How Does WONG Remember PETER PARKER in She-Hulk?
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- Опубликовано: 4 сен 2022
- In the latest episode of She-Hulk: Attorney At Law Wong gets himself into a bit of legal trouble, then outright refuses to use another memory spell. This seems like a MAJOR slip of the tongue. How does Wong remember the forgetting spell? is he the last person who remembers that Peter Parker is Spider-Man, or that peter parker is at all? We explain.
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Written and Edited by Colton Ogburn ( / @coltonhere )
Hosted by Ryan Arey ( / ryanarey )
#Wong #SheHUlk #SpiderMan
In She-Hulk Attorney At Law Episode 3 we got the long awaited appearance of The Sorcerer Supreme, Wong. [clip, Peter “I thought you were Sorcerer Supreme?” - Strange “he got it on a technicality.”]
In this episode of She-Hulk we think we may have gotten our first clue that the “Forget Peter Parker” spell is beginning to break. [clip, cracking purple sky]
And later we’re going to discuss the interdimensional reason that Wong mentioned the spell so casually when talkin g to She-Hulk.
Now the “forget Peter Parker” spell, also known as the Runes of Kof-Kol. [clip, oh it’s just a standard spell of forgetting.]
This spell resulted in not only everyone forgetting Peter Parker is Spider-Man. But forgetting who Peter Parker is PERIOD.
Everyone, including Happy Hogan, Doctor Strange, Ned Leeds, and MJ have no memory that Peter Parker ever existed. [clip, Strange explaining spell]
When Wong meets with She-Hulk regarding him breaking Emil Blonsky’s Abomination out of prison. Wong says this- [clip, Wong saying he’s not erasing everyone's memories again.]
This scene has opened a floodgate of questions such as-
How does Wong know that this spell ever took place? Does Wong remember Peter Parker? And what does Wong mean when he says the spell is very messy? [clip, Wong “very messy believe me.”]
We’ve discussed before on the channel how exactly this spell may work. [b-roll of thumbnail.] Does it erase all physical evidence of Peter Parker from existence? Such as photographs, drivers license, passport, Daily Bugle newscasts, the Avengers records, Peter’s name and picture in his school yearbook, social security number, social media accounts- [clip, “ALRIGHT!” Adam Sandler from Big Daddy.]
And if those things weren’t physically erased from history and still exist. Then what happens when people see those things? Does the spell make them ignore their existence and look away?
What would happen if Peter confronted someone like Happy, Ned, or MJ trying to make them remember who he is? [clip, Cap “you know me” - Bucky “No I don’t!”]
Now with Wong being the Sorcerer Supreme, perhaps he’s impervious to any spells cast by his underlings.
Doug: Oh just like how I’m impervious to all of your spells.
Ryan: Do you remember the 2019 Video Store Christmas party?
Doug: What Christmas party?
Ryan: Exactly.
Another possibility is a popular internet theory that we’ve traced back to Reddit user jrfoster01 (J - R - Foster - zero - one.)
The theory claims that when Wong said- [clip, Wong telling Strange to leave him out of it.]
That Strange took this to heart and made sure to exclude Wong from his first spell making the world forget Peter Parker is Spider-Man. [clip, Strange casting the first spell.]
When Strange is casting that spell we see Peter add some last minute exceptions. [clip, Peter wanting to include exceptions.]
Peter mentions MJ, Ned, Aunt May, and Happy Hogan as people he wants to exclude from the spell and remember that he’s Spider-Man.
After these 4 alterations were made mid-casting, the spell goes haywire. [clip, spell going wrong.]
Those 4 alterations lead to the spell breaking and Peter yelling out a 5th alteration. [clip, Peter yelling that everyone who knew he was Spider-Man before should still remember he’s Spider-Man.]
Once Strange shuts down the spell he says [clip, you changed my spell 6 times.]
To which Peter replies [clip, Peter “5 times.”] 
