Electric Honda Beat Conversion - Episode 13 - The Next Step
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- Опубликовано: 14 окт 2024
- Ok, change of plans.
🥼 Merch! newzeroland.cr...
🏍 Vehicles: 1994 Honda Beat + 2018 Energica Ego
🥝 Location: New Zealand
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newzeroland -
#energica #hondabeat #electricconversion
As a lot of you have mentioned, mounting the heavy battery that far back and that far up is totally not the way to go, so the plan will change again 😅
Probably best to put it as close to the floor as possible. Can the cells be taken apart and re-arranged into a tray that could fit under the floor? (like a Tesla battery for example)
Do you have to keep the Energica battery? I'm finding they're not reliable, so it might be worth building your own custom battery that can fit wherever you want it to.
@@DefiantAML nope.. the car is so low there's no room under it at all. There's an option of putting it in the passenger's seat but then I'd be forever alone lol.
@@spike_spencer I'm trying to keep it as simple as possible, and upgradeable in the future to potentially swap in a 21.5kWh pack, so it has to have the same mounts.
Can you... cut out that bit of bodywork still. Rotate the diff up 90 degrees and mount the motor above it? Sliding the battery in, in front of it, up closer to the firewall like the original plan?
It's not hot rodding, it's watt rodding 👍
😂⚡🔋💪 I like it haha
So instead of a rat rod it's an electric eel rod?
Yippee!!!!!!!!!!!!! its been a while
Yeah! At my pace it'll be another coupla months before the next one 😂
Hell Yeah!! Diff rear end looks sooo much better! Will hopefully be quieter too.
Production quality on this video was up a notch. I like the shoes stop motion and the before and after of the primer shots. And that 3D model ghosted inside the engine bay matched to the camera angle is insane!
So glad you colour matched the engine bay and didn't go with black. It looks so much more professional, even factory. Maybe your goal should be making it look like it just rolled out of factory, you know, inspire Honda to do it for real. Speaking of, Honda on the brake reservoir really looks like it just came like that.
Awesome awesome video man!!
Thanks so much man!! That's a really cool idea, and I'd love to make it look factory in the end. Like an option when you ordered the car in an alternate 90's dimension. Electric, please 😂 I'll try my best!
Im a fellow beat owner and self proclaimed sim racer and tuner, and i gotta say that this is a super cool build, but that there are a few things from a handling and safety perspective that id worry about if i were you. adding 100kg that high up and that far back into a 700kg car will have an extreme handling impact. You should make room under the car for a serious custom anti-rollbar upgrade. the added body roll from the battery may even pick the inside wheel up off the ground in a corner with the beats suspension configuration. Im sure youve anticipated that the handling characteristics will change, but for this car to stay safe it will need the help of an anti-rollbar to keep it flat on the road. Also, please consider the extra negative rear wheel camber youll need to keep the battery from crushing and overstressing the outside rear tire under high g cornering as well as the inside toe angle required to keep the car stable during quick turns and avoidance maneuvers. Depending on the suspension and axle geometry you choose to use, you may limit the options at your disposal to improve the cars safety down the road. Im super stoked to see where you take this build! may end up being the fastest Beat in the world soon.
Hey thanks man! I agree 100% with all of that and definitely need to figure out a way to get the battery lower and behind the seats like the engine was. I'll keep thinking of stuff and talk with the engineer about it. And nah, there's a K-swapped Beat in Australia with 180hp so he's definitely faster 😂
@@NewZeroland i think my 2nd comment messed up earlier so ill type it again. Basically my idea was to take apart the energica battery case and store the individual battery cells throughout the car. This would give you the advantages of being able to distribute the weight throughout the whole car and well as design your own custom cooling system. You could either use a heat sink system or a radiator system and cool the battery cells that way. you could even use the vents on the grille and behind the doors as functional vents. Based on the article ill link in my next comment it looks like the energica battery case needs air flowing over it to cool itself anyways so its an issue youll need to solve regardless of your storage choice.
