Unique Aircraft Unique Problem | Trans World Airlines Flight 742
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- Опубликовано: 29 янв 2020
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Allec, I was a passenger on the US Air Flight 405 Crash in 1992. As I got older, I overcame my fears of flying and became more interested in 'WHY' these things happen. I came across your videos and they are only getting better each time. You have come a long way. You have made changes in your videos that I like. Different explanations of what could have caused the events, and even cool fun facts about what other carriers the specific plans flew with until they were retired. It's really nice. Thanks. Thanks for being a nice guy and making these videos to educate and help us.
You should write a book on your experience. I flew all over the world as an engineer for GE in the late 70's to mid 80's. Flying was normal to me and I never worried about it at all. But in May 1979 while standing on a corner waiting for a cab to the airport, I experienced the worst feeling I have ever felt in my entire life. It was a doom, gloom, and feeling of hopelessness. It evaporated when I realized that ''I'm not getting on any plane today. Screw 'em. I don't care if they fire me''. So as fate would be, I missed American 191 from O'Hare to LAX. My mom, dad, and brother thought that I had been killed on it with the 273 others. A freaky feeling stopped me from flying. I still have the plane ticket somewhere, need to find it. The very next day I flew on 2 different DC-10's and a DC-9 to get to an assignment in Maracaibo, Venezuela....without a thought of fear of flying. AA191 crashed almost 41 years ago and I think of it 3-4 times a week now. I had been on hundreds of commercial flights in those days. Why I got that feeling that day is anybody's guess.
@@kimmer6 And I thought I had had a close call !
@@kimmer6 There's a force that sometimes keeps certain people from making a decision that will ultimately end their life. That is why you did not get on the plane. It happens more often than people would believe. I am 45 years old now. I was 16 when I was in that crash. I have only flown twice since then. I never felt comfortable in the air. Even before the crash. I don't want/need to travel much so I haven't been in a 'Need to Fly' scenario since.
It is an honor being able to come across an individual such as yourself. Thank you for appreciating these videos. It means a lot to me.
@@AllecJoshuaIbay And it means a lot to US. Your videos honor those of us, who survived these horrible crashes. It brings awareness to the sometimes forgotten events and let's the world know that YOU spend your time, not only REMEMBERING, but recreating the events, with such precision, such accuracy and done; with dignity and respect. Thank you my friend and please....keep up the good work.
"Over 50 oscillations in a 2 minute period"
Ugghh... The barf bags runneth over...
allison daugherty that would be one rollercoaster of a flight. And people generally don’t like pitch down/pitch up oscillations on planes. I assume both ends were producing bodily fluids.
would have been my last flight in 4 oscillations in 2 minutes
This may be the first video I had to pause several times just to read certain things twice to keep up. Much more technical than usual. I like to see the bar for understanding being raised as the channel grows, as I hope that your viewers are getting more knowledgeable... great vid bro, keep challenging us!
Agreed!! I loved how technical this way and how it made me think of the flying characteristics of the plane during its oscillations while also giving me glimpses into how pilots could control such unusual flight maneuvers (unusual if you're not expecting them anyways lol).
What did you do with the time you saved not typing eo?
Me too, only because the contrast was so bad.
Interesting about the boundary layer on the tail.
Allec, my reply to all the "too much this" or "not enough that" is that you make very interesting videos that appeal to people who either fly or are passionate about airplanes. You will never make everyone happy. Please don't lose sight of the many long-time fans who continue to enjoy these wonderful, well researched stories and have nothing to complain about. :)
*****well researched stories*****
Please see my 2 comments above to see how INCORRECT your statement is!
But cut the music volume by 80%?! Please? (Um, maybe lose the bagpipes?)
I disagree. TheFlightChannel makes FAR better videos than Allec. I suggest you check them out.
A point of saturation is reached, however, with an overly verbose explanation of what probably caused the oscillations drones on with loud sappy music that appears during melodramatic scenes of say “Top Gun.” Keep the explanation technical but limit it accordingly...