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Strange told Wong about erasing memories of a full moon party in No Way Home, so there are various ways Wong could know that erasing memories is messy. He never claimed to know who Peter Parker is.
Came here to say this.
@@bencody4120 Seconded
Exactly
Beat us to it lol
And wong said he wasn't doing again himself in the singler not we've I'm so I believe he is referring to another instance
I think you're overthinking it. They said that they used that spell many times before. Wong is probably refering to one or each of those previous instances.
SCAMMERS DONT RESPOND
Exactly what I was thinking.
And the fact this is before no way home
@@wilmaso not necessarily, it could be, but probably not. And it doesn't have to be for this to still make sense.
That makes no sense at all to include it into the she hulk series. They had to find a way to connect them which is why Wong is in the movie lol
Short answer: He didn't. He might remember that it had something to do with spiderman, but he doesn't remember Peter Parker.
Who?!
@@Under_Sky_Third_Gaia Wong
Who is this Peter? Is he related to may parker?
I’m not sure why all the theory accounts are going wild over this, it’s common sense. Wong never mentions Peter Parker or even insinuates he knows him.
No, if you remember in the movie they actually mentioned a previous use of the memory spell, the Spider Man movie isnt the only time was used.
That scene of Strange telling Peter "we'll all forget you" and the way he choked up, that whole scene hits me square in the feels every single time 😭
Couple of points here, Wong has used the spell several times before (and for supposedly far less), the idea that a sorcerer might be able to wipe people's memory is not so outlandish that one might not be able to guess at such a thing even without knowing about the specific spell required, if he does remember that the spell was used, there is nothing to contradict that in the spell anyway, the spell has never been said to wipe the memory of its use from people's minds, and rather the opposite is implied when it is first suggested to be used. Whether Strange added Wong to the original spell or not is utterly irrelevant as the final spell had no exceptions for anybody.
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I think Dr strange and Wong remember Spider-Man, not Peter Parker, everyone remembers Spider-Man, but no one knows Peter Parker
Parker who?!
That's what I've been thinking this whole time.
What's up with Dr. Strange saying something like "nice knowing you, Peter"?
Who’s Peter Parker?
Who?
He knows Spider-Man, and that Strange wanted to use a spell to help everyone forget the boy's identity.
He also knows that the first spell went haywire and caused a lot of commotion with Spider-Man.
So I think it's less he remembers Peter and more the fact that both he and Strange would be aware that the spell was tied to Spider-Man's identity and how messy that was (the multiversal villains). But him mentioning was perhaps more of the fact that someone might assume a Sorcerer can wipe people's minds.
He's been made aware of a lot of secret magic since becoming Sorcerer Supreme, so maybe the more dangerous stuff is just easier to think of than the commonsense stuff right now.
He's not talking about Peter. They mentioned they used that spell at a party prior to no way home
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This isn't a mystery. Wong and Strange both know the spell was cast and that it removed all memories of someone. They have the mminimum amount of memory alterations required to remove Parker. They might even know that they used to know who spider-man is and that is who the spell removed. Done.
I don't know why they are trying to make this so complicated! Like you said, it's simple. They removed memories of Peter, not casting the spell
Or strange casted a spell where he and wong know him still cause he can make the spell anyway he wanted too
I don't believe Wong is talking about The spell that made them forget Peter but talking about another time the spell was used. Wong warned Strange about the spell, likely with some past experience with it so... his comments are not refering to Parker/Spiderman but to a long lost out of control rager at Kamar Taj. Maybe??
Strange also says "we've used it for a lot less"
i agree.
My guess, Wong has made a lot of mistakes over the years and has fixed it by erasing everyone's memories of the events . It doesn't appear that He's well suited to being the Sorcerer Supreme .
isn't
Spot on
I'm just watching video of New Rockstars of the same concept 😂
DUDE I FELT THE SAME
I FELT IT WAS NEW ROCKSTARS
Same 😂
Me too
I think it's the simplest explanation. Wong already knew about the spell when Strange brings it up.