@@NewZerolandlooks like i cant post links in youtube comments which caused my comments to be deleted, but i searched 'energica battery cells' on google and clicked the first link to a website called crpmeccanica. the article seems to have a lot of information on how the battery housing works and may give you clues on how to dissect it and use its cells
@@dawsonbeltram7419 that's a cool idea but I want to keep the battery in tact and use the original mounts so I can someday swap in a bigger pack in the same place. Taking the battery apart is way more work and risk than I want with this project.
@@NewZeroland i understand not wanting to take it apart. After all im not sure what the inside of the battery case looks like. But, if i had to guess, id say they look like a typical 'Li-NMC' rectangular battery cell. Those cells are basically the same as miniature car batteries or jumbo 9v battery. Theyre easy to wire in circuit individually, which is how battery packs work in electric vehicles.
You never know, if you looked into it you may find that its easier than you think. The biggest challenge i can imagine youd face with this strategy would be with the brain inside the energica battery housing. but if thats something that will work when wired in with the batteries then it wouldnt pose an issue either. It may even be easier than fitting the whole battery in.
Anyways im just a major performance nerd with cars. im sure using the battery pack whole will work too. id just worry about cooling that thing. you may need to 3d print a duct to channel air from the trunk vents and side ports to the aluminum air cooling channel on the battery housing. worst case scenario, maybe even that doesnt work and you have to wire a radiator fan to pull air across the battery.
Make sure you can get to the oil cap and drain plug for maintenance when it comes up. If you have that thing bolted in and attached to that diff you may not be able to get to it without a fight. Lookin good man :)
Great point! I wouldn't wanna drop the motor every 10k 😂 This whole plan may change when I get it to the shop again.
@@NewZerolandAlthough dropping that motor would be a breeze compared with any ICE motor...
Good to see the project progressing Sam, love the AI modelling of the Battery/Diff fit. This is going to be an absolute gem when you finish.
Thanks! No AI here, just 3D scans and my own modeling by hand. Although maybe AI can help me find a better spot for the battery 😂
Great to see an update! Could you imagine towing a car w/a 3 in the States? Everyone would freak out!
Would they?? Teslas are all over thr place in the US. I would have thought this was a normal sight over there 😂
I put a hitch on my Model S in Australia. I haven't towed a car with it, but I have towed a utility trailer numerous times and have a hitch mount bike rack. Model 3s were designed with towing in mind (a hitch is, or was at one time, a factory option in Europe), but the Model S wasn't. I have got more than a few quizzical looks. 😂
Got my popcorn ready for the next episode, I can't wait!
Coming soon! Maybe tomorrow 😳😂
Nice work, i understand "cofee Suprême"
Haha I don't drink it but my wife loves it 😂
I like the small details, paint those caps green :) - nice progress.
Thanks! I'm leaning toward that too. I'll paint em!
@@NewZeroland i may be too late but i think painting it with the matching colors of the coilovers would be pretty dope
@@alistergoh9744 I did! And they look amazing 😁
I found some Japanese car racing rice bowls online; the obvious choice to be glued atop your suspension caps. Standardisation, re-use of existing parts, and minimal change to structural areas is the go; inspectors are less grumpy (they're always quite grumpy), they are much higher quality parts, they are easy to replace, it minimises troubleshooting (yes, there will be lots, right?) once first assembled. Less time and money often too. You know all this now I'm sure. Also, I have had a Eureka! moment on where to mount the battery; have it coming out through the bonnet and put a shiny, cylindrical air filter holder on the top, a la Hot Wheels hotrod! You know you want to!! Pop in next time you're in Paraparaumu.
HAHAHA ok that's an option I didn't think about 😂 And hell yes to cup noodle strut tower covers. Where do you get these brilliant ideas?? I actually rearranged some stuff and had my own eureka moment tonight so I'll make a follow-up video about it.