9:43 is just the most gorgeous picture. The 707 was a beautiful airplane with crisp lines, and TWA's Globe logo, red arrow pinstripe, and chrome wings paint scheme was a perfect match
When I lived near St. Louis, I flew TWA a lot back in the 80’s, accumulating well over 1/2 million miles. A great airline and many fond memories. My favorite flight was a business class from St. Louis to LGW, flying in the top deck of a 747. It turned out it was the captains last flight before retiring. The Flight Attendants held a small celebration for the captain (with a nice cake) and he came back to the upper cabin and chatted with passengers. For me those were the fun days of flying - before extra security which has become necessary these days. Great video as always Allec!
TWA = The Worst Airline
@TheSoulTwins TWA stands for Trans World Airlines. It was a good airline in history but we are sad that it had ceased operations in 2001.
The Boeing 707 done up in TWA colors was one of the prettiest planes to ever fly.
@@sunnyfon9065 Flight 800 sealed the fate of the company.
Really interesting reading about some of your experiences
Interestingly, I flew on a TWA 707 August 3rd, 1973 from Boston to Paris. It was my first flight on a jet plane. Flight 810 continued around the world, renumbered flight 742 at Bangkok. This segment in the video being the 2nd to last leg with final destination of San Francisco. However the close call for me was TWA 806 Paris-Athens the next day, August 4. The next day, August 5th saw F806, bound, for Tel Aviv, targeted for hijack at Athens, the same one I got off of the day before.. It was quickly foiled, but the terrorists instead opened fire in the crowded transit lounge killing 2. Missed all the excitement by 24 hours.
Unfortunately , just over a year later, TWA lost a 707 over the Ionian sea , killing 88 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TWA_Flight_841_(1974)
@@nigeldallas9054 Oh yes, Athens-Rome, which I flew on the way back Septmeber 1973, was a jinxed route. No less than 4 TWA planes suffered fatal events on this route!
I’ve never been in a particularly dangerous situation on a plane. Closest thing I can say is I flew out of LaGuardia on January 15, 2009.
For some strange reason I still feel that the Boeing 707 300 series is the most beautiful aircraft that has ever flown. And TWAs twin globe paint scheme makes it even more attractive. These photos are 40 to 50 years old. Or close to it.
I could agree more regarding the beauty of the 707-300. So much style and grace. You're the first person I know who holds this aircraft in that regard
The 707 is a really beautiful aircraft, but I don't know if I think it's *the* most beautiful. There's a special place in my heart for the Lockheed Constellation, the Spitfire, and the Boeing 314 Clipper.
Rob M hi thanks for your comment. I agree that the 707 is a very pretty bird with clean, smooth lines. Most beautiful aircraft ever? For me that would be the NAA Valkyrie.
Sorry to divert, but Ah, the beautiful TWA 707s. Today's relatively plainer whiter fuselages are so boring. The double-globe logo is a classic, in my mind a tie between it and the Pan Am globe for best airline logo of all time.
Always had the devil in me when I see a TWA logo to add an extra T. Lol
Yes -- many airlines should bring back the cheatline!
Pan-Am and TWA had been rivals since the dawn of flight. I find it kinda poetic how they both fell almost simultaneously, and in such a similar way. Their death was the end of the Golden Age of Aviation.
"Lands without incident..." is always a great thing to hear during one of these videos.
@@LifesongAcademy exactly and it wasnt explained how they died?
JSD - And I bet the airline attempted to console the passenger's family by issuing a partial refund on the ticket equivalent to the duration between the timestamp for the onset of the incident and the timestamp for when the wheels made contact with the ground at LAX
Max I assume no seatbelt and slid/flew into the wrong type of object head first. Easy then for a bleed to the brain, especially if on. aspirin and older. Heart attack, or some object came loose and hit someone, to the temple causes potentially fatal skull fractures. Someone’s baggage.
One died days later bro
No
Wow, that one was really interesting! Getting to the root of the problem must have been so satisfying for the investigation team. Thanks for all your work on your videos.
The stabiliser, one thing that can REALLY cause an aircraft to have a bumpy ride, or just plain crash.
