Are Golf R Engine Internals Better than a GTI?
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- Опубликовано: 12 окт 2024
- Both the MK7 Golf R and the MK7 GTI are 2.0T engines that look very similar, BUT make different horse power out of the factory. There is a lot of speculation that Golf R engine internals are all around better to hold more power! What parts are forged vs cast? Which parts are better built? Should i put Golf R parts in my GTI? These are questions we aim to answer!
Today we look at the difference in intake cams‚ exhaust cams‚ cylinder heads‚ pistons‚ piston rods‚ engine blocks‚ crankshafts‚ oil squirters‚ and much more!
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thanks paul, cant wait for the next video in 3 months.
I know! Quality > Quantity as they say 😞
I stopped waiting, new episodes just pop up randomly and they are the best
You're doing the Lord's work here.
and God regularly punishes Paul... commonly seen on video...
So, basically adding 50-60 whp aka a typical stage 1 on a GTI shouldn’t negatively impact engine reliability much. Thanks for doing this!
Yep but i mean we've known this dudes have been running stage one from end of warranty until end of life since the 2.0T came out with the mk5
Nope. And the kicker is if both the GTI and the Golf R engines upgraded their turbos to the same hybrid turbo, and ran the same exact software, both engines would make the same exact power and it’s “reliably threshold” would be exactly the same.
So the moral of the story is that the Golf R’s engine isn’t different enough to actually deem it a stronger engine lol. It’s just all pointless talking points that Golf R owners try to argue to make them feel better about their car…
Just don't go crazy w custom tunes like some start bragging my tune has more power bla bla... Stay w an off-the-shelf tune, those usually are on the conservative side. Do your oil changes maybe 1 to 2k miles earlier, always 93oct regardless if tune is for 89 or 91, run one step colder spark plugs, always let the engine warm up (for me is about 15min of driving) before giving it the beans.
And of course, do your timing chain within the recommended service interval.
These engines run extremely well when tuned, the ECM is super smart and protects the engine against detonation.
Yeah, it will be just as unreliable as it was before.
Stage 1? I'm at stage 3+ with an IS38 turbo and an e48 tune. 400hp. Been no issues at all for 3+ years. This is as big as I'm comfortable with going in terms of reliability.
FYI: The spring performace measuring device is a Boing-ometer.
I thought it was called a wheredidthatgo-ometer
Nice to see some of the differences side by side! Great content and thanks for the mention!
Enjoyable and soothing content over my morning coffee. Paul's voice is angelic 😂😂😂
Vag go to the effort of using forged rods, forged cranks and optimising the rest of the design. Then they fit it with a plastic sump and plastic waterpump housing.
Better than a plastic crank and a forged water pump
@@Deutscheautoparts LOL
So optimising those parts too. Over building something is just as pointless as under building it. If its going to work long enough to see the warranty out, save weight and cost why wouldn't they use it?
@@siraff4461 They are not optimised though, as they regularly fail. The cost cutting isn't worth the adverse reliability reputation that the brand suffers when they continually fail.
Aside from the actual alloy of the cast (which I didn't expect), there doesn't seem to be much of a difference between GTI and R.
Sure, the small differences can do something for long-term use and wear. But IMO nothing seems to crazy to see it as a "must have" upgrade over the GTI.
Very interesting, and great video idea!
Great video man!! This is what real car enthousiasts want to see! VERY informative and exactly the things you want to see when checking the difference, all so clear now thanks again
Now do the 2.5l; VW vs Audi! Great vid!
Love the video and dispelling the theories and rhetoric. Good work Paul. We could do with more people like you in the world. Straight talking, problem solving. And when you don't know, you say so love it!!!😊
The quality of these videos is just so good! And Paul steady keeps me chuckling. Love you DAP 🎉
There’s absolutely no way Paul isn’t the funniest person on earth
I learned a thing today about forging. Thanks for that.
Really loving these more in depth/informational videos!
I was wondering this yesterday. It's like you read my mind, Paul.
This was a great idea for a video and very cool to see! Thank you for your time
I can't tell you how long I've waited for this video. Im so excited 😂😂😂
Great VW content. it's all in the details, and sometimes the interwebs are quick to talk without truth behind it.
