No Clear Option | American Airlines Flight 625
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- Опубликовано: 5 сен 2024
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American Airlines Flight 625, a Boeing 727-100, crashed at St. Thomas, U.S. Virgin Islands on April 27, 1976, while on a domestic scheduled passenger flight originating at T. F. Green Airport in Rhode Island and ending at Saint Thomas, United States Virgin Islands with an intermediate stop at John F. Kennedy International Airport. 37 out of the 88 passengers onboard died in the accident.
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The end of a runway is a good place for a warehouse that stores pillows or stuffed animals, or perhaps a giant set of spike strips, but NOT for a gas station.
Fly Papers R Us.
When the line "....hitting a gas station...." I was like "HUH?! What is a gas station doing at the end of a runway?!"
I agree. Trying to land a passenger jet on a short runway with a gas station at the end is a recipe for disaster.
SmilingSynic Well, they also sold fireworks, and lots of glass figurines that could shatter into glass shrapnel.
And I think they were about a week away from starting to store VX Nerve Gas there. So, probably not the *BEST* planning.
Or a giant net maybe
Pilot error, my father was a pilot and often tells me how pilots become “taxi drivers” - this means that pilots who’ve been flying for many years become complacent and think nothing will ever happen to them. Interesting stuff.
Thank you for making this video. My cousin was one of the flight attendants that died, Joan Carrara. She was 36 and was on of the last of three people to be identified. She was a statuesque, beautiful woman. I've often wanted to speak with someone who survived this crash and remembers her.
Nan, Joan was a friend of mine in DCA. She was an absolutely marvelous woman. She was one of two friends lost in crashes, the other Jim DeHart in the DC10 in Chicago, 1979. Oddly, after so many years, I still think of Joanie and being at her Christmas party in 1973. It was a fun time and a great memory of a very memorable gal.
Now that you mentioned it, may I please offer my condolences to Joan's family. I know it's been about 45- 50 years, but I think they have closure in the belief that our Lord Jesus has blessed her in heaven. Godspeed to her family and yours too.
@@temory27 Hi Tom, I am sorry it took me so long to see your reply! Thank you. I was a Freshman in high school when the accident happened and it was so stunning. Really, my aunt, her mother, was never the same. I can't imagine. I'd love to talk to you sometime about Joan (we called her Joanne---I never knew why). I am so sorry you lost another friend not long after. Two friend in three years time is too many and too soon.
@@nanfrostsfashionfocusstyle6250 Nan, Joan was a real cutup with a very close group of Flight Attendant friends in Washington. She had this wig she wore when she couldn't get her hair under control for her flights. It was a nice wig but she occasionally wore it askew to be funny, and that gal was funny. I only worked a couple of flights with her but she was all business and personality and the passengers loved her. I was new and actually didn't fly long because there was a airline-wide furlough due to and Arab Oil Embargo, but Joan was one of the people I remembered so well from those days. It was a terrible thing and it hit people so hard.
Where do you live?
@@temory27 I live in CT but am originally from OH. I like knowing she was funny. I was so young, I was in awe of her. My aunt, who was close in age to her, said she was so down to earth and fun. Where do you live?
I am glad to finally get this video. Very strange to see this as I witnessed this crash. My PrinAir flight arrived from San Juan and I had missed the bus into downtown Charlotte Amelie. I walked to the end of the runway on a parallel road. The road made a T intersection and I sat on a bus stop bench to rest. I could see the AA plane off in the distance as it was getting ready to land. Getting hungry by this time, I got up from the bus stop bench and walked across the street to a small cafe/restaurant and sat down to order. Before I could order, and less than one minute from leaving the bus stop bench, I saw the jet and knew it was not going to take off and was sliding into the Shell gas station,as mentioned in the video. I was able to get out and somehow ran as fast as I could in the opposite direction. There were a few cars in front of the restaurant and got down low before I took off running. This sort of protected me from the heat as the plane was now where the gas station used to be. Something or someone was watching out for me on that day as if I had not moved from the bus stop bench when I did, within one minute, I would have been crushed. After I realized how close that I came to dying in a horrible manner, even til today I am thankful for that invisible Hand that moved me in time to be alive 42 years later. My thoughts and sorrow still remain for the souls that perished that awful day........I am adding to this comment for those who have added comments that I lied about this crash. It is not a lie and was a horrible thing to witness. I was mocked for talking about the invisible Hand. I was raised to believe in God. Whether an invisible Hand, God or strictly coincidence or chance that I moved from that bench, I am alive today after all these years as the plane slid right over the bench and I moved just in time. This cafe, at that time, was very small. When I went in, I sat on a stool which faced the runway out the window behind the counter person. As to how long it took, I actually did not have a stop watch. It was a minute or less. This was my first actual vacation in years, at the time, working for the Louisiana Job Service. I didn't have a lot of money, but the Baton Rouge travel agent found a 3 night air/hotel combined affordable and I took it. The trip to Charlotte Amelie was a side trip from San Juan on PrinAir was about$40 or$50 round trip. The accident happened just as described. No lies. Ironically as years passed, I ended up working for and retiring from Northwest Airlines in the frequent flyer program. All that I can say is thank whatever for saving my life and soul to now be 74 years old and to not have died in 1976.
Roy Sanders
Amazing story, thanks for sharing.
Hi Roy, I am a local on St Thomas. How did no one on the ground not get killed? was there not gas station employees, people in cars waiting to get gas pumped, driving and walking pedestrians on the 4 lane highway that the plane crossed over to hit the gas station ? .
Roy Sanders Thank you for your observation.
Leon Swan one person on ground died as a result of the crash.