The 707 was such an over built plane, a very good thing. They weren't really sure in the early 50s what to expect on a civil design and how it would perform under jet stream stresses and the speeds it would cruise at. so they made it one tough bird. If this same event happened to a modern jet, the tail would fly off or the horizontal stabilizers, etc. Like flight 587 over queens.
Not on the 707. You could over correct. the plane could take it.
Now...not so much. And now, because it saves money to build to spec mins, people end up BBQ in little pieces.
Or the plane tries to slam into the ground at warp speed, no matter what the crew does.
On the 707, the pilot flies the plane, not the other way around.
Queens happened because the copilot slammed the rudder back and forth until the tail tore off.
@@patriciamariemitchel The plastic fin tore off in the Queens crash.
Patricia Marie Mitchell Yes, it was an 1988 airbus A300. I believe the NTSB said American did not properly reinforce the importance of not using unnecessary force with the rudder, the guy was almost stomping on it. Terrible accident, if it wasn’t for 9/11 shortly before this one would be more infamous. One of the worst accidents in American history.
@@donnix768 One has to wonder about the intelligence behind designing and building passenger aircraft that aren't meant to be steered/controlled/flown with authority should some need or emergency arise.
@@donnix768, right. Don Nix , there were 2 planes (427 and 585) that crashed because of hot hydraulic fluid entering a cold PCU servo mechanism and having the effect of reversing the rudder. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737_rudder_issues
"The NTSB concluded that all three rudder incidents (United Flight 585, USAir Flight 427, and Eastwind Flight 517) were most likely due to the PCU secondary slide jamming and excessive travel of the primary slide, resulting in the rudder reversal."
The FAA also ordered new training protocols for pilots to handle in an unexpected movement of flight controls, which included working a stuck rudder back and forth to free it.
The copilot, who crashed the plane in Queens, had received such training.
Very interesting problems with control issues.
Thorough and open minded investigation was needed and apparently completed.
Thanks
Another great video, Allec. Thank you for the detailed description at the end. Shame that one person passed. Keep up the good work!
Allec, thank you for the vintage TWA 707. Very technical and very interesting. Great way to start the weekend!
In 1967, I was a 22 year old USN sailor on a flight from JFK to Rome, Italy in a TWA 707. It was an all night flight with only about 35 passengers in coach. After an hour I had about six lady flight attendants pretty much to myself for awhile and ended up with phone numbers of two of the ladies based in Rome. The next year, June 1968 I found myself in Rome for the week-end. I called the number I still had and was lucky enough to talk to one of the two ladies again. That beautiful young lady showed me Rome as a tourist only dreams and I had a wonderful time. I miss Teeny Wenny Airlines!
You did not mention that the horizontal stabilizer assembly was robbed from a freighter. The stabilizers were switched and neither aircraft had a problem after.
As always, a wonderful educational video. Much appreciated!
If I had been the captain of that flight I would have said to my co-pilot after landing: "Here are the keys to the plane, pal. I just decided to retire."
That's a real good idea except it would be too much for the ego to handle. A little ego is a good thing. Too much ego kill you. You have to be able to work together and come up with a viable solution. Whatever you do somebody has to be flying the airplane at all times.
rafani fischer : Dang tootin! 🙀When something zigs when it should have zagged, I’m out of there for good!🌈 lol !
Thank you for including more detailed technical data.
This looks like an example of a phugoid cycle. Well done video.
At first, I suspected the hydraulics for this reason. The kind of things that happen when you lose your control surfaces.
@@julosx Why would you suspect the hydraulics? The 707 elevators and ailerons are not boosted, and if there is no trimming going on, as would be indicated by the very loud and obvious movement of the trim wheels, the horizontal stabilizer is not moving. And, while the rudder is hydraulically boosted, it has no role in pitch oscillations. But, it is a weird scenario, and I would have been mystified had it occurred when I flew the 707, but nothing like this ever happened to me.
Love the music and technicality of this video!! Challenging your viewers isn't a bad thing and I really enjoyed the extra knowledge from it! Great work Allec!!
My first flight was on a Lockheed constellation in TWA livery in 1959.