Now do the same for the MK8, you have a gti and know w guy with a R. Lol
we needed this video. So might aswel get a GTI and slap a turbo on it. Differences are minor
Engine wise yes but awd and suspension makes it worth it depending on application haha
@@Mad_Rass.mk6gli totally disagree mate. The GTI TCR and Cupra are both faster thant he Golf R around the nurburgring and on a roll which is more liked what you would race someone off on the street. The Cupra and GTI TCR are like 150kg lighter and dont have 12-15 percent drive train loss. I owned a cupra before my RS3 and it never ever once got beat by a GOLF R. Always big gaps. Sure though if you love booting it from traffic lights sure.
I dont hammer any car iv got in first gear or launch them. Its too harsh on the transmission. So i wouldnt ever want a golf r... I think a GTI PP and then slap on a IS38 would be the best bang for your buck.
@@johnboy2436 definitely could agree on that point as well but 1) this video is comparing a base GTI to a base R and 2) Here in North America we unfortunately do not have the tcr, clubsport, any seat/ cupra’s/ skoda’s so that’s also not a fair comparison haha. The only valid one is the PP GTI plenty of people here especially on the east coast are already at the limits of the factory LSD.
@@Mad_Rass.mk6gli Yes but the GTI PP with an IS38 is pretty much the same as a cupra which is faster than a golf R. I dont own one so thats not why im saying this however... it seems like a very good route to go. I would do all the labour myself... probably take a day to get the turbo changed over. Bang for buck you cant go wrong with a GTi PP. I didnt even realize the USA didnt have these models... that sucks.
@@johnboy2436 yeah vw basically told us to lick their taint with that one😂😭 we do however get manual mk8’s tho so I guess we have something.
Would be cool to get a Seat Leon Cupra engine 280-290 or 300 version and see the difference between all 3 engines since they run the same engine aswell
I've had a mk8 GTI over a year now and have bought a handful of parts from DAP and am not sure why I'm not subscribed to this channel. Well... now I am lol
Thank you so much for the purchases we appreciate the support very much.
Sold my GTI over 1 year ago but this kinda stuff is why I stay subscribed. Great breakdown!
That's a really good research, thanks a lot! Awesome stuff!
Thank you for doing this - fun to know about this and I always enjoy your videos.
Now I wonder what would be the difference, if any, with the Macan’s Ea888
i don't have any golf at all but thank you for these informations Paul, 🙂🙂
The quality of metals!
You didnt mention the differences in the piston rings, curious what you observe
Very interesting info here, about the intake cams, I'm wondering if the cam phasers maybe move a few more degrees on the GolfR, maybe but who knows for sure.
Came for the engine stayed for the memes
Epic video guys, thanks!
Very informative. Nice.
According to the VW parts catalog, Gen 3 Golf R connecting rods are the same part number as Gen 1/2 EA888 engines. GTI rods are the same as every other Gen 3.
The actuator for VVT in the intake cam for the R is what I think is the big price difference between the two. I would open those things up and see if they're different? Advancing and retarding the timing of the intake cam is important. IMO I'm just a Volvo guy who's first car was MK 2 GTi and still peeks over the fence at Audi/VW every now and then. Great video, very informative.
The extra duration on the exhaust lobe is to sacrifice a little efficiency at low load for an increase in exhaust gas to the turbo at higher load. In other words it helps response with that larger turbo but will likely use a little more fuel around town.
Excellent video mate. Do it in gens 4 (Evo 4) 245 vs 320 hp
Nooooo not the cast crank on the 1.8t Gen3 😫
Explains the torque limit being 340ftlbs(ish) but the limit on the 2.0ts being like 500 lolw
Really nice video👏🏼
perhaps the duration on the R cams is how they got away with not having to use secondary air due to "EGR" is done on the exhaust cam
Is it possible the Golf R cam is solid billet, as opposed to the pressed on lobes of the GTI cam? What would definitely make it more expensive, as the machining is more complex.
most performance cars use hollow camshafts save weight for rotational mass for reving. I seriously doubt the R engine has billet anything on it.
@eppyz yes, but I was referring to the initial blank. The shaft of a billet cam can be bored. It would certainly be easier and cheaper to machine the lobes and press them on, but then what *is* the difference between the two intake cams, and why is the R cam $800ish more?
Those lines on the con rods are from them sheering the flash off not from the actual forging process. The flash is the material that squishes out of the forging dies at the sides.
I thought it was basically the same engine and that it was mainly electronically limited ... and then of course a difference in turbo and everything around.
All R engines have had some differences internally from the GTI. It typically isn't much just like you see here, but there's always been something on all of the generations.