@@NewZeroland Cool, hope your eureka is more practical! Mate, too many decades showing and photographing custom Dubs has warped my mind into seeing the potential for 'tricks' everywhere :-/
The chain automotive problem never occurred to me (like I know anything, I don't). Although I own a chain ICE bike I am surprised belts and shaft drives haven't pretty much taken over the consumer side of the motorcycle industry given how (relatively) fussy chains are to maintain on motorcycles as compared to shaft drives or belts. Nice job getting all that rust out. You are cetainly a patient guy. Looking forward to the next Beat episode.
Thanks man! Yeah I've heard great things about shaft drives. Their only downside is weight. Belts are great in theory but I've heard even Harleys snap them every once in a while. Apparently chain drive is still the most efficient, and they're cheaper and easier to swap. The mess is annoying though. I'm glad to go with a sealed unit!
If you have the paint, color match it! excited to see the next episode!
Doin it! Haha thanks bro 😁 And nah.. no space up front. I'll try and figure out a better way to position the motor and diff so the battery can stay low behind the seats.
@@NewZeroland passenger seat 😉
@@ForgeSpace nooooo 😵😂 I can't be a lonely driver!
Glad you like the shoe design! Every video you make you seem to get better and better at 3D modelling, and pushing your video skills forward. I particularly loved the part at 5:42 where you overlapped the video with a 3D model - that must have taken ages!
Thanks man!! I appreciate it 😁 This layout will change once again haha, but it'll get there eventually.
Good things take time , cant wait man!
Cheers Ray!
I agree, if you can deal with the extra weight and space and drive ratio, the direct connection to the MX5 diff is abetter way to go. What will be critical however is getting the two units solidly mounted together with perfect alignment. The MX5 diff doesn't provide much to bolt on to. Good to see the Nugget in your video. Done a few events since then. Changed exhaust to a 2 into 1 to quieten it down. VTR1000F engine. I also like checking the car on the trailer with the rear camera.. I just grabbed the flash drive to see if it still had today's footage but it was overwritten.
Oh yeah! I saw photos of you at Mt Vic. How'd the car do?? The chain and sprocket setup still seems like the lightest/simplest way to go, but it shouts "race car" when I need the Beat to be a street car, unfortunately. I'm hoping the shop will be able to fit it all in there with the MX5 diff. I need to get the battery lower and further forward somehow, so I'll get back to playing with the 3D scans.
Awesome! All is right again when you drop a beat video! Love it.
Cheers! I forgot to put the cat in this episode though 😂
Love how you allow for the project to mature. Yes, chain is always messy and with my motorcycle conversion project it did 'mature' from 10kW frame mounted motor to 8kW hub. I can feel awesomeness with your eBeat.....thanks for sharing.
Cheers man! Even this setup with thr battery so far back needs to change. I'm just going with the flow. Whatever gets this car electric, I'll do it!
@@NewZeroland Did you ever consider splitting the battery into a front and rear part?
@@moestrei yeah definitely.. that was an option at one point but I wanna keep it together and use all the original mounting points so I can have the option of upgrading to the 21.5kWh pack someday. It makes it all that much harder to find space for it all, but it would be worth it in the end.
Battery up front imo. It'll still be so light steering won't be an issue. Try go for a 50/50 weight split. There's always the option of electric power steering. Heaps of good kits around.
I thought about that at the very beginning actually but there isn't enough space for it. The battery is reeeeally big. Power steering could be cool though.
@@NewZeroland if it's that big then it'll screw up your center of gravity being so high in the rear.
Could you rotate the diff so it's facing backwards, engine low in the boot and battery low behind the seats?
Might have to fab up a new breather hole on the diff and weld up the old one.
Motor not engine...
@@reed_reed yeah that's a possibility. Run the motor in reverse. Then it would really be like a Porsche! I'll see what the shop says. Whatever works.
@@NewZeroland duh of course you can spin it backwards. I'm still thinking of engines lol. Makes it all a lot easier.
Could possibly mount the motor and retain your boot space.
Great work... Good luck for the rest...
Cheers!