Frankfurt am Main To Shannon IRL to LaGuardia.
In my life I've flown AA,United,Braniff,North West Orient, Delta,JAL,KAL,PSA,Continental numerous regionals and Pan Am.
I've flown in aforementioned Constellation, B707,B727,B737,B747,B757, DC 8,9,10, MD 80 series and MD 11.
Lockheed Elektra, 1011,
Convair 600 series, Embraer, Fokker, Fairchild and Canada Air CRJs.
Military C130,C141,and Seasprite helo.
Of all The Pan American jets were the nicest. The 707 and 747 were stand outs. The cabins were nicely appointed, cabin crews outstanding.
I always looked to see which clipper we boarded. I still have my junior pilot wings and flight bag from a 1963 PA flight in a 707.
I don't fly anymore .
I miss the days of arriving at the counter 15 mins before departure and zing on the plane and gone.. I miss walking in the open air rain or shine and climbing the steps. Then arriving and down the steps walking to terminal..
Flying then, people were civil , dressed nicely and didn't stink.
Last flight was after 2001 and loud mouth, disheveled or poorly dressed rude people .
The magic and wonder is gone. Air travel has become riding on a city bus. I wonder when graffiti will appear in the cabins?
, That would ensure that further incidents would at least be fully understood by the flight crews. Well Done on what is a highly complex and technical issue.Excellent discussion concerning the controllability of the aircraft, this was in the early days and much experience had yet to come.
Thank you for the excellent and informative presentation, which was suggested by the RUclips hit-or-miss computer. This time they got it right. Subscribed. Thanks again. Wright Flyer, USAF (1968-1972).
Nice. Another great vid!
When the plane landed safely I thought everyone was gonna survive.
There's a video that shows some of what the passengers in back of the plane actually went through, being whipped around up and down. One passenger hit the ceiling so hard she went through it.
Link?
Patricia Marie Mitchell
Link?
@@patriciamariemitchel damn
@@WHATSAHANDLEIDKIDK I'm looking. I'll be right back
Allec:
I really appreciate the research, information, graphics and objectivity involved in re-creating and explaining each of these air disasters.
For those who have survived these incidents, their memories can be quite traumatic. For those who have lost loved ones (family, friends, colleagues, etc.) these videos not only explain the objective truth of how it all happened, but can create a somberness close to that of a wake or funeral.
You quality, professionalism, delivery and dignity...(even down to the coat and tie worn in your own picture), reflect courtesy and professionalism on your own part.
Thanks for doing this right. Much appreciated sir.
Way to go, this one and Mauricio PC channel are the best ones for aviation recreations!
Always interesting and informative. Well done Allec!
Greetings from South Africa 👋🇿🇦
Thank you for another excellent explanation of a complex technical issue.
You uploaded it right on my Birthday. Thx i appreciate that.
Great analysis of the trim issues. With a modern aircraft, a software patch would likely correct the issue. Unless it’s a 737.
No.
Software works off the same things an old autopilot does. It measure the position of the controls, the force applied to the controls, and how the aircraft moves in relation to them.
If there was a condition where the control force didn’t line up with the control movement or the aircraft movement, a miscompare or no compare flag would pop up alerting the pilots that someone was not right while it continued to fly the aircraft as best as it could.
It’s analogous to having a vacuum leak in a modern car. You don’t rewrite the software. You fix the leak. But the computer will sense a lean mixture and high idle and adjust the idle air valve and the amount of fuel while giving you a warning light that something isn’t right.
Bartonovich52 Thanks! The discussion of the trim issues being correctly compensated by the autopilot, but not so well by the pilots, and subsequent repetition of the issue on other flights led me to believe that it might have been fixable with a correction in software. Just reminded me of the 737 modification induced crashes with similar trim compensation, for which the poorly executed trim program was instituted. Amazing machines.
MAX
Not a software driven aircraft..
