked him why weren’t we at GQ if we had Libyan Bombers on the way? He informed me that they were Libyan “Floggers”(MIG-23 Fighters). Oh? So no worries then? Well that was pretty much it, except everybody trying to figure out what was going on since no one was told before or after. We finally got some detail from an old CNN video clip two weeks later. People at home knew more than we did.
We definitely were provoking the Libyans. We knew how long it would take them to respond to an intrusion into what they considered to be their air space. We were running a “chainsaw” air patrol with the F-14s. Basically the flights were timed to have two planes on station returning as their replacements were arriving. Typically the senior officers in the Squadron who would be flying that day would be first up. On this day it was the XO and Ops Officer. My guess is that they wanted the action and knew that the first sortie would not see any due to the Libyan response time. So they delayed and went up on the second flight. What exactly was going on would have to be told by those directly involved.
We will never know if the Libyans would have attacked our planes or ship. None of the aircraft involved had ground attack ordinance. The Libyans were most likely trying to get visual confirmation of what was approaching them. This made it necessary to respond to each jink by our planes to continue to close to visual range. Essentially dooming themselves to getting shot. You would have to have one of our fighter jocks explain what the alternative might have been for the Libyans to accomplish their mission and not get shot down. PAN AM 103 had recently been blown out of the sky by a Libyan terrorist, that might have had something to do with the whole episode."
www.quora.com/Two-F-14-Tomcat-fighters-shot-down-two-Libyan-fighters-in-1989-I-was-told-they-were-reprimanded-by-the-military-for-violating-the-rules-of-engagement-Is-that-true
It is "jinking" not "jinxing" BTW - FWIW
"jinked" not "jinxed"
Otherwise good job - the reason the first "Fox One" failed is because at the low altitude, the thicker air limits the range of the missile - they were simply too far away and in too thick air density - not enough range at that altitude to reach the target
Clearly the F-14 pilot paniced.
Awesome video, pal! Keep up the good work.
Request: Can you do 1997 Charkhi Dadri midair collision?
Pretty sure he did that one ages ago
I was in 3 Tomcat squadrons and I thought your previous F-14 stuff was a little weak but this was outfuckingstanding!
My brain is going over g fighters mode like
MISSION COMPLETED HEAD HOME IMMEDIATELY
Don't understand why the pilot didn't use his guns when he couldn't get a missile tone.
Still too far away for guns.
This was well put together. Subbed. 👍
Don't play tag with the US Navy. You will lose.
At least the Libyans were ballsy which is admirable in itself, but yeah you're damn right.
Unless you're facing Hollywood and Wolfman.
@@turnip5359 Ballsy and dead is still dead. Websters defines that as stupid.
Could you do the Battle of Britain next please
My only critique of the vid is the Soviet markings on the 23s instead of the correct Lybian livery.
Not the fact that the aircraft shot down was a Ka-27 Helix helicopter? Take a look at 6:15...
History to be remembered, thanks for the vid!
Then get it right. This is bullshit.
Very nicely done. Keep up the good work.