So he likely already knows how "messy" the spell is from prior personal experience and/or the spell's history.
No reason to think anything else is going on really.
My theory: we are just assuming Wong is talking about the Peter spell. Although the argument is strong that he would, he could be talking about a different spell that we havent been told of yet. We know they've used it more than once, like the midnight party or whatever it was that Strange mentioned. Maybe they've used it several times and the one Wong is talking about was also messy. It could be something like making everyone forget about how an event from another movie went down or a tease of something we havent seen yet
Exactly! Specially since Wong is referring as he was the one who made the spell, but Strange was the one involved in the spell for Spider-Man.
Strange literally told Wong that they erased a full moon party.
@@karlaa1Dforever yeah they mentioned they had used that spell at a party prior to no way home
yup
That was my thought as well -- and adds fuel to Mordo's "too many Sorcerers" credo; even Wong was cavalier enough to risk his "reality" by using the Forget spell.
The only positive, I suppose, is that Wong seems to have learned his lesson the first time. Unlike the previous Sorcerer Supreme...
He’s trying to flex, and impress her with his magical capabilities.
He doesn't, he remembers the incident with spiderman
What if Wong doesn’t remember Peter Parker, and he was just referring to the spell in general and we’re all reading way too far into it?
I must confess, my first thought when he mentioned the memory erasing was whatever event he and Strange seemed to be referencing when they had used the spell before, Wong didn't remember what happened, he just knows it happened and it gave off the vibes like Strange had just had a party or something.
Yeah, sounds like Strange was salty about losing Sorcerer Supreme to Wong, so he threw a big party to spite him, and didn't even let Wong remember the day.
Full moon party at Kamar-taj.
In the beginning of Dr. Strange 2, Wong says he used the memory wipe spell at a party back in the day and that it’s too dangerous.
Ryan I gotta say, I love your videos and how adamant you are in trying to give a coherent explanation of what I basically just dismissed as lazy writing trying to caricature a character of the MCU for comedic purposes with very poor results.
He didn't remember Peter. He just remembered the spell being cast. Not really a mystery.
He spoke about another case! He is referring it to himself,so he clearly means another time when HE did it not Strange.
It is a mystery. Deal with it
@@mavvynne444 It isnt. Dont need to Deal with it 😉
He doesn’t remember that party though haha
Honestly, I think you're overthinking it. It was a "Forget Peter Parker" spell. Not a "Forget all that magic calamity on the island that was undoubtedly in the news" spell. Neither Wong nor Strange have mentioned Peter's name yet since that spell was cast. Wong has only referenced the spell itself.
Maybe he was talking about the time he did it at a party???
I think the problem might be the timeline itself. I believe She-Hulk takes place before “No Way Home”. It takes place at the same time as Shang-Chi, and we know this because of Wongs fight with the Abomination. But, this also opens up a different issue. The fact that at the end with Wong, Captain Marvel and Bruce looking over the Rings, Bruce’s arm is still messed up…yet it’s fixed in She-Hulk as he said he used her blood to help him heal (before the events of Shang-Chi and the fight).
I agree completely with the first part of this, that She Hulk takes place before NWH. But I'm not sure the Hulk thing is an issue. His arm was in a sling in the Shang-Chi post credits scene but if yoi look closely he has the Hulk-controlling device that we see in She-Hulk. So it makes sense for that post credit scene to take place a little before the beginning of She-Hulk when she gets her powers and Bruce turns back into Smart Hulk, right?
The rumors of Zendaya’s MJ returning is true but Jacob returning as Ned is not confirmed yet. A Sony chairman said that Tom , Zendaya, and Jon watts are returning for the next trilogy. I’m glad they coming back cause that ending wasn’t it, everybody forgetting him🤦🏾♂️
I want MJ to remember him and reunite with Peter but it might not happen in Spider-Man 4 but if it does I’m pretty sure the MCU will make it make sense
I feel like MJ forgetting him opens the door for things like introducing Gwen and/or Felicia. Maybe he's tempted to let her go with other options presenting themselves then eventually realizing he belongs with MJ.