I first read about this incident in 1984. In the Summer of '85 I was flying from Dubrovnik to Belgrade on a JAT 727 in excellent weather with no turbulence. During cruise the plane began to oscillate up and down. I recall looking around at other passengers to see if they noticed anything strange when the plane went up then back down. No one seemed to notice. The 727 did this a number of times during the flight. I have never experienced this oscillation before or since. The maneuver was uncomfortable enough to notice. I immediately thought of the TWA 707 incident while it was happening. the oscillations went away when we began our descent. My seat was on the port side and behind the wing on the JAT flight. I do not know if the pilots were doing something they weren't supposed to be doing or whether this particular 727 had some mechanical fault that wasn't deemed bad enough to cancel the flight and repair right away.
Yes!!!!!! Boeing 707!!!! Finally you covered it!
Pan American 001 Rip you 1926-1991
@@NathanPlays395 Exactly. (send help please)
To put this in mathematical terms, the pitch of the airplane is controlled by a feedback loop that includes the pilot. If you turn up the gain or radically change the response time in such a system, it suffers an exponentially-growing oscillatory instability. Increasing the magnitude of the response to yoke motions increases the gain. The giveaway in the description was the fact that two different airplanes exhibited the same oscillation frequency - that's intrinsic to the aerodynamics of the airplane. If the pilot had let go of the yoke, the oscillations would have decayed away, but the stable state would not have been level flight because the trim was set wrong. A good servo-control system (ie, autopilot) can tune itself and adapt to slowly-changing parameters.
I once saw the same thing happen horizontally to a car in dense traffic which suddenly slowed down. A car in my rear-view mirror over-reacted to the sudden slow-down. He must have panicked and over-steered - he went into growing oscillations which got limited by smacking into his two neighbors.
Very interesting and detailed analysis. Bravo!
Hello Allec nice video! I'm a big fan of your videos!
February 20, 2019: started watching AJI air incident re-creations.
February 19, 2020: my first flight in a year.
Heaven help me the first time we encounter turbulence!
I did fly today (Boeing 777) and the flight encountered turbulence over the Black Sea. The same in the other direction a couple of weeks before.
May the one person who died RIP. Kudos to the pilots!! BTW, who else misses TWA besides me? Great video as usual, bro! I have to ask you if you are a commercial pilot Or mechanic.
If my "ol' man" memory hasn't failed me, he will be (or already is) a flight student.
Niklas Enblom one of my parents closest friends was a senior TWA 747 Captain & always had captivating tales to tell. Bill's gone now but his ex is still a close friend of mine. RIP Bill.
azmike1956 He’s with God
@@nenblom Amen brother.👆
I remember flying on a super constellation Chicago to Phoenix in the 50's. The blue glow of the exhaust at night...
Great video as usual, Allec. While my flying experience was limited to helicopters in the military, I just can't relate to the somewhat vague insinuation by NTSB was somehow the pilots' fault on the stick. The PIC had vast flight experience.
I do appreciate the increasing quality of your videos and never miss one. Thanks much!!!
Way above my level of comprehension. Lots of technical jargon. I only have one question. Did any crashes occur that were attributed to any of these four factors noted? Good video.
Like any planes or? They have a list of 4 events because that's what has resulted in crashes like that. Unfortunately most rules that have to do with flying are passed due to incidents. Such as never saying takeoff (played a part in the deadliest crash to day) until it's actually time for takeoff.
If your interested in weather taking down a plane look up Delta Air Lines Flight 191 is an interesting one.
Unfortunately, far too recently. The 737 MAX8 displayed similar problems in two crashes over the past 2 years. Obviously for different reasons but both 737's pitched up and down on takeoff (oscillating) before nose diving into the ground. In this situation the TWA pilots deserve much credit for controlling the plane. Things could have gotten a lot worse.
I left a comment earlier, but forgot to mention how much I have been enjoying your videos !
Excellent research into this accident, Allec.! Miss TWA , plus the red starstream colors suited the 707 down to a T (pardon the pun). Some great pics there from their heyday in the 60's. Held their own against Pan Am too. St. Louis Lambert Field was the HQ. JFK was used to fly to the Euro capitals. It's a pity they were dissolved but that's capitalism for you.
Oh yeah!! The golden age of jet travel.