The Electric Beat! Nce Nce Nce🎶 Cool shoes. Sick vitual comp shots too! Yeah, the first thing I thought when I saw you shift all the weight to the back was "Oh no, under steer!" But that's the great thing about the modular nature of it all, you can mix and match until you finally start bolting stuff in. Not sure I ever saw a color matched strut tower cover, are they all usually black? I suppose you have the option to just be different. Especially, if you still have left over paint.
I might! Shiny green dust covers might be cool haha. I'm still not sure what to do with the battery. Things will probably change again if it gets too unbalanced, so I'll keep you guys posted. Who woulda thought this would be so tricky?
@@NewZeroland to be fair, every ev conversion Ive seen seems to require a little mechanical negotiation. Maybe you can split the battery pack and even out the weight distribution? I don't think I've ever seen the inside of a electric motorcycle battery pack so I do t know it it's any trickier then a say a Tesla battery.
@@TheRealAlpha2 nahh, I did consider that at one point but I wanna keep the battery pack together so I can upgrade to the bigger one someday. Same mounting points will make that easier to do. Otherwise it's way too custom.
What a great episode! Thanks a lot for the upload. I cannot wait to see the next one. Haha, thankfully I am a bit late watching them so there is already a new one :)
Wow you've been busy! Thanks for watching 😁 I'm glad you liked this one.
Yes!!! The chain drive would have been a nightmare to fit and maintain, the differential is a way better idea.
Phew 😂 I'm glad you think so too. I've since changed my mind about where to put thr battery, but the MX5 diff seems like the way to go!
I suggested this in the first video that discussed the chain drive idea. It is a trade-off, but in the long run I think direct or shaft drive will be much easier to live with, and does give more flexibility as to where you put the motor. It might even be possible to leave the battery where it was and put the motor *above* the diff instead of in front of it. That will of course depend on whether the motor and diff are sensitive to orientation. There might be another diff that would be less bulky and allow the vertical (or slanted) input shaft with fewer modifications.
Just brainstorming...
Great to see - awesome job - and such an inspiration! (got my own block to chip away at - very last MOT for my trusty 130k-run '09 H XL1000VA w/ a corr. w-cooler and a slippy clutch - before taking a turn toward an Experia)
Keep pushing & sharing!
Cheers man! Congrats on the Experia 😁
Woot!
You could still go with a chain final drive, just enclose it in an oil tight casing, incorporating the diff too and use an idler wheel to set the chain tension. With an oil lubricated chain, adjustments would be seldom. The casing could be built up out of Aluminium plates. That's how Solectria did it on the Force , a 1990's EV based on a brand new Geo Metro (Suzuki Swift). I've taken some pictures of the built up reduction box (gear internals). I'll link them in a reply, since youtube holds comments with links and doesn't notify you to approve them.
Yeah that was an option too but it still screamed "race car" too much, so the certifier might not like it on the street. NZ is pretty strict about this stuff. I'll figure something out.
That's a whole lot more engineering and fabrication, and the end result isn't going to save space or weight, which are the main reasons to stick with chain drive.
Frankly, I'm not convinced that even an unsealed chain drive would save much of either anyway, especially if you skip the shaft and bolt the motor right to the diff. That Miata has a lot of massive mounting structure, but there are other diffs that would be lighter and more compact and would only require welding on some mounting tabs.
@@awo1fman yeah the shop said they can modify the diff and cut those heavy arms off to make their own. It weighs 30kg, so the chain and sprocket would have been waaaay lighter. There are smaller diffs out there (the Rav4 was an option we were talking about) but it needed to be strong enough to handle the torque and also have high enough gearing to not take forever to get going. We'll see what happens, but I'm super excited about this!
Beats to boot!
8:14 matchy match!
I like that idea!
Nice! One of the biggest reasons not to mount a motorcycle engine sideways is the oil scavenging issues, since it's electric you could mount it however you want as long as you can still change the gearbox fluid since it's Energica.
I may have found a Beat locally for $3k and am trying to see about getting it even though I have too many vehicles as it is. Unfortunately the Energica already died a few weeks ago with an unknown error continuing the streak of my EV motorcycles being the least reliable vehicles I have ever owned.