@@TheRealAlpha2 yea he might move on to a different love interest like Gwen or black cat but he will eventually end up back with Mj either way. MJ is basically his endgame
I believe Jon Watts has stepped away from the project.
@@HaloTube no not no more lol. Sony wants him back and he stepped down from fantastic four so I mean it’s looking like he is gonna keep directing Spider-Man
They’re treating Wong much like they did Coulson at the start of Phase 1. The lovable connective tissue between the movies..
I wouldn’t be surprised if we see Wong get killed by Kang, not only reverting the title of Sorcerer Supreme back to Dr. Strange, but also establishing Kang as a formidable threat, and angering all those who interacted with Wong over the last several years.
one interesting way of looking at the evidence left behind by the forgetting spell can be seen in a mechanic in dnd. in dnd there is a spell of invisibility that literally changes physical reality, making a person invisible. however, there is also a psychic variation of the spell which does not change reality at all but rather affects the minds of all people who look at the 'invisible' person. it is more like a spell of 'not-paying-attention.' when we see the altered photos and such it may be that we, the audience, are seeing what the characters are seeing but that the actual photos, records, etc are not actually physically altered. another interesting aspect of this is that there is an ability or spell called "true seeing," which allows the user to see all things as they really are. such an ability would be able to see the pictures and such in their real form, and it even reveals 'proper' invisibility as it is treated as a sort of illusion. both of these mechanics, psychic invisibility and true sight, could help make sense of this very messy setup, especially as we are dealing with people's minds (what they know or do not) rather than actual reality. trying to delete all knowledge of peter parker being spiderman from physical records would be problematic to say the least--even WITH the reality stone or chaos magic and even more so when done across multiple universes.
The psychic invisibility spell you described seems to work in the same way as antimemes in the world of SCP Foundation: you're seeing it, but every passing second you are incapable realizing the fact that you are seeing it; and as soon as you look away, it's like it was never there at all.
now that i think about it, there was a character who had a similar 'ability' in deadpool comics. anyone who spoke with her instantly forgot who she was right after; i think even to the extent of forgetting that she existed. being in-marvel context, that would make it the best precedent of all.
@@ashenbreese The human mind is flexible and autonomous. We forget little things and then invent new memories to fill in the blanks all the time. Not too difficult to imagine this happening on an entire human being, consistently, by everyone.
When Strange used a forgetful spell, Wong did tell him to leave him out it. Even if he used it twice. That might explain plenty 🤔
The second spell had no other layers, just the simple _Forget_ spell. Strange's hands were already full trying to hold reality together at the time.
Exactly!
Wong needs to know these things simply because he's the Sorcerer Supreme.
About the spell, I noticed that the spell start to shake and being out of control exactly when Strange start to be annoyed by Peter.
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Thanks for the information
We never talk about how the spell affected only the past. Peter is still a person now. He can make new memories with people he meets after the spell.
The first forgetting spell Strange tried to cast didn’t get cast because it became too chaotic, so even if he had planned on excluding Wong from forgetting it doesn’t matter because that spell was never cast. The spell he cast at the end made everyone completely forget about Peter Parker.
Wong has no idea who Parker is, but he's used the spell himself to erase someone else...even from us. So he is familiar with how it all works, just not because of Spider-Man.
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Hey man I have a whole new appreciation for your videos I made my first one last week an it’s much harder then you make it look I plan to upload every Saturday
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I think the certain instance of the memory spell he's talking about was referenced in Dr. Strange: MoM where they used that same spell to wipe the memory of some party they had
Technically I think that party is first referenced in no way home.
Or Wong remembers that a memory spell was used but not on whom due to the spell.