@@COMotorsports Yeah, I see that now. I just was not aware before 🙂
Awesome video!
I’d love to see the differences between the later mk7.5 R and GTI or mk8 R and GTI… to see if there are internal differences with the GTIs calling for 508 0w20 while the Rs are still using the more traditional 504 0w30
They changed oil pumps for the 0w20 cars.
@@Deutscheautoparts aren't the piston rings different as well?
Great video
Addition: Not all 1.8T's have cast cranks. And even if they do have one (for example early 1.8t's like AEB or AGU), they can take up to like 800-900hp with ease
Fascinating, I'm looking at either a 3rd gen Audi TT roadster which can be mapped to around 300hp or an S3 convertible which has 306bhp out of the box. As the 2l engine is mostly the same as the VW here I'm assuming now that the S3 is the better option as the engine is built to handle 300bhp long term
Now do a A3 vs S3!
Every part is practically interchangeable. The Golf R has “stronger” internals from the factory, but the weird thing is when both the GTI and Golf R’s engine’s are tuned to max capacity (meaning max power before the engine needs to be rebuilt), the capacity that’s reached is basically the same. 600hp/500tq is each engines threshold before needing to be rebuilt. So really, what’s the purpose of the Golf R’s “stronger” internals if it does nothing for the power or longevity of its motor? Lol. It’s just a talking point for Golf R owners lol.
They were designed by German engineers. These people are anal and cannot leave things alone.....
I agree the only reason a golf r over the gti would be for the 4wd not the engine
Warranty claims, and a premium auto gets premium parts.
If you tune it to the max or at all. VW gets to wash thier hands of your issue.
@@billmccormick874
Captain obvious over here 😂
Lol everything about the golf r is a talking point for their owners.
A3 and GTi share the same motor right? Like the S3 and Golf R?
Such a good video!
He’s ready to explode as a global RUclips sensation
I'm happy with my 2019 Golf R. I can't believe GTI's are made in MEXICO LOL! Punta Madre!!!
I hope you can make the same video for the MK8
makes sense why GTI models break more often compared to the R models,, thanks for this very valueable video
Also has to do with the owners
I hardly every see R’s that are being thrashed around and GTIs on the other hand well the opposite😂
I agree I would attribute that more to the people who own them than the engines themselves. Way more GTIs out there and they are more abused.
We love you Paul ❤
we? speak for yourself
I thought they'd be even more identical than seen here just to keep supply chain/parts/assembly etc as simple as possible. I guess the cost of certain GTI parts are cheaper than R but It's surprising that difference merits using more than 1 part.
I thought the same
There is still one thing that i don’t understand- why does the launch control in both cars sound different? Like in the GTI is a continuous sound like “rrrrrrrrr”,while in the R is more like aggressive farting 😂 whoever knows what im talking about will understand me - you can even check sound clips. Why is that happening when the engines are the same?
I know what you mean. I have read that it has something to do with the R having a spark cut based launch control, while the GTI doesn't. The R is also higher RPM launch vs the GTI RPMs I think 4k vs 3200. So you are not wrong the launch is actually different I had to look it up myself I was looking forward to having that R style launch from my MK7 but got a GTI.
thank you for the informative video.
Cool! Now what's the difference between golf R and audi s3 engine 😅
Nothing
I just did pistons on a Audi 2.0TFSI flex Fual
I’ve always wondered the difference in these engines. I knew they were very similar. The Audi flexfual head also does not have Secondary air And a larger injectors for the high flow ethanol. My engine Code is CPMB
Question at what RPM does the variable Exhaust cam change?
great video
Want to see this deep dive comparison onnmk8 evo 4 gti vs R. Pluhhhheassseee. Your videos are addicting
We will if we can get our hands on them
@@Deutscheautoparts I think on MK8 R they improved the internals, compared to GTi.
Maybe one set of springs are stiffer than the other; and the camshaft with the splined lobes are paired with the stiffer springs?
Curious what the weight differences between the cams. Well, maybe for everything else too.
Great video! It it only the USA sold Gti's that have engine's made in Mexico or also the European ones?
Ah yes, the suck, squeeze, bang and blow
Oooooooh! F*ck
Oooooooh!!! F
😂
Sounds familiar🤣🤣🤣
I'm gonna do that to you zoinked
ShopDap doing all GTI owners a big favor here, as well as the entire internet. Now Golf R owners really don’t have that much to say regarding their engine.