Not dissolved, so much as absorbed (like practically everybody else in the US).
@@ericcoleson7410 True!
@@cchris874 Couldn't have said it better, people actually were polite and had manners! Continental were a great airline too. Work hard, fly right!
Thank God for capitalism. Maybe not a perfect system - there isn’t one - but it’s the only system that has proven itself time and again that ideas and creativity can get people out of poverty.
Socialism kills.
As a lifetime a/cengineer & aircrew/aircrew training. ...wow ! What a subtle event to thrown on you. As the video was playing, I wondered if an auto trim condition associated with C/G change due fuel burn could be involved. Amazing about airflow irregularity on t/p !! FULL MARKS for interesting presentation.
Nice video you are doing a awesome job keep it up.
It’s amazing how the pilot 👩✈️ & computers are fighting against each other on some of these videos.
Normal situation during an air incident...
Usually on Airbus planes,they're controlled by computers not pilots!.
Yeah, such battle brought down two B737 Max
The inherent problem with these aircraft is that nose "trim" is set by the pitch of the entire surface of the horizontal stabilizer which is driven by servo motors and not the control column. The pitch of the horizontal stab is coupled to the control column by automation even when the autopilot is disengaged. What the pilot feels on the control column is an artificial force and not a direct aerodynamic force. This gap between "real and feel" is what caused the pilot induced oscillation experienced during this incident. Fast forward to the MAX, Boeing decided to add in a single angle of attack sensor to the mix of automation of the pitch trim servos. When the automation erroneously determined to keep trimming the nose down, it reached a point of no return. Pulling back on the control column actually caused the tail to stall (you won't see that part in the report) which led to both of the crashes. Allowing the entire horizontal stab to be the trim and not the elevator results in the least amount of drag at high speeds and altitudes. You can see now though the cost of trim automation failure. In the case of the MAX that cost was human life.
Wow, that was a techy one... I kind of get it, but I feel you’d need to be an aeronautical engineer..or a test pilot to fully understand
I replied to this three years ago. I now wonder if the stabilizer airflow problem was a result of the wider stabilizer mentioned in your video of the aircraft that sheared half the stabilizer. The aircraft was Red Circled (cannot fly till fixed) I worked the aircraft and could not find an autopilot problem. Other mechanics checked for damage and rig. The aircraft was test flown at LAX with no problems. It was found the aircraft had history. Then we heard the passenger died. The aircraft was ferried to MCI where extensive work was done. It was finally decided to change the stabilizer assembly. A stabilizer was robbed from a 331 freighter. Both aircraft flew with no problems.
Awesome video Allec!👍👍
Much enjoy the step-by-step possible causes and elimination. This makes this a learning experience AND demonstrates the procedure used by NTSB to wade through the complex occurrences that are common in today's aircraft
Good piece Allec. Thanks.
My first airliner flight was on a Boeing 707 American Airlines in Sept. of 1977 after graduating basic training at Great Lakes Naval Training Command (Company 172} The flight was very smooth, hats off to the pilots and flight engineer and crew
beautiful plane, the 707
Okay, I'm halfway through. I'd have suspected pitch trim runaway and would have tried turning the A/P back on (undo the last thing you did before trouble). Now back to see if I'm right....
Nope. Not trim "runaway", trim "insensitivity" - by the time the trim motors activated the pilots had manually countered the nose up/down condition, then the trim motors added to the problem... Turning on the A/P was probably the right move, though.
Love your videos Joshua. Would you consider doing some piston engine airliner incident videos? I think many would be interested in Constellation, DC6/DC7, Stratocruiser, Convair twins and Martin twins videos!
The death and injuries were tragic, and my heart goes out all who were traumatized. The explanation of what happened is interestingly complex and thoroughly explained. Allec, you are the best.
Alec, As a frequent business traveler, I accumulated over 1 million miles during my career. I experienced a couple of stressful incidents. The most noteworthy was at DFW the day of the Delta jet being struck by a severs wind-shear while landing. I saw the accident scene a short while after the crash. It definitely got my attention and caused me a level of future stress which I never experienced until that day.