I like how she just stops pretending to drive when she talks to the audience
New rockstars uploaded a similar video 27 minutes ago 10 minutes before this one
What a coincidence
What difference would it make whether Wong remembered that particular use of the spell? He was obviously already aware of the spell and warned Strange in similar terms before Strange used it in Spider-Man. What he said in She-Hulk falls directly in accord with that, even if they had never ended up casting the spell at the end of Spider-Man. It also in no way implies he remembers Peter.
The first spell doctor Strange cast was to forget that Peter Parker was spiderman and the second one was to forget who Peter parker is
Dr Strange and Wong remember in Multiverse of Madness
Thanks to the new post-credit scene we see how videos and photos have been 'altered' to have things obscure Peter's face, but I still think Stark technology isn't affected. EDITH was offline during No Way Home, and we don't know what happened to Karen. However, we don't know how this would impact characters who are dead now, like Aunt May or Tony Stark. I mean if the spell impacts anyone living or dead that knew who Peter was, wouldn't this also undo how Tony figured out the solution to time travel in "Endgame?" Magic always finds a way to make things worse.
Not quite. The spell erased Spider-Man's identity, but not his bond with Tony. In general Tony was still a father figure for the young Spider-Man, despite to who's under that suit. And that was the solution to the time travel, Tony still wanted to save the boy, only thanks to the spell didn't know his name nor face behind the mask.
Wait I just noticed he says, “ I will not erase memories again” he must have performed the spell too, and he’s not talking about Strange’s spell for forgetting Peter.
I think he's talking about both. His initial reaction to Strange is to hate the idea. He likely hates the spell because he knows it was used before and probably also turned out badly. Either way he's going to tell people never to use that particular spell.
Like How Steven hesitaed when he said Everyone that knew and loved him would forget him
I personally thought Wong was reffering to when he and a lot of people had their memory erased in a party at kamar taj
I believe Wong and strange remember doing the spell and Spider-Man, they simply don’t recall who they erased from memory, The spell didn’t erase their memory of enacting the spell, just Peter Parker, which is why he and dr strange mention doing the spell and Spider-Man, but not Peter Parker.
oh I think they actually do know what they erased: Spider-Man's identity, that's it, they know why they can't remember, they know they wiped one of their allies' real name and face
Wong doesn't remember Peter, he just knows the spells were cast
Thanks for the Deadpool bit with "McAvoy or Stewart?" I didn't catch that in the movie.
Come on man, they did the spell before Peter Parker
Err … he didn’t say Peter Parker . He has used the spell before 🤷🏿
Ye,he could be just talking about scenario,not the Peter Parker side,or just another scenario before that lol
@@darthyoda8170 or when strange said to Wong with Spider-Man about the full moon party
@@ked49 ye
Bad writing is how wong remembers Peter Parker.
it's not bad writing. it's simple. he remember Spiderman but not Peter.
@@Magdalena8008s just want to blame the writers for how bad the show is. Imo. I don't really like it. Feel like the writing is being phone in.
I swear i just saw a New Rockstar's video on this exact thing, my memory is fuzzy =]
Wong said to Dr Strange... don't involve me.
Maybe Strange took Wong's last words on this matter literally: Just leave me out of this. Thus leaving him out of the spell and therefore Wong still knows.
Sorry but you are starting to write the show for them.
What if : they made a mistake because the writers are not paying attention and they are careless.
It’s a fourth wall break without looking into the camera.
“Leave me out of it.” May have had multiple meanings
He doesn't remember Peter Parker. Which was told to us in Multiverse of Madness.
He remembers that a memory spell was done but not the exact details of it.
They did a version of that spell before and they did remember that spell as well
Wong says “I’m not erasing everyone’s memory again.” Means he used it himself at some point and has nothing to the one used by Steven Strange!
He doesn't mention anyone's names. They remember Spiderman, They don't remember that Peter Parker is Spiderman.
Wong left when strange started the spell.. and stepped outside of earth's realm.