J. Lynn Detamore, OK thanks, I walk by the actual spot that i see the wreckage of the crash in the 1976 photos. The old gas station is now just a spot where they store / park heavy equipment. i see the concrete slabs as the ground where the rusted under ground fuel tanks must still be or was removed when the gas station stopped operating as one. There is a restaurant just to the left of the spot. It must be the one Roy Sanders got out of when the jets landing gear collapse when hitting the curb and highway. There is a concrete island lane divider between the opposite lanes. I Don't know if one was there in 76 cause it sure would of hit that too. The 727 turned sideway in front the gas station on the highway as it looks in the photos. its wing fuel tanks burned. In the 1976 photos, the gas station is still there, un burnt. It did not explode.
Seems like the end of a runway is a poor choice to place a gas station.
There's housing and a main road there now, as I've been to the USVI several times. That airport even it's current form is a bit short, St. Croix's is far more maneuverable airport but it get's less traffic as St. Thomas is the hub for the USVI for some reason
it does.. i can think of a crash in Burbank CA where a southwest plane over shot the runway and ended up at a chevron gas pump (nobody died ).. the gas station ended up being shut down
There was a restaurant just past a runway in Sacramento in 1972. A plane went right into it during an air show, killing 22. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1972_Sacramento_Canadair_Sabre_accident
Fully Spooled look at LAPA accident
i know right , that shouldn't even be permitted
We were on our way home just a mile down the road. Our mother, an EMT, switched gears and went to help. Even though I didn't see the crash, it was a lesson for this 9 year old on the fragility of life. Airport since renamed Cyrill E King Airport after our popular governor.
The 727....such a magnificent piece of machinery.
As she was being passed out of service I wold always plan my trips around fling at least one leg on a 727.
Even if that meant several changes, layovers and long, long days. But it was always worth it.
I used to sit port side by the engines. Nothing like that sound to soothe your nerves and make the trip enjoyable.
Ahh...the glory days of air travel. Gone forever.
I remember going to St.Thomas as a kid with my family back in the late 70’s....a few years after this accident took place. The crash was still in the minds of people down there...(there was also a similar accident a few years earlier with another 727)...and the large hill at the end of the runway was being blasted away. We traveled there quite a few times following ....always arriving on smaller Prinair Herons and Aero Virgin DC-3’s....But could see the runway being extended into the sea. Eventually the new runway opened and 757’s took over. Last time I went...5 years ago I still could not wipe the image of the AA accident from my mind as we set down on that runway.
Thank you again for a fine aviation history lesson, Allec.
Eastern airlines never stopped flying the 727- 100s into st thomas after the AA crash. EASTERN even started flying the 727-200 using the 4636 thousand ft runway. My dad worked for Eastern in St Thomas back then. I will always remember that crash it actually happened on my birthday.
Good video. I live in St. Thomas. The runway was extended in 1995. And there is still a gas station at the end of that same runway. I remember the locals telling me about how they will never forget the smell of burnt flesh. Tragic. I actually know of the survivors of that plane crash too.
Hello Feisty Finn, I live on St Thomas too. What did the survivors you know say on how they got out of the plane and the 37 perished? Did the fuselage split open, and people in the forward or rear end got out? Any details you know? I am a aviation buff and study crash investigation.
I guess he didn't know.
Mr. GP. were any of the survivors you know on the plane? or were they on the ground? If on the plane, I would want to speak with them to see if they remember my cousin who was a flight attendant. She was one of the last to be identified she was so badly burned.
I wasn't living in St. Thomas at the time. Moved here in '98. I know of one survivor that lives in Houston now.
Pretty sad thing that 37 people lost their lives in a vacation to paradise :( May all who died rest in peace.
it also was the week of our carnival here on St Thomas,. i believe this crash happened the Tuesday. friday was the children's parade, Saturday the adults parade. i was told by my cousin who was around back then that they named a race horse after the incident... His name was " Plane Crash "
@@leonswan6733 That was in very poor taste.
Paradise? The Caribbean can be a nasty place.
Yes and all those folks wanted was some warmer temperatures well it got a little bit too hot!
@@pipercolt1963 and some people, like my cousin, were just going to work that day.
Been binge-watching your videos. I like your stick-to-the-facts approach and the graphic reenactment. Your final wrap-up nails the chain of events and contributions nicely. Thanks a lot.
You're an idiot. How can A guy serve in WWII and work for American Airlines since 1941, and be 54 years old in 1995.
Cody King huh?
Cody King, what?? He was 54 in 1976. Dont where you got 1995 from. But in 1995 he would have been 174 years old.
@@codyking4848 tf
@@Ledboi420 He modified his comment after I called him out.
A pilot hesitating during critical phases of flight will almost always end badly.
Allec, I applaud your using A/C for the airline involved in these incidents. I worked for a major US airline for 35 years and the media generally would show our A/C whenever another airline screwed up to discredit us. Just a smear tactic for them but very unfair. Thanks for these great interpretations of A/C accidents and incidents.
The media, then as now, can NEVER be counted on to tell the truth or to get their supposed "stories" correct. Nobody in their right mind should EVER pay any attention to them, especially in today's world. Their bias on many topics is so blatantly biased!
When my family and I flew into St. Thomas 30 years ago on Pan Am, the pilot warned us that it was a short runway and that he'd have to hit the brakes almost as soon as the wheels touched down. I was an anxious flyer when I was a kid so I imagined the worst. Luckily, everything turned out fine.
SRGots, at least your pilot knew that he might have to use all of the braking methods at his disposal to handle the short runway. The pilots in this video should have reviewed short-runway landings before they took off.
5:08- "Pilots failed to use max braking, reverse thrust, spoilers, fuller flaps".
What could possibly go wrong?
@Bill Tabbert Just an idea but perhaps there should be some sort of "emergency barrier" at the end of runways to stop airliners from running off the end? Something like an aircraft carrier "net barrier" could be used and raised in an instant at the touch of a button in the control tower.