Not much, apart that it is a better engine.
Can we get a video just like this comparing the EA888 gen 3a vs 3b? Not sure if the US gets the 3b.
It would be interesting to see the difference if you'd just swap a Golf R exhaust cam onto a GTI. Probably just a very small improvement on turbo lag.
I doubt it. I currently run an IS38 on my MK7 GTI. It’s tuned and running WMI. I hit full boost before 3krpm’s. Would love to see a Golf R’s full boost hit.
Spring K value is easy to calculate using a weights and a ruler…
outstanding video .
Ive got a problem with my mk6 gti I bought in May. The car has been amazing but one day the key was hard to turn, the ignition was stuck and due to my dumbass, I broke the key off in the ignition. I replaced the ignition and the key, the immobilizer wouldnt let me start the car. I then replaced the guts of the ignition and key with the originals, the car started but this is where my issue starts.
When I put it into reverse or drive the dsg sounds like its slipping or whining and then it catches with a massive clunk. I ran the codes and it said that solenoid N216 had a short/open. I replaced that solenoid and the code went away, I continue to have the same issue though. I bought a ODB11 and tried doing the transmission tolerances. I finally got it to stop making the noise and went for a ride without any issues, as soon as I got home and put it in park - it started to do it again.
Do I need to purchase a Rosstech device so I can do clutch adaptations? ODB11 wont allow me to run either adaptations, only tolerances. The DSG worked perfect for the drive and worked perfect previous to the ignition problem, would this correlate?
I dont have anyone or any "Car friends" so Im stuck learning and doing everything myself. I have always had manual vehicles and this is my first auto....and Im pretty unhappy about this. I need help and would appreciate any advice or tips! Thanks in advance.
Good thing the valve wasn't sodium filled. Sodium spontaneously ignites upon contact with water or humid air.
What would this do for my regular Golf. If I were to do any mods the 1st thing I'd want is a better intercooler and even add an oil cooler to compensate for the extra heat my engine would likely make doing this stuff to it.
How long are 2017 R engines good for if well maintenaned? Have a 80k miles one and wondering how much further reliable motoring I have. Dsg 7 spd
Keep servicing on time
What are the metal composition differences between petrol and diesel engines? Or is this a petrol engine only channel. Tear part a diesel pd190 engine for all your subscribers.
Yes, more diesel content!!!
Can you say Golf R/TTS in the future? Thanks! Phil
If the difference is only ~80hp, there is no need for drastically different internals strength wise.
Good information
4:39 "You want this head?"
Paul, amazing information!!! When you do these, you need to be wearing a lab coat
I think the golf R engine also has thicker thrust washers
15:21 ayoooo 😂
If you want to compare two valve springs to see which is stronger, stack them end to end and put the pair on a vice and squeeze them against one another. The spring that compresses more is the weaker spring.
You’re welcome.
If the cutout in the R pistons is bigger to enable a lower compression ratio does this make the engine capacity slightly larger?
Kid across street has a golf tdi and just got a newer type r.
How does the engine in the A4 TFSI Quattro compare? It's IS20 and 252hp.. sort of an interesting between engine.. is it more Golf R or more GTi 😅
I have a 2016 one 😅
It’s probably only tuned differently from the factory. Kinda like a “stage 1/2”
The engine in the Urus and Audi RSQ8 are identical but the urus generates about 40 more Hp. The only difference is one is tuned by Audi and the other Lamborghini
My understanding is the 1.8t is also the same it just has a different bore/stroke
Pretty much unless were talking the old 5valve 1.8neverloose
Thanks 😊👍👍👍
I want to buy something from SHOPDAP but I'm afraid Paul might answer the phone. What protections have been put in place to protect consumers?
Don’t worry it’s pretty rare
Are the engine mounts the same on MK8 GTI and R?
What is the third engine in comparision of pistons and crank shaft? Because I could not understand this "one eighteen"? :)
1.8t
@@Deutscheautoparts ah, thanks 😁
I wonder if there is a difference between the GTI engine and a A3 engine, one would assume they would be the same.
AXX and BWA engines for example are the same in GTI and A3 ... 2.0T FSI with 200hp. To be more specific both AXX and BWA are found in both GTI and A3.
I want this for MK8 🙂
Can you do one of these videos but only on a 1.4 tsi 140hp and compare it to the gti?
Same same
What’s the difference between EA888 gen 3 and evo 4?