50 oscillations in two minutes?! That is about 1 every 2.5 seconds. That is incredible!
That's nuts
Awesome vid.👍👍
I congratulate you on your video. Control theory is difficult to understand because of its abstract nature and you did a great job on the presentation.
Damn, this is the first aviation incident video with such a long and technical explanation, however, it is interesting to see how minor nuances matter so much..
Yes same thing happened to me when I was 9. I was riding down hill real fast on my new Schwinn 10 speed and my handle bars started to oscillate . Luckily I regained control before a fatal crash occurred. Notified the parents and got the "I told you so" speech.
Great video Allec.
Another fascinating examination. AT this time I was in high school, and of course never flew the B-707-320. At time stamp 9:15 it got really interesting. The description of the elevator control forces and over-sensitivity are similar to the condition of an AFT C/G, near the aft limit of the MAC envelope. Generally modern Transport Category airplanes have such a wide C/G range? But this 707, having burned most of its fuel en-route from PHNL...hard to say its actual C/G at that point near end of the flight. Airspeed is a factor here, also. Along with configuration: Flaps/Slats and gear.
The one sentence I hate when a plane crashes in "everybody on board was killed"
Are we watching the same video?
@@trent3872 yes I'm just saying
How bout There were no survivors.
I really wish I knew more about the jargon and technical details of how a plane flies. Very technical this vid which is no criticism of you, much more a lament at my ignorance!
Excellent video as always. See Khabarovsk Flight 3949 for a much more tragic example of autopilot grappling with a changing fuel load.
To explain why the oscillation occurred; it was a combination of manufacturing/formation errors on one side of the plane relative to the other, lack of tolerance on specific parts of the plane (which would cause forces outside of the acceptable range for flying a 707), and amplification/sustain of the oscillation due to the attempts of pilots to correct said oscillation; as well as miscalculated gradients for the elevators along the loads for said elevators being lower than normal - causing it to be almost constantly out of trim as the aircraft pitches up.
I don't blame Allec for putting in the full details however I think for synopses as information-dense as this, diagrams or animations should be made to help people follow along.
Then why didn't this happen on every flight? It had happened once before, a year earlier.
Dale Fry It only happened on a few planes
@@MrTruckerf The answer is the same for many accidents. A flaw may only reveal itself every now and then witness TWA 800, USAir 427 and the 737Max.
Well...i have to admit that i lose my focus through the explanation. The last videos have been like this (IMO) but i am aware that it rises the bar for viewer's understanding. I've never wanted to suggest something Allec, but i think this time i agree with some people that maybe a little less of post-incident-report would be good. I feel really weird writing this but...you know...
I love this channel. Your work and dedication is supreme.
That's why the 707 was called the dancing plane until the 720B came to service.
OMG these are beautiful planes!
Well done, Allec. While the explanation was highly technical and over my head, I did understand there were several injuries and an ultimate death, which is eye-opening. Wonder if the passenger who died had been going to or in the restroom, and the phugoid phenomenon caused the passenger to break their neck if thrown to the ceiling? Not trying to be morbid, I’d just like to know..
In my opinion, Ibay's aviation videos are the best at RUclips. On other channels, they are significantly longer with move slowly. Ibay has a nice balance of information and length.
I personally think The Flight Channel is far better because his videos just keep getting better and better. He's a better storyteller and his presentation style is unique and a visual feast for the eyes. Allec basically just keeps recycling the same crap every week using the same tired old graphics and presentation style without adding anything new.
Glacius I disagree as The Flight Channel oftentimes uses inappropriate music to go with his videos, without considering the context of the situation. Allec's videos have a more serious and overall formal feeling to them.
@@SK-qu4wo I watch all the Flight Channel videos as well. My only complaint is their length. The quality of their videos is excellent.
Thank goodness that there was an efficient crew flying the plane to avert a major accident. Most of us can never imagine what it’s like flying an airplane, let alone one experiencing mechanical problems.
Excellent video. Well explained!