@@tungstenkid2271 There is. Its not a net but the ground itself at the end of the runway is designed nowadays to act as a brake for runaway airplanes
@@303ks Maybe, but a barrier would guarantee no more run-offs, and so would arrester wires and a braking parachute..:)
@@tungstenkid2271 The weight and momentum of a jet passenger aircraft is much, much greater of that of a fighter jet. I'm afraid those would not work and even if you made a barrier strong enough to hold those forces, it would still feel like a crash for the aircraft and passengers due to the sudden deceleration forces
@@303ks There are plenty of vids of aorliners running off the end of runways for various reasons with fatal results, so obviously the boffins are scratching their heads wondering how to prevent it, but my 3 ideas would guarantee no runoffs ever again..:)
Someone is telling you to stop making air disaster videos, don’t worry Allec, just ignore them, I want you to do more air disaster videos :)
I’ve had the most worst day I wanted to go plane spotting but I can’t but when Alec uploads a video it has made my day feel a while lot better
The 727 was my favorite airplane as a kid in the 70s and American was my favorite airline along with United. Also a shout out to the DC10 and 747.
We flew into that airport in 1973 from San Juan. The runway seemed very short.
How old are you
@ Joanna : It is. Or was. Only 4,658 feet, until it was subsequently lengthened to 7,000 ft. (Can't find info on when the lengthening was done.)
Just wondering how the pilot could have been flying for American since 1941, and yet be a WWII vet? Maybe he started in 1941 and his service was interrupted because of WWII?
Most likely he got pilot training in the late 30's, then flew commercially until joining the war effort (also most likely back to civilian work after the war).
exactly my thoughts when seeing that!
Well, americans flew british planes prior late 1941 and also in china. So its not impossible he was on one of thpse fronts and suffered a wound that restricted his combat flying abilities? Or he could have been part of civilians flying transports
He was 54. I'll bet he started in 1951. Just a typo.
Bob D Not ALL pilots were called up, airlines still operated domestic flight and somebody had to be driving those airliners. Most WWII pilots were young kids 18-20 when they started training. The initial requirement was high school graduation and a year of college, later the college requirement was dropped
I watched this video without sound and trust me it works. The graphics and subtitles were excellent. Elements of the narrative however reminded me of the Ariana Airlines crash at Gatwick back in 1969.
I watched it without sound too
I'm from St.Thomas and witnessed the crash as a child. Thanks for posting the video. I witnessed the event (as a child) but never fully knew what led up to the crash.
Hey Roy, you still live in California ?
@@leonswan6733 Sorry l, but I've never lived in California.
@@royrogers3404 It was Yankee I think they said moved to California. How you been. ?
@@leonswan6733 Doing alright bruh, that helicopter crash this week haunts so many people.
@@royrogers3404 yeah, I was down at the airport in the back by FedEx Ups bob lynch freight and we saw the Bell 206B fly over after it just took-off and it was fish tailing. The wind has been high lately, and I had a bad feeling cause I know how old those things are. Next thing you know I herd it crash. I am like Wow... I had a bad feeling
Great video, Keep it up Allec
Allec, I have been watching airline incident videos for almost a year now. On other channels I see glamorous intros, glossy narration, and some have a tad bit better graphics. BUT, every time I find myself comparing them to yours. You by far are the clear winner! Clear, concise information. Presented in a way to illustrate the aviation enthusiast's interests in a rational and straight to the point way. I feel this format is the standard for successful videos and please don't change a thing! PS is it possible for you to do a video on the Lion Air 737 crash or other 737 MCAS incident? I'd be interested! Keep up the spectacular work. GT
That 727 was a thing of beauty, and comfortable too, and in that silver red blue livery, i remember flew eastern.great interior and great service, those were the days
This is the first time I have liked a video by Allec. Now I will subscribe to him, and watch all of his videos. Thank you, RUclips!!!! 🙏❤️
I’ve heard about this crash since I was a young kid from the U.S. Virgin Islands 🇻🇮 St.Thomas where I live today. Sorry for those who lost there lives back then. Now in 2018 the runway is much longer for stopping
Monumental eFFup by El Capitan. The 27 had monster short field capabilities, even when only using F30. That thing could STOP but it had to be on the runway first, right?? Boeing built it with Nose Gear Brakes as well but almost no one bought them because the plane already had good short-field performance.
Those old JT8s were slow to spool, he surely knew that. At my airline having them "spooled up" was required at 500' or you were supposed to go around. So, we got slow early, got the gear and flaps out, and then got to target IAS and applied power to get the engines spooled. You then used throttle and pitch to manage the whole beautiful mess down to land IN THE touch down zone. Once you closed the throttles for landing (at roughly 30-50' depending on energy state) you were pretty much committed to LANDING because of the spool up time. Unless you were at Kennedy, Ohare, etc. Someplace with LONG asphalt. He never should have pushed those throttles up once they were closed. Short runway, use 40, get it down and get on the brakes now. No time for a greaser. Oh well, we learned a LOT from the accidents and incidents from the early jet age.
Thank you for your Aviator pilot insight and experience on those lead sleds. Those P&W JT8Ds was loud , very loud . I don't miss them at all.
I truly appreciate your contribution. Even the visuals to St. Thomas were accurate. I honestly never knew of this accident.
SJU baby!!🇵🇷 That incident was well brocasted here in PR. I think it also led for them to make the runway longer.
You’re at SJU? Do you know if they’ll ever get that people-mover working?
RickySTT Right now all is a blur🤷🏽♂️
I fly into Saint Thomas regularly and it is a bit tight even at 7000 feet. It also has a displaced threshold. When you land on what is now runway 10 you are aimed right at the mountains on the other side so it can get tight very quickly.
maxsmodels just like at ST MARTIN .