He's done his memory spell, another time
Or Wong knows about other memory wipes that we don't know about and is referring to one of those.
this video is like new rockstars in thier channel they posted it recintlly
Wong wasn't takling about the spell Stange did for Peter... it's not the first time they've used it!
Wong went to a different dimension at the beginning
The 4th wall break in the car seems like 2 different types of break. 1st jennifer walters is talking to us about Wong, not really knowing who he is, while driving the car, then she turns and its as if Tatiana Maslany starts talking to us about Wong. It is subtle, but i think it was a different level. I think they will lean heavily into her 4th wall breaking abilities during the show since it featured in the comics.
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@@contactloatedcyberoninstag8489 whats that?
I need more Wong!
There’s also the line where Strange says “We’ve used it for smaller things” or something like that
During MOM they mention they've done it before for far less. Very explicitly. It blows my mind that this is even a conversation
Writers for She-Hulk didn’t get to see Spider-Man and were only given a couple plot points. We’ve seen this before between the movies and shows.
I'm convinced that Wrong is a Skrull
Wong: “leave me out of this…☹️”
Also Wong: *the only one who remembers Peter*
He would know that he erased peoples memories for Spider-Man not Peter Parker simple
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The spell makes you forget about spiderman identity, not the spell…
He would remember the spell, just not on what occasion he used it.
Wong could be talking to us through her fourth wall.
He might not be pertaining to Peter Parker's memory spell, but a previous spell Strange mentioned (or one Wong did himself, that's why he knows it's messy) before Wong ported out (Snowed-in Icy Sanctum scene, when Peter asked Strange for help).
Wong are sorcerer supreme, he may find his memory being tempered and restored it and finally remember peter parker.
He is talking about the party he erased people's memories
I think he is refering to the full moon party of kamartaj… that is not the only time they ‘ve used that spell
The fourth wall is talking to The Watcher who knows everything
Could also be talking about the party that Strange mentioned before casting the spell for Peter
The fact that everyone forgot the Wong already knew about the spell and HE was the one who told Strange that it was a dangerous spell in No Way Home 🤦🏾♂️
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Wong is the sorcerer supreme he has to know Peter still
Benedict Wong is EPICNESS!!! Love him as Wong :)
I figured Wong knew about how messy the spell was from previous accounts like the one mentioned by Strange or something from the past. Or Strange explained to Wong what happened during No Way Home. Because who would not notice the sky tearing apart? It seems like a pretty big thing to not notice. Unless strange made another spell to make everyone forget about the villains fighting on the statue of liberty and sky tearing apart.
He could've been referring to a different scenario
Maybe being sorcerer supreme he can be protected in some way from certain memory spells
Before Wong leaves Dr. Strange and Peter in the Sanctum Sanctorum, he basically gives Strange permission to use the spell by saying “Just leave me out of this”. So Dr. Strange left him out of the spell like he was told!
I definitely would say that when Wong left he informed Strange as Sorcerer Supreme to leave him out the spell.
They probably remember using that spell, but can't remember for who.
Wong said he wouldn't erase anyone's memories again but we all know it was Dr Strange who cast the spell in No Way Home. So, possibly Wong once used this spell in a different occasion before No Way Home. That's why he warned Strange not to use it.
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He's probably referring to the FULL MOON PARTY - mentioned in Spider-Man.
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He never eluded to knowing Peter Parker. He doesn't like the forgetting spell at all like he said no way home.
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In the No Way Home, Dr. Stange says" We've used it for a lot less, do you remember the full moon party at Kamar Taj" To which Wong replies "No" and Strange says "exactly". Also, Wong as the Sorcerer Supreme wouldn't have immunity from spells because he didn't with the Scarlet Witch
I've kinda pictured her 4th wall breaks as more of her cutting in on her own story similar to the emperors new groove.
They don’t remember Spider-Man’s identity. They still know they preformed the spell.