"...the low control forces were caused by the effect of a thickened boundary layer on the left stabilizer which was produced by waviness on the stabilizer upper surface combined with the step down at the stabilizer to elevator contour fair..."
of course
good video Allec, wish i could afford to become a full time member
I think he accepts EBT cards as a method of payment.
Man, that was complicated.
Shame, too, that one death.
I will probably need to rewatch this as I'm not sure my technical understanding is up to scratch, but from a first view I think there was a fault with the left elevator that was causing the inputs to be oversensitive, and when the pilot started correcting the pitch up his inputs starting phasing with the pitch motion of the aircraft which created a feedback loop?
Kudos to the pilots for landing that plane and may the one deceased person RIP.
It's simply a technological miracle that such huge and complicated machines can fly to begin with..
Old fashioned example of flight crews having three names 👍
As much as I loved to see 707s fly in their day with their ear piercing engines, they had quite a checkered safety record and a number of problems were mechanical. I never flew on one.
A month earlier, Pan Am fight 816 crashed on takeoff from Tahiti killing all but one. That one has always bothered me as the French never really tried very hard to find the cause of that crash. Pan Am lost four 707s in 1973-74.
This TW707 made it to Heathrow in July 69 was looking good them
The incident occurred 8/28/73. The video at 1:08 states the plane was 7 yrs old. At 6:35 the video states the plane had been in service for 15 yrs. What was the age of the plane - 7 or 15 yrs? Am I missing something?
That plane had dreams of being a 737 MAX 8!
Well, here we go, one time flying to LA from Phoenix, the plane just dropped like a rock out of nowhere.There was people bouncing from the ceiling.There was a sand storm underneath.Doesnt take much to shake a plane.
When flying on a TWA jet back in the 60s, a fellow passenger said that TWA stood for "Travel With Angels". 😇😇😇
Those letters have also stood for Try Walking on Water and Terrorists Will Attack. And That Wonderful Airline. Take your pick.
Very technical explanation. I'm not sure I really followed it, but at the end, it seemed as though the whole thing would have been avoided if the pilot had not taken it off autopilot manually. It seemed as though if he had done it by moving the control column, the oscillations would not have occurred. Glad they were able to get it under control and on the ground safely. Unfortunate about the one fatality.
TWA and PanAm are such infamous brands for anyone growing up in the 70s-80s. I’m sure they had great reputations overall but I feel gloom when I see those names.
TWA & Pan Am were the only airlines that could handle the intricacies and flight logistics in those days. But the were reliable and kind. Their management was interested in customer satisfaction and had the best personnel on the ground and on the planes. Passengers could feel the high standards. Pan Am had the best upgrades even before the frequent flyer frenzy. I was in Brazil when they folded. Even then they got us home with very good service.
I was five days old when this happened! 😊
You lost me at 9 minutes, lol 😲
Luv ur channel ✌🖒
I’m guessing every barf bag was used that night!
Good one
Maybe you could do a video on Varig Flight 820
Repeated pitch motions are guaranteed to induce motion sickness - that's why a boat bouncing from wave top to wave top will cause seasickness. At least this time it wasn't the autopilot overcompensating.
That's sad, a passenger passed on, later on😢, do we know if their death was related to this flight? Thanks for sharing this with me 👍
Yes - it was a cerebral hemorrhage due to injuries sustained from being thrown up and down as a result of the oscillations. libraryonline.erau.edu/online-full-text/ntsb/aircraft-accident-reports/AAR74-08.pdf
Love the music, who are they?
I had to watch this twice because I wasn't aware of what some of the technical terms actually meant as far as parts of the plane and how they react. I really get annoyed, and perhaps I shouldn't, but it seems to me, that every opportunity the NTSB gets, pilot error seems to be included into the spread of blame even when they eventually discover that there is a flaw or damage in a part of the plane's mechanism. since the plane was repaired and return to flight it's pretty obvious that the incident occurred because something was actually wrong with the plane. The crew, in my opinion, responded and dealt with the situation as best they could; they should be commended for regaining control of the plane and landing it safely.
With well trained pilots in the cockpit, you can overcome any obstacle the sky or your plane will throw at you. Believe that