St Barts is way worse and way shorter than St Thomas. But only small planes can land there.
...unless you have wicked headwinds.
These ones from the 70s fascinate me. It's crazy to me that commercial airliners have been around for so long and people actually got onto these fucking things.
We moved a gas station from the East end of the runway at Blacksburg Va (KBCB) for just that reason. The area is now a park.
Very well presented.
Convair 440s are no turboprops, in fact they are the original R-2800 piston-engined version. The Convairs converted to the Allison 501 turboprops are called Convair 580s.
Jet engines are not like a car engine, spooling up takes time, using a lower flap setting when dealing with ground turbulence may have helped, but choosing to go around halfway down the runway bad mistake. The TAM latest crash in San Paulo. Certainly proved gas station are a bad choice to place anywhere near the end of a runway
This was Carnival Week on St. Thomas. Will never forget.
Was you there on Vacation or did you live there? I am born , raised and live on St Thomas.
It was my birthday the day that crash happened. We stood by the bridge by french town watching the ambulances or any emergency vehicle screaming by taking the people to the hospital.
It'd be interesting to know how much time the captain had in jet planes vs. pistons.
The power curve is way different in a jet than a piston. When you advance the throttles in a piston, thrust will increase immediately. In a jet, especially back then, it takes a few seconds for thrust to increase.
On a short runway, you don't have a few seconds.
I wonder if the captain was used to the instant response of a piston engine and simply forgot that a jet takes longer.
RR KNL The NTSB Report is available for free online. The Captain had 22,225 hours of total time including 10,000 in the B-727. He had previously made 154 landings in St. Thomas. So no, lack of experience or recency or experience in jets weren't an issue in this accident though it was certainly a worthwhile question.
Thanks!
That's pretty highly experienced. He should have been very accustom to the lag in thrust.
With 154 landings on that runway you would think he would have it down to a formula. If flaps 40 worked before, why change?
Me too. But I just dunno why they fast land and didn't max break. With engine reverse and spoilers.
Not all in the NTSB report, but the plane experienced a pressurization problem on descent, causing everyone's ears to pop painfully, and temporarily impaired their hearing. A much later human factors study on this accident concluded that when your hearing is impaired, it can affect one's judgement, in particular it has been shown that impaired hearing can cause a impairment in vision, in this case the pilot could have thus misjudged how much runway was remaining. Speculative but but potentially relevant. (Can't find this on web. It pays to read books sometimes!)
I look forward to every video you post fam.
I remember this one as was going to St. Thomas every year since 1970 (on American). Passengers were also transferred from St. Croix to St. Thomas by Antilles airboats also on contract with AA. Heard they were going to lengthen the runway even more but became unnecessary due to the much higher power of modern planes.
John Watson I first flew there in anAA. B727-100 in 1985, I never flew out in airboats, however that runway was extended, I believe twice, it extends out in the ocean,Flew AA B757 the last time, nothing to do with this but I won’t fly AA EVER AGAIN,,,,,, LUGGAGE, A 97% seperation from luggage.
Yes as I said they extended the runway to its current length of 7000 in 1992 - apparently after the accident there was a much smaller extension from the original 4600 ft. in the 1980’s. 7000 is still relatively short and as noted there was talk of lengthening it further but it’s not as important with modern high-power aircraft (St. Croix has a 10,000 ft. runway). Have flown American maybe 100 times and never had a problem but that’s the way it goes -
@@johnwatson3948 in my opinion i think the runway should be lengthing a little more even with the more powerful aircrafts. The runway is still marginal at 7000 ft.
Yes - I think when I last landed there it had been lengthened but they still came in looking like we were about to touch down on the water - only to have the runway shoot underneath a second before the wheels hit.
Excellent piloting. Expert professionals, tier one, top of the line, best of the best.
Wonderful comment. Extremely meaningful and constructive, perfect.
great presentation thank you so much..loved it
Allec Joshua Ibay,
pls accept one of my suggestions:
- Uberlingen mid-air collision (atc confusion; Peter Nielsen, controller, killed by Vitaly Kaloyev 1 1/2 year later)
- Air Philippines Flight 541 (pilot error, deadliest crash in Philippine history)
- Iran Air Flight 655 (accidental airliner shootdown)
- Ethiopian Airlines Flight 961 (fuel exhaustion due to hijacking; water landing)
- Siberian Airlines Flight 1812 (accidental airliner shootdown)
- Air France Flight 66 (uncontained engine failure)
- Metrojet Flight 9268 (terrorist bombing; ceased operations same year)
Edit: As well as:
- Flydubai Flight 981 (crashed during second attempted go-around)
Did u even check the videos because i'm pretty sure i've seen multiple of the ones you mentioned and i haven't seen even close to all of the videos.
pui pui Im just saying those suggestions. :)
Garuda Indonesia flight 152, Most deadliest aviation accident in Indonesia and In the world in 1997
I had never even known about this accident until I saw this video.
I don't know what the runway length was but landing in some of the islands is very demanding because of their short runway length. When things go wrong, it is critical that the right choices are made to address the problem. Obviously, the flight crew was hesitant to make the right choice when several options were available. The flight crew should have been thoroughly briefed prior to landing on missed approach procedures! The approach was not stabilized from the start!
Harry Truman Airport (now named Henry L Rohlson) is on St Croix, not St Thomas.
I used to fly Eastern Airlines 72s San Juan to HST in the 70s. A terrifying, short "hop" with much turbulence and steep descents. Good thing the runway extended!
Thought that they retired flight numbers after a crash. AA 625 is a current flight between San Diego and Phoenix if you search it!