Oh man, that's a cheap Beat! And whaaat happened to your Energica?? I'm really struggling to find space for everything in this tiny car 😂 I probably should have chosen a Miata instead. There's an electric Tommykaira for sale right now for ~$30k USD that's looking really tempting haha. I realize all of this would be a million times easier with smaller / lighter Zero parts, but I wanted more power + DC charging. Hopefully the struggle is worth it in the end!
I like the Factory5 818 EV conversions, you're already starting with a well built kit car.
I did nothing to the Energica other than ride in the rain a couple of times and according to all the forums they just come up with random critical errors that you can't deal with without the dealership. At least the Zero I can pull the logs for it but no idea what could be wrong with the Energica, thought I was going to take it on a short trip a few weeks ago almost get it pulled out and bam critical known error with no hint as to what the issue is. One person got the same error because the seat microswitch wasn't sitting right, I checked that since I was having to cover the seat with plastic, but that wasn't it and nothing seems to be physically wrong with it.
@@spike_spencer what happened when it errored? What were the symptoms? I get that seat error sometimes and also an ABS thing but keying off and on usually fixes things. Does your bike not run at all now? You mentioned battery problems. I totally agree about the F5 818 kit. There's a dual-Tesla motor version out there somewhere and it's insane. I'm way too far into this project to change cars or powertrains now though haha.
Absolutely nothing had a great ride just the day prior no issues, I put the key in and turned the key to on like I normally do before I get on, then it came up with the error. I didn't have time to deal with it so jumped on the ICE bike that gives me zero problems and has 15 times as many miles on it...Came back the next day, checked the microswitch and tried every combination of everything I could think of to try and cheat code (did the VCU reset thing with all the fun mechanical clicks about 20 times) it into not displaying the error after 15 seconds and the only symptom is the bike won't move with the kickstand up and everything but the error good to go. I'll update once I figure out what horribly expensive thing it turns out to be. However, I'm with other people that this kind of thing is very concerning and just personally glad it didn't happen away from home.
I'd at least know what is wrong if it came up with some kind of a battery issue, but I've been gentle with it since and not hammered the throttle and kept it pegged at top speed for more than a few seconds to keep the battery issues at bay, which seemed to work pretty well up to it not working anymore. I gotta get it fixed so I can sell it and move on from my worst vehicle purchase ever. I'll probably try renting one of the 21.5kWh EGOs one of these days to see if they're that much better after three years, but it's hard to imagine enough improvement for me to ever consider one again.
@@spike_spencer aw man.. sounds like you found one of the very few Energica lemons. Maybe it wasn't maintained properly by the previous owner or something. I have to say, the jump from 13.4 to 21.5 and the new EMCE motors was mind blowing. The old bikes were heavy and performance is no where near what the new ones can do. Definitely test ride one sometime if you can. Hopefully your bike's problem isn't too huge.
Heads up, Energica is nearly bankrupt, you should keep an eye out for cheap parts on auction
Says who? Ideanomics might be, but not Energica.
@@NewZerolandnah man, everyone has been let go, it's pretty much only the r&d guys left
Some of my coworkers are still waiting for their wages from January...
@@riccardo1796 I haven't heard anything about this. Everybody I know there is still employed. Who told you this?