Ultimately, the NTSB attributed this crash to pilot error on the approach - for example the maximum flap setting of 40 degrees was never applied, which meant that the aircraft's speed was 10 knots (19 km/h; 12 mph) higher than VREF as it crossed the runway threshold. This, combined with the fact that the aircraft 'floated' from the turbulent winds in the area, meant that it was already 2,300 feet (700 m) down the runway at the point of touchdown. The pilots did not act quickly enough on the brakes and proceeded to go full-throttle three seconds after touchdown. However, they were unable to reach take-off speed because the 727's engines are slow-responding, taking about 6.6 seconds to power up. After five seconds of waiting for power, and with only 700 feet (210 m) of runway left, the pilot panicked, according to the report, and applied full brakes. Further, the pilot forgot to apply reverse engine thrust until immediately before impact. Ultimately, the aircraft ran off the end of the runway and into a Shell gas station, killing 37 (35 passengers and two flight attendants) of the 88 on board. 38 other passengers and crew were injured and one person on the ground was seriously injured. The probable cause was the captain's actions and his judgment in not being aware that when he touched down 2,300 feet (700 m) into the 4,658-foot (1,420 m) runway, he did not have enough distance to perform a go-around.[3] en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Airlines_Flight_625
So this was all avoidable pilot error, but the airline acted as if it was a problem with the runway length?
Also, could we fade into the engine sounds at the start? Great videos, but they do tend to start with a sudden roar.
shorter runway equals shorter room for error...THis is back in the 70s . Better safe than sorry in my opinion. They never closed the route
I used to fly into this airport all the time from San Juan as a child in the early 70s, but on a small 19-seater plane. The airport was tiny and surrounded by mountains on 3 sides. No room for error.
This is an instance where I completely sympathize with the pilot error. While the flaps should have been extended to the maximum 40 degrees, the runway pretty much limited any room for error or mistake. Better to be safe than sorry in regards to runway length, as human error will always be a factor and you must account for that fact.
I wonder how many would have survived had there not been a goddamn gas station at the end of the runway.
How was it pilot error if it was the turbulence that didn't let the plane touch the ground? 🤔
To be fair, it was a contributing factor. If the RWY was longer this might not have happened.
I love these videos - amazing work!!
Because of this accident, I got a job flying a CV440with Antilles Airboats dba American Inter-Island. One of the captains, Ron Gilles, was from Australia and had thousands of hours in large flying boats like the Sandringham. He told tales of landing on lighted waterways in Australia during the war. To my surprise, he said there was only one row of floating lights, which made sense. His wife, Noreen, passed and is buried in St. Croix. After Charlie Blair killed himself and a few passengers when he crashed a Grumman Goose into the harbor in St. Thomas, his widow, Maureen O'Hara Blair ran the airline for a while until American Airlines took the operation over. We all hoped it would be a back door into AA, but it was anything but. I'd have been better off staying with PRINAIR. Coulda, woulda, shoulda. Ron ferried Charlie Blair's Sandringham back to England and retired to Australia. He was a joy to fly with. If you could get the ATC recording and dub it in or at least add the conversations with ATC and in the cockpit, it would be an enhancement. It would have been typical for the tower to tell them to report over (i.e. call) Savanna.
Very insightful Barry. I am born, raised and typing from St Thomas. I was born Dec 78 so i do not remember Antilles airboats but remember the Grumman G-73 Mallards operating from water front by the post office seaplane docks in the 80's 90's and fly ( not pilot, as a passenger) the current seaborne DHC-6 amphibian twin otters. I think my cousins mother (by being late) mist that flight when the Grumman goose crashed. Was you here in the 80's? I kind of remember there was a guy flying helicopter tours with a MD-500 that was painted red white and blue like the US flag. I think he hit the mast of a sailboat and crashed sink. Do you know or remember this? Thanks
Al keep up the good work bud, nearly 10 Gs of B747 airline hours and still loving your work.
After seeing how crashes also happen after planes touch the runway or when they are seconds away from touching the ground, I will never relax until and unless the plane I am in enters the taxiway upon landing.
I was in deployment and travelling aboard a C-5 Galaxy which clipped another plane upon taxiing. From then on, I always keep my seatbelt firmly fastened until the plane stops in it's hack.
This is one of the three crashes Raymond Babbitt cited as reason for not flying in the movie Rain Man.
One thing about the graphics. I've landed in STT/TIST many times. There are hills/mountains to the east of the airport so you can't see the water of the bay beyond the ridgeline from the runway at all. The video shows the 727 going off the end of the runway towards water? It is impossible to see the water heading east. You don't see the bay until you are a couple of hundred feet above the airport. This is why it is VERY RARE to see anyone land on 28.
At last! United Airlines Flight 811! Thx so much, Allec! Next on Air Disasters: FS2004 - Fire On Board (Swissair Flight 111)
He already made Swissair flight 111, check it out.
terrible trajedy, bless them all...
Like Mr Sanders, I remember this incident vividly. My family was living in St Thomas at the time, and my father worked there for the FAA. He was involved in the accident investigation. As for "Fully Spooled's" foolish comment, the gas station long pre-dated the era of jet traffic into that airport. St Thomas had only recently become accessible to commercial jet aircraft traffic when this accident occurred. And as noted in the video, such traffic was largely curtailed in the wake of this incident and until the runway was extended several years later. The gas station plus an entire hill a couple of hundred feet high were removed when the runway was lengthened. But even then, passengers were still deplaned via stairs onto the tarmac and picked up their luggage from a former military aircraft hangar left over from World War II. There was no modern terminal building until 1990.
Good input DesertSkies120 Your YT handle name sound like your living in Vegas NV now.
I have a question if you can answer and dont mind answering it.... I see 3 photos of the Crash and it looks like the 727 turned sideways in front the gas station with its nose ( whats left of it ) pointed towards downtown and a big burnt black spot in the middle with the 3 engine T tail section at the rear.
www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fcdn.aviation-safety.net%2Fphotos%2Faccidents%2F19760427-1-C-1.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Faviation-safety.net%2Fdatabase%2Frecord.php%3Fid%3D19760427-1&docid=GLFtCWtvB5wYSM&tbnid=Bi3K362mkbLx5M%3A&vet=10ahUKEwiFspyr8PLcAhUtq1kKHZIJCywQMwhHKAowCg..i&w=760&h=540&bih=662&biw=1366&q=crash%20at%20harry%20s%20truman%20airport&ved=0ahUKEwiFspyr8PLcAhUtq1kKHZIJCywQMwhHKAowCg&iact=mrc&uact=8
www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sandcastlevi.com%2Fimages%2Ftravel_isles%2Fs-apr76a.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sandcastlevi.com%2Ftravel%2Fisles%2Fdisastr6.htm&docid=2uas979NZuiutM&tbnid=KTRHCaH2XwCRyM%3A&vet=10ahUKEwiM3diH5vLcAhUH0FkKHWKIBnYQMwg-KAEwAQ..i&w=300&h=225&bih=662&biw=1366&q=crash%20at%20harry%20s%20truman%20airport&ved=0ahUKEwiM3diH5vLcAhUH0FkKHWKIBnYQMwg-KAEwAQ&iact=mrc&uact=8
Do you know or feel that the passengers that perished in the crash so come to smoke and fire because they did not get out the jet in time ??? It looks like the gas station did not explode in the photos. It was the week of Carnival here too... that sucked. I am born, rasied and live on St Thomas.
@@leonswan6733 I was a child when the accident occurred, so I do not remember the specific details. And my father, who was part of the FAA's local investigative team, is deceased so I cannot ask him. As for my RUclips name, no, I do not live in or anywhere near Las Vegas. The desert in the southwestern mainland encompasses an enormous area stretching from West Texas to the California coast and from the Mexican border to northern Nevada and southwestern Utah. Technically, even Los Angeles is a "desert city." But I live in Palm Springs, California, about 100 miles east of Los Angeles and about 200 miles south-southwest of Las Vegas.
@@DesertSkies120 OK sorry to here that about your dad. Vegas and Cali are the only places in mainland US. i need to see one day.
Eastern continued using Jet service into st Thomas long after American decided not to. The crash was pilot error. Eastern never had any problems with the short runway. They even start flying the larger version the 727-200s on the same runway before it was extended. I even think that AA resumed jet service even before the runway was extended using Airbus 300s. Which was much larger than the 727s.
@@bandit4true The runway extension from 4200 to 7000 feet was completed in 1992. American began using A-300s on the St Thomas route in 1994.
Alec, thanks for this one, know the field. ,.
I’m first here I was doing something important but an air disasters video is WAY more important than school work
Some pilot Called TB exactly!
Hmmmm.....better do your school work......rather than doing watching air disaster video doing school work is better....because after watching an air disaster video, sorrow comes in humans (I am talking about humans....not those idiots who have no empathy,brain and work for their own profit...)
You missed how many hours the captain has. Just an FYI. Your videos are excellent!
Flaps 40?!? They couldn’t even manage to set flaps to 40?? That is such an extreme slat deployment that once you landed and started braking, the plane damn near would have started going on reverse. Hell at 40, the lift would be betrayed so extremely at anything over 100 kts that the damn plane would basically start digging itself into the ground.
My Pop-Pop flew the 727 for eastern airlines and he was telling me a story about this flight. He is an interesting old man, he was chuckling to himself about how « American Airlines overran the runway at st. Thomas » then I find this, interesting.
I remember those days when HST had a Quonset hut for a terminal building and a 5,000 foot runway. At the departure end of runway 9 (now 10) there was a mountain. Jets departing took on just enough fuel to get to St. Croix where they would top off. Since the runway was lengthened to 7,000 feet and the mountain flattened, large jets can fully fuel and safely take off. The 757 is the best plane for that short field as it can climb at a very steep angle. The 727's didn't have that kind of power.
I am from and live on STT. I love to see and hear the B757 take-off, clime high then turn left to north west over Magen's bay beach when i am there. Beautiful sight and sound. They should do ( 757) every take-off.
Very sad. Hard to second guess this crew. When adrenaline starts pumping, everything takes longer in our minds. Plus, in addition to normal spool up lag in a turbofan engine, these Pratt and Whitney JT-8Ds were low bypass where the fans don't "bite" into the air nearly as quickly as today's high bypass models. I know lots of 727 crews avoided that last flaps setting to 40 degrees, because of other trade offs, to where it just becomes a habitual thing. For noise abatement, many crews limited it to 30 degrees, which required much lower throttle settings for a stabilized approach. 40 degrees would have been great because the crew could have initiated a go around by reducing flaps to 30 degrees quicker than the turbo lag, which would also be far less due to the higher power setting. However, on turbulent days, more flaps means more float, and braking action is reduced due to less normal force acting on the landing gear for a given payload, resulting in possible wheel lockup. It's really complicated, actually. Main problem was too short of a runway, which American obviously knew.
George Mallory yeah I’m sure there was lots of noise abatement in the in the 70s. I flew the 737 200 series with the same engines no problem with spool up time. Trying to get a nice landing and floats like crazy.
This must have happened before the FAA mandated the restriction of using a max of 30°. They were having too many accidents by having high sink rate low EPR situations. There is a physical pin that was installed to block off the 40° flap handle detent. A girl I was dating who had been a UAL captain on the 727-200 told me about the "Formaldehyde glide"...low power...flaps forty and super high sink rate. I I recall correctly, spoolup time from flight idle to max epr was like 12 seconds. He said he always demonstrated this to new '72 1st officers. There were three or four crashes initially after the 727's started flying. The wing of the 727 created so much lift and then drag with the triple slotted flaps and leading edge slats plus speed brakes.