@@NewZeroland heard? I've seen it
I work for a battery manufacturer for industrial vehicles and we've been inundated with CVs
We've already hired 3 technicians with more on the way
@@NewZeroland As IDEX own a big chunk of them, and Energica don't disclose their books, we have to look at IDEX share price history. Less than 4 years ago it was $620 and today it's 92 cents. That doesn't tell the whole story as they may have billions of free cash, signed deals coming out of their ears, and many other rosy investment parameters. But I'd say that's v v unlikely. One explanation as to why Energica joined idex may be because they were in trouble and needed investment from a much larger company, with a plethora of complementary products and services in their portfolio. However, idex may equally have been looking for power plants for one of their businesses, and the best option for them was to buy Energica - especially if they found out they were on their knees and so were a bargain - if indeed they are. IDEX may also have bought them as an esprit de coeur (literally = fatal breath) to try and help themselves stay afloat by adding a potential white knight set of products, again if indeed idex are also in trouble. We can all find out on 2nd April when they disclose their latest earnings report - how exciting, I'm sure you all can't wait. However, the always impeccably groomed and classy Energica CEO (yes, your best buddy Sam!) was interviewed last week and seemed very cherpy about Energica and did a great, if cloaked, sales pitch. This was on an investment channel and there was no mention of figures, and that says to me that the presenter was told not to ask any; if they were overflowing with cash and had a plump pipeline then they would flaunt it. If, however, they're desperate for investors to save them then they'd focus on their expertise and products - which is exactly what she did. I hope I'm wrong and both companies are oozing with value; what do I know about investing anyway - I drive a Nissan Leaf?! This is not financial advice and you may lose your house and your daughters to slavery. Here's the interview: ruclips.net/video/UsYutYfWSCE/видео.html
A solution to the non-ideal battery position might be a second pack up front?
That does of course add a lot of weight, but it might make the general balance of the car a bit more neutral?
(I'm not a suspension geometry specialist so I might be wrong)
I figured out a solution so I'll upload a follow-up video soon.. somehow the simplest solution was right there and I couldn't see it 😂
@@NewZerolandTurn the battery 90° so it's flat instead of vertical? 🤔
Since that 13.4kWh pack is air cooled, are you planning to setup something like a ram air cooler? That would be really cool 😎🤙 ,pun intended 🤣
Haha yeah maybe.. depends where it ends up, but a scoop would be sweet!
@@NewZeroland If the vents behind the doors are functional, you could 3D print some ducting that directs airflow into the center air cooling channel of the 13.4kWh pack maybe 🤷♂️ or find something preexisting.
@@tomsbytes yeah man! Totally possible.
You really like making a rod for your own back don't you! The Energica drive system is forcing you to make so many compromises. Nothing wrong with compromises, nothing gets done without them, but they have to be good ones! A Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV rear motor (same as I-Miev) and gearbox would fit really well in there. In fact, if you really MUST use the Energica motor, remove it's reduction drive and fit it to the Outlander gearbox.
Yeah I greatly underestimated how small it was it the Beat 😂 Honestly a Zero motor and battery would fit so much easier, but I wanted more horsepower and DC fast charging. Don't worry though.. I'll figure something out 😂 Maybe a whole video on different potential arrangements.
TSRIF!
Dude, so exciting and production quality of the videos continues to impress. Just sorry Murphy's Law decided the party of no new taxes won the last election and your baby will cost 75 cents per km from April 1st onwards. And yes, I wish that was an April Fool's joke. Conversion is still 100% worth it, as your fans and supporters have all proven.
Thanks man! But check this out.. there's a loophole. Anything weighing under 1000kg is exempt from road taxes, so our Energicas and also this Beat should be free to drive!
@@NewZerolandWait, what?!?!?! I'm absolutely stunned this hasn't been reported yet and couldn't be more thrilled to hear EV bikes remain - for the time being, exempt. Just as I was feeling guilty for reminding you too.
@@DuncanJimmy yes!! I should make a video about it now that it's almost April. I'm super excited :D
What has happened to NZ since the elections? The other night there was a report about a dude in a shiny new Raptor taking a sledgehammer at Tesla Superchargers in NZ. I always considered NZ to be the country where everyone and their dog is kind...
@@berttroubleyn3475 right?? Well the RUCs had nothing to do with National, but everything else seems to be going down the toilet. Hopefully they aren't in power for long.
Can the pack be tilted like that?
Yeah, no problems there. It doesn't have any liquid in it so it should be fine on its side.
@@NewZeroland the inverter is on top. Are you separating this? The fluid reservoir will need a new location than.
@@RedBatteryHead yep I need to extend the high voltage cables anyway so I'll move the controller and the radiator wherever they fit. There's a functional air vent on the side of the car so I could put the radiator there.