When the 727 was new flaps 40 was the normal landing flap. Most airlines eventually made Flaps 30 the norm. Most had the 40 position blocked off. My company used 30 as normal, but 40 was available. There is a huge difference when you use 40. If you had idle power the 727 had the glide of a brick at flaps 40.
Use to fly a Piper Cherokee from St. Croix to St. Thomas in the early seventies. That runway was a challenge for the big jets in that there was a hill at the end of the runway. We figure that it took time for the Airlines to get their belly full of the obstacle and have the runway lengthen minus the hill. Take offs consisted of the Jets extending their tall over the west end of the runway with brakes and spooling up the engines before releasing the brakes and praying nothing happen between then and the hill on the other end.
Scary
Why in gas station?why not in something less dangeorus like just in some fence? RIP ALL WHO DIED
I did my investigation on exactly where the plane hit ( Look at my comments up top ) and i found 3 photos of the crash. 2 color, 1 overhead that is black and white from maybe a helicopter. It looks like to me that the gas station did not really explode like we all think. Most gas stations fuel tanks are under ground, and in the color crash photo that is taken from ground level like about 200 ft or so from wreckage, i see the Shell logo sign and car port overhang roof where the pumps would be still intact. They are behind the burnt rear fuselage of the 727 that seems to be more in the street. Buildings that are right there are not destroyed like what would be expected from a big gasoline explosion. It is possible that just the planes remaining onboard fuel burnt and destroyed the plane. The passengers that perished just did not get out in time.
Leon is correct. There's normally not of gas in a gas station available to burn. A dispenser will have less than a gallon in the piping, filters, etc. The tanks underground are not pressurized so even if you shear the dispensers off, not much happens. Although, in some Caribbean stations, they do have above ground tanks. So that may or may not have been a factor.
Another factor in the amount of fuel on board a plane is price. For example, Miami sells a lot of fuel because it's cheaper to buy it there, fly it to the Caribbean, then minimize the fuel you need to take on in the Caribbean destination. Even coming from LGA it might have been cheaper to to haul extra fuel and reduce fueling in VI. So this plane may have had more fuel than it need just to get there with safety factor. Hard to say.
There seemed to be a lot of something burning.
@@noooddle even if the tanks were near empty, the fumes are super volatile
Is it scary or sad that I have watched so many of these videos that when the flaps were extended, I said "No, that's wrong!" And when the pilot stated "I'll go around!" I replied "Aint gonna happen!" Last, when the plane kept rolling forward, I was like "WTH?! Where are the reverse thrusters?!" And I don't know a dang thing about airplanes!!!!
It's always good to study and learn new wisdom
It's a small thing but a Convair 440 is not a turboprop. It has reciprocating engines. A Convair 580 is a turboprop.
Also there are Convair 600&640 turboprops
You are correct. The Convair 600 was a Convair 240 airframe and the 640 was a Convair 340/440 airframe. Both had Rolls Royce Dart engines. Those engines screamed.
Wow that’s that’s where I live st.thomas Virgin Islands 🇻🇮 I wasn’t born until 1981 of October
interestingly enough flaps 40 was blocked on the pedestal with a bolt and spacer because of inability for a successful go around at greater than 30 deg not too long after on every 727 I worked on up to their retirement.
Just as an fyi a Trans Caribbean Airways Flight 505 had a similar mishap a few years prior also using a B727. Amazing that 727s can even opera from such short runways (Truman was around 4,600 ft long back then).
I have been asking and trying to get Allec to do TCA 505 for 2 years now. He just ignores me.
From what I understand at some point flaps 40 was disabled on the b727 because of the danger of increased drag and sink rate at low speed setting up conditions that could easily become unstable so not sure if it was before or past this point.
I like that you didn't show anything from the crash , I guess im not feeling too well tonight
Nice video, great animation.
Thanks for posting.
I spent my honeymoon in St Thomas and American still used flight number 625 for the flight from JFK-STT. Usually after a fatal crash the airline retires the flight number, The crash happened 6 years earlier and the runway had been lengthened and a the only way I can describe it is a hole had been cleared from the mountain at the end of the runway to allow the plane to make a sharp right turn immediately after takeoff. We made the landing OK with another Boeing 727-100 but when the pilots hit the threshold of the runway the reverse thrust, spoilers and brakes were applied hard. My seat cushion was sliding out from under me. We did the usual (at that time) flight crew at the exit door thank you etc and I commented to the Captain, thanks for the great job, not a lot of asphalt under those wheels his answer was "you're very much welcome and no sir.
Reverse thrust, chop the throttles... hey....
Was I the only one staring at my screen saying "stop, stop, stop!" to the animated plane? I wasn't familiar with this accident until just now, so I was hoping the outcome wouldn't be too bad.
That was me 100%. It's like watching a movie. When the pilots rammed the balls to the wall and the plane didn't accelerate I was like "what! Oh shit!"
It should be noted however the captain had made 154 landings on this runway in the same type 727 previous to this crash.
I have more suggestions for videos the mid air collision involving bashkarian airlines flight 2937 and DHL flight 611, delta airlines flight 91, Japan airlines flight 6832, Air France cargo flight 892, china airlines flight 140, Korean airlines flight 9727, Lufthansa flight 2904, air pacific airlines flight 329, British airways flight 009, XL airlines flight 002, LAPA flight 3142, fly Dubai flight 981, eastern airlines flight 304, Varig flight 820, UTA flight 772, Nigeria airlines flight 2120, trans Canada airlines flight 831, Iran air flight 655, BEA flight 548, air inter flight 148, Inex Adria flight 1308 all of those are I think great suggestions also for you to upload in the future.
Alaska Air flight 261
Is that all you've got? ;-)
The music at the end of these videos is a good choice.
back in the day flaps 40 for landing were used; but then there was a string of accidents due to high drag, too slow....then they kept us from using 40 for landing, instead placing a bolt on the flap quadrant to prevent selecting it..so, we landed with 30 degrees and that was plenty and a better ratio between lift and drag....BTW, you depict a 727-200 instead of the actual aircraft in question which was a stubby...a 100
He’s been flying for American since 1941 and is a WWII veteran, WWII didn’t start until Dec of 41
ww2 started at 3 Sept. 1939 when France and Britain declared war to Germany.
Its hard to imagine you NOT thinking reverse thrust, spoilers, max brakes full flaps to STOP YOUR PLANE!!!
john knowing there are many weak crew in the airline industry. Once they make a decision then they have to live with it. Especially at an airport like this
Gus Maestrales I agree. But 3 people in the cockpit and youd think someone would say dont forgot to throw the anchor out we need everything to stop the plane meaning EVERYTHING
john knowing Actually it’s never really a good idea to have a third person in the cockpit as I think it draws attention away from the sterile cockpit. Yes that I got it you take it situation While taking off or landing is such a horrible mess up when you make a decision you have to live by it it would’ve been better off to land the plane and when they felt like they were going to overrun pull the gear up she would stop they did like I say I got it you take it I got it you take it and made a horrible mistake
For all who occasionally visit this video and comments, get ready for this!!!!
If you read my previous comments about the black and white photo i goggled search and found of the crash ( I found a eye level color one taken from the area of the highway too ) Do a google search images of both and you will find 3 of AA flight 625. type in:
( Crash at Harry S Truman airport) ., The buildings and spot of the crash in regards to the current puma gas station and surrounding buildings was always odd to me. I chopped it up as " it was re-built and that was 42 years ago...". i was looking at the current goggle earth photo of the airfield, looking at the old runway 09 ( which is now a parallel taxiway left side in relation to the current active RWY 10-28 ) and i saw something ! There is a straight line of distortion in the grown grass which is the extended center line of the old RWY 9 of the crash!!! I followed it straight to where it crosses the airfield perimeter fence and the 4 lane highway, right into a area / building about 250 ft or so west ( in goggle earth, LEFT along the highway ) of the current puma gas station. I put up the photo of the crash next to my goggle earth image... changed angles of the goggle earth image, zoomed in on the crash photo and compared the shapes and sizes of the roof tops of buildings. THEY MATCHED !!!!!!! This area is where the plane hit the " back then " Shell gas station !!!!! They moved the current gas station up the street!!! But guess what.... The current runway leads straight into that gas station. Go into goggle earth, St Thomas airport and see for yourselves.
I need a thumbs up for this detective/ satellite imagery analysis intell work. I think i should do my first youtube video about this.. at the exact scenes on St Thomas. What do you guys think??
Gah, I wish they still had that livery. BLING
Great video. I wasn't aware of this accident. I fly into St Thomas frequently and it's common to have issues departing but not landing. And yes the last 30ft there is always turbulent.
I didn't know the runway was lengthened. How short was it before?
Billy brooks, have some respect... seriously you immature child.
TheProPilot, in 1954 the runway was 1800'
In 1968 the runway was 3600'
In 2002 the runway was 4650'
bviaa.com/content/history-civil-aviation-bvi
Bill Brooks, get out of here you underaged kid, and by the way, congratulations on your first comment without a curse word! Also, I can help you come up with a better insult than just "Mr. Spongebob".
Captain Bob lol
First comment without vulgur language
Captin bob thanks fo the data, and timeline, been there a few times, first times were on B727, BUT LAST WAS A B 757 AMERICAN., I guess 1985. It’s an INTERESTING FIELD
Its quite a horror a gas station would be at the end of a runaway overrun area. It would be better if the car gas stations relocate or shut down that are near airports.
this happened after a southwest plane overran the runway and ended up parked at a gas station in north la.. nobody got hurt either
CommodoreCrusher9000TM Pictures that accident also took out some lights, and nav aids for that airport, but the gas station, made it that much worse. Tough field.
Imagine being a passenger and the plane sets down on the runway, you think, good, we're down and safe, only now the plane does not have enough runway to stop safely. I wonder how many had already unbuckled their seat belts and were beginning to gather their stuff.....
Hey, can you do Turkish airlines 345 please
(and great video i love it!)
Bill Brooks what does that have to do with his request though. Problematic lopsided dick
Bill Brooks holy shit
peachy stroni ignore him.
When you're an airline pilot, you're responsible for everyone on board. No pressure.
Pilots know, if they get there safely, so will the passengers
5:26 to end. We flew to St. Thomas at the end of September, 1980 and did what the NTSB changes made. JFK to ST. Croix in a AA B-707 then the props to St. Thomas. I asked why not direct and they answered runway not long enough and they are lengthening. I think they had to build out onto water. Wasn't aware of this incident.
No max breaking?!?! Jesus...full reverse thrust..max breaking...flaps on full !!!!!! I wonder why they didn't do it.?!?!
It has been said in the incident report that not too long before the crash they experienced a painful decompression malfunction that could of had the aircrew stunned and not doing things correctly. But it still is hard to swallow that the pilot flew into St Thomas many times and should of known to set spoilers, flaps, and give full reverse thrust as soon as his main tires touch the pavement with full braking when his nose gear touch as well.
Oh its so smart having gas stations at the end of a runway.
Agreed..SMH 🙄
Only if we could have a runway that’s unlimited and endless so planes could always touch down safely. 😔 RIP
Unfortunately, like a lot of accidents this was a bad chain of events. If the wind hadn’t picked up the aircraft at that critical moment the accident may have been avoided. Certainly, they would have touched down sooner and not overrun the runway.
In every incident where people have been killed, we need to remember them and their loved ones, who carry the pain of losing their loved ones.